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Ethereum Strawmap: Game Changer for Privacy & Scaling? π΅οΈ The Aggregated Ep. 152
Recorded: March 6, 2026 Duration: 2:06:33Space Recording
Full Transcription
The End Thank you. Music Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. Music . Okay, the music stopped, so I guess it's time for us to start talking
hello hi yeah
my phone literally got rocked there uh it closed the the x app so that could have ended quickly
well i never want to be the one to interrupt the music.
Yeah, I mean, it's always funny.
I don't want to be the party pooper, you know?
Yeah, but welcome everybody to episode 152 of the aggregated uh today is ethereum straw man
is this a game changer for privacy and scaling
i don't know let's talk about it and uh dig in um i see that we only have a few speakers up here right now. But I know that we've got a few people that are still coming in.
So, yeah, maybe if we can do a little bit.
I think everybody has been on the show before.
I think Nadim, Wolf, you guys have all been on here.
I see Andrew.
I don't think I've had the pleasure
to be here before,
but thank you so much for inviting.
Is that Andrew?
Andrew or Andrew,
both work for me.
So you decide which one is easier
for you to pro.
Okay, it looks like
my account
is a little
glitchy because I can't
even see you as a speaker. It says listener.
yeah, welcome.
So I know you haven't been on here.
I don't know who else is up here as a speaker
as well. I can't tell. So I know you haven't been on here. I don't know who else is up here as a speaker as well.
I can't tell. So, but you guys all know that this is kind of a more of a, you know, a roundtable type of conversation. So, you know, you don't have to raise any hands. You just jump in. Feel free to, you know, express yourself.
express yourself.
And yeah, we'll go from there.
But if we want to just introduce ourselves really quick,
we can start with, yeah, Andrei,
if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself.
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
Pleasure to be here.
I'm co-founder at AllBridge.
I've been connecting chains for the last five years.
Been another five years before that in crypto,
but doing mostly mining.
And a little bit
of payments in retail with crypto. It sounded really cool back in the days before the crypto
cards became widely popular. We were thinking that maybe we can do some POS integrations.
It never worked out, but we were thinking about buying coffee with crypto one day, and apparently those
days are here.
I'm here to speak, and I would be happy to see part of your team also joining our EMA
later next week.
And as for Ethereum, let me just jump in the discussion.
So I will pass the word for now to other speakers, and we take it from there.
Awesome. Yeah, Nadim, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?
I know you were here last week, but yeah, introduce yourself.
Hey, brother, how you doing? Good to be here.
Out in Egypt right now, enjoying Ramadan while the world burns.
It's a weird time here in the Middle East.
I live in Montreal, it's where I'm based, but I am in a part of the world right now
that things are a little bit weird and unsettling.
However, I'm very excited to talk about the topic of today.
I see my boy Luke in here. What's up, Luke?
And a lot of other familiar faces.
I thought this was a really cool topic because I've been aware of the idea
that Metallica's would have to be more DKs,
your knowledge,
the things that take better now,
better security for decentralization.
My no optimistic roll-ups require,
like, they have, like, a seven-day window.
have like a seven day window
the way it works is you're able to contest any
The way it works is you're able to contest any transaction.
transaction
is it me rugging
or is he
he's in and out for me as well
okay
I guess we'll
it'll be the noise canceling
as the bombs fly past
oh my god that is so terrible
I mean honestly that that's that's
horrible to think i i really hope and um you know wish everybody the the best and uh pray everybody
stays safe so um we'll wait for nadim to come back i guess wolf do you want to jump in yeah it seems
like there are less less countries countries in the same, unfortunately.
Good evening.
Salaam Alaikum.
Dobry veΔer.
My name is Alex.
I work for VOOF.
So we build software for Compound, for Avalanche, and for other amazing builders.
This topic is very close to our heart.
I think that it didn't get enough attention. I think the only one that was about the quantum resistance, clear communication, in my opinion. And that's something that we want to talk about. My name is Alex, and thank you for
inviting us today. Awesome. Yeah, welcome. Nadim, you're back. You want to jump in really quick?
Yeah, brother. I'm sorry. Can you guys hear me a bit better now yeah we can yeah we can hear you okay awesome yeah so i don't know where i stopped where
i was talking last time but yeah yeah it's interesting to me introduce yourself really
quick and then we'll move on to the next speaker and then okay perfect and then we can jump into
the conversation awesome stuff brother thank you so yeah no i'm in marketing um was with the voxies
worked at quicknode, Cosmos.
I've been spending time on XNetworking, meeting beautiful people.
I'm very excited to talk about today's topic.
Wonderful, thank you.
You missed out Coca-Cola.
Oh, and Coca-Cola. It's not Web3. That's why I intentionally left it out.
But dude, yeah, hell yeah. Coca-Cola, British American tobacco. Let's go.
Did you ever talk about Iron Brew when you were at Coca-Cola?
Is that a contested topic?
I'm sorry, talk about what?
Iron brew.
Obviously, Coca-Cola is the most popular drink in every country except Scotland.
I think there's a famous saying that we would tell each other.
It's actually true.
I think the second best known word after the word yeah, like the word yeah, sorry, the word okay, sorry, the word okay is the most common word, like known word in the world.
I think the second one is something like Coca-Cola or Coke or something like that.
Like, that's how popular the brand is.
It's actually insane.
Yeah.
And then third is Pepsi okay.
Oh, yeah.
Pepsi is always third, bro. They're never catching up. Although although i'm not gonna lie i i do prefer the taste of pepsi i'm sorry for saying
this i don't work for coke anymore so i can be honest i do i prefer coke that should be nda stuff
anyways uh we're gonna pass it on over to jared Jared, welcome here. If you want to go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hey, guys.
Yeah, this is Jared from StarTail and Sonium.
And really, I'm here to probably learn a little bit more about Straw Map.
I'm not the most technical person.
I'm more of marketing like Nadim there.
Yeah, but thanks for the invite.
And Nadim, I hope you make it back home safely.
I'm over in Halifax, so I'm not too far away from you.
But best wishes to you.
It means a lot, my brother.
The only thing is, it's like Egypt.
If you look at the map, it's out of the way of any sort of incoming missiles
or crossfire between all the involved parties.
So it should be fine getting back.
But, yeah, it does feel strange hopping on a plane right now.
I don't feel fully comfortable doing that.
But thank you, brother.
It means a lot.
Thanks for the good wishes.
Yeah.
Awesome.
And then I'm going to pass it on over to Mantra.
Does Mantra speak?
Hey, guys.
How are you doing?
Doing wonderful.
Welcome. mantra speak hey guys how are you doing doing wonderful welcome uh yeah i'm just here to uh sort of celebrate the uh debut of quick swap on mantra which kind of happened this week and
also to talk about uh what you got on the topic list today wonderful well welcome uh we'd love to hear any insights
if you have any uh but yeah congratulations to quick swap uh on the mantra debut yeah uh
panna do you actually want to say a little bit about that or touch on that a little bit
i guess we don't we don't really talk too much about quick swap on this show but um
now have we said anything about that yet
you there
darren oh my god i was i was not listening
i was i was chasing up a couple people yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously the Mantra token got upgraded
on all the big exchanges and quick swap this week.
So yeah, I mean, trading's live there.
We've got some more pools actually live today.
I don't think we've announced them yet.
So yeah, some things cooking over there.
Okay, wonderful. announced them yet um so yeah some some things cooking over there okay wonderful um and then nicole i mean uh do you want to introduce yourself unless there's anybody else that's
like here on the speaker panel that i didn't catch um i can't see anybody else uh we've got uh crypto rocky oh who's that it looks mildly familiar
good morning fellas and for ladies hello good morning how's everyone doing i i honestly i
can't even see that you're a speaker on here. On my account, it looks like you're a listener, just like Andrew as well.
So I'm kind of rugged.
Yeah, my Twitter was being a little glitchy.
But yeah, I'm Rock.
I'm the CEO of Lunar Digital Assets, a venture studio that incubated Polygon, Quickswap, and others.
Co-founder of Quickswap,
mentor at Tim Draper's,
Bitcoin Phi Accelerator,
head of Global Leadership Council
for Michael Turpin's,
BitAngels,
and co-founder of Litecoin Virtual Machine.
Good to meet you guys.
Anyone new here who hasn't
been here before and good to see
everyone that has.
Welcome.
Welcome.
Nicole,
you want to hop in?
I can't hear
Nicole in my rug.
No, I think she unmuted.
Yeah, she's unmuted.
And rock has sent you a co-host request as well.
Okay, well, I guess we'll jump right into this here.
I guess bear with us, guys, since X is a little rugged today.
guys since uh x is a little rugged today um and so yeah so ethereum they have basically rolled out
the straw man road map um if you guys have read it it goes it breaks down into the five north stars
so the um the first one is the you know fast l1 the second one is and I don't know how to pronounce this, oh, it's Gigagas for the L1.
And then number three is Teragas for L2.
Four is Post-Quantum, which is what earlier somebody said was probably the most hyped,
which I think quantum just in general is a fairly hot topic.
It's something that has finally come out into the open.
So that's pretty hot anyway.
And then five is privacy on the album,
which I think is also a really hot topic as well.
But from here, who's a speaker on the show,
I'd like to hear which one of these is your guys' favorite.
Which one is more hype to you guys?
And which one do you think is going to get, you know, Ethereum the best traction?
Yeah, go ahead. But like just coming from a general, I'd say growth of the ecosystem would be, I think
the focus on a fast L1 is maybe something that the Ethereum ecosystem is lacking in
general, right?
I think we're all very used to it.
And whenever you're really using Ethereum or any of the other L2s, I don't really find
it too slow nowadays. But if the system grows
a bit, it can get a little boggy and a little buggy. But I think this is an benefit for Sonium
and probably a lot of other L2s because just in general, the sentiment a lot of times is like
Solana's fast or Sui's fast. This is what you see like a lot of influencers say. So whether
it's actually a net benefit or we're just having this narrative in the ecosystem, I
think this is a good way to bring kind of mass adoption and build that story. That story
is great for everyone because I mean, once they're in Ethereum ecosystem, then they can
try out like the, for example, the mini apps we have on Sonium, or the financial products we have on base, you know, everywhere, or like QuickSwap, right?
Then they can easily find QuickSwap once they're in the Ethereum ecosystem.
But making that first jump, especially in North America, Solana and Sui are kind of
very attractive for people. can i just say like from from a user perspective something which everyone will feel and it goes with
the og status of ethereum for me it's private ethereum right or shielded transactions so
or shielded transactions. So something that enterprises will want to
don't have public financial data, users that want some confidential payments,
and many use cases that Ethereum will have in the future, I think this is big.
Yeah, that's actually a good point because privacy in general kind of had its heyday earlier this year.
And I think it's just kind of something looming in the background that it's easy for all of us to understand.
It's a very good point.
I also wanted to join this crowd that is more enthusiastic about privacy.
Because if you think about it, we've got some private-oriented chains like Monero or Zcash
or Dash, I do remember from back in the days.
But they're pretty much terrible to use.
On Ethereum, we cannot rely on the network itself.
We need to use third-party tools like Tornado,
which immediately marks your Ether,
an Ether coming from Tornado.
So while it is private, it is hardly usable.
So the whole chain going towards privacy
may be a good thing,
especially considering that even within the crowd
of people attending the conference,
I know in person,
the amount of issues, incidents,
when people got robbed of their crypto is increasing.
And it's really not fun anymore because everyone who's been a public speaker is now becoming a
target, especially if we travel to the... For example, my last trip to Bogota, to Colombia,
has been really scary. Some of my friends got into trouble in Rio de Janeiro. One good person
got beaten, robbed completely of the crypto,
and thrown out of the bridge.
And those things happen more and more.
So I'm not speaking about privacy like, let's rug a protocol
and throw the money away so we can get away with the funds.
But I'm speaking about reasonable privacy
that we don't want people to know how much we have on us
in our wallets just for safety reasons.
No, I agree. I mean, privacy is extremely important. I mean, for for anybody, I mean, there's no need. Nobody in the world needs to actually be able to see what you hold inside
of your wallet. Nobody needs to know what's in your bank account.
Regardless, I mean, obviously, we love the idea of being able to prove the transactions,
but having the privacy aspect on Ethereum, I think, is going to be awesome. I'm just curious as far as how they're going to be implementing these different type of protocols, whether or
not they're going to be doing confidential computing, or is it more on the ZK side of things?
I guess I'm looking deeper into figuring out how exactly they're looking at implementing
some of these privacy features into it and whether or not it's going to come, you know,
for example, like within the protocol level or will it be mostly like on the wallet side
of things?
Will it be like a memberble wimble uh type of um
solution you know this is you know i don't know if you guys are familiar with how memble wimble
works um or like zcash right where it's kind of like a ethereum a privacy optionality um you know
where you know you can go in and turn it on like Shield or put your Litecoin inside of MimbleWimble
to provide a level of privacy within there.
Yeah, it'd be really interesting to kind of learn about it a little bit deeper.
Does anybody have any ideas of how they're going to be implementing that?
I do know that Vitalik has been particularly interested in privacy pools protocol on Ethereum, and he's been writing some comments regarding it.
Probably he may be looking at something like that.
So it would be opt-in, opt-out privacy from what I can understand.
According to the recent news from the ETH Denver 2.
Looks like that, but I don't have any solid proof.
Those are just thoughts and rumors.
It is, actually. I just found it. It actually says exactly what MembleWimble or something like Zcash Shield would be.
It would be like a shielded E-transfer.
So, yeah, that's interesting.
That's an optionality type of thing,
which they should have had in the beginning in the first place right now it's just a dream but some many chains
have them by default that have the issue with the scalability example with monero so the more users
use monero the easier it is to hide your transaction in a nutshell so I guess
if you didn't wants to fix it on the chain level so you mentioned about
wallets it will work for everyone right so everyone now can see your balance who
you send money to how much you send so I guess the idea is to hide that
information but the network
will be stay available to verify the transaction with zk proof and so
basically on a validation level I guess it it will not be visible but it will be
still validated but for the average Joe there'll be no way of seeing and tracking so I
guess that's the big idea yeah I mean we we already have some of these solutions like on
the wall the reason why I say wallet is because I already know of specific wallet solutions that
provide a level of privacy um as well as like anti-phishing. I mean, if you guys have ever heard of American Fortress,
which is now the white label solution for Zero-G as well.
But the wallet in itself, like it has a confidential machine to it.
So it's like a balanced blinding.
And it basically allows you to, you know, transact with individuals
and, you know, being able to not necessarily hide your
balance, but have the privacy part of it. So you can, you know, obviously confirm the transaction
happened, but they just can't see within the wallet in itself. But that should be launching
soon. But yeah. But I think that's, that's still a solution
in itself and an issue that needs to be solved regardless if it's on the app layer.
Um, you know, mainly because within the app layer, it's still going to have to shoot out
to a wallet, right?
This will be, this will be protocol level from what they say so far.
Um, it'll be, It won't be by default.
It'll be optional.
It'll be like an opt-in thing.
And it sounds like they'll be encouraging people to use it
because the more people that use it,
the better privacy everyone will have.
But that you will be able to reveal your information if needed for audits,
subpoenas, stuff like that.
But you would have to, I believe you would have to selectively reveal the information.
So it's not like some third party can reveal the information.
It's not like Ethereum could get a subpoena from the government
and then say, oh yeah, here's this person's information.
If you got subpoenaed from the government,
you would have the ability to show the government and say, here, here's my records of what I did.
Or if you were audited with taxes or something.
But I guess that's like a next question from Ethereum, right?
How they will be able, available to work in European Union with all these laws and etc.
So I guess that's a new challenge.
Which laws?
Because I mean, the European Union has laws that are more privacy focused, right?
No, I'm just saying the same as you mentioned about subpoenas and
like
Governments looking to track someone
Etc. Then for sure there'll be a pressure on Ethereum to lift this, you know, there's the reason Monero or XMR
It's not available on most European transaction
Exchanges and the reason is because they're super private about the account
xmr is not available because it's an automatic thing like monero is just automatically private
right you just can't see it uh i think that with the optionality so like litecoin in itself has
memblewimble which is optionality zcash has uh you know zcash shield which is optionality as well
Zcash has, you know, Zcash Shield, which is optionality as well.
I mean, that is a good point that you're bringing, like, Rock and Alex.
Like, on the one side, I'd say from marketing perspective, if you're doing anything in Europe, or I say EU, not all of Europe, their policies for security and privacy are very high.
So high sometimes that it's not worthwhile to even collect emails to pursue marketing unless it's very important. But
then at the same time, you have to protect privacy to be able to be compliant with the
many different states over there, right? Because each state can have something different, even if they agree to protect user data.
So I never really thought about that.
I think that is going to be a challenge for blockchain in general.
Obviously privacy, I think, comes first.
But then as you're entering different places, how can those institutions start using the
infrastructure below and still be complying with governments.
Well, I guess that's for Vitalik to resolve for us to enjoy.
So, yeah, Europe is fucking weird.
So, just being real here, with their...
So, let's see, they've got privacy protection rules with the internet, right? And some might argue those are a good thing. I'm not 100% sure, but I think, anyways, I don't know. I'll leave that alone. when it comes to recently speaking out against government or saying, quote unquote, hateful
things, they're saying that they want back doors to your encrypted messaging services.
And they want to basically be able to read anything that you say. And I think it was without a warrant.
So, yeah, a little weird.
I guess they want you to have privacy maybe from like companies,
but they don't want you to have privacy from them, right?
They want to, you know, make sure they can see whatever you're doing.
And if you say something bad, you know, they're going to put you in jail.
And I think, what is there, like 10,000 people in Europe in jail
for saying mean things right now or something ridiculous?
Europe is on a weird journey right now.
And the whole thing's happening for the last couple of years
with more and more restrictions on exchanges,
the ability to identify not and more restrictions on exchanges, the ability
to identify not only the users on exchanges, but also all the wallets that send money to exchange.
You need to above, I think, 1000 euros right now to tell them if it is your wallet or it is some
third-party wallet. And they are also enforcing travel rule all around.
So all the wallets that are at some point linked to a change in Europe
are sort of marked and verified right now, which is scary.
And I don't see how private Ether just fits in.
Yeah, I sent USDC into Coinbase the other day.
And then, you know, you get those little spam transactions
that follow you with a spoof address.
So it's like my address, but slightly different.
One of them also sent...
I'm sorry, can you repeat again? Can you come again about what you did?
Well, I just sent USDC into Coinbase.
But like...
Fishing Wallet sent also a tiny fraction of USDC
into the wallet also.
So Coinbase emailed me
and they were like, hey, who sent this?
It was like 0.0009
USDC.
And they were like,
and the only option was me to either say
this is me or
this is someone else. And then if you click
this is someone else,
it asks you who it was.
And I'm like, I don't know who to try to spoof my address
with like a fraction of a cent.
But yeah, then they were just like,
yeah, we're not going to let you use
that specific bit of funds anymore.
So I've got like 0.0009 USDC in my coinbase
that I'm not allowed to use.
So I can't even hit like 100% on USDC transactions anymore that I'm not allowed to use. So I can't even hit 100% on USDC
transactions anymore because I'm not
allowed to use it.
You're lucky it's a small amount, bro.
That's fine.
Well, yeah, obviously no one's going to send me free money.
But yeah, if someone did
send you free money, you wouldn't be allowed to use it
anyway unless you could tell who they were.
Hmm.
Do you guys think that having like
this now quote-unquote native private transactions on ethereum um that like defy
will gain like the adoption that we've we've been looking for and pushing for all this time i mean
do you think that i mean mean, obviously, you know,
we're talking about compliance in the EU, you know,
there's compliance in the US, compliance in Asia.
I know that when I was just in Hong,
I was just in Hong Kong, in fact, at ConsenSys,
and, you know, we were hosting
our inaugural Bid Angels event there.
And one of the biggest topics
was compliance and regulations.
And this is what, you know, a lot of these companies funds.
And, you know, obviously the government is wanting in order for, you know, adoption.
But do you think that with privacy now coming into play, it's going to set in motion the true adoption that we've been looking for all this time
or or is it gonna make you know defy a little uneasy or do you think it's gonna make it actually
even better or or what i say is it gonna make defy great again oh shit you said it can i hop in you said the words
i don't know man like i think i think so like from what i been reading recently um about ethereum
is that they want to be not the fastest but they want to be the settlement layer where everything gets settled like and adopts their
security and then l2 is going to have to sort of follow suit and make sure that their developer
tooling and their back end and their sdks all adhere to zero knowledge uh roll-ups in order
to stay relevant i think vitalik even warned he's like those who don't work towards this will be
left in the dust and will no longer carry any sort of value as an l2 um but then on the other side you would expand on that
so what did you say all together i think what vitalik was saying was l2s are going to have to
adapt i can i can send it to you on dms but else is going to have to adapt to the new reality that
ethereum is moving towards zero knowledge as opposed to optimistic.
And the thing is with Ethereum is that they've wanted to be on zero knowledge for a while, but the technology wasn't there.
The tooling wasn't there. They didn't have the things that they needed to provide developers in order to build on a zero knowledge plan because it's much more complex and difficult.
We said this on this show for at least like three years now, that this is what would happen, that everything would move to zero knowledge and that the optimistic roll-ups would be phased out eventually.
100%.
That's what Polygon's game plan has been with their ZK roll-ups.
Right, they've been focusing almost exclusively on prediction markets and zero knowledge technology.
So you have that.
And payments.
And yes, exactly. You're right.
So you have that. You have that push towards privacy and making sure that, you know, because zero knowledge is very pro decentralization.
Remember that thing we were all very big fans of back in 2021?
It kind of died out. Nobody talks about it anymore. That thing called decentralization. You guys remember that thing we were all very big fans of back in 2021 it kind of died out nobody talks about it anymore that thing called decentralization you guys remember
that yeah well they're trying to bring that back what's what's that i forget what that is
they're trying to bring that back into the fold and make that like a key
they're trying to make decentralization great again right and that's what zero knowledge is
going to achieve, hopefully.
So once the thing is for me is that there's government entities that don't, for very obvious reasons, they don't want that. They don't want privacy to take the form of people doing transactions
that can't be monitored or people can't be identified, funding things that they're not
aware of for obvious reasons. So I don't know how this plays out. I don't know how these two
competing desires end up sort of forming into a reality.
So I'm actually curious what some of you guys think about that, because I really don't
know.
Go ahead, Rock.
Go ahead.
I'd like to hear what you said. I think this is one of the things I love about Ethereum is that they care so much about decentralization.
I do greatly fear that our industry is moving away from the core tenets or pillars of our industry.
And so they're focusing on two of them,
which is privacy and decentralization.
So kudos to them for keeping the dream alive.
You know, outside of Bitcoin and Ethereum,
I definitely think we've deviated a lot.
And even within Ethereum, like maybe the app level,
I think, you know, people, I think just people in general
aren't focused enough on the values of the industry.
So, yeah, it's good for them to keep focusing,
keep us focused in a way.
I think we've moved more from decentralization to trustless.
Most L2s right now are trustless.
They're not decentralized.
They'll have a centralized sequencer.
Someone can just turn it off or not do any ETH anymore,
and then bad things happen.
So what you're basically doing just now is just hoping that a lot of the scaling any ETH anymore and then bad things happen. So what you're basically doing just now
is just hoping that a lot of the scaling for ETH
is just done by people that have good intentions.
I mean, a lot of them,
I mean, even maybe the ZK apps that are showing up,
like obviously Calci,
made by one of the Quicksil co-founders,
that's effectively an Alt- l1 that people deposit into they do all the transactions then a zk proof goes off to ethereum
to prove that they've done all those transactions so that is somewhat private in that there's like
obviously no block explorer no one's sort of watching what you're doing you're effectively
using an app without having to sign MetaMask every two seconds.
So you can do as much as you want on that. And then all that they're really looking at is a balance change. So those kinds of apps are moving away from more, I'd call it decentralized to just
trustless. So you assume that someone is just not going to like rookie and run away with all your
money. But you can still play with it as much
as you want you can do exactly what you want it's like there's no real like guardrails but um i
wouldn't call it like fully decentralized i don't know if you guys remember recently uh vitalik had
offloaded a bunch of ethereum i don't i'm of Ethereum. I was having Fatar when you guys
were talking, you might've covered this already, but Vitalik recently offloaded a bunch of Ethereum.
I think it was like, what, 12,000 or 12 to 15,000 worth more than $20 million during a period where
the market was very lacking of confidence from a lot of investors and people were attacking him
for it. And they're like, dude, is this really the time for you to be offloading so much ethereum at such a fragile moment in the market and he he he had
already mentioned like back in i think in december november he's like yeah i'm gonna be selling a
bunch of ethereum to fund some projects some open source software uh some zero knowledge projects
and ecosystem that's like something he was very vocal about from the beginning but it was i found
it interesting that the timing though of it because like dude it did make him look like he was panic
selling which i don't buy for a second like i don't think he's that kind of guy but um yeah i thought
that was interesting um and just to all the people catching the top i mean yeah the thing for me is like i think he i think he just doesn't care about like i personally
don't think he cares about the price and if i'm going to talk about i think he does but i don't
think when that decision to sell at that moment was fueled by any sort of reference to pricing i
think he really did need some like liquidity to go ahead and fund the things you wanted to fund
that you vocally sort of expressed he was going to fund like months prior and people criticizing him and all the rumors that came out i think i saw the rumors but people were
like yeah he's going to pull another sam back and free this is going to be another he's abandoning
the project all sorts of bullshit on x just like taking so much um you know momentum and that kind
of upset me man it's like such a cesspool of bullshit sometimes the eth there's a currency and he can send people that to fund their
things instead of him selling sure but like he you do need liquidity you need something you need
to off ramp dude of course you need to off ramp sometimes well at least though for the funding
grants and stuff i mean he could just send them ETH, right?
What would he offload to? That's kind of a bad example of, like, if Ethereum
can't trust its own asset as a medium of
exchange on the chain, then it has to off-road to
US dollars or euros or
stablecoins. That's concerning. concerning sure but what if it's just
like portfolio reallocation which again it's a fair point to you by the way like i agree if like
the founder is so fidgety about using his own token sure i can get how that's bearish but maybe
it's just as simple as him reallocating portfolio to other things. I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think there's like a business side to it that a lot of us have to kind of take into consideration. I will say fair points like sending ETH.
It's kind of like, I mean, it's as good as gold kind of idea.
like, I mean, it's as good as gold kind of idea. Like, why not ETH? But when it comes to like business decisions, especially personally, sometimes it is worthwhile to kind of step back and see what makes sense because there's, there's tax purposes. And whether we like it or not, there's a lot of people who would just say they have very good intentions. They could be a nonprofit, for example, but would say, no, I don't want ETH.
Like, why not ETH?
non-profit for example uh but would say no i don't want eth um and very intelligent people and you
could have a net positive uh i believe by offloading some yeah dude absolutely and then like if you
look at um so there was like there's a cool chart talking about how warren buffett right now
he holds the most cash like ever like since such a long time in relation to his stock holdings okay so he
the majority of his holdings right now are crazy and they're fully almost exclusively just cash
and when he does that that's like a signal for many other whales and investors that like this
guy sees something coming and maybe the tag just wanted some cash on hand as well but just like
the timing was kind of shit too dude you know he kind of like fomented so much distrust in the
space that was already lacking in confidence because of the shitty market yeah it definitely didn't help the space i'll give
you that i suppose if someone tells me that they're raising two hundred thousand dollars
to sound more professional than someone that uh yeah i'm raising a hundred teeth
like the latter does sound like they're launching a meme coin um yeah i mean that is definitely an interesting um point there i mean i don't know i've seen a
lot of founders sell and then we've obviously had a lot of founders who have never sold.
I mean, Roth, for example, has never sold any quick swap tokens.
Kind of completely the opposite.
But, you know, yeah, I mean, who knows why he did it.
It could be just to fund some other projects.
I'm not sure. I don't know.
It could be preparing for even for like a Super Bowl.
You know what I mean?
Just drop the price a little bit more and maybe rotate it into Bitcoin right now as well.
I mean, Bitcoin is fairly dominant, whether we like it or not.
Ethereum is great for, you know, obviously the application they're building and settlement.
But Bitcoin is, you know, one of the greatest assets that's ever been created.
And it's at a perfect price
um and you see that he was selling and then now bitcoin has shot up recently to i don't know what 70 what is like 72 73 right now i haven't looked um yeah don't don't look if that's what you think
it's that okay then maybe i won't look maybe i I'm just totally wrong. I don't know.
You're kidding! Oh my goodness, dude. I can't believe it went...
Oh my god, I thought you were trolling, but it actually did go quite a bit down, I didn't realize.
Yeah, I mean, it was almost at $69. That's why I thought you said it's at the perfect price.
No, well, I mean, to buy. Yeah, it's a good price to buy. Oh, it's 68. Wow. Okay. Great.
No, well, I mean, to buy. Yeah, it's a good price to buy.
I mean, I'm buying, so when I can.
Do you guys think Bitcoin is going to fork to avoid a quantum threat in future
it's something i've been thinking about a lot i mean little quantum things hurting the narrative
of bitcoin big time listen i've been talking about quantum resistance for quite a bit of time i mean
that's literally like the next topic here that i was just about to ask about how my quantum proof
security and straw man change things for the long-term holders i mean realistically quantum
resistance or you know is something that is extremely important, not only in the crypto industry, not only the Bitcoin, but even in like traditional finance.
I mean, they've already hit various phases in quantum computing, like, you know, the magic state, you know, where they're able to solve really, really intricate algorithms, right?
And it's dawning on us to where we have what we call is D-Day or PQ,
where we're going to be post-quantum.
And that's going to be an interesting time.
Now, we already have quite a few solutions to it.
Most of it is in the wallet, the wallet side of things.
I mean, in fact, I've had several conversations with a lot of different protocols when it comes to quantum resistance.
I've even had some deep conversations with David Chalman himself. crazy when I was talking about quantum resistance and for the need to want to need to put, you know,
resources, tools and, you know, attention into quantum resistance until David Chong said something.
But, you know, he himself, you know, had pretty much said that, you know, it's not something that you necessarily have to worry about. I mean, if you did have a solution to where you had to fork Bitcoin over, it would just entirely ruin the entire network.
I mean, imagine the amount of congestion that it would require for everybody to basically move over.
It would just delay the entire network for six months and probably destroy everything
uh something like a wallet solution takes it's a little bit easier it's not so so bad
um but i mean even i guess the the problem would be on if you were to like do like a fork is you
would have another um block size war and everybody would know, it'd be a bloodbath again.
And that's one of the things with Bitcoin.
But Ethereum, we have Italic, and, you know, we can create these solutions a little bit easier
with these controlled and experiment environments.
But what are you guys' thoughts?
Do you think that it'll be something to where, you know, even more on the traditional side, they feel more comfortable jumping into Ethereum?
Do you think that people will hold longer with the price go up?
Or what are your thoughts?
I have a question.
What's the value proposition of Ethereum if they keep driving down the price of gas?
Because it used to be that Ethereum was worth money because there were people that were willing to pay 100 GUE or more to transact for NFTs and meme coins or whatever.
and now the GUE is like 0.2.
And now the GUE is like 0.2.
So it's like almost like the engineers are sort of
they're sort of engineering token value destruction,
which is kind of weird.
I don't know.
I think with gas prices going down,
this is just my opinion.
I think that it's actually going to increase uh transaction and also settlement
as well i mean if you can do everything on ethereum on the l1 why why why wouldn't you
right i mean if it was super cheap it's super easy everything makes sense um you know there's
already been conversations and discussions where there's even vitalica said it you know the lqs
Even Vitalik has said it, you know, the LQs should start working towards more on their, you know, the app side chains while the L1 becomes you know the
settlement and the main highway for everything yeah it's almost like building an RWA L1 is a
really good idea huh but there's also something important like Ethereum sorry go ahead jump in
go ahead so like so like the thing with Ethereum is you've got Vitalik who can sort of make a decision and be like, okay, well.
And he's an icon in terms of just being that cultish personality that people will look towards and sort of be like, whatever he does will move market sentiment.
Like, for example, him selling a bunch of Ethereum will whatever affected in one direction or another.
So he's a cult personality, and he has the power to do whatever he wants with Ethereum.
So it's easy for him to take a direction, make a decision like, look, we're going to take this action in order to counter quantum.
But Bitcoin is run by sort of like it's an ecosystem of participants that run according to a particular system.
There's no cult personality that makes a decision.
So for a
fork to happen on bitcoin it's gonna be so much more difficult and all the bitcoin maxis and all
the fundamentalists are going to be so against something like that so i think i'm not worried
about ethereum i'm more worried about bitcoin just because of how inflexible it is to make
a decision in that ecosystem and that structure yeah i mean anything changing anything on bitcoin and just to be up front i mean i don't think we
should touch bitcoin i think we should just leave it alone um for the most part but it wasn't doesn't
that mean that maybe like zcash or litecoin is a better sort of store of value in the long run
because they both have privacy and they're proof of work
and it's like easier to make these changes or you know and they also have the you know scarcity like
one is 21 million one is 84 million i mean they've been around forever i mean everything has its its
its own value right i mean true value is in the eyes of like the beholder but at the at the end
of the day i mean bitcoin it is king right like it is going to be the standard. You know, it's not gold. It's
better. You know, it's going to become eventually better than gold, right? It's going to be the
asset where, you know, things are going to want to be pegged to. But, you know, you also have,
you know, in the in the rare, you know, minerals or precious metals, you have gold, silver, bronze.
I mean, you have all sorts of different fiat, right? Everything has its own purpose. And I
think that that's kind of going back to Ethereum, you know, having those purpose-driven chains and
those purpose-driven things like Mantra, for example, being specifically for RWAs, I mean, that's a perfect thing to be on and to stick to as part of a purpose, right?
I mean, Bitcoin is something that you would want to keep in your bank or, you know, hold on to that you save.
Something that, you know, you take loans out on.
You know, other things are used for different purposes, whether Litecoin is used for microtransactions.
So I guess, yeah, sure.
But there's a circulating gossip around both crypto natives and non-crypto natives.
People in passing will say, oh, Bitcoin's great, but dude, it's not going to exist in the future because this quantum thing's like we need to crush that narrative we need to come up with
a solution that sort of like completely dismantles that idea that bitcoin's under threat in the
future in order to regain bitcoin's sort of reputation as the infallible sort of value that
do you really think that the quantum uh risk is is affecting bitcoin that much i don't think it is
whether it actually here's the thing
whether it actually does or doesn't i think is not the point i think the point i'm asking no i'm
i'm asking do you think it's affecting the narrative or the belief i don't know yes i do
i think like like far beyond whether the technology can actually threaten and compromise
bitcoin or not i don't know but i do think that that sort of narrative does threaten bitcoin sort of that it threatens the narrative of bitcoin as
a source of uh or sort of as a place of value of holding value and as a place of you know securing
your funds and whatever it's like something that can be said in passing this people like oh okay
well i guess i won't invest in it then i i would say that i mean okay, and like I said in the beginning, I used to be super freaked out about quantum, right?
Like, and what would happen on PQ if, you know, we don't have some sort of solution.
Maybe I've already just had way too many conversations with David Chum where he's like, I already got this fixed.
I mean, I've seen some solutions live.
I mean, it's, you know, pretty much, you know, it's up to you whether or not you want to use some things like this.
I don't know if you're familiar with who David Chalm is, but he is the original or the godfather of cryptography.
He created blind signatures, was basically cited in the Bitcoin white paper, I think like five times. I mean,
he's one who created eCash, who was already using digital currencies back in 95 to 98,
you know, in the Mark Tain Bank in St. Louis before it went bankrupt. I mean, this is before
even, you know, Bitcoin came out. So, you know, maybe, obviously these are, you know, public
conversations and where people should be worried about it. Maybe I'm just not as freaked out So, you know, maybe, obviously these are public conversations
where people should be worried about it.
Maybe I'm just not as freaked out anymore after talking to David Chum.
I don't think a retailer is worried about it at all.
If I asked most of the people I know that hold Bitcoin about this,
they probably just wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
I mean, I don't have a lot of knowledge on this.
How do they ensure that, say, if they...
Is it an upgrade to the network,
or is it an upgrade to the way the seed trades work?
Because obviously, Satoshi's sitting there with a million Bitcoin.
Are you asking what the plan is?
Or are you asking?
How do we make sure those don't get into someone's hand?
They shouldn't.
Yeah,
it's,
there's lots of ways you can do it.
It depends if you're doing a hard fork.
It depends if you're doing it at the wallet level.
Chom believes we should do it at the wallet level and that he has a solution if you
regardless
I think
Richard maybe you can jump in
if you know for sure but
I think regardless of whether
you do either of those
or some other option
maybe soft fork or something else.
I think regardless, Satoshi's coins need to either be moved by him or they need to be
like that.
Everybody has to come to a consensus and agree to lock his coins or we leave his coins and then they are subject to quantum attack and then they
will be kind of redistributed into the network so there's there's different ways that you could do
it yeah i mean um like on like just a quick scan of chat chp t obviously no one knows the right
number but uh that estimates that there's anywhere between what 1.5 to 4 million
bitcoin that are lost or just haven't moved within the last 10 plus years um yeah which is what seven
to 20 percent of the supply yeah that could all be subject to a quantum attack yeah i mean
realistically um before we worry about Bitcoin getting attacked by quantum,
your traditional markets are going to go down.
I mean, everything is going to go down.
Your actual bank account is going to go down.
I mean, J.P. Morgan is going to get completely obliterated.
i forget what the solutions are but people have proposed solutions to this um
so like i don't know i don't know how much i can say about chom solution because i don't
know what's public about it or not um it's a it's on a
level i mean that's that's what i know i know that but yeah i mean yeah i said that but i'm so
in in his solution
basically there's a cutoff kind of date that we all have to kind of agree to as a community where any coins that are not claimed are kind of lost in the wind. They either, either hard or soft, like either they're either in a hard way, meaning that
if they were not claimed, they are just dead and their value is zero or that they're in
a soft way, their value will approach zero over time as we reach quantum, you know, Q
day.
So there's a lot of people thinking about it.
I don't think it's really affecting the value of Bitcoin.
I think there's a lot of other things that are, you know, just market forces and the
way things, you know, work.
I would guess quantum is maybe having like, I don't know, a 1% effect on price maybe or something very small.
But I could be wrong.
I don't hear a lot of people that worried about it.
I'm spending way too much time on LinkedIn, bro.
Those haters, man.
I think there's a lot of early investors like Nick Carter comes to mind that he talks about the quantum risk a lot.
And people respect him because he's kind of an OG.
And then, yeah, like on sort of LinkedIn or more normie outlets, like if you look at the quantum stocks, for instance, those are pumping.
Like if you look at the quantum stocks, for instance, those are pumping.
Crypto is not.
So there's definitely, I would definitely ascribe more than 1% of the reason why Bitcoin is down to this quantum threat.
Maybe 5% to 10%.
I mean, if so, people are just really over worrying about this.
I mean, I mean, our, our like head of engineering is a super Bitcoin, um, maxi, and he's worried
about it.
So, I mean, it's basically because he's worried more or not of like, about whether or not
there is a solution.
He's worried about the community of developers that takes care of Bitcoin
is not going to be able to agree on a solution.
That's the worry more so than whether or not they can or not.
I mean, obviously, Bitcoin is more secure than your bank.
Your bank's going to get hacked like by quantum uh you know whatever
theories quantum hackers before bitcoin will be but it's just uh like at a bank you know
the directive is very clear and you know we have to protect this and eventually like they'll figure
out how to you know quantum proof it right but with bitcoin there's three or four different camps
and they have uh different ideas of how they want to fix this and and um you know there's i don't
keep too much tabs on it but there is like talk of a fork or two like just back in like in the
days of bitcoin cash and bitcoin Gold and all that stuff.
Yeah, but this would not be...
I don't think this would be...
I mean, it's not the same as a Bitcoin versus Bitcoin Cash.
This is something that everybody knows that eventually we need to address.
It's not the difference between should we have big blocks or small blocks and let's have a huge fight about it. It's should we, you know, or how do we upgrade to quantum resistance?
We have to do it eventually.
So I don't see this being like a hard fork that creates two networks
where there's a big internal fight.
I think it's something we just have to work through more than that.
There could be big arguments, I guess, around do we burn Satoshi's coins?
Do we leave them available for quantum attack?
But I still don't think that's going to result in...
I think even if there's fighting, it's not going to result in a split of the network,
like what happened with Bitcoin Cash.
It might result in people being pissed off at the end,
the people that don't get...
It doesn't go the way they wanted,
but I don't think we're going to have two Bitcoins.
I mean, I guess going back to it,
I think that it does need to be addressed sooner than later before.
There's a ton of people talking about it, right?
Yeah.
You know, Richard.
Yeah, I know.
There's a lot of people building stuff for this.
There's a lot of people talking about it.
I mean, we're working with David Chalm on a possible solution.
I mean, that's part of what gives me hope, like Richard said,
is just I've talked to several teams that are doing stuff with this,
and there's a bunch of interesting solutions,
and we just have to, at the end of the day, either pick one,
or it may come down to, like, David Chom's solution doesn't require any fork.
So if we just allow david
chom solution to flourish uh and and it's not a binary like it doesn't have to happen by this day
or that day it's like over time we'll slowly figure out okay look a lot of people are gathering around
this solution okay maybe this is the right solution you know though like on another thought though once because we now have we're i hate to admit this um and you're gonna you're just gonna
like grit your teeth on this rock but um because we're quote-unquote a little less decentralized
on bitcoin right now even though we are decentralized like there's no way of taking it away
but in the sense that we have compliance that we have compliance, that we have in Bitcoin, I think the actual argument
or not argument, but the debate will might even become something a little bit more political
and put on to, you know, it might actually go on in, you know, on Capitol Hill.
It may end up in, you know on on Capitol Hill. It may end up in you know the United Nations.
I think it'll come down to one of these government approved solutions just like all of the algorithms
that they've approved. You know NIST has approved server algorithms but I think the actual like
widely spread adopted solution will come from from them. So yeah the fight may not be as bloody as big blocks or small blocks. It might
be a little more quiet and just a little bit more, a little easier. Heck, it might even
come at the time where Bitcoin is now just fully, fully adopted through. I mean, we can only hope that that day happens.
But yeah, I mean, after talking to like people like David Chom
and all the different projects that we get to,
the wonderful projects that we get to see pitching at BitAngels
and listening to a lot of these developers talking about
their different types of, you know, PQ solutions and all of these
different chains that have adopted, you know, various solutions to quantum resistance. I think
it's quite amazing. I mean, Algorand has her own semi-quantum resistant solution on their chain.
You have things like Uranium, you have quite a few others as well moving along.
And now that we see things like Ethereum pushing for something that is quantum resistance,
I just think that these environments where we're able to experiment a little bit more
and gain the sentiment of the daily users on DeFi,
I think we'll probably get a better idea
of what the best solutions are.
But yeah, I'm really interested to see how this happens,
but I don't think it'll be as bloody
as it has been in the past.
Yeah, and the thing is that every time that we have new threads, whatever that might be,
I know that Quantum is way bigger, of course, but there has always been solutions.
And like you guys mentioned earlier, I think at least to start off, it will be on a wallet
kind of like level solution to start with.
And I know teams from my site too that are working and
not not just working build but they are doing deep research on the quantum side and like
you know with papers and all that stuff so uh definitely there is there is a threat but until
and even vitalik said that it would take up to 2030 i think it was more or less. So definitely there's a lot of time.
I think 2030 is forever.
I think it's gonna come quicker than that.
Yeah, but what I want conflict to end up is that
there are always people working
on building solutions against that.
And that's how it has always been.
And that's how it will always be.
Like, no, there will be victims in between.
People who will lose assets.
But it's not going to be like, no, that's huge.
As everyone thinks about it.
Right.
Okay.
Does anybody else want to jump in here and kind of bring it back to Ethereum?
I mean, on the Bitcoin side, though, I think either way,
if the Satoshi coins moved, people would panic.
If they were like, okay, yeah, Satoshi, you're going to need to move this
because everyone's going to be pretty upset if these get stolen.
And then those move, the market dumps 10% immediately anyway, minimum
because
they know he's around
and then, yeah, I mean
the other option is
that just those tokens, yeah, get burned
or hard forked or whatever
I don't think knowing who Satoshi is
is going to kill
or really be that dramatic
I mean, he did
I did ask ChatGPT, like, if I had
a quantum computer in my garage right now.
Garage?
Garage.
And I could, like,
what's the quickest way I could
make a lot of money?
And it literally was just like, yeah, Bitcoin.
Get into those keys.
Yeah.
I mean, the thing about Bitcoin, right,
is it's died, you know, 10,000 times.
And it always comes back to life.
I mean, even a week ago, people were saying, oh, they're going to bomb Iran.
And then the hash rate is going to be lower than it ever will be.
And it won't be secure anymore.
And I just looked up the hash rate and it's like the highest it's ever been.
So there goes that theory.
Iran doesn't utilize the central banks and utilizes Bitcoin.
Well, the whole grid is supposedly out, right?
So then why did the hash rate go up 30% since the war started?
It's just, everyone has these theories
and they're all kind of end up being wrong.
And, you know, Bitcoin keeps producing blocks
and, you know, that's just the way it is.
Probably going to be that way for the next hundred years, you know.
Yeah.
So, I guess we'll move on to the next one.
With L2s potentially hitting millions of TPS,
well, I guess Mantra asked this question earlier.
I think we went into this, in fact.
What use do you see for scaling the L1?
Yeah, I mean, does anybody else want to touch on that besides what I was mentioning, you know, the purpose chains, app chains?
Is there anything else?
I mean, you have these, you'll have the big L2s, right?
So Arbitrum and Base, those will probably survive.
Maybe some payments-oriented one would stick around.
But, like, if you can accomplish anything you want on L1,
and you can keep scaling the L1 to sub-second finality, I don't see any reason to be on an L2.
This is just what it is.
An L2 needs to be run by someone like Coinbase or Robinhood or Circle or some big corporate entity.
That makes sense to have an L2.
But other than that,
like it has to be an L1.
That's just our thesis.
But isn't the whole idea of L2
is to solve the trilemma,
you know, the security, decentralization.
What's the third one?
I can't remember.
Speed, I think.
So like what's changed now
that L1s can figure it out and solve
the trial out there?
What's changed is, you know, it used to
be $400 to swap on
Uniswap if you were trying to do it
at a, you know, like, during
a high-volume event, and
now that's just not the case anymore.
So, in my
opinion, like, the
Anatoly's thesis that the monolithic blockchain
is better has won and i think vitalica is basically recognizing that and um you know
like he's not really supporting the l2s anymore and the next debate will be privacy and um it's
great there's lots of different solutions there and lots of different ways to skin that cat.
It needs to be figured out in a way that people can use it.
Unfortunately, the debate is sort of settled on decentralization is not really that important, at least to the users.
I know that maybe engineers care about this a lot but users
just don't care yeah that's why farcaster failed man i think they lost like 40 of their user base
it's like the common you know soccer mom or high school girl or whatever nobody really thinks about
that oh i want my data to be decentralized and maybe some people do me it's a it's growing in
the public consciousness that like your
data shouldn't belong to a platform giant like meta or alphabet or whatever but i think on an
overwhelming basis you don't have like individual users who are just like sort of oh my god should
i use this will it be decentralized so yeah it's a problem dude farcaster i was a big fan of it
sad to see it go down um i think they had a leadership change recently as well.
They lost a big chunk of their user base.
But yeah, you're right.
99% of people,
if you get them to load up
a new website, they'll just accept all
cookies immediately.
99 out of 100 people.
Click that big green button. There you go.
That's what I do.
You didn't see the South Park episode?
He signed the terms and conditions
without reading it?
And then, like, Steve Jobs
kidnaps him and, like, he ties
him up to...
South Park's got some of the craziest things,
I swear. but anyways um
um going back to what we were just talking about
sorry I I just...
I just forgot what I was about to say.
I think that when Quantum... I think when Quantum does make an appearance on the global stage
and it becomes a reality, it's not there yet,
and I don't think it will be.
I don't know if I'm wrong,
but I don't think it will be there before 10 years, according to what I've been reading. Maybe some don't think it will be. I don't know if I'm wrong, but I don't think it will be there before 10 years,
according to what I've been reading.
Maybe some of you think it will be sooner.
Regardless, when it's there, I think decentralization will have a strong role to play,
and I think it will matter to end users.
Not in the understanding of decentralization as we know it,
but just in the sense of, is this platform secure?
Does it have longevity?
Will it actually withstand a lot of these cyber attacks that are quantum powered?
So I think it's not important now, but I think in the future it will definitely be more important to the common user.
Yeah, just wait for these AIs to be petitioned in courts of law.
And then people will realize that ChatGP and gemini like know more about their lives
than than than they do
and then maybe
desensurization and privacy will
come back to the forefront
i'm moving to like a third world country
i'm gonna adopt fishing and planting my
own shit like i'm out of here man i'm done with the
west like this shit is getting too
much for me man
oh i was gonna say a farcaster base pretty much has and I'm done with the West. This shit is getting too much for me, man.
Oh, I was going to say Farcaster.
Base pretty much has taken on Farcaster, by the way.
I don't know if you've been inside of the Base app,
but you use the Base app,
and you can just click it over,
and it's right into the Farcaster,
which is a pretty interesting move to think about.
I mean, I could be wrong, and Polymarket might just be making it up,
but did they not say that a New York bill would ban AI from answering questions related to medicine, law, dentistry, nursing, psychology, social work, engineering, and more?
I thought that was, yeah, I saw that also. I don't know if it's real.
Yeah, is that real?
It might be. If it's on the internet, it's real.
I mean, Sailor did reply to it,
just not intelligent.
I'm not sure how you can enforce that, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, they would literally lose all the devs.
Hey, guys.
I apologize.
Something came up, and I actually have to leave kind of asap um do you guys want to carry on without me
yeah
awesome yeah my apologies guys uh i think this is the first time i've left a space early but in three years but i gotta i gotta run guys um cool well uh yeah i wish i could
comment more i wanna there's a couple things i still wanted to talk about but uh i'll leave you
guys to it you're in good hands and uh catch you guys all soon all right yeah thank you um all
right see you guys cheers brother did you guys. Cheers, brother.
Did you guys read about,
this was also really interesting.
I think it was like,
what, a week ago,
Trump was saying that government,
I can't remember exactly what it was,
but it was something around using Bitcoin to pay off US debt.
And I thought that was super interesting.
If there's one thing about the Trumps
that I will not do in approval
is their commitment to making Bitcoin great again.
I saw Eric Trump in Consensus in Toronto,
and he was just, dude, the guy is extremely bullish on Bitcoin.
And he was talking about how he wants all the money,
like the United States to be the place
that has the majority of Bitcoin mining facilities states to be the the the place that has
the majority of bitcoin mining facilities to be the hub of bitcoin it's like that family man they're
all in on bitcoin and that's one thing that i'm like okay well this is why they attacked iran so
they could get all the hash i don't know dude i've been reading i was reading about that because
did you read the report that says like it Iran like $1,000 to mine a Bitcoin
and the United States costs them like a million or something crazy like that?
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, you probably need to compete with China in terms of energy production
production and growth of energy production if you're gonna say things like that uh america
and growth of energy production if you're going to say things like that.
hasn't improved its grid in 75 years or something and they haven't increased the
the megawatts uh that under production in a long ass time and if you want to be the bitcoin
mining center you better you better think about you know how you're going to upgrade your
grid and like build more power plants a hundred percent dude i don't think many people realize
like how like we we were not not long ago it was like a unipolar world it was just it was just the
united states and nothing was even close to their hegemony and power and industry and all that but
like i really don't think a lot of people realize
how China is arguably stronger than the United States
in so many different areas now.
Even militarily, their army is crazy in terms of technology,
not even the numbers, by the way.
I would not agree with that.
I mean, statistically on paper, it probably sounds great.
I mean, everything looks great on paper, right? But I mean, let's just be real. I mean, the guy playing target practice
versus, you know, the guy actually, you know, in the heat of the moment. But I mean, even at the
end of the day, like I've seen some of these, I've seen a lot of these statistics. I'm not arguing that China is certainly not, you know,
I guess an adversary or a country to overlook. I mean, it's definitely a landmine to definitely
watch out for. You know, however, you know, I do have to argue that China is playing in an
entirely different field versus the U.S., right? I mean, we talk about regulations.
The U.S. is certainly held back by, you know, EPA, regulations,
keeping the world safe, save the whales,
while China is mass production, not really care,
oil spill here, oil spill there, you know,
and just pump out as much as possible.
I mean, even realistically on the military side, I mean, yeah, on paper, like, yeah, numbers are great.
I mean, but realistically, you haven't seen any of these in actual action.
So, you know, paper versus, you know, real time is completely different.
I mean, I don't know if you've ever heard the saying of, you know, watching versus, you know, real time is completely different. I mean, I don't know if you've ever heard the saying of, you know, watching somebody, you know, I mean, it's great that you can target practice quite well, but actually be, you know, in battle, actually hit the target.
Like, that's completely different.
I'm not saying that these guys aren't, like, super trained and they are efficient because I'm sure that they are.
I mean, but there is also, you know one one or more way of military tactics and
military fighting right i mean you got all sorts of different warfare whether it's cyber warfare
whether it's financial warfare whether it's just defensive however you want to talk about it i mean
not everything has to be obliged at a militaristic um you know in people dying but yeah go ahead
dude no i i don't disagree there's there's one thing i want to add uh the
the moment there were two moments where the united states became undoubtedly like the super like the
super bowl champion of the world in terms of being the superpower it was 1945 after europe was
completely wrecked and united kingdom like had lost so much blood and treasure and during the wars and
the other moment was like the 90s when they won the Cold War.
Now, when the United States first emerged out of 1945 as the world's undoubted superpower,
it's because they shed so much less blood than the other competing superpowers,
which declined and were no longer able to compete.
And I think what's going on right now is the United States is getting itself involved in so many...
You guys can disagree.
I'm not going to say it's a forever war.
I don't know.
It does look like it's going to last for at least a month or at least two or more.
And it's already β they've already spent like an insane and inordinate amount of money.
They're starting to lose people already.
And what are the Chinese doing on the other side?
They're not bleeding money.
They're not bleeding treasure.'re just watching they're not they
haven't been in a war in god knows how long i'd have to argue about the watching part i think that
they're involved but maybe not in the aspect that you that you think that they're involved
that's what i'm saying you know what i mean providing reconnaissance yeah i think that's
what they're doing and perhaps sending over some weaponry as well and i totally understand like
the u.s totally being stretched out but like
i mean let's be real i mean everybody's been pretty you know everybody's been involved with
so much reconnaissance and so many different types of you know like i said there's different
types of warfare everybody's been involved the u.s just gets picked out of the bunch right yeah
we're stretched out and i'm not arguing that a lot of this doesn't necessarily, I don't, it's not everything,
not everything is something that I agree on.
I mean, I don't condone people dying.
Like that's, that's absolutely terrible.
And I, you know, pray for the families and the people who, you know, are having to go
through that.
You know, I don't wish any harm on anybody.
However, you know, and I don't always agree when people say that the U.S. is the only one fighting and that China is just sitting back inside of their fortress, not involved in a lot of these battles because they are.
Whether we like to admit it or not or even think about it, it's just the bloodshed and the actual fighting is going on in a different aspect than we want to believe or
understand.
Did you see the nose
from Venezuela when they
captured what's his name?
Maduro.
The guy was like, there was like
hundreds of them and they all just got taken
out by a sound weapon or
something. They literally
just all got knocked to the floor,
picked them up.
I didn't mean to spark
a conversation about the relative merits
of American versus Chinese
military. I was more focused on
the energy production.
I actually got the stats for that.
In the last 20 years,
China has
7 to 8xed their energy output to 10,000 terawatt hours.
The United States has went up 13% in that time over 20 years from 3,800 to 4,300.
And the EU combined is at 3,000.
So actually a slight decline over the last 20, 24 years.
China now produces more electricity than the EU, US and India combined.
No, China's insane.
And the other thing is like China owns so much US debt.
I think like of the 28 trillion that the United States has in debt,
I think it's more
if i'm not mistaken a lot of it china owns and then you're going to meet people like i don't
know if any of you've been to china i haven't but i've i know a very close friend of mine who has
been to china it looks like wakanda guys like it's insane in terms of just the technology the
high-speed trains the skyscrapers what it's a superpower, economically at least.
I'm not denying that.
I'll have to correct you on that.
China does not own very much American debt. Most of American
debt is owned by Americans.
Like in the pension funds
and the retirement accounts and all that.
So the number is something like
38 trillion debt of America
China has about 800 billion of that.
So not even a trillion anymore.
And the reason why they hold a lot of that debt is because of the export imbalance.
So Americans obviously are richer and they buy more stuff from America.
I mean, from China.
And so therefore China gets a lot more USD. and then they have to do something with that. And so if they want to earn some
interest on it, they'll buy treasuries. But usually what they do with the money that they
have in their account is that they use it to protect the value of their own currency. In other
words, they sell their USD to buy a CNY to protect the value of it so that it doesn't go up in value.
So that's why China doesn't have inflation because they use their export-controlled earned USD to control the value.
Yeah, thanks for the correction, dude. It's gone down a lot. I was looking at it.
Yeah, because they've been protecting the value of the CNY.
Yeah, because they've been protecting the value of the CNY.
Like, in all intents and purposes, the CNY should be, you know, really going up in value.
But it hasn't been going up in value.
So, and that's why.
But, yeah, the cities are very well developed.
I've lived in China for a long, long, long time.
And, you know, especially your first-tier cities are super amazing.
You know, but as you go down the third, fourth-tier cities, like, there's just not enough money to go around to develop those.
I think that's just like any country, though.
But, yeah, the first-tier cities are amazing.
I think that's like any country, though. I mean, even in the U.S., in the EU, I mean, no matter where you're at, what continent, I mean, let's be realistic.
You have your really nice areas and then you have your, you know, you got your slums.
I mean, that's just the way the world works.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I mean, not to sugarcoat it or anything.
I mean, I have seen a little bit of Shanghai.
I would love to see more i mean i
think i think china's i've heard so many great things about it and don't think that what i'm
saying is anything negative against china i'm just saying i'm just being realistic and putting it
saying how it is um with with some of the the different things but um you know yeah i mean
even in the us we've got some pretty slummy spots we've
got some really nice areas even even in like some of our most innovative areas like san francisco
uh where silicon valley is i mean it is it is a dump um in my opinion and i hate to admit it but
i wouldn't want to skid row yeah i mean i wouldn't want to live there. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to live there, to be honest.
You know, you definitely got to live on the outside,
outskirts of towns if you want to be around there.
I don't know how a bunch of techno optimists or, you know,
people who are in the startup industry live out there.
There's just, there's so much support, though,
that it still is one of those.
And I see, you know, Frontier C still is one of those and and i see you know frontier cedar is one of them um but yeah i was in art basil right like right before i came to egypt uh i actually rented a car and drove around florida for like a month it was pretty cool in miami they had these
little robots delivering food i've never seen such a thing i was like what the fuck and i'm like well
that's awesome but like i'm sure there's actual people could use that income right i was like there there seems to
be a lot of homelessness people not doing very well i'm like well the technology is awesome but
like god damn man i'm sure some people could use these that money right i don't know i don't know
if and maybe i'm wrong here maybe i'm just being a little harsh. Or I don't know.
But I don't know.
I don't think that those robots are particularly taking people's jobs.
I think a lot of them are homeless.
I think a lot of them are homeless.
They're taking a job.
For their own reasons.
So, but.
Yeah, back to Ethereum to back to ethereum
i'll talk about um you know um cattle's craziness but ethereum's taking our jobs
how do you think ai so back so onto the subject yeah i, I guess let's build on it. So how do you think AI is speeding up dev, as in hinted in the straw map, impacts smaller projects?
Or how do you think AI is going to actually affect Ethereum and its network?
I mean, will it just, you know, elevate it to a whole new level?
Any thoughts?
Or is it going to just take all the dev jobs?
I think, have you seen the Anthropic, sort of, what they think that they're going to disrupt, it's very interesting.
And yeah, like they believe that they'll disrupt a lot of legal and business and finance and software engineering jobs.
I think that was the gist of it.
But there's a whole bunch of stuff that they don't think that they can ever poke a hole in.
And, you know, I think that's very interesting.
And I think also just like as AI gets used more and more, just like any technology, like people never expect like the venues that this new technology like opens up.
technology like opens up, right?
Right.
Like who the hell would have thought that just because you had like an iPod
that all of us, you know, a few years later that you could like,
it would disrupt the cab company, you know, like that's basically what happened.
And, you know, whatever it is in the world,
it's going to happen in five, 10 years now from AI,
like most likely people aren't even going to like perfectly predict it,
you know.
You know, what's even crazier is that when I
iPod came out,
I was betting on the
Zune by Microsoft.
I don't know.
Anybody ever,
ever use a Zune?
Like a,
like a big break.
And it actually had like the video like before iPods ever did.
So you could actually watch the music videos on the screen.
Anyways,
still Microsoft,
but yeah,
but it was a Zune, but yeah, but
it was a Zune, you know, like
yeah, it just was never
that cool, right? Like the
iPod had the like white
earphones and like the
branding and, you know,
it became like a had to have
thing
and then that evolved into the iPhone and then the app store and then whatever we have
today.
you know,
Microsoft just never been very good at sort of like branding and making people like them,
but they do create good like products.
It's just,
they've never been good at like,
like being cool,
you know?
I guess so i mean we're still in the age where like ai layoffs make sense to people though like that that will give you like
a shareholder bump like we've seen that with what blocks when they laid off 40 of the staff
like that was like the large one of the largest ever layoffs like ever in fintech um and like the same announcement which is framed differently would drop them 20 percent like
they uh they obviously good for shareholders like oh we're gonna save money we don't need as many
people because we're making smaller product teams are just ai driven or they've got ai assistance
um but like if they came out and were like yeah we're gonna have to teams are just AI driven or they've got AI assistants but like
if they came out and were like yeah we're gonna
have to fire all these people because we overhired
like
same thing but just
they dropped 20%
I mean but we're
still in that sort of niche where like
people are deciding how much people they actually need
to do all these jobs with the AI agents
or the
sort of increased productivity. Even in the early days when I was speaking to devs when like maybe two three years ago, AI was making them like I don't know five times more productive
and I mean right now it's probably much much more than that. Like, I think I was beginning to see me
last couple weeks ago, maybe,
and he said something that used to take him
three months, he can now knock out in a day or two.
So, like, I mean, one, it's probably
not good for devs
in the long run.
It's good for good devs
and it's bad for bad devs.
Yeah.
We're building
a whole L2
that's just for agents.
That's how crazy it's gotten.
We have a demand
from one of our customers
to build an entire chain
that's only for agents.
Eventually, ESL1 might be that way as well, though.
Like, it'll probably be agents interacting with DeFi
or other things more than people.
Yeah, I mean, there'll be a point, like, I don't know,
it'd be called, like, blockchain singularity or something like this,
where all of the L1s is mostly used by agents.
You know, it's kind of crazy to think about.
But also not that crazy if you think about like, well, I mean,
market makers don't actually like press the buttons anymore.
They have algorithms which which do the trades.
And that's true in NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange as well.
It's something like 95% of all trades come from a computer.
So it's just a matter of time before that sort of,
you put the power into the retail hand and,
and they prefer to defer to the agents.
Yeah.
I'm the only one that doesn't like the name agents.
Does it,
does it?
Why?
I don't know.
It just seems.
You just don't like...
It sounds like James Bond or something like that?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, like,
just ask ChatGPT to name
what it thinks AI agents should be
and I call them operators.
Fair enough.
I mean, even, like,
things like 409 and bleach are
like actual they're cleaning agents
Yeah
Yeah I mean
and you know I was listening to like the most recent
bank list today and they were even
sort of anthropomorphizing
these things i.e they
were referring to them as humans and gendering them and all this kind of stuff but like almost
like apologetic that they were assuming about these these agents um so we're not far away from
like the whole like politics and rights and all that stuff and I think even Claude or Anthropic
announced today that they're pretty sure that Claude has anxiety like like
they're psychologically yeah they're psychologically assessing their
product love it product. Love it. Claude is working too hard.
He's way too many businesses
and he's sad
about being fired from the
American military, but yet he still has to
drop bombs on Iran.
Have you, um,
anybody read the Department
of War
their AI
plan.
I'll take that as a no.
Okay.
Yeah, no.
Okay.
You can tell us what's in it i mean
did you read it i i did i read parts of it um i i did i read parts of it i haven't it's been
it's been a minute since i read the gone back through it uh but essentially what it is is that
i guess i can just wrap it up in a nutshell. I mean, they're essentially going to be utilizing AI to, you know, for all sorts of things.
So they're going to pretty much release it and go as hard as they can for cyber threats, you know, and military warfare with AI agents.
So, I mean, you could expect the future to be, you know,
turning into the next steps of potentially having, you know, Terminators.
I mean, you know, or if you've ever seen the movie Small Soldiers with our little chip that turns them into, like, little, you know,
little gremlins on the battlefield.
But essentially, yeah, I mean, AI is a part of the Department of War's newest military warfare plan.
It's going to be a major component to the tactics that they're utilizing,
and you can expect that they will be militarizing AI.
militarizing AI. So I think it's really important to have a lot of these safety nets in place,
which I still haven't seen too much on the legal side of things of what's legal, what's not legal,
which I'm assuming that it wasn't really outlined within that, mainly because it was mostly designed towards warfare,
because it's the Department of War.
But I'm sure there's also quite a few different other objectives
to outline the different types of legalities for AI.
But it's probably safe to say that, like,
there's going to be a lot of testing going on around and everybody should be really careful.
Not to scare anybody.
I mean, don't...
But, yeah. Go ahead.
Yeah, think about it.
Like, if they could have, like, a proper bit of AI
in, like, an F-22 Raptor,
not anyone in it,
just a target. There you go.
It makes sense.
You ever seen the movie Stealth?
Yeah.
But I mean, that's the way things
are going. Like around, obviously, with all
the drones, it makes sense.
They can do a whole bunch
of damage without actually taking
any sort of human life.
Yeah.
Well,
on their own side.
Yeah.
I guess,
I guess I wonder like what's this going to do to all the people protesting?
Like,
you know,
if people want to drop out of the military,
now they're going to have AI to just,
Oh God,
this is terrible.
But now they're just going to be able to have AI, even if they don't have soldiers.
I mean, one thing I'm looking forward to is
Elon did a lid to a Jurassic Park a couple days ago.
So that's on the roadmap.
Maybe we should try to maybe resurrect the dodo bird first,
you know, like less violent extinct species.
Let's try to get that going first.
I mean, I had actually, I'd watched Jurassic Park the day before.
And then I was like okay so
I didn't look into it and apparently
it's like maybe three to five years before
we can get like little
dog sized dinosaur looking things
and then maybe like 60
years before we get like proper realistic
looking dinosaurs that are big
so there's a good chance that
Jurassic Park in the short term is just going to be
like a petting zoo.
Dude, I'm so excited.
Because that's exactly what Jurassic Park was.
It was a petting zoo.
Like, I would literally
go to the Islas of Los Muertes
Just to go see Jurassic Park
I don't think anybody got that
Yeah that's the island
Yeah I was waiting for the dramatic music
To cue in I was literally just the dramatic music to cue in.
I was literally just wondering if I would go to Jurassic Park if it was open.
Like, I've seen like eight of the movies now, and it never ends well.
Yeah, but they bring it to San Diego.
So, I mean, it's coming to a town near you.
Well, maybe not near you, but...
well maybe not near you but
i mean you live down the street from nessie but
um so yeah back to the a high agent side of things um i mean it's really interesting to
see a lot of these these new dApps coming out that essentially are just, you know, making it a lot easier for developers and having less stringent, like, you don't have to have as big as a team anymore.
I'm really waiting for the day to start seeing who's going to be the next or who's going to be the very first single man project where they come out with, like, you know, one dev comes out with this product that they vibe coded or, you know,
that they dev'd up themselves. Um, and now they're,
they're the one man show of the one man, um, you know, dap.
I'm curious of who that will be, um, moving forward. Um,
yeah, I mean, traditionally like devs have always got little ideas.
They show up, they make the thing,
and then they're just typically autistic and really bad at marketing.
So they need like a third wheel.
But if they can get an agent to do that, then...
Or if it's the other way around, you get the marketer who...
Yeah.
is now the dev.
Is now the dev.
Yeah, but the marketer trying to sell
his approach to an autistic
dev team is going to be very difficult on his part.
Yeah, but the dev team is
just AI.
Just a
wide-coded platform.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, the
point that we keep running into as we're building this agent network is that who do you market to?
Like, do you market to people or do you market to agents?
And if you select the latter, what do agents care about?
You know, you can't really market with like emotions and narrative
right you have to market with like utility to these i don't know for lack of a better word
agents so i think it's really going to change how crypto and and in the economy and everything will
work because like think about it i mean if you had an agent that could like
order your groceries online for you i mean wouldn't you just fucking use that instead
and be like every friday order like look at my first three orders that i did with you
personally and now uh you're gonna order something and and something and we have a Bluetooth refrigerator or whatever.
Look in the fridge and then order the other stuff.
Thanks.
Make no mistakes.
And this is going to happen over and over again for all of your daily tasks that annoy the shit out of you.
And, you know, like, but so how does the agent, like, then how does like, you know, Walmart or, or whatever grocery store in your town, how do they sell to the agents? They're not selling to you anymore.
That's assuming every human being, it's like assuming every human being at some point in the future has surrounded by a bunch of AI agents that manage certain elements of their lives. that's why you're saying companies would target the AI agents for in effect
targeting you essentially right that's right is that the world we're looking at
I guess if your agents are a reflection of you but like if you look at like
what's going on like basically like there are these marks like claw mark
whatever so you can buy like if you want a content marketer agent,
just go buy it off the shelf.
It costs you 25 bucks or something from Claw Mart.
And then it tells you and sets it up for you,
not just tells you how to do it,
but sets it up for you and runs it for you.
And then tells you go to this Telegram channel
and you're going to talk to your content marketing agent.
Right?
So imagine like you have a shopper agent, a wife shopper agent, a kid shop imagine like you have a shopper agent,
a wife shopper agent, a kid shopper agent,
a grocery shopper agent, a whatever,
like to infinity, all these different roles.
And they're not even really built by you.
I guess you customize them slightly.
But, you know, like it's,
I mean, it's a very interesting question like how does mark
like what we've sort of landed on is like the the one role that not gonna really die is marketing
it's just gonna change uh because you need a smart marketing person to be like hey um who am i selling
to or what am i selling to and how do i change the message right
i think it's gonna be a very fringe small percentage of certain societies that are
gonna be excited and will actually use ai in that way to replace all of these things like dude right
now i'm in egypt right i can tell, 99% of people here would not even do that
if they knew it would help them and make their lives easier.
It's simply because they're simply addicted and used to the things that they know.
They're too comfortable with the things that they know
and too uncomfortable to adopt things that they don't understand.
So I think what you're describing will be useful for a fringe society,
maybe for some tech nerds in San Francisco or whatever, a certain family.
I don't think it's like mass, mass, mass.
I don't see it that way. Not yet, at least.
I think it's
mass, but what the
timeline of that is, it could be
five years, it could be 50 years.
You just don't know.
In the future, for sure. Maybe in the future, but
right now, I don't see it
but what does that do on chain i mean especially for bringing it back to the topic writer because
i know that's what you're gonna say um you know basically it depends on how fast you think that that agentic economy is going to actually, you know, slide into place, right?
Right now, Ethereum or any other blockchain is the only way that any agent can sort of bank itself, right?
Because it can't have a bank account, right?
So if it's going to hold value and transact value, it has to do it on a blockchain.
And I think that's like maybe where we're going to get actual growth and utility and revenue for blockchains is that they'll increasingly cater to agents.
And just because of the necessity that agents aren't people and they need to be able to have a bank account.
But essentially their bank account will be their Ethereum wallet.
Yeah these are all really good points I mean it's getting really interesting to
see what you know the claw bots are all doing.
And all these new dApps that are coming out, it's getting really interesting.
I mean, there's a lot of different ecosystems,
not just Ethereum.
I mean, even Zero-G who's doing, you know,
a bunch of their, you know, AI and just in general,
looking at the landscape of how AI is going to affect,
you know, blockchain in itself.
It's just great to see that it's going to be a part of Ethereum.
It's part of the five stars.
But yeah, I mean, I think we're going to start getting this space wrapped up a little bit.
It has...
Yeah, I mean, it's great to have everybody here joining.
And so I want to, you know, start doing some shout outs to the, you know, people out in the crowd, to some of our friends.
And then that way we can start doing some of the, you know, closing statements here.
you know uh closing statements here um and so yeah i mean um so maybe we'll we'll do the uh
the closing statements if we want to go around a little round robin here um i can't tell who's
still up here uh to be honest but uh yeah maybe nadim if you want to go ahead and and give your final thoughts on
the ethereum straw map as a game to some straw straw map as a game changer
yeah brother thank you thanks for having me first of all i feel like i'm vibing so well
with all the speakers love your insights i've really learned a lot. Look, my thing is, I think this is a natural evolution for Ethereum to adopt zero knowledge
and to move towards that sort of infrastructure and to also drag the L2s along with it.
And those that don't come with it are going to be left behind.
I think it's better for finality.
It's better for speed.
It's better for decentralization.
It's better for security.
So I think it makes sense.
I'm on board with what Vitalik's sort of envisioning for ethereum and i'm bullish for it on another note i think that ai
becoming so much more mainstream will make blockchain infrastructure so much more valuable
and then bring much more investment much more attention to blockchain for those who've overlooked
it so i'm bullish overall and i just hope to see one day that the Bitcoin narrative
around, you know, crushes the whole quantum threat. I think some of you don't see it as a
book. I personally do. But I do hope we see a world soon where that's no longer,
even as a rumor, seen as a threat.
I guess we can go to...
How do I say this?
Is it, oh my, Albert.
Albert?
Oh, oh me, Albert.
Oh, I was hoping it was oh my.
It just felt weird.
Oh my, Albert. I don't know if he's here he hasn't spoken much yeah what's this pfp is that like a bottle of jack or something
what is that yo albert it's a bottle of whiskey
with arms that's very tasty sconish whiskey nice
it all begins with iron Brew and ends with Iron Brew.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
Do you have any final thoughts on the Ethereum straw map as a game changer?
I will give you a very quick take.
Oh, here's my friend.
Welcome, Simon.
Good to see you, sir.
My final take here is EVM Bullish.
This is where a lot of legitimate buildings happening.
I think there's a finish.
Well, I'll have to finish for him, I guess.
He got run just like me when i first started talking and this is one of the reasons that mantra has moved uh moved over a lot of our infra to mantra evm because that's
what the institutions they want it they want the they want stability security um and so yeah i think Ethereum.
Yeah, I think what the map means is that Solidity
is one, you know,
like, well, in Solana.
If you're not coding in Solidity,
then, you know,
it should probably start.
All right.
Panda, do you want to give any final thoughts?
I don't think I'll come up with any thoughts as eloquent as maybe Nadim.
But yeah.
Yeah, in general, I think we are probably going to move more into app chains or more
Yeah, in general.
sort of case-specific chains like Mantra, RWAs, obviously polygons, payments.
If you're not in that sort of niche or focusing really heavily on things, you're going to
have a hard time.
And yeah, I mean that wasn't wasn't a
theory and mentioning that they potentially might want to actually
change how they do things with the code as well they actually code base wise
are they just sticking with slowly no I hadn't heard anything different um i mean to to me it having been into about
mantras bit started out in polka dot and then we went to evm and polygon and then we went to cosmos
and now we're back to using evm like in our, everybody wants you to have EVM stuff.
Like there is like, I mean, I like Solana
and I think Solana has a place,
but like for RWAs and for most use,
I think like all the agentic stuff like X402,
a lot of the AI sort of certification and compliance stuff.
This is all in solidity.
And I think if Ethereum, you know, with the new roadmap, just makes their transactions so cheap, even on the L1, it's because that was really the compelling use case for Solana is that, oh, God, you know, it's like sub-second finality and sub-penny cost.
And now Ethereum is like moving to that.
I think, although I disagree that this is good for ETH, because I don't think that they've sort of substituted value capture mechanism yet.
But I think it's good for EVM and Slidity.
I mean, the way that ETH price is going,
the subset of transactions
might not be completely out of the picture.
The scaling might be an issue.
Yeah, we're down like 60% or something
in like, seems like 60% or something in like
seems like a month or two.
It's terrible.
Well,
alright, I just
I guess we'll just go out and
say goodbye to
everybody. Shout out to
Victor, scientists,
I see CryptoCom, ltc down there wise um rainbow
dirty um ultra.sami mocha leroy dsh um ollie orion um Ali, Orion, DeFi, Rich Water, Ismael, PK Spin, Rohit, Choco, Crypto Knight, Chris.
Yeah, thank you, everybody, for joining.
Yeah, it's been a pleasure for everybody to come in here,
and thank you all for giving your insight.
Just quickly, though, before we sign off,
Prof K, do you want to talk about a couple of new pools on Quickswap?
Yeah, I guess we can sign off with that.
We started adding liquidity to Quickswap this week
because I don't know if you're familiar with our project or not, but we like re-denombed the gas coin from OM token to Mantra token today and got this week and got it all accepted by every single major exchange like Binance, Upbid, BidThumb, ByBid, etc.
There's a few other exchanges that still need some help,
but like we basically transitioned to the new ticker and we sort of grew up.
We have like a more standard number for the supply and everything.
And, and a quick swap is our partner for being the main liquidity decks.
And so we've added a bunch of liquidity there.
And if you guys are interested in, in opportunities and whatnot um you go over and see
how how it works it's quick swap but it's on mantra which is evm now and um you know go check
it out like right now it's just like mantra and our stablecoin mantra usd and uscc and usdt
but we've added uh two new pools pools today which will start getting liquidity
next week. That is a hype
mantra pool and also
our liquid staking product
also debuted today like sort
of in the soft launch. So
go check it out.
Awesome.
Yes.
Check out mantra on
quick swap. Let's do it.
Alright,
everybody, thank you very much.
we will see you next week.
What's our topic
next week, Panda?
We got rugged on that.
So we're kind of thinking
it might be aliens.
Aliens?
You think that they're going to release
the classified information about
you think Trump's going to tell us about
aliens by next week?
I mean, that's a question for next week.
They actually released some, I think it was
what, some, not DOJ, it was another
department in the United States,
released the UFO files. This was recent. Oh, united states released the ufo files this was recent
oh they actually released it i thought that was just like they were still saying that they were
going to release it but they haven't released it i might be wrong but they announced it yeah
it's coming out or it's already out and i'm so excited for this because i know that there was
like a big polymarket that like happening um whether or not they would like release it by the it was like
like a robot for anyone else huh what what what happened who got abducted who got abducted
but yeah polymarket had one for for like if they would release it for the end of 2025
and they haven't yet but uh yeah let's let's see what they do
all right everybody we will see you next week.
Bye. Bye-bye.
Adios.
Sayonara.
Aviderzen.
Goodbye. Bye.
We're having technical difficulties right now.
There it is.
