This is the really good web 3 show. I'll be your host for today
My name is Eddie aka dancing Eddie and we've got a heck of a show for you guys plan today
We're gonna be talking in my opinion or at least what I expect quite a bit about founders and about some of those founders opinions and how
Well, or unwell founded some of those opinions may may be
I'm gonna pull a little bit of a bold move here and I'm gonna change the name of the space to
Founders and let's see how that plays out over the course the next few minutes in the meantime
Just give me a second here because we're gonna play some jamming tunes to get people, you know, just get things settled and rolling
So, uh, here we go. We've got summer in New York
Just realized that that song is a remix of summer in New York and definitely like as much as I love it
Personally probably a bit too heavy in terms of like the hardcore house for tonight
So I'm gonna go light on that one and just kick kick kick right into the conversation. So how we doing today?
We've got we got we got founders saying some wild stuff across the board left and right. I don't know dude
Kevin Rose just saying some whack stuff
About the pet the penguins and about the board apes and about pricing we've got which was just ludicrous
We've got Frank the other day
Talking about like oh you can or can't fight like everything that you do in this space
You're always gonna get flooded and he was talking about a product and the quality of said product and it was the quality of that
One specifically was definitely awesome. And then of course we have each Ben just like
That guy screw that guy honestly, he's going out he's buying bonkers for 500 grand
He's buying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Nakamigos
Like this guy's just insane and people are out here paying money to all of the above and I'm just I'm lost
I'm at a loss for words now
Let's uh, if you guys are in the audience and you guys are enjoying this conversation or like this topic
Do me a favor a like and a retweet will go a long way
Especially at the start of the at the space and also if you want to come up share some thoughts
Even if you just want to say come up say hello. Totally. Welcome
Ruto, how's your Monday treating you all good?
Happy Monday everyone have Memorial Day man
Yeah, it's it's been an incredible weekend. Honestly, you had a really good weekend really strong start to the week today
Felt really productive did a lot of adulting today. So it's been good man. It's been good. What about yourself?
Pretty solid day super chill got the workout in that one was killer and just you know taking it taking it easy
Saying well paying my respects so to speak to our fallen soldiers. Thank you to all you guys
I mean, that's not the best way for me to say thanks, but you get
Yeah, it's just you know taking it easy today and working on and kind of strategizing around some of the content that I want to be
How I like how I want to be doing this going forward. Honestly, I set up I have a camera
I actually have a really nice camera that I just don't use it's like it's a lumix gh4
If any of you guys know I'm talking about and it just it just sits gathering dust and I'm like, you know
What I think that there's a reasonable shot that some of you guys might want to see
Some of these spaces on video. I don't know. Would you would you would you guys watch that if I did these spaces on video?
Because I need to get it. Oh
I'm I'm considering it and I might get like no
I might get like a road caster type setup so I can have even better audio because I already have the microphone
I already have everything. I just need the mixer basically. So I think I might do that and
Start re-streaming to YouTube stuff like that. So planning a little bit around that and just generally, you know, looking into that
Yeah, I mean if there's some opportunity there, I mean we we get some
We get some pretty heavy hitters in the space every once in a while
It'd be cool to document a lot of this stuff not just in audio format, but video form
Yeah, Eddie. I don't know if that was a rhetorical question
But I probably wouldn't watch it right now
But I think kind of what Ruda was alluding to that like if you look at content creating from NFTs and web 3
It's so small compared to any other kind of even collectible let alone any other topic
But that it might not necessarily be the case moving forward, right? So like if you're one of the few people doing
Be video format and continue and endure in this space. You're gonna be a first mover in that right?
So like the people, you know, what is it?
You know for oak show does it a couple of other shows because they know that if this takes off that's that's the way to go
So yeah, I would do it if you have the if you have the setup for it and you're willing to do it. Hell yeah
I just had to make sure I always have a fresh cut on deck because I've been basically my haircuts as of the past
Three four months have circulated around whether or not I'm going to an NFT event in the next three days
So like I got a haircut before in a TLA
I got one before NFT NYC and I think I also got one before in FC
My M or a Bitcoin my M is that is that is that the only time you care?
Okay, it's just it just perfectly coincided and I was like might as well, you know
Hold off an extra week long time in between cuts. No, not really. It ended up being like three four weeks in between
And it was like it worked out perfectly
Like I got to go every I got to go every two to three weeks three weeks
Like we're Hispanic we get like a haircut. Well, you don't have a fade but we get a haircut like every week or two
No, I get it I get a fade every time too man, it's just for me
It's not even about it's just I just you know, take pride in like, you know
How I present myself how I look and stuff. So if I'm looking like a little crazy a little disheveled
You know what if you look good you feel good man
Well, and let's let's say hello to some of these faces that we've got on stage
And again, if you're in the audience, you want to come say hello. Literally if you just want to say hello
First things first. I want to toss over to the lovely lady herself. What's going on Z. Anna. What's going on?
How you doing this Monday?
Hi guys. So first off you'll hear
Lovely fun with my nephew in the background. So excuse his little cute cute sounds. Um, I'm good
I'm hanging out excited for the topic Eddie. Love it. I'm here as well. Rua. What's up girl in the verse
Honey, I haven't spoken to you in a minute, but it is such a pleasure to be sharing a stage Joey
Good evening, espresso English to everyone in the audience. It's so awesome. I'm ready to pop this night off. Let's go
Let's pop it baby girl, what's going on? How's your Monday?
Eddie and Ruto starting this space with like we're gonna do some video content was like the
Talk at V con on the community stage. That's all I talked about was that we have to be doing more video content
So I'm really happy to hear it
Reach out if you guys have questions, obviously, uh, I know you guys know Chris as well
Yeah, so excited to hear it. Obviously flooding founders
I'm I'm excited to have this
Oh, yeah, I'm so ready. I'm sick and tired of it. Honestly, like it's like all they get this
It's almost like a lot of founders get flooded
And then it's like oh well
It's just fun and it's almost come full circle where people will just like needlessly defend FUD and they're like, ah, dude
Just relax like it's stop flooding. You're just funny. You're just funny
Yes, that's sometimes FUD is based when I say base not like I mean like not baseless
Like some FUD is baseless and that's stupid
But some FUD is base and I'm just I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it. I don't hear from Joey
Left you hang in there little suspense
The case you were wondering it's game seven heat Celtics tonight
Not that everybody cares cuz you're all crypto and energy nerds, but it's gonna be exciting
I have no idea what you're talking about. I
Know I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm joking. Joey real real fast question. I'm actually curious
Yeah to any this is to you Joey and also anyone in the audience
I want to give you up or anyone in the audience
Give me a thumbs up because I'm genuinely curious if this is you does anyone here listen to Twitter spaces
focused on gambling slash sports betting slash picks
All right, let's see the audience thumbs downs across it literally I don't gamble no one Wow
That's fascinating like you know, the only reason I bring that up
Sorry, I don't I don't mean to completely cut you off, but and I'm gonna get back to you in a sec
It's just something I was it just came into my mind over the past few days
Why is that one of the most performant things in terms of TV like they have whole TV shows about
Gambling and it's huge segments
On like what are your picks for the day and it like it's not it's not a thing in Twitter spaces. It's interesting. I
Mean bar stool has like they're they're one of their most watched shows is
Big cat especially during football season with Big Cat and
Jersey Jerry and the other crazy dude who I can't think of
But yeah, I mean I I mean
You know, I think I think the reason why is
YouTube and twitch and stuff
I think people like to see it right because typically there's like highlights playing and there's like, you know a breakdown of stuff
And there's graphics. So I think like, you know, they're like, oh, so I think that's maybe why it's not on Twitter
Cuz let's be honest one of the big failures of Twitter right now is the fact that there is no video
They have that live streaming service. Like if you go to create dot Twitter dot
Com or whatever like you can
But there's no like discovery page really for like the live streaming and I and I would venture to bet that that's one of
Elon's big focuses moving forward is going to be
Because when you look at where Twitter ranks and active monthly users every platform above them has video
Like every platform that ranks higher is some form of video content
So I would imagine that he's he's definitely going to be adding
Yeah video content. I want to comment on
Real quick on the title of the spaces and in general about this
Feel like we need to start giving more constructive feedback and
Versus like just ripping on people
And I've been guilty of this in the past
So I'm not gonna say like I'm you know, I'm all high and mighty and you should follow me
The space has gotten so small at this point that anything anybody says pretty much goes like viral
in a sense, right because there's only so many people in this space and
There's a lot of founders that
genuinely just don't know any better and
Instead of us and I'm not talking to you up to you
Eddie and Ruto because I know you guys are probably just engagement farming the shit out of this
type title of the Twitter spaces
Just feel like the situation that happened with Kevin Rose again, right? Like it, you know, he did a he did a
AMA or whatever you want to call it with like thread guy and I listened to some of it like a ton of people got up and
Literally like roasted him but in a good way, right? Like there were people that were generally like like giving him constructive feedback
because I feel like all we're if all we're gonna do is
Then we're not really doing any service to the space as a whole and helping push it forward
Like some of these people genuinely need help like like I hope Kevin Rose is listening
But not to me because he doesn't give a shit about me
But in general and just be like dude, you need to go out and hire a PR manager
You need to hire somebody who's your chief communications officer
Well, well, then he needs to start using them because he clearly is not running
He's clearly not like talking to his speechwriter or practicing whatever the fuck
he's supposed to say and his press secretary is the one that should be like
communicating because the dude just keeps digging himself like holes and then he tries to like
Backtrack and digs a bigger hole and then he tries to back it just it's getting to the point where like
These you know Frank deleted that tweet yesterday
And then you know and then there was like this other thing where it's like own up to your tweets
And I saw something where Kevin Rose was tweeting at Frank or Frank was tweeting at somebody about like stand by your tweets or something
That was Frank told Kevin to tweet that one for it. Okay. Okay, but yeah, I just like I I don't know
I'm just getting increasingly and and then you add in this whole Benny thing
Making 20 million dollars and there's like genuine people in this space. I don't know
I'm just I'm getting really down on the quality of people
20 million dollars and just random garbage NFTs. Well
Actually, you know what? I should say garbage because that would piss off those communities and then they'll come in and tell me that
They're not garbage. I mean the bonkers and the Nakamigos that he's buying definitely garbage
Which yeah, I mean crazy, but it's just it's just dirty money
Or bad money getting thrown at bad money getting thrown at bad like Ash Robin
Put out a tweet and it was it was probably just a joke and engagement farming
But he was like would you rather put your teeth in I would rather put my I would rather send my teeth to Ben
Dotty then buy a moon bird, right?
But the reality is neither none of us want to do either of those things, right? Like we we want real
businesses like we want to get behind people like Luca like Gary V
like I don't even know how many people are genuinely
Businessmen in this space anymore at this point
Well, I want to hear from some of the other voices on stage and
Also, if I didn't get a chance to say hello to you and welcome you in sorry
We're just gonna dive straight into this one. Also, uh, if at any point I do rotations
I apologize just requests. I'll get you back up. It's it's you know, it's it's not that deep, bro
I've had some people like flip out on me DMS after getting rotated and I'm like, ah, sorry
I'll be making space shortly. The heat game starts in like 15 minutes. So I'll head off stage and somebody else
Also though here's a quick tip for people that are a spaces speakers
Don't just remove yourself in anticipation of making space for other people just for it because you're like, oh, I'm trying to be nice
No, that's the spaces host job. Your job is to just stay there because that helps the space
I actually want to get thoughts up here at some point because especially if we're talking fudding founders
It'd be nice to get a founder on who's endured his fair share of FUD and understands, you know the battles
But let's get through some of these hands
I'm gonna start off things with actually a face that I don't often get to say hello to Don Frito. What's going on, dude?
What's going on Eddie? How are you doing today? I'm doing good feeling. All right, have it yourself
I'm doing wonderful. It's something I'm fun. They get on the grill cook some asada for the game, but it's Monday
I love what Joey saying like the biggest thing is we have to start addressing the concerns with founders and
Giving them constructive criticism because I feel like a lot of it's like people say it's fun
But I think it's I think it's things we all need as humans to progress to learn from things that we have done and
For moonbirds, I think it's just a complete shit shit to be honest. I
Feel like they have not done anything PR related to structure anything just like leisure and they're pretty much
Realizing every time they do something is just a bad turn for business or a bad move and it makes it pretty bad
But it's like one of you guys gonna realize it and make a new
Direction or decision or plan to move forward to stop having these bad PR press release, you know or announcements
not the same thing for leisure, you know and it's sad to see and
You know what he said about the the Ben Ethan versus the
Nakamigos, I think everybody's just so
FOMO and into everything. They're not really realizing what's going on and what's a good project everything
I think everybody's just buying the hype
To be honest, which is pretty bad personally
I wouldn't just trade anything if I'm very unsure about what to do what to invest
I would just not trade at all and I don't understand why people are gonna keep throwing been each
Liquidity if he's not gonna do anything sufficient
Enough for you to mean and that's the sad thing we're seeing in the market because like bro
He's just pulling more liquid out more liquid out and he's not doing anything really as a business or as a project
How are people going in on the third pre-sale? How are people doing that?
Like because they're drinking their own urine. They're so desperate
It's my analogy from last night about being lost at sea and you're out of water and you're like, what do I do?
I'll just drink my own urine. This is literally where we're at at the bear market right now
But it's still sad like you still think that people would have certain some level of like
Competent brain power to be able to be like hey, you know, you know if he's if he's just launched his third pre-sale and in less
He might launch the fourth one in a week or two
And everything that I just put into this one are just gonna go to zero
I mean Don before I go to some of these other hands, you got a quick thought there. I
Feel like at this point he has an addiction bro, like he's one of those people who's like just hop around creating stuff
Anything he's promised and anything like that and you see that with a lot of founders
They create one thing and then like they create something new they create something new
You know, it's like I don't know speaking of sports, right?
We were talking about sports earlier speaking of sports
If anyone makes like NFL fantasy teams the best part about making an NFL fantasy team is the draft
So you draft the team in the first like in August and then you spend September to January
ignoring the team's existence
The best part is just getting things started and then the worst part is actually maintaining it
But you know, I feel like that's true a lot of things
Like I know people who like built computers and had like a great time like picking out which GPU and like all this other stuff
And I put these things together and I put that it's gonna make this awesome comp and then they don't ever use it
We're picking an audio system, you know
I picked this amplifier like just creating something almost kind of like like back in the day dude when you're like grinding for whitelist
Like it was amazing for the chase. And now you just have like this NFT in your wallet and you're like, all right
I guess I got it. What do I do?
And then you sell it and then you chase the next one
Get it the hell out of your wallet, that's what you do
Sarah, what do you think? I mean that brings me to the whole the whole point
I was making or trying to make earlier in thread guys space which is
They're very few people who are collecting because they enjoy the project or or the goal the company
They are collecting to flip or they're buying to flip. There's no collecting and holding right like there
I mean there are people with rooms full of out my dad for example weird
He has a whole room or his room filled with like crackerjack prizes from like the 1920s
Right. He's not he's not flipping that for 20x
He's going to the crackerjack convention and giving a talk about it. This is a real guys like
anyway, I'm just saying I think maybe this space is a little misguided and maybe like
you know, like I understand that he's misstepped but
We need to get we need to get to a place where people aren't just like using each other in this way
And and really be enjoying the art or the collection or the vision for whatever the project is or the company. Yeah
You know, I actually you know how I know if I'm buying something because I actually want it
I know because I will hold just generally like one
Because if I want like for example, I bought recently a dead Jira ordinal from from good from good Jira
And I just have one and that's it and I'm just like it doubled
I literally started a FOMO run which was hilarious
I like I bought it at point one three after it had been trailing down for like a week and
No one was buying them and immediately after I bought ten other people bought which was hilarious
You should put that in your Twitter bio because you've mentioned it on every spaces since so funny
I'm laughing like I lack about it almost every time I see it
But like I only have one and I have only one of those
I'm looking to probably get one can pie panda at some point and I'm probably gonna get like one kaiju at some point where I'm
Not like looking not looking to flip but it's just more so I'm actually just genuinely interested. Let's toss over to begin. What's going on?
What's up? Yeah, so a couple things. So first I think it was Joey mentioned first of like yeah, Kevin
He's like a PR team. I'm actually gonna disagree because I don't they wouldn't hire to PR team
He's gonna end up being too corporate. It's already too corporate. We don't need more like corporate in the loop
You know, we need someone who definitely can like talk and like be the voice and like what things would go through
I just be scared. They're gonna get a PR team
They're gonna talk to a 16Z and it's gonna be the most terrible corporate communication you've ever heard
Next I mean I got a discus Sarah on like talking about collectibles versus like we're talking like moonbirds here specifically, right?
It's totally different like I come I am a collector. That's I got in this space
The difference is is that moonbirds cost 2.5 e right a cracker Jack you get it little you told you get it free in
A cracker Jack for nothing, right? So a lot of like collectible fields
They started off as buying one thing the value is, you know, it's a baseball card
It's just as valuable the baseball card is when this thing grows over time. It didn't start off saying hey guys
We're gonna sell you a baseball card for five thousand dollars and we're gonna raise money on top of that
And here's a road map and things that we're gonna build around this and then that not coming to fruition
So it's just it's not just like collectibles and moving on
You know if you compare to like other worlds where they're they have heavy collectible markets like Pokemon people expect Pokemon games on the regular
They expect anime they expect media that these things don't come out
The holders do get pissed and they are critical of every game
So they have to complete other tasks as well, too
So I feel like it's silly to be like, oh, do you like the art just hold it?
It's like no, no, no, you raise nine figures, right?
You got to do something with it. And if you're gonna keep making mistakes, no big deal
But you gotta be able to talk to me. So that's all excited here Eddie
Yeah, can I just respond real quick? So I'm not saying it needs to become like corporate like Microsoft Apple kind of PR
But like every time Kevin Rose gets on a Twitter spaces or post any kind of announcement
It just makes it's like literally cringe. So maybe he just needs an assistant
I don't know but like he needs something he needs somebody that he can like hey
I'm gonna go on Twitter spaces and talk about how V friends launched stuffed animals and Toys R Us and
They failed but pudgy penguins launched toys on Amazon and they were successful. But meanwhile, I don't even know anything about him
I'm just gonna say and I'm gonna talk about how bored ape is down worse than moonbirds
But I've never done any research or run the numbers
Like somebody she'd be like, hey dumbass go on Chad GPT and ask them so you actually have some
Information before you go and talk about it. That's all I'm saying
In fairness, he actually does have someone he has
Stevie which I invited her I invited Stevie to see if she would come up today
So hopefully hopefully she comes cuz well, he's not listening to her
Don't know I feel like I feel honestly
I feel like their entire team is a bit misguided if I'm gonna be honest with you like I love Stevie
I love Justin. I love Kevin Rose as like as humans
But I just feel like their whole team is misguided like every single time their messaging is almost always
Universally wrong like they as a collective have poor messaging, but that's just me. I'm gonna toss some other hands here
We got jappy. What's going on?
Another fun day in web 3, right?
So I think I think a lot of the shit with Kevin Rose
Gets pulling out of proportion just because of where moonbirds is now
Do I think it was a smart take at all?
Not at all. Do I think it should be this big of a deal that he said something that people disagree with?
I also think it's a little ludicrous that there's a spaces with a thousand people being like why would you say such a thing?
Like I get the point he was trying to make and he's just having a conversation with his holders
And it continues to happen where like bigger names like that
Get like Joey was saying before like footed into the ground instead of like, you know
Maybe that's not the best take to have right now Kevin
Well people are trying to figure out what you're what you're doing with moonbirds. What was the um, jappy real quick?
Do you remember what the?
Lucanets did something I totally forget what it was. He was talking about something
What was what did he get flooded for super hard?
Because you just didn't know how like a certain token omik worked
I want to say like three months ago. Do any of us know what I'm talking about?
Oh Frank didn't know how ENS worked like three months ago. Didn't he?
Didn't ENS worked and didn't bit boy crypto didn't bit boy crypto not know how to use like uni swap or something
Like a couple weeks ago and everybody was like, how come you have them?
I'm just saying Luca Luca definitely
Said something I mean it wasn't like that major and he was he was asking questions about like how something worked
I think it was only about a month ago or so. I don't remember exactly what it was either
But like people literally responded to over like here's how this goes
I think it might even have something to do with the wordinals
But people were responding and like educating instead of like you're a fucking idiot for being in this space and not knowing what to do
You know, I didn't get a chance to go up to thread guys
But the one question I actually want to ask K Rose was it was just like
Why does he think that they only miss from like a social perspective?
Like why why do the moonbirds only have bad announcements?
It's not like there's nothing that they do that everyone's like, let's go
Yes, finally like it's always oh my god
They dropped the ball again and like they they put out announcements that should be objectively good
but just always like for example that like
that recent I want to say that partnership with like a
Metaverse type platform, whatever it was was like there was nothing that was objectively bad about it yet
Subjectively, it was a horrible announcement that led to a lot of thought that came out including from yours truly
So like I didn't have a Spotify deal that too which should be objectively good, but everyone's like
This Spotify deal, how dare that like this stupid, you know what I mean?
Like they just they simply can't hit and I want it's the lack. It's the lack and poor communication
That's what I know. I know. I mean, I that's what I that's what I think it is among other things
But also I want to know from him
Why he thinks that is but anyway, let's keep things rolling through some of these hands girl
I want to hear from you. What's going on a girl?
Hey guys. Oh my god so much to unpack. I kind of already forgot my point, but
think the difference here is that
Kevin Rose is the founder and we we just have a lot of expectations and we need to
That's really truly what it is
So I understand everyone's concept of like what he's trying to do whatever
but the problem here is how he's speaking to all of us and I think that's why it bothers everyone and
I would argue that we should be talking about this because yes, there are a thousand people in this room because
This is important. We can't have founders
Talking shit about other people and then coming back and saying I'm sorry
I have actually a lot of respect for them. I own some of them that that's just that, you know, we can't do that
not at this stage not in a bear market, so
think that's why we're bothered it's because it's Kevin Rose and we
Let's not kid ourselves guys people who bought into moonbirds
we found out that it was led by Kevin Rose people spent a lot of money and
Expected a lot just like they expected the same thing with Gary Vee, right? Anyway, so I'm just saying like
In moonbirds case I do think a lot of the holders
Bought into it because it was Kevin Rose. So, you know, we have to take that
You'll hear so many of them like
Again, I like them as people but their takes are so just so bad like yeah
almost like drones that are still still on on the on the pro bullish moonbirds train hardcore
Spouting the same the same homonyms that they're just empty like
It's it's amazing. It's amazing
But that's fine. So like I like I'm here saying, you know those who want to keep holding on to moonbirds. I get it
But right now like because I'm just hearing everyone's comments, right?
I'm sort of like regrouping all my thoughts like I think it's important and I think we owe it to ourselves to talk about it
So I'm okay with this this topic tonight
Just think we were expecting a lot more from him, you know the same way we gave
You know, we gave the doodles a hard time about not communicating I think
Yeah, it's almost as if he does look I will say I
Politician you see on TV gets coaching. I think some people just need coaching right the same way how
Right, like Eddie you're gonna start doing some video. You might want like, you know a few pointers
I think no, I'm just saying right like I think people owe it to themselves
So maybe go out and get a coach and speak about it before they're gonna go on a space
Because of who they are it's just what it is guys, I'm sorry
I have to take this take no, you know, it's fair
And I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to Ruto in a sec a hundred percent girl
And I think we do see needs some more coaches across the board here. We'll also say I got a DM
Which thank you pep AMF for for reminding me Luca was asking about stable coins and he was like
Why can't we just make a stable coin? That's just perpetually stable basically and we're like, uh, that's not how it works Luca
But nice try Ruto, what's going on?
No, I think what a girl was mentioning as well
Is that a lot of people buy into a lot of founders especially if they have pretty prominent, you know
Web 2 backgrounds or successful businesses that they've ran in the past
So we see that we saw with like Ryan from 9gag
For example, as soon as he came out mentioning that he was working on some web 3
Activations, I mean a lot of people were super bullish because you think you look at someone like that
They're like, oh shit. This guy is obviously capable and competent
so, you know, there's no way that they're gonna fumble and I
Think we've seen it over the span of the last year or however long it's been
That no matter what kind of resume you have
Of course announcing that you're gonna be doing a NFT project is pretty bullish
If you have a track record of being pretty competent and executing business ideas
But again, man, anybody is susceptible to fumbling the ball, man
Anybody can fumble the ball the difference between a lot of you know, some the successful founders and the ones are maybe kind of
Steering further away from their mission statement
I think it's the the ability to kind of get back up when you fall and recoup and rally the troops again
So that's kind of my take on it
Now everyone's good and everyone and their mother has a take here like this is among the most hands we've seen on the stage
All right. Let's keep things rolling. I've not yet heard from nor actually
I don't know if you've come up on the stage before maybe I'm wrong salamander. What's going on? How are you doing tonight?
What's good everyone? I see some familiar faces ruto's Yana Joey. What's up, Joey?
I think that engagement farming post was actually yours. So don't try to hide it. I'm just joking
You know if web 3 was a reality show shit. I need a subscription right now
to kind of add on to this like topic about you know, obviously the whole Kevin Rose thing happened today and
It's just like it's it's frustrating because you're just like we poured so much money into well
I haven't I don't have a moonbirds
But most people have obviously poured money into like certain projects and founders and at this point like come on Kevin
You've been in the space for about, you know, a year and a half
And that's just kind of like the tedious part
I know that like, you know, we're trying to make the space better with trying to reconstructing founders to the right path
But it's like how much more can you kind of like, you know fuck up, right?
I don't know like that's just kind of my take on it
And it's like don't come into this space if you're not ready
Especially if you want to be a founder because I've been part of a lot of projects where I'm just like, you know
It's cool your web 2 and all and you know, maybe 50% web 3 but at the same time
You're kind of like ruining everyone's experience here and we're trying to build something
I think everyone here is mostly pretty active and I see, you know, everyone on the stage
everyone's tweeting, you know trying to actually make this place a better place but
You know, I think the reality show continues
The reality show definitely does continue. We're definitely
No, Eddie, I think you need to launch like a Netflix subscription for like web 3
Like I would I would pay $50. I wouldn't even pay like the family. I would pay the family package
Would you you pay the family package? You you don't you're not here sharing passwords. Are you Eddie? Let's do it. I'm down
I want to be a part of this project a Netflix
And Joey's gonna do like the Italian like Floridian
Barish all right, let's keep things rolling. I want to hear from Eric. What's going on Eric? That was rude. No, no
Not rude. We're gonna go to Eric and then go to Eddie
And he had to go on bro the good good to see you yeah, you know
I don't know how you have a hundred million dollars plus in funding and fuck it up this bad
They didn't deliver on one thing right like moonbirds like I love them for all the work
Like Ryan Carson's had a huge name like, you know, and then like, you know all these guys and then
it literally was like from proof conference to you know selling your token with IP rights and then
Being like people are forking it. I guess we'll just go see CEO randomly and then being like you don't have IP rights
You know, it's almost like you know, how some people say like roadmaps don't matter like proof is a living testament to that
Right, like besides Brails
You know which moonbirds had nothing to do with right like the whole moonbirds ecosystem and I don't want to say it's
Vaporware, but it's a company that really hasn't put forth anything
Was kind of betting on this whole we're gonna host events and be
Kind of like the vistage of web 3 which is like a professional executive group, right?
We're gonna we're gonna be this place that does that and we're a part of all these stuff and they didn't
deliver on any of it and I think I
Don't know. I think Kevin Rose is like out of touch
You know like those CEOs that are so you see it a lot of times in sales
Organizations where the the CEO is so far away from the sales floor
He like loses touch on like how the real world actually operates on the sales floor, right? He just starts saying
Random things and he doesn't he doesn't like actually
Understand how that tangibly gets done and how that filters down, right? And so it's like
He just seems like that where it's like, okay
Well like this or that and it's like my brother like are you working on anything?
Like anything at all like anything that like even if you like launch the platform and it fucking died right away
Like at least something, you know, like shoot off a rocket. Let us like show proof of life
You know, like and I don't I don't mean that but like there
Besides fanny packs, right?
Which anyone who has any a five-year-old to figure out how to throw up a merch line that could deliver what they did on
No offense, right like once you've been in this game long enough
Like you see how everybody can white label pretty much any product in existence, right?
And throw their logo on it or or buy five dollar cabs and say all of a sudden we're selling, you know
X wine or whatever, right? Like you see enough iterations on this stuff
But with with moonbirds, you didn't see anything
you you kind of saw a promise for a bunch of stuff and then it was like a
Bunch of balloons that like some kid just came along with like a pin. It was like pop. Nope. That one's gone
Nope, we don't do conferences. Sorry Marcus. Not good. Sorry there go your IP rights and it's like Jesus Christ like
you know, it's like who's running this fucking thing like a train without a conductor man like
It's and it's not even about PR like this PR can only run so well, right?
Like we always just say that about Trump, but like imagine trying to contain somebody like that
Like how do you run cover for that level of like miss execution, right?
Like that even that PR person is gonna hate their life. And I remember like
You know, there's a few people Eddie. Weren't you gonna be like on the moonbirds council or we're gonna consider it or something?
I was having to deal with that shit show bro. Imagine this is a little bit
I was like, I I just don't
Like I could basically I looked at my moonbird which was worth market value around like 40 at that time
and I was like I could spend more of my ever-waiting time trying to submit my thoughts to
People that just don't on just don't get it
or I could just take this for each by two beans a pudgy put a little pudgy and
a seal and I was like, wow that just makes so much more sense and that's exactly what I did. So
You could you could you could see why why I just moved on, you know
Was that the best round trip on an NFT you've ever done or have you ever round trip something more effectively than that moonbirds?
No, that was it that was that one was definitely my biggest round trip, but
Everyone's like, oh my god, dude, you held that one through the they were all the hot like I get it
I bought another one at the set like within five minutes of buying that one
And sold that one near the top
So I am still ultimately well in the profit of my moonbird trip
Just to remind everyone because everyone always likes to make fun of me. I out traded you on moonbirds. Anyway, let's keep things rolling
That was so on humble but I just have to say let's keep things rolling I want to hear from golden
Hey, I don't think this guy deserves any attention. I think he's irrelevant at this point
I think the only reason why people like to shit on him is because he has as Eric said over a hundred million dollars in
The war chest just apt it up
So he apt it up he goes in there and he
Apologizes and comes back a month a couple months later. It does the same thing and a couple months later
It does the same thing and it's like, okay, who cares about this guy? Really?
I don't who cares about him. Only reason why his project isn't that zero?
I see the honor giving me thumbs down, but I don't really care about that either
Only reason why his projects at zero is because his VCs are holding up the floor price literally. That's it
So, you know, it doesn't matter how much money you have in a war chest if you have an incompetent management team and
Same similar situation is happening with the doodles and
A similar situation likely will happen with you go when the other side inevitably fails
So having a war chest when people say things like don't fade
You don't fade Kevin Rose
Well, I guess nobody says don't pay Kevin Rose anymore
But people did say that a year and a half ago don't fade doodles
They got Pharrell and they got you a million. Oh
They still say that about Kevin Rose
They don't they don't say don't fade they say if he fails it is an indictment of web 3 and that to me is like
What the hell are you? Yeah, whoever says that
Needs to get their head checked
But the the point here is having a giant war chest doesn't equal success
People need to understand appreciate that and this is one of the lessons and there will be many more lessons in this space
And so when people say don't fade x y and z yeah, you can but you can be skeptical
Okay, and you can be critical but the bottom line is who cares
About this guy really at this point who cares?
Quite a lot of people and regardless we are going to have to care about it in large part because that war chest is not just gonna be deleted
It's not like we could be like, all right
Let's just refund that because it's clear that you don't know what you're doing
So let's just take that 70 mil plus or whatever it is back and just like, you know
Either redistribute it or for you know, send it over to Lake Luca cuz Luca like no, you can't do that
So he's he's got the money and he's gonna be around with said money
For however long he was talking about 17 years of runway not too long ago
That's how long we're gonna have to be talking about it. That's so crazy
It's so crazy for me to cut try and comprehend or fathom
a war chest at that size and again
There's there's a ton of projects who have a shit ton of money too that no one
They're they're so bad at marketing. I think that they're completely under the radar. I mean people forget about
Fuck dude, what's what was the name of it? Who's who's the team that did PXN ghosts again? Oh
Oh, I know what you're talking about. Why can't they were like they were like a future blue chip back in 2021
Yeah, it was like the chest the crate with the boxes
I forget I cannot for the life of me remember their name
But people seem to forget that dance of usually they easily have over 50 60 million dollars in
Theirs as well, and I don't think I've even seen a tweet from them in like three months. So I
Mean, no one talks about that shit
Think of projects like care for you. All right, I mean, yeah
Think of projects like that. They had they had over 20 million that they raised 10 15 million dollars that they raised
Like that that's kind of the issue that that's at hand here. Anyways, no verse. It was called Nana
Was dude nanoverse. Yeah, bro. I remember I wanted one so bad at like eight East and I was like damn it
God, I want so bad and then they dropped PXN project
I thought was gonna make it like I generally thought they're gonna make it and then they they super didn't make it
So I still like the art though. Shout out to the artist. But yeah, let's go to some more hands, man. My bad
You know, let's do that. I'm gonna go talk to a ham. We haven't seen yet. Matic. What's going on, dude?
Haven't been up in here for a while
Ruto's did something earlier
He said Ryan. This is his name is Ray at mainland Ruto. Come on now
But um, dude, I just wanted to I just wanted to come up and and like obviously we're talking about moonbirds and whatnot
So yeah, I don't really talk about it too often
But I wanted to bring the light to why Ray brought up Ruto like
Ruto brought up Ray coming from like you said we have to the the biggest factor for me is why?
I was keeping eyes on mainland so hard is because he launched and did like
The the full freemen to to absolutely just submit his name in the space. He proved
From zero that he was gonna build and execute and I think like the more founders
Learn from that like even Nathan sitting up here thought I can guarantee you he's watched
Ray Ray from mainland is running at a huge loss man that dude come into the space and figured out the hardware
He swept the shit out of gutter cats. He swept the shit out of cry juice
He has been out and done it like we all did and he's learned and he's turned it into positivity and he's absolutely delivered
So all founders should learn from that man. No cat that dude's fucking killing it
Also, just to be honest for a second as much as I love what Ray is up to
If you want to pump your floor launch a reasonable meme coin that's associated with your project
That's surely one way to do it and it's definitely gonna work
Definitely been working for captains as much as I do what they're up bromatic Mac, dude. Do you want to know why?
Everyone's so bullish on Ray. It's in this one simple once one sentence
He fucking tell me gets it
He gets it. Oh, and I don't I can't explain it deeper than that then then he just gets it
And if you don't understand what I'm saying, then you probably don't have it either. So that's that's the way I look exactly
Yeah, well, dude, I totally I get it. I
Totally agree before I sit down anything's for the things for the stage
But yeah 100% agree Ray completely gets it again
Like I said, the reason he gets it is cuz he came in and he learned on his own with his own bag of eight
Not a project funded bag of eight where he just got rekt and the project suffered
He come in with his own wallet and and brought the tops man
It was bull run speck and you know, like all projects are done. So he learned the hard way
Absolutely built and fueled himself off that and came through and just keeps delivering man. It's insane like watching it
It's just it's like watching a movie. So
I want to see more of that shit. I want to see people come in have the experience behind them launch them free shit and
Turn it into value. That's what founders should be aiming at doing because royalties aren't shit now. There's no such thing
Anyway, I'm gonna keep things rolling. But before I do so if you guys are enjoying the space quick reminder
I like and retweet do go a long way. So on the bottom, right?
You see that purple button if you could like retweet and let us know
Who's your actual favorite founder right now? And
Yeah, I'm not gonna ask people to tweet like who's your least favorite founder, although that would be hilarious
Actually, you know them because it's hilarious. I'm gonna do it
Just put it because I don't want this to turn into where we're just shaming a bunch of people man
I say pick pick your favorite founders and give give us some reasons why you're you know, you're so bullish on them
I think that's a much better constructive way to put out content for us
Although if you want to satirically say who your least favorite founder is and have a funny comments go for that
But let's not just have the cut the comments just be like this is which founder we're gonna shit on for the day. No
Hey, hey guys. So really quick. My first comment is golden
Cared about my thumbs down because you mentioned it. So just gonna kind of throw that out there
Um, so really quick in regards to and the reason why I thumbed down specifically was because
Granted yes, you know, we shouldn't care but we in fact actually should
Disappointing when you kind of do have founders who have made a financial impacts like Kevin Rose has on the space and
Have just consistently or continuously made promises to the space
Even similar to the promises that he mentioned in his own space prior to I believe Fred guys
You know when he made a point to say these are promises that we need to complete before Q4 or by the end of Q4
Right, so I mean we're about almost halfway in the year and really nothing has been done on their end
So we absolutely should care and it is something that should be discussed and an appropriate
Like manner such as this. So yeah, that was that was my thumbs down
and my take was because it just
I know Eddie you're saying that you you love them as people and they're great and that's that's awesome
Right when you're working with someone you can have a personal relationship with them and then a work relationship
Work wise it just seems like it's consistently dropping the ball, right? It just seems like a massive disconnect
You know, although I do see their team from the most part seems to be pretty active on Twitter
I don't really I want to know
What their level of communication outside of their inner circle is, you know
And I know Jaffee just kind of made a comment saying like I don't think that
This should be taken out of proportion or made as a bigger deal
But I think from the grander side of things it is a big deal
Like you're mentioning a toy store that went out of business how long ago like, you know what I'm saying?
Like just kind of stay up with the times and stay up to date
If not, if you're incapable of doing that because you're quote unquote working behind the scenes or you're you're you're working in silence
Make sure you're you make it a point that your team is on point with what's up to date
Outside and inside of your world, right?
So I just I I'm kind of overhearing the same things
I didn't hear thread guys space and I should probably listen in but I did
Listen back to his entire previous space and then there was a lot of contradiction where it was like
We have a lot of things that we still have yet to unfold
But we're still trying to figure out the new thing and pop that off. I'm like, hold on new thing
My guy you've got like a Rolodex of information and things that you still need to
Reveal to the space or reveal to your holders, right? So
Those are my takes just the massive disconnect is it's quite frustrating and again
I'm not even a proof or moonbird holder, but when you know so many people who have these expectations
But you just have a team whom I can't really speak on personally
But just seem just as disconnected as Kevin Rose seems to be I am hoping that someone
Eddie I know that you reached out to Stevie. Hopefully she can maybe shed some light on maybe what it's like kind of
experiencing or the conversations that she has prior to Kevin Rose hopping on these spaces because
It doesn't seem like anything has changed from the Kevin Rose space that you held
How long ago it was like several months ago to now like it really doesn't feel like anything is
It felt like this as I was listening to the thread guy. I was just getting like
Flashbacks, I was like, it's the same space. It's literally like I'm pretty sure he was like we have so many things
We want to show you guys and then I listen to his space and he's like we have so many things
You have to like, you know get done for you guys
Right, like that so many promises and I'm like dude, nothing has literally changed, right?
You would think that with that amount of money you would be able to hire and this is no shot at their team or anything
Capable team that's able to accomplish what is to be done in the space
So yeah, that's that's my take my opinion. However
But I'll pass it back over to you Eddie
I'm gonna toss the Joey real fast cuz that wave means he's got something and we're gonna miss it
So I kind of like I wanted to some to who was it before said this
But I kind of want I would like to spit in the narrative a little from like more of a like
From a negative conversation. Like I said earlier to more of a positive conversation and talk more about like
What is it that we like Ray was mentioned with nine gag, right?
We've talked about and if you didn't tune into the and I don't mean to you know
Talk about somebody else's show but the Friday show with
Captain and Bart and NFT bark and Steve with Luca if you didn't turn into that one
You need to listen in because Luca was on it, right? Like what is it as as we we're all consumers, okay
We're not investors. There is no
Fiduciary duty from any of these founders to make us money. Okay, there's nothing in the terms and conditions
That says if you buy this NFT you are going to make money, right?
Like we all have to understand that because a lot of times people are expecting that like their job as founders is
To make us money and that is not their job, right?
Whatever it is that they're saying they're going like so for example pudgy penguins, right?
They have a licensing deal with so many holders for these toys where they're going to get a percentage of it
But there's no there outside of that
There's no fiduciary duty for any of the other holders to make them money at this point, right?
They don't have contracts with all those other holders
So I would like to change the narrative and talk about like what is it that we we were looking for or want?
From founders like who's doing a good job at communication. Who's doing a good job at building new technology
Who's good at delivering on products, right? Like because as consumers we have the power
We have the money if we stop giving money
To founders that we don't think are doing a good job or will do a good job or have a checkered history
Then things will change but if we keep giving money to the same that's not gonna happen
We just we just saw a stranger cartoon guy on the internet raised like eight million dollars
Yeah, but Bud Light's a perfect example look look at look at what's happening with Bud Light
Look at what's happening with Target, right? Like consumers do have the power
So and again, I'm not saying that like the like it's gonna happen overnight
But I would rather stop ripping on Kevin Rose
Which we've been doing for an hour now and start talking about like what is it that we want from founders?
Who's doing good things? Who should we be getting behind? I don't know if that's okay with everybody
But I feel like that would be more constructive
Than just continuing to go down this road of like we already know that Kevin Rose is a shitty communicator
Well, let's talk quickly to miss the Miyagi and see what he's got to say and then we're gonna go actually I want
To hear from dots but mr. What's going on?
What's going on everybody? Um, thank you guys for having me on the stage. I
Love exactly what you said
it's funny that I got next up because I actually wanted to wanted to bring to that attention and we actually do have my
Mainman dots here on the stage. So how are you Nathan? Um funny enough
Dots is and kaiju Kings are one of my favorite. They are my favorite the community
um, and one of the things that I was gonna highlight and bring to people's attention is
What we can do right in terms of cultivating a community that is on the same page
That leads to more positivity and more like-minded individuals in the space now if and and Joey
I'm with you about the moonbirds, but I just need it as a reference. I apologize is needed as a reference
But I don't know about you guys
But I kind of just like I know you a lot of you guys are OGs you guys have been in the space for a while
I kind of just started my degenerate. Um, but I kind of had a little my for my bearings and I feel like moonburns
They kind of came out of nowhere. They had the VC pump
They had the real like, you know, not really DJ and like foundation and they hit like what 3040 eat that of nowhere
And then I feel like that type of community that came out of nowhere that had that type of funding that wanted to just to
Make the price go up like that's kind of what we saw happen
They didn't come out of nowhere because he launched proof collective first and proof collective was at like a hundred ETH and
Then moonbirds came after proof collective
Which was supposed to be like their PFP collection. So they didn't completely come out of nowhere
The like he and before so they had Grails also which came through proof collective which did really well
Moonbirds was supposed to be the like the PFP collection of proof and the reason why proof did so well was because people felt that
His in my opinion lack of success, but people seem to view his success as a serial entrepreneur
Was going to lend to like his success in the space
But if you actually do research on his history, he really hasn't had that much success
I mean he took a business that was got offered like nine figures and didn't sell to like
A value of like seven figures because he destroyed the company
So but so moonbirds didn't come out of nowhere
Got you, okay. Thank you for that and thanks for explaining that part. Um, and
essentially what I was trying to gear towards was is
if we should see what examples like communities like kaiju kings where you have
Weekly updates you have community members showing examples of exactly what they're building in real time
And I just think that if you could like as a community if we show people like hey
This is exactly what a community and a founding team looks like that's that's like, you know
Cares about the community and is and is working through, you know, any type of like market conditions
I think if we show people, you know
And he's with exact vivid examples and educate them then they can be able to spot those for themselves through time
And I know that this is like kind of like a bearish market where you know, everyone's kind of whoever's here right now
It's very small circle and we have the time to really focus and see who's really bringing things to the table
so that way by the time the bull run comes those same bad actors and those same people won't be able to strike again when
The new wave comes of individuals who aren't as smart as us. So that's just what I wanted to say
Well on here next from Nathan what's going on dude
Especially from you as a founder who's gone through the highs and the lows and frankly is also still working on something that I really respect
What's going on Nate? Hey feeling yo, what's going on everybody?
So yeah, I just want to highlight a couple things maybe
Keep the topic going. This is something that I learned recently
And I'll just say I think founders are misaligned
To their communities a lot of the time like ninety nine point nine percent of the time
There's very few founders that just get it like ruto said earlier and I hate to say I was in that ninety nine point nine percent
It was this gonna sound crazy. It was actually a major shock to me to realize
like the difference between
Extrinsic community and who's here to make money versus who isn't and the idea that floor price is the only thing that matters
I've been in multiple spaces over the past month and I constantly get told like
Yo, Kaiju's is cool. You do you do great shit, man
But nothing we've done is raised the floor price
Right and contextually when I think about moonbirds and the things that they launched and think about other projects and what they've launched
And how the communities perceive floor price as success
Founders really need to be optimizing to increase floor price, which is a dangerous game. It's something that's really hard to control
And you can't model yourself after other people like I Mac
I you know love and respect you love and respect ray
So we say like founders need to be you know taking notes at a raised book only ray can do what ray does
Right like ray is in a unique position to launch meme land
The week has with meme coin with potatoes with captains with his network another founder comes in and says hey
You know, I'm gonna I'm aspiring NFT founder. I'm gonna follow that path. They're just gonna flop, right?
We're gonna see time and time again. It's just like all these like, you know
poor takes and as a founder that's like very
Intrinsic about my community and building something for Kaiju Kings not necessarily to increase the price of them. It can be difficult. So
Am curious by the way, like when you say when you talk about optimizing towards floor price increasing
Yeah, so think about like when you announce something that does good for your community
But doesn't increase your community's reach its market share the ideas around your community bringing new people in you're still doing something good
And you might be doing something good for the business
But you're not raising you're not reasonable for price, right?
You're not creating something that gets eyes and attention and technically to do that
You don't even need to create anything. Look at look at Ben, right? He has 20 million dollars. I
Would love 20 million dollars. Let's be honest
But you know the the market incentivizes the idea that you know, I'm buying this and it's gonna return me money
And that's why I'm here. So
Customer acquisition so like these these are things that in my opinion should be prioritized and
The best way to go about doing those things is much easier said than done, but it's creating some sort of
Resonates with a mass audience that wants people to join in and for me. I just keep it simple. It's like yo
Create an atmosphere that looks like a shit ton of fun and it'll be harder for people to a want to leave
And you'll have a much more likelihood of converting that top sales funnel to getting people to actually want to come in and buy
But again, it's much easier to say that
Than to do it and the I think some of the issues I've seen with projects that launched maybe in 2021, for example, is that
The the time in which you had a lot of market attention
It's kind of passed over a little bit as new people started coming into the NFT space or the new shiny toy
Kind of syndrome took over a lot of people's mindsets
So it's hard for you to like build on top of your pre-existing either brand or IP
Without like over complicating it to the point where it's difficult for people to want to buy into the project
Without having to catch up on like a lot of new initiatives that like the team has been building for the last like two
Years, so I've that's just like a trend I've noticed personally
But Nathan, I think you mentioned something earlier without me
Kind of on a tangent here. I mentioned this months ago probably on a space where I said are the days kind of gone
Where your average Joe schmoe who doesn't have this?
Resume of success in like past businesses or something like that or are those days gone where a regular dude off the street
And drop a project and get into the top five and and for me, I'm finding it difficult to believe that
That we're gonna be able to see stuff like that again
But I don't know if someone changed my mind on it, but I find it hard to believe that go ahead
He said we see it all the time and it's about following trends
Like if you're following the trends in your first a market or even first 10 first 20
You're gonna be successful inside that trend if there's no competition, right?
So you can be if and this is what the NFT space does
It's how people maintain social capital right as they move to these different trends look at bit God like I
Retweeted bit God at a thousand followers before he was even gonna launch this thing and now to know where I check his profile
I'm seeing him with like thousands of retweets. He's the hero of ordinals. He's the biggest guy in the space
Right, like if you can find a quote-unquote blue ocean everyone's good blue ocean blue ocean, right?
Like if you can find that you can be successful without a resume
But in like a highly competitive space if you were just gonna launch another
Ethereum collection another eth NFT with pretty standard ideals and try to compete against someone like the Zookie. Yeah, you're gonna have a hard time
Nailed it. I agree. I say you either go with the meta or you create the create a new meta
So I've said that in the past as well. So
Okay, let's so we can pass it over some more hands to Eddie
Can I ask Nathan a question what he said about the floor price?
So Nathan, how do you balance because this is something that's talked about a lot. How do you balance?
Making sure your holders and the public are noticing that your floor price is healthy while
Building something that you don't could take six months a year or two years and that you know in in that time frame
If you know the floor price isn't going up because you're building something that's gonna take time. Like, how do you balance that?
$100 million question right in like obviously I haven't cracked it per se because kaiju floor price would be
But there's so many dynamics at play that you can't really control like who's in your project
What social capital do they have if Eddie changes his PFP to something?
Do people in this space buy it right? Like if you think about user-generated content and how great how brands grow
Think about switching your PFP, right?
Like that's free content when you have a PFP you represent that community you're driving sales for them like there
You can't control like the whales that buy your project what they talk about how they perceive you how they work with you
There's so much randomness involved
But you can still control certain things right and like optimizing for that
I don't want to like give too much alpha away on how to optimize for that
But I'm thinking about growing your audience in a in a limited fashion
But still still incrementing value is super important and a lot of things miss a lot of the things that you think would work
Gary said something at vcom where he said fail faster so that way you can like
You know move on to the next one
Is that something that you guys practice where it's like we're just gonna try this if it doesn't work
I mean it really depends like again, I think
When you say things like that, it's so like generalized that you that you really don't know what you're saying
If that makes any sense, like Gary has a lot of products he works with he works on V friends constantly
You know, we talked about the toys Kevin Rose drama. I think
V con and Gary's like social capital and the access to him was the biggest things that V friends was offering
Like if he could re leverage that that would be amazing
But I'm like I said about Ray and just all founders yet to run your own race
Only you were gonna be able to create those market conditions, right and meet those people and make those connections build that floor price. So
It's funny because a lot of people will say floor price doesn't matter and I'm in a green
Where I'm like where I mean that I think everyone has their own version of success and in my opinion
I think you are a successful project even if you are sitting at sub point five each point sub point to eat
I think you can still I would still deem you a successful project if you still have like a very active community if you're still building
On top of like your your brand initiatives if you're still doing cool shit that people want to be a part of who are holders
To me that is success as well
So like but I am a firm believer in that the market will also tell you whether or not the shit that you're deploying is
Being perceived. Well by the market and its consumers
So obviously floor price has a complete direct correlation with that and that's why I also think that it's an incredibly good metric
Pudgy penguins did a master class on
Raising the floor price maintaining the floor price and keeping height
Like if you look at Luca if you look at the team if you look at everything that they executed against
So many people were talking about them
Buying the toys like my big question is how much of web3 bought the toys versus web2 bought the toys and like how sustainable is that long term
But it's a master class on creating, you know
This blue ocean they're a toy company. They got everyone in even if you didn't own a pudgy you want to support luka
I love supporting luka. I think it's fucking amazing
like study that right like
Maybe not exactly what they did
Maybe you don't become a toy company
But think about that go to market strategy a lot of founders and kaiju was you know
This was a part of our problem previously, but we'd launch really cool shit
And we just be like hey look how cool this is onto the next thing
We wouldn't talk about it wouldn't build up an insane amount of hype around it wouldn't really capitalize on
The extrinsic values of the market and really think more intrinsically which isn't wrong
But if you're talking about floor prices, well anything that matters
Um, then that's right. So
All right, let's keep things rolling I want to hear from sanza what's going on dude
Dude what's up everyone what's going on? Um
Yeah, this is a really good discussion. Joey. Gary also said kids should be beating each other up again. So I I don't know how you know
I'm all for bringing the fighting team back. You should go tell your grandparents to fuck off, too
So there's a lot of things that are questionable here. Uh, you know
I mean if you want to meet at the fighting tree after school, i'm totally down kids need to learn to fucking stand up for themselves
Fucking participation. All right. All right, joey. Let's relax live
Let's let's go back. All right. Look, uh, anyway
Anyway, look, uh, I like this topic because I think I think it's some founders have been putting on a fucking master class at this
I think a really good example is
Frank in the in this specific case of fud marketing, right where some other founders would tremble
They would be like, oh no, the fud is coming frank fucking leaned into that man
He was retweeting fud about him. He was addressing fud about him
He was on it and people loved him for it and he went on spaces. He addressed it people loved him for it
That is what I think is he took the fud and he made it into marketing on his own
And I think it's about what the founder does at the end of the day, right?
I the floor price to me is just a simple like surface valuation, right?
That's just what people from the outside see
They're they're deciding to value is is a pudgy penguin at a three floor enough for you to just buy in and decide
From here on out i'm gonna get my value from pudgy penguins
I'm gonna get back three some way some shape and form right whereas
Let's say you know, uh nathan's project like kaiju king's, uh, they offer you tiny astro for free
You know that tiny astro costs this much
What's the value out of that that you're getting using tiny astro for free from kaiju kings?
You are getting something back, but that's up to you to understand that
Like instead of paying for tiny astro i'm getting this out of the project and I think that that's something that
No one really thinks about at all
So, um, that's something that I feel like more people more holders specifically should think about
What are you really getting out of your respective community?
Whatever community that is that's giving back to you in some way shape and form
It could also be something that you personally value for example
The very classic example, uh, you engagement farm your buy as soon as you get it, right?
Right off the bat you're like, oh I got great engagement. I got 10 000 impressions
Uh, and now I can use this to leverage something with the sponsor
Okay. Well now we're talking a little bit, right?
This is something that you as an individual you're using to your creativity to then leverage in a specific way, right?
Let's say demon does that he's a beans beans is very well respected at this point now
They've officially got accepted by blur lending yada yada yada
He gets more impressions per month which then allows him to go to a sponsor to be able to do something like that
I'm only using that as an example because I feel like that's a very easy and class is example for someone to use
But there are different ways, right?
An artist could be using something to leverage with someone that they specifically want to do a deal with and so they say hey
Like check this out. This is the value that I got at this. This could be valuable to you, too
There are multiple ways to get value back
More than just sitting on your ass
And just waiting for something to be given to you, which I think is our classic average person doing that and so
Um, yeah, you know just kind of maybe a little inspired inspiration here, you know, uh, go beat
Well, don't go beat other kids up
But if you have kids tell them to go beat somebody else up if you're a holder fucking do something go do something, you know
Um tell your parents to go fuck themselves too, you know
The possibilities are limitless. Anyway
What are you on about you gotta like you gotta put a halt just be like what you're talking about
You you got lost at the end there. So hold on. Okay, Eddie. Eddie
I'll be honest the end was satire and no one caught it and that's okay. That's okay. It's it's nine o'clock
It's late for some of you. I get it. I caught it, but you told me to go back on. Yeah
Well, you know joey I I went back on mute myself. It's just so happened that eddie helped me do it
But now tldr for some of you there
There are multiple ways for you to get value out of out of whatever community that you're in
And it's not always up to just the founder to do it
On the other side of things it is up to the founder to be creative with the way that they might you know
Nathan must see your point
It's not always about floor price and ruto you bought that up very well
What are they offering you what are you getting out of it and what can you do with this that's that's that's my perspective
I will say when it comes down to things like that where you have a quantifiable
Uh utility, let's just say like you get xyz subscription for 80 off if not free
That literally adds a clear financial value
To your nft whatever that might be right like that's like, okay
Well, i'm getting i'm getting literally exactly
You know five hundred dollars a month from this nft worth of value i'm getting exactly
Two hundred dollars a month from this from this utility, which might sound great
For sure, but at the same time there's also a limiting factor
You know what I mean like whereas with that like a malady for example, there's no utility ad but that that makes it kind of
Like an open open top it can go to wherever and who knows
Sounds i'm gonna go to you real quick. I'll keep this one lickety lickety lickety spit. Uh,
Anyway, i'm gonna stop. Uh, look, um malady
They they that that's a really good example because there was a whole thing that they had an alpha group for shit coins
So really really easily right off the bat
I get that you probably have to be very active to participate in the alpha group
but let's just say that you got into there because you were holding a malady and boom sickling meta hits
You're making a shitload of money off of shit coins
I do not have a malady by the way do not have one
This is just something that i've i've heard and they've made a shitload of money
So right off the bat they're getting the value out of their malady back and is either free or however you want to look at it
But that's just again another example. But yeah back to you, Eddie
Yeah, let's let's just keep rolling I want to hear from jake and then i'm gonna toss quick back to nathan
But jake what's going on, dude? Ribbit. Good to see you tonight
Ribbit dude. Hey, i'm just I saw fighting founders. I'm just here to fight my founder
The guy just fucking dropped 10k and then inscribed everything by himself and uh, there's there's no fucking utility
There's there's no like promises. There's no fucking roadmap. What the fuck is this shit? I didn't sign up for this. Um
Uh, but yeah, like the guy comes joins the space and he doesn't talk like it's just i'm pretty sure at this point
My founder is a fucking AI
Uh, he's just there to just do his thing. So, uh, since we're all fighting founders, uh, i'm here to fight my founder
Uh, uh, like he didn't even say anything. So the ribbit, I don't know where ribbit was born from
So we just started saying ribbit. So, uh, ribbit
Dude, that's why that's why I love ordinals right now, bro. It gives me it's like early
2021 nft vibes. It's like no one gives a shit about utility. They're just they just want to ride
They just want to ride with the fam, man. So I think that's what's cool about ordinals. Um, yeah
So shout out to the frog gang man ribbit. Uh, go ahead eddie. Nate. Did you have a point you wanted to add on there?
Yeah, I mean I was just going to talk about a little bit more about what santa was saying and just like
Contextualize when we say like floor price is the only thing that matters. I think I think it's like it's value
Right. And again, like going back to that extrinsic idea
It's what can this nft make me what social capital does it give me and even with those incentives, right?
Even in that, you know, and it's hard to keep incentives going. It's hard to print money
Right, but when that runs out they it's gone right and then the founder still left with the community
That's like where's the money at? Where's the where's the influence at? Where's the you know, where does this make me money anymore?
Cracking the code on that and figuring that out right figuring out how to provide that value that extrinsic value
Raises the floor price. So I agree with you and I was just going to say your example was like
You know kaiju kings just gave tiny astros and I know it was just an example, but I thought it was a funny meme
That's not the only thing we've done
So gg, I know I know nathan. Don't worry. You've done a lot. You've done a lot
I'm just i'm just I I have to keep it simple. Otherwise, I might a lot for fucking hours my man
That is a fact but we're gonna keep things rolling all of them to you santa
I want to hear from eric and then salamander and then we're gonna go toss to a new voice on stage. Damn
But eric, let's start us off here
Yeah, I mean there's a catch 22 on this too, right?
Because a lot of the founders that minted some of these projects did it
In such high quantities that now they have 10 000 20 000 or 30 000 tokens out there
They have all these coins in circulation
And when you build something to that scale because you built it in a bowl and the market, you know retracts
It's like somebody who was 600 pounds and then dropped to 150, right?
There's a lot of excess skin
Right that like is just kind of there and so I think you know part of this, you know
But like i'm just saying like you can't you know, everyone's not saying oh like we have like i'm stuck with like
85 kids that I didn't want right and like I can't afford to feed these fuckers
You know and like and i'm working hard, but it's not paying the bills
Right and like I I get it, but it's part of like
Bro, why'd you have so many fucking kids like why did and I and it was a different meta two years ago, right?
You were 10k collections. You were trying to raise a lot
But you know, i'm i'm a fodder in the opposite positions, right?
Like our core collection has less than a thousand, right?
Like we've been able to grow because we've been able to limit right if it
We would have been fucked if we had 10,000 we've you know, our floor price would be crushed
And so I think there is like a methodology that you're seeing now where like people
You know like you you saw it with meme land, right?
They scaled smaller collections into larger ones and grew in a way that like they were able to or at least think they're able
um, you know economically because
At the end of the day like as nathan said like
When you build something enough, there has to be something that's generating revenue, right?
And like and I don't think that people realize like how hard it is to generate revenue in web. I'm not talking about pvp trading where
You know someone else's money to make this stuff where i'm talking about drawing in outside liquidity
So that the project can actually grow right? Otherwise, you're just borrowing from peter to pay paul
Right and like everyone knows that that game only
Runs so long and then like it all falls to shit, right? And so
And and if you're doing that, right then it's like, okay
Well, usually the process of building some marketplace or platform that can actually succeed in doing that
enormous effort funding, you know technical willpower
And that's just to have the opportunity to try and succeed and compete right and so
I think you're stuck in this hard spot now where
You know unlike in web 2 if you have just a bunch of excess inventory you just throw it away, right?
No big deal, but in web 3, you know, you can't
You can't take those nfts back from those holders or be like, hey, haha, by the way
There's only 2k of them now the rest of them got zapped
Right and all of a sudden like like a bad foreclosure loan series, right?
Like everything's wiped out and you can reset which I think if most
Some of them like some of these projects would do really well
If they were just like a fourth of the size
They were because then they have room to grow but now they're like at the edge of their reach
And they're having trouble monetizing at that size because it is tough to do you got a big ass family
And you have to monetize on a scale. So that's just my rant, man
But I honestly shout out because you're like Nathan's one of like shout out to kaiji's because those guys built the most legendary mint platform
for scientists ever created like our devs have like
Borrowed tech and like different stuff and like i've used them as an inspiration in our processes
So like I have the most tremendous amount of respect in the world for like Nathan and that team
So shout out to you guys. We're supposed to be fighting founders eddy, right? I mean, come on
Yeah, no, we are we are so uh, Nathan you suck. Anyway, uh
That was the dopest mint ever done though as far as straight selection, right it actually was
It was really good. If anyone here participated in it, it was a little over a year ago now. Um
I think it was great. And also I just pinned to the top
Um, I did actually buy a kaiju tonight
Uh, there was a really clean one on the floor and we're supporting orange. So it was like perfect
I was like, all right, let's go with that one
So I picked up my first kaiju
And uh, I need to dude there's so many nfts in my hot wallet that made the sense of the vault
So, uh, we'll probably expect that to get sensitive all when gases and gas is chilling
But yeah nate real quick toss to you because I know you had your hand up
Dude you buying the kaiju made me fucking speechless. I completely forgot what I was gonna respond to eric with so gg
No, i'm i'm i'm hyped and I actually have been meaning to because like
I wanted to get involved like I want to check out some discords, especially as of late
There's been a lot of discords that i've like
I basically kind of evaporated from discord over the past like two three months
And I kind of want to check out like what does conversation look like outside?
Of twitter. I want to see what it looks like in discord, especially discords of like
Legitimate communities that have stuck around i.e. Um, I bought into kajiro the other day
I want to buy I bought into kaijis tonight
Like this is the kind of thing that I want to get involved with and just generally like I want to support people that are
Like people are throwing 20 million dollars at ben screw that
I'll throw like a i'll throw, you know, something at people that are actually doing cool stuff
I'm gonna fud the founders that deserve to be flooded and support the ones that deserve to be supported at least as far as i'm concerned
Bless the kaijis kings on top salamander. What's going on?
Um, this topic is flooding founders nate killed my cat. That's I just want to make that clear everyone come and fud them. Hey, yo
No, i'm just joking but uh, I want to leave this back to kind of what ruda was saying that
um, you know founders that get it get it right and um, that's uh
Obviously we've been in kind of a really weird rough patch in the last like year because I mean in the bull run
We've obviously experienced like, you know founders rugging leaving the space
then we kind of went to a space where like founders actually stuck it out thugged it out have a lot of money to
Move around and stuff and get back to the holders
And I just want to like mention that something that i've actually always noticed where it comes to a lack of
disrespect to their communities is that a lot of founders don't actually um
And this is kind of weird to say but a lot of founders don't really focus on their community
Like they don't listen to them. They don't connect with them on spaces
And I haven't really touched too much on um on like degods
But I really I have hopped on a couple spaces and I like the fact that he's always kind of like open ears
And you know like founders in this space
They're they're they're just people obviously, but they're all they're not just founders
They're trying to change the space each and every day make a difference and you know
When when you see a founder that actually has a lot of passion it does show
And when you see one that doesn't give a fuck you do say you do you do see that too
And so, you know, I think that because we're in a smaller tight niche of a space right now
We're starting to see the true colors of people true colors of like actions and you know
I hope that we come to a better place
But for now, it's like we're all kind of just trying to evolve and uh, make things a better place
And yeah, I was obviously you know, it's freaking I didn't realize it was 9 30
I was getting kind of tired, but then I heard sansa like
Talk about he was just screaming and talking about beating these kids. So yeah, I told my kids to be you're welcome for waking you up
I told my parents to fuck off
Okay, rain it back in talk I think it's espresso shot at 9 30 but
That's what I was just saying like I feel like i've been a part of a lot of projects and a lot of them are
Just like they don't give they don't even listen to
Um their community which is pretty it's pretty insane because obviously nft is what three is very community driven
Well, I think the issue and then I want to go directly to hands and thank you guys so much for your patience
I think it's tough, right because when you're actively spending when you've spent six months maybe a year maybe even longer
Being a part of building like a product or business
You then like become very attached to the things that you're trying to implement
And it makes it harder for you to kind of look at it with a fresh pair of eyes
um in like an objective way
Uh so that you can kind of see the faults and like some of the things that you're doing so like i've spoken to
a bunch of different projects in the past and
I'll i'll call out pretty pretty substantial problems that they're having whether it be through marketing strategy or like
Building, you know top of sales funnel kind of stuff
But they don't really see those
Issues and it's mainly because they're they're so
I emotionally invested in the things that they're doing
So maybe that's probably and again i'm putting I don't want to put words in like founders mouths because i'm not one again, right?
I think that's just kind of an issue sometimes when they're trying to listen to like holders or like community feedback
Um that they are more in tune with what they're building rather than like what other people think they should build. So
Uh, yeah, that's kind of my personal take but yeah, eddie. Let's let's go some more hands up before I rant somewhere
Absolutely. Again a reminder everyone in the space if you guys are enjoying this a like and a retweet goes a long way. Dan
Yeah, I want to just for a second like double down on what eddie just said hit the retwizzle on the space
Let's get this out on the timeline a little bit further
Um, I mean, we're not always just putting founders i'm hearing some good takes up here
But uh, we could definitely go down a dark path and maybe i'll start it off
Uh with a bit of a dark path. No, not actually, but I I was listening to space today with kro
I'm sure there's some inspiration, you know being drawn with the title from that. I think
Running off what rudo was saying like I think people mesh a founder
With so many roles that only a few can actually fulfill
Like the word founder has now just become like you have to be the fucking goat at like everything
And some are some can actually do that. You know, we got lucas
We got francs that are absolutely chads in kind of all areas are enough
To like I don't want to say like do people but get by publicly where they they keep the persona rolling
But like a leader is much different than a manager a manager is much different than like a pr
Public relations individual and I think only a select few are are good at all of those things
Innovator he's somebody that can start
Innovative things he's done it with dig. He's done it in past in the dot-com era and he did it
Initially with moonbirds that proof passed and you know, like there was definitely
something cool in the beginning but where I think
Him specifically and others in the space drop the ball is not delegating properly not
Recognizing their strong suits and handing the baton
To other people and saying, you know what clearly as some I think it was salamander was saying clearly the community
Even if you are in tune and you're listening
There's times where they just don't respond well to you
Like you they just don't feel like you're speaking their language like you're a part of the d gen culture
And at that point that's when you need to recognize early on as a good founder quote unquote that like yo
We need to delegate somebody into a position to kind of take that
Role and run with it and create a better public persona for the project instead of continuing to and i'm not saying
He is this way, but be boisterous and think I have to do it all. I need to be the face
I need to be the voice. It's very rare
But it's very rare in large web2 corporations that the founder the literally the person that started the company
Ever even speaks to the public like most times the founders are dead
They're not even in existence anymore and it's enough in the in the family bloodlines and they've done delegating and managing
Long before that to put people in those positions and I think caro specifically and i'm not trying to like, you know
Gang up or like, you know throw a bunch of fud towards him specifically, but he's obviously a topic of conversation the last 24 hours is
Not recognizing earlier or even still like I really respect him for taking all the heat for being on a space for two hours
And answering all those questions
But the fact of the matter is a lot of the time and he's he has enough proof
No pun intended of this that he should know i'm not the person to be doing this
I need to delegate somebody else to speak to the community to be part of the community on a lot more
Ongoing basis. So I just I think my roundabout point is like
We as as as collectors as flippers as traders, whatever you want to label yourself as because there is different categories there
We we all need to recognize a founder isn't always going to be a roundabout perfect, you know medley of all of these different roles
I think we have every right to call out after months and months or maybe even years
Of the team not recognizing that and say hey
Like we need to like shift some game pieces around on the board here because clearly
Whether it's a web 2 company or a web 3 company
It's the same shit like literally if somebody doesn't do well in a role
You usually move them out of it and move somebody else that's stronger at it
So I think pr is like the main thing that I know i've heard a lot of people call out today even thread guy talking about
You know putting people in your community to run your pfp to make content to be the voice of it on spaces
We just haven't seen enough of that and and I think specifically with proof and moonbirds
They got the bags to do it
So it's even more like of a head scratcher where you're just like wait, you got bags
So why don't you use them and delegate some new people?
My curiosity here like I I want to agree with you
But at least you know, maybe it's just a bear market thing, right?
But like i'm i'm in a place where i'm trying to find i'm trying to find examples of where
There wasn't you know, like where the founder was known
And they didn't need to be the central figure that people look to
And like maybe azuki, you know
Maybe board eight but even board eight we're seeing that now start to fade and I think that that was just kind of like
They could do no wrong until all this like in the past few months. We started to see that wash away a bit
Other than that, I feel like across the board as much as founders want to or may want to delegate
I wonder how effective that can be maybe maybe it's also just a lack of like
You know, it's not super easy
Like maybe what it is is if someone is good enough at being their own voice and whatnot
And be someone else's voice, you know what I mean?
No for sure. It might be that competitive, right?
Like it's it's something where if somebody's really good at that
They're probably already have a job and it's going to be hard to build away from that
Completely get your point and just so i'm clear on what I was saying eddie
It's not that the founder disappears like I think that would cause more fud in and of itself
i'm just saying that like
Again, Kevin specific just because it's top of mind for me
If you continue to fumble the bag publicly and people are clipping your shit and saying all your takes are like terrible
Then maybe you should be giving less takes and that's my point
Maybe somebody else should do the majority of the heavy lifting and you can you can come in and pepper in you know
some appearances some some
But even then like having somebody even give you some notes might not be the worst idea of like hey
Maybe this time don't mention anyone else's project in a seemingly negative light things like that
Whether they're going to take the advice is obviously up to that individual, but I just think
Generally speaking that isn't something we've seen eddie and I think that's partly
You know something that this space has widely quote unquote been known for is innovation
But nobody wants to to move the meta like well if it hasn't been done, maybe there's a fucking good reason to do it
You know if there's if there if it hasn't been delegated
Why don't you you set the new meta?
See if it works if it doesn't the founders still there to kind of pick up the ropes again and go back on spaces
Do whatever they need to do
It's just I don't see a lot of knobs being turned and levers being pulled especially when something is publicly giving you fud
Like everyone's saying time and time again to this particular founder and maybe more across the board of like hey, man
You're not really doing us any favors out here, especially with floor price concern
Let's try something different but
There seems to be I don't know if it's ego or just
General stubbornness to not do that and especially when money is not an excuse
It becomes like I said a big head scratcher. We're just like yeah
I really just don't get it man in any other company
If somebody was publicly kind of smearing the reputation of a brand they would shift that person to a little bit more of a back seat
Publicly and and put somebody else at that forefront. So again, I I do agree
It's not something that has been done
But maybe that's a good reason to try it out
Especially with the project and the the founder that we're talking about and I just want to be clear
I got a lot of respect for kevin rose. I was a big fan of his before web 3
But I think if the if the path that he's on continues to go the same way
I think people are gonna maybe lose some respect and I would hate to see that for him
And I think he would hate to see that for himself because who wants to go down that dark path
Also, you're not that guy bro. You're not that guy. Yeah, you're not that guy fast. Sorry, eh?
I'm gonna pass real fast is on so because he's blowing up my dms and we're keep things rolling from there
What why yo, why you gotta talk about that that's supposed to be private man
We live like 10 minutes away from each other, you know, like there's a sacred pact about that shit
Anyway, no, I just really wanted to hop on to
Dan's point here and then I promise i'm out but
Dan the delegation is such a huge issue
Not just among, you know, I and here's the thing kevin rose. It's not that you're putting him on like extra fire
He's just an easy example to use right now, right?
movers are a fucking terrific case study here on like
Like they did they did the cco and the community's like what the fuck is going on?
I was in the middle of a fucking million dollar deal and now i'm not because of this fucking bullshit
so like it's that was that was just a little bit of a fire but my back but like my
That actually happened by the way, yeah it goes and so
Um, my my point here that i'm trying to get at here is that jack busher really great example
Uh founder someone who is able to juggle it a little bit more
He shows up when he needs to he's transparent when he when he's ready to put it out with through his transparency thread
And eddie you like obviously i'm fucking biased
But i'll i'll be i'll try to be as as adjusted as I can be but azuki another really great example team members
Are talking on spaces. Yes zagabond isn't there that often but he does show up on spaces
When you know with this team and whatnot every now and then so I think it's more about you know
You're on the same page with your team, right?
As opposed to one person is doing one thing and the back end is doing another thing. You can still mix and
Adjust and pivot accordingly. It's just a matter of you know, someone like jack butcher
The if if someone on his team wants to do something then they kind of just switch places, right?
And then uh someone like zagabond dam is a very outspoken community manager. He gets out there
I I just it really honestly genuinely just comes down to what is the core communication?
Infrastructure that's happening within the project team and to me that has been
Along with founders knowing when to delegate
uh in web 3 specifically, so I I i'm
Really looking forward to that kind of like
Not being the norm going forward. So I just needed to plug that in there in terms of the examples as well
Sounds good sanza and we'll talk to you soon chief. Enjoy the rest of your night. We'll keep things rolling
I want to hear from jen jen. It's good to see you tonight. How are you doing?
Gm, um, I had to come in for this budding founders and i'm on like seven different twitters right now
I tell you tonight. I was like hot take uh founders aren't even a real role like
That is a thing that you've done
But that doesn't describe at all what your role in an organization should be
I'm like not every single person who founds a company is gonna have the same idea. I also think that like
These conversations get into like points of
It almost feels like centralization right but like
Play around with the structure of what you're doing right? I think that like
Decentralized organizations and not just like in dows right but like there's so many people like this industry is being built as we speak
And i've seen so many people discover skills i've discovered skills or like new interests right and
I think like a solid organization does not rely on one person like whenever there's a project
And it's like one person is the personality behind it
That makes me not want to be a part of it
And i'm probably in the minority of like this space in its current time
Um, but I don't think it'll stay that way and
One person can't be cool forever right like eventually
They're you know people are going to turn against them and that's also stupid too
But like when you structure an entire project based on one person, it's just stupid
Also, I feel like there's something that i've noticed in this space and like I come from
You know the entertainment industry and things are really different. We're here
I've like played around a lot on the tech side and there's a lot of like devs doing a lot of comms and like
Some people understand what they're saying, right?
But like I totally get in certain instances like why people thought it was a good thing to say but like
Sometimes you're not talking to like
The majority of understanding and so yeah, I think like build up your whole fucking team
Build up the project build up the community
But if you're sitting here being like i'm a sounder
Okay, you had an idea once and you made it happen
What are you doing every single day after that and it's also not your job to do every single thing every single day after that, right?
Found found found. I don't know create something that's real
Um, that's how that's how I feel and not to fud
People also need to stop comparing themselves to other projects like who the fuck cares if you are so all in on something
Why are you even talking about anything else? Like
Just because someone else is having a worse day than you doesn't mean that you're having an okay day, right?
Like what a weird way to go about things and not just
in a sub tweet context, but like
I don't know we should want to elevate everyone
When the market's down or whatever's going on like highlight what people are still doing well highlight what's happening when there's no money
Jen's the goat just gonna say that Jen's the go great takes
She is I was about to say good rant. Jen
Also, we have so many like really interesting voices both on stage and actually in the audience some of whom I would love to bring up
So like especially I just want to hear from founders or people adjacent to founding teams
Right now because that's just like exciting to me
But let's keep things rolling through these hands
I want to hear from venom and then ip don and then of course, it's good things. Sorry dan
We're gonna get to you last bruv. I know i'm sorry
And of course we have some others on stage who don't have their hands up
But i'm gonna have to say hello at some point
So we're gonna keep things rolling keep things moving moving jolly venom. What's going on?
What's up? What's going on? Eddie? How are you doing tonight?
I'm doing good. I've got a new kaiju king. I'm having a nice month. I know I thought bro. I saw your request
I was like man. I wonder why he wants me on stage. Is it my amazing pfp my amazing kaiju that I have?
Or what's the deal? Like you know what I mean? So
No, dude, you know, what's crazy?
Um before I speak to how awesome of a founder fucking pop of dots is because you know
Kaiju's honestly are one of the most underrated projects in the space in my opinion
But like I have to touch on kevin rose man. I just have to
Dude, it's it's honestly kind of an embarrassment at this point what he's what he's putting himself through
And like I had a moonbird so I can speak to this
Um, I I've I had a brewery deal bro. I had a brewery deal with a seltzer
Um that cc zero totally fucked and uh
like it actually it even started before that man, like
the fanny packs were a meme because
Like they went to new york city
And like pro like they had david blaine and all types of crazy shit and like that was like peak
Right, and then they're like silver nesting. It's gonna blow your mind
Fucking run and dude, it was it was a complete joke, bro. They lied. They were like
and then you mentioned new york the the
What are they called the fanny packs that they gave out in new york were better than the ones that they gave to the silver
The thing is is like they the the nesting rewards
became like a happy meal toy really quick and they and like that's where they were like stuck on and then
The cc zero they basically were like well, we don't see anybody building with the ip anyway
It's everybody's moonbird now and it's like bro if any of your holders were going to do some if anybody was going to do
Something it was your holders. See they just
They they're they're super out of touch
They've always had the vibe that they're out of touch that they're not from within core web 3
Like and on the on the complete opposite side of the spectrum
You got a fucking founder like dots who's the fucking man?
And has literally provided so much value
Through the initial bull market for like me as a holder that like I will ride this fucking kaiju
To like less than zero bro. I'm with him for life
And like he's gotta fucking get rid of me somehow if he wasn't like bro
You know what I mean? Like I'm not going anywhere, bro
So like the thing is is like they just they have a whitelist team like I could go down, bro
Zipsies was like a fucking cook. I got like eight eth back from that shit
Like they just have an incredible whitelist team
The dude they got a thousand fucking spots for captains
Like what is that value right now? That's 10 of the total supply went to kaiju's
You know what I mean? That was great
Like that was one of the that was one of the craziest whitelist polls. I think I may have ever seen by any project
They're just they're just and and not only that but he's on the tech side
He's super giga brained. They do fucking amazing activations all the time
And it's and it's really inclusive and like if you're a king bro, like everybody's got each other's backs. It's super chill
Um, like i'm not really here to fud like especially not fucking pop of dots bro. That's it
They say no one loves you like dots loves you, you know, so and that's that's facts, bro
So I just came up to fucking show my love and uh, yeah, man. I'm just here chilling
Yeah, you did it wrong. We're trying to fud founders today venom wrong
Okay, that was that was aggressive. All right. Let's keep things rolling ip nerd. What's up?
How's it how's the train? It's going good. So yeah, I definitely got some fun in my heart tonight
So, you know i'll stay on topic
So I think this was just the failed bill business president from day one
Uh, if you kind of look how the project started you got kevin rose. He's great at venture capital
so he builds this community and the original group of
Members were were basically like investors and web 3 was hot nft's were hot
And he was like, oh shit, there's money to be had for raising right now
So he raised the money but he didn't have the vision the backup. Like what are they going to do with it?
And so you have now you have these business like people
But if one of the things about mood board holders is if you ever they don't have a lot of risks
Like they they're smart. They're intelligent. They know business
But they're not the type of person that you're going to put on tv to promote your stuff
So you had all these good investors. Well, you know up until this investment
Then they but they didn't have any promoters
And and then they went cc zero
So then you took you undercut it because the whole point of going cc zero is you get everybody to be like
Commonly promoting it now it works for projects like, you know
Mfers because it was a community grassroots project
So it was very easy for everybody to not like want to be the face the project is the face
But with moonbirds you had a lot of people their goal was to make money
And then they were undercut on their ability to make money
And they don't have a vision and then they're like we're an art community
And it was almost like they were trying to find the next people which is like trying to win the lottery
Like so we'll find the great art and we'll go to sell these and sell it for like two million dollars
Oh shit, nothing's selling at subsidies for two million dollars. What do we do?
We'll have these events that did it and then the math didn't make sense
And you can even if you want to compare it to like v friends that even for v friends
The math doesn't make sense after year three
It doesn't make sense to rent football stadiums for 7 000 people now if you raise 70 million dollars your first three months
But you know year four your your options are to lose money on future events or do smaller events
I I can't believe you you said that the moonbirds holders did not have riz
I I think some of the things you touch on as well ip is I mean the cco play and for me
I kind of I remember mentioning this on a twitter space
When that was going on as well back when I did daily ones
I said that in the short term it might look bullish because if people were aware
Whenever they announced that there was moonbird derivatives of like everything, right?
So like there was a lot of market attention on that but in my mind
I remember looking thinking to myself like there's no way this is sustainable unless the team is actually offering some sort of
Incentive for holders to go about you know tweeting about it
Basically marketing it right like give them the tools to actually leverage some of the cco stuff
But it just didn't seem scalable to me at the time as far as like getting more market attention
Hoping that a lot more people were just going to naturally market it for themselves
But that obviously didn't end up happening right and I think the second part that you mentioned was um
Shit did I just this I was literally in the middle of writing notes down because I this always happens to me
And then switching over to being like a more art focus kind of community like the pfp for artists
And again, i'm trying to make sure that this we're not only talking about moonbirds because I think there's a million different
You know projects that we can probably look to
Where there's still they still have a good viable community and like maybe they drop the ball here or there or whatever
But I think when they announce the art focus pfp thing
Um, I think you kind of lose a lot again of like that market attention because if you think about it the average nft consumer
Doesn't aren't necessarily like the one-of-one art collectors
For example a vast majority of people who have eth in their wallet right now, especially in the nft space right now
Have less than like one or two eth in their wallet
So like if you're looking to onboard people into a community
Um, and if that message doesn't resonate with the vast majority of the the average consumer in the space
Then again, you're going to just continue to lose market attention
And I think I still think it's cool that they're the pfp for like for like art artists or art collectors
I think that's like a cool narrative
The issue for me is I think we've seen a lack of like, uh
Like packaging that information in like a creative or like innovative fun way that engages potential like new holders, for example
So, I don't know end rain again, but I appreciate it. I'd be
I'm gonna toss next to don and also at some point again
I will have to take a break from the hands and say hello to sidak and sign which is good to see you guys
What's going on? Um, I think from a perspective moonbirds, um
I've been falling in like social for quite a bit of a while
And i'll say the engagement they get on twitter is not the best engagement you would
expect from a project where a violation of full advice is over like 4k for sure and um
This is a question you asked earlier about what kuro said
You you know your question talked about eddie, but
With that being said the question was why or the answer to the question is pretty much
Projects need social engagement
They need their voices concerns heard and I can save this from a perspective of conics, right?
So clonox for a while. They didn't have anybody from the team really much talking out on spaces or twitter
social engagement anything like that on a platform and
You've seen that there was more
More people buying into the project people felt more
More welcoming to the project people felt more secured because they knew the division they knew the direction and the founders themselves
Wasn't that big on twitter or not say big but they weren't as social as they were
Um, so I think from a perspective of loonbirds, uh, what someone's what a lot of people say is they're like, they're out of touch
I think they're out of touch with the nit space with the people one and what's needed and how to keep the project moving forward
Um the pivotal move with the spotify. I don't think person that was a good move
Um, I want to understand why they said that's a good move
You know what I mean? They're just pitching stuff out, but we want to know why
If you know what it might be don
It's one of those things where it's like, okay
Let's say like let's say let's say d gods. Okay, or or pudgy penguins was like, hey
We're partnering with spotify
But that's gonna be great
But when but when it's like all you've done is miss or when you've had a series of misses
You can't deliver like a very mid announcement like you've got to you've got to bring the heat
You've got to do something that actually hits and once you get like a hit or two hits or a series of hits
You're good. You could announce whatever and people are gonna be happy with it and like that's gonna be another
You know notch in your cap is like look at what you did. You did something cool here
You know spotify is a very mid
Very mid announcement to make yes, it's spotify. Yes. That's a good thing for a company. We're saying like hey, we partner with spotify
But like that's just it doesn't move the needle. You know what I mean?
So I think that's I think that's where that comes from
So it comes down to like, you know
We're trying to figure out what's this to remove
I think if they add someone on the social platform such as twitter engaging in with the
The let's say the spaces community and they were going out their outreach and they were saying hey
This is what it's supposed to be instead of we're just seeing it's just spotify. Yeah, we go into detail
Like what's next? What are we supposed to expect from this playlist? Yada. Yada. Yada. Yada
I think people be more able to
Feel comfort and buy-in into the project if you're secured
But I think a lot of these projects such as moonbirds such as doodles. Um, they need a
I'm not going to say creator content, but they need someone on the social platform
That's one of these spaces to keep the community engagement up
That's hearing the concerns taking the feedback to the team
Instead of just Kevin Kevin rose going to a platform and getting roasted or fired at you know
Um, it would save a lot of time and it would save a lot of players down the line because at that point
You're serving you're have somebody get to be on a platform
They're hearing the concerns the issues the directions everything like that. You're taking it back to the team
You get I mean, but it has to be both sided at that point
It can't be one-sided where people are saying things and it's not just being hurt and I feel like that's what it is
Will take them i'm gonna keep things wrong. I want to hear from uh, I want to hear from good things
Good things. It's good to see you tonight. How are you doing, dude?
Yeah, good to see you eddie. Um, i'm doing well doing well. Um,
It's already here that uh, that there's there's flood going around that's never good
But yeah, I think I think it's an interesting conversation. I mean, you know
people that know me know that i'm all about people and
for really any organization and um
I used to work for two really large companies. I worked for uh, amazon for a little bit and I worked for bowing and um
two very different companies two different
Uh styles of of sort of like organizing the human capital within those organizations
And you see the results like not just in their stock price
But in the innovation that's happening
Like there's just no question that amazon is a much more innovative company than bowing is even though
Boeing has some really crazy technology that they build
Um, but yeah, I mean to uh, I think it was dan's point and jen's point as well
Um, you know, you really need to ensure that you're putting the right people in place
You know our um one of our co-founders bill thai he has a uh,
I think it was in somewhere in l.a. Earlier this year. I can't remember the event
But someone asked him, you know, like what is your kind of like some some advice you have for?
Um, you know founders and and people, um, you know creating something new
And he said that one of his one of his first mentors told him that you know, one of the one of the keys to
Success in in running a business is basically to just cycle people in and out until it works
and you know, it's kind of a it's a bit of a cutthroat type of take but
really if you think about it, like that's just that's kind of how you have to do things you've got to
Try let people try different roles. Um, and sometimes they'll fit and sometimes they won't and
Um, you know, we kind of see that in nft communities
And I think the other thing I wanted to point out is that you know in this in this like in this kind of new paradigm
Where it's not just the founding team
It's also the makeup of the people that are
Like building in your community because I think if you're ultimately if you're going to call yourself sort of like a a web3 company or
Organization, it cannot just be like this small founding team. That's that's
Building everything like otherwise, you know, what's the purpose of of giving?
You know all of your holders like some stake you're not giving them stock, but you're giving them stake
and so these people are incentivized to build things to to basically make the
The assets that you've distributed, you know increase in value
And so it really is important that you build systems where you're incentivizing people to collaborate together
Because ultimately, I mean that's again. That's like what a business is. That's what a government is
You know, it's amazing by the way. I'll just say this a lot of a lot of
I I guess I'll say a lot of founders forget this
a 10 to 20 person team and that's like a that's a medium to
fairly decently sized startup with like if you got 50 people that's a massive startup, you know what I mean? Like that's big
Anywhere on the low end like a thousand to on the high end like five to ten thousand holders
And all of those people are highly incentivized to see things
Uh pad out well for you and your project your your business and also
A lot of them just by the culture things are very very willing to contribute free work towards said business
And it's like you have you have a golden resource here that
Companies across the world wish that they could have
You have it at your disposal like use it and don't don't forget it like for example with the moonbirds
They thought that I was a trader
I was i'm one of the more well-spoken at the time that I was with the moonbirds like they thought I was just a day trader
Looking to get in and out of collections. Like I held that bird for nine to ten months
I don't know what you want on me
Like i've been i've been holding that puppy for a long time that doesn't like I can I know how to hold something
and that to me is just like
You know know your audience know the people who's holding your stuff support them
Because they're the people that are gonna like lift you up the amount of power that five thousand to ten thousand holders
Has over a 20 to you know, 30 person team max
It's pretty massive and just leverage that. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off that hard good things
No, it's all good. I mean it it's it's exactly the point
I mean you need to figure out like like who are the people that you're trying to attract and for what cause you know
What what is the purpose of distributing tokens to people? What do you want them to do?
And you know, you can't just you can't just like like
Gather people in the spaces or in a discord chat or to zoom and be like here
Here's what I need you guys to do like you have to build systems
That basically again it rewards them for you know, it it gives them
an incentive to go out and do things that they think are valuable and
Decentralization has to be it has to be something that scales
And so you need to like basically put frameworks in place that make people want to build in your ecosystem
But also they're actually building something that actually
favors the ecosystem and so, you know without going too shilly into what we're doing like that's what brought me into into nfts because
Our founders talked about it from the very beginning and you know
That's kind of the first thing I did when I started as a software engineer
I built a bot in our discord that distributes our off-chain token
And that basically incentivizes people not just to come to our discord every day and mine this token
But to connect with one another, you know, we have this mechanism called give to earn
So in order to get the token you have to give one token to somebody else in the community and you know
Um about three or four months later and it basically built this sort of like invisible network
Like if you don't know what what people are doing if you don't know that they're actually earning a token
You wouldn't see it, but it's actually creating this very very um, you know, uh cohesive network this community that we have
You know, it's it's been a big part of our success as far as like maintaining positivity through all the volatility because that's the hardest thing
In in any business, um, you're going to have volatile times
There's macro events that you're out of your control and in this industry. We just saw two major ones over the last year
Um in addition, I mean i'm just talking in the crypto industry specifically, but there's also other you know, even more macro events
So yeah, it's about buildings to me. It's about building systems. Um that incentivize people to actually
Stay with you through the hard times. I actually like have that like take that stake seriously
All right that that I that I get and it's also, you know, if you want another example, it's things like
Um, i'm a seal maxi, you know the meme machine from the sappy seals. That's a super super clean
Fair easy way of having your community like bam
You've got you've got like immediate engagement. You have immediate
Like content that you can share on your twitter
And it's just super easy and it's just a way for your whole community to get involved in a shared action
That just empowers said community to to create something cool something to keep in mind
And those are like examples that I like to pull from i'm gonna throw it at dots
And then I want to say hi to scion slime dots. What's going on?
Man, it's really hard in these twitter spaces to go back to what someone said like 10 minutes ago too in like pivot conversation
I'm sure every i'm sure everyone thinks that they're like, oh my god
My hand was raised but I do have something good to say and I kind of want to defend kevin rose a little bit
I loved what ip nerd and good things said
Um, I think all the opinions and I have been super spot on but like one I think we can all agree
That kevin rose has good long-term intent. I don't know if people agree with me on that
I'm just gonna take a thumbs up there, but I think kevin rose long-term has good intent
I just think you know, there's misalignment with his community against expectations and this happens to every single collection
Floor price gets parabolic
Granted he I think they meant that at 2e maybe 3 I don't remember the exact number
So it's still a lot of money, but you have to deliver
You have to deliver expectations back to to the highest floor price, but still, you know
I think they have good long-term intent
I think they just have an identity crisis a lot of people bought in for hype and speculation and we're hoping you know
Moonbirds prove this is the next
You know great ip in the space and then kevin
it seems like what he really wanted was to be you know, the new punks the new the new nouns the
You know the art collector's pfp like they're saying right now and it's just a misalignment from
His holders and what he wants to deliver and I still think that's fine, right?
It just takes time to pivot against that so that's why all the announcements land flat
It's like, you know, it's not what this space technically wants, but it's what kevin wants and who gets to decide what's what in that scenario
Really matters. And if he's able to curate a community of
amazing artists, you know
OGs like people that are really respected and in web 3 and i've been here for a really long time
Then I see moonbirds going really, you know really far
I think some of his takes are poor but they come from a place with like seemingly good intent
Like he probably shouldn't have name dropped a board ape specifically
Yeah, in my opinion. It's frustration
I mean, I yeah, I mean he's probably a little frustrated with the idea that like he can't do anything right
But still the idea was to like console his community
That you know, it could be worse
Right. Um, like that was the intent whether whether he got it across correctly and you know
He leveraged the wrong social capital
He he picked a fight with board aid like that's not you know, that's not something you want to pick a fight with so
Yeah, the last thing that you want to say to a board aid holder is hey man you're down more than I am
That's not gonna flow well with them
I think also Nathan what you mentioned I think is incredibly important
it's um, if you're trying to build a
Native web3 brand and you're trying to leverage ip whatever nft's pfp's whatever it is
You have to really hyper focus
On what you want your brand to say
Without saying without saying it so like I think you mentioned the misalignment of like expectations from holders and like
from like the moonbirds founders as a whole I I think that's pretty spot on because
If you look at some of the top projects in the space when you think okay
What does their brand or demographic of holders look like you could pretty easily identify what those are?
Without even putting too much thought into that and that's how you know
They have a really strong mission statement and a lot of this stuff that they deploy
Is directly in line with that mission statement and continues to add value to whatever brand or ip they're trying to scale right now
So I mean look at think of like azuki's for example, like
You'd be kind of hard pressed to be like
Oh azuki's have built like and then list out five like incredibly innovative or like, you know
Shit because they haven't I think they just have a really really strong community on top of like I think their
Their brand and ip is incredibly powerful too and they just continue to lean into that
And then obviously you have holders who are spending tons of money on commission artwork
For their azuki's right like and people love doing that and that's just like free marketing again right there
So yeah, I don't know everything you said. I I definitely agree with
I and I agree with you like it's a you know, it's social capital. It's a constant fight
For and in the broader market. This is not everyone. Okay, like I was one of those people that
I was like, you know floor price doesn't matter at one point because I just thought what we're building is amazing and that people flock to it
social capital in this space and like
Money-making and extrinsic extrinsic values what drives the space and like this is not a dig at azuki or degots
What they're doing is amazing. They make you feel fucking cool
Like 95 percent of people will wear will rock that and just be like I am elite and web 3
Doesn't matter what the fuck you've done
Right. So it's like socially positioning yourself is so important in the in the broader scope. So
Um, it's hard for other people to compete against that ideal, right?
So it's almost it's almost the in my opinion. It's almost like a vast majority of the importance
If you think about it, we're in a space that is inherently
Incredibly perceived value like driven by perceived value
And so what does that look like exactly what you said, it's that it's that social capital
It's that market attention and how much market share of those things. Do you have and we see it time and time again
Whatever whatever is flooding your timeline everyone go and click the home button without exiting the space
Obviously if you click the home button just point out
Everything that if everyone is talking about it
That is what is probably pumping right now and that's kind of just how the space has always been
And maintaining that over a long period of time is incredibly difficult incredibly difficult
So like my hats off to the founders of the teams that are managing to do that
Continuously because it's very very hard
And and not to rant against that like I used to say the and again
I'll stop speaking so other people can speak with my last take but
Um, you know I used to say like oh
The the day you release what your product is the floor price collapses, right the day you tell people what you're building
Like they don't give a shit. I think luka was able to change that
But I think he did it in such a way that he built the social capital of pudgy penguins
Like look at my community. Look who's in it. Look who's a part of it. Look who's talking about it
Look who supports us and then hey, we launched this product and everyone bought it, right?
So it's like the idea against this is like he still played the game correctly
But he launched the product with that game and he's winning because of that and I think
Other collections are gonna have to like start struggling and your product could be anything like mean land's launching mean, right?
I think it's still decided what?
Uh d god is doing and maybe azuki is doing specifically, but it's like, you know
They're able to do this and build social capital. So it just it's a launchpad for the product that they're creating
So that's why they're winning
Fascinating honestly, this is like one of my most one of my favorite topics of conversation. Um
The only reason I want to respect your stage dude, there's some great people in the audience
I'm gonna say something for like two minutes and then make some room up here and drop down
I'm not trying to you don't you don't you don't need to drop down. You're good. Just what's on your mind, dude
You're the best. I just wanted to run off that luca points
He said something at vcon that I think should apply to like every project and founder
He literally was like this is not my project. It's not my company
It's our project and our company and he like basically said the holders
Are just as much, you know a part of this, uh leading the ship as I am and we've seen it
I just literally went while we were in the space here looked at kevin rose's timeline and i'm not saying there wasn't any
Luca's pushing everybody stuff out. Wob is pushing everybody stuff out
And if you want to build an army to your point eddie, the meme machine is giving them the artillery
It's giving them the tools and the weaponry they need to go out onto the timeline and fight for you
And if you don't give them that you're fucked dan. You know what that is?
That's brand loyalty and that's in this market. It's incredibly hard to build but when you build it
Now now your focus isn't okay. How do we maintain customer attention?
Because you've covered that with brand loyalty now
It's about how do we scale the customer acquisition part of it?
And so that you nailed it bro, because that's what it is brand loyalty
Also, it's fascinating when you talk about the seals
It's things like I will say from a social perspective
I know for a fact that if I make a tweet that's like remotely positive about the seals and tag the seals i'm
Going to get a seals like possibly a retweet wob's gonna like it possibly retweet it
And I know that it's going to do a fair it's going to be a fairly well engaging tweet
And as a result like i'm highly incentivized to do so
And so are all of the seals so like that is that is something that's you know, it's an interesting
Interesting concept to watch develop i'm gonna take a quick break from the hands
I want to say hello to psyduck and I want to say hi to slime psyduck
It's always a pleasure to see you around dude. How are you? How are you feeling tonight, man?
Hey guys, um, i'm good. Thanks for yeah. Thanks for calling on me. Um,
I don't know what to talk about. I can talk about anything, but uh
How are you doing? I'm good. I mean, I know that you're
Barely adjacent to some like high level founding teams. It's not correct me if i'm wrong
But aren't you on a founding team with andrew like
How do you how do you feel about this whole funding founders?
Yeah, yeah, I was um, we actually broke up a while ago
I'm the founder and web2 myself
It's pretty interesting. You know, i've been in a mental state a few times where
When I sell something for like the last time or like when I've mentally decided that
I'm gonna leave this project as like a community member not as like a trader or whatever
um, there's like a thought process that's sort of like
Why do they make it so difficult for me to be a holder?
You know because I feel like most people
give a lot of chances and a lot of benefits of the doubt until they
Mentally decide that like they're gonna they're gonna sell
And it's usually like not after one cut, right? It's usually after like a thousand cuts of like small
Like very small just like mistrusts or like breaking of trusts or like
You know, maybe you said something that made people question
You're describing my moonbirds experience. Yeah, it's like it's like not even like big things either
You know, yeah, like maybe it's a few big like big things, right like missed expectations or missed deliveries or execution
There's also other small things like things you say that make you sound incompetent or like untrustworthy, right?
Or like it makes you think wow
Like if that person says this
Like I wonder what's going on behind the scenes or like or like what are other big things, right?
Like Kevin Rose, for instance, it's okay that he's trying to make a big point
But then like he's saying things are just not true. For instance, like comparing like saying that
Um pudgy penguins and V friends their their deliveries were like the same exact thing quote unquote when when they're not right
And that's what makes people
Start to question his own competence, right? Like
Like if you're if you're comparing those apples apples of apples and like what else are you doing?
You know, that's just not right. So
I I think like to me it's it's it's something that happens over time. It's not like a big
Like one-time thing, you know, and and like, you know, a lot of you folks know I was in cool cats
but cool cats to me had a similar situation where I was like
You know just miss run honestly and just like lots of little missteps that
Made me question the team's abilities until ultimately, you know, I decided that they weren't for me
It's fascinating we're talking right now especially between like nathan jen good things, uh sidek and frankly basically everyone here
Someone like the the stalwarts of the 2021 nft class. It's interesting like this is uh
speaking from pain and experience
I get you i'm gonna talk quick to sign sign. How you feeling today? Good
I'm feeling good, man. Um
I damn this has been kind of awesome to listen to
Uh, I stopped smoking weed about like four months ago when I moved to miami
And my wife just landed from los angeles, uh with the weed pen. So I am
Feeling good listening to you guys. Just kind of like, you know, we're working on the computer listening to you guys
Add me in the first half slime. Yeah, that'd be in the first half, bro
Um, so I I won't go on a uh too long of a rant because i'm not at the capacity right now
But um when it comes to founding uh funding founders
Oh, man, that's just such a uh, a tricky subject
But there's a big difference between founders that start something good and are involved in every bit of the project which
I think maker breaks makes or breaks a project
If you're a founder you come up with a good idea you assemble a team and you don't have
Any say or any input or any of your touch of why you because I mean when it comes down to it
Where a founder the project had the idea so they had something in their mind that they thought would work or not. Um
Are there bad founders? Yes
Um, can I don't think that founders have no job. I feel like a good founder has all the jobs
Um a bad founder takes no responsibility
Um, so that's kind of my random founders as far as moonbirds
I guess all I would have to say about moonbirds is
It's uh, it's kind of an unfortunate thing in the space because it happens all the fucking time
But with moonbirds, it was just at such a big scale
so much money so much more
Money invested so many more big big heads as part of the team that just kind of it was just it's like a rug
On a big scale. I don't want to call it a rug
I hope that they come back and do something for for the holders provide value or utility
But that shit happens all the fucking time every single day
projects, you know kind of
overpromise and under deliver and we've we found out recently that zero utility is better than most so
Yeah, it's unfortunate. My yeah moonbirds is kind of crazy
I remember they had like some sort of cyber attack during the mint that caused a lot of fun, too
It's just a crazy project. It's a crazy case study
But again, there was so fucking much money in that project and they made some random holders from that raffle so much money
Um so much so yeah, it's a crazy thing
But I think that shit happens all the time with less popular founders like Kevin Rose
I remember being in the discord. This was in one bowl apps
And I remember there was like some kid in there
It was like his first nft that he was looking to mint and he minted like one of like the the jade
uh moonbirds and ended up selling it for I think it was like 80 plus eth it was his first mint and I was
Yeah. Yeah, I was like this is
And and real quick on him i'm gonna keep you i'm gonna let you go on that
But scar is a photographer who was starting as a freshman at nyu and that one sale was his entire college tuition
Which is sick and I think slime what you mentioned was because it's at this scale, right? I think
For a lot of us, it's kind of a disappointment only in the fact that like I I would I still am rooting for moonbirds
And I think I always will but I think it's like, okay
Here's another project where we can prove like credibility for the nft space
Like these guys are making it they're making they're doing cool shit
Look at the type of market attention that they're getting
Um, like this is incredible like to me. It was just another good
Resource to prove credibility for the nft space
So like the fact that it's kind of been a little bit of a falling grace from from like where they were initially
It's just a little bit of disappointment for me personally, but i'm still you know, I have I want them to succeed
Um, I think it'd be incredible for holders
I think it'd be incredible for the nft space as a whole like i'll never truly want
The worst to happen for nt projects. I think we should all root for each other and stuff like that
But it's important to give criticism too
100 before I go I get a little chatty wondering hi
So i'll tell you guys a funny story about the day of the moonbird raffle
We were on a on a vc on discord
And we were like in this this dawn slash alpha group. They're still around. I hope I hope they're not listening to this because
So two people that from our group, uh won the raffle one of them didn't wake up on time
Believe it or not. He was up the night before like buying nfts
And that morning we were like blowing him up
He must have woke up to like 400 missed calls and a thousand texts
And still to this day if you jump in that that that that doubt they're telling him
I woke up on time because our other friend who did wake up on time
Sold his moonbird on vc with us there for like 162 000 and the reason i'm telling you guys the story is because he actually
Lost it all in like a week and became heavily, you know
Depressed and had some issues took took off like six months from web 3 however long it's been
And actually just heard back from him about a week ago
And it was like a really sad story because this guy was like a web 3 d gen d gen d gen and like risked it
No, he didn't risk at all. He didn't anything figure out how much was like three whatever it was
But the what you know, they're told that it took on him mentally after that loss
Um, yeah, it kind of kicked his ass. So yeah, that that's my story for moonbirds. I didn't win, but I would have woke up on time
Um, but yo eddie, you're the man bro. I love you so much. Thanks for letting me up here
I will I will be quiet now and you'll kick me off if you need some space much love
Love you too slime and actually I am about to rotate so apologies slime, but always always always killer to see you around chief
Hopefully I see you tomorrow on ruto when ruto's hosting tomorrow. Yeah, cool
Cool. I'll love slime talk soon and go enjoy your night, dude. Like it sounds like you were in a good mood
All right, let's keep things rolling jenna's had her hand up for long enough so jen what's going on
Assuming that you're still there she might not be there she might be away. All right, jen i'm gonna let i'm gonna let you cook
I'm here my fucking phone. Oh my god. Um, okay
About like events and like spending a fuck ton on events
People should not be throwing in events just to have a fucking party
Like your event should have a purpose and yes, it's to bring people together and yes, it's to have fun
But like one i've thrown a lot of really large events, right?
Usually we would make money off of literally throwing like very expensive events because you get all of that paid for and all of that sponsored
Like hire people that know how to throw events one
Two have like a purpose with the event where it's bringing new people and bringing new customers in right?
Some of them can be small
but like you shouldn't be spending all of your budget to create an event that a third of your holders can go to
And then everyone else who can like get to that city
Especially if the shit is global right like think of ways to empower your community across
The board and like with everyone and having them connecting together
um also like community rewards and I I do think there's been a lot of people that have like
Said like oh like you need to be listening to your community
Sometimes your community is going to have fucking awesome ideas and like I know i've seen that
Um, sometimes your community does not know all the inner workings of the business
And so they might not see the bigger picture and like things move really fast in web 3 and another hot take here
I don't really think we've seen like
Many sustainable long-term projects, right?
And that could be because one what they're building is long-term. So we haven't fucking seen it yet
But like this explosive viral pumping moment that like lasts for six months
Like that's not longevity and the things you need to do to get that
Versus the things you need to do to be like long-term are really different. It's not always something you can communicate, right?
So like every project is going to be different in that and I do think that if you're
focused on community you need to like one reward your community and two have an outlet
and support and an ecosystem for them to activate their ideas if people are like actively building for you like
Let other people see them grow into like positions and parts of the organization, right? But like
You know being a holder of an nft does not always mean you're a part of the company and I know i've brought like
publicly traded companies into this space where like
We really defined both internally and externally the difference between holding an nft and holding stock, right?
Completely different roles and I think a lot of times people get confused
Um in this space with that and like what you think you have
Saying you might not and like some projects can do that and that's cool
Um, but not every DJ non discord knows that around a business and I think keeping people happy versus activating every idea
They had are two very different things that said
Reward good ideas and and give people a way to do it
So so jen you say you're saying like those crypt toys that you can buy that are star wars nfts
When I buy one of those i'm not like part of the star wars company
I mean to be honest, I don't know shit about star wars or these nfts. So
I don't know what they promised you
I've never seen star wars i'm gonna get canceled now
I started watching it and I was like they didn't tell me they filmed this shit at burning man and then I got kicked out
Um, I don't know i'll get there one day i've been deejaning but yeah realistically
You know no one loves to read the terms of service or even the website or even the announcements
But usually a lot of the things that people have are upset about have been pretty clearly laid out
And so yeah, I hate to say dyor but like
Also, um, I see some interesting people in the audience like uh, i'll call them out. Kayla
So i'd like you to come up here if you can be awesome to hear from you. Um
All right, let's keep things rolling because there's so many hands and I want to be respectful of people's time. So
Cancer i'm gonna go straight to you. What's going on?
I'm chilling. I had great dinner with my family and uh
Got off a really really nice call with the founder. I look up to quite a bit
Yeah, everything's just moving forward really happy with everything. Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday and uh, yeah straight ahead
Concise and bullish. Let's go. Is that all?
Uh, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of intricate, you know stuff I did today
But i'm not gonna bore anyone with that just lots of great things happening
Um got reached out by a couple different magazines that I was surprised about and you know
Lots of cool stuff lots of emails lots of dms all that
Damn, okay. All right bullish sick. Let's go golden. What's on your mind?
Hey, can you hear me? Not in clear chief. I'm ready for this one
I felt that you were throwing some thumbs downs before you came up. So
I think that a lot of people are missing some fundamental points
The the fact that he had to have Kevin rose had to have a public
AMA where people were giving him constructing advice and people on here are saying
Get a pr person. Oh learn how to delegate to other people
Like if you don't already know those things
Then you're retarded. Okay, if you're to be in that position
You can't help this guy out. He's he's cooked. He's absolutely cooked pure the guy he was talking about
Oh, you can hire a pure manager that was on here earlier. No, he can't he's damaged goods
Sure, they can replace them. In fact, they probably should replace him as a as a new
You know make him, you know fade off into the sunset
That's the first order of business I would do but for the love of god the fact that people in here are like
Well, I would I would learn how to delegate to people. Yeah, no shit
That's how any successful business whether an inner tier otherwise works if you don't know how to delegate and build trust
A lot of these people in these spaces don't have any business acumen in real world and they're they're talking like
They know business because they watch television or something
Or it's not if they don't understand if kevin rose doesn't understand the basics
a pr and delegation of business
I don't know what to tell you but he's cooked
My intensive experience watching shark tank has educated me heavily
But I I know that jesse's got some thoughts here because he's been he's been throwing thumbs down since you started speaking great
And after jesse i'll just throw in my little tiny opinion because I forgot I spaced out forgot we were talking about kevin rose
Um, no, I mean first of all, uh, no one's getting canceled. It's no big deal
But yeah, I think we could do without the word retarded now. It's all good
Uh, i'm sure I used it when I was like 13, but I think we that's one we can kind of substitute other words
Um, but the other points I kind of under I would also take issue with only to this extent. Um
The the web3 business whether you you can't be a shareholder as jenn said like legally you literally can't be but it's also
Probably not a sustainable business model, right? It's unruly to have you know
Kind of a sort of mob rule, but we've basically decided at least for now as as web3
Acolytes or whatever we are that that being ultra responsive
And transparent is basically
Um, probably the the thing that people want the most
Um again board ape seems to be its own thing for some reason they've been able to be they're essentially now like a mini
corporate disney type but almost all the other ones if you look at
Obviously frank is is kind of the the golden child of this
Um, then I think also pudgy penguin same thing
Um, it's basically, you know
You don't have to do everything, right?
You do have to basically go into your discord or go have a twitter spaces if something goes wrong and kind of answer questions
Anytime something goes wrong. You have to basically listen to a bunch of like bozos just like
You know criticize you and you have to go on this apology tour
I think it's kind of embarrassing for us in web3 that that's it's gotten that far in many cases. Um
Was azur azur bala when that thing went bad? I mean we've seen it a lot of times
It's it's kind of I don't think that's the healthiest way. I think it is, you know, it's nice to have
Your you know company to a bunch of people that know what they're doing but um to just say get a pr person
I'm, just not sure that that playbook
And I don't know where you're coming from golden. Like if that if you were marketing just not so you're wrong. No, no
I'll wrap up here. Sorry. Let's go. I don't think it works. We period it's not what people are looking for
But then also many of the people that these people like and i'll just say elon
Right, they they like the elon playbook where you know, you kind of
Elon doesn't get his own right and I don't think elon is is a great model for anyone
Not not I mean i'm not a huge elon fan
But not I just also just think he's like one of a kind so whether you like him or you don't like him
I'm, not sure just saying do what elon does is really a good playbook for anybody
There's certain people that you just can't realize now, you know general over generalizing
And so I just don't know that saying like, okay
Yeah, get a pr team get do this do this traditional playbook people are looking for that's not what I said, dude
That's not what I said. Yeah, go ahead. I went long go ahead
I don't maybe you didn't understand what I was saying. Maybe it was just kind of lost
I don't know. I said that a pr is not going to help this guy
He is damaged goods at this point if you were starting over
Then you would have you would want to put someone who's a public face who?
Is likable is a good communicator who doesn't slight other projects and can build relationships. I'm i'm saying
Jesse, I think we're actually more on the same page
This dude can't be saved at this point
He needs to step back out of the picture
And let someone else take over if there has if there wants to be any fighting chance for that project to
Succeed and have some longevity in the future. I I don't I don't care about a pr. I think that he's he's blown it
Um other stuff in terms of delegation of management. I mean i'm talking about
Having a basic corporate structure and I would disagree with just because it's a web 3
Company that you don't need that basic corporate structure, especially
When this guy has a war chest, I think of over a hundred million dollars in vc's wanting to
Profit as much as they can and so it would I think that in that type of situation where there is so much
Financial banking that there would be more of a corporate management
Expectation for him i'm not talking strictly from
the holders of the nfts nor am I trying to
Uh draw a comparison to shareholders because that's completely different
Conversations which I at least appreciate on a very basic or rudimentary level
My my point is he's damaged goods
He needs to step aside and the need to simplify it
Very, you know a basic structure. That's it. That's all I think we're generally on the same page
And i'm sorry if you misunderstood my comment about the pr this guy's
Yeah, I don't even know and again, I just appreciate the take golden want the uh, okay
We have jonah and gogo that just got up here and also ledge and then uh, I think really quickly though
Should we should we go to to callous man? We have for those who don't know co-founder?
We will but I i'm messaging with him
I'm going to give him a second because he's got his hands a little bit tied. So whenever he's good
He'll just toss up his hand. Um
Jonah we're gonna we'll we're gonna go to you then go go then ledge
Hey, yeah, I just had an amazing time on the bendavi space. I was
Gaslighting them for a good 30 minutes
Dude, i'm just so sick and tired of that garbage
Yeah, I know I know they uh, he's
There I said, do you think nakamiga is the next you guys like you probably I own an ape and I don't care at all
I said, uh, you aren't bullish on yuga being a game company. He goes no i'm like
I was just basically roasting them that yuga's a game company now and then other apes came up with like well
It's not really a game company. It's a ball provenance. Yeah in the game. You're right. It's a provenance in the game
For 20 minutes fucking had to time my life. Yeah, other than that kevin rosh should step down
I don't know if if the moonbirds can succeed with him at the helm like i'm not even i'm not even sure
Is I feel like he could do everything right and it just wouldn't it wouldn't matter
Real all right. I'll be real for a second. I'll tell you i'll tell you why what the problem is because he's actually smart
He knows business. The problem is is that he's not hungry
The dude's worth over 40. He I was on space this morning. He's like money doesn't matter
I'm like well to the rest of the world it does and you may say that but that's just not true
Okay, like the reality is it does matter money matters a lot. So when you say that oh, I don't think about my wealth
You're lying. Okay, so it's just you know, that's some like vc. Bullshit. They tell you it's not true
They very much care about their money
And specifically identify his success in terms of dollars, right? So so I I was like
There's two problems. There's two problems one
He's already a big success and he's not I don't think he's hungry for another win
And I think he should have stayed in vc land because surprisingly he's actually very good at venture capital
That's actually shouldn't be a surprise, but he's actually very good at vc. He's good at being a vc. He's good at mentorship
He's good at helping structure companies
But I think you know once you're worth over 40 50 million dollars if you're not starting something from scratch
That's as radical as this then give it to the next person and here's the next problem
And I noticed this the past few weeks and everyone could say oh, it's not true for whatever reason i've noticed that kevin wants to be frank
Why no why no, no, it's amazing
When you brought that up to him on the stage, he could he pushed back so hard against it because it's true
But it's so true. It is true. Like with
This whole thing of uh, bring on the fud was was that's a global frank fucking move, dude
Like he's over 40. You don't need to copy a guy who's 23
You you are the fucking you're supposed to be the guy like, you know, like if I if I was his age with his success
I wouldn't be trying to copy someone who's 23. I'd be like
It's time like one. I would use my own methods, right?
If I wasn't if I was never a hype man to begin with I wouldn't try to be a hype man
Because it's not who you are naturally
And also if you're in the fucking art game and being the high arts so the bees and christie's person
They fucking hate hype. So why would you be going against the main objective of what you want to do in the first place?
The admittance of irrelevance like if you're if you're saying hey bring on the fud
You're only saying that because you recognize that fud is publicity and at least some publicity is good publicity
So all he was doing when he was saying that wasn't just admitting like
He's like in his 40s, he's worth over 40 million dollars. You own some of the rarest art in this fucking space
He's got houses with bigger square feet in la than most people do and like why do you give a shit, bro?
Like run a really good business. You know how to do this. You know how to invest in stuff
You don't need to be famous
What about since you come from vc are you familiar with it? Do you think what about the need to pivot constant things, right?
I think you guys can't hear each other ruto. Can you hear jesse and vez versa?
Yeah, i'm rude. I'm not sure you can hear jesse. I wasn't wondering what that was earlier
Jesse just uh, i'll tell me one more comment then i'll go down since i'm happy
Do you think the need to pivot constantly is like not an asset for people that were in vc where it's like you kind of are supposed to
Stick with your thesis for a while and then maybe once you have a little bit of you know product market
I have a very different thesis though. Like so like i'm a
Uh, first of all, i'm barely a vc. So he brought up spv's today. That's actually what I do
So I know how to do spv's he probably knows how to do it better because he's got more years on me
But I know that I know the spv game very well
Actually, I think you should do that. I think that'd be very good for his holders if he did that
I have a different philosophy and I think he probably sees philosophy, but I don't think it's one that vcs have ever had to deal with
With ai and with all this technology
If you build a company with a certain goal
Let's say you want to be a car parts manufacturer. I'm just making an example because I don't think this would be disrupted
Let's say you're a car parts manufacturer
And it takes you about a year or two to develop product. You finally get to market by that time
Someone else has probably already replicated it using ai or some other tool or whatever it is, right?
I'm and I and I don't know car parts
I'm just using an example
But before you even finish using that money to get to market someone else has already recreated it because it's easy to create
Almost anything now with ai at least on a software basis
And so the whole idea of having software as a moat has been completely fucking obliterated for now
Until there's a new moat that we don't know about or it turns out ai is very expensive to run or something
Like and then you have this creator economy, right? You could be like you could be a fortune 500 executive from from
And and you still would never have the success of someone like mr
Beast because they have more brand reach than you do and so you have to end up working for mr
Beast and so all these vcs who are like the mod
The vc model is fine founders with extreme experience and network and create a moat
And now there's this whole world where audience is currency and you don't even need a network or a moat
You just need to be able to capture attention. And so how do you invest in attention?
That's a very hard thing to invest in that really disrupts the vc model and it's almost like every influencer is like a spack
Like like you may invest in the creator, but you don't know what they're gonna become
So all I'm saying there is that like kevin rose knows this and I think he's falling into his own
Understanding of what like new vc looks like because if you're into old art, you don't need to do this
But frank does this and so like
Like a vc's mind is if you're not ahead you're up behind
So if you're not ahead with someone who looks like they're winning
You're losing and frank whether he's making money or not looks like he's winning because he's very malleable
Because one day he can be an ordinal fucking developer and the next day he could be a coffee maker
It doesn't matter. It's whatever the trend is going to be and that's the narrative he fits
The problem with that is that as far as i'm aware and I I do have an idea of how much money they've made
At d gods, I won't say the amount but I've I have heard the amounts privately
Like the problem is unless you are frank
You don't make that much money and even frank is not making the level of money that people think he's making
So like he's getting caught up in like he's getting caught up in the college experience and not in the fundamentals
I'm gonna keep rolling through these hands because I do want to make sure we say hello
Um, I said I was gonna go to gogo and ledge and I will still do that. But calos you're you're on deck
Okay, been like five years
A lot of the steam of what I was gonna say earlier kind of went out the bushel
I the title of the space is kind of
A delight to me because really the problem with with the fresh new problem is kind of the recycled problem
That everyone's been having with kevin is like he can't accept accountability
The missteps that he's had several times in a row here today was just an example of him
Um trying to deflect what has happened with
His own project and and say well these successes for these other founders were essentially
Good versus bad timing in the market
holders and their actions
You know given market conditions
Toys didn't go great for gary b even though he essentially quote unquote did the exact same thing that luka did with pudgies
But pudgies and their toys are going great for luka
Um, see it's just market conditions and and that was essentially what irked so many people
It wasn't he didn't just make one statement against board apes. He compared
multiple different projects and founder versus founder and he he was creating fud
against other founders by diminishing their accomplishments and essentially
Ruling it right down to market timing
And saying anyone could accomplish anything with just a little bit of luck and a little bit of timing
But if the timing's off then it's not gonna go so great and you know
dollar for dollar blah blah blah
And that's what everyone took issue with instead of just someone else having really great business acumen and fleshing out
um a product strategy that is actually
Pretty much the best concrete example of an nft project
developing an outside revenue stream
That is not just coming back to the blockchain and releasing another collection of something else
um, it's actually going out there into the real world and
Everybody going out there and buying it now granted. It's only been out
Like a week a week and a half. Um, but everyone
Is receiving this with a resounding?
Um, you know sentiment of support and we'll see how it does in the long term
But you know gary v's toys flopping with toys are us. I mean that was a poor business choice
Who who uses who uses toys are us?
Move it was not like he was comparing
It was like, you know, I mean he hadn't built up a brand
For saying we're gonna develop a product line with a game
That you can then go online and be active in and choose your traits
That match your actual toy and you can play this and go in and get get
friendships with other people like any other online game and
incentivizes you to have more activity and the more activity the more points you earn that all it's it's
Thought out to the finest detail so that people actually want to
uh participate in this and use the physical item
I mean one one does not even resemble the other in the in the slightest bit
And then you know, I mean so that's what people took issue with was one founder fighting every other founder for their success
You can't you can't do that because the founders that are finding success out there are the ones that are
Supporting other founders that's that's a true like trademark
Trade of other successful founders are the ones who are saying, you know
That brother over there is doing it, right?
Let me give him a shout out. Let me get on a call with him
Let me do x y and z with that project
That's what people like to see especially when they have you know
Not a whole lot to root for in the space because their bags are down. They're like, oh shit
These founders are getting together and maybe they're gonna do something cool
Man, my bag sentiment might go up
Like that's that's that's what you have to do
So if you have a struggling project the last thing you should do
Is speak down on other successful projects like you should be reaching out to them praising them saying hey
Which let's let's get together on the playground
Let's play abscotch. What should we do? What let let's get together and and do something
And I have to agree a little bit I don't think he's like a total lost cause because
He has decades of experience
So there's something in there that knows how to do business
Maybe he just forgot because he's on the blockchain and he's lost
um, I agree with golden a little bit that like if he doesn't get his act together quick like
I don't know. I I can't tell him what to do, man. I can't tell kevin what to do. He's got more experience than me
He he needs to clean it up quick or he really is going to tank it for good
Now gogo, I will just say I do think
That a oh, hold on one sec. Um
Have to have to get kayla's back up in a sec. Um, I will say I do think that there's like a
a good part of it that was less about him fighting other founders and more just about like
He was fighting the wrong things. Like he didn't you know comparing pudgy toys versus
V toys are they're just completely different. That was fucking crazy. That was the only thing that really
But I mean but yeah when it comes down to it he's like
Well, I mean he's he's not giving credit where credit is due
And and yeah, and it also shows that he
It also shows that maybe he doesn't really understand the business. I don't know that's that's where I get that's why he's not here
Actually doing that's where I get concerned
Either right, I gotta go next to ledge what's going on ledge and we're gonna hit kayla's afterwards what's going on
Hello. Hi, you know, I just been up here for a while and um, really
Good to see you ledge. Yes. I know right? Yeah, and yeah, just new york just fun times dancing
So, um, I have to say though to um, I know dead eddie has said that he's the uh, the top dancer
I think I might have won the dance off. So just saying
Just saying with that. Um, but you know, I don't know if anyone else saw saw the dance off but uh
Coming with words tonight fair enough
But yeah, just you know, I really um loving everything that's up here right now with all the conversations like go-go left everything you said
Also listening to jen earlier actually sent uh gave you a follow because I just loved everything you were saying
Um, just wanted to give you a quick little dm
Just saying that like I just really liked everything you were saying on that because also I saw
um, you said educator of nfts and that goes right into the conversation of funding founders
And I think a huge part of
All of this is lack of education
lack of just telling it like not even telling people but also like educating the space
On what their project wants to be because I think a lot of times people are just saying we want this we want that
We want this and like well, why doesn't the community want to have like why isn't the community interested where it's like because they don't know
What you're actually doing and so when you talk to a founder and they explain someone one-on-one
And they go that sounds awesome
But 99 percent of your community doesn't know that because you did not educate them on what you're trying to portray
So I think that's a huge part of education
So that that's like one kind of one note. I want to go off of and then the other one that actually kind of is
You talk about these projects that go as community driven
Oh, it's all about community-led
Oh, well, we look at projects like azuki or pudgies or these projects that people love and they go
Oh, well the community leads it like well big part why the community leads it is because their floor price is high enough
That they look at the floor price and they go well i'm spending my time
In this project and spending like being a community member. I am promote
Promoting and supporting it because it's going to increase the floor price and then in turn my investment
And then in the long run it's going to make me money versus short run
It's not but majority of projects don't have that so all these founders that go
Oh, well, we want to be community driven
So you look at like so really you're just being lazy
You have nothing you're going to do and you want the community to do everything who are making they're not making any money
Right the they're not paying the community
On a monthly basis to support or promote or be the social media
You know like posting things on discord or doing everything on twitter, but the founder goes
Oh, well, we want this to be community led. We want them to run the spaces
We want them to do everything but they're not paying them and then in turn it'd be like well
Return on investment where you can you know sell your nft eventually
But that that only works for such a small
Like percentage of projects
So that's a big thing with founders too where it's like lack of education
And then lack and honestly i'd say it's laziness the founders. They just assume
That the community is going to do all the work
And that's where a lot of projects fail
I just want to really quickly laugh because I thought you were going to ask me to make a tutorial on how to fund fund
Just one. I think we might have chatted for my other account before your p.f. Felix familiar, but I will message you back too
Um, I think a lot of people don't know what they want. Right and this is like not just in
Um web3 like literally had a meeting with someone
In another industry today to do this, right is like defining who you are your mission, right and like
A lot of people will make like goals like oh, I want to be a top 10 on openz or whatever the fuck that it
Like that's not who you are. That's not what you stand for. Right and it when you have a really clear core value
Then you can like move into many different areas
And it still makes sense and it's still on brand but a lot of people just want to do what's cool in the moment
But like if you're just following other trends
There is a cap as to how high you are going to make it
Because you will never be the first you're always going to be below them, right to a degree
Like come up with your own original ideas
I I just hate when people are like we want to be the this of this like can you describe it without using other project names?
No, I guess you and and now I I have to
Have to respect calus. I'm so thank you for for having the patience. I it is problem. Yeah, no problem
Working away. I'm catching up listening to everybody and
You know getting a sense of what's going on and some of the stuff
I'm not a fully but you've been aware of I think I live a bit under a rock of my own little work
But yeah, it's uh, you know, I don't know. It's I think it's it's easy to speak
I mean, I think there's probably some valid criticism and it's you know
What i'm hearing is true and at the same time though, it's easy to speak ill of others
And I just tried, you know not to and to stay out of all that
I just want to focus on the stuff that I think is really cool to make and
With my team and you know
Those for those who don't know
Could you just say you know what you've done?
Yeah parallel, so you can go to parallel.life. It's parallel tcg is the
Is the handle so we're only
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Let's hope right like I mean
I think you know, we had our closed alpha obviously
That's been that was really good and we have our beta in july
So the game will go into closed beta in july and then transition to open beta
Um, it's a card game and then we're also working on a number of other kind of pieces of software
Around our avatar program, uh, which is kind of like
Uh, you know you can see a picture of it on my profile and on parallel site
Um, yeah just working away
I don't know i'm really out of the loop
I'm just kind of catching up what I was hoping to do when I was quietly listening here before I got called out
It was just kind of see what everyone was talking about. I thought go go really laid the
Kind of landscape out nicely and you know, I thought that was helpful just to catch up
And I will ask you this though
Obviously parallel has gone through its times where it was the talk of the town to like
To completely disappear in certain circles and like I think it's I think it's making a serious comeback right now
Obviously for people that are actually paying attention to gaming but for me
I'm curious like what's that ride been like for you?
We hear from people like nathan and other founders that have gone through rides
But I want to hear from you as well. Like how how's it been?
Um good. I mean like I think obviously you feel when you know
Your when your community is unhappy you feel it right like if you've done something, you know
I'm usually the first one to be like hey, that was a total mistake and here's what we're going to do to rectify it
I've done that a number of times in the early days if you've been around for our pack drops that preceded all this
Um, so I don't think there's any harm in saying, you know, something didn't go the way you planned
Um, as long as you can provide the logic around why you did it the way you did it
And so that way people know that it wasn't nefarious
I don't know you just kind of you want to build what you
You know set out to originally build and you want to build beyond that and you want to do what you're kind of yourself
you know what your purpose is and
Developing whatever you're developing in our particular case, right i'm telling a story about a world
Of five different parallels which are all human but have been separated for thousands of years and
And that know the cards help do that
And as you're kind of building those cards and you know
Things go great and things go not so great and things go great and things go not so great
You really just kind of cornerstone yourself on like I really want to make something awesome that people love and have fun with and
And if I keep doing that and course correct when I really do get it wrong
You know, then that's probably going to steer the ship in the right direction that's kind of how I see it
I just try to I don't know do your best right like i've I come from a place of having built a lot of software and stuff and
It's not easy, right, but you know
You you want to make something that brings people joy and like I think that thread can be found in a lot of the grates
Out there is like maybe it's just a picture that makes you really happy or maybe it's a toy that makes you really happy
Or maybe it's a card that like entertains you or whatever it is
You know, that's I think that's the ultimate goal is make people, you know
happy, and I think that spreads that has virality and growth and
Um, obviously I focus more on utility of you know, being usable assets being usable in a game
And just delivering on those promises, right?
I think like eventually code meets promises and and you want to make sure you have integrity and did what you said you were going to do
Let's uh, let's make sure as an audience that kayla's here has more followers than he's following
I mean that I feel like that would be reasonable
I feel like i'm just gonna follow more people instead just to keep that number other way around
I like learning from people. I think there's lots to learn from everyone and
I try and as much as I can, you know take something in that. I don't know anything about and
You know, it's not what it's like kind of about like learning from each other
Yeah for those who don't know much about parallel. I highly suggest you
Dive into it. I I remember buying up some of my first
2021, uh, maybe like around fall time of 2021 and I just thought it was like super super cool. What was going on?
I mean even right now parallel are still getting like hundreds of sales a week and and like people don't even talk about it
Which is pretty crazy. So there's obviously
July's around the corner, right the game's coming out
And I think it's it's one of those situations where everyone's just waiting for
To see that I think a lot of there's play
I think there was like a couple
100 people in the closed alpha or maybe a couple thousand in the closed alpha and the beta will be much larger
And then the open beta is really everyone. So I think that's going to be the inflection point of like
You know, um, did they did we as a as a team?
Really build a really high quality product that's super fun to play for everyone. And if we did then
You know that that will have its own natural growth curve
Kayla's, um, i've been following
parallel for quite a while, but this is my first time meeting you it's a pleasure and if
When he was speaking with us earlier this morning
Kevin had been able to provide
such a beautiful and succeed answer about why he loves
Proof and moonbirds are there to provide the space with
I I feel like I would have kept rooting for him
I've been rooting for him this whole time especially because like mishaps seem to keep happening and yet I feel like
Enough of a skill set to come back from all of this but he
He could not provide an answer like that when someone asked him
What do you love about moonbirds? Um
Want to keep this project in the space?
Uh, he stumbled with it and it was a very vague
strange response and I just got really sad
I don't know. I think I think
In the whole web of everything that they're trying to keep afloat and they lose like their original compass of why they set out on the path
To begin with so I don't know
Hey, you guys fixed it you get you got more followers
Yeah, no, no problem. I'm not gonna suggest. I don't you know, I don't know enough about really the circumstance
but like I can say like if you've
tried to build something you really love and really care about and really like pour yourself into and a lot of people are
Alongside you pouring yourself into it and it doesn't work like it almost like kills your ego a bit
I think like that's a healthy thing
You you kind of want to feel like
You know you're with the community in that you have a lot to lose and that you want to really you know
You all care so much about what you're actually trying to deliver
That like you park your bullshit
You know you leave it at the door and you just really try to like objectively find
What makes the most sense and sometimes you hit like, you know, you're stride and I think like
You know we on our side like we did stuff that you know
Maybe it was unconventional at the time
We were making these 3d assets and we were converting them to ar and then obviously we found a way to you know
make them a sense make sense with ai and
And we're kind of working on this stuff and it's it's you know, cresting now
It's becoming a popular conversation because of chat gpt and
And you know, I think like you have waves right where you're right and sometimes where you're wrong
I think that's like an inevitable, you know part of your journey
But like I don't know when you're wrong and you know
You're you you definitely should you know, try your very best at least to kind of
Understand what's working what's not
Um, and again, I don't know what the situation with him is at all or anyone in the space because I do talk to some teams
I try to be quite collaborative. I've helped a lot of teams or other teams have helped us
um, but you know, I don't know them personally, but I do think like
Um, what you don't want to do is, you know try and um
Be inauthentic when things aren't right if that's if that's what you know
What I'm understanding the case to be maybe i'm wrong. I don't know
And caillos i'm so glad that you joined us tonight. And by the way, you are welcome anytime any day of the week
Uh, well only monday through thursday because that's when we run these so so any day of the week that is monday through thursday
Before we go because I am gonna have to clear out these hands
Because I know papa ruto over here has to go at some point, but I want to start off with with nathan
Because I know he's got something to say directly to you then go hunt out and zico
Oh god, really really put me on blast but caillos. I just wanted I have a question for you
But I also wanted to give you flowers
I'll give you a little bit of lore about kaiju kings. I remember july 31st
2021 like it was yesterday the first of parallel tcg pack drop
um, it was a month into my quote unquote nft journey and really experiencing this space and I was lucky enough to
And subsequently papered it instantly hate to say that
Uh for three eth but that three eth changed my life
And I was able to use that money to build out kaiju kings and can continue to do what i'm passionate about
So oh man, I love that. That's awesome
So happy man, that makes me so happy. Honestly, I love that right? Like no, dude, you can't you killed it?
I and i'm i'm in the struggle with you like I want like I don't know how to express it enough
You know at that time that was life-changing money and nft shouldn't all be about financialization
And that's kind of leads into the question
I want to ask you about being a founder is
Do you wish the game was closer to the pack launches than uh, you know year and a half two years?
It's been and do you love the speculation and how the the prices have fluctuated?
Uh, because I know it probably gives you headache too. So
Yeah, I don't know if I like I mean there's obviously
Uh, you know positives and downsides to that
I think like I wouldn't change anything because like I ended up exactly where I like today
I felt for the first time in a long while I was like yes
It's like it makes sense again
And you know as a founder you want to feel that every so often that like is reaffirming
Because it's very much like you're navigating imagine yourself alone on a boat with a compass and like
That's all you have to rely on and you end up doubting yourself
If you've ever been alone in a forest or on a boat or something like that with a compass you're always like is it working?
Is it not working? Maybe I should like, you know, check the shadows because maybe it's just not working
I'm not going the right direction
You end up feeling like that
And I wouldn't change anything
You know because I mean the community obviously and I obviously participated in that boat decided to proceed and
You know what I what I love for the release of prime to be closer to the game
I think that would have made a lot of sense and sort of for the folks in the audience
This is like kind of getting nuanced, but it's relevant to say
I think though, you know, would I change it? I wouldn't I think
Maybe I would have been more focused on you know things that didn't you know
And the team working towards
Some of this ai stuff that is super relevant or maybe
We would have made other mistakes that could have been more detrimental. So like I try not to look back
And like it can't all be good, right?
Like not everything is going to be good
That is the inevitability and the truth of the matter in life and in business and in
You know all of this and nfts and in crypto and all of it
and so the best thing you can do is like find and maintain some sense of
regularity to progress so that you and understand where you want to go to the best your abilities because it is
You know, sometimes the destination isn't exactly perfect or known
Don't you know maintain that motivation and and and momentum towards that target?
And like cornerstone it for us for corner stoning ourselves on the release of the tcg is obviously, you know
Everything because that's what we really focused on and started
And you know beyond that it's all opportunity again to say like hey, this is something that we're working on
That's not the tcg that's interesting to us and we have the skills to do these things and we think this could be really cool
And you know using that sentiment from the community to say like is this and trying it with you know mods in our discord
So I guess like I mean i'm super grateful and happy to hear you say that and thank you for supporting us
That's like super awesome. I hope you enjoyed the pack opening experience and I hope you enjoy the game in july
Um, and yeah, I mean, you know add me make sure you DM me if there's anything ever that comes up and you feel unsure
Or I feel unsure i'm happy to hear from you and you're you know, hopefully you're happy to hear from me
Yeah, I got I got one more funny thing. So
One I still have all my cards from
2021 besides the key and maybe like a couple hollows. So just a heads up
It was like a life-changing one at the time
But something funny is you guys raised at 50 at 500 and you know, i've learned a lot through this
This was very early in my journey
But I vividly remember going into some of my first vc meetings
And saying yep, i'm raising 20 at 200 i'm a first-time founder and if parallel life can do it
I can do it. So good for you. You have to believe in yourself first, right?
First-time founder, right? Um, but like good for you. You have to you have to believe
You know a lot of people are going to tell you I got laughed out of rooms when I first, you know went to raise capital for
For parallel and people were like no one wants a sci-fi trading card game. That's what they said
Like they were wrong and that's okay, right? Like not not every you know
Thesis of an investor is going to be right who knows what's going to you know
What the the zeitgeist of the time isn't what the market wants
But like what you have to believe at minimum you have to have conviction in that you can do it one
And like you can build the thing you say you're going to build
And obviously do due diligence, please so that you don't promise things that you can't actually build
And then two is you know, hold your head high and know that just because someone says no to you
It doesn't mean that you're wrong
Someone wrong how good does that have to feel when people count you out and you come back and you're and you just show them
What's what god that's like one of top top five life's pleasures right there for sure
Yeah, it's a pretty good motivator too, right?
Like when you're doing when someone says you're not going to do this or you're not going to do that
Like that's pretty good fuel on the fire, right?
I don't think you ever really feel like you proved anyone wrong in the end
You just move on to the next thing that you thought you were going to do rather than like I think when you're in the process
And you're like, oh, I can't wait to prove this person wrong
It's almost like you know when you get there you don't care to celebrate that you're just like i'm I was right great
But let's move on to the next thing that I think is even is bigger than this and is greater than this and will
Help educate people and bring people into the space or whatever. It may be here. Whatever your goal is
Well, you're far from it and let it go
You're a far more calm cool and collective person than me because i'm uh
I'm, unfortunately a petty person and I would shout on top of a mountaintop
And I proved it wrong. So
No, it's incredible. What the team has done over there in parallel on callos and just you should be super proud of
All the stuff that you have
Yeah, I really appreciate that and thanks everyone and definitely watch out for the beta close beta release in july
And um, you know nathan. Thanks for for that comment and gogo
I appreciate all your recap and
If I can just say hi to some of the folks in the audience real quick before I pop away because i've got a two-month
Old baby. Hey ted keep doing awesome things at pdao
Hey bobbin. Hey brand. Hey guys. Hey everyone who supported us. Thank you so much for everything and you guys are all the best
And eddie, yeah, yeah, yes, sir real quick if you could tell fitch to check his dm real quick
I will sure I will I will and eddie. Thank you for inviting me up. Of course, dude
I'm, so glad you came up if you ever are free on at 8 p.m. Thursday through friday through thursday. We're always here
I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Everyone. Have a wonderful day chaos
All right, like I said, i'm gonna get the honto and the zico before we wrap things up. So honto what's going on?
Yo, what's up guys, um, so I think the biggest difficulty
In web3 you're starting a business in general
It's just like finding product market fit because
A lot of these founders in the previous cycle when they raised capital using nfts
It's not really product market fit as much as it is people speculating on the price of the asset
Because then they can later sell it
I think right now with consolidation and the way that market's going people are finally realizing like oh shit. Maybe I need to actually
If I want my company to succeed long term because they're not projects. These are all companies
And for example, like one project on salana that I really like is sharky fly
They didn't do nfts until later on
But they just started a lending protocol and then the nfts are the things that are getting I guess dividends from
The protocol on the platform
Finally realizing like oh ip is the power play in web3 and we need to utilize all these people in digital collectibles
Um, and for like let's say sappy seals even
I think the one thing that i'm confused about with sappy seals is like is it a game or is it ip because
Sappy seals has really strong community and a lot of people in the community are always making memes. They're always making cool
Uh things and they're always super super active
But isn't making the game necessarily like the best play for sappy seals when you have such a great community and
All these projects are just going to keep struggling with product market fit until they really find a real business that can sustain long term
I think that's valid. And while I do love the seals, that's probably the biggest question hanging over them
We'll see how things roll to that end. But sappy seals. Um, the answer is sappy seals is arf
All right, let's keep things rolling hot. I also appreciate i'm sorry
We can get more deep into that but i'm glad you come through zico. What's going on?
All right, let's uh, let's let's take it home
Um, uh, how tall are you just saying about speculation man? Like just a very very bright
This isn't even what I was like trying to say, but i'm gonna say anyways
Anybody who's innovating is speculating because there's no guarantee that it's gonna work out. So that's just that
As far as like the sentiment of the space right now
I I don't know if kevin rose was the uh inspiration for the title tonight
I think he did say some pretty silly things earlier
Um, I don't know how much we should hold kevin rose, uh to the standard that all founders should be held to
Kevin rose is you know, he's been around for a while
He's you know clearly comes from web 2 not not that I have anything against people who come from that world
But you know, the main thing is that you know being around in the nft space for a few years now
It's like I remember some of the people who were getting started with their projects when they were like snow fro from art blocks
Or han from crypto cubes just two of the the people that's that that stand out stick out
And they've always done things in their own way
And I know that though like especially with snow fro it might seem like you know, like
That's that's a high bar, right? But like I think it's also an example of exemplary
I think that we need to see more of that in the space just because the sentiment is so shitty right now. I mean I got
Unfortunate, but that's the reason why they call it a bear market a bear market is not a fun time
I don't know how many people need to fucking write that down and look at it and repeat it themselves every day
Would it just look at your funder in this space?
Like just keep determine keep determination
Keep your determination strong rather
don't let any of this get you down because
uh, this is just the part of the cycle the fortunate thing for us is that um
Crypto works in cycles and that's a feature not a bug
You know, so uh, just try to just try to remember that keep keep in mind where we're at at this point in time
And that's really all I came up to say
And on that bombshell in the words of jeremy clarkston, we're gonna wrap things up. Ladies and gentlemen
I hope you guys enjoyed this one
This is probably one of my favorite ones for the past few a few weeks or so because I just I don't know
It was some good conversation and got to chat to people that I don't normally get to chat to
Um, if you guys like this on the bottom, right that purple button like a like does go a long way
Uh, you don't have to retweet the space is you know wrapping so we don't need to get this in front of other people
Ruto you got any thoughts here?
Dude, uh, yeah, this was an incredible space man. It's it's a lot of thought provoking shit
um, hopefully a lot of people generally didn't come in tune in and
Leave this space thinking that me and eddie are like absolutely bearish on founders because that's not at all the case
Um, I think we've mentioned it multiple times that i'm incredibly bullish on founders. Um, I want as many founders to succeed
I want this space to have credibility. I want whatever people ask me what I do for a living
I don't want to like shy away and say that I work in tech
Like I won't I want to be able to be proud of like this shit that we're all still here actively building, man
And in order for us to get there we got to continue to build each other up
But you know criticism give it when it's warranted for sure
Um, but with that said guys keep in mind. We do host these spaces monday through thursday's eddie
Uh gets monday and wednesday. I host tuesdays and thursdays and we are part of the tda brand with expresso in chief
And they run those spaces. Um
Every tuesday at 10 45 a.m
Uh 10 45 a.m. Eastern to 1 45 p.m. Eastern
So so every time you say that I I love you, but I I always wonder I get it wrong every time
It's like you're like, yeah, they're gonna run it
Tuesday at 10 45 a.m. Eastern to 7 1 45
Dude, i've said it hundreds of times at this point and I still have to remember it
Okay, oh she's you're good. Yeah, you're good. You're good. You're good. Okay. All right all love to you guys
Thank you guys for tuning in. We'll see you guys tomorrow
And with that said with that
Yeah, with that being said guys, um
We appreciate you guys. We love the sport
You guys could have been anywhere in the world, but you were here with us tonight and for that
We love you and we'll see you tomorrow on the tda and the really good web3 show. Love you. Thanks for coming out