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Eth sucks
Recorded: Dec. 2, 2023 Duration: 3:08:13Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hey guys, sorry about the delay there.
Appreciate everybody for hopping in.
I was just grabbing my tea.
Hugo, come here.
Come here.
Hopefully everybody had a good day.
Appreciate you all for hopping in the space.
It is Friday night.
Here we are.
I was up in the rest of the day.
Go ahead.
support the space and yeah let's get into it start off with a little bit of a market update
okay so Bitcoin actually up 1.8 percent one of the only winners of the day in terms of the big
cap coins up to 38,786 ethereum no movement 0.01 percent down so almost virtually no movement over
the past 24 hours two thousand and ninety three dollars so almost breaking through that twenty
one hundred dollar barrier bnb sitting at 229 as well solana up 0.3 percent 61 bucks cardano 1.5
percent and a similar movement across the board polygon actually doing pretty well over the past
day four percent up to 80 cents so it's holding polygon still i have a little bit of matic
a little bit of matic still i will go over to coinbase look at these nfts quickly let's see
all right so the surprising thing for today has been moonbirds moonbirds have just been doing a
ton of volume they did 1171 eth not entirely surprising though just because they did just
get added to to the blend protocol uh with blur so that's probably contributing to most of that
but they're at 2.3 eth right now again doing almost 1200 eth in volume over the past day
d god sitting at 3.4 pudgies pudgies in every conversation currently 7.9 eth for crazy crazy
crazy feels like they're just going up every day and the sky's the limit little pudgies as well
almost an eth 0.8 apiece and then some new collection i don't know what this is i don't own
any i'm just seeing it now buterin cards butrin cards uh which are basically vitalic trading cards
um they're inspired by the iconic nakamoto i don't know what this is this doesn't seem like an
official
official metallic thing so i would definitely take caution with uh with any of this stuff
um what else creeps creeps retracing a little bit here uh down to 2.6 eth so they were at like
what 2.9 a few days ago it actually makes sense to go down just a little bit we'll go over to magic
eden as well let's see what's going on there
let's see
all right so mad lads retracing a little bit they hit close to 200 soul
and uh somebody did mention to me that they probably would retrace a little bit after their
one-of-one raffle so i don't know if anybody saw this last night but they had a one-of-one raffle
that they were doing um so that retrace down to 168 uh tensorians at 54 the quex at 37
klano is also pulling back just a little bit 44 soul and ok bears at 28
so it looks like across the board we've seen a little bit of pullback which makes sense
because we basically had two three weeks of up only so uh yeah not not super surprising there
we also have no request you have my first get your asses up on stage i'm trying to hear some takes
trying to hear how y'all are doing what you're buying what you're bullish on what you're bearish on
and most importantly some hot takes because we definitely definitely definitely need those
um let's see
there we go hey i'm just doing a mic check are you able to hear me it says that i'm a speaker i can hear
oh okay okay yeah i thought i thought it was uh on your end you weren't able to you weren't able to
see me as speaker but i actually do have a few hot takes brother you can definitely start a spicy
conversation all right give me the hot takes what's up my hot take is that solana might do the same
thing that x repeated to ethereum in late 2017 where it basically flipped um in market cap so
the reason why i say that is because the entire year basically like any new money that's that's
been coming in and any new narrative that started um that went across the broader crypto market has
started on solana right we first had bonk um and that created the whole mean point craze with pepe and
all that stuff and then we had uh some evm stuff happen on seoul and then the nft stuff don't even get
me started um a lot of our guys uh got some tensorians like pretty much like right when they
came at market um same thing with cleanosaurs and a few other things as well that i won't really
mention here and i kind of feel that like solana right now is basically what the ethereum ecosystem was
um in like late 2019 early 2020 where like there was a lot of tvl coming in and people were like
oh d5 is never going to be a thing nfts aren't going to be a thing that just happened you know
for a couple of weeks with uh crypto kitties and all that kind of stuff and i feel that like
solana is going to be the people's chain and to be honest like ethereum is still going to have
that problem where it has um an insane amount of gas fees in a bull market and if we're being
honest leap going on ethereum is basically like going to a restaurant and right after you know
you're about to pay and all that stuff they slap you with a mandatory 25 gratuity right because if
we're honest here most new market participants they're probably only going to come in with like
one two maybe three k tops and in a bull market you know if you ape something with two to three k on
ethereum you're going to be wasting like 15 of that 20 of that because i remember you are not
waiting no no no you are not wasting 15 to 20 of a three k on what i mean the gas fees brother when
eth was pushing 5k were like 500 600 bucks it was quite astronomical man i i remember that very clearly
no i remember that i remember that too trust me i i i've spent 400 to mint something that costed 20
so i i'm i'm there with you that being said it's a different eth we are an eth 2.0 we are proof of
stake now now obviously that did not remove gas fees entirely but i think another part of this is that
it completely depends if you believe in the l2 narrative so that's the question for you do you
believe in the l2 narrative i i i do i do but the thing is like with l with l2s right now like only
those that are really technically slap savvy are going to know how to bridge and things like that
right most people right i'm talking new market participants they're only going to have a metamask
and a coinbase account right and like for most people right they already know what nfts are right
like i think everybody that experienced you know gamestop and all that stuff you've heard about it
like they know about nfts they know about gamefly and all that stuff and i feel like l1s are probably
going to be that ecosystem that benefit from like you know nfts going to half a trillion in market cap
right if you take a look at the nft and also like gaming market cap like we're not even at like 100 bill
um valuation right like not even close right and i feel that like you know if we're at least
going to double right and broader crypto market cap so that would take us to about six trillion
i think at least 10 of that like 10 to 15 of that is going to be comprised of nfts and gaming right and
we've seen that over the last couple of weeks thrive with names like you know parallel pudgy penguins is
going absolutely parabolic and you know some things on solana are also thriving pretty hard and
i just think that like you know ethereum has already had um its time under the sun um and yeah like i
think eth will go to like 8k 10k but the people that are going to be using ethereum are mostly going
to be people like me and you right like the most part we already have the money that we're going to use
um within the system we're not really going to add in fiat that we use should we hit land like a sick
gig with a cool job and all that stuff like for the most part you know if you've been solvent since
the top like the money that you have in crypto you're going to stick with that and you're just
going to keep on multiplying it whether as you know some other people you know they're going to be
dollar cost averaging and all that stuff and i feel that like in a bull market where every single
transaction is going to cost you a couple hundred bucks it's not really going to appeal to like
you know your everyday user and that's why i also think ordinals might actually um be pretty damn
massive uh in my opinion when it comes to retail and hopefully like there are some better platforms
to facilitate onboarding onto ordinals when it comes to okay let me just say okay so first of all
ordinals and i like them too so don't get me wrong but they're even more obfuscated than anything
else they're hard in my opinion it's harder to get involved in that ecosystem than anywhere else
if you want to talk about regular people bro your average mint on ordinals like these it's like oh
0.0 you know 0.05 bitcoin that's a lot of money like ordinals are really expensive and any of the
projects you want to get involved in are fucking ridiculous it's like like i love ombs but they're
like twenty thousand dollars like they're more expensive than than almost anything else in the space
and ordinals just across the board are pricey because the denomination of bitcoin like that's
just one bitcoin is obviously worth a lot more than one eth which is a lot more worth more than than
one solana so i don't think ordinals are going to be at least anytime soon this like mainstream so i
think it's going to be super high-end luxury limited items with very exclusive communities and things of
that and maybe very high-end art as well that to me seems like a great use case for ordinals because
that's where you would want like any item you have like that you're going to want to put it on the
longest running decentralized and mutable blockchain like i'm totally down for that argument now in in
terms of the l2 stuff i think you've got to give participants a lot more credit i want to tell you
this i am not the most technical person i'm a i went to school for classical piano i majored in classical
piano university i am not some like ultra technical person and like my experience with computers
basically comes from playing mmos runescape world of warcraft so i think you got to give people a lot
more credit i remember when i first onboarded into defy in early 2021 january 2021 and i was you know
how i got onboarded is somebody on facebook some fucking person from my small town who went to my
high school dm me was like hey like i see that you post about bitcoin have you heard of shiba in you
and i'm like what and i had bought eth and sold eth a couple times on robin hood but knew nothing
about defy or smart contracts or anything and i go into the he adds me to this facebook group for
shiba in you and it's like all these people from like i kid you not i mean this so respectfully
like third world countries like people like and these are like random like moms and dads and like
all these people they don't have any technical background and they still figured out how to
download metamask and onboard some eth into it like i think people need to give users a lot more
credit and i don't buy this argument that the tech is so difficult to use and and nobody's gonna know
how to bridge and like i don't buy that at all because like realistically if you want to use an app
on an l2 you probably can just buy their native fucking token on coinbase and then just send it to
the wallet or something like it's we're talking two steps here like yeah if you have some eth like
already in a metamask wallet and you have to go bridge somewhere and then do all this stuff of
course there's a few more steps involved but i just think that is going to get a lot more simple
and one of the number one issues besides maybe solving the single sequencer issues with l2s that
people are facing is they're facing the ui stuff the ux stuff and trying to make it easier for users
to use so i just like don't buy this argument that people use that it's just so complicated that users
are not going to be able to use it that is that is ridiculous people were using lime wire and downloading
music elite like dude people since the beginning of time with the internet have been doing things
that are not the most straightforward and they figure it out if they want to you want to know
the problem it's not friction it's the fact that there are no applications that people want to use
because i promise you if there are applications that people genuinely want to use in crypto they
will figure out how to do it like humans are really fucking crafty so that that i don't buy but i'm
i'm down to agree to disagree there because i know a lot of people don't agree with that
and and the second thing is maybe soul flips eth maybe now totally it's interesting you bring this
up totally tweeted out today in a comment where somebody had said something similar like soul could
flip eth in this cycle and you know what he wrote he wrote solana does not deserve it yet
so like he said yes he pulled off of italic in uh in january 2018 if you remember like right at the
tippy top metallic put out a tweet and it said you know ethereum is now trading at over 1000 bitcoin
is closing upon 20 000 dan's total crypto market cap is near a trillion um and you know things are
going pretty pretty good right if you're in the if you're in the space but have we really deserved
it and that marked the absolute top so it's totally marking the absolute top right now solana then is
that what you're saying well not not exactly and then you know part of the reason why i wanted to
bring up like the whole l2 uh discussion and all that stuff is because like when it comes to like say
like the nfts and all that stuff and even some newer projects right like solana has brought in
like more fresher volume since the bottom um than ethereum right and like as a matter of fact like
the dex volume on solana has surpassed um like the 2020 2021 and even people are farming the jupiter
they're farming the jupiter airdrop like it's not a coincidence that solana dex volume has just gone
crazy since jupiter announced their airdrop like let's see let's see what happens after now i don't
disagree i think solana defy can be really really great um but like you know i mean like right now
people are farming like that is that is the meta like how much of this is wash trading how much of
it is legit and you could say the same thing about eth by the way right like we don't we don't know how
much is wash traded on on eth and people just swapping back and forth or arbing or whatever the hell
um but you said that solana has brought in a lot more fresher volume that's to me i think one of
the biggest reasons it's just and also people are getting excited solana has dude i remember going
to dinner with somebody in la maybe six months ago and i won't say their name but it's somebody that you
guys all know and you know what they told me i was asking them like what should i buy like what do
you think and this is like a really successful trader and they said dude and this is like an eth maxi
too they're like dude solana is the like solana is gonna rip like it doesn't matter whether you
believe in the tech or not like the narrative is so strong right now and not only that the upside
potential is significantly like it's just simply that the upside potential because it was so cheap
it was much greater than eth like even eth at one thousand dollars where it was like earlier this year
one thousand dollars it's a four x to all-time high solana at all-time lows with eight dollars
with a fucking like a 30 x to all-time high you know what i mean like it is it's a huge difference
in the perception in the way that people look at it right it's like um it's like when people wanted
to buy like when the the normies wanted to buy doge over bitcoin because the denomination of doge is
like 0.000 like it looks so much cheaper right so that has a a big part of it now that being said
solana is crushing it fire dancer all these different things that they're doing the community
strong like there's there's nothing you could say bad about solana in that right and i hold a ton of
solana like i i think it's going to go up too but i don't think that solana is going to flip eth in
terms of market cap during this cycle now next cycle who knows dude we could the next cycle after
that could be a decade away right but i just think etf coming for eth etf not coming for solana and i think
the etf is a huge huge part of this um and even the etf for bitcoin like who knows how that could
move it right so it might cause a trend if we think about it because it could start off with btc and
then it could go to eth and then it can go to like solana um probably comprised of like other assets so
like with traditional equities right you have like the nasdaq etf s&p 500 and the russell and i sort of feel
like this upcoming cycle is going to create those batches but things outside of the btc spot etf might
begin to mark the top right so once you see like spot etfs for uh eth and solana and then you have
like you know a crypto version of uh the arc etf right where it's like uh like maybe five to ten names
of different cryptos right mixture proof of work and proof of stake assets um and those get released
onto the market i think once you start seeing that it's like that would pretty much be your version
of el salvador buying bitcoin last cycle where it's like all right cool you have like nations
buying bitcoin and i think the next step of that uh basically start to mark the top when this begins
is probably going to be off of the etf narrative but it's not just bitcoin right let's let's let's be
very clear here right you take a look at like ethereum infrastructure with the uh enterprise ethereum
alliance jp morgan has a seat at the table right a lot of these like infra products are backed by like
you know traditional vc guys right like joseph lubin is behind consensus which is basically like
the infra for eth right so it's not as like quote unquote decentralized as it is and i sort of feel
like at the top of the next bull market right whether it's in 2025 or 2026 people are going to
have a massive massive wake-up call um but for those who you know are getting in early right if you
are getting in now for getting if you're getting in next year you'll be able to benefit through the
volatility right so um in my mind like moving forward i have a say and it goes by survive until
25 like don't blow up before like super easy mode right i i agree i think you should stay like like
that's really the thing here with crypto is that just stay liquid you'll probably win as long as you
stay liquid over a long period of time the exactly what you just said is people they they blow up they
they they lose their bankroll they make stupid plays and then they have to sit out and then they
miss easy games so i agree i agree with that um but i do think that the i don't know like more and
more i've started to buy into the l2 narrative because like i don't know it's like it just makes
sense to me um now it's not perfect in any way and it's going to take years and years and years for
the road map to be completed and for us to get to full like real real sharding in the way that they
want it to be but i don't know and i also don't think that solana competes with eat like that i
know it's like that is the narrative especially i mean as a spaces host we push it all the time
just for for content and for fun but solana and eat can do two very separate things in two very
different ways and they can have their own use cases and i think that they can both be successful
um but i i still think the upside on solana is probably much higher than eat in this next cycle i
mean the math is the math you know what i mean like eth is two thousand dollars right now to go
to all-time highs is a 2x man it's a 2x yeah and this is the last thing that i'll say and i'll put
myself on you because i know like people have their hand up but when you look at something like
solana um i think people are making this people are making a mistake by referencing it as a dino coin
right like oh solana already had its cycle where it goes with 500x right and it did right it went
500x solana went from 50 cents to like 270 and some change right that's a clean 500x and some change
but the thing is like 90 of that run was because ftx and alameda were selling customer funds
to prop up the solana price right and now all right hold on hold on hold on wait i'm not saying
that didn't happen but like what do you have to like where's the proof the four cases like it's it's
but did they but did they say that specifically if they did look if they did they did i i don't know
they said specific they said specifically that they're selling customer funds to prop up the
price of solana is that you're talking they specifically wrote that yeah like during the
last bull market not now i'm not talking now i'm talking like 2020 2021 um like they were selling
btc and eth to prop up their assets and um pretty sure everybody knows that ftx and alameda's babies
were ftt and solana right sam beckman freed created a few pet projects on solana as everybody knows
right no of course okay you gotta send me the info where it says that they specifically were
selling customer funds to prop up the price of solana and i don't doubt it for any second there's
some they are some sheisty mfers specifically btc and eat specifically bitcoin um and and uh ethereum
but um all right well let's not act like look let's not act like binance and coinbase haven't
done some sheisty stuff in this in the same time to like pump up eth and bitcoin like what you know
i mean like what was happening in those early days of bitcoin like seriously well you know what i mean
for it to run from where it did to where it went especially early days with with no real adoption and
anything like that like what was what was going on back then with like all these different marketplaces
and these exchanges that were that basically all went bankrupt and stole all their users money like
that's the thing you could easily look at ftx and i'm not defending what they did at all they're a
bunch of fucking bastards but you can look at ftx and say like they propped up solana and like
solana would not be where it is without ftx like all this stuff and maybe there's some truth to that
of course like they were definitely propping up that ecosystem but it's like you could say the same
thing about bitcoin in its early days what about like all of those early bitcoin exchanges that rubbed for
hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars like where is that money what were they doing to the price of
bitcoin and that isn't used as a negative narrative against bitcoin so i just don't think it's
totally fair to use the same thing against solana so so so where i was getting at though where i was
getting at is you know now that ftx and this was like my thesis on getting stole when it went to
single digits like after those people got exiled out of the market i thought of solana as a fresh chart
with a fresh narrative and a fresh start overall right so i don't really view solana as like you
know the same asset that it was in 2020 and 2021 it's not like yeah yeah yeah and that's why i think
like it'll exceed a lot of uh expectations for those individuals that are bullish on sol like i actually
think people aren't bullish enough uh on solana higher yeah yeah i get from all your brother but
uh yeah we'll get to that now go ahead brother i'll put myself on and then you were definitely
i appreciate you because you definitely said you had a hot take and you had a hot take so thank you
um and look i'm bullish on solana too i think it's going to do really well and i think some of the i
think some of the concerns on solana are definitely valid just like some of the concerns on eth and
bitcoin it's all valid none of this shit is perfect let's be honest like we have a long way to go
before this stuff is even close to to usable for the for the mainstream audience but um
look we'll go to some of these hands here we got an ordinal mf here alpha dude talk to me what's
going on what do you think about this take all right yeah so in regards to like does eth suck
uh essentially it does suck in regards to like usability and but does eth belong it does um it's it's
such a big market cap and ecosystem that has so much liquidity that every like the consumer wants
eth and has eth and has been storing eth and then in regards to solana flipping eth that's like a 6x
from now um i don't think that's feasible in this market but in in the current market it we're like
gonna deal with an anomaly coming in in which is a spot bitcoin etf um which so much liquidity is gonna
be in unlike the crypto ecosystem that anything is fucking possible in regards to like the altcoins
ecosystem like a future ethereum etf is gonna bring like money from like uh like future contracts
people that are gonna be like uh doing longs and shorts on eth um but uh bitcoin etf is gonna bring
so much more liquidity into the ecosystem and who knows where that profit taking goes after that and
and can that do like the the like like project uh solana over ethereum that would be crazy uh
because it would need a 6x now to do that so like solana would have to 40x it would be like solana at
2000 uh solana a coin right like and then and that would just be ethereum at 8k um so that would be
that would be pretty nuts that's kind of my take and then in regards to ordnance dude i think there's
gonna be like 10 collections that are gonna be like pretty high market cap collections there's
gonna be one that's gonna be tradable like bitcoin frogs like there's just super degen got into it
goose or nose uh like ombs you're gonna have like your og collections um but yeah the ecosystem is
gonna 40x uh easily dude do you know how rich toli and raj are gonna be when fuck if solana goes to
two thousand dollars they're gonna be so they legitimately be some of the richest people on
the planet they might be the richest people on the planet at that point like what would their
i mean their net worth would be essentially like a hundred billion a piece
yeah it would be insane it would be like it like i and i i swear to god that would be mind-blowing
and like it would it would do like all these like small market cap things inside solana ecosystem
would just boom like and so like that means if solana freaking 40x's that would be nuts that
means like all the little small little things inside solana would exponentially grow by that 40x
dude mad lads would have a million dollar floor like they would literally cost a million dollars
to buy a fucking mad lab and the thing is after watching the last bull market and apes were literally
a six hundred thousand dollar floor nothing is out of the honestly nothing's out of the question
anytime somebody says oh it can't go that high i'm like dude this is your first day in crypto
this shit does not the logic has nothing to do with this like if you look at everything like
logically oh this is not worth being a hundred bill market cap on this chain bro doge was like a
hundred bill market cap what the hell is doge 80 of doge's supplies owned by like 20 wallets
we want to talk about decentralization now they have doge inscriptions but um but that's like this
same saying like ethereum could go so much higher like right i'm like keeping it on like 8k ethereum
like like high side like let's say the money does flow into ethereum that's like a 15k ethereum and
then solana would kind of just racially stay the same at like the 6x away from ethereum all right so
let's do some comparisons and i know we got some hands here we'll go to the hands um let's see
apple market cap it's like a one two like 1.2 trillion or two trillion around there something
2.97 trillion three trillion dollars on on apple um in retrospect the entire the entire market cap of
all crypto is 1.4 trillion bro do you guys understand how much higher we have to go like we we're not even
like we haven't even touched a like a corner of a pinky toe of like no one can fathom how much higher
i did that i did the math today actually leap earlier because i did a thread on it in order
for us to get a 15 000 prize on ethereum um it would be a 1.8 trillion dollar number
for all of crypto no no that is just for ethereum
dude why do i i see that as possible and not only one thinks i don't think that's crazy like
no bro look at the smp look at the smp but that would that would mean though that everybody is in
i know you mentioned doge earlier i mean the whole world was buying doge right and you had elon
spearheading it um even though i love ethereum i have a lot of a big bag of ethereum i'm i really
think i'm actually removing some of my ethereum and i'm converting it to solana even though i have
solana the the guy who was there last night um i think teddy bitcoins you know he's pretty cold when
he was like solana's not gonna be around in 10 years well he's he's probably gonna be right but in
the near term i'm extremely bullish um because i did the numbers on that too and we're looking at
seven to eight times you know at a 300 billion dollar market cap so um i'm really bullish on
solana and i think for crypto tourists who are going to be coming in and learning the system they're
going to like that it's really cheap um because i think it's kind of shocking a little bit it's like
oh my god why should i pay 10 15 on a gas transaction when i can go to 10 15 is lucky i know i know i'm just
throwing that out arbitrarily but by the way i appreciate you did the numbers that's really dope like i
really appreciate that that's super cool yeah humane hands hands humane go ahead meadows oh no no i
i don't i don't know what somebody said sorry i went out for a second but like for me um it's just
like for us to do the numbers that's one thing i just never did in the past so i do take about 20 30
minutes and i just start calculating and it's like i think in my thread today somebody was like
oh 28 000 or 25 000 solana i mean um ethereum 20 000 15 000 ethereum the numbers don't make sense it
means other money from other places from bitcoin would be rushing into um ethereum so anyway
well i'll say this umfers are missing the the most obvious play here why is nobody bullish on cardano
cardano is sitting at a 13 billion mark so look here cardano is 38 cents do you realize if it went to
the price of bitcoin everybody in this room would be a trillionaire i think we're missing the point
here um 10 cardano they think it's going to go to 10 i've heard people say or the idiots that say
100 xrp like i hope it happens like i hope we're lucky to get four or five dollars on xrp in a bullish
scenario cardano all-time high two dollars and 96 cents current price 38 cents need i say more i don't
know what else is that bullish or i don't even know if it's bullish or bearish now here's a question
for everybody because we're a bunch of fucking idiots when it comes to a lot of this stuff
who is bullish on solana because of the tech and explain to me in great great detail why you're
bullish on solana because of the like real extreme detail don't tell me because it's going
to go with 10x tell me exactly why you're bullish on solana in like the most pop like write me a
i'll do it simple i'll do it like almost five words scalability usability yeah that's all i need
that's all i need no that is not i will i'll tell you let me
you am after do you know what the word hand okay go this better be the most detailed details i've
ever heard in my entire life okay because i've spent last two to three years researching okay so
we're going to go way we're going to go back to we're going to go back to like thinking that okay
well one we are a very young industry so we have to remember that we're a very young industry when
you look at okay i'm going to use this as an example um you're telling me no no no tell me i we're a very
young industry tell me why the tech because i'm bullish on solana too and sometimes i don't even
know why the fuck i'm bullish on it tell me why because of the tech teach me why because of the tech
that you're bullish okay because the tech okay um well i guess we can start in this way where
one the tech works in a way where okay for example with ethereum it's like um think about it like uber
um you could be in let's say i'm in alabama and you're in africa there's no reason for you to have
a surcharge on your uber to be like fucking 150 bucks if they're trapped no no don't tell me gas
fees no no don't just tell me gas fees tell me in great detail why the tech of solana to you makes
it so much more bullish proof of time proof of time works um also just like less downtime um
overall like it's been doing well um just oh no this is not you know the tech the tech the tech
the tech like what part of the tech there's a lot of tech
we we don't know anything we literally don't know we just buy things that go up and most of the time
we buy things that go down okay you tell me part of the tech why you think ethereum is so much more
bullish because i think ethereum walked so solana could run so i don't think ethereum is more bullish
in terms of gains if you if we're talking strictly financial no we're talking so like with solana
elite i could integrate it into more web 2 use cases in ethereum that's why i'm more bullish
on solana than ethereum and rust is a lot easier to code than solidity solidity is kind of a bitch to
code that's not what i've heard i've heard that rust is much more difficult and there's like a lot less
tools available for us compared to solidity right now as a developer that's just what i've heard i'm
nuts no no no i i feel you i digress just because me i'm kind of autistic and i really like rust
specifically just because i program as well so like i also like he's not wrong um like what
bad bro said like he's not wrong there's a lot more that is not bad brothers or sorry alpha speaker
sorry alpha speaker alpha speaker bad brother has a red eye on being out ge
look i'm bullish on solana too i'm i'm not close they look close my bad i'm not trying to put you
on the spot because i'm i'll be the first to admit like if someone were to tell me leave tell me why
solana is so much more bullish on the tech side i i don't like i don't know the specifics i'll be the
first one to admit um admit that but that's why i want to learn so um but the thing is that people
always go to is like gas fees and things like that and obviously that is a great benefit to of course
it's a great benefit to solana but like what do you give up with the gas fees being so much cheaper
and then you have people coming from the other side saying well solana will never be as
decentralized as ethereum and i'm not gonna lie i kind of believe that like i it can be more
decentralized than it is now and again decentralization is a scale right we say this
all the time you're either heavily heavily decentralized or you're not very decentralized and
there's a lot of places in the middle that you can fall so we're not going to ever get true
true decentralization um no 100 and like the thing is i don't think a lot of people know fell i mean
like i don't genuinely think like i mean when you talk about the tech like it's almost like
it's funny because like i gen i mean like if you ask like the average person when you said going to
l2s it's like just two steps it's funny because like going to solana is one step because metamask
sucks bro metamask the ui is the ui the ui uh ui and ux is terrible wait hold up everybody always
says that everybody always says that metamask sucks give me a specific about and i i look i agree
the browser the browser is slow as shit i use um okay so you're talking you're talking mobile
specifically yeah mobile specifically because a lot of people will be trading mobile i was like most
people won't take the time because that's a third step to open your laptop and then download it
versus if you're on your phone you read it you can download off the app store just boom download
backpack which is a big thing if you can just download it off the app store you're good um
and then like i mean like have you used backpack so i don't i think like i think like metamask and
phantom at the end of the day they're the same thing but like when you like the reason why solana
users think like uh phantom is so good is that like the blockchain that they're interacting while
they use phantom is solana so like every time they log into adapt and then they interact to buy
and pay less gas fees is is seamless list yes let's say let's let's say if metamask started
with solana and did that like metamask would be like great so i actually think that's such facts
because like again you you pull up phantom and everything's seamless because it's on solana
and metamask is fucking clunker ethereum is clunky and all this stuff now i do admit there are some
cool things on on on phantom like i like how i can just see my nfts very easily and stuff but now
even metamask has an nft tab and i can just click it and see my nfts as well so um i mean i still think
phantom's a better wallet but um i don't think metamask is as bad as what people say but you know
what's like interesting and it makes like this debate kind of even more interesting and goes back to
the title why eat sucks is that like ordinals have been around for a year and like the ui ux on xverse
is pretty similar to solana like the it's like pretty frictionless to be honest in my mind it's
like it's pretty close to being like exactly like phantom i agree with leap though ordinals is going to
be for like those people who are like high like think of ordinals as like the uh like the so that be
so that bees or like christie's of art like that's going to be the high-end art shit
like that's going to be high-end collectors like one of ones like i think ordinals is great for
having like uh you guys remember fidenza like fidenza's or like ogs like like really good pieces
of art like those are going to live forever on what you said is the most seamless and beautiful
blockchain like i love i wouldn't say i wouldn't say the most seamless but it is a beautiful blockchain
now it's the og one it's the oldest running one it's not beautiful but it's beautiful in its own
way where it's like it's not seamless but it's it's the og you know what it is like i know what
you mean but and like i think that people who want really good um like i think people who want really
good um pieces like one of ones and stuff that they want to like you know exonerate forever and
you want to have that there like you'll always have that one piece there on the bitcoin blockchain that
will live longer than everybody in this space unless elon can convince us to live longer than
100 years which i don't know if i want well speaking of ordinals um only fans is going to be
integrating with inscriptions and ordinals i don't know if y'all saw that dude no say this trip
is such a straight face it baffles me are you kidding wait only fans chatterbait like they're all
going to ordinals what are you talking about did you get did you get deal flow lined up with that or what
no i didn't get deal flow lined up um okay look we're gonna we got to go to the hands we'll go
over to we're gonna go over to micro micro good to see you what do you think about this what's up
guys uh thank you for having me on stage um first off i jumped up when you were like yo hot takes and
um my first hot take is all dogs go to heaven uh shout out to hugo uh i have a hugo too
um when we think about how these chains are going to affect us or eth sucks or solana is is bump um
you got to think about it just from the brand perspective or the business perspective too and
i know you guys are deep in this but you know when you think about a brand like nike for instance and
i spent 15 years tokenizing um branded products they are not just they're not just looking at the
product from the standpoint of when we interact with it at manufacturer they have four points at
least in manufacturing so every one of those is a transaction if you want to put them all on chain
and then from that point you have to think about distribution and then the consumer engagement so
how do we if we're really doing hot takes which chain which l1 or zk roll up whatever is going to
take us to the point where we can do that for not just pennies but fractions of pennies zero dollars
to get them on board and make them more money than what they're actually making because that's the real
problem it's not like how are we going to consume it how are we going to get a better user experience
we'll get a better user experience when they start putting the products and making them available to
us but when does that transaction happen and which which technology is actually going to be able to do
it and i think solana right now of the l1s is the cheapest they can handle the most transactions
but they're going to get congested we're we're we're very small we're niche there's you know
what 10 000 of us maybe 100 000 of us max what happens when you start doing trillions of products per
year per brand hundreds of scans before it even hits the consumer's hand and that's the real hot
take like what's going to be able to handle that so um i know you guys are fully versed in this but
when we start talking l1 versus l2 solana versus eth he sucks eth is great you know like we're here
because we're doing it we're proving the point but when do we want actual functional technology
that really changes the world dude that was a banger take
yeah it's the that's the golden question um that was i'll say this um and maybe maybe it's solana
maybe it's fucking bitcoin cash who knows um but don't do me like that man maybe it's only fans
chain who knows um look i'll say this we always use this uh you know this is like only 100k of us and
i'd pitch this and see what you guys think like i think there's a lot more people in crypto than
people think but there's a not as many just on twitter and like day trading nfts and things like
that right so like shiba inu has 1.3 million holders now that's probably a lot of people on
coinbase and robin hood and things like that but they still hold crypto it might not be a non-custodial
wallet and whatever but they still hold it right so there's millions of people that that hold crypto
um just something to think about but in terms of the chain that's going to be able to do all these
things i don't know do you think it's going to i mean here's a question for you micro do you think
solana has a better chance of getting there as opposed to let's say eth l2 dude like no i know it's
uh eth l2 maybe but in general no i i think the real question is is like hey we can look at this and
we can be like well the market cap for all of crypto is two trillion or whatever and it's going
to go up and that number is going to get like exponentially better and we're all going to be
excited but the real issue that we should be looking at is like what is revenue for businesses
and in 2022 it was something like 7.9 billion dollars that's a big number right but i was looking
to the kegger and you know a good kegger for a like up-and-coming business is 20 to 30 percent right
the kegger for blockchain technology over the next five years not 10 years five years is like 66 percent
we're going to like 90 billion in terms of revenue um on blockchain technology and that doesn't mean like
i hold the coin and i'm good at ta and like i sell the top and you know i know when to buy the bottom
it's like let's invest in the technology that's actually going to do it so we may not even know
what we're holding right like we're aol prodigy right now right like this is this is not something
that we should really be looking at like how can i speculatively gain like sure there will be people
who emerge from it but um i think really the issue is is like what technologies are we building
and how can we make them accessible to people i think there's a great also shout out
here uh shout out to hugo and um shout out to to space riders i still have like five space riders
zubik is a beast so i haven't seen a space rider on our stage in a really long time so
shout out to them um but i think it's a great question does anybody on stage have a response
to this you guys can just jump in you have to use your hands so yeah i think it's gonna be like
divided into ecosystems like every blockchain is gonna have a category and they're gonna be utilized
in a different way if we all think the space is gonna grow that's how we have to kind of
utilize the blockchains right now we're like kind of testing nfts and like in the capabilities of
them and like the use cases and we see like the pros and cons of each blockchain um and i think
down the line we'll we'll differentiate what's what's the real use case of a of each blockchain
and and what what they're gonna do for like irl uh products and and how they're gonna be integrated
in different companies and how companies in like right now in irl are gonna integrate these blockchains
and and kind of just yeah kind of just move it into their in like existing infrastructure
well look at what disney's doing right now disney's selling digital pins they're running it back
you know what i mean so i that's not really like maybe as big of a scale as some other people are
looking for on the tech side but it's so interesting to see you know what i mean i'm down to buy some
star wars uh pins i mean jack you just popped up on stage you see the title eat sucks does he i mean
talk to me here does ethereum suck like are we wasting our time what's up well it's if if you
bought it three dollars it doesn't suck for you okay okay we're talking straight because this is the
differentiation here right like outside of price and like how much money you can make on it does
ethereum suck yes well well you have to say suck and compare comparison to what it doesn't suck
compared to economic perspective ethereum sucks okay how about this how about this outside of price
appreciation and how much money you can make what's better salon or eth dude gas fees make zero
sense what's the price of doing business on eth right to keep it that's the thing it's like we
don't need a chain where there needs to be price of doing business we need a chain where all business
can be done go ahead jack solana has better user experience i mean kind of like everybody knows that
all right let's talk about decentralization for a second i would not disagree that solana has
better user experience i mean it's everything is higher nakamoto coefficient as well ah then not dude
where satoshi hasn't been around for like 20 years nakamoto coefficient's overrated now look i'll say
this well you're talking about leap you're talking about decentralization yeah he is no he is talking
about decentralization and that's a very good point because specifically the thing is like i i genuinely
feel like the only reason solana runs is because bro i was like normal people do not want to use
ethereum it like ethereum walked so solana could run because naturally we will and that's the problem
with this space is that people latch on to like technology that they think is like yo this is it and
it's like when something new comes around they're like no it's not and it's like you have to learn to
adapt to better technology when i was like that's how the whole world works
like nakamoto uh coefficient it doesn't like really it's a it's a good like benchmark to
distinguish uh decentralization so like if you want to look at that benchmark like you look at
blockchains like chia like chia um it's like the closest and most efficient blockchain to like
uh bitcoin um yeah it might be even actually better uh so yeah so i don't think nakamoto
coefficient is always thrown around but it's not like the best metric to like look at but but
there's but there's different metrics there's two two different types of metrics so like the there is
the storage of value that's where you really care about the nakamoto coefficient and decentralization
and then there's the chains that are trying to improve user experience so like for example optimism
and arbitrum have better user experience versus ethereum but they do suffer from centralization
so the question is can we have both uh storage of value decentralization and i guess the third one is
the better user experience and oftentimes you can't have all three uh especially with the with the nakamoto
uh uh consensus style design where the blocks are sequential have limited space and have to be
ordered the in one line all right what do you think hey you know what has a badass user experience
fucking jp morgan and fucking like zelle like let's just use that shit that they have and you know
you know what scales really fucking well like visa and like mastercard what the fuck are y'all even
talking about like why would you even care about like user experience and fucking scale
ability when there's only 10 000 dgens trying to lay a fucking bet in the casino and no shit the best
casino is the one that takes the lowest rake so that's why solana's the shit but like if if you're
not doing anything different and you don't actually feel like you own this shit then fucking use web to
traditional rails like don't even bother with blockchain okay so that is that nigga spit in
your honor oh hold up that is a bait that is actually pretty base take because yeah zelle is
instant you know i mean like all of these things work so much better than crypto like it's just the
truth are you kidding me it is literally the truth now if i want to send like cross border to my family
in syria like of course crypto is going to be better but where do you expect my 85 year old syrian
grandma in syria that doesn't even have an internet connection to off-board ethereum and then spend
it like like what do we we are so far away from like any of this even being usable and i agree like
visa dude they give me cash back and airline points but the blockchain would solve that problem as well
of like so then why do we care about tech i was like most people are here there's a reason to care
about tech right like let's say eat uh leet said uh like where from syria that's from like yeah so
what's wrong what's wrong with syria bro we gotta no that is he's not wrong bro i was like those are
people who need to have bank right that person from syria now is using a blockchain phone has more
coverage and it is like the accessibility of that phone is cheaper um then you'll be able to like
transfer through blockchains through another uh case so like the tech is there so like uh blockchain
coverage and phone coverage could be something down the line that like that could solve these
type of issues that leap sees that like which one to pick of that's gonna succeed higher or
have usability cases down the line i'm just gonna say there's a huge part of rural america that doesn't
even have high speed internet and we're like sitting here trying to like build the future of finance
with crypto like can we sell bro it's not like that anymore i mean like dude that it is like that
for me right now as we speak in southern in southern virginia and then that doesn't even dude go to west
virginia and it is way worse and so much of the midwest and like central uh i live in colorado i can
get i get a gigabit and i pay like 80 bucks a month okay that's colorado dude there are a lot of
places in the united states that don't have high speed internet the best thing they have is huesnet
bro huesnet is 69 kilobytes a second and then they throttle you after watching one mr beast video
like it it is we're talking like different things here um but look we have somebody who just came up
on stage voin bolin i'm sorry if i'm pronouncing that wrong um boyan it says your crypto at mass your
blockchain and crypto at mastercard so we're talking about visa this and that i mean you've been
hearing the conversations what do you think um yeah it's volin by the way but uh what dado is saying
is is true and not only that but we are building on blockchain as well like visa mastercard the a lot
of web 2 is building on chain and is building for interoperability cross-chain so unfortunately
for the degen world you know a lot of the existing web 2 companies are the only ones that
have the scalability to actually make this stuff go mainstream and yes to some degrees some things are
going to be centralized but at the same time do you want consumer protections do you want compliance
audits do you want to make sure that you know for businesses let's say maybe for somebody that wants
full decentralization i understand that those solutions are not going to be the go-to option
but for a lot of businesses that do want to do cross-border settlement instantaneously
they're going to go to us or to an existing web 2 company that has the infrastructure to make all this
stuff happen because just because you can send money cross-border doesn't mean that's you're doing
it legally doesn't mean you're doing in a compliant way and i know that that doesn't matter for
everybody but at the end of the day that's what it's going to take for us to actually reach
scalability of these solutions of blockchain and that's how you're going to get it integrated
into the world essentially what's the standardized like um regular like when mastercard builds like
like international transfers what's like something that like crypto what crypto like meets the
international transfer uh laws you're gonna have to restructure that question my man because
it's it's not that the crypto meets international laws it's the institutions doing it and the
regulatory checks that you have to go through just to do a cross-border payment that's compliant with
country a and country b right so you can do cross-border payments in every type of crypto
it's how it's done right it's it's the institutions that are doing it's the level of kyc that's being
done on the end users and like it or not kyc is coming and it's becoming a regular part of what
everything you're going to be doing in web3 i mean look at what the d gods are doing with the
did you know that's that's a kyc process for them to be able to leverage those kyc users and do
other things maybe even issue cards to their holders and things like that now the banks have
been way ahead of the game you know jp morgan chase has that thing called um i think it's called quorum
and and it's for all of their um financial applications them wells fargo bank of america
they started i mean they were very much early adopters of blockchain technology
so i think they started i think it was in 15 or 16 and if you look at the like there's a whole list
obviously ibm and every everybody was like that they were very ahead of the game so um so yeah i
just wanted to add that piece yeah whether or not you guys know it like blockchain has been
in tokens tokenization of data and and all of that's been part of how companies have been doing
business for the last several years like that's just internal you don't even know it's happening
and so you know mass adoption is here it's just you know it's maybe not doesn't fit the picture
that everybody has in their mind but it's it's being done in a way that's compliant and it has to be
done that way if you want to do it at scale internationally and have governments adopting it right
otherwise you know you're fighting a battle that's i mean you keep seeing the results in courts
and and charges being filed and you know trust me i came like i didn't come to mastercard
um you know i come from a legal background myself so i kind of understood the importance of all these
things and i realized if i actually wanted to make an impact in the play in this space it had to be
done with a company that has the reach to release the product globally and that can be just integrated
and accepted like by governments by regulatory institutions like that's what it takes you know
that's actually why i joined mastercard i it was a strategic decision where i looked at companies in
web2 that were building in web3 and could actually make an impact at scale you know so it's just what the
way it's happening is not how everybody envisioned it you know i heard it actually on books used to say
this on the on web3 exposed spaces all the time like this shit's gonna happen behind the scenes
you're not even gonna realize it's happening and then it's just gonna be there and that's what's
happening right now so uh quick take on this i don't think first principles of crypto are even
compatible with credit card companies like credit card companies are not crypto they can move crypto
assets around they can move stable coins around but stable coins by definition are stable with the dollar
the dollar is inflationary it's been inflate more inflationary than ever and crypto was specifically
designed to not to be out of control inflationary controlled by governments or any sort of central
authorities that is why we've had crypto that has been rugged by random people and it's been
inflationary and deflationary based on pumps and dumps it is relevant it is irrelevant it is irrelevant
it is irrelevant because if somebody creates a shitcoin that's uh basically using uh you know
ragfi that is certainly is available but it isn't it isn't necessarily like actually means what
what crypto is it's just a method to scam people and of course it exists but it doesn't negate the
fact that crypto was created specifically to fight centralization to fight authority to give people
self-custody so that they can hold their coins whatever they want in their wallet and not be censored
so we actually don't need credit cards moving crypto around and we don't need any stable coins
but you do if you want to buy a coffee at starbucks with our crypto card you literally can do that you
can spend your apecoin your eth your dogecoin whatever it is yeah but i can do it with my
point of sale so that's my point like yes i agree with you bro a hundred percent but just because like
we're not a credit card company we're a payments company which means that
hold on let me finish the thought because you're gonna see where i'm going with this you can pay with
whatever you want you can hold it in an off-chain wallet you're just gonna need to interact with
web2 companies to off-ramp to do business for now do a lot of the other things for the next foreseeable
future maybe in 50 years you won't but like 10 years that's how you get there so like right now
like web2 infrastructure has to be integrated with web3 infrastructure so we could like kind of run
with it like that's the only way like you see it on that's what's happening helium helium and solana
on the on the on the solana phone are interacting with t-mobile t-mobile is like the web2 in it like
network infrastructure and then helium is the decentralized infrastructure that's integrating with
uh t-mobile so like that's like the high like the hybrid that we see kind of going so like uh
mastercard is doing the same kind of thing so like you see the web2 infrastructure with the uh web3
uh decentralized uh custody infrastructure so like that's like where we're going for right now until
we get like fully in like invasive in that uh web2 uh space so that goes back to the question why does
eat suck like like cause the easiest way to interact with web2 is like having you like user-friendly
uh products and what's going to do that with scalability is most likely going to be something
that's easy to use frictionless uh than anyone could interact with so so i think i think a good
thing to mention here is to understand that when it comes to blockchain it's easy to think about it as
just having two customers one is corporations and one is people what corporations love about blockchain
is that it solves the double spend problem it disintermediates everything and it's immutable
what people love about blockchain is digital ownership and permissionless access and decentralization
now for that first group of customers they can spin up any fucking shit chain and l2 that they want to
in order to solve their double spend problem and the disintermediation and the immutability but the
people cannot spin up shit chains and l2s in order to get that sense of digital ownership and
permissionless access and decentralization so solana of the like all the solanas of the world are going
to win like corporations are going to fucking love them but the people are probably going to only choose
like one or two things and you can probably guess what those two things are well a quick take on that if
somebody spins up an l2 in their corporation it has nothing to do with immutability they can edit the
records uh as they please anytime they want
okay sounds like a really shitty l2 but uh i have no doubt that there are definitely l2s that are at
that shitty yeah it doesn't need to be shitty it has nothing to do with technology it's all it's all
about the the control uh that an entity has by running a single node or maybe a quorum of nodes within
within an umbrella of a corporation that's all that means they actually they're they're not shady
they just have options to edit ledger to be compliant with whatever the compliance they want to come
up with so that is actually not crypto it looks like crypto it is maybe compatible with metamask
but it is uh not crypto it's just like another way to tell people that i'm running crypto therefore
my company is cool okay so before we go to the hands let's reset the space quickly welcome to
eat sucks and i need i want real arguments to why eat sucks okay um now if you're enjoying anything
about the conversation we got a link at the top to support the space a like comment or retweet every
like on the tweet increases the nakamoto coefficient of ethereum and it will surpass it uh solana so if
you're bullish on ethereum okay well look the point is uh we're going in the hands uh we're going to
bad brother bad brother tell me why the government is uh out to get us i mean you know that's just the
nature of the state right no but i think you know what do you call owen and uh you know i'm in the
cypher camp but i think bowen is kind of looking at the like uh what do you call uh five-year time
frame like i think he's i think they're both right in that sense right where but but to uh cypher point
i mean ultimately the reason why you know bitcoin was invented uh was to separate money from the
state because the fiat monetary system is doomed to fail and you need sound money um so at the end
of the day i think you know you know whether it be 5 10 20 30 years bowen's gonna be right for that
time but when uh when he calls uh when that does collapse you know it is going to be the you know
when we're talking user experience it's like yeah yeah the mastercard the visa cards and sales they all
work until the bank says you we don't have the money we can't give you the money um so yeah i mean
like i said i think it's gonna i think we're gonna see all these types of you know banks and everything
adopt these blockchain technology to work that into their payment rail but ultimately you know bitcoin
will ultimately take over or um other cryptocurrencies instead and um you know as long as those don't
have kyc i mean the government's going to try to um i mean we saw with warren you know a few uh weeks ago
talking about one of the band called storage obviously you can't so um but that's the way
it was designed it was designed to make it so they can't do that i mean it's always going to be a fight
and people are going to have to make their own decisions in terms of whether they want to lie
down picking up the ass from the government or if they want to you know sit there and fight and uh
you know some of us will some of us won't but the ones who do will really be the winner so uh yeah
that's my take on it why is that the analogy that you use lie down and anyway um okay here's the thing
though well let's talk about decentralization for a second i mean is solana centralized i mean
that's a question that everybody's asking look we'll go to the hands um i'll go over to micro micro
what do you think oh man not not not my area is it decentralized uh no it's on chain but uh listen
there's uh not my area go carry on no no please give your give the take you were going to give before
anyway well i i was uh you know dado and uh and bike and i are talking and i think i think one of
the things that we're not thinking about is is the data right like the respect to who the consumer is
and what they're actually going to want and yes these systems are extremely um convenient right like
15 years ago 20 years ago we were not putting our credit card information online we were not one
touching amazon and i know it comes up all the time but the reality is is that we are um doing
something that that is so foreign to everybody else that why would anybody want to have a to custody
their own stuff or or have their own wallet so yeah sure but at the end of the day we're getting
smarter right and like my kids are better at using the ipad than i am and they're two and four
um in 20 years they're going to actually ask questions that really matter and and you know
like i i have specific experience because my father worked in data research um long before i was alive
and so he understood the value of that and how you could take anonymous data from one source and
anonymous data from another source and put it together and actually figure out who that person really was
and and that happens all the time so you know these companies you know all due respect they're making
our lives easier and they're giving us cash back but um they're extracting a lot more than they're giving to
us long before we even get to uh credit card processing fees and uh high rates of interest so i want to see
them survive at the same time i think that the shift is happening now and what we really want to do
is create this technology in such a way that like we are focused on what matters and making sure that
people get the value that they're giving back and that the connections are actually moved and i i could
go on and wax poetic about you know technology predators and intermediaries and and why nike is ruling
because they have 70 um direct consumer and nobody else can touch them but at the end of the day it's
really like when we jump into a discord or we jump into a space like this we are interpersonal in a way
globally right like i have team members in australia i would never know them like i've never even met them
but they're close friends and that's not going to change that's going to accelerate because of the
technologies that we have um and so our processing is going to also accelerate and so to think that
the the current standards will just rule because they have largest market share um i'm not sure that
that stands that stands true you know like you look at the the transition from the automobile um prior to
that it was all horse and buggy right and there was whole industries built around horseshoes and you know like
uh uh blacksmiths and things that actually caused commerce to work and all those industries went
away instantly um in the course of 20 years and that was 100 years ago so what's going to happen
like five ten years i don't know um maybe i'm wrong but i'm guessing that a lot of these institutions
that think that they're impenetrable because they have government standards like when we start thinking
about sovereignty and we start controlling and actually really want like i don't think it's 50
years maybe it's 20 uh maybe it's 10. let me uh just add this well micro said like that's a very um
i'm not saying it's being insulted but like what do you call some of the things that you're saying like
american perspective where it's just like you know you see a lot of kind of normies say things a lot
with like bitcoin and stuff where it's just like oh it's solving a problem it doesn't exist but
um you know what he called that's just because we've had a pretty stable financial system
relatively to the rest of the world right i mean you know i always bring up the argentinian example
where we see my boy harvey winning over that but you know i mean you saw greece during the financial
crisis people not or i think it was a bit after um when they had their registry not able to pull their
money out of the banks or whatever and things like that and that's where people start looking towards
crypto i mean we see the adoption now el salvador for uh bitcoin and everything so um yeah i mean
ultimately i think developing countries are probably gonna have a bigger need for it at
this point than the u.s but you know that just goes back to my point that you know um whenever
that fiat monetary system fails the u.s and you know that that's when our need goes there so but
but the u.s but the u.s has been getting fucked on ip for a long time too you know and that's why
that's why product standardization and and a universal uh like global repository of all inventory is
very important and that's something else that the blockchain solves so uh yes that is
fair enough okay let's go to volan volan the great irony of being a libertarian while also advocating for
globalism how am i advocating i mean uh what do you call no not i mean there's globalism in the sense that
uh uh there's a more globalization i guess globalism is more like a political term where
it's globalization it's just you know the interconnection of economies and everything
which i'm almost like you can do it chains oh i said what'd you say it's an it's almost like that's
the whole point of blockchains hmm 100 i mean you know i'm all for free trade and free markets
a libertarian who does not want government wants governing protocols yeah i mean because government
is forced governing is as long as it's voluntary that's what's the ultimate i mean you know libertarianism
is all about volunteerism it's all about do you have the choice to opt in or opt out and if you do
have that choice you have the choice to leave that's all that's all it's about yeah not disagreeing
there i just think that uh my theory is that crypto is the greatest psyop in history for to grow
globalism which i don't really care personally but i think it's one large psyop that people just have
no idea what they're talking about can i squeeze in here bro so there's that old saying which is like
i forget who said it but we've all probably all heard it which is like never underestimate the power
of a small group to change the world because historically that's all that ever has there's
a great example of like so so firstly i find in web3 we suffer from like definitions and most of these
things there you can associate them with kind of like you can translate them on a spectrum and most of
us we sit in different points of the spectrum and things are said and because of our interpretation
we translate things differently so sometimes you even agree on the sentence but you're agreeing on
two different things i want to like probably start off by saying like there's certain things like an
organization a company a group most of these things are fundamentally the same thing it's a group of
people and ultimately managing them is like managing human energy which is the same as making a product
for end user there's been many times in history where like technology is also uh an interesting
term governance is a technology it doesn't necessarily need to be like uh how can i say like a tangible tool
even the kind of the structure of conversation and the the structure of kind of like debate and
leadership this is also a technology uh right now we've all been i want to say like we've all been exposed
to computers and the potential of building a system and having that system processed efficiently
and we've all seen to some extent crypto but in the same way that we you know we play a game we
focus on our character stats we don't really know what's happening in the architecture and in the back
end in the same way like we're sending around crypto but we're not really thinking about how does
this technology fundamentally work not everybody obviously the guys that initially created bitcoin they
did it for a specific reason a moment ago people were saying you might not need it in america
actually the reason they created it and if we look at the time that it was released it's because we
needed it in america when the founding fathers made the american system they were essentially a small group
of rebels trying to create a better system one that's less oppressive there is an opportunity for us today
to build a system we're in our best mindset you know like imagine you could enforce yourself to go to
the gym when you know the night before when you know like when you're not feeling lazy you could like
set up a system where you're 100 percent gonna go this is exactly what we're doing now instead of saying
like you know uh let's let's essentially like leave it to chance we're saying in certain situations the
system will just not allow you to do certain things it's very similar i always give an example
of you know let's say you're playing a game of chess with somebody you set up the board you need
to go to the toilet there's this dilemma if you leave the board is the board going to be exactly the
same but if you're playing on chess.com you don't have that same issue in the same way right now we're
able to set up these systems these systems can be set up in a way where it's essentially a machine
in a glass box where we can see how the machine works what the input and the output is and then
we can agree on the system and then go on then there's a conversation to be had which is the
title of this which is like does it suck and can it be improved as as this kind of machine to help us
regulate this human energy and essentially to solve problems because ultimately if it's not advancing
the human experience we're probably doing something wrong but for sure crypto uh maybe it's
not being expressed in the way that it truly can but for sure the technology there is hyper powerful
to the point where i didn't say i think it was micro where you're saying like right now we work across
across the world we don't even need to know the person this is already a great example of the
fundamental shift in the nature of trust that you're now able to trust people over long term over you know
in like your your business and in your endeavors like it's like you're giving your life with these
people on this journey and you're able to trust it because you can create systems that basically and apparently
show the interaction so i'm really hopeful for it i hope we can do things in cheaper ways so we can have
more interactions without the cost because ultimately that's what it's all about is having those engagements and those interactions
i think f did a great job in getting us started but you know in this system in these structures like in
in these kind of like industries it's very hard after a certain point there's so much risk there's so much
that can go wrong but you can't move quickly after a certain point so yeah i hope to see it get cheaper but
for sure we need to culturally wake up in the same way that america was established in a stronger direction than it is now
and they kind of like i want to say deviated from their fundamental there was like there was like
you know the irs is a thing that you can argue goes against some of the initial i want to say like
direction of the i'm going into weird things but some will agree somewhere but the central bank was the issue
i think you are way over complicating it it's a it's an exile spreadsheet that you get rewarded for
self-updating on your servers no bro it's way more than that it's a human energy management system which
allows us to digitally manage interaction across almost infinite time cheaply effectively in a way that
you can 100 guarantee as long as you know how to read the code it's so much more than an excel
spreadsheet it's an excel spreadsheet done by almost exactly that i'm going to try what you did i'm not
a janitor i am the leader of a high impact network that cleans sanitariums on the basis that i'm
fundamentally growing our society by creating clean areas in which humans can prosper for the greater good
of society sanitation is extremely important in societies but let's not let's not get to that
point where so if we get to that point of like wanting to debate academically and essentially
missing the point right now look onto your janitor point does the janitor actually make a significant
impact impact in that space do they impact in that way maybe if they have that level of articulation
we can't necessarily say they're wrong but you can then be extreme and make it wrong without the janitor
this whole place wouldn't be here which is maybe a extreme example that's no longer true
if we look at bitcoin was bitcoin able to be created
by a group of anonymous entities but still has enough trust in global systems even these companies
that we held in so high regard right it's even trusted by them and right now it's in there
it's part of their assets in the same way when we look at the biggest regulatory structures even the
the central banks they're adopting crypto so i'm not sure how far we want to go is like the argument
breaks down there's a fundamentally there's a thing i said to god why me and god said you're an egotistical
asshole it's never been about you
the point i'm making bitcoin is that sometimes a dog is just a dog and a pig is just a pig
and just because you love the dog and the dog is your whole world doesn't change the fact that it's
just a dog okay that is ridiculous hugo is more than just a dog now second i just i'm just making
the point that let's not over complicate something that really is simple it is a decentralized excel
spreadsheet that we happen to use it for like several functions and because we self-update it on our
local servers we get a little bonus for doing it and the reward is to make sure we keep updating
wait but hold up jonah hold up jonah your whole thing is like you're saying something just because
something is simple doesn't mean it's not impactful it's uh it's impactful but also let's not but
sometimes you get if you get too far into the beauty of something you forget what its core function
is it's about ownership who controls it's about who controls aws controls look the core function is
transferring value i mean and that is powerful that has been the basis of all of human civilization
when you get into a car it's powerful when you make espresso machine coffee it's powerful but
it's also just a part of everyday life and i think we can get so into something you know you
ever you ever smoke a bowl or not you don't smoke you can't smoke a bowl all right you ever you ever
smoke and you like stare at the water and you're like wow imagine the billions and trillions of
particles that are going in and out of the water oh my god i'm also made of stars wait i can't feel
my legs like that's kind of what can i say this bro jonah jonah can i all right hold on hold on
volan was supposed to speak like 20 minutes ago and he got cut off so we're gonna go to volan
and i do also want to hear from chris um if you can't feel your legs you are not smoking weed you
are that is laced um look anyway uh we got to get to it let's reset this but welcome everybody to eat
sucks um we're quitting eth it's over it's all over selling all my eth if you're enjoying anything
about this conversation click the link at the top or the button in the bottom right hand corner drop a
like comment retweet and uh tell me tell me what you think eth soul cardano bitcoin cash litecoin
what are you interested in look i want to quickly go over to vol and vol and talk to us i mean what
do you think about this um is the blockchain really just a dog uh i wouldn't use quite that terminology
although i appreciate jonah's uh you know keeping it simple take uh i think at the end of the day
that's kind of the whole point at the of all of this right like we have so much we have going on
we we trust certain companies and businesses whether it's in web 3 web 2 whatever to do business with
and i think some companies in web 2 i don't want to speak on everybody's behalf obviously but i'll just
from my own perspective in terms of what we're doing uh and again i'm not views of my own i'm only
gonna i can only talk about things that are publicly disclosed obviously but we're working with layer ones
just so they can build their own shit in your own development community you can build their own stuff
that essentially we're not just a credit card company as i said we're we're payment facilitator we have
point of sale partnerships with merchants in over 180 million locations around the world
so that if anything you want to do in web 3 you want to actually be able to impact and transact with
at that scale internationally physically at locations not just digitally to your phone like
you know in places where things are difficult at times and you know like they don't have all that
shit but they do have credit card accounts with their bank and you know and at the end of the day
we don't just work with banks we did a whole program with ledger in the eu where half a million people
signed up to just literally as a self-custody wallet provider you can use a debit card through mastercard
to spend your own shit that you hold yourself you know we don't touch any of that stuff like we just
facilitate those transactions and that's what's happening that's the adoption that's happening right now
that i think some people are a little hesitant of you know the bill big brother um perspective of
things but i'll tell you like you want to work with companies that have that level of scrutiny
upon them because i can't tell you the amount of regulatory compliance checks due diligence data
storage data integrity penetration testing uh fucking smart contract auditing that you have to go
through the level of sanction screening of you as an entity are you a terrorist that's you know where's
the money coming from like those are the key things we look for we don't mess with regular people it's
like you have to have certain levels of protection in place if you want to actually transact at a global
scale that's the reality of things and like jonah was saying i think we're over complicating it by
making it like this big deal like we work with companies in web3 that build their own solutions
we just plug them into the rest of the world essentially and that's what's happening right now
across the like the financial sector you we're building a multi-token network that literally connects d5
to existing financial infrastructures around the world so you could one day potentially be able to send
eth from your off-chain account or your ledger wallet to somebody's bank account in another country
frictionlessly instantaneously and you're sending them crypto they're receiving whatever the hell they
need to spend in that country not dogecoin necessarily you know what i mean like that's
that's the adoption that's about to happen and is happening and i think i definitely appreciate these
twitter spaces that's why i tune in because i want to hear this perspective from the people but i think
what i'm hearing is like this level of hesitation and like fear almost of just what we're doing today
being done in a better way through the integration of blockchain in everything we do i think i mean
hold on just real quick if we're saying just like oh you know if we're making a big deal of something so
simple i mean let's just think about something like capitalism simple as fucking idea people have
private ownership over their property that made the production and um you know could trade and exchange
voluntarily without the king um what do you call arbitrarily you know determining monopolies and
stuff and what did that do that gave us the greatest um increase in human wealth in human
history over a three hundred year period so just because an idea is so simple does not mean it is so
impactful the idea of separating money from the state is one of the greatest advancements of human
liberty since 70 76 i said it the other night because through the money supply they inflate the money
they can they uh tax us they control us and when we are able to separate that from their control
they can't fight the wars they fight they can't do all of these things so yes it is a very simple
concept but the amount of impact that that does is very far reaching just like capitalism was
perfect leap can i jump in real uh jump in that yeah just let me just real quick like
yes you're correct and nothing that we're building is going to stop any of what you're talking about
that's the point like at the end oh no sure i get you and and you know some companies yes may be
challenging the ethos of what web3 is but others are also just embracing and trying to work alongside
and give you a platform to showcase the cool shit that you do we have an accelerator program
that works let's specifically focus on crypto and blockchain we don't take any money from anybody
we don't ask for any equity up front the only thing we ask from you is that if we love what you do
we'd like to invest in you you know like those are the kind of things we're doing we just did an
innovation sprint for our multi-token network with over a hundred web3 startups and banks applied
to build interactive shit between each other through our multi-token network for real estate
transactions for carbon credits and nobody asked for anything for that you know that was just like
a scalar event to help grow the the community and help create these integrations that need to happen
if we actually do want to see global adoption of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology
all right chris this is your moment bolan thank you for the take i appreciate you
chris take it away no no i appreciate it thank you i think it's it's pretty apropos um i don't
disagree with anything that vo just said i think and when it comes to you know how does why is web 3
more important than web 2 or how is it evolution or where's the value at right is the decentralization
aspect and i think that's where you know some some of the uncomfort levels come about is where where is the
ownership where is the decentralization is it true decentralization is it a multi-sig is it a multi-sig
is it a multi-sig where you know a couple entities actually hold the power and it's like faux
decentralization but really it's really web 2.5 or is it really are we going in the direction that
now we say we're going right and so what is crypto saying and what is the reality under the hood
how far apart is that right and we all know that there there is a disconnect there what we present
as decentralized crypto and what is the reality are not aligned right now hopefully the future is so
but we are we are not there yet what we advertise as decentralized and what the reality quote unquote
multi-sigs and et cetera et cetera we're not quite there yet and so but we're getting there and
that's the vision et cetera et cetera understood um and then the hardware requirements and tps and speed
and the requirements of that and just the technology and how we disseminate and diffuse that over time
that's a different consideration too i mean first you have to have a system that's robust and powerful
and fast enough to do all the requirements that we need and then after that fact how do we then
make it accessible that the the person in southeast asia or sub-sahafrican africa can actually be a
validator in such a powerful node that would historically require a data center to run so that's a different
problem to understand right um and so you know it's an evolution of things and then um you know i had
quite a number of thoughts i wanted to vocalize but i kind of lost my train of thought but i think the
main thing is the vision is good but i don't see us as web 3 i see us right now as web 2.5 trying to be web
three and then how to filter you know and i'm going to be candid the hypocrites and the value
extractors from the true believers that want to get us there to the to the reality um and who's this
just here for the short-term profit i guess
chris i appreciate the take and uh i guess we're gonna have to see we're gonna have to really wait
and see jack i mean what do you think uh really really quick take on this so i hear a lot of uh
people say that we want global adoption but i'm really curious how what does it mean
that we want global adoption like what what does what does this really mean to you like can anybody
in the audience and out of this in this group actually say that what is global adoption and why
is it important yeah can i can i take that real quick everyone playing web three games on their
nintendo switch no no so put it this way i am right uh someone in a less prosperous let's say i am
someone in vietnam i don't make a lot of money a hundred dollars a month is a lot to me
i want to take a loan out right i'm and my country has a coup every two or three years
maybe vietnam's not a great place let's say like somewhere in africa right my country's government
changes every two to three years but i need to make a i need to take a loan out for a couple hundred bucks
so i can build my farm out and i need to prove i am who i am and i need to be able to get a credit
score and take a loan and make payments that are not like 150 apr just for a hundred bucks right so i
need to get myself out of that national system and in integrate myself in a system that's super
national super national where the only social credit i need is the what's on the blockchain
and that i can prove who i am i can prove that i pay my loans on time through the blockchain that i
take this money and i do what i need to do and i have a business etc and i am who i am
irregardless regardless of what country i am and who i am and so for us in america the first world or
wherever you guys are from maybe it's not a not a big question but in the world of whatever we are
not seven nine billion whatever that number is the vast majority are not us privileged one billion
people and so that's where blockchain comes in that's where decentralization companies comes in
where not one person or government or cabal gets to decide your future and gets to decide how much money
you get and gets to decide if you're worthy of a loan or not so right but so how do you think
that happens unless there's companies that have the ability to transact in those countries all over the
world that you're talking about to facilitate that payment or loan whether it's based on your crypto
account or whatever it is right why would they be facilitating anything i just think i think the
right way the phrase is is trustworthy companies trustworthy companies that have
prove their company's trustworthy right well so the point the point is they're losing the entire plot
like the facilitator is the blockchain the whole point is it's a trust right but like
no no no but like that brothers for like the intermediate system is that like these
no i mean we're just talking about global adoption the ultimate goal is that governments are priced in
bitcoin all right umf is one at a time one at a time i don't even know who who is speaking this is a
combobulation of a bunch of voices at this point but take it away i'm just saying let's define global
adoption global adoption is people and you know what you could say crypto but let's just say bitcoin
is people transacting in bitcoin people using bitcoin because things are priced in bitcoin and
bitcoin is easy to use so at the end of the day if the blockchain is facilitating those again the whole
point is things to be trustless not trusting any company or anything that that's the entire
believe in that i definitely believe in that like i i'm super about now in the short term may not seem
impossible but that's what i'm saying global adoption is from the original vision in the long
term but i mean for like for people to believe in and peer-to-peer transaction it has to be integrated
by someone that is actually already trusted inside the ecosystem of that uh why because that's the
easiest way for a government to be it may be the easiest way and again you're talking government
we're taking what i'm saying that those we're taking what is global adoption it is like bitcoin
is blockchain to transact bitcoin is separate from mastercard uh bad brothers it's like bitcoin is like
always going to be running at its own speed like mastercard is going to be trying to catch up by
integrating like solana or other uh chains into their ecosystems so like or bitcoin right
now i mean but i'm saying when we look at when we when we read the white paper when we look at the
original vision of crypto and you may say that bitcoin can't do this and you're you know in the
short term you're right in terms of like you know how slow it is and everything to transact or
whatever but the ultimate goal was peer-to-peer electronic cash where you don't need a mastercard
you don't need an intermediary you are just transacting in bitcoin back and forth to pay for everything
right so um you know i'm saying like yes in the short term like a mastercard it could be useful
this may be a much longer term vision but um and i'm all for companies adopting crypto and integrating
it but i'm just saying the ultimate vision of global adoption is whether you're in vietnam the usa you can
send crypto anywhere and you can buy anything in crypto and i pay like with crypto all the time or
like and bro like everywhere in the world just hold on i mean most people don't even pull out their
credit cards so it's just like you know they use your five phone or something else apple pay is
literally mastercard and visa came together and gave you all apple pay like google it you know what i
mean like all this stuff is literally like how do you actually physically make it happen boots on the
ground in those locations it's great right i mean right now again it's slow but you can use bitcoin you
scan a qr code you send the bitcoin oh shit i got hacked how do i get my bitcoin back how do you do
that and that's the risk you're eliminating the risk of the fiat monetary locations around
all right i'm about to deploy you guys on a blockchain this is one at a time okay what look
here's the thing um about crypto mfers we got to go to the hands all right hands hands okay i don't
know if it was volin or bad brother i'm about to deploy you guys to cardano if you don't chill so
volin go ahead thanks i'm gonna say one thing and then i'm chill but my point is like we're not we're
it's great to talk about this in theory and i love those conversations but the real reality is to make
that happen whatever your definition of adoption is it's gonna involve right businesses and locations and
people around the world that have access through phones or computers to certain types of technology
to do these transactions right and in order for you to get that adoption it's either going to be
existing companies that already have the scale and are working alongside the technology to do so
and enable it or you're going to have somebody within the community that builds something that can
be better and will force everybody else that's already at the table to play along like that's
i'm saying you're right in terms of that's going to happen but i'm saying when we talk about crypto
adoption in the original version of crypto the idea is i scan a qr code and i send you bitcoin and there
is no in the mere intermediary when you introduce those companies and then how do i just said you spend
you spend a qr code now mortgage companies have not integrated you can pay your mortgage in bitcoin
because they have not adopted bitcoin now ultimately if they wanted to how do you get that adoption
you need technology and the mortgage company wants to take bitcoin because the dollar
is useless and has collapsed that's how it doesn't have to be a dollar no like adoption comes from
regulation and government acceptance it could be it doesn't have to be in dollars bro it could be in
bitcoin it could be in east it could be in whatever that is the way for adoption to happen you're
both 100 right i'm saying that we have lost the plot that is the ultimate enemy of crypto and that's
where um you know that's ultimately the tool of our enslavement i think we need to treat this like
herpes once someone touches a bitcoin they automatically have to use it
okay all right look we're going over who who hasn't spoken yet um
we'll go to david david hasn't spoken yet david what do you think
i just honestly i thought my hand looked really good raised um
but yeah i mean it's a it's a it's a fire hose of information i'm i'm trying to take a sip of
just a sip of water um you guys are there's bacteria in the water
how you doing jonah jonah's last comment please continue this is uh quite entertaining uh bitcoin
has a great value it's the big boy um eth a lot more capable more expensive uh faster um yeah heck sucks
i feel like richard hart is really the one building the true
bro i pray he's not going to be the winner of this race
oh he's going to jail no he's gonna he's the one richard hart's the one
bro that's no way he's going to jail there's no
idiocracy is happening idiocracy is happening isn't it
i mean that is this your first saying crypto is that is what it is um wait did you hear what
happened with george santos today no what happened
this guy politician he he got expelled from congress and he goes
don't worry if you think me buying and only fans is bad wait till i tell you what the other
congressman did so i'm pretty sure he's going to be 86 soon
wait hold on hold on hold on hold on wait so he got expelled i know santa says but i didn't know
he got expelled yeah he got expelled today for uh well a number of things there should be a movie
about him his entire resume is a fraud um he pays for only fans i think with like a government
a card is what i read i don't know if that's true who's actually paying for only fans a lot of
only fans is making crazy money what is wrong if you need a wingman i can help hold on just for
research purposes uh what account did he uh subscribe to uh the chick was mid doesn't matter
he's only like the third congressman to have yeah i don't know if i was gonna pay for only fans i
wouldn't have paid for what he jona isn't your neighbor pregnant all right what what does that
even mean look uh i don't think so um hold on what did you say something about bad barbie
oh oh yeah oh yeah she is oh yeah but she's not in this area she's like down the street like
type thing okay her name is bad baby put some respect on her name i don't know who got her
pregnant but that's crazy also she's a catch me outside girl right i met her at burger fi
she's a true legend dude you got to give her props she's richer than all of us um now
bro she made like 40 she spends it hard she made 40 mil in one year on oh really that's pretty crazy
40 mil i would go to only fans for 40 mil i don't know i can't work 40 mil but all right
all right hold on can i be your manager lee no you can't be okay look here's the thing is she
math adopting here's that's crazy here's the thing what happened to anthony wiener bro is just like
sending nudes to everybody and what did he ever remember that guy on cnn who who was on a zoom
call and he got caught jerking to the fucking uh something tobin yeah yeah jeffrey tobin
that is that is a nightmare dude like you did there's no worse situation george santos and
jeffrey tobin are gonna end up in the same club shout out to anthony wiener um no but remember
anthony wiener he did it he went away for a while he decides to run for office again and then he did
it again man it's in the name it's in the name i don't have to tell you i don't know why we're
surprised he's literally named after it um i mean yeah the writers were terrible that season
the writers okay um we got it this is let's bring back to the crypto this looks great
it's like a great room let's bring back to crypto all right we're back to crypto um all right so
what do you think anthony's wiener's favorite crypto i think anthony wiener is definitely i would
say a wiener he's probably an xlp investor he's probably an xlp guy yeah definitely
all right okay at least his parents didn't name him richard wiener um look i want to
i want to go to the hands wouldn't he be wiener wiener or no dick wiener
dude we are we're supposed to be the leaders of web three what are we no we're not we're on twitter
spaces bro you denied shack coming up stop see this is i did i will that was because i didn't
see him in the request that was different dude half the people who go to spaces are like yeah
we're building this really cool protocol and then i look it's just like a twitter api connector that
gives you like poopoo points my favorite time in web three history was when i tagged sam altman
and he actually came over to leap stage and everybody was calling him the devil
that was dude that that probably killed any opportunity i ever have of working
no bro he's now gonna be the ceo dude you're actually
he's gonna be the next bill gates and now he's gonna remember you as that guy
watch he's on suicide dude just watch once he gets an island it's over for you
jonah what the
fuck does that even mean i don't even want to begin to dissect that um anyway shout out to sam
altman yeah that was that was pretty bad he came in the space and like half the stage was just like
fuck this guy like he's a grifter if sam altman is a grifter then there's no hope for any of us
um i i did have a call a couple calls with the world coin team though i don't know we were supposed
to do a space but it never happened um maybe i should hit them back up
anyway um look we gotta get to it um shout out to anthony wiener
have you seen those people who like they'll be in your comments like you're a fucking loser grifter
whatever and then like they pull up to their day job at like 7 11 and then but they like had like
they're like the bat like they're like the batman of web 3 thinking they're like sleuthing around
you ever you ever meet those people you ever meet people who are like zach xbt like wannabes
who are like driving in the truck they're like a trucker yelling at you you made fifteen thousand
dollars on a sponsorship you like like fucking it's so so funny like it's insane this this app
this app is basically arkham asylum without like i don't know prison what i did have a guy walk up to
me though in um i think it was nft new york this year and it was uh it was at one of the d gods
events and this guy walked up to me and he's like leap i've been waiting to see you in person ever since
i like heard of you saw you whatever and i just wanted and i'm like oh like great and great to meet
you whatever and he's i just wanted to tell you i hate you and i hate everything that you do and i was
like i it was it was i think the first time ever did you laugh uh i mean like i think we ended up
taking a picture together actually um so like by the end of it was fine but um i have people telling
me that i suck online every day all day but in person that was the dude i have an entire community
that like hates my guts because i didn't like their coin for like a week which one it's a portal coin
yeah i didn't like i'm gonna do another video to see if they should get like if i should do like a
once over to check and see if i really hate the thing but man they made they make me want to hate
it oh god um i'll leave the jupiter a job numbers came out did you check um yeah i didn't really get
that much i haven't traded that much on jupiter like really the only time i've done solana defies when
bonk was was going crazy so i did some trading when when bonk was doing its thing but um
if i wanted to make two dollars in profit i'd just go get a job um look uh let's go to the
hands uh i want to everyone in the space forgets taxes when they do their pnl and then they do need
a job i i honestly think the majority of people are probably not paying their taxes the right like
do you think people are really reporting that they flipped an nft for 0.3
not at all no chance i'm i'm one of the people who do for a recorded space you know like when you
file your taxes and they ask for the digital asset section it's just really like not a lot of
information to ask anyways from like a government standpoint dude no one in government understands
scripts too they have no idea what the tax or any of that they're only going after people
like a hundred million dollars i pay my taxes i guarantee you that they're going people after
people for like under a million dollars i think people really misunderstand how many people actually
work for the irs like we have more irs agents than most countries have like a full military i don't
think you guys should fuck around with the irs personally yeah taxation and stuff but don't
fuck around with the irs for now well the whole government's bloated but they don't do shit like
i mean 95 percent of government employees are just grifting off of taxpayer money well i can give
insight to that i i have an ex who's who's uh family all in that business what a fucking bitch
that's why she's the next that's what don't know okay okay we're not no we're not doing that um
um anyway shout out to george santos uh chris go ahead no i was gonna say uh well i'll just i
wasn't gonna talk about it much but the irs thing they are about four years behind they're they are
four years behind on everything that's why they wanted it which is great because they get like five
to six years to go back and look at your thing before yeah well that's why that's why in about like
so say uh 2021 so say in 2027 you get a letter saying you owe taxes from 2021 that's what happened
actually it's funny i actually got a letter like that uh about three months ago from like literally
shitty literally 2017 it was like hey bro you owe us x amount i was like what the fuck four years
bro she's got ops on you bro she's good dude she told her irs dude i'm telling you right now there's a
guy in the irs it's like been fiending for her and like he knew about her while you were dating
her and she's like oh chris broke with me and this guy fucking dave dave in accounting is like yo
i got you and he calls his fucking squad he's like yo yo fucking w9 his ass i mean we're gonna
fuck this guy over and we're gonna put him we're gonna never did a chick who works the irs lesson
all right all right okay yeah anyway anyway the point being uh is like for most people that don't
date irs chicks uh you know they are years and years behind so example kraken so i also use kraken
and i got the email right i was like and then i was like stressing it i was like oh fuck it was like
yeah we had to turn over all our trading history to them and so and so and so and so and then i was like
all right this this is a bummer i mean i i've reported all the shit i should have reported but
i don't know how they're going to look at stuff and then i looked at the dates and it was like straight
up from 2014 to i think it was like 2019 or something or i was like all right cool
out that was basically bit next time and author hayes took my ass during that time so uh i kind of
kind of broke even so i i don't owe them any money apart from what i fucking self-reported
so i think you know that's a lot of about to do about nothing but what i really wanted to talk
about was what um bad brothers were saying about bitcoin and stuff um was that there's a purpose for
bitcoin in in everything but just the overall infrastructure and everything around it when
it comes to decentralization is and what kills me about maxis is bitcoin can't be everything to
everybody for every purpose it's just not built that way and that's what i find hilarious about
yeah you know like the max kaisers of the world is bro you can't have like you can't have a smart
contract you can't build a dex with freaking programmable programmable swaps on bitcoin the base
layer that just is not built to handle that it would just not function you can't do programmable
swaps on bitcoin you you know the ordinal and the brc20 standard is like this frankenstein thing that
they put together just to be able to construct it you know it's it's like a patch to say that they did it
so you know it's not it's not a bitcoin only world and the problem is until p everybody accepts that
it gets on board with that and goes all right you know yeah it is fundamental it's our base layer it's
a store of value and we price everything off that cool everyone's cool with that but don't say it's
everything for everything and we don't need anything else because say any of that no no i'm not saying you
did i'm not saying you said that exactly what you said no no no i apologize if i if i if i meant it
that way i did not i apologize not you specifically but it's all good it's all good yeah yeah but the
broader narrative like say the the the fanatics like the max kaisers of the world is you you know you're
you're a apostate if you believe in anything other than base bitcoin is is a it's a dead end
i don't know so and you know then they go why isn't bitcoin like mass adopted already it's because
you maxis are so obnoxious it's like if i was to meet you in a bar i i would be like dude this guy
i don't even want to talk to this guy you know i don't know yeah i i get what you're saying um but
no i agree with you just in terms of like you know i'm not a maxi in the terms of um i don't think
other chains shouldn't exist um i think they do do other things well i'm just saying the ultimate you
know the ultimate source of value our ultimate money if it doesn't operate still on the first
principles of bitcoin which is that decentralization that freedom to transact that freedom to hold your
own money to beat your own bank then at that point we've lost the plot yeah well it's a football team
right it's a football team everyone plays the role from the corner to the safety to the quarterback
to the defensive defensive lineman everyone has a role and no one succeeds in isolation that's
the way i look at it when it comes to crypto and where we all we all fit in bitcoin bitcoin can be
the quarterback hell yeah bitcoin beat can be bill belichick for all i care you know but you know
there there's a place for a safety there's a place for a corner that's not bitcoin for example
yeah my point was more like if we have those other things but if we have to rely on intermediaries and in
the sense of that we're going to have censoring of transactions things like that then if we're not
if we don't have those first principles of bitcoin for those basic things for well here's the thing
being able to do agreements and i agree agreed well here's the thing about crypto is first principles
is it's decentralized so if it's proof of work over it's proof of a stake over it's proof of history for
solana or any other consensus mechanism that is invented right as long as there is a consensus that
is decentralized right and how it's constructed and that there isn't a single party involved however
that's designed then it's not like a company running the show it just has to be properly built
and then reinforced through the tokenomics and how it's designed right um and it's an evolution and
sometimes something that starts off as a multi-sig like a l2 on ethereum over time becomes a truly
decentralized standalone blockchain as it separates and you just have to give it time and these things
don't happen overnight it's an evolution so you know as i said in an industry we have to be patient
but we can't be like freaking like the salem witch trials and immediately she's a witch because that guy
likes arbitrium or solana or cardano or whatever it's like holy shit give some time bro that's my
thoughts i agree with that go ahead alpha and then we'll jump to cp so i think like ethereum like kind
of has to be compared to cardano and it's so messed up to to say this like ditto said like oh look at the
infrastructure when you go to like fidelity and like use those uh that infrastructure it's like
kind of bad and like ethereum and cardano offer like secure levels at like at an efficient rate like
compared to fidelity and uh like all these uh platforms so like essentially ethereum and solana are
are two different things in in the same categories i think solana is more for gaming uh higher fast
transactions venmo ish and then and if you want to like invest and save or like it's storage i i would
take cardano and ethereum as those type of blockchains to do those type of uh interactions so like in this
conversation i think ethereum is more comparable to cardano and their roadmaps are very similar
um um and ethereum was kind of a little bit behind from integrating to proof of stake um uh while
cardano did that a little bit earlier uh but the like the thing that ethereum uh has is just a lot more
users uh and a little bit and a lot more liquidity but like in the big picture the big like the
conversation is like ethereum versus cardano and then solana versus a lot of like nothing else uh solana
is like uh is like one in its own it's like it's different
um cp what do you think uh yeah i think uh you know i think there's like two paths to like mainstream
adoption of bitcoin and the first would be um you know bitcoin itself starts acting more well it's got
to become less volatile normies see what happens when they watch the news and you know it it dips
75 percent in four fucking days and they don't want to put their money in that they're fucking terrified
of that um and it's going to be volatile by design because it's a disruptor i mean it's disrupting the
financial system and you know most normies out there used to just putting a portion of their paycheck
into 401ks they don't understand the same exact shit happens in trad fi we go through a huge
market correction every 10 or 12 years or so you know people that have been saving their whole lives
get wiped and they end up you know driving a fucking school bus through retirement you know to make ends
meet um and and people are okay with that because that's just what the system has been their entire
lives so you know until bitcoin little by little becomes less volatile um i think you won't really
see mass adoption uh to that end on the other side i think mass adoption can come uh from another chain
achieving mass adoption and then people that are using that you know do what i think most of us in web
three do is when we make decent profits on something we usually pump into bitcoin i mean
that's what most people in crypto do so if you can onboard normies into something else uh and then
they make some profits odds are they're going to put it in bitcoin as a store of value i think uh most
people in web three view bitcoin as the ultimate store of value um where where yeah and when people uh
you know that come in or that are onboarded into web three and the only way that's going to happen is
is with a good user experience um and that's that's definitely not going to happen on ethereum
um most people you know i've probably onboarded 15 to 20 people to web three just total
normies that didn't know anything about it and none of them ever put in more than like 100 bucks
so imagine you go in you put in 100 bucks you go to do your first first transaction on eth and the gas
is 20 fucking dollars only an idiot would fucking pay that so it's not a recipe for mass adoption um so
i think it'll happen on a different chain i think the obvious leader right now is solana uh it's got
everything a normie could want to onboard into crypto and you know is mass adoption in the room
right now but what's that i think i think what you're what you're missing here is that it doesn't
have to be just one chain that makes it to mass adoption yeah well i think well i think that one
change one chain has to win and then the rest not necessarily bro like look at international business
it's thousands of companies doing thousands of things like what about products well right but it
hasn't worked like the future is going to be multi-chain like there's going to be teslos that's
running certain products and and and and and if like teslos is working with deloitte and other
companies to like build back-end infrastructure that things are going to be running on blockchain
on these chains that we're talking about today that you don't even necessarily see and what you
right well that well not necessarily seeing isn't that the opposite of mass adoption that is what
it's no it's you're talking about corporations using it to build their back-end infrastructure
whereas i'm saying oh how do we bring in how do we bring in the most retail spending the most
retail dollars the answer to that in the ecosystem i got it i know the answer the answer well yes but no
the answer is who gives a fuck about the chain just make a product make a fucking shoe like artifact or
go make a fucking game or go make a fucking ski resort and if the chain fucking shuts down guess
what you can do you can bridge it to another chain because we have layer zero yeah so nobody gives a
shit jonah jonah makes the best point is the future of web3 is daps that are actually hybrid daps they're
actually cross-chain and the states live on multiple chains so there'll be states on and interfaces on
multiple chains and so it doesn't matter if it's avalanche it doesn't matter if it's cardano it doesn't
matter if it's solana it doesn't matter it's say etc etc there'll be multiple interfaces there'll be
states on different states of the dap or different chains depending on the requirements and so the
the ui might be on i don't know let's just say it's a polka dot it's a polka dot chain but it requires some
zk proof work or some privacy element and that piece of the state exists on i don't know zk sync
whatever doesn't matter and the point is that this dap straddles a bunch of chains and the user doesn't
care the user gets what they want but the back end is on multiple chains and i think that's the future
is the daps which interfaces with the customer or straddles a bunch of chains on the back end
the future is aws and azure well i don't think so i think aws there there is decentralized options
to aws wait until amazon releases their blockchain because it is coming well sure but then it's just
aws under a different name right no it's gonna be saying it's just gonna be called aws well yeah
aws but it requires validators it requires stakers or you don't think there'll be stakers you bro
you invite amazon you listen to this invite me to your staking node system i'll buy a node
no problem happy to stake into the amazon ecosystem happy to do it
dude that's gonna have like i got two it's and blackrock's gonna own five of them yeah
dude everyone's web three we're not web three we're in web 2.3 i'll see you and i'll see you
at web three in like 10 years bro what everyone's talking about self-sovereignty when they're on a
centralized app owned by a guy who makes cyber trucks all right calm down like deleting that
well well i don't disagree yeah i mean your point is very valid it's the reality you're right it is
the reality so i mean you're speaking the truth it i mean i'm not gonna argue that you are speaking
the truth i just think like people want number to go up and then like they're scared to even normal
people want number to go up i have a neighbor like i think they're scared to like admit the fact that
bitcoin is like the closest thing or the decentralized network that everyone kind of wants to have but they're
don't want to invest it because it's the less margins but you could be shocked if you actually
just invest in it and that's like what it is i think like who said it earlier like number token price
it like makes people kind of have euphoric mindset in their mind they're like oh this is going to go from
uh 30 cents to ten dollars that's well yeah i i don't want to put like words in jonah's mouth and
i may be completely off but to jonah's point is like well just words just words jonah okay um go
ahead chris yeah i was i was gonna say everyone wants everyone like to jonah's point was everyone
wants decentralization everyone's what two uh well 3.0 but what we really have is 2.3
but to opa's point is the biggest culprits are the fucking maxis the bitcoin maxis because you know
it's like they're like again to my last point oh every shit corner is like the devil but larry fink
and blackrock thank god this is general adoption and oh the sovereign wealth funds and we're now legal
tenor and x y and z is like you motherfuckers is like you've literally sold out and so it's like
is it really decentralization if everybody the big companies own it no
so i'll tell you where we're at right yeah but how do they own it like it's not like you know
fucking black you know yeah you can still build everything you're building well found foundry and
apple if if foundry and apple who by the way the big biggest shareholder is blackrock
right of foundry and pool and by the way wuhan is the the guy that runs the virus
yeah wuhan he big on cash guy right back in 2017 big on cash guy he is uh the guy that runs
the ampoule and you got foundry and riot those three entities alone don't don't tell me and everyone's
go oh well you know a miner can like leave from a mine pool okay yeah after the fact if like two of
those entities collude and decide to do something yeah you can leave the mine pool after they do
whatever they do not before unless you're a psychic so is that really permissionless and trustless not
really so here's the stages we're in chris a few years ago crypto was in its emo stage
yeah or the libertarian stage now crypto is going to college and all of a sudden it leaves it leaves
their parents house and it's like i'm an adult i don't need my parents i can be my own network and then
what happens is it goes to college it gets a bad ex-boyfriend you know maybe gets a little drug
addiction here every night gets yeah gets drunk you know has bad grades it seemed like it's about
to graduate right and now it's you know it's got a job at some it's fucking working at buzzfeed you
know making 30 000 a year in the city right making ends meet maybe night lighting as a stripper right
it's getting really hard right and all of a sudden bitcoin and crypto it's like maybe i should visit my
parents right let's just see how they're doing and so now we're going to the stage where
you know you worked at buzzfeed ai took it over your job you know you lost your job you went back
home to see your mom mom goes i'll let you stay in the house for like a month that month turns into
five and then a year okay but eventually eventually crypto figures out what it really wants to do in
life and crypto meets a you know a nice boy right at the local coffee shop and then it and then it evolves
but uh it's got another 10 years uh before it does that it's a good analogy do they have a kid too
soon or too late yeah it's called uh it's called ai or like a quantum fort or something like that
well on that note look we'll go to the hands uh before we do reset the space welcome everybody to
eat sucks though i am so confused on where this conversation has gone uh if you're enjoying the
conversation click that pin tweet at the top or the button in the bottom right hand corner and give
it a like comment or a retweet for every like that you give to the space um eat gas fees go down just
a little bit so we're gonna go over to and also you want to know something the most shocking thing
only one thing has been pinned up today normally it's like 400 things everyone's pinning up everything
is it's just kind of interesting to see uh look we'll go over to snowflake snowflake what do you think
about this does eat suck actually no uh it actually has a lot of developments like a lot a lot a lot
you know uh on this chain it's a real chain right and i always say like when you think about bitcoin
like you feel okay this actual like chain block after block one ledger closes another ledger opens
with the ethereum like the formula is like snowflake they all like connected you know between each other
and usually like every real chain the problem with bitcoin is gas the other problem is like
you can't really like freeze metadata on it you can like record the records so like if somebody says
like oh i'm minting these images on bitcoin like no you're not unless they're like with the symbols
you know uh and letters and like actual information just recorded in the form of like terminal code like
like like you do like in a terminal code in your computer right uh so now it's not there like leave
me alone you know and all the issue like if you try to sell something you need to kind of like
uh a complicated system to do so uh it's it's not really impressive at all and we all know like more than 50
percent um of bitcoin miners were in china before a couple years ago but after the crypto ban and like
cracked down on miners as well as like uh prohibiting uh any person who like nationality of china
there to uh basically you know do anything with their fungible tokens like think about it there was
like such a big crash and everybody's thinking why did bitcoin crash why is this why that nobody's looking
outside the twitter feels like sometimes you know they're just like oh why did that happen they all ask
questions but not really looking at the news and geopolitical issues um and low like half of the
miners maybe like even more like don't know exact exact percentage but like everybody's saying official
news like even forbes like saying like that this is what happened to the bitcoin and like all those
miners like moving out some of them moving to united states even they can't afford it you know like
uh to do so unless like everything was like taken or something else happened you know they just really
lost all investors you know and needed to give money back it's it's really like complicated issue
and you know like and one of the reasons like people like don't mind bitcoin because it's not so good for
the planet like unless you do it from a volcano like in some latin countries you know what i mean or like
uh iceland uh so i i support those that's cool but again like thinking every bitcoin mines like
you're supporting some centralized bank like it's another thing that people are discussing
and also there's not much developing going on on that chain uh a lot of development on the theorem because
like it just allows to do so so much you know gas is lower and it's just like amazing chain and you think
about us layer two optimism like uh you know all the test chains like that you can kind of connect and
do like test things before deploying on ethereum like think about sepholia think about go early think
about like other test chains uh you know like parallelly running like similar to ethereum chain and think
about okay games like gamestop right like they did their own layer two you know and some people did very
well with like avatars and like 3d things and vrs so yeah it's it's very interesting like i have a
question for you what do you think about uh like so you were talking about optimism what do you think
about like the fragmentation of like layer two on ethereum listen like it depends on the layer two
and i feel like listen there is actual chains that have the fragmented chain so those fragmentations
definitely are more exposed to different forks and hacks uh so it's interesting but listen layer two
right now on ethereum they have a lot of hackathons a lot of hackathons which is great
so i think to alfa's point it wasn't about the hacking it's about the fragmentation of liquidity
it's about the yeah a bit above it's about the vampiric relationship about l2's ethereum because when it
comes to economic activity and reciprocity is that layer twos suck liquidity layer twos suck users out of
the base layer but what does the l2 give back to ethereum and ethereum general because the every l2 has
its own governance token every l2 has its own economic activity but it doesn't give it back to
ethereum based layer every time you pay gas partially gas is burned like you need to think
about this but if you want to go deep like think about gaming do you want to really pay
thirty dollars to pick up the skin in the game no you're not what why only i don't know just to
fucking let people know i'm rich yeah no like i listen i played uh several games and like one of
them really like like some of the things that get automatically like burned and destroyed by the
time of the tournament but like some of them uh you actually can keep uh and like they have some
sponsorship from different chains like oil tools like and you can keep these tokens and i think it's
cool you can onboard you know folks like give them opportunity to be like waters or participants or like
like submit something for proposal or win something you know once they have those tokens like imagine
going to the game you pick up op token right it means through the l2 optimism so it uses the polygon
but it officially appears on your main net in ethereum so what happens now you have opportunity to
participate so like you go you pick up the e-point it's means it appears on your wallet you know but it
uses less gas like because it would be ridiculous to use like 20 of gas for a token that costs a couple
dollars right dude try try and explain this to some rando you meet at a bar one night you're like
trying to onboard them and you're trying to explain this you'll be surprised if you're
you're explaining to me and i've been in fuck dude i had a mount gox account in 2013
when people talk to me about eth these days i'm like what the fuck are you talking about this is
completely insane so here's the thing is that ethereum holder gets nearly no benefit from any
activity that happens on optimism arbitrarism matic especially matic they get an ethereum holder
receives no benefit whatsoever from activity that happens on matic you actually you actually lose ethereum
from holding ethereum if you're not staking it there theoretically yes through inflation and other
things yes correct so so the way like there is interesting point like the way you can actually make
ethereum really go up if you remove it from circulation meaning you put it in your own private ledger
and that private ledger can be actual ledger like that you
that you that you like um you know basically created like computer that you need to use like
non non hot computer like mobile phone some people do that you can use you know some cards like tantum
cards and like just literally have it there like the actual like ledgers meaning nano wherever like but
people don't really like them much especially ogs they're really not into it i don't know why it's so
popular like with folks right now um and like think about hey where can i actually store the crypto so
if you remove it from exchange then nobody can like see it there and now it's more scarce right same like
when it's like it's almost like it was burnt but it wasn't you have it that's what's like the proof of
stake uh supposed to do to ethereum right yeah like more and more and more ethereum is burned uh at a quicker
rate um so like yeah yeah yeah and another thing like if you do have it on the hot device if you do
have it on some exchange don't just freaking have it you know like do something with it you know like
depending of your like qualifications or you know like what you actually can do like don't go risky
like just do what is like possible for you legally you know and all of those things like i mean like
don't go like deep i'm not telling you go crazy you know i'm i'm not telling you go liquid farming like
100 loss 100 gain like depending on what happens you know don't go like i i do like kind of like um
two-day staking things you know and like automatic staking but at the same time i have it every time i
have uh i barely do like 30 days or 60 days like i do like 90 days staking uh you know opportunities
with guarantees returned like i don't want something to be lost or something happened we lost it because
it was a pair like like give me a break and i don't like functionalization on two types of tokens i'm not
the fan of that well that but you you made your part you kind of made my point is that you have to go to
work you have to be creative and you have to find solutions to to stay at least on par or slightly ahead
of your initial position regardless of what's happening on l2 which is actually counter countering
your activities like i said like optimism is sucking liquidity from your base investment
arbitrum is sucking low liquidity and users from your ethereum and so you are having to get super
creative just to stay on pace right um on the base layer when the when these l2s use you at least in
some degree to ping transactions or you know semi-validate them not probably not in the entirety so it's
um it's um it's not a reciprocal one-on-one relationship and that's going to be the
the biggest problem for ethereum to fix is how to make it like a fair relationship where there's
fair economic activity and the base layer isn't just like being sucked dry like vampirically
well aren't we ignoring the fact here too that like bitcoin can do all this as well like bitcoin
has l2s they haven't gotten mass adoption yet probably because of you know you honestly ethereum
did a great job onboarding some people into web 3 in 2020 and 2021 however bitcoin can literally do all
the same shit you can apply the same theory to bitcoin and it can do all the same shit you can build
l2s on bitcoin there are there are l2s popping up i think there's uh wait when did bitcoin get smart
contracts remember well well you can run i mean uh stacks run smart contracts on bitcoin right now
it hasn't really gained mass adoption because of exactly what uh chris was saying about bitcoin maxis
because the you know the user base on bitcoin has been for a long time maxis uh as adoption grows
though i think you start to see more people on board into the l2s and stacks on bitcoin uh has an
upgrade coming in the next month or two uh i think it's a nakamoto upgrade which is gonna you know give
them the ability for instant finality and already the fees are similar to the l2s on ethereum so if
you if you're looking for a store of value and you're also looking to participate in smart contracts
and d5 and that sort of thing and that's ethereum's entire argument for its use case if bitcoin can already
do that like what's the use case for ethereum at that can i tell you especially you have especially when
you can tell you yeah absolutely yeah go ahead mushrooms
i agree i personally agree 100 i like yeah i'm on board with mushrooms oh he's the magic variety all of them
wait hold on i can't leave i come back let's go back all right we got we got to get this back on
track do we i don't think we were ever wait wait oh jonah jonah guess what game i'm playing today
is it nikki no no no no i no no i i got i hit the elden ring bug and then i got like way too deep
okay what are you playing today well today i downloaded jedi survivor it's pretty good
did they fix the frame yeah yeah yeah they fixed all that in the latest update and it's it's it's
actually quite quite yeah it's it's a good game i have it on i have it on hard mode easy like
regular mode is too easy but hard mode is pretty hard it's just star wars elden ring
yeah it's a total copycat it seems like everybody just copied from software
yeah because from yeah that's how gaming works
they may you you invent a new game design and everywhere every game it's so crazy how everybody
just copies each other anyway um yeah battle royale and now this well hey real quick because i'm super
super selfish right now i have a six-year-old i want to buy him a pf uh playstation 5 what is a
good starter game to get him gaming spider-man oh no buy him a resident evil don't buy him
or like atari the new release of atari wait wait wait um does he like sports at all yeah he loves
sports he loves the driving games okay so yeah well oh driving game gran turismo 7 gta probably
turbo car next year um
for a six year old it's not too advanced fifa get fifa or whatever they call it now
fourth football club rocket league that's too violent no but like but like jonah will agree with me
aside from a six-year-old if you haven't played elden ring you basically have not lived on earth
all right yeah six-year-old is not gonna play yeah no no not well if you haven't played you have
not lived that's because elven ring is not even a game it's like one giant artwork well it's like
the fidenzas or whatever of like gaming well so jonah do you know a company called backbone
yeah that's for the mobile device yes yes so my friend started backbone he gave me like a full full
scope like he stayed at my place during f1 and obviously they're killing it um they have a lot of
competition but they were i know they're killing it because they have a big installation in the best
buy stores yeah i mean their price point is just so is so reasonable it's also just easy to use it's
yeah it's less than 100 bucks anyone can plug it into their phone you don't have to buy a big console
anyway turn your phone into a switch he's yeah he's killed he's sort of killing it but he was saying
it makes you smarter sorry go on file um his name is mneet he started he started back phone i think it's
pretty genius idea and we just sort of became friends through a mutual investment banker friend
and then he stayed with me during f1 and he was sort of telling me that like jonah knows that i i
basically like got on this deep gaming dive having not played video games for like 15 years i like
rediscovered the beauty of video games since like basically just since july and um the reason why the
reason why i brought up elden ring is like you could totally imagine eld like if elden ring existed
in crypto and you could trade items and maybe item drop rates were even more rare and like maybe it
was like 0.1 percent of the time they showed up and you could trade in that way i mean the multiplayer
is just absolutely brilliant they have no incentive to make it crypto but if a quality game like elden
ring existed in crypto it would be so game over out of the question because there's so many people that
just like fucking pay for the cheat code fucking item farms for like hundreds of dollars to get
the free i gotta show you some cool stuff we're doing because like uh i don't just make video like
we've been working on some stuff and i've been doing some stuff uh secretly with improbable we did
a test uh last month but oh sick dude like i'll i'll show you some of this stuff but also on a tech
side and it's still very early but i've been working on a video game review blockchain protocol
so the idea is that you you use a weighted yeah that's cool you use a weighted gas fee to change
to to create verified reviewers so basically i it's like a product hunt for web3 games using like a tier
list but it uses the chain in order to verify uh or for for you to solidify reviews
jonah did you play big times like remind remind me yeah it's it's okay it needs a lot of work
yeah it does but i love the art they're releasing and i loved like and before the games they have
some testings and stuff and the artwork is awesome like it's just building vr 3d animation music you know
whoever like they created like the artist who did the music is awesome and speaking about um artists like
if anybody listening and they're very good artists or you believe like you can do something unique
optimism this week they have a competition for art with rewards uh so you can like apply your arts
like you can submit your art so yeah just let me know out there and portals metaverse they partnered
with atari uh i already like knew that but now it's like official and they're gonna do the runner like
little new game they did um they use like a vr avatar very cute and you can like gain rewards so
it's gonna be happening soon when's the last time atari put out something good dude atari has put out
like 12 different nft like so many different nft collections there was like they have tried web3
for three years straight and no it's a known thing in in every industry of atari it's called the atari curse
i know because we looked at acquiring some of its ip to do something in vegas many years ago uh well
i'll tell you the idea we wanted to build a casino using the atari brand to build uh a gamified gaming
casino in vegas and uh it just was like too ridiculous it wasn't a money issue it was like
like the atari curse is literally like anyone who touches or owns atari like somehow something goes
wrong it's like known in the business world the atari i'm pretty sure didn't they like there was
somebody that acquired the license to create all these different atari hotels that would be crypto
powered yep i remember when that because atari was right before i got into like right before i got
to defy we were involved in that interesting they partnered with like some uh like uh company that
was given giveaways like if you like top 100 and i was like top 100 and i never get a giveaway and when
i was asking like i even emailed them there was like no response i'm like what so atari after like did
its own giveaway like you can like play uh you know the old games like online and connecting wallets
and i played their drop on during nyc new york which is like pixelated game and there was free
updates and it was like very cute you like find tokens and you kill stuff and yes it's it's like
difficult to get there so like they make it complicated you know they make like only the
person who really wants get in and figure out how it works and they did also uh thing with portals but
they did kind of their own thing and you need to find the secret cause and you go like into VR
mod like it's it's really complicated and this takes a lot of time to do anything so you really
need to have time for this there was also the atari console that they released to game stop like a
very small amount oh it was like a just a bullshit collector's item it didn't sell though it made money
it i'm just like so bearish on anything atari like and maybe i'm biased i'm not it's just a curse
you said what i'm actually not the ip is fantastic the problem is it's it's cursed
like i'm telling you like what good atari games existed like like hold on just hold on
it's you don't understand it's because you're young like me right so you don't understand that
everyone who has money and is older remembers getting an atari they don't like you and i remember
nintendo but the class before us remembers atari and so it's like one of the best ips you could acquire
from a nostalgia perspective to access those older gen x whatever dollars which is why i was so
interested in this idea of going into the casino space because like the final game every adult plays
is like the vegas game because you you eventually you're you either don't feel like playing video
games anymore as you as you age out or you just get busy with life and you end up wanting to play
these higher risk games because you have more money so it was a perfect idea the problem is that
there is a lot of greedy people between like you don't understand like ip deals for that is very
complicated because it's actually several entities that hold those rights and also the thing that you
don't know is that atari has the name but its asset like the assets behind it are dog shit because
they've already licensed those or sold those assets to like other companies over the course of its
ownership so i feel like i feel like there's also kind of division like when you look at the g atari
people they're very like protecting they don't want to know anything about work free like at all
like at all they just like oh i might like mine some bitcoin song and i don't want to learn they like
they're really like like okay they're like endemic to their web two frame thing like to their like
hard you know hardware thing and that's it you know that's they don't even don't play like web two
games like the hardware thing and when you think about what the atari doing like in web free like the
new folks yeah like me nintendo girl right like it it takes me like extra time to like go deep into things
was it so i'm looking at um the atari stock right now and i remember i bought it i'm like i think
it was i'm gonna try to find the exact point i bought it it was somewhere in the 30 cent range
maybe you just bought coinbase man just this was dude this was don't fake that's all
jonah i bought coinbase on ipo day at over four hundred dollars i'm saying yeah but you should
dca'd while the bear market was going on because dca'd for three years like it yeah that's guess
what like in vc you don't really see your money back for like five ten years like that's considered
good i'm not a vc i was the best decision i ever did was to exit the stock market completely and go
all in on crypto in 2021 that was that was hands down the best decision i ever made but um i sold because
you can actually you can see on the chart it went up to over a dollar and i think that's when i sold
some um and that's when they announced all their web3 stuff and everything and then it's just been down
ever since it's 10 cents right now that's because they partnered with a company that treated their ip
like dog shit and was very grifty and that company raised a lot of money from andresen and
we haven't heard from them in a long time let's be honest who hasn't raised money from andresen though
that's not a fucking good answer wait what company is that it was uh it used to be called republic
realm it was like that real of a real estate metaverse thing
you remember that that was like during the 2021 bull they raised like a shit ton of money
it wasn't just andresen and it was just a notable raise um i was working 10 hours a day i didn't
have time but are we bullish on it's not called realm anymore they changed the name to something
else i forgot but they i think they had a contract with artari and they did a thing with them and it
was just dog shit what about um are we bullish on metaverse real estate agents remember if there
were people who were talking about that surreal estate baby did you remember a good joke did you
remember those people that were like literally selling web to not even the links like they they
basically you go to the web to page connect the wallet send the money and after like the little
square appears hey your virtual space is here we're creating metaverse you can put your art there
and it's literally like made in photoshop panels 2d panels like with the basic freaking image
you know when you go inside but it's like just uh just you know like a doom style recording you know
it's not actual metaverse it's not actual 3d or vr it's just like 2d freaking panels moving around
while you're supposedly walking around and there i saw so many stuff exactly like this naming themselves
metaverses selling space on the panel to like advertise your art and it's like just give me a
freaking break you know stop like milking people just because somebody don't know and it's just upsetting
it's very that reminds me of um back in like 2021 like a huge roadmap item for a lot of these uh
projects would be we have a billboard in new york city and whenever this billboard with this fabled
billboard for whatever token or project would come out people i mean the price would pump everything
would go crazy but people started to realize well you don't actually have to go get an actual
billboard you could just photoshop an image of the of whatever your tokens logo is on a
billboard in a picture of new york and not one person would go verify if it was real and also
i saw it's also not even that somebody else did the same like saying oh become a new york let's be on
the panel who verifies you and freaking nfc on this panel like seriously unless you're standing in
freaking square you you know you there's a qr code you can scan and put your freaking nft there
in the big billboard if you want to put the letters you know like unless you freaking stand there and
put this thing in that moment you pay for that moment you know like there is no way to like verifying
it and i saw like people selling saying oh we're gonna put them on digital panels you're gonna be
there and they're literally just milking money zero free ethereum zero like uh two ethereum it's it's so
like upsetting well welcome to crypto unfortunately um i feel like most of the stuff here is used to
just milk us like we're a bunch of cows go ahead cp oh god yeah i just wanted to uh i just want to
ask jonah a question there was a space a couple nights ago and there was like a little discussion
about gta6 and people were talking about crypto involved no they're not putting crypto in gta6
well no i'm not like no listen it would be bitcoin okay anyway it'd be bitcoin atms but yeah do you guys
um uh well yeah you you made the point that the real money on gta6 is going to be in running your own
server and i was wondering because i'm not like technically sound and any of that kind of
shit but like could you integrate crypto into your own server they'll brick you
so you technically yes but they'll brick you
i mean could you run it like can you run it in a country where it's like
put in a 24 character hash on a controller that's for sure bro
huh what i didn't i didn't i didn't hear you said what about the hash on the controller
typing it in that would be awful oh no no i mean like so so actually you can put satoshis in games
like that's already being done right now so zebedee which is on bitcoin they're a payment solution
service you can earn a technically earn you can win satoshis in a game called split gate which is
really it's an awesome game but it's not that popular anymore um web 2 game it's like halo meets
portal it's awesome um yeah it's like earning crypto in a game is not the hard part it's like
it's the legal aspect and you know um take two interactive already is invested in web3
they uh invested in a wallet company like two years ago called sequence i think it was sequence
and um so that like if they ever do something like it'll be a custodial wallet but this whole
idea of crypto and gta 6 like you have to understand from their perspective it cost them probably two
billion dollars to make this game and market it they have to probably make 10 billion to consider it a win
right because of the time spent to make the game they connect to bitcoin is what he's telling you
folks and and like for them you have to understand that most gamers still don't care for this space
yet there's no way anyone at the executive level who is making you know a hundred million whatever it
is in salary like some insane god level amount of money in salary is going to risk their job for a
couple of twitter dgens who want the idea of crypto in a game like they're not going to do it maybe
in like year four or five of the launch where they're like okay now we need to add more live
live service rails right and they'll build it into the game over time but like there's no way they put
it in the game for at least the first year to two years if if that just because they're not going to
take that kind of risk like honestly none of this shit really fucking matters in respects to like
like uh i would say there's so many crazy dark markets on let's say like uh minecraft or robolux
or whatever for like crypto that are like like hundreds of thousands of dollars i know people
who've run even gta servers that are exactly uh like you know gta5 um that are i just don't see any
cons i just don't see any cons for them adding like bitcoin transactions or like any payments
like that because like stripe could be easy integrated into the game i mean just like i really
we're kind of looking at it like a point where
we're good what happened did they both rag i guess we're both rugged literally
okay so like speaking about the games like in general like feel like web 2 or web 3 and some
saying oh i can bridge web 2 to web 2.5 like dude do you know what you're talking about how are you
gonna bridge the game that's already done has a web 2 like gamers on playstation or like somewhere
else you're gonna bridge into a free like did you develop some game that have like any opportunity
connecting like wallets like doing like like have contracts the games have no contracts you cannot
bridge those gamers to web 3 with this game like you know they like do some basics like learning or
something you know like atari like not not bridging ping pong like gamers to web 3 from the freaking
atari station 910 they're not doing it you know like you have to have a basic contract on the blockchain
for the game like in order to use any fungible or non-fungible tokens within the game you know so unless
you do builds like i don't care you have thousands of followers or any like twitch channel like millions
of followers you ain't bridging nobody to web 3 dude you know unfortunately well speaking of um i just
don't care about i i just don't care about mass adopting or bridging people on the web 3 it's just like
the thing i could not give a shit about like i don't know for like i work in gaming everything i do is
entertainment first uh like the finances is all there like right all the earn shit like that's
all there but it's just like i don't care and i and i hear it in every space like how do we mess
it down people like well the first thing you need to do is shut the fuck up the second thing you need
to do is go make something and the third thing you need to do is be cool why are you telling me to
shut the fuck up bro come on you already messed up bro you you're doing like
understand edc shit like you're doing freaking terminal from your computer at least like one
something like do something like it's not so difficult to learn but don't show me that you
can do something when you physically cannot possibly do that speaking of um mass adopting you know i've
always been a man of the people um putting myself last in the in the name of web 3 in the community
uh so we're starting the kick grind again and i know this is about one hour earlier than i typically
close my space but i promised that i was going to stream like i was like starting streaming at 3 30
in the morning every night what are you gonna play um so i have two games ready to play tonight
um one of them is resident evil 2 and the other one is this web 3 game called cambria that deez was
telling me about yeah cambria is cool and um but this one is like gambling i like you play it there i
played it very very early before it was released publicly and i thought it was cool it's it's
definitely a gambling game wagering game not gambling what's the deal going on here with uh kick like
are you telling me that uh x is not giving you the stream revenue or what what's the deal here sir
why why kick well i'm doing both right uh because elon told me i was trying to fuck like okay so i gotta
ask you this is a serious question and everyone in the audience i'm sure could ask along do you use an
rtmp server or how do you like uh get like your best setting where you're trying to give multiple
feeds out so everyone can have the best experience put the raspberry pi you can use something called
restream.io yeah so okay right now i'm very basic with it i'm literally just streaming on kick and i
have the twitter space up so you can listen to the twitter space in the stream and then also chat in the
chat um i've thought about using restream to also stream to twitter but i just don't see the
i honestly don't see the purpose like i want i want the viewers to be on kick because it's a much
better experience for them to be able to chat and interact with each other that twitter video
streaming sucks like you have to be in the stream if you try to surf twitter at the same time it'll
just close this like it it's the dumbest design in the entire world so until that improves i'm just
ignoring that it's probably still periscope yeah it's a it's not um so we're averaging like 30 we are we
had like 30 viewers all night last night which was nice all of web three yeah and web all of web
three let's go well we'll hold up here's the thing if we get like look nobody has to come to the stream
if they don't want to i'm gonna just be chilling out on the stream having a glass of wine and playing
some games and maybe playing cambria and losing like you need to play lethal company oh i might i
could play whatever um by the way well you need friends to play lethal company so not tonight but you
need to play lethal company it's so much fun um no i'm totally down to play it's like the ball there's
three man over everything i'm sorry dnd guys let's go so so yeah this is my thought process on it um
obviously like just to be 100 transparent like kick can provide revenue that that x can't like
it just like be transparent like you know you can get subs and stuff on kick um the second thing
is the video aspect is really fun like the last two nights we've been just surfing through
old like 2020 2021 polygon nfts like looking at a bunch of random shit like it's just like fun to
look at stuff with people and just enjoy nfts on the visual side like we talk about it in the space
but we don't actually look at them together it's fun to stop tyler's sleep sell a blau tell them i
agree with sleep totally like and i feel like definitely just because of the structure that twitch and twitter
do not create the community like it does not create the community that can it's just different
because like i'll give you a couple examples um i mean we've had legitimate friendships and
business relationships develop within our kickstream when we were streaming earlier this year because
people can actually interact in a twitter space at maximum nine or ten people can interact and yes you
can throw emojis and put comments in the comment section but it's so one-sided with the twitter with the
streaming you can literally just chat with each other in the chat and then people can get like
badges and rewards and comment on stuff in real time much much faster than it is in a twitter in an
x space and um i honestly just like it's like tiktok is what you're saying it's got a cleaner
interface i wouldn't say it's like tiktok um but i also think well that is tiktok's fucking you know
tutelage to us the microtransaction you know shared screening experience i mean maybe i mean look
the way i look at it is also from discoverability um we've tapped in this is the honest truth we've
tapped into most web3 people that want to listen to web3 content for spaces that's just the truth
until more people come into the space like that's it like on a good night you can do five
to six hundred people concurrent if something really viral is going on you can push over a thousand but
for the most part like unless you're talking about politics or something like that you're kind of capped
um right now i think that'll change i would i would actually argue that but i think that's just
because not enough people are looking at like the defy shit that's going on because i just you know
over a nudge look over the shoulder and see so much crazy shit going on every day but i think that
it's very unorganized and i think some would have to go into telegram and actually like
wait tell me tell me some tell me some crazy defy shit that i've been missing out on oh even the
grok thing man i fucking bro i don't know no i'm being i'm being dead serious like i'm so out of the
loop so tell me me too i'm super dead out loop i literally threw a thousand dollars in the grok at
like i don't even know it was like a hundred hundred k market cap or some bullshit and like
it went to 100 million or something like it was it was insane so like things are still going off
retarded in crypto and all on the back end i don't trust you mfers that are finding these coins at a
100 km market cap like what that like no he's telling you the truth no i believe he got in at
100k market cap what about go fuck yourself man um you like the new mutant what well yeah this is
why we can't have nice things folks anyways going forward so
like dump like a four hundred thousand dollar clip in one hit today on i have no idea i haven't
even looked at the chart bro i literally tossed a thousand bucks in didn't give a fuck had the
pepe dev dm me about some other stuff and i was like all right cool throw some money in just just
why not you know what at the end of the day i don't honestly it's better it's better than the casino
it's more exactly and it's better i can play craps down at the casino or i can play
fucking crypto roulette with all my best friends and how to see who fucks up first wait crap so are you
like you have to be if you put if you put a thousand it at a hundred k market cap you're up
millions i've got right yeah are you gonna pay taxes on those millions i mean that's the beauty
of crypto i guess right one day the lost his keys lost his keys in a tragic boating accident he lost
the letter that's what one person said the other day it was funny uh hey what do you think about all
this like groups kind of like creating gamers and trying to do streams from them and all of that
like some of them like do it professionally like finish uh you know folks like they have a couple
great companies really you know going deep but i see like some american ones like face clan it's all
about just you know i don't know get more clicks on youtube or something they even let the girl shave
her head i'm like i was shocked i'm like i'm not ever watch anything with them after that i think
that you know black mirror has really told us a lot about what the future is going to be and you just
explained it to us you know what i mean like this is the reality bro like it's gonna be you know kill
or be killed you know click for click like throw for throw ai is now in the loop like this whole game
becomes a lot more incredibly you know expenditure based on who you are and what you want to do so like
it's gonna be very interesting in the next few years i could say that's all i can say
and most definitely and i hope everybody makes a ton of money like all jokes aside there are going to
be a lot of opportunities that are coming um in one form i mean there's just everywhere there's
opportunities everywhere also yo bitcoin's almost 40k and who knew that i know it's crazy yeah how
where where were you last time bitcoin was at 40k whoa
um i think i was at our basil 20 december 2021 and whether that was bitcoin 60 not 40 i think
when was the last time bitcoin 40k
bitcoin went fucking ape shit in december of last year like the point of efo yeah or not
a two-bedroom apartment with my ex-wife and uh hoping that crypto was going to make sense
so this is this is good this is good see miracles do happen he was probably on a plane
i was living in a two-bedroom apartment things can be better
well i mean the ai is used you know to kind of search the market and like figure out like what
should be anybody launching to get attention the problem of ai it does not work really for web free
you know it works perfectly well guess what guess what guys in january um the reason why i haven't
been on leap spaces is because i've been working on something that is probably the number one thing
i've ever been excited about in my life and it's related to both of those things and music and i don't
want to hype it up too much because to be honest i'm wrong like 90 of the time i'm actually wrong
like 98 of the time and like 2 of the time i get kind of confident and like one of the two percent
actually works so this might be in the other half that doesn't work but i've never been more excited
in my life so for what it's worth snow um the reason why i think you think that is because there
hasn't been anything that's made sense yet the reason why nothing's made sense yet is because there
isn't really an application for establishing provenance and and sort of let's call it like
uh origination of a model in a way that is low cost and available to a consumer and in music
specifically blockchains can play a very important role in tracing sort of origination of both like
material that things are trained on and from a licensing standpoint and so um that's what i've
been working on for like the past god knows how long and maybe people care a lot about it because
it's really dope or no one cares at all and i'm super wrong but i'm having a good time either way
i just need to say in the 10 years that i've known you or what 13 now i'd say you are a
fucking legend man the fact that you're even like fucking around with this and it was dubstep in
2010 and like all the crap that's coming between bro i'm gonna dm you something right now and you're
not going to believe it and you're probably gonna flip out and just don't tell anybody that's okay
you're so you're saving me man well look i love y'all so much thank you for coming to this space
if you want to come hang out on the stream the link's in my bio um it's also wait why are you
posting this space because i i want to dude i want to i want to i want to hang out and play some games
and you know what i mean just chill out for a bit um maybe have a glass of wine where are you are
are you on the west or east coast right now i'm on the east coast i'm going to miami in a couple days
and then and then back to go oh i don't know i don't know about me if i want to go everybody's saying
to me i'm not gonna go to there this week like let's meet in new york i'm like i'm thinking about
it well i'll also be in new york after so i'm going miami and then la for like a week or two
and then i'm going to new york for a month so um a lot of i'm gonna be moving around quite a bit but
um i think art basil is going to be really fun i mean i'm going just again full disclosure i'm going
to do stuff with rug radio i'm staying at the rug radio house um so that's why i'm going but there's a
ton of events going on for people that are interested and with art and i know d gods are
doing a bunch of stuff pudgy's doing something nft now is doing something trippy labs they're doing
by the way the trippy labs event last year was the best web 3 event i've ever been to out of anything
ever and it might be the best event i've ever been to in general and they're doing it again this year
so so pretty excited for that um but yeah that's it wow too bad too sad we're closing the space and if
you want to come come hang out on the stream um well hey hey leap i uh i went to the kickstream last
night it was dope very good energy um you brought up some stuff i just want to say man i went through
the same shit like last year and uh well that's just real quiet okay take advantage well take
advantage and another phase of least spaces wait no crowd crowd i don't think you can hear cp talking
right now uh yeah well well i i just went through the same kind of shit like over the course of the
past year it was like uh find out in february and then finality uh the next february you'd be
surprised how fast things can progress and so take time or take advantage of the time that you have
and that's all i want to say appreciate you cp definitely means a lot um but look on that note
we're going over to the stream and uh yeah i've already i've already shelled it enough so if you
you want to send me a link where do i go it's the links in my bio it's kicked out oh it's oh i see
it yeah leap underscore xyz don't expect you guys have any wait wait before you leave does anybody
have any tv show recommendations because i literally cannot do any more work today what should i watch
um i have oh the last thing i watched was selling sunset but i don't know if i would recommend that
oh my god yellow jack gets on okay i'll take that yellow jacket all right that's it also somebody uh
sand broke see in the chat just wrote yo leap get some solana experts on the twitter space next time
so if you guys know any solana experts hit them up i love y'all i appreciate y'all if i don't see you in
the stream i'll see you tomorrow night in the space please go take care of yourselves we'll chat soon
Host
Speaker
Cyphereus Prime 🟧🦇🟦
from
VMPX
