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Elon Musk Says Trump in Epstein files.
Recorded: June 5, 2025 Duration: 2:02:22Space Recording
Short Summary
Elon Musk's recent tweets about Trump being implicated in the Epstein files have ignited a firestorm of discussion, signaling a potential shift in political alliances and public sentiment that could reverberate through the crypto community. As Musk and Trump engage in a public spat, the implications for market trends and political dynamics are becoming increasingly significant.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. so
whoa so Elon Musk just literally tweeted that Trump is in the Epstein files.
Is this crazy or what?
Like, I knew that things were going to spiral out of control once Musk started going after
going after the very president he paid $300 million to back.
But I didn't know it was going to happen this quickly.
Elon Musk, moments ago, moments ago, after Donald Trump posted on Truth Social,
the easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars,
is to terminate Elon's governmental subsidies and contracts.
I was always surprised
that Biden didn't do it. Then literally minutes after that post was made, Elon Musk made what I
would say is probably one of the most shocking posts. I mean shocking coming from him, that I've ever seen on Twitter.
He tweeted, time to drop the really big bomb.
Real Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.
That is the real reason they have not been made public.
Have a nice day, DJT!
I'm not making this up.
If you weren't paying attention
in the last two hours, you'd be like, there's no way that just happened.
There's no way, right? But it did. Please raise your hand if you want to come up.
I want to get a conversation going on this.
But if you haven't been paying attention since around, I guess, 10 a.m. this morning, but going back to about, I think, 10 a.m. yesterday, Elon Musk began going out and attacking the big, beautiful bill.
beautiful bill. And when he did that, at first, political pundits were like, okay, Trump's not
going to really attack him back. He's remaining silent. He's not going to say much. But believe
it or not, things spiraled out of control. And when I say things spiraled out of control, I mean,
spiraled out of control to the point that I could never have even imagined this quickly.
control to the point that I could never have even imagined this quickly. I knew that eventually
Musk and Trump would have a split. They both, you know, they come from two separate sides of,
I think, an ego spectrum. But at the same time, I didn't think it would happen this fast because
Musk still probably wants to help, right? But I think it's crossed the line where he realizes that help's not going to happen.
You know, he's not going to get what he wants.
And what he wants is a reduced deficit, reduce the international debt.
And that's not happening.
Sphinx, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
to hear your thoughts. So I just, as you were talking, my jaw has is still dropped, was still
dropped about this. I don't know if people realize the gravity of Musk's post about Trump being in
the Epstein files, but that is a point of no return post. So everything up to that point, guys,
is yes, you know, there is, it this out. Let's do this privately. And
they can come to a resolution. But saying that Trump is in the Epstein files, and that that is
the real reason they have not been released to the public, is escalating this to a level that is a point of no return. And I am just, when I saw that,
I was just in shock. I can't believe it. I can't believe he wrote that. Not that,
not that, you know, not that it's in it or he's not in it or whatever. But I can't believe that Musk wrote that because that is an all out declaration of war.
And I don't know what Trump is going to do next. But that is a declaration of war by Musk.
Absolutely. And like you said, like there is no going back on this.
How can you go back on saying that the president of the United States is in Epstein files? I mean, is it true? Like, I don't know. I mean, I think it could be true. Does Musk have have, you know, access to information that we don't? Yeah, he does.
us. But could he have access to this? Who knows? I mean, I think it's a little bit a little bit out
there. But this is like I could I could never have imagined that this would have happened.
Every political pundit I've spoken to said that they will not be attacking each other.
You know, personally, they might be attacking ideas, but they will never go down that line because they both want each other. They both need each other in some respects. But this is like a
thermonuclear bomb going off. This is beyond anything I could have imagined. Yeah, this is
absolutely beyond anything I could have imagined. It is, it's unfathomable.
It's, again, you know what, and I think, what I think set him off was Trump's last posts on Truth Social, which was him saying that he's going to pull all of the subsidies and saying, I can't believe Biden
didn't do it. And, but, but that mentioning the Epstein files and, and, and to the point that
you made about, you know, is it true? Maybe I find it. I obviously I have no idea, but I find it very, very hard to believe that Elon would just make
something like that up and just throw it out there because about the president of the United States
without anything. You know what I mean? That is, you don't do that. That is not something,
you know, I'm not saying he's seen the files or anything,
but he's, he's in my, if I were to bet my, you know, my house on it, I would say he's basing
that on something. So whatever that is, I believe that Elon believes that. So if I'm going with my gut, and I just think that, wow, this escalated to a whole
new level. That is just crazy. And oh, wow, it's just unreal to me. Yeah, you know, like,
there's also the legal issues, right? Like, he can't just say that Trump's in the Epstein files
without having some backing
unless he wants to be sued. And we all know Elon has plenty of money. So Trump could literally sue
him for probably tens of millions of dollars, if not more, if this was not true. Like, that's
what's so crazy about. So, like, Elon must know something or he's incredibly stupid. And I'm going to go
with the first one on that. But I mean, I think we'll find out. I don't think that I think there's
plenty more to drop here. And it's probably going to snowball continuously. I mean, what's next?
Is Trump going to try deporting Elon because he was born in South Africa? I'm joking about that.
By deporting Elon because he was born in South Africa?
I'm joking about that.
I actually think you bring up a good point because if Elon had completely made it up, right?
And let's say Trump's nowhere in the Epstein files.
Trump could absolutely sue him for libel, right?
But let's say Elon isn't completely making it up and Trump Trump's using for libel. Well, Elon can in discovery say, okay, for discovery,
I want to present the Epstein files as part of discovery
in the case to prove that it's not libel,
because for something to be libel or defamation,
it has to be false, okay?
So, I mean, that's my understanding of it.
So, for Elon to say that, I mean, Elon's not an idiot.
And he knows that Trump is a litigious person.
Trump has no problem, as you said, suing people for tens of millions of dollars.
So, I don't think that Elon just, you know,
would do something like that if he didn't have anything.
Yeah, go ahead, politics.
All right, I appreciate you having me on. I just wanted to chime in real quick about the
Epstein stuff, because for me, none of this is really that surprising. I mean,
I've been tweeting about, you know,
the association between Trump and Epstein, I mean, for the past few months. And the way that
the right talks about the Epstein files for the past like five, six years, and then just to see
Trump never really champion that, like he always seemed to dismiss it, right? When there was the
Fox News clip of them asking him if
he's going to release the epstein files uh he gave like a very wishy-washy answer and to me if you're
not involved uh or have no connection with the epstein files that's like an easy red meat thing
to throw to your base like yeah i'm going to release them and then when he ultimately did
release them in his presidency he released information that we already had access to and he made a big show about it. And then Pam Bondi was like, oh, I actually have the real Epstein files. And then nothing came from it.
as a philandrefer. Sorry, I misspoke. But I always viewed him as like a womanizer who will get
whatever he can and doesn't have any morals when it comes to age or any. So this just feeds into
that sort of character or that archetype I have of him. So and then you can see like I, you know,
past two tweets, whatever my replies, I cited, you know, me, you know, associating the Epstein file and Trump together because.
Yeah. So so do you guys think that.
There's more people on Elon's side on the right or there's more people on Trump's side on the right, or there's more people on Trump's side?
Because I think I had an answer until Musk just posted this.
Well, let me just say, before we go to the hands, I do see a couple hands up. I don't know if there
are more hands up, but I think it's a little bit skewed to gauge it on the sentiment on this platform,
because I think this platform is skewed favorably towards Elon, okay? So I'm not really sure,
to be honest, but in terms of this platform, I think it is heavily favored toward Musk and on Musk's side.
So it's a little tricky for me to think about, but I do think, I am seeing overwhelmingly people seem to be on Musk's side here.
I'm not sure how that translates to, you know, the country at large.
So it might be a bit misleading, but I'm curious to see what other people think. to, you know, the country at large.
So it might be a bit misleading, but I'm curious to see what other people think.
And I'm just going to quickly chime in
for like five seconds on this.
I view it as just like a MAGA versus libertarian divide.
And like, if people care about the deficit more,
they'll fall in line like the libertarian Musk
side of the wing.
And if they don't really care about the deficit as much, they'll fall in line with MAGA and Trump.
Yeah, I think that like, Elon brought a lot of people over, but the base of the party was already
there. So MAGA was already MAGA. But I do think that Elon's the one that pushed him over the line and helped him win.
I don't have much doubt about that.
Now, there was a lot of crossover as well, though, because Elon took a lot of the political
views that a lot of MAGA had on some of the social issues, of course, the debt, which
he's consistent on.
But overall, I think this has the potential of really hurting Republicans.
And and Musk also tweeted, of course, that he wanted to start a new party.
He put up a poll and 83 percent in our within hours, I think million I think like six million people voted and 83% of them said they want a new party.
And how many of these people are actually people who are, you know, MAGA people voting?
I would say 80% of them are, maybe a little bit less.
But judging from X in the past, the people that vote in must polls are typically right-leaning MAGA supporters.
So I can only imagine what's going on in the White House right now.
Obviously, by the tweet where Trump threatened Musk, which I would say is borders on extortion to, you know, do away with the subsidies against his companies because he's speaking negatively about him.
I think there's more going to be going on over the course of the next few hours.
And I think you're going to hear from Trump very soon.
It's just crazy that Elon tweeted that Trump is in the Epstein files.
Ed, you were actually doing a live on TikTok while I started this. But have you been
caught up with everything? Yeah, I mean, I think so. So I saw Trump's post. I've seen,
and I've seen Elon's Epstein post. Did he see his response to his post too?
No, I didn't. What was that?
Well, where Elon said, mark this post.
No, no, I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah.
So let me, I'll read it to you.
And let me bring it up here.
So he says, mark this post for the future.
The truth will come out.
So he's basically saying that Trump is in the Epstein files. And he's telling everybody to mark this post because the truth will come out.
So what does Elon know and when is he going to tell us all this?
Tell us what's in it.
Well, Ed, I brought this up before you got in here.
You know, like defamation law, I mean, it's not the strongest in the United States, but this is something that will be cut and dry.
strongest in the United States, but this is something that would be cut and dry. If Trump
isn't in the Epstein files, this is like $100 million that he can win from Elon right now.
So Trump either sues Elon, or I think it says that he's in the files. I mean, what else could
it be? So I don't know. I don't think that would pass because Trump, we know that Trump was on the in the black in the, you know, the phone book.
We know he is on the flight lot.
So Elon could just say that that was what the what the Epstein files are.
If he if it came to court and he really didn't have anything.
So I don't know if that would actually hold up in a civil case.
Speaking of files, you guys should update the space to say files, not fines.
But I appreciate you guys for bringing me up.
Appreciate it.
Oh, I'll do that.
Thanks.
Yeah, Epstein fines.
What were you thinking, Brian?
Epstein was fined by Joe Biden and Elon saw that Trump signed that fine.
Now, I totally messed up.
I was rushing to get that out there.
Like, I couldn't believe what I was reading.
And I was like, OK, I got to start a space.
I haven't we haven't been doing spaces, but this is worth it.
And like I said, like if you're if you are a somebody on the right, somebody that's conservative, and you have been following what's been going on over the course of the last—since Trump got inaugurated, I'd love to hear from you and hear how you're taking this.
Whose side are you on?
Do you think Trump is actually in the Epstein files? Do you think that Musk is right in that he's
continuing to push for a reduced deficit? So feel free to raise your hand and I'll try and
bring some people up. Well, I can start with that really quick, if you don't mind, Brian.
And I appreciate you guys for bringing me up. Always lovely to have both of you guys on the
Doge Null Dog Spaces and Crypto with everything that we've got going on. Appreciate you guys. But I'm libertarian. So I'm, as you would consider,
far right. You know, I'm completely against taxation. And as well, I don't like all of the
spending that's been going on. So that's how I would define myself. But I would have to take the side of Elon here. Absolutely. You look at all the work that Elon has done for undoing a lot of the wasteful spending and say All of that was undone overnight by this bill
that was passed without that 72-hour notice that you're supposed to give
overnight in the dead of night. And I think he's very, very upset about it. And he has
the right to be upset about it. He was promised a lot of things for losing billions of dollars of his
company's value of coming into politics, and those things were not executed upon. So I think he has
a right to be upset. Absolutely. Go ahead, Mark. Hey, guys, I'll be right back. I got to run for a minute, but be back in a little bit.
Right on. Thanks. I want to say a couple of things. First, as an attorney, and I'm a Democrat,
but I'm not going to take a side in this battle because I'm just going to sit back and grab my
popcorn. Boy, I love it. I think because Trump is a politician, any speech said against him, whether in writing
or just spoken, can be said, and he would have a hard time suing anybody for libel or slander.
Now, you know, whose Epstein files, the Epstein files, the FBI's Epstein files, you know,
what files are we talking about? Elon didn't really say, he just said the files. So he may have a good defense there. But my big concern, and I used to work for Elon down at
the factory in Austin, Texas. You know, we've never met, but I really like and respect the guy.
When it comes down to it, he's all brass tacks and no BS. And so my biggest fear here is that in this battle of the rich guys, Elon may be targeted by Trump through his use of
the executive branch to see that he gets prosecuted for various crimes that he could be accused of
by anyone. And, you know, people have been trying to target Elon back and forth over the years for many different things that they've said about him.
Most of them turn out to be untrue.
But Elon is in a very precarious position because of the nature of the Trump administration.
And I'm afraid to see what might happen to Elon.
The stock is really hurting right now.
If you're an investor, it's down, I think, $70 over the past hour or something like that.
And that's not good.
But I expect it to go back up.
$46.
I expect it to go back up.
Yeah, it hurts.
$70 over the last two days.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
It's a very interesting battle, I think.
One of the most interesting
battles we'll get to see over the next 20 or 30 years between two very wealthy, very powerful
people. And I'm excited to see what comes of it. I, you know, I'm sad to see it. I don't like it.
I don't like our president getting involved in a, you know, hit or miss back and forth with anybody
in public because that weakens the nation. But,
you know, Elon is not going to take any gruff from anybody. He's a tough leader with lots of
resources, and I expect he'll do well in the battle. Yeah, I think that unlike some other
people, Musk isn't really afraid here. I think a lot of people are scared of Trump, but Musk isn't going to be the one to
be scared of Trump. He's worth like $400 billion. He's the wealthiest man in the world. He has a
lot of people that are friends with him. A lot of people dislike him. A lot of people hate him,
but he's actually somebody that has a tremendous amount of power and somebody that I think would go toe to toe with Trump easily.
And if Trump tries to do something that might be unkosher, illegal, totally immoral to Musk,
I think that a lot of people would have his back, including a lot of people on the right
who were very likely Trump supporters up until
this point or maybe still are.
And I think people on the left would chime in and take his side, too, as much as a lot
of people on the left really dislike him.
I think it gives the left kind of something to to push back on the right from.
So, well, you got to you got to remember a couple of things.
Musk is the ultimate guy who has fuck you money, okay?
He has fuck you money, number one.
Number two, he has this platform, and it is the ultimate megaphone.
ultimate megaphone. So if Trump tries through his executive powers to try to intimidate him or
try to do whatever, which, you know, the administration has tried to do with other
people, Elon will let people know about it. And this post here, especially the last one about the Epstein
files, is also sending another message, is saying, listen, Donnie, you try anything,
and everyone's going to know everything. And so everything's going to be public.
So there's going to be no intimidation behind closed doors.
So this is very interesting to see this dynamic unfold.
Right.
But I don't think that that's going to stop Trump and other people from going after Elon.
And I think it's going to be in small, unconventional ways that people might not otherwise think of, you know, like how the mainstream media was weaponized against Elon recently to say that he was a Nazi, right, when he did that, that hand gesture that he did, that he believed in all these things that he didn't believe against and caused people to then go and attack his dealerships and burn his cars and other things like that so i think that there's still going to be consequences for
elon to do this they might not be legal right but i definitely think that they're they're going to
go about it in some sort of creative way and i'm interested to see about how they go about it but
i know elon will still be able to weather the storm because like to your point, absolutely,
he does have fuck you money.
Unlike a lot of other individuals
that would be in this place.
Yeah, no, and I totally agree.
So here's a question.
How do you think Republicans are reacting right now
on Capitol Hill and in their offices around the country?
How do you think Congress is reacting right now?
How do you think Mike Johnson is reacting right now? I think they're locking themselves up in
their offices and not taking calls and waiting for others to respond first because they don't
know what the fuck to say and who to side with at this point. Absolutely. I would agree with you,
Duchess. I think that they're torn. I would agree with you, Duchess.
I think that they're torn.
I think that they don't know what direction to go in.
But I think that the goal is to rally around the base, right?
So ultimately, they're concerned about the base, about the Republican Party and what
they've got going on, right?
So whatever figure they think is better for the base is what they're going to have to
decide upon,
whether that's Elon or whether that's Trump. Now, Trump is a lame duck president, right?
He's only got this term and he's going to be out. So then the question is, is do you rally around a lame duck president who does have a good amount of the party behind him and are very fervent in their support for Trump, betting on that that is going
to last outside of this tenure of President Trump, or do you rally around Elon for the future of your
party? And that's what they're really going to have to decide. Well, not to get into the nitty
gritty of politics too much, but a lame duck president is one who doesn't have control of
the House and the Senate. And Trump, while he may be in his one who doesn't have control of the House and the Senate.
And Trump, while he may be in his last term, does have control of the House and the Senate because the Republicans are the majority. So that aside, let me mention this. I think one of the key
things that Republicans, MAGA people, and the Trump side of this battle will say is it's no shock that Trump will be, his name will be in the Epstein files. He was
photographed with him. He knew him. He spoke of knowing him. This isn't news. And that will be
their defense. In my view, that's their best defense. And the narrative matters. And they'll
be on that very quickly. You know, that's one, I mean, as we're speaking, that narrative is
already being built. I would imagine. I would imagine. I mean, as we're speaking, that narrative is already being being built.
So I would imagine.
I would imagine.
And therefore, my question then becomes, what's next from Elon?
Because he will not if he starts a battle like this, he knows he's going to win it.
And so there will be more.
And boy, oh, boy, it's going to be exciting.
Do you think that this is going to ultimately hurt Musk or help him?
Like, is this going to, you know, squash some of the critics on the left?
Or is that too far done?
Obviously, it's going to push some people in the right of way.
Thoughts?
Well, you know, I fall on the left.
But my father, for instance, is a far left Democrat, you know, I fall on the left, but my father, for instance, is far left Democrat,
you know, union guy. He personally hates Elon because he only watches MSNBC and he doesn't
understand, even though I worked for the guy and the benefits were great and he's a good businessman.
People on the left who are that far gone aren't going to be bothered by this. They might enjoy
it from Elon. They might love watching Trump get roiled for a while.
No one has had the guts to do this to Trump,
and it's been a long time coming from my perspective.
But the key thing, I think Trump's first attack here
misses the mark because Elon has been arguing
against these tax credits since their inception.
I think it was more than 10 years ago
when they first came
out uh 15 years ago i can't remember when the yeah there's and there's video of it right like
elon posted the video so and and tesla's uh bottom line is not going to be affected they tend to drop
prices a little bit to compensate for the fact that a tax credit is removed if it is removed
elon is happy they make a little bit less less money, but they keep selling great cars and demand doesn't really go anywhere because most
people buy a car because they like the car and they could care less who the CEO is, especially
with these self-driving cars coming as far as they are. Now, I'm excited to see what happens
with the stock. I think it's probably close to its bottom if it isn't already there. And I don't think this will hurt Elon. I think he wouldn't have begun this battle if he
didn't think his company would survive. And I mean, for me, that's where Trump's position should be.
He should be going after Elon and Elon's money to try to win this battle.
So Trump is, this just shows how, it exposes Trump for how immature and stupid he really is.
Why? Because he could have answered that question. We knew it was coming. We knew the question was
going to come. What do you make of Elon Musk's comments? And you could kind of tell he was
trying not to have to answer it for a while. He probably didn't know what you say. He had plenty
of time to think this through. I'm sure he got plenty of advice from his aides. And he could have just simply said, you know,
Elon and I disagree on this. It's something he feels strongly about and something I feel strongly
about. But the American people elected me for my insight on things like this. And I'm moving
forward with this. Elon's a great person, but we disagree on this one subject.
That's all he had to have said. He could have said that and things would have been great. Instead,
his little ego got damaged. His ego got damaged and he fought back. And he's basically said that
Elon has Trump derangement syndrome and he said he's disappointed in him. You knew exactly as
soon as Trump said that, you knew Elon wasn't going to roll over.
Elon's not like that. You know exactly how Elon is. Elon fights back. And that's exactly what happened.
And as soon as Elon fought back, you knew it was just going to keep spiraling from there.
Trump screwed himself over on this. And it shows how he's not actually playing 7D chess after all.
Yeah.
And you've got to wonder, like somebody just said, what happens next?
What does Elon do when they start saying, oh, well, we know that he was in the Epstein files because he mentioned Trump once talking about their friendship or something like that.
That's going to probably be the narrative that Republicans are going to run with.
Will Elon elaborate and go further and say, no, that's not just it?
I don't know. Like, like this is we're in uncharted territory and it's genuinely a little bit scary what's going to happen. Like, like,
I know that Democrats are kind of celebrating that this is happening, but I mean, we're kind
of in an area where we don't know what's going to happen next and it might not be all good for
Democrats. Well, well, so I think I know you unmuted. I just want to say something real fast.
I think I know you're muted. I just want to say something real fast.
Yeah, go ahead.
It's going to be so interesting to me to see how members of Congress handle this.
But, you know, this is going to spiral. You know, it's going to be a factor in the 2026 midterms.
Do Republicans side with Musk and hope that they get some of the money?
side with Musk and hope that they get some of the money? Or do they side with Trump because they
don't want to be, you know, be target of his truth social posts? It's going to be interesting to see
which politicians go which direction. And I think this is going to be extremely divisive for the
Republican Party. I think it opens things up though, right? It opens up things up for Republicans to turn on Trump. It kind of gives them that doorway. Elon did so they can. Go ahead, Sphinx.
I'm rethinking what I was going to say, but I was going to predict that most Republicans were going to step in line with the president.
But you're right.
That does give them an opening.
I think it matters what their constituents at home, how strongly their constituents at home feel about the president, right? So if that MAGA base
at home is still very strong pro-Trump, then yeah. But if you have a lot of people, for instance,
who are questioning or upset why the Epstein files were never released even prior to today,
upset why the Epstein files were never released even prior to today, then, yeah, you're going to
get people saying, OK, what's going on here? And people who have been not happy up to now
also saying this is seeing this as an opening. Well, let me toss in here on this real quick.
When Elon threw this jab, and I'm just going to call it a jab, it's not a hard punch, it's not an uppercut. This isn't a black eye Trump's going to get from this. It was
a very minor poke, okay? Just the beginning of a, hey man, don't mess with me. He's trying to get
Trump to stand off a little bit. Let's just put it in that perspective from my view.
The real danger here is that Elon, because he was in the cabinet or acting as a cabinet
member, even though he wasn't confirmed by the Senate, he likely knows more details about why
Trump was in the Epstein files. He hasn't said them. He hasn't revealed them, but he knows them
likely, or he has some sense.
Pam Bondi, not prosecuting Trump, not releasing these documents, has a reason for that.
And not speaking to why Trump is in those files. And how many times?
And on what days?
And do those days coincide with any of the things that Epstein was accused of?
And then it gets more hairy.
It gets really hairy.
And that might be why we haven't seen these documents yet.
And so there may be more investigators, more news reporters,
more in-depth legal analysis people who start going at these questions in more detail.
And I don't know, I'm just theorizing here,
but this jab could become an uppercut.
It could become a roundhouse.
It could become a knockout
blow for the president. And we don't know yet. But right now, Elon's playing careful.
In my view, he's, you know, asking Trump to step off. And Trump is probably even also throwing
light jabs because his main threat here is to give Elon something Elon has said that he wants,
Elon has said that he wants those tax credits ending.
those tax credits ending.
Yeah, sorry, sorry.
I was doing something.
Go ahead, Phil.
I'd love to hear from you.
Thank you, Brian and Ed.
I appreciate you giving me a chance to speak.
I see what's going on with Trump, and I see what's going on with Trump and I see what's going on with Musk. But the only thing that's wrapping, like, got my brain going in circles is if Elon really thinks Trump is on the Epstein files and he did do anything with children,
why would he allow his own son to go on a helicopter with him multiple times without him there?
Think about it, you know?
I mean, Trump's never been accused of liking men.
Of liking little boys.
Little girls is the issue.
That's
true.
There's definitely an argument to be made,
and I'm sure people are going to say that.
Why was
Elon working for somebody
if he knew that he was a pedo?
You know, like, that's a fair argument there.
And I think it's hard for Musk to respond to that.
But good point.
Good point for sure.
I'll listen.
But thank you for letting me come up and speak my piece.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm going to bring up some more people.
If I rotate people down, don't worry about it.
We have some more space, so I don't have to do that yet.
But I do want to get some more dialogue going, especially from people on the right.
I just want to see how you take this.
Kevin, you're there.
I know you're on the right.
What are your thoughts about all this?
I mean, it's not great.
You know, this is infighting. I mean, look, I'm all about disagreement, and I mean, it's not great. You know, this is, uh,
this is infighting.
I mean, look, I'm all about disagreement and I disagree with the president
and I disagree with Elon on, on topics,
but this is getting pretty rough.
And look, Elon better,
how do you say this?
He better not just be talking shit
if he's going to say something like this
is what is, but like, obviously I, I,
I hope he's not. I don't, I don't,
I'm, I'm, hold on. How do I say that? I hope he's not right. But on some level, it's like,
is what does he know? How much, how in was he? Because like anybody, everybody knows this just
because you work in the administration doesn't mean, you know, everything about everything in
every sector. So that's fair. I mean, that fair yeah I mean I know congressional staffers you know work in the
same state that don't know each other everyone thinks that like it's like everybody goes to the
cafeteria together like it's like it's lunch but um you know to say something like that with the
Epstein thing that's some pretty wild shit and uh I would hope elon's not just out here just talking shit
because yeah i don't think elon would say that without evidence but the question is kevin and
i think what you're proposing right is can he produce receipts right can he produce proof
of this other than something of his own volition that he's seen with his own eyes right because
it's going to be something greater than that in order for him to prove his point. Anybody can say that they saw something, right? But can you prove it and can you
back it up? And that's the case that we're looking for here. I think Elon's going to look really dumb
if he can't prove it. I agree with that completely. But Kevin, I'm really curious. Are you more inclined with all of this happening to be on the side of the president or Elon?
Well, look, I want to be clear.
I'm not a fan of the bill.
I think it – I think it – there's 80 percent of the stuff in it I like.
But, look, you can't mathematically be in favor of doge cuts and a massive spending
increase.
That doesn't make any sense.
You know, we didn't cut federal jobs so that we could just funnel more money to Raytheon.
So I think that Elon's got a point.
And look, if I was Elon, I'd be pissed.
He put his reputation, he put his companies, he i'd be pissed he put his reputation he put his companies he put
his name he put his life on the line for the concept that is doge for the idea of cutting
government waste and cutting government spending and then just to see members of congress throw
into a bill so that they can each rename a library or get a bridge built that they don't really need
or you know uh just know, all the pork that
goes into this. If I was Elon, I'd be pissed. And I think that congressional Republicans
played on Trump's arrogance and his ego, which, you know, let's be honest, I love the guy, but
if I had his confidence, I could take over a country. They played on that to put whatever
they wanted into the bill, knowing that it would never
get voted down.
And I actually appreciate Massey and Paul and Johnson to hell with Markowski and Collins
because they suck.
But the people that are doing it ideologically, you know, Rand Paul votes against every bill.
He votes against every budget.
Thomas Massey votes against every budget and they do it for the same reason every time.
So I'm not mad at them about that.
And I think that puts me in the minority on the right. But look, we can't keep spending like
this. So I think, you know, as somebody on the left, I disagree wholeheartedly with Doge. And
I disagree with what Elon was trying to do with that. But looking up at this from somebody who doesn't really agree
with Trump or Musk, I have so much more respect for Musk in this than I do for Trump. It's just
hard for me to, like to me, Trump just said things to get elected. And now that he has power, he's not going forward with them. Whereas Elon has
stood by his objective of balancing the budget from the start. So, you know, I don't agree with
how Doge is going about balancing the budget. And I don't agree with how Thomas Massey and some of
the other Republicans who are standing by that ideal are going about it But I respect them because they are sticking to it and they believe in something and they're going for it rather than kind of
Changing based on what's politically expedient for them
Well, you know, I think that's important because Thomas Massey and I'm sorry sorry don't just I think that's
important because they that they do this no matter who's in office. And I think omnibus bills are bullshit.
And I wanted the idea of what Matt Gaetz wanted.
I wanted appropriations bills.
I wanted them debated.
I wanted each appropriation bill voted on.
That way we don't have to see ridiculous commercials.
He voted against giving service members raises.
No, actually I voted against green energy subsidies. But that was all part of the same bill and that's what they do with
these on the bus I'm pissed when Pelosi did it I'm pissed when Johnson did it
it's it's it's it's an easy way out for people that work you know 12 hours a
week and I think that is why people hate Congress because you know they have a
pretty easy job to begin with and they still can't really get it right. I just wanted to say – thank you, Kevin.
I just wanted to say, you know, I know this won't be popular in this space, but I do listen to Steve Bannon sometimes.
And I think he's actually a very intelligent person.
person. And he commented on this stuff yesterday. And he said something that I
And he commented on this stuff yesterday.
think hasn't been mentioned, and I think should be mentioned, which is,
he said that one of the issues he has with Elon's position is that Elon is pushing for the tax cuts for the super, super, super rich. And that mathematically, if you do all of the cuts
that they want to do, you still have to increase taxes for the super. I don't mean the 1%. I mean the 0.1%, okay, like billionaires.
So you have to consider that.
And if you don't consider that, it is, Eric, you got to go on mute.
If you don't consider that, it is not mathematically possible.
not mathematically possible. So for me, the fact that Elon, I just want to consider this and
see what people think about this. The fact that Elon is so adamant about the tax cuts is
a little bit rich. And I- Yeah, but is he adamant about the tax cuts for billionaires yeah he is because he
posted the other day for me when i hear someone like steve bannon say stop cutting people out of
medicaid while you're pushing for tax cuts for the super super super super rich i actually like
that more okay i actually like that more because I'm sorry. I don't mean to
interrupt. Can you tell me what he posted about it? Because I can find it. It's no problem. I can
find it. That's something I was wondering, like, has Elon actually pushed for tax cuts for the
billionaires? I know, you know, yeah, that's one thing, but tax pushing for tax cuts for the
billionaires is another thing. Yeah, I'm going to find it. He posted, I believe,
a couple of days ago saying that he absolutely is for permanent tax cuts or whatever. But the
tax cuts in this bill, OK, are for tax cuts of the super, super, super rich. Oh, Kevin,
I see you were dropped. I'll bring you back. Well, I mean, they are for the super, super, super rich. Oh, Kevin, I see you were dropped. I'll bring you
back up. Well, I mean, they are for the super wealthy, right? The majority of the money goes
to super wealthy, but there are tax cuts for other people like the no tax on tips,
no tax on social security, stuff like that. So I don't, I haven't explicitly seen Elon Musk come
out and say I'm for the tax cuts for the wealthy. I mean, I would assume, like, I wouldn't see him specifically saying that.
I think there's, he leans toward cutting spending, right?
No, no, no, no.
Elon didn't say for the super wealthy.
wealthy. No, he didn't say that in his post, but the bill does. And, and Bannon's point is,
No, he didn't say that in his post.
But the bill does.
Bannon's point was, I'm sorry, I see some people dropped, we'll bring you back up.
Bannon's point was that, look, if you're really trying to cut, if you're really trying to help
with the deficit and all of that, you have to consider this tax cut.
You have to consider it.
And Bannon also mentioned that Trump did.
He did attempt to do this, and he was totally, like, swatted away.
So I'm not trying to defend the president here,
I'm not trying to defend the president here, but I just do want to present this alternative as a foil but the 11 million people that are going to be cut from Medicaid, 1 million of those are undocumented immigrants.
Okay, the rest are Americans.
And as Steve Bannon of all people said, that is not cutting waste.
That is Americans getting off of Medicaid.
And a lot of those people are in red states.
So we'll see how that pans out.
But I'm hesitant to, you know, push for, again, I'm not for this bill.
There's too much spending, and it's mathematically impossible.
So I just wanted to.
So I just wanted to think about it.
Personally, I, you know, I I'm more for increasing revenue rather than cutting spending for things that people rely on.
And I get it. The more conservative view would, and especially the more libertarian view, would side with cutting spending and, you know, not increase revenue so much.
and, you know, not increase revenue so much.
So I think this, I honestly think this is an opportunity for Democrats here
to kind of compromise a little bit with some of the Republicans
who want to cut spending to also increase revenue,
come up with ways to increase revenue,
which means raise taxes on billionaires, maybe raise the corporate tax,
maybe create a financial transaction tax, a minimal financial transaction tax on banks,
you know, cut defense spending, like Elon supports getting rid of the manned aircraft
spending and focus more on drones. I think there's a lot of areas where there could be
compromise. And I think Democrats need to kind of seize on this opportunity to try and balance
the budget, right? But do it where you get to increase revenue, the whole cutting IRS agents.
I get people are against taxes and stuff, but I mean, that's a great way to raise income for the government.
There's $600 billion of tax cheats every year.
You know, $600 billion is cheated on taxes every year if you get rid of IRS.
Yeah, but I pay too much in taxes.
They need to cut IRS.
That's true.
Taxation is tough.
Cut taxes, but hire more agents to get that tax revenue from the super wealthy, right?
I mean, I think there's compromise there.
For sure.
I wanted to say, that's just to your point earlier about listening to Steve Bannon,
I don't think that it's bad to see a viewpoint from an opposing side of the aisle,
whether it's right or left, and then take that nugget of that viewpoint
and then side with that viewpoint, right?
I think too often we really get caught in this battle of right or left that we think
that everything's got to be black and white.
And that's not always the case when it comes to these issues.
And that's how they get you with these bills, right?
Is they put you in a situation where they go, oh, well, we're doing no tax on tips and
no tax on overtime. But at the
same time, we're getting these tax cuts for these billionaires, right? And then you're like, okay,
which one is a bigger issue, right? And they force you to make a decision. But overall, I am
thoroughly against this bill, anything that's going to increase the amount of federal debt
and introduce like additional spending, whether even if it includes tax cuts, I'm against.
There's like that's the issue with these bills is they fit too much into them, like what Elon was saying with the pork thing.
And then you're just forced to vote for it because it's either I agree with this or I agree with this or I disagree with that or disagree with that.
And it's like, OK, let's just pass the damn thing.
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you right there. Caroline.
I don't agree about increasing revenue via taxes. I am definitely more on Elon's side of this.
It's very interesting to see when the person that you voted for is in power and they're doing things that their base may not like because you really
start to get a feel for who voted for the personality and who voted for the policy.
voted for the policy. And I am highly suspect of anyone who is unable to criticize the president
who voted for him. There are definitely people who are like, oh, we want to get rid of the IRS
and all of this. And even if you do that, it's obviously not going to happen overnight, but I think a very basic expectation would be to not increase the
debt ceiling when you have literally created a task force to eliminate waste within the government.
I think that ultimately is going to be the answer is that when you have, COVID was a really great example of this, all of the PPP loans that
went out, there was a tremendous amount of fraud. And it's like just throwing bags of cash to the
tune of billions of dollars out the window. And that is our money. That is not the government's
money. That's our money. So I would say that it's highly disappointing to see two rich, very
powerful men have it out in public like this and for things to get kind of nasty when this could
be a meeting or a phone call. I think it's unbecoming of both of their positions and it's
not good for the country. But I'm hopeful that this partnership that he has had with Elon will be a great mechanism for Trump's base to hold him accountable to the promises that he made.
Do you see this continuing to spiral or do you think they make up somehow?
I don't.
It can continue to spiral. I don't see if Trump knows what, if either of them
really knows what is good for them, there will reach a point where they decide that it is not
productive to continue in that spiral. I think it is in both of their best interest for this to not play out much further in public and for them to
decide that they're gonna work it out I don't it it will not be the way that it was before but I
think that Trump's uh critical mistake was making this personal um which I was hearing someone say
earlier two full days to come up with a response to that question
that they asked him today in the Oval Office.
It really surprises me that he chose to go in this direction.
He could have kept things civil while just disagreeing with Elon.
I mean, I can't see how he couldn't see that,
that this would lead to what happened.
Yeah, he's had no bigger ally than Elon, He couldn't see that, that's a great risk for him.
And he's willing to do it.
And Trump should know better than to think that if Elon wants to get involved, he expects nothing less than a values-based transformation.
He expects nothing less than a values-based transformation.
He's not there to be Trump's pet or, you know, stroke his ego.
That's just not how that's going to work.
And this all seems very short-sighted from Trump's perspective.
Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead.
I just want to say something before we go to the next person. I apologize.
So I have the TV on here and apparently Trump has said that he does not want any of his surrogates, aides, whatever, to respond for him on his behalf. And he is going to respond to
what Musk has said himself on camera. And it should be forthcoming.
So here's another update. Musk just tweeted, if anybody got the notification, he said,
in light of the president's statement about cancellation of my government contract,
SpaceX will begin decommissioning its Dragon spacecraft immediately.
So the Dragon spacecraft, I assume that's something that NASA uses.
uses. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to quickly look it up really fast. Dragon spacecraft is a reusable
Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm going to quickly look it up really fast.
spacecraft designed for both crew and cargo transport to the International Space Station.
Correct, it is, yes. So that's something that they use to get a variety of materials up to
the International Space Station with the reusable rocket fuselages, which in actuality is cheaper than the system that NASA
was using before. So it's interesting that he would try to say, oh, yeah, this is a subsidy.
This is that. Well, I mean, it's much cheaper than what they were doing before, which is the
launching of rockets and then not reusing them at all.
Yeah. And I'm not even sure if SpaceX makes money on that.
It'll be interesting you research that a little bit more.
But yeah, I mean, that's just, it's just escalated slightly more, right?
Like that's the start of even more escalation.
And I'm sure whatever Trump's going to say next is going to be interesting as well.
Probably be something about his black eye.
Yeah.
And I think that I find it interesting that, I mean, we all know that, you know, Trump is very much into setting the stage and, you know, getting everything prepared.
He's letting people know that he's going to be making a statement of some sort, and it's going to be him, and it's going to be on camera.
This is just going, this is nuts.
Yeah, I mean, none of this is good for the country.
I mean, I don't care what side you're on.
Like, I don't think anybody wants to see this.
I'm sure that.
retweeted Ian Myles-Chang's post where Ian says, President versus Elon. Who wins? My money is on
Elon. Trump should be impeached and J.D. should replace him. And Musk replied and said yes.
I agree. I agree. I take J.D. over Trump.
I definitely think Democrats are going to take this opportunity to take a swing at Trump. I definitely think Democrats are going to take this opportunity to take a swing at Trump.
There's no question about it, right? This is a moment where the president is weak on the tariff
front, on the economic front, as well as now he's weak on the social front due to this, right? A
large amount of his independent base, I really truly did feel like came from Elon. And while
he's in this position I really do feel
like they're going to take a swing at him oh yeah I'm licking my lips right now um so I know people
had their hands up I started the hands disappeared for me but I remember that uh Jethro had his hand
up and I think all America uh and E-Man did but so let's go to Jethro. Yeah, I hear what everybody's saying.
I think overall, this is obviously not a good thing for the country,
but I think it's overall would be a net positive in the future.
Why?
Because we do put so much power in the hands of Elon
and also working on putting more power in the executive branch.
And you see all of this playing out in public.
I know a lot of people respect Elon and a lot of people love Trump as well.
I'm an independent, so it's definitely not a positive sight to see all of this playing out.
And I think if you know the history of Trump,
this is obviously what he does. People are expecting him to be mature, and he's not going
to be mature about it. People are expecting Elon to be more mature. He's not going to be more
mature about it. And it's something that we have to think about as a nation, why we choose to put
so much power in those type of people. And those are the people that are have to think about as a nation, why we choose to put so much power in those type
of people. And those are the people that are going to represent us and negotiate on our behalf. So
that's all I wanted to say. No, no, all very good points. All American girls, did you have
something you say? I don't see a hand up, but I thought I saw one. Yes. Yes. Hi. Thank you so much for letting me speak.
I think we have two men that have very big egos, a lot of money. But I wanted to speak to the fact that I agreed with Kevin as far as I'm not happy with that bill whatsoever either. I think as far as saving taxes on my end, I'm not saving a dime. So I'm not happy
with that at all. I'm pretty conservative, but I'm also the type of person that can admit that
I don't mind reaching over to the other side of the aisle. I'm not the person that's going to not speak to a liberal
because I feel like I can't. I've always kind of been in the middle of things sometimes.
I'm not the person that always agrees with everything that Trump does,
because there's things I don't agree with. He can be harsh and he can be immature. And this whole thing right now is not
indicative of being mature. So I just, I wanted to speak to that. I just, I think
this could have been done behind closed doors. And I just, I don't think this is,
I hope that this ends on a good note, but I'm not overly confident.
But we'll see.
But like I said, I agree with Kevin.
This bill is not great.
I'm not overly positive about it.
And I just, I think, sometimes I think that Republicans and Democrats are the same side, you know, same side of the
coin. So I just sometimes I wish we could work together and not have all this, this fighting
back and forth, because I think we could work well together, if we really put our heads to it,
you know, together, because we used to. And that's the sad part. We used to be united.
And now everything is such division. And it's and it's sad We used to be united and now everything is such division and it's sad.
So thank you for letting me speak. I think ranked choice and third party candidates
is the best solution. Sorry, Ed. Elon just quote tweeted another Epstein related post.
Epstein-related post. Somebody named AG posted, the relationship between Trump and Epstein is
well-established. Trump flew on Epstein's plane at least seven times, though it's not clear he
ever went to the island. Here's what Trump said about Epstein in a 2002 New York magazine,
and then there's an article. And then Elon, quote, tweeted that with that emoji, some emoji.
But, yeah, it's just continuing.
So the emoji is like a, hmm, that's interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like maybe a, I know something.
So Trump just had a Truth social post 12 minutes ago.
It seems like he kind of realizes he's screwed up.
He says, I don't mind Elon turning against me, but he should have done so months ago.
This is one of the greatest bills ever presented to Congress.
It's a record cut in expenses, $1.6 trillion, and the biggest tax cut ever given. If this bill doesn't pass,
there will be a 68% tax increase and things far worse than that. I didn't create this mess.
I'm just here to fix it. This puts our country on a path to greatness, make America great again.
But I mean, when Biden was president, the deficit needed to be fixed ASAP. And without that being fixed,
the, you know, the country will come to an end. So see, that's where I see the hypocrisy,
because Elon stuck to it where Trump kind of changed.
Yeah. Let's get to some other hands. If anybody else have hands up, I see name,
and I see Mav have hands up, I see name and I see Mav
have hands up.
I see dot, dot, dot,
whoever that is.
I see politics
as well.
E-Man and politics
also have their hands up.
Also,
Laura Loomer
just posted
BBB actually stands
for Big Beautiful Breakup.
She doesn't know
what to do right now.
Yeah,
she's like lost.
Like, yeah, let's go to E-Man first and then politics and then the other hands.
Yo, how y'all doing today?
This is a crazy day.
I did want to say one thing.
Lizza TikTok is very quiet right now.
And, you know, she's very been pro-Trump.
How about that?
Yeah, it's pretty weird she's not talking about this.
Like the biggest story, like politics is supposed to be a political page, not talking about the biggest story right now.
That's pretty weird.
And another thing, you know, people talking about, oh, if Elon knew all this, you know what I'm saying?
Why did he work with him all along?
You know, if we give Elon like the benefit of the doubt, maybe he just saw the Epstein list and he's like, oh, my God, Trump's on here.
I got to call him out.
And it just happened that all this bill stuff happened.
So, you know, it's all kind of crazy.
It's a crazy situation.
But, you know, maybe Kamala wasn't going to be that bad.
You know, I'm not saying I even like Kamala like that.
But I was like, eh, she's not on the Epstein list.
You know what I'm saying?
Maybe she wouldn't have been that bad.
And then we could have gotten J.D. Vance in, like I'm saying? Maybe she wouldn't have been that bad. And then we could have gotten J.D. Vance in like 2028.
So it wouldn't have been that bad.
Well, the way Elon's going,
J.D. Vance might be coming here pretty soon, right?
Yeah, Bitcoin would have been higher
if Kamala was president.
I'll just say that.
Well, so that's interesting
because crypto did take a plunge.
Bitcoin's down to 100,000 right now.
It was at 104, 105 earlier in the day.
Tesla's stock is down 17% today.
And it looks like stock futures are down as well.
So it's kind of crazy how much influence Musk has.
And just, you know, a few tweets have kind of sent a lot of money out of people's
pockets. But let's go to, I think, politics. Yeah, I just wanted to chime in on the deficit,
just because this has been something for months I've been like, I've been talking about. It's like
Republicans or past Republican administrations do not lower the
deficit. Reagan increased deficit. Last time the budget was balanced was Clinton. Then Bush
inherited that, raised the deficit. Then he left the economy in an economic collapse, which then
Obama had to spend our way out of. And then he handed off and he decreased deficit spending each
year subsequently, handed off a good economy to Trump, who then each year increases deficit spending.
And then into 2020, COVID happened. And then Biden inherits the COVID crisis, which then he has to deficit spend to get us out of.
And then, you know, hands off another good economy to a Republican.
And if you look at COVID related spending, Trump Trump had more COVID-related spending deficits than Biden did.
And if we look at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, I DMed you this, Brian.
So on the high end of Kamala's plan, a 10-year timeline, they were expecting $8.10 trillion in deficit
spending, whereas Trump on the high end, they were expecting 15.15 in deficit spending.
So this was all pretty clear and laid out before the election, that based on the economic plans
that Trump was going to contribute a lot more to the deficit, obviously the Republican argument is
Doe's going to find cuts because there's so much wasteful government spending.
But the wasteful government spending they found was like USAID and CFPB.
And it's just there in order to to lower to cut spending, you have to cut social programs.
And the Republicans don't have the political capital to do that.
So it's like they're in this game where it's like oh now we have the responsibility of uh lowering the deficit which we keep talking about but the only way to do that uh is if we get rid
of these social programs which are uh pretty popular uh and so that's why there's this uh
you know you have uh you know trump advocating to increase the debt ceiling because he realized he doesn't want to cut those programs.
Whereas deficit hawks, you know, just, you know, they're like, how can we eliminate or eliminate as much spending as possible?
They're just looking at the baseline number.
It's just like, it's like, what do you guys expect?
Like Trump has always, like in the 90s, he do you guys expect? Like Trump has always like in the
nineties, he lost a ton of money. He's always been a big spender. He's never been a deficit
hog. He might talk like that when he's out of office, but when he's in office, he never operated
like that. No, exactly. And this is something when Trump was running, I said, I guarantee you
that if Trump wins the election, the budget will not be balanced. It was obvious,
right? Like he's not going to do it because what's, what's bet balancing the budget is not good for
him politically, because if you balance the budget is going to do damage to the economy in the short
run for gains in the future. But there's that there's future gains would come after he's out of office.
And he can't do that.
He needs to have that praise on him.
And he knows that if he was to balance the budget, the cost that it would put on America
would probably kill the stock market.
It would kill, you know, we'd probably go into a recession.
So that's why he's not doing it. He knows it's not good for him. I mean, I think that's why most presidents don't
do it. And also, I just want to point out in terms of like deficit spending, like Tesla operated at
loss for years and years and years. But the whole goal was to ultimately keep growing, like that's
the whole proposition of like, you spend and you invest in your country. So then you grow the GDP, which then can pay off those added interest payments is kind of like the theory.
But Tesla operated like that as a company.
They operated at losses.
So it's also funny to me to see also Musk operate like a deficit hog because a lot of the right wing criticism of Tesla over the years was the fact that they were not profitable and operating at such big losses for a long time.
Yeah, definitely. Let me go to some other hands. Mav, what's up?
First, I'd like to thank Brian, Ed, and Dutchess for allowing me up on stage to speak.
I've just been thinking about this. I've worked in government. I interned with a senator before.
just been thinking about this i've worked in government i interned with a senator before
and you know you got the two largest trolls in the world going back and forth generating
what we have here we have this space open and multiple spaces discussing the same thing
um neither one are stupid elon could have just released open source information about the flight
log and and just said you know trump's on epstein
list just to start up the the falcon rocket counseling canceling that federal state contracts
if you cancel a contract that you were awarded you have to pay for whoever replaces you so i believe
he he was doing it for a half price so whoever comes in to assist nasa and the space programs
he's gonna have to pay the difference so i think he's uh you know he's just throwing it out there
and trolling with that as well just to get the conversation going to get more people agitate it
i truly believe when elon came in he really wanted to cut the spending, just like Trump, I believe, did in the beginning, and then realized how difficult it would be with Congress.
And Trump is behind the gun as far as getting the budget approved and get everything done
before the midterms.
So he had to take the deal that Congress came up with because half the Republicans aren't
behind him.
They all have their own personal interests involved.
And I don't think Elon truly understood the politics behind it.
That's just my own personal opinion.
I think that's where the rip.
No, that's definitely fair.
I mean, I think I mostly agree with you there.
I do want to cut in one second because Elon just made another post on X.
He said the Trump tariffs will cause a recession in the second half of this year.
So it's like now Elon's speaking his mind, just saying what's been bugging him, I think.
You know, like there's certain things that Trump has done that he doesn't agree with, but he believed in the bigger picture.
And he believed that the bigger picture is probably good for him or good for America maybe, but now he's just letting it all out. And I mean,
I think that's good. I think it's good for Republicans too. The tariffs are stupid. It's
not going to be beneficial. And he gets that. And I'm glad he's saying that.
Well, like I say, thank you again for having me up.
I think it'll be interesting in the next few days to see which Republicans back Elon and which Republicans back Trump.
And you'll see the divide.
Yeah, 100 percent.
I think that's going to be very entertaining because they're going to have to decide what's best for them politically and what's best for the country.
And it's going to be interesting to see who picks what side. I just want to say, I believe right now Trump is holding a roundtable discussion
with the Fraternal Order of Police, and it's going to be broadcast live, but it has nothing
to do with this, obviously, and I don't think he's going to be broadcast live, but it has nothing to do with this, obviously,
and I don't think he's going to be taking questions.
I can't see him taking questions. There's no way.
Let's see. Dot, dot, dot. Are you there? Head of Bunstag?
Oh, hi. Sorry, I changed my name actually,
just for you to make it easier and change it to Nina.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, we hear you.
Yeah, perfect.
And I'm gonna be super quick because I'm not from the US,
I'm watching you guys and I'm suffering with you guys
from Germany and this is gonna be so unreal.
Like, I didn't see, you know,
and if you ever want my international opinion on this,
you know, but you need to like, for now,
I think, you know, you guys are busy with yourselves.
And I just wanna say like, honestly,
I wish you all the best because like,
this is not gonna be easy.
And that was my whole point.
Like what I kept on saying, like that, you know,
that would not, Germany is fucked up as well, right. But it would kept on saying, like, you know, that would not happen, Germany's fucked up as well.
Right.
But it would not happen in Germany that, you know, someone by the platform and, you
know, and go like, yeah, you know, vote for the AFC, that would not have happened.
Just, you know, it's not.
And if you look at it now and, you know, like in November, it was like, thank you so
much for, you know, giving you know giving us you brought us
uh um the victory and now it's like you know as um the lady said earlier um it's just about you
know he has more money and you know and now it's going to be like you know he can use it again
against him it's just the whole thing is just uh anyway that's yeah i appreciate it you know
It's just, argh.
Anyway, that's...
Yeah, I appreciate it.
You know, I really honestly think this is good for America,
but I mean, I'm a Democrat, so that's coming from me.
That's not interesting, yeah.
It really comes down to how much power Elon has,
and it's not just about the money either.
I think the money played a huge role in getting Trump elected,
but he owns X, right?
He has the largest platform probably out of anybody in the universe,
maybe other than Trump.
I think they're pretty much on par.
If Elon wants to put something out there,
it's going to be out there in every media outlet,
just like if Trump wants to do so.
So that's an advantage that the incumbent always has, it's going to be out there in every media outlet, just like if Trump wants to do so.
That's an advantage that the incumbent always has, the president always has.
But Elon also has that.
And you don't really ever see somebody else that has that power.
But do you think that's the right thing to do?
I think that's outrageous.
Whoever gets the shit, it's just the opposite of democracy.
Yeah, I agree 100%. It's the opposite
of democracy, but at least Trump has
some pushback on some
of his stupidity
right now, right? Like the terrorists.
Like, you know,
the film.
Anyway, I wish you
just good enough.
And yeah, make up with your
other
opponents. It's nice
to see that there's at least some
talks happening.
Yeah, thank you. Let me see.
William, what's up? How's it going?
Hey, guys.
Haven't done a space with you in a while, so thank you
for hosting one.
How's it going? I didn't recognize your image.
It's going good.
Yeah, no, everything's going awesome.
You know, I moved out of Florida, up in Connecticut, and New York now.
But other than that, everything's going great.
Yeah, no, this, you know, just kind of circle back to, you know, some of what's going on today.
I mean, we all kind of knew that this breakup was going to happen,
but I had no idea it was going to happen so publicly and so drastic.
But that kind of said, I mean, it's really odd to me
that you have the world's most powerful man, Donald Trump,
who owns his own social media platform.
And then you have Elon Musk, obviously the world's richest man
who owns his own social media platform.
And it's like right now, they have this ability that we've never seen in the past to just
kind of fire off their own like unfeathered thoughts without any kind of media filter
or spectrum there.
You know, I mean, obviously, I'm not going too much into it, but it's just, it's very
interesting how this is kind of playing out.
And personally, I am here for it because, you know, I all think we knew this day was going to like come, but I did not expect it to be so like messy.
to circle back to that. And, you know, Trump is, you know, putting out tweets that, you know,
he's surprised Elon's upset about the EV credit being taken out, which I don't think Elon ever
was. I'll have to fact check that. I don't think he ever was. That wasn't it. But, you know,
Elon came into the government and said he wanted to do, you know, doge, you know, he wanted to cut
waste, fraud and abuse, right? He wanted to slim down and make the government, you know, more
efficient. Why would anyone expect him to get
behind a bill, this BBB bill that adds to the deficit? I mean, it just seems almost like
common sense that Elon would be against it unless, you know, so that's kind of one of the rifts,
or, you know, people that are like, why is Elon saying this? It's like, the dude went into the
government to literally, you know, get rid of this, and now you're surprised that he's not on board with the bill that adds to our deficit?
That's the one thing that I kind of struggle with that people I don't think are really understanding.
But here are some other thoughts.
I mean, 100%.
It's like it was obvious what Elon wants.
He wants to balance the budget.
That's his goal with Doge.
Doge. And while I wholeheartedly disagree with how he's going about doing it with Doge,
I respect the fact that he actually is doing it for a reason in his mind, right? I don't agree
with it. I don't think it's the best way to do it. But at least he has an ideology and he's going
through with it. Whereas I feel like Trump's just doing whatever's best for Trump. That's how I view things.
So I don't know.
I don't know where things go from here.
I think it was obvious that Trump made a mistake with his attack on Musk.
But maybe at the same time, he wanted to get a divorce with Musk.
Maybe he wanted to be separate.
But that's kind of scary at the same time maybe elon was holding him back from doing things that elon didn't agree with things that
elon really didn't agree with you know like he really doesn't agree with this but can i just
chime in for one like second i wanted to just this is what i i just find fascinating though is again
trump being the most powerful you know person on the planet and musk being the richest you can just
see how they've influenced and they obviously, you know, influenced global affairs. Ukraine, they would
not have satellite if it wasn't for Starlink that I know, you know, Musk has provided. So
both of these men, just based on one being the world's richest, who again, you know, is also in
charge of, as you've mentioned, all of these very advanced AI and tech companies. And then,
of course, the president of the United States,
immense power without saying.
So it's like you've got these two people
who have immense, amazing power in their own right
and in their own way,
both of whom influence the globe.
So it's going to be really weird and interesting
to see how this plays out.
100%.
Let's see here. Anybody else have anything to say? I'm going to bring a
few more speakers up. I'm really interested to see what the mainstream media says about all of
this. I know Dutch just kind of came off mute earlier and was saying this is what they were
saying on TV, but I'm definitely going to be looking to see how the mainstream media portrays this, because right now we're just
looking at the perspective of how Trump is saying things and how Elon is saying things.
But it's going to be very interesting to see how MSNBC, Fox News, all these other mainstream media
outlets are going to be taking sides here going forward.
Yeah. So far what I see is they're saying their sentiment echoes what we're saying.
They're just like in shock and are wondering how things are going to, you know, pan out and where Congress is going to,
you know, who people are going to side with
and what Trump's response is going to be. It seems like they haven't even made a decision
yet. That's really interesting. Oh, yeah, not at all. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure there's gonna be
some conflicting viewpoints within these networks. And there's gonna be a lot of discussion before
they actually come out and say anything. But I feel like they have to at least by prime time tonight
right oh yeah for sure william laurent how's it going hey ed hey thanks for having me up yeah i
i just woke up here um on japan time and i saw el Elon's post and I was just my jaw dropped to the floor.
So, you know, I'm just wondering, it almost seems like a psyop to me.
This almost seems not real.
But just to go back to, OK, if Trump is in the Epstein files, like there's there's different degrees of, of bad to that. Right. I mean,
like, you know, he could be on a flight log, but it could be much worse. Like I'm, I'm just,
I'm trying to wrap my head around how bad that, that could really be. Or, or if, you know,
do you think Elon, do you guys think Elon is just like saying like, do you really think he's saying that he is in there or he's just like,
just,
you know,
trying to throw,
throw some,
some shit back at Trump.
So the files that they released had him in it,
right?
Like he was in on the flight logs and that was part of the files,
the Epstein files that Pan Bondi did release that had already been released.
so it's, it's hard to say like, okay, is Elon just talking about that
and kind of just putting it out there again?
Or does he know something else that might be more nefarious?
Yeah, and I think a lot is said in the specific phrasing
in the way that he put it, right, where he didn't say anything specific.
Like it was designed to be a warning shot across the bow being like,
hey, Trump, I know that you're in these things. And I know some details. Don't forget, I know this,
right. Without it being too like incriminating, like stating something that a lot of us already
know, but also implicating that it could be deeper than that without really diving too far into it.
without really diving too far into it.
I just don't think that...
I don't think that Elon would
throw out a nothing burger like that.
I really just...
My gut says that he wouldn't.
Now, I don't know.
I have nothing to base that on.
But Andy, I know you were trying to speak earlier.
Yeah.
Can you hear me? Is better yep right so like i think um few years like two three years ago i actually made this tweet what
happened what's going to happen to the republican party um it's already happened right because
this is the old it is a long plan right Because if you look at the real game,
okay, call me a conspiracy theory.
Please forgive me, mega people,
if I'm saying something really offensive.
If you look at the history, right?
Who actually funded Trump on this campaign?
It was Peter Thiel, right?
All of his team, like J.D. Vance,
was the previous employee of Peter Thiel, right? He worked for his firm,
and he funded $10 million when he was running for the Senate. David Sack, the other Indian guy,
what is his name? Sidram. Sorry. All of these guys are actually selected by Peter Thiel.
And even if you look at the entire election campaign, right, even you got Hulk Hogan was there. Hulk Hogan was actually funded $10 million by Peter Thiel when he was actually going against that case, right?
So this entire plan is actually to put a normal, you know, political figure in front of, you know, the mega and Republicans like Trump, right? Trump is like, if you put like, if you, okay, let's,
I'm talking from a technocrat perspective, right?
If you, let's say, if you put J.D. Vance,
as a Republican presidential candidate in the beginning,
nobody's, the normal public is not gonna vote for him.
That's a fact, okay?
Nobody's gonna vote for him, right?
Like majority of the Trump voters,
because I actually, this is based on the facts, right?
The majority of the Trump voters, because I actually, this is based on the facts, right? The majority of the Trump voters voted for the first time when he was running in 2016.
I'm not majority, a lot of them, right? And if they have a candidate like J.D. Wands or something,
nobody's going to vote, right? So Peter Thiel actually planned very well. He selected Trump as the face of the mega, okay?
Make him run.
And even the people who never voted in the United States election actually started coming out and voting.
And the Trump won the election.
And at the end of the day, these guys actually throw him under the bus.
And what's going to happen in the next few days or few weeks or few months, the J.D. Vance will be, you know, they wanted to remove Trump from the power and keep J.D.
Vance as the president. And this is the plan all day. They've been planning this for a very,
very long time. The people don't really do the history. People don't actually look at who
actually funding this movements, who actually the people are sponsoring it. Trump is literally funded by Peter Thay. Every people. Do you know the Trump campaigning people?
The script writers are actually from the WWE. Even they funded the WWE as well. Who is actually
giving the technology to the eyes of the border securities? You got to do the research. This is
bigger than that.
This is a complete takeover of tech bros.
And this is exactly what's going to happen in the next few years, right?
Hey, Andy, do you know who Curtis Yarvin is?
Yeah, Andy, do you know who Curtis Yarvin is?
Yeah, Curtis is also a part of this.
He was a guest of honor at Trump's inauguration.
Explain that one.
Makes no sense.
Think about this, right?
If you read Peter Books, right, he don't believe in democracy.
He don't believe the rights of the people voting.
He was so clear about that.
And this is a main guy who funded Trump and picked J.D. Vance, picked David Sack, all of these guys into his administration.
And Megha, I'm so sorry to
say this, people. You guys are so not, you don't have the patience to go and research about the
people who actually behind the scene. And Peter Thiel is actually an unofficial president of
United States, whether you like it or not. It's a fact. So are you saying that Peter Thiel contributed more than Elon?
A hundred percent. Who contributed to Elon Musk when he was actually working in the paper?
Right. So this is not like some sort of like conspiracy theory. This is actually facts.
Like you can actually go and check who are the people who work in the Trump administration, who are all of these tech bros who work in the Trump administration,
and where are they being, and who funded the Trump during the campaign as well.
So you've got to think the bigger picture here. And people don't really look into this stuff.
This is the normal people, right? The real fools are actually the normal people
who going and voting for these people.
They are the real target.
They think these politicians and these leaders
are actually working for them.
Absolutely no.
They're not working for them.
They're working for these billionaires
and trillionaires who are actually investing in.
This is a business.
The moment you, anybody realize this,
we know this is all a shit show. Let it be Democrats, Republicans, everything is a business. The moment you, anybody realize this, we know this is all a shit show.
Let it be Democrats, Republicans, everything is a shit show. I'm so sorry to use that word.
No, that's fine. Yeah. And I just wanted to say, yeah, if people don't know Peter Thiel,
I would suggest looking him up. And also Planetair, his company just got a major contract,
I think, in the last couple of weeks.
Yeah, even the border security and the military and the planetary race
actually owned by Peter Thay company.
I was actually, yeah.
Sorry, James.
No, go ahead, go ahead.
No, the thing is actually, when I was actually noticed this pattern,
when I see the people, whenan actually taking a grift um against you know trying to start supporting trump
i said there's something freaking fishy going on and i made it it's like three years ago and i got
bashed by mega people saying like you know who are you to question ilan musk like you know you
know what's best for the country da da-da-da-da-da.
Come on, guys.
It's just, it's a business.
Yeah, I mean, I agree.
It's definitely a business.
And I think a lot of people forget that.
People, there's a lot of money in politics.
Okay, Ed, are you going to really, after all this drama,
are you really going to, what's your stance?
Like, are you going to back Elon on this?
Like, and thinking like he's actually he should come back to the democratic side of the politics.
So my view on it is that it's a huge opportunity for Democrats to engage with Ilan.
And by engage, I mean just to have discussions with him.
Why, though? That is a problem.
I'm going to tell you why, Andy.
Hold on. I'm going to tell you why, Andy. Hold
on. I'm going to tell you why. First, I'm going to give you my opinion. And then I'm going to tell
you why, why the why to the answer to your question. My opinion is no, I don't care. Because
I'm not a fan boy of his. I'm not. i'm sorry to the space i apologize to the space you guys can
all hate me unfollow me whatever but but the reason is money okay that's the only reason
money and people want to get re-elected and and democrats are no different than republicans and
if they see an opportunity to capitalize on on this rift they will. So I agree, money, but also the ability to use social, use his platform to their benefit.
What do you mean by that? Because you got to think about it. This is like a,
it's a dirty game happening in the politics for a very long time, this dirty grifting.
And people, regardless of whatever party they grift, they will go and support the same people again and again.
Like, I don't really understand the grip.
I don't really understand the mindset.
Well, so to answer your question about the social platform to their benefit, look at what Elon did like over the election.
Right. Say what you want about what's happened in the algorithm,
but there's no doubt that he pushed conservative voices
a little bit more than Democratic voices.
Also, the other thing was is he followed and supported
and retweeted and quote tweeted a bunch of conservative pundits
and their posts, right, and pushed
those to the forefront.
And with Elon being the leader of the platform, right, he has the ability to essentially attach
his megaphone power to anyone that he so chooses.
So Democrats—
And remember, it's a privately owned company.
It's not a corporation that has to be answered.
Correct.
Exactly.
He's not beholden to shareholders whatsoever either, right, because it's privately owned because he took it private so he can do whatever the hell he wants.
So you take that into consideration. Right.
Now, Democrats are going to want to barter with Elon and be like, hey, we've got this going on.
We're going to do this. And then maybe they catch a couple of retweets.
They catch a couple of quote tweets. They catch the social media clout. Democrats lost a lot when Elon came in and took over the platform
and made it into a more neutral, slightly right-leaning platform. Twitter, in and of itself,
used to be a left-leaning hub platform. So, like, they have the ability to capture a lot of that
social pressure back by signing with Elon here and getting on Elon's good side. So that's what they would be able to do. On top of that,
too, I think associating themselves with Elon would help get back part of their left-leaning
moderate base that went over to the right in this last election and help them capture that.
But Elon, I think, is going to start his own political party like he had put out,
and he's going to go in his own direction.
I don't think he's going to go back to the Democrats.
I really don't think so.
Well, also, you know, I tend to agree.
I think he will start his own political party.
At the same time, I feel as though you can't expect an AOC to be like,
hey, Elon, let's talk.
Let's, like, not somebody like her, right?
But some of the more moderate progressives like Ro Khanna.
I could definitely see a Ro Khanna being somebody who wants to communicate with him.
Maybe like a crow.
Like a Jim Jeffries kind of thing, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And I don't think it would be good for the party for AOC to start engaging with him.
But I do think it would be good if some of the individuals who are closer to him on some of these financial issues, like a Ro Khanna, and by financial, I don't mean
doge, right? But the whole deficit, you know, getting the deficit under control.
I think that could go a way in, a long way in helping those Democrats gain some support.
If Elon said, you know,
Ro Khanna's idea on how to balance a budget is a good one.
Or, you know.
By the way, there's a breaking news.
Like Steve Bannon called for Elon Musk to be deported.
Have you seen that?
No, I haven't.
Oh, my God.
I was expecting that.
I was expecting that.
I knew this was going to happen.
You know what's going to happen right now?
If you know, in the next coming days,
if you know, there was this talk between Ilan and his brother on a public stage saying that Ilan's brother admitting that
when they were actually, before they started the PayPal,
their visa got expired and they were actually staying illegally in the country
and lied to
the investors and things like that. This is all actually going to come back and it's going to be
a shit show for the next few days. I do want to comment on what you said, Ed. I do agree that
where it does make sense, like with the Ro Khanna, absolutely. I think, you know, absolutely. It's sure, you know, it's a no-brainer
to reach out to try to make a connection with Elon. But yeah, someone like a Chuck Schumer or AOC
or like Elizabeth Warren, no, that's not going to happen. I disagree somewhat. I'll tell you why.
So has Elon been successful with the doge cuts? No.
He's not a really light figure right now.
What has he delivered for Trump, really, except for the election, really?
So what would Democrats gain extra from associating with Elon?
Just the fundraising, just so you can get the support?
Yes, a lot of money in their community.
Yeah, a lot of money.
But I'm saying to go and associate with them publicly is not a good move at all.
So I think...
That's actually a very good point.
You bring up a very good point.
Yeah, and I think something Ind actually a very good point. You bring up a very good point. Yeah. And I think it was something Indy was speaking about. I think this has somewhat to do
with a broken promise that Trump made to Elon, which he's not keeping. I think this has to do
more within the reason why Trump would not want to keep it now is because Elon doesn't have the juice anymore.
That, you know, he saw, you know, once I saw that election in Wisconsin happening and this day was, I've been waiting for this day.
I didn't know it was going to be this public, but I've been waiting for this day.
So I think this has to do with something that we don't know about.
So, you know, it might have to do with palantir getting the contract instead
of elon getting a contract to turn x into wechat which is what um i don't know if people know what
wechat is and all of that but which is yeah there's a lot of things it could be about so yeah
it's a classic politics man this is a classic politics it's nothing uh you know broken promise
or anything this like i said this is my theory. They
have been planning this for a very long time. They just want a phase to run the election, win the
election, get into the presidential power, and throw Trump under the bus. That's why they have
the administration. There are two types of administration in the US. If you look at right now,
you've got the Trump-picked one, and you've got the Peter-picked one, J.D. Vance, David Sack.
There are certain groups.
So this is planned, man.
This is like, this is not even a conspiracy.
People can actually literally go and look it up and see who J.D. Vance used to work for or who are these people, David Sack and everything.
So you will pretty much get what I'm trying to say.
It's nothing to do with like, you know know conspiracies or anything and it is true if you want to understand how these type of
people you actually think just look up the uh techno optimist manifesto it tells you everything
what like what they think about and these guys don't even believe in democracy it's crazy if
you read his books and if you read listen to him very carefully he doesn't believe in democracy is crazy. If you read his books and if you listen to him very carefully,
he doesn't believe in the rights of people and democracy. He believes in a complete technocrat
kind of a world, right? The technology will decide everything for you. And these are the people who
actually funded Trump. And hey, it's up to you people to go and do your research.
I just invited Loomer, by the way.
I don't think she'll come.
That would be great.
William, what's up?
And then I'm going to be Ellis.
I love how Andy says that Palantir is the president of the United States.
Maybe not yet, but maybe soon, unfortunately.
It's very, very shocking to see what's happening there.
But I want to comment
on this. And also, Andy, I agree with a lot of what you're saying and that maybe this has been,
some of this has been pre-planned and that it's, as you would say, like normal politics. But
it's pretty damn asymmetrical. I mean, I'm going through Elon's post. I mean, this is like OCD.
This is really just like, you know, if someone does me dirty in a business deal, okay. Like,
you know, I mean, this is just, he's like just trying to dig up and use anything that he can
against Trump. And then obviously the Epstein thing, like that's the one, that's the cheap
shot right there. Like that's the cheap shot right there.
That's the gut punch.
If you're going to do anything, I'm just really shocked that a guy that's supposed to be or is the richest guy in the world would resort to, and I'm not being political about this anyway. I'm just, I'm really shocked that Elon just won't put his mobile phone down
and just take a chill for a little bit.
Yeah, but this was so predictable.
I knew that once the gloves came off, it would spiral.
We've seen how Elon is.
He's done this with other people.
We've seen how Elon is. He's done this with other people. We've seen how Trump is.
Once you come out against him, he turns on you like on a dime.
So it only took that spark.
And that spark was Elon disagreeing with the bill.
And it just spiraled from there.
You know, like, I really thought this would happen sooner than it did.
I'm surprised the marriage lasted this long.
But the damage is, really, really huge.
So especially when you come to the Epstein file, like other stuff, they can actually sit back and talk, you know, fix it and make it public.
Like, hey, everything is fixed.
But this Epstein file thing is actually not.
Here's the thing about the Epstein file thing is that Elon could say everything that he wants.
Here's the thing about the MC file thing is that Elon could say everything that he wants, but Congress is not going to touch that thing, nor the FBI is going to touch that thing with a 10-foot pole.
Why? Half of the politicians that are in office now are implicated in this thing.
They're either implicated or they have buddies who are.
Yeah, exactly. And that's just as bad, right if like your best friend or your friend or
associate or your brother or whoever is like implicated in that then you're guilty by association
and then you're going down with the ship too yeah like why haven't you said any if you know knew
about this why haven't you said anything yet over all these years right exactly right because then
it's like a morality thing of like you knew knew, but you did nothing, right? So they're not going to touch that. I mean, Elon can say everything that he wants, but unless he's got some sort of like downloaded document or like some screenshots or some photos he took, like, nothing's really going to come out of this of him saying it's going to be he said versus she said here.
him saying it's going to be he said versus she said here. I think, and I see we have two hands
up. We'll go to the hands. I think it's going to be pretty, for me, it'll be telling, you know,
which of those two scenarios it is by the president's response. Because if the president's response, because if, if the president knows that Elon actually has something,
right, he, he's, he's not going to come, come in full blazing. Okay. He's going to probably temper
his response and he's going to back down in my opinion, because he knows that Elon has something.
He's not just, you know, whatever. It's not just the flight manifest or whatever.
Or he was in the black book or whatever.
If the president knows that, you know, okay, well, bro, my name was in the black book.
Everybody already knows that, whatever, whatever.
You're going to see the president come in guns blazing.
You're going to see the president come in guns blazing because if the president knows there's nothing else there, he's going to be pissed as hell and he's not going to hold back.
So for me, it's going to be very telling how the president responds to this.
Yeah. And maybe we see Pam Bondi release the Epstein files and then we'll see if Elon tries tries to claim that something's missing or you know you
know it's going to be very interesting to follow but the credibility is actually gone though right
because absolutely i agree because yeah absolutely like why because why you haven't released the end
file to the public right because don't do you think like the public is actually not smart enough
to understand analyze and read
what's going on? Why they give the files to very selected, you know, the influences, right?
So there are so many questions, the credibility is gone, long gone. So there's no going back on
this. Now, even if they're like, oh, my name is not there, like, do you reckon people's gonna
believe, right? Come on, you didn't even release the file in
the beginning to the public like you know they only released whatever the you wanted to see
and to the influencers was like that credibility is gone right so it's it's going to be it's not
going to be easy let's go to the hands i only see shane's hand up right now, so go ahead. Thanks.
You know, first off, Washington's the new Hollywood.
You can't convince me otherwise because this is a fucking shit show, to steal Andy's phrase from earlier.
A friend of mine, before I blackbill this whole space, a friend of mine said something the other day that was a bit of a white pill, and it got me thinking.
this whole space. A friend of mine said something the other day that was a bit of a white pill and
it got me thinking. Basically what they said, and I'm going to paraphrase, is we don't change our
lives by voting for the president once every four years. We, as a nation, have been somehow fooled
into this idea that voting once every four years for a president is going to fix our lives. It doesn't.
I'm 45 and I haven't seen it help in a single election.
But getting involved locally, you can make a difference. And I'm convinced if we don't get involved locally now, fast, it may be too late.
It may be too late.
We're living during the first time in Earth's history when you could use automation and robotics to completely control a population.
Up until now, civil unrest was something that politicians were afraid of.
In the next four years, six years, all of that can be controlled by drones.
All of that can be controlled by automation, robotics,
somebody sitting in a third world that hates America, you know,
and that's the reality of it.
And Andy told us how it's going to happen,
whether he realized it or not,
the technology's ready to where 1% or 0.001% of the population could easily control the whole thing.
And if we don't get the right politicians in place at a local level, it doesn't matter who's in the
White House because the guy in the White House, his media is controlled the same way ours is
controlled and it's likely more controlled. excellent point hey i gotta head out but i
want to give a special shout out to ed brian and dutchess for hosting this awesome space with
everything you guys got going on here really appreciate it you guys and having me up on stage
um also buying bitcoin to fee yourself free yourself from the uh fiat
oriented rug system appreciate you all love you all everybody have a great rest of your day
all right even i'm heading off thank you brian and uh ed Brian, and hosting the spaces as well.
Thank you, sis.
I'll talk to you guys later.
That is...
It's not an airport.
You don't have to announce it.
You can leave anytime.
I love you, Andy.
I love you, too.
I've been to spaces for like six, seven months.
I know.
I love Andy.
He's very special.
That's why I get to pick on him.
Go ahead, Ellis.
All right. because he's very special. That's why I get to pick on him. Go ahead, Ellis.
Ellis, can you un-mic? Yeah, I'm sorry, man.
I'm in the middle of an inspection right now,
so I have to probably jump back on here and talk to y'all,
man.
It took a minute to get on here, to get the hand called.
So, sorry about that.
Give me a quick second.
Nina, go ahead.
But I do have a lot of pushback on what you guys were saying,
if you guys are welcome to it,
but it's going to take me about 30 minutes to finish this inspection.
Okay, we'll see if we're still here.
We'll come back to you. Go ahead, Nina. Nina, are you there?
Hi, can you hear me?
Yeah, we can now.
I have to do it like this now then. Sorry, I was connecting my headset.
Just to say one thing, the war in Ukraine, Russia, just to point that out, the ridiculousness,
and don't, or stone me later, like, you know, for pro-trans, pro-mask, whatever,, don't, don't, you know, or, or stole me later, like, you know, for pro Trump, pro Musk, whatever, I don't care. But the fact that, you know, um, um, I'm totally confused. You know, Musk is going there and Trump is going there on a call, you know, with regards to our old future, you know, where Putin sits there and tells me, you know, you did that and that, you know, you may have your own opinions, but I mean the whole thing is so fucking, it's ridiculous.
And I mean, with all due respect, like any of you would be much more capable as the president, sorry, you know, someone said a comment earlier that triggered me for this thought,
like I mean this is like, you know, we're talking about nukes, we're talking about
like about millions of people's lives, like you know, I do care a lot for Ukraine, so
you know, and I hate that Trump, you know, ruined the kind of victory that Ukraine had a few days ago
a bit, you know, with him like, you know, backing down to Moscow again.
And, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I just want to say one thing really, sorry, one thing really quick.
You know, a couple weeks ago, Trump, there was the news broke
that Trump was accepting a plane from Qatar.
And Laura Loomer, who's been a a lot of pro-Trump people.
Now, I mean, she loves Trump.
She is very pro-Trump.
But a lot of people attacked her and said that, you know, how dare you, how dare you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And she said, I will take a bullet for Trump.
But I'm just saying, blah, blah. And she said, I will take a bullet for Trump, but I'm just saying not from Qatar. They fund terrorism,. And now, today, we have people siding with
someone who is essentially saying, this guy is in the Epstein files in a very incriminating way.
so to me it's like i i i think there's been a real shift here um and maybe it did take a figure
like elon to do that but again this was only less than two weeks ago or two weeks ago that even such a loyalist just simply criticized not even Trump,
but just accepting the plane and was fiercely attacked on this platform.
Well, it's like a cult, right?
I'm not saying Trump voters are in a cult, right?
But I do think a lot of them treat Trump like a cult leader,
and they're afraid, and they'll stick with him no matter what. Like, he could do anything,
they'll still stick with him or justify why what he did is okay. I do want to, before I get to you,
word up, I want to mention something else. I think this is going to have so much more effects on the political scene than most of us can realize.
You'll remember back when Elon was a Democrat.
He voted for Obama and he voted for Biden.
And then it didn't take much for him to turn on Biden. I
think all it took was for Biden not to give Tesla the attention that Musk believed they deserved.
And I actually agree with Musk on this. I think Biden allowed his love for unions to get in the way from giving Tesla, which is not unionized, the attention that they deserved. He gave the attention to Ford. He gave the attention to GM when it came to EVs. And I think that is what flipped Musk on Biden. And that's what made him switch to Republicans.
Now, Trump has done so much worse to Musk than Biden ever did.
So it's going to be interesting.
You see, like, I can't see this letting up.
I think Musk is going to be against Trump on a lot of things.
And I think it's really going to hurt the Republicans.
Yeah.
I just wanted to say salute Brian, salute Ed, salute everybody.
Yeah.
Elon Musk and Donald Trump,
I don't think they're going to get back together because what Elon just said and Donald
Trump just said the Africans, there
was no white people getting
harmed in South Africa.
So, yeah, just, well, people want to support who they
want to support no matter what. Wait, wait, what?
What did he say? I said
they
Trump was saying he wasn't going to give money to
South Africa because
white farmers and stuff
kept like getting hurt and
getting like storted and dying
and stuff. And then
I just seen a tweet.
I can't really understand.
I don't know if it was real,
but I seen a tweet saying that he said,
no white farmers have been hurt in South Africa.
So I guess that was Elon's little scheme or something.
I don't know.
A lot of things are being exposed right now.
Yeah, I mean, Elon has sided with Trump
on a lot, but I think
now the gloves are off and he's willing
to say how he really feels about
the issues, whether he agrees or he doesn't,
but I think he's going to be outspoken about
what he doesn't agree with. I do have to
close this space in a few
minutes, so I want to get to
Quentin Pope
and Urbanist before I close things out. Quentin,
how's it going? Hi, thanks for having me on. It's going well. Hopefully we'll continue to go
survivably in the future. Yeah, so I just wanted to jump in to make a point that I think is pretty
important to correct what I think is a
major, major mistake that one of the previous speakers said about local control and AI.
So I'm an AI researcher, and the future of AI and its impact on government and society
is one of my areas of interest.
is one of my areas of interest.
And I'm sorry to say,
but the available indications in my mind at least
are that AI will like increase the returns to scale a lot,
which is to say it will like concentrate control
towards larger organizations rather than smaller ones.
And there are like a bunch of reasons for this,
but one very simple reason is that it reduces the overhead from political infighting amongst
one's subordinates. So with humans, your followers have their own agendas. They want to supplant you.
They're fighting. You can't exactly tell who to trust. So you have to spend a bunch of resources, thoughts, and effort on suppressing
that and maintaining control of your organization. And that sort of limits how easily you can grow
an organization and how scalably you can exert your power through it. Whereas with AIs, they're
all like copies of each other. They've been trained their entire quote unquote lifetimes
to be exclusively loyal to you,
to follow your commands immediately,
to not fight amongst themselves.
So this just like cuts down the amount of infighting massively.
And then there's of course the prior
from all our previous experience
that like improved information technology,
improved communication,
improved information aggregation and application technology is just like increase the power
of centralized governments and large corporations more and more, which is like why we have
a super effective and which is why like global mass surveillance is even pop is even a thing that's possible
now like we did it as soon as it became possible um yeah so the point here is that it actually
sorry to say that it actually really does matter like which politicians are in charge of like the
largest organizations around who's in the White House, that sort of thing.
Because like once the president has exclusive turnkey authoritarian level control over the AI army that like ignores every other order, once you reach that situation, your local representatives cannot do anything uh to protect you from that so it scares me that
trump might be president when ai really takes off because i think ai has a potential to do really
great things or really bad things and the president's gonna have the most power over that AI. So I'm a little fearful.
You know, like if we reach AGI or even superintelligence during Trump's presidency, I think there's a lot of scary scenarios that could unfold.
I really do have to close this space out.
Urbanist, final thoughts.
Hey, Ed. Hey, Brian. Hey, Sphinx. Yeah,
real quickly, just on the practical side of things, you were talking about, you know, the cult-like
scenario. There are Trump-only people that are going to go with him no matter what. There's a
huge swath of people who kind of swallowed the medicine and voted for Trump that don't really
like Trump but did it for personal reasons, you know, self-interest and whatnot. Trump that don't really like Trump, but did it for personal reasons,
you know, self-interest and whatnot. And that's true also on the political side.
There are a lot of legislators, and I think Sphinx touched on that, people who the tide is
changing, people who have been looking for an excuse or reason or an out who have felt trapped
under Trump. They don't want to be primary,
but they don't like the guy. I mean, that's well known in Washington. There are a lot of
these legislators that can't stand the guy, but they have to go along. And I think maybe this is
the big, beautiful bill was kind of the first part of it. You saw people sort of falling away
and saying, whoa, wait a minute. That was kind of a little bit of an out.
And then this with Elon, I think is going to give people a huge out.
The people who really don't like Trump, the people that feel trapped and beholden to him because of reelections and political reasons.
And I'm just anxious to see how this all unfolds because there's a whole bunch of people who want out from under Trump's thumb.
And I think we're going to see that happen.
Yeah.
Well, thanks.
Brian, are you around so you can close out the space?
Yeah, I am.
I can close it out.
Thanks, everybody.
Thanks, Duchess, Sphinx, Shane.
It's been fun. Yeah, everybody. Thanks, Duchess, Sphinx, Shane. It's been fun.
Yeah, nice chatting again, William.
It's been a while.
Everybody have a great rest of your day.
See you guys.
Bye.
