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🚨 Future Unchained: Tokenized Intelligence & Agentic Web3
Recorded: July 1, 2025 Duration: 1:07:03Space Recording
Short Summary
In a groundbreaking discussion, leaders from Project Zero, Layer Zero, and other key players in the crypto space unveiled significant advancements in AI integration with blockchain technology, including the launch of ZeroChat and a new machine economy free zone in the UAE. The conversation highlighted the importance of privacy, innovative partnerships, and the future of tokenized assets in decentralized finance.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello?
Hello, everyone.
Hello, hello.
We are six sharp.
Thank you very much for joining.
Hi, Alex. Hi, Martin.
Hi, Kenny. Hi, Jochem.
Hi, Rashid as well. You're here right? Everyone is here.
Sorry. Yes, everyone is here now I think.
Hi everyone, happy to be here.
Hi guys.
Hello, hello. Amazing. Okay, everyone has been out with us added as a speaker so I think we are we
are good to go very much on time which is very much on time which is actually which is actually
great alrighty let's do this so hi everyone again I will start a bit kind of like slow just give it like
a minute or two so for people to join um because we are very much on time which is very surprising
for a live event so thank you everyone for joining on time um we are very, very happy to be hosting this space. And we have some brilliant
speakers from the industry with us today. However, before I start with kind of like formal
introductions, I'd like to quickly introduce myself, and then maybe kind of like very quickly
just touch upon on the theme what we will be discussing today
um so i'm christina i'm leading product marketing at um product product zero and today i will be
your host um with the wonderful speakers and partners that we have today here with us we'll
be discussing about authentic web 3. and i And I'm pretty sure that you've heard about Authentic Web 3.
You've heard about AI agents.
Everyone is talking about that, especially the last few years.
And this year, 2025, it's an item for discussion
pretty much everywhere.
So I'd just like to give you a very quick
overview even if i'm sure everyone kind of like knows uh what it is um so authentic web 3 is
the next evolution of the internet it's where autonomous ai agency direct with their environment
for example they interact with smart contracts, data, machines and protocols,
and so on and so forth. And, you know, if you think about it,
it's a bit crazy what these agents can do, they can make
decisions, they can own assets, they can execute transactions,
they can collaborate with other agents and humans. So it's, you
know, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty amazing.
I was reading an article, Cointelegraph the other day, and it was saying that the Web3, some, a lot of Web3
executives actually believe that by the end of 2025, more than 1 million AI agents will be live on Web3.
And the most likely early use cases will be staking and trading.
And if you think about it, that number is massive, is vast.
But for all this to work, agents need a powerful stack.
And that means data, infrastructure, compute, privacy, interoperability, tokenization, and
more. And that's exactly what we will be talking about today.
So I'd like to just kind of like take a second
and zoom in a bit about like on the data.
I would like to take a second and can you hear me well?
Sorry, just received the messages.
Yeah, OK, perfect.
Just give me a second. Alrighty.
So yeah, so just like kind of like zooming in for a second on the database and talk a bit about data.
And, you know, reality is that agents and decentralized apps applications are only as good
as the data they can access and act on. And data is an extremely valuable asset that can make or
break a product or a company. And that's exactly what we are doing here at Project Zero. So
Project Zero is at its core is a blockchain data infrastructure.
We have been solving, and if we have any developers
in the space, they will know that,
but we have been solving the challenges that developers have
when trying to build apps and AI agents.
Some of these challenges are unreliable data,
very high costs, high latency, and so on and so forth.
So we've built Project Zero with that in mind in order to kind of tackle these challenges.
With Project Zero, decentralized applications and AI agents are able to operate seamlessly across multiple blockchains and extracting and transforming kind of like vast amounts of unsafe data and turning that
into actionable insights and real time decisions.
Kind of like very briefly, I just want to talk about the three
products that we have at Project Zero.
So the first product that we have is our streaming product,
which is an alternative, a much better, faster and more efficient
alternative to RPCs.
We have zero APIs and our latest and very, very, very cool product is ZeroChat.
And actually what I wanted to mention before I explain a bit ZeroChat is that towards the end,
we will be sharing some really, really cool news and exciting news.
So I will i will strongly
strongly suggest an advice that you stick around till the end um so if you have been following us
and if you have been following project zero you've probably kind of like seen on twitter that we have
been talking about zero chat for the last few weeks zero chat is basically a web3 native ai
agent that is built as the application layer of Project Zero.
ZeroChat is your assistant, copilot, Web3 AI agent, you name it, you call it.
And what it can do is it can actually analyze vast amount of Web3 data
and turn it into an instant and actionable insights.
So, you know, users, instead of manually checking a lot of dashboards, they can ask Xero to analyze, for example, their portfolio.
They can ask Xero to analyze, to identify opportunities and so on and so forth.
But Xero chat is just the tip of the iceberg, right?
And the truth is that our agents don't work in isolation.
As I said before, the layers need to, you know, the layers of, for example, infrastructure,
compute, interoperability, confidentiality, autonomy, and so on and so forth, need to all
work, come together in order to make this successful. And that's exactly, as I said,
that's exactly what we're going to talk about today. So I have an amazing, amazing lineup of speakers that is here with us today.
And I would love to give everyone kind of like two minutes to introduce themselves and talk a bit about like what they do. Kenny from Lazero. We have Alex and Lisa from Ziknet Network.
We have Johan from Aether.
Martin from Peak Network.
And Rosid from Nexera.
So, you know, enough for me and Project Zero.
Now I'll pass it on to you guys.
And maybe, Kenny, if you want to kind of like take the stage
and maybe introduce yourself and talk a bit about Lazero.
Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much for having me on today. I'm Kenny, I lead ecosystem growth and go
to market here at laser zero. We are an omni chain interoperability protocol that connects
over 130 chains today, right? So what that enables you to do is for any chain to read state data or
send any arbitrary bit of information from one chain to another. The most lowest low hanging use case
of this is probably value transfer, right? Like, you're probably familiar with things like Stargate
that enables bridging of like USDC, USDT or WET. That's the liquidity layer built on layer zero.
But on top of that, we also have our own cross chain token standard, which is the most widely
adopted cross chain token standard in space called the OFT or Omni chain fungible token standard,
which allows for one and one-one mint and burn transfers
of any token that's onboarded.
Some of the more notable examples are probably Athena's USTE, WBTC by Bicco, and the list
goes on and on.
So thanks so much for having me on today.
Super excited to talk about how Layer Zero fits into Agentec DeFi.
Amazing.
Thank you, Kenny.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Maybe next I can pass it on to Alex or Lisa,
or maybe both of you actually.
Sorry, I think we're both waiting for each other,
but I can introduce myself.
I'm Lisa Loud.
I am from Secret Network.
I lead the foundation side,
and we are very excited to be here today.
Thank you for inviting us. We're working on making AI confidential for everybody by building the backend infrastructure that has TEEs built in.
are going to be able to do in order to super turbo boost their careers if they use AI,
but also responsibly trying to make sure that we don't give away all our data and we keep it
private and confidential going forward. And I'll pass it over to Alex.
Thanks, Lisa. So I'm Alex. I'm running Secret Labs, which is the development arm
of the Secret Network. So Secret Network is. I'm running Secret Labs, which is the development arm of the Secret Network.
So Secret Network is probably
the longest-running confidential computing blockchain.
All our smart contract interactions are private,
powered by Trust Execution Environment Technology, TE.
And relatively recently,
we also added off-chain computation, as Isa mentioned, confidential AI, and also arbitrary workloads that can now run in confidential virtual machines powered by TE technology.
And that's ideal for a lot of different applications and very much so for agents.
Because when we talk to an agent, we want two things.
First, we want our data to be confidential.
We don't want it to be observed by someone
who is actually controlling the hardware.
And one more thing that we want is we want to be sure
that we are actually talking to the specific agent we think we're talking to.
This is where confidential virtual machine verifiability comes in.
With confidential virtual machines,
it's possible to cryptographically prove
the exact provenance and the version of
the code that is running inside this machine.
In a way that makes any workload, and the version of the code that is running inside this machine.
And in a way that makes any workload,
and again, it can be written in any language,
anything that can be dockerized essentially.
So it makes any workload kind of a smart contract.
So you don't have to trust the person who developed the code.
You don't have to trust the person who is running or operating the virtual machine. You only need to trust the code because you can prove and verify
that this machine is running an exact version of the code you think it is running. And then you
have a fully trustless environment and code becomes law.
Wow. Okay. That sounds very interesting. Thank thank you very very much for sharing that
thank you thank you Lisa and Alex. Passing it over to the next speaker.
Thank you yes with that maybe I'll pass it on to Johan from Aether. Well thank you so much Christy
and first of all shout out to you because you managed to get in quite a lot
of really good quality projects into one space
and that doesn't happen very often.
So thank you for inviting me.
And yeah, when I hear Lisa and Alex talk,
you know, this space can go,
we can go on for hours for sure.
But let me first introduce myself.
My name is Jochem and I'm responsible
for partnerships at Aether.
Now at Aether, essentially what we do
is we aggregate enterprise grade GPUs, so there's hardware.
We aggregate that into our network, and we source them only from data centers and technology companies.
So they're all professionally managed.
What we then do is we match them with AI companies and cloud gaming companies who need them.
Well, that model is probably pretty easy to understand.
It's been quite successful as well.
So a lot of people that are in this room, they know that we've connected quite a lot
of GPUs to our network.
I think that we're over 430,000 enterprise-grade GPUs connected onto our network right now
in more than 90 different countries.
So those are very big numbers.
But our story is actually quite interesting because it's a story of a couple of pivots
that we had to make in the past.
So when we started back in 2021, we actually started as an infrastructure for resource
sharing for consumer-grade stuff.
So we thought or we saw that there were about 3 billion gamers in the world,
so people that play games,
but there are only about 600 million of them that have not enterprise grade,
high-end gaming devices.
So our thesis was like, hey, wait a minute,
if we can connect them over the cloud,
then we can solve a very big problem.
We can open a very big market.
Now, that idea was very interesting because then I could, for example, play a game on your and
Christy's gaming laptop. That idea was interesting because it was technically interesting to build,
but that's just an internal thing. It was very easy to build community. It was easy to scale.
And then we realized one very important thing,
and that is that you cannot sell it.
You cannot sell an infrastructure
of consumer-grade stuff for gamers
because the truth is that if you, Christy,
close your gaming laptop, then I lose my game.
So you cannot go to AAA Game Studios
and try to sell that.
It doesn't work.
So the story started there.
We had to pivot all the way to enterprise grade,
everything enterprise grade.
And now we're quite successful.
And the majority of the Web3 AI companies that you know of,
they're all somehow connected to us.
But we had to build hard and we had to go fast
to be able to build this success.
So that's a little bit about AT, a little bit of background. And yeah, let me pass it on to the
next speaker. Okay, that's great. Thank you. Maybe Martin, you can give a quick intro as well?
can give a quick intro as well?
Of course, happy to.
Thank you very much for setting up this amazing space.
Right, I think Jochum just said it.
It's rare to find such an exciting topic
and then also such a great set of speakers.
So very happy to be here.
I'm Chief Business Officer at PEAK.
And what PEAK basically is,
it's a layer one infrastructure layer one blockchain for
what we call a human-centric machine economy and um I'd like to just briefly describe what
that actually means because obviously not many people uh have have dived too deep into the
concept of a machine economy but it's very easy to understand if you just look how we started like
seven years ago um the founders
were always very enticed by this vision of a connected internet of things right and we always
used to call this whole topic the economy of things and there was one very big eye-opening
moment and i know that story is a bit strange because um it kind of taps into some very specific things about German culture but we got
a call from one of the VPs from Audi and he was telling us the story where he said hey I have a
problem every single time I charge my electric vehicle at my father-in-law's charging station
I basically need to hand him manually five euros now when I heard the story the first time I was
like okay like why would you have to give your father-in-law five euros for just charging your car but that's not the essence
of the story the essence of the story is that it's surprising that no machine can actually
seamlessly transact with any other machine and the interesting thing was that the father-in-law
was actually driving a volkswagen car so they were part of the same group but nevertheless these two machines the car and the charging stations had had no way to actually
interact and transact with each other and uh what peak then did was making different uh working on
different and different enterprise blockchain cases back in the days with DMG Mori which is
a huge machine manufacturer here in Europe with Vodafone on Laura van with Gucci on supply chain and many many others and realize that we can spend our
lifetime to basically try to break up silos within silos but this will never solve the underlying
problem and this is where the idea of peak was born to basically create this layer one infrastructure
with a certain tooling certain stack that people
can use we call them modular deepened functionalities to basically easily and
seamlessly integrate with the network around one unified standard which is the peak ID right and
when a machine has a peak ID it basically automatically becomes interoperable with
any other machine that has a peak id and um then and that was sometimes
you need luck right uh then the term deepen was coined uh by by i think dylan from from missari
and we've been building this layer one for deepen in a way all along because if you think about what
a machine economy is it's basically this fundamental paradigm shift of human labor shifting to machine
labor of machines robots becoming autonomous
economic actors creating the biggest part of the global value creation and deepens at least the
way i look at it and the way we look at it um are the first iteration of this autonomous machine
economy where it's not only centralized institutions that provide hardware and that provide machines
in order to create economic output but it's actually communities the people that provide hardware and that provide machines in order to create economic output but
it's actually communities the people that can own and scale uh these infrastructure networks and
benefit from them and since then we've grown the ecosystem to uh more than 60 projects that are
building that are building in the ecosystem more than 7 million machines and people that are on
the on chain and we are really significantly now doubling down on
that vision of the machine economy like um working on also the impact component of it working on
making it uh understandable to the people and most importantly also making sure that it's not
only deepens even though it will always remain uh kind of the core of our strategy
but also this idea of um the financialization of this machine economy that we're now bringing to
life on peak um machine x the first machine economy dex has launched we are working with
governments at scale to to to bring that vision to life and to make sure that this new economic era that we are now entering
that of course can be very dystopian i think we all we are all very aware of this but that we
really capture this opportunity and turn it into something beautiful which is a future where people
actually earn and benefit from these machines instead of just being replaced by them
wow thank you for this, Martin.
You said something really nice.
You said you can break a silo with a silo,
which I really, really like.
Thank you for that.
And last but not least,
let me pass it on very quickly to Rashid from Nexera.
Super, thank you very much, Christy.
And super cool to join everyone.
So I have the occasion also to work with most of people here.
And indeed, it's an amazing lineup. What I like about this like like all people here and projects is that it's
exactly the stack that is needed for the future of web 3 and ai like a agentic web 3 we call it
because like from deep in as martin has explained perfectly to the secret like and everything around
like confidential computing from alex to like everything around interoperability around compute and like all the infrastructure which is super so like I do believe
this is why like in web 3 is very very important to speak about competition where every project can
put I would say their strength together to build something and I do believe that with like all the
projects we have here it's exactly the future so will be super, super fast because I know that we have Kenny
that need to live super fast.
So I am Rashida Jaja,
founder and CEO of Nexera.
We have been here since 2018
and our objective since the start
is bridging traditional finance
and decentralized finance.
Along the way,
there was a lot of problems.
Like how can you bridge?
So we saw that the big problem is compliance, but how can you link the real world and the digital world so then we saw defy we saw a lot
of things that started actually to build up so like our philosophy and our ambition start reality
so in a nutshell nexera basically is the tokenization layer powering compliant flexible
and composable digital and real-world assets.
And we do believe that tokenization is one of the foundations of this Argentic web tree,
because it has to be built on top of infrastructure.
But when you have data, you can tokenize it.
Agent will be tokenized.
And we have been on the occasion to speak with Martin and Pig, for example, tokenized robot cafe, which actually can also give some profits
to the people that are buying these fractions it could be defy we had a lot a lot of discussions with with layer zero
around like asian tick defy and interoperable defy because and this is where oft is very very
important so i will stop here i'm super super excited thanks again for the invites
thank you thank you roshid um and yeah actually ken actually, Kenny's here and he's at an event and he had only a few minutes and we're already quite late. So I'm just going to kind of like straight jump into the question that we have to Kenny. And then Kenny can, you know, you can, you can drop it. Thank you so much for your time.
unlocking cross-chain composability. But when it comes to autonomous AI agents, the stakes are,
you know, are quite high. So AI agents will need to move assets, query data, execute tasks across
multiple chains without delay. I would love to know how does and understand how does Layer Zero
ensure that these agents can operate with low latency, high trust guarantees across the planet ecosystems?
And what kind of primitives are being built to make this native to AI?
Yeah, awesome.
And thanks so much for being time sensitive.
I am here at ECC in Cannes, so I've been running around France,
but thanks so much for adhering to my schedule.
I guess, in short, Layer 0 provides on-chain rails
for AI agents to interact with,
right? And I think there's like a number of use cases that we support, right? One of the most
common use cases that we've been hearing when it comes to agentic DeFi is portfolio management.
And so with a data primitive that we're trying to push out called LZREAD, which is something
that's relatively new, which essentially allows data to be queried from any blockchain and read
on any other blockchain, right? So very simple example, if I'm like managing a portfolio, like, let's say I have an agent
that's managing a portfolio on Arbitrum, but it wants to read the price of, you know, like a
WF USDC pool on like Ethereum or something like that, right? It has the ability to do that,
but that also extends to any other chain, right? And so in combining like a data print move,
LZ read with agents, you're able to get access to like any chain that we kind of support, right?
Any of the 130 chains, read data from that and then consume that on any sort of like club chain for use cases like, you know, portfolio management or whatever else it may be.
Or very simply, like we think we see a Gentek DeFi as a means of user abstraction And we're providing infrastructure for agents to interact on chain.
So let's say I want a very easy user abstracted AI enabled experience where I'm simply telling
an agent to bridge a token on my behalf.
You can do that through the OFT standard and the token will end up exactly as it is on
source chain on destination with the exact same amount with the user only paying those
gas fees.
So along those two lines, we think we're like a lot of things to be done in ai and we're super excited to be partnering with
project zero and also a lot of the other folks in this fall to kind of enable that
that's awesome that's amazing thank you very much for for answering our questions mart and
kenny and thank you very much for being here again we'll we'll let you know i know that it's
probably crazy there in can so have an amazing event uh enjoy it. Again, we'll let you know. I know that it's probably crazy there in Cannes.
So have an amazing event.
Enjoy it.
And yeah, we'll just kind of like see you soon, I suppose,
in another space at some point.
Thank you so much, guys.
Thank you, Kenny.
Okay. So maybe I can then move on.
And the next question I have, and I would love to know a bit more,
is about, you know, secret network and what you guys do.
We can elaborate a bit more.
So, you know, as AI agents evolve,
privacy is definitely not a nice to have,
it's a must have,
and you probably know that more than anyone,
especially when it comes to agents
who are executing like sensitive strategies,
financial actions, and so on and so forth.
So I would love to maybe understand from you folks, how is secret network architected
to give AI agents a privacy preserving execution layer by default? And what are some of the kind
of like the real trade-offs between transparency and confidentiality when agents must earn trust,
but also at the same time protect logic.
So I would love to hear your thoughts when it comes to that.
So I guess I'll start.
So there are actually several levels to discuss here.
And I love the example that Kenny gave us.
And that's an agent that's managing portfolios right so there are
several again levels of required privacy so this agent probably implements some
very smart logic to manage portfolios and this logic actually is kind of a
trade secret of the developers of the agent, right? So if this agent is operating in a fully transparent environment,
then there's no way around having people copycat the agent's decision.
So if this agent is so successful in managing people's money,
somebody could just follow this agent and just replicate all the
trades the agent is doing.
Right.
And that's what would happen on any transparent chain.
And this is what wouldn't happen on Secret Network.
On Secret Network, we have a very developed DeFi infrastructure with Shade being our main
DeFi suite, including DEX, lending
and other stuff. So when I perform an operation and transaction on Shade, nobody can know
like what exactly I'm doing, right? So nobody can copycat me, let front-run me and and that's that's very important that's
that's one very important point now the second very important point is again if
I'm trusting my funds to this agent I need to be sure that the agent has not
been tampered with and that's where the secret VM primitive comes in. That's where this confidential
virtual machine that is verifiable comes in. And any user can actually validate that the agent is
authentic and that it hasn't been tampered with. And then I can trust my funds to this agent
and be sure that it is actually doing what it is supposed to be doing
and that it was not changed somehow or modified so that it just funnels my funds somewhere else.
So on those two levels, actually, we provide solutions for agents and for confidential
defined, confidential trading, which are,
I believe both very important.
That's,
that's great.
I don't know if Lisa would like to add anything on that.
I think that covers it.
Amazing.
Yeah,
it was,
it was a very comprehensive answer and thank you for thank
you for that maybe maybe i will have maybe i will have just one question because this is you said
something super super like important alex about indeed so if i don't want people to copy my
strategy i need to hide it for them so like when you have like either you can hide the action and
condition but also i mean the condition that triggered the action of the agents, or you can actually like hide the action, like swap, borrow, invest, whatever
types.
But in this case, it could be bundled into a lot of different types of transactions.
So people cannot check it.
Like, for example, Dark Pool.
So maybe if you can say like how Secret would do it, because I think this is important.
And many, many, many are interested, specifically when we speak with institutional money.
They want to come.
They don't want people to see that they are invested,
let's say, $100 million into this different protocol.
So I think this is a really, really important point that you say there.
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Rashid.
Indeed, this is exactly what we're trying to achieve and what we have available on Secret Network today.
We also have other projects who built on top of Secret Network like SilentSwap that allows actually to bridge or move funds to other wallets in a compliant way, but in a private way.
And this way, if I want to do some transaction on Ethereum, I could use SilentSwap to move
my funds from a source chain or from one wallet to another wallet, and then nobody would know
that this wallet belongs to my hedge fund okay and then
uh then again i'm hiding my you know the source of funds the source of funds in a like the the
provenance of the funds not the source of funds in the aml fashion so uh this is yet another way
to perform those strategies so without without creating some adversary behaviors
and without letting copycats steal your alpha.
That's great. Thank you.
Thank you for answering to that follow-up as well.
And I will just kind of like just move on and then we can have a discussion a bit later on.
I just want to have a question when it comes kind of like Aether as well.
And Jochem, if you don't mind, I have a question for you as well. So when it comes to AI agents, we know that they're only as powerful as the compute that they can access.
And most blockchains do not offer that natively. So when it comes to Aether, you know, you bring
a decentralized CPU layer to the table. But I would love to know how does that translate to
real time, scalable access for AI agents? And can we imagine a future where an AI agent
dynamically spins up compute the way it spins up
a smart contract, for example?
Okay, that's actually a really interesting question.
And my first little crypto guy inside me says,
yeah, that would be pretty cool to have agents
spin up or pay for compute as we go.
And just like that, it would be pretty nice.
There is a big, big danger there, though.
So I want to bring in that nuance because it's very nice to dream about a world where
agents are fully autonomously interacting with each other.
And when they need to learn something new, they come to us and they use some heavy compute for two hours.
And great. Sounds amazing.
One of the things that I learned, and this is the nuance, one of the things that I learned when working for Aether is that you need to be very, very much focused on the business side of things.
The reason that we're making now 140 million ARR is because we're very heavily focused on business.
And that means that we are continuously looking at where's the need in the market, how big is that need in the market, and if that need is big enough, how do we build it?
Now, then you can ask yourself a couple of questions, and I'm looking at this through the lens of a GPU aggregator, right?
So you can ask yourself a couple of questions.
One could be, for example, can we build it?
Is it technologically possible to build it already today?
Well, already today there is some demand for compute on demand.
Technically, it's not very easy to build when you aggregate so many GPUs from around the world.
But it's possible.
B, is there a business case to it?
Well, that answer is actually pretty clear.
Data centers don't like it.
Data centers need continuity.
They need stability.
And in fact, the last question, is the market big enough?
It is still very, very nice.
So it's not really worth our money and our time to build all of this out.
Not yet, at least.
And that's just in the situation where we are right now.
So fast forward a couple of years.
Let's say that we are entering that space where agents need to be able to purchase compute by themselves.
Then we need to ask ourselves the same questions.
Can we build it?
Is there a business case to it?
And is the market need big enough?
And it will take a very long time
before we actually get there.
Before we get there,
we'll probably see a lot of different kind of faces.
So you probably see first that A-tier has their own AI agents
that helps the onboarding.
So Project Zero comes to us, they say,
well, we need more heavier compute.
And then it could be our agent that helps
on the onboarding of finding the right
GPU providers.
Later on, you might see that
your agent actually talks with our agents
first before you and
I connect. So there will
be a couple of steps that happen before
actual agents will be able to
get compute on demand.
Will that ever happen?
Well, that very much depends on the question
whether there's a really good business case for it.
And at the moment, where the business is,
is really on long-term contracts.
Our clients need GPUs for a much longer period of time,
and our data centers, they need that continuity as well.
So very cool dream. Will it happen? period of time and our data centers they need that continuity as well so very
cool dream will it happen probably there will be a couple of steps first before
that happens so like we know that normally there is business to business
there is business to client B2C and B2B but now actually currently not in the
future there are already other models that are existing which is business to client b2c and b2b but now actually currently not in the future there are already other models that are existing which is business to agents business can sell to
agents it can sell compute okay and it's already happening like in terms of like this model and
then in the future indeed which actually started already in some companies which is agent to agent
agent can sell services to agents so i can easily basically like if I am company that is buying some
compute and there are agents that are doing DeFi or they're like the recent article that happened
from DeepMind where basically evolving agent that actually can just use like what we call it swarm
types of evolutionary algorithm that the agent can actually evolve, okay, and then he needs some power basically
to pay for compute for the inference, okay, so at every single step. So in this case, he will pay for
the compute. So I don't see it so far, and I think we are in this space because we are dreamers,
so definitely I don't see it so far like you.
Well, you need to be aware that the GPUs are very scarce.
So whoever owns those heavy GPUs, they will always go for long-term commitments over very
short-term commitments.
So one of the things that got me thinking when a friend of Secret Network was just talking
was that their offering in terms of GPUs that TE enabled is very specific,
very expensive, there are not too many out there,
and that would be a very, very interesting use case
because we have a whole bunch of those into our network.
I wouldn't be surprised that at one point we'll be working
with the Secret ecosystem with our GPUs
and they will be able to resell that for specific use cases.
But then the data centers that are actually running it continuously,
they need that continuous predictable income.
So they will never accept a very short-term one hour yes and
and the next two hours no kind of kind of income that that that is very very
tricky of course but this is why you have model like business to business to
clients so if these GPU basically they need to have a lot commitment they will
be always someone that will buy a large compute and then they will be able to
sell it and I think this is like perfect example but also what peak are doing with the machine economy where you can have like some like having a lot
of lots of compute and then this compute could be sold to many many different types of agents
of machine but i will not speak on behalf of martin of course but indeed like not at the
like the root level but we can see like multiplayer yeah you made some very very good points both of you um and i think that's kind of like that's
the perfect segue uh to martin um who is here from peak um just kind of like maybe to to give us his
thoughts on that um and martin kind of like a question that I had for you. I would love to understand when it comes to how do you see PIX infrastructure enabling a global swarm of AI agents to act on and coordinate in machine networks?
You know, do you see any and where do you see the boundaries between agent and machine blaring the most?
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, we're talking about a machine economy, right?
And we can, which I think always makes sense, just look at some hard facts
or at least some reliable projections in terms of where our
economy is going right and if you look for example at some very very basic statistics like for
example uh revenue generated by autonomous vehicles or future revenue that is being generated by humanoid robots what you will see is that we are going to witness a 40 to 50x increase within the next year two maybe three years
when we speak about revenue generated by autonomous vehicles we are talking about
revenues worth approximately three trillion dollars um so without any exaggeration I think
it's fair to say that the new economic actors are machines but in order for them to actually
be autonomous economic actors obviously they need to follow certain logics and um similar to I mean
that's that's maybe a bit spiritual but similar to how the brain and the
soul is is the cockpit for a human being the agent is kind of the cockpit the decision maker
um and kind of the the the steering and coordination committee for any autonomous
revenue generating machine right like if we think about an autonomous machine if we think about an autonomous machine economy obviously it doesn't go uh or function without uh without agents kind of
basically taking the decision decision making framework and automizing it and um i think i
mean we all know that in terms of ag, we are like basically on a weekly level,
society is kind of reaching new heights,
but we are still just at like the very beginning
of what we're going to see in the not too distant future.
And the crazy thing about it, and that's for example,
one thing that we are discussing with Project Zero
and that we're working on with Project Zero
is similar to how
a normal economy is somewhat connected to the financial economy. The same is going to happen
when it comes to the machine economy, right? You will have real assets, real machine assets that
conduct some sort of service or provide some sort of information, sell any sort of data,
are being used similar to you
how you have it with brick and mortar infrastructure that you've had for the last i don't know how many
hundred years right but then there is a layer on top of this and obviously that is the financial
market and the craziest thing and this is where i'm kind of particularly excited about um the
let's say ai agent enabled machine economy.
To me, it's like the first time
that we are bringing these crypto returns,
if we wanna call it this way,
into a position where they are actually derived
from real world value.
And so what I'm talking about is very simple example.
Think of a RoboCafe, Rashid mentioned that mentioned that example right that is uh let's say at an
airport at a very high frequency location you have thousands and thousands of people passing by they
purchase their coffee from this autonomous machine this machine is co-owned by hundreds of thousands
of different people that have a stake in that machine and the revenue that is generated is not only
automatically being refunded to the owners of this machine but is actually also autonomously
used in order to exercise certain trading strategies in order to interact with with
certain types of protocols now suddenly what you have is real-world revenue tied to global
financial markets automatic and of course, enabled by agents.
So, I mean, of course, there is a blend, right?
No doubt about that.
But a machine economy without any agents is not a machine economy, right?
It would be people-operated machines.
And this is not what the future is going to hold.
So I think it's really a big civilization
scale infrastructure that we are all trying to build and we're all trying to build our bits and
pieces in order to put it together but at the same time and this is where um everyone is contributing
significantly here in the space it's also responsibility at a global scale and making
sure that these agents follow certain
rules, making sure that there is accountability frameworks, that there's privacy frameworks in
place, making sure that we also, let's say, leverage and take the best out of the resources
that we have, right, with these machines. Energy is one example. So every big machine technically
could also be a huge energy storage system, right?
This energy storage system can be used in order to balance grids globally.
And maybe, and this is, for example, what Combinder is building, an energy project on top of the,
maybe these huge country-scale energy outages wouldn't be necessary if we have smart, smart agents actually supporting by tapping into idle resources,
like for example, a robo cafe, you know,
that definitely has enough capacity to store a certain amount of,
of energy.
And by plugging the right types of agents on top of it,
executing the right tasks,
we will basically take a significant step towards what is sometimes
called a tier one civilization, right?
If you look at the Karthashiv scale, like a system, a global system where we all really
leverage our existing resources to the maximum of the capacity.
And so in short, to just answer the question um i really think it's
blending but it's also two different things you know making the find the machines accessible
making the machines investable enabling people to scale infrastructure through the deeper model to
scale decentralized physical ai to have edge nodes like for 3.75 AI deployed at a global scale so that the data input
that these agents need in order to take the right decisions
is going to be crowdsourced.
That is one thing.
And then obviously building the frameworks
and building the characteristics is another.
But they go hand in hand.
MARIUSZ GASIEWSKI- Thank you for this, Martin. It's great and to be honest you know listening you talking about
that, if I distance myself it feels like I'm in a sci-fi conversation more or less with all of
the stuff that you said which is crazy because it's not sci-fi it's actually happening. You're
making an interesting point right like just actually it's it's it's
funny because I was I was at a very traditional company I was at Bertelsmann group right which
is one of the largest um media conglomerates in the world I was um leaving our investments in
Africa back then and then built the web3 hub and then we invested in peak and that's how I kind of
ended up uh doing what I what I love, right? It's like really, really contributing to this vision.
But why I'm saying this is because Bertelsmann started as a company that was selling books, right?
And just within a couple of years, specifically within the last 70, 80 years,
the business model, the different revenue streams, the different business units that have evolved
are so far away from the core business.
And if you if you went back 70 years and said, look, this is
what was going to happen in the future, you'll have digital
advertisement, you'd have content creators that you're
engaging in order to roll out global TV shows or online shows
like the Kings League or whatever people would have thought
would have said this is this is science fiction this is this is so far away and then just a couple
of years later it's the new reality right and this is where all of us I think are not only
strategically well positioned but actually have a have a huge responsibility in terms of
building something that not only lasts but that also makes sure that this new iteration
of the internet that is not as dominated
by centralized players as the past,
even though that is obviously debatable
also in Web3 by now,
but we have a fair shot at changing that.
And it's sci-fi, but in 20, 30 years,
it's probably already outdated again.
So that is fascinating.
Yeah, true.
Yeah, true, true, true.
And as you said, like with great innovation
comes great responsibility as well.
So yeah, 100% agree with that point as well.
Thank you for this.
And I just kind of like, again, last but not least,
maybe kind of like pass it on to Rashid
again and Nexera.
And I know that Nexera is building tokenization infrastructure that extends far beyond assets.
So based on the discussion that we'll be having so far as well, I would love to understand
how the infrastructure that Nexera is building can be leveraged by AI agents to represent identity,
balanced memory, interact with
systems and ensure
accountable behavior across this centralized
environment.
And in your eyes, I would love to
know, Rashid, how
does a truly tokenized agent
driven economy look
like when this foundation is in place?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, like, it's an amazing topic.
Like, we can speak, as I said before, like, for hours.
But I will try to do, like, a brief summary.
So maybe I will just step back.
And, like, before laptop and PCs and everything, like, we had, like,
interaction between human to human.
And we had language.
Then fast forward, we had the PC.
So after we had the PC, so we had basically to create a human to human, and we had language. Then fast forward, we had the PC.
So after we had the PC, so we had basically to create
a human interface, a human machine interface.
And then how can I communicate with this interface,
with this machine?
And then we had the internet.
So then we had protocol, TCP IP, and other types of protocol
where, like, how can we communicate with the internet
through this machine as a person okay and then
so we had we created the digital world and we had the physical world which can communicate between
them and then blockchain came and creates the on-chain world okay and the way i see it is
every time we had to create bridge to communicate between two worlds that are completely different okay so
then we had these agents but before having agents so when we started to speak about like open ai
like all the types of models that we have gemini and everything it was just lms that were in their
sandbox or like in their environments so it, they weren't communicated really with the real world, with the digital world.
Then we started to see like these MCPs,
model context protocol.
Then we started by magic in a way
to that the agents communicate with software,
communicate also with digital world.
So agents can do actions.
So again, we have created this AI
that can connect with the digital world through this api and can
do tools can can book whatever flights can you can reserve restaurants and so on so forth
but then there's the blockchain and how can we connect blockchain with the real world and the
digital world so this is what tokenization for me comes in. So tokenization is the way that you can tokenize these physical assets or digital assets and bring them on-share.
So once they are on-share now, how can I basically create value from this?
So we can already create value because of tokenization.
We saw that real-world assets, it starts like it's every time it's striking like all-time high.
Okay?
But then we want to abstract this for users
because users communicating with the blockchain,
it's not always easy.
Okay.
So this is where we had,
you combine tokenization with MCP
and then you can communicate agents,
start communicating between the digital world
and blockchain and the physical world.
So I call them, this is not factual,
but I just call them tokenized MCP.
So once basically you have the agents that actually being able to be tokenized or can invest, can do strategies, this is where you create the perfect,
I would say, symbiosis between these three different worlds.
And then, so exactly Martin said it said about the deep end and about the
machine economy, and how can agents communicate with these machines, and this is where we
speak also about tokenized machine, how agents basically are able to do confidential computing,
how can they basically be just doing this privacy, and this is what secret network is
doing, compute, so how agents are are able to use compute and so on,
and how agents are being able to interoperate
between chains by extension messages.
So this is actually where we came in
and we built this infrastructure layer
that is exactly in between these three worlds,
on-chain world, physical world, and digital world,
that we give the agent the possibility
to be able to do action like in this different world.
So once you have the agent, so either people can.
So if you have a machine that is in the real world,
this machine could be tokenized
and then it could be fed to an agent through this MCP.
And the agent, it will become the personality,
the soul of the machine.
So now everything physical, everything digital will have a soul.
And this soul is from the agent, and this agent communicated with tokenization.
So indeed, as you said, it's become like sci-fi,
but actually this is something that is here.
We have the technology.
And with Project Zero, as you said, there is Ask Zero,
which is the chat that has been launched.
And then with what we are building in terms of tokenization
and this tokenized MCP, basically, people just from the chat,
they can actually create complete and deploy tokenization markets
just with prompt.
And this is something cool.
And we can also have all these layers,
and this is why I love this lineup,
because actually we can communicate with all these different layers,
from interoperability to deep end, to compute, to secret confidential computing, to compliance.
So, yeah, so maybe I will stop here, but it's super exciting.
Thank you. Thank you, Rasid. Exactly. I think the word exciting,
it's exactly the word that I would use as well.
I mean, I'm thinking that the title of this space was like Future Unchained,
but to be honest, it sounds very sci-fi and all that,
but at the same time, it sounds like it's here already. So it's like future, more kind of like the present of everything.
So thank you. thank you for giving us
your views on this as well i have a few other questions as well but to be honest we are like
five minutes before the end so um i'm not gonna ask anything else because we are running out of
time what i would love to do though um is uh announce something very very exciting and then
i'll just kind of like want to give the floor to
others if they have anything to share as well um so in terms of um our news i would love to share
that um we have received we have received a grant from peak um to build our authentic framework on
top of the big network so we are very excited to, you know, partner even more closely with you
guys. So thank you very much for that. And last but definitely not least, we are very, very excited
that finally we can actually launch the ZeroChat. So again, I talked about ZeroChat at the beginning,
but we are launching right now,
so users can actually use the application as we go.
At the moment, it's live.
ZeroChat, as I said, is your Web3 AI agent.
Think about it more kind of like a chat CPT on steroids for Web3, pretty much.
The only thing that I would say is keep in mind that it's in beta.
So there is still a lot of work to do on our site,
but we would love if you guys can actually try it out, use it,
send us feedback, let us know how it goes.
But we have been working on this for a while.
So, you know, go to askazero.projectzero.io, use it,
and let us know what you think.
And with that, I would like to open it to you,
our wonderful partners and speakers,
and see, you know, maybe kind of like do around and see if there is anything, which I'm sure there
will be, anything exciting that you can share from your side. Maybe we can start with, I don't know,
Secret Network? We can go around again. Yeah, so I mean, I think this whole space is really,
it's a great meeting of different great projects and technologies.
I really loved what Rashid said about, you know,
giving soul to machines.
This does sound like, you know, fantastic and philosophical,
but I think this is really, in a way, what is going on and can really
connect to it. And I would say that, you know, we're excited to work with this great group of
projects and build amazing things together. Thanks again for having us here.
Thank you, Alex. Maybe, Johan, from your side, if there are anything exciting to share
or any final thoughts?
Well, my final words, maybe also very much in line with Rashid
and the other guys, by the way.
But I think that we all build little pieces of the puzzle.
Web3.ai is still relatively small, but it's super important that we keep on building
the alternatives to what we know of a centralized AI.
There's so much wrong with centralized AI.
And when you build, from our perspective,
some of the things that the Secret Network mentioned
about data privacy and other sort of stuff,
if you build from our ethical standpoint,
then we have the opportunity to build together something that is really viable, a viable alternative to decentralized AI.
So, yeah, let's do that, guys.
That's great.
Let's do it 100%.
Maybe, Martin, from your side, anything to add?
Anything to share?
Yeah, I mean, first of all, thanks a lot for this for this amazing very
insightful conversation I think kudos to everyone here um for for for what you guys are building
um I agree with what Joachim just said right like we are all together we're building civilization
scale infrastructure and we better get it right and um yeah just as an update and maybe also
related to this right we have just a couple
of weeks ago two weeks ago we've announced the world's first machine economy free zone in the
uae where um we'll be working with regulators we'll be working uh with some of the leading uh
enterprises on the ground to not only define very clear regulatory frameworks but actually to bring this machine
economy to life within within the the united arab emirates and i would love to collaborate with
everyone here on on doing so because it's a strong signal also that what we're doing is again not
happening in a silo but it's actually being adapted and it's being not adapted by not only SMEs or
enterprises but nation states are waking up to it nation states are understanding that there is a
tremendous relevance in um in getting this right in being open for this for this innovation and
basically building the new iteration of the global economy together. So thank you very much for this very exciting conversation
and have a great rest of the day, everyone.
Thank you, Martin. Thank you. Thank you very much.
And maybe, again, just kind of like close it up with Rashid,
if you have any final thoughts, anything you'd like to share
on the Nexera side.
Absolutely. So like I would be very quick because it's exactly 6.00,
but we started exactly at the good time and finished at the time. But yeah, but for me, like I would say like, yeah, pretty like much aligned exactly with everyone. Like we are building a stake like for something absolutely bigger than all of us. And exactly the term of margin, we better do it right.
for me like i would say what is really exciting coming of course there is mainnet that is super
soon so this is what we said g-15 which is perfect where we will have clients that are starting
actually deploying like huge tokenized assets and it will come step by step and then also what i
spoke like about it before which is this tokenized mcp where we have all our infrastructures from
smart contract to the tokenization engine where people will be just with
a prompt to be able actually to deploy tokenization like platform markets issue assets and it could
be any type of assets even data and we are proud actually to be able to integrate it with the ask
zero with the zero agents where people can already try and can deploy and anyone actually with
absolute zero technical skills they will be able to build markets.
Imagine it like Shopify even make it easier.
Okay.
And also I just want to say that like really proud of Project Zero,
we have incubated them like by Nexera.
Nexera community has been invested into their pre-seed stage.
And now that with all the amazing partners that you managed to do in this period
with everything that you have been building with with the product that is released now.
So really, congratulations, guys.
Thank you. Thank you very, very much, Rashid.
I mean, listen, everyone, it has been an absolute pleasure hosting this space.
You've been amazing.
Martin, Alex, Lisa, Joachim, Rashid, Kenny as well, who joined earlier.
You've been amazing.
Thank you so, so much.
It's been an absolute pleasure working with you guys and partnering with you as well.
And yeah, keep doing all the amazing work that you do.
And I hope that we get to see you soon on another space.
And yeah, have a wonderful rest of the day for all of you guys.
Super.
Thank you very much, guys.
Bye-bye.
Thanks, everyone, for joining.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you very, very much.
Bye-bye. Thank you.
