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DoubleZero Token Sale for Validators on CoinList
Recorded: April 4, 2025 Duration: 0:56:12Space Recording
Short Summary
The Double Zero Project is set to launch a groundbreaking token sale on CoinList, aiming to revolutionize blockchain communications and enhance performance for high-performance distributed systems. With key industry players involved, this initiative promises to reshape the landscape of decentralized networks.
Full Transcription
Thank you. While we get people in, I just want to make sure. Austin, you're here.
Hello.
Brian, we got you.
Yeah, hey there. Can you hear me okay?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Great, great. Yeah, I'm mobile. I'm actually parked at an electric car charging station right now.
So we're on the road and i timed it so i could
pull in and charge while we do the call but glad you could work man all working great uh nihart we
got you yep yep good to see you all good to see you uh raghav we got. And I think you're still a listener.
And I see Murr also a listener.
So once we add them as speakers, I think we're going to be good to go.
For what it's worth, I'll have to drop in about 30 minutes, too.
Cool.
That's all good.
Okay, we got Raghav and we got Mert.
Just say something so we never hear, and then we'll get going.
Hello.
Solana.
Did that work?
Solana.
That works. Helloo, that works.
Hello, I'm Mert.
No, you're not. I've got two Merts.
Watch your cosplaying as Solana, I'm cosplaying as Mert.
Awesome, well, thanks everyone for being here.
We'll get going. So first I'll just say,
thanks. Thanks everyone for coming. We're going to talk about 00, how amazing 00 is. 00 is hosting
a validator sale or token sale for validators on CoinList right now. We've got some amazing guests
for validators on CoinList right now.
We've got some amazing guests here to chat about 00.
So we'll just run through some intros.
Austin, do you want to kick us off?
Sorry, Scott.
Thanks for having us here and excited to be doing
this whole CoinList thing with you guys.
So I'm Austin Fadera.
I'm one of the three co-founders of the Double Zero Project. I run the Double Zero Foundation, the US company, and then our international company as
well as a director over there. And then we have our two co-founders, Mateo Ward and Andrew McConnell,
both who are the actual networking experts on the project.
You know, Andrew spent a bunch of years working in the TradFi space, you know, building out
basically like principal network engineer at NYSE and then Philadelphia Stock Exchange
before moving on to build Jumps Global Trading Network.
And Mateo, actually, his first job back in the late 90s was working at
Global Crossing, which was the first company to run fiber all around the world. And then he did
the microwave dish transition and shortwave transition before coming on to be one of the
co-founders of Double Zero. So excited to be chatting with you all today.
Thanks, Austin.
Nihar, you want to give an intro to yourself as well?
Yeah, yeah.
Not too much chat there, but I'm the chief economist for Double Zero.
And briefly before this, I was at Mistin Labs and before that at Jump and the Facebook Libre project.
So also excited to talk, you know, token economics, different things about the 2Z token and so on.
Awesome.
Brian, you're up.
Hey, everybody.
Yeah, I'm Brian.
Two hats here.
One is I'm one of the original validators on Solana, all the way back from pre-TestNet
days.
I do want to give a shout out.
I see in the crowd we've got MCF, also known as Mr. Smith
in Discord, one of my good friends, also one of the original OG validators on Solana. And then also
I'm a co-founder of Triton One, one of the RPC providers, and then we provide a service and specialize for DeFi.
So glad to be here.
Thanks for joining Mert.
You wanna go next?
Sure.
Hello everyone.
My name is Mert.
Pretty similar to Brian, run validator RPCs
and also we're both bald.
So a lot of things in common there.
And big fan of 00 and CoinList.
So thanks for having me.
Bruce, thanks for coming.
Raghav, do you want to give an intro as well?
Hey, hey.
I'm Raghav, CEO of CoinList.
Worked as an investor, founder, engineer, always backing amazing people, which I think the speaker panel is very much that. So excited to be here.
Awesome. And I didn't actually give an intro to myself. I'm Scott. I'm the president here at CoinList. list had been around since 2017, 18 timeframe
and helped Solana do their sale back in 2020.
So exciting to be working on this.
We'll just go right into it.
Austin or Nihar, either one of you,
if you want to maybe just give a high level of review on,
you know, what is 00?
What was the genesis?
What's the vision for those that are not familiar at all?
Yeah, certainly. I can jump in here and start. So 00 at its core is a rethink of the communications
layer powering all modern distributed systems and actually the fundamental fabric of the internet.
fundamental fabric of the internet. So this project kind of started
looking at the landscape of high performance blockchains and sort of realizing that there's
there's two kind of main issues we deal with today. The first is historically validator sets
have been dramatically shrinking. So you look at something like Solana, it has fewer validators in
Ethereum. But then you go down the list and you start to look at other new high performance blockchains and you go from, you know, 1500 validators to maybe 150 validators.
And this is really not because there's anything about, you know, software packages that are
requiring smaller validator counts or something like that. This is because the internet was never
designed to do what we're asking it to do today with modern high-performance distributed systems and blockchain. The internet
was built for a one-to-one type of communication style. My server is talking to your server and
we're exchanging information or loading something. But in blockchain, we have a pretty unique problem
set, which is there's data produced anywhere in the world. And that data has to get to 2000, 3000, 5000 different nodes in the world as quickly as
possible. And the internet was never built for this at all. And the technologies that are used
on the modern internet today don't really support that type of technology. But this technology
actually has existed for, you know, almost two
decades at this point. It's just existed within the context of private networks and private
networking. And so there's technologies like multicast, which allow you to send a packet
once and it magically gets replicated by hardware and gets to everywhere it needs to be, that are
just not available on the public internet because the business model of the public internet and the technology stack of the public internet don't really support this type
of thing. And so the mission and goal of double zero is to rebuild the communications base layer
underpinning all high performance distributed systems in blockchain by going to the source,
which is fiber. This is the unsexiest project in crypto. We are dealing with
physical fiber cables physically in the ground and running under oceans. We're not dealing with
software abstraction layers and new compression algorithms and all this other great stuff that's
going on in the blockchain space. We're kind of going to the lowest level possible and saying,
we really have to think about this differently if we're going to actually have these systems
live up to their promise
of competing with centralized systems.
We basically want to accelerate
what protocol developers are able to do
by a decade or more
by going straight to the source
and solving the fundamental connectivity problems.
Amazing.
Maybe unpacking that a little bit, from a practical perspective, what changes
in the world if 00 is going to be successful? What's going to happen?
Yeah. So there's all these things that you think the internet's good at, but it's actually quite bad at. So if you grew up in the 90s of the 2000s,
you probably lived and died by this concept of ping time.
And ping time in your video game is measurement of what we call latency,
which is the amount of time it takes you to talk to a server
and for that server to respond back to you.
There's also another important metric called jitter,
which is
pretty much the average latency that you have between two servers. And what you see on the
public internet is when you're going long distances, which blockchains ask you to do
all the time, blocks are built everywhere in the world, you get a lot of latency and you get a lot
of jitter. And this lack of determinism really holds back the performance of high
performance systems because packets start arriving out of order, data comes in in the wrong place.
And, you know, it's sort of like trying to pack your house to move without like any moving boxes
or any plan. You just like, okay, the next thing I come to, I'm going to put in this box,
as opposed to like thinking through stuff in advance. And so all of these types of systems
right now are not built to allow for high performance. And so if double zero is able
to live up to its mission and accomplish its goals, we have blockchains able to do 1 million
transactions per second, 2 million transactions, 10 million transactions per second, because the
software stack on a lot of these networks actually can handle much higher throughputs than you can really get through today.
If you saw, you know, demos at Breakpoint where they were running a Fire Dancer client at a million transactions per second using six nodes across four different continents, that was actually running on the double zero network.
And that demo would not have worked if it were running over the public internet.
And yes, these are all demos.
And, you know, prod is obviously very different
than like a benchmarking demo.
But the fundamental connectivity layer
is limiting all types of high performance systems today.
And this is why you see big companies
like Amazon and Google and Microsoft
running their own fiber cables.
Those large tech companies have already,
you know, for a decade or more run into the problem of the public internet is not performant
enough to do what they want to do. And no one's thinking about this problem in blockchain yet.
And so this is kind of what we set out to do is to do the exact same thing that all of the big
tech companies have been doing.
But there's never been sort of an economic incentive or economic ability to do before in crypto because everything was conceived of as centralized private networks.
And the assumption is, well, a centralized private network, it won't live up to the mission
and vision of blockchain.
And I strongly believe that's true, which is why most of the work we've been doing is around, you can sort of think of it as re-engineering these centralized high-performance networking technologies to work in a distributed and decentralized way where multiple independent contributors run the network.
There's multiple independent controllers running these networks.
And so you get the type of assurances you would expect from a decentralized system, but you also get the performance that you would expect from a centralized system.
Awesome. I definitely want to come back to kind of the network design, you know, economic incentives and stuff like that.
But I know Brian said he's going to have to jump, you know, in not too long.
So I'm curious, you know, Solana is already a very high performance network as we know.
But at the same time, you're excited about double zero. What are the,
what are some of the like challenges or things that you see that double zero is
going to be potentially solving for or working for and what brought you into
the double zero family?
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I can give an example.
In Tokyo, for example,
as was explained to me
by one of our bare metal providers,
the Japanese government taxes bandwidth heavily.
And so when we're working
with internet service providers or bare metal providers in Tokyo, the reality for them is they need to oversell their network capacity in order to really even be able to make money.
And since they're overselling, the performance sucks. Roundtrip ping times between Tokyo and Frankfurt Frankfurt Germany might be up around 250 milliseconds when
they should be half of that and 250 millisecond roundtrip ping time and a 400 millisecond block
time I mean that that's bad the it's really hard for a validator or a PC node in Tokyo to perform well.
And so that has to do with, you know, it's governmental.
Also, other issues in Asia with cut on submarine cables and things like that.
So the way to solve that and where double zero comes into play is by bringing in private fiber capacity.
We can start to sidestep a lot of those
issues that are present on the public internet. And in order for us to achieve the goals that we
have for Solana, we must do this. And interestingly enough, I remember conversations four or five
years ago where we were envisioning the day when we might have private connections between validators.
And here we are, you know, 2025. And here we are. It's actually happening.
So that's an example of why, you know, I think double zero is fantastic.
And I'll leave it there, but I can elaborate if anybody has any questions.
Awesome. Thanks. Is there anything, you know, we're kind of, it seems like we're being
gatekept a little bit by the public internet. Is there any like specific use cases or things
that are happening on solana or any other network today that we we don't think are possible uh
that are happening on Solana or any other network today that we don't think are possible
without this is there is there stuff that people are looking for you know are not doing um that
are really yeah can't be done i'll leave this for anyone i mean they want to jump in yeah i'll try
them in briefly and then i'll uh i'll let somebody else talk um but when you think about trading applications or anything that is extremely
sensitive to latency and requires high speed throughput on the underlying L1, that's the
use case there. And no surprise that it's a team coming out of Jump Crypto and Jump Trading
that's forming this because they see see you know the obvious problem there
yeah i'll jump in a little bit as well uh as far as new use cases goes i think that's always quite hard to predict but what excites me is really just about doing the fundamentals correctly
and doing them right, really without compromise.
You could say something like, well, we can already move money around with the TradFi systems,
but perhaps there's a lot of inefficiencies and a lot of different fragmented APIs and jurisdictions and extraction that happens in the middle.
And then we introduce blockchains, something like a Bitcoin or Ethereum. And I said, okay, now we can do the job and
move the money in this global permissionless network. But for it to be actually useful,
it needs to be useful for everyone at mass scale. And so double zeros are pretty large step
and probably the most neglected as a result, probably the most
important step in making sure that the basics actually function.
Even with Solana, we talk about how it's extremely performant and it is, but just a few years
ago, like two and a half years ago, maybe three years ago, people would see weird pictures of cartoon JPEGs
and then send billions of packets to get these NFTs to mint. And that has a lot of other
downstream effects where it basically bogs down the validators with a lot of spam that they have to
filter through. And then that actually comes at the expense,
or at least it used to come at the expense
of other regular transactions,
things that are just completely unrelated.
And there's a technical aspect to it, right?
In that there's only so much stuff that one machine
or a set of machines can do,
given that supply and demand of, you know,
what is the demand of block space, but also what is the supply and what actually are we making use
of in terms of network connections and, you know, bandwidth, which is why we said, you know,
increased bandwidth. But then there's also even the economic side of this, which is quite
interesting, which is to say that like
existing ISPs like the tier ones kind of have different incentives than something like a
network like this would have, where you would think that their incentive is to always give
the fastest connection, but that's actually not the case.
And as a result, it might lead to cases where you end up doing some weird hops, like to
go from Brazil to LA.
It might actually have to, it's not like a straight line, right?
It does all these zigs and zags to get a different economic deal where now this actually incentivizes
it both on the economic side, but also on the technical side.
So if crypto is supposed to be this new global engine of the world for economics and commerce
and finance
then we need to do the abcs very very well and this is a very important step towards that
awesome um maybe we can talk a little bit about the um economic design i don't know if you you weren't you already were kind of speaking to it. What is economic design?
How does it work in this case?
Why is that important to make this all function?
I'll defer to the heart for that, yeah.
Yeah, perfect.
I can take a stab at that.
So I think the way we think about it is,
for this all to work, in the abstract, it's sort of an interesting and difficult problem, right?
The thing that makes this such a challenging problem is there is a very high level of underlying physicality or physical constraints that constrain the network.
That no matter how much we set incentives, the distance between London and New York cannot shrink.
said incentives, the distance between London and New York cannot shrink.
And so there is an underlying map that the Solana blockchain runs on and that different
validators, RPC clients and so on are situated on.
And double zero's goal is really to abstract this away to the end user.
The end user shouldn't really care about where they sit and where they are sending a transaction
They should just know they're getting the best performance possible.
But yet on the double zero side, we still have to incentivize that very complex map
with all sorts of both physical
and manmade complexities layered on top of it
and take that and turn it into this very abstract layer
that doesn't actually represent
or sort of show any of those weaknesses to the end user.
And so that's where the economics model comes from.
The economics model is designed to take in
the different revenue streams of double
zero and reissue it back to network contributors, to those who actually provide the connectivity
that connects different core cities in the Solana ecosystem. But it doesn't just do that on the
basis of, say, traffic usage or the cost of the link or these sorts of things. Really, actually,
what we care about in the most abstract sense is this underlying value
function.
It's an underlying function of IBR record.
And really the point of the economic design double zero is to find ways of incentivizing
folks who just increase bandwidth and reduce latency or like literally mathematically increase
the product of bandwidth and negative latency when when computing sort of you know different different functions over the double zero network
And so that at its core is what I think underpins the entire system
Then there's a bunch of additional components that any sort of system needs it needs
For instance components to ensure the integrity of the system
It needs components to ensure that there's some amount of rewards available for general security, for general compute.
And so there are additional things that I think we can layer on and talk about.
But at its core, it's really that.
The incentive design is there to try and make the sort of very complex physical map look as abstract and invisible to an end user as possible.
invisible to an end user as possible. Going on maybe even taking that one step higher,
for so people can understand, who are the like, operators of this network? Who and who's kind of
paying for this, this service of, you know, yeah, both those two questions, who's providing it? And
who's ultimately the payer? Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.
I should I should maybe lay out the key actors.
So we think of it maybe as there are three or four key actors in the system.
Their end users are actually receiving the services.
They may be validated clients, they may be RPC clients.
They're anybody who wants to send traffic over the blockchain and do so in a very performant way.
They are the ones who pay for the services.
They will pay ideally in 2Z token. It's possible
we build some other sort of systems to make it a little easier for them to manage, you know,
their stocks of their native tokens into 2Z. But at the end of the day, the value of all of this
is flowing through the 2Z system. So they're the ones who end up king. The network contributors
are the second set of actors. They're the ones who actually have the connectivity. They have the leases and lines between different cities, they've installed them correctly,
configured them correctly, and they're allowing the traffic to migrate over those lines. And so
they're the ones who are primarily rewarded by the payments from that first group of users.
And then finally, there's a set of general security functions that are needed by the
network or general security and compute functions. This is a decentralized network,
but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have some amount of, you know, coordination, planning, routing,
onboarding, offboarding, you know, all of these sort of things that make make the whole system tick.
And so that's a sort of third set of actors, which are the more traditional stakers. And,
you know, you can think of them like validators for double zero. They all perform these general compute functions
and there's some token emission rewards going to them.
Awesome.
So for the current operators on Solana or any other network,
our, I direct this either maybe to to Brian, you know, if you're
getting involved with, you know, 00, what does that mean for you, like from a business perspective,
you know, what are you doing differently with 00 or how does this impact you either on Solana
or within the 00 network? Yeah, yeah. So I have a great question, right?
What should we expect to be different here?
It sounds fancy, but white papers don't automatically fix things.
So the types of things that we'll look for will be,
number one, we'll switch our internet service
or our connections over to 00.
If I'm running an RPC in Tokyo, and if I'm a trader,
also a trader who's using that RPC to do arbitrage trading opportunities in Tokyo,
I want to know that I've got the best possible data, that I'm not running 250 milliseconds behind
the chain.
And so that's a very tangible impact, financially tangible, for users and customers like that.
Additionally, for validators, it can be very similar. So right now, validators on Solana tend to be clustered in
the Northern hemisphere. And within that, Europe and North America with some in Asia,
it's very difficult to run a validator in the Southern hemisphere right now,
just due to the extra latency. And so what it means for validators then
is we could start to see more validators
in more remote locations,
which I think is a good thing.
And, you know, and or again for the RPC nodes
and for traders specifically,
you know, better performance,
meaning to better trading opportunities,
better profits.
Awesome.
Maybe I'll direct this back to Austin or Nihar,
but this question came up a bunch
from different folks who are interested
in participating in the token sale.
You know, what is the,
why do validators wanna be buying tokens today
in the network or what's the function of the token to them?
Like existing validators from Solana or Avalanche or FS
or any other eligible networks?
Yeah, well, the lawyers would be mad at me
if I didn't say that there's no reason you should buy the token,
but there's many reasons you may choose to voluntarily buy the token
if that's interesting to you. So to voluntarily buy the token if that's
interesting to you. So let me just start off with saying that. But I'll say, look, the function of
the token in the network runs a few different ways. So I want to start off with not answering
your question, but getting to a little bit of like, what are tokens for, right? And in a proof
of stake network, a token is a way of providing Sybil resistance
and making sure that there's assets at risk for someone providing compute to a network. So
you know that the Helios validator is not misbehaving because they have a bunch of money
to lose because they have a bunch of stake involved in the network. With double zero,
we don't have a compute layer. This is not, you know, a compute network or something like that. This is actually basically a stateless network where all it's doing is inputs,
outputs, and there's no like copy of data that's stored on the network. And so the token plays a
little bit of a different role. We'll go into some of how of like the reward economics and
components work with Nihar, but, but you know validators and rpcs operating
on the network will use the token as not exactly a gas token again because you're not buying compute
but the the token represents basically the ability to broadcast on the network and there's a few
different uh ways that that that will work so you, for example, in the roadmap, we have prioritized data,
and prioritized data is not something that will be live in 2025. It's it's it's further out.
But prioritized data, you know, when that when that is built out, basically allow someone to
say, I always want to make sure my packets are moving over the fastest route. And that may be
of interest to, you know, folks who are trying to land Gito bundles that may be of interest to, you know, folks who are trying to land Gito
bundles that may be of interest to MEV searchers, traders, they really want to make sure they're
getting the fastest path from point A to point B. So it's one kind of function of the token
in the network. The other is, you know, validators pay a seat fee basically to operate on that
network. And that's assessed at 5% of earnings.
And so the double zero token is then basically a way to incentivize bandwidth providers as
well because we'll take those earnings coming from validators and RPCs and other operators
that gets swapped into the double zero native token.
A portion of that token is burned and another portion. And then the
other, the remaining is distributed out to bandwidth providers and network contributors,
according to basically a Shapley value formula, which says, you know, in effect, how valuable is
their contribution to the network and how much worse would the network be if that specific link
didn't exist, especially in a relative basis to the public internet alternatives.
And so we, as Nihar said before, we basically have a function that, you know, economically
represents increased bandwidth, reduced latency, and the best way in the world that humans have
ever come up with to get a bunch of people unrelated to each other involved in the same
project and aligned at the same mission statement is a token.
Awesome. Yeah, I agree.
I mean, we've seen many, many examples of different networks,
different use cases that have bootstrapped via some type of token supply,
and that part is, I mean, at least well-established.
I'm curious in your case, you know, long-term or maybe short-term, I don't know.
You know, it's a fiber network.
It's an internet network itself.
It's separate from the existing world or could be. What do you think people are
going to be digging fiber tomorrow? Or what is the way that people are going to be getting
involved at the early stages? So there is actually a lot of sort of underutilized fiber
out there. And it comes primarily from, from two sources.
The first are like fiber is sold in, you know, units of, of
wavelengths or sub wavelength components.
So you can sort of buy like one gigabit, you can buy 10 gigabit, you can buy a
hundred gigabit, you can buy 400 gigabit.
You can't really buy like 60 gigabits of connectivity or like 230 gigabits of per
second of connectivity. And so if you are an organization that says, yeah, we generally use
about maybe 70 gigabits per second, you have 30 gigabits of excess capacity and you have to buy
that no matter what. It's very similar to your home internet connection where you can't be like,
I want 430, you know, megabits per
second of connectivity. You can, you can buy a gigabit or you can buy like 500 megs or you can
buy like a hundred megs. Um, and so there's a lot of, uh, unused or like purchased, but unused
capacity out there. And so, you know, one of our major network contributors, uh, jump crypto,
they are contributing a slice of their global network and you know they're
contributing a 10 gigabit slice to to this project and that represents kind of a fraction of their
larger global bandwidth but it's an amount that they would like to kind of monetize through double
zero and support the project with we have other network contributors out here who are going and
leasing you know 100 gigabit lines between a bunch of cities all around
the world. And so from them, what they're doing is they're not installing new fiber, it's quite
expensive to install new fiber, they're taking leases on either a full piece of fiber or a
wavelength of fiber. Basically, like you can put up to I, about 140 different waves of light through these pieces of glass.
And so you can basically buy or lease, in this case, a full wavelength of spectrum.
And that entitles you to usually 100 or 400 gigabits of connectivity from that.
And so I know we got pretty technical on fiber pretty quickly there,
but there is a lot of capacity you can go out and lease the same way that like, if you're like, oh, I need
to move a bunch of stuff across the United States.
You don't have to go out and buy a semi truck.
You can go to companies that will lease you a truck or, you know, just do delivery services
for you.
Yeah.
So someday I will say, hopefully we are actually building net new fiber or the double zero
foundation as a nonprofit is joining, um, some of these undersea cable consortiums that,
you know, help finance a cable construction and therefore are entitled to a certain percentage
of that cables capacity over the longterm.
Uh, maybe someday we're launching satellite networks.
Like who knows?
There's a lot of physical infrastructure to build out
if the demand for the project materializes in a way that supports that.
Awesome.
Yeah.
That, I mean, I'm definitely, digging new fiber is not cheap.
new fiber is not cheap. And so hopefully we'll see, but we'll see that happen, you know,
And so hopefully we'll see, but we'll see that happen, you know,
in the event that the, everything plays out in a way that, that kind of we're expecting.
Yeah. And I will say just, sorry, on that effect, like if you rewind the clock to 2012,
I don't think anyone would think Facebook would be the largest investor in fiber
of new fiber capacity going in. And today they are like stuff changes pretty quickly.
And like the more successful you get as a tech company,
the more you have to start thinking of the physical fiber in the ground.
Um, and, and so I think as crypto continues to grow in success,
continues to be a larger and larger part of the traditional financial story,
the social media story, like all these new use cases emerge, it will necessitate investment
in more physical infrastructure to support it. Because the other alternative is just the industry
is held back by the physical underlying technology powering this stuff. And I don't think this
industry is done growing, but I do also think
the ambition of the space is too small and we have to aim much higher. We should be pretty
disappointed that Solana can only do about 7,000 transactions per second at the moment.
Pretty good, I guess, but this is not the flying car future we were promised by blockchain.
you know, this is not the flying car future we were promised by blockchain.
No, for sure not.
And in a world that's, you know, a decentralized world, decentralized organizations, you know,
Facebook, as they grow and need to deliver low latency and also just broad capacity of
data that they're sending across these networks, you know, they have a very direct incentive
to do this for themselves.
But in a decentralized world where there's a network
that needs lower latency, needs more capacity,
send more data everywhere in a distributed way
or even in a pseudo centralized way,
it's not clear who's the actor that is going to step in
and do what you're doing without some type of mechanism, at least in my assumption.
Maybe Solana would do this. I'm not sure.
But I think that's, you know, I think you kind of need you need something like this in order to drive that function, create the economic incentives around it for other people to provide that function.
And then the benefit flows to all those distributed systems. around it for other people to provide that function.
And then the benefit flows to all those distributed systems.
I know we've got like maybe seven minutes left before we run.
Maybe we can talk a little bit more about the sale itself.
And it's obviously focused on these validators
on these different networks.
Why is my first question.
Like, how did you come up with this, like, structure of design?
What's important about capturing these particular operators?
And, you know, that'd be great.
Yes, the origin of the yeah, that'd be great. Yes.
The origin of the project very much is Solana and the problem set and product market fit
that Solana offers, but there are many high performance blockchains out here today.
And so, you know, I think in a, in a perfect world of unlimited resources, we would have
been able to include all high performance and permissionless blockchain
systems as folks who could participate in this. But what we looked around is basically at what are
the highly performant networks of today or the networks that have very credible technology
bets to become highly performant and also have a set of operators that are not permissioned.
Because I think permissioned operators are certainly interesting
and they're part of the long-term blockchain story.
But it's a different relationship between operators
who are willing to take a bet on a brand new network.
I think Triton1 and Brian Long really embody this
as some of the early, early infrastructure supporters
of the Solana early infrastructure supporters of the
Solana network. Um, and the individual validators themselves who were running stuff from the early
days. I mean, like folks like, like Mert and Helios that stuck through the network, through
the depths of FTX, like these are the type of validators that, that you, you really want backing
networks and systems. And so, uh, that was kind of the thinking through a lot of this process.
And this also is like, I will say like a true utility token sale, right? Validators are folks who will, if they choose to use double zero in the future, need double zero tokens. RPCs are folks
who need double zero tokens. And so this was sort of a very straightforward classic example of a
utility-based token sale
to credible builders who hopefully will be using the network into the future.
It also is kind of this definition of like, what is community?
And there are spheres of community, right?
What is the core community of any blockchain?
It's the developers who are building applications on top of it.
What is the version of that for 00?
Well, it's first and foremost network contributors
and second after network contributors
are validators and infrastructure operators.
It's folks from JITO, it's folks from Helios,
it's folks from Triton,
it's folks from any of these systems
that will be building and operating infrastructure
on top of 00.
And those are the folks that, you know,
Vana did this really interesting thing
accidentally in the beginning where Solana Labs was almost going out of business in late 2020
because the network hadn't caught product market fit. And, you know, it was pretty rough time to
launch a network back then, if you guys remember what 2020 was like. And, you know, this was one
of the really cool things they did is they did this validator sale. And it was a. And, you know, this was one of the really cool things they did is they did this,
this validator sale, and it was a strategic move, but it was also just like they were running out
of cash and like the validators believed in the future of the network. And it ended up being such
a powerful force for long term alignment on the operator side. And so this is an attempt to,
you know, replicate a little bit of that functionality today with one of the most important communities for the success of 00, which are node operators.
And we've talked a lot about Solana.
I mean, maybe it'd be interesting also just to touch on, I think you touched on a little bit, but like what opportunities are there for, you
know, those avalanche validators or Aptos or Sweetie or whoever, you know, including
them in the sale and what can they, can they do on the network going forward?
Yeah. So like double zero, you know, our, our long-term vision extends beyond Solana
and beyond blockchain too, right?
We want to build a fundamental new infrastructure layer for all high-performance distributed systems built on blockchain or not.
And so, you know, this is a big tent project.
And as such, we wanted a big tent of folks able to participate in it.
And the folks at CoinList were really instrumental in helping make this happen.
Like the engineering team there did a ton of work to make it possible to sign and authenticate your
validator on a whole bunch of different networks. And so, yeah, big, big shout out to the engineering
folks at CoinList who spent a lot of time to make this happen. Appreciate a shout out. And yes, I
agree. Did a bunch of work and i'm excited for you know these
other other networks to go participate as well um there is there is a huge opportunity here and
it is not going to be limited to solana um what about the kind of end user i know we're not doing
any you know there's no there's no sale there's no sale. There's no nothing, but like the users of the, of the network or the, of Solana or any
of these other places, what is like, what, what can they expect?
Not just, you know, I'm not specifically speaking about any like tokens or anything
like that, but like, what should they expect out of, you know, double, like double zero
when it, you know, fully functioning, working, how are they going to see the impact?
Yeah. So, you know, I've kind of described this as like,
users don't interface with Jito or Flashbots for the most part.
They don't interface with Helios. They don't interface with Triton 1.
What they just experience are systems that work and are much more performant and much more snappy
and give them a lot of like benefits and performance.
And so, you know, from a user standpoint,
like a retail user of Phantom or SoulFlare and Jupyter
and, you know, all these other systems,
hopefully they kind of don't notice anything
except everything's getting better and faster, right?
Like they don't really have to do anything different.
It's not like they're going to have to submit transactions in a different way. RPC providers, you know,
may choose to operate on double zero and pass some of those benefits on.
If you're a market maker or a professional trader, you're going to have a much more
consistent experience of trying to get ordered in and canceled in and all those other sorts
of things when operating on distributed systems that support double zero. And so I think we're really excited for a world where just
there's less friction, everything's like more smooth and more direct. For protocol developers,
you have a whole new toolkit available to you, you can push the bounds of what's possible,
we can push 100 million CUs on Solana and then 150 million CUs on Solana.
We can scale validator sets without having to worry about the overhead of turbine or
the overhead of Raptor cast, or how do we propagate state out to, you know, the far
corners of the world, because we'll have fiber connectivity out to these areas to make that
possible.
And so, you know, I'll say one of the really cool things I know,
I think it was Brian brought up, like Latin America validators are really hard to operate.
We have a network contributor who will be bringing in connectivity into Sao Paulo in Brazil,
and this will hopefully benefit validators that are trying to operate profitably out of Latin
America. And we can do the same thing in the Middle East and Dubai, where there's functionally no validators today either. We can push connectivity down into Africa as well. And so, you know, this will be a
decentralizing force as well as a performance enhancing force for all high performance
distributed systems that choose to operate on double zero. That's the vision.
Is there any way for, if you're not a validator right now, for anything that users, whether
they're end retail users, market makers, all these different stakeholders, like that they
should be thinking about doing, how do they like get involved in the project?
Yeah.
So if you go to double zero dot XYZ, there's a whole onboarding section for validators right now
who want to join the live testnet.
And our testnet's a little bit different than most testnets.
You're running a Solana mainnet validator on the 00 testnet.
So they're kind of slowest fiber connections, but it is still globally distributed.
And we're getting a bunch of data and a huge thanks to the early folks who've been involved in that process.
If you are someone who works in an organization
or that has access to fiber
or you have connections into folks
who have access to fiber,
we'd love to talk about
expanding the contributor group as well.
We have five really exceptional
network contributors at the moment,
but we're always looking at more
to build out global connectivity.
And if you are an L1 or L2 that wants to IBRL,
yeah, DMs are open.
We'd love to chat as well.
And what about for the other kind of stakeholders,
like the end user or whoever?
Can they do anything right now
or any way for them to get connected and participate?
At the moment, I mean, like, talk to your validator Can I do anything right now or any way for them to get connected and participate?
At the moment, I mean, like, talk to your validator about joining 00network. Talk to your RPC about, you know, joining 00network.
At the moment, no, there's not much from that side of things.
You know, we are, as we sort of said, like, rolling out Testnet at the moment.
We're in a pretty good state with that.
We're hoping to launch sometime in Q3,
that we all know how roadmaps go in blockchain.
So I got my fingers crossed though,
that we're gonna be able to meet that one.
Nice.
And yeah, for any of the validators,
trying to join the test net,
participate if you can, if you got bandwidth.
Also obviously come join the token sale on CoinList.
That's available to people in the US,
as well as anyone around the world.
I know this is, you know, we've shifted over administrations,
and this is one of the first sales that's publicly available inside the US.
I'm curious, you know, why, why that matters to you?
I think I already know the answer why it matters to me. But what was the what was the US,
accepting US people, which is not so common and kind of public sales these days?
Yeah, I mean, I will say that, like, it's one of these funny things where like crypto is global, and it has one of these unique properties where the promise of the early internet was someone that was anywhere in the world could contribute and build something meaningful and change the world. And that really didn't happen. Like the internet still like very much an American run place. And crypto isn't right, you have entrepreneurs all over the world. but the hub of crypto is still the United States and it's largely New York and, you know, New York
love it, but like, man, New York is rough sometimes. Uh, and one of the rough things
about New York is it's very hard to participate in blockchain activity from, from New York.
And so it was really awesome that the folks at CoinL were able to you know figure out a way that we can structure this where all 50 states are you know accredited
investors who run validators from all 50 states once you pass kyc and kyb are able to participate
in this offering if they'd like we're also able to have folks from all around the world who again
can can pass kyc and kyb uh able to to participate in the sale if you run validators.
One of the really cool pieces, and this is kind of like
shout out to like Mari, our GC, is we're actually able to do tokens.
So the instrument we're using is a token purchase agreement,
which is basically a promise for future tokens.
One of the cool pieces is if you're not in the United States,
that actually becomes liquid and unlocked with token Genesis, which is not something that's
particularly easier, has been doable before. If you're US, you're locked for a year because
you can thank your government, our government for that. But this is like the accessibility of this,
I was really excited to see.
And this is part of why we were really excited
to work with CoinList.
And, you know, welcome you guys back to the United States
and be a part of that story as well.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And yes, unfortunately, U.S. folks will still be locked for a year.
But I know that there's legislation that hopefully that's coming
that will help
address some of this and hopefully some of the rulemaking that changes at the SEC might
change this, but we're not quite there yet.
In a couple months, maybe we'll see some of this stuff come to fruition and that will
change it.
But for now, we're still operating under the old rules, which never precluded anyone from offering these things in the U.S., but we had, as I said before, kind of an activist SEC coming after people that just made it untenable.
But excited to have all 50 states being able to participate here.
come through the kind of key dates for any validators that are listening or that want
to participate so that people know what to do in the actual sale.
We have the sales open right now.
It opened up on the 2nd, you might see the announcement.
Up through the 10th of April, you can submit indications of interest to participate. That is an amount of tokens that you would like,
you would be willing to purchase,
as well as you're allowed to submit a price
that you think that those tokens are worth.
You're not obligated to do so.
And then on the 10th,
the indications of interest will close.
The 00 team is going to do kind of allocations for who receives it.
And then the following week, you'll receive an offer from the team
on how many tokens you can purchase.
You're not obligated to do so.
But if you want to purchase, you can.
And you'll be able to make that purchase.
In order to be eligible, you have to complete that indication form and then also verify your validator, which, as Austin was kindly saying, our team worked really hard on building this out to make it super simple.
But we're here to make it even easier.
If you have any questions, comments, concerns, I need help, just reach out to us.
We'll make sure that you get through that flow.
You need to do both those things by the 10th
to be eligible to receive an offer.
And then also you need to complete KYC and KYB.
That needs to be completed by the 22nd,
which is when the purchase window closes.
Nihar or Austin, did i screw anything up in the design
sale process does that sound accurate uh there's a lot of information there but uh i hope that was
accurate yeah yeah i think that was accurate i mean all of this i think also recapped on the
uh coinless page there's some faqs as a flowchart. So, but yeah, that is probably the way it works.
Coinless.co slash double zero.
Come check it out.
Before we go, you know,
Austin and I were just speaking for quite a while.
Anything else anyone wants to add about double zero,
about what they're doing, why they're excited,
please jump in and speak up.
If not, we can now wrap it up.
I have one question. Austin, can you explain the logo to me?
That's a good question.
I think that's all the time we have today for the space. Thank you so much for, no.
So the double zero logo has this like very, this, this very funny, dumb story, but we were getting
ready to launch the white paper and it's just a bunch of engineers and nerds on the team. And you can do a lot without a logo.
Turns out you can raise some money.
You can launch a 40-page white paper.
You can get a bunch of people excited for this thing.
But we never made a deck for the project, by the way.
We were going out and doing this stuff.
We just had a long white paper and have calls with people and talk through this stuff.
But it turns out if you're going to launch a Twitter account, you do need a logo.
And so we were sitting there being like,
crap, what are we going to do?
We got to put something up there.
And so I grabbed the old Netscape Navigator broken JPEG image,
which was just like, for me as like a kid of the 90s,
this embodied all of the promise and potential and frustration of the dial-up internet age of like, you can go to a website and you can have an image load and you can wait like four minutes for this And that's kind of like blockchain sometimes, right?
For those of those who've been in the industry for a while,
there's like this moment where you're like, this is so good.
And then like FTX happens, BiBit gets hacked, whatever, right?
Like these sorts of like moments,
this like emotional rollercoaster we're on.
And so we went through this whole branding exercise afterwards
with like our great designer, Hoven.
And we kind of just kept coming back to
the broken JPEG as like embodiment of the potential and promise of the public internet,
but also all of the problems of trying to operate high performance distributed systems on it.
And so we decided to just remake the broken JPEG. We modernize it, we vectorized it,
there's slightly better colors, it's slightly poppier because we're not dealing with an 8-bit color palette anymore.
I really love it.
It's controversial.
It's juxtaposed with this very modern font
to symbolize the transition from one era of the internet to the other.
And so, yeah, that's the origin of the broken JPEG.
Love it or hate it.
It's our logo, at least for now.
I don't think Mark lights it, though.
That's kind of the vibe I'm getting.
I, yeah, that's all the time we have today.
Yeah, that's all the time we have today.
Okay, that sounds like a great time to end.
Thanks, everyone, for joining,
and hope to see you in the CoinList sale.
And as always, I think,
Frost and myself, anyone on CoinList,
DMs are open if you have any questions.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thanks. anyone on coin list uh pms are open if you have any questions thank you very much thank you
