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FOMO HOUR: PUMP FUN DID WHAT???
Recorded: June 4, 2025 Duration: 1:13:09Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the upcoming $1 billion token sale by Pump Fun, signaling a significant fundraising effort that could reshape market dynamics. The conversation also highlighted trends in the meme coin market, with indicators of growth and sustained activity in the crypto space despite summer slowdowns.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Check, check.
Oops.
Wait.
How come I hear?
Check.
Why do I hear myself?
Did you do something wrong?
Did you hear me twice?
Check, check.
One, two.
One, two.
Okay, fixed it.
Okay, let's go.
Let's go. Let's go. go you think that i've been doing this
for three years now right
you think that i've been using this thing for the last three and a half years now right
uh oh we can't that's what sims was saying we can't change the order of which we're
in the show okay okay looks like we're ready. All right. Kick it, Sims. Thank you. What up, what up, what up?
Good morning, good morning, GMG.
Third, when, stride, third, when?
What's the fucking day is it?
Wednesday.
Wednesday, May 4th.
June 4th.
June 4th, 2025. Look at that. Another beautiful day to have a beautiful day. I go by coast in the house. Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, good morning. How are you doing today?
I'm good. We thought maybe summertime might be slowing down a little bit in the crypto
streets. Poppun says no. Nope. We're going to be busy. It's going to be a busy couple weeks.
So it's good.
A lot to talk about.
Pump Fun,
Trump versus Magic Eden.
Oh, yes.
I already forgot about that.
Like the news cycle's moved so fast.
Magic Eden owes Alan
a couple beers
for taking some of the spotlight
off of what looks to have been...
We have a lot to talk about.
You're wearing the Farcoin hat.
I mean, that was what it did.
God damn.
So there's that, like the memes.
There's a lot to talk about today.
So anyways, on the show, we'll talk about all that.
Pumped on the what?
That's the topic of the show.
That's the topic of the show.
So we'll talk about Pumped On and what's going on.
So we'll talk about Pump Fund and what's going on.
I'm just curious about some takes here.
I'm just curious about some takes here.
And then we're going to talk about Tyler's Top 100, which there's a lot of topics.
We'll then also be joined by Jason Atkins from Oros, a very good friend of mine and one of our partners.
So can't wait to talk to him about all things, you know, market making in the markets, et cetera. Actually, someone with extremely great insight
and this finger on the pulse in the market, probably one of the people I know that has
the closest finger on the pulse to the market in crypto. So really curious to see
Jason and what he thinks overall. Then today we're bringing back the Yit giveaway.
You know, guys, we weren't going to do a Yit giveaway yesterday with Joe Lubin. Okay.
So cut me some slack here, but we had to make the Yeet giveaway. You know, guys, we weren't going to do a Yeet giveaway yesterday with Joe a little bit, okay?
So cut me some slack here, but we had to make the call with Sins before the show.
So we'll do three on Friday, but that means we do one today, one Thursday, and three on Fartcoin Friday with Spencer, who will be joining us, Spencer Ventures.
We'll cap games to talk about Moonbears on Friday, so that'll be exciting.
And then last but not least, this show is powered by Well Connect.
Well Connect is the connectivity network shaping the future of Onchain UX.
If you've connected to Web3 app, you've seen Wallet Connect.
That blue logo, it's everywhere.
And I'm going to trust in crypto as recognizable as Visa at checkout.
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Tyler, it looks like you're going to tell me what's next today, baby. For daily NFT and crypto analysis.
Tyler D on FOMO, a little bit weak today.
Bitcoin down a percent, 104.4.
Ethereum was outperforming.
It still is slightly down 0.6%, 2,600.
Sold down 3%, lagging a bit at 155.
We had Uniswap and Abe top alt movers on the morning.
As we look across some of the other headlines, the Ethereum ETFs are on fire.
Another $100 million in inflows yesterday, 12 straight green sessions.
So the ETF buyers are piling in to eat. We had Trump media file for a spot Bitcoin ETF with the SEC aiming to launch the Truth Social Bitcoin ETF.
That is in partnership with Crypto.com and Yorkville America Digital.
Other Trump news, controversial on the day.
So Magic Eden announced they had collaborated with the Trump meme coin team to launch a Trump branded crypto wallet and trading it powered by
Slingshot. Though the Trump family, the sons, Donald Jr., Eric, quickly came out and denied
any connection to the product and warned them to be very careful. So that is still developing.
We had Consensus CEO Joe Lubin on FOMO Hour yesterday, and he dropped some alpha, perhaps some news that a major sovereign wealth fund from a very big country is considering building on Ethereum.
So that's going to be a huge headline to watch.
We had SEC Chair Paul Atkins say that it's a new day for the SEC and that he's prioritizing a rational –
Always good to hear that.
What were you saying? Sorry, it cuts for two seconds.
Like one second.
SEC Chair Paul Atkins calling it a new day for the SEC,
prioritizing a rational regulatory framework.
So always good to hear that.
In corporate treasury news, these headlines keep coming.
NASDAQ listed EdTech firm Classover.
He's going to form a Solana treasury.
They already purchased $1 million worth.
We had SolarBank, an energy company,
announce a Bitcoin treasury,
and then breaking before the show,
this Chinese firm Webus, Webus,
raising $300 million for an XRP treasury.
So Sol, Bitcoin, and XRP.
Now, if we get down to token airdropping protocol news,
pump fun, arguably the biggest story of the day. Reportedly plans to raise $1 billion in a token sale at a
$4 billion valuation. No word on a potential airdrop.
So that was somewhat controversial as well. Rekt Drinks
sold out 180,000 drink cases. Fastest sellout
to date.
You love to see that.
And also, just a quick notice for those who did mint, you have until June 6th to burn those for those rewards and cases.
So the clock is ticking.
Kydo announced that it's live on Instagram and TikTok and socials, at least, and then teased that their algo should be coming there in the near future as well.
They also started an injective campaign.
Rounding this out, AI pretty much chopped on the day.
The leaders were red.
Memecoin leaders are red as well across chains. So Solana memes took a hit in the wake of the PumpFun token news,
but it wasn't just Solana.
The ETH memes were down as well.
So this is a broader memecoin sell-off.
We saw Kled, a notable mover in the Believe app, Eco, up another 60%, 24 million.
And NFTs, let's see, Klanisdorch was the big headline of the day.
They ended up minting 97,000 of these Popkins packs.
They raised $19 million.
Well, they sold in total $19 million.
There is a refund component of this.
Effectively, if you got a pack that does not have this Popkins in it, you get your money back.
So that led to the high number, but still a huge sale.
So how many Popkins are in there?
25,000, I believe.
Okay.
So it seems like three quarters of this is going to get refunded.
So closer to $5 million, but still pretty massive demand.
Got it.
Okay.
Love to see that.
There's a lot to talk about.
That's for sure.
Just quickly.
Mando, good morning.
Good morning.
Good morning.
How are you doing today?
Good morning, guys.
How are you?
Fantastic.
We're good.
We're good.
We're vibing, despite some troubled markets. But we're good we're good we're vibing
you know
despite some
some troubled markets
but we're good
you know
we're just
we're just
running through it
Tyler was running through
our topics of the day
but I'll go to you
real quick
before I go back to Tyler
because I definitely
want to talk about
Pumped On
and I want to talk
because that's
that news
and I would
you know
I definitely want to
hear both your takes
and your opinions
because Tyler
you have some
stronger opinions
about that one
I've been reading your texts and I've been reading opinions. Because Tyler, you have some stronger opinions about that one.
I've been reading your texts and I've been reading your tweets.
So I know you've got some good opinions on the pump fund consensus or non-consensus trade here.
And I do want to go over the Magic Kingdom and Trump shit because that's funny.
That's actually funny as fuck.
I shouldn't be laughing, but I thought it was funny.
This space is hilarious. But quickly, Mando, anything on the market that we need to pay attention to, or is it just all
related to pump fund? We may as well just go there. No, there's been some tariff headlines.
So we just sold off over the last hour or so because Mexico came out and said they're going
to retaliate to these steel and aluminum tariffs coming out from the US. So I think there's like an idea that we could see a bit of a rise
in, let's say, short-term tariff headlines,
and that's going to drag us a little bit lower.
The markets, other than that, the broader macro market feels okay.
We had like an okay jobs figure yesterday.
Stocks have been fine.
So nothing there.
I wouldn't just tie this to pump fun either like
i think this is just the general um chop period here i don't think this is necessarily it's like
pump fun causing this bitcoin's barely moved right over the last few seconds it's like a 105k
basically the whole time um i think we just create the narrative.
As for my take on the Pump Fun stuff,
there was a good tweet I saw on the timeline
maybe a few hours ago, which was
people who
were tweeting to get
500 bucks of Laudio
are complaining because Pump Fun wants to
raise a billion dollars.
I think part of it is just
like a oh my god that they're extracting from the from the ecosystem it's it's terrible like
it's revenue man like it is revenue at the same time like they create a very very profitable
business and arguably that seems kind of fair value, like 4 billion?
Kaito is it too, right?
So PumpFun, I think, makes materially more than them.
Yeah, 10x is, exactly.
Right, so I don't think it's even that expensive.
So I think people are just like,
they're just looking at it on a relative
basis like oh my god these people have made so much money from you um and now they're doing it
but I don't think that that has not been a real difference if the token does come it could easily
come much go much harder than that in marketing so so let's go there right because market-wise
whatever not unchanged like more on the downside, but still like
whatever, like Bitcoin's around hovering over 105K and it's been very choppy.
Memes got absolutely decimated yesterday.
I mean, that Farcoin dip was fucking crazy.
You know, it's like Punk Fun News came out and everybody decided to sell Farcoin.
But me, led the record show and Tyler and Mandel bought some per his tweet.
And Tyler has his Farcoin hat on because hot air rises.
but it was interesting.
So Tyler run us through the news first and then let's discuss it.
Cause I,
there's a lot of takes on the timeline.
Some I want to share,
some I don't really care to share,
but I'm curious to hear what you guys genuinely think here.
So Tyler,
take us through,
run us through the,
what happened last night.
Yeah.
So block works is reporting that a PumpFun is kind of shopping around planning this $1 billion token sale
that would value their protocol at $4 billion. We don't have any official details from the PumpFun
team. A part of their announcement from Blockworks says there will be both a private and public component to the sale.
We don't know the ratio there.
We had folks like Cyrus tweeting again.
This is rumor, but it was somewhat in line.
He said that he was kind of DM some details about this potential token launch a few weeks ago.
$1 billion raised at a $4 billion valuation.
That was correct, at least from what Blockworks is reporting.
He's saying 25% of revenue used for buybacks, 100% unlocked day one, team investors on a 12-month
cliff, airdropped users, but wouldn't be on day one. So that's all rumor mill. Separate that from
the concrete news. The concrete news is just the token sale and the public and private investor
component of this. So we don't know a whole lot. And I think based on the news that
we have, it's hard to really, for me, draw a whole lot of conclusions about what this means
for the trenches, for the broader ecosystem, because there's still so many unknowns.
Is there going to be an airdrop or not? Are they going to actually use buybacks
to drive up the token price? I think those two components have huge swings in potential outcomes for this
one.
I have a lot of thoughts.
There's a lot of directions we can go.
I think first off,
it's hard to get too caught up in what the majority of CT says,
but man,
we have the most viral apps created in crypto this entire cycle,
one of the most successful.
And the majority is complaining about them
doing a
token launch.
Everyone is just
hilariously broke for Bitcoin
at this level. That's genuinely my
takeaway. I feel like
that is what is the annoyance
about this. It's like, we're
still stuck in the trenches,
like trying to play these games.
And now they're even expecting another billion.
I think that's basically what this is.
And like Bitcoin is $105,000.
I'm going to say that.
How long have we been doing that, this fucking show?
Bitcoin is at $105,000.
But nobody owns Bitcoin though, right?
That argument is right, Mando.
But no one has Bitcoin, Mando.
I get the argument.
Maybe you should own Bitcoin.
I get that.
You're right.
You're right.
Your argument is right.
I'm just saying our listeners...
I'm not going to say...
My exposure to Bitcoin are Bitcoin puppets and pups.
Maybe we should be focusing on the idea
that people should be owning a bit more of that stuff.
You're right.
You know what I mean?
P.O. to his defense, to his credit, sorry.
P.O. is like hardcore on that.
It's not even just Bitcoin.
It's just memes, right?
If you're playing the meme coins, I made this point on BeachX the other day,
which is if you look, because obviously I run a casino, right?
Yes.
You look at RTP of the games.
You can look at, and we have a 1% house edge on a vast majority
of summer games, and some Blackjack games, it's like 99.5%.
That means out of 100 spins,
we will win 49.5% and you will win 50.5%. Sorry, we will win 50.5%, you will win 49.5%.
Pump Fun, as a casino,
I think has much worse RTP than that
for the vast majority of people.
They've made a billion.
The trading bots have made a billion.
I don't know how much Radium and Meteor have made
But I would guess it's in the realm of 500 million to a billion
And then you've got to think
Insiders have got the vast majority of that
I don't know
How much are all PumpFun coins worth together?
Can we work that out?
4.5 billion to 5 billion
PumpFun coin market cap
PumpFun coins
Market cap How do you know that
coin gecko has it so 3.7 billion okay okay and i've just said roughly three billion of that
it's already gone in fees okay and now you've got to think that only one of those is really
listed on centralized exchanges which is farcoin right, right? Only really one. And I think Peanut is too.
And other than that, it's like 1% to 2% liquidity pool.
So with 3.7 billion,
you've probably got about 100 to 200 million of liquidity
to actually get out, right?
Max.
These are not easy games to win,
is basically what I'm trying to pitch for people, right?
So if you are sitting there annoyed at suddenly PumpFun doing a token,
like you've just missed the point of PumpFun.
It is a casino.
It is an casino and the RTPs are wildly bad.
If you look at the number of wallets which make money consistently trading Pump Fun, it's like 1%, 2%.
I think in the last month,
there was something like only 5 wallets have made
more than 10k.
I just
like, what I'm
saying about this is that you have to be very honest with the odds
and I think people get misconstrued with the
odds here. The odds are massively stacked against your favor if you're if you're
if you're playing these games you can get the 100x you can get the 10 000x but actually you're
kind of betting at a casino and if you have your whole portfolio in that then it's a real worry
i yeah i agree i don't think a lot of people have their whole portfolio in the pump fund casino.
I would think they have it in memes. Do you consider having a portfolio in the larger
memes having your portfolio in the casino? Honest question. I'm talking about Doge, Pepe,
Mog. Not even Mog, sorry. I'm talking about coins above a billion.
I think the larger, more established memes, there's been value creation, but pump fund
itself as an ecosystem and maybe
solana mean coins maybe as a broader extension but particularly pump fun that i just went through
the numbers there right like about 3.7 billion of value created about maybe two and a half three
billion of value already lost to fees and then you've got to assume which of those wallets have actually made the money.
And can you monetize it?
Like,
Pepe has unbelievable
liquidity. Unbelievable. Even
actually. Very, very good liquidity.
And it's listed on every centralized
saying, as does Doge.
I think you've got to just consider
the casino that you've been playing at
here a little bit.
And if you've been playing at here a little bit. And,
and if you,
if you,
if you have been seeing it as that and like,
yeah,
we can make money and it's a thousand X and it's a Ponzi that we all get
into early,
then fine.
But like,
if you're now sitting,
complaining that pump funds bring out a coin,
like they just have created the best RTP situation for themselves.
And,
and yeah yeah like people
are going to continue to play at that casino then
cool. Yeah fair
that's very fair
10,000 extra where else are you going to get
I mean that was the whole story of the cycle right like I see
all Beast made a post about this on Tyler was like yo like
the same people saying oh
everybody's complaining you don't have enough big corners
same people that were pushing the daily runner
and the hyper rotation this cycle narrative like if you don't have enough big corners saying people that were pushing the daily runner. And the hyper-rotation, this cycle narrative.
If you don't hyper-rotate, you're going to miss out.
And now we're asking people, we, not us,
but we, the people, are asking others.
Like, yo, why don't you run all this for us?
Because you guys were promoting the hyper-rotation of tokens
all cycle long.
And actually, K-Money, to his defense,
to his credit, sorry, not defense, he was the one saying that would believe in something because these markers are really crazy. The rebranding of
shit coins to Daily Runner is going to hyper speed this industry to zero and looks like he was right.
Tyler, you have been voicing on the timeline and behind the scenes how you don't
see this as bearish memes, like
soul memes and soul itself, because consensus
has that. What do you think of that?
Because that was the first take
of most people. I tend to agree with
you, actually, because I like to
maybe take non-consensus trades.
So what does that mean? What's your take here?
What do you think?
My first gut reaction was kind of in line with everyone's.
This is going to be a big liquidity suck.
Is this a top sign?
We all have PTSD from the other side
in the NFTs 2022,
which was not obvious in the moment,
but it was more of an obvious top sign in hindsight.
And then Dees ran his poll out
and 75% of respondents said,
this is bearish for Sol and Sol meme eco.
So I saw at that time how broadly consensus it was,
which made me kind of second guess my initial reaction.
So I think there's still some open details that we need to be confirmed on all this.
But I think there's a lot.
We need to know if there's going to be an airdrop or not.
I think that's going to be a huge factor in this.
I think there's also a component of who,
where is the liquidity coming from,
from the pump token sale?
Like, is it actually the trench warriors?
Or is it institutions?
Is it whales with deeper wallets?
Money that would not have entered the trenches anyway.
And my gut is it's likely that cohort who is going to drive a majority of the pump fund token buy pressure.
And if that's the case, you can make an argument that it's more bullish for the eco, especially if it comes, if you get positive price action and an airdrop, then that becomes a much more bullish setup
for the Solana meme ecosystem.
So I think that's one component.
The second, I think there's a lot of people
who are saying memes are done.
The meme cycle is over.
It's topped already.
I don't know if I can get there.
I feel like it's like saying that sports gambling is over.
I think people want to do this.
Now, it doesn't mean that we're going
to continue the same way that we've been doing.
Maybe we won't have the meme runner
of the day in this hyper-rotation.
Maybe it'll be more of a rotation back
to some of the more stronger
community tokens. I'm not sure exactly how it's
going to move forward. I don't think we're going to see a total
utter collapse of the
meme coin ecosystem overall
as a result of this.
But I'm still working through my thoughts.
And I do think if PumpFunk comes out and confirms the details
and say there's no airdrop, we're just going to do this,
and they're not going to do any buybacks,
I think they're going to face a lot of backlash.
And there's certainly no shortage of competitors right now.
And if they face a lot of backlash, maybe PumpFun has topped.
So we'll see, which is why I don't think they'll do that.
I think they will reward their users in some capacity.
They see the success Hype is having with the buybacks,
and of course they don't necessarily have to do that.
But to me, you can run the scenarios.
I feel like the upside that you would create with the token
and this broader positive community sentiment
would have to outweigh you giving up that portion of income.
So that's where I'm at.
They'll do buybacks.
I've heard rumors that they've taken out so much money
that they have been debanked.
Yeah, those are not rumors.
This is true because I've heard the same thing and I know someone helping them.
They have made so much money that they've been debanked.
Well, it's normal, right?
They live in the UK, right?
And the UK doesn't support people making money.
So maybe token is the best way to do this.
Just apply a token, then they sell the the token and that's a better way of
Monetizing the money. So there's some takes on the timeline
You got Andy saying universe where pump fund launched at 1 billion raises actually bullish for me
He's raises mostly filled with funds people without me in coin exposure
Okay, no big liquidity stock from on chain pump fund then does an eye drop to users who get new
liquidity like funded by the bid But then you have spider who goes pump on knows no big liquidity stock from on-chain. Pump Fund then does an eye drop to users who get new liquidity,
like funded by the bid.
But then you have Spider who goes,
Pump Fund knows memes are dying,
hence the token launch.
At the end of the day,
it's just harder and harder for people
to justify pushing 100K plus into meme coins,
which is why internet capital markets
is a refreshing narrative.
Some of these coins can justify
if their flyways are good enough,
can't help but feel
that I want to expose myself last night to meme coins.
It's kind of like opposite takes here.
Personally speaking, I don't really understand the take of like this is another Trump moment.
Remember when Trump coin came and everything kind of dumped?
As a matter of fact, Farquhar went to all-time high last time there was a Trump coin.
And the opposite happened yesterday.
So we had an immediate sell-off, aggressive, of some of the top meme coins in Solana.
CryptoUB was saying consensus is that Solana and solana memes are dead here would be funny if i tend to agree with that but also sometimes i'm wary of being anti-consensus
because sometimes like hey you're just the last that japanese soldier meme right so cyrus commented
on my post yesterday i thought it was funny so what do you guys think here for Solana's ecosystem and its memes?
I mean, bring up every Solana meme coin.
I don't want to.
Well, in March,
Fortcoin was trading at $250.
Yeah, you're right.
In April, it was trading at $400, right?
Mudang was at,
in April, $40 million now 200 like you're talking about big moves across
the board in pretty much every single time it's not been a bad period here for solana meme coins
um i would be a bit more wary like i don't think this is what i would say is firstly pump fun has
got a number of different people who are invested in it.
Like, a ton of different people invested in it.
And it was kind of already known that they were doing this.
For the last month or so, there's been rumors going around that they were going to do this.
And a lot of people have been saying on the timeline, this is a big worry for Solana because if they decide to do their own chain,
all this comes to liquid.
So the part of what you have seen probably over the last couple of weeks at least in Solana meme coins has probably been this.
You hear this headline.
People see the headline.
They're like, oh my God, I've got to sell Solana meme coins.
I've got to sell Sol.
And actually that's kind of already happened.
It's probably been happening for the last two weeks.
You just didn't really know why.
So I think part of the move has probably happened.
But I do think that I'm just more bullish on ETH.
I'm just more bullish on ETH.
I think ETH has got a clean narrative.
We had Joe Lubin on yesterday.
It's not that I'm more bullish on activity.
I actually think activity will stay, and maybe even fee revenue will stay with Solana.
I don't think ETH is at that spot.
What I'm bullish at for ETH is Hopium and the treasury trade, which is basically what he is now talking about.
The idea of companies coming in and building up ETH treasuries that potentially we're going to get ETH staking as well for the ETF, which allows for even more of this ETH treasury trade.
And I think part of it is also just a rebound
from nobody owning it.
Even before we went live,
I still don't think people even own it.
They hate to own it.
It's like a disease to own ETH versus owning an ETH means.
I have to say after yesterday,
you know,
Joe,
oh fuck,
I should,
after the show,
I'll post a full interview because I really need people to listen to it.
Joe cooked.
Yeah.
But like,
think about how you own soul and you're like,
I own soul and I can't like it.
You know,
you own ETH and you're like,
oh yeah,
I don't know.
Maybe I should own Mog or maybe I should own Pepe or RegTH and you're like, oh, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I should own Mog.
Or maybe I should own Pepe or Reg.
Like, you're just told not to own it.
And I think that is its strength if it does pick up.
Because I still don't, I actually just think it's not even owned.
Like, it's as little owned by the trenches right now as Bitcoin,
in my opinion.
Like, people do not own it.
And I think that if it builds any sort of a
narrative can be very very strong yeah this is uh yeah
what is this pump fund token going to be a buy at uh at four billion
are you guys are you guys uh clearing up some funds to buy on the gun?
Or buy on the free sale?
It's really difficult because I think it's one of those classic things in DeFi
where you start annualizing like,
oh my God, the buyback is going to be insane.
And pump fund revenue is down 80% in the last three months or four months.
It's down a lot.
And that's partly that's because of other competitors
and partly because the Solana casino has slowed somewhat after Trump.
I don't know what the annualized revenue is on front of front.
It's definitely very high, but it's probably in the low hundreds of millions
rather than in the high hundreds of millions, I think.
Last time a company
raised at four billion dollars and there was not a ceo but it was google labs um so you can't
compare tokens but you can compare valuations i believe and you'll have the time was making a
ton of money too um in revenue similar to pump on in terms of like royalties etc but i hate
comparing because there's such bad comparisons but but the 4 billion, I don't
know.
Are you guys buying at $4 billion?
I would not buy, but Hyperliquid makes it look very cheap.
The thing is, this is the Hyperliquid member looks very cheap as a chain.
I'm buying at 2 billion.
It can look very expensive as an app.
So pump fun, if it's really smart here,
and what people are already saying is
they're actually pitching this as a chain,
and it's going to be its own chain.
And if that is going to be the case,
then you could be like,
well, this could be valued close to hyperliquid,
and with which there's a really high upside.
And maybe it does build out the app ecosystem
and it goes down
that route but if it's just um an app then yeah probably probably fair value is around that
i think i'm a buyer i i'm just gonna push back on the 80 reduction i've seen people i think a lot
of the bears have been kind of pointing to that it's like maybe it's down 80 from the blow off
trump two week tail period.
Pumpkin is still making a fuck ton of money.
I don't know what barricades people are talking about.
Yeah.
They're making one and a half million a day.
It's a great business.
Everybody wants to be out on it.
How much is Radian making?
I think in line.
In line.
Yeah.
I mean, come for me.
Check, check.
Sorry.
It is.
Can you guys hear me?
We can hear you now.
Radium's is not as sexy.
Of course it's not.
That's a dumb thing to say.
Dude, Pumpkin's making a ton of money.
I just don't get the... If they announce a buyback, I think it's a double.
I think 2x at $4 billion. They're definitely doing a buyback, I think it's a double. I think you can 2X at $4 billion.
They're definitely doing a buyback.
Oh, for sure.
That's the most easy flywheel, top-of-line flywheel you can come up with,
like buyback.
I'll be in the pre-sale if they announce that and confirm it.
I think they will do it regardless, Tyler.
But I see what you mean.
I won't be shoving super hard,
but so let me ask you guys something.
Should I do a presale?
It's a myriad.
I mean,
I'm looking at it like that.
Are you making $500 million a year?
Well,
we wouldn't do it at $4 billion,
dude. Obviously, we wouldn't do it at $4 billion, dude.
Obviously,
you know,
everyone,
everyone,
this is,
this is just pocket watching there,
isn't it?
It's like,
Oh my God,
maybe I should do that because they're doing it.
I think it's very difficult.
I should.
I'm fun is,
you know what I mean?
I mean,
this is going to be like ICO season.
Like yeah,
you had the, the Kobe, like solar like Sonar News not long ago with Echo.
That was massive, massive.
Like making ICOs pretty much legal.
And now this.
And people want to tell me they're bearish crypto.
Like you have an ICO kind of season coming here.
Like a lot of people trying to compare this to like a double top thing.
The pump fund Trump was first.
The second one is this.
Do you guys really feel that way about this pump fund news?
am I crazy not to think that like,
I don't think pump funds thing is going to destroy the market.
Like why do people think that?
I have to say,
the thing that I, and I don't know if you
agree with me, I never
go on PumpFun.
Ever. I haven't been since
Q4 or something. I'm never on it.
As an app,
for me, it's more middleware.
You're really trading
Flex, Poton, one of these trading bots that like actually make it
discernible for you to actually view even the streaming content is not that good so like pump
fun has made it very easy people to create tokens but like it i don't think people like are hanging
out on pump fun i don't know i go on that i don't know maybe they are out on PumpFun. Not as much anymore.
I don't know.
Maybe they are.
I mean, they're trying to get all these creators to make money.
You have all the shows now.
You have the Gainsey show.
You have Eddie's show.
They're bringing a bunch of originals.
They're going towards content.
You're right.
I mean, I don't go on PumpFun.
I never did, really.
I bought a bunch of shitcoins there.
That's what I kind of mean
Hyperliquid is an app that you go on
and you use
I think PumpFun
you could argue
as a very
democratized form of token creation
yeah it is, it's a protocol
BLM is right, that's the beauty of it though
I don't go on Radium and Jupyter often
but I'm still interacting with the protocol
interesting
what do you go on
if you're not using
Radium or Jupiter then
I don't know
I guess you're using
the telephotone
photonova
yeah
you know
bonkbot
yeah
interesting
I feel like something
on Jupiter quite a lot
yeah
I mean
I only use Jupiter
strictly
and to be fair, BLA,
that is the criticism of Radium too, though.
That it was middleware.
I don't go on Radium at all.
That it was middleware for other people.
Pumpkin, to me,
Sarn's ecosystem feels very
interdependent.
It feels very much like it all works
because the other things all work together.
Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, anyways that's interesting i guess we'll see um i do we do have jason in the studio i want to bring
him onto this conversation because it's what up jason hey fellas how you doing how you doing
i knew you were gonna do that with my accent you can't't help yourself. How you doing, mate? Hey, show us the mullet.
It's getting pretty bad at the back.
Should I do one?
Party in the back. Should I do one?
Sorry for offending all your
viewers. That's my first
course of action. Australian accent and a bad haircut.
Jason, I have a question
for you. For those who don't know,
Jason Atkins from Oros.
I mean, he runs the shit.
He's the best.
He's one of the most smartest people I know in crypto.
We'll get to your interview and a few questions for you that we've prepped up.
But Jason, what do you think of this pump fund use?
The market reacted in a certain way.
You've interacted with Solana and the ecosystem a ton.
And you know it very well, more than most people actually.
What do you make of the pump fund use for the Solana ecosystem
and for the broader crypto here?
I mean, I was just in the waiting room listening to you guys
and Amanda, you were making some pretty good points
that if you're looking at, we got this temptation in crypto
to like value things on revenue or earnings of the firm
as soon as we're trying to like work out comparables.
Whereas if you look at something like Hyperliquid that's done so well,
it's not just because of the revenue,
it's because of the forward-looking outlook that they've explained
about the chain.
So to your point, is PumpFun just raising a billion dollars
to like add, I don't know, a new feature set to the UI
or add new protocols that they're going to be middleware for
to your point?
No, they're not.
That sort of money has left like I think the main things we're missing
over, getting distracted by, like, the billion-dollar raise
at $4 billion valuation.
Are they going to do a buyback?
When in reality, the question is, like, what are you doing
with the money?
And that question is going to answer whether you should participate
in the pre-sale.
I think the buyback stuff, like, undoubtedly, supply-demand dynamics,
sure, it increases your likelihood of being okay at four billion versus waiting for a dip but ultimately cannot go from four billion to
where's hyperliquid now like 35 36 billion the difference between that it's almost like it's
speculative on the forward-looking outlook versus just a straight revenue calculation
they earn this much per year therefore they'll do this buyback. That really is like a single point of failure that's pretty hard to sustain because to your point, if the
revenues of Pump.Fund keep coming off or don't rebound in the way that they thought, that
valuation starts to become a question because it's not what it was at the peak. There are less
revenues. Can they reinvent themselves? So really, if the question I've got is like, what are you
going to do with the billion dollars? And I think they they run the ico they're going to have to
tell investors what the plan is like you don't raise that sort of money publicly or privately
without like a data room in the deck and some explanation of like what you're buying into
because if it's just i'm buying into buybacks you're kind of playing with like when will the
market work out that this is capped and it's capped on,
is someone going to come along and do what
other NFC marketplaces did to OpenSea, right?
Like at its peak OpenSea,
you would have looked at and been like,
this is the thing, revenues, everything.
And then how quick does that go?
So I think you need it to be something more
for 4 billion to be sort of a good entry point.
You might get a short termterm sort of double up,
as you guys pointed out.
But yeah, I think Hyperliquid's done a really good job
of pulling liquidity and pulling users in.
But of course, one discernible difference
between what they've done and what Pump.fund's doing
is they've controlled every piece of the stack the whole way.
Like, no VC money, they control liquidity on their product.
So, like, everything about control has led to that initial setup
for the token to do what it did.
Now, I think it's done more because of, again,
the forward-looking prospects and revenues increasing
and usage increasing, but ultimately it's control.
The token's very similar to someone that launches the token,
restricts supply quite a lot and controls
everything and is able to like make the price go higher it's like that doesn't necessarily
mean it's worth what it's worth but that control aspect is is pretty valuable and i think it's a
pretty big difference between what pump.fun has got and what um hyperliquid's got i think liquidity
for the pump.fun token is going to be essential because guys like you guys that may buy into the pre-sale aren't going
to hold if this thing's whipping around super quick,
instantly on very, very light fumes.
You don't think the trend will hold on to Pumped Up Fund coin
at $4 billion?
But actually, I mean, the best thesis I've heard,
we had this chat internally today, this is actually kind
of an interesting theory, is that a lot of the firms during the meme cycle
that wanted to participate in the trenches
but just didn't A, have the expertise or remit to do so,
are looking for exposure to memes.
And maybe a single point of basket trading Pump.Fun as the token.
Because if meme cycle kicks off again
and no one else comes and competes with
pump.fun let's assume they stay as the incumbent market leader then pump.fun token will go up and
that's like exposure to every meme that will launch without you having to to your point
pilot sit there and look at the ui and like grimace at how painful it is to even work out
what's listing and and who's listing it why why. What if PumpFun makes a reserve?
Maybe that exposure helps.
PumpFun, Fartcoin Reserve.
I saw Tyler tweet about that.
I was like, what if they're going to buy back?
You need the Fartcoin treasury strategy.
No one's done that yet.
Yeah, exactly.
That's the key.
Exactly.
I mean, that's like the trendy thing to do at the moment.
Reverse back onto something on the New York Stock Exchange
and use the assets to back buying something.
Why not Fartcoin?
So that's a good question.
And I want to get to interviewing you,
but like AIBrow says,
isn't that what the Solana token is for?
Exposure to the meme coin casino?
I would probably say if you ask Solana that,
they would say we're a little bit more than that, but yeah,
I mean, that's what drove it last cycle.
It drove it when Trump came in coin.
Trump makes more money than Solana.
Is this pump chain really happening?
Like L1?
What else do you do with a billion dollars
in crypto?
Also, do you need a billion dollars to do a chain?
They need it for the valuation yeah like a billion dollars is a lot of money to spend you want to try and call yourself as hyper liquid uh you need to change yeah pump fund
needs to sponsor our show go stream on pump i think didn't they reach out i remember hearing
about that somehow to us they reached out reached out on Wreck-Crick.
Dude, we got to get them. We're about to relocate the show on Monday somewhere.
You got fucking stream on Pump Fun?
Yo, Alan.
Alan, my kids are going to be
Jewish. We got to work
together.
Come on.
That's a hard appeal to pass.
Exactly. Why do you think I'm with Vanessa?
I'm trying to join the tribe.
My best friends are Jewish, man.
Oh, no, no.
I'm marrying one, okay?
This is how – okay.
Anyways.
Okay, before I get canceled on here.
So I don't know.
We'll see what happens with Pump Fun.
Yada, yada, yada.
Look, we'll talk about the whole Magic Eden.
What?
Your point, Jason, what you said about the reverse SPAC stuff.
We had Joe Lubin on here yesterday.
Yeah, I saw.
We pushed Jason for Joe yesterday.
Yeah, I got kicked off the show.
So as you were saying, Mando, no one holds eight.
I have some holdings left.
I've weathered the storm a little bit.
So I was happy I was replaced by Joe Lubin.
Yes, I was like, sorry, Jason.
Last minute got Joe on.
Do you mind coming on Wednesday?
But you know what it is?
It's Trump, CZ, Joe, and then Jason up only, you know?
Yeah.
Only getting better.
Companies that have announced they're going to do this reverse back and that have mooned have
been the bitcoin ones soul strategies i think and then now this e-sharp link firm i'm pretty
sure somebody announced they did it with doge and their stock went down like 40 percent um and i
think i was i was kidding about farcoin no but like somebody should do that, right?
Surely they should do that with Doge, right?
That does feel like the sort of thing that should be
Doge is the only asset
in crypto which has actually outperformed Bitcoin
It's the only asset
since it's
over the last, I think it's
5 or 10 years, whatever, how long it's been around
And yet, no one's
Doge has got Tesla.
Elon, at some point, or SpaceX
is going to announce that they're going to hold their treasury
in Doge.
Didn't GME dump, though,
on the back of the Bitcoin buys?
Yeah, they're down again.
Mixed, yeah. They're choppy.
Okay.
They're up 11% on the most.
I think you're right. i think it's like there's
a difference between like i'm gonna hold my treasury in bitcoin and there's i'm gonna run
the micro strategy playbook of like issuing debt and equity to buy more and more and more on this
like infinite money printer glitch um i think like a company that has a slightly irrelevant business
model gamestop is like a meme at this point
to then go and like deploy assets into another.
It kind of feels like why would I just buy Bitcoin at that point?
Whereas MicroStrategy has got this like flywheel effect thing going
that everyone else is trying to replicate.
So slightly, I guess, slightly different mechanics on it.
So yeah, there's a lot.
Jason, we need to have you more.
I want to ask you some questions here,
but we need to,
when are we doing the,
you know,
we got to talk more markets with you on the show.
You,
you know,
your shit.
I like that.
you know,
these guys,
well,
let's get into who you are and what you guys do at Oros because,
you know,
we talk about market makers a lot on the show.
Obviously we talk about winter nuke the most.
but,
you know,
when the token does, you know, when the token does,
you know, Winter Nuke sends their regards.
But when the token pumps, you know,
we definitely don't give them the credit.
I haven't heard that nickname before.
That's not a bad one.
I'm playing though.
I like the folks there.
I got some homies obviously out there
and they're some of the best ones. But Jason some homies obviously out there and, and, and,
and they're,
they're some of the best ones,
but Jason,
you know,
you guys at Oros,
of course we've,
we've hosted some events together.
We recently hosted the Dubai token 2049 event.
You sponsored a ton of our events.
You know,
you're partnering with us in many ways,
which I can't talk about just yet on the myriad level,
but soon I can't wait.
But why don't you just give yourself a brief intro on what Oros does.
Yeah, cool.
We do a little bit more than just sponsor events
with Farouk and the Rug Radio thing.
So we're a market maker.
Oros is a global high-frequency trading firm.
So we started about six, seven years ago now
as a group of traders, technologists
that were just building out systems to trade
across crypto markets at the time,
really inefficient crypto markets and mostly CeFi at that point.
Yes, we spent sort of the first three years building out that tech stack
and ended up becoming one of the largest trading firms in the world
when it comes to the volumes we put through markets,
primarily at its genesis through centralized venues,
but increasingly over the last few years as DeFi has sort of started to reach that feature parity area
and start to deliver on the ability for us to be capitalally efficient
and provide our liquidity on-chain,
we've started to do that more and more.
And we were just talking about Hyperliquid
is a venue that we're pretty familiar with.
We've done, I believe, the largest amount of volume all time
on that exchange itself on the leaderboard,
which people can take a look at.
We trade on the venue.
There's a lot of activity there and it's one of the venues
that we use alongside some of our centralised
and other decentralised platforms.
So my role at the company is on the commercial side
of the business, so less on the trading side of things.
I sit with the head of trading in Hong Kong
and the trading teams there.
My job is to work around how we can repurpose our ability to understand markets, provide liquidity, which is sort of what happens when we trade anyway in the size we do.
How do we do that for external partners?
So really working with token projects right from the early stage, we venture invest at like pre-seed and seed rounds.
And then we start to work with the
team build relationships as they approach the need for a token and now as a token market maker i
shouldn't say this but not everyone needs a token but for those that do they start to look into like
how do i create the best like garden for success um and when you're talking about like pump fun and
where can it go four billion higher or, you're really discussing the granular metrics or things that would go into like building that flywheel or setting up that recipe for success.
And that might be token buybacks or it might be like best in class liquidity in the books.
When you work with like a firm like AORUS, we're not directional as such.
So like the Pump. Fund going up or down view doesn't really matter to us.
What we're doing is acting as sort of volatility compressors.
We're providing bids and offers into the books at all times
to reduce that excessive volatility that can really make it hard
for people to hold early stage tokens in particular.
Everything right out the curve to smaller FDV projects,
50 million and around that region,
and then right up through to the multi-billions
of dollars of launches.
We're pretty comfortable doing that stuff
because we do it for ourselves just in larger cap tokens
where there's like an economic reason to do so.
That's kind of a quick overview.
I'm based in Hong Kong.
We have 133 people globally now.
We just opened an office in New York.
Yeah, I think that's fairly lean for what we do in the space.
But yeah, we've just opened an office in New York
where we're going to have a bunch of venture guys,
commercial-facing people, researchers.
So primarily like a hub to make sure that we have more exposure
to that market as the landscape's changed in the US.
And happy to talk about our views on that as well. But yeah, sorry, that was longer than expected,
but really excited to be here. And thanks for having me on, guys.
No, this is sick. Well, 130 people, I was not aware of that. That grew really fast.
Question for you, because you said, you know, not everybody needs a token and that you help a lot
of these companies though, however, and we talk about market makers a lot in the space. I feel
like market makers have grown to have this like more negative connotation now in the space right tyler
when i think about like mostly because of the meme coins in general um which is why the joke
right like winter mutes in regards as dwf whatever but what's up mendo yeah i think it's a
misunderstanding of them exactly a lot of these guys are Are you, is Zora Delta neutral for a large part of the business?
That's the thing.
There's a couple of things.
I think like, Mando, you said misunderstanding is probably the best way to put it.
It's like people's crypto Twitter is fast.
It moves at 160 characters longer now, but like it has that like short attention span.
So surface level is as deep as they get.
And like people come to us and they go like, market making is this.
And they bundle 50 different activities into it.
And they bundle up all market makers,
no matter how they operate or what they do.
And it's all bad.
When I would say,
even if you get out of crypto and look in traditional markets,
having a market maker there
means that people don't pay brokerage on Robinhood,
for example.
And everyone likes that.
I don't want to pay brokerage on equity trades on Robinhood,
but I don't want Citadel to make money off my flow.
You can't have both things.
They make money off your flow by providing you the very liquidity
with which you trade for free.
So my first question to anyone who's like,
market make is bad, let's get rid of them in the space,
is do you even understand how bad the spreads
and liquidity would get?
You think what happened when Trump launched a token
and everything got sucked out.
You talk about that across the space.
So I think getting deeper into the understanding
of what differences are between what delta neutral market making,
Mando, you've obviously understand this already,
but what delta neutral market making is where we don't take
directional views on projects.
We really are just providing bids and offers,
being the buyer of last resort and the seller of last resort
to make sure that there's not that excessive volatility.
Well, I think what people see is they see X sold to Win2Me
or X sold to this market.
Yeah, exactly.
And they think that that market maker is being directional.
Often, like this is just a broad brush but like often when the market maker has a disproportionate amount of the supply it's been
sold to them by the team or insiders and they have then hedged it with a uh with a perp or some other
way of maybe a broader hedge across the market and i I think often what they look at then is like,
oh my God, like X market maker has this much of a coin and it's gone down.
And actually what they should have seen that as is insiders sold
to a market maker at a price who then hedged themselves
with some sort of delta new...
This goes back to my point.
You've like grouped in.
So what transaction,
your style, you're talking about,
that's like an OTC transaction
to sell the tokens.
We actually,
when we're working with a project,
we get loaned the tokens.
So the transaction you see
of tokens arriving in our wallet
is a returnable loan.
It's not a grant.
It's not a purchase.
We don't actually send the money at the time.
What we sign up to do, and this is what we did when we got into the space,
was we guarantee that we'll provide the liquidity with those tokens you've loaned us
for the period of 12, 18, 24 months, whatever the mandate's for.
And then we have an option over the top to buy those tokens off the project at a price premium.
That's at the end of the mandate.
That's like like you might fail
halfway through like oris i think pioneered in the space this thing sounds crazy but like
contractual obligations like saying what you're going to do put it in a contract and then if you
breach it the contract's ended and you get punished for it which sounds insane to people
from the real world where that's how it works everywhere but in crypto a lot of the time it was like give a bunch of the supplier to your point
a lot of the supplier to a market maker and hope they're going to do the right thing i'm not of the
belief that any project should hope that we do the right thing they should understand our incentives
construct deals that you know the structures that we use that make us do the job if you don't get
best-in-class liquidity from oros for the us do the job. If you don't get best in class liquidity from Oros
for the whole entire term of the mandate, we don't get paid.
It's that simple.
And that's how it should be.
Yep.
And we sort of stand by that and we like to raise the bar,
but that makes it hard for competitors, right?
Because if they can't do technologically what we can do
when it comes to trading, it's very expensive, very quick.
But that's kind of where we see our moat.
We commit to doing what we say we're going to do.
We put it in the contract.
We guarantee it.
And if we don't do it, there's a kind of punishment for us.
And then we put up bigger numbers than other people
that make it hard for others to keep up.
That's how we approach the space.
I love that.
But the reason why you're like number one trader on Hyperliquid
is because you do a lot of this hedging sort of stuff,
which is like what people can do,
right?
We've seen that with Athena or we even spoke about the other day.
Remember we had the show and we had this conversation on this exact show.
And I said to you, instead of selling Farcon,
you could right now just short it on hyper liquid.
Yeah.
And that was the trading.
It was 1.4,
1.5.
And I said like,
you could just sit there and early yield for the rest of the year.
Right.
Risk-free.
And then you didn't.
And then.
Well, because I don't know this shit.
I'm not going to start market making my fart coin position.
You know, I'm going to hold it.
You know, I'm going to be down a lot like him right now from the top.
And then I'm just going to hold it longer and hope that it goes back up.
We're not the number one trader of the Hyperliquid token,
though we do trade a lot of it.
You're the number one wallet on Hyperliquid.
On like as in volume.
How much volume have you guys done on Hyperliquid if you don't mind me asking?
Because you brought it up.
I knew that, but you brought it up.
I think it's last, I looked a few days ago or something with 135 billion, I think.
You guys have done $135 billion volume on Hyperliquid?
Just Hyperliquid, yeah.
That's just Hyperliquid.
Yeah, you can see it on the leaderboard.
Yeah. $137 billion. Yeah. $2 billion since. just hyper liquid yeah that's just hyper liquid yeah you can see it on the leaderboard yeah
yeah two billion dollars since you know a mere two but let me ask you something jason quickly
just for the sake of what can you share like how much volume do you guys do in crypto in general
like on a day-to-day basis a week there monthly because you said just hyper but i'm sure you do
crypto combine it yeah it fluctuates like Obviously, peak trading days when the markets are super busy
and people need to trade and there's lots of activity going on.
We'll do a lot.
I think a peak trading day earlier this year was in excess of $10 billion
on centralized exchanges and two, two and a half on-chain,
I believe, that day.
So it's sort of like large numbers on a single day,
but that's not consistent.
I think a better metric of it is sort of around 2% to 3%
of global crypto volume we're transacting.
So, I mean, it goes back to 130 people.
I mean, that sounds like a few, but they've got a couple of things to do.
But, yeah, I think like really digging into the details
on like what market makers actually do is super important.
I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have about it
or happy to answer questions.
Because I feel like you kind of went there,
what are you doing stuff?
And then what's this misunderstanding that DGens have
or underestimation that they have about trading firms
that silently operate in a background like yours?
But if you were to explain in layman's terms exactly what you do and how you make your money on the 135 billion dollars
the trading activity itself man it was spot on like we run a lot of delta neutral strategies
like where you're looking at funding arbitrages and you're looking at statistical arbitrage
with some corn strategies that run in the medium frequency space we can see a high frequency
trading firm so we're looking at all the venues we're trading at, working out where
we think our theoretical cheap and expensive point is putting up bids and offers through the market,
making markets. That's where the name comes from. And by doing that, we provide liquidity to people.
So if you want to go buy a whole bunch of Bitcoin on one of the venues where we trade, which is the
major venues where you would want to buy any size, you'd end up inevitably trading against us.
And we're not unhappy to be a seller of Bitcoin there because we've got some other position
on or a hedge against it elsewhere.
And we're earning on, like Maddo said, in a very simplistic manner, we're earning in
other ways.
We have strategies that on a long enough timescale in a Delta neutral fashion will continue to
add profit and revenue to
the business um and the benefit to everyone i kind of think like people say sort of cheesy stuff all
the time but like liquidity ends up being like the lifeblood of the market we don't trade that way
on hype on finance on coinbase we just don't trade the way we trade in that size everyone's cost of
transaction goes up so true and you don't have the way we trade in that size, everyone's cost of transaction goes up.
So true.
And you don't have to, you have to start thinking like, cool,
what am I actually buying in for?
How do I execute it?
Am I paying fees on every transaction I do?
Or is it like moving money around, liquidity on bridges,
all that sort of stuff.
That's all underpinned by liquidity.
And I think if people get away from the concept of like market makers bad
don't care if there being liquidity if they really dug into like what would happen it's not going to
be great it goes back to like the heyday of you know some of the early exchanges where there was
no liquidity and the transaction fees people were paying now all that gets dwarfed if bitcoin does
a thousand x again or ten thousand xx again or wherever you bought in.
But ultimately, as the market matures and gets more efficient,
it needs to be liquid.
And another benefit that we provide is just because of economic incentive,
not because we're like altruistic and helping the space necessarily,
but we arbitrage prices back in the line.
So it means if you're trading on a DEX or you're trading on a SEX or you're
trading on some sort of hybrid version of that, the price should be the same,
right?
It shouldn't be a bad experience to be a US user and stuck on Kraken or
Coinbase.
You should be able to buy the token for the same price as everyone else.
100%.
Some people, some people, oh, some people loving what you're saying, Jason.
Quickly, your Twitter account is
OXJAdkins, right?
Yeah, that's me personally. And then
AORUS, I think, is AORUS underscore.
Just for people who want to follow, it's AORUS
Global. Jason, you didn't put a banner.
I told you, put a banner
on your Twitter like a month
ago.
God damn it.
Sorry, I got to clean all that up.
Look at that.
It's a dark space I'm going to fix up.
You're like one of the biggest chats and smartest individuals I know in crypto.
And then I look at your Twitter page and I'm like, it's the opposite of it.
You know?
You come on here and you're so well-spoken.
People are loving you.
The comments are good.
There's 2,000 people watching you on video.
Everybody's like, yo, who is Jason?
So I'm sharing his thing.
OX Jadkins, chief commercial officer at Oros.
He's based in Hong Kong.
Check him out.
He's a guy with 142 followers, so he should probably add two zeros to that based on his input and what he knows.
But anyways, Tyler, I think you got a question for had a couple questions one quick one like so do you ever take directional bets
on tokens yeah so we um like when you say directional our strategy is broadly delta
neutral but what we're looking at is like different skews and parameters around the market it wouldn't
be like outright like we're going like leverage long certain things in aggressive size we do have discretionary parts of the business
like our ventures book is outright long projects right we're investing at very early stage so yes
we have directional positions in the firm and we have craters of varying experiences across like
really high frequency delta neutral stuff right medium-frequency where those sorts of judgment calls
start to play into it as well.
But it's not really our edge.
There are plenty of big betting hedge funds out there
that take huge directional bets.
But yeah, most of the time, we're trying to maintain delta-neutrality
so that we can continue to expand across the space
and provide liquidity in bull and bear markets.
Not good for everyone if we're ultra-long everything
and then bear market hits and we're like,
we've just lost all our money and now we can't provide liquidity
and it's even worse for everybody.
So kind of a good thing to be neutral.
And perhaps the last one,
I imagine you have to have some kind of a broad market outlook
near term, near term,
near term, longer term, as you're managing these positions
and overall trading strategy.
I think there's a lot – there's growing concern out there right now
of a double top, of top sides.
Trump going deeper into crypto, pump fund, token launch.
People are kind of adding to the list, but at the same time,
we've got this global liquidity and flux focus on growth i'm curious what's your broad outlook on the crypto
market right now if you think we're in for a top or more room to go yeah look i i probably just my
background is macro so it's kind of like a zoomed out approach so i'll probably get away from like
is 105 region the the sort of topic for this round
and then we pull back.
What I will say is the dips are going to be shallower
and shallower and shallower.
I think like the ETF news last year was this like
buy the rumour, sell the fact.
That's not a reflection of the fact that it's not good news.
It's a reflection of the fact that crypto Twitter
has the attention span of a six-year-old.
So ultimately, if you think about who can now buy exposure
that forces more buying a bitcoin
ethereum and and by proxy the rest of the space as it expands it's guys that move slow it's guys
that do quarterly investment reviews or yearly investment reviews and they have mandates like
i can't buy an etf until it's been around for two years that constant pulse will sit under the market
at all times so like am i bullish 105, 110 in the short term?
My guess is as good as yours.
Am I bullish on the fact that this space is now inevitable
and that we found product market fit
and now we've found institutional investment fit?
Yes.
And that will mean dips will be shallower
than they have been previously.
Less painful.
Even this bear market pullback that we're going back to 75K in Bitcoin didn't really feel that bad.
A lot of money has been extracted from the space because of things like pump top funnel and things like that and a lot of the bad things that have happened in this cycle.
But ultimately, it didn't really feel anywhere near as bad as what happened with FTX and the last real bear cycle that we had.
So to answer your question directly, like I am bullish on the space.
After hearing Joe yesterday, I'm super bullish on my very light Ethereum bags.
But I think there's a lot of exciting stuff coming up for firms like us
that are very finance DeFi focused to see like the potential
for what Joe was talking about, which is like a d5 resurgence on
ethereum because you've got really interesting features coming to the chain that will speed it
up make it feature parity with the fact that we're going to be able to trade on places like mega
for example that's going to be designed around being super fast for firms like us it suddenly
makes our strategies deployable on chain versus previously we only had off-chain. So I'm bullish on the overall innovation that's coming into the space.
I'm bullish on the institutional demand that will sit as a pulse constantly below the market,
not to mention all these Bitcoin, Solana, Ethereum strategies that are adding more demand again and again.
And then I'm kind of bullish on the fact that we had trended from pretty much no on-chain activity when I joined the firm
a little under four years ago.
So like 10%, 15% of our firm is now trading on-chain.
Like do I see that trend continuing?
Absolutely.
What will make that happen?
More feature parity, more things that we can do on-chain
and then more users on-chain, which I think if pump funds
raising a billion dollars, they're not doing it.
It's either they're doing it to raise a billion dollars
because of the valuation or they're doing it because they've got
something in mind that they want to build
on the platform and the brand that they've built.
So I'm excited to see what that brings.
I'm with you. I appreciate your thoughts.
Appreciate that. Of course. Anytime.
Really good thoughts, Jason. Alright, any final things you want to share with us?
No, we're on over time.
But that was really, really, really insightful, Jason.
Any last things you want to share, call out here on the Oroff side?
We need to have you more.
Yeah, I'm happy to, like, guys, long-time listener, first-time caller,
but, like, I'm happy to dial in any time you guys want to chat,
markets or there's a big launch coming up and you want to understand, like,
how to launches work or, like, what does it up and you want to understand how to launch this work
or what does it mean to get a listing on an exchange?
We can bring people on that are experts in that.
We have a pretty good group of people across the firm
that have been doing this for a long time.
So understanding market microstructure, liquidity, supply demand,
how to launch a token, how to work with exchanges,
all of those little things that a founder who's a genius building
pump.farm
doesn't need to think about as much until they're launching a token.
Happy to hop on with you guys and chat it through.
I mean, I think if I can speak to your listeners
and have a bunch of people that go a little further
than surface-level market maker bad,
I think that maybe I've added a little bit to to the space and hopefully
we can have easier conversations with people that are looking for like true help to have a
successful token launch and that's where we want to fit and what we're trying to do for the space so
yeah more than happy to guys and thank you very much for having me and letting me have
having the mic for a few minutes well appreciate you just saying hang tight if you want we're
about to give away some money yeah i'll check it it out. Let's go. Let's go. All right. The code today was pump on actually
Raffleball.xyz pump fun p-u-n-p-f-u-n mr. Sims in the studio. Let's see what you good for us
Let me log into my
Eddie out
look at that penguin
Eddie out
Eddie out
congratulations
come
come cook baby
alright Eddie Eddie out Eddie was one of the winners All right, Eddie.
Eddie, out.
Eddie was one of the winners
of one of our two highest
users on the FOMO Hour code.
So, wait, he doesn't win?
Yeah, he's basically one of our...
No, he's indefinitely, but he's one of our biggest
all-youb users. Oh, shit!
He won the other week.
Let's go! Eddie, out! Where is he, though? He's not here our biggest volume users. Oh, shit. Let's go.
Eddie out.
Where is he, though?
He's not here.
Uh-oh.
He kind of got to be here.
Eddie.
Eddie.
Eddie out. Does it default to your guest?
Well, we have a raffle bot and everybody...
So we give money away every day.
Oh, default to your guest.
To me.
You got enough money. No, default you get. To me. You got enough money.
No, no.
I'm just joking.
It sounds like he's a power user for you guys.
So you should definitely check it out.
I know, but he's not here.
Sims, where you at?
We went overtime too.
I got to go.
Yeah, that might be a part of it.
We did go over.
Yeah, we did go over.
Sorry, that was probably my bad.
No, it's not. It's awesome's not it's awesome we need to have
you on like once a week yeah dude you should be coming or you should be coming once a week for
show for show sims what do we do here happy to go us re-roll re-roll re-roll re-roll sims let's go
let's roll it back fuck it you already won oh no he's here never mind stop stop stop stop it was
the wrong phone this phone he sees the request that phone didn't see the request see that that's
crazy that's insane.
That request is on neither of the two phones I have in front of me. That's bad.
Wow. What up, Eddie?
Yeah, I made it. I was close.
So it's funny. The old phones don't show you, but the new phones does.
Eddie, what's up, man? Congratulations.
So first and foremost, you already won $500.
So that's for sure, for sure. You won $500. Congrats.
Second of all, are you watching us on video or audio?
Just audio on the Twitter space right now.
All right.
Let's do some corn raise for you here, Mr. Eddie out.
So you know the rules, right?
We're going to place $250 for you on Fartcoin.
And you have a choice to place $250 on either Solata, Ethereum, Dogecoin, or Bitcoin.
ETH has been showing good.
Let's pick ETH.
Okay.
All right.
He did ETH and...
We can't hear him.
ETH and Farcoin.
Oh, boy.
Killer combo.
ETH and Farcoin.
All right.
Check this out.
Joe Lubin's special.
Three, two, one.
All right.
Check this out.
Oh, you can can hear the song
He's still there hold on he's got a shot here
Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.
Oh, baby.
God damn.
What a tease, mate.
Oh, well.
Makes me glad I wasn't watching.
Oh, dude.
Ethereum was first until the last second.
So anyways, congratulations, Eddie.
You still win $500.
Jason from Oros, thank you so much for coming. Appreciate you. Love you, King. Tyler, it was a great show. Shout out to Mando. With that, with that win $500. Jason from Oros, thank you so much for coming.
Appreciate you.
Love you, King.
Tyler, it was a great show.
Shout out to Mando.
With that, with that, with that, we'll see y'all tomorrow morning, 10 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time for another episode of Foam Hour on Rock Radio.
Let's go. Thank you.
