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FOMO HOUR: Market Outlook, Solana Heats Up & Fartcoin 📈
Recorded: May 1, 2025 Duration: 1:10:51Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic crypto landscape, major players like Schwab and Morgan Stanley are entering the crypto trading arena, while Anthony Pompliano's $200 million SPAC launch signals robust investment interest. Meanwhile, WorldCoin's U.S. launch and the debut of the Boop.fun meme coin launchpad highlight ongoing innovation and project development in the space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. GM, GM, everyone, thank you for joining us here this morning.
We're going to start the show here in just a minute.
We're getting our speakers up on stage.
A few shout-outs while we wait.
Oxy, CRK, Irking, Nifty Blinders, GM, Bill, T-Block, Arcade.
Who else we got?
DNFT.
Frog GM.
All right. I'm not sure if the Rug Radio account is going to be joining us here.
So why don't
we go ahead and
kick it. Thank you. um Good morning.
Good morning, everyone.
GM, GM.
And welcome to another episode of FOMO Hour.
Today is Thursday, May 1st, 2025.
It's gonna be May.
May 1st is finally here, May Day,
historically the month where everyone sells and goes away.
But this time feels different.
And our question is,
is buy in May and pray the correct strategy this year we're going
to get into it on today's show still no faro he'll be back next week but we got mando and
logan in the house boys jim how you doing i'm doing amazing man uh it's actually a holiday here
so thank you for understanding um first of may is a holiday across a lot of Europe.
Yeah.
In South America.
Yeah.
I'm still shackled.
Is it holiday for you guys?
Not in the U.S.
But Logies in Peru.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a holiday here.
My coffee shop was not even on its wheels when I came around the corner this morning.
So I'm uncaffeinated, but otherwise feeling really good here.
Weather perfect.
Last few days in Peru trying to savor it here.
Man, I don't know if I've done a single uncaffeinated show in my life, to be honest.
So I'm wishing you luck, Logie.
Going uncaffeinated is not in my playbook
or in my wheelhouse.
Folks, we've got a lot to talk about.
Thank you for joining us.
If it's a holiday where you are,
if it's May Day, Labor Day in Peru,
thank you for spending time with us here.
We've got a lot to talk about.
Market's looking good.
Some nice earnings out of Robinhood. We've got a lot to talk about. Market's looking good. Some nice earnings out of Robinhood.
We've got Bitcoin moving.
Some alts are moving.
Schwab, Morgan Stanley, E-Trade are going to get into crypto trading.
Ripple tries to buy Circle, gets rejected.
We've got Solana Institute trying to bring stocks on chain.
WorldCoin making some moves here.
Coming to the U.S, launching their mini orb.
This new app, Axiom,
wasn't even on my radar.
Backed by Y Combinator.
Now the number two app on Solana by revenue.
Did $10 million last week.
We've got Pomp.
Anthony Pompliano, he's launching a $200 million crypto SPAC.
So watch out for that.
Crypto AI is heating up. We've got this new
meme coin launchpad, Boop.
.fun. It's dropping any
minute now. It might actually go live during the
show and it's coming with an airdrop
and some very interesting incentives
and some new runners
in the Solana meme streets
in the second half of the show here.
We'll talk with our good old friend,
Emily Loves Crypto, about what she has been building. Before we dive in, quick shout out
to our partner, Wallet Connect. Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the future
of on-chain UX. If you've connected to a Web3 app, you've seen Wallet Connect, that blue logo.
It's everywhere, and I kind of trust in crypto as recognizable as Visa at the checkout. If you
want to learn more, follow at Wallet Connect on X and Telegram
to stay ahead of what's next.
We love our partners as always.
Mando, I don't know that I'm going to have the intro music for you,
but if you're ready, let's just get right into it.
No intro music.
Yeah, no Sims.
I don't have the intro.
I apologize.
You don't need the intro on a day like today, do we?
Relax show. It's a holiday.
It's a holiday. We're relaxed. The ties are off.
It's looking good, man. Definitely a strong market here.
It's always good that on the quiet days, crypto just goes higher.
We had that dip yesterday, and it felt a little bit...
That figure wasn't that good.
But then the narrative kind of emerged that bad is good here and that if there's going to be a recession,
it's going to be more chance of money printing, more chance of cowbell essentially.
And that is going to mean that that's going to be good for Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin reacted very well to it.
Stocks actually even managed to eke out a game,
which was pretty surprising given they looked like they were heading for a bad day.
And they're higher again today.
So yeah, there's this feeling now that this will probably lead to some form of stimulus now
and that the Fed will kind of act.
And everything's just gone a little bit higher on the back of that.
So a strong day, Bitcoin's heading back up to 100K area.
And a lot of the stuff that we were talking about that already looks slightly stretched i would say is is it's right back up
again so big moves in ai coins well the meme coins have taken another leg higher and some of the l1s
are doing decently i think all the coins that we kind of mentioned could have a run here having a
run in ai we've mentioned virtuals could do it as you said and that's had a big run it looks like
on the back of this platform similarly across the border that's been a pretty big run so
um taos that is moving higher again today ai16z fartcoin obviously all strong so generally a very
strong period here for the ai coins memes i would say that the larger memes haven't done as well today it's been more of the
mid-sears that are generally outperforming i've seen they're doing okay but they're not doing
like they're not leading the pack as they have been for a while barcoins obviously kind of leader
there but they're up like yeah five percent ish at least some of the larger ones but it's the ones
in the 25 to 200 million dollar's the ones in the $25 to
$200 million range, which I think are really
starting to see some moves higher at the moment.
So big percentage gains
in some of those, and
that wealth effect that we kind of spoke about
is being felt. And then in the L1s,
again, I think we kind of mentioned the coins that we
felt like could be stronger if this got going,
and that was Hypes.
Hypes had a move above nearly 21 here.
We've seen a move in Sonic again.
That's up about 10% today.
We've, yeah, I guess Tau, you could argue,
is an L1 as well.
There's a range here that just feels strong.
Sui is having their big,
like, it's their big, like,
dev meeting in Dubai at the moment.
So that's a bunch of announcements on the back of that,
including, like, an ETF announcement today,
I think.
So that's up about 5% to 10%.
So I think we've called it pretty well
in terms of the coins
that you would want to own
if Bitcoin went up to 100K here.
And, of course,
retcoin retcoins up 45% yesterday.
How about that?
How about that?
Obi,
he's on the man on a mission.
He wants to sell a million drinks this year.
I'm not, I'm not taking numbers.
I think he might be able to do it,
which would be wild for,
for the first year.
Yeah.
It's up 100% on the week.
I think he kicked it off.
If he does sell a million drinks,
I don't know.
There's a chance that that business,
and there's a flywheel, obviously,
as you saw that we did a buyback.
That was what kickstarted this.
And that was one,
that was the headline that really grabbed my attention.
Because I guess I wasn't expecting it.
Yeah, so I don't know.
Like, I think there's a chance.
And obviously how this works is,
is that all the NFT holders got shares in the company.
And then further to that,
we did a buyback
and there's some form of flywheel going with the revenue of the business.
So I think it's like a mini pudgy play at the moment, right?
Like obviously we're not as big there,
but there's a lot of potential we could do here.
And I know he's got a bunch of different drops coming.
There's an announcement coming today. Yeah and let's see where i mean i can lay out the wrecked bull case for one it's
all over it's all over dubai and all these streams i'm saying i'm seeing the wrecked brand these
cases of wrecked drinks behind the speakers and i saw that firsthand in Miami at, at Basil. And I know like the kind of impact that
has for the people who are there and they get the cans in their hand and they're trying it like,
Hey, this is actually good. And I've tried the new flavor and it is good. It is genuinely good.
So they've got a good product. You've got Ovi driving the ship ship he's hustling and announcing the buybacks and then just from like
a ta perspective you look at this chart and it surges it goes down and you've got the time
capitulation and then it starts to curl like this is one of the single best looking opportunities i
think when you're trying to find those tokens that can go 5 10x or more. And as you mentioned, a team that's behind it,
along with the community, of course, the rec community.
So there's a lot of factors.
I like this one a lot.
I'm talking about AgSuite.
I have been buying this.
I bought more yesterday
because I think there's still a lot of upside
with a $27 million market cap or $44 million FDV.
So, Obi, we're rooting you on.
Curious to see what the announcement is
here today.
Man.
What's Kangoo worth these days?
1.2 billion? Yeah, sounds about
right. I mean, it's one of those things where
people were getting hung up
on, oh, it fell 80%
or whatever, but
it sells 700 million
or a $1 billion FDV.
This is a large chunk.
Is that FDV real?
I know they burn a lot.
I think around 13% they burn.
So I don't know if that's factored in here or not.
So I guess it's not because it's still showing the circulating supply.
So the FDV would be lower than that.
It's similar, right?
It had the big run-up.
It's very similar to Chart-A-Rect, right?
They mirror almost exactly.
Early spike, sell-off.
When do we combine?
When's the big...
The 2025 merger.
Man.
That would be a very interesting M&A deal for me.
My world's colliding.
That's good.
That's after Pudgy Penguins buys OpenSea.
Then Rekt, right?
Yeah, God.
Man.
Luca's distribution with these Rekt drinks, man.
That's interesting.
I'm not saying I haven't thought about it,
but I think we're going to hit some big numbers this year for the Rekt.
I mean, of what I've seen for what Obi's got coming,
I think it's going to be a cool play.
It's exciting times for sure.
It's hard to get the public sale open.
I think folks are shopping at the vet to get these drinks.
I'm going to be bringing them to my Chicago suburb.
So if you're around the barbecues this summer,
you're going to have some abstract apple drinks in your hand.
I want to come back to some of these majors.
So ETH now up 5% on the day 1840 souls at 152 um mandor are you looking at any of these
majors i mean let's put bitcoin aside i think we're all in agreement bitcoin looks pretty good
um see see what i've been doing actually um if, do you guys ever use GMX?
I don't.
Yeah.
So if you go to GMX, why don't you bring it up?
Because maybe it's interesting for some people in the audience.
Just do GMX.
Is this you?
GMX.com.
Sorry, I really don't.
Just type on GMX and then hit the first link oh god
the decentralized perv exchange
so you know I used to be like
in JLP and then I was like
I don't love some of the L1 plays here
so I was like
I need to find something else
so you go to that earn section
on the top
and you go down
and why don't you sort by apy there
so what they have here so how gmx works is is you can essentially
go go long the perp fees for a certain pair.
Okay?
But interestingly, what GMX does is you don't always have to take the underlying risk of the pair.
So see that fart coin pair right there?
Yeah, I'm looking at that.
That actually, the underlying, you actually have a risk of 50% Bitcoin,
50% USDT, but you earn your fees based on Fartcoin trading.
Interesting.
So you can basically put like a belong Bitcoin.
Well, 50% stable, so you can get Bitcoin.
And then belong, basically the fees are some of this more risky stuff. And then be long, basically, the fees
on some of this more risky stuff.
So I've got Pengu, because Pengu is similar
as BTC, USTC, and Farquan.
So I've got quite big positions in both of these
at the moment, alongside some other ones.
So I basically, like, you can be long Bitcoin,
but long the trading fees of, like, more DGEN stuff.
And I'd like that as a
that's kind of like my new JLP
more recently because I prefer
it in terms of the risk
profile. And you can
win both ways, right? You're basically just
you just want volume or I guess
so like
Pengu has made me a ton recently
because like I had a big position on there just just in
the view that people would trade pengu and um and basically you can basically have like a
be long bitcoin and stables and and get 30 percent apy with some of those um
so that's been like the base that that is the base of my portfolio now
it's like this long Bitcoin and stables
with a
trading fee kicker based on
degen activity
and then
obviously have Epic and I have Rekt but then I have the
I just trade perps on some of the
more risky stuff so
and I only really have two perp positions
and some of the more risky stuff. So I only really have two per positions.
And I have,
and there's a fart coin and towel at the moment.
And then I have some doing some sonic farming as well,
but that's,
that's a bit different.
Yeah.
And I was watching that one 20 line on fart coin.
Folks may recognize the logo on the new hat,
shiny new green Farquhar hat.
We were up against a dollar 20.
That was,
that's the level.
I think it was the third or fourth time knocking on it.
It wasn't clear.
We were going to get through it.
Then we smashed through last night.
Chart looks good.
Chart looks real good there.
Why?
So JLP.
So it sounds like you're not in JLP anymore.
Is it because you're a little bit more bearish on soul?
I'm just more bullish on Bitcoin.
So JLP is 65%. Gotcha.
But it's,
it's,
it's obviously 45% of risky coins,
but 45% of that is Solana.
10% of that is Bitcoin. 45% of that is Solana. 10% of that is Bitcoin.
10% of that is ETH.
And my view is, and also if you go to JLP,
because the amount of trading that's happening on,
if you go to their yield, if you just type in JLP yield,
the size of the JLP pool over the large year has gone up a lot.
And the amount of trading, at least over the last couple of months,
has gone down quite a lot.
So it's only 11% APY now.
So it's like, do I want to own that basket of L1s for 11%
or do I want to own 50% Bitcoin, 50% USDC and earn 30%?
USDC and earn 30%.
And it still kind of has that kicker of like the more risky stuff.
And then obviously I have lots of other risky stuff,
but that's,
that's now become my like set it and forget it kind of position.
Makes sense.
Which was JLP.
And I think I'll probably have it in those pools for a long time now.
Yeah, well, I appreciate you walking us through that.
Logie, any fresh perspective on your side on majors,
broader market here on May 1st?
Yeah, nothing crazy from my perspective.
I'm trying to pay a little bit closer attention to some of the more risky assets at this point in time where, call it trenches, whatever. But I'm still just, you know, final few days in Peru here. I've been a little less active overall in terms of actual actions whilst here. But keep buying Bitcoin. I feel super comfortable. Never really wavered. I've
been through a few cycles now, so it's a little bit easier, of course, every time.
But just keep dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin. I feel like that's something that
this monstrosity of headlines that we talk about every single day, this feels like the one that
you can look back in five, 10 years and be like, yeah, yeah,
they were kind of beating us over the head with it. So otherwise I'm not
deviating too far.
I still keep kicking myself about not buying more far coin. Yeah.
Yeah. I was just thinking as you pulled up the chart here, Tyler,
because I was on maybe my, I was on the show,
maybe my first week in Peru as well, or second week, I'm not sure,
but which was only a couple of weeks ago and it was like $500 million. And I was saying the show maybe my first week in Peru as well, or second week, I'm not sure, which was only a couple weeks ago, and it was at like $500 million.
And I was saying the same thing then.
You're going to kick yourself all the way up, my friend.
I know.
I know.
It's been silly.
But no, I'm not deviating.
I mean, I feel like if things are going to get real silly again, the winners are going to win.
And Farcoin and Bitcoin are two of the winners,
two of the very strongest winners.
Bitcoin,
of course,
being the ultimate champion.
But I don't feel like I need to stray too far beyond that.
Bitcoin looks real strong here.
That is a fact.
It is wild that just three weeks ago,
we were tapping 75K again.
And just how quickly things can shift.
The ETFs actually were red for the first time,
but they've seen massive inflows.
And I bet it's on just a massive green streak.
I run through a few headlines.
We've got some breaking news out of the trenches.
Say it again.
If you go back and listen to those shows at that exact time,
we were like, this is the moment.
I think at 78K, we were like, just stop buying.
And then I thought we'd range around 85 for a bit longer,
but it's been very strong.
Yeah, that's what's been striking.
I think the stock market has been surprising to me as well.
So we saw negative GDP yesterday.
Some people were saying, okay, it's been a relief rally.
We were oversold.
You're selling every pump.
But now S&P, it's up quite a bit off the bottom here.
It was sub-5000. It's at 5,600. It's up quite a bit off the bottom here. Like it touched, it was sub five thousands at 5,600,
it's up 12%.
We're now down less than 4% on the year.
And I don't want to get too overly bowled up here.
I feel like we're all just waiting for the bottom to fall out.
But like, we've had all this terrible economic data,
like the tariffs are going to disrupt everything.
It doesn't mesh with what we're seeing.
I guess I was talking to Sam Stats.
He's pointing to the disconnect between Main Street and Wall Street.
So McDonald's is hurting right now, Walmart.
But up top, Facebook smashed earnings.
I think Microsoft did as well.
So perhaps the big players are going to be
doing well enough through this
to carry the markets.
I don't know.
It's been hard for me to wrap my head around.
I guess.
Yeah, look, I'm not that bullish
on the economics of the situation in the US,
but as we always know,
that can be quite a big departure from
what happens in markets.
And I think the market
is looking through to what might happen
in like
six months,
12 months here and assuming that the Fed's
going to have to move.
Interesting.
Looks like the tenure just popped up about 1.05.
Well, that's the macro talk.
I want to talk some quick headlines.
Just going to run through them.
And then I want to get to this breaking news out of the boop.
So WorldCoin officially launches in the US.
Logie, hold your thoughts.
We may come back to this here in a second.
They're in six cities.
They also launched a mini orb device.
A little bit less intrusive,
though you still have to grapple with
the question of the data that you're giving up.
MetaPlanet, the Japanese
microstrategy, they're spinning up
a Florida subsidiary and looking
to raise $250 million to buy more
Bitcoin. Robinhood
being Q1 estimates.
Their crypto book was a part of that.
Anthony Popiano raising $200 million for a SPAC.
This Ripple one was interesting.
Maybe let's drill into this just for a minute or two.
Ripple offered Circle $4 to $5 billion to acquire it.
And Circle said no. $4 to $5 billion to acquire it.
And Circle said no.
And the reason that's interesting, I guess,
is we know Circle's going to IPO soon.
So founder and team, supposing,
are betting they're going to go higher than that in the public market.
And that was originally where I thought Circle would open and then perhaps go higher.
But then we got a look at some of their financials and revenue was, or income was down year over year.
Revenue down. Yeah, as well. Right. No, no, no. Revenue was not down, but income was down year over year.
And I kind of had them penciled in at $2 to $3 billion.
So a little surprising
to see if they rejected it. Mando, curious if you
saw this one, if you had any
takes. Feels like a
good deal for both companies, in my opinion.
I think
Circle won't get that
valuation.
And Ripple needs PMF. And circle won't get that valuation and ripple needs pmf and why not just combine like rip rip no one
knows why ripple's worth 200 billion dollars and circle one billion dollars difference is going to
be a rounding error for them so and you know ripple's also
been trying to get into the stable coin game for a while clearly has a lot of reach in the us
feels like a no-brainer to me yeah like it means that ripple can stay around for 20 years and
everyone can still believe that it's going to replace swift you know so uh i think this makes sense i don't know i think it's come out strategically because
potentially circles like i don't know what four to five billion dollars what is that in
you know often when a company buys an office to another company, it can be stock for stock, it can be cash.
This feels like it could have been in tokens.
And I don't know if that's why they rejected it.
But, and the fact that it's been leaked at this stage,
it's clearly been leaked by the circuit guys, right?
So my guess is that they want they probably liked
thought the offer was reasonable but
probably had some clauses and caveats that meant
that you know they didn't want to immediately jump in it
but it did give them a high valuation
and they're like well look these guys give
us this high valuation but
you know they probably gave the valuation in
Ripple and maybe that's why
it was so high.
So, yeah.
I think that's why this has come out.
I still think there's a deal to be done.
I mean, Ripple should offer like $8 billion in Ripple.
It makes sense for them.
I feel like they're the biggest fake it till you make it.
We don't know why they're worth anything,
but they continue to acquire.
I forget the last acquisition they had,
but it was a pretty legitimate player.
And then if they acquire Circle,
now they're just starting to build a laundry list
of good products with exposure.
So maybe we haven't seen the last from these two.
We will certainly see.
Folks, it looks like Boop.Fan,
the latest new meme coin launchpad
from Ding-a-ling may have just gone live.
I'm getting some pings here.
Let's take a look.
Yeah, it's go time.
So they have officially launched.
They announced yesterday that they are going to do an airdrop for some folks.
It looks like it's going to be based on Kaido Mindshare in the meme coin space.
They also announced incentives to buy their Boop token.
So if you buy Boop, let me see if I can find the tweet from Dingaling here.
Yeah, he shared it here. After launch, Boop stakers will continuously receive 5% of the
total supply of all new graduated tokens and 60% of all sole fees from the token LPs.
So some pretty interesting incentives here. So they're launching a token LPs. So some pretty interesting incentives here.
So they're launching a token launchpad.
They're doing an airdrop. The token is live now, and they're giving you incentives to buy and hold this.
And they said they're basically attacking a problem in the market that whales,
they might want more exposure to meme coins,
but they don't want to spend eight hours a day at the computer
to try to buy the new runners.
Well, now they're going to be able to get those passively
simply by buying, holding, and staking that Boop token.
I think there are some questions around the airdrop,
specifically how it's going to work.
Dingling kind of alluded to the fact that if you had a big airdrop coming,
you were going to have to drop a token yourself to be able to claim it,
which is a very interesting caveat.
So we will see if that is indeed one of the stipulations.
I believe that Boop Token is live and trading.
Oh, wow.
And we missed this one.
I knew this was going to do well.
Distracted during the show. Didn't have a chance to trade this one. I knew this was going to do well. Distracted during the show.
Didn't have a chance to trade this one.
$300 million out of the gate.
Congrats to anyone who got in early on this.
$25 million volume already.
It's been live for about half an hour.
I'm grappling with $300 million valuation live in real time.
It's high for an untested platform.
Their incentives make me think this thing could still go higher,
but it's a little riskier at 300 than it was.
I mean, when this thing dropped to 100,
I think that was a slam buy.
300, what are your thoughts, Bogie?
Well, I'm thinking about this, and I know it's different,
but the mechanics here are similar in nature to meme, M3, M3, right,
from Meteora in which you staked your meme tokens to earn uh fees you know trading
fees um right so it's it's like that it's not the exact same there's additional benefits right you
earn a percentage of the airdrop sorry a percentage of the token supply from the tokens launched
on the platform right but it's still sort of that same sort of thing like three three stake this token earn you know a portion of the
tokens and that stuff just it always has me a little skeptical um not just because others have
done it and failed but just you know uh the well i guess a little bit because of that but you know
um i'm just a little skeptical because i want to see it succeed once first. Like I'm,
I'm struggling to like actually see it succeed beyond,
you know,
a week or two weeks of speculation and people kind of rallying around the
same thing,
fun,
Hey,
we're all winning type thing.
But if they actually get a bunch of tokens to launch that are successful and
they generate a ton of revenue and fees and stuff,
then yeah,
I mean,
it definitely could definitely could yeah, I mean, it definitely could work.
I mean, I think it's $320 million at this point in time
in this market is really difficult to grasp with,
especially right out of the gate.
But I mean, if you see it as a legitimate pump fund competitor,
I mean, it sounds ridiculous to say that on day one,
but if you see it as such, I don't know.
Is it that crazy to be a $323 million token?
I'm looking through some of the airdrop mechanics.
It looks like
your airdrop will unlock after 30 days.
But if you launch a token
and get it to $5 million,
you get it immediately.
Which is interesting.
So if you don't do anything, you'll get access to your tokens in 30 days,
but you can speed that process up. And then for folks who are traders, there's going to be an airdrop allocation for traders as well. Buy half a soul of any token on their platform and you'll
get access to it so man they've got
some very interesting incentives to start using the platform i'll give them that i do think this
was a pretty well thought out launch and i've seen now half a dozen of these launch in the last six
months three months really like gfm i thought was kind of messy pumpkin was promising and then they
kind of fumbled it all.
LaunchLab, of course, has done a nice job,
and they've seen some real success.
So I guess we'll see how Boop can compare to LaunchLab.
Man, where are we valuing Pump?
If Pump drops the token, where's that thing going to be trading?
They're still doing $2 million a day in revenue or in income.
$2 million a day in fees.
So they're annualizing $500 to $700 million right now.
Trades at $5 billion plus?
What do you think, Luke?
I don't know.
I have to look at the board to see what...
It's tough for me to conceptualize 5 billion.
So that is like, okay, in the top 30-ish tokens?
That's FDB.
Oh, sorry, you're talking FDB?
Yeah, yeah.
Still not too far beyond, not too far below that anyway.
That seems reasonable to me.
You know, as reasonable as things can be in crypto and stuff, right?
Whether it actually makes sense based on the economics,
who knows, who cares?
But it wouldn't shock me to see PumpFun at a $5 billion FDV.
Is Boop all out?
It's not, right?
So what do you...
I would imagine...
Yeah, I would imagine the circulating
is much lower than we're seeing right now.
Yeah.
So stay tuned.
We'll talk about this more tomorrow
as this develops.
And I'm curious, you know,
so now we've got more tokens.
You'll have more incentive to trade Boop tokens.
Is that going to take demand away
from some of the others?
But while we're on this board, some notable headlines in the DGN streets.
This Gork token, I guess X launched a new AI agent. I kind of missed this last night.
Token came out, went straight to 20 million, dropped by 50% and then soared to 60% overnight. I think this is the biggest single-day new token runner we've had
since the crash in January or February to hit $60 million this fast.
And it's selling off here this morning.
But you can already see there's some life in the trenches,
and then we start to see these type of plays where if you're not early,
they run up super fast.
And then if you buy the top and then you just see the slow bleed out.
So these are the kinds of charts that I hate,
but I have to have to mention it because it was an incredible run.
Bar coin at $1.25.
Of course we talked about house coin still hanging out at a hundred.
One of my favorite neat, the neat revolution.
Looks like we're moving up folks. I mean, still hanging out at 100. One of my favorite. Neat. The neat revolution.
Looks like we're moving up, folks.
So neat.
Making a new all-time high of 50% here as well.
So it's a mixed action.
I think some of the others, like Troll, sold off yesterday.
A few other new runners sold off.
It's going to be interesting to see the new dynamics with Boop. I think the other thing here is that trenches are getting an airdrop.
So we are actively getting an influx of cash.
I don't know exactly how much into the trenches.
So I imagine a good chunk of that is probably going to go back into some of these.
So some training action to be had.
Logie, I asked you to dig into this WorldCoin story,
which I felt like was timely because I've just been seeing on my timeline,
a few more folks say they're building WorldCoin positions.
I think DC Investor actually brought up over this past weekend that he's been building a position.
Curious for what the news is here and if you have a perspective on the token.
Yeah, there were actually a couple of announcements yesterday uh the last day of april this this one being the most notable that um they're launching the scanning
orbs which is how you kind of validate and verify your humanity and earn world tokens in the process
across six major cities in the u.s previously they were only available um i don't even know
where right but worldwide but not in places easily accessible,
of course, for any of the US citizens
that now will have access to do so.
So 7,500 different orbs,
I think there's like a slightly different,
more, or sorry, less, maybe scary looking orb
as well to be able to scan with.
Yes, to give people access.
I was looking, it's about 39 tokens right now
and it actually decreases as more people verify.
So the sooner you get out there and scan and provide your biometric data there,
the quicker you get your world tokens, the more world tokens you get.
So it's about $42 to go ahead and do so.
But that was part of the announcement.
They also unveiled two other things, at least two other things yesterday.
The kind of a World Visa card, which allows you to spend directly from the World app and the World wallet.
And just, you know, more adoption of like easily using crypto funds without, you know, the difficulty of using crypto funds, right? You just kind of tap
your card at any merchant and it rectifies itself on its own. And then also I saw like a couple
handful of other mini app stuff that they're doing. It's like Kalshi is live in the world's
mini app stuff. If you want to do prediction marketing things, there was a fun, they're doing
some stuff with match group, like match.com that owns Tinder and all the other,
or at least some of the bigger,
like social dating apps,
to allow users in,
in Japan,
to use world ID,
which is kind of what you're verifying for,
right?
You use the world ID to verify their age and stuff,
in Japan,
you know, just additional little things,
you know, in practice, I've said before the show, in practice, like the ability to verify your identity, your humanity, that authenticity, that level of transparency. And, you know, this
is what world is backing on a little bit is that like, it's going to become increasingly important
as you have AI producing so much stuff and the realistic nature of the stuff that it's producing. So in
practice, I totally get it. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, I think we've, we've seen this
topic of using blockchain and its transparency to validate and verify data and information
as a real world use case. So I'm totally with that. The scary part though is like,
and I can't speak to the technical risk or anything here,
is like you are putting your eyeball in this little thing.
And it's sort of-
It's so dystopian.
It is.
And offering up that biometric scan.
Do you want this guy holding this device up to your face?
The answer is no.
That's a hard no.
As much as their product does make sense.
The Believe app, one of their projects that just launched yesterday,
it creates virtual creators for brands
to cut from the KOLs that you all love on your timeline. They're creating
virtual AI-based KOLs. Those are fake people, right? So this is how you can verify who's real
and who's fake. It's going to be harder and harder to see. So the use case makes sense,
but I don't want this guy jamming his phone into my face. Yeah. And the other hard part is, and I'm sure World will continue to fight this battle of, it needs to continue to fight the battle of messaging why it's safe.
I can't articulate that message right now.
I'm not equipped to do so.
Sam Altman and others, I'm sure, can try to do so.
But if you want major adoption here, that is a massive hurdle in getting people to let you scan their eyeballs, which is an important way to unlock devices, all sorts of things.
Getting over that.
My parents, I can't imagine.
My mom's skeptical about everything to begin with, but there's no way I could ever onboard a single boomer i can't think of a single boomer
that i could onboard to world coin i don't know if i could onboard many of like any of my existing
friends to world coin yeah on this token the token is interesting right so it it's down 75
or more than 70 like 80 80%, 86% from peak,
starting to curl up a little bit here,
turning at a dollar,
but that's a 10,
$11 billion FDV.
We know there's still massive unlocks on this thing,
which I think is why a lot of folks have aborted it.
But the narrative of this is the token,
this is open ai's token
it's also pretty strong right and you get to buy it at 1.4 billion dollar market cap
i don't know if i if i had to bet right now on this thing being higher in three years
or lower i'm probably betting higher. What side are you on?
I think higher.
Yeah, higher than $1.07.
I can see that.
I was like, I'm oblivious to some of the things that WorldCoin obviously has been doing.
As I mentioned, I can't articulate its case
for why you should scan beyond the validating identity and humanity stuff.
But like some of those little things about the Tinder use case, whatever,
like those are real world things where I actually do think you could start to get real world users.
And as you know, to the open AI crossover, of course, it's a distinct entity.
But there's a lot here that I think it can open the gates to a lot
of AI development, a lot of app development that maybe is much harder to integrate. The rest of
crypto is much more difficult to integrate with. I don't know. Developers would have to tell me if
their world coin in the world app has a leg up, but there's a world, no pun intended, where I
could see that being the case yeah the tinder use case
you want to date real verified people also we need the apps that are just ai because we've got
a growing portion of the human base right now who is going after the the virtual girlfriends
and boyfriends uh and that seems to be on the rise well Well, folks, I took us through a few of the headlines. We're going to have a conversation here with an old friend, those who may remember back from the lucky lead days, the spaces that we were running ahead of our combination with FOMO hour. Emily loves crypto. It's been quite some time. How are you doing?
All right. Did you guys miss me yes every day
every single day since we've done the show you know can't have that much excitement right
but how are you how have you been uh you know just uh grinding along doing my doing my thing working on my company we well we kind of caught up with that yesterday but
i guess there's been a little bit of controversy on the timeline around you know the the very ip
bullish crowd in crypto twitter uh apparently ip only extends to uh, not so much content. So, yeah, it's been interesting.
We've been building along, getting patents,
making partnerships, making products for businesses
that you don't really hear of.
I mean, I think part of the reason that my company
never got to be a big name out there
is mostly because we, are you looking at my,
why are you looking at my feed? Because we never dropped a coin, but yeah, anyways.
No, so I want to, let's start with maybe some of the background. So let's talk about
Foolproof Labs, what it was, you've been building it for quite some time.
It is, it time. It is.
It is.
It is.
Okay.
So Full Proof Labs is a company that I founded, co-founded in 2022 with another engineer that's in the space,
Squivo, and he launched a ton of stuff as well.
stuff as well. But basically, you know, we, it was, it was around the time that people were
talking a lot about theft. It was kind of the, the tail end of that, I don't know, maybe second
wave of major onboarding where we were getting a lot of new people, spaces were going off nonstop
and people were just getting like absolutely wrecked left and right.
And he had this idea of how to prevent this from happening with smart contracts,
especially because people were using things like token gating,
which is essentially a really primitive version of like role-based access control.
So we talked about this idea he had and we decided to fully flesh it out, build it and kind of complete a security suite.
And once we got those things into like proof of concept levels, everybody was talking about, everyone was talking about IP and how IP is so valuable. So we were like, we can get IP and we filed a patent on it.
And that was like back we can get IP. And we filed a patent on it. And that was like
back in September 2022. And, you know, since I guess in the early days, I was really focused on
trying to get projects to adopt the technology. The shadow token was the first thing that we really
put out there. We rebranded it later to the foolproof token, but that was like meant to be a very easy to adopt
product. You could use it for free from us. It was a one click deploy. You just map it to your
smart contract. Um, and it does a lot of really neat things and supports things like, um, automated,
automated cancellations based on triggers and also subscription payments and things like that.
Um, but it allows you to separate out your profile elements into a separate wallet.
So that's kind of what the primary use case was initially.
And we just didn't get much traction doing that.
So we kind of pivoted a bit and started creating more extended products for deeper use cases,
more extended products for deeper use cases, things like gaming and your profile online
moderation score. Are you a good online citizen or a bad online citizen? And can we represent that
based on this kind of automation of triggers on your behaviors? And that's something that we're
still building in the background. But we got, we got notification like early last month, I guess, that our patent had been
approved.
All of our claims have been accepted.
It went through with zero litigation.
It's called like first, first action approval, I think.
And that's going to be, you you know in case someone wants to try to
litigate against us because then there's no like mess that they can pick apart and pick up on um
normally that doesn't happen normally it's it's kind of like a like a 10 or less of patents that
go through get first action approval um yeah so we were pretty excited about it and then i announced it and i guess that uh triggered
some people so so that's the background so like what's been happening in this past week or so
since the announcement because like i've been seeing it on my timeline a bit but i don't know
that i've got the full story so i want to hear you know your side yeah you bet so like early on we were pretty present we had
like spaces running and we had um i reached out to i don't know probably 50 or 60 of the major
nft projects out there even in like my old decks you can see like these big grids where it's like
you've lost over five million dollars in assets from your discord are you sure you don't want to
have this in there just as a way to like,
not have people connect in their wallet? And I don't know, I guess, whatever.
So we, we used to do like a time spaces,
reached out to a ton of companies had for NFC projects, I guess,
I had meetings with all sorts of people. And for the most part,
we just got things like, Oh, it's not a good time for us now.
And you know, the majority of those projects had faded away.
And, yeah, but there was a good amount of people who actually, like, knew us at the time and what we were trying to achieve.
But it's, you know, the tech goes far, far beyond just that initial use case, really.
It's a lot more extensive.
So what you had just flashed a screen up is a model that we call immutable control.
And the idea is that a company has the ability to centralize their permission issuance while maintaining a decentralized record.
So you can see who has been given permission. And if that permission's been revoked and, you know, what was that trigger,
you can use external things. It could be something like selling your assets, selling a portion of
your assets. If it's a coin is some sort of a lapse or expiration that someone didn't go through
with. It puts a lot of automation on the blockchain is what it comes down to and that's
something that we currently lack honestly um you know you can set up your bots you can you can uh
subscribe to things like cheeto um to you know set up a a set of if this then that style actions
to ensure transaction goes through entirely but, just kind of like baseline automation around permissions and permissioning isn't, isn't there so much. So yeah, we kind of did this a while ago.
You want to look at figure one, if you want to pull up, that's like, this is like the art from
our patent that we filed. Um, I think, I think everything but figure four is relevant to this
patent figure scores for the other two patents that are in our portfolio that we're filing um so yeah it's it's got a lot of it's got a lot of cool things and like the thing
about a patent is that you don't file it on your specific use case you kind of imagine all of the
different use cases you can and file your patent against that and i think that's kind of where the drama started. Yeah. So you built this,
filed a patent and then TLDR, other teams, companies have been effectively using the IP.
Is that the situation? I am one, not a lawyer and two, have not examined them closely, but there's kind of two forms of patent infringement as the first time someone actually infringes and it like is a case, it, um, the, the patents themselves are kind of like dissected or the claims are dissected and reassembled to make, to make like a more, I don't know, understandable version of the patent claims.
And if something is violating the primary claim and the supporting claims and like ours has three primaries and then I don't know, it's 20 claims total.
So three primaries and there's like sub bullets to it.
So if something is violating one claim completely,
that's called a literal infringement.
So if you go through it and you see step by step by step, is it the same thing that, um, yeah, it's infringing. And then there's something
called, um, like the doctrine of equivalence. And this one is a little funkier where it's that if
you didn't necessarily, um, uh, how do I say it? You didn't't you didn't necessarily say literally what they're doing but it's kind of
like a same same same process where if it's the the process is the same function in the same way
and achieves the same result then it's also considered patent infringement so it's like oh
i you know maybe i made this cog a shape, but like you're achieving the same outcome with the same type of process, then that also counts. And I think, I think there is a lot of like, there's a lot of ways to compare that to something like an actual image or art, right? So if you look at a piece of art, and then you look at the pixelated version of a piece of art. You're like, Oh,
I recognize that that's starry night. Right. You're like, whatever it is. And it's like,
at what point is something inspired by, or is something the literal thing itself? And like,
um, I, the, the music side of things is like a deeply complex variation of this.
And there's so many different forms of like production and licensing and like channels
that you have to go through.
I think music in general is probably a lot closer to like a software invention than art
But, um, I don't know, I guess I just, it felt a little funny to have people like be so upset
by like what everyone built entire businesses around in crypto and so like we're talking about
the shadow token that you could just roll down the specific situation here yeah well i mean we
rolled it out in 2022 but um it like i said earlier it just didn't get
that much adoption so we started you know creating these different variations of products um and like
like one of them was actually a demo that we had given to yuga um like i was saying earlier which
is like immutable control model and it was in regards to the the made by apes marketplace where they needed a solution to, um,
to manage the licenses that they were granting.
And I think,
you know,
this is just my interpretation of it.
I think what they were really looking for was a way to constantly,
update licensing agreements with individuals who had apes,
but getting them to agree to the terms as the space evolved which is really
smart that makes a lot of sense right like it's not just a blanket um access you have the ip rights
zero clarifications whatever that's like really problematic if you're a serious company so you
know i i suspect a part of the reason made by eaves exists is because they were trying to
um kind of claw back a little bit of the control and the legal headaches that a company ultimately
faces if they're like yeah do whatever you want and all of a sudden you have like the same image
being printed on diapers and bottles as you do on like weed products. And like, that's,
that's a problem from like a brand perspective. There's like no consistency and there's conflict
of interest. And it's, um, you know, you literally can't put things like cartoons on
cigarettes and liquor. And like, I, you know, there's, there's problems there where it's a
matter of like, who's held accountable. So the, you know, the demo that we gave them was using the immutable control method where
someone could sign their licensing agreement and it would, you know, be valid for a certain
amount of time.
And by signing the agreement, that's what triggered the issuing of, in our case, like
the foolproof token or the shadow token.
And then if they sold their asset, if the asset, you know, the, the ape like transferred out of their wallet, um, if there was a lapse, if they wanted to manually
revoke it because of some sort of infringement that they caught on their side, all of that is
possible with these like shadow tokens, foolproof tokens, but that's just, um, more of like the
moderation side of the use case, but you can see how that's really useful for a brand operating in
an decentralized space. Um, the permissions and stuff are really handy like we have a lot of these
web3 games and you know stream there's there's been plenty of games out there that hire a streamer
to promote their thing or they you know um hire a esports team whatever it is and then there's some
sort of major um you know faux pas that takes place
or like some bad action that happens they're like i don't want to be affiliated with you but they're
like streaming your game they're really popular now your game is affiliated with this like type
of personality and like that's something you have to reverse out of um so yeah that's kind of
i don't know some of the stuff. So, so, so what now?
Like, how are you thinking about moving forward?
Like, do you regret getting the patents?
No, I don't regret it.
But what I have found out actually is that it's a really tricky thing to, it's a tricky
way to, it's a tricky thing to navigate if you don't have a lot of money and
like i think there's a there's kind of like a misnomer in crypto where like oh patents are like
the antithesis of crypto but like literally every major crypto firm out there has tons and tons and
tons of patents filed in crypto and also there is it's really interesting actually to watch companies that are not quite immersed in crypto issuing patents or um applying for patents so like ebay and paypal
have applied for dozens of them i think coinbase has over a thousand of them um i could have it
might be hundreds i have i'm out of the wrong i forgot i got them confused but like every single
one of these major companies like um finance and kraken and crypto.com and also
services like fireblocks and circle and like all of these major companies that we're used to dealing
with that are like really doing this and even like you know visa and a lot of the major banks
like all these custodial services all of them have like enormous patent portfolios so it like
it felt super strange to have people i don't know like react react so negatively i'm
like what this literally literally deal with like patented products every single day i don't know
what you're talking about here but like what i found out is that you um need to be extremely rich
to defend what you own um so so what can happen is like from my perspective i could like send
an email to someone and be like, Hey, um,
why don't you come to the table with me?
It looks like your product may benefit from a license of our patent. Right.
And if they get an email from me, they're gonna be like, nah, whatever. Bye. Um,
because it's like not a serious threat. But the thing about, um,
the thing about that is like the next step would be to issue something like a
cease and desist where it's like, you're using this without a license.
I'm requesting that you don't do it.
Otherwise, we're going to take you to court, right?
But if you launch a smart contract and the smart contract doesn't have any sort of a shutdown function, it's not going away, right?
Because it's like, they either need to just pay the license
fee or they're going to, uh, counter sue you, or I guess they'll sue you and they'll say,
Oh, we're not actually infringing your patent.
Prove it.
Right.
And for a lot of companies out there, they could afford to, um, you know, stomp me to
the ground for as long as they feel like to the point that i can't fight anything
anymore and then if they sue me and win um and i'm forced to liquidate they would just like the
most valuable thing that we have is patents they would just end up with it anyways which is like
bad it's that's like really lame because it costs a lot of money like i used a top absolutely top
tier attorney,
who's like a patent attorney. And like, that's a very unique subset of law. And he used to be
a software engineer. So I was like, oh, this guy is the person who's going to be able to understand
this. Perfect. And like, we had a bunch of really interesting discussions about the concept of like
patents on the blockchain. Like one of them was when the time came around where it's like do i want to pay and maintain the fees um
you ought to pay and maintain the fees around um an international patent which is i don't know
something like fifteen thousand dollars a year um or like the nature of blockchain, which is that it's,
it's literally inescapable.
Sorry,
my partner wants to text me right now.
Yeah.
So like it's the,
the nature of the blockchain is that like,
it's going to get validated worldwide.
Right.
And the thing about software is like,
if anybody buys it,
if it's stored,
if any function of the software happens on American soil, then that means that patent
is fully defensible. Right. So, um, or that, that software license, that infringement is
fully defensible. So like, I didn't feel that I had to get it internationally. It felt that
getting it just in America was announced in the USPTO is a really strong office, but because there's likely to be a transaction that's validated on US soil,
if this software is used, it's, it's basically infallible. Um, so it's, it's kind of impossible
to, it's impossible to deny when it comes to having a patent of this type so like
if it's traditional software what you could do is just like not house any of it on american soil
like say it's a it's a chinese company right they just wouldn't house any of it on american soil and
they wouldn't sell to american customers yet but because it's the blockchain any country around the world that wants to use anything of this nature um is basically inevitably going to infringe on an american version of the patent so
it's yeah it's it's like a complex thing but it's really interesting um in that regard and like
ultimately ultimately like if you infringe it you owe the owner of the patent a license fee there is no two ways about
it um you know our strategy for pursuing that is not something that we're gonna like broadly
discuss at this point but um it's it's kind of undeniable and i'm not um yeah i'm not gonna
litigate it because that's like definitely not my area of expertise but
yeah we we did we ultimately built a sister company um that's in charge of generating the
revenue but also um separates the ip itself from other business that we have to like create a
shelter around it got it well that makes. This is a really interesting situation.
And I think one of the first I personally have seen
follow along with blockchain and patents.
And it makes so much sense conceptually,
but then you see the in-operation here.
And unfortunately, it's getting messy.
I mean, it hasn't, right?
It's just like people
oh that's my fidget um it's just people uh i don't know having this like visceral reaction
to intellectual property and i just like found it really ironic right because there's like it
is like the number one theme that we have never escaped from as far as like nfts and stuff go
they're like oh my ip is so strong i'm gonna
pay hundred thousand dollars for this five hundred thousand dollars for this for like ip and it's
like okay cool right i'm so happy for you and your ip i can't wait to see what you build with it
and then like i i come around and like i my entire career has been in software and like
building software and
licensing agreements and SAS products.
And I'm like,
look,
I have IP too.
And they're like,
not that kind of IP.
That's bad.
Get out of here with your IP.
Like what?
Like my,
my IP is like filed with like the top tier authority.
Yours is a picture on the internet.
And the bunch of them just got like a erased because someone forgot to pay their bill.
Like what are you talking about?
Yeah.
I'm with you.
So yeah.
Anyways,
beyond that,
we basically like took our,
took our IP and built a bunch of other companies and products for it that
are like,
you know,
since we like to talk about real world assets,
we've got something like a five and a half billion dollar art portfolio
coming on chain that we're using a lot of the foolproof technology for.
And yeah, I did like a lot of them.
I talked to a lot of people who had, you know, worked at like Sotheby's and Christie's before because they have like crypto related programs.
And I guess the way that crypto programs really got in there is it's like somebody, somebody inherits a major art collection from some member of their family and they have like this pet project where they're like, we's being put on chain um or the the programs that exist
out there they and when i say art i mean like um physical art not like um digital art so that
a lot of that art that's being put on chain is like they they put a max value on it of like
thirteen thousand dollars and they're worried about their risk i guess around that cost so um
yeah like we're we're putting like are worth tens of millions of dollars on
chain. And there's a lot of really interesting side effects of that where it's like, Oh,
can you create liquidity around a liquid asset? Can you put it in a free port? Can it be a tax
haven? Like all of these types of things. And then, you know, who is interested in owning a
share of something that's really expensive where the share would also be really, really, really expensive.
But it's not,
you know, the entire worth of a company type of type of thing.
So there's a lot of stuff going on in that regard.
And I just like,
I don't know.
I forgot people were paying attention to us because I like,
I never tweet on that account.
Like I'm mostly,
I'm bad at trading.
We've talked about this before.
I'm mostly here to like,
yeah,
I'm really bad at trading. I've talked about this before. Um, I'm mostly here to like, yeah, I'm really bad at trading.
I'm always right in the end though.
but,
yeah,
like I just,
I'm here to like,
make cool things and see where the trends were going and like what other
people are making too.
And you know,
like shitpost along the way.
And like,
of course,
I guess it's like,
yeah,
that's like not a thing.
So I was,
I don't know.
I kind of like accepted our fate that like the initial insular community was not going to be
the people who adopt this technology and like ultimately the technology is adopted at a much
higher level um and it is pervasive um which is why we're really happy we have the patent on it
because you know we're protecting ourselves we have the patent on it because you know we're
protecting ourselves we're protecting like our future really to gain um in leverage in the space
and um yeah we've we kind of like i don't know the company is just like in stealth mode and i like
put it what i thought was like a good exciting exciting announcement on here. Of course. That's how CT works.
People got so upset.
Like, okay.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I like leveraged my entire nest egg to build a company by myself because I couldn't fundraise because I wasn't dropping a shit coin.
My bad.
Next time you start the shit coin.
We've got new launchpads that make that easy as of this morning.
Well, it's been good.
Oh, good God.
That tokenomics gave me acid reflux.
I don't know how to talk about self cannibalizing yourself.
Anyways.
Well,
Emily,
it's been good to catch up.
Congrats on the patent.
Sorry.
The situation's been a little messy,
but excited to hear about your new use cases getting into the digital art
world.
So there's cool stuff out there.
Yeah.
We'll have to continue this conversation
sometime in the future.
Definitely be interested to hear more
about how things are going.
It was good to catch up.
You too.
Thanks for joining us here this morning.
With the faces too. This is new for us.
Yeah. Not just talking over the phone.
Over breakfast.
This is more stable though.
Yes. A bit more stable.
Thank you for joining us. That is going to be
our show here today. I want to thank
our listeners as always. Thank our partner.
Thank Emily for joining us. We'll be back
tomorrow to close out the week. Sir Gito
is going to be stopping by
to talk markets and me bits.
You're going to want to tune in for that one.
As for today, go make it
a great day.
