I had a lot to cheat, blew it out in every seat, took it down and you leave, rather you
leave, then you go back out on me, don't throw no daggers at me, you gotta shoot them at me,
you know my dad's supreme, I been in the houses weed, movin' that rabbit's feet, like it's
a track we mean, we got a time to stay, we got a time to stay, yeah
you on the way with the way, stacks in my pouch, you know it, jump at the house, you come with two
when it's late, know the brown one is my fag, then my bro gon' walk you out, step by step,
watch yourself, clean this, got anything you might've left, I couldn't do none of this by myself,
with my viola, day in the tub, I get you fit in the boots of your book, I gave you the juice,
you rather give up, I tried to choose you as a little girl, know what to do, you outta me,
comment denominator, we was destined to dominate, just got a couple of vibrations for the simulation,
got a real bag, just got a real bag, just got a real bag, just got a real bag, just got a real bag,
yeah my n***a so much, you know we doin' down, now I'm pretty straight, if I f***in' this town,
I'd be in the truck, n***a so much, I thought you know we had it, sit it all around,
back, back, no wonder what it is, that could be around today
I'd be in the truck, n***a so much, you know we doin' down, now I'm pretty straight,
I got it, yeah I got it, yeah I got it, yeah I got it, yeah I got it, yeah I got it, yeah I got it,
yeah oh yeah, woo I got it, woo I got it, woo I got it, yeah I got it,Rapunzel,
Can't if I fucked up this time today
It's the one I wanna know that can't be around today
Are we doin' one more, y'all?
How long do we do this at?
All right, we're doin' one more, we're gonna get to it
Appreciate y'all for poppin' out tonight
Have some cool stuff planned
We're gonna get straight to it
But before we do, we're gonna play one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
We're doin' one more song
This is my name, Charles Biggie, my mother's a jay, I make you race, I shoot my mother and I get a jay,
He sellin' one of my pleasant matches, he sellin' a dress, even for me, I eat a flesh,
a piece of pie, put it in now, please stay in your pocket hard,
All right y'all I appreciate you so much for coming to the fucking space hopefully
Thry guy get in here, can we tag thry guy in the comment section tell him to get in here
Tag thry guy at. The bottom right hand corner tell him to get off his ass
his ass he's laying down he just ate three bowls of rice and mixed and mixed
greens and he's acting all sleepy tag him in the bottom right hand corner get his
ass in here look I appreciate y'all so much for coming to this space tonight
hopefully everybody had a great day as usual if you want to come up on stage
click that button bottom left hand corner if you want to do me a massive favor send
seven million dollars in ETH to leap. ETH just kidding look click that button the
bottom right hand corner show it some love likes comments retweets the best
way to support the space and yeah we're gonna get into it today so we're gonna
do this is completely not planned impromptu it just kind of happened five
minutes before the space I was talking to Big God and I was like fuck it let's just
run an interview like let's just do it like you just sold out the project like
let's run an interview let's talk about it let's see what's going on I think it's
relevant in the space it's a big thing that happened today and I've done an
interview in a long time I really that's always kind of the thing that I
like doing the most interviews and I just haven't done it in a minute so we're
gonna run it today he's gonna be here in like 30 minutes 45 minutes something like
that they got some shit they need to sort out and then we're gonna run it so
appreciate y'all for being here as usual we're gonna do a little traffic
report little weather report see what's going on in the crypto sphere
also a lot of shit happening today a lot to unpack a lot to discuss oh for
one big announcement huge announcement massive immaculate astronomical
metaphysical physical literal but metaphorical announcement I'm actually
getting married I'm getting married next week so I'm actually getting married
leaps off the market leap is off the mark I'm actually being married I'm
marrying I'm marrying the game we're married to the fucking game and we're
not leaving look we're gonna get to it here we're gonna get to it it's been a
minute since I told everyone I was getting married and then made the same
stupid cliche joke that I was married to the game I've probably made this joke
a million times it's not that funny anymore we got to come up with some new
stuff we're down astronomical as OG would say all right let's go to a let's
see what's going on here coin market cap also who's gonna dethrone coin
market cap we just gave coin market cap a monopoly they were just like fuck it
that you just own the industry you decide what's listed you decide what's not
that's ridiculous anyway Bitcoin up 1.2% aetherium up 1.4% BMB down 0.3% I
don't care about any of this stuff we're gonna move on to open C we're gonna move
on to open C and let's see here also I saw some price targets today there was a
tweet that I saw and people had a price target on ETH of $43,000 and I don't know
what the fuck they're smoking but I hope that it goes to 43,000 oh yeah what
the hell dude I go to open C front page and I don't know if anybody knows Sarah
script he's actually in the room right now she's in her space every single
night so you featured on the front page right at the top that's super
cool I didn't even see this I haven't been on open C today so shout out to
you Sarah that's awesome okay so we're gonna move to the next thing here
reddit rabbits in reddit collectible avatar what is this the hell is this
actually fuck I kind of want to see Sarah's collection let me go I want to
go look at this let's see what it is here holy script is that like a pun on
unholy shit I'm probably not right I'm way off base with that let's see here
says holy script is celebration of the power of the written word Sarah found
her voice through learning the art of calligraphy over nine years ago and she
believes in the importance of slowing down and disconnecting from
technology while we're still able holy implies that the word themselves are
sacred even if they are silly or profane because they have meaning to the
reader Pepe to the moon all right not really sure about that last sentence
but the rest I do dig let's see here oh it's an open edition it's an open
edition yo only 30 are minted yo you MFers need to go mint this shit right now
run that shit up to a hundred they're literally point oh one eight apiece
don't mint some of that support the people that support you yes there has
been in our space every fucking night from beginning to end for literally like
eight months that's actually crazy so congrats to you Sarah that's super
cool I'm gonna have them in a couple of these after the space oh there's a video
to oh there's like a whole bio thing like I can't read all this right now but
it's on the front page of open see y'all can go check it out all right I'm gonna
go to the to the trending stuff here let's see what's going on on the
front page okay so reddit rabbits actually there I like the rabbits
branding it's like a they have games they have this they have that's a
whole thing I don't know if y'all seen it before it looks like it's some sort
of collaboration with reddit 1.8 matic apiece so how much is that what $2
these things are $2 apiece what okay what else here dude do or Dar cells are
down to 0.05 I remember selling like five do or Dar cells for over two
eth apiece at one point that's crazy the hell happened or maybe they were like
1.8 the piece there's there's something around that area this is long as last
year a long time ago the yay Oh NFT is this the one that Frank did the space
with their point six eat the piece 20% unique owners what the hell's up with
this one okay saved souls what is this I swear I don't know what any of these
collections are at this point I'm happy to see knock amigos trending because it's
the only one that I know clone acts 3.2 low pudgies around 0.5 kid called
beast trending again haven't seen kick off he's trending in a minute so let's
see what else yeah that's about it so some new collections Oh Oh pepins above
0.7 dude Jack Butcher is honestly the goat they Jack Butcher honestly the
goat so mad props to him all right we're gonna go to magic eat in here and
then we're gonna kill like 30 minutes 45 minutes and then big God will jump in
and we'll kind of go into the AMA here so let's see holy fuck mad lads are at
90 soul Jesus Christ yo Solana NFTs are pumping right now what the hell
Plano is at 60 it's pretty interesting okay all right all right let's get to it if
you want to come up on stage again click that request button I'm trying to see
some new faces today I have to see NB and OG one more time I'm gonna go nuts
speaking of which NB and OG are actually requesting so I'm bringing them up here
in a second yo leapy leap all right I can't do this anymore all right we're
gonna go over to the ordinals marketplace the ordinals marketplace
here let's see okay there's a big it's the same yo yo leap if you you were
talking about you're talking about I mean this is do you see what I'm
struggling with here like they can't even take turns just jump in and at the
same time what's happening that was crazy and be if you look at the top
but like the truth about you came to light man okay all right this I just
don't even know why I do this anymore listen every time I open the space I
regret it okay um Jesus Christ I'm just gonna say I'm just gonna put it out
there I was definitely drunk when that interview happened I'm just gonna say it
I didn't know what was going on I didn't consent to this being released I
didn't even know it was gonna be put on Twitter I guess crazy right I was
definitely four or five drinks in and eating that I hadn't eaten anything yeah
straight cap it bro we had you good no that's not an empty stomach I the
Miller lights and the he was 18 tequila shots I back to business oh gee we went
on the tangent now back to business leap I have not paid attention to
crypto Twitter all day what are you interviewing bit God about what happened
I swear to God these Boca Raton people they live under a fucking rock I was
watching bachelor and I was on the yeah I know you were on the beat I was
watching bachelor and paradise last night by the way great show the producers on
that show are actually ruthless they do everything in their power to instigate
and make the contestants look as bad as possible and I fucking love it one of
the one of the main contestants I can't remember their name but they're
like I'm like super used to like paradise and like living on the beach
and from Boca Raton and I and I said has nb been pronouncing his hometown
wrong this entire time no it's return return return potato potato it's you
know it doesn't really change it but yeah there is it's crazy how many because
even catfish I was telling you about had an episode like so many people like
somehow you know who else is from here Ariana Grande her hurt she's yeah she's
here every like every holiday basically cuz her grandparents still live here
Neville for my car send me a DM Victoria okay here's the thing I am a
professional an intellectual a scholar I'm gonna be conducting an interview what
with one of the most up-and-coming brightest big gods on the planet today
and we got to keep a professional for the VCs and the constituents in the
audience so look I need everybody to be on their best behavior I'm looking at
UNB I'm looking at you OG we got to be on our best behavior today we're gonna
do a killer interview it's gonna be awesome this is one of the hottest topics
in the space and we're gonna cover it and we're gonna crush it so we're gonna
go to the hands I'll see a couple more people requesting I'm gonna bring some
people up and also shout out to Chris Chris in the audience he helped me do
a video earlier today that I think I'm gonna post later today as well so we
got some cool content leap let me get like one one crazy thing out all right
you ready you said you're married to the game bro more like married to cert
gang baby sir okay all right I literally just okay I'm gonna repeat what I said
before we're doing an interview today it's gonna be great we're gonna crush
it I need everybody to be on their best behavior we're going by the hands we're
gonna do awesome it's gonna be great now what that means is we're not gonna
scream Cirque gang I think we just get it out of our system it already happened
we the joke is over we've been making the joke for five days it's done no more
cert gang no more hoodie gang I don't however you want to call it we're done
we're going to nb nb what's up yeah leap I think since we have some time and
you're about to do a big interview you should do a trial interview with Sarah
and find out more about holy script see that's a great idea that is an
amazing I'll Sarah's welcome to talk about it for a few minutes but I need
a fucking monologue I need to get my chops moving because I haven't done an
interview in a while so that being said we're gonna throw it over to Sarah
Sarah congrats on being featured on the front page of open see what's going on
thank you so much and thank you for this shout out that was really kind I'm
a big fan and a big fan of this space obviously I I listen for an hour like
actively and then I just it just lulls me to sleep I love like waking up in
the middle like at 1 a.m. and like hearing something crazy anyway I had like
two corrections corners and I won't take up too much time one is it's a
generative open edition so all the pieces are different and then two it
doesn't meant until tomorrow so you've got some time but yeah thank you so
much for having me up it's crazy to see something like calligraphy on the
front page and it makes me so happy and hopefully more calligraphers will
we'll see it and feel comfortable joining in yeah no that's awesome I was wondering
I was like how is this only like this is so good like how is it only 30 so it's
minting tomorrow everybody go support Sarah and yeah I think I don't know
anybody else that's doing I mean I'm sure there's other people but you're the
only person I know doing calligraphy within the space I think that's just
such an interesting art form and something that at least personally I
don't see way too much up and it's something that also takes so much
so yeah I get I think Danny Cole was the first one to do shout out to Danny Cole
he's awesome I remember seeing his kind of generative
open edition and when I saw that I was like this is this is sick like open
editions should be generative this is just such a great way to to use this
medium so I fucking love that that it's generative as well I'll be minting a
couple to always got a support and put them things in the vault and also
there's a lot of information here as well so if anybody's more interested on
Sarah and just trying to see more about what she's doing
it's like a video and a fucking bio and a summary and a book report and just
tons of stuff in there so shout out to you Sarah seriously thank you for
supporting I see you in the audience every day
that being said that being said fuck the artist they think they're so cool
I'm just kidding shout out to you Sarah really appreciate you and everyone
goes support Sarah I want to throw it over to again it's on the front page
of open series just go to the top I want to throw it over to Trevor
Trevor the bit Lord the bit mafia the bit godfather
Trevor dot BTC which probably is not a real domain
I think he's just been rocking that because he likes it
Trevor what's happening yo leap did you get in on the
oxbt no did you want to know the crazy part
is I literally didn't even meant it I didn't meant it I don't have are you
kidding me leap I'm not kidding you I'm not Trevor you
sound like AI bro you said are you kidding me leap
well I am AI dude I'm chad gbt like 17 dude
well I DM'd bit god about how to get um wait let me find the
we were just on a space for like four hours like counting down it
and minting as many friends many waltz we could I think I got like
like six wallets yeah I don't have any I literally don't have any
though the thing is at least now y'all know I'm unbiased in this interview so
um I mean I don't know dude like I just fucking didn't know how to do it I
trying to figure it out I was confused I was out eating fucking lunch or dinner
whatever the hell thread and I were doing
and uh the the mint went down and I just missed it
so so you and thread missed it yeah we both missed it I bet they're eating
Mexican food they've been eating an outrageous
amount of Mexican food okay I don't know how many times I can do
this whole fucking spiel about being on our best behavior
secondly it wasn't Mexican food we were actually having Thai food
thirdly yeah dude we just we just missed it I don't know
I just like happened so just call me dude if I'm on Twitter space like I'll
just answer the phone in the middle of the Twitter space if you need help you
know I know we were literally out we were out on Melrose and we're just
like fucking trying to figure out where we're going to move in the next week and
like we're just busy I should have like I didn't know how
fast it was going to happen I thought it would be maybe the mint would be open
longer same thing happened with the Bitcoin
decont I was like thinking like maybe I want to mint it maybe I don't want to
mint it and it just minted out in two minutes
so these things definitely move quick what is uh what is the price on
OSBT right now I think it's uh it's five cents per per
one so that's it's a 200 million supply so it's about a 10
million market cap right now that's not bad what did um what was
the mint price free it was a free claim that's why I'm
saying like you know oh shit so how much did you so how
much is six wallets but like how much did you make
so I mean it's obviously a like allow us you could do one per wallet
and then like we didn't know what the workflow was going to be and what
restrictions so it's like you just kind of got to kind of be ready to scramble and
like figure out a workflow on the spot for how to do it
and so you know this is why like what I recommend to everybody is like if
you're if you're a serious trader in here and you like
you should always have like like at least 20 wallets and have like 100 bucks
in each one for these type of things so that way you can like rapid fire you
know participate in these things um so how would you make trevor tell me
how much you made I mean we'll see man I'm gonna hold I'm
definitely what is it like a lunatic bro a hundred wallets with a hundred
dollars in each what did uh what I said I said 20 but
I did actually mean 100 with 100 or at least or 200
probably better like as many as many as your
chrome browser can fit without running out of RAM
so so trevor so to ask the question again how much is the six wallets you
minted how much is that worth it was five thousand each so that is
um 250 bucks each so it's like you know like a decent a decent like thousand
bucks you know like gonna go out for a stay gonna go out for a
steak dinner you know book a flight you know
you know depending on where you go if like i'm going from you know
from boss in new york you know it's like just get a first-class flight you
know uh thousand bucks each or a thousand
bucks total total total yeah 250 each that's pretty good a thousand
bucks for free dude people work fucking two weeks to
make a thousand bucks it's not bad at all what do you think I mean I don't even
want to talk about price predictions I'm more interested in like
how's the community responding to it I saw that vrc20s had the 1.8
million tweets they were trending it was going super viral
I don't even know how that's possible are there one there's not even a
million people that know about this thing let alone
tweeting about it the numbers don't really make sense to me
I mean I mean do you know how many people live in China
a lot quite a bit but I was in I was in there
no it's what do you mean the inner you mean twitter or the internet or what do
you mean I mean both are actually I mean like
there's a there's a great firewall but everybody has a vpn I lived in China for
five years um you could get free vpns like all my
local friends have vpn so people check twitter if you're in the crypto space
and you're in china you're on twitter for sure
um like when you go to china like I was in a city
like giving a workshop on like how to start a business
and the questions that people ask in china it's like I'm in a city I'm in a
like a tier three city I think a tier two or
two or three anyway it's definitely on tier one
it's like the population is six million people
and um they come up and they're like um mr mr owens like our city only has six
million people like should I'm like is it the market big
enough for my business to like six million people big enough
market like meanwhile like if you go like rome I think is like
five million people like rome italy you know I'm saying so
it's a it's a bigger it's a bigger level in china um and so
I haven't seen like I didn't I don't know how twitter calculates that I like
I don't know like who would be who would be trying to you know
spam or game the algorithm like it was just like to get a million tweets that's
like a like if it was about politics like maybe I
would be like hey it's a conspiracy but like for
something like you know middle curve like brc 20 like who's going to do that
so I guess I guess a lot of people are really excited about this right now
which understandably so do we know anything about what oxbt is
building and like is it just kind of an attention token what's the deal with it
you know I mean we haven't we have no idea so
hopefully big god will we'll talk about it tonight
um but I met big god I met uh lin doko those guys in miami like I don't know
them super well they're not like a childhood friend or you know a family
member anything like that but you know I didn't get any immediate red flags
meaning they seem like they're like generally cool
and you know like seem to have good intentions and I think uh
any allocation and he's just like working on it
um as a path as like a passion um potentially as a business as well he
didn't like to say whether it's a business or a passion but he was like
very much like saying that he's going to um
that he they're not like monetizing it as a team like they're
they're trying to do it like the right way and set a good example so I I hope
um that that's the case hmm okay all right well it's really fun to
see and cool to see people kind of doing some of this new stuff and
and you talked about you know how many people are in china I mean just the
other night I don't know if you were were you here
trevor during the space we did with the beetles the mesh beetles when they came
through I was not but no I love the I love
that that community they're crazy and they like they raid you like
like nuts like I love crazy they're they're not they really are
nuts like I they just popped it was like 200
beetles in the audience just we had a lot of them on stage talking to
and it was just such an interesting community I love the idea of building on
on ghost chains I don't know there's just something exciting about that so
I don't know and we then that again we took us down like a huge
historical kind of ghost chain rabbit hole rare sats this and that
there's a lot of cool stuff out there and ways to kind of
reinvigorate your passion for this stuff I think a lot of times people just
get stuck on buying whatever's trendy or whatever's moving
whatever it might be but there's a lot of a lot of niche aspects of the space that
kind of get ignored so I would definitely be down to do I kind of
want to do more historical archeological whatever however you
want to put it kind of nft spaces in the future
because we used to do quite a bit of them we moved away from it but
now shout out to you trevor um where I think I hope big god's gonna get in
here I have no idea if not we'll just we'll just move on
uh burden what's happening dude I fucking I minted of my first
brc 20 today let's fucking go let's go burden I got 3 000 of this
rxb thing dude what is it going to a dollar dude why does it go I did this
is the first time I'm fucking showing my bags dude
rxbt to the fucking moon okay it's not rxbt like it's not even
the name of it I said rxbt dude okay it definitely sounds like an r um okay
well that's cool was that how was the process for you
did you find it easy was it I'm gonna keep it a whole buck I was lost for so
long dude listen I woke up so early because I thought like
the thing the whitelist I had was for the snapshot
so I'm like messaging big god dude I don't know what's happening it's not
that he's like sir that's for the snapshot you have to
meet in two hours I'm like bro what the hell is going on around here
and then when the time finally came it was actually pretty easy after that I
was just confused that was my fault you just put in the amount you want to buy
you press mint and then it takes a little long for the
bitcoin to go through but like apart from that it was actually
would you do it again did you like I mean it was cool like it was cool seeing
the number like the percentage of the like supply go
up and up and up and up live um but yeah I think I'd do it again that
wasn't like bad or anything it was pretty cool
so do you think Solana or Bitcoin is better I mean
I mean it's definitely better than Ethereum I wouldn't say Solana though
oh my god uh dude all right that's fair I'll take that as a
take okay well again these things are trending I don't
think BRC20s are going anywhere like they're just here to stay in my
opinion you know Michael Saylor talking about them all the bitcoin people
I don't know um Trevor were you there for that space that Udi did
that debate space the other day bro I helped run that dude what so can
you can I wasn't there I don't remember what I was doing at that time I was
busy can you give me like a brief summary of
what happened in that space I mean Udi mercilessly dunked on
a dude who has kind of an impressive background but he's like
a bit like over the hill 60 year old boomer
like wall street f like wall street guy um
who like just yeah like is Canadian I mean Udi just like he kept walking back
his statements you know but just like you know like step by step so Udi just
had to keep slam body slamming him over and over
until he like kept walking it back you know for like two hours
and then in the end like he was asking Udi to
he had to unblock him a couple times and Udi finally unblocked him
but um yeah it was just it was just a bloodbath
of a debate like it was totally one-sided did something happen with
El Salvador I can't speak El Salvador and Udi
because he was on Faroque show this morning and he was making it sound
like the entire country of El Salvador is like
like against him right now and I don't understand where that's coming from
Udi was saying that oh that's just a joke um
people in El Salvador don't even use Bitcoin as much as like
the blockstream people uh like claim like
he's not actually feeling guilty about El Salvador
it was a joke I mean like yeah like they're they don't like Bitcoin like if
you go down there and you try to pay for stuff
it's kind of it's kind of like if you go down there like a Bitcoin conference
probably everybody's out there accepting it but like it's really not like the
main currency as far as I understand I haven't been personally but like
as far as like the stuff I read and like what I hear from people like it's
they adopted Bitcoin as a as a official legal currency so I have
actually a lot of countries in Africa I don't like this fucking joke like I
have been all day today I've been feeling bad for El Salvador
like and and the fact that like Udi and we played a part in it like that that's
fucked up that that's a joke it's kind of fucked up
well it's a joke because it's a lie because like
you know that's not fucking up jokes though he does like he calls no no it's
not a fucked up joke it's like it's like him it's like
in this this this like uh unhinged six-year-old man
who you know said totally like fucked up uh things like
like told like he wrote he wrote a video saying I can't
I can't believe Udi was not fucking assaulted
and that's like that's like you know if the laser eyes community it's like
there's some really deranged people in there you know I mean like
um you know no offense anyone who voted for Trump but like you know it's
like you it's like those people especially
the laser eyes because the laser eyes community it's like this
is like a special group of people who are not technical
typically you know they're very like uh typically
like right-wing you know libertarian too like some libertarians are quite smart
but like these people are people who feel like the system
has done them wrong and that's why they come to bitcoin because like they
are already in that mindset like I have to like fight the government you know
make sure I keep it gone etc and so this is like you know if someone's
like saying like I can't believe Udi's not assaulted and like that's their
audience like that's like that's definitely pretty fucked up
and anyway yeah that's what he was saying in relation to El Salvador
well no no no it wasn't there wasn't anything
he had nothing to do with El Salvador come into this
okay so the reason El Salvador came into this
is because El Salvador is like and also like
other African countries is a use case that
has had certain laser eyed maxis like put all their hopes and dreams on in
terms of bitcoin adoption and so it was a narrative for a long
time only on one laser eyes who as you can clearly see by the traction
ordinals laser eyes have no fucking clue like what
bitcoin's use case is and they have no fucking clue
about even how a use case is figured out or discovered they just like think that
like this is the use case they've been told that and they're not very like
flexible minds and so people put their hopes and dreams
on like El Salvador and africa adoption and like it didn't
happen like in fact those places tended to adopt
stable coins like tether and usdc in places with unstable currencies as
opposed to to bitcoin and like the whole inflation
hedge argument from empirical data as of now
has not really panned out it seems like what really spiked bitcoin's price is
not people hedging against inflation but that people had so much extra cash
from inflation that they put it into bitcoin
because they nothing else to put it into so you know when people say like
people are complaining they're like oh you're clogging the network
it's like you know they're like they're using this sort of like
virtue signaling uh aspect of being like what about the people at el sat what
about the poor people they can't afford these fees
and so it's kind of a joke because those people aren't using it and like that
sort of meme of adoption narrative adoption has failed
uh to a large extent or been like shown by data that
it's not really working um in any case like it goes
i would say the exact opposite of like how adoption will work
like adoption there's never been a there's never been a disruptive
technology if you think about the internet if you think about like
social media if you think about like like um
you know the the smartphone like the telephone like name any disruptive
technology in history none of them started in emerging markets
and then scaled to global adoption from within
uh emerging markets and so you know even even with bitcoin like when
i talk to people like dan held who is an actual marketing guy who's been in
the space for a decade you know at different exchanges and like
has studied like he actually studies you know
adoption which is a discipline within marketing
um the idea is like uh the store of values case has been like the most
uh the store of values case has been the most like widely adopted and
responsible for adoption and that is kickstarted by speculation
and so if store value is the use case well then the primary adoption vector is
going to be whatever place has the majority of value
in the world so in order to get as much value stored on
the bitcoin you have to go where the most value exists in this world that
that's primarily unfortunately in western markets
now i don't have any you know we could discuss the morality of that as of
that it's irrelevant because we're just
talking about like where is adoption going to come from
how's it going to happen it's out of our control the market you know we can't
change what the market's going to do um and so it's it's kind of a troll on
uh like udi's essentially trolling um the maxis
and he's not making fun of like people who are disadvantaged in
emerging markets because if you actually understand what's going on you'd
realize that they're not using bitcoin they're using stable
coins predominantly did that make sense dude we've seen one of
them leap do you remember when we had that one
fucking the the maxi up here bro yeah i think i think wizard
you're thinking of d plus i think what no dude he was he was he was the he
was a maxi he was a bitcoin maxi yeah i i think well we've had a bunch of
laser-eye maxis on the stage before um i mean dude they just suck laser-eye maxis
suck i don't know what else to tell you like they
they they're lame they're whack they literally suck
and there's no other way to put it and i really don't say that about mini
if any groups of people but nine out of ten laser-eye maxis that i
meet are just fucking jerks and i'm sure they wouldn't be like that in
person like nobody acts the way they act on twitter in person everyone just
they're normal in person and on twitter it's
it's kind of like what trevor was saying i mean look it's they feel
that there's an outside group coming in that's imagine you have a home
and everything's clean and peaceful and your laundry is folded
and your dog's doing its thing and whatever the kitchen's clean no dishes
in the sink and then somebody comes over uninvited
and they just trash the house and they're mixing it up they're doing
art on a giant canvas in your bedroom they're like splattering paint
everywhere they have a music studio in the bathroom
they're like recording they're doing all this stuff they're being creative
but it's so messy it's so loud it's so it's just full of chaos
and that's basically what the ordinals kids are doing in bitcoin right now
they're like creating they're doing they're breaking the mold they're doing
interesting stuff but it's loud it's intense it's a lot
and it also kind of fucked you know it fucks with their vibe or whatever it is
and they don't like it and i understand that
i think the el salvador stuff is kind of a i think people just use that as like
a virtue signaling tactic to be honest with you
i don't see them helping el salvador in any like you're not out here championing
el salvador but the second that oody comes over here and wants to dress up
like a wizard apparently now you care about el salvador so it just
i don't know trevor what do you think yeah i would i would compare the ordinals
people coming into like with the laser maxes is like imagining
imagine like you're really lonely you live by yourself in your apartment and
like you have no friends and like your neighbors like are
throwing a party across the hall but they don't invite you
but then like like young good looking people like are all coming up
coming through you're like knocking your door like hey is the party here and
you're like oh no it's across the hallway
and then like they go over there they're like having a great time
like good music but you're just by your fucking self
in a in a in your apartment like did this happen to you
no no this is like how i think of it it's like like
it's not like someone messing up your house like i mean most of these people
are not you know not living in a palace like they tend
they tend to have like like one of the reasons why
they're not into inscribing ordinals because they don't have a lot of bitcoin
like they don't have enough bitcoin to inscribe like literally
um and so you know what the average amount of bitcoin they have
um like probably a thousand bucks probably two thousand bucks
okay this is this is the one part you can't
every time a laser maxi comes out you're like oh well you're broke
like you know they are no they they literally are i mean
um bro that's a macbook pro people finance that
yeah i mean you know these are people that put 500 bucks into bitcoin like if you
meet these people in their life you can just tell like
you know that they're not they're not coming from a lot of money you know
they're not like entrepreneurs um some of them are but they're like
not like you know there's of course like you
can't generalize any group of people like there's exceptions but like
as like a percentage basis like most laser maxis are
you know not not the highest education not builders you know like
in in nick carton uti and nick carter and eric were due to
all the bankless partners i highly recommend you listen to it because it all
explained to you a lot about the bitcoin culture and how it came to be
but like the problem with these people is like
you know one of the things i always try to avoid is like having a very heavy
like bag bias like as a trader like when you invest in something
you don't get too attached to it you know you always want to be like flexible
like these people have something worse they have they have an identity bias
like they're not invested in this just like as a stakeholder with some bags of
money like they put their identity into it and that
is an even bigger bias like order of magnitude how it messes you up
especially if you invested in like an idea and a dream of a certain
way of something like coming like it's gonna make it give you a
lot of cognitive bias um and so you know with with the um
like going forward like there's there's no doubt like the
the uh biggest bitcoin startups are going to be built in the ordinal space
um you know the the next unicorn startups like they're not going to be in
the payment space like you know like these these companies like i
know how many users they have like i receive the decks and i receive you
know the um the things about like what their
selling points are and a lot of them don't even put the users
you know on there they don't put their attention numbers they don't put like
the actual important metrics because people don't use bitcoin as a payment
and the reason is because i've said this many times
until people store a ton of value in bitcoin as store value they're not
there's not gonna be the demand to use it
for payments and so people are going to demand to pay with whatever they hold
most of their like um in the most liquid thing that
they have right so um it's not going to happen and i
think that um when we get like ordinals and brc20s
this is a store value use case it's going to grow the mark up of bitcoin
but if you're putting more value into it i mean we could see from the men pool
like before ordinals happened it was like one sat per v bite
like these laser vaccines were not paying for the security of bitcoin
like ordinals people came in and they paid they paid the bill
so it's like imagine you have like you know a
a sibling of yours who doesn't have a job you know it's just
like mooching and free riding they're not paying the security bill
but you're out working your ass off you're making money you're you know
having a real job and you come and you pay for their shit all the time
like that's the difference between the laser eyes and the ordinals for the
security budget and you know i think that um like they're
going through uh a reckoning like the space is
going to grow a ton um you know and all these people are
going to see in a few in a few uh like a year or so like how wrong they
were about the thesis of the market and all the
people who are doubling down on that use case are just going to kind of get
washed out as like thought leaders influencers etc
i made it i made it very interesting to you today where i was like you know a lot
of these maxi are very anti-innovation like if something goes
against um like what they view as the use
case like they just try to attack it and shit on it
and like this is why developers don't want to build on bitcoin
because like they get attacked by these people especially
most developers do not have rock hard you know thick skin like me
where i where you come and you come for me i come back for you twice
um you know most developers are very like shy and like they are very like
you know introverted and like genuine and like if
if like a bunch of people come and call them a scammer like they're
not going to build stuff and so these laser eyes are directly hurting
innovation i've experienced it for like two
years you know working with the sachs community
the both like the the fact that you have to deal with so much nonsense
as a builder is just a shame and you know i tweeted like it's a it's like
obvious that like having like if you build in a theater
udi tweeted out support for this guy who yeah that's insane like what you
talked about trevor yeah yeah no i'm saying like it's just
insane that everyone's these laser eyes just taking
advantage of people and talking shit about so so uh so jake yeah well let me
jake and trevor so oh man um so so many generalizations in that
rivet yeah rott rivet damn right so many generalizations
in in that in everything you were saying but
dude like eric and and udi i have such like i'm so like mixed with
those two because i think that they're so smart
but they they they do the same thing to them that they do to us
and like i just got attacked by some laser eye maxes
today in a discord because i was like hey guys
have you moved over to ordinals yet and like all of a sudden like
people with bitcoin in their discord names like suddenly popped up
and started attacking me so like i do understand it but i was just like
all right guys like i didn't realize you were laser eyes
have fun with that i'm gonna go make money
right so like yeah but i mean you know like people like we have to stick up
for the builders right so you have to fight fire you have to fight
fire with fire like do we do we or do we rise above man
because they represent us too right well there's a
there's a time you know there's a time when you do in a time when you don't
like it really depends on the situation but trevor but trevor you have to think
about batman batman never killed the killers he just put him
away yeah dude i literally i struggle with i
struggle with that dude you know i'm more a fan of john wick i'm more a fan
of like you know redemption plus revenge
you know so you know batman i think is a little bit of a
pussy sometimes like no trevor the original version of
batman he actually slaughters everyone who wrongs him and had to take it out
to make it peachy okay what are we doing yeah let me just let me
just jump in here real quick because we're not talking about a fucking
batman batman and keanu reeves and all this stuff
uh look here's the thing laser eye maxis
i think they just get it i think they're just smarter
more attractive this is better just all around top to bottom superior
intellectuals and the thing with the ordinals groups
is that ordinals they want like here's the thing people who like inscriptions
want to ruin bitcoin they purposely they want to ruin it to drive the price as
low as possible so they can buy it up and do a 51
attack and trevor what do you think about these
allegations i can't even unmute the stage here this is ridiculous
i don't know why they put the button right there
yeah w take um okay i'm sorry i was still muted by you leap
uh horrible yeah so the the the end of the end of my story i meant to
say that like um you know i like we need to get as
many builders in bitcoin as possible right so
you know a lot of the a lot of laser eyes like
they they're like regular joes you know and there's nothing wrong with that
but like coming from like silicon valley we know 95 of web two startups fail
okay blockchain is harder in web two like
there's going to be more failures if we want to have you know one breakthrough
that's going to onboard you know millions of people
we need several of those we're going to need thousands of developers to do dumb
shit you know and like just make sure that
they're legit they're not trying to scam people that's obviously going to be
difficult but like doing stuff like raising money
and doing a token if it makes sense like should be fine like how fucking wild of
an idea is that that like that should be fine and the fact
that people uh talk some axes literally make the
developers lives more difficult is what pushes people to build uh other
places instead of on bitcoin and they don't they don't realize that they don't
realize anything i just said about like how innovation and disruptive innovation
works and like how we need to attract developers a lot of
laser macs say bitcoin doesn't need developers
then like bitcoin hasn't they say like bitcoin doesn't even if i was perfect
they don't realize that there's like you know like commits to the to bitcoin
core every single day and bug fixes the bitcoin core every
single day and software is is like always maintained it's never
ever done like and um well i tweeted like hey this is important like
these guys have like kept back innovation or you know
the the reason that that we have these talks and maxis is the reason
that we don't have as much innovation and udi tweeted back like no trevor the
reason we have talks and maxis because we
don't have innovation which i thought was kind of interesting to like kind of
flip it like that so you know like perhaps if we just like
innovate and do cold shit like you know they'll be gone essentially
dude can i add to that leap i just wanted to say the fact that the whole
reason bitcoin was just created was that
people chose to do whatever the fuck they want with bitcoin
you didn't you didn't have like middlemen or a bank or institution
selling you know you can't use it that way
so they were literally using sats to for silk road and drugs back in the
days now who the hell are they to tell us
that we can't do this we can't we can't inscribe jpegs in the fucking
blockchain who who are they like they were using
this shit for drugs and money laundering all that stuff back in the
days now they're telling coming us coming at us and saying this is bad
this is garbage you can't do this you guys are frog tarts
like it just doesn't make sense so on to what trevor said uh
fuck him ribbit ribbit so but but so i i agree with like jake obviously you
know i'm like with you right like i'm you know ribbit ribbit ribbit right
but you know again i just feel like i feel like we're building a scene
right and i and i feel like okay so i was on a space after that interview
uh with i guess it was ud and like there were people who were
east people who were on that space who were disgusted at at the conversation
that happened in that space you know i mean you know none of this
really matters to me personally because i'm just gonna buy ordinals
right and hang out with my people and and you know whatever but like
when i first saw that this war was going on i was like i was like
holy crap like i can't believe i can't believe that
over like a blockchain that it's gotten to this point where
these people can't just sit down and have a normal conversation where they're not
attacking each other or like in in an answer to a question having
like you know sharp jab at them or something like like i don't
it's on both sides right it's not it's i'm not like picking on anybody and
and like again i eric and and ud like
you know part i think that they're partially responsible for why we're here
right and i also think they're funny right i love the
flossing and all that but like there is there is like a mean streak
when they get in uh get into it with the the maxis
and like i just wonder if maybe it will be a better look for the scene
right that is new and emerging uh it would just be a better look if
we just said all right well you know what you guys can continue to talk about
whatever you're talking about over there and we're going to go and we're going to
describe our ordinals and there's nothing you can do about it
because there's you know like it's the blockchain and
anybody can use it any way that they want there was a bunch of people in a
space the other day uh who were complaining about um
these new protocols that are coming out that allow you to
like point to a off bitcoin uh asset right and um
you know basically saying we don't want that we want to just inscribe
on bitcoin right so what this protocol would do is you know
from my understanding is it inscribes on bitcoin
sort of the same way that eth works where it's pointing to something like ipfs
right so like though there was a good like
half-hour conversation where we were talking about that and the way that it
ended was we can't be hypocrites we we are using the
blockchain the way that we want to use it and if somebody else comes around and
wants to use the blockchain the way that they want to use it then so be it
right and you know like at the end of the day again i i think that we need
to have our leaders and i do think that
trevor you uh you know uh uh ud and eric are our are our
leaders right and we need you guys to to be
leaders who are uh you know also like leading the scene with
you know with with some some some some i'll say it's like a religion you're
you're the jesus of of this religion that's considered
either bitcoin or ethereum or whatever there you go
well okay so let me jump in here first can somebody confirm
for me that our twitter space is broken right now like if you click on my
profile does it show that i'm in this okay it does it wasn't showing before it
wasn't showing for a few minutes actually
no it doesn't even show trevor if you click trevor's profile doesn't show he's
in the space at the top you hear me i can hear you but um somebody click
trevor's profile see if he's in the space at the top
um second you guys hear me what the yes i can he's in the space at the top
okay i can i can hear all of you i meant like if you click his profile and
you look at his pfp does it have the purple circle around can
somebody confirm secondly dude fuck the laser eye maxis
no we don't you don't have to be nice dude fuck all of that dude they're jerks
they're assholes they come up here they insult everything that happens on e
that and so all nfts they insulted they like here's the thing i have tried
and just for the record not all laser eye maxis are bad like
we're using a lot of sensationalized umbrella terms here of course
it's a twitter space is what we do there's a lot of great people that are
laser eye maxis i've met a bunch of them they're awesome a lot of them are really
intelligent they know what they're doing um who was the guy there was a guy that
came up in our space the other day who was a laser eye maxi
and he was he i mean he was one of the most educated people on bitcoin i've ever
met my entire life and we chatted in dms afterwards so i
actually want to invite actually i'm gonna invite him back tonight i'm gonna
send him a message here and um but a lot of them that come up are
just fucking jerks and and they troll and they're and they're mean and they
insult everyone and we've seen this if you've come to our space for any of
these debates you know exactly what i'm talking about
so while i do agree you should lead with kindness and you should always try to
you know be nice to people and you know with within a reasonable extent
i think when it comes to things like this especially when it comes to twitter
i'm i'm down for the smoke i'm down for people to get shiesty
like sometimes you just have to especially when and i think especially
that udi debate um with the other gentlemen
i mean it wasn't instigated by udi as far as i could be wrong about that but
i think really what set that yeah i i invited them i invited them both
what to that space specifically yeah yeah well i i would just like i would
i randomly just hit up greg well because i greg followed me and he seemed like
reasonable person until i saw those like unhinged meltdown videos
and so i just thought like um hit him up see if you want to talk
about it um you know i was hoping that he would
like apologize and walk it back i mean he tried to but he
like really didn't that much um and i think that um
you know from from my perspective i i agree with you leap like
you can't be nice to assholes like if someone's like
coming and fucking with your shit and you're just gonna like you have to use
force sometimes you know what i mean you can't just be nice to people and be
like oh you're gonna like please stop bullying me
please stop bullying me like sometimes you gotta punch a bully in the face
like i was bullied as a kid i was bullied as a kid like you know i
was a nerd etc and then one time i punched a bully in the face i was a
little kid because i had nothing else i could do
and guess what the bully fucking never bothered me again and so
you know it really depends like the the toxic maxis only have one tool or
toolkit you need to have uh all the tools in your
toolkit you need to be able to be nice but you also need to defend yourself
and i think that um like like greg needed like there needed to be an
example made of greg because what he did was told uncalled for he
literally potentially put like beauty's safety in danger at the
conference from the words that he said saying i
can't i can't fucking believe he didn't get assaulted
and saying and he said and then a few words later he said this is a call to
action like i could play you guys a clip
but the clip definitely with a hundred thousand followers
there are like 25 of people in the u.s have mental health issues okay
so one and four and then like how many people do you think especially in the
laser and maxi community might be like might actually like commit
violence you know especially if like they're hyped up to think like
oody is ruining bitcoin and like that oody it like should be assaulted and we
have to like protect the children these are all things he said he said like
call to action i can't believe he didn't get fucking assaulted
like he had to be made an example of to let people know that's not okay to do
we gave him a chance to like literally uh like
to back off it and like admit like why it's correct he didn't do that
oody was not being mean to him he was literally defending himself
on the show and explaining like this is not acceptable under any situation
and he and you know you know like what are your what are your claims
you're claiming i did this you're claiming i did that this is why it's
not true and um i mean you know forever comes down to
just like everything within a reasonable extent
right like the the violence instigation i mean
that's where i mean at that point just becomes criminal like it's illegal
you cannot incite people to commit violence
exactly well see i didn't know that right so i didn't know because i'm obviously
not in the middle of it the way maybe some other people are so
you know trevor you know i apologize then if i am
uh if i am naive in uh some of my points of view uh
because that is not okay in any way shape or form
i was bullied when i was a kid too i did the same thing that you did
and it ended right so i understand that right but
again at the end of the day there is i have to i have to jump but
at the end of the day uh you know i still like when you represent something
right i think that i think that i think that there is a weight on your
shoulders and there is a certain way that
that you act right and in any kind of situation
and uh you know i again i think trevor we look at you guys it's like
leaders of this movement right obviously um
and uh you know just it would be great if we could all get along at the end of
the day but maybe we can't add you know but
it's our chain it's their chain it's everybody's chain
you know i guess we'll figure it out but again i didn't know that so i apologize
yeah no no no no need to apologize at all it's
all good um you know i i i think that you have
one thing you need to realize is that some of these things won't go away
because it's politics so you know again there are like certain
entities in the bitcoin ecosystem is completely decentralized there's no
metallic there's no foundation saying like
here's who's in charge here's who's doing this there's no like people with
like um sort of responsibility or authority
and so there are power grabs all the time in bitcoin it's very
decentralized there are different ecosystems
that you know um try to undermine other ones
and so you know this this is all like you know
like the same thing you see in politics like so it's not going to go away to
some extent um some of these ecosystems like want to
attract the people who are most like easily brainwashed i mean we
could go into like political theory and like
how this stuff plays out but um i think at the end of the day like
you you have to do what you have to do and people and like you punch the
bully in the face like the teacher's going to be mad at you
you're going to be called in the principal's office but at the end of the day
like maybe your mom came and you know then like nothing happens because you
like actually stuck up for yourself and there's like
you know reasons for why what you did was like self-defense right so
you know you're not going to be able to make everybody happy you're going to
piss people off sometimes but you have to make like the right call
essentially yeah you're right i i i got suspended for three days though
but guys leap thank you for having me up trevor thanks for uh
you know humoring some of my perspectives and and giving me new information
uh everybody have a good rest of your night a good weekend
and thanks again leap no appreciate you appreciate you so much for coming up
and speaking of politics so we're going to be releasing a new project here
later tonight we're dropping allow lists it's brc 20 inscription
salona slp token and it's called presidential dao
so we're going to be nominating one person to be the president of the united
states and we're going to be we're going to get all the whales it's called
pride it's like constitution dao but instead of going for the constitution
we're going for the presidency so i nominate the gummy bear
i nominate shirley low okay i don't i don't think all right gun bear
president shirley low vice president let's do it i don't think that i don't
think that's going to work at all um no we were joking a little bit about
presidential dao yesterday and and illa was the one who came up with the
idea so shout out to illa but yeah it's just something interesting to
think about i want to throw it to some of these hands
and before we do let's reset the space real quick welcome everybody appreciate
y'all for popping out probably going to switch the title i don't know if big
god big god was supposed to jump in here i don't know if he's actually
going to jump in tonight i know he's busy they're doing all
the shit with this stuff so we'll see what happens that being said if you're
enjoying anything about the convo click the button bottom right hand corner
show some love likes comments retweets all that good stuff
it's also pinned at the top here in a moment
also this uh this streetwear is pretty cool or this clothing this fashion this
apparel however you want to put it deep into the top here justin i want to
throw it over to tetra first tetra what's going on good to see you
what's up man listen i was literally about to go on mints like two hours ago
and like you know how you said you're forgetful like i don't know if it was
yesterday or whatever on the way to my laptop
to mints i forgot i was going there to mint so i ended up just programming an
ar file for like two hours and then it just literally hit me five
minutes ago that i forgot so that was terrible but yo you know i
i don't know if like so maybe someone like a trevor knows is there like a
maybe a plugin or something for a wall or maybe so someone should make one
that would be something like a sat sifter and like you essentially plug it
in and every time like a transaction goes through like your unisat like it
essentially checks and sees if you have any rare sats and then like you're able
to like i don't know keep those or you know to keep them to like inscribe on
them or something like that that'd be a pretty cool plugin yeah there are
there's like two of them out right now um i haven't checked them out i think rare
sat society or rare satosh society is one
there's another one they just heard of like if you kind of google around for
it like twitter search sucks man but you can it's out there like if you
search for it like um and some other people probably
might know like bill dude billy rusty might be like the best trader in ornamles
i'm starting to suspect billy's like he's made all the like the
thing about ordinals i think is it's like uh it's like a left curve right curve
thing like ordinals and then like brc 20 and some and like um
the frogs for example that was like a middle curve play i think to get early
on that i was close mate's like you know sort of like
right middle curve you know i'm saying but i'm i like when i wanted to sweep
like a hundred of those i was like giving out to friends and
stuff like that i was like should i sweep a hundred i went to sleep and i woke
up and it was like four thousand dollars and not five fifty dollars anymore
but billy got all of these dude billy made all of these trades
and uh he's been like also like trading his own um
he's like you know he's a very successful artist as well in ordinals
so uh i guarantee you billy knows he's on
everything like he must be a full-time trader
so i wonder if the ping billy in here because i'm looking for this and i
i've been looking for but i can't find one like especially one that's like a
plug-in that would let you know yours like i know that there's ones that like
kind of like check in general but like it'd be cool like if it was like a
plug-in that would literally let you know like your transaction comes in
and then you would keep like certain sats and like it would categorize them
like these are pizza sats or these are whatever sats i'm like
i put some in a different category and then you just hold them
billy's definitely came up like 20 mil in the past month
dude i can't believe those frogs are four thousand dollars a piece
that's it's probably i bought a pingu the other night and not a single
person in the pingu community gave a fuck
jesus christ what is pengo community doing they need to get on they only
get on their shit put some respect on your name tetra
dude i was looking at the on magic eden at some of these
some of the ordinals i mean the floor prices are nuts
it's literally just nuts how things move on bitcoin
like something moving to a point i mean even zk's collection
there's like approaching a whole bitcoin per piece
you're talking like 15 eth floors like 12 eth floor like
it's crazy it's actually crazy so i don't know i think
where there's financial gain and monetary incentive is where people are
going to go and there is just so much more liquidity
on bitcoin it's hard for me to find a world in which
ordinals don't just win like they just like become the biggest
just because of the like i sometimes i so when i used to hear that argument
it's just there's more liquidity on bitcoin i thought it was
a huge oversimplification of what made a chain good for
creative projects or building or community-based stuff and
i always look at ethereum and say okay well there's smart contracts and
it's there's more infrastructure it's more put
more full more fleshed out there's these massive projects and communities
already here there's a lot of investment from
web2 brands and corporate structure however you want to put it
and i was like there's no way that bitcoin somehow gets bigger than this
in terms of nfts or whatever it might i know they're digital artifacts but
to call them nfts is easier um and i think ethereum is still
going to always be really big and ethereum is going to be the home for
probably the majority of stuff going forward just because it's also cheaper to
operate on i think it's going to get it could
definitely get pretty expensive to operate on
inscriptions and ordinals and all these things that being said
the huge huge advantage with liquidity is just so hard to overlook at this
point and when i see these four prices it just makes me
it's just hard for me to see a world in which somebody who wants to build a
project chooses to build it on ethereum as
opposed to bitcoin now i am down to be wrong i'm 100%
down to be wrong justin i see you down going i'll throw it over to you in
here in a moment i'm down to be wrong about this i'm 100% down to be wrong
that being said if you have the choice and you're building a project and you
want to mint it out and you can make 10x the amount on
ordinals like why is somebody going to pick ethereum
i don't want to oversimplify and just bring it down to money and like points
like that but this space runs on money people
are incentivized by to be honest so i'm going to throw it over to justin i
mean justin what do you think what are the advantages
to building a project on ethereum right now as opposed to ordinals
yeah anyway um so the reason and i also want to state why i first raised my
hand but i'll just this first so look i that pin post that i that you
commented on um you know i'm staying true to like
i like i think over time most people are going to follow the brands or
they love regardless of chain right i think over time chains are not
going to be as important nearly as important as the brands and
artists um who build on top of it though in the same way like you know people
don't really care if they go to a javascript site or another site
as long as it's working and they're buying from a brand e-commerce site
that works you know they'll do it um so but this specific argument that i've
heard time and time again here's the counter to it and i think
it's actually more concerning that there and just hear me
out that there is so much liquidity out of the type of liquidity
on bitcoin i'm i'm open to your counters to this but
the reason why there's liquidity on bitcoin or basically people with
a lot of bitcoin is because the majority of those people view bitcoin
as dora value so the way you need to rationally convince those people to spend
their precious bitcoin on literally that
the lowest common denominator of bitcoin itself is if you convince them
that's what's being inscribed on those stats will go up in value
more than just holding the bitcoin on its own
so when if you ask a rational person do you want to collect
art and do you want to use gold or do you want to use
your credit card like they're probably going to select their credit card
and that same thing would in my view apply to those people who view bitcoin
as dora value hey like cool art they're like all right
sure i don't really care about ethereum like
that's just play money or even better polygon right
matic let's use that to just you know trade art
um but my precious bitcoin why would i want to part with that
again the only reason to do so financially
would be if they view any of the collections
on bitcoin to go up at a higher rate and faster rate
than bitcoin itself same thing by the way with ethereum
and nfts right like if you're buying like
a really high floor price nft collection right now you need a
your bet is on that that collection is going to go
up in value percentage wise quicker than ethereum itself right if you're
spending ethereum i think the chain that's so far ahead as
far as mass adoption is concerned not necessarily as far as
volume of of currency spent on it but wallets onboarded which i think is
probably a more important metric in my view
is polygon man like like alo yoga in all in their stores now they're minting
uh they're minting uh phrases uh with you know inspirational phrases
with polygon like it's and like it's free right and
that's an interesting strategy that a lot of the larger brands are doing
at first is offering free and that's you know
getting someone to go from zero to maybe eventually making some money on a wallet
is much easier to retain that customer versus someone that's spending a lot of
money on a wallet and only a few percentage of the people
that are spending a lot of money are going to make it
the large percentage that don't maybe have a bad taste in their mouth from
using that again so there's a huge advantage to start
really low or really cheap but the real reason i came on stage dude
i'm like so dirty with like dirt and mud all the way up to my knees you
know why just came back from an archaeological dig from an
excavation site as we all know proof of work ethereum
and i've been building i've been trading i've been buying i've been selling
pre-macy pre-bacy pre-doodles pre-clone pre-derage they're all the rage um
i don't know you you guys might be next historical meta and you know i love
history and archaeological uh digs related to digital blockchains
but all of our all of our nfts have twins on back to the future you know
blockchain proof of work yah yasdi for the win
do we what have we created what have we exposed the audience to
what about eth classic what about nfts there are nfts on eth
classic i i'm not by the way for those who
don't i hopefully i can't read sarcasm hopefully
people can read my sarcasm don't go trade proof of work for financial
gain at all i don't know anything really about the
financial aspect but it's fascinating from historical aspect
eth are there eth class leap are there eth classic nfts
i don't think so i don't think i mean there could be you never you never
know what random project or builder dev just put out back then
i don't think so though but if there was like would it
i'll even take it a step further is there any value from like
let's say the first 100 eth ever created let's say you got like the one of
the first 10 ethereum itself ever created would there be value there do you think
somebody would care about that even if it was on eth classic
i don't know well that's where i'm like i don't know if it's about the
underlying technology is as much as about
the artist or brand on top of it right like you look at like the top 20
art sales of all time right they're all on basic canvas
like there's a walnut wood panel which is not a rare
like commodity right so i'll tell you like i and again i this is just my thesis
and i know i'm an anomaly i know i am in the nft world i get that
but going from all the way decentralization to all the way
centralization so i love the branding of redacted right i
just think there's something that i just look at their feet and it reminds me
of my favorite brands like offway like kith like daniel arsham is an
artist i'm just like dude if they're building i don't even know what they're
building but i'm like i want them to build a streetwear collection
okay so i you know got some of the you know
oxbt because i just i just think what they do or just resonates with me
on the other end of the spectrum nb introduced me to stedition art
it's not it wasn't even a blockchain it was just artists selling
digital art on a centralized site called stedition art the same you know
founder of sachi art um um and um verus art and i got like a 20
what was it nb 2011 and a rafik anadol but i got it
because of rafik anadol not because it was centralized
i didn't get redacted because it was decentralized i don't know i
maybe i'm the anomaly but i i have a feeling like a lot of people that just
collect art and collect like streetwear and stuff are gonna
follow that model but i don't know that's me i think it's also like it
comes down to like the storytelling behind it like
do maybe anybody in this room maybe yes maybe no care about like the first 10
ethno but like if someone gets behind it puts the right storytelling
proposes why they have value with the right story anything it's like
the salvador monday story where the painting was only like a few hundred
bucks and then eventually it was bought for
like 450 million by like the royal family like i think in like
saudi or whatever it was and it was because they had assumed that it was the
last piece that was made by da Vinci but like before it
was just like some painting that was like worth like a couple grand
but it's like someone builds a story around it it's like who can really prove
whether that was real who even knows if it's just money
laundering but it's like really when it comes down to it it's like whoever builds
a great story around something that narrative can also
ultimately sell anything there's a lot of controversy for whether or not that
piece is authentic exactly and it still was sold for
450 million and it's like was it really sold because there's also the whole game
of like you know buying art and then having it
like appraised and valued by you know appraisers they have connections to
and then it goes up to this insane value and then you donate that art to
you know a charity or to like you know a museum of your choice and
then you get a fraction of that amount that you donated like basically deducted
from your taxes so like there's this whole like incentive
for you know what happens in the art business as well to like you know keep
sales like is it just you know form of wash trading in the art
business and you know tax evasion who knows
hmm well i i think what i mean this is it's so
important narrative and story sells everything not just in this space but
in everything and um you know a lot of times
the projects that i get behind are things that i get excited about are the
ones that have a cool story sometimes the art is
trash sometimes maybe even the plan of the
project isn't the greatest but if the story is good then i can get
excited and i i think a lot of people kind of feel
the same way too um and that's why also i think twitter
spaces are so effective for selling in web 3 which is why you see founders
doing twitter spaces because they're selling you something they're fucking
up here pitching they're they're shilling whatever it is
but some people are better at it than others and it doesn't come off as
shilly that's why twitter space is so good
because it gives them an opportunity to kind of
explain and articulate whatever that story is so something to think about i
want to throw it quickly over to crypto chris g and then we're going to go to
fud chris what's going on hey leave it's
right me up man um this was absolutely a wild day for me
i mean i faded this uh this drop until like
9 35 pm and i'm like ah well it said there's 30 minutes
all right i'm gonna go learn how to do this shit real quick and i literally
taught myself how to from it was like at 89 filled and i
taught myself how to buy the oxt and like it was at 92 it was
actually pretty wild but you know what my
i went a little i went a little further than that
and i started like uh the researching into
um what is it src 20 stamps and i had a question for trevor if
if uh if what i'm looking at is equivalent to like an erc 11 55
and there's only 16 500 inscribed am i pretty i'm pretty early on this at
that point right if i was to dabble and i was also curious how much it costs
because this this is essentially like wasting space
right when they fill it in with like d stamp so am i
how much do you know typically how much cost to inscribe a
um an src 20 yeah it's it's definitely more expensive the
reason is because the stamp stuff it kind of burst off
uses operturn which is a different part of like
let's just say like a different variable in the transaction
and it's like the inscription is what's called the witness so you have
like the operturn the witness the operturn allows you to fit 80 bytes
and those 80 bytes are like pay normal fees
versus the inscription has a 75 discount
so um because it was like designed with taproot they wanted to like i don't
even know why they did it but in any case
with the src 20s um i think like there's some
i i know like i saw egora from magic or sorry
sheetfu uh talk about it um they're looking at integrating it i know that
hero integrated stamps in their wallet um i
think that the counterparty i think counterparty is this
is a awesome community with a lot of really intelligent people
a lot of og's who just know a ton about bitcoin and have been like around the
block and it's a really impressive technology
but like it's kind of like um like it needs it needs some work it needs some
love and like i think um like if for example
like more of these like um companies that have like like good funding behind
them like hero like x-verse um like magic
eden like yeah if they start to support uh these things or like alex if they
start to support these things then it could really take off
but um you know i i have like the i do a free stamps giveaway every uh every
twitter spaces in my telegram and i do it for fun because
counterparty has like more features that you can use like you can do
something called the dispenser where like you can just like put a certain
amount listed there and people can just send bitcoin to the address directly
you don't need to use pspts and they'll get it and it's more like
a traditional mint experience out of the box a lot of the stuff that people are
doing for like mints with ordinals it's it's you know there's some
like centralization to it using a server there's not like more custom stuff
that's not easy to set up versus counterparty has a lot of stuff out of
the box it has like a very easy to use decks
it's been around for years um so that's why i do it because it's cool
and it's also cool to play with to educate people like what's going on
there so i would say like if you want to really
like i've learned so much about bitcoin from playing around the counterparty that
has like informed my knowledge and understanding of like
how the space is going to work going forward and like what
potential things people could do um but like a lot of the
like main tech is like pretty old like when we were doing stamps initially it
was like counter wallet which i don't even think
like has been updated in like in like five years or i don't know it's like it's
never been updated like forever uh we use free wallet a lot in exchange so
there's one developer like the one superstar developer j dog
behind exchange which is like the mempool that space for counterparty
the explorer for counterparty he also is developer of free wallet
and he's also a counterparty core dev and he's one developer like
building like several of the major pillars and the ecosystem i think he
also wrote dispensers versus you have like hero where they
have like 40 engineers you know on the on the company and
they also have an explorer they also have a wallet
or you have like you know xverse which just is you know
uh not announced yet but they're they're raising like
they're good they're good on capital same with alex same with a bunch of the
other um gamma uh like just not announced as
well um you know like they have a lot of
funding they have like they have they have
you know half a dozen to a dozen engineers if not more
you know on their team versus like one developer attending a bunch of stuff so
that's kind of the main like risk i think with
with uh src 20s and and stamps but like do you think it's worth it though
like am i wasting my time because i mean i'm not a bitcoin maxi by any means
or this is more like experimental but my head was going to explode
like halfway through and i took a couple advil and came and listened to
leap for a little bit just to get a break
um and like define like worth it like i mean because i mean what is your goal
there's sixteen thousand five hundred inscribed blocks last time i i mean at
least from what i saw and i guess like what i'm trying to say is am i early
enough to where if i was to dabble in this space of this part of the space in
the stance that i could potentially have a higher percent chance to find
a gold mine versus you know everything else i'm doing in
every other market right like am i early enough for that kind of
stuff like over what time horizon i mean
i just would like i guess like a brc 20 am i better off just
showing with brc 20s than dabbling in the stamps which is even more of a
loophole or you know wormhole i mean what i
would do i think generally is like i would
i would definitely get just get some stamps get some src 20s just so you
have that toolkit ready in case like something changes it pops off
but i think like i would like kind of set up that base but i would
probably focus more time on like the brc 20s
like overall but i but i think like you know to be able to like network
and like meet people and get involved and get like your awareness over to what's
going on there so that you have those like tools ready to go because
again like uh chart food sheet food he's been like talking about stamps
like a couple dominoes could happen and like
you know stamps took off like they passed like 10k
in like like two days like you know something like super fast because
like the users are already here like it it took
ordinals you know a full week to get past you know
10k uh and now or actually no sorry like i'm
well the first ordinal was like in december then it went to
and like people inscribed a bunch of stuff then before it went to mainnet
and then um a month and a half almost two months later
february 20th is when it went to mainnet and then
people started inscribing and there was like early february like several weeks
later where it passed like 10k and like stamps in that a couple days
we had cursed inscriptions uh which is like a cool meta
that we had like earlier this week and like one day that went past 10k
so you know maybe the strategy is like to kind of like be
a little bit ahead of the curve and like kind of play some bets that way
because you could kind of like blink and
an opportunity can be over like with how many users uh they're on the space right
now cool that's not your fault man if you don't
mind if i hit you offline with any questions so i don't
go losing money that would be appreciated yeah sure man definitely
well i want to throw it over quickly to fud fud good to see you what's happening
we want lee what do you want you're asking specific questions then you have
come up here just rambling it's his last twitter space bro
wait what look at the title oh okay yeah it is his last one and then
you bring up naveen who's got an annoying voice his co-host for
your last twitter space which is crazy uh but whatever all right so
i i raised my hand and wanted to stay on topic of what the host asked
like 30 minutes ago and that was why would you build anywhere
other than bitcoin you know i think that ultimately comes down to belief and
also yeah i guess your vision for specific blockchains right
um i think we all know that bitcoin can't handle
at this moment unless things change it can't handle
the traffic that is needed for massing option
to tell you the truth i don't know if there is a blockchain that can i know
some are better than others um but i think that just like that
simplistic concept is why people choose to build
elsewhere um granted we know that bitcoin is king
uh as far as price goes um but the reality is
are you in a fucking tornado does it sound like it i'm just at the beach
it's actually not that windy so bad oh well then let me do this here we go
how's that much better you guys know where you are right now
no it's your hoodie you're in my yep you're in my hoodie with me
we're we're all snuggling no circuit um what's that smell it's probably my bo i
haven't showered for a few weeks but this is a reality is just speed
um and quality of what the blockchains can't handle as far as traffic goes
and there's a reality that bitcoin might not be that
for the future we might need something else for mass adoption
if if that's the end goal i know people don't like to hear that
but it's just the truth we need speed we need quantity
and to be able to handle all of this traffic um with mass adoption
so um i think that's why people build elsewhere as far as and
opportunity and also um where their connections are
um it's not saying what i believe personally
but i just think that's the reality of why people are building also not a lot
of people know how to build on bitcoin i sure as hell don't even know what i'm
doing on ethereum so no way i know what i'm doing on bitcoin
so i think so i think a lot of that stuff
well one i agree with you i mean i don't know if bitcoin can handle mass
adoption but to be honest with you i don't know forever
well not ever but i think we're very far from mass adoption
right like it's probably years and years so i don't that might be a
non-issue the other parts so i definitely agree
on how to build on bitcoin either you know with it but that's just an
infrastructure thing right and that changes with time
and the same way like even look at manifold manifold is crazy
like it's when you really think about what manifold is
kind of simple in concept but what it allows people to do and what it actually
provides to the spaces is nuts right like one click deployment like
different tokenomics for your nfts if you want it
burn mechanics this and that they're constantly added adding things to it
the ability to purchase and mint with so many different
currencies and tokens it's nuts and something like that
eventually i think gamma.io is the closest thing we have right now on
bitcoin to a manifold but there's going to be things like
that that just become more popular where it's like one click
brc20 creation one click inscriptions what they it'll be so easy it's just
going to take time when that happens we're going to really
see what the case is because ethereum has a real culture to it
now inscriptions have a culture to it as well but it's new it's a new culture
we're talking just a couple months old ethereum has years and years and years
of culture tons of money tons of nft projects
there's a lot there right i mean we have full fucking conferences with
a million like five ten conferences a year just in the united states big ones
just basically centered around ethereum and and some of those projects so
um i think that in terms of culture ethereum has a huge advantage
but that can change the one thing i've kind of learned to accept with crypto
nfts whatever it might be is that what i know to be true today
can be completely wrong tomorrow and that is scary in a way right things and
things move so quickly here that being said i kind of like what
emblem vault did where you could do ethereum and
ordinals kind of at the same time trevor like so what's what's the
deal with the emblem vault so you could have something be
essentially traded as a 721 but it's also in inscription at the
same time that to me seems like the best scenario
but am i missing something is there something not good about it what's the
deal with emblem vault yeah i would say that like there will
be decentralized bridges that go from bitcoin to every chain
um like tbtc is a is a well-known one i think
there was one called the ran btc book for it
it uh shut down um and there will be several more of these sort of like
decentralized collateral based bridges you can look up
sbtc that's one that i'm like a big advocate for because it's
related to stacks and i think the sbtc one is probably the most
sophisticated because of stacks consensus model
but emblem vault is essentially a bridge that
what it does is it transfers your asset into a wallet
and then it encrypts the private key to that wallet
in an nft on ethereum and so essentially what that's doing is
you're you're trading the private key to a bitcoin wallet
that has um i think i believe it has you know
there's a bit of a like uh centralization issue where it's like
you know i mean emblem vault obviously generates the private key so
you know they as a company i believe have access to it
but no one else can access that private key
and so you know i think if you should have them while people to
go through the some of the nuances of it but um
yeah you're you're trading an ft that if you
go if you put that nft into the emblem vault again you basically get the
private key to the wallet that has that asset so
it's similar to trading assets like it's like saying like hey i
i have a a Porsche in my driveway but i'm
but i'm selling the key like i'm i'm out there like you know
trading the key to the Porsche like i'm not trading you the Porsche but i'm
trading you the key to it so that's kind of like what an emblem vault is and
maybe the Porsche is like parked in a garage at emblem vault
garage or something like that if that makes sense
and um yeah i would comment on like what fuzz i think he made some great
points i definitely don't think that bitcoin
especially l1 l1 will not be like a good choice for a majority of use
cases in fact eventually there will be no
apps on l1 eventually like once the fees get so high
everything will be on other layers like l2s and stuff like that
um where it settles down to um it sells on the bitcoin and those are
very immature right now even like you know the zks and stuff on on
ethereum still have a ways to go in terms of
maturity um you know i mean they're pretty like they're live they're like
they're in production like they're running great but like there's still a
lot of development needed like stacks itself is live and
running really well for two years but there's like more advances needed to make
it and also you know more fees on the
base layer of ethereum are even needed to push more demand to those l2s
so you know i mean but if you look at like
lightning like lightning is actually more scalable than solana i'm not
saying that's like uh to like punch at solana it's because
it's not a block lightning's not a blockchain it's a
it's a messaging it's a peer-to-peer messaging protocol
so you know a peer-to-peer messaging is not a blockchain and so it can be
like it's like comparing you know um like a motorcycle to a car something
like a motorcycle can go like much faster be more nimbler and stuff like that
and that's like what a peer-to-peer network is more like than like a car you
know so you know from scalability just
transactions like lightning is already it still needs
development but it's it's a pretty yeah lightning so what can you explain
because and i don't really understand i understand
at the basic level what lightning is but i want to understand why it's not being
adopted currently it's been built the people building
lightning for years it's been around forever
i've been hearing that lightning is going to scale bitcoin for what seven
years at this point i've been hearing about it six years whatever it might be
why has it not caught in cotton storm so far
because uh fees are not expensive enough on the baseline there's not
enough users in the space as a whole and so
again like scalability is not needed until you have a shit ton of users and
you can't scale anymore like um you know twitter twitter was built
on like the shittiest tech when it started
and you know famously like back in the day like 2010
when you would use like twitter um like it would
there it would like literally go down like if you google like the fail whale
um like there was a very famous like piece of art
that like this artist became famous because she made the fail whale
and you can probably find her on twitter um like it made her career because it was
like a very pleasant like kind of like like 500 you know like you get like a
500 error which is like the server is not working
it would display that like that fail whale now it happened like on a
weekly if not like a few times a week basis on twitter because
tech to tech was so shitty but what happened was
guess what every fucking vc in the world wanted to invest in twitter at
that point because that's bullish like that's bullish
if you can't scale and so nobody was investing
in bitcoin as much before and then when we hit like mempool of like 500 now
resources are coming in now developers are coming in because
those follow demand and those developers build out the
scalability solutions which for bitcoin will be
you know other layers and so the same reason that lightning hasn't been
adopted in a big way is why l2s on ethereum like all the demand
hasn't moved to l2s on ethereum yet because
again there's not enough users and i think the crypto users tend to
be like dcaing into it they're treating more of us as a store of value
and they are you know not trying to like buy coffee
with their with their cryptocurrency and so
we're just not at a place in the market where
um like extreme scalability is needed yet so that's why lightning hasn't been
adopted in my opinion i think it's a pattern that we see
throughout the space i think that's a great answer and
naveen i kind of want to ask you the the same thing really more so just your
opinion on l2s in general do you think because we there's a ton of
them right there's a there's so many else
especially on ethereum there's constantly more being built i even know of a
bunch right now that aren't even released
that will be released in the near future and they'll probably do well
financially in terms of token price or whatever it might be
in terms of adoption i have no clue i mean what are your thoughts on that naveen
yeah it's a really interesting uh situation
you know l2s are um are just they're they're kind of odd things in
a way because on one hand you know i understand
trevor's point you know like okay yeah there's
concrete limitations that we all know about you know with regards to
you know bitcoin l1 and there's there's just you know very clear limitations
um and that's that's fine um and yeah sure you know as as fees go up then you
know people don't have a choice like okay if you want cheap transactions now
you have no choice but to use an l2 but the l2s have a cost you know there's
a real cost there's a huge user experience cost
uh there's a decentralization cost you know
i mean we've talked about it many times but um you know most of the existing l2s
on ethereum are single sequencer so basically they're just like
centralized databases um lightning you know uh creates like a
variety of centralization risks um you know that's like a known
challenge with lightning so it's an interesting set of trade-offs
you know if you're like uh really viewing these blockchains as like
you know high quality truth machines you know like
then you you really want and and you really care about things like
censorship resistance then you really want maximal decentralization
but it's almost impossible to get maximum decentralization when
you start operating with lts that have made different trade-offs
different decisions uh in terms of you know how they operate to achieve you
know performance uh different performance characteristics
so my biggest concern with l2s really comes down to
uh usability you know so now if you're having to
bridge value um you know deal with different underlying chain constraints
like okay this chain has you know a block time of x and you
know a throughput of y this other chain has a block time of z
and a throughput of a or whatever um and now you're trying to like
bridge value accordingly across you know that that becomes really really
challenging um yeah that's why i bet on projects
like layer zero because you know in my opinion you know the
the goal is to ultimately obfuscate all of this away from the consumer
uh but that's really really hard to do and that's going to take
you know a fair amount of time and effort you know to to achieve that
outcome because the consumer doesn't care you know whether something's on zk
sync or optimism or arbitrum like why why would anyone
really care what really matters is where there's liquidity
you know it really matters is where there is you know
the best applications the best content that's what really matters
so i think in the near term l2s are going to suck
uh from a usability standpoint i think they may
always suck from a decentralization standpoint
i know that you know projects like arbitrum have goals to decentralize over
time but we're just really really far from
that right now and it's unclear like when that actually
will happen um and i think you know projects like
layer zero hopefully will help obfuscate a lot of this complexity away
so that we can actually successfully onboard lots more people into the
space that's my opinion on l2s do you think most of
these companies that are even today i mean there's a lot of companies still
developing new l2s there's a there's a bunch of them do you
think they're doing it mostly just to be able to release a token and have
because look i mean even let's say a new l2
that achieves one tenth the scale and success of polygon in a bull
market could be a 10 billion dollar market cap
health cut it in half go conservative five billion
right you're talking about just a small fraction of what the big l2s can reach
in a bull market if you own an l2 and you're a company
that puts it out and you're releasing a token
um whether it's like a gas token a governance token whatever it might be
is is really just the point for them to just make as much money as possible
does it even matter to them or the dc's invested whether or not the l2 gets
well i mean that that's kind of one of the
perverse incentive problems uh in our industry right
so we've talked about this many many times you know traditional startups
average time horizon from first check to liquidity event is over eight years
in crypto you know you can make a smart bet as an investor
and be completely liquid on your investment in under 36 months
um so that's a huge huge difference and and i think you see it you know
evc's tend to be willing to pay a meaningful liquidity premium
um and that's partly what drives the valuation of these things
the other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these valuations are
really kind of fake because there just isn't a lot of liquidity like
you know these these sorry there isn't a lot of float
so these tokens have um something called a fully diluted valuation
and then they have like the actual valuation based on the tokens that are
circulating and a lot of the time what you see is you
see things where there's just a huge amount of tokens
that are just being like held back and you know a really really extreme
example of this is of course psyop right like ben.eath owns like what is it 95%
of the supply so you have like a very very small amount of float
but really what's crazy about it is that it's sort of like all these startups are
becoming publicly traded well before they ever should
and that creates a whole host of problems like a whole host of
challenges um so i think i think there are a lot of
perverse incentives to finance projects that have tokens
and get those tokens out there and pump the tokens because
that creates at bare minimum paper gains for the vcs but
you know in many cases liquid gains because they can they
can pump those tokens to somebody else there's definitely a greater fool
uh kind of theory at work here and so uh yeah i mean in terms of your
question about like why people build l2s
um i mean yeah there's there's definitely a money element to it
you know people want to get rich and there's a get rich quick kind of vibe
about it all um oftentimes like the technical
innovations are really nominal and vast but they sell them they package them as
like these wild innovations but they're really just not
necessarily that valuable it remains to be seen
the other major problem that we've talked about at length too is
field of dreams you know a lot of these protocols are being built
without it being very clear what people are going to do
on the protocol outside of gambling um and so
that's another major challenge because a lot of the technical innovation that
people are purporting to create it's unclear how it's even going to
be used out there um it's it's total field of dreams and
then the protocols have huge amounts of tokens left aside to try to
you know stoke the fires of a developer ecosystem
around their around their protocol i mean a lot of what happens now is an l2
launches and you know you really just you you want to pay whatever cost to get
you know swap to support your protocol and alchemy to support your protocol and
get it listed on a bunch of exchanges and
now you look real um you know are you real who the fuck knows
uh the final thing i'll say is that you know this space is sort of the
the king of vanity metrics you know we we talk about vanity metrics in this
space all the time like things like tvl you know tvl is a vanity metric
because a lot of the tokens are not actually being locked up for very
significant amount of time it's sort of you know let's just go to
what whatever decks or defi thing is paying the highest yield
and then you can kind of like watch the liquidity kind of move around
which is really fascinating so there's lots and lots of challenges with the
whole thing and my sincere hope is that there are
some protocols that i think probably already exist and some that are in
development that will get it right in terms of
solving real problems that developers need solved
number one i think we will get better at obfuscating some of the real challenges
with ux and i think there are teams that are
thinking more long term than just you know my vesting period and and owning
you know 20 percent of an economy which
is batshit crazy if you zoom out and think about it
so i'm on elk so i don't really know too much about alchemy yeah are you
saying that people pay to to be basically listed here i
went to alchemy and they have a list of layer two blockchains
so they have and these are just a few of them polygon
optimism arbitrum stark net which is stark net we don't really talk about
too much and then seller let me know what seller is
then immutable x which i actually like immutable x
metis cartesi eclipse radio canvas connect i mean half of
these i've never even heard of the hell is a canvas connect um and
then in the night looking at other else and you can say add your project so
right at the top it says add your project
and i'm assuming you have to go through some sort of application process there
um alchemy alchemy is an infrastructure company
so what they do is they they run nodes um and they provide developer apis
to make it easier for people to build on top of these like very brittle
distributed databases so um it's very very expensive to run
node infrastructure for a lot of these protocols we've talked about salona at
length right like salona is like notoriously difficult to run nodes for
because you know requires like basically like
miniature supercomputers you know to run nodes for salona
um so a company like alchemy what they do is they effectively
take that cost on and then they provide you know easy to consume
apis for developers uh to build uh dapps and various kinds of
applications and there's a bunch of companies like alchemy out there like
infura is is famous you know owned by consensus
um you know they they provide infrastructure capabilities out there for a
lot of different folks um there's you know is consensus the
most powerful company in the space consensus is the most powerful company in
ethereum yes by far so consensus owns metamask
and they own infura right so consensus is wildly powerful in the world of
ethereum and now consensus has its own l2 forthcoming which is called linea um so
you know place your bets accordingly but you know well gosh you know which which
l2 is going to have the most default access to metamask users well i don't
know you know that's a good question right
so are they gonna is mia gonna have a token i'm assuming it will
i don't know i can't i can't speak to like their plans it's called linea
linea linea so linea is a is a you know zkvm uh you know oriented l2 that that is coming
to existence and is being developed by consensus directly yeah consensus is
basically the open ai of ethereum i mean they just they control everything i mean
so how how is ethereum even decentralized consensus literally owns everything they
own a shit ton of ethereum it's and infura i mean runs everything i
mean it's kind of when you really think about it it's just like a few companies
that kind of control this entire thing uh that's kind of scary that's kind of scary
well i mean you know yeah uh i mean look i can say that the consensus folks are
really really bright and uh you know care but sure i mean you know if you if
you peel back the onion far enough um for many of these protocols
there are a wide range of challenges like this uh out there so uh yeah i mean i think it's
i think i i i personally think it's really hilarious when you talk to an ethereum person
they're like oh yeah the l2s and like the l2 most l2s are just like just centralized databases
like there's nothing decentralized about arbitrum or you know zksync or optimism at this point
in time it's kind of crazy uh so the whole thing is is very very humorous
and we talked just about like nfts and what's pumping and and and all this stuff i mean so
a leap if you want to do something if you want to look at something really hilarious go look at the
tokenomics for a lot of these protocols the the tokenomics are just like outrageous so like for
example uh avalanche it's like you know if you go on coin gecko it's like uh you know various
ten percent of the entire economy went to the team ten percent right but all of the various
rounds of financing they did they sold another at least twenty percent if not twenty five percent
right like fifty percent of the economy is for staking rewards right so it's just really kind
of amazing when you zoom out and think about like how many tokens are actually locked up like what
is the float for most of these protocols i mean if you look at some of the other ones like look at
you know for example optimism tokenomics like you know you can pull that up on coin gecko too so
similar situation it's like ecosystem fund twenty five percent investors seventeen percent
core contributors which is the team nineteen percent airdrop nineteen percent right so it's
like what you know people don't talk about it like people just don't people just don't pay
attention because everyone's getting too rich to even like worry about it right but where's
the mean where's so where's the money coming from though is it is it literally just retail
trevor we're going to jump to here in a second but we're if they're giving all of this to the team all
the team deserves obviously they need to get compensated for their work and a lot of times
it is with tokens um that's a big part of the incentive and then the vcs they're raising
whatever it might be airdrops you know it's a standard way of like marketing and rewarding
people for participating yeah yeah but think about think about this way so the fdb of optimism
is seven billion dollars okay that's the fully diluted valuation if all the tokens were on the
market and the price was you know what it is today right so what that means is you know the investors
at seventeen percent you know made what you know want over over a billion dollars you know it's
like that's the value of their tokens you know so core core contributors is like 1.3 1.4 billion
dollars you know for a for a project that has like how much how much actual activity is happening
on optimism right now i mean probably not very much right i mean let's be honest avalanche is
hilarious right in the last 30 days it's like what eight thousand wallets or something like that
bought an nft you know and the f and the fdb of avalanche is over 10 billion dollars
so the the team is sitting on a billion dollars worth of tokens and in the last 30 days it's
like 8 000 wallets bought an nft on avalanche just just talking about nfts so that's that's the
problem is this the float for a lot of these protocols tends to be pretty small so you know
there just isn't a lot of tokens out there now avalanche is better than others i mean avalanche
actually has like a pretty significant amount of their tokens like floating around it's been around
for a while but some of these other protocols there just isn't a lot of circulating supply
does that make sense it does a final question and then we'll jump to trevor is when the teams are
building these l2s and i mean i've never been part of a team that's like building something like that
so i have no idea how it works how much of the difficulty in getting it to be successful getting
the price up selling it to be whatever it is how much of the difficulty comes from a technical
aspect like engineers in the lab cooking and how much of it is more so just the business side
like getting vcs that are going to want to purchase into it like the marketing whatever whatever which
which part is more difficult well it's all difficult it's all difficult there's like regulatory stuff
that's really difficult engineering can be super duper difficult for sure you know and then yeah
the hype train you know all the narratives you know there's so many narratives floating around
oh my god you know it's like oh well you know we're using this like special you know type of
you know uh encryption or you know whatever whatever it is you know different like flavors
of you know virtual machine and oh we're using zero knowledge things here and there like you
know there's there's all kinds of like complexity around this like building distributed database
stuff is not easy so i would never say but the the technical side of this stuff is is easy it's
just not but yeah there's there's a lot of hype there's a lot of selling the future going
on for sure i mean there's definitely a lot of selling the future going on and and think
about it if some of these things became a real economy like you know several hundred billion
dollar market cap then yeah a lot of people got crazy crazy crazy rich you know like unbelievably
rich for sure you know i mean it's it's kind of madness in that way so what about layer threes
layer threes i mean i i mean i don't even know what that would mean but i mean i i i know
about layer zeros they will so like layer threes um like they expand the capability of
blockchain by implementing customized scaling so it's like and how much of that is just marketing
like what was that even i mean i don't i don't even know what that means customized like what
what does that even mean like that's just bullshit no that's the problem like a lot of a lot of the
marketing lingo out there is just garbage it doesn't really mean anything like who who needs
that why do they need that like what is give me an example of why and then what's really funny is
sometimes you go sit down with your entrepreneurs and you're like okay so tell me exactly johnny like
why does someone need that and about this so vitalik was talking about how layer threes could
like given the architecture optimize and improve networks and all this like he wrote about it i have
no idea what the hell he was talking about i tried to read it vitalik writes about a lot of things
a lot of things and not all those things make a lot of sense not all of those things are really
relevant or necessary some of them are many of them aren't and that's just the nature of the
thing he's he's like a creative you know inventor right so he's inventing things now is are all
those things needed i don't know you know that well that remains to be seen but um yeah i mean
it's going to be very interesting to see what how the ethereum ecosystem continues to evolve
you know like are these are these l2s essentially like a vampire attacking ethereum who remains to
be seen like i don't know is it is it good for ethereum for a huge amount of value to float from
the base layer to l2s and what happens when ethereum itself adds supposedly add sharding
and scalability stuff you know at a base layer right like what then what was the purpose of the l2s
right there's a there's a there's a million questions like this that are like out there
in the ethereum world that no ethereum person can actually give a concrete answer for
so it's all just a bunch of like well i've got my bags and they need to protect my bags
i mean now we're just getting into fucking like inception territory bro i don't know what to
tell you about that i mean you could you can talk about layer 69s no that was gonna be my next
joke i was gonna say richard heart is proposing layer 69 um anyway uh we'll move on from that
but layer threes are apparently a hypothetically potential thing and i think starkware is working
on them i guess so i don't know i mean apparently it's for they said layer two is for trusted
solutions and layer three is for untrusted solutions i don't know what the hell that means
i mean dude that's the problem like if you go sit down with them and you ask them like
explain to me exactly how and why this is like useful wait naveen this is what it says it says
a layer three could solve some of the problems that l2s have by essentially acting effectively
as a layer two inside of a zk roll up inside of another zk roll up that would greatly reduce the
cost by nearly 20 times meaning transactions can be sent incredibly fast i don't know what
a zk inside of another zk is that anyway um yeah there's the problem is again like
to me okay so another another thing is there's uh there used to be this whole thing what do
they call it it was called like phd chains you know where it's like oh we've got a bunch of
scientists and the scientists are going to build like this the best chain in the world and
we've got more phds on the team than anybody that used to be a whole like story arc that was a whole
narrative for a while for a lot of like projects out there how many phds do you have on your team
you know working on solving all these like grand problems and again the problem is is like what
is the fucking point like what what does that do what is the functional value of that and and
a lot of these things are completely filled of dreams you know i go back to that old analogy
that i gave i gave you before it's like well if amazon woke up one day you know at the beginning
of amazon if jeff bezos was like oh yeah we're going to start by building aws because you know
i eventually imagine that amazon is going to be this like globally distributed thing it's going
to be huge dude amazon would have fucking failed he wouldn't have even known what to build
right like he built amazon first and then he built the infrastructure after that
you know so a lot of what's happening now is okay let's build the infrastructure we think
people need performance okay yeah that's true people need performance on on a meaningful
level i i think we can all agree to that okay great so we're going to have like maximal
performance okay now people need you know a bunch of other all these other like various things
that you know we're building in this space there's like a bunch of things and it remains
to be seen for some of these things like it'll be very interesting to see like what what features
actually get used what features end up getting deprecated you know that's going to be a very
interesting you know conversation over time i'm reading something and i'm reading something here
and uh if anybody knows on stage it's about zk backflips you know what this is
apparently it's like the it's effectively like the opposite of a zk somersault i know the roll-up
yeah okay roll-up yeah but these are the backflips and apparently the way like this is
especially it's like a special type of chain used for tracking gymnasts on chain
no that one that one didn't hit leave
that one didn't hit leave this has made that one up all right we're going over to trevor
trevor look i can't i'm shooting from the three i i'm not everyone's gonna miss right now everyone's
gonna hit uh we're going to trevor trevor i appreciate the patience um what do you i mean
what do you think about this no leap i appreciate you uh shooting your shot of that joke and
you know face planning we all got to do that once in a while i mean naveen just dropped a ton
of bombs man that was a really great um uh everything you said naveen gotta head off to you
um and i um i wanted to poke at a couple of things um you know i i by and large agree with naveen and
i think that uh actually i agree with like 99 where he said um about everything and i want to
poke at a couple things um i think naveen you gave a great kind of almost a great pitch for
salah and talking about like the ux challenges with l2s and the centralization problems and
i totally i totally agree with those i think that the things that i would maybe like push back on or
kind of like play devil's advocate with is that i think i think that most people in the future
will enter from the l2 i don't think that they're going to enter from the l1 and then go to the l2
and i think that will kind of solve a lot of the usability problems let's say because you know
going over some of these bridges is like is uh quite quite uh um you know it's it's not that
great right and then from in terms of like the centralization uh thing i totally agree like i'm
pretty skeptical on on zk rollups for a couple of reasons one being the single sequencers and that
you know sequencer controlling the multisig wallet and i you know maybe there's some answers from the
smart people out there who can explain like how that's like really reliable um but also um
there's also like concrete uh space limitations to uh zk that you wouldn't have with
a side chain and i mean we've seen poly polygon is a side chain but it's like the most successful l2
on on ethereum part of that is like the timing and like the the first mover advantage
and they're gonna they're they're segwaying over into offering you know the additional zk
functionality so that's also kind of proves the point of like like the less like the the sub
part technology on paper can like you know gain enough of a lead and advantage and resources and
network effects that it can like improve over time um and i and i think that's kind of the thesis
as well for for building on bitcoin as well that just the network effect you know you mentioned
liquidity um being a user base being like really huge you know we talked about how
consumers don't really mind as much you know uh what blockchain it is but um that's that's
totally not that's totally that's not hard isn't true as well like collectors do want to
know that the thing they're collecting has it as a market for it right and the in addition to liking
it and the artists themselves they want to actually you know go where the liquidity is
right so this idea like the blockchain doesn't matter isn't a great um i think falls apart a
little bit um when it comes to um like sidechains specifically like i'm wondering if you know
because the big benefit of a zk is that you have the same level of immutability because every
block is like fully encapsulated on the l1 to where i assume you could reconstruct the l2 with
the data from the l1 i'm not sure if that's that's fully true but there is a sort of size
limitation to what you can do on a zk which i think you know in the case of bitcoin like
having a zk that has you know four megabytes or less would not really move the needle that much
i kind of like it he's like outside i can hear some birds singing like it sounds like r2d2
yeah it sounds like he's in an he's outside i'm glad you're out for a walk
fud you know stay healthy out there you know i haven't been outside enough
um and then um you know the single sequencer right so the like a sidechain for example can have
its own set of miners this is i'm not like i'm not worried about the decentralization aspects
of other layers or l2s because the whole point of lower fees is that you're gonna like need
less decentralization right so the lower the lower the fees like those are there for low
value transactions the problem is that people are not really making low value transactions
in technology yet and so the decentralization aspect of it is perfectly logical to me that
there will be layers on top of bitcoin that have less decentralization and the fees will match sort
of like the parity of the value of the transaction and you know that will match the
decentralization right those three things will be in tandem the the value of the transaction
the decentralization of the network and the fees of the network and so bitcoin will
still be even if like there's no applications on bitcoin because the fees are too high people
will still use it to like you know sort of like an inter-banking system and this is like
some that satoshi talked about as well where it's like moving a billion dollars you know
will still be done on the l1 and that's a bit of an elegant solution right because
those three things match up as opposed to trying to create like one network that can make everybody
happy um you know uh doesn't necessarily makes as much sense but with like uh like back to
the side chains point there are design there are designs of side chains where you can get not
like a one-for-one immutability benefit or where every block is as secure because it's
just like recorded right there but you could have like a type of finality where after a certain
number of blocks like the immutability is the same so like you could have like 150 blocks
later like it's equally as immutable to the base layer and you could have a more decentralized
bridge than a um a multi-sig like controlled by a single sequencer because if the side chain has
its own blockchain consensus mechanism and there's enough demand for it it can kind of
i guess bootstrap off of the security of the base layer um so that's kind of what i was thinking
about i was also thinking about how um i forget what you're talking about naveen what we may
think of this but you're talking about the idea of like a common a common misconception
innovation is that power users oh yeah amazon web services it's like amazon web services didn't
make faster servers right what they really made was fractionalized servers right they made it so that
you can buy a piece of a server uh you know for much less like so you could get going with like a
very slow small like fraction of a server and then there was like very easy to scale up and
they didn't make faster servers but the problem is that like a lot of people in innovation try
to make more powerful tools instead of trying to actually solve like some key problems like
even in the education space there's this like saying that the that um in the western market
we're always trying to make higher quality of education but like the mass majority of the
world just wants access to education so the point is not to make something like higher quality
necessarily but a lot of innovation is improved by increasing access to people and that's kind of
like the core innovator's dilemma where it's like you know blackberry spent like so many years
making like a better keyboard and like you know like faster like email but they didn't think
about like how can we just make like an easier to use you know like going kind of going in a
different direction and so you know when it comes to like highly scalable l1s oh and I mean
you also dropped a huge bomb about like people don't realize how much of this industry is just
built on extracting value from the idea of like creating new l1s like exchanges charge a million
dollars to list a token right uh even like media companies in the space like in the in the crypto
space make way more money than any other industry because they charge so much money for promotion
because all these different industries like fire blocks for example you know you talked about
infura and alchemy fire blocks if you're not an evm based chain it'll cost you like uh 10
million dollars to integrate like a novel blockchain if they'll even consider it right
because they just roll out evm chain after evm chain which is why evm despite being not like it's
the first you know smart country language which i gotta give it props but it's sort of like you
know the original c programming language and people say you know which is one of the first
program languages people say like that if you know c you'll like never you'll never have
a shortage of jobs to do because maintaining uh code base written in c is like so difficult
there's so many bugs that it can that like you can never hire enough engineers to like maintain it
whereas like there's newer program languages like rust which like are much more easy to maintain
and safer and require less engineers because there's less bugs but the irony is that if you
want like job stability you want to like learn the program languages that suck right and so
with evm evm has created such a network effect where every chain is evm uh enabled not just
like for developers i think it's not as big of a switching class to learn something new
but for these they're still machines to people that would not know um i just want to put it out
yeah evm sensor ethereum virtual machine and so all the other l ones are evm based because
like fire blocks and exchanges and custody providers and the rest of the technology
infrastructure providers have like such a low cost to uh implement it right so they can just like fire
blocks just does like you know 20 evm chains a month or something like that and so i think that
like this l one race like the constant creation of new l ones is a lot harder because
the narrative is kind of passed and like that sort of like ability to create a token on l one
and then like you'll be like now you have to pay millions of dollars or you have to go with evm
like sort of the the market incentives are so stacked against those players now because
of how the market has created business models around extracting value from from that attempt
that i think it would be um like it's really tough to play that game right now and i think
with i don't know that we're going to have uh like a big bang onboarding event in the space
like ever i think that you know we've seen amazon launched an empty marketplace we've seen so many
of these corporates integrate different chains amazon you know ads integrate with avalanche a
million times and it didn't move the needle at all right like we did not see any like massive
spike in volume when amazon launched an empty marketplace um everybody talks about the hype
before it launches and it doesn't did amazon release is it out is it not i see this is
the problem we have no fuck we don't even know if it's out or not like that's a that's probably
a problem in it of itself it's not oh yeah okay it's not at least not public yeah so just like two
things so trevor totally appreciate you brother um you know love love love how your brain works
and um you know a lot lots to agree with you um on um the one point i did make uh that i just
want to call out was uh so that the omni chain thesis is that uh you know if tokens uh leverage
you know some of the standards that companies like organizations or groups like layer zero producing
then you know it does become a lot easier to burn on chain a and sort of reconstitute on chain b
um and and do that you know like easily and uh and that that can have tremendous value because then
um you know the the idea that you're kind of landlocked to a chain where there may not
be like as much liquidity or as much like demand for asset type a or b or c or whatever the asset
type is means you can just like migrate to where the liquidity is where the action is
and i think that is really interesting and you know that can ultimately be effectively
automated right like you could create you can imagine you know for example a game the game has
a bunch of assets that you know their their home chain if you will may might be say polygon or
avalanche but it turns out that like the most happened in marketplace is like somewhere else
and you know you you know you go to list and it just auto list there you know it doesn't it just
does it for you so you can imagine over time that like a lot of this stuff just becomes
obfuscated and i i don't know that people are gonna care like where things are i mean you know
you made the point about collectors and and and look that might be true that might be like analogous
to oh wow this print was printed on like this very special type of you know archival paper and i
care about that and that's true you might go okay well gosh i really care about his you know
if leonidas was up here and talking about like og bitcoin things or og ethereum things then
sure you know that that narrative has value i think to a certain like contingent of users
but i think for the majority vast majority of people they're just not going to give a crap
just like most people don't care like what kind of database powers a website
it's not like you ever visit a website and say oh well gosh you know i really love that you
use postgres you know to build this thing or oh no i mean i wish you would have used
my sequel like nobody does that because nobody really gives a shit so i think at the end of
the day like all this does ultimately become obfuscated i hear you loud and clear like
decentralization ultimately is a spectrum that's fair um and yeah the only thing that i really
hope for is i wish more people were working on privacy uh you know oriented tech you know
all this stuff is so surveillance oriented it's really disheartening and then you know the evm
thing is really kind of funny you know because you're right like in the current moment in time
it has reached you know of some form of escape velocity but the overall number of users is
still so small that's something new can absolutely pop up right like we are not anyone who believes
that like evm is going to be the de facto winner you know over time is just not a student of
history you know and i'm like that's just my opinion you know i think like there's plenty
of examples of scenarios and things that you know uh where someone thought it was going to be like the
winner over the long haul and then something new just came out and supplanted it so uh so i think
that's entirely possible in our space too well trevor throw it to you i just want to read this
one sentence that i just think it's interesting i was uh and then we'll go to the rest of the
hands as well appreciate everybody's patience i was just looking at like new l1s that are coming
out in 2023 or just like newer projects whatever it is because there's a lot of stuff out there we
don't only talk about and one of them that i i'm not i don't know anything about it but it's called
shardium it's like ethereum but it's like shard shardium listen listen to the description from the
website it says shardium is an ebm compatible smart contract layer one blockchain on which
decentralized applications can be deployed seamlessly it's a dynamically sharded network
with infinite scalability true decentralization and solid security what the hell does that even mean
i think there's the most buzzwords in one sentence i've ever seen in my entire life so just
i don't know there's so much out there i'm gonna throw it to you trevor and then we'll jump over
to the hands yeah naveen you made some great points i definitely don't think evm will
continue to have the same dominance that it has because i think um and i think even on
on evm i think that people and i hope that people will kind of move away from using
solidity just like you know people moved away from using javascript they write in typescript instead
as like a as a as a as a way to write safer code you know like viper is a programming language
on evm that's that's decidable and you know better in many ways um but i think like
the issue is just the industry is has a lot of incentives to prevent that it has like probably
the biggest like the evm has one of the biggest network effects of anything because all of the
exchanges all of the infrastructure providers and and etc i think that the like the switching cost
the developer is like the least the the smallest switching cost when it comes to evm and then your
your point about like all these things being obfuscated away i've always i've always agreed
with that but i'm starting to like question that a bunch because i think that the relationship
between a user and a website and a server is very different than the than the relationship between
a user and a cryptocurrency and an ecosystem and a network and the protocol and the different
applications and so i do think like maybe eventually we'll get there but i think
it's going to be a very slow and gradual obfuscation that may take a very long time and
in that time like i don't think like i think the network effects of people caring about it
are going to prevent like that from being like you know like i don't think that people will just
like um not interface in the way they do today that like sure you're gonna like you'll probably
play a video game and you'll probably maybe it'll have like the square enix blockchain or like the
nintendo blockchain and you're not going to care but i don't think that those will get like the
the network effect of other applications and the interoperability like i love the thing about
the like omni chain you know i don't know a ton about it i'd love to learn more about that
and like layer zero but i think that there can also be other like bridge designs where
the existing like biggest network effects can just connect together with like like decentralized
bridges that are you know to go not to like create a new ecosystem like necessarily like cosmos where
everything is like interoperability but we're starting from zero but like just there's a lot
of just to build a bridge between ethereum and bitcoin for example um so those are some thoughts
i had like i i i definitely agree with like the end user like the late majority are not going
to care about like the server essentially but i do think the relationship between
the user and the website and the server is very different in this industry it's like a different
type of relationship that where you're not necessarily interacting with like a single
website in the server you're like interacting with a protocol in an ecosystem yeah so just
really quick on that i i feel you i totally feel you i just look at it and go well gosh on
the internet you know there's a lot of protocols i use every day every day of my life i'm using TCPIP
you know i even periodically use FTP you know like i'm using SMTP you know all the time like
you know there's like a whole host of protocols that people are using that like they don't even
know that they're using i mean the most common protocol that people know that they probably use
is HTTP uh because you know everyone sits in front of a web browser all day so i think um
what i would say is that i think i don't believe that it's really all that different and we we may
agree to disagree here and that's perfectly okay um but in my opinion at the end of the day like
we've got you know several hundred people in this you know room uh talking about this kind
of stuff at you know it's now almost midnight where i am central time uh that's not like normal
that's not like an everyday person's not going to care about really any of this stuff like the
average person has far other far more concerns like other concerns than anything related to the
underlying technology literally at all and i i just think that you know in the interest of meeting
users where they are you know there's a reason why users uh you know lean into convenience you
know there's a reason why people lean into dopamine heavy user experience you know there's
a reason why tick tock is as successful as it is and it's not because people are paying attention
to any element or dimension of the technology that tick tock employs they care about the fact
that tick tock is really fun and tick tock creates really great content it it surfaces really funny
and hilarious and interesting content for you that you just can't really find anywhere else
uh it gets to know you you know whether that's good or bad is a separate conversation but it
kind of gets to know you and it it serves content that is more relevant to you as a person
um you know etc etc like that's that's what the average person cares about and i don't think that
the relationship that you're um that you may be imagining is real like i just don't think it's
real i think it's real for all of us in this channel in this room um and i think it's real
for people who are like really native to crypto uh but i don't think it's real for essentially
anybody else and i think that you know the other thing i'll say is um another thing that's
really important to note is that the underlying protocol itself cannot deliver attention or deliver
eyeballs you know that's why you have a lot of protocols out there that write large checks
you know they write checks uh to entrepreneurs to build on top of them because they they don't
really have much else to offer and so i think when you when you mentioned for example like nintendo
chain or square enix chain or whatever it is the thing that's fascinating about that is well
those companies at least have users those companies at least have eyeballs those companies
at least have attention and they can offer that on this level of platter there's a bajillion examples
of of you know platforms out there that developers will spend a lot of time and effort building
for simply because it gives them access to a user base you know if you build something for
ethereum there is no guarantee you're going to get a user base there's no guarantee you're going
to get any any marketing through your thing whatsoever you have to go do that all by yourself
and the same is true for every single protocol out there um and and that's a problem that's a real
problem in terms of like bootstrapping ecosystems the only thing you really have to offer developers
is money that's really the only thing you have and ideally pre-built infrastructure you have you
have making it easy for developers that's one thing you have to offer and you have money right
that's essentially it so i think there's lots of interesting you know form factors that will
come into existence that perhaps change that paradigm and those protocols and and related
you know uh you know tech stacks and and languages etc um may have a shot as a result you know because
that's just like a different thing that we have today in our field of dreams crypto universe that
we currently all play in so i i'm this is just so random i was looking at algorand and uh
also look at fudd's post that he put at the top is it out of respect for the space i'm
going to step down i don't know three-fourths of the word being used my iq is smaller than the
price of salona so uh i mean i'm not gonna lie trevor naveen most i have no idea what yeah let me
let me just put a bow on this and like i try to close it out like um naveen uh great great points
i mean i think the underlying the underlying point that i was trying to make was uh more about
like the transition and pace and what how that's impacted by the network effects like the ability
for something new to obviously displace like the main networks that we have today and so
you know i think you're i think you're right about some of the points you made about um
obviously i believe the end users don't care about the technology and like there's two other
people in the space but you know we're very small group of people but um you know i think
now that i know you're an alternative l1 maxi would be good to have this debate you know as
i'm kind of an l2 maxi you know we can have that debate later so cheers well i'm an l3 maxi so we
can have that debate later also algorand has done 16 000 in nft trading volume in the past week
i mean what the fuck is going on here like this is i mean i promise like algorand was never that
big for nfts but i promise you there was a point where a lot it was a lot more money
being transacted for nfts there i mean i couldn't i don't know if these numbers are
wrong but i mean and also the price of algorand is 14 cents now i never thought that it would
go that low i know we don't talk as much about algorand but at one point i felt like it was
a serious competitor and it could have been like really really big so i don't know i don't know
but also the name of the trending the featured collection on their biggest nft marketplace is
called shitty kitties third litter so maybe maybe they just need better names for their collections
okay we're gonna go to zico dude i'm not i really am not making this up go to algo xnft.com and just
look at what the hell they have going on over there what is this raptor eyes but anyway okay
we're gonna go to zico zico what's happening hey what's up what's up so um this might sound a
little trite right but anytime i ever hear somebody say what most people want or care about
i always uh i don't know i guess i uh i feel a certain type of way about that because i don't
know most people and i have no idea what most people want or or what they need actually i mean
i think what it comes down to is that people care about things when it affects them personally
right now and where are we in this cycle i think there were like we're still so early in this
like you can't can't tell me that like we're not in the early adoption phase so you know as far as
like what most people what most people want or care about i don't know you know i think that
we kind of have a an opportunity to design things in a way and you know i'm basically talking about
user experience here right i mean we've talked a lot of what we're all nerds in the space but
you know talking about like the on the um on the technical side of it i think that there's
there's still so much room for user experience to improve as well and um you know i'll just say this
like the reason why i'm here right the reason why i brought into crypto in the first place
is because for the first time ever we have incentives that combine self-interest with
collective benefit and i i don't know if that is what the average person is going to care about
uh when crypto comes up and and um whether or not that's going to appeal to them i do think
that even if they don't think about it in those terms directly i i still think that that is
something that people are going to care about you know taking more of a global perspective
rather than just you know being in the united states you think about like all the ways that
crypto has already benefited people outside of the united states throughout the rest of the
north america let's just say that like um especially in in places like asia the middle east uh africa
south america i mean you know there's people that are benefiting from these things where
that there was no other option and even in the united states i think that this is an
alternative to the financial system that for a long time hasn't really been working out for a
lot of people so you know we can like go into the weeds and stuff and talk about like all the
technical sides of it and and where we're at but i think the bigger picture is important to to
always keep in mind and um and i know it's kind of funny too like cover was saying like i didn't
know if the amazon marketplace is out no it's not it's not out but like i don't i don't think
that it's going to make too much of a dent i think especially right now considering that it's
still a bear market um i guess my question is like i'm wondering like what do people expect
to happen when like when amazon launches right not just like specifically amazon but
people seem to have like expectations built in to like um some event happening and then the outcome
that that results from it you know like uh i don't know i can't think of other examples but
maybe a funny one is like people were thinking that dogecoin was going to pump yesterday because
elon mentioned it on a space with ron de santis and it's like that that's what i mean when i say
like people have expectations built in that they don't uh that leah like if you really think about
it why would that do anything right um amazon may be a different story um i'm gonna go on a little
bit of a rant here so i'll try to try to uh to wrap it up i'll just i'll just repeat what i said
about incentives that combine self-interest with collective benefit i think that that if
if that could be like the bigger picture maybe not that maybe it's not those words exactly
that appeal to people but i think when people only care about things when it affects them personally
and i think that that could apply to so many people and that's potentially how we you know
bring in the next million or plus or so users so i'll wrap it up there thanks zico appreciate
you also another random fact about algorand there were six thousand dollars in nft trading volume
in the past 24 hours it's dead literally dead give it up um also it's just i'm looking through
the numbers of a lot of these different chains too like ethereum still gets volume ordinal bitcoin
salona all this stuff but dude what like what's happening with cardano nfts what about all these
other chains are all these other chains essentially screwed for nfts that's something i've been thinking
about as well are they done i don't check out the algorand nfts they really care about like any nfts
really on most chains but they were pumping algorand ads all over boston when tucker carlson stole
my phone there about a month back um non-stop algorand ads in td garden so something's going on
they'll be bumping soon yeah they're bumping something um okay well look we'll go with the
hands here before we do i'm going to reset the space appreciate everybody for popping out tonight
if you're enjoying anything about the conversation click the button in the bottom right hand corner
show us some love likes comments retweets the best way to support the space i'm looking at
the latest data of cardano nft market so it says in the past 24 hours there were 1800 trades
and i mean i'm trying to see the the dollar amount of the volume so it's 372,000
ada traded in the past 24 hours i don't know what what the price of cardano is but that seems like a
decent amount maybe i'm wrong um we'll go to i have no idea what the price of cardano is probably
like two cents we're going to click click what's happening oh not much uh enjoying the conversation
um two things i guess uh the first being i don't think uh i mean even if even if there's
like one chain or two chains that like kind of you know cover 90 of everyone's needs um i'm still
kind of bullish on just alt you know alternative chains in general i mean you guys know me i love
me some tezos um i don't think that uh you know i i think there's there's always gonna be a desire
for something that's not like mainstream i think it's because that in that in and of itself is kind
of like a form of decentralization too like you don't ever truly want to put all your eggs into
one basket my take on that um but i was kind of curious trevor if you could maybe expound on
your idea of uh when you were talking about l2s you mentioned you know that they should have
like lower value transactions um i'm which is an interesting take uh because that's not i don't know
that's not like a point of view i've heard before can you uh maybe go dig a little deeper into that
um i'm because to me there's nothing the fact that like someone paid more to complete a transaction
doesn't necessarily in my mind like uh give that more value you know how many how many
shitty transactions have we all made with crazy gas prices on eath right like i don't know um but
i think i kind of walked in on the middle of that part of the conversation yo clique
what's up was good i'm sorry relief
love island is back baby we are live i wish the evil plan was back
yeah clique i'm i'm happy to answer that i mean you give the example of like spending a lot of
money on gas on ethereum and when i say high value transaction what i mean is that it's valuable to
you in a subjective way either that you think that that's going to make you like more money than the
trade it's just kind of like a free market like way of looking at it's like you're paying for
something when you pay those high gas fees so you know with with bitcoin it's like people perceive
bitcoin and you know we can only we can only like we can't objectively see the world we can
only look at like the numbers and the data and research it and like listen to like different
arguments about it but well we can't objectively know like even if we're gonna walk outside of our
door and like be hit by a car right like our our minds you know don't have an objective look
at reality so it's really about perceived value in the free market where you know you're only
gonna make um like the the gas fees on bitcoin the reason ordinals is like so um taking off so
much is because people see value in the decentralization and in liquidity and network
effect and um eventually like if bitcoin keeps growing and more people uh come to it it becomes
more decentralized um kind of the flywheel that bitcoin has now where it's like more people come
to it they become evangelists then you know the price goes up more people minded it becomes more
decentralized and then you know what the the value of the token is kind of proportional to
the security guarantees that you have in holding the currency right so um i've always thought that
the inherent utility of bitcoin is like the number of computers on the network
right so you know the more decentralized it is the more computers on the network the more
like inherent value like the the currency has and it's it's a combination of things including
like the number of users and holders and the um what's going on the fiat world and things
like that um but the point being that with like i consider i consider um i use the word l2 very
generally because i don't really like the fact that like uh zk rollups have like claimed the word l2
for themselves like that that's like you know somehow they own that word they can define i
just and i usually use the word layers to probably mean like side chains um zk rollups and potentially
other designs i mean if we want to be really purist like lightning would be maybe the purest
form of an l2 on bitcoin because it doesn't add any functionality it just extends the capability
of the base layer right so it just you can do everything everything you own lightning is like
an extension or scalability factor of like the existing functionality base layer although now
with ordinals i mean with ordinals okay we can get really into the weeds here if we want to
keep going but i'll try to avoid it um you know so the whole point of having an l2 or side chain
is that it's functionally almost like starting an alternative l1 but it can actually but through
its design and interoperability with another blockchain that it has some type of additional
security benefits so with the example of stacks i'll speak to that since i'm more familiar with it
and on an in-depth level um you know it records its data directly to bitcoin right so you know you
can't if if uh bitcoin forks stacks also forks if um if you want to 51 attack uh stacks you need
to at some point you need to 51 attack bitcoin right and so what it allows you to do is that in
that initial bootstrapping phase when you kind of have a chicken and egg problem creating a new
blockchain where you need to have um you know uh nodes to you need to have nodes and miners to
be secure and for to have nodes and miners you have to have a token that's valuable that they
want to mine and to have a token that's valuable that they want to mine you'd have users you have
like a multi-sided you know chicken and egg problem and so you can kind of bootstrap if
you can if you can benefit from the security of an existing blockchain through a side chain or
the same way that that l2s are zk rollups do this by just putting all the data into um a block instead
of a a hash of the data like like stacks does um you know you can you can essentially skip from
like step one to step two you know you can kind of take taking a shortcut so essentially makes
it easier to skip that like the most challenging phase of getting off the ground which a net
result of that is saving like hundreds of millions of dollars of investment right so
to get like that initial like off the ground is probably you know you need to raise a lot of
money as we've been talking about to be able to pay exchanges to list your token to be able to
get infrastructure to invest with you and to be able to um like secure the network by by
providing incentives for miners um and so the the point of the original question which was
like people going to other layers for lower value transactions um you know again i think
it's it goes back to the blockchain trilemma right like solana is so scalable because it's
less decentralized and so that scalability represents itself in the form of of lower uh gas fees right
and obviously faster confirmation times and so people are going to like if you have a billion
dollars you're going to really want to have that be on a really really decentralized chain you're not
going to want to have that be on a chain um you know where let's say you even on the theorem we're
talking about how consensus owns infura they own metamask you know that they that this is like the
or if it's a proof of stake network and you have you know investors and a foundation controlling
you know more than a third of the token supply where they can pick you know the validators
essentially right now they may have skin in the game but if you have a billion dollars at some
point you know there's there's different types of attacks um you know in in bitcoin like there's
the idea of like a minor a minor exit scam where it's like hey it's like a fine it's like a final
heist or it's like you you see people who like build up on twitter they build up like a
reputation they're undocked and they do this and then they finally have like one big bang exit
right where they're just going to like rug for enough money that they can um that they can that
all that investment that they did was worth it right so if you if you have a lot of um money
invested in a specific asset you just want to have as much control or you want other you
won't have any single person that has the potential to to rug you and so um but if you like want to
make like low value transactions then you're going to start to prioritize speed you're going to
start to prioritize low cost if you're buying coffee you don't want to pay you know twenty
dollars for it and you also like if like for some reason you know like i ordered like
i ordered uber eats and it never came and then like you know uh but it was just like 20 bucks
you know so i don't really care it's like forget it but if like i send a billion dollars and it never
gets confirmed it's gone like i'm i'm gonna be really screwed so that's what i mean well i'm
calling uber eats and getting my getting my money back don't show up though right like
you still got to eat yeah of course i don't know where i'm going with that analogy i just
need yeah but you know i would definitely still complain you get my idea like you don't need
that much decentralization if you're just buying a coffee but if you're sending a billion dollars
you do and you're willing to pay for that like assurance that makes sense so i've gotten a
couple dms about this and i don't know how to feel i've gotten a bunch of dms about this
where people are DMing me they said we don't know what the fuck's being talked about
and i i don't even know what to say so you know what we're going to do we're going to
read a book lead this ain't that complicated it's a learning hub well i mean so here's the thing
the thing about crypto is nobody actually cares about crypto what do we have to buy
when do we buy it and how do we get a loud list secondly it's value utilization it's content
no crypto crypto is worthless um so look do doquan jail stay extended despite already
posting huge bail i mean we could dunk on doquan for like an hour if you all want
but before we do we're going to go to kickflip first kickflips had their hand up for a minute here
kickflip appreciate the patience what's going on yo what's up bro thank you for respecting the
hand and respecting the the raising of the hand i just want to say um i'm landing right
now i'm playing fortnite because they added star wars and the miles morales so it's like fucking
lit but everybody's getting everything fucked up everybody's getting everything confused
everybody's drifting off to to uh let me see how i can put this like
like fairy tales like no all right so we gotta get the real shit like brought back to the table
the whole point of the crypto right is decentralization right so you're tired of the bank fees
when you stake you can get like a six percent api rather than like a one percent api if you put
shit in your savings account you know what i mean you got people with nodes and computers that
can run this and that you know like if you have if you have one of those you're a top player in
the game and so let me let me i'm like a fucking straight d gen so like if anybody doesn't
agree with what i say you can dm me we could talk about it you can dm leap you can call me out
i don't dm don't dm don't dm leap he's got business calls and plays to make so dm his agent dm
his manager all that shit but um the the ordinals uh i feel like so like when i first started
satoshi nakamoto described the satoshis you know what i mean and it's like somebody finally
discovered how to put this the satoshis into play the sats the ordinals and scribing stuff
you know what i mean and everybody's like tripping on so like the metaplex whole shit
like bro if you're a founder and metaplex hits you with fees i know you can afford it but
don't bitch about it if you act like it's gonna hurt the community you just said like 12 different
things at one time what what is that would ordinals have to do with metaplex would have
to do with the nodes like i'm confused here it really all ties into one thing dude like
everybody's trying to get rich quick you you put your money in you try to get rich quick
all right like you can put your money in but if you can't pull your money out what sense does
it make if you put your money in and you expect something to get to get in return and nobody's
like giving you anything in return like we can let me pull up frank my boyfriend for example
people bitched about so that the hoodies came out the XXLs you know what i mean people were
bitching they're like oh you got all this money you can you can do this you can do that
why why am i getting XXL hoodies i feel like people don't realize like maybe not a lot of
people want to work with companies that are involved in web3 because they they see a lot
of things and they see scams they see this they see that i mean fucking top shots is getting
pulled into to court you know like there's so many so many things cracking down and like
it's scary to think that the scc was gonna crack down on us but then they they release
a statement saying like oh we we really don't know what to do with them you know what i mean
so it's like i feel like we let too much shit slide like let's say with ben with the psyop like
motherfuckers are sending them ETH to to get in their presale there's no like secured like
contract to if you put your money you know what i mean like i think the hype is really taking over
what the main mission was was the decentralization do you if you put your money in you know you
can get your money out the the devs like it's just it really does tie into a lot of stuff
and i feel like we're starting to overlook that shit i think we need to really touch base on
what we really did this for and read the white paper of satoshi and like it's i'm i'm i might
sound crazy to some people i i don't know a lot what i'm talking about but i've taught myself
i've been in the game for a minute i'm i finally made a bag off my first fucking playoff
nft fucking gave me a bag you know what i mean but like i think it's just starting to get
too much too much hype not enough knowledge or i don't i can't i can't put a pin on it i can't
put the the tail of the donkey but if anybody's out there listening to me and can understand what
i'm talking about then i appreciate you but if not i'm gonna jump off for you
okay flip i appreciate you shout out to fortnite and epic games i want to i want to throw it to
to some of these hands but fuck it i need to just i need to just talk here for a minute i need to just
fucking talk um i've been listening to this conversation we got a ton of hands up so we're
gonna do this i'm gonna start this out here real quick i need to just read an article i
gotta get back in my element here so this is one paragraph i'm gonna read it just interesting
to the goat protos.com again not affiliated with them in any way i just think they just their
articles are hilarious um so terraform lab's co-founder doukwan has had his request for
bail revoked despite paying a bail sum of 400 000 euros last week instead doukwan will remain in
custody as he faces charges fabricating official documents in mont Montenegro a court statement
revealed how doukwan and former terra executive chong june chang june request for bail was
initially approved by first instant court and the pair each paid the stipulated amount on may 17
however the agreement was subsequently appealed by the prosecutor's office
high court upheld the appeal and voided the bail leaving doukwan and june stuck in a cell
so actually i guess in jail right now i didn't even know that according to the public relations
office for the podagorica basic court doukwan's bail was rejected because the first instant court
could not determine the value of their property based on their statements but only concrete
evidence that is not in the case files so the next court case is scheduled for june 16
and news of doukwan's role in the collapse of stablecoin terra and its native crypto luna is
still being unearthed last month it was reported that doukwan had sent nine billion won which is
three million dollars to a law firm just before terra and luna crashed this prosecutors from south
korea say suggests he knew of the impending crash and preemptively moved to tackle any
potential legal trouble so meanwhile this month celsius founder alex hinted that doukwan
sam bankman freed and their respective projects are responsible for the collapse of the celsius
network he claims that forces beyond his control caused the collapse of celsius and that he
couldn't have known that both ftx and terra which they had heavily invested to were fraudulent
endeavors so just kind of interesting stuff there a little update i want to throw it to some
of these hands here uh we're going over to og og what's happening yo what's popping leap uh so i
was gonna ask naveen this shit but i mean another question for naveen but he mia so trevor my god my
fucking slime uh if you were to start at the ordinals right now like you wanted to get like
fucking completely entrenched into them uh what are some good resources you can start with
um at the opposition of celsius which is forth night
it's it's another it's used in america for um for weather it's f and c so celsius is for europe
and middle east and bro what is what the fuck did that like bro what
i want some of that whatever it is i i'm sorry i can't do this anymore i i just
the one time i ask a good question like bro trevor
yeah i i got you man dude uh in my in my bio the ordinal show check out our spotify you can
like download edited versions of the ordinal show like go back um you know i don't know
what exactly you are trying to learn but we've like covered everything exhaustively
in the space and we on twitter space and we edit it down into like really tight
clips and stuff like that so you can probably whip through it in like a weekend or like um
you know if you also listen on like 1.5 or 2x if you're really if you know you're up on your coffee
then uh i think you can catch up pretty quickly also there's some good threads from like bit god
and a few other people that kind of just break down how to get into ordinals was the
best way you got to get a wallet whatever it might be um i'll see if i can find a couple
and send them to you it's not super complicated but it does take a look you know it's just like
starting up on any new chain it takes a little bit a little bit of time so i appreciate that also
uh leap girl like your fucking your clickbait titles just keep getting better like i initially
hopped in because the last space like what do you mean by that and now we're in a douquan ama
like it's fucking jonah douquan like is that our closest bet here dude i'm just i i'm not
gonna i'll be completely honest with y'all i'm i'm at the point with twitter spaces that like i
need to go source like some either crazy information or like some something new
because we need to like mix it up we need a little bit of spice in here um i love i actually loved
the l2 conversation i i mean that i that was so great it carried carried the twitter space for
over an hour and a half because it was just such great information in that but if we're
going to continue to do these like four or five hour spaces i got to get better information and
bring it to the space here because i'm like right i'm right thread and i were talking about this
earlier today we're like we're running out of titles like bull markets back we've done that
20 times nfts are dead 50 times fucking bitcoin failed i've done that probably like three times
in the last week so um we need a we need to up the game douquan ama is just that's just
it's not even clickbait it's just a flat out no it's that's honestly a fucking banger but uh
yeah bro send me those threads bro yeah let me find them here i have a couple of them bookmarks
so i took the leap and i actually been one of my trades about that if you don't mind
yeah yeah um you can it's pinned up at the top here as well so if you want to check that one
og uh thank you indian um i want to throw it over to jonah jonah what's happening and
why is grand theft auto chain the biggest chain bro i've had like the most annoying night
play bro you ever you ever get like the worst ear pain from like a clogged ear my bad bro
it's fucking torture like don't know what the three hours dealing with this i'm good now
to a degree but man debrox does not very well not that i'm trying to share my own medical
thing but this is over the counter so it's not like some creative thing but like debrox does not
work that well jesus christ be careful with that stuff um yeah anyway gta say i mean like it's
clickbait that's not going to happen like it's good luck they're not putting crypto in their game
with 90 certainty i just like not it's not logical and i could cite multiple reasons why and it's
because of public companies jonah all i heard in that take was there's a 10 chance gta puts
crypto in their game okay so like what i think will happen is you will be able to make money
but probably in the way that you can make money on fortnite not like crypto where like
it is very what is very likely because they're spending about a billion dollars on this game
just so you know production cost is at about a billion dollars uh it will probably be the most
expensive game ever made in history as far as i'm aware is there probably going to have a
creator mode they know for one that gta 5 has had significant lifetime value because of the
modding community which normal people can't really access so there's a way that they they can then
control it and monetize it themselves and share in that value that is probably what they're working
on but i think we sometimes you got to get out of our crypto heads a little bit i mean naveen
is completely right like we're built like you know building a lot of hammers but you know there
aren't a lot of you know there aren't a lot of like things being built with them that are actually
usable and like it's just like why you know i think that the best thing that you could be
doing right now is probably content or probably ip or probably production because none of these
chains have any real traffic and they'd be killing for that traffic and they're gonna have to because
they all operate like publishers so i don't know why we're building so many publishers and we're not
building any content for those publishers it's just kind of weird well in regards to the gta thing i
mean i remember even just over a year ago people with rumors that they're gonna put crypto in the
game it doesn't make sense to me either and now they did say that you're gonna be able to make
real money or it's transferable to to real money whatever that means but that could that can mean a
million things or that can mean so many different things so i don't think it necessarily it's
even then it's really hard and i guess so i'm equally interested in the stock market as i am
the crypto market so i like live between both um and i'll tell you why that is very hard
so they're owned by a company a public company called take two interactive it's jumped i have
to go look maybe it's retraced but it's jumped in price because of the speculation that it should
come out sometime uh either early 2024 or early 2025 it's one of those uh which is it sounds like
a lot a long span but it's basically some time in the next you know 600 days uh give or take
which is not that long in in game development release time um and and because of that
there is an expectation of significant profit therefore share price increase now if you tell
people you're going to add crypto that creates a risk which would mean a drop in in share price
and because they're a public company they would have to disclose that they are adding real
cryptocurrency in the game okay so so if you're a multi multi-billion dollar company the thing
that you you have to do is be fiduciary responsible as much as possible unless you
see such an opportunity that it is just unquestionable okay the second reason is let's say even if it's
not cryptocurrency and it's cash or credit if they allow you to to transfer out or operate
so i'll give you an example i run a bunch of bounty programs for our our community
i cannot provide bounties over 600 because if i do that i need to get their 1099s because they
may be contracted workers i also have to make sure that some of these bounties are open where it's not
just nft holders who have access to the bounty because you need to run a proper in some way
online contest there are legitimate rules to to all these things that are already established so
if they let millions of people transact in and out they need to get either a a sub license
from a bank or they need to get their own money transmitter licenses and then it puts
into question what take two is as a company are they now a bank as well and that may not be favorable
for the share price and when you run companies in the billions you really think about your share
price more than anything else no that makes sense that makes sense i mean i think just like
logistically it doesn't make sense for them to do but but like think about the projected revenue
right you don't spend a billion dollars on a game if you think if you don't think you're
going to make you know double triple quadruple that right so if it already has such inherent value
there's no need to take the risk on putting crypto in that game it's more likely they'd
put crypto in some other new title where they you know where if it you know goes to shit they
don't lose that much no that makes sense that makes sense it was like i had a conversation
with somebody recently where we were talking about drake and if drake put out a fractionalized
album or some sort of you know just something related to his music but in the nft space they
probably make 50 million dollars in the bull market maybe even more hundred million who
knows it could be huge why didn't he do it it doesn't even make sense he's too big makes
too much money it's too much risk right but it would make sense for like a smaller artist to do
and we saw tori lain's do things like that whatever it might be soldier boy has released
you know quite a few nfts so and speaking of nfts kind of unrelated but y'all remember hape
who remembers that project hape thumbs up thumbs down it's like these 3d gorillas ape type things
and they're all like wearing streetwear and it was like the most fucking hype thing like prement
it was like 12 eth or whatever it was when eth was 4k tons of volume when it revealed i remember
a one of one sold for 400 000 dollars it just crazy crazy volume on that collection it's
basically dead um now now the parent company digimental studios was just acquired for 12
million dollars and we've seen a few of these nft acquisitions right so oni force has new
ownership hudgy penguins luka purchased them we're gonna see a lot more of those because
there are like ape i'll be honest with you arts decent for what it is i mean it's not really my
style but it's pretty good it's not bad and you know there's a lot of holders and it has a lot of
volume already and you know i don't know what the floor price is currently but it's just interesting
that it sold for 12 million when a project like pudgy sold for 2.5 to listen to this
in a strategic move that could signal significant implications for the metaverse
vertex labs the uk based web 3 and ai infrastructure company has announced its
acquisition of digimental studios the creative force behind the 3d nft fashion brand hape for 12
million dollars the acquisition expected to strengthen vertex lab standing as a provider
for web 3 and ai infrastructure worldwide which i don't i don't know what that means but digimental
studios is set to merge with vertex labs which i guess they have a metaverse protocol called
vertex network and a 3d metaverse platform called light cycle the latter of which digimental will
take the lead on in terms of creation and development of the move promises to expand their
offerings signifying a landmark for the hape project which has swiftly gained strong and loyal
following since its launch in 2021 i don't know how true that is i don't know this article seems
i don't know the shared vision is for hape to become the go-to destination with the fashion
verse and a home for its community members through its integration into vertex lab 3d
metaverse light cycle so it looks like people are still kind of investing in that side of things
this is hape to introduce staking program it recognized for its digital art inspired by
street fashion tech and music they've done over 57,000 eth traded which is 100 million dollars
at current price so they're expected to continue growth maintaining collaborations blah blah blah
in addition to ongoing collaborations they're doing staking all this stuff anyway this is
a huge article on it um but the point is do we see more of these acquisitions happening and do you
think 12 million dollars for hape and this company is that worth it i have no clue i have no clue but
it's just interesting to see a project like that sell for for i mean 12 million is not so many of
these products like i so there was a a good two months where i was like hmm i can put a group
together we're gonna buy a pfp project and like luca nets it until i looked at all the remaining
and i was like there's nothing really to buy because either the ones that are worth buying
have a crazy valuations and the ones that aren't worth buying
like they have no community so you're not even buying an ip that has a
like brand recognition so unless they have technology i don't know what this purchase is for
so i think they do have some sort of infrastructure it's like the whole metaverse thing
blah blah blah this light cycle platform it's just interesting so before the acquisition was
announced the floor price was 0.24 and now it's 0.37 with the best weath offer of 0.33
2 listed and 51 unique owners um you know it took pudgy's oni force and some of these other projects
a while for those like for really for those acquisition announcements to have some sort
of tangible effect on the floor price so it's going to be i'm not buying any and i don't think
anybody should go buy any like just be realistic with yourselves and don't go spend a bunch of
money based on some acquisition that being said i'm going to be watching and i want to see what the
what the effect is here because you never know like oni force was considered kind of a dead project
and the new ownership has come and completely revitalized as massive momentum and the floor
price is pumping and the community blah blah blah so it looks like and kind of what you were
saying before jonah there's a lot of projects out there that have great art that are dead
but they're open and here's the value in them so one the art is already done
they have recognition i mean anybody who's been in the nft space for a while they know about
hape like if you're around for you know since beginning of 2022 you absolutely know about hape
and so you have recognition for the brand you have the art already done you have an
open sea profile that says 57 000 ethereum volume traded you have the stats of 2 listed and 51
unique owners it's already in a lot of people's wallets there is value there if you can buy
one of these projects and turn it around there is a community sitting i mean they're probably
not active but there are people who are holding these things probably just waiting for something
to happen and i don't know i'll give you an example of what i looked at because i didn't
sign any nda's and but i won't show any number is a gutter cat can you tell me what you could
do with gutter cat a lot you could you could probably do a ton with gutter cat new ownership
could probably shake that thing up have you considered that the community may be so toxic
that it's maybe impossible i mean i'm sure there are good people within the gutter cat i mean
cryptobyte is a gutter cat member i rest my case wait a second um wait a second uh
no shout out to cryptobyte but um yeah i think gutter cat has to be so expensive to buy i mean
did you okay you didn't sign it you didn't sign it i don't know i don't know what what no
because it's not kosher to do that but i would say that if you think they're expensive then i'm
sure they'd be happy to sell it to you for whatever you think expensive is okay so you can't say the
exact number because not it's just it's just bad manners you just don't do that and i'm okay
bad manners you don't do that bad manners good manners is it under three i'm not i will literally
it's like it is uh like yeah i won't get sued but it's an ethics thing i will not say anything
other than that i me personally my personal opinion this is nothing to do with any valuation
i i do not i would not pay uh a high price not because i don't like the art or the brand or
even the founders i actually think i like all those things but there there are some indications
where i do not feel at least me that doesn't mean someone else couldn't do it i do not feel i could
turn it around based on the community at present what would you pay for it i wouldn't pay anything
i would i would take it over i would use my own capital or my partner's capital
and i would pay out the founders over a period of x years based on performance
interesting what other collections did you look at well i wouldn't say well one i did like but
i never made like an official offer of sappy seals uh because i oh they're not now there's no way
yeah but they haven't raised any money so it's like i would and also i wouldn't ever want to
replace wab it'd be more like i want to be a partner gotcha yeah no i like the sappy seals
no i think i think wab is very good and i think the brand's very good and i but like i that's
the one of those cases where like his valuation might be more justified they'd be more like uh
significant minority shareholder where i can just be a part of it but there was one um shoot they
they look like is it kaiju kings they look like baby dinosaurs but they're like they're eight bit
yeah you might be thinking of kai yeah i mean kaiju kings they i'm pretty sure they still have
a strong community well the thing that i liked about kaiju was that like if i were to take one
over my goal would specifically be to as fast as possible build a brand native to asia even if it
didn't have a twitter presence because i just think hong kong is such a significant opportunity and
they're so pro crypto and nft and so is japan that if you can build a brand there it might be
worth more than even having a brand native to the u.s you know another one that i think
like please nobody go buy any of these nfts i'm about to say because there is no acquisition there
are no rumors there's no nothing these are some projects that i know of from like early 2022
that have solid art another one and this is crazy to me that someone hasn't like because
it just depends what you're looking for if it needs an existing community like a strong existing
community it's tough your options are limited but if you're looking for pfp collections that
just have solid art and good stats like 10k plus ethereum traded you know sub 3 percent listings and
and plus 50 unique owners something that fits that mold is star catchers i don't know but
i don't know if anybody knows about this collection recently they had a little bit of
i mean they've had so much controversy in their in their lifetime and i'm not going to go through
everything that happened with them but something that happened recently was somehow the price
pumped to like 0.3 and after it was like from 0.02 it was a crazy pump it happened very quickly
on a dead collection essentially and then somebody dumped 11 percent of the total supply 1100 nfts
all into blur bids at the same time pulled out like 400 eth and just crashed the collection
it's at 0.01 right now which is just it's crazy because it actually has some of the better pfpr
you should go to korey but all i'd say is that like i looked at that one too i never made i never
talked to them but that was when i like i had a whole list of of potentials um i like the art
but you also don't know like what could you do with the thing and it's i felt it was limited
in what you're doing it's limited yeah it's super limited i think the art is aerial is so
they had older art the artist the original artist there was like a bunch of drama
he basically sniped some like one of one rares pre-reveal because he knew which ones they were
and then he sold them back to his own team for like 50 eth or something crazy like that
and um then he left that project and went and started another project and that one minted out
too and did really well and then it and then it died of course um and then they replaced that
artist with uh ariel and ariel's super talented she's she's great and they redid the entire art
every like same style same characters but like different and they redid everything completely
original art so had no ties ties to the original artist and even that wasn't enough too and
they've thrown events i mean they had nftla 2022 they had a big ass event like they try i'm not
gonna lie they tried i don't know maybe they you know it's it's very difficult to get these
things to work but they fucking they they put an effort in and um oh yeah there's a ton of these
collections and i don't know i mean at some point maybe some companies will come in and buy these
things up you'll never know but anyway um okay we'll go to the hands here um i think it was
corry corry and then we got to go to sir after corry what's up hey i think there are other
people but i'll i'll be pretty pretty brief and quick i wanted to talk about what was uh some
things 10 minutes ago thanks for having me up by the way um i agree with jonah on the gaming side
um you're able to buy and sell gold and like even like eve online you were able to buy
time cards and be able to get cash for these things and they even had a marketplace to to
promote this so i don't see a lot of reason right now to go to a blockchain crypto version of
that especially when it's just within a game maybe for some hacking reasons and
immutability but the problem is there's a lot of friction uh on the cash out even if you like
partner with uh already like moon pay or another money transmitter license uh payment processor
that can handle that then you're also talking about additional fees there and then finally
there's a taxation event on a crypto period that you have to report which is the biggest
friction point for why crypto just doesn't work in my opinion for for gaming right now as far
as cashing out so just stick with you know just stick with you know what they do today
which is you know you can list gold or or or or or time card you know value and then
essentially sell your your your you know your your gold mining your your experience your
slightly disagree that that they're that crypto to a degree is a better option so
a good example like there are crypto custodial wallet providers these are like 2.5 companies
i'm sponsored by one and you wouldn't even know that they're operating web 2 but they're
actually like there are there is a mobile game out there that has multiple millions of users
that is using this wallet solution they don't even know that they could that they have a crypto
wallet like there are mill like in at any time i agree on the user on their user experience
but in the united states you would have to report tax events uh if you cashed out to fiat
and and that's yeah yeah i mean yeah that's that's pretty even if the dollar so when i
was selling like actually this has been a problem forever when i use a bitcoin to buy a dollar
sticker i would have to deal with with tax event on our freaking dollar transaction it was ridiculous
so that's my point is there's just too much friction on that component of it
and in addition they're adding another player where if they just you know if they just allow
i don't why not just use what they do today which is you cash out you know you know you know
100 gold for for for 10 bucks right it's been on ebay forever it's the chinese been doing this for
for 20 years back in the uo you ever quest days wow days right so i don't know what the the benefit
of putting it it on a blockchain per se the only benefit maybe might be an economy risk standpoint
and if they have good security on their database because it's it's all within the game um if
they're trying to do like like some sort of interoperability between games then it starts to
make sense uh to to use like a blockchain technology to facilitate uh the interoperability but
within a single game i just don't see the the juice is not worth a squeeze is my opinion yeah
and i'm just gonna disagree with you because i have talked to several devs where they have
stated that there are some server spending uh benefits like it like in some cases because
it's running on chain i i'm not a dev so i have to ask from detail because i've heard this from
several people is that running it on ethereum actually has some cost-saving benefits for any
developers rather than on their own systems so that would be one or on amazon uh so that would
be one the other is that your your point about uh like friction if that were the case then twitch
wouldn't exist because every single person who gets paid on twitch has to follow through
on a tax document the reason it's easier is because amazon auto generates it and funny enough
coinbase is already invested in partnered in those things that allow you to do that for crypto
so either coinbase or any other provider could build that natively in the game and you would
have it saying if you cash out here is your automated document and then you file the taxes
there are many ways to do this where you don't have to deal with that friction
but twitch is is a revenue base and i'm saying the taxation on twitch is like 600 or less right
is whatever the case is you have to report it 1099 or or things around that i'm my tax expert
but with with crypto any transaction you have to report because of how it's treated right now so
it's slightly different on on a revenue model versus a capital gains model which is which goes
on with with crypto sure but i think well i'm more interested in the nfts and the nfts i believe get
are soon to be taxed differently although the tax is higher which is unfortunate but it's like
a collect collectible tax which is i guess falls into our collecting but there's a criteria for
what an art collection is by their definition um but yeah no there's that part two i do think
that there's issues there but i think for the indie developer as i said this makes a lot more
sense than for take two and quite frankly i i'm perfectly happy living in a world where
if web 3 fails but it it pushed for revenue share in games on a cash basis i would personally
consider that a win and i would operate in that business just as well as if i didn't crypto
because most of this rev share stuff did not exist before crypto pushed it especially plate earn
yeah i mean i i'm just on the web three piece to me the more stable asset back coins is where
you're going to get um uh less friction stays stays native you don't have to go you know from
from fiat to crypto back to fiat again that's just honestly uh additional friction that if you
stay in fiat or in this case stay in in usdc or some sort of stable asset that coin that
is recognized and you can just transact in that it's a lot better and you get the the the
the advantage of a shared ledger that's that's more immutable than a single database so
that's i i see a lot of benefits for rev 3 we do um so there's that point the other point is
there are there are big artists um that are fractionalizing ownership of records of uh
anti-war halls free you know i will go i'll freeport.com for example um does that um so there are
there are there are ways to through you know regulated securities um this case just to be
you know super safe uh to to allow fractional ownership of these assets where big companies
can do that because the fact that it's it's all regulated all legal and they still provide
the ability for the retail investor to to transact and buy for 50 bucks ownership in these things
yeah i'm looking at other sorry leap i just had to say like you guys are both making like really
good points right now and one thing that it's making me think of as somebody who's not like
bullish on gaming leading the next fucking bull market um i do wonder how much like sway
fucking the gaming industry has in washington and if they were to take on this like if they
could do something to kind of change some of the the uh the ways that like anesthesia attacks
because like zj on it like they're taxed as collectibles and they're taxed more than cryptos
are so i don't know just which one i'll answer both questions but you won't like the answer
to the ending uh they have significant power in washington uh these companies spend
millions and millions of dollars every year lobbying i know because of i've had the
weird opportunity to pass to help pass an actual e-sports betting bill until law
and publishers do not like e-sports betting because it's money that's out of their pocket
and so when i was helping pass that bill in the state of ohio i was being lobbied against by
the esa or the entertainment software association and um they have they have offices or they have
lobbying groups in every every state in the united states and it's a conglomerate of all the biggest
gaming companies where their their whole mission and they're not against me or anyone else their
whole goal is to make sure the government stays out of gaming as much as possible and and pays
pays for that um and then the second thing is most video game publishers at large size do not
care or even want nfts because it's it's not money that it's not more money to them it's
more money to the player and they are a revenue maximizing business and that's why you're going
to see probably more of this innovation happen in mobile gaming before browser or console gaming
just because they dominate those markets so jonah um you know you were talking about buying projects
i this is unrelated to gaming but i feel like this would be a perfect fit for you i think you
should i would totally back your decision and purchase this project cryptosys by lonner rote
oh lonner rote yeah that would get some headlines it depends on which website for that would get
headlines but i think it headlines i feel there's an acquisition potential there now i'm just looking
i'm looking at some of these aside from like big nft fails or like biggest project so you know
ellen degeneris had an nft project at one point ellen degeneris uh is a lot like james cordon
they both should just you know forget their their uh talk show careers and move on
okay well look we'll go to the hands we're gonna go over to sir sir what's happening
hey good evening everyone um just listening i just want to share some stuff i was um i went to
nft san francisco and uh had kind of an eye-opening experience hanging out with uh alexi
from rarible and craig palmer from uh makerspace and uh stephanie uh dropped some alpha there uh
stephanie j she was like the newbie she's the new like chief business and strategy officer at ebay
and um they had just bought known origin and you know part of this whole nft thing i'm very
bullish on ordinals i basically shifted everything and and went really hard into my one-on-one art
into ordinals and reinvented and then stuff reinvented you know the file size into it but
you know the point i'm trying to make here is that you know there's going to be a massive boom here
and ebay's working quietly this woman was very brilliant she's a uh a crypto punk holder
she came from walmart she was there for like 12 years she's an e-commerce you know killer um
so my point being is that ebay brings a lot to the table and i think people are sleeping
on them a little bit and i think they're going to have a major play because they're known for
the collectible world um they're going to create an amazing market expansion and their accessibility
they've got 132 million monthly users so the normies are there you know i mean and there's
a loyal following and ebay has basically you know they've got the regulation component i think once
congress or you know hopefully it'll be a trickle down on legislation that there will be some some
reasoning coming from our representatives as opposed to coming it coming at it from a you
know a legal standpoint um it's a little bit of a train wreck but once i feel like there's some um
some clarity and these people can make their decisions and moves in a legal you know way
that they feel comfortable with because ebay has all the on-ramps you know they've got every
country in the world you know dialed in i'm a big fan of the vivi and the ecomi platform
that has having been a writer at fox kids and written you know kids animation i know al con and
al brought the ip of um you know uh pokemon and and um uh teenage mutant ninjas um he brought
disney and marvel uh to the augmented reality platform on vivi and um and vivi's done something
that that is going to be you know um what needs to happen in the sense and and you guys have
mentioned it tonight but you know this this process and and all of us are are very technical
you know we've been able to figure out the wallet and the seed phrase but you know the
general public you know i just i have a handful of friends that i've tried to onboard and they're
just they're patient level they just can't do it they're millionaires and you know they're
just like what the fuck like this is stupid what is this metamask thing whatever not to derail it
but when you uh just to interrupt real quick do you when you say vee do you talk about the
platform vibe spelled viv3 no it's vee vee there's the disney one okay okay all right
just clarifying yeah yeah no it's just an app and they've they've got you know insane ip and
and whatever but um um you know the the point is that vivi made it so you came in and you
didn't even know you're in crypto and i think ebay is going to do the same thing you know um
i just so i'm just saying that you know they're going to onboard a lot of people their dynamics
are insane they've already got the physical you know component of it they did a muhammad Ali drop
um you know and the other thing they did is they bought known origin
so they're coming in and they're devouring people um i wouldn't doubt if they don't buy
maker's place um you know so they're buying the marketplaces they're in the silicon valley
stephanie's from the bay you know um so i've just just put it out there i'm just very bullish i
guess my my point is that you know i'm at a building phase i'm not selling anything i'm just
building and creating art and you know i had you know a couple super rare things that i was going
to do and i just yanked it all and and just reconformed it to a shorter storytelling
component uh to be able to fit these file constraints with um with the ordinal so you
know that was my whole point was just to share this whole kind of ebay potential thing i think
that they you know could be a huge player in the space their previous relationship with paypal
you know and paypal's you know uh you know exit strategy out of coinbase you know into
your bank account you know there's a lot of pieces of the puzzle that are all there
so that that that was my big point and i'll i'll bow out and i'm getting ready for bed
thank you sir i appreciate the take and ebay's definitely one to look out for go ahead zico
well i was just going to say i'm sad that um i didn't even know about that event because i'm in
the bay and uh next time there's an event like that going on sir please keep me posted hit that
notification bell just so i don't miss out on the next but um yeah man i mean there's like you're
right there's makers places based out of san francisco so i wouldn't be surprised if ebay uh tries
to um acquire them as well and this is the season where a lot of a lot of companies are
getting acquired um so that'd be really interesting to see but you did say that ebay has been very
quiet and i 100% agree because i've been trying to stay updated with what they're doing and i have
no idea what they're doing so but we can always talk more thanks zico appreciate you i want to
throw it over to web 3 elizabeth elizabeth what's going on hello men in the house what's up
um i have oh my goodness where do i start i've been on here for so long um i started out of the gta
conversation uh which makes me kind of drive into existing monetary legalities and contracts
also driving into the fact that who is your target market children within gaming and how do
you how do you legally monetize that versus like not monetize that how do you make the kids involved
but not involved uh that's very confusing and i don't know why the gaming industry that's
not their biggest topic about adoption it within the web 3 realm i think that's kind of where i
want to start let's start there how about anybody in the room want to explain to me how uh we're
going to legalize web 3 adoption and gaming when they're under the age of whichever state it
could be 16 17 and 18 years old depending on the state how do they or can they even play the games
is there a treasury fund set up like what does that look like has anybody heard anything like that
so are you basically asking like what is this from like a kind of like a
gambling standpoint like underage gambling or like what's the
well the rule is is that if you're under the age of owning a bank account within each state
this is speaking within the us that is um outside of the us i don't know what those ages look like i
do apologize but inside the us it's like 16 17 and 18 years old so if these kids are playing games
right gta minecraft whatever that looks like if they're not able to game the tokens
at that age legally how do you how do you as a company recognize that
are you going to allow that to become a system like
you know that's a huge like the age issue alone for me is like when you play with web 3 you play
with age you play with money it's gambling so you should be legal to play so i'm just curious if
anybody has heard of any solutions that are like a potential trust fund for those type of kids
that are set up and they can earn tokenomics all the way through or they can earn skins and such
because not everything is a digital image it can be something that is a skin it can be a token it
can be you know money that's paid forward that they can interact with legally but just curious
if anybody's gone or heard of any company that's building gaming into web 3 i don't know um well i
mean so i'm not an expert on this and there's there's definitely a lot in the question i wish
joan was up here probably could probably answer this a little bit better but the way that i look
at it is so one i think the the time and place for erc20s in video games is probably mostly past
now that doesn't mean that they're not going to be there there'll probably still be some companies
that try it but what i see when it comes to nfts and gaming is really just ownership
of the assets that are in the game in some way or another um so i'll give you a couple examples
like look at roblox roblox there was a a streamer by the name of i show speed that recently went
viral just two days ago for accidentally buying a fedora in the game for 120 000
so yes there are people buying and selling these are non-nfts they're in a centralized
database has nothing to do with blockchain but people are are buying and selling items all the
time and there's ownership of assets in the game and the way i think about nfts and gaming
would be the same exact way that roblox is now but those items those digital items would be backed
and authenticated by non-fungible token tech so when you look at it like that it seems a lot less
like like it seems like the same amount of risk towards yeah but you're talking about children
that are not legally allowed to like interact with certain skins like when you go into the
metaverse i don't know if you've ever been but you can purchase but you have to legally be able to
purchase and own money to be able to purchase that skin so there's a certain like parent method over
that that i think that people are forgetting about the web 3 space that like children are a huge
majority of games that are played so why are you building a game if the majority of people
that are going to play are kids and if they do want to earn i don't know this is just me i'm not
an adult playing games maybe everybody in this chat is in those spaces but i mean we have to
think about ways of adopting that too so i mean i um i honestly have no idea really here like
what demon said i think i would just say this what do you think about roblox right in this
moment the way roblox is currently kids are buying and selling items all the time kids
are not legally kids are not allowed to buy and sell they have to have their parents card
money permission in order to do that like there is a legal age in the u.s but they are doing it
and the parents are giving them permission so in that world in which parents are giving
their kids permission to do these things what would you say to that well i would say that
you should switch over to web 3 realm because it's behind the scenes no i'm just kidding don't
do that kids don't do that do it the right way do it one way you make a valid you have a valid point
for sure um but kids are also the best sales people that have ever existed right like i mean
that's kind of you know i hate to i hope this doesn't sound like i'm trying to exploit kids or
anything wow that sounded fucking terrible but like just pay attention to what your nieces and
nephews are paying attention to you know if you don't have kids of your own if you want to get
an idea of like what kids care about right i mean they're not going to be 13 forever and how do you
have to be to have a twitter account by the way right like i think the same rules that apply in
web 2 probably should apply to web 3 and like you know you brought it's a very complex thing
because you're talking about banking and um like i think i don't know how old you have to be to
have a bank account but you definitely need to have a parent sign on if you're going to open
up a checking account anyway right so um so i don't know uh it's it's it's an interesting
question i don't have an answer i don't know who does and i even look at like things like counter
strike um you know like counter strike has in-game items that sell for quite a bit and they're
centralized to to steam right in the steam marketplace and things like that so i mean
i definitely agree with you i think and when it comes to digital assets a big part of it does
kind of become gambling and people start throwing a large amount of money around but i don't think
that nft technology in it of itself is a danger to children nor do i think it is a danger when
placed in a video game i think anything that i mean even fortnite right now you could take
your parents credit card and spend five thousand dollars or like it like the risk is kind of the
same now we look at nfts much differently than i think a kid playing roadblocks would look at
an item in the game backed by nft technology would look at it because when we're looking at nfts
we're throwing around one two three eth we're throwing thousands of dollars into shit coin
like we were looking at crypto and there's really gonna defy decentralized finance essentially
that's not how i think it's going to be presented to kids and if anything in these video games i
don't even think the fact that these things will be nfts will be a big aspect of like look at
something like dead drop dead drop is essentially an escape from tarkov clone that the items in the
game are backed by nfts and they have a real value to that you can buy and sell but you don't really
even like know that they're nfts if you really didn't even think to look into it you wouldn't
know so i think that's more so how gaming is going to be or something like take it for
example other side for yuga let's say you're in there and you're creating a chair or a piece
of furniture or a piece of clothing and you're selling it in the in-game marketplace like it's
backed by an nft but how is that any different than a kid buying and selling a hat and roadblocks
it's not that different that being said i think parents should still watch out for their kids
and make sure they know what their kids are doing i'm not here to say what kids are should
or shouldn't do but i think that parents should just make the best decisions for their kids that
they can like it's up to the parents and that that's how i've always like parents need to raise their
kids in the best way possible and of course there are going to be some kids that get a hold
of their parents credit card and do something crazy but that happens anyway but i think the
idea of like a kid playing a game that has nfts in it and then somehow falling into like
decentralized finance and gambling away tens of eth like i think that's always like the worst
case scenario and that seems a lot more unlikely but also and the last thing i'll say
we'll jump to the hands is that when we think about these quote unquote play to earn games
which is just i think that's something that that term is not going to be a thing anymore
i think just most extra earned things will be gone i think it's going to be more so play to
collect or play to achieve and yes we're just changing the words a bit the concept significantly
different i think it'll be people playing games and earning skins cosmetics or creating items
within the games and then they can do with those what they want they can hold them they
can probably sell them in the in-game marketplace and the fact that they're nfts won't be as much of
a thing as it is now because yeah i just i i don't know that's what i think at least so
i don't know i don't know if that answers i i think she left the stage and she was gone
yeah i was gonna say like not to not to disrespect the hands but you know just
look at axi infinity i guess that's probably the best um the best case study that we have
so and that's that's that's an outside of the united states um uh point of view as well so i don't know
but i guess if she's not here then move on yeah yeah yeah i mean i used to be really concerned
about like the online gambling for kids sort of deal when it came to gaming but i don't know my
mind's changed on it because it's like happening already it's literally happening already it's it
exists in in most games even games that don't have it natively integrated people are selling items
for real for real money runescape world of warcraft whatever it is so this is this is something that
exists today and it's just the only difference is that hopefully these items these digital items
are backed by nfts in the future which just makes it just like makes the whole system work better so
i want to throw it quickly to bgf bgf you know a lot about gaming what do you think
what's up y'all uh yeah i i don't know if elizabeth dropped or dc'd or whatever but um
the topic in around child safeguards particularly in crypto is a really interesting rabbit hole
because like you have this dichotomy of a censorship resistant permissionless
uh ecosystem where privacy and anonymity is like kind of a core tenant of participation here
and one of the only ways to really go down the rabbit hole of uh like child safeguards is through
kyc um and there are some avenues that i would argue that that could be favorable uh in in you
know like acknowledging that everyone is of a certain age that your participation is is kind
of approved but um it that's that's all to say that like that's very web 2.5 like we're we have
this like aspiration of web 3 and all of this decentralization permissionless systems all of
these things but like the reality is that we're still all under some geopolitical jurisdiction
and that we should be abiding by the laws of that jurisdiction and so it's kind of like when
uh like stuck between a rock and a hard place or or unstoppable force immovable object kind of thing
um when when in these censorship resistant systems there's really no way to
stop it per se uh but there are kind of hurdles that you can put up in the way
thanks vcf yeah no i think the kyc thing is really interesting too
and as much as i hate kyc i hate hate hate it it might end up being necessary in some of these
games i don't know it's one of the only solutions i can think to to some of these problems so um
something we're gonna have to really look out for too i just hope we don't have to kyc our
metamask wallets that's that's gonna be a fucking nightmare and i feel like we might actually get
to that point um so anyway thanks vcf i'll throw it over to flurry flurry what's happening
what's up i just wanted to say like i think people are just like overthinking the whole like web3
gaming thing i think that's something that like these games are never going to be adopted if
we're using terms like play to earn if we're starting to integrate kyc solutions like that's
just never going to be integrated in the public like it's just as simple i think as doing what
roblox is doing people are already trading nfts on roblox like not nfts in quote but they're
doing digital collectibles and as much as we want nfts to be adaptable i think trying to like bring
everything into web3 is overthinking it a bit i think that we should kind of like bring it back
like i think pudgy or other products that are like making they're maybe going into gaming or
whatever they're doing like they're doing a good job by bringing it back a step because i think
we're getting a little bit too far ahead of ourselves thinking like this is the perfect world
they look at apple for example too with like that the under 18 discussion like apple you when you
buy a phone when you're using when you're doing games on your phone you have to actually physically
go into the settings and put like a child lock on it to make it so that when you're under 18 you
can't buy certain things so like there's no legal issues with kids buying shit like it's happening
um one of my good friends in this space is nick is nick small nick smalls 14 years old
he was trading thousands of dollars worth of shit on roblox when he was probably in fucking
elementary school like it's happening it's legal if apple i'm sure apples had a lot of legality
issues so it is legal that these kids are doing these things on these games and i think we are
overthinking the kyc shit the play to earn is a terrible terrible terrible term and
i think the future is bullish for gaming we just can't get too complicated with it it can't be
crazy i mean kyc is already happening i mean when you sign your parents credit card
or you put a bank account attached to a game uh so you can cash it out that's kyc right
the fact you're the whole credit card banking they're doing kyc underneath um when you provide
an email and a birth date you're getting kyc'd uh it's more about about self-identification
and age check around that case um yeah so i think they are age checking when they are using a card
at the end of the day but like you know like you gotta let the kids fly with using their
parents credit card a little bit like the fact that like you actually have to like physically go into
apple setting to stop kids like every every kid's gonna have an iphone and they have to like
physically go into apple settings to stop their payment methods like like kids are gonna cook
no matter what i think and um i don't think anyone's really gonna stop them from playing
these games well they're playing there's they're taking yeah so trading and earning
quote money in a game and then getting that out of the game for real fiat in this case that's where
that that off-ramp is where the kyc would happen yeah you can earn you know a million dollars worth
of whatever inside of a game the question is how you exit that that those assets into a different
into a currency right or into that's a big legality conversation right that is that's getting into a
whole new another ballpark i don't even know if that'll ever be shit like that's a that's a
u.s government that's what every government talk just to be clear uh selling games in roblox and
fortnite and things of that nature is currently against terms of service and like is one can
argue whether or not it's legal but it is not allowed under the current terms of service
that's interesting then how like there's like companies like again like i don't know the
right or wrong answer here but that's interesting how these companies can kind of just been getting
away with doing it since like i can even remember like shit i was buying and selling things when i was
like in middle school like like 10 years ago like doing like this stuff so it's the company isn't
supporting it though um they're just doing it on ebay just like back in the day when you when the
company didn't support buying selling them gold but people were just doing it anyways and they were
in they would sell the transaction on ebay and then they they would trust right and you go in
and you would receive the gold off a character that's outside of the actual company and the risk
and liability of the company which deals with the underage component here and that's different than
your parent giving a credit card to purchase in-game store items for example right which existed
and that's your parent giving permission and it's your parent that's liable at that point
for that and your parent is essentially your guardian is allowing that and there's again i
don't legalize around that but in terms of in terms of what you do on signing off on that in the game
but i know that's definitely possible my point was that kids can play on roadblocks but they
can't get cash for that unless they have a parent or in a bank account to basically off-ramp and
they also you can have the value stored but guess what just like stock if you can't actually
liquidate the value is stuck in a game and it's not worth anything other than what the game
value is that it was within the game itself if you want the closest blockchain equivalent
like where this might be going you can just look at flow right flow and zapper labs they're us
compliant they have a lot of this stuff and you can see all of the kyc aml shit that they have
for you to extract your value and of course right like value goes down whenever you can't
just straight up liquidate officially but it was funny hearing that that ebay analogy because that
it reminds me of basically the royalty debate right there's the arbitrage that you can do
around like the maybe not in the same transaction but still doing the thing thing or like yeah like
a blockchain can't block a transfer of a value for me to you like i can send you e and then
you can send me the nft in two separate transactions similar to i can send you the in-game item and
you can send me the money on ebay and i just like seeing the the repetition of all of this
same arbitrage opportunities across time the one thing i'll say about flow is is um uh you
don't say it so nonchalantly because flow has the money to fight the fucking legal battles which
they are entanglement right now i don't know all the details but i know that that's something
that they're constantly fighting and that's actually i don't want to go into uh any deeper
than that but that's important to to recognize yeah i think it's just like it's showing that
like ultimately it's you have to operate within the jurisdiction that your your company's formed in
right like on the actual blockchain level assuming it's truly decentralized like leap gave the example
earlier like i hate if metamask allows us to be our forces us to be kyc where like the blockchains
like water as long as the the lowest level is truly decentralized in public and you can actually
submit a transaction you can always get around it if metamask says hey you have to kyc a second
wall provider is going to pop up and you could do that because it allows for you to do that but
you know it's just the social layer on top of everything else is where it's going to come into play
thanks thanks y'all i want to throw it over to who has not spoken yet go over to static static
what's up hey what's going on guys um hey first i i just think we all have to remember this is
grandpa's not over talking about right like this is not a children's game and people aren't
going to be buying this game for like six-year-olds i mean that's just the reality of the situation to
begin with um but that said rockstar games is never going to launch a game with it not being
something you have to kyc for i mean they would they would risk their entire company so i think
that that's what where this is going to go but like you know if you think about like buying it
right like if you start right off the bat and you're not talking about downloading it like you're
never going to get it in a store because like companies like game stop that's by wherever you're
going to buy that they're going to card you at the door right before you even purchase it they've
always done that they scan ids um so this isn't really that big of a concern for i don't think i
would not think of it as a concern um you know and if they don't kyc then that's to be left in
the retailers or to be left to uh you know i guess the you know xbox or playstation to do
it through their servers but there's going to be a track of what's going on so my guess would be if
they decide to go forward with this which is debatable because again i think it's it's it's
unique because it's such a huge name game um if they do it i think it's awesome uh i don't really
care how they do it i mean if they do it like like you just brought up flow like i'll whatever
you know you're bringing people into the system but um you know if you think about them doing it
i mean it's just gonna uh it's they're gonna have to think through it you know because there's a lot
of reality to it but again it's again it's grand theft auto we're not talking about like madden you
know i mean that's the difference here so i miss the genesis of conversation is did grand theft auto
announce a web 3 aspect yeah just rumors essentially that you're gonna be able to take your money
from grand theft auto and transfer it to to actual real life money um which i mean we've been here
in this for years i mean if i think of anything we should push younger kids to play grand theft auto
and introduce them to steak roll bit i actually think so here's the thing about gambling it
actually increases dopamine and serotonin in the brain for a short period of time which is
actually really good for kids and the more money that they lose earlier on it creates an
entrepreneurial sort of grind mentality 24 seven um and and then just to even take it a step
adderall just a shit ton of adderall just adderall prescriptions day one grand theft auto
and steak memberships for all children across the board now after we do that we kyc every kid we use
world coin to scan their irises put their dna on the blockchain and clone them then we take that
even a step further no okay no actually you do have a point there because there is an ADHD
medication shortage in this country right now and so if you can find a healthy alternative
in gambling on shit coins then like you know there's something there's something to be said
about that yeah i think instead of adderall prescriptions we should just get kids addicted
to gambling um i i think that's probably the best case scenario here um and then just like
destroy all family values i think that that will probably that probably helps quite a bit as well
and then we just tell kids that web 3 is the future and get them addicted to twitter spaces
you know that'll just put them in the right position to win so we're gonna go over to
i don't even know if i'm i don't even know if it's satire at this point i don't know if i'm
being serious or i have lost all sense of reality i'm staring at a bunch of fucking
cartoon pictures on my goddamn screen holding a rectangle in my hand pacing around my room
and talking about grand theft auto to real life money if anything anyway okay i'm just gonna stop
there because i'm about to go on a rant we're going to vgf vgf what's happening uh i do have
some additional thoughts but i see that we have elizabeth back uh if she'd like to chime in i'll
we've got elizabeth no no no no vg f dot eth um i can't see the rest of your name but you go ahead
because i joined in after my phone died so oh so you missed i'm still catching up we we went down
the whole talking about child child protection and stuff in gaming and permissionless systems
and stuff sad you missed it exactly exactly where i wanted you all to go without me being in the
conversation and i unintentionally was not in the conversation but here we are again so go ahead
well so can one of you m ever just give a take this is ridiculous well so to clarify uh whoever
mentioned it earlier i wasn't speaking specifically to uh grand theft auto six i was speaking a little
more broadly uh i think it's silly to think that rockstar uh would risk multi-billion dollar
development budgets on uh incorporating blockchain into this game this early on um yeah like they're
a publicly traded company they're not they're not going to do something like that i think it's i
agree with that because of the monetary side of things strictly right like when you talk about the
contracts they've already have with existing people and curiosities everything in between like
the existing contracts the existing revenue stream along with congress senate president all of that
stuff going on with the money like that's a liability to even say you are web 3 at this point
right vg f daddy yeah i i would say that uh it's it's very very unlikely that they would go that route
uh like rockstar has like eight to ten year development time frames like people have been
playing the same grand theft auto with you know iterative updates for the last whatever it is seven
eight years um i think it's naive to think that they would incorporate blockchain at this time
whether or not it could be in the future i i think that's absolutely a possibility i think they are
amongst a very very rare few uh that are as exceptionally well positioned from like the triple
a level to incorporate blockchain technology and crypto the other couple maybe being epic games and
roblox uh but yeah talking about like child protection and things like that like it really
is a difficult situation when when you start talking about like you can just hand a kid a
fucking paper wallet uh or a hardware wallet with a passcode or uh like log them into your
computer with a metamask login and there's nothing to prevent them from engaging in this
ecosystem um there's only a handful of ways you can even regulate it right like there's all sorts
of regulations in and around gambling and playing certain games online you can regulate internet
service providers you can regulate on and off ramps as cori had talked about or you can regulate
by enforcement and and that's about it uh there's one other thing they can they can control the
coin itself i call issue controlled and so they can basically force you to do kyc or do some sort
of check before you move the coins to another wallet so the game company can control the
movement of their own currency or their own nfts uh in terms of of that if they choose to build the
smart contract itself that's so that's another way that they can basically um uh program
programmatically uh do the enforcement which may be a jurisdiction may put on them regarding
uh no peer-to-peer transactions uh without without some sort of kyc or approval and we're
back to allow us to block lists yay well i just want to quickly say this just it's just crazy
grand theft auto five came out on the playstation three we're on the playstation five now i mean
it's just insane how long that game has been running how much money they've made off it
i think grand theft auto six is going to be one of the best games of all time i i mean the
expectations are so high it's going to be hard for them to meet it that being said dude they
crushed rockstar crushes and you know not everything they've done has been perfect but i'm excited to see
what happens with it i do think there's going to be some aspect of real money in the game i just
don't know if it's going to be crypto maybe it is maybe but i just it's hard for me to believe it's
like oh bitcoin's integrated or there's some erc 20 integrate that that does not seem like grand theft
auto six is now play to earn i don't see that happening i just don't see that happening
maybe they have some sort of market maybe they have some sort of marketplace it's probably limited
if so it's such a big risk they could release grand theft auto six with no crypto integration
no real money and it's going to do billions of dollars in sales and people are going to play
it for over a decade so why take the additional risk by integrating crypto having the conversation
now you have all this legal stuff the real money transfer license it's just a headache that they
don't it's like they don't even need you know there was and also charge back stuff it is crazy
i remember so a lot of people don't know this but on steam there was actually crypto integrated games
at one point in time like for a very short amount of time steam had crypto integrated games
and people would just charge back like whenever you have like custodial wallets and people can
use credit cards to buy stuff that can then be sold for crypto people buy with their credit card
get the crypto item or what this actually happened on royal so on blouse platform royal people like in
the early days people found ways to and this happens all the time where you can use credit
card they would buy one of the quote unquote nfts and then they would sell it on open sea get the
the eth whatever it was and then charge back their credit card or or say the credit card
was stolen and then they essentially doubled their money so that's another big problem with
this stuff as well it's too much of a headache there's too much i don't even think
it needs it it doesn't increase my injury i don't want to play like if i'm playing grand theft auto
i just want to steal cars and fly helicopters i don't really care about making money in the game
and this is a big big part of the conversation with these quote unquote play to earn games
or whatever it is like axi infinity we call it the axi death spiral whenever you have a token
or anything of that nature it inevitably leads to zero they just all trend to zero it's just
the way it is except a very very few subset of you know of projects and that's always going to be
the case in any emerging tech industry but dude something just an interesting fact about axi
infinity the smooth love potion the slp which was their first big token it was like how you
interacted with the game and paid for stuff whatever it was they have another one as well
it's like axes or whatever it is it was so popular that there was a there was a country in like
southeast asia i can't remember which one where entire towns would use the smooth love potion the
native native token to the game as their real life currency they had like completely abandoned their
actual native currency to the country like whole towns where the vendors the stores would all use
smooth love potion so this is not the Philippines it was in the Philippines in the Philippines so i
know it has not much to do with this conversation specifically i just think it's like whenever i
think about them like holy shit the bull market was insane i mean things were different but leap i
have a question what if you had to then negotiate gasses on top of that earning of a new skin or
a new token so they wouldn't do your gaming process yeah so the thing with the gas fees
is i think any of these gaming platforms would use either like polygon or some l2 or something
like i i just don't see them doing it natively on ethereum or some very expensive chain that doesn't
that doesn't make sense it's too slow it's too expensive it doesn't it's not even that's not
even the purpose now if ethereum you know sharding this and that who knows maybe gas fees come down
i think people forget that when ethereum was being used by a lot more people you'd regularly
pay three to four dude i remember paying 400 to mint stuff like it was it was nuts i mean the
gas fees were insane in the bull market especially like the shit coin season you would pay 300 dude
if the gas fee said $200 we thought we were winning and that's $200 in that doesn't even
include when you sell it so like you would have to and this is why i feel like the the percentages
are so high in terms of returns because you have to do at least a 10 000 x just to make
back your money unless you're putting in a large amount so i don't know ethereum doesn't
make sense for that maybe we'll use like aptos or cantos or fucking some other monopoly money
to to do it who knows um but anyway look we'll go to felix here um i am adamant about introducing
kids at a young age to stake.com i just think again gambling for young kids is very healthy
for the brain um i want to go to felix felix what's going on hey good good morning good
evening for you good morning for me um yeah i'm just here for the money glitch right i'm
just waiting for for the new for the new exploit there to to be grinding all day long
no but um i just want to throw in a consumer perspective because um when i entered the nft
space which was beginning of 2022 i completely abandoned any games like i was i was playing the
witcher 3 um pretty intensively i'd i'm still stuck somewhere in the middle i've never finished
and completely went like all my like all my attention and my creative like outlets shifted to
web 3 and i consider what we are doing here right now you know with with us being on the space
me being in a few nft communities i consider that being the matter worst part
right so the great thing about this is there's so many incentives everywhere to just create stuff
you can you know use your own pfp to to kind of create your own label or your um you know your
own little business maybe and i feel like this could be possible um in in a bigger game like
grand theft auto 6 which i'm very much looking forward and i feel like this is like very much
lacking because right now with games you're either just grinding or you're just spending
a lot of money um to hang out with friends online or just you know satisfy your addiction
but why why can't i mean is it so difficult for for gd let's say gda6 to just create an interface
like they don't even even have to create their own coin because that i think would be a disaster
but they can just create an interface where you can at least as a creator can can create stuff
which you can then own or sell like imagine like every you know person could create their
own little business uh within the the whole um gda ecosystem and and that can then be
traded maybe on open sea or what or whatnot but they don't even have to create their own coins i
think um and i mean i still remember the day if i remember correctly you know the days where
there were kids being pulled off or like caught on the street to mine to actually mine the world
of uh was the world of warcraft the gold coins i mean that is insane like people got paid to do
that like all day long so yeah i think there are opportunities out there i just don't know how it's
possible technically but yeah i wouldn't i would i would love to to be able to create stuff within
games uh that has actually real life value i mean then i that absolutely came forward with uh with
axi right like they had universities quote unquote where they would pay kids like people would own
an axi and they would pay people to to come in use them train them whatever breed them all this
other bullshit and then the amount of coins that they would earn would be more than the salary
they would pay the kids that were doing the thing and like there's like factories of that
shit for third world countries dude people were printing on axi back in the day printing i know
people that made just stupid amounts of money it was nuts they had the whole scholarship program and
i i wanted to try i mean like i was trying all the kind of play to earn metaverse whatever type
games back in early 2022 late 2021 and you know i like a decentral hand sandbox um gods
and chain was a big one too i actually played that for a bit and i made a little bit of money
on it but it the game was so pay to win in my opinion it just it was it was a rough one um
and then like skyweaver skyweaver's another one i like quite a bit and that skyweaver is one of
the most fair nft kind of trading card games i ever saw because even now you can buy the
best cards in the game for like 20 bucks it's probably because it's a bear market but
that's another good one um but when it came to axi i wanted to try it i remember it said you need
three axes to even look at the game which was fucking ridiculous and i looked at the price of
axes at the time it was it was insane they were like thousands of dollars a piece whatever it
was i'm not gonna pay five grand just to try the game it was crazy it was crazy crazy crazy so
i don't know things were really different also zed run zed run was another big one at the time
actually i still think zed run is one of the best nft integrated games that we ever saw
super in depth very like so many mechanics but the learning curve was insane you have you
essentially had to learn how to breed real life horses in order to be successful in the game
and i promise you it's not as easy as getting two horses to fuck i'll be completely honest
it was much more difficult than that you don't just put it's not like you're just putting on
sensual music and dimming the lights like there was a whole there was a whole process so um
anyway that maybe got a little off topic there also felix i just saw that i didn't even see
this tweet from before but uh shout out to you it's pinned at the top here i retweeted it uh felix
did these these pixel art versions of of the pfp that we use so shout out to you felix i think
those are super cool um i want to throw it we'll go to felix real quick and then we'll
go to the rest of the hands yeah so see i think that's a good example because i i liked to create
these just uh out of fun and uh and there was kind of an incentive right um but like i wouldn't i wouldn't
i wouldn't do this for like any any games out there right now i don't know like there's not
even the opportunity but imagine this like gda will have such a big budget um and and it's
it's a web two established brand um they like oh i think the problem with like all these web three
gaming brands right now they they they've made this the whole like um value proposition or
like they're selling phone right it's it's an nft game but um maybe if if you look at the
example 9 gig and meme land maybe gda could do something like that but yeah thanks for the shout
out thanks felix really appreciate you always a pleasure having you up here i want to throw it
quickly over to lady brains brains what's going on good evening to you good morning to everybody
else i just saw like you know bread the handsome bun in in the speaker position and i felt like
okay okay the conversation needs to be interesting and i was not mistaken because um yeah guys why
would we even um be concerned about children's gambling addiction while we could just let them
get addicted and then make them stream it on kick and just create another generation of
plateau influencers like business is business twenty dollars is twenty dollars why would anyone
like you know um but like honestly though uh as b brains we have been like i i swear i am not
coming to show as b brains we have been like you know developing this uh project gaming projects
for the past 16 or 17 months which is a long time and uh i'm gonna tell you it was like it it was
difficult because um so far like play to earn is nothing new like it has been like i don't know
since 2008 or so and um like the thing the thing about uh current play to earn in the web free um
sector is those game they suck as like they are so freaking boring they there is absolutely
nothing like you know in in there to enjoy and like people are wondering oh how can we onboard web
to gamers like no you are not going to onboard them why because like your game sucks and they prefer
to play counter strike and sell the skins and like make hell of money streaming or even like streaming
league of legends or something so like the the idea is that the game just has to be fun
and has to be simple because like you know looking at those games that we have access to right now
you need to set up the wallet then you need to sign the transactions then you need to like you
know do all this shit which is just like you know complicated and stuff so until they are going to
be like you know very fun games with very simple and friendly interface with fully integrated
nfts and like you know the technology hidden underneath we're not going to get any web free
gaming mass adoption i want to make sure that everyone knows and i catch my flower she was
talking about me they're not the imposter half-baked bread that's also on the stage leap i i want to let
everyone here know that you are in infringement of our agreement to have an exclusive bread
license on this stage in a given time and you'll be hearing from my lawyers yeah i didn't even
realize we had two people on stage named bread that's funny all right we're gonna do a challenge
here everybody changes usernames to bread and we're just not going to know what's real and
what's not we'll look at brains i mean i completely agree with you i think the pro i mean and this is
i think we mostly most people kind of agree at this point that most of the games that have
come out in web three have just been trashed they've been asked they've been boring dog water
and it's just a shame because the idea of a really good i mean people get excited about what
a really good game could be i mean most of us or a lot of us really came from the gaming space
i think it's really easy for gamers to understand nfts because we've been dealing with digital items
forever i mean even back to my earliest game that i ever played which was club penguin at least like
online mobile um mmo game club penguin had digital items too so when i came to nfts it
just made perfect sense i mean okay these are digital items just like anything else except
they're authenticated by the blockchain so i don't know gaming is really what gets me most excited
in crypto at least right now that in proof of identity so i really hope a dead drop is a great
one i mean i very rarely do i advocate for kind of like a web three nft you know oriented game
but dead drop is one that i really like and i've only played it a little bit because when i
moved i didn't take my computer with me so i haven't been able to play in a couple months
but that's the one by doctor disrespect and i'm not gonna lie it's just genuinely fun
it's just genuinely fun i like escape from tarkov it's basically a clone of that so i suggest people
go look at it i think it's 20 they have an nft that you can purchase like a genesis nft i think
it's a little bit more expensive i don't own it um but it is 20 to play which is pretty cheap
and you can make i think you can actually like make money playing it but i wouldn't
play it for that i just play it for fun and see if you like it so that's one worth checking out
and if you like the the card games i think skyweaver is a really accessible one as well
skyweaver gets really slept on but i think they just raised like 20 or 30 million dollars so
something to look out for um i want to throw we've looked at the parallely ecosystem the card
game stuff speaking at tcg so it's it's outside of the parallel ecosystem but parallel is a big
one too i don't know what the deal with that is are people playing it or is it just the cards
that are released it's they have a ton of nfts do you know anything about that no i i was actually
following because i know they they had reason uh their recent phase was to actually release a token
for a lot of their original mentors and owners and that happened like shit i don't know four or
five months ago but i was here good things and everything seems to be high quality coming
out of it but i don't know if it's actually formalized into a game like in a competitive
scene or not yet yeah from what i've heard is like you can't even play the game that you just buy the
cards so a lot of this stuff is speculative and there's things like alluvium and there's
have you heard of big time as well big time is another big one big time is like from some
massive developers i don't know what the previous project was but the the people building
that game have done some really big games in the past and i know they have a couple nfts out
like founder passes things of that nature so there are a ton of these projects being built
i guess the biggest question is is it too little too late because a lot of them the huge aspect
of their marketing is the fact that they have nfts and i think that's a problem i think that
if you are going to build a game and that nfts are integrated or some sort of web3 component
i think that really shouldn't be part of the marketing just build a good fucking game
just build a good game and have one of the value propositions be the fact that you actually
have true ownership over your items that's really all it needs you don't need to especially these
buzzwords metaverse this fucking play to earn that just build a good fucking game that's
fun to play and people will play it there's a there's a game in the space called castaway
anybody know about this one castaways anybody heard of that one was this the one on the floats
yeah it's the one on the float yeah so apparently and i don't know how true this is
but on twitter space host and i just say things without verifying it but apparently castaways
it has more more active players than almost any other game in the space i think has the most
right now and nobody i've never seen it all the timeline maybe like once or twice so there are
a lot of these games that have nfts integrated that have big player bases but don't get talked
about too often on twitter so i think twitter is just i don't know more and more i'm realizing
like the twitter side of of crypto and nfts is a lot smaller than than i used to think so
just something to think about um but okay i guess i guess that's it i'm gonna actually just wrap up
the space here we're almost at our cutoff time anyway i appreciate y'all so much we'll be back
tomorrow actually no we won't no we won't so um i i need to put out a tweet tomorrow just about
this but uh friday and saturday we're not doing spaces from now on because i got stuff to do
irl um and i think i think a little bit of a break is good sometimes i get kind of burnt out on the
space is about being completely honest with you i think also a big part of it is sometimes i just
don't even know what to talk about anymore i feel like i used to have so many topics and we could
just talk for eight nine hours every single night um but i just feel like it's the same topics
like tonight was really good actually a little bit of a smaller space but we talked about some
stuff tonight that we've never talked about we talked about like l2s for two hours like real
in-depth conversation about l2s and then fuck you guys actually did some technical shit dude it was
super i had no idea what was being said by any of the speakers for a good two hours that's how
technical okay i'm gonna go back and listen to it it was really good it was basically like naveen
and trevor just going back and forth for a while and it was it was really really good a lot
of good information there and then i really like the gaming conversation too we do have two big
spaces planned for next week i have two like kind of bigger projects coming in and doing some cool
stuff here so that's going to be pretty exciting and outside of that we have also some big guests
planned but i'm trying to do less spaces but more oriented organized spaces with like curated
stages this sort of thing just because i don't know i want to mix it up and it's something
i've been working on behind the scenes for a while but i'm waiting until i have like before i
start rolling it out i'm waiting till i have like just back-to-back bangers so i'm just trying to
plan everything accordingly so i appreciate everybody being patient while we figure out
the content and that's it look i love y'all i appreciate y'all so much we will be back
on sunday night sunday night where we will be back and i'm gonna get some sleep i can barely
fucking speak i love y'all i appreciate y'all go get some rest enjoy your weekend
and don't do anything i wouldn't do so basically do everything i will see you soon