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FOMO HOUR: Markets, COIN ATH and China Trade Deal
Recorded: June 27, 2025 Duration: 1:01:39Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the latest trends in the market, including Coinbase's stock surge, the emergence of new billion-dollar crypto treasury companies, and the anticipated impacts of upcoming legislative changes. The conversation also touched on the evolving landscape of partnerships and innovations in the crypto space, highlighting both growth opportunities and challenges for altcoins.
Full Transcription
Thank you. GM, GM, everyone.
Thanks for joining us here this morning.
We're going to start the show in just a minute.
We're still getting our speakers up on stage while we wait.
Some shout-outs.
Cyber Nomad, GM, Burnett, CJ. Fictional. The Rect Row.
GM fellows. McNutt.
The homie. Love to see you in here.
Who else we got? Goku.
Cuevas. Garcia.
Crab. GM.
GM. It's Brian. Always good to see you,
my friend. DMACC. Lazy.
Blind Gray. Alright. Googly.
I see you, Googly. Thanks for joining us.
Luca. Lay. GM. GM.. I see you, Googly. Thanks for joining us. Luca Le.
G-M-G-M.
All right. We got Logan up here.
Still waiting on a handful of the accounts, but we're six minutes past the hour.
Sims, whenever you're ready.
Let's kick it. Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to another episode of FOMO Hour. Today is Friday, June 27th, 2025.
And folks, it was in fact joyful June,
just not for our magic internet money, for stocks.
A China trade deal supposedly done,
more peace potentially in the Middle East,
and the stock market is loving it,
finding new all-time highs here again this morning.
And yet our crypto coins just continue to chop and go sideways and now
we're asking will it be a joyful july we're gonna break it all down on today's show no faroke
maybe they're gonna be stopping by but we've got stats in the house along with logan stats jim
how you doing what's up man how you doing doing great even uh even now. Happy that we were able to convince you to come on.
Oh, yeah. No, I mean, we discussed it Tuesday, and I'm in when I'm in. You know that.
I love that. We got to talk about, is Donald Trump going to win the Nobel Peace Prize in 2025?
That's the hottest question on my mind this morning. So I'm very curious for your thoughts on that.
Logie, thanks for being with us all week, my friend.
Jim, how are you doing?
Of course.
Yeah, good morning.
I'm doing well.
Temperature's finally dropping, but bringing the market down with them here in PA.
So I don't know.
Feels like it's okay.
Long week, beautiful week for the most part.
I can't complain too much.
You know, it might have been one of those first 30 minute shakeouts because
we did dip, I think, Bitcoin down to 1066, but now we're already back up. Folks, we got Mando on
with us as well here this morning. Mando, GM, how are you doing? Hey, guys. Fantastic. How are you?
Doing great, folks. We have a full house. I'm excited for today's show as we look to wrap up
the week. What are we talking about? We're going to start with the market report. This China trade
deal supposedly done,
perhaps peace with Gaza in the next two weeks.
Stock's at all-time high.
Big moves in rate cutouts this morning as well.
We'll talk about that.
Coinbase stock hitting a new all-time high yesterday
on the back of their perps.
Crypto perhaps in 401ks.
I want to talk about that in some recent polling I did.
We've got two new $1 billion crypto treasury companies in the past 24 hours.
That's not slowing down.
I want to talk about David Sachs saying it's going to be a big July.
Ledger Nano S being phased out.
A bit of a surprise.
Has InfoFi gone too far?
And a lot more.
Before we dive into it, shout out to our partners starting with Wallet Connect.
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We got into this yesterday, big news out of Kraken this week.
They launched the new Kraken app.
It is their global payments app competing with Venmo, PayPal, and more with a crypto twist.
So go check that out as well. All right. We've got a lot to get into.
Oh, yeah. I didn't mention two Yeet winners today. It's Fort Corn Friday. I buried the lead.
We will do double winners here and do a coin race at the end of the show.
So we're always excited about that. Mando, if you're ready, let's get into it.
GM everyone. So yeah, I think a bit of just a stable day if I'm honest I was trying to look through news
that was really moving the market
Bitcoin did head
like I think all the way up to about
108k yesterday and then
and then touched I think close
to 106k
but it's been relatively stable
I would say
in terms of altcoin movers again it's been relatively stable, I would say. In terms of altcoin movers, again, it's been mixed, I would say.
Again, Say is seemingly having a good day.
But in terms of Bitcoin, Solana, ETH, most of them are kind of unchanged on the day again.
Haven't really seen any great outperformance by anyone.
Although altcoins have felt a little bit better, I would say, on the whole
than they had been feeling.
That's a decent sign.
I think the main story here, though, is just
that the focus seems to be on crypto stocks.
And it's not just crypto. There's
been big moves in some robotic stocks
and some AI stocks, but
it feels as though Coinbase hitting an all-time
high is probably the biggest news of the day. Because I think a lot of as though Coinbase hitting an all-time high is probably the biggest news
of the day because I think a lot of people consider Coinbase almost like a major at this stage.
And I think it's taking some of the focus away from altcoins, from just the crypto markets in
general, even in a period where we continue to see decent inflows into ETF products
kind of across the board.
But yeah, Coinbase being up 20% over the last five days,
that's a pretty big move if you consider that kind of like a major,
so to speak.
And that's obviously on the back of the big move in Robin Hood stock and Circle
and decent moves in some of the miners too.
So, yeah, it's just interesting to see that this narrative is back.
They are all down a little bit today.
So, Homebase and Circle both down just like about 5%, 6% today.
So, coming back off the highs,
but that is the focus, I think,
of the majority of the market.
Yeah, I think that is fair.
A bit surprising to see that Coinbase move.
I'll get into it in a minute.
A few macro headlines that I did see,
and I'm curious for your thoughts,
and maybe pull stats into this as well.
So we got kind of surprise soundbite news out of Trump yesterday
that they officially signed a deal with China.
And he said it was done a couple of days ago.
So I thought that was fairly noteworthy.
Yeah.
I think we also saw some talk of rate cuts
we also saw
there was a different comment that
they're talking about
that Trump and Netanyahu agreed to
hostilities in Gaza within two weeks
and expand these Abraham Accords
so that felt like fairly big
as well though
it's widely spread
there were definitely a few macro
headlines yesterday.
Like you said, it was
this story that we could be getting
a deal out of China and the US.
I saw Trump mention it. I saw a couple of officials
mention this
had been done, but maybe not all the
details. It seems as though there's going to be some
tariffs left in place, but
they're going to be less than what they have been. I don't know what all the side deals are for something like
that, but that's in place. And then, yeah, I think it seems very likely again that we're going to get
a September rate cut. There's been some talk about that, some slightly weaker data coming out of the jobs market, which I think allows them to do that.
Sorry, folks.
Looks like...
Yeah.
I very much, as we spoke about on the show earlier this week,
I very much expect a push for now,
a broader ceasefire,
that's peace deal across the Middle East.
I think that will be in reach.
I've got some reactions to that.
I'm looking at the rate cut odds here first.
So just last week, it was at 30% chance to hold rate cuts steady in September,
and now that's down to 9%.
So that's pretty substantial. We're at 90% chance of one or two cuts in September, and now that's down to 9%. So that's pretty substantial.
We're at 90% chance of one or two cuts in September.
So that's heavily favored.
And then I was looking at just the end of year,
and it's 80% or 89% chance, or 99% chance rather,
of at least one cut.
We've got 45% chance now of three.
That is a pretty significant move in that market. It was at
just 27%
last week.
What do you make of this
Coinbase versus hype
situation?
Do you think Coinbase
is now
there's a lot of, oh, you know, Coinbase is about to
take over. I saw some stuff about
the tax benefits of using coinbase um yesterday but at the same time like we've seen this before with like big product
launches and coinbase doesn't necessarily uh do that well obviously people remember coinbase nfts
but even you know coinbase international futures is not a huge bit of the market. Or at least their PERP product is not a huge bit of the market.
Do you think this is one of a big headline?
Do you think people will use it more than maybe the market's expecting?
Do you think it's bad for Pipe Liquid?
And then do you think...
No, I guess those are the two main ones it kind of feels slightly like the pump fun
headlines for me now it's like an overhang
until the end of July
where like
hype has been this amazing trade
and now people have a reason to be
maybe slightly
bearish on it
I mean I haven't sold the hype that I bought on that bounce,
on that dip, sorry, but it does make me think
that it's not going to hit all-time high before the end of July,
and that makes me think that it could get beaten down.
I don't know. What's your read on it, Tyler?
I think that's fair. I think my, my gut read is that the user base that's using trading perps
on hyper liquid is not at risk to move over to Coinbase. And then I think you can even paint a
bull case that Coinbase will perhaps grow the broader perps pie and get more
folks into this market. I think that's a little bit more of a stretch for me right now. I don't
know who is the marginal user who is interested in perps, but just hasn't been doing it over the
last five years because it wasn't offered in their Coinbase account.
But I guess maybe you can make the argument that they just aren't familiar with what it is.
I've heard some chatter about more traditional traders who just do options and they see perps and their eyes open super wide.
Like, wow, this is awesome.
Stats, maybe I'll listen to you.
You've got more of a background in finance.
I'm curious for your thoughts if you think there will be hunger for this product.
I mean, I think there will be.
I personally, I don't know.
I haven't done deep into the data or whatever.
But I just see hype as such a different product and audience than Coinbase.
And maybe that's stupid.
I just kind of associate it more with the people who kind of live online or who kind of live in Web3 versus Coinbase, which is just, you know, kind of a gateway for
the United States consumer into crypto and just feels like a different audience. I think
I can see a world where you start seeing a lot more people trading perps because of Coinbase.
I can see a world where you start seeing a lot more people trading perps because of Coinbase.
But I have a hard time seeing that as some big overhang for Hyperliquid.
They strike me as pretty different markets, which more competition is never a good thing.
Don't get me wrong.
But it wasn't the first thing that jumped to mind for me.
I guess it does.
You do have to factor in their growth.
So, like, what are their growth?
What is Hyperliquid's growth?
Yeah, from here.
Especially if you – the other overhang, and I'll see if I can pull this up,
is Robinhood teased a pretty big announcement coming on Monday.
a pretty big announcement coming on Monday.
And if they're going to throw their hat in this ring,
does that make this even more potentially crowded?
Yeah, to catch a token, a moment in crypto,
you won't want to miss live stream on Monday at 11 a.m. Eastern.
Interesting. What does this mean, you think?
Yeah, and this is coupled with that promotion
they're doing for depositing crypto, right?
It's kind of pre-leading into this a little bit.
Yeah, quick side.
So quickly, Robinhood is going on the offensive,
on the offense of trying to get users
to deposit crypto on their app.
2% deposit match or any crypto
deposited on their app and held for a year. You do have to look at the fine print. The fine print
makes it seem, A, you can't touch it. You can't withdraw it within that year. And they can claw
it back if the amount deposited goes down in the year.
So I interpreted that.
I mean, you could make an interpretation that if Bitcoin drops 2% in the next 12 months, that perhaps you lose that deposit.
So I think maybe do your own research on that specific deposit match before you go and move all your balances over.
But clearly, I think the higher signal is they're going after it.
They're going after it right now.
What do I think this is?
If I had to guess, I think I would probably guess perps.
Oogie, what do you think?
I was going to say Robinhood meme coin, but that was just a joke.
I actually don't have any clue.
This email hit inboxes earlier this week, something that I flagged to pay attention to.
Didn't really dig far beyond.
And of course, coupled with that announcement regarding the deposits.
Perps, I think, is a good guess.
I could see maybe like a lending type thing.
You know, they're asking for deposits.
They're trying to get your crypto on the app.
Like I would imagine it's tied in some way to that.
That's my guess.
Like what types of things?
Yeah,
I don't,
I don't know.
To catch a token.
It doesn't feel like perps to me.
Like just,
if I was,
and then this,
this put on our, I'm the marketing agency
that's done this campaign
to catch a token
where else could it possibly be
maybe it's a token launchpad
to catch a token
and I'm kind of reacting to this live here
for the first time I saw this and I didn't have a chance to really think
through it ahead of the show
is it some sort of like you know the token is some sort of reward?
You know, is that just,
this is just additional stuff on top of the deposits thing?
That would be kind of lame, but.
Fictional in our comments is saying to catch a token equals to catch a perp.
That's an interesting analogy,
throwing back from some of those TV shows that we had.
Oh, it's in the lake.
To catch a predator.
Yes, exactly.
Well, maybe.
Maybe Chris Hansen is going to come out
and launch the Robinhood platform.
Let's kind of pull this back a bit.
Tokenized stock stuff?
Or no?
Tokenized stocks?
Yeah, it could be possible.
Why do you need tokenized stocks on Robinhood?
You can just buy stocks for free.
I don't know.
What's the advantage?
Easier to transfer off the Robinhood platform,
but I can buy any stock on Robinhood for free right now.
Yeah, probably not that one.
Stash, do you have a read on just like the broader... Tokenized stocking is a solution in need of a problem.
I mean, maybe there's some there
there when it comes to international folks or people who don't have access to all these platforms
or whatever but like trading stocks in america is literally yeah i don't know i'm happy to take
the other side of that one i actually think i think we're seeing this this larger trend right now is just blurring the lines between crypto and TradFi.
And being able to do all of these different types of financial transactions in one place.
And whether that your home base is on chain, soon you're going to be able to do everything on chain. Or if your home base is within these Robinhood style apps
or even your home bank,
soon you're going to be able to do
just about everything there as well.
And I think I said on the show the other day,
I've actually got more free capital and liquidity
to play with on chain sometimes
than I do with like the bank account.
So sometimes it actually is interesting for me to be able to,
to actually flip profits from a meme coin into a tokenized stock trade versus having to go through other routes.
So I actually do see a demand for that, but perhaps more niche.
Can I add two little things to this that for my perspective, one,
they've led with a central uh eastern or whatever
that is summertime central european summertime is that correct and uh in early may a bloomberg
report indicated that robin hood was planning to uh they were investigating right expressing
interest in tokenizing securities uh on the ethereum blockchain why why would they lead with
the european time here?
That's what I was saying. I think there are some users, like,
for us, and maybe not all of us, I mean, I think Tyler's point is right. Like, there are people who just kind of keep their finances
on a ledger, or on Metamask, or wherever they keep
their finances, on chain.
But, you know, and what I led with is like, yeah, I mean,
to a European, it's probably a lot harder to buy
a circle stock
than it is for me, who has a
Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, and Active Broker
account, and Robinhood,
where I can literally buy any stock
for free at any moment.
But yeah, I think the idea
of international holders or
to Tyler's point, maybe a new generation of folks who just kind of make on chain their hub.
Maybe there's maybe there's some use case there.
Still stand by the idea that for Robinhood, it makes no sense because it is extremely easy to buy any stock on Robinhood in a way that the only thing tokenization would do is make it easier to
take your money off of Robinhood. And they're paying 2% to all their customers to move their
money onto Robinhood. So that strikes me. I mean, they're literally saying, if you move your 401k
here, 100 grand, we will give you two grand of free money. So it just seems like a product whose
only use case would be to help people get money off of Robinhood
doesn't feel like something
they'd be prioritizing.
Logan, one thing I think you did point out that
probably is a good clue. So this
is during ETHCANs.
ETHCANs is next week.
It starts
on Monday. Only Tyler even knows that that exists.
There's like a conference every week.
I only know that it exists because my wife was just in Cannes.
So I've been following.
Is NFT NYC happening this week?
Is that right?
I think so.
I actually don't know the actual answer to that.
I think people are in New York City around this time.
Someone said, oh, you're going to be in NYC.
I was like, what's for what?
Oh, NFT NYC. I was like, what's for what? Oh, NFT NYC.
I was like, I had just forgotten that that was even happening.
Well, Permissionless did happen in NYC this week,
which is a bigger conference.
And then I think NYC.
There are too many conferences.
I don't know how people go to all these.
Or I guess something more seriously.
I don't know how there go to all these. Or I guess something more seriously, I don't know how there can be compelling content
for attendees at all these conferences
when they're running them out multiple per month.
Things just don't,
like we're in a fairly accelerated time period
for crypto right now.
I don't know there's that much,
many speeches or topics you can give
to capture an audience's attention on a week-over-week basis.
At least that's my quick tangent.
But we will see what comes out on Monday and if it's going to pump our ETH bags.
Because I do think, Logan, you're right.
There is some ETH component to this, if I had to bet.
So we'll have more info on Monday.
I want to pull us back to some of the intro.
And Stas, I'm curious for this question.
Mando, I'm curious for your answer to this as well as someone not in the U.S.
So Trump is five months in, approaching his first six-month report card.
We have potentially a trade deal with China.
We have potentially peace in the Middle East.
What grade are you giving him?
Six months in.
It's a good question.
I think you kind of have to be objective here
and say that a lot of the things that he was elected on have either taken longer or don't seem like they're necessarily going to happen.
So the fiscal conservatism kind of feels like it's out the window at this stage, right?
Like 10 years gone higher.
He's introduced a bill which has increased budget deficit.
Doge is kind of dead now.
So like that bit of it,
which I always thought was like the bit that was most likely to fall by the
wayside.
It feels like it's slightly fallen by the wayside on the,
on the wards and peace.
Like I think the last week was really helped the credibility around like a
path for that now.
And like maybe by the end of the summer,
you get deals both in
russia ukraine and in the middle east and that would be um i think considered like a big win
although potentially how he got there clearly um you know split some of his base
and then on the immigration stuff it's just become like, it's very, very clear, like your ability to deport people.
Like that's the case for any country, right?
A lot of politicians around the world come in and say, hey, we're going to start deporting people.
Normally it costs like hundreds of thousands of dollars to deport like one person.
This is what people don't understand when politicians get
get um get elected for this sort of stuff it's not it's not some like super easy thing to do
and you have to work out where they're going to go um so i i always felt like that was never
really going to happen but um it does feel at least not in the scale that i think
that that was maybe he was elected under the, but it does feel like there's maybe been a change in some of the policies around there on an ongoing basis.
So going forward, you might see some changes there.
So if that's what you voted for, I think that he's done well on some things.
Other things have become more difficult and are clearly going to be more drawn out and caught up in bureaucracy and he and he's kind of actually drifted away pretty hard from the fiscal
conservatism side which which won over i think a large part large bit of the like the billionaire
class that kind of that kind of came close to him with with elon right there was this idea that
we're going to make we're going to we're going to turn the U.S. government into a tech firm
and we're going to cut the blow, all that sort of stuff.
That's kind of fallen by the way.
I think that's fair.
Stas, do you have a take?
I mean, I think the things out there,
the China deal is a fabricated problem.
I feel like bombing Iran and then having peace in two days and saying I'm the peace president feels fabricated.
So I don't think these are like big W's.
I mean, the stuff he went out on a limb on, like Ukraine and Russia is going to be over on day one.
It's like it was not hard to know that this is a multi-decade long ethnic conflict.
not hard to know that this is a multi-decade long ethnic conflict. So the fact that he was
blindsided by the fact that this is much more difficult than end on day one is something that
I think anybody could have told you six months ago. But yeah, I mean, you bomb Iran and then
you declare peace and say you're the peace president. I mean, Israel has basically tattered
Palestine to shreds. The minute Netanyahu decides it's over, it's over.
And I think Mando's point,
at least the people I know
who are kind of the most in the Trump camp were so
because they thought of fiscal conservatism.
And that doesn't feel like it's something
that is on the table anymore.
It feels like we're spending a lot.
I feel like the deficit's going to be just as expanded this year as it was under Biden. Despite prosperity, I wouldn't say that
this is a time of insane conflict. I mean, if your goal was to make it so there were no more
illegal immigrants who ever entered this country, then I think you see what he's done as a huge win.
If your goal was continuation of what's been a 20-year stock market rally, I think you see what he's done as a huge win. If your goal was continuation of what's been a 20-year stock market rally,
I think there's been a huge win.
The dollar is down 14% in three months.
So the dollar is getting shattered.
The bond market is kind of predicting longer-term problems
because of the fiscal conservative.
So I don't know.
It just depends on what your personal priorities
or goals were for him.
But I think this whole look at the piece,
look at the trade deals.
I mean, these were fabricated problems in some cases
that I don't think I'm like out here,
you know, that I'm out here going crazy about.
Yeah.
Made for TV deportions. Like, yeah,
like deportations. Like for me, that stuff rubs me the wrong way. I think there's some people who
love seeing undocumented people get taken from the streets and sent to prisons. Like for some
people that really is like what gets their juices flowing. For me, that's not, you know? So I think
a lot of the stuff that's kind of under the scenes, as far as it just kind of depends on your personal bias.
For me, that stuff's pretty hard.
But for other people, that's what makes them happy.
So it's hard for me to sit here and tell if someone else would.
Yeah, I think fairly objective takes.
Hard to argue with any of those.
I seem to agree.
I think one aspect we haven't talked about was crypto specifically, which I think is a little bit easier to give him a positive rating on.
Well, with the asterisk that his personal family dealings could be the biggest risk facing the industry. But I don't think I'm not a big like I think the crypto stuff is good.
Like, yes, like we have an administration that clearly cares a lot about normalizing crypto.
I think that the question is, what, what, how does this play out over two to three
years? I think to me, the meme coin that he launched was quite negative. I just think it
kind of made a mockery of the space a little bit. It made a mockery of him, in my view.
It's a lot of like just corruption that is just so gatewayed via that. But I do think like, yeah,
from a perspective of, do you feel much more comfortable building in crypto in America?
No question.
Do you feel much more comfortable that the IRS is less likely to come after you?
I'd say probably you're feeling pretty good about that.
A lot of this stuff, do you feel like if you're cyberkongs that the SEC is going to come in?
I think a lot of the stuff that really kept people up at night is no
longer a thing. And that, that stuff is certainly positive for the space.
No question.
Do we have any predictions?
Do we have any predictions for the big month of July that,
that David Sachs is now teasing?
David Sachs sounds like NFT founder, man.
Having worked for two NFT companies, I've learned to not trust NFT founders. Loomis, Loomis has, man. I've learned not to trust NFT. I haven't worked for two NFT companies.
I've learned not to trust NFT founders.
Loomis has mastered that.
I mean, Trump also is quite good at that.
And Zach is learning clearly.
Yeah.
July will be a big month, folks.
That was the first headline that I saw.
And I thought it ended there.
But then he said, with the bill signing for the Genius Act, in clarity
the market structure bill going to the
Senate.
If it's just those two things, I mean,
I think that's clearly good.
Huge positives. I think
those are also somewhat
expected
at this point. I mean, I think that the rally that we saw
in Circle Stock, the rally we saw in Coin Stock, was largely
on the back of the Genius Act passing the house.
So it feels like something that is priced in.
I said it on yesterday's show.
We talked about it a little bit.
I think the wild card is crypto accumulation.
And when we see any kind of announcements related at least to a plan for that, I think that's where you could get a joyful July scenario.
I think a big question is how long does this treasury thing keep going, right?
Like right now you can raise a hundred million dollars and pay out your
investors, $130 million conservatively in three weeks, you know?
And as long as that's true,
and that is all money that is flowing into crypto and it's money that's flowing into crypto, not because people believe in crypto, but because there's basically an arbitrage out there.
As you said, there's no sign of it slowing down.
I fairly am certain that this will not continue for a long time because it is one of those
things that truly, truly, truly makes no sense to me, but for the fact that there's this
paradigm in the marketplace.
And then the question is, how does that get unwound?
Does it get unwound?
I guess I'll just kind of continue to hold this treasury company because it's just a
good proxy for owning crypto.
Or does it become a thing where they start trading at a discount?
And people are like, well, if it's trading at a discount, we might as well sell the crypto
and pay people back at par and give people free money back.
Like, I mean, Mando suggested there'll be acquisitions.
I kind of wonder about that because if you start acquiring too many of these, eventually
you trade at a discount.
But there is a lot of
money that is flowing into this and it is to me to me this is like i've said this to you tyler i
think there will be a mockumentary about the crazy things that were said during this period to
justify these premiums i still have not heard a single thing that's made any sense with maybe
the exception of sailor and even there i still don it. But yeah. It's a bet on the operator of the speedboat.
Cruising, guiding the boat through the river versus just being at the whims of the current.
That's the thesis.
I haven't seen any evidence that these guys are doing anything other than putting oil in the speedboat and driving.
oil in the speedboat and drive it.
That's something that surprised me.
That's something that surprised me
is that actually the premiums for the Bitcoin
company seem to be higher than the premiums for the
other
L1s, right?
Where you could argue that
they're going to create some form of
recurring income here.
They're going to do something
in DeFi or they're going to do something in
staking or something like that.
That's the thing that's almost surprised
me more. It's been like
Bitcoin premiums are high. And maybe that's
because people think, well, these other assets are trash
and that they all go
lower. But
I agree with you. The equity story
just doesn't make sense. But
what I don't agree with you is
that we're going to come to an end to this.
I actually think
we're going to be doing this for a long time, like at least a year.
Wow.
I mean, a lot.
I will take the other side very wholeheartedly of it.
I think that I'd say within six months, these things stop trading at a room and become untenable.
A lot of things in the market, right?
They're not really untenable though, right?
They just sell the assets.
Exactly.
It just becomes boring.
Well, you start trading at a discount,
then it becomes a wait on crypto
as opposed to a positive.
I think it will be another year of this stuff
before the chickens come to roost
essentially
they'll start to trade at a really bad
discount
if something
systemic hit markets I reckon
and crypto, like if crypto nosedived
to like 70k right now
these things would get slaughtered
they would get
absolutely slaughtered.
But I think you probably have to have a pretty bearish view on crypto
for the chickens to come home to roost here.
I think this really gets exposed badly in the way that you're describing
when, you know, during, like when Sailor's stock traded at discount,
discount, which is like throughout the whole bear market, right?
which is like throughout the whole bear market, right?
I mean, SPACs were the little engine that could and ceased to be during the bull market.
Like eventually there is just too much supply.
And I guess that's part of my bear case on these things is like, as long as these things
trade at a premium, it is so easy to make money that supply will just completely continue to flood the market.
Until even in a bull market, there is just too much.
And the fact that there is absolutely no narrative whatsoever to justify it, I think makes it even harder.
I'm not surprised that it's Bitcoin ones that are doing well, because the reason they're doing well is because Saylor's doing well.
Like these things are doing well because all those decks just say, look at what MicroStrategy's trading in.
Well, that's a Bitcoin company.
If I start buying something else, people are like, well, where's the comp that I can say this is free money with?
And it's because this is all narrative, silly driven.
You know, it's not driven by anything else.
The decks do say that, which is why I laughed.
But I just want to set the stage for our casual listeners who may not have been following this.
This week alone, we've had three $1 billion corporate treasury companies
spun up. And like a dozen
overall at various sizes. But we've got just in the past day,
there's been two. This M3 brigade company, it's from Tether and Blackstone Vets. And then this
digital asset platform, Bact, is raising a billion or selling a billion in securities for a potential
Bitcoin play. On Monday, we had Anthony Pompiano's pro capital
come out at a billion as well.
The pace is accelerating.
It can't keep accelerating from here much though, right?
I feel like I'm in the camp.
I'm somewhere between you two.
I agree with Mando that I could see this going out for a year.
I could actually see it going longer,
but not at this breakneck pace.
Are we going to have multiple $1 billion corporate treasury companies
spinning up per week?
That feels crazy.
It feels frothy right now.
What I think we will see is more what I said to you before,
which is that I think there's a good chance
here that you see more of
the real
bulk of the NASDAQ approach
treasury strategies here
for crypto
not random
ex-hotel company
from Japan
like
you know like if Google microsoft amazon apple decided hey we're going
to put five percent of our corporate treasury um something like that those are the sort of
headlines because you're starting to see the moves in stocks for it and these people are driven by
by stock price uh to a large extent and they a lot of them have a ton of cash,
absurd amounts of cash,
which they find actually quite difficult
do things with.
Mergers are
often difficult. They've just rewrote the buybacks
in recent years.
But I think we're just
by the end of this year, we'll see that for sure.
So are we in agreement
this is bullish for our crypto coins in the near term?
In the longer term is a little still TBD.
You can make the bear case that they'll have to unwind at some point.
Yeah, it makes the bear market worse for sure.
This is leverage by way of, like, or this is
stat says, these aren't long-term holders.
Like, the people
doing the financing here are in for a quick
buck, and that will
mean that when they start trading a
discount, they'll just be like, yeah, let's just sell
the Bitcoin, right?
Are they destroying our chances at an alt season
this is the net marginal dollar that's flowing into these treasury companies
taking away i don't know what alts you want to buy but i look through so many alts at the moment
i've actually been looking at the other side of that trade which is like the short side and
man we just have so many different altcoins with just no product market fit, no users, terrible tokenomics.
Look at like, maybe let's just focus on NFTs for a little bit.
It's one of the NFT companies.
You know, Decentraland, so trade's like $500 million. nfts for a little bit from the nft companies like that you know decentraland sort of trades
like 500 million dollars i don't i don't know a single user of decentral even when nfts are at
their peak and that's a 500 million dollars like i don't know i think people are waiting for the
2021 altcoin season it's never coming so i think if you're looking for an altcoin season which touches Hyperliquid,
maybe some DeFi,
if they manage to capture quite a lot of this
move from Trapi to DeFi, but who knows.
Maybe some of the L1s,
but I'm not...
Some of the L1s also look massively overvalued to me.
I still think some of these alts
can continue to bleed lower for a long time.
Sure.
The long Bitcoin
and hype short garbage.
Still very interesting vault.
I think you still have to be careful what's in your garbage
bucket. Have you looked at this
Maple Finance syrup token?
I've
invested in quite a lot of Maple Finance over the years.
Syrup is the stable coin
thing right? I have some money
in that
you can earn like 14%
on stables back in the day? I don't think you still can
I just
thought this was their overall token
no if you
go to Maple.Finance
Syrup
is the name of name of the token that you get for depositing.
They have a 10% stablecoin yield.
But part of that is in Syrup.
So I think it's like a reward statement for it.
Is there another way to bet on Maple Finance?
Are there other tokens?
No, I think Syrup is there.
Oh, actually, I think they maybe did have a Maple token back in the day.
This is more like the stablecoin derivative.
If you go to Pendle, Pendle.Fi,
this is the way that you're able to forward sell stablecoin yields
I'm sure if I go to maple
or is it syrup?
While we're figuring this out, I think the reason I brought this one up
I saw a thesis that stuck out to me from Jonah
he said his thesis is syrup is going to flip
Aave
because in the era
of deregulation, Aave's
overcollateralized loans are obsolete.
Maple's uncollateralized
lending is the future.
I'm just reading off
his thesis and I have not had a chance
to dig in much
myself.
But somewhat notable,
I mean,
somewhat timely syrup is the number two mover on the week.
It's trading at 130 million FTV.
What's up a 20.
it's it.
I like,
I like some of the defect points here.
I think they're interesting.
Yeah.
I think they're like,
because if you're starting to see TravFi come back,
some of this stuff will stick.
Hyperlip has been the obvious trade there
on this sort of buyback model.
There's still going to be some dogs.
It looks like Uniswap isn't going to fix their token,
for example,
but there's going to be some good trades there,
I reckon.
Maybe they'll just IPO. Quick side, Fictionals
in the comments telling us that on April 10th
oh this is 2024
I thought 2025 but he said
AppRadar reported 42 active users
in Decentraland
I would have actually taken
the under on that
probably
500 billion is about the same as 8coin give or take I actually... It's about the same as ApeCoin.
Give or take.
I think ApeCoin's about 600 minutes.
Yeah, interesting.
Actually, decent little pivot to ApeCoin.
So we got two things are happening.
The ApeCoin DAO is dissolving.
I think that's done.
And then we also got several updates out of the other side
for their persistent metaverse,
some new games coming down the pipe.
Logan, did you have a chance to look in that?
Any read on kind of what's happening here?
Not too much on the other side stuff,
but yeah, I was following the ApeCoin DAO dissolution.
Of course, this came up a few weeks ago.
Garga sort of just threw out the idea for proposal
and then it very quickly moved with
a lot of community support to dissolve this, basically transfer all assets to this entity
owned and operated by Yuga called Apeco, you know, and take away the, basically the governance
proposal opportunity that holders of Apecoin previously had, right? So now it's going to just
be kind of a streamlined, I think the key word there was like focus or clarity.
They were really rallying behind a lot of things like that,
which has been kind of their mantra for the last few months here.
They moved back to Garga as CEO.
They've stripped out a lot of like random IPs that they had acquired
to really, really focus on Ape's Ape chain on the other side.
That's clearly what we're seeing.
I don't have specifics regarding timelines for this,
but basically the way it's going to work is now that they're dissolving,
they'll move the assets over to APECO,
and then from there on out, everything is just handled by them.
So it's pretty straightforward.
I think one of the more bullish catalysts you could hope for in that
ecosystem.
It hasn't really done anything for price.
It hasn't,
but it's also been a heavy month for meme coins kind of broadly.
It is interesting.
So like,
obviously I'm a Pingu lover.
I hold Pingu.
I hold pudgy penguins. The ape a Pingu lover. I hold Pingu. I hold Pudgy Penguins.
The ApeCoin Pingu spread is an interesting one. Pingu's at $900 million. ApeCoin's at $600 FTV.
Their NFTs are higher.
Yeah. I think they become similar tokens. It's actually a question I have not had answered,
but it's a question I passed to Yuga was how you would characterize this
Apecoin now.
It's no longer a governance token.
It's not really a utility token, and neither is Pengu, right?
Pengu, I think they've, they use the word culture coin, I believe, right?
Basically brand coin to associate with the Penguin ecosystem.
Recta is the only brand coin. I have to jump in and
correct you on this.
Sure.
That's, you know, what is Apecoin?
What's the pitch to people to hold Apecoin? It's another question
I ask that's yet to be answered is
you know, if I doubt
many people were holding Apecoin just
to participate in the governance, right? And to act, you know, to have some sort of say holding a coin just to participate in the governance,
right, and to act, you know, to have some sort of say over a point and a change future.
I'm not that naive, but it was one of the reasons you could hold it, right, you could hold it to
participate, and to share your vote, and feel like you're active, you know, actively contributing to
the future of the ecosystem. Why hold it now? I haven't seen that answered yet.
That's something I'm curious about.
I'm curious for that answer as well.
And I struggle a little bit to make the pitch.
I guess it's just a bet on Yuga and the other side
and the brand persisting.
I can't make the pitch, but I feel like I feel like I'm easy to sway anyway.
But I feel like, you know, Garga and team, of course, have talked about this.
Right. They know the pitch they want to give. I assume they know the pitch they want to give.
I just want to hear it because I think I could be I could come around to it.
I still do actually believe this is a really strong brand,
if not the strongest brand in Web3,
one of the strongest brands in Web3.
If anyone is going to succeed,
they have a pretty damn good chance of being one of the ones that do.
So I can be talked into it.
I just need to know what it is.
Yeah, I'm with you there.
Folks, we're going to get to our Yeet spins here in just a minute or two.
The code is Friday.
Last chance to get in.
Again, the code is Friday.
I think another quick – we might not go deep on this,
but just for folks' awareness,
it does look like Ledger is phasing out their Nano S product.
I think this is very important to know a lot of folks use this
i think this was the entry level ledger device basically since 2022 a lot of folks onboarded
to this one as i understand it the primary reason for this is that there's not a whole lot of memory
within the device so it's hard for them to continue to maintain this device
and support several other blockchains.
They're basically at capacity supporting Bitcoin,
Nathan, maybe a few others.
So for them to be able to ramp up support over time,
they're effectively asking folks to migrate to newer devices.
They say basically your device is not going to stop working.
You're just not going to get any updates.
But I think this is important from an OPSEC perspective to at least
understand this is happening.
And I think I'm curious for both of your thoughts on this.
I think about OPSEC when I need to,
I'd say at least once a month, I think once a month I'll wake up and
sometimes in a cold sweat thinking about this to a degree. And one of my concerns, like you put
cold storage out there and you don't want to touch it for a year, two years, three years.
Are you confident that those devices are still going to work you put them in
a po box and it's collecting dust or not a po box in a safe deposit box rather and you go and collect
it in two or three years are you confident it's all still going to work and like here's a sign
like are we confident that the legend nls is still going to work in two years if it's truly cold storage that's not being
touched?
So I think
this idea of self-custody
and cold storage still requires active
maintenance.
And it's something I struggle with.
I'm rambling a bit here.
That drives me crazy. I mean, first of all,
I think I bought two of these things in the past year.
That's 300 bucks down the drain, right? Like, I think I bought two of these things in the past year.
That's 300 bucks down the drain, right? Like if you have to upgrade.
And I had an experience eight years ago where for whatever reason, like my ledger just would not connect to my computer.
And I had to like go, I was living in Hong Kong at the time.
I had to go like buy like a bunch of new micro USB cords.
go buy a bunch of new micro USB cords.
And then finally I found one that actually worked.
And then finally I found one that actually worked.
And then I remember I talked to one of the founders
at a conference and he made fun of me
for not knowing how to think about micro USB.
And that just left a really bad taste in my mouth
with Ledger, like blaming the user
because they can't access the money,
which they clearly want.
Like in crypto, when we blame users,
it's weird because
no one wants to it to work better than the user like it's like how you know how do you blame
someone for doing something that is so much outside of their interest you think i want to
spend like four hours buying micro usb cords and if i didn't live in hong kong where it's like
electronics have electronic seven who knows what would happen and there's just like the but yeah it's stuff like this where like again there's no there's no nothing here that says hey
if you bought spent 300 bucks on this stuff over the past year here's a code for you there's none
of that it's just and i think you're right tyler like this technology might not work in 10 years. And I think it's a problem.
It might not be compatible with where computers are. And I think if the use case of these products
weren't put something away and make it, and you'll have more money in 10 years, that's the use case.
Like take it now, hide it away. And in 10 years, you're going to have it. And no, there's nothing
the government can do about it. Like that is the use case is that this shit works in 10 years you're going to have it and no there's nothing the government can do about it like that is the use case is that this shit works in 10 years so when there's just more and more
signs that it might not work in 10 years like that's a problem like i feel like the narratives
aren't the narratives aren't aren't where they need to be and the narratives aren't fully honest
about yeah i mean yes i i have my seed phrase i should be be fine. But like, I mean, they're sitting here saying like there are going to be fishing risks now,
you know? And it's just, I just like a lot of the value proposition,
a lot more of this stuff gets lost than I think in like all that many other
places where people start money because of user error and good products have
less user error.
Yeah.
We often say like user error is the user's fault, not the product's fault.
I just come from a totally opposite background where I think like user error means the product
sucks.
And that was ingrained in me when I was a first 50 employee at Uber, you know, and at
Uber, at least when I was there, was there travis the ceo was like
we will never have instructions in the app because if it's not obvious how to use our app then it's
our fault and we need to be we need and we need to hire better designers like that's just the
mentality i come from so i find the jump into crypto where everyone's constantly like saying
oh well these users just suck that's their problem i i that is one of my biggest cultural divides with
with the community yeah i'm with you on most of that.
I'm not trying.
I still am pro self-custody.
I'm not trying to argue, come across like I'm against that.
But just I'm very open minded and objectively see the drawbacks to it.
Right.
And it's tricky.
It looks like I lost the connection here
just for a second.
We're back.
Good sake.
We're at the end of the show.
It is time for Coin Friday.
So folks have the last couple minutes here
to get in.
And Sims, if we're ready to start pulling that up,
again, the Code Friday,
we are going to do two winners,
CoinRace, as we always do on Fridays.
We can get this up and running.
Quick, while we wait for Sims,
hopefully folks enjoyed our new streaming ticker
at the bottom of the screen.
Let us know your thoughts.
Sims working hard to get that up
and updated real-time tickers
in there every 10 to 15
minutes. So let us know
what you think.
All right, Sim's here.
We are going to spin
the wheel. Zoom in. Good luck
everyone.
There he is.
Got some music.
I'm saying it's nice but green you know we like the green it matches our color scheme odette i don't recall seeing that handle i think that should be a clean winner
that's that's approved all right odette you won all right so that is odetta nft and kick chat
either jump up on the space or drop us a comment.
We don't always do it in chat because we don't have full Twitter integration at the moment,
but we will do soon.
So you can just do it in the chat and get people's what they want to go with.
All right.
Second winner.
Here's number two.
Who we got?
Midzi. here's number two who we got midzy all right midzy
also approved all right two clean winners here today so odette and
midzy midzy go ahead and drop us a comment
in the chat chat is on fire right now it is making it a little harder
well that's our NFT or midzyays is who we're looking for.
All right. I haven't seen them yet. I have not seen either of these folks. So hopefully they
are on with us. There's Midzi.
MidziPlays, yep. Midzi, clean winner here. So the way today works.
Oh, there's Odette. All right. Chat works for me. Okay, folks. So we are going to play CoinRace.
You beat your banking $500.
And we want to do 200 on Fartcoin mandatory, and they get to pick the other.
Is that what we're choosing?
And are we doing the same race or separate races?
Same race is kind of fun.
I think, what do we want to do here?
I think we could all, let's stick to what we've been normally doing.
So let's do 250 on Fart.
And then first winner who was Odetta
can pick what the two other 250 goes on.
Okay.
So Odetta, we need you to pick a coin.
And then for the second one,
Midzi plays and he also needs to pick a coin
for the other 250.
All right, Odetta, go ahead and give us your pick.
You have Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, or Doge,
and those have increasing odds as you go out the risk curve there.
Assuming you're familiar with the game.
All right, we're waiting on your pick, Odetta.
You got to pick one.
Just type it.
Type it away.
Odetta's struggling. All right, you got to pick one. Just type it. Tap it away. Odetta's struggling.
All right, Bitcoin.
All right, Bitcoin, fart, coin, barbell.
Always a good choice.
Midzi.
Midzi does that song.
All right, so we've got our bets.
So are we doing the same race or two different ones?
I think we do two different ones and go with it.
Okay.
Unless you guys want it all in one?
Y'all call.
Oh, it makes it harder. You can't put 500 on Fart, so we've got to do separate.
Okay.
So Odetta goes first.
250 on Bitcoin, 250 on Fartcoin. Let's go.
That's it.
All right. You're in the next race.
So you can just enjoy watching this one. No pressure.
No! No pressure. No.
No way.
Fart with you.
All right.
ETH one.
That's good.
You don't want to.
All right.
So we got the ETH one out of the way.
All right.
So here we are.
Odetta's up.
250 on Bitcoin.
250 on Fart.
Man, Fart's at 53X.
Is it bacon? Nice.x. Is it big one?
Nice little hit if that goes through.
Good luck, Odetta.
Let's go.
Here we go.
Bargcoin Friday.
13 grand if that hits.
Wow.
Not today.
Bargcoincoins out first
bitcoin's live
bitcoin's live
dogecoin won
alright
you still banked 500 bucks
nice little friday
minzy you're up
oh my god
minzy's getting
77x 77 bucks. Nice little Friday. All right. Minzy, you're up. Oh my God. Minzy's getting 77X.
77 or not.
Holy shit. All right. Minzy's got
7X on Solana
and 73 on
Friday. Here we go.
All right.
Both of these would be very nice wins.
All right. Bitcoin's these would be very nice wins when they come through.
All right.
Bitcoin's out. That's good.
Hold on.
Still in the lead? Hold on.
Hold on.
Dogecoin.
Dogecoin won two in a row? Wow.
I've never seen that.
Double doge.
Well, Midzi, you walked away with 500 bucks as well. Two in a row? Wow. I've never seen that. Double doge. He did already.
Well, Midzi, you walked away with $500 as well.
Well, the team will coordinate with you after the show.
Well, folks, that's going to be it.
That is our shows for the week.
Farouk will be back on with us next week.
So we are excited for that.
As always, I want to thank our listeners for joining us. I want to thank my co-hosts.
I want to thank our partners.
We'll be back Monday at 10 a.m. Eastern. Until then, I want to thank Stats as well. St thank our listeners for joining us. I want to thank my co-hosts. I want to thank our partners. We'll be back Monday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
Until then, I want to thank Stats as well.
Stats, thanks for joining us.
This was great.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Go make it a beautiful day.
Have a great weekend.
Goodbye. Thank you. Oh,
Host
Degenz Live
from
Degenz
