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FOMO HOUR: Crypto Weekend Rally Amidst DAT Crisis
Recorded: Sept. 29, 2025 Duration: 1:02:01Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the resurgence of major cryptocurrencies, the implications of Vanguard's potential crypto ETF access, and the explosive growth of new tokens like XPL and Aster. The conversation also touched on the evolving landscape of NFTs, with Hyperliquid's Genesis NFT making waves in the market.
Full Transcription
Thank you. GM, GM, everyone.
We're going to start the show here in just a few minutes.
I want to give a few shout-outs to our listeners who joined early.
Who have we got?
Mike S, GM, Harry Krishna, GM, Easy McNutt, The Grifters.
Great to see you, GM, GM.
Who else have we got?
Pradeep, Squilliam, Diggy, Rock, GM, GM, Spacebar, Ari,ri brudas the homies are in the chat all right
charlie whenever you're ready let's kick it Thank you. GM everyone and welcome to another episode of FOMO Hour.
Today is Monday, September 29th, 2025.
Folks, FOMO hour is so back.
I'm back as well.
Crypto majors, looks like they are also back.
Soaring here this morning.
You love to see it.
Last week was a little rough, but we're agreeing to start this week.
And today we're asking, is the worst behind us?
We're going to break it all down on today's show.
No Faroak or Mando, Mando, Mando, we will see.
Faroak is off in Korea for Korea Blockchain Week.
But we've got Logan in the house, rocking the cubbies hat.
Logan, GM, how you doing?
Hey, good morning, Tyler.
I'm doing well.
You picked a good week to check out.
Maybe not so good for your wallet, perhaps.
But in terms of paying attention,
you could have done a whole lot worse.
So it felt like a slower week,
obviously prices dragging down, not so fun,
but glad to be back and a little upswing here as well.
Yeah, it seemed like that.
There was a few big pieces of news,
but it didn't seem like it was those days
where it was just like bang, bang, bang,
10 big headlines per day pouring in.
We did have a, the XPL launch was a pretty big one.
From a trading perspective with that and Apex was probably two of the big ones.
We'll get into it later in the show, but yeah,
it was a decent week to be away.
I feel like that's kind of what happens.
These huge conference weeks.
And it seemed like a lot of big players were out at last week's event and
perhaps this week's event as well.
We will certainly see.
It was out in San Francisco and Napa Valley, Sonoma for wine country.
It was quite a nice week off.
It got to be in Waymo's for the first time.
And quick tangent, I don't know if you've ridden in a Waymo.
I have not, no.
Or a robotically driven car.
Man, it is a much, much better experience.
We were addicted to the Waymos over Ubers by the time we had left San Francisco.
You can do whatever you want in the car.
You can blast your music.
You don't have to worry about conversation.
You don't have to worry about the quality of the driver.
There's a lot of perks.
So on big Waymo stand, also Tesla. I mean, Tesla
FSD is
also the other
effectively a Waymo competitor.
So even more bullish on Tesla.
There's no tipping or anything either, right?
Is that another small positive?
They were
slightly more expensive than Uber's though,
which surprised me. I thought they would be
undercutting them.
So Uber still has that going for it.
And they weren't always super available, and they're definitely still in test mode.
But it was a fun little twist being out in San Francisco.
Wine Country, wise men, it's a promontory.
I definitely encourage any wine aficionados out there.
It is one of the best wineries I've ever visited.
So check that out if you are looking for a cool spot in Napa.
And yeah, back to the desk.
So what are we talking about on today's show?
It's not just going to be wine and Waymo talk.
We're going to talk about markets, gold spiking to all-time highs.
Crypto was very red last week, but flipping green here this week.
We're going to talk SECs coming after the DATS.
Vanguard eyeing crypto access.
Tether eyeing a massive valuation.
Aster flipping Tether in revenue.
Wow.
CZ leaning in even more meme coins.
Is it over? Volumes fell. 50%, maybe more.
Is it over?
Volumes fell 50%, maybe more.
Last week, we had these hyper NFTs trading at $60,000 every other minute.
At this point right now, we have these NFT strategies taking off as well.
So a whole lot to get into on today's show.
So with that, let's just get into it.
So I'll fire up the screen share for those who are in the stream.
We're streaming live
on X as well as Kik, folks. So make sure to join us there if you haven't already. Let's take a
look at the board. Get into a quick market report here. Bitcoin up 3.5%, 113.4. ETH up 4%,
up 3.5%, 113.4. ETH up 4%, 4165. Solana up 4% back at 210 or so. This comes as I think stocks
are green again today. Yeah, it was NASDAQ's up a percent. I saw NVIDIA and Tesla were up nicely
here this morning as well. Gold hitting another new all-time high, 38.50.
This is just not slowing down.
Gold is up 45% year-to-date now, which seems like an insane-
Do you have gold exposure, Tyler?
I don't.
Peter was trying to convince me to get in, and I've just been dragging my feet.
And it's tough.
I mean, it is massively outperforming Bitcoin on the year, right?
You want to hear my boomer thing?
I'm not even sure the best way to get exposure to gold.
You know what I mean?
I don't know what that is.
I would probably buy one of the gold-related tokens on Hype or something
if I was really going to do it
at this point. But yeah, I'm underexposed, certainly. But gold is ripping, continuing
to outperform pretty broadly. Last week, the ETFs were just terrible. I don't know if folks saw this.
I was catching up this morning. I believe this was the single worst week for the ETH ETFs in their history.
It was down like $800 million in outflows. Bitcoin ETFs saw about $900 million in outflows.
So we'll see if that does turn around this week. And then Fear and Greed. Fear and greed at 39. And that does seem to match the timeline.
I feel like the ANSUM 90K before 120K, those calls are getting louder.
And certainly Bitcoin going down to 108 last week didn't help that cause.
What a wild, wild dip.
We were just kind of cruising along last week.
I was in San Francisco out in Napa looking at the charts.
Everything's fine.
And then what was it? Was it Tuesday, Wednesday? So this would have been like Wednesday into
Thursday. Yeah, things just start going south. Go from 113.8 to 111.8 to 108.5. Logan, what were
you thinking? What was going to go into your mind as we were seeing that crash is too strong of a word, but pretty strong dip?
Yeah.
You know, not thinking too much, not being too frightened off it.
We, what, ranged, or at least what feels like ranged, for quite some time now.
It felt like, from my perspective, you know, covering stuff last week, it felt like just kind of an apathetic stage in sell-off.
You know what I mean?
At least that purchasing is down overall.
The ETF outflows, as you mentioned, those catalysts are like the strong, energetic,
let's get excited about market stuff.
It just wasn't there, like not in headlines, not in data.
And so it just really, from my perspective, Tyler,
it was, it felt like apathy across the timeline and the price reflected it. So I wasn't thinking
too much either way. Things just kind of matched in me, as you mentioned, with the fear and greed,
it sort of just matched what my timeline was telling me as well. So I don't know. I mean,
this is a nice little bounce back. We're at a kind of an interesting period of time where, you know, you have the rate stuff that just happened.
You have Trump tweeting about what new tariffs last week that happened, I think, on Thursday as well.
Just a little bit of uncertainty as to what exactly might happen next.
as to what exactly might happen next.
And I think if you take a look and read through some of the articles
and the analysts that have spoken to folks, my colleagues at Decrypt,
I think it's just that level of uncertainty, or less certainty, I should say,
than there was or what felt like there was here recently.
That's kind of keeping things, I don't know,
not from ranging up or down in either direction.
I do see that narrative, and that is absolutely out there.
But it also feels like, are we just trying to make excuse for a scam sell-off at the
end of September before October begins?
And we are actively ripping here, folks.
I don't know if you're looking at this.
Bitcoin 113.750 effectively erasing the four-day dip.
We are back to last Wednesday's levels here,
live on the show here this morning.
Up, so now green on the week, actually,
and then still up 5% on the month.
So zoomed out, it's really, it's not that bad.
It's going to break the red September curse thing, right?
Or maybe not break it, but certainly buck the trend.
Yeah.
I mean, what was giving me the most concern a week ago was everyone was bullposting how green September was.
It was like, guys, we have eight days left in this month.
Let's not start coloring in the chart patterns just yet.
And then, of course, we had the sell-off.
But now, yeah.
So it looks like it will likely be a green month here headed into October, which is historically one of our stronger months.
So nice little momentum.
Have to be happy about that.
We'll talk about the DAT story because I think that is one of the most
important of the week, likely drove the sell-off a bit.
I think the most important story that folks aren't talking about enough is this China gold play.
So I saw this Bloomberg report.
This was almost a week ago last Tuesday.
China makes power play for global gold.
I has control over foreign reserves to challenge the dollar dominance.
So China has clearly been leaning into gold.
We were just looking at the charts up 45 year to date now they're trying to make a more explicit
push uh to challenge the dollar with gold i feel like the obvious counter for the us
is to to go digital gold and just continue leaning further into crypto.
And we know that stablecoins help benefit
the dollar
with how they're buying treasuries.
The US
has the infrastructure
now being put in place
to have the guardrails for how
we would potentially hold and operate
a strategic reserve.
I feel like the Bitcoin reserve is coming.
And I mean, when will we actually buy and go beyond just Delta neutral?
I'm curious if you have a read on that, Logan.
You know, I don't have a great read or any like inside scoop type stuff to be able to,
you know, say one way or another there.
But I'm with you as far as the narrative goes here.
China providing us an opportunity,
or I should say Trump and his administration,
an opportunity to further lean in and say,
hey, this is why it's good, right?
I think it's a potential path to combating
some of the naysayers or skeptics
about this entire thing, right?
Because if you're going to play
sort of the nation versus nation thing, hey, this is why
we would do this to give ourselves a leg up as opposed to, you know, letting China accumulate
all this gold and we sort of stand idly by, you know, and make no play to try to strengthen
things on our own.
So, yeah, I think narratively certainly makes a lot of sense
as a potential catalyst for that reserve.
You know, if there was going to be a reason to actually flip the switch
to hit buy in a non-Delta neutral way, yeah, I can see it.
I think it's very non-zero.
I'm not saying it's favored by any means,
but I do think it is very on the table.
Let's say maybe 10 to 20% likelihood, I guess, is what I would put it at.
A long shot, but bigger than 1 in 100, I guess, is kind of where I'm at.
Are there no prediction market odds up about this yet?
That would actually surprise me a little bit.
When you say 10 to 20%, that feels maybe a little high to me, but I don't know.
I might be a little too pessimistic.
15%, all right.
I'm in the range.
U.S. National Bitcoin Reserve in 2025.
If the U.S. results, yes, if the U.S. holds any amount of Bitcoin in reserves this year.
Okay, so this isn't necessarily buying, right?
No, I think they would have to buy for this to hit.
Oh, okay, got it.
They could effectively mine Bitcoin and get it into a reserve.
I guess this is, what I'm saying is perhaps a little bit different than this.
I'm also saying, like the announcement of a reserve,
I'm not sure if they would be able to operationalize it in three months um but interestingly this is 15 because i think a
lot of folks thought this is lower than that can you go to like the one week i mean i can sort of
tell but yeah not not much okay flat on the month looks like there's a brief spike to 20.
order books,
not super thin. So yeah,
like a 10 K by probably briefly pushes to 20.
so you don't want to read too much into a spike like that,
but interesting.
I would have guessed this was lower without having pulled up this market.
Like my own personal thoughts aside,
I feel like most folks have kind of written this off.
I would have said lower too.
So that is an interesting one.
The other try I pulled up was the M2 Bitcoin.
I think a large reason we've seen this growing divide
between money supply and Bitcoin
is because there's been a lot of printing in China
and China is just going into gold. So I think that like the golden two chart would be an
interesting one. And I feel like it would probably be more in line at least this year.
So gold's up 45% year to date. What's Bitcoin up year to date? Let's see, 22%. All right. So 45% year to date. What's Bitcoin up year to date? Let's see.
22%.
All right.
So 45% versus 22%.
There is a myriad market which will outperform this year, gold or Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is a big dog there, but I kind of like it as the dog.
Let's see.
Well, Bitcoin outperformed gold in 2025.
Yeah, you've got it at 30%.
So you can get two and a half X on your money.
If gold rips,
you need Bitcoin to move up another 25%,
basically.
And gold to go flat.
It's a tough one.
It's tough,
right?
This is,
it is definitely a dog.
What does that mean from here?
One 25%.
That's one,
one 40.
So if you think Bitcoin goes to 150, 160 plus, this is interesting.
I don't see the, I don't, yeah, you're right.
You need the 150 to 160 because I don't foresee the Bitcoin,
strong Bitcoin performance in Q4 throughout the rest of the year
and gold staying flat, right?
So you need the outperform,
literally need the outperformance
quite strongly here,
which, yeah, I mean,
if you get a reserve announcement
or you get something silly like that,
definitely, definitely could happen.
What happens on a reserve announcement?
I mean, it's got a,
you know, a lot of the things
we like to say here,
sell the news, whatever, like something like that, you know, a lot of the things we like to say here, sell the news, whatever,
like something like that, of course, the initial rumors about that at the end of last year,
maybe early this year, probably facilitated a swift move up, you know, whatever, a couple
thousand dollars, maybe a little bit more. I would, I would tend to think given the time in which has passed since those announcements
the skepticism around it happening i would think if you saw a legitimate headline about one you
would see a pretty swift move up um my gosh i don't know uh i'd say 10 to 20k candle yeah i
was gonna say i was gonna say 10 000 what's that like a little less than
10k candle puts us basically back to all-time high from here yeah so i think it would be that
but we probably have a few days in a row that because yeah that that is not priced in i don't
think so either that's what i was trying to get at so thanks for saying that um yeah i the other
thing that could just you know stack on top of that, as you mentioned, I mean, if there's this literal head, whether it's literal or not, this headline divide about China with gold and the United States with Bitcoin, if they further lean into that type of stuff, that, to me, spells price up for sure.
Yeah, I think so as well.
A commitment to it, whether that be in headlines and hopefully actions as well.
But a commitment to that in any way, I think, would definitely send us up, of course.
Switching to ETH here for a second, I think a large part of the fear and greed dropping so much, being at 39, is this ETH sell-off.
So ETH was at $ 4,800 two weeks ago.
And then went sub 4K last week in the dip.
I think it went to 3850.
I think I saw it.
Perhaps maybe a touch lower than that.
Back at 4180.
So a nice little rebound off the bottom.
We did see the news this morning that Tom Lee and Bitminer did buy another billion in Heath, basically.
Though they seem to be the final continuous buyer, at least at these levels,
as it does feel like the debt trade has lost some steam.
And it has even more headwinds, right?
So arguably one of the biggest stories of last week, maybe the biggest story of last week was the SEC and FINRA are now
investigating up to 200 of these DATS,
treasury asset co's who hold crypto on their balance sheet.
Logan, I'm not sure if you had a chance to dig into this.
What was the story here?
Yeah.
So the report here is not like super, super deep.
I don't think it's going to be quite that many firms. More or less, they're investigating those
which there were outside the normal trading activity, basically. So like strong amounts
of trading, some stock spike stuff prior to the public announcements of the digital asset treasuries.
You know, so this is the, you know, those firms where, and I don't, I didn't look any up
specifically. Of course, there's not any named here directly, I don't believe, but this is where,
you know, kind of comes out of left field, but the stock was already up a hundred percent,
you know, in the, in the days leading to that actual announcement. That's the type of stuff
that it, from my read is going to be investigated here.
And I think is totally fair
and should be the stuff that is being investigated.
Those are the firms that probably aren't doing it
quite as up to the regulatory,
obviously, right?
Not up to the regulatory stuff
that's required to do this the right way.
And if you're not doing it the right way, do you actually have, you know, the shareholders'
best interests at heart? Do you actually have prospective shareholders' best interests at heart?
You know, probably not. So I think it's totally fine that they should be looking at stuff like
this. So long as your DAP has a long-term plan and is you know played by the book there shouldn't be
an issue yeah i think it's a good thing i think a crypto name should be rooting this on i think
these stories of insiders buying these stocks and being the ones who win the most and they're just
dumping on actual retail buyers like those those are the negative headlines we want to avoid.
But at the same time, this story to me does not also lead into the collapse of DATs
by any means.
And for one, I think the big DAT power players were likely pretty buttoned up.
So I would be surprised if they are the ones who are really going to come
out of this with violations.
And then if it's on the smaller end, A,
it doesn't mean that they become forced sellers.
It just means that you may have some folks who face some inside trading
penalties.
And then even if some of the smaller debts do somehow become for sellers,
I don't think it impacts the broader crypto space that much. We're not talking about BitMiner. We're
not talking about SBET or strategy. If the 20th Dogecoin debt becomes a fourth seller, who cares?
Yeah, I'm with you. And I think, like I was saying,
I don't think you want those people holding on your behalf anyway, right? Their participation
in this market, those are always the one that we sort of cringe at, even when their public
announcement comes through that they're going to create a treasury based on XYZ token, or even if
it was Bitcoin or Ethereum, they don't move the needle if it
is the case that it's these smaller asset treasuries.
So we don't actually know at this point in time.
On the whole, though, I think this is a positive headline.
I don't see how crypto, an active crypto participant could be, you know, discouraged by the SEC
wanting to, you know to keep those participants safe.
I know that seems a little cliche and kind of funny
based on the SEC's involvement alongside crypto for the last few years,
but you've got the crypto innovation exemption maybe coming too.
So things are getting a little more friendly.
Yeah, I was trying to see. I'm pulling up the dashboard here from Blockworks,
one of the better crypto treasury co dashboards to see if we have any insight into this. They had a,
I thought they had an overall M nav. Oh, here we are. I thought that I thought they had a graph of basically all of the overall aggregate MNAV.
But anyways, I do think that a huge majority of CT is rooting for debts to fail.
I think largely just so they can clout chase the fact that they called them a bad,
they were bad for the industry, and just to clout chase the fact that they were bad for the industry and just to cop chase the fact that they were right.
Though at the expense of largely all of our major backs.
So that it's so confusing to me that the people who are actively rooting for these to,
to fail.
I also think it's too early to even to call these failures.
They haven't had a chance.
Like Joe Lubin team,
haven't even had a chance to innovate Joe Lubin team, haven't even really had a chance
to innovate with their ETH holding jet
and really try to show
how they can earn yield in creative ways.
So that's just one example.
Enough time on the debts.
I want to keep moving forward.
I think another big, big headline of the week,
another one arguably the biggest,
Vanguard,
eyeing crypto ETF access
for their brokerage clients.
It's not a done deal just yet, but it looks like they are finally evaluating how they could perhaps allow access to crypto ETF trading on their platform.
And folks, this is a big one.
We've talked about Vanguard before.
One of the final players in the old guard to kind of hold the line and say, no, crypto.
I recently just transferred my 401k out of Vanguard for this very reason.
They're one of the biggest, I think second biggest, 10 trillion in assets, 50 million customers.
So if this one does go through, I mean, it's not hard to do some back of the napkin math, right, of what even ongoing 1% allocation of crypto could look like,
what an upfront rebalancing could look like at this scale. It's big, big dollars.
Logan, any reactions to this? Do you think it's going to go through, perhaps on what timeline,
if so? Yeah. Well, if you read through here, I mean i mean methodical i think is the word that's
used um it feels like that's very much on brand as it's been what forever now um and it's still
not there i do think eventually yes you have to succumb to what i assume is some pressure from
clients you know you yourself right transferred away because of the inability.
I suspect that has been happening.
Right.
So I do think it'll eventually go through.
I wouldn't get my hopes up about any like swift turnaround here on something like this.
You know, they've already they've already taken this much time.
It doesn't really matter, probably, if they wait another six months to a year right to finally implement things so where i would disagree with you on that is they do face more exits like
i exited in the last three months yeah and if they would have at least shown that it was on the
roadmap i probably don't do that like if they say it was coming q4 i probably say okay i'll hold off um and i think the longer they
wait the more that they do face i mean they're not going to see like a large exodus but a couple
percent maybe um what's also jumped out to me when i was researching this this morning i forgot that
their new ceo salim ramji is a blackrock bet and oversaw the launch of their, of IBIT, the Bitcoin ETF from BlackRock,
which is one of the most successful ETFs in ETF history. So he has his hands on that,
has the deep experience. So to me, this is a pretty obvious matter of when and not if.
this is a pretty obvious matter of when and not if it's going to happen.
It's going to happen in 2025.
That is a harder bet.
I feel like if I was betting on a prediction market,
if I was setting the line,
I'd say it's a coin toss 50 50 for some kind of announcement in 2025
implementation in 2025,
I'd say is closer to probably like 15%.
Yeah, that's, I think, I think I'm with you there.
I mean, it's already October.
You have the holidays.
It's just tougher to get stuff done.
I would imagine it's more difficult to get stuff done here,
especially with the financial year ending and whatever.
Yeah, no Vanguard markets.
Oh, wow.
We'll have to talk to our friends at Marriott.
Coming soon.
I'd imagine.
Let's get a Vanguard market here.
So let's double check to make sure we don't have one.
No, not yet.
So expect one of those perhaps to come.
Other big news kind of keeping us moving here.
Tether.
Oh, look at the author.
Logan Hitchcock. So you can tell us all about this. 500 billion, Tether. Oh, look at the author, Logan Hitchcock. So you can tell us all about this.
500 billion? Tether? Yeah. So actually, this was a separate headline from a few days after,
but earlier in the week, I think that was what, Thursday that I wrote that. Earlier in the week,
there was a report from, I believe, Bloomberg. Yeah, there you go, from Bloomberg, about Tether seeking $15 to $20 billion for a 3% equity stake,
which would put them in the same conversation as far as private companies and valuations go as SpaceX, OpenAI.
I mean, these are big, big dogs, right?
That's what they're seeking to be.
And then the second headline that I wrote about here was that among those potentially participating in that fundraising round were rumored to be SoftBank and ARK Invest.
ARK Invest, of course, Kathy Woods, investment management firm, and then a notable, super notable tech investor, SoftBank.
So no comments from them. We don't know too much details about the level of their participation.
But yeah, this is just further detail that Tether is a behemoth in this space.
One of the notes that I saw from that Bloomberg report that I thought was really interesting was this type of activity from folks like SoftBank, from folks like ARK Invest, kind of further entrenches stablecoins alongside tech companies and alongside finance.
which is stablecoins alongside tech companies and alongside finance, right?
At this point in time, stablecoins, I think probably the top thing from this entire year,
you know, Bitcoin all time high, notwithstanding all the headlines about our further entrenchment
with Bitcoin asset reserves, whatever.
Stablecoins have been the story this year, in my opinion.
And so they have entrenched themselves this year, in my opinion. And so they have
entrenched themselves in financial, mainstream financial activities. This type of stuff just
further solidifies that and validates their existence here. As folks like Scott Bessent
have been screaming for us as well. And we've kind of rallied behind as a means to say that,
hey, crypto is kind of real. This is very this just, you know, this is very much, I think just a continuation of that trend.
Um, nothing, you know, not too much else to say about that raise at this point in time.
Uh, I, to me, it's, you know, a little bit of confirmation bias on all those points I just
mentioned, but it is real validation that this is like a, this is a thing, you know? And then
of course you had the plasma stuff from last week, too.
There's so much in the stablecoin world that is going on.
It's a very, very, very real, you know, tons of momentum that's happening.
I would agree.
Number one story this year is the stablecoin explosion.
conclusion um tether i also was just casually looking at coin market cap and tether now
has flipped xrp in market cap yeah it was there last week as well um or at least i use coin gecko
so um it was third last week at least at one point maybe it was late last week um but yeah
more than 2x usdc in terms of total market cap. And I was looking just to keep rattling off the numbers.
Stablecoin market caps in total are up like 122 billion in the last year.
That's per DeFi Llama.
So I think we were like around this time, we were at like last year, we were at around 175 million or sorry, billion total market cap for stable coins now it's like
290 yeah 296 billion now so the chart tells the story right right there yeah stable coins are
actively exploding i did show up the circle stock so i know a lot of the i have good friends
jeeps circle short that they're circle bears i don't know man like i understand the barrier for
circle but tethers raising at 500 billion and circles sitting at 30 billion
i know they're very different companies but they're in the same industry
sector rather usdC is at 70.
As a total noob, just looking at this, right?
Without going into the in-depths of the bear and bull cases for the companies.
USDC's got 40% of Tether's on-chain market cap with stables.
And they're trading at 1.6th?
1.16th, rather?
What's the math?
Yeah, 1.16th of this recent raise.
I don't know.
Circle kind of looks cheap to me.
It's up 7.5% today.
So I think I've been thinking about closing those circles.
Yeah, just to know,
the raise has not happened.
So we don't know, right, of course, that they will ultimately be able to do that.
But, you know, being reported, of course, and I would imagine, just given the fervor around stablecoins,
that they probably have a pretty good idea of what they're capable of raising.
And, you know, if those are the numbers being thrown around, they'll probably be able to do so.
And, you know, if those are the numbers being thrown around, they'll probably be able to do so.
I have not. It's been a bit. So I don't know exactly Jeeves bear case or anybody's bear case about Circle.
But the thing that I think about is, you know, if boomers are looking to get exposure to stable coins and they realize that, of course, USDC and, you know, USDT, USAT, whatever's coming.
Right. The stable is coming from Tether for the United States.
They realize those don't go up, of course. Where do you put your money if you want to get the
picks and shovels? Circle stock. Circle stock's one of your only ways to do it. Yeah. So I don't
know. I would not be short. I would just go on record saying that. Tied to this Tether news,
and saying that.
Tied to this Tether news,
XPL, the plasma token,
did officially TGE,
I think, what, Thursday?
And, man, this was one of those
that it was so obvious in hindsight.
Like, it just sat there on the pre-market,
was widely available,
70 cents,
headed into their TGE.
Even after the Tether 500 billion news,
I think it sat there in that 75 cent, 80 cent range.
It TGE'd and then boom, straight, easy double.
Just a straight up 2X on TGE day.
Went from 70 to $1.40.
Kind of chopped, consolidated for a day.
Went up to $1.60 on a Saturday. And now has been kind of selling consolidated for a day went up to a dollar 60 on a saturday and now has been kind
of selling off a bit um curious where this one goes from here did you did you trade this low
did you watch this one any reactions to xpl or perhaps the xpl thoughts going forward yeah no i
didn't trade it um you know just been following loosely of course it was one of the top stories
near the back half of the week when there wasn't too much actually happening. But as I was just noting, right, as you think about ways to potentially gain exposure to this sector, which everybody is sort of in, at least to my knowledge, is sort of consensus that it's going to continue to grow, there aren't many super great ways to gain that type of exposure.
So this makes a lot of sense to me as to why you would have seen such interest right off the rip.
I still think, yeah. Sorry to cut you off.
I was just going to say, I mean, I don't have too much else to say about it.
I mean, they're one of the first to market of these sort of stable coin specific blockchains, right? Like, there's just there's not a whole lot of way everybody
wants to be able to bet on it in some way. Right? Like, I, I want to be able to bet on in some way.
I'm not really doing so right now. So it's a little hypocritical. But if you foresee the growth of stable coins in the way that all of these folks,
you know,
folks much smarter,
much more plugged in than I am.
See,
you have to find opportunities to,
to get those picks and shovels plays or whatever.
Right.
And this is,
this is the type of stuff that gives you that exposure.
You can sort of buy it,
close your eyes,
zoom out,
and maybe you wake up
in five years if you really want to right um wake up in five years and stable coins are at a what
whatever best and said what do you say uh we're at 293 billion they're at 10x that in 10 years or
whatever who knows i think there's a couple aspects of this trade right there's the access
to stable coins there's just a way to get access to Tether Company.
This is one of the only ways to do that as a de facto trade.
But then the whole Plasma Neobank, right?
And I was off last week, so I missed some of the details on this.
But it seems like they're really leaning into this new age bank concept based on their stable coins offering higher yields, lower fees and disrupting payments and banking.
There's something here, right?
Yeah. Well, and if you'll recall, Circle and all those others applied for those national, at least in the United States, I'm not exactly sure the terminology for it, but the national or the
federal banking license as well. That was opened up by the comptroller, the office of the comptroller,
I don't know, maybe in May or something. They wrote that letter that said that
national banks could custody crypto and stuff like that. So all part of all those headlines in which
things are just becoming more friendly towards crypto and more friendly towards stablecoins, of course, as well.
All of those players, right, making a push.
There's just so much momentum.
I mean, there's too many headlines to be able to run back through and check into, but it seems like only up for sure
for stablecoin growth.
Speaking of Tether and revenue, guess who flipped them
in the last day?
Aster, $28 million in fees in the last 24 hours, beating out Tether and Circle 7 and 8x what Hyperliquid's bringing in.
They've done $93 million in fees in the past seven days now, which is almost 4X what Hyperliquid has done.
Wow. And they've already flipped Hyperliquid on a month, even though they've really been
only been used for about a week. So it was a hell of a week for Aster. The token, of course,
had quite the run. It got the CZ tout, quickly ran from around 10 cents, basically straight up to $2.
Had that first pullback to $1.30. Made fresh all-time highs about five days ago, $2.40.
Now kind of chopping in this $1.80 to $2 range. I think everyone's taking the volume stats with
a grain of salt. They do have an airdrop coming. I believe it's coming October 5th, which will be a huge, huge airdrop.
The perp decks volumes are just off the charts.
They don't really even make sense.
Look at this.
The perp volume chart is one of the most shocking charts of the year.
of the year.
Average perpdex volume per day over the summer
was somewhere in the $20 billion range,
some outliers in the $30 to $40 range,
and then now we're at $100 billion on a Sunday.
Folks are clearly heavily farming Aster,
and it does seem like perpdex meta is upon us whether it's actually
a meta or just you know a new hot sector that's going to be around forever it probably will be
well it's not new by any means but there are some new players who are making it more exciting
aster with 83 and a half billion in volume in the past day lighter which i i wasn't even familiar with a week ago
has flipped up like what they did seven billion um and then apex is in this discussion as well
i saw their token launch and had a great uh couple days last week as well curious if you
just have any any reactions or takes on this broader perp dex. So while perp trading is not new, this type of attention and volume is new.
I think it's fair to call that a meta.
I think we are seeing folks who aren't historically perp traders doing more perp trading.
Curious if you have reactions to that.
Is it going to last?
Oh, boy.
I do have some reactions to that.
One, I don't think it's really that good um
i sort of hope it's meta uh you know it sounds maybe a little whatever scaredy cat like whatever
i'm a degenerate and i love to gamble too but this this stuff is um you know if you if you
want to do it you want to do it seriously like you got to put in the time and effort and you
have to be willing to stomach a lot of the swings, right?
The crazy swings that happen in this market.
And I really don't think it's for the majority of people.
And in this environment right now, this meta right now,
it feels like it's trying to become, you know,
for every person in this market.
You know, it is the thing to do right now.
And I'm really hopeful that that is not the case always.
Right.
So I don't believe it will be,
but right now there's not too much else to do on chain,
you know, so people are just trading perps.
I think of course this is all, you know,
ignited by Hyperlinked's airdrop, you know,
and dreams and aspirations of something similar that
that to me is the that's the catalyst here in my opinion um and uh i can't blame people
i definitely don't blame people for seeing what transpired but it's one of those things at least
from my experience and watching a lot of the airdrop stuff, the meta stuff.
It's not to say that some folks,
I mean, many folks have already printed on Aster.
It's not to say that the airdrop won't,
you know,
reward a lot of folks handsomely.
It definitely will,
but it's that law of diminishing returns thing to me where,
you know,
the little loops graphic that you share from time to time as well.
Right.
Aster is one of those smaller loops from hyper liquid and all of the others
will be even smaller loops from Aster, uh, until we find the next thing.
That's, that's my feeling on it.
Um, of course purpose is never going away.
Of course, you know, I'm right there with you.
I don't know that I'm ready to say that purpose trading is going to be, you
know, an Olympic sport.
You know, you saw those headlines from Korea, the streaming and stuff.
I don't know if I'm ready to commit to that.
It's going to be here, the financialization of everything.
I'm totally with all you folks on that.
I'm not disputing any of it at all.
Maybe it's a little bit of me hoping we can find something a little bit different to do.
Because I'm not a purpose trader.
I open one up every once in a while.
I traded on Aster last week just to see what it was like,
collect some points.
I think I'm on the Tyler D referral team.
I have like a, I don't even know exactly what my leverage,
I think like somewhere between 20 and 30X.
I just looked a little bar that got liquidated last, alongside I'm sure a lot of other folks.
Like what, more than a billion in liquidations last week?
So I hope there is other stuff to do, but I cannot, of course, fade the force of it right now.
It's too big to ignore right now.
I don't think it will always be that way.
The volumes may always be as big as they are.
As you get more people on chain, you get more people trading.
But in terms of the in-your-faceness that I'm feeling from this meta right now,
I don't think it's always going to be that way.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I have a lot of thoughts on this.
One, you mentioned the smaller rollercoaster loops.
Maybe, but this is a big airdrop.
There's a reason why folks are farming this so hard.
I mean, Aster is already a top 21 crypto token by FDV.
That's so wild. That's so stupid.
So it is already at 15 billion.
Hyperliquid's at 47.
But where was Hyperliquid? Hyperliquid's at 47 um but where was hyper hyperliquid launched much
lower than right hyperliquid like my first buy was at nine it opened at three on the first day
so that's at like a three billion ftv so i think this is actually a larger roller coaster loop
from an airdrop perspective there's more capital up for grabs um but it is
very crowded obviously i think it's going to be hard for your casual person to really make a dent
on aster versus hyperliquid i think i see that the common consensus that their perps platform
is trash or whatever as a casual perps trader to me i think it's fine like it it feels very much
like hyperliquid if if i hadn't seen that consensus take on the timeline that Hyperliquid is much better, I would have thought they're exactly the same.
Yeah.
So I've traded on both.
Again, I'm not a sophisticated perpetrator either.
So a lot of the nuance perhaps is lost on me, but it felt fine to me.
And actually, of course, a little bit easier onboarding.
And I think that's indisputable as a, you know, as a participant here.
But if I were going to be trading perps, and I know, I can't think of the names of the protocols or anything, but I know there are some working on it.
I would want the very, very simple, like, 10x, you know, I'm long, you know, that's, that's what are the, like the, almost like the
Tinder style swipe left, right. I know there are some protocols working on that. I think mega ETH
has maybe one or two doing so and, and some others on other chains as well. That's what I would be
utilizing. Uh, very simple, you know, degenerate gambling if I were going to be trading perps,
because I'm not drawing lines and doing TA. It's just not who I am. It's not in my skillset.
That's what this platform is for, in my opinion.
Yeah.
As an ASTRO holder, I will disclose I do hold the token.
I still think this is going much higher.
I think the criticism that it's not as good,
I feel like they've got time to continue to iterate on the product,
and now they clearly have seen the market's response.
So they will continue to work on this and refine it and make it better.
I think it's also clear that CZ is leaning in very heavily,
whether that means buying a token or just giving it support.
I mean, he's talking about this thing every single day.
So when the most powerful man,
Corteau is leaning into a protocol,
I pay attention to it.
So I think this is going to be around for a while.
I don't think it's a flash in the pan by any means.
I was talking with a good friend in Napa and we were talking about like,
I feel like meme coin trading has this like very negative connotation to it or
just broader market outlook.
While perps training is thought to be like on a pedestal,
although it is absolutely just a different form of gambling and arguably
worse is worse to get liquidated than to have your meme coin go down 90%
because at least your meme coin down 90% can come back.
Your liquidated perps position cannot.
So you can save all your holier than now talk for
me uh purpose training is not holier than anything else and yes i understand there's more i am sorry
tyler i am so there with you and i think some of it is because it's just harder to do right there's
like more terminology there's more like it's more complex than buying a Mii coin, right? In and out of a position. And I think that is whether right or wrong,
probably wrong led to some belief that those who trade it are more
sophisticated or smarter or whatever. Right.
Regardless of performance. And so, yeah, I'm with you.
I think there is some sort of pedestal provided to perps.
But with that being said, people love to do it.
People absolutely love to do it.
And on that note, I think people love
to trade memes as well. I'm pulling
up the meme dashboard
metrics from last week. And this
is one I was not paying attention to last week
and I started kind of catching up over the
weekend. What a brutal
week. Just a
full on 50 to 60% drawdown across the board and
new tokens deployed daily graduates launchpad volume and then of course revenue down uh daily
active address is down a fair amount as well then yeah here's revenue of course down as well below the 1 million mark. Or the first time in a month or so.
Is this because of perps, conference week,
just overall being tired of memes, any and all of it?
And then is this a paradigm shift
or are we reading too much into this?
Yeah, I think it's D, all of the above.
Just the confluence of whatever, tiredness.
Because you had an insane run the week before,
not necessarily in individual memes,
but in like the pump price,
might be two weeks before, whatever the actual timing is.
But you had some excitement around that sector
and the revenue generating stuff, of course.
So I think it's just a blip.
Memes are not going anywhere.
It's not like folks don't want to gamble on it.
They definitely do.
But Aster took the timeline by storm,
and now everybody's a perps trader.
And perhaps in two weeks,
maybe let's say Pump announces their airdrop,
whatever, right?
Like if that happened today,
you could see this stuff flip on a dime.
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe maybe you need to wait till if i'm pumped and i have an airdrop idea or plan i'm probably waiting till
after october 5th yeah october 6th alan is he's a smart guy he'll wait for october 6th i'm with
you i think the overreactions to the death of meme coins, again, has been too swift.
And I get it. There was three obvious trades, three or four obvious trades in the past few weeks. You had the pump 3X off the bottom, and you had the Aster 10 to 20X, whatever it was.
XPL was an obvious trade, and even Apex maybe. I wasn't around as much for that one,
but I think a lot of folks caught it and yes so
these are real protocols with real revenue and that and it is more some people say more fun maybe
better for the space to invest in those assets and i totally agree um but i don't think someone
who's showing up at their desk today is looking at those assets and say i'd rather trade those
here at these current prices than trying to catch a 10
to 20 X on a new meme. So I think my point is, I don't think that the main point of seeing that
was going away. Um, but it was a perfect confluence last week. It probably spills into this week.
Clearly the volume is over on perps right now, and that's not going to change before October 5th,
but, uh, will it change in Q4? Probably.
I don't think we're going to be doing $100 billion a day for all Q4.
And if we are, then it's just going to be absolute mania.
But one meme, at least, was able to survive
and have quite the week.
Punk strategy.
And just the broader NFT strategy tokens.
I was following this at arm's length,
but also noticing the engagement
hack. If you were low on engagement, you just want to tweet out. Just tweet out something about
pump strategy and you will get lots of love. So that is a tip for all the content creators out
there. Look at this chart. It is absolutely beautiful. This thing is hanging out at $79
million right now. On last Monday's show, this was at $17 million. It had its first pump,
sell-off, had a kind of a repump and then a sell-off again. It looked like maybe that was
the range it was kind of destined to trade in, that $15 to $30 million range, and perhaps still
at risk of kind of just slowly bleeding out to zero. But man, it looks like the launch of an announcement of the new NFT strategies was a
big win.
And then just the fact that continues to accumulate,
did it get its last one?
it hasn't gotten it yet.
So they're 96% of the way to their 18th punk helped 17 and current
holdings.
Now some nice ones on this list.
Yeah.
I like that red hair.
This is a nice one.
The pipe is definitely above floor.
The door,
the smoking headband,
even this,
like this is a clean dildo head with sunglasses.
So they're starting to have quite the collection where i'm going to see like
where are they in overall holders while i pull that up uh logo reactions to punk strategy nft
strategy where do you think it goes yeah geez this is a tough one tyler because we had this flagged
uh in a mutual group really early one million like one million one million one million and i
actually i vividly remember this because uh there is a town in Pennsylvania called Intercourse, PA.
And I happened to be there on that day.
That's why I remember this.
I was in a stupid gift shop when it was flagged.
And I was just like, this is interesting.
I thought about swapping to it.
And then, of course, there was some early FUD.
And then, you know, I was just out and about.
So I didn't ever do it.
And then I sort of just sat idly by and watched others eventually participate.
And now for me, I'm on the sidelines, at least at this point in time.
All that being said, I think this is fantastic because, one, I love the weird innovative stuff.
I don't even think this is that weird you know this is taking advantage of innovative tokenomic
architecture right mechanisms with fees uh and the second part that i think is most important here is
you're cool you're like creating this community in this collective that wants to root for the same
thing and that's typically what you need to make prices go up it was interesting to me that you
referred to this as a meme coin because i wouldn't categorize it as such but the the mechanics of it the community aspect are very meme adjacent in my opinion and that is what's
helped to me what helps propel things like this right you need everybody to get super excited
about the dog with the hat to get the price to go up same thing here like you want everybody
rooting for it to buy the next punk um to get price to
go up here as well so i think i think these are awesome uh i'm totally on board with them you know
i am not smart enough to like sit down and do the math on what makes total sense um as far as like
where an ultimate range may be for something like this right and what you need the nfts to do versus
what you don't.
I can't answer for any of those because there's probably a price at which it
doesn't make sense.
But I think the motives here and I think the community aspect and everybody
rooting for the same thing is awesome.
And I think it's not everybody rooting for people to go out and do stupid
stunts that are perhaps dangerous.
You know, CCM really came and left really, really quickly.
And you're right.
I didn't mean to know.
I sagged off meme coins.
I would also not classify this as a meme coin.
More of a utility, a utility token.
It's probably a better play.
It's also a speculative asset.
And Cirrus described it as kind of a call option on punk's
future which is an interesting way to think about it it's not an mnav play so like yes like it is
more interesting the more punks they hold but i don't believe this is trading at some multiple
of the underlying value of their punks and I don't think there will continue to be measured like that by the market.
I think there's a lot of intangibles. I think there is the excitement play.
There's the community play, the tokenized aspects of exposure to punks.
And then the actual mechanism of selling, right?
When the cells actually come through, what is that going to do to the chart? And of course, the higher the of selling, right? When the cells actually come through,
what is that going to do to the chart?
And of course, the higher the token is,
the less impact that will be,
the sell and buyback and burn of the token.
But it is an exciting experiment.
And then the other piece is,
they're proving out this broader NFT strategies model.
We're seeing excitement in these downstream NFT collections.
Their floors are running.
They're buying and burning quite a bit.
And then, what, 1% of all those fees go back to buying and burning punk strategies?
So now you also have that as an ongoing flywheel.
And I think all the major NFT collections are going to have one.
Another seg, arguably the most exciting NFT we've had maybe since the other deeds,
Hypers, the Hyperliquid Genesis NFT, which was airdropped to early users,
maybe EVM power users.
I don't know the exact criteria of who got these.
But the price action is out of this world.
So these are holding a 1338 Hype 4.
That is roughly $60,000.
They've seen 1.4 million hype volume in the last 24 hours,
which is over $60 million.
So 60 million in NFT volume.
That is a lot.
That is off the charts for what we've seen recently in this space.
So the demand is through the roof.
I've already seen some chatter of hyper strategy, which could absolutely take this thing
to the next level. The art is good. It's not an art play. I am curious for your read on the
hypers and if they're a buy at 60K. If they're a buy at 60k, man.
It's really difficult to tell anybody
to buy an NFT for 60k.
The one thing I would say is that
hyper hype has enriched a lot of people
and enriched them a lot.
So if there's a way to flex
that you got rich on hype, if you wish to do so,
this is how you do it. And for a lot of folks for a long time on Ethereum or in crypto in general,
that was via CryptoPunks. And this, it's a little weird to be comparing a one day old NFT
to CryptoPunks, of course. I don't mean to do so quite so literally,
but if you want to, you know, flex yourself,
this, I get it.
I get it.
And so, you know, 60,000 fair price, I don't know.
It's really difficult to say that that seems right.
But it definitely makes sense that the leading NFT on hype,
which is going nowhere anytime soon,
or the leading status symbol, I should at least say, for hype,
it makes sense that it would be right up there
inside the top five or 10 as far as NFT collections go.
They're expensive, but I also think these probably trade higher.
I think a lot of people think they're going to trade
much higher.
There's a lot
of ranges of outcomes. I think we'll
spend more time talking about these
entities on future shows
because I see we are at the top of the hour.
I think the bull case and bear case
takes a little bit more time to really go
through. Perhaps we will
save that for tomorrow.
But man, I knew we had a lot to catch up on.
And Logan, I don't think we even got through your list.
Maybe we'll save some stories for tomorrow.
But man, we are so back.
It's been good to chat with you all.
I want to thank all of our listeners
for tuning in here this morning.
We will be back tomorrow at 10 a.m. Eastern
to cover all of today's action.
Until then, go make it a beautiful day. Goodbye. Thank you.
