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exSat: the master extension layer for BTC
Recorded: July 24, 2024 Duration: 1:03:03Space Recording
Full Transcription
I don't know if I can hear anyone yet.
I think everyone might still be half asleep.
There was a lot of travel yesterday.
Everyone got to Nashville late last night.
So just still, I don't know, recovering from the travel, let's say, and the grind leading up to the conference and testnet launch this week.
Well, it's good to hear that you're awake, Zach.
I'm glad to hear it.
And I'm also glad to hear that you guys already made it to Nashville as I will be making my way tomorrow morning.
All right.
I'm sure I'll be seeing you at the XSAT booth.
Oh, most definitely.
Most definitely.
So I'm actually quite excited to get the chance to kind of go through this with you guys this morning.
I know that XSAT will be at Nashville at the Bitcoin conference.
And honestly, I'm curious.
What are you guys most looking forward to about getting to go to the Bitcoin conference?
So a big part of it is raising awareness.
So it's obviously a new project.
The white paper has been out for a couple of months.
The testnet is in the process of launching.
It's technically already launched, but it's just like a quiet launch.
Once more validators sign on, we'll be making the formal announcement during the conference.
So I guess a little bit of alpha there, but it's pretty much an open secret.
So in the last week, there's so first of all, a couple weeks ago or a month ago or so, there's the first validator announced, which is spider pool.
The number, depending on the given day, six or seven ranked mining pool in the world.
And one of the goals of being at this conference is to bring on more mining pools.
So the ultimate goal is to acquire 51% of the Bitcoin hash power through recruiting the largest mining pools in the world as data synchronizers.
We are already in talks with most of them, especially the ones on the other side of the world in Asia.
But with this conference being in North America, a big part of it is doing business development for the mining pools and the independent miners in the West.
So that's a big part of the agenda.
And then also on top of Bitcoin miners to act as synchronizers of network, there's also something called validators and they validate the network.
And those are typically large custodians.
So companies like Hashkey, Everstake, companies like that, they'll be acting as synchronizers.
And being a synchronizer requires 100 Bitcoin or more to be staked.
It's completely risk free.
So that's another part of the agenda is finding Bitcoin whales.
So large entities, large holders who want to earn risk free yield on their Bitcoin holdings.
And the reason it's risk free is because the Bitcoin, the way it's staked, and this is in the documentation, maybe Josh could go into more detail if you want it.
But the way that it's staked is essentially you hold Bitcoin in an account, post a specific hash of data on the Bitcoin network.
So you don't actually, it's not like on Ethereum where when you want to stake tokens, you got to transfer your tokens to some smart contract.
You're literally just posting a message on chain on Bitcoin.
You own this account by posting this message using my private keys to the Bitcoin network.
And then XSAT kind of acts like an Oracle and it reads the whole Bitcoin blockchain and it sees, hey, this account posted this hash that says it is who it says it is.
And they happen to hold 100 or more Bitcoin.
So that kind of whitelists them to be a data validator.
And then once they're a data validator, they could start earning XSAT token rewards once the network launches for performing their role.
And what's unique about the network is typically when you have a proof of stake network or a delegated proof of stake network, you have like certain slashing mechanisms.
But because most people don't want to put their Bitcoin into a third party, the slashing actually happens on XSAT.
So if you're to be slashed, you're not doing your job, you're running a node, your node's not keeping up, not doing its job, essentially just stop earning XSAT rewards.
So your Bitcoin is not going to get touched, but you're no longer going to earn XSAT rewards.
And then eventually, a couple of months after, part of the staking mechanism is you not only have to have Bitcoin staked, and when I say stake, it's what I described it as earlier, but you'd also have to have XSAT token staked.
And those tokens would be open for slashing.
So that's kind of how you create the trust within the network is through staking XSAT tokens, staking Bitcoin, and then running a specific type of node that validates all of the data being posted into RAM from the Bitcoin mining pools, which act as the synchronizers.
Wow, Zach, that was quite the data for us all.
I definitely appreciate it, though.
You really went through the whole entire system from start to finish on how this is actually going to be operating, which is amazing, because this is the extended Satoshi network, which I feel like a lot of people may not even know that that's what the name XSAT means.
And honestly, it's impressive to see what you guys are being able to build and how this is going to be a scalable option in the future.
I don't know if it's my Wi-Fi.
Anyone else's audio cutting out?
I can't hear him.
It's yours.
Oh, man.
Can you hear me now, Zach?
I can hear you perfectly.
Okay.
Thank you, Nathan.
Yeah, so me and a couple of other people here on this call are on the same.
Also, because you're on a different connection.
I'm just trying to figure out if it's my Wi-Fi.
I think it might be yours, Zach, at this point.
Yeah.
I know my Wi-Fi is pretty good here.
Well, genuinely, Nathan, how are you doing today?
How's the experience been getting to Nashville?
Are you there as well?
I am not in Nashville.
I'm moving soon, so I've got a couple of other things that I have to do.
But I'm doing good.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty good.
Doing pretty good.
So what all does your role entail as far as the XSAT goes and how they're progressing right now?
So XSAT is pretty much in the budgeting stages, right?
So there's a network which is being raised.
But when you have something which builders need to build on, you have to have somebody who builds on it first so that he can be like, hey, here's how you build stuff.
Here's some template projects.
Here's some walkthroughs.
Here's some tutorials, et cetera, et cetera.
So I'm kind of putting myself into a position to start doing that stuff.
I'm still in the early stages of it.
So maybe some of my XSAT information isn't as good actually as X, but we'll get there.
Honestly, it's just cool to hear that there will be people already trying to build on XSAT.
I think that's really exciting, not only because that means that all the Bitcoin has been gathered up, so it would seem,
but that would also mean that you guys have the ability to start creating and actually building on a network such as XSAT.
Now, Zach, I'm going to throw this back to you.
How are you increasing the actual security of this type of unit?
Because it sounds like it's a lot of Bitcoin involved, and then it sounds like it would have to be a fair amount of the XSAT token as well.
What solutions do you have as far as keeping things safe and secure?
I mean, I'm getting some echo here.
Are we good?
We have multiple people in the same room.
Somebody's going to need to turn it off.
It's lots of people.
Yeah, this is one sec.
That was quite painful.
Is it still?
All right.
So the main thing is that the only way to...
So there's two types of nodes.
There's synchronizers and there's data validators.
To be a synchronizer requires you to be a Bitcoin miner.
And then the other goal, and it's very achievable.
So you'll see announcements in the next couple of days and even weeks of more and more synchronizers who are Bitcoin miners joining the network.
Once you have 51% of the hash power of the Bitcoin network, you're essentially extending the trust of Bitcoin to XSAT.
So if you don't trust 51% of the hash power of Bitcoin, then you really don't trust Bitcoin.
So you could trust that the UTXO data being posted into RAM by the synchronizers, you could trust it as much as you could trust the Bitcoin network because of the 51% plus hash power.
And then on top of that, the job of the data validators is to validate that what the mining pools are posting to XSAT is accurate.
So the data validators, they're not just no-name entities, they're centralized exchanges, they're custodians and some of the largest in the world.
And we'll continue to announce more and more being onboarded onto the test network over the coming days and weeks.
So we're not just talking about these anonymous entities that are running nodes on some other network.
These are big-name projects with big stake in the Bitcoin network.
So I don't really know how to get more trust than that because I keep going back to the 51% hash power.
If you have 51% of the Bitcoin hash power, you have the capability, if you could collaborate enough, to reorganize the Bitcoin blockchain.
And obviously, that doesn't happen.
So once you have 50% of the hash power, you essentially have the same level of trust as Bitcoin itself.
And as far as the XSAT token, the mining emissions begin as soon as the mainnet launches.
The mainnet is currently scheduled to launch in September.
I don't think there's a specific – well, there's not a specific date, but it'll be late September.
Once the network launches, the XSAT tokens begin being mined, but their governance purpose isn't going to be activated until a couple of months after launch.
And the reason behind that is because it's a fair token distribution, meaning the network starts with a supply of zero.
Nobody holds any XSAT tokens when the network launches.
There's no team allocation.
There's no foundation allocation.
All of the mining rewards go to synchronizers and data validators.
They will be the only entities that are receiving this token.
And as I mentioned, they're the largest mining pools in the world, the largest, most trusted custodians in the world.
Those are going to be the only entities that have XSAT tokens initially.
And then because they're the centralized exchanges, they're the custodians, they'll be able to market make those tokens and get them distributed wider.
But initially, when the network launches, there's going to be about a three-month period where all of the data validators and synchronizers need to acquire those tokens also.
So they're mining them, and they might want to liquidate some of them to get revenue.
But at the same time, in three months after the network launches, they'll need to stake those XSAT tokens because the hybrid consensus mechanism will kick in.
So initially, because there's no XSAT tokens, the only tokens required to be staked are the Bitcoin tokens, which everyone already has.
But once the governance kicks in a couple months after launch, then you actually have to have XSAT tokens and Bitcoin tokens staked.
So that'll kind of extend trust and also extend more game theory mechanisms, like I mentioned slashing earlier, and the ability to kind of punish bad actors.
But I don't anticipate there will be malicious bad actors.
I think the only case of a bad actor might be a node goes down or something because of some technical issue.
And in that case, maybe they would just stop earning rewards.
But there's really no way for anyone to reorg the data or anything.
It's stored in RAM.
It's synced by the top mining pools in the world.
I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out a way that they could break the trust.
So that's why I'm having a hard time even explaining a way that they could break the trust because I don't really know a way that they could do it.
So from my perspective and what I've been able to hear so far, Zach, it sounds like if you have trust in how the Bitcoin network is already functioning,
then you're able to trust everything about XSAT and how it's going to be progressing because it uses the same functionalities.
Is that a really good way to put it?
I'll chime in for Zach and say, absolutely.
Yeah, this is Brent.
Thank you, dude.
Yeah.
Here, we're kind of like playing musical laptops here.
So he didn't really catch your response.
But yeah.
Well, that's totally fine.
Should I toss things over to you, Mr. Lovejoy?
I mean, you could, but I'm probably not the biggest subject matter expert here.
I'm kind of curious if we can get Joshua to chime in.
There's the mystery man behind the XSAT account.
Ah, okay.
That's who's behind the XSAT account.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, if Joshua is able to answer, I would love to actually get a deeper understanding about what users will actually benefit from XSAT.
But I know that it's probably something, what, like mostly, honestly, Bitcoin miners or mining pools?
Or do actual Bitcoin holders actually benefit from this as well?
Okay.
This is Josh.
I can take that question.
So for the mining pools, actually, they can generate a new revenue stream.
So they can participate in XSAT's data consensus extension protocol.
Also, that one explained by Zag before.
So earning rewards from submitting and verifying Bitcoin block data, which means that they can get the rewards, like up to 50% of the portion from the token generation of XSAT.
And also, I mean, for the validators, we are like verifying the data and put the signature on chance that they can also get another 50% of the token from the portion.
That's for validators.
And also, I think for the like normal BTC holders, they can just delegate their Bitcoin to the specific validators so that they can help like raise the staking amount of their validators and also join the staking process to earn revenue on the yield from the like XSAT generation.
So that's the benefit they can get from the XSAT.
Yeah.
And I just want to add to that because I forgot to mention it when you asked the first question, which is like why we're here and business development.
There's a trend happening right now in the Bitcoin ecosystem, especially mainly amongst the miners.
Ever since the Bitcoin halving in April, obviously, the mining revenue got cut in half.
So now more than ever, Bitcoin miners are open to and interested in bringing in additional revenue streams.
So that's why BD has been going so well.
One of the reasons.
Also, just the technology that XSAT brings and the data extension protocol.
But I think you'll see a lot of other layer choose and different things, different types of networks being launched over the next couple of months where you'll see a lot of Bitcoin miner participation that you would have never seen before.
And it's mainly just it's a business model thing.
Everyone needs to make revenue.
The Bitcoin mining rewards got cut in half.
The Bitcoin price hasn't gone on its typical run that it does every four years.
Hopefully that will still happen.
But basically, the Bitcoin price is the same price that it was at the Bitcoin halving in April.
So it still has to kind of go through its cycle.
But for right now, everyone's looking for additional revenue streams of the Bitcoin miner.
Now, interestingly enough, Zach, I actually was working with a Bitcoin mining operation before I started at GenZio.
And so hearing you say that there's a new way for miners to create income, to have another revenue stream in their gambit, honestly, it's greatly appreciated.
I know that since they're having things of, quote unquote, not gone according to plan, which honestly, I feel like a lot of us expected there to be an actual run up of things and how they were supposed to be progressing almost naturally on this four to four year rotation.
Do you still see Bitcoin going up in 2025, though?
Is that part of your your thought process?
Are you following the Donald Trump stuff?
Are you following?
Oh, no, I definitely am.
I know you are.
I know you are.
But yeah, so there's a lot of expectations.
As far as I could tell, he will be the next president of the United States.
That's what the polls are showing.
So everything that he says that is part of his platform is going to carry a lot of weight.
It's going to carry weight of not just a presidential candidate, but the most likely president elect.
And as we get closer to the election, that will probably become more clear.
Obviously, anything can change.
But there's been discussion recently of like making Bitcoin a reserve currency or part of the reserve in the treasury.
One of the rumors I heard and unvalidated, of course, but we recently saw Germany selling billions of dollars of Bitcoin that they seized in a criminal case.
The United States also holds a lot of Bitcoin from criminal cases around 11 billion dollars at today's value.
I think it's like 250,000 Bitcoin or something like that.
I heard that one of the things that will come up in a speech on Saturday is that they will make a guarantee that the United States is never going to or never, but they're not going to sell that Bitcoin.
They're actually going to hold it as the initial treasury for the Bitcoin reserve fund.
So that will give guarantees that the United States will not liquidate their Bitcoin like Germany did.
And it will also kickstart the conversation that you probably saw on the news of kind of treating Bitcoin similar to gold, where you hear of like countries holding like stockpiles of gold, like in Fort Knox, for example.
So it's similar to that, where the United States under Donald Trump would potentially hold and acquire a lot of Bitcoin as just like a reserve.
Funnily enough, Zach, I've actually heard this.
This is the second time in two days about how Trump will be putting a bunch of Bitcoin in Fort Knox.
And honestly, I can't, I can't get that picture out of my mind of him just being like, all right, where's the actual Bitcoins?
How are we supposed to pick them up?
I heard there's not even any golden Fort Knox.
It doesn't have gold because it has Bitcoin.
It all lives on a ledger in Donald Trump's desk drawer.
Yep.
And honestly, I feel like a lot of us can appreciate the fact that the United States could stand to hold a substantial amount of Bitcoin and honestly keep it in regards to how things are progressing.
That would be a really good way to cushion themselves and potentially even help out with inflation in the long run.
So I'm right there with you.
I hopefully will be able to see that in the near future, especially with how things are progressing with Trump.
On the other side of the fence, I have less confidence in regards to what they might do as far as regulations go.
And honestly, I've heard that Gary Gensler may actually be stepping down or resigning if Trump does take office as well.
So as far as I'm concerned, that's technically another win for the crypto community.
I read so much. I don't know what to believe, what not to believe.
There was all those rumors about Jamie Dimon getting some cabinet roll, and I did not like that.
But then that rumor was dispelled.
So I was glad to see that that's not the case.
What other rumors are there for this week?
There's rumors Elon's going to be here.
It's like a separate from Trump.
But what other rumors have you heard for this week in Nashville?
I have heard that they are trying to get Kamala Harris to do another speaking session, aside from the Trump speaking session, aside from the RFK Jr. speaking session.
I saw that on Twitter from Bitcoin Magazine. They posted it yesterday.
Yeah, yeah.
Whether or not it's going to happen, I don't know.
It would be very interesting.
I don't think that very many people would be receptive to Harris being there, quite honestly.
Just based on some of the comments I saw on Twitter in regards to her showing up.
Yeah, there's just, there's not a lot of love on that side of the aisle, so it would seem.
Now, I really am curious, because to me, this seems like it's a, almost like a separate layer, aside from where Bitcoin is going to be, but still has the respect, and still has the security that Bitcoin is placing behind it.
But how will this make, honestly, this layer different from others, such as, like, graph or the B-squared network?
I can take that one.
Oh, go ahead.
Yeah, but that's a go ahead.
So, are you talking about the graph, as in graph protocol?
Yes, indeed.
So, I think the graph is, though there is some similarities, though, there's an overlap.
The graph is targeting off-chain applications, like web and mobile apps.
XSAT is, could be used like the graph to some degree, because we are storing the state on-chain, and you could traverse it in similar ways.
But the ability to have smart contract interactions with data from XSAT makes XSAT much more powerful and useful.
You could actually write smart contracts that listen to all of those things, or do things because of something that happened on Bitcoin, or just do things with the data on Bitcoin, aggregate it different ways, return it in different ways, et cetera, et cetera.
I don't know much about B-squared to be able to make comparisons.
I'd rather not wing it.
Maybe Joshua has information about B-squared?
Yeah, I think B-squared is providing Bitcoin layer to a solution that scales Bitcoin for ruins, and will integrate with a lot of other raw apps, because it's using the ZK technology.
So, they want to build a base of ZK technology.
But I think so far, as everyone knows, that Bitcoin doesn't support the smart contracts.
So, the ZK proof cannot be verified directly in the Bitcoin's ecosystem or the Bitcoin's scripts.
So, I don't think the ZK technology can be approved in a very short time.
So, that's, I think, a long-term goal for these kind of projects at B-squared to find, I mean, explore the possibilities to support the ZK technology there.
And also, for the, like, the, for our, like, exit project, I think the thing here is that we are positioning, we are the layer 1.5 layer, right?
So, we are trying to build a fundamental protocols for the BTC ecosystem, including, like, we already said, the data consensus extension protocol.
And also, we want to provide a decentralized state index for the ecosystem to help issue different kinds of ecosystem assets, like Ordinal protocols and the ruins protocols.
And also, we believe that we will, in the near future, we will have the new protocols to support users or developers to issue more kinds of ecosystem projects for BTC ecosystem,
because that's the meaning, we can raise the transaction fee there.
So, now, also, we ought to want to provide a decentralized asset custody service, which means that, like, for B-squared or for any other, like, side chains or layer 2 state,
they need to have the asset custody service, their own asset custody service to take custody of their assets breached from BTC native and any other chains.
But we think it's, like, a fundamental service and it's a common requirement for every chain.
So, we want to, like, build a decentralized one to provide a service to every chain for the side chain or the roll-ups so that everyone can use the same asset custody service for the ecosystem.
So, that will be secure, transparent, and auditable for everyone to check the asset store in the decentralized asset custody service.
So, yeah, that's the thing.
I think Excel wants to provide these features different from the graph and also B-squared network and any other layer 2 or raw projects.
So, what I'm understanding out of that is that this is kind of not only increasing the security behind it, but you're also giving someone the opportunity to build on something that's trusted and already has the building capabilities.
And in regards to the other opportunities, per se, with the other networks, there's still some functionality that's lacking.
And so, XSAT is going to be giving you, honestly, more capabilities right from the start to build out your project and have that trusted system behind it.
So, honestly, I'm pretty excited for it.
I know that, yes, it does sound like anyone can really benefit from this if they're enjoying the Bitcoin blockchain.
My question, I guess, from here is where do you guys see things progressing?
Where do you think the Extend Satoshi Project will benefit people the most?
And I'll leave that open to either Zach or even Nathan as someone who's about to be building on XSAT.
I'm sorry, I missed, I had to answer a question.
Could you ask it again?
Of course.
So, as people are able to see that there is not only the increase in security and also the trust that is provided by the Bitcoin blockchain,
what do you think the future of XSAT will be?
What kind of projects are you expecting to be built and how will this be benefiting the Bitcoin network as a whole?
Ideally, other layer twos tap into it as its data availability layer.
So, you mentioned the graph protocol earlier.
The graph is essentially just organizing a bunch of on-chain data so that other applications could not have to build it themselves.
Like, the same kind of goes for XSAT, where it's collecting all the UTXO data from trusted entities, the Bitcoin miners themselves.
It's being, the data is being validated by large custodians and trusted centralized exchanges.
So, like, it's all of the work to collect that data, organize that data, and validate that data has been done.
So, if you're building your own layer two and you needed all of that information anyway, like, it's a lot harder to, like, build it yourself than to just tap into this open network that already exists.
So, like, making that graph comparison, like, anyone could fork the graph and run their own graph, but most people don't.
Most people just use the graph because it's there.
They don't have to maintain it themselves.
They don't have to incentivize the validators and the graph protocols.
I forget what their node operators are called.
But they don't have to, like, run over that infrastructure themselves.
So, it's just, it's a perfect, like, that's why we're calling it a layer 1.5, because the goal is that the layer twos tap into it themselves.
Like, it's a lot of redundant work for everyone to be doing the same thing whenever they could just tap into this source that already exists, this data source.
I think on top of the actual cost of development, which is considerable, there's also the considerable cost of putting that data into somewhere.
So, a lot of these other projects that I've looked at, they're either putting it on some kind of IPFS or decentralized storage.
Not many of them are actually putting it on chain.
I actually, I don't think I've seen a single one that was putting it on a chain directly.
And this is all taken care of for them by XSAT itself or by the participants.
So, as a developer, what I look for when I want to build something is I look for what's the easiest to use and along as a byproduct of what is the easiest to use, what is also the least work for me to set up, the least work for me to maintain, the least work, the least cost for me to maintain and set up.
And for something like this, for anything really, I always prefer to have some kind of, like Zach mentioned, some kind of entity that's running this for me that I can just, even if I have to pay them a monthly cost, but preferably not, I could just tap into some data, get what I need from it, and then go about my business.
So, I don't really want to have to interact with a bunch of different services.
Anybody who has built something which is, let's say, a large application, you know that you're already dealing with tens of APIs, minimum tens of SDKs, software developing kits and whatnot.
You don't really want to add more and more to your stack because it becomes very cumbersome, makes it hard to develop things.
Every little change you want to do takes longer.
So, when you can reduce your workload, it's an easy instant win for a developer or a CTO or a company who's looking at this and going, okay, well, if we use this, we're not going to have to pay XX amount of dollars per month, per year, whatever it might be, in order to uphold this stuff, develop this stuff, and do everything that we need to do.
So, from an infrastructure standpoint, you're taking out the cost of, basically, it sounds like almost like 40% to 60% of the infrastructure right at the base, just by people being able to build on top of XSAT.
So, Nathan, as someone who's going to be building on top of XSAT, what are your goals with it?
How will you be showcasing your project via XSAT?
So, before I answer that, I actually want to, I'd say we're removing 100% of the cost because there are a significant amount of public nodes already for the underlying blockchain, which is EOS, and you don't really have to run your own node.
You can just tap into these freely and et cetera.
I'm not sure what that might look like for XSAT if there's a requirement for a custom RPC endpoint there.
I think there is, but still, there will be public RPC endpoints.
It's kind of a thing that we have in EOS.
I don't know when it began.
It probably began at the very start, but there are very few privatized pay-as-you-go nodes just because there are many, many public ones.
So, I'm hoping it'll follow suit there.
I'm not really sure if it will because it isn't very common in blockchain or in development at all, actually, I should say.
But I'm hoping that it'll follow suit.
So, it's possible that it will be much larger than 60%, even approaching 200% of the costs for that kind of stuff.
As far as what I'm going to attempt to build right now, I really wanted to see what kinds of applications I can throw at this.
It's kind of one of those things.
You know, it's like when the Apple Store came out, the App Store for Apple came out.
All doors were open.
You could do anything that was possible within the constraints of the APIs for the iPhone.
And it led people to do some really funky, weird stuff.
I mean, the most downloaded app back then was just a flashlight for the phone, which lit up your screen because they didn't have flashlights back then.
So, sometimes it's just tinkering around with these systems to figure out what can be done, which leads to the coolest things that are done.
And that's kind of how I want to approach this.
I'm not quite sure which directions I want to take yet.
I want to just mess around with some data, see what I can do, see how I can trigger things,
document all of those things as I go through, make some template projects for other people to also be able to understand.
Just give it the good old go.
So, it sounds like this is honestly an ecosystem expander, where it sounds like almost anyone from DeFi, GameFi, NFTs, payments,
they'll all have an opportunity to build on here.
Is that correct?
Absolutely.
I think there's also some things, if I'm not mistaken, with the comparison to the graph,
I think there's some things that you could do easier on XSAT than you could do elsewhere,
because you have all of this data, but it's just raw data, right?
You still need to create these transformers.
Creating subgraphs for the graph isn't the simplest thing in the world,
and also you have to start learning all of those languages, and you have to learn GraphQL and all this.
And it is a pain in the ass.
I've done it before.
Not something I would like to do again.
But for these transformers, if you already have all of this data on chain,
you could simply write this either in C++ or in Solidity or the codes that are already supported by blockchain developers,
and then it reduces that curve.
So you're not only bringing new things to the table, but you're also bringing new things to the table in a way that developers appreciate
and the way they already expect them to be, which I think is just an instant winner.
Well, I can get behind that.
If it's an instant winner, it's definitely something to be watching.
Honestly, I am still curious about how other ways that we can use XSAT,
how we can extend our own kind of goals at this point in time.
What do you think it's going to take right from the start to be building on XSAT?
Do you think it's going to be a complicated process?
Is it going to be more plug-and-play?
Or is this going to be something where you can just slowly kind of work your way into the system
and build up from there?
Well, as a developer, so we have to separate this into two different things.
You have the actual XSAT network and how it functions with the validators and the synchronizers and all of that.
As a developer, I don't really care about that.
It doesn't matter to me.
I want to know that it's secure.
I want to know the basic functionalities of it because it's important that I understand that
the same way that a developer needs to understand how a CPU works or something like that.
But digging deep into it, don't really need to know anything about it.
What I do need to know is that there is a specific structure on-chain for the data,
which I can then tap into.
And that I already know how to do now with the existing knowledge without ever having touched XSAT.
So I know how blockchain state works.
I know how blockchain smart contracts works.
I know how I'll be able to access that data, theoretically.
Given all of those things to be true, I can already tell you exactly how I would do that.
I can just go pull the tables.
I can start messing with the data myself.
I don't have to go and learn XSAT specifically.
I can just use the existing knowledge that I have.
And I think I'm not really sure what to do with the data yet because there's just infinite
possibilities, right?
You know, I could sit down right now with a notion, an empty notion, and just start farming
out ideas and then select one that's good.
But there is infinite ideas.
You could do anything with the data, the same as you could do it right now, except now you
can do it easier on-chain without having to oracleize this yourself, without having to
go through layer twos or ZK or all of these added things on top, which kind of, they mess
with the learning curve for a lot of people.
There's not many people that actually know how to do like ZKVM and how to actually wrap
their head around how that works.
And this is just much simpler.
You don't have to deal with any of that stuff.
It's just stayed on the blockchain, go fetch it, do what you want with it.
And that opens all possibilities.
Well, that sounds really exciting.
Not going to lie.
When it comes down to being able to build on a new network, I know that the ease of use,
the ease of the ability for a developer to start getting things going, that can be a large
barrier, especially in Web3, where not everyone is as confident on building something on a
new blockchain right away.
And so you see people kind of stumble their way through different protocols, different
layer twos, just trying to figure out where their project is going to fall in line.
But it sounds like from your description where there's a lot of these things where they've
already been built.
There's already a lot of framework involved.
You don't need to kind of go down the large hassle route of figuring out something completely
different.
So that's, honestly, that's really great to hear from the developer side of things.
Now, on the flip side of it, where genuinely, when you want to build out a project, where
is your biggest interest?
Like, is it in GameFi?
Is it in DeFi?
Is there something within Web3 that really calls to you?
I've dabbled in everything.
I would say, and this is very personal, right?
So I've been a gamer for a very long time, you know, back since, like, the first Nintendo
or even before that.
And I think that speaks a lot to me.
What hasn't spoken to me with GameFi is a lot of the games are very similar.
They're all very focused on money.
They're not very fun.
And I don't, it's not necessarily the fault of the people developing.
It's sometimes the fault of the blockchains that it's developed on because you just have
constraints, right?
Like, you can't build, I like first-person shooters, and you can't really build a first-person
shooter on Ethereum, right?
Or Bitcoin or any of these typically slower networks because you just can't.
There's no possible way.
On EOS, however, we have this thing called instant finality coming out soon, which is
going to lower the finality of transactions to between sub one second to maximum a couple
seconds, which is still quite high.
However, you could do some aggregation there for an FPS for a first-person shooter and
actually accomplish some of those things.
Or real-time strategy games or, and by real-time, I mean actual real-time, not turn-based, let's
say StarCraft, not necessarily chess or something like that, right?
So you could do those in a network which has that low latency slash low finality, whereas
you can't really do that elsewhere.
And that would be something that I would appreciate seeing, especially when you have the ability
to tap into things like other chain state, Bitcoin as a perfect example, because it just
has the mass of the mindshare of blockchain.
And being able to take those assets from those other chains onto a chain which does have high
performance, EOS has the highest ever, I think it's transactions per day or operations
per day at like 81.5 million or something like that.
It blows the rest of them out of the water.
And being able to have a chain like that, which then also has very sub-second instant
finalities leading to the ability to open up new genres of GameFi where the game would
actually be fun, I think that's really exciting for me personally.
I have been dabbling, of course, with DeFi for a long time.
That is quite interesting.
NFT is not really my thing.
But so yeah, I'd say GameFi the most under that DeFi, most exciting for me.
That's actually really cool to hear.
I feel like most of Web3 is actually just built by gamers in the long run because we're the
ones that wanted to push for greater power with GPUs.
We're the ones that wanted better motherboards.
We're the ones that continuously are tweaking our own computers to make sure that we could
get the most out of it for graphics in every single way.
Honestly, when it comes down to gameplay and how things have progressed with Web3, I feel
like that's the natural place where a lot of us want to go.
So it's very cool to hear that that's a very true possibility of us seeing on XSAT.
I think gamers are a little more technically adept too.
So I think a gamer has a lot easier time going and opening a blockchain wallet versus somebody
who hasn't been on the computer as much as a gamer.
A lot of gamers just live on a computer.
It's like second nature to them.
So there's a definite lowering of entry barrier for them.
Funny you should say that.
I had this talk with one of my friends the other day where he was trying to get into Web3.
And I basically gave him the quick discussion of, okay, so you know how every single new
game that we start, we have to go through their whole entire startup process where basically
you're just clicking through it.
That way you can get your account set up and then you're good to go.
I was like, that's just starting a Web3 wallet on any blockchain whatsoever.
You just need to like get your codes real quick.
Everything started up.
I love that.
It says it's your name and then you're good to go.
And he was totally for that.
How have we not, oh my God, how have we not created some web UI that just leads it through
like it's some game, like an RPG, like, oh, here's your magic material, which you need
to save.
You know, like it makes so much sense.
They did this with teaching developers.
They had the crypto zombies thing, but you don't do it for users.
Actually, I love that idea.
Yeah, no, it felt like it really sunk in for him in comparison to some of my other friends.
Just the ability for him to be like, okay, so basically any single wallet that I start,
no matter what blockchain it in, it's just like starting a new game.
And I was like, yeah.
Yeah.
So it's been perfect.
I've been able to get him started on, I think, like two different Bitcoin wallets.
He finally figured out his own MetaMask.
That was really funny.
And honestly, we've been able to start even trying to try out some Web3 games together
because he is very interested in what we can actually play together online beyond just
our console systems and the occasional computer game.
So it's been really cool there.
I think that could backfire because gamers like me, I said, I think that could backfire
because you have gamers like me where I'm like, oh, a cut scene, skip, skip.
And I would just skip all of that stuff.
So I can see how, yes, there are a lot of people that want to cut scenes.
They want to make sure that they're skipping the commercial at the beginning of the YouTube,
all that kind of stuff.
But most of this, as far as like starting a new wallet, is so simple that working on
a new blockchain, it's very simple.
It's just a matter of are you willing to take the time to go through the quick tutorial?
That kind of seems like it's the main piece for me.
And that's how I've kind of operated the whole entire time.
Like even when I first got into crypto, I left Cryptographic Communications working in
the Navy where I was like, oh, this is something that I really understand, I really get.
And someone was like, oh, you should try crypto.
And I didn't understand at the time that there's a lot more than, there's a lot less on some
sides, but also still some cryptographic communications in crypto itself.
But it was very interesting to make the conversion.
And now it really has been like this kind of subtype game along the way, which is really
fun for me, where even at times I know people will tell me this and I've told them myself,
like it's it's very easy to look at crypto as funny money because it's hard to believe
that it's real at times.
It's like, oh, this is just credits in my video game.
I can always earn more credits in my video game if I go out and do this task or if I work
on this protocol or if I go and do research on this thing.
And so it really does feel like a game for me most of the time.
Now, I am going to toss things back to XSAT because I am very curious.
How can new people get involved with XSAT?
Well, hopefully those new people are at Nashville right now this week and they come meet us at
the XSAT booth.
So the other thing is the stage where all the Layer 2s and open source projects are going
to be speaking.
There's multiple stages at the conference this week.
XSAT's one of the stage sponsors, too.
So as far as name recognition and getting that first touch point with a lot of developers,
I think it was called the open source stage, but I think it's called the Genesis stage now.
I don't have the map in front of me.
But either way, in my mind, it's the XSAT stage because it's completely XSAT branded.
All the chair covers are XSAT branded.
So basically all of the developer talks, all of the developer panels are going to be on that
stage and we'll have people like stationed all throughout the day, both at the stage
and at the XSAT booth.
We've got, I believe, 14 people here at the conference.
So most of them are focused on business development, but then also, you know, like marketing and
comms and just normal booth stuff.
So that's going to be a big part of it.
We also have a videographer.
We're going to be recording a lot of, with everyone here in person, recording a lot of
like interviews and talks.
And on top of that, have many different like media interviews scheduled also to help kind
of get the word out.
And also GenZo too.
GenZo is one of those helpers.
And we love being one of those helpers, Zach.
Honestly, you guys are an incredible company to work with.
Genuinely, it's always fun having our weekly discussions.
I am actually curious though, who on the team will be speaking at Bitcoin conference?
So Eve LaRose will be giving a keynote on Friday afternoon.
I don't remember the exact time.
And then, man, I don't have this information for me.
And then Tristan, our CMO, will be on a panel, a Bitcoin panel.
I think it's also on Friday.
But like I said, I don't have it in front of me right now.
And I'm juggling a million things.
So they'll both be on stage.
But then the media, my next call right after this is actually with our PR team to go over
all the media interviews.
So I can't even name those off either.
But there's at least like eight to 10 we have lined up.
So those won't be on stage necessarily.
But they'll get distribution through media publications.
I can definitely appreciate that.
I know as far as the Gen Z side of things go, we're taking our time not releasing out
who all we're doing interviews with.
But if people are looking to do interviews, feel free to contact us as well, because we're
more than happy to get into talks.
Genuinely, it's really cool to see what you guys are building.
I'm glad that you guys are actually going to be at the Bitcoin conference as well.
It sounds like you have a rather large team there, which will definitely help for the
sheer amount of people that will want to talk to you.
Are there any people at the Bitcoin conference that you're exceptionally looking to meet or
trying to get an interview with yourself?
I mean, to meet our BD list is in the hundreds and they've been being like contacted over
the last couple of weeks and meetings are lined up.
So as much as I love media, because that's kind of my side of the business, I'm more kind
of excited about how all of the BD meetings and in-person face-to-faces go, because that's
really what's going to be underpinning the network itself and really driving its success.
Because like I said earlier, once the network does launch, it is a fair token distribution.
The only holders of the tokens are going to be the initial validators and synchronizers.
So they're really going to be the megaphones and mouthpieces of the network also.
So that's, I think, there's some very large mining pools.
So the largest, the number one mining pool in the world is based in the United States,
for example.
So that one, there have not been any in-person meetings with leading up to this week.
Most of the mining pool meetings have been Asia-based.
The other thing I'm excited about is that our team is globally kind of split.
So we have a good chunk of the team in North America and somewhat in Europe too, like Nathan.
But then we have a large part of our team that's based out of Asia also.
And they've been doing a lot of the business development leading up to this point.
They were in Bitcoin Hong Kong a couple of weeks ago or a month ago and did a lot of good
work there.
But for this conference, because it's the biggest one in the world, 16,000, 16 to 20,000
people expected.
It's in North America, which we are just kind of ramping up on the BD front.
Bringing the entire team together, I think, is also important.
Just for information sharing, it's really hard to sink across time zones whenever you're 12
hours apart.
There's not a whole lot of overlap between East Coast time and Asia time.
So you're pretty much working on the edges of the day as far as when you have calls even.
So having everyone in person in the same place.
I know a lot of the world has moved to remote work and in blockchain, it's almost always
been remote work.
But nothing really replaces in-person culture building and information sharing.
So a big part of what I'm looking forward to is actually spending time with my own team,
people that I only see on Zoom, people that I don't see enough and don't get to speak
to enough.
So for example, Joshua, who's on the XSAT account right now, being able to spend time
with him, he's probably the most knowledgeable person on the product of XSAT.
So that's invaluable to me, is just being able to pick people's brains in person and spend
hours and hours every day with them for multiple days in a row.
Well, hopefully your team appreciates the sheer amount of time that is going into this.
It definitely sounds like it.
I know that from my perspective, with the sheer amount of communication it takes to get one
of these projects going and to keep it continuing to proliferate and genuinely build, it is a
lot of hard work.
It's a lot of genuine communication.
And it's a lot of time spent just brainstorming to make sure that you guys are coming to the
right solutions together, because then you can all coalesce on that idea.
And when you mentioned the 12-hour time change, one of my best friends in the whole entire
world, it's another Navy veteran, he is most of the time in Thailand.
So whenever it comes down to when we communicate, it's usually on the fringes of the day, unless
one of us is staying up later into our own day.
So I can really appreciate how that sort of communication can be a little bit difficult
at times.
But genuinely, it sounds like it's paying off, and I'm really excited to get to see
you guys and be at your booth, especially at Bitcoin Conference.
Now, for anyone that's not going to be at Bitcoin Conference, is there some way that they can
get in touch with you guys or an easy way to get started on the XSAT network?
So yeah, there's a dedicated email.
If it's a project or a developer, it'd be just bd.network, as far as an email address.
But other than that, go to the website, there's a Telegram group, follow the Twitter account,
there'll be a lot of information being shared.
And I guess just follow the media.
So there's, I think in an hour, another validator is about to be announced.
So one of the largest staking pools in the world is being announced as a validator today.
Like I said, the testnet launch will be announced later this week.
So the information will be out there.
But the best thing to do is just follow us on Twitter, join the Telegram group.
And if you have business-related questions, send an email to bd.network.
XSAT.network.
Whew.
Okay.
Thank you so much, Zach.
Honestly, the whole entire team here, XSAT Networks, it sounds like Joshua behind the account, Nathan, Lovejoy.
Genuinely, it's been an absolute pleasure getting to talk to you guys this morning.
I'm really excited to get to see you guys in Nashville.
As I said, I'll be traveling there tomorrow morning.
Honestly, this is going to be exciting.
I haven't seen any project quite like this before, but there's a lot of potential.
There's a lot of things to build off of.
I know from the GameFi mindset, it's really exciting because it seems like it's going to be easy for developers to start to build on this.
I was going to make the joke earlier that I think Doom has already been built on Bitcoin in some form or fashion.
But it sounds like Doom built on XSAT would be even faster.
Which, from my perspective, if I can play my game faster, yeah, I'll do that.
It's always a fun time.
So, is there any last words?
I can give each of you your own little time to kind of say what you want to say about XSAT.
I'll toss it to Lovejoy first.
Any last words before we start to close things up here?
Oh, you caught me.
You caught me in another tab, lost in another tab somewhere.
I would just also say be sure to join the XSAT network telegram.
So, it's just XSAT network, XSAT network.
I forgot.
Sorry to jump in.
There's so much going on that I forgot.
I think Ashton, maybe you're having a call about this right now.
But at the booth today or this week, we have physical swag and activation.
Follow us on Twitter.
Retweet something and get your swag.
But there's also going to be contests going on in the Telegram group also.
So, those contests are going to be available for everyone virtually and who signed up in person.
So, to add on to what Brandon just said, join the Telegram group because there's going to be a bot that basically lets you join little like raffles to win like real prizes in USDT.
But yeah, extra of a monetary incentive to join the Telegram group even if you're not at the conference.
And then once you're in there, then it'll be easier to follow the project and join the group.
So, you took the words right out of my mouth.
My man.
Yeah, I totally forgot if that was even.
I know.
It's all coming together like kind of at the last moment here.
But, you know, it's going to be a good time.
And I hope everyone can join either virtually or in person.
And I'm excited to meet everybody here.
Nathan?
Always a pleasure.
Huge.
Okay.
It's going to be huge.
Honestly, yeah, I'm excited to hear that a lot more this week.
So, from my understanding, it sounds like people who are not going to be at the actual Bitcoin conference, you still have an opportunity to get some free swag, to get in on some potential raffles, and to enjoy the social media that will be shared.
So, please make sure you are joining the XSAT telegram.
It sounds like there's a lot more going to be happening this week than even I imagined as far as XSAT goes.
I'm excited to see what kind of gear and swag you guys actually have.
I know that every time I go to one of these conferences, I feel like I need a separate suitcase for the sheer amount of swag that you can bring home.
So, hopefully we can fill up one of these.
It'll be a fun time.
Thank you guys so much for joining us this morning.
Seriously, I really appreciate it.
Zach, it's always a pleasure to get to talk to you.
Same to you, Lovejoy.
It's truly awesome.
I appreciate our weekly conversations a lot just from the learning perspective as far as what XSAT is going to become and what you guys are building on the day-to-day.
So, honestly, if you guys have the opportunity, go and check out their booth.
They will be at Bitcoin Nashville.
They're already there right now.
So, if you need something from them, if you're trying to build on XSAT, if you're trying to learn more about what XSAT can do for you, make sure you're reaching out to these guys.
Make sure you're following everyone on the panel up here.
If you see EOS Network, make sure that you're following them as well because I'm sure somewhere along the way you'll see a little bit of overlap.
But they are always helpful.
They are always willing to talk to you, discuss things, and genuinely, it has been amazing so far.
So, if you guys have anything else that you're trying to shout out or say to everyone in the space, please feel free to do so now.
Otherwise, we'll start closing things up.
I think that was the best wrap-up.
Perfect, perfect.
Well, I will see you guys tomorrow.
I'm looking forward to it.
Thank you so much for joining us, XSAT.
Right on.
See you guys later.
Peace, y'all.
Peace.
Peace, y'all.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
