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Ep.#3 The Joe Show: ☢️🧪Nuclear Energy or Solar the great Debate📈
Recorded: June 17, 2025 Duration: 1:07:30Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, participants explored the rising trend of nuclear energy as a solution to global energy demands, contrasting it with the limitations of solar and wind. They highlighted significant investments in nuclear stocks, innovative partnerships in property tokenization, and the launch of new nuclear projects, indicating a shift in energy policy and investment strategies.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening and welcome to the Joe Show.
The date is June 16th, 2025. Today's show is sponsored
by Dead Cat Media, where Joe delivers unfiltered insights on DeFi and Web3. His conversations come
with a sharp eye for accountability and humor. Make sure to catch him on YouTube and X. Today's
episode is episode three, and your hosts hosts Joe and Banz are discussing nuclear
versus solar, the great debate. Welcome Joe. Hey, that was a great introduction. I'm going to steal
that. You don't have to steal it. You're paying for it. That's true. I'm trying to send the
payment now and I keep sending it to myself i don't know
what's wrong with me but i still do not know how to use crypto wallets after all this time
well how was your father's day yesterday was it a good one oh my god it was good yeah it was good
i didn't have to lift a finger it was great my uh my parents hosted and um we had lobster and steak
it was pretty good oh that sounds delightful see um my my family's a little bit more picky
with their food so i mean my my husband's family so i was like uh burgers hot dogs and macaroni
salad gotta keep it safe.
That would be fine for me.
Like, I figured, okay, make it easy.
Do some burgers, some cold salads,
even like get like a four-foot hero or something like that.
Whatever you guys, what do you guys call it upstate?
You call it sub.
We call it a hero.
Yeah, sub.
They're subs.
All right. So my mom always went all out for Father's Day when my grandfather was alive.
So it's like carried over to me.
So it was lobster steak.
And my brother had visitors from Germany.
His wife's family, they're Russian, but they live in germany so my my parents were
like showing off for them so they probably are going to go back to germany telling everyone
like oh my god like every sunday these americans they just eat so many lobsters and so much steak
it's because we ate like three times so they got like definitely the wrong um impression of what a barbecue is like my mom bought 22 lobsters for for 10 people 22 lobsters for 10 people your mom your mom sounds
amazing it was crazy like everybody got like one and a half well everyone like so like what do we went there like two o'clock like two o'clock
so my my dad has like this industrial um pot and burner that he has to use in the driveway
for um for tomato sauce so we do like tomato sauce like once a year so it's like huge i don't
know how many gallons it is or or what's the equivalent
of gallons in metric system for all the listeners of rack fm uh a gallon's like three and a half
liters or something like that so this must be like i don't know like 25 gallon i don't know
20 gallon thing 15 to 20 gallon um pot so you could do like 20 lobsters
at once in this thing so that's what we did and then we ate i cooked some steaks my grandmother's
there you know everyone's happy and then like three hours later my brother's like that was lunch
can we eat dinner now so all the leftover lobster we've made lobster rolls
and then cooked my god yeah so at holidays my brother we usually have it like early like
thanksgiving is early christmas eve kind of early well not anymore but christmas early my brother
will eat twice while he's there he'll say okay that was lunch can we have dinner now like
if there are leftovers for like thanksgiving he'll just unpack them and put them in the microwave while he's still at my parents' house.
That's how he rolls.
He has to eat three meals at the times that they're supposed to be.
Isn't that weird?
Is it because he likes his snacks?
You know what I mean?
Or is he tall? Does he work out a lot?
No, not even for him.
We're big eaters.
I could easily
eat, like
you and I have met, we're like the same size,
right? More or less?
Yeah, we're the same size.
On a day where I don't have a lot to do i could eat like
five six seven times like no problem like five six thousand calories probably not like three
days in a row i could pull this off but i could just eat non-stop like it's just it's a gift
and my brother like let's say he sleeps late right he sleeps till like noon
if he wakes up like what would
you do what would you eat at that time like lunch right yeah he'll eat breakfast and then
an hour later eat lunch to catch up like that's what he does so i'm not even kidding he's sick
he's sick in the head it's a tism he's having a tism yeah the itis he wakes up
that's hilarious so before um we jumped into the subject i know that we had originally named
the show um we were gonna kind of touch on some like nuclear stocks and why they're rising and
stuff and then we kind of changed the the name of it to
nuclear versus solar the great debate so i kind of wanted to touch on like what you know
what's going on with the nuclear stocks i'm curious you know oh yeah so the reason why i
wanted to touch on this was to stay away from like crypto stuff just to make it more light and also
i have actually like a bigger um stock account than i
have with crypto anyway so every once in a while i head over there and i manage it like maybe like
twice three times a year i'll shuffle some things around so once this like ai cloud compute thing
became like not only like a serious thing but a matter of like national international policy
right like if you don't have store data centers and servers and the the infrastructure to run ai
and you know cloud your your country's dead it's like not having um it's like not having uh irrigation right in your country so i i started
buying um nuclear stocks in 2020 which is still kind of late i would think right so like i bought
oh i don't i don't know about that it doesn't sound late to me because it seems like it's paying
off now so my it depends on which ones you bought my thinking was i thought democrats were more pro nuclear than republicans based on obama's terms i
thought my but then they had that nuclear problem let's call it a nuclear issue in japan so like
that fell out of favor quick and it's very hard to sell people on nuclear energy because of the
threat of like nuclear meltdown
and like the ecological
issues that come with that right
and I don't think it's
as bad as
it's been made out to be
and the regulations on
nuclear energy have been
excessive like where I live
I live on Long Island and I know
like in the 80s they built a
nuclear power plant and it wasn't like up to spec and they weren't even allowed to turn it on even
though it was like fully built so like that like the the way they trade nuclear energy is they
trade it like earth is going to explode if like one dude has a bad shift at the job, right?
But what it seems to me now is that the reason why nuclear has been so demonized over the years is probably because it's too simple of a solution to the energy needs.
Because the output of a nuclear power plant is insane for the little amount of space that it actually takes up and in general the waste is really little
right like it gives off steam and then it gives off like some leftover nuclear material but by
volume of that material it's not that much for the output so i'm thinking now that like this, everyone knows this green deal and windmill stuff is complete horseshit garbage. It is, it won't even come close to scratching the surface of the energy needs of like humanity in not only like 25 years, in like five years.
i said nuclear is probably the least crowded energy stock that i could buy so i bought like
in 2020 2021 i bought some nuclear stocks and then last year i bought oclo which has recently surged
like uh i bought it like seven eight dollars i bought it again at like 20 bought it again 25
it's like 67 now and for crypto people they'll say like oh it's only up 5x that sucks it's only up
10x that sucks for stocks that's like actually like a lot so realistically oil was like my big
trade during um lockdowns i went into oil did okay with oil and now i'm hoping like i'm early to uh
nuclear which i think is way better than than other stuff that's out
there than solar like i mean you solar is gonna do well because elon is like the big backer of
solar right he's gonna market solar he also likes nuclear by the way but for him solar is like
no-brainer because he's so heavily involved in in like the mining of whatever minerals are needed and
what the supply chain looks like to build solar panels. I hate that though, because those solar
panels are so ugly. They're so ugly. Like I live in, I live in a nice, I live in a nice area and
it's country area. Lots of, lots of trees. It's beautiful. They're there you know what i mean like it's very nice and then
when you're driving in to go to like the cities it takes about two hours while i'm driving maybe
maybe like almost halfway there i start to see these giant ass fucking windmills they're horrendous
huge white windmills and then there's like a feet there's a fields of them and then
And then there's a field of them.
And then next, right after them, comes the fields of solar panels.
And all of these solar panels are just laid all over the grass, all there, taking up all that space.
It doesn't even look like it belongs there.
I feel like the only way that solar panels make sense is if you're going to put them on your house.
You still need
a battery to keep it charged because it has to be charged during peak times so you can have
power at night one of the reasons why i'm interested in this is because i have like a
science background right so and i remember in college i had to write um i had to write in college
an analysis paper and i chose to write about nuclear weapons.
And I researched nuclear weapons.
This is like in 1999 or 2000, right?
No, actually, it was like 1998.
It was my freshman year.
So I had to do four papers for my freshman writing class.
Oh, sorry, no, that was not my analysis paper.
That was just my research paper.
So my research paper was on nuclear weapons and nuclear. If you research nuclear weapons
and how far they've advanced from like the 1940s, you will not sleep at night.
Knowing how devastating a really small bomb is now compared to 1944. I forget when it was 1943,
to 1944 i forget when it was 1943 when it was dropped in japan the level of destruction that
is capable now with these nuclear weapons is like more than 100 times what was done in to japan so
like right there i was like not a fan of nuclear power but then when i was doing my master's degree i i you know i'm a biology is what my degree is in i'm doing a paper on um on um
energy so i'm researching windmills i'm researching solar panels i'm researching nuclear power
so at the end of the research i'm left with like basically okay it's basically nuclear versus wind
for me windmills at least you could use the land for something.
And I had never seen a windmill, so I don't know how loud they are or how disruptive they are.
No, they're not loud.
Well, to animals, they're very loud.
Right.
So they redirect migration of insects and birds and alter reproductive behavior of insects.
Windmills are probably the worst.
I would rather just have a coal power plant right next to my house because a windmill doesn't even work without supplying it with diesel fuel.
You need to fuel these things.
And for the amount of steel that's needed to
build them over their useful life, they won't offset that. So they're basically like, uh,
like, like, uh, I don't know what you would call it. Like, um, like a vanity windmill. Like they're
not, they don't, they don't, they do not even put a dent in the energy that's needed. My idea as a student was like,
the sun is obviously reliable, right?
You can absorb solar energy
and we have batteries that can store it
because we know it's not sunny 24 hours a day.
But for me, the other thing was,
why can't we capture the tides, right?
Like why has no one tried to put turbines and you have a tide that goes in a tide that goes out basically four times a day, right?
Why is that not a thing?
Turns out that's really not good either for the environment.
Because not only, not only does this like interfere with everything going on in the ocean it has to be
maintained for debris and there's a shit ton of debris um and i'm sure like the first time a whale
swims into one it would be like the end of it for pita and all the animal rights groups
well they have the they have the they have the power dam the locks and stuff that they use the
water and they produce my cousin lives in a in a like a lake on a lake there's like thousands of
homes and the lake is enormous it's like 40 miles end to end and it's a man-made lake so they dam it
and then the water company um the energy company controls it and they supply power i think all of her power comes
from the the dam and there's like thousands of houses it's lake murray if you're interested
lake murray in south carolina it's freaking enormous the mileage of shoreline on this lake
has to be thousands of miles because it's not just like a round lake it's um it's 40 miles end to end and
there's all these branches that go out from the lake because it's it's built like basically between
mountains so it's not like a a nice round curved shoreline so that i think is cool i i'm sure
that that has disrupted the environment a lot but it's a lot more contained right because
it's just that area like there was no lake there now there's a lake so it affects the soil it
affects um the surrounding temperature probably it affects the plants and of course like they have
to stock it with um fish and whatnot that ordinarily would not be there.
So there's that.
So hydro for me, like I've seen it work.
It just, you know, there's other considerations.
I see.
I see.
So real quick, back to the, you know, we were talking about the stocks.
I'm going to name off some that I had pulled up.
Do any of them sound familiar?
New Scale, SMR, Oklo.
Yeah, that's the one that I just bought like a year ago.
And I bought more of it during the turbulence in the market when Trump was screwing with tariffs.
Oh, shit.
It's up 70 percent from january yeah it
still has a lot of room to run because um i have it right in front of me hold on the market cap
will be two and a half billion dollars for an oil company that's like not even a small cap
right like oil companies are way bigger than than aqua okay so what about ceg constellation ceg no um that's one of the big
ones that's up like 80 yeah okay so that's the one that made the deal with microsoft calvine
uh acquisition or facebook i can't remember microsoft deal with um the it was a microsoft deal with the cow
fine acquisition right so basically first of all like for the audience that's going to listen to
this and there are a few people here presumably you're interested in like not only stocks but
like just the conversation about energy there's i have no expertise in this whatsoever whatsoever
i would like an intermediate investor I invest in in my
retirement account because it's tax-free where I could buy and sell in in the retirement account
I am not I never worked for an energy company I just have a I have a science background and
I teach science so it's like an interest and a hobby it is it is not like I have no expertise
so we'll probably miss a lot of big companies what's
really interesting though that ties crypto and ai and technology with this is that these tech
companies are are are having basically custom-built power plants in association with their um
their data centers so that they get their own energy supply they don't have to rely on
whatever the energy supply is for that city or that is it like a mini nuclear station or something
well constellation what i have here is they signed a 20-year power deal with meta
for one of their existing power plants i guess to power metas um you know, data crunching servers and whatnot.
But you're bringing up something
that just happened last year, right?
Like the Microsoft is going to have one built for scratch
specifically for like their Azure products, I guess.
Whatever hardware is needed
for their cloud computing segment,
they're going to have their own power plant for that.
And that's how it's going to be.
There's going to be cities that run their run their um you know all their
computing and all that stuff with their own proprietary energy supply coming from probably
nuclear is why i wanted to have this conversation so what you know that um isn't there a town in new jersey isn't it a town new jersey that's trying to
tokenize the whole city that i'm not aware of and if they're trying to do that i mean
crypto and ai go hand in hand crypto especially like proof of stake is very light on energy
right it's not really much that you need you could eventually we'll be running proof of stake nodes on our phones most likely but ai compute storage is not the case it needs a shit ton of
energy what's the town do you know well i guess i think it's i can google it real quick but i
thought it was like east rutherford or maybe i wrong. I don't know. That's really close to New York City, too.
East Rutherford's where the Meadowlands is.
Giant Stadium is there.
If people are familiar with the Northeast,
you could see New York City from East Rutherford.
Manhattan, you could see it.
Been there many times, actually, because I'm a Devils fan.
I used to go to uh
the uh the arena there which was um they play in newark now but i forget the name of the arena
oh it's uh however bergen county new jersey is bergen county new jersey yeah that's that's
northeast new jersey a lot of people a lot of famous people live there actually bergen i used
to work in Bergen County.
It's northeast New Jersey, right over the George Washington Bridge.
It's like Paramus.
It's Fort Lee, like these really high-end shopping districts.
It says, real quick, the AI pulled up.
However, Bergen County in New Jersey is mentioned as planning to tokenize 240 billion in property records on
the Avalanche Network. This initiative involves digitizing 370,000 property records, making the
largest property de-tokenization project in the US. I mean, that's almost like we need a whole
episode on that. That's like one of the most interesting things because that's like, oh, we're actually doing something with crypto. We're not just selling tokens that are for paying gas on a network that you don't ever need to use. That's interesting. they've been involved in institutional investment portfolio rebalancing
with JP Morgan or Citibank, one of those.
And now they're involved in this.
This is pretty good for Avalanche.
But I wonder, you know, with all that,
would they, does that tie in with the power needs too?
Or am I reaching?
I don't know know i think that every
every city is going to be consuming additional power like it's funny because like we're getting more efficient but we're also getting less efficient at the same time because technology
is going to need like for, for AI to run.
Like, right now we use Grok, right?
It's basically free.
Or we use ChatGTP, it's free.
It's not free.
They're burning through tons of cash to make sure we use it.
Eventually we're going to be paying hundreds of dollars a month to use AI.
Like, that's the fact, right?
Like, you pay $100 a month now for your phone.
Your phone does absolutely jack shit compared to what AI can do.
Your phone is a supercomputer by like standards of 10 years ago.
But I think that I'm fully expecting to pay double, triple, quadruple what my phone bill is just to have the privilege of using different AI products.
And it will be priced into everything that we do, like ai uses a ton of energy um and everything will run with some ai um i don't know what you
call like a complimentary ai system that's gonna have to get paid for somehow it's going to be priced into like subscriptions and and energy costs like we'll be subsidizing that yeah because we um pulled up the pros and cons
of nuclear versus solar energy i mean i honestly think that we need the nuclear energy for our
power demands i mean it it literally says go ahead i was gonna say the scalability is off
the charts for nuclear and in some countries they've basically banned it so they're gonna
have to open it up and i think i think china they're in the middle of building like 20 or 30
nuclear power plants in the united states it's like two so or something okay but in the united
states for a for a whole nuclear power plant to go up it takes 10 to 19 it could
take 10 to 19 years before it's like operational that's why i think like that and i don't know
why is that though um i think the regulations around nuclear are insane i'm sure it's super
complicated i'm sure the technology has changed a lot like in the last 10 years sourcing the uranium enriching the uranium um you're
dealing with like radioactive material that has like uh really long half-lives it's i'm sure it's
like really not fun to store and and um and transport um but yeah i saw a 10-year minimum
like if if if uh let's say a city or a county or state approves a nuclear power plant to be built i think
one was just approved in south carolina another one idaho the the administration that approves
that is not going to be the one that oversees the building of it so it's like there's a lot
of things in there that just don't make sense but i think we'll we'll be forced into this because the footprint for a nuclear power plant is really small.
The output is gigantic.
And compared to like 50 years ago, we should be able to deal with nuclear waste a lot better, in my opinion.
So it says one kilogram of uranium equals 2.7 million kilograms of coal.
That makes sense.
And coal is not easy to source either right you're like you're like cutting all open mountains to find it uranium is in like a few places in high
amounts right uranium is in canada has a lot um australia has a lot and then like areas like
fairly close to the middle east have varying amounts i was looking
at a map the other day of it um uranium deposits think ukraine or there's there's a country like
of course like a country that's um of course involved in like tons of geopolitical issues um
like tons of geopolitical issues um let me see uranium sources by country and of course yeah
oh kazakhstan that's the other one not ukraine kazakhstan yeah so yeah kazakhstan canada australia
look like um top three niger and russia so if you're blessed to be in a country that has a shit ton of uranium maybe in
like 25 50 years you'll be like a top three economy top five economy if you're not already
which is huge because you could always export it right if you're not going to allow the building
of it or like you're just like don't have those power needs you can get by another way that's
something that you're selling hopefully and making a shit ton of money off of
is there uranium in space like is there a rock where we can send elon he can go and
and mine some uranium for us i think there's enough like i think there's enough
available because it hasn't really been mined to shit yet like a lot of other things
so it also says
well well let's see the pros and cons of nuclear energy pros high energy density nuclear fuel is
extremely efficient with one kilogram of uranium wait a minute i'm reading nuclear I'm reading the nuclear energy ones, but I want to see the pros and cons of solar energy.
So low cost, easy setup, can deploy it in nine months.
It's been normalized.
It's renewable and abundant.
Zero emissions.
i mean how is there zero emissions but what one household could offset a good amount of
I mean, how is there zero emissions?
their electricity use if they're if they're you know geographically you know positioned
to to absorb enough solar energy throughout the year by like the rooftop panels but if you have
property you know you have property where you could just afford to like sacrifice some square
footage of your of your property for solar panels
i see them where i live um like where i live is very close to new york city new york city new
york state have been subsidizing these things for like more than 10 years like 15 20 years
but if i drive out east to like the farmlands i just see like a house and then like next to the
house there's like land dedicated to these ugly-ass solar panels.
Yeah, it needs 75% more land than nuclear.
That's crazy.
You know, when I was in junior high school, this is going off topic here.
But we're about to up to the open mic, so I'll definitely call class. It that's why i was like we hit the 9 30 red eye popped in i was like i gotta give
red eye so here's my story and this is like how old i am when i was in eighth grade i took earth
science i took earth science in eighth grade it's 1993 or something like that 1994 my teacher told
me he told the class i remember it i would say say his name if this is not recorded. I remember his name. He said by the year 2025, also it must be 1995. So he said 30 years, there will be no more oil.
we will need to use solar energy and like there's like a popular mechanics cover i think it's popular
mechanics or one of those magazines where they had a concept car that was basically solar panels it
looked like like one of those like b2 stealth bombers but it was a car and i was like whoa
that means like by the time i'm driving there'll be solar-powered cars and airplanes and shit like that. That just sounds awesome.
And it turns out he was fucking lying totally because...
Am I allowed to curse for Spotify?
I'm sorry.
No, yeah, you can curse our show.
We have to know.
We're not even close to that.
And instead, we're just retrofitting solar panels onto roofs subsidized heavily by the government because they're not
cost efficient yet and by the way there's so much oil like it's ridiculous so we don't have
to worry about that but but obviously there's going to be like a sensible person it's like
all right we can get this far with solar energy like households can be powered by solar up to
this percent depending on where you live but we will
still need coal we will still need oil of course like nuclear fixes problems like in the next 10
years it sounds like but welcome red eye how are you what's going on guys this is an interesting
topic that's what we're trying to do man we're trying to make it interesting i've actually got solar panels uh and yes enjoyed the 51 combined um uh it's not a tech uh what is it
it's basically like uh if you have in or sorry taxes that you're supposed to pay it offsets that i'm just blanking
on the name right now it's like if i had ten thousand dollars worth of federal combined federal
and state uh taxes today and i had ten thousand dollars oh tax credits that's what it is okay
yeah that was lovely uh it was like 25 federal 26, 26% for the state of South Carolina.
Yeah, see, we purposely don't want to get into politics,
but I'll just say I don't like tax credits at all.
I don't think anyone should get tax credits.
I think it should just be more fair tax system.
It should be enticing enough for you to want to do it regardless.
I'm okay with local tax credits, like a federal tax credit to me like
that shouldn't exist but but uh oh yeah oh yeah especially because you could end up subsidizing
someone to get solar panels in an area where they% of the world's rooftops who need to be covered with solar panels to be able to meet the world's global electricity needs.
But not all of the world's buildings or in areas or like the inner sorry the population dense areas or
uh would be able to benefit from that so i think you need a combined
uh amount solar is very it's awesome for rural uh it's low maintenance it doesn't require hands-on
uh maintenance to make it run like nuclear power plants. Obviously you have to have people there making sure that's running.
That's where Homer Simpson works.
But also like it's getting better.
Like I,
I personally think the idea of creating smaller power,
smaller nuclear power plants serving smaller,
you know,
I almost called the user base,
your smaller populations, then I think that would actually work out better. Your risk of fallout would be a lot smaller because, again, the power generation area is a lot smaller. But, I mean,
areas a lot smaller.
But, I mean, my state is also, I believe, the second largest, or has the second, on
the list of all the states that have the most energy produced by nuclear power.
I believe South Carolina is the second.
Yeah, I think they just greenlit another one, actually.
I'm pretty sure they just made a deal with either Oclo or someone like that to build
another one in the pretty sure they just made a deal with either oclo or someone like that to build another one in the next 10 years it was idaho and yeah we're the two like recently yeah duke power
is a really big um power company and they've got a bunch of nuclear reactors in the upstate lakes
oh i didn't even know they were heavily involved in uh nuclear so when i did my search for stock oh yeah they're yeah
isolated out uh my criteria was must be a company that does primary business in in the solar panel
industry or solar energy injury and then the other search was the same thing but for nuclear so i
don't even have duke on my list is i know duke is like most of the south because my you know when i was in florida that's
who i paid for my electricity they must be one of the biggest providers
the largest energy provider in the in south carolina at least yeah i think in florida too
and florida is a big state so yeah they've got uh two nuclear power plants one's the catawba nuclear station the other is
the oconey nuclear station i've been to the oconey nuclear station uh they have a capacity of 2.3
oh wait uh 2.3 thousand megawatt and 2.5 thousand megawatt uh capacity respectively
yeah got it everything all right and one of the things i wanted to throw out there with 5,000 megawatt capacity respectively.
Yeah.
Got it.
Everything.
All right.
And one of the things I wanted to throw out there with solar panels is depending on how you go about getting them,
you might not even own them,
right?
You're kind of leasing them.
Oh yeah.
You better make sure you read those contracts.
And so then when you sell your house,
like you also need to like transfer over those solar panels and then who
gets the tax credit then, right? Are you just, are you just like a sucker that wants those solar panels and then who gets the tax credit then right are you
just are you just like a sucker that wants to be green and then some other i think you actually can
at least in my state uh i believe you can sell your tax credits like there are secondary markets
where yeah i believe because at least in in my state i can only use $2,500 of tax I think it's like 25 or $3,500 uh per year in
tax credits with federal I can use as I think as much as I want uh but the state it's smaller
amounts so people if they have a larger amount of tax credits and they want to access that capital
quicker they'll sell it you know for 90 cents on the dollar right so the solar whatever industry
in general seems to be highly dependent on policy being favorable for subsidies because
when i pulled up my list of solar stocks um four out of the five are down year to date
and the reason is um the renewable energy tax credits in canada i'm sorry in the united states is had been ended
right they're phasing out those renewable energy tax credits whereas if i look at the stock
performance for nuclear um they're all up close to triple digits or into triple digits so so like like there's there's a changing of the
guard happening and i think that where where at least the current u.s administration
is hell-bent on removing regulations they're also not going to give any help to green energy because
obviously one of the things that that trump's been fighting is the Green New Deal stuff, which it looks good on paper and it's spun in like a positive way.
But I see it as I see it as regulations and I'm sure most people in his administration see this regulation.
So by peeling back regulations, they're going to hurt solar most likely up and down and they're going to help nuclear which has
been like choked out by heavy regulations since i've been alive i wonder because uh you know
if i'm not mistaken uh the oil industry uh receives a fair bit of subsidies at least in the
yeah but also they're almost like partners with the Pentagon. Right.
And,
and like the U S military.
So it's like,
I get,
well,
people should also realize petroleum and its importance to the world
economy goes way beyond a fuel.
Right.
to generate,
to like use for transportation or for,
you know,
electricity generation.
It's used in a ton of products.
You just have to say plastic.
Like,
like it's in plastic.
Yeah.
That's all petroleum based packaging,
plastic.
Like it's,
it's,
it's not going anywhere.
It's like a wet dream for people that say like,
we're going to get rid of fossil fuels.
Like that's not happening.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there's way more fossil fuels than,
than like we,
we even
know about.
Um, it, it's the fact that you have like, like the output for something like nuclear
is so great.
Like it doesn't make sense to choke it out when our technology is moving in a direction
where, where we're going to require energy consumption just to keep our
economy relevant, right?
Now, one thing that I will say is like a headwind for nuclear power generation is that these
companies and their regulating bodies and the enforcement arms of these regulatory bodies, they're going to have to
keep up with the maintenance of these reactors. And if I'm not mistaken, there's a large amount
of nuclear power reactors that are either at the brink of their age when they need to be
decommissioned or have like really large services or past that date. So, you know, when we talk right now, the U.S. has not been,
or at least the federal government, federal properties has not been maintaining a lot of
it. This is good info because this also presents an opportunity as well, because if you could
position your stock portfolio into companies that are going to
absorb all those contracts right upgrading nuclear power plants decommissioning nuclear reactors
like that is to me because the context before you came on i do my stock investing i don't even have
a brokerage account i do do everything in a Roth IRA
and a traditional and a rollover IRA.
So I'm investing with at least three to,
like, I don't want to buy a stock
and then sell it in the same year.
Like I'm buying a stock and I'm like,
I'll check it in a year,
but I don't plan to sell it.
Like I'm thinking like two to five years
before I do any major repositioning in my portfolio something where
like you know nuclear is going to be be you know deregulated but also at the same time what you
described where a lot of them basically expire and they need to be need to be um at least
maintained there's there are companies that are going to absorb all those contract
and maybe those will be subsidized as well in the beginning just to keep them competitive because
i mean energy like elon musk basically like measures quality of life and all that in energy
consumption for your country right like that's that that's a that's a direct there's a direct correlation there whether you believe that
or not it's fine i i i have no way of saying that he's wrong or anything but it makes sense that
that you're you're like the wealth of a nation could be measured in its energy output per citizen
but also the the the way in which that energy is sourced and paid for and distributed.
I think countries would take a lot of pride in being a net exporter or having the capacity to
be a net exporter of energy. I know the US surely does. We take, I think, well, okay,
let me say not everyone probably takes pride in this it makes
sense because if you're one of the biggest if you're one of the biggest producers and you're
not exporting you're also kind of manipulating the the market value of well you could be doing it in
preparation of expansion of domestic manufacturing,
which I know Trump has been talking about wanting to do
a little bit more, you know,
like these new chip manufacturing plants,
they're gonna require, I assume,
some extremely large energy production facilities
to be able to handle that.
And I know Tesla has talked about needing,
and a lot of these other AI companies have talked about needing large-scale power generation for that's what we talked about right before you
came in we're talking about how microsoft and meta like they have their own power plants to run yeah
compute so so i think um so the oklio nuclear um you know the oklio one that you were telling me
that you bought more of joe yeah that's number one in my portfolio now.
So that's a nuclear technology company.
And apparently they just were designated and they were awarded the clean and reliable power contract with the Ellison Air Force Base in Alaska through a micro reactor project.
micro reactor project this contract this contract no it's okay this contract issued by the defense
That's what set off the price recently.
logistics logistics agency energy dla on behalf of the department of air force daf marks a
significant milestone for oakley as it aims to deploy its aurora powerhouse micro reactor cool
we also we didn't get into it and i don't know much about it anyway but like geothermal is like another somewhat sustainable option it's just like not many places on earth
can wasn't there somebody mining bitcoin with geothermal or with volcano right i think i'll
solve it well think about this right iceland is a country that basically went bankrupt, right?
Iceland at one point was basically
the poorest European country.
Rest of Europe got together
and basically bought their banks, right?
Something like that.
They are situated on,
they're one of the few places on earth
that's not underwater that is situated
right on um tectonic plate boundary where you could see the divide and you could see
um the split in earth's crust there's tons of geothermal energy there harnessing it's a whole other thing. And I'm sure that's like super difficult to do.
But you could have an entire country that went from like the poorest to the richest in a short amount of time if they're able to harness that and then become, like Red Eye said, an exporter of energy.
But I'm sure, like, listen, there's no way I'm the first person that thought of this.
But there has to be a reason why it's not the norm in places like that how would you i think when
we think about exporting energy it has to be in a form that you can like
logistically and reliably export you know this is why oil works well it's a liquid that can fit or
gaseous uh um compressed gas yeah yeah you can put those into containers if you're generating like
raw electricity you have to put that into something I mean there are ways you can do it you can
I mean you can use that electricity to split water into hydrogen and
oxygen and recombine it later you would have to store it as some potential energy could be
you know how like we we measure our energy reserves in barrels of oil like our stockpile
i think eventually we're going to be measuring that in batteries right we're going to be measuring
that in in like yes but this is only that is one type of way to store electricity, like at an individual's home,
that's probably an easy way for them to have like a battery backup system. It doesn't necessarily
make sense for a home to have a hydrogen fuel cell there to like take excess energy from solar and
split water into hydrogen oxygen so that
when your power goes out or you need to use your battery you just recombine them that's like way
more complicated than a battery but when you're talking about really large-scale energy generation
i think you have to start considering other forms of storage for potential energy i remember when i
was a kid my parents were
going to move to north carolina and every house that we we went to go look at had a gigantic uh
gas tank piped you know i think it had to be like 100 feet or 100 yards away from that whatever it
was and i was amazed because first of all i never saw houses like that far apart and then i was just
like you know i'm in seventh grade and I'm like, why is it so far
from the house?
And my dad's like, cause it could explode.
I'm like, oh, all right.
That makes sense.
I remember, I mean, you know, my parents pushed me to do, um, you know, to excel and do lots
of a variety of different things.
But I remember one thing very clearly about like, I don't know if it was a variety of different things but i remember one thing very clearly about like
i don't know if it's a piece of advice or just like just something that stuck out in my mind but
i remember my uh my father telling me like if you can figure out what the next basically the next
uh evolution of batteries is this next way to store energy uh efficiently
and like this is what's going to be the next thing to make people a shit ton of money like
this that makes sense that makes sense right because what it's lithium now and everyone's
fighting over lithium um yeah and it destroys uh the habitat that is that i mean any sort of
strip mining it's going to be it's just
going to destroy can't sodium also be used to store energy um i think i think sodium is like
a relatively safe mineral that um can be used to store um energy but i'm not sure exactly how it
works i think um i think it absorbs naturally solar energy and it heats up and then like
I think it absorbs naturally solar energy and it heats up and then like it,
it can give, now it can,
now it can radiate that energy back over like a certain amount of hours,
a certain amount of days. So something like that, right?
You're saying like the next material, whether it's natural or man-made,
that's going to be the core component of energy storage.
Doesn't have to be a battery, but any kind of energy storage,
you're saying that was what your your dad told you to brainstorm like I guess you didn't figure
it out because you're here that is correct but I mean you can get real uh you know creative with
this uh an example would be if I wanted to store energy now this wouldn't be this isn't necessarily efficient i've done the math on
this but like i could pump water to a uh um like a higher elevation and then use that water you
know the gravity of that water falling to a lower elevation to be able to spend turbines and generate
electricity like so that potential energy is stored in potential
it's basically it's basically you're you have kinetic energy and you're changing it to potential
energy and then you you you have it on demand right yep nice we got a we got another speaker
well he's trying to he's trying to like come on but i don't know if he's able to and I think captain Bob wanted to come up but I just wanted to add that sodium is an energy
producer if you add it to water pure sodium that is it fucking blows up and
it blows away by creating hydrogen gas I remember that my coolest thing about
the periodic table is like you could just go right down the column and you
could just get more explosive in that what is that is that column one or column two in the uh
in the um periodic table do you know i think it's column two
genuinely don't know that part i just know that it blows up really nice that's like the main
property of that entire column on the table it's either one or two anyway we've got captain bob up here and don't forget um bands it's in five minutes it's time for the joke we don't want to go
too far past the time like we've been oh man can you hear my favorite part yeah i can hear you okay
good um this cute's coming up did he is he able to connect you must not be oh no oh okay i'm just be quiet for a second
i'll uh bob i can hear you yeah welcome oh good hey joe yeah this is chris from cardamia man how you doing whoa how you doing man all right it's been a minute dude i i stumbled on your spaces
now but it dovetails very nicely i've so i spent the last year building a bitcoin line
and i'm currently installing a hundred
kilowatt uh commercial solar kind of on top of it i'm like a grid tie uh and it's like you know
a whole deep dive and uh whoa it's super fun i remember you were you were venturing there like
i think the last time i talked to you specifically about that was probably like a year and a half
ago or something like that maybe maybe even more it was like the it was like dead bottom of bear market i think when i oh yeah it was rough
times uh but no we did it and i actually just got a big old inverter delivered like a couple days
ago and then i got a deal on these panels um recently because one thing that's happening right
now in the market is a lot of commercial uh solar farms are like upgrading to the the next gen because there's like way way way more efficient panels out now
um so there's a lot of like the last gen panels which are still pretty good um have come on the
market which is pretty you know got it and is there use for the old ones like so those can be
like secondary market and because in the beginning i don't
know if you were here in the beginning we're talking about like pros cons definitely for
solar panels an individual household can actually deploy them and get something out of it right away
right so yeah individual households for sure i have i have land so i'm a little bit different than
the right because when you put them on your roof it does come with like a little bit different than the average bearer. Because when you put them on your roof,
it does come with a little bit increased liability.
I think your insurance also goes up a little.
But if you have just a little bit of land, man.
So I'm using 300-watt panels.
I think the farm we got these from is upgrading to like 650.
And if you just kind of,
if you look at what what an average phone uses
you know you don't need a joe i need you to check your dms real quick
okay i think we lost you don't need like a 400 kilowatt setup you could do you know like a 20 kilowatt setup which isn't really that much um i can hear you i just can't hear anybody else so i'm
just gonna let you close it out okay no problem all right well we have a couple minutes if you don't mind
i don't six minutes oh yeah no i don't i mean so i'm gonna have to let you do the everything else
i'm just gonna sit here kind of quietly oh that's what i'm trying to say you shut it down when i say
to shut it down no i'm just like just like, hold on. All right. No problem. No problem.
Anyway, yeah. I just wanted to say people that are looking into solar,
you know, give it a, give it a good look.
Cause there's a lot more efficient tech out there right now than there was even a few years ago.
Yeah. No, I think if I had land, I would definitely look into it.
I have two friends that live in New York city and they got pretty sweet deals from the state to put them on their roof and i think one of my friends i think he laid out he must have had them
for like 15 years he must i think he laid out like twenty thousand dollars and within like a couple
years he made it all back and like the tax credits and the uh the perks that they threw on top but he
was like one of the first people to do it. I don't think it's that
juicy now in New York.
And we were talking
before about like the federal
subsidies are going to get phased out and all that.
But if it could stand alone, if there's like a
secondary market, like almost like an entry
level for people that can
just, if they have land
or they want to, you know,
any space for it, it's definitely an interesting option.
You're using it for Bitcoin mining?
Yeah, I'm basically, I'm using it for two things.
I'm augmenting our Bitcoin mining.
It'll probably decrease our power bill, I think, probably like close to 20% when it's all juiced up.
And then it'll just nuke my home power bill.
Got it. home doesn't
have you been doing this for more than a full year so far oh yeah uh we started the mine last march
and then i've only jumped into the solar side of this in the last like two months
um i was just i was coming across some like really killer deals. And so yeah, I had like a flatbed of panels
like a month ago, which was crazy.
Got it.
Because you and I are pretty much like,
if we look at the earth,
we're like pretty much the same latitude.
But like in the winter,
is there a huge fluctuation
between like what you're able to produce with those?
Massive, yeah.
Because if you don't live in the North,
you don't realize like it gets really
dark like the hours of sunshine and the intensity even at noon is probably like way less
the intensity sucks yeah the flip side of that is uh during the summertime you know the sun almost
doesn't set right um so it's kind of especially if you're grid tied, which is what I'm doing, like I'm just augmenting this.
Um, it can be a pretty awesome savings.
And then if you're not grid tied, you got to get in the battery.
Got it.
Cute, you got some land.
Are you going to tell us that you got a solar farm?
Uh, no, no, I am off grid.
Um, but I, I'm not a solar farm.
There's a lot.
Google's energy city or whatever is out here in
Texas, though. I do respect this guy that's from Ada here at Cutes Cult. We are cult aficionados,
and Ada is very up there in terms of cults, so thank you very much. But how many watts are you
running, and how many acres, and what size facility do you run
using auxiliary shit like a power wall or whatever yeah no good questions so we've got a half megawatt
on this first facility which is going to max out at 75 hydro pooled units I think we're we're
approaching 50 right now and then the solar is the first
augmentation to the power. We don't have any batteries or anything like that. I might experiment
with them, but I did look into lithium-ion, and a lot of people are using used vehicle batteries.
Yeah, those will vent out bad gases, though, I think.
Yeah, I basically decided to not go that route sounds like man. This increases the likely of something bad happening pretty substantially.
Yeah, you got a storm in a facility away from your house so you're not inhaling them too. Yeah.
But yeah, that's that's what we've been doing. And it's all working. And it's great. We have really cheap power here. It's all hydroelectric up here.
It's great.
We have really cheap power here
because it's all hydroelectric up here,
a bunch of dams and rivers and all that.
Oh, nice.
Yeah, in New York, I know we have upstate,
there was a nuclear power plant that they built,
I guess like in the 70s or whatever,
and it happened to be on an earthquake fault.
So imagine that.
Red Eye, I'll let you jump in here and then,
Banzo, are we almost ready for the
the final joke this is my favorite it's it's a good one bud and also yes we need we're ready
for the final joke i just i just hopped onto the laptop so i can hear you guys oh no problem can i
um can i also copy my my like stock research so you could throw it in the show notes for um spotify is that cool
or is there no place for that um i don't know let's uh let's find out i have to ask
i have to ask the boys i'm not sure maybe i'll like figure out a way to how to put this episode
on my website and then um i'll put i'll put it there yeah like on your youtube i have a real website oh i know it's like dead cat dead cat crypto.io i'm not allowed to see that site in texas anymore
that's like an adult thing is that what you just said you can't see that the site why
uh just sorry red eyed hey joe did you go to bitcoin 2025 no i i can't travel at all i don't even
have the right license that i realized i'm gonna take care of that this week i can't go in here
i don't know if i told you i have like another kid since we talked so there's no way i'm going
anywhere for a while oh yeah fair enough wait another one like recently well it's two she's
two but the last i think the last time i talked oh that's not last time i talked to him was probably
like about it had to be two years ago now that i think about it it was supposed to yeah yep yep
so no traveling i was in uh i think i think cutes was alluding that dead cat your dead cat website
might have some uh adult content on it which no it doesn't it does
not but i i also own dead cat crypto.com and i forgot that i had that domain so i don't know
why i put the website on.io is it easy to switch it over or can i just direct traffic i'm gonna
have to talk to my fiverr guy and figure that out yeah i happen to be that fiverr guy you just set
up a redirect in your settings on your domain okay Okay. Because my email is deadcatcrypto.com and my website's .io.
And I'm like, wow, amateur hour over here.
Maybe I should have consulted someone.
But yeah, I'll get it on the website because this is a good talk that we could revisit,
especially as the market shifts and whatnot.
One of the point I wanted to say was, you know, what Captain Bob brought up with this using solar energy to offset thought of as a form of potential value.
I've heard that before.
Because you can then exchange that Bitcoin for something else.
But in the sense where an energy production facility would have a small bitcoin
mining operation where during times of uh where they're producing more energy than the grid is
actually generating then you know they are able to mine with that add some hash power to some group
and then you know be able to profit from that that way it's not just kind of yeah yeah i've heard that
explained before i can't explain it to someone else but the way you just explained it like okay
that's what it was so almost like like an arbitrage type thing there there's actually a lot of that um
ercott the state of texas you know our grid's kind of a meme uh will pay bitcoin miners on a large
scale like millions and millions of dollars in subsidies to not mine Bitcoin whenever our grid's under stress.
And then as far as energy efficiency goes, BlackRock and whatnot bought a large, large, when I say large, like city-sized wind farm up in Ira Ann, Texas.
And it's just Bitcoin miners now in the wind farm are just doing it.
All right. Didn't know that existed that's pretty cool man this this is something we have to revisit uh maybe we'll get robo on here
i'm sure robo uh has some stuff to uh he's down there but uh it's too early for him to come on the
uh on on the show um bands you ready for you ready for my hilarious joke i think i told this one
before not on this hit me okay hit me same comedian so it's going to be like the same
kind of thing so um so um a man old man he's uh he's home at night and he gets a phone call
it's a state troopers it's is the old man robo no it's the guy's older than robo oh because last time was like there was like two both jokes were about
robo so now is robo in this joke too there's this old man okay so old man gets woken up okay
woken up in the middle of the night um gets a phone call state troopers like sir um we need
you to come down to the hospital your wife she's been in a terrible accident guy jumps out of bed grabs his glasses puts on his shoes jumps in the car speeds down
to the hospital they meet him at the emergency room uh entrance and he's freaking out already
so doctors there um security's there they're like he's like where's my wife where's my wife
she's like sir just calm down for a second um it's terrible he's like what happened to your wife we've never
actually seen before um for the rest of her life she's not going to be able to take care of herself
you're gonna have to feed her you're gonna have to bathe her. You're going to have to help her go to the bathroom, clean every orifice for her.
She's not going to be able to.
The man can't even hear.
He just breaks down crying.
Doctor puts his hand on the man's shoulder as he goes down to one knee.
And the man just like, this is terrible.
My life is ruined.
And the doc says, you know, I'm just fucking with you.
She's dead so you got some good laughs this time i think last time you said everyone should have to
what comedian is this it's it's it's still a gilbert godfrey joke
he's one of the best at that just like rant runs his own joke into a brick
wall so great but i saw him live and i i just love his stuff i saw him live like years ago he's the
only comedian that i uh i tried to record while i was at the at the show because i was sitting so
close and i got in trouble for it so i don't have any no footage but uh it was a good one that's it
that that's that's it that's the joe show it always
ends like that joe i've got uh i i was doing some brainstorming earlier this afternoon on some oh
i'm sorry did you not hear red eye what he missed all did you not hear this is the joe show the joke
we'll work on that no because then it'll be it's not as fun It was an ending joke. You should have immediately muted me. You, everyone.
We'll work on that.
No, because it's not as fun.
It's better to interrupt you and stuff.
Have a good night, everybody.
I'll post a recap of this tomorrow with the stocks,
and then we can try to figure out a way to put this in the show notes.
Q, it's nice talking to you.
I'll get on that NFT migration probably tomorrow, actually.
I ran out of time today.
Shut the fuck up.
And Chris, nice talking to you.
It's been a while, buddy.
And Red Eye, always a pleasure.
I have no idea what he's talking about.
Shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up.
Good night.
Good evening. Good morning. Goodbye. he's talking about shut the fuck up shut the fuck up good night good evening good morning goodbye
