Right there jcNikers just wanted to take over welcome to Medea. Oh another
Great show today blocks media with a glad
GM GM. Yes, it is. It's clan man
How are things looking on your side cuz uh the economic forecast says we're
Out of the recession, you know, everybody should buy everything spend all your money keep it all in banks
You know, that's that's what it's saying. I don't know how things over there in UK, bro
Yeah, yeah, okay, you know pop World War three and stuff like that we're holding on
Man if we if we if we just completely
Get themified and pay attention to what they're telling us then. Yeah, we're pretty much screwed. So thank God
we're all here smart folks, right bunch of smart peeps we have a
Pretty stacked panel today. We have I see him down below
Wolf account there. That's fantastic. What's up, buddy? Let me let me get you up here too as well
so I definitely appreciate you coming
this is something that is
On pretty much a lot of us
This mind is is this you know, this are they gonna pivot now? They're not gonna pivot we're talking about specifically
Federal Reserve right FOMC. This is a pretty impactful week since this is a first meeting of the year and
Pretty much set the trend for the rest of the year. I believe well, I mean believe what you want to believe but
What do I know again? I'm just a guy in the internet. So
Man set this is uh, this is something that you know, it's it's do you think it's gonna affect crypto?
It's not gonna affect pretty though. Do we really care about this crap?
Why pay attention to the US economy? What are they? I mean, it's only the you know, 60% of the world's
You know crypto liquidity, but it's okay. You know, why should we even care? Yeah
Yeah, well 60% of the world's crypto liquidity jam 60% of the world's crypto liquidity
However, when it comes to fiat currencies being used for settlement of large international purchases that number is going down
So FOMC meeting the first one of 2024
I think we'll have much more far-reaching implications than most people realize and
Even though they've got this one slated to they claim this is not a meeting where they're going to do financial projections
You know, they're just they're swearing up or down no financial projections
I think there it will set a tone like you're saying because it's the first one of the year and
Because it's just been so choppy the last couple of years and again with the the broader international
News like you were mentioning before it's pretty obvious that there are
their needs to have access to liquid capital in the United States and
On behalf of our of our partner, you know our friends in the in the five eyes partnership partner nations
If we do start to see things go a little more sideways the likelihood of increased money printing
Obviously goes up the likelihood of a change to interest rates. Obviously that likelihood goes up as well
Depending on what is it? They they need to do to accommodate an international effort that that might look like
You know war as we know it and it might look very different this time around
But no, I think this is gonna be pretty high impact. It'll be kind of subtle
But I think there'll be more more ripple effects from tit from this meeting than most people realize personally
That's my take. Yeah, you know I hang around a lot on
Generalized market spaces and and listen to some pretty notable experts on
Pretty much what I've been kind of echo-chambering the entire time
So I'm so happy that these guys kind of feel not really feel but at least for the stats
Or look the same way that something is being heavily moved
At least a generalized markets, right? What I mean my generalized market is non crypto
Of course that that could be any more from equities commodities and so forth all the above so
Looking at all those especially to us that trade for you know
does pretty much a big part of the portfolio you kind of have to
Pay attention to these things because there could be some that you know, if some say that the correlations, of course
Just another indicator some say there's not you know, it's it's it's all on it gets your trading style, but you cannot deny
These things do affect us right? I mean if we look at from
You know beginning of last year all the way through till today
It's it's a much different market right now specifically, you know
When you know the S&P is all-time high all this other stuff kind of following us and trend
So yeah, I don't know and and wolf congratulate welcome, sir
And just congratulations again on on on your deal too, by the way, okay. I can't get enough telling you that
Appreciate you boys, man. Thank you so much for the invite for having me Jake crypto moving media set mind Joe Biz
I'm excited to be here boys. Like I'm up bright-eyed bushy tails 7 a.m. On the west coast. Let's go
Let's get it man. You must have woke up to some games this morning or something, buddy
You're you're you're happy. What's going on, bro? What you got to talk to us, man?
This is this is me this is me all the time
I mean, I think if this way if these web three streets have taught me anything
It's like if you can't keep a positive attitude like and you start your day off like grumpy cat
Get out of here, man. You guys you're dead in the water already, you know what I mean?
So well, I mean considering that grumpy cat did die. So if you don't waking up by him, you're not waking up at all my guy
It's all right, we got nine lives we'll figure it out
Yeah, man, I appreciate the invite boys, I know you guys sitting here talking about the the F1C meeting I think
One of the things when it comes to like, you know people like what are people actually like paying attention to?
Whether they're expecting like, you know a bump or a nothing burger or you know a cut
I think what what people always look for I remember like when I was on Wall Street like a lot of the traders
They'd be looking for the the attendees right like the central tendencies and like these like the dot plots
I don't know if people actually know what that shit is
But like just to geek out for a second
But they like the the plot essentially shows you were like each member of like the Federal Reserve
Or rather the Federal Market Committee
Actually stands like do we want to raise do we want to like do we want to keep it the same or do we want to lower?
So it's all about like alright if they do nothing
What's the next thing right? Like it's always kind of like a what have you done for me lately kind of deal
But um people are gonna be closely watching this and this is one of the biggest things that you can watch
Like if you manage any sort of portfolio, so
Yeah, but look at look at the sentiment right no matter what they decide which we kind of already know, right?
I mean if he there's you know that um, if you go to the to the CME tool, right? It has you know the pulled
The pulled view from you know banking executives on what their consensus is on
You know what the interest rate is gonna be right?
If it's gonna say it's a if it's gonna go back and it's been you know, 100% right at least through this, you know
through this rate hike right all the way back, you know late 2022 when whenever we started but
so, you know, it's staying the same but is that the right decision right because look at
Again and and going back to stats not not none of this absolutely doesn't make sense, right? It didn't make sense to 2007
It's not making sense now in
2001 it was a little bit different right? But if you look at those specific dates and those specific time frames
You know, there is something that is very heavily correlated to
Epic destruction, especially in economy and that's at least for in the American side
That's the credit card default rate, right? What is the credit card default rate right now? Holy hell. It's approaching
If 60 50 percent, you know somewhere around there. I think it did almost hit 50 percent. So I mean the highest it's ever been was
2008 and that was just under like 39. It was 38 and change
Somewhere around there, right? But quite mind you if I call my numbers wrong. My range is about right
So if you if you look at those correlations on what is happening to Americans at least Americans, you know
I understand we have Europeans here
we have folks from from Southeast Asia from pretty much all over the world, but
It's pretty much undeniable that you know
The the US is the majority of liquidity for a lot of sectors, right?
So if you're if you're looking at at least for an American standpoint
We we are the highest we have ever been in
Defaults on credit cards. It's it's pretty it's pretty embarrassing actually
I don't know what is in other countries, but at least for here, it's pretty embarrassing
Especially when the credit card that has passed one trillion dollars that everybody is late on or at least half the population is late on
How does that even oh, but how does that make sense dude, I mean what's what's going on
Yeah, and Jay that's that's not all they're late on either
I mean you're talking about the credit cards being late and having that percentage grow to 2008 levels
We saw after 2008 with subprime lending where that's just completely it's put on a mask, right?
The subprime lending crisis literally never stopped with all the only thing that changed was a ticket side
Where you had subprime loans going out to going out to homeowners, right or or the fictitious homeowners, right?
Apparently you could whatever have a contract drafted up and and assign a new
Sign a new door to your dog or to your cat or something and approvals were basically like a joke
But what shifted was yeah that ticket size now you got people who are rolling around in SUVs that are way more car than they
Should be driving way more car than they could afford and they really should have had the common sense to know that
But the number of automobile loans that are over 60 is delinquent is also is also pretty staggering, right?
It was um, it was also I think the last time we checked it was in the high 50% high 50s in
We're just we're seeing it everywhere
But the credit card on that credit card figure is a little bit
Alarming because the likelihood of some of those delinquent auto loans being paid off on credit cards is pretty high, right?
When them when people are that desperate when they're when they're that illiquid in their own finances
Then yeah, they do desperate things like put a car payment on a credit card or like buy friggin groceries on a credit card
So yeah, that's that's particularly disturbing
But but I mean that snowball has been rolling for a while and we already we kind of saw which direction it was headed
That's crazy that we did like we literally just said
You like you're astounded that people are putting groceries on a credit card, right? Like that's probably like the
Americans that actually put groceries on a credit card and that live paycheck to paycheck is like I mean it's crazy and
Jay, I want to go back to the one thing that you said where you're like, I don't know
Like none of this makes sense
The one thing that came to my mind is this saying if you guys remember where it was the markets can stay irrational
Longer than you can stay solvent. So this don't have to make no sense. Okay?
We're gonna continue not making sense and we're gonna do it until you either run out of money or
Like that's the thing like the markets don't make sense a lot of the times
But yeah, you know said that's crazy that we just we just said people putting groceries on credit cards is it is a non
It's not a normal thing. That's why what do you mean? Wait a minute? Yeah, so I mean again that's it to kind of supplement
Well, and then supplement their home by rolling in an eight-seater SUV
That's what I'm getting at like there's the American dream has obviously shifted and a lot of it shifted around what people can afford
On that credit number right on what's available to them as an extension right as an advance on some kind of labor
They might be able to ride in the future
I think there was always that joke of like, you know American sort of the American attitude and culture is that there's nobody in America
Is down and out we're all just temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? We're just waiting for the miracle to happen and
Unfortunately when that hopes, you know when it when it is also irrational, right?
Like we're saying when that hope is irrational we do
Absolutely crazy things that accelerate
You know that accelerate this kind of a downturn or accelerate this kind of a degenerate behavior with the finances. So
Yeah, no, it's just the whole the whole picture is just ugly in my opinion and hasn't for a while
Yeah, the whole thing come it's like on full display. It's like on full display in web 3 though, right?
It's like you see it like for its raw version is out here when you talk about these degenerate tendencies
Like you're seeing it. This is out here. This is this is ground zero and then is it something to see?
I mean, I know I haven't been like the I haven't been in this the longest
It's only been three years for me. But for those of y'all that have been in there longer. Oh my god
I don't know how like you like the
The stuff that you guys must have seen on these degenerate frontlines is is crazy
Well for sure, but let's let's talk about let's talk about degeneracy and craziness
degeneracy and craziness is is printing
the vast majority of current US dollars that have ever existed since the economic downturn I
in my opinion the generosity and craziness in governance is
Having what appears to be and you know
Maybe I'm way off what appears to be some kind of a central plan
To wean people from their own individual efforts and their own striving write their own desire to improve their own life
The American dream of even just middle-class
They they erased a lot of it with the last economic downturn and I don't think that was a central move per se
it's a centralized response, but
But it almost looks like there's a centralized plan to sort of slowly but surely get people to
Ask for to choose more of a socialist order versus versus being able to own the means of production for themselves
strive for what they want in life, you know push push for the you know the pursuit of
Life liberty and happiness, you know meaning financial prosperity to help buy those things and ownership rights to help protect those those things that you've earned
it seems like there's it seems like there's been an undercurrent the entire time of you will own nothing and
You know and the rest is really really your personal choice, right?
Are you happy or or you just are you just dealing with it?
But it does seem like there's been an inevitable move shift towards that and it plays into the game theory of the American
Mindset like no, no, no, I'm not down and out. No, no, no, I'm not putting groceries on a credit card
I'm earning rewards from my airline and I'm just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Don't worry about it. I'll come back in no time
You'll see I'll make it back in one trade
Yeah, and that's why I wake up
The way I do J. You see that that right there because if that's my reality
Nothing, you're one trade away from happiness. Right? Is that what you're saying?
That's yeah, that's that's not that's not addict behavior. No, no crypto isn't just at one giant fucking syringe
What happens if it goes the other way you're one step away from death is that what's going on from absolute destruction in your
I watch it go to zero. What do you mean? I stand idly by and I watch it go to zero. Oh
So so so wolf what was your um, I didn't I think I heard your story before what was your your deal of Wall Street
Did you work for a big bank or what? What?
Was your um, yes, so, um, yeah, so the second I the second I graduated college
I mean my dad was super insisted on like you're going to Wall Street
Meanwhile, I had no money management skills. Like my parents were like two immigrants. So it was like, okay like study and go
But yeah, I I went to work on what I worked on Wall Street as a market maker for 11 years
I started out at Royal Bank of Canada, which was eventually acquired by
Essentially acquired by another firm, but yeah, I worked directly on the trading floor and you see some wild wild stuff, man
When I mean that's like the belly of the beast, you know what I mean? Like that is where the
Where you hear when you hear about the Ken Griffin's, you know
And all these other companies and all these other like big like big-wig hedge funds that are naked shorting all these crazy freaking stocks
It was no repercussion whatsoever. And you know it don't get me wrong as a 22 year old
But eventually like it kind of wears on you and you're just like yeah, man
This system is fucking rigged like what is going on? Like this is crazy
But yeah, I spent 11 years there quit and then said I'm gonna go into sales and then somehow during COVID I ended up
Kind of discovering this this thing we call crypto and yeah, man. I fell in love with the blockchain and here we are
Yeah, I did try that's awesome I tried to hit Wall Street before
Yeah, wonderful. I moved just before the college. I I moved to
Back to New York and I said man. I got the bug. I said
Dude stocks me I can do this. Let's go. So I
Signed up for a program, but it wasn't gonna be available until I believe it was December
Tell you real quick. It was gonna be that December and I was excited. So I
Actually needed to do something in between then so I went into
This the high-end car dealership in in a angle eclipse, New Jersey
I don't know if you know that better or not
That's pretty pretty kind of wealthy place and felt it was it was nice
I can meet some people and then while I do this
I can probably get their info and show them, you know when I get kind of thinking a little bit in the future
Yeah, that was December of 2007 that that never happened by the way
What's funny is like you mentioned like Englewood cuz I saw I'm super familiar with it, right like so I'm a I'm a Brooklyn
Kid born and raised in New York
Spent 30 years of my life in New York. It's like it's to me
It's the best city in the world and then moved out here to the West Coast in the West Coast
I mean, LA is just something it's its own little planet. Like that's for sure
But when you mention like hey, I thought like like like Wall Street was for me
Oh, you were a broker and they automatically loop you in with like
The boiler rooms and the Wall Street and the butt foxes
Exactly the rip-on pharaoh tech is now two bucks. It's like come on man
But what people don't like a lot of people realize is like you do have to get sponsored to take a lot of these
Exams right like you want to take your series 7 you got to get sponsored
So you have to find a firm that will sponsor you for this
So I had to go looking like I'm a date myself here
I had to go looking through the New York Post to be able to find a place that said hey
We're sponsoring, you know new brokers, right now mind you I became a trader
But in order to get your license, you have to get the seven which is mostly for brokers
So I find this place when I tell you
The chop shop of chop shops. This was it but like when people say oh you guys are all slick talking New Yorkers
These are the guys that they were talking about
I'm sitting in a back room learning about you know
Options and bonds and and all this other shit for the series 7 the guys are in the front being like I come to you
One idea all year and this is it and I'm like, this is something's going. This is not right out here, but
Hey, you stick with it. You get sponsored you pass your seven and uh, the rest is just like in the movies
Yeah, New York is a New York and the Wall Street crowd is a is a very very
Unique environment. Let's just say don't tell me you're a peddling. You were peddling chick coins to grandma. Come on, bro
Not that's what I'm saying, bro. Like I wasn't on the phone pitching stock, right?
I was working on the trading floor where like if you know, Joe Schmoe high net worth client, right goes to his
Smith Barney broker and says I want to buy a hundred fifty thousand shares of Microsoft
They're routing that order down to us, right? We're the execution point
So all of the like the different market makers that people see like people don't really see this because you only see like nobody
Really looks at like level through like two or three quotes
They just kind of see like where their price point like what like where the price is trading at
They don't really know bid ask whatever they should but they don't know bitter ask
Yeah, essentially, it's you know
The endpoint of where all the order flow goes and this is where you get into the Robin Hoods and paying for order flow
And we're democratizing finance. Yeah bullshit. You just round order flow back to Ken Griffin my guys
But yeah, it's a it's an ugly thing and the blockchain is that's why I kind of fell in love with the blockchain man
Like look, it's not perfect right now. Like shit. It's a it's the Wild West out here
But I think I think it's the right direction
Genuinely believe like it like wholeheartedly like this is the right to rule headed in the right direction when it comes to the blockchain
Kind of kind of but now now the same people that were that we that we're you know
Ragging on and fighting against there. They're now in here, right?
So where I mean, we can't we can't we can't win, dude
Dude, I mean, it's it look at look at look at this garbage, right? So what what's the current stat right now? I think I
Think with this, you know now ETF fiasco
What was it fifty two thousand? I think or something like that that blackrock hat owns now in Bitcoin. Is it is it fifty thousand?
I over two billion. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, they're over two billion dollars, right? So so not now they have that right great
What did that nothing because why they OTC that which is what happens?
They OTC. There's no there's no
There's no pump, right? I mean, maybe if they're not necessarily
I mean, maybe they OTC did right but but but but from who though Jay like I think blackrock actually went and actually
Purchased those from the open market. I don't think they actually OTC does I think they will
Now they will and I think that's where I agree with you the cause for maybe like like the concern for maybe
Manipulation is because I mean OTC deaths are gonna happen regardless and the whole point of this shit is so that we can see everything
On chain, but I don't know. It's like almost like the lesser of two evils
It's like we want the adoption and the only way we're gonna get the adoption is if you know, you know
Mary teacher or you know, you know
Joe police officer is gonna have Bitcoin in their 401k and in his retirement plan. It's it's it's that simple
That's the fastest way to it. Do you see another way?
Yeah, no, I I kind of see that that same position
It was kind of funny because I I forgot that that grayscale had
That little interest spike way right where they were borrowing to accumulate Bitcoin and then all of a sudden they they
They dumped I see another buy from them
Do you do you see another buy from from grayscale or cuz I mean that was what was that a billion right a billion in Bitcoin?
Is that what they drop? I?
I think it was way more and I think that's what kind of skewed people to where when you know
Like the by the rumors sell the news, right?
You saw the run-up like that we had leading up to the ETF approval almost up to like 49 little 49 like right under 50k
I think that kind of what showed people is then all of a sudden it was like, oh, this is gonna be great
People sold on the news, but then when you started seeing like these charts where you were looking at net inflows versus net outflows
It wasn't a staggering right? Like it was like wait a minute
This this is it but that was people getting out of the grayscale trade a lot of like people
Institutions like they were in this trade
Because they genuinely thought that they were gonna make some money
It was like almost like a layup until it wasn't and what we saw from grayscale essentially
I called it like it's like the perch it was people just getting the fuck out as fast as they can
Taking their losses and it just is just my opinion. And I think now that we've done that
I think now is where you're gonna start seeing some serious price discovery like for Bitcoin because to me I
Again my opinion no NFA yada yada yada. What do you mean? Aren't you a financial advisor? This is finance, right?
Thought the series seven was that was the one that just lets you say this this would be financial advice if you were retaining
me do we have to even have to do that happy out like
One Solana one shit coin, come on talk to me some financial devices
No, man, I I truly believe that this is where like I think Bitcoin is is
It's gonna blow the top right now. I think it's
We're in for it's gonna be a little bit of a rocky ride
But I'm super super bullish on on everything that uh, that that's associated with Bitcoin right now. Just to me
It's it well, that's when I guess when I say that and then everybody starts thinking that that's when you gotta go
Follow up on that could that with it with a question that cuz we're cuz what we keep hearing also is people saying like
Oh, yeah. Well the narrative behind Bitcoin now is so bullish like with the ETF
And now we're seeing a bunch of retail interest in in just all kinds of Bitcoin related products
That means of course it stacks
RSK and some of these other layer twos even lightning, right?
Everything's gonna it's gonna experience and sort of an uplift because of this this interest in Bitcoin
And I'm kind of curious what your take is on that because it's nuanced, right?
Like I said before crypto kind of complicates things, but what's your view on on that the whole Bitcoin ecosystem?
Not just Bitcoin proper. I
Excuse me. I would say that is probably full disclosure
That's my biggest bag is the is the Bitcoin ecosystem the layer two stacks ecosystem. I
Think I mean me personally again
I've only been in this for three years
But I've never seen anything more clear in my life than I do this and what I mean by that is
Like if you're if you're bullish on Bitcoin, right and you have this spotty TF now that was just approved
You're gonna have all this institutional money now coming in you think these institutions are gonna be like yep
I'm gonna wait around for you know
30 minutes until the block is confirmed and to know that my money safe
They're just not right and what stacks is building and what they're coming with in terms of this Nakamoto upgrade
Right is five-second block times with Bitcoin finality at the end of the day
Like that's that's as good as it's gonna get and in my opinion
That's just it's just the next like like they're gonna turn their head and be like, oh, what's this? Oh
Okay, so we can operate a lot faster with the same security. Yeah, that makes sense
Yeah, but but you know you're for your failed to
See the finality of it. So yeah, I mean look at look at what inscriptions did
Right. Let's just take a look at that. Let's let's go back to taproot
Inscriptions all the lovely, you know word salad that that you can put on on Bitcoin, right?
So you had something that was transacting on the blockchain, right?
That wasn't just a standard transfer right from wall to wallet, right? And what was it doing? It was
BTC the pit or you know BTC the Bitcoin core the foundation whatever those developers
Look Luke Dash. I'm talking to you. Um, they they refused to scale this right? They do they refuse to scale this
So because of that refusal it was even backing up lightning transactions, right? So
Look at look at the 911 that's happening there, buddy. I mean that that's that's that's uh
That's an indicator and it depends how you look at it
Yeah, but it depends how you look at it
Right like from a minor perspective right when you saw all these full blocks and right like the miners don't back up
I think at one point bro. Yeah, but we're not a minor. I mean, that's what I'm I don't care to be a minor
I mean I mine other things that are profitable, but you know in in in bitcoins perspective, you know
What's what's a minor a massive building with like a thousand, you know a six and and all that stuff is it?
It's it's a it's a mining farm right not not a standard user a mining farm is like bring it
Bring it. But what is but what is you know, yeah the layer above this door of out?
What's the layer you're telling me you're embedded in the ecosystem, please talk because the ecosystem is
designed by nature to fail bitcoins and listen that that's that's just a
Raw perspective of what I see and and the folks that were behind
Inscriptions made it very public that they were there to break Bitcoin, right?
They wanted to break because it's a fight right this the BSB guys. There's a fight between
BSB, you know Craig Craig whoever right and and you know the
The core foundation right Bitcoin core. So, you know, it's a fight between BSB and and BTC
You know dominance, right?
So you have one that's and not to get too much into the weeds about this because this is more or less on the on
The economy side, but you know, you're looking at this from from a store value
But then you told me that it's it's an ecosystem thing. Okay, so talking about the equals is I know the store value dude
I I know tokenomics, you know tokenomics say, you know with more supply coming out and higher demand price pumps
Right that that's just you know, basic math, you know, of course, man
There's demand, you know, then your theta values all blah blah blah, but not to get too much into that
But talk to me about the ecosystem because so far I'm seeing something being scaled over something that's being refused to scale
So I mean said there's that what is that there's that unstoppable force and immovable object thing kind of kind of hitting each other
Yep, so when I said store value I meant in terms of how are you looking at this or how are you actually using?
I think it kind of it kind of depends on which side you stand on but the fact remains is the scaling solution if
If Bitcoin were to quote continue to have this quote problem
Of you know blocks not being confirmed like transaction drop
Like if that's the case the scaling solution is the ecosystem in which I like that
I'm in now, which is stacks and the stacks like ecosystem is I mean between like if you if you
And I wasn't around for this time
So maybe you guys can enlighten me because it sounds like you guys like I've been around for a minute
but when a cerium like right first came online when you when you look at like the
The first liquidity pools right that that were created
I look at what's happening now like on the on on these layer twos like something like stacks, right?
And I'm saying to myself this is it's like they're doing this for the first time
Right, and when you like a big thing for me is I follow the money
Where is the money going and when you amass when the stacking Dow, right?
mass is over 20 million dollars in TVL and in less than 30 days and
Like more than half of that was in the first three
Like that to me that to me signify something that there's something going on here
So I'm with you right like Bitcoin does need to skip like it needs to scale
That's first and foremost. I think this is I just think stacks is the solution to is the solution to that
But there is no denying also the volume on the bit like on Bitcoin has steadily
I guess when you look at quote NFT volume whether it's ordinals inscriptions. It has steadily been going down
There was a point where last month
I mean you could have combined Solana and aetherium volume NFT volume and you couldn't even touch Bitcoin and now Bitcoin is sitting
You know under in the third spot like, you know every day behind aetherium and Solana
so it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting to see it's good, it's really gonna be interesting to watch and see kind of how this
Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm big on it. I'm big. I'm not maxi big, you know, cuz if it does turn the other way
I will cut and run like a mofo, but
He's loyal to the bag that's
Loyal to the bag is a thing man. It's alright. It's like a round to the shape goddamn stop stop giving people grief over
Over their life traces, but let me ask more about that bag because you mentioned stack specifically on the L on the L2 for scaling
But but as far as and that's why I brought that up with with the ecosystem as you mentioned Bitcoin specifically
There's so much being built there. I've got to admit
I was a little bit surprised when we looked at DeFi Lana last time
I think Jane I were informally just um, I forget where we were when we were talking about it with scaling
We brought up DeFi llama as one really great source right of DeFi info because it's open source
right D Bank is very good about accepting pull requests from projects and and
Ecosystems and tries to bring as much of an objective view on some of these these markets as it can by using on-chain data and
Stacks it took me off guard like what you said about adding 20 million in TVL
I didn't see it coming. I didn't see the trend and I missed it for a couple of months
So it was it did hit me in the face with them, you know with a large, you know, nine figures of TVL
It was like damn that it seemed like it came out of nowhere to me
So I saw a little bit of validation of what you're saying there wolf about stacks coming up
But I'm still wondering how that how that ever comes the much larger macro trend of tokenization on EVM style chains
I mean for the longest time wrapped Bitcoin. There was a greater supply of wrapped Bitcoin than there was
Bitcoin held in lightning channels, right? That was one metric that was being used for scaling
Before 2020 right before before stacks really started to take off
But but yeah W just WTC and then other other means of wrapping Bitcoin on
Both aetherium and then other competing EVMs like polygon
Seems like that was another meaningful way of achieving some scale with bitcoins current available supply
But the thing about blockchain is it's you know, it's not just decentralized
It's permissionless and adversarial like these are not
Like in the on chain world
They're gonna be things that developers and the communities can do that regulators can't hope to be ahead of right?
So I don't think we're done seeing
Alternate means of scaling such as wrapping on you know unique systems
like even ecosystems that maybe we don't favor like ICD right or
Wrapped Bitcoin on the on the XRP ledger, right?
we can't stop anybody from doing it and and we may see that there's an there's even more TVL that just flows into some of
These weird little communities and pockets and and that there are other dark horse candidates like stacks that they come out in the next little while
But hey, we got Matthew on stage now. Welcome. What's going on Matthew?
Gm. Gm. Everybody. Thanks so much for having me up here. Great to see you Jay and
And Seth too and wolf awesome to see the new the new profile come up
I've been following you for a little bit and just happy to see more
Finance-minded people in the space and folks who certainly take a deeper look into the ecosystem. Yeah, fantastic, dude. Thank you
Thank you for coming up. So we're chatting about you know, kind of general market decisions like this like lovely, you know, Jerome Powell's
FOMC, you know garbage going on the anyways, so yeah kind of a kind of just getting viewpoints, dude
What what's you know, what's what's your thoughts on this man? Is it? I mean, is there something to worry about as we you know
Go to trades obviously not financial advice and this is just for you personally, you know as you're you know
An educator and the speaker and an author. Let's go
Yeah, no, and I certainly love the conversation about
Broadening the ecosystem, especially from a Bitcoin perspective and seeing the new things that are coming into that ecosystem
So we'll definitely agree with you there. I love the stacks
Play and I always I always have like this interesting mind
Concept or it's just sort of like mental model that like if you think of everything where we are today in the world all those
Things whether it's TV internet blockchains weapons all these things existed
Prior to anybody inventing them like it was just a matter of people coming together
Putting the right puzzle pieces together learning and innovating and then creating new pieces on top of that
So when we look at Bitcoin as a financial ecosystem, it's only been around for you know
15 years people who were younger than 30
It's been around for more than half those people's lives
And Bitcoin is something that's going to continue to pervade our ecosystems and our finances over the course of time
So I love to think that there are new ways that we're gonna build on top of that whether it's through ordinals or whether it's
Through stacks or DeFi different mechanisms that we're gonna use to really build out this ecosystem in a way that's yeah
Maybe it's clunky right now
But we're gonna see just a ton of interesting adoption in this space
And that's why I think from a perspective of looking at the FOMC and sort of the Jerome Powell pieces the macro
Economics of this are very important because you're seeing a lot of challenges on the macro side regarding inflation
You've got these conflicts from a war perspective that are certainly not helpful
You've got and like just a number of different challenges that are going on and people are kind of looking over their shoulder going hmm
This Bitcoin thing is kind of interesting. What do you mean?
There's not an intermediary or third party or a government that's behind this and I think people are starting to sort of think of this
In a newer kind of way. Hopefully there's some Super Bowl ads that come through the
the TV airways in the next couple weeks that people seem like a little bit wise and
You know some of these other different ETFs that come out so we can get them into 401k
So we can grow this adoption and get more people
Comfortable with holding this as an asset in the store of value and I think that it's just really powerful to see
So it's definitely nothing to fade at this point
Somebody brought up a great analogy today
Which was if you had the British and the French fighting each other in like a world war and one of them had gunpowder and the
the people who have arrows like don't have the ability to win this war unless they figure out how to create gunpowder and how to
Create what like bullets so the the countries that we are seeing now
Don't we're soon going to be at a point where people don't have an option to come into this ecosystem to adopt some sort of
Technology like a Bitcoin in this sense to help from from a monetary perspective
So just a lot of really interesting things going on on the space and definitely not concerned about where we are
I think this is a great growing pain ecosystem to be in right now
We're kind of in the fits and starts and I think of Bitcoin is like a teenager, right? Like you love it to death
It's doing all these amazing things. It's trying really hard, but it does run around and break shit from time to time
And you got to be okay with that
What very well said like I couldn't agree more like that analogy it like was perfect to me
And I think what people also lose sight of a lot of the time is we're sitting here talking about rap Bitcoin, right?
Imagine like like what is going on right now is this is the default the defy boom 2.0
But yet it's on Bitcoin because that rap Bitcoin that was the majority of it that was sitting on aetherium
You could do nothing with it
Nothing at all, right like people over here on aetherium now looking for places of where they can squeeze out some extra liquidity
I think your NFTs and let's do this right now is this is this is this is ground zero for the defy boom on
Bitcoin and I and to me look I wasn't around like when like I said with aetherium
But I'll be damned if I'm gonna if I'm gonna miss
If I'm gonna miss this defy boom and the amount of money that is going to be unlocked
From these different ecosystems just like stacks. There is no way in hell. I'm missing that
And you gotta remember to this
The stuff that's out of favor is always the most important stuff to look at and people think of Bitcoin is like this rock
That doesn't really do much until all of a sudden it does a whole bunch of things and then people get really interested
So I just mean that to say like when things are out of favor
That's typically a good time to consider them from a purchase perspective
Yeah, I don't know it's when it comes to Bitcoin to them
Maybe and maybe this is where I'm a little bit ruined for for talk about innovation on Bitcoin in that that
You know, I associate with a couple of OG developers who were working on
things like adding and injecting data into the blocks on the OP return and OP check sig multi-sig
Open fields right in in the Bitcoin blocks back in like 2010 2011 and they talk about the iterations of this stuff
Right. So before there were ordinals. There was this project called rare Pepe's that was just it was just that
It was a very very rudimentary NFT that was injected into the Bitcoin blockchain and and you know, I personally know somebody
Who took an indecent photo of himself and transformed it into ASCII art?
And there is a block that that features a very private part of him, right?
You can say that he's definitely he's he's left his mark on a Bitcoin blockchain in a way that you know
Few few will ever fully appreciate but it's there and the point is again
It's these are permissionless systems people can people can toy with them. And like you said, it does break
But it's not that if Bitcoin itself breaks if the culture is checking to see what it can get away with
Right then because yeah the the network really is at the at the end of the day behind every node
There are people right and if they want to try to they want to try new things Bitcoin
Yeah, the claim that Bitcoin is ossified right this that's that that's the term the maxis love to use ossification
It's like, okay got it. So it's so it's kind of it's withering and turning into bone. It's hardening got it
It's turning into a rock it you want it turn into a rock like the analogy was used before
Maxis actually want this some actually want this
Because they wanted to become some kind of a standard but it's just it's it's so far away from being finished, right?
It's so far away from being complete and I think that's why Satoshi laid out a roadmap of work, right?
And it's I don't think that Satoshi was trying to leave intentionally technical debt for other teams to you know
To messes for others to clean up
But I think there's a reason that the that they token emissions on each block that the block subsidy
It's called for for mining and for security. I think there's a reason that it reaches all the way through the year 2140 and
I mean and this is me just being optimistic if bitcoins survives that entire time
Go that far is to incentivize development not to not to incentivize participation
but to incentivize active development so that it stays thriving and kind of a
You know a good frothy environment
Yeah for more stuff to be built on top of but I think we're still very far away from being you know air quotes boring, right?
The we talked about this pretty regularly the financial systems of most states in the Union. They use ancient coding language, right?
It's called cobalt these an ancient coding language for things like entitlement programs for for most
like you talked to the whatever the comptroller of
Any major city or any major state and they're gonna tell you yay
Our financial systems are incredibly boring like nothing happens there and we like it that way
We just want to make sure that money gets routed from a to B and and by the way B is millions of people
So it has to be boring just at work every day
so I think there are a lot of Bitcoin maxis who imagine that that's what Bitcoin is is is capable of today and
You still look at it and and you have kind of in my opinion rogue developers in the Bitcoin core
you know community or the Bitcoin core sort of cadre of Bitcoin developers and
It's like they're trying their hardest to maintain that that sort of adolescent or teenager status that Matthew was talking about where it's like
Really you had to break that you you personally you're a person the code didn't break you broke the code like you had to go
Turn this thing and back into a teenager yet
You're you're out here crawling about how no rule is gonna be like it's gonna be like training rails
It's gonna the freight payloads of you know of data and value of the future
We're laying these tracks for generations to come and Bitcoin will will be you know
Essentially the financial financial forthright who will last for a thousand years. It's like it just gets weird
That's all I'm saying. It's cold like a little bit. So I do worry a tiny bit about putting too much stock in flexible financial systems or
Boring financial systems in Bitcoin yet. I just think we still have quite a bit. It's not an exaggeration to say we're early there
That is definitely not an exaggeration
I think I guess also like when you think of like payment systems and payment rails
Like I don't I don't think Bitcoin is anywhere like really near there
Right like for at least on the on a large scale. It's it's I don't think it's there yet
I think if your M has a very very big I guess lead if you want to call it
Just from looking at things like CC IP and what chain link is doing and you know
How these banks now are gonna be able to settle transactions instantaneously because let's be serious
They'll give up those old systems real quick if they can settle transactions
And it'll be cheaper and they can train take to take the same cut
But yet now it's less risk and now we're settling that much faster
Yeah, but yeah, I don't think Bitcoin is there is there just yet
But there's something to be said about being at the beginning of something and I think maybe for me
Maybe that's part of the allure to I'm kind of like Star Trek
I'm like, I've never been this early to something like this and I and seen it so and see it so clearly
I'm just like, holy shit. Is this this is real? Like I'm here. Yeah, so
Maybe there's something to that as well
Yeah, well, well, it looks it looks like you've never played in the shit coin world just saying I'm playing let me stop. Oh
No, no, come on now. You can't have a Bitcoin conversation. They say shit coin believe you me. I've been in the shit one world
Yeah, we need stories. We need pics and receipts. Oh
Yeah, I got I got three letters. I got three letters and three words you go fuck yourself. Yeah
That's what your bags will tell you once you go into shit coins, that's great
They'll tell you to go screw yourself and get you to zero. Um, so
looking looking at at least the
Fintech structure right where banks are massively a liquid right? Yeah going to speaking of shit coins, right?
Let's talk about banks where they're going. They're massively a liquid, right? They've loaned out a hundred percent of your money and
Re-loan that at least 12 to 16 times right go go to a bank and
If you happen to have an extra 12 15 grand, you know, whatever just ask them. Hey
Let me let me have this I would like my money right now. No, no, no, that's not what happens because when you sign up
Whether you're in North America, I mean, I believe Europe's kind of similar way
But they have little different rules I and I and I see Nathan Hill down below
so I love to talk a little mess about Europe and and Glenn too, so
When you sign those those documents usually take a chance just scan it in and let barge summarize it for you
Right because who knows all those legal terms whatever maybe some of you guys do up here. You guys are pretty smart
So regardless, so they have a lot of legal terms a lot of you know
Kind of roundabout ways of getting you confused right so you don't know what what you're signing so
In there specifically says that you will have to you can request that but it's up to the bank's discretion, right?
How fast they give to you, right?
So because they don't obviously have that liquidity handy
So they have to request that liquidity and turned a fictitious number on a computer screen into a real tangible
You know dollar way to say it's real whatever whatever the argument is there
But it's something that you're taking away from them for yourself
So looking looking at how illiquid they are and how low the interest rates are going
There is something that that's coming. That's gonna be another shift. We'll feel like this. So
DeFi infrastructure right now. That is a hundred percent fintech compliant
Everybody tries to blow smoke in the air. Oh, we're we're gonna be Clinton. No, no, no, I know for a fact
There's one they took a close to two years to comply with regulations and to be
Something that banks can offer their clients, right? So
This is a this is this is gonna be pretty groundbreaking as far as the adoption curve
Right because now we have ETFs that they can go into now. There's a certain large bank
That's going to be offering large as in one of the top five from globe in the world that that's going to be offering a
Crypto DeFi infrastructure where you can get anywhere between five percent to thirty percent on your money
Right and just you just by just by reaction probably don't even know what this is because they're going through some marketing
Infrastructure, but they they were you know, they were doing the fintech compliance that that was their hundred percent priority
So they they would it got underway
They have the partnership laid out and it's much more or less a timing when it comes now watch this. So
You have that you have the ETF, right? And then you have other you know layers on top of layers that
Are making things let's say for example, you know and lightning whatever
But then you also have like tech them if you guys been paying attention to you know
Some of the crypto channels they they've been saying this tech them thing
I found them a while back had an AMA with those guys and it's it's pretty incredible what they what they have going on
Gasless transactions on pretty much everything right so far right now is Bitcoin, but he's is next, you know
Whatever else is gonna be completely nice. It's incredible, you know, if you guys haven't seen that but this shift that's happening
For me is the most bullish shift
I mean that I have seen specifically with with the fintech side things right because these banks are desperate dude
They're so desperate. They're causing wars
Right. I mean that that's kind of what happens, right? I mean they get central banks nervous enough
They cause wars so, you know, however you guys feel about that. Oh tin foil had conspiracy
Wow, whatever but you know, it's pretty apparent, you know
You can go back and go back in history and look at history before Google deletes all the history, right?
So you just look go look back and and kind of check that stuff out
But yeah, so man, I I don't know dude. It's a good time to be to be where we're at
I mean regardless of what you know are this did the feds decision and and how they decide to pivot yet
It I think it's gonna lead
Us more give us more of a use case right especially you know us in us in crypto
Right. It's gonna give us more of a use case. Wait Jake. Yes
You're not gonna leave us hanging on the pick, right? You said there's only one only one company
Is that were you talking about tech them? Are we talking about something else? I want to be clear on you
Don't leave me off of the clip over here. I gotta leave you hanging. I gotta leave you hanging
Maybe maybe we'll talk about him next week. Maybe we'll talk about him next week
Their partnerships not gonna be for another I believe in other months or so, but maybe we'll talk about next week
Let's go. Keep you hanging bro. Let give you wanting for more
No, but but I mean, yeah, but I'll say is it my think
There's an element of that though. I don't know. No, I'm just gonna say there's an element of this
Oh also that where we were crypto crypto works as a as a change candidate in the financial sector
Precisely because it operates in the gray at first
It wouldn't be a change candidate if it was if ever if we if we had every single green light right between here and the destination
For for that new tech it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work
That would mean it's just part of the the previous system, right?
That would mean it's blessed by by the previous system where we know that there's rehypothecation to the tune of 12 to 16 acts
Like you're saying on the just that every dollar you put inside of the bank
Entering the this ecosystem in a fully compliant way in my mind that almost doesn't work
And let me let me bring as a receipt here every major tech startup that's ever launched and I mean the Google's the even the Microsoft's
the the Amazon's all of these other these other groups that they've always
bent rules or outright broken smaller rules in favor of
Bringing something new to the market because people want it not because regulators want it
I mean and it's corny right but but Henry Ford his whole quote about like, you know
If I gave if I gave the market what it wanted thought it wanted, you know, I would have built a faster horse
You have to bring things that that break that genuinely break paradigms that don't just bring like new tech
But that also just like okay
Well, you got like cobblestone roads if you have a road at all. Everything else is dirt. It's not easy to drive a car on
There's you really do have to shake things up
That means that in a financial ecosystem that might mean that like, okay. Well, the roads aren't paved. How do we make this run here?
Well, we got to build we got to pave the roads
There's all these little these little things you have to build along the way
And if you think that it's going to be fully regular have full regulatory compliance from day one
My previous little rant I was talking about how a lot of the code base of financial
The financial sector is written in a 60 plus year old coding language. How in god's green earth?
Are we going to make a next generation bleeding edge blockchain ecosystem?
Match perfectly to that like, you know like a puzzle piece. I just don't think it'd be done without breaking some things or at least
Shaking some things up a little bit
Right. Um, if you're going to the mechanic shop and you see, you know
You see your favorite mechanic trying to remove a rusted bolt or something, right? Got to bust out the mallet a little bit of um
You know and and start shocking the system a little bit in order to get things loose because they're so they're so
Run together and rusted tight. Um, and that's a lot of our financial ecosystem
I mean you mentioned earlier wolf you're like, uh
Well, you know 30 minutes to wait for a transaction to go through 30 minutes to see if your trades go through
Mev was the best thing to ever happen to any trading desk
Because it meant all you had to do to get your trade first was pay a little more
Or pay a little more or pay a little more than that or just pay more than the next guy
And so those gas fee marketplaces where god sent right to desks like that now
It it congregates power and a lot of blockchain systems do they congregate, you know buying power
They they uh, they definitely favor those who have higher net worth because you can pay those fees
Um, but uh, but when you talk about the inconvenience like oh man 30 minutes for a confirmation bro
When you remember the last wire transfer you sent
Shit, I mean any blockchain right any blockchain is preferable to to the the current system
It just is but in my opinion that means it needs to shake things up
And so the best candidate moving forward might not be the one that launches with regulatory compliance
but the one with enough of a war chest that can handle the repercussions and the consequences of launching without full regulatory compliance
While the rules are being decided and then they can conform, you know
As as we as stuff gets broken and then and then the system is picking up the pieces, you know together with uh
With whatever that chitta that successful change candidate is
Um, anyway, just as a concept. I don't think regulatory compliance is the goal
It's almost like let's let's ask for forgiveness
Let's not i'm not trying to ask for permission just go break some shit
And let's like we're gonna figure that out because if we sit back and we just wait for like it's a
Snails pays at the end of the day
It's just what it is and like that like when I heard you talking Seth
I'm thinking to myself like yeah, you're gonna have to break some shit
And it's like when I look at how the web2 world
right was looking at bitcoin and when you see jamie diamond and all this bullshit, I think of uh,
Like that that infamous gandhi quote all the time that they were quoting where it was like first
They ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you
And then you win if we are not in that exact cycle right now
I don't know what like I see that so clear that it to me
It's it's literally forget written on the walls. It's slapping you in the face
So I couldn't agree with you more on on on every single point that you just know like go break some shit
That's how we change stuff
Like go break bitcoin yeah matthew you don't have to you don't go
They think yeah, yeah, yeah, I think challenge has been accepted matthew you don't have to raise your hand and just just hop in
Word, uh, I just also think it's funny you talk about the war chest
Um, you know i'm just checking 99 bitcoins today
It's a fantastic website that talks about all the bitcoin obituaries and bitcoin has died officially
475 times in the 15 years that it's been around so we talk about resilience in a war chest
Like it's amazing to see the anti fragility of this ecosystem
And it's just phenomenal to see so I encourage anybody to look at that website
It's got some amazing quotes in there, too
So deaths by year, but I also want to set talk about you know
Kind of this this really interesting dynamic that
There has been no incentive for any financial institution or government to enhance
Or make this system more efficient more accessible for people. There is more profit in in
Token-gating web 2 in a web 2 sense token-gating banking
preventing people from getting banked and and allowing people from a rich, you know, wealthy perspective to to keep those
Those dollars in their pocket and there's just been no incentive for people to enhance the system
And that's one of the challenges that we've seen
And one of the reasons why this is still running around and breaking shit right now is because
We're trying to figure out how these puzzle pieces fit together
And there's this grassroots opportunity from a bitcoin perspective and in a blockchain perspective in general
To say the way the way that you've been doing this for so many years. I mean swift in the 1970s, right?
The the rails and the payment systems that you're using are so archaic and so embedded into the ecosystems that you have now
That you're not incentivized to make any changes
You're not incentivized to allow more people in to make things more efficient. Your fees are going to go to zero
People aren't going to use your custody. They're going to do this themselves and there's they're just terrified
And so there's it's just amazing to see the lack of incentives from larger institutions to adopt this and to fight it
I don't know man. You're the guy who's a picture like wolf. I don't know
You got to tell us man. Give us help help. Uh, yeah help help us understand the the moral edge here
I'm not touching that. I was just cracking. I was just cracking the joke, right? I mean
That's right. Yeah, no, i'm not touching that that was just my little green is good. No, no, no
I need it on the soundboard. Honestly, I need it on a soundboard like yesterday. Um,
Good. Yeah, no, every single one of these conversations, but you know, I love that
Matthew like you're saying also, uh, the knowing that knowing that we have to shake things up. I mean and have a incentives align
Um, you when you like what are the taxi lobbies, right? Every everybody who held a medallion in new york city
How did they feel about uber?
Right when you when you bought a medallion for a taxi for a million bucks, right?
It ran you a million bucks to get your medallion
How do you feel about letting anybody who downloads an app on their iphone compete with you?
Right. It's it's not welcome news to anybody
And so you ask the bankers like hey, how do you feel about anybody with an internet connection?
It can be a shitty internet connection even to sync a blockchain. I don't know. Most people don't realize that
It's not a very high bandwidth thing. It's acceptable and it's um, it's doable in developing nations
um, but you know, how do you think some of these some of these steering committees right and uh and governments and and
And financial professionals feel about like, okay
Yeah, the barrier to entry is an internet connection and any device that was manufactured. Oh, I don't know sometime in the last 15 years
Bar is really really pretty freaking low to participate in any in any blockchain, right?
So I think that's where that that resistance comes from. It's like, oh, well, are you qualified?
You know which which of you is a ser an active series seven holder, you know to advise this this endeavor
It was satoshi credentialed. Is he qualified to to make these decisions?
I mean the white paper kind of shows quite a bit of intelligence more intelligence than I think one person possesses
So I think it's a resounding. Yes, right probably committee right or or the the joint committee probably international, right of
Of intelligence agencies that that that called themselves satoshi, whatever. I mean
We'll we'll save that conspiracy theory for a different show
But uh, but yeah, they were intelligent enough and it's it's evident in the writing and it's evident in the code, right?
So the credentials and the qualifications seem to matter less because the product is is clearly, uh masterfully crafted
Um, but but is it is it welcome news still? No, so there's still I think the majority of financial professionals are saying well
You know, we need the guardrails. We need consumer protections, right?
We need to make sure that that you know
Something as simple as chargebacks is is possible in this ecosystem because we need to control that
And know that the the freedom that that bitcoin and that other cryptocurrencies offer is dangerous. It is
It is very very dangerous freedom. Um, it's it's
As powerful as a you know as a weapon as a firearm, right?
You got to be careful which point which direction you have it pointed when you're using it because it's final, right?
Can't talk about bitcoin or cryptocurrency without but eventually referring to how how dangerous it is
But I don't know I I I kind of I kind of love the danger factor
That's it. It is part of the sex appeal of crypto to me
But anyway, well and and that's what's so interesting
So in in january like early january
I went and traveled on a friday and I drove around to 25 different wealth managers and family offices in the rali durham area
And I wanted to ask the people because i'm you know
Like wolf like credential in the space is really important understanding how you can give financial advice
Be able to hold assets trade assets
Those are like really important factors in the logistics of how people from a larger adoption
Like a larger adoption perspective will get into this, you know, 401ks pension funds endowments, etc
And there there was one or two people that wanted to sit down and have a conversation with me about cryptocurrencies bitcoin and the etf specifically
Everybody else was very much not interested. They considered it a scam
They considered it no store of value even in and really had reticence to even talk to me about their rationale as if they heard this
thing and and they saw the netflix documentaries about people scamming folks and and they just
You know entrenched themselves in that belief
And they they're reticent to even have a conversation about it because they're so entrenched to say like this is clearly a scam
This people use this for drugs and sex trafficking, etc
And it was just astonishing to see not only their reticence for that
But also when I asked the question do people come to you do clients ask about this?
And there's also just kind of an interesting aside like is their education or how are people being told about this and shown this?
And then you see these documentaries on netflix or you see
You know ftx commercials at the super bowl where you have celebrities endorsing some of the stuff that turns out to be total fraud
or you have you know, the
The media out there talking about this in a negative way and it really just entrenches people into their beliefs into this cognitive dissonance that
Well, I can't ever change my mind because clearly this is a bad thing
And so there's a long way to go from an educational perspective and helping people at least at the retail level
You know how this how this ecosystem can work and I actually just took a I say this tongue in cheek
the role of treasurer at a faith-based institution an episcopal church in my neighborhood because they were looking to to have one rolled off and
And brought me on because i'm an ria
And they managed 15 million dollars and i'll be on there for three years and I won't say it at the very beginning
But i'll tell all of you that my intention is to get them to seriously consider how to allocate a small portion of their portfolio
To bitcoin because I think that it is the right thing to do and I think that there's
The only way to do this is a step-by-step approach where you give them a little bit of the cookie
And you just say here's a little bit. Just try this a little bit and I go, oh, that's not so bad
The water's pretty warm over here. Maybe there's a little bit of volatility, but it's probably toward the upside
And it's gonna it's gonna protect you against inflation and some of the other things that you're, you know
Concerned about from a wealth preservation perspective. So education is just a huge huge piece of this
That's amazing and and I appreciate you uh, letting us in on your nefarious plan
Please give us some insider information before you make your moves so we know when to when to place our orders
Hey, we have a new we have a new challenger has entered the arena marco. Welcome. Oh, buddy marco. What's up, man?
Yo, jay yo, sir, am I allowed to talk because I made that big faux part last week for the for the
No more politeness, I need rudeness from you, sir
Yeah, this is a motherfucking dojo
No, no, it's not it's not happening step not happening. And uh, just to something that dave said earlier dave
Uh, I think you said you were trying to i'm paraphrasing. You're trying to crack a joke dave. Don't bother don't give up your day job, you know
Jokes are not going to work my friends
Do you know what uh dave's been threatening to uh, what what was the last threat he gave me i'll kick you from my space
Now i'm guessing i'm gonna get a block. Oh
Marco's like the most polite freaking brittany ever. What kind of animal are you wolf? What's going? Oh, you're a wolf
There you go. That's what you got
But I uh, I came up because uh matthew matthew you made some great points i've not heard you speak before um, love love the loved
Listening into you guys. We made some great points a couple of things. I uh
I just want to uh, maybe double down on or talk a little bit more too
The block gain as a technology is what we would term in tech
As a disruptor now disruptor is a very overly
Used word for me because trust me I get pitch decks every single day saying they're disrupting this or game changing that
The irony is there are actually very few companies that have actually disrupted a space
And it's interesting seph. I think you mentioned uber uber was a disruptor
Uh netflix is a disruptor and if we look at those two companies in particular
And I know you referenced amazon and microsoft
But actually i'd like to put them to one side and look at the companies that have actually disrupted spaces
Nobody wanted them to play. Okay, the the collective organizations
Said no, we'll we'll put rules and regulations and build monopolies and conglomerates
So that people can't come into the space and those two companies came in and broke that all down and I look at blockchain
As potentially doing the same now. Here's the difference I guess and I know this might sound
A person who does the job that he does like myself
But unfortunately we live in a world where?
The people with all the money which is the small percentage
Make all the rules and make all the regulations, but I see blockchain
Fundamentally breaking that down and putting the power in the hands of the common person
Um also comes great responsibility and you touched on it seph. I think when you said regulation
I'm i'm going to be honest i'm a bit of a fan of
Regulation to a degree but that regulation being more consumer what I call consumer protection
Because I think if we can crack that nut
With using blockchain and crypto, then I think we will get the adoption
That we all truly want to see and there was a big announcement today with um
Full disclosure i'm invested with a company called materium
Um, they've launched their rwa's
And maybe that is a road map
To look at what they've done with our WAs and the legal agreements they've made in various countries
Because i'm sure you would all agree if you're
On the blockchain to sell or you're fractionalizing it or you're fractionalizing a gold bar
I'm pretty certain that you would definitely want some kind of protection
Um, whereas at the moment you don't and with materium they've done all that legal work
To make sure that protection is there. So I just wanted to pop up and say great space. Thank you
Just thought i'd share some thoughts
Definitely appreciate your insight. I appreciate that always
Not really a pleasure of marco, but like I guess oh
Don't be sour don't be sour dave
As my sons as my youngest son says dave, um, dad dad don't be bitter be better
Marco came to shoot tonight
Yeah, all all all the of all the chairs y'all could have chosen getting up on stage. You both chose the violence chair. Amazing
I'm here for it. Thank you guys
Just one one last little point on the on the education piece again to something that matthew said
I um, i've just come up a long call with um, my second favorite wooden top
And uh, I was just sharing with him just a little exercise that i've done recently something that i'm i'm building
I said to you you wouldn't believe it. I've just spoken just just in in passing to 30 people
Not crypto heads like you dave or ug crypto in particular
Uh, just normies who um have watched the netflix. Yes
They know they know block. They know bitcoin. They know bitcoin. They know a bit about nfts
Um, you know, they think of nfts as scams, of course
They don't think of um bitcoin as a scam but crypto it's funny
They don't they don't link bitcoin and crypto is the same thing
But basically, you know, the sentiment is very very low
And I said I I said to them look this is what i'm building
Um, you know, it's going to cost you about a thousand dollars
Uh, do you want to come in and these 30 people at a drop of a hat?
And I thought crikey this is this is actually
Um apart from a being cool
Um, but actually I was thinking maybe the sentiment is changing and and I think it is is one
But secondly as the person highlighted to me on the call
Well, maybe they did that marko because they trusted you they believed in you
They know you and they know your background
And I hadn't thought of that but this then leads to my point because this isn't about marko
What it's about is marko as an education list. So my point is the more
Markos that arise the matthews the daves the knowers that talk about this
in a informed educational way
Then that because i've always argued the cream always rises to the top
Not not that i'm saying i'm the cream
But my point is more and more people will come into the space and yes raucous. I see you laughing
well, uh marko just to uh
Kind of defend their sentiment. They're
For the most part right? I mean there's that there's the outliers, right? There's always the outliers
Those are the ones you kind of kind of pay attention to right and uh and hang around
Hang around these spaces, you know, here's some some sentiments look look for what you
You know see as an expert me. Maybe maybe not wolf right now. I'm just playing
But I wanted to touch up on something because I I was just uh, everybody's shooting today. Oh, okay. Let's go. Okay
listen, this is um, this is um
some epic news because this is
We kind of put ourselves in this trouble, right talk about us americans here
Um, or really kind of just human nature. So if you guys remember
2023 was a big year for ups
Huge strike, right affected my my shipments and amazon bastards. No, i'm just kidding. Um
But they went through a huge strike and um, what did they expect to happen?
Right. What did these employees right who were and I had to look this up just to make sure
Had an average annual pay of 95 000 right?
Well above median, you know, depending on the area, of course. Yeah, new york city. That's nothing. That's like minimum wage
But for the most part everywhere else in the u.s
Except for new york city la and and a couple other off off cities, right outliers
Then again, they're also their their pay was adjusted up there
But either way that that you know, it's it's it's a decent wage for if any anybody could say it's a decent wage
For the type of work they do because they just deliver packages, but it's okay
Um, so they went in the strike and now the average base pay
On the end of the five-year contract it's 170 000 right and here goes now mind you there's a lot of other things in factor
But this is uh, this is pretty disheartening is that those same people that were fighting for this?
Are now being cut twelve thousand jobs are going to be cut by the ceo
So what did they expect was going to happen, right?
They they think this unlimited money printer is going to bail them out and oh my gosh
I'm so entitled so much more and now they're going to be in the unemployment line
Or maybe go to fedex. I don't know. But yeah, look at look at what's happening here
So i'm just gonna i just gotta kind of say that out and by the way the is it um, the kobessi letter
Right kobessi letter. I i'll put them up top there. It's it's a phenomenal resource on
Kind of macro style, you know, they do break a lot of a lot of news that kind of deal they they've been
This group was one of the first to report
On the the spb stuff and and you know things didn't add up right way before anything ever happened
So yeah kind of a cool group i'll put the i'll put this news up there
I know it's a little bit outside of crypto, but just giving you what we're fighting against here because these are
The us does drive a lot of liquidity in crypto. So and we're currently collapsing. So yeah, this is great. This is fantastic guys
Wait, you mean we're not in a bull run what we are. Oh, I mean, oh, sorry. He kind of scared me
That's uh, that's up to speculation, right? I mean
What what defines a bull run? I mean we're on the fifth
We're we're about to close now, mind you we still got quite a bit of time
Quite a bit of time before the candle closes, but we're on our fifth
Uh green monthly candle on bitcoin, right? Is that is that that's even about right fifth fifth green punch candle
Yeah, so so what is what defines a bull run, sir?
Please tell oh, wait a minute wall street. Hey, we got some wall street guys. Talk to me. Talk to me. Uh ex-financial advisors and
And still financial advisors trader. You gotta get it right guys. It's trader not advisor or broker
And full disclaimer my series seven has expired years now. No more continuing education credit just for everybody. No
Uh, so therefore nothing I give this financial advice. Thank you very much
I mean when you think about we're on yeah green candles good, but uh, I guess for me
It's it's not just what the stock market is doing, right?
It gets economic growth at the end of the day too
Everything that you were talking about at the beginning of this conversation jay is is really where?
Uh, I at least I consider and I would say probably by definition
At least to start you got to be looking at like three months of sustained like to me like double digit growth to be able to
Say hey, we're really in a bull run. It's not just oh, we're in a bitcoin bull run, right?
Like I don't know. I don't think that we're there yet
I think everybody and from week to week it changes in in this crypto arena like I hear every day
It's a oh it's a bull market and then the next day it's oh it's a bear market like come on like
Up and down days are up and down days. Like that's what they are
I think people just a lot of times they don't know how to either like trade volatility how to really interpret some of these markets
It's uh, it because you want to know something that i've learned out here in in in these crypto streets is
A lot of people this is their first exposure ever
trading any sort of financial instrument, um period
And when that happens, right?
Allow the emotion to get involved in in their trading or in their investment decisions and if you've been trading for long enough
You know that there is zero place for emotion when it comes to this game
Zero you check your emotion at the door and that is how you make your decisions if you take your emotions into
Anything when it comes to especially crypto nft is a whole other game. Don't even get me started on pictures of
Monkeys and and fish and lions like that's that's another one shout out to the lazy lions in the acquisition by the way
Yeah, like it's the emotion is uh
Leave it leave it at the door. So there there's your advice non-financial. So so wait a minute
Did you just pump your bag again day he's trying to what the fuck marko
Think I think he also I think he also like tried to give himself an alibi by saying well
I'm trained to give financial advice, but this ain't that don't worry about it. Remember remember, too
That um gary ginsler's um anon account is down below. So be careful, sir. Be careful. Just saying
Speaking of gary ginsler's anon account. We've we've got david on the stage
Welcome david. What is uh, sorry, I've got things short here guys, but uh, yeah, david
What are your thoughts on the main topic? FOMC meeting?
What's what do you think about all this, man?
Should we care about what the fomc says or jerome powell? Can you guys hear me? All right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's my
What's up, baby i'm just driving so this is my first time spacing and driving
I'm taking it easy the road's a little wet a little slippery, but we'll get home safe. I think uh,
you know, I love dave and he's uh a genius of wisdom, but i'm gonna have to disagree with him on you know,
I think you don't need a productive bull run in a sense of you know,
GDP growth going up to have an a bull run in asset prices and that's one of the one of the
symptoms of the fiat sickness, you know, like uh, you have this artificial liquidity just pumped into the market and
asset prices can just skyrocket without any real, uh,
implication for main street and for the guy on this, you know, like you have layoffs and and pumps at the same time
like how does that make sense, you know, so
That's why I think to the main topic
We should definitely care about interest rates and macro climates because at the end of the day like we all think we're genius
analyzing trends and narratives and
deepen and rwa and this is why the ordinals going up, but the main contributor to our
Gains or losses is the fed and the amount of liquidity dollar liquidity in the market. So
Uh, i'm watching it maybe not too closely. I think
On that we all know what's going to happen that you know
All usb trains to zero and
Over the short run. I hope we get a
Uh to the positive start on inflation and then we can start seeing some cuts. I need my bags to pump. I need my bags to pump
This this just in wolf web 3 needs a new co-host for the real world asset space on thursday morning
Because david just got cut what happened? I thought you were supposed to be my backup day
David's getting stopped by the cops right now because he was on the phone
That's what's happening. I did that or he spaced himself into a tree. Be be careful on them streets
Be careful on those slick roads
I hear there's blood in them streets
They've all come and co-host and i'll uh, i'll steal my investment. Um, like you feel lazy lions or just take a
You come through you come through
Oh boy, when we have a field day with that. Let's go. Yeah come to mark. Let's go
Man, let's go. So on that note really quickly. Hey, let me let me let me do let me do a quick reset
Just really really quick. Hey, if you guys are just the audience if you're just tuning in and you're listening, you know
What the hell did I walk into you walked into?
Movie media is tuesday morning spaces with uh hosted or co-hosted by blocks media group. That is j crypto and myself
And we have some phenomenal speakers on stage who have I mean they've shared alpha and had fun doing it
That's the thing if we're not having fun as the number one thing then what the hell are we doing in life? I'm serious
Keep your eyes on the prize, right? So so having fun while dropping alpha
And uh, and then also, you know giving giving these little these little pearls of wisdom
They're there if you if you look for them if you listen for them
And so one way for you to make sure that you understand the signal to noise on in spaces like this
Is to follow everyone on stage you heard from david you heard from marco matthew dave on the beyond the wolf web3 account noah
og, right, uh help to help to to run this right movie media main account, of course j crypto myself
You know humbly requests you follow us also
Just to to make sure that you're you're not missing
Any of those those little pearls or nuggets when we're not on stage and when we're trying to clarify it like oh, yeah
I mean I said that we're having fun, but you know, here's here's a more tactical overview of what I meant
That all happens on our timeline. So follow everyone on stage
Make sure you retweet the room
Make sure you make a comment down below
Make sure you dm this to somebody because we had a little bit of time left up on the space
And so we have time for maybe you or somebody, you know to jump on stage and also join the fun
Well, you know maybe drop some alphabets you but but but join us, please do join us and uh, yeah
Let's get let's get back into it here
Yeah, let's go. Awesome. Awesome. And wolf just real quick
So I just had a make sure my numbers were kind of correct
Because you mentioned, you know looking at at bitcoin as just a whole but what about
The total market caps are because we're up triple digits from
You know january of last year till now. So so would that indicate a bull run? I'm just trying to get
Trying to get something out of here. I I let's let let me just yeah, let's verify that
What do we got because listen if we listen to just
These random influencers they would say that it is so so are they right or or are intuitions wrong
Yeah, I think like when I think of maybe this is just like the like the the the the trader or maybe like the
The the the leftover of uh of the equity markets and and being a trader
But like I said, like I think when you look at like being in a in a quote bull run
Right. It has to come with economic growth now
For me like if you look at obviously the stock market kind of the same
It's kind of in the same position
We're hitting all like all these stocks are hitting all-time highs
You have companies that are now crossing the trillion dollar mark. So you would think like yeah, like oh we should be
But I don't know. Let me I'll turn it back to you. Jake. Does it feel like we are in a bull run right now
I mean somebody's spending money
Somebody's spending money and it's coming from somewhere. I mean if we just look at what happened when was it last friday, right?
I think it was a total of a trillion dollars of h100 orders to nvidia, right?
Is it that I get my math right or maybe it's a hundred billion one of those two
Somebody's spending money somewhere dude. I mean it it's it's you know, it's I
Whether it be, you know, it's it's and I don't think that's in the real estate there
But you know in at least in the institutional side there's there's this money being given from somewhere, right?
I mean, I I don't know dude. I mean I my sentiment
What i've seen right all the all the statistical accounts that I follow
And these are the accounts that throw up stats from you know
The either the census bureau or you know, whatever, you know cdc or anywhere that you can get stats from
That a government would want to hide it. They can't they don't hide, you know, they're just out in the open saying hey
You are absolutely wrecked
And there's nothing you can do about it. But you know what that's okay because we're gonna still pump the market
I I don't you know, I I have no
My intuitions are all screwy, dude. My haywire is going all over the place. Don't know what to think
if you remember in the movie which I guess
It was like this a little bit because they had to get the sentiment somewhere
But you remember the big short right how you know, michael burry's making some crazy moves now
But if you look at it from back then he was shorting the market, you know in 2000 early 2007
Or 2006 way before anybody had anything, you know
Any inclination of what was going on?
Am I good to think this way? I mean everything points the other direction, but what what is going to happen?
Epic pressure that's happening this just kind of kind of ball of fire. That's just you know, it's it's it's infusing
Everything everywhere, you know, what when is it going to explode? There's no easing this at all. There's zero easing this
They they they say oh we're gonna ease our way through all this and you know fluid is water dude. It's it's not
it's a tidal wave man, I mean
anyone with any kind of you know sense of direction can see that this is
Nasty, right? This is super nasty. What they're doing to us is is really screwing us big time now
Unfortunately, it's run by human beings and human beings have agendas. Like I said last week, right human
Oh, no week four human beings have agendas now that agenda. Unfortunately is administrative agendas, right?
Where one guy says hey, i'm gonna you know
Finagle the numbers and let the next guy worry about it. That's freaking crazy, dude
I you know to and to answer your question a little complex for me because
Right when we we hit the new year in 23 times to have my crypto street squads
Or go in there check my pit message. Anyways, um, I did see a turn and um
And it just you know, it did exceed my expectations, right? It did 100 exceeded, you know
I I thought somewhere in the line of 60 percent is where we were going to kind of tip out which we kind of did
But then we just ran right past my projections, dude
It was it was absolutely incredible at least in a market cap wise in crypto market cap wise in in
In the regular side right equities whatever whatever markets you're into
I mean that I I hadn't I I thought it was going to be like an inverse to us
But it's not it's not an inverse right because the big tech is holding up
That entire you know that spectrum right is one massive
You know top seven that everyone else is just you know collapsing while the top seven is saying
No, no, no, we'll give you a safety net
But you know, you guys will burn while we're while we're going up
So, you know, it's it's it's hit or miss with me, dude. I mean it's
Bull trends should be the term but not bull market right bull trend is my is my is is what I
Have been kind of consistently and that's fair
And that's fair and here we were to go
Let's say like textbook grow right like if I was to look this up, right? What are the the key characteristics?
You look at number one it says sustained increase in prices right prices of any security or asset that are
Consistently rising over a period and we obviously know how volatile crypto is
The second one is positive investor sentiment, right?
And testers got to feel confident about the market's future leading to more buying and less selling
economic growth often coincides with periods of economic prosperity or recovery where corporate earnings are strong too
So we got to check in that one and then the last two is increased trading volumes, right?
So more investors participating in the market leading to higher trading volumes. So
For me the jury's still out on that because i'm seeing higher trading volumes in a lot of different things
But i'm seeing like it's jumping from one thing to the next right? It's not like consistently saying increased volumes
And then it's just optimism and then our good old friend speculation
That to me is the thing that drives everything
It's the I guess the quote what they define as the general mood in the market is obviously optimistic
And I think people are just so easily swayed in crypto and maybe i'm just naturally skeptical because when you pay your tuition in crypto
Like in the beginning when you first get in here
You just become so weary and so sketchy and so skeptical of everything and everyone
I can't afford to be any other way, you know, so for me
It's i'll i'll call it a bull run when I feel it's a bull run
And there's and the guys are coming back out with all those scammers that were trying to rob me and get my c phrase on day
One when I see them back in my dms and back in all this other stuff
That's when I know the money's here because that's that's my indicator right there
Got some hands up now and I guess you don't don't do that. Just jump in a real quick
Seth says he'll send you a dm about that. Maybe maybe that'll change it
Yeah, that's a that's a that's a start that's a really sad indicator dave
That's really sad, but i'll um i'm i'm gonna break down. Um dave's
Analysis there just in layman's speak because that was a lot of gobbledygook my friend
So this is the one that like a torch marker is gonna get torched
This is the way that I look at it
But uh, i'll put it in more layman terms dave because you're far more clever than I am
So I look at it as uh, and to your points the majority of investors are buying. I don't see that currently
The demand outweighs supply again. I don't see that currently happening
And market confidence is at high and prices are rising and again, I don't see that happening
I see it in to your point dave in spikes. So I look at it as this is an uptick
This is not a bull run. This is just an uptick some segments are doing well and some are not doing so well
But until you know for me as per the criteria i've just um
And I think we're still in a place in the moment where a lot of assets across the board is interesting jay
You mentioned the uh, the top seven agree with you there
But if you look at a lot of the the stocks on the traditional markets in the crypto markets, they're still at an overvalued
Um place in my humble opinion and they're still they still need to come down
So whilst we're all on this uptick i'm waiting for that time and i'm you know
My my thesis what we as a funder working towards we we're seeing sort of may of this year
When debt needs to be repaid and when I say debt, I mean consumer debt
Needs to be repaid. That's when we might see a bit of a a dime tick. Shall we say?
Um, i'm not going to be doom mongering but somewhere along the line and i've always argued this
You know the piper comes a calling and all the debt we've built up over the years certainly since covid
And I think you guys in america and I feel for you guys in america
Was it just this week you announced the highest ever level of debt? What was it? 34 trillion or something?
That's got to be paid somewhere along the line
That's got to be paid and that has an impact across all the markets
Now, of course, you may just print more money
Uh, but hey ho and then um just on the regulation piece
Again, I feel for you my american friends and yes, dave i'll include you in that for god's sake
Um, you know you may you may build in this regulation framework
But hey, I guess what you guys will do is what you've always done. You'll just go and trade elsewhere
Won't you you'll come to dubai or you'll go to europe or you'll go to singapore and you'll probably just do your trading there
I just think this is something
however governments want to regulate it the cat is out of the bag and
They can put stop gaps in but they're never going to stop it
That's what i'm bullish on. There's your bull run
You guys hear this you guys hear the crows and the seagulls around uh mark. Oh what it seemed to be carcass
That's going to be laying here thinking the u.s. Is going to pay back 34 trillion
Dollars mark are you by a lighthouse, sir? It sounds like uh, you're you're in a nice place right now
Yeah, I live I live um on a golf course which is near the
I like I like that you're giving a little bit of uh sanity because i'm like always
Permal bullish I think the bull market. I like to you know, there's an early stage bull and late stage bull
I think we're in the early stage pool. I mean
If we're not in a bull market, we're in a bear market and you know the kind of returns
We've seen across the board s and p making all-time high that just suggests that we're not in a bear market
But we're not in the you know, the the
You know soldier boy and dj colored pumping jpeg stage of the bull market yet. We're not in the taxi driver
Shilling you solana stage of the bull market yet
So there is a lot of you know, and you're seeing
Was also in google search volumes like we're not we're not at those highs
We're not at we're not at peak euphoria at peak mania
And this is I think the sweet spot to be active to be you know
Alert to be with your eyes open for opportunity because the the sentiment is there. It's positive
It's picking up, but we're not frothing
I mean we frotted a little bit and then we corrected and now we're bouncing out and we'll have a few more of those but
You know once we break all-time high on bitcoin then it's really going to be silly season. I mean, uh, I read an article today about
There's 1.9 million americans
crypto investors that are in swing states that could sway the
Election in 2024 and that didn't exist four years ago
So just imagine how much the you know, the next 12 to 18 months is going to add to this
Uh, I would say grouping, you know social political cohort. So i'm super excited for late stage bull run
Okay, sorry dave it sounds like yeah, it sounds like you're rugging a little bit there but
I can't wait to hear the the rest of that. Sorry matthew. Go ahead. It's just I was thinking that
One of the things that's always kind of a challenge is that you really only recognize it's a bull run until after you've missed it
Which is always kind of a challenge, right? You know, you're evaluating some of these metrics and you're always trying to
See if the market as a forward thinking ecosystem
What it's going to do next and try to anticipate where you are in that pendulum swing
You know, we think the pendulum moves back and forth between bull and bear markets
And it becomes very challenging one metric that I did find the other day kind of stumbled upon by myself was
I took a look at the 100th ranked cryptocurrency
In which was called coven hood at the end of 2017 december 2017. It had a value of like 183 or 200 million dollars
That same 100 rank in 2024. It's a totally different token, but it's like 600 million dollars
So over the course of six or seven years you've seen a 3x
Of the of the market cap value of companies in the top 100
So from a maturation perspective maturation, gosh, I sound like i'm british from a mature perspective or I guess
Maybe maturation is the right word maturation perspective crypto is doing an incredible job bringing in new
Projects adding value to those projects and adding monetary like like pieces to them
So I think that that's a really interesting kind of zoom out perspective and the final thing i'll mention here about michael burry
Michael burry and ray dallio are basically like broken clocks. They're right twice a day
These people are doom and gloom investors who are wrong
98 of the time and the 2 of the time they're right they're remembered and movies get made about them
And i'm not saying that they don't deserve the riches or they don't deserve the the praise
But to admire them or to think of them as really strong or good investors is kind of an anathema in a way
There's a new book called the fund which uh as a title or I guess the headline is this is a book that ray dallio
Does not want you to read?
Uh just really talks about him as an investor and and just a very interesting egocentric sort of manic person
Who's who's completely self-absorbed and all they do is just doom and gloom embed against the market and as soon enough they'll be right
But he gets uh, like demolished in his early career for being wrong over and over and over again
And it's only in the few times that you're right that you're able to make incredible incredible wealth
So I just I just think it's interesting that we had kind of admire these people or put them on a pedestal and we say
Oh, man, michael burry, you know, he he did this amazing thing or he's well known for this kind of thing
It's like dude the guy bets against the market every day and he's wrong almost every day
So just an interesting like thing about people we admire in the space you want to know who someone no for sure
Don't never meet your heroes. You know someone who is not wrong
Uh nancy pelosi just saying it's all right. My love say it sure ginsler. I see you down there. There you go, boy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes after the fact you have a public record now so we um
Geez, uh, so so dave mentioned earlier, right?
The markets can remain irrational for longer than you can stay solvent and and uh on this topic of like right now
Right now whether or not there is a bull run
And whether or not these the capital is flowing in the right direction
It's weird because like jay was saying there are a lot of a lot of contradicting indicators and so
Uh, so while there's it looks like there's then there's a pumped up market. Um, we also also
Agreed right. It's a public record, right?
No, and nobody here I think disagrees with the fact
That there are more us dollars in existence than ever before and that happened during the same time frame
Right at the to taper off the last bull run and then moving into the most recent bear market of of crypto
That has to have a pretty direct effect. Also, and i'm not sure if anybody here has any models that would help
Explain the calculus there of how you have a an ever-growing and debased fiat denomination
You know for the value all these cryptocurrencies with tons of money printing
Um, but it seems to me like yeah, if it looks like they're they're large buys in in weird sectors that you don't expect
I think it's because the the value of money is so much lower than we
That we're consciously aware of we keep thinking of a dollar as being the same as it was three years ago
Um over the last four years, I mean we've nearly seen our dollar chopped in half nearly not quite
But when it comes to cpi in particular a meaningful measure that that retail has to pay attention to when it comes to cpi
Even those numbers are fudged
But people actually spend right? Um, and when they when they when they're trying to fill the tank with their car
Or when they're trying to fill their fridge with with groceries
What they've seen is is that yeah over the last four years their buying power is is easily cut in half
Maybe worse maybe actually worse
And uh and the way that's been spun and framed by the administration, uh is my in my opinion
Nothing short of criminal because now we're talking about all these values as though they could be compared and they just can't
The unit of account is debased. So i'm wondering, you know, I see a simplicity group on stage, you know tokenomics experts
So so probably probably gonna lean on you a bit for intelligence here
But but i'm wondering, you know who who's thought through that as we talk about, you know, weird buys in certain areas
Well money was cheap to certain people but it was cheapest to people who ran the money printer
So i'm wondering if there's collusion to to pump up markets and give the appearance of prosperity
Right over here in our glorious united states glorious republic of the united states. Nothing is wrong. Don't don't look too close
Right. Definitely don't inspect the books
Um, so i'm kind of wondering um who here is factoring that in?
Um, I just want to chime in quickly. Thank you for having me on stage as well. A pleasure to be on stage as always
You just made there's a few things I wanted to touch on and some of the other speakers mentioned as well
In terms of some people see british signs some people see bearish markets and you like spoke a lot about the dollar
More dollars being in existence than ever
um sort of the whole money printing situation in america
value of money being lower than it was
And also, uh, sort of just a unit of account being debased when we talk about a bull market
Uh, or like when we look talk about value and bitcoin
uh two things to touch with regards to that, uh
In the past it would have been good to always look at the dollar, but I think we're approaching a time where
geopolitical tensions mean that the market's almost being split into two, uh, I think
uh, russia came out and said that they're going to their goal is to
Uh stop the dollar being the main currency in the east in 2024. That's their primary goal
We look at chinese tensions china's potentially going to invade taiwan
We like it's very hard to predict the geopolitical scene and it's practically impossible
We don't know if china won't invade taiwan for example
and with all of that it's
we don't know what's going to happen with currency and with uh
Crypto I guess demand in the east and in other regions of the world
Uh, I know china's playing with legalizing bitcoin again. They they legalize and criminalize it every
two months by the looks of things
It's very hard to say if we're in a bull or bear and I think we are in sort of a contradicting market where
there are signs of both because
Just geopolitically speaking. We're in a period of time where
No one knows if it's bearish or bullish. What's really going to happen?
And uh, yeah, that's sort of uh, what I would say on that I guess
Amazing and i'm curious also with so with the passage of the etf or the news of the passage of the etf
It it seems like in it practically it played out to be a sell the news event
right first the uh first the the sort of
The false start right of the scc account air quotes being hacked and and uh, and discussing it too early
It was a triggered sell-off event. It seemed like it was an obvious trigger to a sell-off event
And then the genuine announcement of the etf passage also triggered a a sell-off event
It seemed like plenty of people who who had their faith in these systems
Got shaken out immediately
And then we saw massive buys we saw an increase in the holdings of uh of the larger institutions that are entering game
Right blackrock and grayscale. They certainly didn't they didn't get rid of bitcoin during that during that that time
So i'm wondering if maybe there is a bit of collusion and coordination between maybe nation-state level actors
And the industries that they favor or you know, the way we say here is america and her interests, right?
But I wonder if there's if there's a private, uh public
Collusion there to to shake out more of retail right and to force people
Into the institutional rails and the institutional products
Uh, and and then have that be kind of dovetailed with the passage of cbdcs, right?
So lock down all the passages right lock down all the exits
And uh circle wagons around your nation right around your people
And force them into the financial instruments that allow the government to continue to print junk derivatives
And hold or hoard all the real value in in the hard assets, right like like bitcoin
Um, I mean it seems like this isn't far fetched, right?
I mean we definitely did see you know as a as a one page out of the the institutional playbook that that happened, right?
Does anyone see that from me with the etf?
I didn't see that directly, but I definitely sorry to jump in. I definitely think that is collusion
and one point I actually heard with regards to this and
Um, I was told by someone who's uh in the bitcoin mining space and i'd love to actually get some clarification if this is true
Uh, he said that normally there's huge, uh miner sell-offs in the bear market
He mentioned that didn't happen this time
And he said that companies like blackrock were actually paying miners to uh prevent them from losing funds
And the deal that they basically pulled off with miners was that they'll be able to buy any bitcoin
Mind at a discount from the miners in the future for a certain amount of time. I think they mentioned 20 years or something
I don't know if anyone's in the space or like connected with miners
But that's definitely a huge example of collusion if it is happening and I think um
At the end of the day these big organizations play games that most of us aren't savvy to I think they have so many resources that we
We we only see the face value of it and even at face value. There's a lot of collusion going on and institutions
messing with the markets if you
Please do I just want to circle back to the mining question afterwards
Oh, yeah, so I was actually just going to touch on the mining thing is um, if you want to talk to
Actual bitcoin miners. I actually have uh at 10 a.m. Pacific standard time this morning
We're going to be on with quantum expedition. So I highly recommend coming through
Um, we can ask them directly
Um, they're a mining operation that's out of texas. So yeah, I mean, I would love the answer to that as well
Let's chill the space chill the space danny chill the space wolf. Let's go know it baby. Yeah
And I can say without endorsing his guest
I can just say that I know some of the people in the advisors with quantum expedition and they're they're good people
As far as I can tell their team is quite solid. So i'd love to tune in as well
Um, we should get some on the institutional mining side gorilla pool over there as well, too, sir
Yeah, let the fireworks let the fireworks off
I love that. You know what? I would tell kurt. I mean she kurt has uh has some time wolf. Do you mind some drama buddy?
Right, yeah, well, you know the draws a straddle a crowd like a street fight, man
Why not let me let me let me jump back though a couple years in the bitcoin mining ecosystem
Um, I can't I can't disclose the uh, the person who I was working with but I was uh, but I was uh
I was tapped as a as a subcontractor to a consultant. Uh, that was that was in talks with exxon mobile
So institutions have been extremely interested in mining at scale for a number of years now
Especially in the energy sector, right?
But because they know that they've got all kinds of problems that that that that's something like a bitcoin mining operation helps to solve
And not only do they you know, it helps with bullish narratives regarding conservation
But then it also literally puts, you know money in their pockets. It puts it puts bitcoin in their balance sheets
So there's been an interest for longer than most people realize
Um with with institutions in getting involved in in bitcoin mining and prior to that
Um, can I just close the name?
But I was asked to come and consult a group
That was based here in the united states right in the state of wyoming very very crypto friendly state to do just what you said
Essentially an otc desk between miners who could show the provenance of their coin-based transactions on freshly mined coins
So they would be um, you know ostensibly they'd be mined by american companies and then sold to american investors
As you said with uh with some very specific price agreements in place
So they had they knew they had consistent, you know, uh, they had consistent order flow from
From the mining operations without showing on chain that they were the weak hands, right?
They uh, so it was this is this is also something that's been around as long as institutional mining
Has been if you have a hanger full of computers that are crunching numbers
There's a number, you know, there's a handful of ways that you can monetize that but for bitcoin mining in particular
You know, you're locked in you don't have the general purpose compute power like j was saying before of say a bunch of
Ai grade, you know next generation gpu's that can crunch something else
With bitcoin mining in particular you're totally locked into that ecosystem. Those machines will only ever do
Sha 256 guesses right really fast sha 256 guesses
So yeah, if you can get if you can get a sort of an anchor client, right that comes in and will buy
Uh a minimum amount of what you've mined
It's good business, right? I mean anything else that you do at scale
It's good business to have an anchor client that will it will buy at scale. Anyway, um, but so just to validate what you said
Yes, I can say firsthand over the last several years. That is a trend it really happens
Just one quick follow-up from what simplicity said
You know blackrock owns part of marathon and part of riot and they own like 200 million dollars worth of both these companies
And so it is completely plausible and very likely that there's collusion and vertical integration into their into their business model
That is, you know, somehow trying to take over this this sort of bitcoin mining piece or just own a large part of it
Hey boys, I got a jump but this was super fun. I really really appreciate the invite jay set like for real
This was absolutely incredible. I loved every single minute of the conversation that we had here
You guys are held it though. Everybody if y'all aren't following mobi media and these dudes up here
I don't know what the hell you're doing. But um, thank you guys truly
I I really really appreciated it and uh, i'm looking forward to coming back. Hopefully if y'all have me back, this was amazing
Yeah, no for sure. And I think actually jay we were talking about tapering off today's show
It's a it's a pretty tidy end to the show. Actually, we may be able to just raid the wolf space
I think you're starting in four minutes. Yeah
Let's fucking go. Okay, let's raid the woods raid the wolf space. Let's go
So we're gonna what we need to do then to taper that off is get you to start the space
We'll go ahead and put that in the nest here
Before we fully shut things down give everybody an opportunity to just click a simple link and then know where they're supposed to be headed
Um, but uh, but yeah, well, well that that's let's make it happen man today
Beautiful beautiful partnership sending it to you right now. I appreciate you guys
Yeah, yeah, buddy. So jay. Do we have any last questions?
I guess to the to the to the panel any last thoughts about the fomc?
I mean we've we've gone to a lot of places l2s scaling
Potential collusion between nation states and institutions. We've gone to some really fun places today any any
But any any closing thoughts on the fomc specifically there's your own power control we do here or not. What's what's the deal?
I guess silence is golden. I can see he does not so
Yeah, jay. We're kind of waiting for the
Link to come through on wolf and the war raid
But yeah, if nobody has any of the thoughts on on the fomc specifically
Yeah, any any final thoughts on just the markets in general if not the fomc and their meetings coming up
I guess i'll drop in one line. Don't think of the markets as bullish or bearish. Don't get stuck in your bias
Vigilant and be willing to change your bias. Uh, we can't predict the markets. It's not worth sticking to a bias
Especially when it's your own money involved
And I would say you don't have to make it back the way you lost it
I really appreciate jay asking me to come up and and really enjoyed the conversation y'all so I appreciate this
Look forward to the next time for sure
Awesome and definitely appreciate you being here with us
Do we have a and and and dude?
Matthew you're yeah hyperactive on a couple of the spaces. We need to have you regularly every single week
You know this standing invite to come and and join us every every tuesday other than I guess when we're doing the gamefi stuff
That's that's a little bit
That's a little specialized, but you know, otherwise absolutely love the panel
Thank you so much for bringing in the the alpha you did the the calm right the the advice simplicity group
Thank you so much, especially for urging people to uh, be a little more moderate right in their emotional state
And uh, just calm down a little bit get rid of the bias
Cj, you're already looking that up. Is that
Is that kind of where you're at right now or if anybody else has it
The space what we need to do
Okay, so nice. All right. Hey audience, please do follow the link up above
Uh for the wolf web 3 space. Thanks so much for joining us for another
Moby media tuesday morning space hosted by j crypto host of the crypto street squad and myself
uh co-partners in the blocks media group consultancy
We have such a good time holding the spaces and you're the reason that we do them really uh absolute blast
We'll see you next week on tuesday morning 8 am est 3 pm utc for those who are across the pond
And we do this every single tuesday and have a blast doing it. Thank you to movie media. Thank you to noah
Thank you to marco matthew
David everybody who came up on stage and just dropped wisdom
Um, we couldn't do without you and we love every minute of these spaces with you. So thank you for that
Glenn I think with that, uh, we'll just urge people to go over to the web 3 wolf web 3 spaces
And we're going to call it a day till next tuesday. Oh, thanks guys. Let's go. Oh, I just got back when we're leaving
Oh, man. Well listen, he wanted to
Also, thank every one of you for listening to it every week and um those replay listeners as well
Sorry, you couldn't make it live but glad you got some epic content
Just real quick too. I did put another account up above. I don't know if it says he touched up on that but
It is uh, again another macro view kind of deal. Um, so the kabashi letter, uh, if that's how you say kobashi kobashi
Whatever. Um, yeah, that one is more
generalized standard market
Uh kind of viewpoint and then glass node
The stuff that they post is is pretty invaluable. I mean it's it's you know, obviously bitcoin related or or crypto related
But again more macro wallet analysis tracker, but but yeah, this is uh, this is fantastic
But anyways, definitely want to thank everybody for tuning in. Um, glenn noah. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks again guys