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EASE AMA w/Douglas Horn | Chatting Tokenomics and More 💬
Recorded: July 16, 2025 Duration: 1:00:40Space Recording
Short Summary
The Ease Protocol is set to revolutionize blockchain interactions with its upcoming token launch and innovative payment solutions aimed at enhancing liquidity and driving economic growth. By focusing on user-friendly applications and partnerships with governments, Ease aims to facilitate mass adoption of blockchain technology.
Full Transcription
Welcome everyone to the Ease AMA, where you're going to get things going in just a second.
We're just going to get our guests and our hosts up here and then we'll kick things off.
So just stay tuned. All right.
We've got the Edge of Team.
We've got Josh here.
How's it going?
Hi, everyone.
This is Josh Krieger, your AMA host for today. I am so excited about today's first of many series.
And we're just waiting for Douglas to join us, and we'll get rolled.
Yeah.
Keep things up.
Josh, looking forward to having you here and thanks for hosting.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you. While we wait, Josh, why don't you go ahead and give us a little bit of a TLDR on what
you guys are doing at Edge of and the Outer Edge events.
You guys have been pretty strong partners of the Eaze community.
And not just Eaze, but you've worked with Good Block for years as well on off, and you've
got some cool stuff going on.
So I think this is a good time while we wait for Douglas just to maybe give a little bit
of a TLDR.
That, so I'm co-founder of a company called... You went down.
Josh.
Can you guys hear me okay?
Yeah, there you are.
Cool.
Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Thank you. Okay, am I coming in clear now?
Yeah, now you are.
Okay, cool.
So, yeah, Edge of Company has... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we've got Douglas Horn in the house.
How's it going?
You guys hear me?
Yeah. All right. Do you guys hear me?
Yeah.
All right.
We're getting ready to begin.
I think we're good to begin.
We got Josh here and you.
So, oh, it looks like Josh jumped down to this.
Can you guys hear me?
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, you're on.
Yeah.
A little bit of a technology mishap to create more hype for the first AMA.
It's great to see everyone here.
Exactly.
And Douglas, great to have you. So I want to welcome you all to a new AMA series with Ease
where we explore the future of blockchain that actually works for people for governments and
enterprises. I'm Josh Krieger your host for today's session. I'm also co-host of the Edge
of Show but here I'm just excited to bring you honest, thoughtful conversations, authentic with the creator of EAST protocol himself, Douglas Horn.
So, Douglas, welcome to NMA about your new endeavor.
Thank you, Josh. I'm extremely excited to be here.
Yeah, I've been seeing how people react to what you're building all over the world.
Most recently, we were just at ETH Con, ECC, in Con.
And man, I think that you're onto something.
But we'll let the listeners decide for themselves.
And I'll be asking you some fun questions, some hard questions, a little of everything in the true spirit of AMAs.
And our topic today will be Intro to the Ease Protocol in Your Vision.
So get comfy, get curious, let's ease into it.
Aha!
You caught that one, right?
Aha. See what you did there.
Yeah, yeah. right uh-huh see what you did there yeah yeah but but you know we want to have some sort of fun fact
to open up these conversations and before we jump into this first one i i have a fun fact related to
ease protocol uh that actually blew my mind and uh douglas i'll get your take on it too but i'm
curious for all those listening out there how many folks are
actually using blockchain daily and how does it compare to the those overall curious with the
government sector well here's the fact only 0.5 percent of the world's internet users interact
with blockchain daily which i i think we all find hard to believe because we live and breathe this stuff all the time.
But 75% of governments are piloting or exploring it.
So this is a bit of a shocker for me.
Douglas, what do you think?
You know what?
When you hear those figures, it's kind of sobering, but they make sense to me, right?
I know a lot of people in crypto who don't actually use crypto
every day. They're, you know, the, the biggest use case is still investing. And they may like,
look at, they may, you know, buy on exchanges and stuff, but in terms of actually interacting
with the blockchain, I'm almost surprised it's not lower, you know? And then on the other side
of that, 75% of governments have pilots or investigations. Yeah, I, you know,
that's really why we're here. I've looked over the years at all the things they've looked at,
and for various reasons like scale or accessibility or whatever, nothing yet had been built to purpose.
And so I thought, hey, let's, let's engage there. And there's a huge opportunity.
let's engage there and there's a huge opportunity.
Well, that's a great transition to the first question of this AMA,
which is what core problem in blockchain are you trying to solve with ease
that no one else is addressing well?
Yeah, so it's right in the name, making it easy, right?
Nothing about blockchain is easy right now. But what if it were? What if we could
make it easy? If we could make it easy for end users to actually engage, if we could make it
easy for corporations to engage, right? There's a lot of structural impediments right now that
need to be fixed for that and make it easy for governments to instead
of being an enemy of blockchain be a be you know uh use it for their own benefit and to empower
their their people to greater you know financial literacy and and inclusion
so ease we make it easy we can dig into that, but that's what we bring.
Oh, did we lose Josh?
We may have lost Josh.
That's all right.
We can always talk.
It looks like you've muted.
Yeah.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the features that sort of Can I stop? It looks like you've muted.
Yeah.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the features that sort of are contributing to making things easy?
Yeah. So we started, it all starts with the end user, right?
Or at least it should in a Steve Jobs sort of world.
world we should focus on the end user um we should build based on their needs first and then decide
We should focus on the end user.
what to what to what to actually build you know only then um but that's never really been done
with blockchain and i think initially it's because the the use was so great uh you know with bitcoin
that that you know people didn't they didn't, they didn't want to slow down by having a
good user experience.
And that totally makes sense.
That's fine.
But it's, you know, like 16 years later now, and we should have, somebody should have stepped
in and done an Apple on the design for users.
on the design for users.
And so that's what we're trying to do.
We are making something that anyone who uses any other apps can use
and feel familiar with and feel like they trust.
And we're doing that in our primary format is a super app format.
But what that means is you can sign up in a minute. It doesn't take forever, right? There's
no seed phrase to remember. There's none of these things. You could get that if you want. It's
available anytime for free. But generally, we think people don't want to deal with their
self-custody. It's caused so many problems, right? So that's one part,
just onboarding initially. And then signing in every day, right? Instead of having to, you know,
constantly be using helper apps like MetaMask, right? Which people don't understand or trust
and don't want to put their seed phrase in that they were told never to lose, right?
Don't want to put their seed phrase in that they were told never to lose.
Right.
So they don't want to use that.
So they want to use something that is more like Venmo or Cash App or whatever that they are used to.
The stuff they use every day or Google or Apple or whatever wallet.
Right. Those are the things that they want to do.
That's what that's the user experience that they've got.
They've become
used to and now without you know and crypto says oh yeah forget all that because but this is better
right it doesn't feel better to people yeah yeah totally um and you know i think this is like
a conversation that just doesn't happen too much in our space. Like, I think we get obsessed with technology
and we put sort of problem before solution.
So we're going to dive into that a lot today.
No, no, no.
We put solution in front of,
we put solution before problem.
That's the problem.
Correct.
Correct.
That is the problem.
We've got something neat we can do.
We're excited about something that we know how to do.
And with Bitcoin, that was absolutely the right thing.
But we got to start thinking about, you know, connecting the problem, the solutions we're building to problems people actually have.
Otherwise, we get all these solutions in search of a problem.
Yeah. And by the way, I just throwing it off because of my own internet technical
problem here, but you're 100% right.
So one of the things that you've done, Douglas, is you've equated ease to the windows of blockchain,
which I find to be a really interesting analogy, and you can take it a lot of different directions you
know some people have a very positive perception windows and not yeah so yeah
it's like with this complex history of windows and Microsoft what makes you use
this analogy use this analogy?
Use this analogy?
Sounds like you're cutting out a little bit, but I understand what you're saying.
So, yeah, I think if you... Yeah, I was wondering what makes you...
Yeah, what makes you use this analogy?
Sorry, I cut out there.
I'm just going to dive in.
Yeah, yes.
So, if you think back, I actually lived before there was Windows, and I used computers before
there was Windows, and I was a super nerd for doing it.
Nobody thought of using computers, right?
They were relegated to the nerds.
You had a command line interface.
You had to remember DOS commands, right? And in the exact same way as blockchain is right now,
all these impediments and tooling kept people out of it
and made it something that they didn't want to use.
Suddenly, Windows, and actually, of course, there were others before,
but we're going to use Windows because it emerged as the real leader.
Windows comes in, has a graphical user interface, which they got from Apple,
but Apple was very, very small at that point.
Things changed a lot.
It shows you the power of focusing on customer,
can turn you from a little company into the one of the biggest
companies in the world. But before this, people had to use, they use PCs. There was this feeling
that PCs could change the world, right? They're like, oh, this is going to do everything. But
nobody really had access except for a few nerds like me. Then Windows comes along and suddenly
people are using all kinds of
projects, all kinds of programs because they don't have to type run, you know, WordStar-D,
right? They just click the button and it comes up and they don't have to remember all these
comments. They don't have to do things manually anymore. They're made easy and accessible
by the tooling that is Windows. That is the first part of what I mean when I say ease will be the
Windows of blockchain. The second part is that after Linux, Windows is the most used operating system around, right?
It's no longer segregated into multiple things, its own Windows operating system.
It's what corporations use, right?
It's what governments use.
I was at the airport a little while ago and a screen was down for telling me what baggage claim my bag was on.
And, of course, when the screen's down, it's showing the Windows logo, right?
The Windows is behind everything.
Now, there are a lot of frustrations.
I have them, too.
I briefly worked at for Microsoft.
And I have things I don't love about it, but you can't deny that it is the platform that the vast majority of business and and serious applications run on around the world. That's the second similarity I see between what is, will be, and what Windows was.
I think we may have lost them again.
Give me one second here.
Let me just pull up the cues and we'll keep going.
Okay.
I would love to chat a little bit about maybe like the Autotask side of things, because
I think that kind of relates a little bit to what you're saying about the command line
side of things, where it's like initially people were like oh okay you'd like building on this blockchain thing i have to learn
how to code and i have to learn what smart contracts are and all these other things and now
it's become easier i mean first of all it's easier without an interface now you just vibe code things
but now you guys are sort of baking it right into the protocol itself this system for developing what
was normally something that was kind of gatekept to the developer community, like more tooling on the blockchain.
So maybe we can chat a little bit about the Autotasks side of things.
Yes, definitely.
So Autotasks are what we are calling smart contracts.
Just a little footnote here.
The naming of things, the nomenclature in blockchain is so bad that that itself is another another piece of the
puzzle that we have to solve for people right we have to relate things to things they can understand
smart contracts not smart it's not a contract okay so i won't go too far into and i don't know
if autotasks is the best name but i think it's more accessible and we'll keep working on that
autotasks are pre-made smart contracts
that are parameterized,
meaning that all the important parts,
instead of being hard-coded in,
are set as parameter values
that can then be set at the initialization,
right, when you launch it.
So that means a few things.
First of all, it means you don't need any code to do it. It's a push
button operation. You decide to deploy it, you fill in the blanks, and then you pay the fee and
set it free. That is going to be very powerful. Even though Autotasks, the first ones will be
pretty simple, right?
They'll be splitting a payment that comes into an account in a certain number of ways
or creating what we call a multi-sig wallet in blockchain,
what we're calling a group account because it's more accessible.
But it could be as complex as creating a loyalty token program for your users,
right? There's, there's a lot of things that could be done. It could, it could, you could use these
to put out a rating system and, you know, your own star system, right? There's a lot, there's just so
many things that could be done with these. And the problems of having to have an interface
and code and auditing and the fear of you get one thing wrong and it all is for nothing or worse,
it costs you a lot. Those things go away and they become trusted as they should be.
When you talk about vibe coding, right?
And talk about AI agents, right?
Those are two other ways to automate things for yourself.
The problem, and they certainly have their place.
One problem with like having AI agents helping you do what we have autotasks do is, I mean, AIs hallucinate.
They're not bulletproof, right?
So smart contracts or autotasks, they only execute one way ever, right?
And they just do one task.
They do it exactly the way they're supposed to do it. And then they're done. Right. That's not really true of AI agents.
And it's you know, you want somebody to you want that AI agent to assess something and do something different.
So it's a it's a really different use case. And for basic financial things, it's you know,
financial things, it's, you know, it's probably much better to have this built, built in, baked
in rock solid foundation than something that is AI or that you vibe coded, you know, without,
you know, and, and think works, but didn't get audited or anything. Right. So when we're dealing
with people's money, we want to be, we want to have that, that sort of nailed down solidity.
That makes sense.
Let's dive into the nuances of your users in this space, which is an interesting question
because I've talked to a number of Layer 1 founders about their users, And they oftentimes provide relatively vague answers.
And Douglas, I want to challenge you here in terms of being specific.
Who are your users and what are you trying to offer them?
Or what can you offer them that no one else has been able to provide?
That's a great question.
And I will tell you, in building this, the entire time building
this, I had a type of user very clearly in mind. It's my wife, my brother, my son,
some of my friends who know all about blockchain, because I've certainly told them over the years.
about blockchain because i've certainly told them over the years and they use you know cash app or
or um you know uh some kind of payment plat uh program um every day right but with all that
they've they've looked and they've rejected blockchain for the reasons that we know. It's hard. It's confusing. It's MS-DOS instead of Windows. Those are the people who I clearly had in mind. Basically, it's for people who could benefit from blockchain but won't use it.
who could benefit from blockchain but won't use it right now once people people who also like
other blockchains are also invited to the party um and we will have those but really that's not
who we're seeking we're seeking people who have uh maybe taken a look at blockchain right and they
they understand intellectually that there's advantages but it's just too foreboding, right?
So, and that can be an individual, that can be a business, that can be a government, that can be a large, you know, organization.
It's just something that keeps people out, right?
And we want to welcome people in.
So anyone who is unbanked, anyone who is underbanked,
anyone who would like this protections of this blockchain stuff that they hear about
because it could do something cool, and it all sounds cool in the Andreas Anotitopolis videos but nobody actually builds that stuff it's for them thank you for
being specific i don't have any follow-ups on this topic because you you you actually followed my uh
uh you you addressed my my direct request so so i appreciate that d, Douglas. And I want to move on to products and services.
This is sort of another one of those questions with a lot of L1s that comes later.
What are the core products and services that Ease is thinking about at this point in time?
That's a great question. And I want to highlight,
you know, sort of something at the crux of your question, which is blockchain, especially L1s,
tend to make technologies, but not products. That's certainly something that happened the
last project I was at, but it happens everywhere and and
one of the problems one of the reasons for that that makes sense is hey we're just making a
platform and we do all these features you can do but we're waiting for but we're going to have
developers do them the the real world problem with that is that the developers never come right
because the developers are waiting for the users to arrive, right?
And the users don't come until the developers are there.
So it's important to have products that people can use.
And a product really is just a collection of features within the technology
that are aimed at a certain type of user to solve a specific problem or set
of problems that they have so that's how i define uh product in this case that's sort of my own
definition so we are so so that's why i think it's very important that we've taken an approach of saying we are going to build key products.
There's going to be a lot of different products, but these are what we're going to be building.
So if we keep the Windows analogy, we're going to build Excel and Word and whatever, access, whatever, access.
And some will be more used than others.
And we're going to, but we don't need to build everything,
but we're going to build some core things that we know people need,
and that's going to bring the users, right?
So the core thing we're building
is we're building around the features
of being able to send coins,
specifically stable coins um being able to message with our post-quantum encryption messages system
being able to um keep track of of your friends contacts you know while maintaining your privacy if you choose. So those come together. The primary product is EaseSend.
And EaseSend is designed to be the payment app of stable coins.
And it solves a lot of problems.
Because I've been paying people with stable coins for five years or more,
I've encountered a lot of the problems that most people don't encounter.
Right. So.
One of those is.
That if I have USDT and someone wants to be paid in USDC,
I have to go get USDC and then I can pay them.
Right. That's an extra friction.
It's something we can eliminate.
And we eliminate that in Ease Send by saying,
with any two tokens that are on the system,
usually stable coins,
if I have stable coin A,
but you want to be paid in stable coin B,
then we will set up the transaction.
I'll know how much you're gonna get,
how much stable coin A I have to put in
to get stable coin B.
And I hit send and I've sent what I want
without an extra operation and you get what you want.
And that swapping happens at the atomic level
in the middle of the transaction.
So nobody has to take the time or effort to do that or expense. And so that, I think, with the proliferation of new stablecoins is going to be a killer app in payments.
And it goes along with all the other, you know, parts of...
Just to play devil's advocate, you know, there's just been this sort of, I guess,
independence between church and state or an L1 and product and services that are in the
market where they're sort of encouraging independent developers to build.
Do you feel like you're taking away ammo or incentives
from the development community by launching these core products and services?
And how does this sort of impact the overall governance model to be
doing both core product development on the l1 itself and specific products and services
yeah that's a good question i i feel like uh what i said before right in the Microsoft Windows analogy the need to make some of these core features these and not
wait for somebody else to come in and do them it means that they're going to be done well they're
going to be they can be used as the basis for other things and they're going to bring people
into the ecosystem because they're because there's actual stuff to do. One of the biggest problems I saw with Telos or any number of
blockchains, and it still continues even with the best today, there's really not that much to do
with them. You can send coins around, you can make an NFT, whatever. But compared to other
business software, there's not that much you
can do. And I think that that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, it's not going to be it's not going to
be enough to get people on board, we have to give people things that they can do, and have them be
integrated to each other. So why do we have messaging? Well, we can do messaging at a protocol level, right? Why do we have friends lists? Well, we want to be able to give people ways to
look into their, to track who they're sending things to, right? Why do we have a send? Well,
we have to do a wallet anyway. Why not do one that really solves a lot of problems and makes the service super useful?
Then users come and applications have users to build it for.
And I think that we've seen how it goes when L1s don't put anything on the chain for people to do.
It's very slow adoption.
That's not okay with me.
I think there could be much faster adoption if we give people useful,
valuable things to do to solve their problems.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, to be fair, not every L1 is agnostic to product development,
like Aptos and Sui have done some building on their own,
but it's certainly not the norm.
So I appreciate sort of hearing your perspective on this.
And I guess that it's a natural sort of next question is sort of,
are there any other differentiators in terms of how you see Ease Protocol sort of operating in the types of
experiences that will be possible on it relative to other DeFi and L1 platforms that are out there
that we haven't covered yet? Yeah, so I think at the core, and this goes to our products a bit, at the core, almost all blockchain projects are still targeting individuals.
And there's a good reason for that, because, you know, that's who they are going to be able to get right now due to the complexity.
You know, people who've tried to target groups of people, right?
Let's say El Salvador's Chivas wallet, where they gave, you know, everybody in the country, you know, some money in tokens.
And they found that because of three years later, those, you know, 90% of those hadn't been touched because it was too difficult.
So if individuals aren't adopting blockchain, then groups definitely aren't because you have to convince so many more individuals to get in.
But what if there was a way to make it easy enough for groups and companies and governments?
enough for groups and companies and governments. And so I decided to look at what the big
problems were that were stopping that. And the first one in terms of any large enterprise
is that they use enterprise software, the enterprise resource platforms, ERP software,
enterprise software, the enterprise resource platforms, ERP software, like Oracle or Salesforce
or, you know, Microsoft, there's a number of these, right? They have all their business
is set up to go through that. And here we come along and we're like, oh, well, we're going to,
we're going to get you guys using blockchain. And like, are the where are the plugins for our erp systems
because we're not using anything that's not in that format and then you know and nobody does that
so we've already done that we've already partnered we've become partner oracle partners um salesforce
partners and um there's more coming and what that allows us to do is develop products that are in their catalog.
They can sell for us.
When their users want to look at blockchain and look it up, they see Ease ERP.
And they understand that these things can get plugged in and not try to replace their existing systems, but work with them. And so that's a big difference, just in approach, right? And it requires that we build
a lot of tools and we make partnerships, but that is the way that corporations and enterprises will
adopt blockchain. It's the only way they can, right? Because they're not going to throw out their stuff.
Similar with governments, governments have that same problem.
They also have the problem that there's no way to really regulate blockchain
on a day-to-day basis in its current form, right?
Because they don't have the tools that they have with banks.
And that's wonderful.
And that's perfect about Bitcoin.
I would never want that to change
and it never will.
But in a different paradigm,
something that's designed for mass adoption,
for users to be easy,
to not have a contentious relationship
with governments,
but to be used by governance governments for their
own stuff which actually greatly protects the end users um we can go into why that why i think that
is that is another way that is an you know a key evolution in blockchain that I don't see anybody else addressing in the way we're doing it.
Unless, except, I'll take that back. The people who are addressing it are basically just handing
over all control to the government and retaining really none of the good stuff about blockchain
for the end users. And what we're doing instead is we're taking a middle path where we give what we think
the two core things
that governments will need to do
to accept blockchain to them
in a very structured way
that's very transparent
when they use it.
And everything else,
all the other protections
remain with the end users.
Oh, God. Nope, that's period.
All right.
So, so you brought up something that sort of has been on my mind throughout this conversation,
which is that Ease protocol will have its own token at some point.
And I'm trying to figure out why, because at the end of the day, governments want to govern and use blockchains in their own way.
They may be working with different stable coins, different technology partners, different uses.
Why does EASE need this token in the first place?
Yeah, that's a great question.
It's one I always ask.
And when I started, I wasn't going to have a token.
Certainly when you have a blockchain that's being operated by governments for their own
own purposes there's no need for a token right um but and and a lot of projects just you know they
purposes, there's no need for a token, right?
they claim its government governance of the blockchain or whatever but really it's just a way
to fund the whole project um for us there's an actual use case which is i mentioned that when
when i want to send stablecoin A and you want to get
stablecoin B and there's an atomic transaction that makes that swap that no one has to actually
do, right? That requires the system to power it. And that system is powered by what we call
exponential liquidity or the atomic intermediate token. And that is the token that sits between every transaction.
Right.
So instead of the traditional way of having a pool for Bitcoin to Ethereum and a pool for Bitcoin to SUI and a pool for SUI to Ethereum.
And, you know, each of those.
Right.
Which you find that the pairs you need grow very quickly
um exponentially actually uh instead of that we have a system where we pair bitcoin to the atomic
intermediate token and ethereum to the atomic intermediate token and sui to the atomic intermediate
token and any tokens there that way we can we can, when a transaction is made,
we don't have to worry about low liquidity in certain pools
because the liquidity of the atomic intermediate token is always balanced.
It's constantly rebalanced, which eliminates also impermanent loss,
which is a problem you find in DeFi.
So when I make that trade, it's actually
going from stablecoin A to the atomic intermediate token, the AIT, and then a second swap from the
AIT to stablecoin B, what you want to receive. But all that happens within one transaction atomically and invisibly to the user, right?
With no interaction needed.
So we needed a, if you're going to have that system, then you need an atomic intermediate token.
For EASE or the EASE hub chain, that was the first one we're launching, that token is called EASE.
that token is called EASE.
And when it comes out,
there will be ways for people to get involved.
The value that it has is
we get people to stake that
and other coins to fund
that atomic intermediate token swap system.
That's how we have liquidity within the system.
Even though that liquidity is many, many times more efficient
than the traditional format, we still need that.
So we need people to put that money in to act as a liquidity reserve and with EASE tokens and whatever the other tokens are on the system.
And they earn a percentage, a small percentage of the fee or a small fee.
fee, they earn a fee that's shared amongst the every staking. So that's the incentive for people
They earn a fee that's shared amongst every staking.
to inject funds into the system, not into Ease Protocol Inc, but into the system itself,
inject value in so that these transactions can happen. It can be easy for people, but also so
that, you know, they can have a financial incentive
to do it by, by making money on those transactions that are every, it's, it's happening across the
chain. And rather than split that up into multiple, multiple DeFi pools, there's a,
it's a protocol level pool. Now you could have additional pools if you want. There's, there clearly will be reasons for that. But you know, the other thing this does, by the way,
is it takes away one of the major risks that we've seen, which is exchanges, right? Exchanges
are not trustworthy. You put your crypto on exchanges and you basically put it into, you
know, Sam Bakman Fre freed's excel spreadsheet to do with
what as he chooses right um and everyone else now says oh no we would never do that but you know
trust us right um with with putting this kind of swap function at the core of the l1 it means that
you don't have to go off to exchanges, right?
So, and similarly with bridge technology, a lot of people lose their tokens from bridges.
And so we have lossless bridges between Ease-based blockbreds.
So, fascinating stuff.
And, you know, it sort of gives the whole sort of blockchain ecosystem a chance to participate in EASE protocol, even as governments and enterprises are using EASE for very specific use cases. with sir in terms of how do you do a b2b product that still is attractive enough to a broad
consumer base to sort of support fundamental economics right so interesting stuff i'd say
that i on your point there i'd say that i'd almost flip it around and i'd say you can't make a b2b
or b2g product unless you make it very easy for consumers.
Because I mentioned Chivas Wallet.
That was a big failure.
A lot of money was given away and never touched, right, by people who could have used the money.
Well, government employees are consumers too, right?
Everyone's a consumer.
Everyone needs a good product.
Yeah, yeah.
It needs to be easy.
The name didn't just happen by accident.
This is the core need of the entire blockchain industry at this time is ease.
It's not going to grow unless we make it easier for people to engage with.
Is that – yeah.
Yeah, I agree with you.
We've been talking about this for years on the show, and people have been taking various chunks at this and and certainly it's easier than it used to be but um i'm still facing the same problems
that i faced uh years ago when i try to explain blockchain to a new person and say and they ask
how do i get started i mean where do you start right yeah it's only easy to us it's only easy
to us because we're already used to the paradigm.
And we've had that pain moment or many moments or many months where we didn't understand.
And usually a lot of people lose money in that process, right?
And, you know, then they never come back because they're burnt or they, you know they just deal with it. But I want to eliminate that bad experience.
I don't want to just have a good experience.
I want to eliminate the terrible experience where people lose money one way or the other,
which I think has happened to pretty much everybody who's come into blockchain.
How about we make it so it's a fun experience?
Yeah, sign me up for that.
I have one more quick hitter.
We like to call them on the show
because I want to ask you one more question to wrap up
and give these folks a chance to go back
to everything else they're up to today.
It's a beautiful day here in Lisbon.
Portugal, I'm sure everyone all over the world has other things going on, but really glad they
could spend some time with us on this AMA. Yeah, thank you. You know, you're really excited about
this Atomic Intermediate Tokens, and they have a relationship that you touched on to exponential
liquidity and I can't help but notice your exponential liquidity video now has over a
hundred thousand views. What's your take on why people are excited about exponential liquidity?
Great question and I think the answer is that people are very keenly aware of the shortcomings of the current DeFi swap system.
Right. You get pools that don't have enough liquidity and therefore it basically stops the growth of the token.
It basically stops the growth of the token.
You've got pools that get imbalanced
and where people who are staking there
suffer from impermanent loss,
which is also very badly named
because it's almost always permanent.
And people know that liquidity is the lifeblood of all DeFi and anything we're going to call DeFi.
So if there were, I think people are attracted to the idea that there's another way that is inherently more efficient.
And there's really no reason not to have done it this way from the start.
It's just that we didn't, right?
It's not like the Bancor swap method.
It's different.
But it's more efficient.
It works better. And people are excited about it. And we different, but it's more efficient. It works better and people are excited about it
and we've already built it. And so users on any of the Ease blockchains will be able to use it
right away. I think what you'll see is others will move to this on other platforms, but it's exciting. So and it goes, it also goes beyond just ease right now because it proposes a new way to to set up this liquidity across across DeFi.
And it'll take a while for people to get there. But, you know, since it's more efficient, it will happen.
beautiful thank you for um explaining that to me i i thought you know they just like the the
shirt you're wearing or the tone of your voice but it sounds like there's some substance too
my beautiful face yeah more than just a pretty face um but let's let's wrap with one sort of broader question, Douglas.
And, you know, there's a lot to cover with Ease Protocol.
So I'm looking forward to more in-depth conversations on some of these different topics.
But for now, I just wanted to sort of wrap with one particular question particular question which is like what does mass adoption
look like through the lens of ease like if you sort of were sort of you know globetrotting into
the future here a year or two from now three five years from now with ease protocol what is what does
mass adoption actually mean to you like how and, and try to be as specific as possible,
as tangible as possible in terms of what you're going for here.
Okay, I will.
So I think it will look the opposite of what a lot of people think, right?
Generally people think, oh, we're going to make these tools
and more and more individuals are going to adopt them.
And eventually, you know, so many people will have them that the banks have to use them and all that.
That's the method that's been tried and has not yet worked.
We try the exact opposite and we say, hey, you know, how can how can we get 300 million people use, you know,
using this or improving their lives through this right now.
And it's not by trying to get 300 million to onboard it. It's by getting something like maybe
a credit rating company, right, that is doing credit ratings on all these end users and has to,
you know, and wants to be more efficient and want being more efficient in the credit
rating means that end users are able to actually pay lower
fees because there's, there's, you know, the risk is better categorized.
So, so that's a way, right?
A that it can affect people without them even knowing it at first right um another way
and this is a government-based way is if the land title recording system of a country comes on to
ease and we are building that and we have partners and we have governments that are interested um if that were
when that happens right people's land will be recorded they'll have a better they'll have a
better record of their land if they want to get international investment um they couldn't before
because there wasn't a there wasn't a researchable trustworthy trustworthy land title system that could be checked anywhere but the capital.
And suddenly there would be. So that would bring investment in.
Those people might not have any understanding that that investment is now possible, was made possible by by the government adopting Ease blockchain at first.
They're not even using it, but they are benefiting from it.
Another way that we think people will use it is based on our product called Ease GDP. I talked about Ease Send, which is for merchants and payers and payees.
I talked about Ease ERP, which is basically a way to pull those tools into existing corporate and enterprise ERP systems.
And now I'll just mention Ease GDP, which seeks to raise the GDP of a country by one or two percentage points, which is an economic miracle that everyone will write about.
And yet we know through recent historical events that it can be done when you digitize the large cash-based economies. So I was in Ghana in November and people are carrying around like
fat wads of bills, right? And all that economy, a huge part of that economy is a shadow economy
that's not reflected in the GDP of the nation. And if the nation can use that, can get that recorded, there's a wide variety of benefits.
So we believe that, and we're seeking three to five countries to partner with on this pilot,
we believe that if we basically give people ease send, it will be paid for by the government. There'll be no gas.
There'll be all transactions would be free, you know, up to a limit.
The tools would be there. You know, we would,
we would do a lot of outreach with the government's help.
That would be a payment system where fees could be under 1%.
Settlement could be instant.
People could have a variety of additional
tools where they're uh that help with business and finance and um and the you know and for the
government like those things come on those those come online um taxes can be automatically paid
within that system right that's something there's be enough,
there'd be enough advantages to the end user that despite having to pay taxes on stuff they didn't
use to have to pay taxes on, you're still going to use it. That's a way, that's a, that's a end
user, um, centric thing that's, that's kind of offered by governments. And, you know, in a way that Chivas wallet didn't work,
we're going to take all those learnings
and make it something that is accessible
and is usable and is fun
and does additional things for end users
to then actually grow the GDP
through additional economic activity.
Well, really appreciate the specificity and clarity of your vision with mass adoption
and how it could shake things up globally.
Definitely a big vision and a lot more to dive into as we continue this series.
So thank you. Big thanks, Douglas,
for unpacking the overall sort of overview of EASE protocol and your vision
for where things go from here.
Thanks for spending some time with us
and thank you to our audience
for showing up with curiosity and open minds.
If you want more,
head to EASE.tech's brand new website.
That's E-A-S-E dot tech.
And you can explore the tech, test the tools,
join this growing movement.
And until next time, stay secure, stay curious, and keep it easy.
Thanks, all. See you later.
All right. Fantastic. Thank you. Thanks, all. See you later. All right. Fantastic. Thank you. Thanks, everyone.
