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Dotsamahub & Apillon (formerly Authtrail) #TwitterSpace 🎤
Recorded: Nov. 9, 2022 Duration: 0:36:27Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. good morning goodness um just bear with i've literally just thought I'll start the space early just to make sure everything was operating okay, so yeah, bear with. Thank you. Thanks for showing up early guys.
As I said just now, we're waiting for, obviously, Apilon and a few other people just to log in.
So bear with us.
Thank you. . Thank you. I've just
just letting you all know I've just mess letting you all know
I've just messaged Nino and
Apollon just to find out where
Where they are but bear with us
I'm just waiting on a response now guys Thank you. . Thank you. . Thank you. . Thank you. Hi guys, yeah I can see you there Nina, how are you doing?
If you just hit request the mic I can switch you on as soon as you're ready
Hi, so, yeah, welcome everyone.
Firstly, I'd like to welcome you, Nino.
Do you want to start by introducing yourself, please, Nino? yourself please Neno. Yeah, that's it.
Sorry, I think it was my end.
For some reason, it wasn't actually verifying, so forgive me.
Yeah.
Would you like to start by introducing yourself, N and Apilon of course please? Yes of course, so thank you very much for inviting us and for everyone who is joining.
As you know my name is Nino Kutnyak, I am responsible and head of product at Apilon
I am responsible and head of product at Apilon.
And today we're talking about our product in general or in short.
Apilon is a Web3 development platform where we are mostly focused around building Web3 products on Polkadot
and utilizing different parachains and connecting them into single unified API,
where then developers can use simple APIs or SDKs to start building Web3 products.
So this is like our, how to say, really short non-technical description.
Maybe to put it really plainly, what we want to do is accelerate how fast the Web3 will come to commercial use.
And we're doing this by helping out the developers.
So, yeah, this is a really brief introduction.
Yes, lovely. Brilliant introduction. Thank you. I'd like to start also because obviously it's probably the main topic, I'd say would be the ago. At the time, I was at a different company.
Yeah, it's lovely.
Brilliant introduction.
And they were mostly dealing with data integrity at the time.
I think they even started with Ethereum and then later moved to Polkadot.
And then the team decided, well, Polkadot has all those great parachains
and we already have the data integrity solved.
Maybe we could start adding more features to the platform and utilize several parachains.
And at the time, they started looking for a CPO, for a new product person who is going to write this vision and kind of execute it.
And I was looking to enter Web3. who is going to write this vision and kind of execute it.
And I was looking to enter Web3.
So this happened this summer.
And we aligned on this new vision of Web3 development platform.
And because AuthTrail was mostly about authenticity and data integrity as a name, it kind of felt natural to just pivot away from that
and create a brand new brand,
which also aligns a lot with the developers
and all that Web3 feel that has,
and maybe less Corpo.
So I think we achieved this,
and I'm quite happy with the outcome.
Yeah, I fully agree.
I fully agree because obviously it's in the name as well with the API.
And then obviously using the butterfly to determine that transition.
It's, yeah, for me, it's a good name.
It's a nice brand.
It's a good look going forward.
Yeah.
When we were thinking about how to visualize this,
obviously we came from, you know,
caterpillar to the process,
the whole metamorphosis from Web 2 to Web 3.
And then we stumble upon butterfly effect, which is actually really close to Newton's
third law of action and reaction.
And, you know, all this was like giving us signs, you're on the right path.
You know, this is how Web 3 should feel like and look like.
And it's, yeah, and we stuck with the butterfly till the
end and uh here we are yeah yeah i like it myself personally i'm pretty sure a lot of people agree
with it as well it's a nice brand it's a nice vision going forward would you Would you like to explain your... Who would you consider being your main target audience?
Definitely our main target audience is our developers
who are either already in Web3
and are just looking to speed up their development
and maybe build some projects directly on our platform.
But we are also targeting the mass of developers who are still in Web2 who are thinking about
should I go into Web3?
Where should I start?
Which ecosystem to choose?
Is it Ethereum?
Is it Polygon?
Is it Near?
Is it Polkadot?
Is it Cosmos?
Where should I start? Why there?
It's a huge investment for a developer to start, you know,
learning about the blockchain and then deciding where to build and why there.
Maybe it's more natural to understand what is Web3,
but then deciding on the tech stack and how to invest, it's harder.
So what we want to do is, you know,
provide a tool where you can think like you would in Web2,
but whatever you build, the result is compatible
with Web3 vision, with Web3 concepts, right?
So this is how we are thinking right now.
So any developer out there who is unsure on how to
start with Web3 is more than welcome to apply on our platform and get invited as soon as
MVP or beta version is out.
And yeah, it's gonna happen really quick, and this is what we're targeting right now.
Yeah, I was going to say, because it's on your site as well,
I believe that we can get people to sign up in advance to use the platform in beta.
So obviously, I just wanted to touch on that
and let people know what it is that your target is
and how you see adoption.
Obviously, this was another question for you,
was your views on adoptions and what's needed to produce adoption.
But obviously, it's clearly aligned with what yourself and Apollon is doing.
And also with your target audience is actually a core part of that adoption curve,
if I'm correct, right?
Yes, you are correct. So in general, if we look at the adoption, what the main metric is,
like how many of, you know, normal non-developer users are right now in Web3. And reality is that,
you know, numbers aren't too great and and there are
objective reasons why it is like that it's uh you know we're still in the infancy of whole blockchain
deal of crypto deal the there is you know a lot of risk involved there is you know scary
tools that users have to use there are you know assets involved which are volatile, so paying for a service in an asset which
changes price during the day is also a new concept, etc. So in order for adoption to happen
on the end user end, we have to empower the developers first, which is a normal pathway.
We have to focus on tooling.
We have to figure out what of the blockchain development is hard
and how to make it easier.
And then, you know, all of a sudden,
it's not only a few of the privileged developers who are working on blockchain,
but instead there are millions of developers who are entering right now
and working on blockchain.
And consecutively, there is more and more products,
and one of them will hit the commercial use and figure out how to exactly onboard users into Web3.
We mustn't forget that the fact that today every e-commerce store has their shopping cart on their right side and logo on their upper left side.
This is a product of trial and error, of years of trial and error in Web2, where we went through different tests from primitive shops to something.
We figured out, OK, this is the optimal position.
This is how it should work like.
And now every store kind of follows this pattern.
So for us, for adoption,
in order for adoption to manifest itself
for users to come,
this process has to happen.
And we cannot, you know, make it faster.
It's going to go as it's going to go.
But going from our product, it's not only that our product kind of, you know, provides tooling for developers and says, here you have, now you can work easier.
Maybe it will affect adoption.
We are also going, of course, to our tokens, to our tokenomics, where we understand, you know, that good tokenomics and products are kind of intercorrelated through the business model.
And what we're introducing is proof of adoption.
It's more a term than it is any mining or whatever.
It's like a term which kind of explains and rewards and incentivizes the developers who will onboard most of the end users
to their Web3 product,
which is developed via our platform.
So yeah, we want to incentivize developers
to come to our platform,
develop and develop products which have end users.
And this is our two cents in the adoption game, you know, and that's how I see it
right now. Yeah, I agree with a lot of points you touched on there. And I do believe a major
thing is actually bringing the web to developers who already actually build the products that are
being used in mass today, and being able to get those to work
with us in web3 as a whole. So yeah, I like very detailed, very, very detailed responses. I know
that there's the obvious thing that everybody's interested in is tokenomics. And it was a word
you mentioned yourself. Is there anything you would be able to give us, in a sense,
just hints possibly on tokenomics,
or is it something that we have to wait for?
Just a response if you can.
Well, the biggest hint I can give around tokenomics
is that the tokenomics PDF is
already published on our website.
And maybe I'm announcing this too soon or, you know,
I'm not sure maybe marketing will not be too happy,
but we are planning obviously to launch it and, you know,
send out the email and to tweet about it.
But for those listeners who are already here right now,
you can go and download and see that economics.
But definitely, if I can summarize those 24 pages into something shorter,
something shorter. I would say like this,
I would say like this.
Appalon right now is composed of people who are
quite OGs or seniors in crypto.
What is important to understand in our tokenomics,
we wrote a white paper which predicts a three-stage
approach to tokens, which means we don't
think that we are able to to announce every single
utility already because a lot of token utility is connected to the product and saying like product
will look exactly like this in two years it's almost impossible because this is crypto and good products follow the, you know, the user feedback.
So it's very dynamic. And what we want to enable with three-stage approach to economics and business model is a dynamic growing token utility,
which constantly improves and aligns itself with the product path.
And the product path is, of course, something which is done in iterations,
which is done in releasing features, measuring whether they are successful or not,
and then improving on those features until the user is satisfied.
So this is maybe one kind of unique approach that we have.
And the second approach, which even further amplifies this,
is the fact that we are opening up the governance for developers,
for people who, actually for everyone who owns the token,
where the governance is focused around the product,
around the product feedback.
So developers and other users or just supporters will be able to come and say,
I think products should support this or that protocol next. So as you probably know,
our MVP is starting off by supporting parachain for identity, which is Kilt, parachain for storage,
for identity, which is Kilt,
parachain for storage, which is
Crust, parachain for compute,
which is Pala. And from this
point on, we're relying heavily
on our community, on
first developers who will
come to help us sort out
which parachain or service
do they need next in this
in our
platform for them to be able
to build.
And that's why, you know, the whole approach,
creating a Web3 product, which is based off the community,
which kind of helps direct where this product should go and the three-staged approach to tokenomics and business model,
this should now make sense altogether.
And everything else is maybe better to be read,
but these are like two points that I would point out.
Yeah, yeah, I would like, I'd just like to thank you
and pointing it out and pulling it in.
In brief, it was a very nice explanation as to tokenomics
and how they work.
Because I know obviously it would be quite complex for some people so you've brought it down really nicely now
i'd like to touch on polka dot with you as well briefly and how how you envision
polka dot being the core obviously as well Moonbeam, why specifically those chains for you,
if you don't mind elaborating on those just a little bit?
Yeah, sure.
From my perspective, I mean, I'm guessing the whole team
is also kind of aligned with this.
We talked a lot about this.
It's if today as a developer or as a person, you know, trying to enter crypto,
you walk through different projects or different layer one chains or layer zero chains,
like in case of Polkadot, and you see their initial description.
So whatever is there, you know, on the the website Polkadot is the only one
really mentioning web3 right so if we go really further back and we look at Gavin's vision around
Polkadot he said I'm not building Polkadot to you know fight with Ethereum I'm building myself a tool
to bring web3 faster and why am I saying this?
Because, you know, we all know that good chains right now are being ran or governed by governance, obviously.
So with this vision of Web3, and if you want, you know, to work in Web3,
you know, to work in Web3.
And if there is ever a question on Polkadot
where, you know, people have to decide between Web3
or maybe something else,
like, you know, some financial DeFi solution or whatever,
I'm counting on the fact that initial vision from Gavin
will make everyone point towards Web3 in the governance, right?
So this is kind of my explanation on the topic
because Ethereum is a general use chain.
It covers a much wider range of stuff
while Polkadot still wants to deliver Web3.
And there will be DeFi, there will be a lot of stuff there,
but this is part of Web3, so this is true.
But let's say governance will always pick Web3 future
instead of anything else.
That's why Polkadot is a great kickoff for this.
Yeah, I have to fully agree with you personally,
exactly as you explained
gavin's vision with the start of it so yeah i totally agree with you on on all views is that
we're here for web3 you know and um yeah i think polka dot is a main leader of everything going
forward in a sense um so yeah i would like to, if there's anything in particular or specific
that you would like to elaborate on yourself, Nino, or would we be able to squeeze some
community questions in possibly, would you be happy to do so?
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
Okay, so if anybody's got any questions, would you like to raise your hands or drop the question in the comments at all, please?
And I will say as well, obviously, if there was anything specific that you do want to touch on, Nino,
please just elaborate on any key points that you think valid.
Meanwhile, I can give a really short info on where we are at right now, what's happening on the development side, what's happening on the design side, etc.
Do we have a question?
No, I was going to say that would be nice.
Just get a little catch up with a brief of where we are as well before questions. Someone might have a question to that. So, yeah, that would be nice. Just get a little catch up with a brief of where we are as well before questions.
Someone might have a question to that.
So, yeah, that would be brilliant.
All right.
Okay.
So right now, if you would envision this platform, it looks very similar to some, let's say,
let's say either Firebase or AVS or Google Cloud.
either Firebase or AVS or Google Cloud.
So it's a typical dashboard where on the left side you have, you know,
services which you manage.
Right now we are talking about authentication, storage, and compute.
And this part is already developed, right?
So it's very close for us to release the dashboard where users will be able
to register, sign up, and then just wait for beta to release the dashboard where users will be able to register, sign up,
and then just wait for beta to come and start utilizing the services already.
So this part is done. The backend with microservices is done.
Frontend is done and polished within the new brand. And mostly what we are fighting right now, I mean fighting, it's really an innovation and
figuring things out is on how to implement Kilt where you can, you know, a developer can just say,
I want a user who will log in with email and password. And then we do it, everything what we
do in the background is still within Web3 concepts, right?
So for those of you who don't know, if you call Kilt as a chain via their API with some user data,
what you're going to end up with is a decentralized identity, which is actually a file,
and you have to store this file somewhere, right?
A user would typically store this under desktop or into this foreign wallet, which is right now,
these are the only two supported options.
So what we're trying to develop here
is some sort of Web3 encrypted vault,
which would be always online,
and users could be able to push those identities inside
and then use them like login with Facebook,
login with Gmail, like all out
for more technical people here.
And this is pure innovation.
It's like figuring, okay, we know what we want,
but where do we start?
Like, you know, if we put those identities on some AVS,
it's not Web3, it's centralized, it's there.
You know, even if it's encrypted, it's not Web3, it's centralized, it's there. Even if it's encrypted, it's fishy.
If we put it on IPFS, it could be slow.
It's also distributed across different computers.
Anyone can see those files.
So if we put it on AirWeave, the problem is it's permanently stored.
So wherever you turn right now in Web3, it's like you know what you want to do,
but you have to build a lot of tools yourself just to get to the point where you want to be.
So, yeah, this is happening on the identity part.
And I can say from my perspective, it's not only that it's hard and complicated, but it's also very, very fun.
And on the crust part, we're quite far along.
We're already managing our own gateway.
We know how to capture the files and put them on,
and then at the end also host static websites.
and also host static websites.
And the most exciting part,
which I'm looking forward to figuring out,
is utilizing FALA in this concept of hosting Web3 websites,
and figuring out whether FALA and their FED contracts
can help us do dynamic websites, not only static websites.
So, I hope
I'm not too technical,
but this is
what's going on.
And, yeah,
we are really pushing towards
beginning
of 2023.
So, I think first stuff
will be visible
at least in December.
And then in January, we will
start with closed beta invites.
So maybe it's also worth mentioning
again, if anyone is here,
a developer, please do
come to our platform, sign up to the
newsletter so we can invite you
really early. There will be rewards involved,
which is, you know, important to mention.
And for anyone who is not a developer
but likes the idea,
we are looking for ambassadors.
So you can also apply on that.
Just visit our website.
It's appalon.io
and apply yourself.
And of course, we'll contact you immediately. So I think
This is this is what I would like really point out
But don't be afraid ask me anything you want
Yeah, I love the way you answer the questions, you know, you give it you you almost give the answer to the next
question as well but I love the detail love discussing with you everything
Apilon and yeah please if if anyone here does have a questions you you're not
too comfortable to maybe take the mic just put a question down in text and I
can ask Nino for you so please please feel free
I mean we could give we can give a few moments I think I'm
I'm personally very happy with how the space went,
personally very happy with how the space went and I don't like to
and I don't like to possibly over-drag the time like some people do, in a sense.
And I think it's been a fair crowd.
I think the answers have been very well explained.
So, yeah, just give a moment if nobody wants to ask the question.
I'd be happy to call it there as well, Nino, I think,
and we could probably do another space a little bit later on
and catch up when we've got some more developments possibly.
But I was going to mention the ambassador form as well,
but Nino, obviously, he explained to you that that's live on the site as well.
So if anybody feels they want to go ahead,
please go to the site and fill out some forms.
Otherwise, yeah, I completely agree.
This space was great.
The questions were lined up great.
So I think we painted the picture of where we are right now, where we are at.
And definitely, if there are no questions, maybe next space would be more
beneficial when I have more tangible stuff in my hands. And like when I can say, now
you can come to our platform, register and start, you know, storing your files on Web3
free of charge. So this is what I have in mind, hopefully in a month or something like that.
Yeah, I think that sounds brilliant, everybody.
I'd like to personally thank everyone for showing up,
especially, again, Nino and Abilong for coming along for the space.
Yeah, it's good insight.
And again, as Nino said, we can catch up maybe in a month or so
and just elaborate on what's being done next
and what achievements we've made in the previous month.
So I'd just like to thank everyone for showing up
and call the space.
Thank you, everyone.
God bless.
