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FED Witch Hunt, Hedera x WEF = ****?!, X Algo Cooked?
Recorded: Jan. 12, 2026 Duration: 1:00:28Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent roundtable discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the implications of the Federal Reserve's shifting policies, the potential impact of political dynamics on the market, and the growing interest in cryptocurrencies like HBAR. The conversation also highlighted strategic partnerships and the importance of institutional engagement at events like the World Economic Forum.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Music Thank you. Music Thank you. man man man you guys do not know how much i love x especially when it boots me for my own space so
i love it so much guys seriously. Seriously, it's quite fantastic.
But anyways, welcome back to another Hedera Roundtable.
Got my lovely panel of speakers here.
A lot happening over the weekend, kind of crazy stuff.
But before we get into it, I would love to see how everyone's doing.
Nat, I sent you a co-host invite.
I would love to hear how your weekend was.
My weekend was actually pretty, pretty chill.
What we did, my daughter and and my son uh what we do
sometimes is we do like this little uh family painting painting session so in our the lower
level of our home I kind of like blocked off a little section for like art stuff and my daughter
painted some very beautiful painting and then my then my son is obviously a little baby.
So we had to like guide his hand and stuff.
But what I did this morning, early this morning,
I hung those paintings up on my wall.
So now we have a beautiful art wall in our home
done by my kids.
Wow, that's amazing.
I'm actually building out my nursery right now for my my soon-to-be
daughter um lots of lots of stuff came in from the baby shower and uh it was uh it's a lot it's
a lot to deal with uh my wife's like you need to build the crib you need to build all this stuff
you need to paint the room you need to do this and that so i have like my my chore list is just
like stacked beyond belief but really happy to hear that um no way
when's the baby due uh march 2nd march 2nd congratulations man that's awesome man dude
thank you man yeah it's uh it's i'm i've been saying this every space i'm like nervous and
terrified but also very excited last night i felt her kick a ton um like she was just like let me
out of here kind of thing and i was like whoa it was crazy dude is this uh yeah
has your wife been experiencing braxton hicks yet those are like wild uh not yet no she um she said
the baby is just now starting to kick her organs though so she's like getting punched in the spine
and she's like ow those are the moments man yeah i uh i'm just like thank god i'm not doing that
just every time that happens i'm thinking to myself like, like, whoo, I lucked out.
I was like, yeah, this is great.
For me, it was the 2 a.m. kicks to my bladder.
Oh, my God.
Those are very fun.
Yeah, oh, man.
It's a lot.
I'm really, really excited.
But, yeah, yesterday, guys, yesterday was insane.
Last night, actually, the Fed, I'm trying to post this now, the Fed actually, Jerome Powell released this.
The Federal Reserve account actually tweeted this from their account about how the DOJ is basically on a witch hunt.
That's what Powell is saying.
The DOJ is on a witch hunt for Powell because he's not appeasing Trump, I guess.
He's not lowering interest rates like Trump and every other president in the history of the fed's inception there would like love the fed to
do um but uh the the doj is claiming that the fed spent way too much money on these new buildings
they're building out like billions of dollars uh so there's like a you know a couple arguments here
but i would love your guys thoughts on this uh because it's it's very interesting i know we're
a hedera space of course i do want to get into some Hedera stuff that
I saw as well, but I would love people's thoughts on this, seeing as how this is, I mean, it's
massive.
I mean, the Federal Reserve doesn't just post videos like this willy-nilly, you know, so
it's a very, very massive piece of news in the market series.
Now, I want to throw back to you, and I want to hear from the entire panel on this as well.
Yeah, so I think this is very interesting, but for me, it's not surprising that this is happening.
In December, Trump was actually doing a press conference in Florida and he did allude to the possibility of a lawsuit gearing towards Jerome Powell.
And I didn't foresee it happening this fast, right? Because this was literally like
two weeks ago or two and a half weeks ago. So the fact that we're here now this fast makes things a
little bit very interesting. And for me, it also puts into question the independence of the Fed.
Now, granted, I don't think the Fed is going to go away at all. I think they may have to
adjust certain things, but this is all very interesting to say the least.
Yeah, it's certainly interesting.
Hashback, I would love your thoughts.
I saw you throwing some reactions up there.
Yeah, I mean, it just goes to show the state of things, broadly speaking, especially in the US,
and it reflects and it ripples all across the world in the G7 for sure.
G7 for sure but it's just like we're into the intersection phase and like Trump has been like
But it's just like we're into the intersection phase.
really like he's an actor he's a disturbance for sure like for better or worse I would say
is that going to be good or bad broadly speaking for the US who knows we're about to find out but
that's unprecedented I mean those two entities need to be like remaining like independent as
hard as possible for sure man i mean that just makes sense
but at the same time you know we'll see what happens uh he's been over jay powell's back
like since like since he got into office even before uh so we'll see we'll see uh 2026 again
is starting off like crazy um not a day boring yeah it's it's interesting indeed i mean like it's
you're i think you're right about Trump and being this disruptive force,
kind of breaking these norms and whatnot, which could be good and could be bad, of course. It has
a lot of consequences and ripple effects. But I think what I find fascinating is, and I think a
lot of us in crypto are somewhat familiar with this idea, at least, especially people who are
in love with Bitcoin or have been following Bitcoin at least, this idea of fiscal
dominance and kind of like the Fed's existence entirely, where we don't... Me personally, I'm
just going to be honest, regardless of what we're about to talk about, I can't even try to be as
objective as possible. But me personally, I don't even think the Fed should exist personally,
just based on a lot of history and stuff I've read and research I've done. But just in regards
to some stuff I've read about fiscal
dominance, and I don't know if people have read Lynn Alden's Broken Money book. It's quite an
amazing book. I highly recommend reading that book. But she talks about this idea of fiscal
dominance and how eventually, to kind of keep this short, that the Fed is almost going to be
forced to play ball with the federal government in terms of kind of heeding
their demands just based on how much debt they're accruing and the way the economy is going and such,
just to kind of keep things as simple as possible. I won't elaborate too much there,
but I think we're seeing that play out in real time here. I think this is kind of the make it
or break it point for the fiscal dominance train. As Lynn Alden puts a lot, nothing stops this train.
And I think she's spot on there.
I would love, I guess, do you agree with that, Hashback?
I would love your thoughts on that.
On a personal level, I feel on a personal level, it's a lot like the tariffs, I feel.
Again, I was talking about the intersection earlier on, and I mean, that's what this is
right now.
Folks who are all across, what's the tariff going to do good? Is it going to be bad?
Is it going to be neutral? Is it going to be whatever? If the numbers are right, folks in the
U.S. are going to have a big check. If the numbers are right, then orange men end up being good and
right. Who knows? We're maybe...
Oh, no.
Is the Fed rugging us?
I can't hear Hashtag anymore.
They told us to stop talking.
Yeah, the Fed.
J-Pow's rugging us.
Oh, God.
Keep listening.
Hashtag.
Try talking again.
Let's see if it works.
Yeah, he can't hear us anymore.
Damn.
Joe, I'm going to throw it to you because Hashtag's having issues because J-Pow just rugged him.
Probably banned his account. Joee i'd love your thoughts so i think that it's happening
because it's perfect time to strike in the u.s with such a divide um it seems like anything
that people can do to divide the citizens right now um They're taking every opportunity to do it, whether it's
social or fiscal policy. So I come from a banking background, so I'm kind of torn on the Fed.
In principle, it's kind of like communism.
It looks great on paper.
What they're supposed to be doing is not necessarily what they've been doing,
from making sure the banks are supposed to run properly to now acting in the interest of banks.
So those are kind of two different principles that people get
confused. So I don't dive too deep into it publicly. But yeah, I think that it's just a
lot of posturing. So it's interesting to see what'll come of it no for real and what i find
interesting too more even more interesting is the market's reaction to all this like i think a lot
of a lot of markets pumped today um at least slightly if i'm if i'm not mistaken my robin
hood account was green earlier so let's see if that's still the case um um yeah no it looks like
yeah bitcoin's back up at 91 hit 92 92 there briefly. I believe HBAR,
what is HBAR? No, let's look at that. Kind of moving steady as she goes. I feel like that's a
lot of altcoins at the moment, but we did see a little bit of appreciation there from, it looks
like this morning at 1568 to 1622. I'm talking about the HBAR ETF, which we have Steven up here,
which I'm actually about to throw to him next after Joe.
But I think markets reactions to this is pretty interesting.
I love your thoughts there, Joe.
Why are we pumping here on this news?
Not sure, but Stephen's here.
Why are we talking? Tell us. Yeah, look, you know, I'm going to I'm going to back it up and and and say that.
Jerome Powell, since he has been the Fed governor, has been extremely political in his decisions.
And I've been able to predict what the Fed is going to do well in advance, not based on any kind of data other than election cycles and positioning Democrats to win.
And it's painfully obvious, even when the Fed was lowering rates when they were 4.5% and higher and holding steady while it's at 2%.
And the statement that he made was an extremely political statement to get the country on his side,
to get the media on his side, and to stir up the opposition to Trump.
It's plain and simple.
And going forward, until Powell's gone, he's not going to lower rates.
I do believe the Fed should probably lower another 25 to 50 basis points.
That's what they're behind by by based on the simple yield curve.
And that's probably the best thing for the country right now because auto defaults are at a high,
not seen since the financial crisis, student loan defaults, credit card defaults, credit card
delinquencies. These are all governed by the Fed rate and short-term rates.
And that would help people if they were to actually lower rates.
But instead of lowering rates, what they've done is decided to end quantitative tightening
of the balance sheet on December 1st.
And now they're adding securities back to the balance sheet, increasing the repo facility,
which essentially does the same thing from monetary supply, but it helps the banks instead
of the American people. And when people say that the Fed should be independent, is independent,
they're not independent. They never have been. They've always been controlled by the banks, and they've always
benefited the banks. So independence isn't from the banking industry. So the banking industry has
a hold on the United States through the Fed, and it benefits them and not the people, plain and simple. So I have, again, a very strong opinion
there that until Powell is gone and a new Fed chairman is in place, we probably won't see
another rate cut. Now, what the market is speculating on and the reason why, you know, the market briefly went down and now is going back up is is because of speculation that he could be leaving sooner than later.
You know, given the subpoena and the markets like that.
And but that's that's that's really where the speculation is coming from.
Yeah, I really good points made there.
I guess I know Kalshi has an idea of who the new Fed chair would be, but what do you think, Stephen?
I'm curious.
I have no idea.
It looks like Kevin Hassett's at 44% right now.
He's leading at 44%.
Then there's Kevin Warsh.
Funny enough, my buddies made a joke about good Kevin versus bad Kevin.
Funny enough, my buddies made a joke about good Kevin versus bad Kevin.
Good Kevin is Kevin Hassett, quote, good, being that he's a Trump loyalist pretty much and that he'll probably, well, you know, he's dovish, he's in favor of QE, etc.
And then Kevin Warsh is like the CBDC goblin who's like, you know, out to control all of our money.
He's at 38 percent, it looks like.
So interesting. very interesting stuff.
But yeah, Stephen, thank you. Joe, I didn't know if that was a good education
session for you there. Did you learn?
Well, I think it's exactly what I said with a lot more eloquently and openly said.
They are, the Fed is not controlling the banks.
It's working for the banks.
So that's where the narrative flipped a long, long time ago.
So it's part of the reason that there hasn't, in my opinion, there hasn't been a push for crypto regulations and clarity either, because Republicans can say all they want
that, oh, I support this and it's the future. And yes, we know that it's going to be integrated
and the U.S. wants to lead the world in it. But when the doors are closed, a lot of politicians talk across the table, which they should.
But there's also a fear and a push from the banks.
The banks want to have control.
The banks don't want anything to happen until they fit into it and they don't lose profit.
Their bottom line is what's important, and U.S. banks are entrenched in the U.S. economy,
and they're too big to fail. We've seen it before. And if they're not going to do it through a bail
out again, they'll backdoor their way into making sure that there's plenty of money to be made
on the Web3 side, too. So I think a lot of that is right now is what's going on,
is posturing to make sure the banks are fit snugly into the future of Web3.
And they are making a lot of these decisions and getting into position
because banks are slow to move, slow to react, and slow with technology.
So if you tell them there's a new technology coming in, they're going to drag their feet and stomp and cry until they can't anymore.
And that's what's going to force the change.
But they're going to make sure that they're making money off of it.
The dream world of no more banks is never going away if you live in this country, not in our lifetime.
Yeah, I think you have a really solid point there. And to clarify, before I throw to Kabila and NatNet here, I just I just actually read this article just now, like right before the space, but Coinbase, who's been a big proponent in things like the Genius Act as
well as the Clarity Act, they're actually considering pulling support for the Clarity
Act here because the Genius Act kind of opened the door to stopping stablecoin rewards, like
direct stablecoin rewards.
But it kind of left it up to third party exchanges, if you will.
But the Clarity Act, you have a lot of like bank lobbyists, like pro bank lobbyists are
actually trying to make it so you cannot earn direct yield from stablecoins through DeFi protocols.
And Coinbase is really pissed about that.
Coinbase is trying to halt that at all.
They're in the ears of the legislators going, hey, listen, don't do this.
And they're really worried that this might go through.
Because just like Joe said, the banks have a massive grip hold on everything
here, pretty much on the root of our financial system here.
And I think they'll lose up to like $6 trillion, if I remember correctly, up to $6 trillion
of yield or maybe billion.
I'm dumb.
Obviously, it's trillion, billion.
Can't make the difference here, guys, on spaces here.
I just woke up.
But it's a lot of money. They're going to lose a lot of money here of course but kabil i'm gonna throw it
to you and i want to hear from nat net as well yeah no just um good day by the way everybody
um just a quick question when is the new fat year uh taking in his position is it in in june i think
um the nomination is happening in like a week or two i think so like trump's gonna nominate
someone but the um the actual like anointing of a new chair won't happen until i think june yeah
that's when that's when powell leaves yeah exactly okay so there's not a lot of time anymore for the
market to actually uh bearishly respond to uh rate cuts, I guess,
because it's only half a year before the new fat year takes its position. And we all know that it's going to be someone who will be more dovish
and there will be some anticipation by the market on that.
So I think time is running out to really bearish, to really embarrassly react to having no right cuts.
So let me get this straight, because I'm not super sure, super familiar with how this works
in the States. So Trump gets to nominate someone. Is that, what does that mean? Is it a straight
up appointment or is it going to be voting or how does that work? Because as I understand it,
the president cannot fire a Fed chair, but the president does have some say in who's it going to
be when the term ends. So I'm actually going to pass this to Stephen because I think he'll know
the actual answer to this. Because to my knowledge, so to my knowledge, before I even like try looking
this up, to my knowledge, the president nominates one of these positions and then they have to go through the Senate, essentially.
They have to go through a hearing and be confirmed through the Senate, if you will, through a vote. Right, Stephen?
Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's a several step process. First, he makes the nomination.
First, he makes the nomination, and then the subcommittee, which I believe is the Senate Banking Committee, has to confirm it and push it forward for the rest of the Senate to vote.
And this is going to be a very long process, which is why he's putting forward his nomination soon, so that by the time that Powell's out, hopefully it will be done.
But if you look at the process from last year, just trying to get a lot of his appointments
through, the Senate overall held it up.
And think about it like this.
You know, the bank lobbyists want their person in.
And they, for the most part, control a lot of the Senate.
So unless it's a nominee that they agree with, you're going to see both sides attempt to hold this up as long as they can and possibly even push it beyond midterm elections.
That is a strong possibility to wait for the new Senate to vote on this.
So we may not get a confirmation for a year.
Now, I hope that it's sooner than that, because if you think about June,
let's talk about the crypto four-year cycle for a moment, which I'm still
a firm believer in. We had a peak in Bitcoin in October. And that
was the peak of the cycle. And typically, the four year cycle,
there's a year from the peak to the beginning of the next cycle. So it happens
to coincide with when a new Fed chair could possibly be confirmed, which is next October.
So I expect a moderate bear market for the next nine months. And then once a new Fed chair is confirmed, we probably can expect to see rape cuts coming.
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that.
But thank you for answering that question there, Stephen.
And I hope that answered your question.
I'm going to throw it to you.
Yeah, so just a few points, guys.
So Jerome Powell's term ends in May of twenty six, twenty twenty six.
However, he will still be on the board or can still be on the board of governors until January of twenty twenty eight.
So that's very interesting. That brings makes the lawsuit currently even more interesting.
Right. And then the other tidbit with regards to the Fed independent.
The other tidbit with regards to the Fed independence, one thing that Powell has mentioned,
granted, they're dependent on the banks.
But one thing that he has affirmed when it comes to his stance is he wants to be completely
independent of any political influence.
So I think last time he was on the press conference this is one thing
that he mentioned as well with regards to his own decision of whether or not we get a rate cut
because he wants it to be completely free of any political influence which is going to make the
other fed chair whoever gets voted in even more interesting i think that's kind of no pressure
right but i think he's going to be under the microscope with regards to decisions
that he makes. But this year, and I've mentioned it on other spaces before, right?
2026 is going to be a very interesting year based on everything that's going on on the macro level.
Well, yeah, you have like a lot of, you know, global geopolitical tension.
Like, you know, tensions are up right now. A lot of stuff happening.
It's only been, how long, guys?
It's only been like,
let me just look at the date here.
It's only been 12 days.
12 days, yep.
26, and I feel like we're already on fire.
So all's looking great.
All's looking great.
It's only up from here, hopefully.
Something else I think is interesting here
that I want to kind of shift the conversation to is I saw that the WEF, the World Economic Forum, their annual meeting is happening in Davos next week, I believe.
Right. I believe it's in Davos the week after.
But a number of crypto organizations are going, including the Hedera Council, it looks like.
of crypto organizations are going, including the Hedera Council, it looks like. So I'm curious,
is this kind of bringing things back to the Hedera scope, if you will, and amid all this global
geopolitical tension, is this the move? Is this going to the WEF annual meeting,
focusing on maybe talking
to a lot of these world leaders? One, is this what sets Hedera apart? But two, is this,
I don't want to say the correct move, because that kind of puts it in a weird light. But is
this like the right call, like by some of these blockchain orgs, including the Hedera Council,
going out and talking to these leaders, as opposed to just maybe some people might argue,
like, don't
don't interact with these guys they're all crooks yada yada like is this is this the move right i
would love the people slouch joe go for it i see you unmuted um they've uh kind of been not a
mainstay at devos but they've participated they They were big time there in 2023 and 2024.
So it doesn't surprise me that they're going back.
What will be interesting is that President Trump said he's going and we'll see if he tries to put some heavy influence there.
I guess that's the best place to meet billionaires and world leaders.
But Hedera has always kind of been there and a mainstay and heavily involved, which to me brought the question with Trump being in office in
Hedera, seemingly on the other side of a lot of issues, not openly, but just seemingly.
You can get a feel for how something you follow closely with your politics might be.
I wondered if this administration might have an effect on Hedera's ability to get into some agreements with governments or corporations. So that's still to be determined. But the leaders
from Hedera seem to be open and willing to work with most anyone that is willing to work with
Hedera. So that's a great sign. It appeased a lot of my concerns early, but it's still interesting to see because it's hard to stay.
It's hard to straddle the fence. Most entities end up on one side or the other. So that's still to be determined.
I know the WEF historically has been against crypto in Web3.
historically has been against crypto uh in like web 3 like they had strong dislikes about the
the industry or negative like kind of uh perspectives on the industry like is is something
like hedera is like is that the way we not persuade might be the right word there like
persuade them into understanding or maybe even co-opting this technology is like utilizing things
like hedera or i guess would they have the best shot
to to to kind of change the minds of these governments yeah i think that's um i don't
know if that's the reason they've been there but it sure has helped um where hedera's vision for
hedera hasn't always necessarily been for financial markets and systems.
It's been for other things like transparency and clarity and security.
So I think with that background, it's a lot easier to get people to sit at the table and have a discussion with you.
and have a discussion with you.
So I think it's been a perfect fit.
I can't remember if some of the other bigger L1s have been,
but I haven't paid enough attention.
I think maybe Chainlink was there, but I'm not sure.
I feel like that tracks.
I feel like Chainlink would be there.
I don't know.
When I think of professional chains,
I always think of, and I say professional funny enough, but I always think of things like Hedera, Chainlink, and then there's like, I hate saying Ripple because I just, I cannot stand, me personally, I can't stand Ripple, but obviously there's a reason they exist, of course.
But I just think of chains that are kind of like, quote, the suit and tie chains. I think of those, even AVAX to a degree. So it makes sense to me, I guess.
But Hashback, I saw you throwing up a lot of the emojis.
So I want to throw it to you.
Yeah, I think it goes twofold, man.
Because, you know, they're over the WEF.
It's just, it makes sense.
You know, it can raise like a lot of questions, of course,
for a couple of reasons we mentioned
and Joe highlighted like perfectly on there in my opinion.
But it goes twofold as to,
you need to go into the enterprise level,
but you also need to be going at the retail side of things.
I feel like retail is really strong also in that era right now,
even though we don't necessarily always feel it.
It's just like once you want that quote unquote almighty mass adoption,
you cannot go full on retail or full on enterprise, in my opinion.
It needs to go both ends.
So that's a clear showcase as to, hey, this is enterprise level.
But at the same time, I'll never stop to just saying it, like retail is going
really well over there, just a matter of cycles, just a matter of attention.
It's a matter, again, I'll throw in the word again, intersection.
Right now, we're just trying to figure out what's the next steps, what's going
to be the next six months for us, what's going to be the next two weeks for us.
And another clear showcase as to, again, intersection.
Of course, we could dabble into the state of X right now.
What's crypto Twitter like?
So it's all like divergence in terms of where is attention going to be residing
right now and how can we reach the maximum folks possible?
That's through use cases, that's through platforms, that's through great
entrepreneurs, but you need to tackle the entirety of the pie or at least a possible. That's through use cases, that's through platforms, that's through great entrepreneurs. You
need to tackle the entirety of the pie, or at least
a maximum of it, right?
And for sure, the WEF can
be a solution, I think.
I guess, before I throw it to Patricia, I see her
throwing a lot of hundreds up. I would love her take
on here. But a hashback, I guess my
response there would be that, or some
people might argue, saying
like, oh, if you just cater to enterprises, like eventually it'll get to retail because enterprises interact with retail for you.
But another argument against that would be like that might dilute, you know, the message that might dilute the product further down the road to make it like almost unrecognizable.
What are your thoughts on that?
I see it.
I see it.
But again, you know, a great example is I'm going to throw in a Solana on there.
I think they got a great balance in terms of what's retail and what's enterprise out there.
Out there, just doing great things, in my opinion, and it's never easy.
Because I think, in my opinion, in terms of perspective, again, this is personal.
I think they're slowly emerging out of the meme era where we're seeing Solana is like,
okay, this is memes.
This is 2024 memes era. And just like, you know, pop my bags, go ham and just have fun
with these memes.
But right now they're slowly having great integration with Cal-C, with prediction markets,
with privacy also that they posted last week.
And again, they got some great initiative even here in Canada, like through for retail,
like through Super Team Canada, they got those great initiatives and workshops all across the entire country, from
Montreal to Toronto to Vancouver, like just to gather what does retail look like and
how can we gather folks and just have fun and have a conversation?
So, yeah, I think it's twofold.
And yeah, we're over at Eurcon.
We do have, of course, Def Devner also next month. It's twofold, man. You cannot just have it one way of the year round and
it works. It's been working for them, like the enterprise level and they have great connections.
So it's twofold, man. You got to have more than one speed, man, on that gear, man, because
you got to keep up the pace. But yeah, who am I to know? But I think that's the best
key.
You got to attack both fronts, right? You got to attack both fronts.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, you mentioned ETH Denver.
I mean, before I said Patricia, I don't want to sidetrack too much,
but what kind of presence does Hedera have at ETH Denver? I'm curious.
Mostly around dev. Dev presence is bar not like one of the best out there
and what we call Web3 for sure.
Like the pool of talent is crazy.
You know, I can think of Hashgraph Online.
I can think of Ty over Hashgraph, of course.
I can think of Ken from Tashi, of course, he's a friend of yours.
Just straight up Slayers, just to showcase that,
yo, you can have amazing, amazing projects, collectibles.
You can have WCO in attendance right now,
just had a crazy good, great event over at LA
with World Calisthenics Organization.
You can have all those great entrepreneurs that are absolutely killing it,
but also on the dev side, I think that enables you to use the tech.
So, yeah, we're absolutely there.
I think it's going to be on February 17th, if my memory is not playing games.
So, yeah, just showcasing what we can do and how can we reach people out into
a verbiage that makes sense, like not by inventing something that doesn't exist yet,
but by reaching out to folks with tech that they can measure
and also that they connect to their lease.
Yeah, don't make solutions for problems that don't exist yet
or the problems aren't there.
Right there.
No, I'm happy that they're going to be there.
I'm very sad I will not be there, unfortunately.
I will be here at the house just in case the –
Yeah, for sure.
You know, just in case –
Yeah.
It's too close to the due date, unfortunately.
My wife looked at me.
I was like, hey, can I go to Eat Denver?
And she's like, you're going to ask?
No, don't even ask me that silly question.
She's like, are you dumb?
Like, just because it says March 2nd doesn't mean she's going to come March 2nd, bro. And I was like, okay,
I get it.
In all transparency, I have a daughter
also. Dev number is going to be
absolutely awesome. It's always fun
to meet folks face-to-face.
But brother, that's going to
nerve the event by a thousand
compajillion folds, man. So proper decision.
Heck yeah, dude.
Thank you so much
hashback patricia i want to throw it to you uh i know you've been a little quiet the whole space
i would love your thoughts on the conversation i saw joe's hand go up briefly so i want to throw
it to him as well hello hello i'm sorry i joined a bit later because um x decided uh not to to give
me the warning that the space was starting so i I was a bit more relaxed because I knew,
okay, I have the warning.
I will be there when I see it.
And I thought maybe the space is starting a bit later
because the guys cannot start it.
And no, it was X ragging me personally.
Thank you, X.
You guys know my side on this whole thing.
I think that in terms of crypto adoption,
crypto is going to be heavily adopted
at one point. And eventually, when that does, banks will not allow others to take their share
of the pie. So I don't think that we will have that massive adoption until banks are ready to
be able to integrate crypto, hold it in behalf of their clients,
and then charge an enormous fee for doing so because it's how they work.
So I don't see any bank in the world being happy about losing fees
or revenue towards an exchange, towards a wallet.
So they are going to do everything they can to prevent this from happening.
And we are not going to see that mass adoption until they are ready for this.
And since they are slow, this mass adoption is slower on the RNs, sadly for us.
But I don't think that the ones that are here at this point are going to give up in the meantime.
So they are going to be up in the meantime so they are going
to be plenty happy when that happens and uh like phil was um saying we need the retail we need
enterprise everything um intertwines and people are giving visibility on x for the projects that
they support because the algo is just um i right, I think of the ex-algo as a bipolar one.
And I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone that is dealing with this disease,
because it's not my intention.
But the algo is completely bipolar.
You don't know what you should do or not do,
so that your posts have a tiny amount of reach.
You do something and it works against you.
You do another thing and it works against you too.
So you're completely without options.
So the best way for us to support the ones that are here building for our communities,
and I say this for any crypto network,
is to give visibility to the projects
and the people that are doing things that you like
by giving a like on a post, by dropping a reply,
a bookmark, something like that, so that they all go things.
Oh, okay, some people are interested in the content
that this project or that person is posting.
I'm going to show it to some others
and let's see if they are interested too.
Because otherwise, it's going to be really hard for us
because our reach is in platforms like X
and especially here.
Because if we think about amounts of users
between Meta, Instagram, X, about amounts of users between um meta um um instagram uh x x is probably the platform with
the biggest amount of users for now so we sadly have to to cater to to their algo and
do what the algo wants to to make it happy and show our content to more people
so are we cooked patricia as the x algo cooked is that what you're saying that that's sure okay so i think it won't be cooked for a lot longer because i don't know if you guys saw this
but yesterday um i think it was yesterday uh alan said that um the code for the algo is going to be
um publicly shared in the next seven days it could be seven days or it could be a couple of months
we never know right but he said in the next seven days and that could be seven days or it could be a couple of months. We never know, right?
But he said in the next seven days and that every four weeks
they are going to release
the new version of the code.
So this means that
the code that we are going to see
in seven days,
it's going to be the old version,
most likely.
So we will be four weeks ahead
in terms of the code
that we can see for ourselves.
But having the Algo code available at least helps us understand.
And it's really easy to feed the Algo, for example, to Claude and ask Claude to ask,
OK, this is the code that I want you to analyze.
Tell me what I should do or I shouldn't be doing according to this code to avoid hurting my reach on X.
And it will be pretty easy for Claude or any other coding tool
to be able to extract the information for the code
even if you don't have the ability to do so yourself.
I know I'm going to be doing this for sure because I'm super curious.
Even if I'm not a dev, I'm going to use an AI tool to check this.
But the problem is we are still going to be working with the algo from a month ago.
And I'm pretty sure they are not going to release the latest version of the algo now.
They are going to release it in seven days when they already have a new version in place.
And then from weeks from now, they are going to have a new version that is already out
and are going to release the old one.
But at least we can try to do some things
that cater to the version
that we have available to consult.
And it's not going to be the guessing game
that we have right now
because it's just so bad.
People cannot have their posts seen by anyone. It's just so bad. People cannot have their posts seen by anyone.
It's crazy.
Like the things that are being broadcasted now by the algo is,
Grok put my image in the beginning.
Like this is insane, right?
And those posts have millions of views.
But the rest of us that are out there posting really good content
cannot have our things seen by Onyx.
So yeah, at least I hope that having the algo out helps we need to start posting more dog videos not crypto content guys um does crypto
contents over let's just talk about how we're going to change ct into like an animal like you
know funny video section of the internet again and not you know memes maybe memes might work still memes might yes we need to use source uh code for now like crypto is not crypto anymore it's a rabbit
something like that we need codes moving forward until we can get our hands on that uh algo code
i love that now now i saw you on mute go for it i want to hear from joe here too
yeah i think x bases are also cooked because I just got rubbed heavily.
We're just overall cooked.
So basically X decided to rug us all over the weekend,
over the week, I should say,
seeing Nikita's tweets.
But I also saw that they're adding the cash tag system,
which is pretty cool.
So basically you can actually put a ticker symbol now
in your tweets.
I'm not sure if it's released yet.
I think it's out now or it's coming out soon uh anyways uh you can put a cash tag out so you put
a ticker symbol of like a stock or a token and it'll give you like all the information on it and
like you know post the chart of it automatically and i think it's really cool um but then william
no one sees your posts so there's that no one sees my posts. So there's that. No one sees my posts regardless.
Even with the algo on my side, no one sees my posts.
Honestly, replies have been cooking.
I've been replying on my personal account on like major happenings.
And I've been just getting crazy impressions on those.
But like, yeah, my posts, nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
Zero.
Like nothing at all.
Like, you know, maybe less than 100 views.
But then I'll post like a really low effort reply somewhere.
It'll be like a GIF or something.
And it gets like 50,000 views.
And I'm just like, wait a minute, what's going on here?
I'm going to give you an example of that.
I once posted an emoji on one of those high demanded posts.
And one emoji, I swear it was nothing else was seen by one million people plus wow yeah wow that's that's hilarious let's see like i'm just gonna start
people think they put so much effort into their x posts but i honestly think at this point you
put less effort into them um joe I would love your thoughts, and Nat,
I want to throw it to you after.
Should we just start saying, like, GM?
No, you don't want to use up all of your daily allowable reach.
So, yeah, I'm not even getting information
from brands I have notifications on for. So I'll give you an
example of how bad Spaces is. I put Earthlings into this space on my computer. So I'm staring
at my computer now. Can't see Earthlings in this space on my phone. Don't get notifications from my own brands.
So it's ridiculous.
But I originally put my hand up to go back to what came from Hashback. And Charles Atkins said it right when he took over as president of the foundation
that one of the major issues that they've run into with Hedera not focusing on retail
is a lot of these enterprise representatives are like, yeah, you've got great technology,
but who uses it?
So where's your retail consumption?
And they're like, well, we're focused on enterprise.
Well, you don't have retail consumption.
We're going to go build somewhere else, even if we like your tech more.
So I think it forced the people in charge to kind of wake up and realize that, hey, it might be a struggle,
but you are going to have to put a little bit of effort into the retail side and support some retail, which they've started doing.
Because think of Solanogil.
Yeah, people want built-in users.
My buddy is the head of licensing for a university in the Southeastern Conference,
and they've discussed crypto on multiple occasions.
And he said they've discussed Hedera,
and there are not enough users for them to
want to do anything with this right now.
So he's named some of the other brands who might cost more for transactions, might not
be the best tech, but that's what it is.
They want built-in consumers.
They want people that know the brand when they do a launch.
So when the largest athletic conference on a college level in the world launches something, they want the technology that they're using to have a retail brand recognition.
And that's the issue that Hedera's run into a lot.
So the retail focus does have to be there
as well as the enterprise.
Yeah, I mean, that's the main, I would say,
that's been one of the main successes of like Solana,
like Patricia said.
I mean, they've walked that line very well.
They've catered to a wide audience.
And the UI on it has just been incredible
as well, especially with like Phantom Wallet, for instance, how easy it is to use and how kind of
simple it is to operate on there while also, you know, giving that speed that the enterprise,
I mean, security is kind of questionable, obviously, but like, you know, that you can
look at security from multiple angles, but like speed is kind of undeniably there.
And a lot of enterprise users or enterprises really enjoy that as well about it.
So it's hitting both those legs, which I think Hedera is doing a really good job of, too.
I mean, look at the Hedera partners that there are, that Hedera Council's had on board.
It's been quite astounding to see.
I see Kabila's raised their hand. So I'm going to throw it to them and hashback we have you back up here great
the rugging continues everyone uh but kabila go for it yeah so i don't see earthlings in this
space either by the way joe so um i don't know if the account is actually in here or not but um no it's um charles we had charles atkins in a in a dj in our space i think well a
couple months ago by by now and he mentioned the same thing that joe um just mentioned that uh they
learned that um well if they learned it or that he was saying that the old foundation didn't
understand it and they do i don't know but anyway the foundation learned that companies and enterprises are indeed looking for users on on the
chains that they are looking out but on the other hand not all enterprises or companies care about
that um i mean look at equity labs what they are doing with the verifiable compute with Intel and NVIDIA.
Those are use cases that I don't think they care at all about the user base on the chain.
They just want the best DLT out there to use.
And I think that's stuff that there are likes a lot because they don't have to deal with the retail side of things.
And they can just
discuss business on an enterprise level and on a technology level. But yeah, I mean,
some companies care about that, some don't. So it's definitely important to expand that reach and in order to grow. And also,
some companies that do care about
the actual user base
of a DLT
that mostly choose for Solana
right now
and maybe change like base.
They also
make your reach
the other companies
that maybe think about the tech less
or the ecosystem less.
They make you reach them more as well.
One of my uncles is actually,
has been doing some research about DLT
for Major Dutch Bank.
And so I've been,
I don't speak with him a lot,
but usually with christmas and
maybe your birthday a year so i mentioned hedera to him like three years ago um but he mainly stuck
at ethereum and then started to explore solana etc and last christmas so a couple weeks ago we
actually mentioned a um so you might have been right about hedera by the way so um actually some
other banks that um he was working with the pivoted to hedera and actually set up this uh this early
adopters group and bank he works for just didn't decide to join back then was two years ago
um and they actually asked if they could still join the alliance,
but they're too late now.
So it was pretty fun to hear that, yeah,
they actually think that there might be the right choice.
But, yeah, just because the user base and all the publicity,
the other chains get, even, yeah, people at the banks,
the major banks, they decide to look into those first as well.
So it's definitely worth it to put emphasis on that ecosystem, on the retail side and expand on that front as well.
Patricia, go for it. I see your hand up.
See how slow banks are.
Two years, you could have saved so much time by checking Adaira directly and thinking,
oh, yes, this is the best tag for our use case,
instead of going after the other ones.
And then after two years, by consulting probably his boss,
and then the boss's boss, and the boss's boss's boss.
And then, oh, yes, Adaira is a great one.
It only took us three years to understand that.
It's so crazy.
Well, there's also a sense of security in there.
Not security, but a kind of testing in there, right?
Where this information as well as the technology
had to go through some sort of proving ground
through multiple different levels of acceptance,
if you will, into that company
or maybe into that whatever know whatever whatever we're talking
whatever you can like put it put an example there of course but i feel like it's good in essence in
the sense that it has time to evolve and grow and mature and kind of go through those those standards
if you will but yeah it is slow like it is very very slow you can kind of make an argument for a
lot of things though right right patricia oh yeah absolutely and uh what we are
seeing this example the um the example that you gave is the perfect one because what we saw uh for
this bank it's the same thing that happens for other uh enterprises as well um banks are are
slow but other enterprises in the web3 web2 side are slow too. And this for us is crazy because we are so used to the rhythm of Web3
that it would be unthinkable for us to take two years to do something
that seems so simple as a base, you know, like decide what detail to use.
And I don't know, it's weird. When we start knowing Web3, we see how flawed
the institutions out there in Web2 are. Yeah, I mean, they could certainly be better. I think
there's a lot of ideas as well as, obviously, the technology aside, kind of operations from Web3
that can bleed over and kind of help Web2 evolve, if you
will, and kind of make like a Web 4.0, maybe.
Because obviously with Web3, it's very different in the sense that you don't have those same
standards, like security standards and practices where everything is kind of just like build
shit really fast here and see if it works, you know?
Whereas like, and see if you can get like an audience for it.
Yeah, there's security.
Yeah, there's, you know, built in, of course uh you know you have like obviously decentralized wallets and
non-custodial wallets of course but there's a lot of scams that get perpetrated and uh not
perpetrated but a lot of scams that get like pushed through in the space unfortunately and
i think it's because you don't you don't have that slowness of like the this the this kind of
steadiness of web 2 where it's a lot harder. It still happens, of course, but it's a lot more difficult to get the velocity,
the same kind of velocity from a scam in web two as web three, at least in my personal opinion,
because certainly you have, you know, ghost companies and zombie companies on the stock
market, but there's like a way more intense vetting process there, as opposed to just me
being some, you know, fat dude in a basement,ting process there as opposed to just me being some,
you know, fat dude in a basement launching a meme coin, you know, that like I say, like it
promises you all your hopes and dreams that, you know, you then buy into and then are then
subsequently scammed by me. But then again, you know, there are SPACs in the stock market,
of course, and I can go on and on and ramble on about like all the scams that happen on
web too, of course, but Patricia, I see see your hand up so save me from my rambling
i was going to tell you william uh the the guy in the um in the garage or the basement launching
the the meme coin um is our uh web2 um pyramid scam guy so it's basically the same thing if we don't think on a company level um but
a person and let's call it retail it's it's the same thing the person that starts a pyramid scheme
in real life is the one that is most likely to to start a meme coin that they know exactly they
are going to run it and um we even have uh farms to start all of those and rug and then the next one and the next one.
Because now it has become a business, quote unquote, for the ones that create those.
And there's organized farms to do that.
So it's sad for the users, of course.
But it's the same thing that happens out there
in the real world. And they need to be careful here the same way that they are out there. If a
guy comes to you and say, hey, give me 20 bucks because I'm going to give you 2000 bucks tomorrow,
you are going to tell the guy no. So it's the same thing you need to be doing when you see meme coins exploding here and there
and think, should I do this or not?
I'm telling that guy, by the way, yes, not no, Patricia.
I'm saying yes every time.
Not being sarcastic, of course, here.
But no, really good points there.
Joe, I saw you throwing up the reactions.
I saw Kabila throwing up the reactions there as well.
Would love to get your thoughts.
I know we're getting the top of the hour as well.
So listeners, if you enjoyed this space,
be sure to follow all the speakers up here on stage
to give their precious time to be here,
share their thoughts and perspectives
on some of the news happening in this space,
as well as some alpha maybe
that you might catch in these spaces.
So please, please, please give them a follow.
Check out what they're building.
Check out what they're posting.
I don't doubt you will not be disappointed for sure.
But also following them will help with
the ex-algo shenanigans happening right now. You might not see their posts otherwise, so definitely
do so. And also hit that retweet button. It helps the space grow and also is recorded. And so people
will be able to see later on, listen later on, similar to a podcast, if you will. I do that all
the time. I'll listen to recorded spaces when I'm at the gym or something. Not to listen to my own voice, of course, because my own voice is just god-awful.
But everyone else here, I listen to their voices. But Joe, I'm going to throw it to you.
We'll start wrapping things up here. I would love your thoughts. And then if we can get
Kabila and Nat in as well, it'd be great. So Joe, go for it.
No, it was a great talk today. I think we've got a lot of things to sort out. In the U.S., I think there's a lot of hesitation right now in all the markets with the uncertainty. I don't want to see them go away. I think
the sentiment will change
and once we get some
clarity and movement
one way or the other, I think
people will start working their way back in.
I like how you used that pun, clarity
from Clarity Act. I can't wait for that
as well. Kabila, I'm going to go
to you.
Yeah, nothing more on my side.
Thanks for hosting.
Thanks for the conversation.
And, yep, hope you guys have a great week.
Of course, man.
Of course.
Thank you for being here.
Nat, my third team, my wonderful co-host.
We'll love your thoughts on everything here on this conversation.
We'll give you some closing thoughts, and we'll wrap things up.
Yeah, this has been another amazing space.
I love that we touched on the
macro front and then we touched on everything that Hedera has been doing. And I think over time,
I think people are going to realize the importance of spaces like these when we can get together
and really talk about everything that's happening. Because at the end of the day,
they are important to everything that we've been seeing lately. But overall, man, great space.
I love in these Hedera space.
All roads lead to Hedera.
Let's get it.
All right, guys.
She said Hedera like five or six times right there.
So we are pumping, again, I guarantee it,
more volume coming in for sure.
No, but always love having your takes here.
Nat, always love having everyone's take up here on stage.
But listeners, thank you so much.
Speakers, thank you so much.
It has been another amazing Monday.
Catch us again next week, Monday, 12 PM Eastern here on X.
Let's hope the algo doesn't cook us entirely, but until then,
enjoy the rest of your week, enjoy your weekend. We'll see you then.
Thank you so much, everyone. Peace out.
Insights
P
