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Ecosystem Spotlight: Maya Protocol
Recorded: July 11, 2025 Duration: 0:57:03Space Recording
Short Summary
Maya Protocol is revolutionizing the crypto landscape with its innovative cross-chain swap capabilities, recently launching its Cacao token and integrating multiple blockchain networks. With over a billion dollars processed in swaps last year and a commitment to user privacy through Zcash integration, Maya is positioned for substantial growth in the DeFi space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. I'm sorry. That was some eco.
Right, let me try again and play our favorite song. Thank you. Okay, so let's get started. Hello, can everyone hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Hi, Maria. Hi, Alux.
Is this how I pronounce your name?
Yeah, no problem.
Alux is fine.
Alux, what's the right way?
It's an ancient Mayan pseudonym.
So anyone who knows how to pronounce it is dead.
You're fine. Okay. I'm glad I anyone who knows how to pronounce it is dead. You're fine.
Okay.
I'm glad I don't know how to then.
So how's everyone doing today?
How are you, Alux?
How are you, Maria?
Doing great.
Well, it's a weekend, so.
Yeah, it's been a busy weekend.
How about you, Alux?
Doing good.
Any plans for the weekend?
Sorry?
Any plans for this weekend?
It's actually my wife's birthday
and I'm going to Tapalpa
which is a town in the mountains
here near Guadalajara, Mexico.
Okay.
It'll be nice and relaxed.
Nice, nice.
Okay, so someone's going to have fun this weekend?
Well, happy birthday to your wife.
Thanks.
Okay, so hi, everyone.
Thank you for joining.
This is another episode of our Ecosystem Spotlight, where we sit down with builders.
And today we're excited to be joined with Alux from Maya Protocol.
It's a project that's actually pushing boundaries of what's possible in cross-chain swaps.
So we'll be talking about Maya, how it works, what sets it apart from other protocols in the space, and what's coming next.
So welcome, Lukas.
Great to have you with us.
Thanks.
We're going to kick things off with, first of all, obviously talking about Maya.
So what is Maya?
What is Maya protocol?
How would you define it in under a minute?
Well, Maya protocol facilitates cross-chain swaps. So if people are familiar with, for instance, Uniswap,
where you can swap any asset for any asset on one chain,
this is very similar,
but allows you to actually jump between chains.
So think, for instance, swapping Bitcoin to ETH
or swapping Radix to Dash or swapping from Zcash to Arbitrum.
So, why are there different chains?
Not really like for likes and allowing you to swap in one click.
Not with wrapped assets, just literally you receive the asset of your choice.
And we're friendly for called
thor chain we've been around for over two years on mainnet and uh yeah we we implemented radix
last year and you can uh use maya to get in and out of uh radix very pretty fast so um
yeah under a minute that's what it is
awesome thank you thank you so much so yes as we all know if you guys were integrated with Radix last year and you've been only on Minot for two years
wow I thought more yeah no we we've been building for like four years and something,
but we launched in April 2023.
So that's roughly how long we've been around on Mainnet.
Wow, and for anyone who doesn't know,
this is the co-founder actually of Maya Protocol.
So can you tell us a bit about your
team so you were saying that you've been around building for around four years uh what can you
tell us about your team who are who are the core members and what's their backgrounds yeah so we're
actually uh three co-founders uh that we are uh partners in in other software and startups since before we started Maya.
One of them is the CTO.
The other one takes care of all the old things we had before we started and some new things.
And me who had the initial idea in the first place,
and I'm like the figurehead in a sense
and just leading the protocol strategically.
We also have four devs building Maya directly
under the core team,
and there's a separate team called 13Heavens
who also have another four dev team that they sponsor.
And yeah, marketing people, stuff like that.
But yeah, Maya is mainly a B2B kind of blockchain.
We dedicate to integrating, working with partners to integrate more chains,
and then working with wallets and UIs to get us and their swaps integrated.
So Astrolescent, for example, has integrated Maya.
They support many of our routes.
And then every time a swap happens through their platform, they get paid an affiliate fee.
So it's a great revenue model for wallets in U.S. as well.
So, yeah, it's just a different type of chain.
The team does not really look like a typical L1.
But we are an L1.
Okay, so that's interesting.
And of course, shout out to
Astraliscent. I can see Timon
is in the space as well.
So shout out to you.
So you were talking
also about that you
came up with a thought about creating Myer
Protocol, right? What inspired you
to do that?
You've mentioned that
you've worked on different projects before
but what inspired Myer Protocol?
What problem did you see
that you thought we can actually solve this?
Yeah, so I always wanted to get involved in crypto somehow
because the scalability of launching and then being used worldwide,
no red tape, is very attractive.
But there's two things that always threw me off.
Number one was building a smart contract i never liked it
like solidity is pretty tough to work with and just i i didn't like like the concept a lot
so uh we never got around to it and the second is it always stood up to me that people were using
always stood up to me that people were using central exchanges, you know, Binance, Coinbase,
Kraken, Bidso. So, you know, I'm from Mexico. We're a developing country. We are very aware
here of how, you know, corrupt governments can be and yeah, how unfair life can get and how much power you get when you control your own stuff.
But it didn't make sense to me that as soon as you needed to move from one chain to another,
you needed to use a central exchange.
That just didn't make sense to me.
So it was just like, okay, we made all of these brilliant technology in crypto,
and then you're just going back and using bank 2.0
to exchange it so then one day i stumbled onto thor chain and fell in love i finally found
something that was actually
purely following the vision of peer-to-peer cash by allowing you to move between chains
without trust, minimize setup.
So then one day, I became an LP
and became involved with the tokens, stuff like that.
And then one day, one of the founders was in a webinar
and he says, I eventually think there will be another three or four of these protocols.
And I just thought, I got to be the second.
So I came up with the name Maya, and they were talking cacao on the spot just because I wanted to push Latin American culture forward with a project so that
even if you're in a developing country, you can
build on crypto. There's no barriers of entry here.
So yeah, got to work and it's been
a very long journey since then. But here we are.
Here you are indeed. That's awesome to hear.
And I did see about the cacao actually, about the name, why you chose that name. It was really intriguing. So you kind of picked it because it comes from chocolate, right? Because it's an ingredient used to make chocolate, right?
So several reasons.
Number one, cacao comes from Mexico, so it's a cultural heritage.
Second, yeah, everybody loves chocolate.
Everybody loves chocolate.
It's very easy to relate to it.
But actually, the deeper reason is cacao was actually used as a currency in ancient pre-Hispanic cultures in Mexico.
So it grew from trees, and nobody controlled its supply, its emissions.
And people harvested, much like nodes mine and validate today.
And it was used as a medium of exchange,
and there was no fiscal policy to it.
There was no central party or central planning around it.
And it just, yeah, was used as a medium of exchange.
And I find that pretty neat.
So it actually has quite a few reasons for the name i like that i thought it was a
spontaneous uh name that you picked just like you said but doesn't seem spontaneous to me
so it's good to know.
Yeah.
Okay, so when talking about Maya
and its success over the years,
how many chains are currently integrated?
If we're talking about volume
that you're processing per month,
how much would that be currently?
Yeah, so we've got Bitcoin and ETH.
Those are kind of the lungs.
ThorChain has those as well
we integrate fortune directly too so any of the assets we support
can actually all support towards thor chain uh with just another swap and this beyond that we Beyond that, we have Avertrum, Kujira, Radix, Dash, Zcash.
So it's eight chains at this moment.
We've got Cardano coming online very soon.
And yeah, we're still on the drawing board of what chains to implement next.
On the volume side, at this current moment, the market is not that high in volumes interestingly enough
despite the all time highs
we are processing
roughly 2-3
million dollars daily
our daily record
has been
44 million and last year
we did a little bit over a billion
so it's
a competitive market yet still so keeping we did a little bit over a billion. Wow.
It's a competitive market yet still.
So keeping an increasing share is a tough job.
But yeah, we're processing swaps.
I guess, as you said, it all depends on the market.
So you can't expect it to be kind of similar every month month you know it all depends on that but one billion wow okay um i think my co-host maria also has some questions for you
yeah hi alex hey We both speak Spanish. That's right. I speak Spanish too.
We can change.
Yeah, indeed.
I do have some questions.
In your opinion, what has been the biggest achievement this year and last year?
So 2024-25.
Well, from 2025, it's an easy choice.
You know, I would like to say launching Zcash,
but there's actually a more important thing we probably contributed to cross-chain,
which is, yeah, ThorChain had an insolvency case,
and, you know, forked from them.
So we're totally a different, separate chain.
But we actually stepped in, and the proposal we wrote
was passed by validators, and our solution made it through.
The token that we had to launch to solve the problem was called TCY,
and it was within three months,
affected users were made whole.
So it was just great to, yeah, be able to give back
to kind of our parent chain and get involved
in keeping cross-chain providers online
and being able to help users.
It was a $200 million insolvency.
And yeah, it was probably one of my proudest moments
to be able to solve that with the community
and push it forward.
You know, it was 100,000 lines of code
me and my team developed in just two months to do this, so it was pretty intense.
Yeah, last year, probably getting integrated onto Thorswap and SwapKit finally after over
a year of trying to get listed on both.
Yeah.
And, all right, what about cacao?
First of all, what role does cacao have in the ecosystem?
I also love the name.
I'm a huge fan.
But what's the utility of it?
Sure. fan, but what's the utility of it? Sure, so yeah,
cacao achieves the same
functions as Rundos,
so every pair
in the liquidity
pools on Maya
is paired with cacao.
So if you have, you know,
you want to add Bitcoin liquidity,
you actually add Bitcoin and cacao. If you want want to add Bitcoin liquidity, you actually add Bitcoin
and cacao.
If you want to have ETH liquidity, you actually add ETH and cacao.
The reason for this is to avoid a liquidity fragmentation problem.
Uh, there's always only one pool per asset, but they're all connected through cacao.
And that way you need significantly less pools than if you let any pair happen.
And it's necessary just because of the nature of Maya being a separate chain.
It's not a DEX on a chain.
It's a DEX on its own chain, in a sense.
So beyond just liquidity, it's also because of it being its own chain,
it's also the gas token.
And finally, you can also bond it as collateral to become a validator node
to get your share of swap fees, but you require Cacao for that as well.
So yeah, the neat thing is we actually launched Cacao fairly.
We gave away 100% of the token through a liquidity launch.
People would add Bitcoin, ETH, Rune, USDT, or USDC to the pool for three weeks.
And it was like a completely open thing, you know, everyone with the same terms.
And then after those three weeks,
we donated 100% of the cacao supply to the pools.
And then if anyone has wanted to buy cacao after then,
they have to buy it from the pool or from someone else.
So a completely fairly launched ecosystem.
What the team got us incentive instead is 10% of the swap fees.
So that's pretty much like a success fee on our side.
If we do well and Maya grows and we perform more swaps, we as a team earn more.
If we're not useful, we don't get any cents and we don't deserve it.
So yeah, Kakao had a pretty nice lunch.
Yeah, that's a really fair lunch,
and it shows you're really convinced of the future success.
So where can you buy Cacao right now?
If you go to mayaprotocol.com slash ecosystem,
you'll see all of the tools and places you can use Maya.
We're talking about over a dozen wallets and UIs.
So, you know, control wallet, ThorSwap, Edge wallet,
Thor wallet, Vultiseek, Rujira, Mocha.
There's several.
So yeah, you can check it out there.
Astrolescent, I'm not sure if you guys support Kakao directly.
But yeah, there's many places to do it.
And of course, many places to hold it with Keystone, Ledger, Kipke.
So many hardware setups too.
And yeah, go and check it out.
And also just test the swap, guys.
Like, it doesn't cost a lot.
If you go and test a Ralex to Thorchinswap, Xrd to Rune,
it's pretty cheap, pretty fast,
and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of what we do.
All right, I'll link the comments. pretty fast and i think you'll get a pretty good idea of what we do all right i'll i'll
link the comments how cheap is it i think that's what people would care about
so and the amount of daily or monthly active users
that you're having right now or at least in the last quarter?
It's difficult to tell users because we don't collect any information on anyone.
There's no KYC.
There's no process at all to identify users.
And then, you know, because our users are not really using one chain but several
um in the sense that uh you know they have a bitcoin address and an eth address and a fortune
address so the question is you don't know if those are related or not so whether they're three users
or one guy with three wallets so it's it a bit tough. So a more accurate measure is active wallets that use us.
And those are in the few thousands every month.
And if you were to filter them by categories,
would you consider your users to be retail or institutional users?
A lot, most retail and then some arbitrage's volume, pretty nothing, pretty much nothing
institutional. Interesting. Okay, so let's go on to talk more about a bit about swaps and volume.
So first of all, I want to ask you,
what's the difference between streaming swaps and normal swaps?
Good question.
So a single swap is what you would come to expect in an AMM,
which is I send my assets in, I get my output asset out.
The problem, of course, is price execution.
If you have an AMM that's not that deep,
you're going to get killed in fees.
So, you know, fees and the price change from the swap
will move too much and you'll get priced out or you know you'll receive
way less than you expected so what streaming swaps is is you actually send let's say radix for you
know xrd to a swap to rune and let's say you know it's a very large swap. It's 100% of current pool depth, let's say.
So usually that would mean catastrophe in a single swap.
But a streaming swap, what it will actually do is it will automatically break it up into smaller swaps and stream them through time over several blocks.
So let's say you can decide to cut it into 100 pieces so instead of
being a hundred thousand dollars uh one swap is 100 smaller swaps of a thousand each um
so that way what what actually happens is that the price you the price you perceive and the fees you pay are much better.
And then every single small swap that happens, we call them sub-swaps,
average charge can come and add the price back to the accurate market price.
So, yeah, price settlement just improves dramatically.
It was an invention by ThorChain, pretty bright way and capital-efficient way
to make ThorChain, pretty bright way and capital efficient way to
make ThorChain Maya more useful. So think of it like sacrificing time for price.
So people still have a choice, but most retail users will get directed to using a streaming swap for much better experience.
And so long as it's not huge amounts of money, it's still just a 20, 30 minute wait.
Yeah, so that's a streaming swap.
Okay, thank you.
Because I had no clue what the difference was.
I was reading about both so i
got a bit confused so i thought the best person to ask is obviously you so thank you so thank you
for that um my next question is with which chain do you see more the most swaps swap volume on
and why do you think that is so it varies varies depending on the market and arbitration and stuff like that.
What I can say is the latest chain we launched, Zcash, just like a month ago, had dramatic success.
It became instantly over a million dollars deep.
It's processing around half a million dollars in swaps per day.
So a very successful chain launch.
And yeah, it's a privacy chain and people are hungry for sovereignty.
So I guess it's just a useful chain.
If you look at the history of what Maya has been integrating always,
it's always been with a focus on utility, of usefulness.
And we like Radix because of all its innovations
in how transactions work, which is radically different.
And we believe that can have pretty great use cases.
And we like integrating chains that do.
So, yeah.
Yes, definitely Radix is radically different.
And when talking about Radix and integration,
what was the most technical problem you found
when integrating Radix, if you found any?
Or was it the smooth integration?
What can you tell me about that?
Well, there was some work along with having to use components,
which are kind of like contracts in a sense.
So we have something on Maya where our validators churn every couple of days.
So the validator set will change and the funds need to move from one address to another, to go from
one TSS vault to another.
So this process on Bitcoin would look like just the new validator set creates a cryptographic
TSS signature to create a vault.
And then the funds move from the last Bitcoin address to this new
Bitcoin address and we keep going.
And this happens every couple of days to keep livelihood high,
livelihood, sorry, high.
Um, the thing with Radix, it had to be done with, uh, you know, component
logic and it was a little bit complex, but, yeah, we had help from the Radix works team at the time
and got through it.
That's awesome.
Well, I'm glad that you guys were able to integrate,
and it actually didn't feel like it took so long.
So we're really happy about that and how you were able to also work with different projects in the ecosystem
like Shard Space and Astraliscent.
So that's great.
Okay, so you have right now ThorChain, Swapkit, Maya, Astraliscent.
How does that all work together?
What is the role of each one in the ecosystem?
So think of Thorchain and Maya like core infrastructure.
We are the highway connecting two different cities.
Highway, okay.
So you can move from one city to the other.
Then if you think about
Slapkit,
that would be
kind of like
an app that can
go and see all of the
highways and tell you
where you can go that is cheaper
or how to move
between two cities that is cheaper or faster.
So like with live information of traffic and stuff like that.
And then you have to pay for the highway, right?
So there's different...
You could need to pay it in cash
with like a handwritten receipt, and that's fine.
You can do that. But if you want to use like a handwritten receipt and that's fine, you can do that
but if you want to use like a
very simple user interface
to pay, well there's where
ThorSwap, ThorWallet, Astral Ascent
Seed, they're like user interfaces
that allow you to do things
you could already do without them
but they make it so easy
and intuitive and in the palm of your hand
that you're happy to use them.
So, yeah, that's a little bit of an analogy.
Okay, so yeah, that's good.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I wanted to know,
are there any major protocol upgrades or features launching soon?
We'll be launching Cardano as a new chain very soon.
And then also we have a few things coming up on the future side of Maya.
Maya, we're launching trade assets, which would make Arving more efficient.
We're launching trade assets, which would make Arbing more efficient.
We're launching gasless transactions that will actually serve for an upcoming app layer
DeFi suite that is already launched on Torchene and will be launched soon on Maya too.
Yeah, several things.
We have a lot in the pipe and I just wish that they had more hours.
Yeah, like we all do.
And I see we're crossing paths with the Cardano community again.
I know we have some very loyal members of the Cardano community in our own.
Right.
And do you have, I guess you do,
do you have a strategy for increasing liquidity and user adoption further down the road?
Yeah, just keep going, have more chains, have better capital efficiency, cheaper settlement, work with our partners, front ends, wallets, UIs, to get them to expand.
to expand.
They're in the end
are the ones that bring the users.
So yeah, there is a plan
and just we need to keep executing.
Great.
So these are kind of your short-term goals,
as I can tell.
How do you usually prioritize
feature development and improvements?
So if you want to integrate a feature
or even integrate a chain,
how do you do that?
How do you prioritize that?
Well, you know,
I'm on Discord and X every day
looking at, you know,
what things are the most useful
for different stakeholders. You know, we have swappers, LPs, you know, what things are the most useful for different stakeholders.
You know, we have swappers, LPs, validators, arbitrage spots, wallets and UIs, aggregators.
So, you know, we're listening to feedback and then, you know, we have to make a judgment
and decide, you know, okay, this is important.
We should do this fast, or this is not that important.
We can take it easy.
And then we have several devs,
so we work in parallel in different things.
And then when it's time for a new version,
we decide what makes it into this next version
and what is just a nice two.
So if code is ready and everything passes
and testing works great,
then it makes it into the version.
If for some reason in the review or testing process
we find something,
then it gets pushed back to another version.
So it's just a constant process.
We have updates around every three to four weeks to the chain.
So it's just constantly being aware of what's going on and responding.
Exactly.
I think the most important thing is to look at the market,
to look at what the needs are,
and then you can evaluate what you want to prioritize and what you want to integrate and how fast you want it to be.
So that makes sense.
So I know that you guys are currently, so Maya is currently just a cross-chain store, right?
But I've heard that you guys are also working on smart contract layer.
Can you tell us something about that?
Yeah, well, we'll actually have two layers.
The app layer on top of Maya,
and that one's a little bit permissioned to deploy.
There's a reason for that,
but it's very similar to the app layer
that ThorChain launched earlier this year with Rujira.
Actually, the app layer on Maya would also be launched with Rujira.
And then we also will eventually have a sidechain as well
where deployment of smart contracts will be permissionless.
So, yeah, we love this as it will increase the things
that independent devs can do on Maya and ThorChain.
So, yeah, open for business there.
That's awesome.
And where do you see Maya being in the next two years?
Well, yeah, more chains chains more wallets
we're already working with
high level like AAA wallets
to get integrated
so being there
and most importantly
Maya should be something you
use daily without even knowing you're using it
you have the size where
many people use Maya and don't even know they're using Maya.
Just like you send an email and you don't know that you're using TCP IP protocol at the core.
So, yeah.
yeah
I was actually talking to Astraliscent
before the space and he
forced me to ask you this question
he said please ask him
how much does he love Astraliscent
a lot
sorry T1
well
it was
they came up and integrated Maya pretty quickly
where we launched Radix.
And then it usually happens that there might be some issue
with the chain integration, you know, some sort of bug.
And this happens, can happen at the beginning of an integration.
And it did with the Radalex integration this time.
And it's a couple of weeks where some transactions were stuck.
And Astrolescent, you know, had several users.
And it was a bit, yeah, it was not great, probably frustrating.
But Astrolescent and Timon had a lot of patience.
And, you know, we pulled through,
it got solved, transactions got paid, and everything has been working ever since.
So just shout out for the thick skin and the patience, and happy to know that users have
been well served and satisfied ever since.
That's good to hear well shot of course as Charleston and short space these things happen you know it's not
it's not always a smooth process so I'm glad that you guys were able to solve it
and recently as I haven't seen anyone report any issues so that's great as well so now we're gonna move on to our to my
favorite to my favorite like segment which is fun rapid fire questions we're gonna ask you two
questions okay uh would you like to start first maria yeah let's go um so this is a would you rather question. Would you rather pay 1,000 in gas fees or accidentally send 1,000 to the wrong wallet?
I can see Alux is a listener right now.
I think he has to...
Oh, I thought it was my connection.
No, I can see he's a listener right now.
So he has to ask again for permission to speak.
Ah, okay.
In the meantime, what would you prefer for...
I was just thinking about that.
I was just thinking.
I don't know.
I mean, it's basically the same because I'm losing $1,000 either way.
I think...
Probably wrong wallet. I choose wrong wallet.
I've done it in the past. Well, it wasn't $1,000.
You have?
Yeah, $600 something.
Wow.
But, you know, for a moment I stopped stopped and i thought what a nice surprise for the other
person exactly like you're actually benefiting someone else i didn't think about that okay
good point yeah hey i'm back sorry in case you didn't question hey i i hear the question. Okay.
I think I would actually go for the paying in gas because the fees usually go to validators who are doing a hard job at keeping things moving in the chain.
So, you know, at least, you know, it's going to people who care and who are putting in the work to make things happen and things work
all right fair enough fair enough okay i agree for one second for one moment moment i just thought
just let's surprise someone why pay a thousand dollars in gas fees but you kind of convinced me. Right. So, yeah. So, Bitcoin right now is kind of rallying.
What's the first thing you'll do when Bitcoin hits,
I don't know, let's say 1 million?
It'd be very interesting if it hits 1 million.
That would mean a capitalization of 20 trillion,
which is roughly what gold has
so I don't expect
let's cut that by half then
let's cut that by half
yeah it would be great like high tide lifts
all boats we're in an industry
that's still highly reliant
on the capitalization
and liquidity that comes from Bitcoin
I will be wowed just like i was a little
bit wowed yesterday that we reached 117 so quickly uh so uh crazy yeah pretty cool
that didn't sound like cash
all right yeah it was crazy to see bitcoin going that high to be honest
okay so we're actually done with our questions let's open the floor to community questions does
anyone have any question for alex please make sure to raise your hand and we'll give you a turn
all right i think we have a request.
I'll approve.
If the next one to collaborate.
All right, CK Cardano granted you the speaker option.
Hello there. Thank you so much for having me up.
I mostly just wanted to come up and say thank you to Alex and the Maya Protocol team.
It is one of the things that I am the most excited for in the cryptocurrency space.
Because I think when we look at the fee environment that we see with the
coin bases and whatnot, I was as a test, did like a $500 transaction. And it's so wild to see.
First, they get you for $500. They get you for $10 off the top, just because that's what you got.
Then they get you on the spread, which oftentimes, if you guys see like what Coinbase will do, the spread like the buy and sell will sometimes be more than $2,000 apart.
All of which is to say, not only do the centralized actors have the whole paper Bitcoin shenanigans where let's say that the U.S. retail demand for Coinbase is 40,000 Bitcoin or 10,000 Bitcoin in a day, and they've got a liquidity pool of 40,000 Bitcoin.
Reality is they can just update dashboards without having those incoming cash actually
going and moving UTXOs at the L1. All of which is to say that as more and more of this value
migrates from centralized exchanges into liquidity pools like Maya Protocol. And I think that the prices, well, I don't think,
prices become more honest.
And then it disintermediates the people
from these KYC custody exchanges.
And to me, the interoperability hypothesis,
like folks that get honest about what Bitcoin is
and understand the technology,
seven transactions per second
just isn't going to cut it.
It's not going to scale.
When you see infighting between core and knots, it's like, okay, so we realize this technology
isn't going to keep up with the pace of innovation and artificial intelligence, all of which
is to say the robust interoperability between L1 blockchains is really going to be the secret
sauce. In my opinion,
it's going to be UTXO-based blockchains that scales Bitcoin, gives it that privacy and
expressiveness that we're really looking for. And to me, one of the most crucial and fundamentally
important pieces of that freedom technology stack is the ability for me to be able to swap my Bitcoin for Litecoin, Cardano, Solana, Ethereum,
XRP, et cetera. And then when you look at like Leo Dex has a lot, a really robust,
a stable coin depth and whatnot. So when you just look at this freedom network that ThorChain and
Maya Protocol and these guys are building together, it really is inspiring. It's exciting.
And people that are sleeping also just on the opportunities for arbitrage between these L1s.
Like right now, guys, Bitcoin is up about 1.5%, right?
If you'll notice a pattern, Litecoin is going to about double or triple that performance.
And then here we have these random days where Cardano is up 15% or 14% today, right? What Maya protocol is going to allow us to do is play that arbitrage. And I
have been waiting for that. People play the swapping game within Ethereum or Solana or what
not, what have you. But I'm really excited for Maya protocol bringing our ability to get that
arbitrage with atomic swaps at the L1. So landing the plane there, thank you so much for allowing me this sort of ramble.
But yeah, I just wanted to say what a fan I am of Maya Protocol's work.
And any updates that you might be able to offer as far as that support for Cardano,
would love to hear it.
My understanding is there has been some recent um upgrades uh on the infrastructure side with
maybe thor chain um pushing code also with go maestro and maybe we'll have support within the
next 60 and uh 30 to 60 days maybe uh do you have any insights on that um alex and again i really do
appreciate the time uh having me up thank you thank. Thank you, mate. Yeah, so
the big stopper
had been that
Fortune Maya
used to support only ECDSA
signatures chains.
So Bitcoin, Ethereum,
everything we have today on
Fortune Maya are ECDSA.
Whereas Cardano
along with Solana and other newer chains, they have EDDSA signing
standard. So we had to work to get support on that. And the thing is, on my enthorching,
we use TSS, threshold signature schemes, which are a cryptographic way of creating addresses and then signing for them without revealing the mnemonic to anyone.
So the trouble is having that applied to EDDSA was a challenge.
But that's finished.
It's getting merged now in 123,
which is a version we're currently working on to release.
And after that, once EDDSA is in,
we expect Cardano to be live on version 124.
Of course, this expects there's no version in between
that we need to release for some fix or something.
But if all goes well, there's no kind of unforeseen thing.
That is roughly the timeline.
As to how long that is, I would guess weeks.
Again, it depends. There's unforeseen things all the time,
but a lot of the code for 123 is ready and just being merged.
Then we will stage test and then release to mainnet.
we will stage test and then release to mainnet.
So after that,
should be focused on Cardano to bring it to market.
That's awesome, man.
Thank you so much.
That's awesome, man.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, for sure, man.
I think...
Whoops, wrong mic.
So I think the next one that wanted to come on stage is...
With the Coke.
I hope I said that name right.
You can unmute yourself.
Hola, que tal chicos.
Hola.
So I do have two short questions.
Hi Alex as well.
My question is, what's your thoughts on the intents,
for example, the near intents and off-chain stalvers?
Are they trying to eat the third-chain Maya protocols lunch?
And what about optimistic quoting as well that happens so that means
they are bending a little bit the rules and
maybe the Maya or Thorgin don't get the
quotes that they deserve and so others maybe
get the trades and the fees
it's a loaded question,
and I think it could be a whole space on its own.
So Intense is a very interesting technology
and something that Toshio Maya should also adopt as an option.
I say option here purposefully
because the problem with intents is
it pretty much is what
atomic swaps used to be
you want to go from chain
A to chain B and then there's
someone else that's willing to go from chain
B to chain A at the
same time as you
so you signal your intent
and they solve it and then they
you know the transaction happens
the problem there is about the quality availability it's very capital efficient
because there was no funds in the protocol until the intent was declared and then the
counter swap was found as well but it's not very available if If you really need to move east to Bitcoin
because Bitcoin is pumping,
well, the very big problem you're going to find
is that there's very few people willing
to take the other side of the trade.
The neat thing about an aromatic market maker,
a pool, is that it's always a willing seller to you
and it's always available and hopefully it's also available with a willing seller to you. And it's always available.
And hopefully it's also available with a large amount of funds.
And this is the case for Thor Chirimiya.
Now, if you're on top of this, put intents
so that it can be more capital efficient
during very relaxed crab walk times, it's great.
But you really want to keep availability,
especially given that you want to be censorship resistant.
The problem with, of course, intents as well is
you're typically solving also against essential exchange.
And if for some reason you get, you know,
your protocol gets blacklisted because of, you know,
some government overreach,
well, those intents are pretty quickly going to become useless
where a pool will always have availability of funds for you.
So intents should be an option on top of an AMM.
Now, there is, you know, Fortune and Maya were launched relatively, you know,
dev-oriented, not VC-oriented.
And, you know, more chains have come online since
to facilitate cross-chain swaps
that have a little bit deeper pockets.
They're coming to join the game uh with with with deep pockets
the the neat thing there for them is they can subsidize uh fees or subsidize spreads uh so
yeah it's tough to compete with that but uh money is not infinite and uh you and we've been focused on my authority on building a sustainable DEX that doesn't need these kinds of things.
Of course, Ruggira will help.
Shorter block times will help.
There's a few ideas I have as well that will help to make us
more capital efficient and more easily compete,
but there's nothing we can do about that.
And about optimistic quotes, I think that's also more just on the side of the front end.
The front end, let's say, TorsoUp or AstroLessent has to track the settlement of transactions
with different providers and take care of their users by saying, okay, you know, this is smack
on what was quoted, this was not, and, you know, put different weights and multipliers
to providers that execute well and those that do not.
So in the end, the user decides and, you know and we cannot stop them from using something they want to use, and we shouldn't stop wallets from integrating other protocols.
We should compete, and user interfaces should also take care and be mindful of these things.
Hope I solved your question.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you very much.
I kind of have the same idea,
what you said.
And as you said,
money is not infinite.
So even if they subsidize,
they will run out of money
at some point.
But yeah,
thank you for your answer.
Thank you, mate.
And I think there's one more
speaker with a question um patreon hey how's it going thank you so much for bringing me up hello everybody all the speakers all people in the audience with the coke alex my buddy
hope you're doing well my friend um i'm an educator with ThorChain Community, and I just want to come up and just talk about Maya Protocol
because this is a very special, special protocol.
In the goal of making infrastructure
that allows people to swap real layer one assets natively,
like real layer one, not like a conventional bridge
where you need like an intermediary application layer like this
is real layer one that happens on ThorChain and Maya protocol it's a huge zero to one it's
absolutely necessary and it's the correct thing to do and solving this problem is enormously
complex and difficult the great thing about Maya protocol is not only are they just have some of
the best engineers ever but they have I think
probably the best ethos maybe even superior to Thorchain itself not only if there's one thing
you should look at is their fair launch but also the fact that they are willing to come and help
other protocols in our time of need and they absolutely help Thorchain get through a very
difficult period as well one thing I want to highlight and I'm sorry I came in the space late,
so if you talk about this,
I hope not to be redundant,
but something very special happened
on my protocol recently.
A huge zero to one, first time ever.
And now people have access,
non-KYC permissionless access to privacy with Zcash.
This is absolutely enormous
and is a very brave thing to do,
but it's not only brave,
it's the absolute right thing to do, because the only way that we thrive as a world, doesn't matter what nationality you come from, is we need to have the ability to thrive.
It's not any means to be, you know, to facilitate criminals or anything like that.
It's actually meant to protect the crimes your own government wants to commit against you. Okay. Absolutely essential. And so I don't know how this works out or if this
is going to be a big fight, but it's here. My protocol has done it and I thank them every day
for doing it. But one thing I just want to say to everyone listening to this and maybe listening to
the recording is that the daggers may come out um and they may come from my
protocol for doing this thing and i just want everyone in here to please come to the defense
of my i know i will if that happens because what they've done is absolutely necessary and i hope
everyone follows alex as a speaker and i cannot emphasize this enough. What he did was, and what they did as a team
was absolutely the right thing to do
and I'm forever grateful.
So please, I'll stop it here.
Just come to my protocol's defense if it is necessary.
This is our fight.
We're all in this together.
Thank you guys.
Thanks everyone.
Thank you Patriot. that was quite inspiring actually
thank you so much
and thank you everyone for joining
thank you for joining Alex
Alux or Alex
as a guest we love this space
we loved having you and thank you for everyone
who was able to ask questions
as well
thank you everyone and thank you Patri questions as well. Thank you, everyone.
And thank you, Patriot, as well.
And happy to be here.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, guys.
Okay, so have a nice weekend.
And we'll see you next time in our next space.
Thank you, everyone.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Ciao.
Thank you, guys. Thank you.
