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Fireside chat with Anatoly Yakovenko and @MadSkullsNFT
Recorded: Dec. 5, 2023 Duration: 0:53:19Space Recording
Full Transcription
So, you know,
You, thank you.
traditional finance rails but in defy i think much much faster once they are real world assets
are there so that i think is like real opportunity for defy to break out into the real world um
for digital collectibles there's still like
like stuff that's promising vibo i can see him in the channel listening i think like showing a model
that is like instagram subscriber model that is built on top of the idea of the abundance of art
i think is really really cool and i see the klanos guys yeah and like building like i think especially
with like building new lore and ip like the idea that like the next marvel or the next akira right
is being built by my friends and they give me those first sketches and i get to be a collector in that
early part of ip creation is really really kind of like beautiful and cool it's like what i remember
like the best of comic book collection uh like being a kid and like getting those like first edition
thing of like with the first time the heroes revealed or something um like right now i think
is a really cool time because of all the ai's tools coming online that make it much much cheaper to build
high-end like high looking high quality looking animation and stuff like that on content so
like it's kind of feels like things are like the the possibilities are kind of exploding in that space
but uh i haven't seen anything like yet like really show uh that kind of traction with like revenues like
both traction and revenues at the same time that's like a runaway success that everyone can point to
and it's usually like content is like a really really tough space like everywhere like there is no
like easy um easy like content creation or social media business out there um and it's kind of like
struggle luck that facebook got as big as the as they did and was able to to get to those economies
of scale that are so large that it's now a massive company absolutely and honestly i remember little
like ebbs and flows and idiosyncrasies within facebook's life cycle as well right things like
farmville and the gaming era was so important for onboarding and just for like retention and engagement
i think similarly solana faces its little ebbs and flows and really like what you described around
like the next ip launching here and it's incredibly exciting i mean the next marvel or maybe the
next hellboy but my kind of next question is around kind of what you mentioned on ai you know there's
now this explosion of tools people um you know no longer have to look look up how to do things they
just asked you know deliver some multimodal inputs and then things get done um so you know how are you
thinking about ai and blockchain we're already in a world where a lot of communication and a lot of
activities are just machine to machine already but you know how do how do autonomous agents reading and
writing to blockchains play into this um i think that's still like way no i think nobody knows basically
i would say is the honest answer um stuff that's interesting is like building like oracles out of
these things that are verifiable so you can like um so instead of dealing with like oracle committees
for prediction markets i think it'd be cool for people to like hey i'm trusting these four models they
they all submit like signed at a stations and then we can like post prediction markets to them and have
like you know five out of ten models vote stuff like this not like i think remove some of the
politics out of dealing with um with prediction markets but it's kind of a a cheat code right like
i don't i don't know right like it's you're like basically if these models are standard and published
and you can kind of trust how they're built that that works because you're trusting that like the people
at facebook that trained this model um did the right thing like or have no incentive to
to try to like break the application that you're building um there's no like i think
these use cases are still like very very much experimental things that we internally thought
could be cool is like if you ran a model in a deterministic way then you can replicate it the
inference running in a you know and different machines and then you can have something where
you can write smart contracts in the in the in like the model itself right so you just post
a prompt like hey you're an implementation of uniswap this is the receiver address this is the
sender address go right like something like that um i don't know how like that stuff it seems like a
cool experiment just to prove that the entire loop can work you can run it deterministically and then you
can like catch catch errors and stuff like that i don't know if anything there is actually buildable
into a product that people will use so i think it's still very much unproven but it seems exciting
um i would say like probably the best usage for these systems right now is to help you write unit tests
if you're writing smart contracts write the smart contract yourself and then tell like gpt copilot like
hey this is my implementation can you unit test it
makes sense no i mean i i think it's it's kind of interesting everyone is
going to be using uh this stuff to at least like help them out as a sidekick but
i i wanted to switch gears slightly um going back to kind of we've touched on defy which is obviously
like a very interesting breeding ground right now for ideas i mean we just saw bundles
cheeto bundles being used um for all kinds of things that people hadn't imagined for the other day
but i wanted to quickly um talk about kind of the one of the main bottlenecks or i would say limiting
factors for crypto today which is some of the exchanges um you know as it relates to backpack i think
one of the most painful things about the ftx implosion was that it was uh one of the
you know i guess entities or exchanges that was at least you know supportive to an extent of solana
at one point in time um and kind of went with ftx going away i think some of the other incumbents um
were maybe not not as you know friendly towards solana or you know maybe just didn't spend as much time or
attention on it kind of how do you think uh backpack plays into this next wave of solana in the next chapter
um well like i think if the ecosystem like shows the same kind of growth on product development and
like user acquisition like i think we're going to be the this ecosystem is going to be the market leader
by next year if you see the same kind of growth and then like the industry is going to shift towards
what is solana doing like as like the solana watchers instead of i would say they're still kind
of ethereum watchers um but you got to launch products that are like users like and do acquisition
and that whole thing um so like um i don't know that that's short answer is like
like don't don't worry about it just like build really good products and get users and uh that
that's really the what folks should be really thinking about as their number one priority
makes sense and kind of relating to what you mentioned around some of some of these design
choices or i guess like some of the intentionality around solana being regarded as best practices
moving forward i saw a funny tweet that said that solana is kind of unabashedly long hardware
whereas other blockchains historically at least have been maybe not short hardware but definitely
not as long kind of what's your what's your take on that and kind of leaning into hardware um
and bandwidth as kind of two the two main inputs for a blockchain
like we already have more capacity than we need like there's there's enough compute that no that
blocks are only saturated by mev spam which means that they're not like financially saturated because
the floor price for fees is not going up like when what you saw on ethereum when it started getting
saturated was that the cheapest transaction to get into the block was expensive we don't see that
we see like spamming that fills up blocks but it's just opportunistic map um so solana is right now
like has way has a ton of slack for capacity um and that means that we don't need to update the hardware
and we could actually the hardware is going to get cheaper right and like i would say probably by next year
like the cost of servers and latitude might be sub 200 bucks by by this breakpoint um depending on
like you know their upgrade cycles but i think the core part that's important is that like we're all
futurists we think that like in 10 20 years sometime in our lifetime all of the world's finance is not
going to be run by like you know people it's going to be running more and more machines automated
you know transparent smart contracts and hopefully all that stuff is running in solana and what we're
doing right now is really making sure that that capacity is there and the network can easily scale
and if we get to a point where the only thing that we need to do to scale is that validators need to like
pay latitude twice as much it's an easy problem like if we have so much demand that like financially the
network is saturated then i need to like double the hardware the hardware is the cheapest part
even today you look at like solana fees um
like average fee what is it per transaction is 00042 soul which is like 0.2 cents
uh through that pays i think for all the hardware in the network like four times over or something like that
uh so we can like the the hardware is the cheapest part if if that's what's saturated and that's what's
like actually keeping us from adding more users it's the easiest thing to fix that's kind of basically
the place where we want to be makes total sense i think uh a lot of people think about this in terms of
like you know hardware costs getting more expensive but really for as core counts double and everything
like for a given level of performance the cost is actually falling dramatically and that's another way
to look at it so i think really solana in that sense is on the right side of what they're optimizing for
and in some sense the industry hasn't realized it yet um that's at least the sense i get in talking to
a few other people but it's it's very cool honestly to hear um here uh sorry my dog's a while now uh
to hear what you're saying and i and i think as community members a lot a lot of people in the
audience you know in kind of like when i was asking for questions earlier they they wanted to
hear your perspective on how can um you know a new community member who is new to solana what what's
the best way for them to contribute you even mentioned it totally for the first time in history
um you know you you're even you are having a hard time like dealing with everything that's
going on in the ecosystem and we're not even in the bull market yet so you know as as things begin
to get crazier and crazier how can like the marginal or incremental user on solana get involved what's the
best way um i mean if you're an engineer and you can code or do product development like start working
on your thing for the next hackathon there's always one around the corner and that's the easiest way
to like meet other co-founders that you can work with and like and actually build a startup
and a ton of startups in solana did like one hackathon and they just like met their co-founders
launched tried to launch something it was terrible and then in the next hackathon they continued working
and actually built something because the co-founders just gelled and like actually like got it
um so like start now it's super easy you know just your time right that's the commitment um and
that's the easiest way to get involved as an engineer if you're non-engineer um there's like
a bajillion projects that need like docs and comms and all this other stuff so like go find one that
you like try to become an expert at it and help people out
no i i think that's awesome i think in general in my some of my conversations with friends on
ethereum some of them are you know asking for like asking around docs and and how solana ones can be
made better and i think that's honestly a massive niche like for anyone listening in the crowd if you
are talented or have a keen interest in like getting good at that i think it's something that's in like
very high demand and it's something where you can really make a name for yourself
but i think more generally at this point uh we're getting close to time wanted to just field a few
questions from dms from the community and uh then we'll close this one out but uh first one is around
fire dancer and the solana 2.0 narrative a lot of people are very excited by kind of some of the
updates that they heard at breakpoint and you know just wanted to hear from you totally you know
kind of what what can um you know really what what does fire dancer unlock for for people that are
a little bit less informed in the audience or you know kind of what are some of the things that
you know going into next year that we can be excited for um yeah fire dancer folks are like
making awesome progress there's uh the fire dancer client is already in tusna which is the franken
dancer it's running part solana code part um labs code and that's a really big milestone because
that code is being run through the whole thing um like that's like basically in my mind that you kind
of downhill from there they can start ripping out more of the labs code and actually franken
dancer will eventually become fire dancer you know all engineering timelines are terrible like my my
bet like is 50 50 odds it'll be they'll have a full client on may not uh by breakpoint um mostly because
they're they're smart engineers they like deadlines and they they will like push to make it work
make sense um and then last question i had was around i guess you know every every cycle there's
a few products and applications that really are like the main conduits or lightning rods for user
activity and liquidity um a lot of people right now are kind of recognized we're in kind of a
transitionary phase some of the narratives and themes of the next cycle are not like super clearly defined
kind of do you have any perspective on uh you know when you look at the salon ecosystem
you know there's a few i guess salient examples around like maybe jupiter and a few other projects
but uh what's something that would be unexpected you know you know a lot of good things in life are
unexpected but from your perspective what's something that maybe you're not expecting but you see as
something that could pop off in the next year um that like i would like i would love to see like rwa is
like you know maybe these are forex currencies that are issued on chain that are tied to a real business
case um you know like my ideal thing would be like i don't know airbnb would start using forex
on chain to like trade you know to like manage all their international exchanges stuff like that
like if we saw like a real business doing stuff in d5 because it's more transparent getting some
settlement and all of that and they trust it more than the traditional finance system for like
complex cross-border stuff that would be a huge huge one for d5 so like real real value creation is
what i'd love to see completely agree i think just moving real assets on chain unlocks and makes them
productive in a way that i think few people are expecting and and and just like unlocking the
potential of like you know asset x on solana is like unbounded and and it's it's a higher velocity
asset and it's you're able to do all these different things that simply were not possible
previously so very very cool um we're pretty much at time totally thanks thanks for coming through to
the spaces it was a great chat and uh people are really excited for this one so we we really appreciate
it for sure thanks for having me all right guys thanks for listening in um this has been a really good
chat with anatoly we're going to be holding these i would say semi infrequently but really excited
to be able to put on these high quality chats uh with some of the top builders and minds in the space
and um yeah what can i say guys it's been crazy last few weeks for lads and uh it's all gas no breaks
on solana all right thanks guys take care thanks everyone
