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ETH ATH IMMINENT! How high will it go this cycle?🎙️
Recorded: Aug. 13, 2025 Duration: 0:59:19Space Recording
Short Summary
Ethereum is on the verge of a significant growth phase as it approaches all-time highs, driven by new upgrades, increased market interest, and a shift in investor sentiment. The conversation highlights the evolving landscape of DeFi and the competitive pressures from emerging blockchain solutions.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Welcome, everybody. Welcome. This is our new time of hosting the weekly crypto show.
It's going to be every Wednesday at 8 p.m. UTC, 4 p.m. Eastern Standard
Time. We have been hosting it for the better part of two and a half years, almost three years
at the noon hour. But honestly, just way too much saturation at that time. I'm getting invited to a
lot of spaces as well at that time. So I think this is a i'm trying to experiment with different
time slots because there are there are periods uh during the day where i'm looking for a crypto
space to kind of join and have discussions around that isn't super dgen and i can't find any so this
is one of the time slots that i'm experimenting with and let me know what you guys think pulse
welcome cat welcome guys you can please retweet the space? It would mean a lot.
Gets the word out there. I am excited about ETH. I don't want to say I capitulated on ETH,
or I was about to capitulate on ETH, but I was losing hope for the cycle. I really was.
I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. The whole ETH is dead narrative I thought was always stupid.
But I just I wasn't sure if it was going to get the attention that it deserves this cycle with all the attention on Bitcoin, all the attention on Solana.
But but here we are right where the all time high is imminent.
I'm not really celebrating just yet. I care more about Satoshi, Satoshi per ETH, Satoshis per ETH rather than dollars per ETH. And I've gone into that time and time again in the past.
I think we're still sitting at about 3.6 million Satoshis per Ethereum.
The previous cycle's high, I believe, was 9 million Satoshis.
And the 2017 cycle high was 15 million Satoshis.
So, you know, I'm not going to do a victory lap or anything like that.
I am happy to see ETH getting its time in the sun.
I do think that, you know, as we covered in the past, having someone like Charlie, sorry, having someone like Tom Lee championing Ethereum to TradFi and the normie world is really important.
In the past, we did spaces.
Does ETH need?
It's Michael Saylor.
And I think almost we all unanimously agreed that it does.
And now we're getting it.
And now we have the narrative of L2s for company like Amazon, Walmart, Bank of America, like
Starbucks, and all the great stuff that happens on L2s can then be interoperable with the
stuff that happens on the L1 and everything settles back on the L1 there's a lot to cover a lot to talk about but i pulse how you feeling man
how are you feeling about this eth rally where do you you know all-time high is imminent in dollar
values where do you think it is going from from their price discovery how long do you think the
cycle is going to be what's your um what's your narrative right now good thing i'm not the guy that's going to do a 20 minute answer to that question, because I was about 20 minutes.
Where are the questions? I have no idea where Ethereum is going to go.
I've just felt like because of where Bitcoin is that you would have thought ETH would already be higher by now.
So I will I will graciously accept a new time all time high from Ethereum.
I'm happy. It doesn't seem like my timeline is going as crazy for everything
being as close it is because it's not just ETH we're talking about. We're talking about Bitcoin
being within single percentage points. BNB is also flirting with it. Solana's over 200. So things are
bullish on my timeline, but it's interesting because my timeline doesn't seem to be giving
me that same energy back. One thing I am looking at though is the all-time high also for crypto
market cap overall, which we're actually experiencing right at, though, is the all-time high also for crypto market cap
overall, which we're actually experiencing right now. It's at an all-time high of like 4.1 and
change trillion dollars. And a good chunk of that right now is made up from Ethereum. Over 571
billion is Ethereum. So I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to celebrate. I'm just wondering where
everyone else is, man. Yeah, no doubt. So wait, you're telling me your timeline is not overly bullish, but is not bullish because everyone on my timeline is ETH is going higher.
You guys are wrong.
It's so many Ethereum bulls, and maybe that's just the Twitter algorithm giving me what I want to hear.
I was about to say the same thing.
I was about to say the same thing.
Let me give you a little tip.
Let me give you a little tip.
I've probably blocked and muted half of the people that are parroting each other on your timeline because I am crucial when it comes to who I'm going to let in on my stuff, dude.
I just block and mute.
So if I got people that are just – if I see like the same story from eight or nine accounts, I really do – I'll pay attention to an account.
And then pretty quickly, I'm going to put it on mute if it's the same thing.
So no, my timeline is mentioning it.
Big accounts that are making conversation about it are there, but I don't like that hundred times scrolling past the same thing. So no, my timeline is mentioning it. Big accounts that are making conversation about it are there,
but I don't like that a hundred times scrolling past the same thing.
So it's interesting.
I'm watching fudgy news.
I'm watching stable coin news.
I watched Eric Trump take a dunk on Ashley.
He cans today, which I thought was delicious.
That was just other things on my timeline.
I try and keep a broad perspective.
Honestly, it's probably good for her.
Because even if you're going to get dunked on, you might as well get dunked on by the president's son.
Probably good for her. Yeah.
Probably good for her.
I was 50-50 on it.
Yeah.
It's cloud chasing 101.
I mean, any news is – any press is good press.
But at the same time, someone had to show it to me because, again, had her blocked.
Someone had to show it to me because, again, had her blocked.
Didn't know.
Didn't know.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But it was funny to me.
But it was funny to me.
Yeah, no, I didn't do a better job of maybe not muting but reducing the echo chamber on my timeline because I either have people, you know, doing victory laps because ETH has almost broken its dollar all-time high.
Remember, we're still at 3.6 million Satoshis.
So it still has a long way to go.
Or I'm hearing suits, suits that I had never heard from before who were championing Bitcoin.
And they're criticizing ETH, but they don't really understand what ETH does.
It's very clear to me that they don't.
So I guess I need to work harder on curating my timeline.
Kat, what's going on, brother?
How are you feeling about this?
Hey, buddy.
Thanks for having me.
So there's a lot of things that's happening
besides the upgrade that's coming in November for Ethereum.
I think Ethereum is going to be the backbone for DeFi
in the traditional finance sector.
And there's only 12% of Ethereum
left on exchanges right now. So we're going to go through a supply shock here within the next
couple of weeks, in my opinion. And then from there, it's sky's the limit. I don't really want
to give a price prediction on how high I think Ethereum is going to go. What I will say is that if you bought before the all-time
high, you're in the clear.
You're golden. And just hold for
a few years.
So, yeah, that's kind of my thoughts.
I've never sold any of
my Bitcoin or my ETH.
I'm a long-term holder as well.
Although this cycle, I think
who knows? We'll see.
You're going to be able to borrow against your crypto within banks.
So that's coming.
There's a lot of regulation that's going through right now.
I'll stick with Aave.
I'll stick with Aave, Kat.
I don't want to work out of banks.
I like permission.
I like to go on a DeFi protocol and permissionlessly
borrow. And I'm responsible for my own risk. And I don't have people asking me for my KYC and for
my this and my that and all these papers. I get that. Eventually my blood type. Let's get Ryan
in the mix. And then I really want to hear from David as well. Yeah. Hey, thanks Noah.
You know, I find it really fascinating. So, you know, ETH is pumping and we were all kind of like
sitting there twiddling our thumbs for a long time where, you know, Bitcoin's pumping and ETH is,
you know, falling, you know, flat compared to Bitcoin. And we all know with these cycles that
ETH follows a Bitcoin rally.
You know, normally it's within three or four months.
This time it was like six or seven months.
So I think we were all holding our breath.
So we're like, is it going to follow?
Is it going to follow?
And then typically after ETH pumps, then we have kind of our alt season.
And this is our typical cycle.
It just seems like the cycle's way delayed this time.
The only other thought I had at this point was I find it interesting that Circle
is talking about launching their layer one. And, you know, Coinbase has been very tied to Circle
with a lot of, you know, their staking rewards and, you know, bring USDC on the base. And
they'd really been pushing it with having an interest rate there. And now Circle's coming out and talking about launching their own layer one, which is going to kind of undermine base and undermine the entire Ethereum ecosystem.
So I just find it a lot of very interesting moving parts here.
And I really wonder, is Ethereum going to continue to be the center of the DeFi world with Circle trying to move on to their own chain.
Yeah, that's a good question, David. I'm curious to hear your thoughts because
if you have more big companies just launching their own private blockchains, they're super
fast, blazing fast EVM clones that have their private validators and they're centralized and
they can give the
consumer what they want, which is high speed, cheap transactions. Why would they then opt for
building on a layer two, which for my understanding can have the same impact? And I guess that's
one thing I'm scratching my head at, Ryan and David, is why would these companies just not
spin up their own layer two? Why have their own layer one?
Isn't that – they're kind of siloing themselves off in a way.
David, thoughts?
Oh, okay.
I thought you were going to wait for Ryan.
Look, that's not – I'd actually defer to Ryan.
That's not my area of expertise. I mean, I will say, you know, the decentralization point is important.
And I think to the extent that, you know, anyone builds a centralized, you know, blockchain, I just don't. I think it's going to be derided by users. And I think that other folks
that are building on a decentralized blockchain are going to point out the flaw and the risk
and the problem and the money issue, profitability, and so on that relates to anything centralized. So
even though it may make sense for purposes of keeping all the money, A, B, controlling,
you know, C, I don't know, being able to label it as yours, I think there's too much
in terms of momentum away from that. And yes, maybe for certain functionality,
it may be important and maybe
for very limited users that will use that blockchain. But if you're planning to go ahead
and make your blockchain ubiquitous, I think the general public at this point is totally
only interested in decentralized as opposed to centralized. But I'll kick to Ryan.
decentralized as opposed to centralized. But I'll kick to Ryan.
David, man, I really, I really wished you were right on that one. You know, if you look at how
many indexers there are of the base chain, you know, the defy and base trading volume is massive.
It's kind of like the cornerstone now of a lot of these DEXs. And they have, I believe,
it's just one indexer right now. Ethereum as a whole, like you look up the stats on how many
Ethereum full nodes there are that actually have all of the logs and everything, you know,
loaded. It's very few. When it comes to decentralization, a lot of the leading
chains and leading projects now are really struggling in that area. And it's looking
more and more like the public could really care less about decentralization. As long as there's
the label slapped on it somewhere. Bitcoin is still decentralized and probably the most
decentralized out of all the chains, but there's still centralization around the mining pools and the block creation uh ethereum
is still very decentralized but it's still very centralized around you know the the main uh
ethereum holders are still the huge contributors to the block creation like there's not a whole
lot of like you know one-off block creators here and there in Ethereum.
And then base is very centralized.
And I think USDC is looking at base thinking, oh, we could just do the same thing.
You know, Ripple is is killing it right now.
And they're very centralized. And that was kind of Ripple was the joke.
Right. For years and years and years, we were looking at Ripple going, oh, it's completely centralized. Why would anyone use that?
It looks like a lot of people want to use it.
So isn't that kind of inevitable, though, Ryan, when you consider the centralization
or rather the lack of decentralization when it comes to mining pools and block production
mining pools and block production for Bitcoin. Can't you just make the argument that any
for Bitcoin?
asset class that rises as quickly as Bitcoin and Ethereum have is not doomed, but it's bound to
have most of the supply, most of the power allocated amongst relatively few hands?
Yeah. I mean, this is the curse of proof of stake.
I know a lot of people have gotten into the discussion
of proof of stake versus proof of work through the years.
And proof of work has just kind of been
just honestly shit over and over again
as being like this energy hog
and terrible for the environment, yada, yada, yada.
Proof of stake has this risk, unfortunately, whereas if you hold the token, you control
the network.
And there's variations on it, like DPoS and that type of thing.
But the reality, Noah, and to answer your question more straightforward, it's an oscillation.
answer your question more straightforward, it's an oscillation. So over time, systems will oscillate
between centralized and decentralized. And there's typically a balance there where a centralized
system is incredibly optimized and typically less expensive, where a decentralized system
is more safe, not nearly as optimized, tends to be slower,
tends to be more expensive, right?
So we always seem to oscillate between decentralized and centralized,
where over time, decentralized systems become more centralized because it's more optimized and cheaper.
And then it becomes too centralized.
to centralize and people say, oh, we need to decentralize.
And people say, oh, we need to decentralize.
And then it goes slow and expensive again.
And then it goes slow and expensive again.
So I think we hit our peak of tokenize all the things,
decentralized all the things a couple of years ago.
And now we're oscillating back towards centralized optimization
of faster block times, more transaction throughput.
But, oh, we have a handful of super validators that essentially make this a federated network around two or three people.
So I think it's just a back and forth.
And I think where we're landing on right now, because we're kind of leaning more towards centralization and systems,
we're getting to this one indexer chain model where, you know, base to you know be an extension of coinbase with they
control the chain uh usdc was going to launch their chain and most likely they will control the chain
um so i i think uh they'll slap the decentralized logo on it and they're gonna have you know some
sense of decentralized governance but it's not the same uh it's not the same form factor as what we see with Bitcoin decentralization.
Decentralization is a spectrum.
Kat, I know you have a lot of thoughts on this.
Go for it, sir.
Yeah, so my thoughts is that the public retail, they don't give a shit about decentralization or privacy, and they never have.
That's a small minority of us.
And, yeah, man, like, it's pretty pathetic, to be honest, because people should care about the privacy and should care about decentralization and understand why decentralization is important.
But yeah, most people don't care, unfortunately.
And they only care whether the price goes up or price goes down.
That's it.
And that sucks.
But that's where we're at.
I don't know when that's going to change.
I don't know when we're going to shift to
caring about tech.
You have all these actual real
projects that are very low market cap
then you have all these JPEG
memes. I'm not saying every meme
is useless, but
most of them are.
Pengu is
an exception.
They're an actual IP.
I think a lot of these other memes are going to branch out
and create their own IPs
over the next couple years.
But mostly everything now is just,
it seems like everything's over-inflated in value.
And then the things that should have value don't so yeah that's my my
thoughts it pulls you you you waved there at me so curious to know if you have any thoughts on that
do i need to care about the tech i mean like if i buy stock in tesla i don't need i don't need to
keep up with the batteries that they're making and the shit that they're doing necessarily. So if I'm holding Ethereum and need to roll upgrades and stuff like that, I don't have to completely stay in.
And if I say I'm here for the long term and I'm here for the money at the same time, I don't have to care for the tech because I can invest in plenty of stuff that I don't necessarily.
I just look at it and said, hey, I think there's upward potential in that market.
I'm trying to diversify my assets.
I'd like to allocate a percentage of them towards something risky and emergent.
So I'm an Ethereum, but maybe I don't pay attention to the tech.
Does that make me a bad guy?
Am I the bad guy?
Yes, actually, yes.
No, no.
Honestly, Pulse, you're not the bad guy.
And the reality of it is most people are money maximalists and most people are here for the money.
I'm just going to be honest.
If you did a survey of everyone in crypto and everyone was honest, I think that you would find 80% to 90% and maybe it's even more than that are here because they – right?
and maybe it's even more than that, are here because they, right, so I personally came in
here for the money initially, because I heard about Bitcoin in 2017. And I heard about what
the tech does. I researched the tech. And so I was enticed by the tech, but I was even more enticed
by the fact that I could free myself from being a lower middle class person.
I didn't want to be in the income bracket that I was in. And I was trying to find ways,
either starting a company or getting into investing, of pulling myself out. And the tech
is what kept me here. But the opportunity to change my life and changing your life for better or worse in a capitalist system like this, it's based a lot on how much money you can accrue and how much time.
We live to, what, average 80 years, right?
We want to maximize our lives.
And so in order to do that, you do need money.
And I think that's what drives a lot of people.
IP Nerd, let's go.
Actually, Kat, if you wanted to respond,
I'll pass it to you and then I want to go to
IP nerd and say, Orion.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Real quick.
So, real quick, Orion.
I just wanted to respond to that and say,
what I'm saying is that
there's too many useless meme coins
out there now where
they have an overinflated value.
Everything's a pump and dump man and
that's not what we want for retail to come into this industry and see
everybody in retail is getting wrecked by these memes everybody there's been vcs that have been
wrecked by them so this kind of weird cycle that we went into with pump fun and all these other meme launch
pads man it's getting people more wrecked than it's making them money i only only a small amount
of people are making money on these i'll tell you what though internal like bullshit so we we all
agree on that cat i'll tell you what though it's tell you what, though. It's not going away.
It's not going away.
I don't think it's ever.
I don't think the crypto casino is ever going to go away
because it's not about crypto.
It's about human beings
and human beings desire to,
one, catch up.
A lot of people feel like
they've gotten left behind.
And secondly, just gamble.
I have friends that love gambling.
They don't really understand
blockchain and crypto.
Otherwise, they'd be on PumpFun
doing the exact same thing they're doing
at the casino here just south of Washington,
D.C.
Orion, what's going on, man?
I know you as IP nerd for so long,
so it's going to take me a little bit of time
to acclimate to the switch.
Did you just
rug? He just rugg just rug he just rugs he just dropped
buzz what's going on man what do you i know buzz you're a big
eath bull and you and i on mario spaces were you know we're talking about our
disappointment in the eath and you know why soul was doing so much better than
the better than the that ratio has improved, but how are you feeling right now?
I'm feeling good.
I mean, it's, it's hard not to feel good when ETH's approaching all time highs, right?
It's been a, a long time coming.
So I feel very great about that, but not, not specific to ETH, the one thing that I am sort of worried about is like the, I guess, bearish indicator of this cycle is this premium to NAV that these pubcos are receiving by purchasing Bitcoin, ETH, Solana, etc.
I think eventually you're not going to get that premium to NAV and then this trade could potentially unwind from that perspective.
And then this trade could potentially unwind from that perspective.
So I see that as something that I'm looking at pretty closely, just like what the temperature is in the public markets for companies that are adding crypto to their balance sheet.
It's obviously still pretty good.
But there's very little retail interest, right?
And I'm just looking at when's retail going to come.
And hopefully retail comes before that premium
to NAV trade unwinds, ultimately.
Yeah, I think if you, one of the things that I like to do, and I think a lot of folks on
crypto Twitter do as well, is look for Google search terms, so keywords that are searched
So keywords that are searched on Google.
on Google.
And I think ETH has spiked, altcoins have spiked.
Altcoins have spiked.
There are certain words that have spiked.
And I think that might be indicative of retail starting to pay attention.
Typically, retail starts to pay a lot of attention when things are frothy.
And so that makes me – I don't know what the future looks like.
But that just makes me think that we're not close to topping out yet.
I'm not saying we're far away from it.
I'm just saying that I think there's still room to go.
And I agree with you, Bart.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all that there's still room to go.
And I know, I mean, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you when the top is.
But I've definitely chosen to take some risk off the table in respect to ETH.
I haven't done that with Bitcoin.
But if you just kind of look at what the narrative was with ETH four or five months ago before
Tom Lee and things like that, the narrative was pretty bearish.
And we turned around very, very quickly.
And I've just known from being in crypto for a long time when narratives change that quickly,
they could always do it in the other direction too.
So I've just chosen to take some risk off the table in respect to ease. I don't think anyone blames you for that, Buzz.
will be that these companies, these treasury companies will have, if not fully, partly
resulted in whatever caused that big crash. At least that's what I think. I want to get to IP
nerd. Sorry, man, you dropped off for a second there. No worries. It's not your fault that we
had technical difficulties. So I have a couple of touch ups and a couple of points here. When it
came to the decentralization conversation, it seems like we have a lot of consensus.
I agree with most of what the cat said and everything that Ryan said.
When it comes to meme coins, I've really broken this down to one of the simplest analogies that almost anybody can get.
Meme coins are brand without a product.
Yet we already have that business model on Web 2.
Brand without a product is called advertising agencies have that business model on web to brand without a product
is called advertising agencies. And who do advertising agencies represent? Whoever gives
them money. And the reason why there will always be wreckage and meme coins is because advertising
campaigns are temporary. You know that they're hot takes. I'll give you an analogy. I like to
watch old football games. I've watched the majority of all the old Super Bowls. And I like to watch the old ones with the commercials from like the 70s
and 80s. And when you watch these old Super Bowls with these commercials, one of the things you
notice is most of the products that they're advertising, they're not in business anymore.
And so in other words, most of the people who paid those advertising agencies, they might've
made money in the short term, but there wasn't very much sustainable about the advertising because 20, 30 years later,
the company's not even around. And the meme coin buyers are basically the people paying those
advertising companies. So that cycle will not end, but at least if you're going to be in that
business model, kind of get what you're buying. Now, when it comes to ETH, I actually have usually
recommended take the money off the table. I think ETH has learned some things from the past with
its previous write-ups is you have all these L2s and that's really where the value is for the B2B
sector. If the L2s are more supportive of the mother chain, and when people
buy big into the mother chain, if they could somehow identify these people and basically
treat them a little better this time. In other words, the price of the utilities a little bit
for ETH, ETH will never have the store value proposition of Bitcoin for no other reason than the market cap
is somewhat divorced from the supply. However, they have the ability to give more utility
than Bitcoin. So a store value that is not as strong, but you get more utility,
that's something that can be durable when it comes to price appreciation.
when it comes to price appreciation.
Sorry, my unmute button was not working there.
Kat, do you want to respond?
Then I can give my thoughts.
Yeah.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I understand your metaphor there
about meme coins and advertising,
but the issue is that majority of these meme coins
are not there for the long haul they're
there for a quick pump and dump and then you have influencers um in the industry that are
shilling these and wrecking their communities that that's not sustainable for the long haul
if you want retail to come into this industry yeah Yeah, so when you say not sustainable, you're referring to the actual meme coin project,
which I agree. When you have unqualified people running advertising agencies, that's a recipe
for disaster. However, the meme coin model itself will not go away for the same reason
advertising agencies won't go away.
Well, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah i agree
with you on that point but the the the point that i wanted to make was that yeah there's
several advertising agents agencies right but with meme coins you have literally millions now
they're like it the the supply shock no that's not a supply shock.
It's more of a liquidity
siphoning where you have
liquidity going all over the place
and it's divided.
Then you have a further division
with L2s,
L0s, L3s.
I mean, the whole
thing is just
liquidity just being siloed to...
Yeah, meme coins is not a safe place to put your money.
I would never recommend one to my neighbor unless I had extreme inside information.
Now, there was another point that I didn't get to, but it's a quick one.
A lot of times when it comes to proof of work and proof of stake, we're always bringing up the environmental concerns. And part of this is going to be
fixed by Moore's law. In other words, proof of work is just going to get better at being
efficiency with energy. But the part that nobody talks about, and I'd like to get this conversation
started somehow somewhere, is nobody accounts for the energy and efficiency that
accrued in the proof of stake. In other words, whatever you're staking had some kind of toll
in the environment. So that should be added on to the toll of the proof of stake chain itself.
But without knowing how the stake was achieved or occurred, you have this fuzzy math where you're
comparing apples to oranges because you don't
know the true environmental cost of the proof of stake chain because you don't know how the
stake was achieved. Like what environment impacts occurred for the person to have the stake to
stake? But Orion, isn't it, isn't it proof of stake, isn't it minimal, minimal enough where
you can't really compare it to the energy consumption of proof of work.
I mean, one is so much bigger than the other.
Well, that's where I brought up the Moore's Law thing. And then also, too, a lot of people trust the proof of work more, which in other words, you can come with consensus with less transactions.
So that has some kind of value that I just don't know how to factor into the equation.
By the way, if there are any hands up, I can't see any hands right now.
But I want to touch on something that Buzz mentioned earlier.
And he said...
David has his hand up.
Oh, David, go for it.
I'm so sorry.
Yeah, I can't see any hands.
Very kind of you to give me a shout out.
I appreciate that.
I don't know how many of the people up on stage come from a traditional finance background. I do. I was a distressed trader, investor, hedge fund manager, and I'm now crypto fund manager for the last eight years. the largest shareholder of a digital asset treasury company listed in Canada.
Long story.
In any event, I come at this from that world.
With respect to meme coins, not my cup of tea.
It won't go there. But in terms of...
We're best friends, David, already.
Okay.
With respect to Ethereum, Bitcoin, certainly Solana, maybe some others, time will tell, but Wall Street is just getting rolling on these things. people say that there are either flaws or lack of volume or lack of uptick or alternatives and
things like that, that I've, I've learned from many years, um, that the best mousetrap isn't
the one that always wins. Uh, it's oftentimes the ones that it's the one that's pushed the hardest and the one that gains inertia the quickest. And so on Ethereum,
the things that are going on in the market that are important to me as it relates to Ethereum,
and the majority of what I own in my digital asset treasury company, which is called Centaurus Energy, is Ethereum.
And I've been a holder and a sad holder for a while.
Now certainly happy, not euphoric.
But look, the things that people are talking about in Wall Street land about ETH are two things.
First of all, the legislation, regulation, Trump family involvement
throughout the crypto sector, Genius Act, next to come Clarity Act, then to come actual stable
coin proliferation. We'll see how that all shakes out, who wins, do big banks muscle everybody else
out of the picture. Nevertheless, the large majority of, at least
at this point, stablecoin activity is on Ethereum. Whether that'll continue, I don't know.
The real world asset tokenization thing, again, how much money it brings in, in terms of cash flow, is one thing.
But in terms of exposure, and in terms of BlackRock saying that they will not launch a Solana ETF.
And therefore, doubling down on their Ethereum ETF and probably Ethereum real-world asset application, I think is important. And then when it comes to, you know, flows,
which is really important, I know, you know, people make fun of Tom Lee and the fact that
he wants to buy 5% of all of ETH. That's outstanding. I mean, the fact of the matter
is, is that he's going to raise that capital.
The fact of the matter is that there are going to be two and three and four and five copycats
of the same strategy. And that alone will continue to make things run. Oh, and by the way,
we're going to get rate cuts, which is going to go ahead and push investors, not the people in
this room, I'd say more traditional investors to reach and reach and reach for returns. That is
the government incentive by going ahead and lowering interest rates. And so over the next,
I don't know, let's call it 12 months, there'll be a lot of reasons for a lot of people to buy a lot of ETH. And for
that reason, for those reasons alone, I am bullish ETH for the next 12 months. How high will it go,
the title of the space? I really don't know. The gapping up is pretty serious, folks. I mean,
Mopping up is pretty serious, folks.
I mean, you know, people in crypto land are used to big gaps up and down.
But, you know, if you have this much firepower coming in behind this and you've got folks out there saying, I'm going to mop up a certain number of percent of all ETH outstanding, you're going to get a supply demand issue at a certain point.
And, you know, pricing could go parabolic for all we know.
Yeah, I actually agree with a lot of that.
One of the things that really helped ETH more than ever is this recent legislation.
I don't feel like any chain benefited more than ETH.
And then the SEC saying that certain type of liquid staking could be legal.
And then the SEC saying that certain type of liquid staking could be legal.
And most of the most profitable protocols and projects on ETH are liquid staking protocols.
And to have that green light that traditional finance can put money into these verticals,
knowing that they have a path to regulation and a little bit of coverage because of these
recent passages of law.
This is the first time ever I've ever been green light and ETH at a high price.
And that hasn't happened since it's hit, you know, 4,000 the first time on the way up.
And this time in the past when ETH went up, I said, you know, they've got some issues
as far as scaling, you know, the unit price.
But right now, this is the first time
that they have more clear highway than they've ever had before at a high price point.
Yeah, Dave, Dave highlighted it better than I could, Buzz. I, you know, you were,
you were questioning and fair enough, why, you know, it's a quick, it's been a quick flip,
right? A few months ago, we were talking about ETH and how it's losing steam against Bitcoin
and how, you know, is it ever going to get back to that all-time high?
All these discussions, L2s are parasitic, liquidity is siloed.
And I think with the Genius Act passing, I think with Tom Lee championing ETH to TradFi,
I think with all the points that
David made. And I think the fact that different companies can now launch stablecoins, right? They
can churn up their own stablecoins and they could have their own L2s. L2s might take most of the
revenue profit for themselves, but there is still post-transaction
data and proofs to Ethereum L1.
And so, sure, you could say that they're parasitic, but after a while, if this comes
to fruition, there will be so many companies with their own L2s and their own ecosystems
and their own users that even if a fraction of that is,
even if a small fraction of that is posted back onto the layer one, it's still going
to be significant enough with AIP 1559 to make ETH a deflationary asset.
I'm not comparing it to Bitcoin.
I'm not saying that ETH is the store of value.
I'm not really in that camp.
I own both.
And I'm just, I'm kind of happy to see the dots connecting for ETH.
And I do, so one thing I've learned, and I've made this mistake in the past, is when enough information changes, I need to throw everything else, mostly everything else that I had, most of everything else that I thought in regard to an asset out
the window. And that's why something I wouldn't traditionally do, just like Orion said, he
hasn't had this feeling towards ETH, he hasn't had this thesis towards ETH ever. One thing that
I've been doing is I've actually been buying more and more ETH from 3,300 all the way up.
Sorry, from 2,800 all the way up.
And that's just because I think that the tailwinds are so strong.
And I think that for the reasons that were highlighted by David and by Orion, I just, you know, I could be wrong.
Not financial advice or anything like that but i'm
putting my money where my mouth is and i think that eath has more room to grow from here because
of everything that's happening there's a lot a lot going on that wasn't going on even a few months
ago cat cat yeah i had to unmute it took me a second um so yeah no i couldn't agree more with david
uh things are only just getting started um actually i am in the camp of throwing away
the four-year cycle because originally when gold and silver went onto the market speaking
traditional markets um it was a four-year cycle too before
the etfs so after the etfs is when gold and silver stopped doing that um four-year cycle
um so i everything's kind of happening here for crypto um i'm very bullish for the the long-term
future and uh ethereum's only just getting started, in my opinion.
Ryan.
Yeah, I mean, I'll put it.
This is how bullish I am on ETH as a concept.
You know, we talk about store value,
but they're actually the closest to be a value store. And this is something I think we're about 10 years away.
So don't go running around saying this is going to happen anytime soon.
I think Ethereum is most likely to have physical locations, almost like a Home Depot.
You got Polygon on aisle one.
You got Avalanche on aisle two.
Moreno on aisle three.
And even build your own, like build your own kitchen.
In other words, they have a chain for practically any business application if you have the use case.
However, they need a lot of market adoption to get there.
Like one of the reasons why Solana did so well in comparison to ETH as far as multiples is Solana has one vertical, which is the most important vertical to ETH, which is cheap and fast.
So they ran up on it because those use cases can be used right now
in the Sky Casino and the DApps. However, as companies get more digitally automated,
because they want basically their supply chain to be automated and they want their supply chain to
be interactive with other companies' supply chains to also be automated. When the infrastructure
happens for that to occur, ETH is going to have a major advantage because of all the L2s.
They just got to get the relationship right with the L1. In other words, if somebody owns a lot of
ETH, you maybe get primary access to relationships with the L2s. So that way, they're not vampiring
attacking each other. All right. I'm getting too bullish.
Pulse, give me a dose of reality. Why do I know that I fill that void for so many people?
If I'm listening to 45 minutes of all of this by now, and it sounds like everybody's consensus is
we're still bullish on ETH at an all time high. Are we buying ETH here? I got to ask because
Michael Saylor posts these charts with the little orange dots
when Bitcoin hits all-time high
and everybody runs to Bitcoin Daddy and says,
oh God, thank you for buying.
You continue to give me the conviction
to do the same thing.
And I don't know how many people
buy the Bitcoin charts the way he does.
So are we sincerely looking at retail investors coming in?
How do we do this again, folks?
And show them all-time high on charts
with Bitcoin, Ethereum, BNB, these other projects and say, hey, listen, I know this is all-time high right now,
but check it out. You got to ape in because it's only upward momentum from here. Are we all that
bullish? Are we leaving here and throwing down? Are we putting our money where our mouth is today?
The way I'm thinking about it is that in... So in 2017, I remember Bitcoin – I bought my first bit of Bitcoin in September of 2017.
And my plan was to DCAN, right?
I just learned about – I didn't know anything about investing.
I was just learning about dollar cost averaging.
learning about dollar cost averaging. And September, October, there was a point between
I would say 5 to 12K Bitcoin where I just wasn't buying because I was saying, oh my God,
it's at all time high. Oh my God, it's at all time high. And what I didn't recognize,
because at the time I was a newbie, I didn't recognize that the narrative had shifted.
And this was, people were starting to wake up to what
this thing was. Obviously it crashed back down to 3200 in December of 2018. But I kind of see,
I kind of see the same thing happening with ETH where the thesis has shifted. And as David said, there are a lot of – there's a lot of new money eyeing ETH.
And I hate buying things at all-time highs.
But I will say my last ETH purchase, it might have been at $4,200.
And so I'm breaking my own rule because – and I got to be careful about my timeline pulse.
But I'm still – I'm trying to still dig in and verify what I'm reading.
But I'm just seeing the thesis and the perception around ETH change.
And when new people coming in with that shifted perception, right, this is going to
be the backbone of DeFi and it's the most decentralized and you can stake it and you can
earn yield. And you've got these layer twos, which are like little companies built on top of it. And
they post their call data back onto ETH. There's like so, or transaction data and proofs back onto
ETH. And there's so many things that have shifted in my eyes and buzzes, right.
It could just shift back for whatever reason that I, um,
I just think the rocket is loading up. I don't,
I don't know where the top is, but this doesn't feel like the top to me.
Hey, I'm not saying I'm not just trying to flood everybody out of their bag
so I can buy lower. I could be up to evil nefarious who knows man uh ultimately though i think i think buzz has the
right idea um if people you know if you're sitting on big profits or if you just you're not comfortable
you can't sleep at night then nothing wrong with cashing out or rotating some into bitcoin if you
want um that's probably what i would do personally is I think if I get to a point where I'm thinking, okay, well, this is kind of crazy. I might just rotate some into Bitcoin and figure
out what the obligation for that is. But until then, I'm just, I'm sitting tight on what I have.
Kat, you have your hand up? Or am I just seeing phantom hands? guys this has been a good no i'm i'm bugged okay okay uh
ryan i was any sobering as a listener any sobering thoughts ryan before i close things out i mean
this is a quick space but it's just all-time high for eat is imminent and it's any has anything
so anything that david said or anyone else said on the panel, Ryan, change your mind or at least make you think that ETH might go higher than you originally anticipated?
Are you saying O-Ryan or Ryan?
Oh, sorry.
I was saying Ryan.
Ryan Condren.
Oh, got it.
Okay.
Man, I hear people all over the place with different targets for eth you know everything
from like 7 000 to 10 000 and you know even even beyond but you know they're the same people that
are saying like bitcoin at 500 000 to a million by the end of the year um i i just don't see that
type of capital inflow and and i say this like hoping I'm wrong, right? Because we're,
we're kind of all in the same ship here. So, you know, I don't want to be like the,
the naysayer on any of this stuff. Cause I obviously hope that I'm wrong, but I just,
I'm not that bullish to go all the way to like 10,000. Now, could we have some huge upswings
with like the ETF buy-ins and like more treasury companies coming
on board like absolutely i think we could you know obviously hit five six you know maybe scrape
seven um but i just think there's so much competition coming into the evm sector for
all these defy products and i think more and more we're going to see these chains positioning themselves as like the center DEXs for all these different casinos.
You know, Solana, the only reason it's still alive is because of all these meme coins.
You know, they showed themselves to not be a good project when they paused their chain a couple years ago and their price plummeted down to like $12.
So like they've shown that, you know,
that they can do stuff like that.
And then, you know, Ethereum forked from Ethereum Classic
and they plummeted in price
because everyone's like, wait a minute,
this isn't as decentralized as we thought it was.
So yeah, I mean,
I just think there's going to be a lot more competition
for Ethereum than there is for Bitcoin
simply because Bitcoin does have the mining infrastructure and they have a lot of publicly traded companies
that have built their entire business model on providing energy to the Bitcoin network. So I
think Ethereum has a long way to go and a lot of competition to overcome in order to maintain
dominance in the DeFi world. Brilliant. Love the sobering takes.
Guys, thank you so much for joining.
We'll be here next week again at 4 p.m. Eastern Time, 8 p.m. UTC.
And I hope Ryan, like Ryan said it, we all hope Ryan's wrong, but I'm also in the same
camp.
A million dollar Bitcoin seems a bit ridiculous for this cycle. But in crypto, I've seen crazier things.
So I'll leave you with that.
Take care.
Be safe out there.
We'll see you soon.
