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🔵 DotSwap Live — Bitcoin Halving Anniversary?
Recorded: April 18, 2025 Duration: 0:52:27Space Recording
Short Summary
Exciting developments in the Bitcoin ecosystem are underway, with new projects like Thunderbolt and decentralized launch pads emerging, alongside strategic partnerships enhancing liquidity. The conversation highlights a growing trend towards DeFi on Bitcoin, indicating a vibrant future for the network.
Full Transcription
Thank you. we are back feels bad we got rocked yeah man the act is getting worse to be honest like
i've been in a couple of spaces in the past few days
and there's a lot of bad you know i don't know what happened connection just get dropped suddenly
i know maybe elon doesn't want people to talk about brc20 or no or runes or
It is pretty weird.
pretty weird
I don't know how much of that stuff you guys were able to follow,
but maybe it was enough of an introduction.
I caught a bit of the opening.
Like you said, you came for the token, stayed for the art.
Right.
Yeah. you said you came for the token, stayed for the art. And then, yeah.
Yeah, well, I could kind of just briefly overview again.
I mean, I think most people here,
they're kind of slightly up to speed with what we're doing.
I mean, I could go into details,
but we're just a collection here.
We're here to support Domo, Layer 1 Foundation,
Unisat, Fract in slot and uh you know these primary builders around the meta protocols so in any way
we can you know that's kind of our mission yeah that's good that's good and what are your thoughts
like have you been in speed up to speed with BRC 2.0 updates?
Yeah, yeah.
They'll actually be launching an Explorer soon.
I mean, we're on Testnet right now,
but it's not very intuitive for the average person to interact with it.
So it's going to be much more easy to interact with Testnet
in the coming days, from what I understand.
So I haven't been able to play with it yet but i'm looking forward to it
um but yeah yeah i mean you'll be able to essentially have uh smart contracts at the indexer level and uh lorenzo just announced yesterday that they're working to decentralize
the indexer and incentivize uh people to run uh indexers so i'm really curious about
and incentivize people to run indexers.
So I'm really curious about what's in view with that.
But yeah, so yeah, yeah, I'm following best in slots
as closely as I can and really excited about the prospects.
They're expecting it to go mainnet in Q4,
but yeah, but as soon as they get their Explorer out
and everything, I plan to mess around with it.
Yeah, that sounds like promising.
Hopefully, like it can really catch on and people can really know that you can actually
have a smart contract on the index level.
That's what you said.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
I mean, just like runes and counterparty and all the rest, I mean, even ordin Yeah, I mean, just like runes and counterparty and all the rest,
I mean, even ordinals, I mean, we rely on indexers,
all of the meta protocols and all of the protocols.
So, yeah, so this will just bring,
since all of these protocols rely on indexers,
this will just allow smart contracts to be implemented.
And then, again, with the goal of decentralizing the indexers
that I see that Unisad is working on.
Yeah, I think to me, like the most appealing
is not even the smart contracts.
It's just the decentralization of the indexers.
Because right now-
It's huge, yeah.
Yeah, even for BR20, we like rely on third party indexers.
Like we do try to compare different sources Yeah, even for BRT20, we rely on third-party indexers.
We do try to compare different sources so that it's more robust,
but for us, we are heavily dependent on that.
So yeah, that's good news for everyone.
And 32, could you please move on to our next guest?
Yeah, sure, sure.
So next we are joined by an old friend here at Universe.
What's been keeping you busy lately and how's your programs?
Hi, how are you?
Thank you for having us here again.
We've been building a lot of stuff in the trenches uh we are right now starting to build
as we talked before um launch pads using the dot swap liquidity that will allow users to
use the lunch pads and make contributions in bitcoin and directly creating a new pool on dot swap
and providing liquidity instantly without the need to wait for the lunch pad to finish for the you
know for the project to raise the funds every contribution will be like instantly deposited on the dot swap liquidity pool so users
can actually start trading these tokens since the you know since they make the the contribution with
which is something very important they can see if the token is uh if the project is is like providing
value then these tokens will rise in value as well and you'll incentivize more people
and attract more people to make more contributions it's like a cycle we also finished about two weeks
ago the the dot swap trading bots on telegram I hope you have enjoyed it and experimented it personally i'm having a lot of
fun with it everything happened so fast the swaps uh you know all the interface the dashboards
that we created with the top traders we are having a lot of fun just by uh selecting like the top traders from the leaderboards
and having like the notifications popping like every every minute with the new trades it's uh
it's been quite fun and it's uh it's actually quite profitable profitable i think more people should try it just to create like a small just to deposit like a small
balance on the the wallet that is generated on their telegram accounts it's the seed phrases
are stored in your computer it's generated like internally just like in SWAT just like
Unisat where the the files are stored in your computer. Anyway, just make a small deposit on it just to test it.
And you'll see that it's quite interesting.
And it's quite entertaining as well.
Just have all the things happening automatically directly from your Telegram accounts.
You just need to set up the addresses you
don't even need to care about selling because the bot really does everything you just set like the
parameters like the buy orders means like how much you want to try like each time it can be like
50 40 anything the bots will automatically copy the trade with the
with the order size that you have set up and you to take profit automatically as well in the
take profit percentage level that you have set up so everything just happens automatically directly
from your earlier mode uh yeah that's what we have been building so far uh we are
starting to build now as we said the the lunch pads uh we hope that you'll enjoy it as well
we'll try to contact some projects you know with that are providing real value anyway
it's it's intended to be a fully decentralized launchpad.
Initially, we'll select like a couple of projects to start,
but the goal is to be 100% decentralized launchpads.
Just like Pinkcell, I think you probably know it,
started on Ethereum and moved to Binance, to B bsc network they are doing exactly the same thing it's
just a fully decentralized lunch platform where everything is happening on chain and
we are only here to intermediate um like if something happens uh or if there's some kind of scam running, then we
intermediate it, but otherwise it should be like fully decentralized.
Yeah, that sounds amazing.
I mean, the Bitcoin universe, .swap telegram bot, I think has been running for
like two weeks.
Like he said, if you're not sure with it
try with a small amount of bitcoin and see if it works if it buys and it sells automatically
but i'm like more interested in the launchpad like i think uh you mentioned you're going to
like automatically add the liquidity like migrate the liquidity to dot swap so that one that makes stuff up like the radium to your
pump on pump the fund like launchpad or is that like exactly exactly exactly it makes you the
radiant totally you would be the automatic market makers so dot swap will be controlling like all
the liquidity and it's something that never it has never been practiced in the markets right
and it's something that has never been practiced in the markets, right?
Usually, like the launchpads, people have to wait until the launchpad closes and everything.
And sometimes it can get a bit of a mess for the distributions and everything.
And with this, everything happens automatically since the first contribution.
Yeah, and what's the progress of the development at this stage?
We are just finishing the front end of the marketplace, sorry, of the marketplace, the lunch pads.
Our dev team is working on the backends, has started to build the backends.
We'll contact you because we need to create the APIs
together with you with the variables
for the creation of the liquidables.
And once we get these figures, these variables very clear,
we'll just provide you everything that we need.
And then we can set it up and expect it
to to be completed in maximum two weeks i would say we are we are quite fast in building and stuff
that's awesome that's awesome yeah all right man i think all right thank you that's amazing i think we need to catch up with another one of our
old friends mr nakib we'd love to know what's been going on yo hey what's up what's up
so again hey guys i'm nakib you know um if you guys don't know who i am i've been been in the forefront of the whole Ornals BRC20 runes ecosystem since as early as, was it Jan, Feb, 2023?
And it feels like a thousand years working or being in the space, building fun stuff.
And I think a lot of you guys know, like Ornals ecosystem or the inscription ecosystem, I should say,
or the inscription ecosystem, I should say, it moves in a very, very fast pace, but at the same time,
at times, it moves at a very, very, very slow pace, and all this up and down kind of make you feel
that you've been here for thousands of years or hundreds of years, right? But other than that,
for myself, I'm the co-founder for odds uh um the permissive launchpad you were
number one and then right now for odds for anyone of you that have not read what's happening we are
currently doing a whole entire revamp for our website we have a strategic partner that we're
going to announce so basically right now is still in the revamped stage.
We yeah, I know a lot of people that reach out to me and asking when can we
relaunch Odza because they want to launch
in on collection and stuff like that.
That's where we are.
Odza is the permission launchpad.
We are still the only one that people can launch anything at any point of time.
And we have to kind of revisit all the things that we've built and adapt to the market, right?
But other than that, we are doing fun things.
First, on my personal level, I am building something new.
Not OZA related, nothing.
I am building something new.
I am building... I cannot share much, guys. But guys but you know this space is a pretty chill space all i can say is i've been deep into research
in the whole bitcoin ecosystem not just honors not just runes right bitcoin ecosystem and a lot
of people keep complaining that there's no liquidity in Bitcoin, which is actually not true.
If you really do a deep dive on the whole Bitcoin ecosystem, which I've done for the past few months,
you found that there's a lot of liquidity in the space, especially the L2s and BTC5, which is growing tremendously.
If you guys don't know, BTC5 right now is the sector in the Bitcoin ecosystem that is gaining a lot of traction.
A lot of projects are coming in to build BTC5.
A lot of new founders are coming in from different chains to build BTC5.
And I have a lot of credit.
I mean, a lot of people came to me and asked me, like, why are you so bullish in BTC5?
I mean, end of the day, I just tell just tell them look look at the entire crypto market when crypto falls when something happens
right btc dominance did not even flinch like usually when it's a very bad market you can see
the whole ecosystem drop down the dominance of the whole alt sector, Bitcoin sector, it kind of levels out
a bit, right? But Bitcoin has been dominant for the past few years, being now is on the highest
at 60 plus percent. And the reason why people are building BTC5, because ever since news came out by
Trump, you know, that they're doing strategic reserve. News came out by countries that there are certain big industries
accepting Bitcoin as payments.
This kind of opened up a lot of new Bitcoin buyers, I should say, right?
The ETF and everything.
But in terms of owning Bitcoin, you can see an influx of more and more people
from the trade-fine space all the Threadfire space or the web to
space buying Bitcoin. And this is something that they ask me a lot. Hey, Nakib, what can I do with
Bitcoin? What can I do with Bitcoin other than just waiting for the price to go up? And that's
where, you know, I talk to them, I tell i tell them you can actually nowadays you can go to
different platforms or different protocols or even different chains to yield your bitcoin like i'm
doing myself right i have bitcoin and now my bitcoin other than waiting for the price to pump
i am earning yield from different network like i think near protocol launch nbdc i think alex labs is doing something
really cool um sbtc and abtc where it's a five percent yield you get from bitcoin which is on
stacks right and then you are looking at different different i think there are different protocol
metical something that is doing bitcoin yield so more and more people are trying to build bitcoin
yield and how are they doing is very fascinating because it's up to them to choose how
they get the yield or how people can stake their Bitcoin.
So we are looking at a situation where back then people say that,
how can you yield Bitcoin when Bitcoin is a POW concept?
And like a stake, like most of you understand that yield comes from staking and where the reward comes in
is shared among the pool. Bitcoin doesn't do that on the simplest level because it's POW proof of
work, right? And there's no reward to be shared by the miners. But now people are being very creative.
So that's something I'm really looking into. And as such, I can say here, i am building a connectivity layer protocol which is still on l1 and the idea
is to work with every single company that is doing btc5 you know technically dot swap you guys are
btc5 right and the universe you guys are btc5 you guys are providing infrastructure for people to
be able to swap between Bitcoin to runes.
That is to me, it's considered busy finance. So what I'm building is I'm building a system where people from different chains can come to Bitcoin, right?
And then use my protocol to then interact with projects like NodeSwap and stuff in the future.
You get what I mean? And my goal is to bring DeFi into Bitcoin. interact with projects like NodeSwap and stuff in the future.
You get what I mean?
And my goal is to bring DeFi into Bitcoin, not bring Bitcoin to DeFi.
All these years you have seen a lot of Bitcoin,
a lot of projects make use of Bitcoin, wrap it and use it in Suwana.
They wrap Bitcoin to use it in base, whatever.
But why can't we have them come in into Bitcoin?
Why can't we wrap their token and come to Bitcoin?
And why is that important for me?
Or why does it sound so cool?
Because I want to make people that own because more and more people own Bitcoin
and more and more people now they can use bitcoin to to other than just buying runes and and or mbrc20s why not let them buy solana token and they can store it in a sim in a bitcoin wallet for example right like i am a bitcoin holder other
than what can i do with bitcoin and then doing yield i i started to learn about solana
so what i said is a or ethereum for example you don't talk about it ethereum is dying i guess
but let's talk about so on right is the is the number one meme chain in entire ecosystem
and the price will go up based on demand right so i have bitcoin so what people do now usually they
go to like simple swap they go to like cross chain swap and stuff.
They have to do BTC to Solana in a way that you have to do BTC to USD.
I think BTC to WBTC, WBTC to USDC, USDC to USDC Solana, USDC Solana to Solana.
Unless you go to a Sanchez exchange, you can go to BTC to USDC to USDC Solana, USDC Solana to Solana, right? Unless you go to a Centrist exchange, you can go to BTC to USDC or USDT and then USDT to Solana, right?
And all these are multiple steps you have to take.
If a Centrist wallet is so much, if it's a Centrist exchange, yes, it's very easy.
But not everybody can access Centrist exchange, right?
What about countries that cannot access centrist exchange, right?
Or they do not want to KYC themselves.
So they have to go to places like simple swap,
and then they have to juggle between multiple wallets.
They have to have Xverse or Unisat or whatever wallet, right?
For Bitcoin, they have to send it to a specific platform,
and then they have to wait and pray that the transaction goes through and then
they have to hold another wallet so i'm like why don't i just bring solana into bitcoin why do i
just wrap this um solana into bitcoin so people can just swap their bitcoin to solana and hold
the solana into into a bitcoin wallet just to take note, this is not meant for DGents
that want to use Solana to trade on Palm.fund.
This is for people like myself personally
who buy Solana because I'd rather hold Solana
and wait for it to go up
than DGent on Palm.fund
and lose Faktan on money.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Thank you, Nakib.
We've learned a lot.
I'm very glad to have you here.
And I guess it's time for us to move on to our today's topic with questions.
So sorry to interrupt, but we need to move on.
Yeah, great.
I mean, yeah, I want to say something. Yeah, definitely. It sounds cool. Like a connective
layer to unify all Bitcoin DeFi.
And I think you mentioned something that's really right.
It's time for Bitcoiners to eat.
Why are we bringing liquidity to the outside of the ecosystem instead of the other way?
Yeah, I think that's really good.
And I think the teams that we've been talking to in this past month,
many of them have a similar idea.
They're building DeFi or BTCFi infrastructures, whether it's loans, staking and earning yields.
I think we are definitely seeing a trend.
And of course, with the recent news of Tether that is coming to writing network and then coming into bitcoin
i think that's also a huge deal so yeah you're like doing good work i like the idea and hopefully
we can maybe integrate it yeah sounds good three seconds all i'm saying is i am like i am in direct
connection tether and i am gonna work with them to be able to use USDT to buy ordinals, to min ordinals, to min runes, to buy Brasset 20 directly on chain.
That's all. That's all I'm saying.
Okay. Okay. We're definitely going to talk.
All right. Terry Cho, could you please move on and let's discuss something else?
Yeah, sure. So thank you guys for all the introductions let's dive into today's topic
so um it's been almost a year that the bitcoin's block reward was reduced to uh 3.125 btc and
decreasing new coin insurance and reinforcing scarcity so i'd like to ask Domodax, do you think there's
any impact on the whole BTC ecosystem during this year?
Well, you know, ever since the having the I mean, there was a period of time at the
beginning where, you know, the miners were getting a decent amount of fees, but I don't
know, it's kind of died down ever since the halving from what I can tell, the fees that the miners are getting from ordinals and the ecosystem in general.
I mean, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I mean, there was a significant amount of back and forth at the beginning whenever runes launched right at the halving.
You know, there was a lot of congestion and so forth, but that didn't last very long.
And yeah, I think we're just kind of at the point where Bitcoin dominance is gaining.
And it's really hard for any other tokens, whether they're, you know, built on Solana or Bitcoin, to really get a whole lot of market share at the moment.
I'm of the opinion that we will, even though we're having, like you were talking about the United States potentially buying Bitcoin and other nations adopting Bitcoin and this mass adoption.
I do still think that we will have somewhat of an alt season.
And I think that's whenever we're going to see
a lot of the fees spike in Bitcoin again.
And at this point, we will have some alternatives.
We will have some layer twos like Fractal and so forth
to be able to mint and move off chain
if that does become a problem, that type of congestion.
But I think right now a lot of people are just kind of heads down building.
That's kind of my impression.
Yeah, that's cool.
So at this time we are still building and moving on with all this kind of like all kind of
layers or products. So next questions we are more focusing on what's happened
recently. So as you might know three DEX platforms they were hacked so I'd like
to ask Aqib what hidden issues were revealed from this time hack, and what can we learn from this event?
I think I don't want to point names or point fingers or talk bad about anything, right?
Because I use all of them and just to test it out and stuff like that.
To me, this hack is the one-off thing.
I mean, we have Omniti guys here.
They can share more.
If we can bring them up, you can share more what happened because all these three um
platforms that got exploited i wouldn't say hack exploited okay maybe hack as well
uh is due to the fact it is a three different hacks based on the based on what i think bob
mentioned his account was attacked first right and then somehow use i'm
not really sure how it got it happened to be honest because all the post mortem wasn't really
shared by the two others swapped um other than just what bob posted i think you guys can read up
on how he got hacked but it wasn't really clear as well on how actually he got hacked.
He just said he got the accounts got hacked and then other accounts got hacked as well.
And then people dumped the token.
So the protocol or the platform in a good manner did not get hacked.
It's just the accounts that got hacked.
Right.
The accounts got hacked on the Bob site and they were just dumping tokens that got hacked right the accounts got hacked on the bobsite and they
were just dumping tokens that were that that this account was holding and then not sure if they
have managed they made to withdraw it or not but based on what i saw the tldr from bobsite
the tokens managed to get uh withdrawn and then that's why they will refund the tokens back or
they will obviously they will refund back tokens back or they will basically they will
refund back the tokens to the users right but how it get it happened i don't really know
um same for the other two guys that got hacked from they there's no postmortem yet that came out
or maybe there is in past nights i just missed it but yeah i i can't really see how it got hacked. But one thing I know is this is the issue with custodial platforms.
Right.
Custodial platforms have the biggest risk when it comes to getting exploited,
especially if you work on having smart contracts layers on it.
And based on what Bob said said the third party smart contract
got hacked got exploited instead of the whole platform um so hope maybe the same thing for
the other two platform was it rundex yeah rundex and was it rich swap maybe it's their third party
smart contract that got hacked as well. Same thing.
Based on what Omniti mentioned, there's no same pattern.
I'm not sure.
It looks like the same pattern to me.
I mean, Omniti, you're here, you're speaking.
Maybe you can shed more light to this, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if...
Oh, hey.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Yeah. So we haven't made the announcement officially yet,
but especially if we're sitting in spaces
and you guys are asking us to talk about it,
we won't decline.
Rune's Dex has not made an announcement yet,
so I don't mean to speak for them.
We've been speaking with them as well,
and we've been sharing information about our attackers because it's relatively common in this kind of scenario that there is some relation between them if they're not the same person.
So we're going to post a longer explanation about this.
But if anybody's heard of fuzzing before, this is ultimately how I would assume this happened.
When you try to make a PSPT or when you try to, you know, manage a UTXO, there is a lot that can, you know, go wrong between the front and the back end.
So ultimately, our exploit was based on somebody just attempting to exploit the RIT swap over and over again.
It actually survived for a number of days without any throughput issues and without any exploit.
basically abuses the LP action in order to, you know, pretend that you are the LP and
extract from the pool that you didn't have the authority to extract from, even though you hold
a different XPUB. So we're going to have a longer description of it. But the reason I say fuzzing
was why this happened is because someone, you know, had the advantage of seeing
our open source code and got to sit there for days at a time and just attack the exchange. And,
you know, we survived many days of those attacks, but after a while, an exploit was found that we
were not aware of. So there's definitely more to come out on the other side of this. I will say
that Odin's exploit is very different. Odin is an official partner of ours, so I'm sort of comfortable on that one.
But Runesdex, we're friendly with them.
They don't have an official partnership with us, and I don't mean to speak for them.
So I'll let them kind of show their own postmortem as well.
But we've been sharing information, and we may have some similar attackers.
Thank you for sharing that. Is it Sheldon, by the way?
Yes, correct. Hello.
All right, man. Good to speak with you again. But I guess, you know, the lack of quote unquote,
smart contracts on Bitcoin main, I don't know if it's a blessing or or a curse but uh i guess for dot swap we are just
like counting our stars that we haven't been like been hacked or exploited like majorly in the past
like more than 500 days so yeah i guess that speaks to how like dedicated we are to the security
whether it's on on our front end whether it's on the PSPT construction,
we're trying to make it as secure as possible
because after all, there is some centralized component
in our whole user flow,
but we try to make it as decentralized as possible.
And when there is a centralized component,
we'll try to make it as secure as possible.
So yeah.
I just want to add on just a small touch on this, right?
Guys, look, right? This setback that's happening in the space, if you look at it, it's not that crazy.
Look at in Ethereum, right?
Back then I was in DeFi for many, many years.
I built KiberSwap and stuff like that.
And we see hacks like this all expertly happen billions of dollars in other chains.
So don't, don't stress yourself.
Don't say that, oh, this is not good for the, this is a failure for the Bitcoin.
Because of no, right?
This hack happens in multiple chains in every single time.
And it was, it's worse on different chains it's just not that
bad for us because there's not many people doing it but if you were to do it in the future i'm
saying is we should always learn from the mistakes from all the other chains that did it and make
sure we we make sure our security are foolproof right it doesn't matter right now whether it's
custodial or not right i i guess at point, people just want to have a better user experience than caring about
custodial or not. But just be careful and make sure your security is pretty tight.
That's all I'm saying.
There's a phrase that I've been telling founders for the past 10 years, which is
that, you know, like hacks happen, but how you respond to them makes all the difference. You know, if you're
not going to make a noticeable change in your product, if you're not going to make a noticeable
change in internal security, then yes, could be a problem. But I definitely agree. This is a healthy
thing for the space. And I think any of us who are around ERC20 tokens way back then, we know
how bad it can get.
Thankfully, there's no replay attacks around here because of, you know, just not account model blockchains.
But yeah, definitely 100% agree with you on the reaction and the sort of recovery process being absolutely critical.
Definitely, definitely.
We're all lucky we're on Bitcoin.
And then we're lucky that we have these responsible builders in this space setting up good models for everyone else.
So Dotswap survived from this attack.
And we are lucky to still be here
and having you guys to join us in our spaces.
If we are not surviving from the attack,
maybe we will not have these kind of spaces.
So I would like to ask Chu,
I'd like to ask, too, so what makes .swap safe and sound till now?
so what makes Dotswap safe and sound till now?
I guess it's just the whole strategy.
Like I mentioned before, we first make sure there is liquidity.
And it is a centralized component, but we try to make it as centralized,
as secure as possible.
And then once we got that done everything else is
trustless it's just psbt swaps and we make it uh first of all try to isolate it from the liquidity
and the whole signing uh multi-sig stuff so that it's more secure like it's not going to be affected
there is not going to be one single point of failure once we get that done everything else is
there is not going to be one single point of failure.
Once we get that done, everything else is pretty decentralized.
And if you're just swapping, you see the transaction,
you've seen it, you see the input and outputs,
and then it goes into the blockchain in the Explorer.
You can see it five seconds later.
That's how we do it.
So yeah, the non-custodial swapping,
that's how I think we can make it so far without any major losses.
Yeah, that's great. So another recent hottest BTC event might be Thunderbolt, and I see Norbert is here. So as the representative of NewMeads,
so could you please share about the Thunderbolt to us?
I think we are all very interested in it.
Yes, absolutely. GM, GM, everyone.
Thank you for having me.
I know you guys texted me the other day,
just wrapped up the other space space but very excited to be here
um yeah i guess you know going directly into it um we launched thunderbolt just like two days ago
ish on the 15th and essentially it's an upgrade brings fast transfers smart contracts and
pretty much asset support directly on bitcoin so it doesn't require any bridges um there's no
wrapping no custodians and because everything could be trying to keep everything in a bitcoin
score model which is the utxo model so there are two major components uh i'll try to pin the tweet
up here if you guys want to read a little bit more but pretty much it's utxo bundling and upcat
want to read a little bit more but pretty much it's utxo bundling and opcat and you know utx
of bundling itself allows the fast um seamless trans uh transaction between users and you know
opcat itself is the smart contract availability on bitcoin so yeah definitely exciting um the
past couple of days been i would say a week has been hectic. That's for sure. The team didn't sleep much.
But we should have a white paper going out later this week.
So all the Geek of Brains could read a little bit more about it.
And, you know, codes are fairly limited at this point of time.
I know .swap had just had a giveaway the other day.
So make sure if there's a chance for anyone to win um make sure to check
that i want check that one out but we'll keep on having some some more giveaways going
awesome awesome man uh it's you know it's always good to see innovations happening in this space
like uh i think uh what you guys had done is a good direction, like with soft forks of Bitcoin.
I tried to quote that, you know, soft forks.
I think what fractal Bitcoin has shown that, you know, we try to make little tweaks and
little experiment to the Bitcoin mother chain.
And then in a way that is not offensive to everyone else, it's still in the familiar UTXO system so that everyone can just hop onto it really quickly.
And I think the success with Cat20 and any other, whether it's Ordinals or BRC20s in the fractal Bitcoin ecosystem. I think that the success they had speaks volumes.
And I think that could happen with Thunderbolt as well.
So I love to keep watching you guys grow,
watching you guys develop and learn from you as well.
And if it's like possible,
we might even integrate it in that sort. Who knows?
Yes, definitely. Again, super excited to be partnering with
you guys. Again, the past couple of months has been hectic, for
sure. A lot of people have been building. I think there's been a
couple of pivots as well. But again, I think it takes time. And
at the end of the day, hopefully we get to see some more users
within the ecosystem.
I think that's all we want.
If you're able to grow the pie,
regardless of what or how we can make demo happen,
I think all of us are gonna be happy.
And it's gonna be a positive impact
for the Bitcoin ecosystem.
But yeah, you know, didn't wanna interrupt.
I think I'm gonna drop as well.
But yeah, you know, I'll be back next week.
I know you guys will keep on hosting this.
So thank you so much for having me.
Have a great rest of the day, everyone.
Bye bye.
Yeah, really, thank you, Norbert, to have you here.
And yeah, you guys, next week we'll
have Airspace mostly focusing on
Thunderbolt and new bit their product so um I guess today's space is almost near
to the end and but there's still a time for a final question so if you guys have
any question to ask please raise your hand and ask. Go ahead.
Now, I want to take this chance and ask some of the other guys. I've talked to Sheldon from Omnity, of course,
about our next upcoming version.
And I've pinned the tweet in this space as well.
It's basically, we've always tried to like,
position ourselves as the DEX, as the decentralized exchange experience on Bitcoin.
But of course, as I mentioned before, there's still a way to go, a long ways to go.
mentioned before, there's still a way to go, a long ways to go.
With this upcoming version, and I believe it's going to pick that to a different level,
for the liquidity providers, there is going to be a much better experience in terms of
decentralizedness providing liquidity on BotSwap.
And I don't think I have spoken to Naq about this so if you're interested you know dms
are open i would love to have a call with you to see if you're on board especially with what you
guys are building as well btc5 maybe we can have some sparks there who knows and to the yeah what
do you think yeah definitely definitely um for me right now, I'm going to, the launch is coming.
My new project that I'm doing, the launch is coming next week.
So do take note.
For you guys that just joined, do wait for the announcement
I'm trying to build just on the very small scale.
I want to share it.
I'm building a connectivity layer where my goal is to work with
all the BTC5 applications in the space. Instead of, you know, competing, I want to support. And since
there's not many people here, just let me quickly share what the name of the company I'm doing is
called Bro-to-call. Bro-to-call as in a bro in need is a bro indeed you know like there's there's a kind of
fun things i'm trying to build in the space um and i also want to kind of take this time to kind of
have some concerns i won't say it's a concern like something about how this space is moving
where it's a very touchy subject i'm not trying to be bad i'm just trying to be a bit of a devil advocate here what what the hell is a custodial
dex like is i don't know like how is it a dex when it's custodial you know i'm down if you call
it a swap i'm down if you call it uh bridge or whatever but to use the word dex you know you
know how bad it sounds like for us because other other chains you know they they
a lot of people that reach out to me and saying that you know like the bitcoin system is is funny
when you call a custodial dex a dex so what are your thoughts on this why are your thoughts on
this about the term custodial being in the same line, the same fucking sentence as a dex.
Yeah, I think from the beginning,
we tried to move away from it as fast as possible.
So the chance, once we have the chance
to make the swapping side truly trustless
without any custodial component,
we did it as fast as possible and right now uh
and of course like you mentioned we've always uh positioned ourselves as a swap so it's a swap so
yes people coming it's going to be called a swap yeah i mean you guys you guys got it right like
if you you guys know you are have some central component that's why you call it a swap right which is fine nobody will on you but like some i cannot i don't understand some projects
calling themselves a customer swap i'm like what's that what's that yeah i mean um but i think with
this upcoming version there's going to be less uh uh less stuff that people can use to call us
upon this topic.
I hope everyone...
Yeah, if you're expecting what you would expect for DEX to be, I think with this upcoming
version, there's going to be a huge leap for us going in that direction.
So yeah, but I'm not sure everyone else, like the team that you're trying not to mention the names of, but it's trying to catch the attention of everyone.
Right.
Because what I'm saying is we have to really be careful or be tactful in how we push our product right yes i know building a
stock bitcoin calling it a tax is sexy but what do what do you think other people say about us
right so we are all of us all of us are advocate in the bitcoin ecosystem
and if we don't want to be seen as a joke then thermal thermal projects properly guys like come on
then thermal projects properly, guys.
Like, come on.
100%, 100%.
And I love bro to call.
Yeah, bro.
So in Nakib's opinion, if you are DEX,
then you can't be custodial.
If you are custodial, then you can't be DEX.
Am I correct?
Am I understanding right? I mean, that then you can't be DEX. Am I correct? Am I
understanding right?
I mean, that's the basic fundamental of this DEX, no? Like, I grew up
understanding that DEX means to be non-custodial, even if there's a central expert in DEXing and whatever, but if you're sorry, then trustlessly, it's fine.
I guess that's what's happening with all the different L2s building their DEXs
and stuff.
But if, to me, the biggest component is being custodial, then you should call yourself like a CD5,
like instead of a CDX, I guess. I don't know, right? But now there's a term of CDX coming up,
which is some people are talking about it. But in any case, I'd rather it be called CD5 because there have been CD5 projects in
different chains, which makes sense.
Certain parts centralize, certain parts decentralized.
Um, so yeah.
Yeah.
Well, as I understand it with the, because we don't have smart contracts, when the liquidity provider sends funds, they can't send it to a smart contract.
So they have to be stored in some sort of vault, multi-sig, semi-custodial method.
With BRC 2.0, you could send it to a smart contract. With alkalines, potentially, you could send it to a smart contract.
I don't know what dot swap is cooking at the moment, but I mean, that's the main issue,
isn't it?
It is.
On the LP side, you know, it's to me on the LP side, it's fine for it to be centralized
because on Bitcoin, right?
But when it comes to user funds being custodial into the platform, that to me that's wrong, because
there are already solutions for you to make like a non-custodial
swap, like what .swap is doing, right?
Right, right. I get the swap aspect, right, right, for sure.
But with the pools, currently, there's no solution outside of
vaults and multi-sig and right.
Yeah, to me, there's a norm, which is fine for the LP side only to be custodial,
but for the swap side to be custodial, that means you just deposit funds.
I am, I'm not against it.
I use Odin's fund.
I use funky bits.
I use rune dex and stuff, but it's just that I don't like when it's being called
a dex when it's custodial.
I agree.
Yeah, it confuses terminology.
Definitely agree as well.
Yeah.
I see Omni just rest his hand.
What you going to say?
Hey, I just wanted to wait for a polite break.
I think there's a solution that I've seen repeated a handful of times, which is multi-party compute based multisig with threshold Schnorr. And I think that's not a bad solution.
It's a, and you said a handful of other platforms that I've seen. But I think that that reaches the question of defining a custodian. I don't mean to sit here and talk about definitions because there's not enough drinks in the world for that.
who could take all these key shards together and move this action.
I do think it's difficult to label yourself as a custodial protocol
when you have something that's very, very segmented
that doesn't have one person who could manage liquidity if they wanted to.
I say one person, but two of three multisig is not great.
I say one person, but two of three multisig is not great.
There's other ways to do productive one of two of multiple multisigs, but I just want to point that out.
I think that's part of the line where we get lost in the definition, because custodianship is designed, that word, it's based on fiat.
It's based on a singular holder of something.
It doesn't really explain like, hey, there's one key that handles this account, but that key is sharded across these servers and these servers have a protocol to handle it and so on.
I think that we do tend to sort of zoom out to the DEX label because it's very confusing to be more accurate.
I personally like the CD5 thing.
I think that that Web 2.5 movement was pretty productive and reasonable.
But, you know, it is difficult to make that meaningful in a market or, you know, in PR when you're trying to describe what you're doing without scaring away your customer base.
You can't start with the most complicated stuff.
You have to start with the familiar keyword
and then work your way down to something more granular.
So I just wanted to call that out
because I do see MPC TSS around a lot these days.
Yeah.
And I guess we all had a similar vision,
which is, like I mentioned before,
decentralized way of
creating things, doing more things with Bitcoin in the Bitcoin ecosystem. So I think we all have
similar like similarity in what we're trying to build, but we kind of get lost in terminologies and the way we describe the things that we're doing.
Yeah, agreed to disagree, everyone,
but that's why we're here.
We're hosting this space to connect and to argue and learn from everyone.
But I guess, yeah, it's good to have everyone here.
Love to see what you guys have been building and your thoughts on the recent things.
And Thereseo, could you please wrapping up this space?
I think we're almost done here.
Yeah, yeah.
So thank you guys for all your wonderful speech today.
We've learned a lot.
And I'd like to make a brief conclusion of today's space.
So two days before the first anniversary of Bitcoin having and under the current market
conditions, there are still many exciting developments within the ecosystem. Security
issues have been disclosed. New protocols and tokens are emerging, and to some extent,
this continues to sustain the vitality of the Bitcoin ecosystem.
And after all, fresh blood always stirs up some waves.
And DoSWAP, Domodux, Universe, and Naqib, and Omniti will keep paying close attention.
And the ecosystem now greatly needs
the collective strength of all of us.
We will continue to improve ourselves.
And thank you to all the listeners
who took your valuable time to join us.
And remember to follow Dotswap, Dormadox, Universe,
Omniti, and Naqib on X.
See you at next space.
Thank you to have you guys.
Thank you. See you at the next one.
Thank you. Thank you. Love.
Much love.
Peace and love.
