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FYI Episode 50 🔋 by @Wire_Blockchain
Recorded: April 7, 2025 Duration: 1:21:36Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, participants explored the evolving landscape of the crypto market, highlighting trends of optimism and growth amidst challenges. Key topics included the potential for new partnerships, the significance of upcoming project launches, and the importance of innovation in driving the future of blockchain technology.
Full Transcription
Good morning, good morning.
My God.
What a shit show.
Inviting you, Ben.
My Lord.
Dude. my lord dude all right yeah man here we go yeah right it actually held up a little better than i thought
it would after yesterday today yeah yeah well i saw saw the Asian market open this morning, and I was like,
whoa, fuck me.
This is going to be tough.
It's been shitty.
It's been a shitty day.
But I feel like the narrative may be slightly shifting towards the rest of the world,
realizing they're just going to have to fucking work with him.
I mean, it was really interesting this morning seeing the EU say,
all right, we'll go zero to zero.
Yeah, boy.
Like, that's actually kind of cool.
Yeah, although I'm not part of the EU anymore, obviously.
But, I mean, we'll follow suit on
that i'm pretty sure well i feel like i feel like you guys were more willing to come to the table
with the deal exactly before anyway yeah yeah it's just weird isn't it because like you don't
want to be first but um yeah then get in there make it happen right i'm doing everything i can
man i'm doing everything i can can you can
you can you get like do you have any royal blood in you no no i'm a i'm a i'm a mongrel you're a
mongrel you're a commoner like the rest of us oh yeah a man of the people exactly
your time to ascend the throne oh gosh i gosh. I tell you what, though.
I am so glad I took yesterday off and I didn't just endure it.
So, yeah, I fully, like, didn't timeline yesterday.
I saw it kind of looking like it was going to happen.
I saw all the chat and I was like, I am not going to participate.
You're like, yeah, fuck this.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, it made for a very nasty
shock this morning but um oh so you didn't even really look at the chart at all no not really
no wonder you're in the mood i was in yesterday this morning oh dude i'm curious that makes sense
yeah i i had a i've had a bad day i felt i felt it's weird because i trained i i've been cycling
i've been trying to get back up to like my PB for like a 45 minute cycle,
which is about 17 and a half miles.
I've switched off kilometers.
That's good.
And it's good, man.
It was really, and I got close.
This weekend, I got close on Saturday and then I got closer still yesterday.
And I got on the bike today feeling really like i could do it but my
mood it's weird i didn't realize how much your state of mind and your mood really does influence
like your your performance i just i just keep doing fucking push-ups i just couldn't by the
end of this bear market i'm gonna look like bane then do you remember what it feels like in a, you know, in a rip your face off bull market? You know, like the, I'm talking like 2020, 2021.
No. So I was, I was, I was onboarded December 21. So I've never known it.
Well, I'll tell you, you just wake up every day and you already know you're up. You just don't know how high of a percentage.
that sounds absolutely.
You just wake up knowing that you already have a W.
Yeah.
That sounds magnificent.
Just day over day.
It's true.
It's true.
I used to,
I used to wake up and look and then just go back to sleep.
That must be nice.
You get mad when it's like sub 5%.
You're like,
yeah,
4% this morning like four percent
what is this this is dog shit do you know what though i'm not i'm not like so i have a reasonable
portfolio that i've been building up over the last three years four years and I am really okay with it and like I don't check it every day because
if someone says to me right now is it going to be worth more in six months than it was like my
answer is always yes like I just I believe in what we're all fucking around with here so much
that I'm cool with it I think what annoys me at the moment is more like the
like the capitulation and then I like I've been I receive a number of newsletter emails from like
you know people around the space who you know content creators and all that kind of stuff and
a lot of the a lot of that information like informs the show like because i get it i i put it
into a run of show that doom and i then share and then we're able to come on talk here having
not spoken yet today and have a show where we can kind of like you know have some sense of
conversation and it today despite people being down i get this like there's this thing that fucks me off at the,
excuse my language.
It really upsets me at the moment.
I talk like that all the time.
You don't need to apologize.
Okay.
Well,
maybe I'm the one that should be apologizing.
My Lord.
But what really annoys me is this whole like content creator,
influencer,
KOL bullshit where people are like,
they all,
it's almost like this is great fodder.
And I'm like,
ah, Oh, for content. Stop fucking is great fodder. And I'm like, ah, for content.
Stop fucking feeding it.
Yeah.
Like this stuff is, is so self-fulfilling.
Like it just like, just take a step back and just all think, okay, well this is going to be okay in a bit.
Like we'll be all right.
But instead I, I refresh my timeline and I'm just fed this bullshit, either bullshit or funny videos.
I mean, the bullshit bothers me.
I don't like the bullshit.
I try to make light of it when I see this because it's like, it's kind of like it's one of those things where it's like, well, if you're not going to laugh, you're probably going to cry because this shit fucking sucks.
Right.
Yeah.
Like we all thought we were going to get a bull market.
Everything was set up for a bull market.
We've been waiting a long fucking time for a bull market.
And it started.
Yeah.
And then we got kind of wrong bull.
And now we have, like, a record low.
Yeah.
But this is not a record low.
Okay?
Bitcoin is $78,800.
Right? Sure. The stock market is still, you know, the NASDAQ is. Bitcoin is 78,800. Right.
Sure.
The stock market is still, you know, the NASDAQ is still like 15, three, you know, like this
shit isn't like zeroing out, you know, this is a very rough tactic that I don't think
anybody in their right mind necessarily agrees with, but I think the end result, I don't
know, man, maybe it'll be okay
i gotta go with that glass is half full yeah yeah i mean from the previous markets i can tell you
78k to 200k can happen in a blink of an eye yeah yeah i love this kind of talk yeah i'll
i'll get you back in a good mood buddy this is why this is
why will is a fucking awesome guy by the way yeah i uh i sent um i sent doom a picture before
uh this show of joaquin phoenix uh when he when he's like putting on his makeup and like
turns his frown upside down with his fingers.
And I was like, come on, man.
Big energy.
We can do it.
It's just not.
Right.
So welcome, people, to...
We did it, pal.
We did it.
Half a century.
Number 50.
There you go.
Number 50.
They said we'd never get past 49.
What do they know?
What do they know?
What do they know?
Morons.
Yeah.
Exactly. So episode 50, FYI, me, Doom, and our friends, What do they know? What do they know? What do they know? Yeah, exactly.
So episode 50 FYI,
doom and our friends chat and shit.
We should have called it Ben doom and friends.
That would have been good.
Too late for,
well,
we shut FYI down at 50 and we, we changed it.
I don't know.
Yeah.
so yeah,
we're talking to spinoff.
We could do a spinoff.
What's your favorite spinoff series of all the spin-off series oh like on television yeah like did you like better call so better call
so i actually yeah i actually kind of prefer better call so i think there were moments that
were better i agree it ended amazing. Yeah. Any others?
I've not really been enjoying
the...
What's it called with the zombies?
The Walking Dead.
Yeah, they kind of fell off.
Yeah.
Maggie and fucking...
But, House of Dragons.
That's still going?
Yeah.
The Walking Dead stuff?
Yeah, so it's Walking Dead spinoffs now.
Like, the main thing finished, and then they've been spinning some off.
House of Dragon, that second series was good.
I didn't watch that one yet.
Oh, and I didn't watch season two yet, rather.
So, yeah.
So, season one, I found slow.
Interesting, but slow. I liked it. Series. Yeah. Well, I found slow. Interesting, but slow.
I liked it.
Second season was strong.
Yeah, I gotta watch that.
Yeah, you've got eight episodes of goodness.
Yeah, I probably have to watch Love on the Spectrum with my wife first,
so she's really excited about that.
Okay.
So, welcome to FWL.
Did you watch White Lotus? lotus dude i haven't seen any
of that yet well did you watch it no comments uh i don't know the season finale was last night
it pissed me off so anyway moving on sorry go ahead okay uh fyi oh go, Ken. I don't let my team watch anything right now.
We're shipping product.
They better have to do it.
Yeah.
So even if Will was binge watching seasons one through three,
he probably shouldn't admit it.
He's probably watching it now.
That's why he's not talking.
All right.
He's like, wait.
Wait, wait, wait.
I just five minutes.
Huh?
Right. FYI, episode episode 50 we talk shit we
talk about all kinds of stuff some of the things we talk about sometimes ai and they're the best
shows we do and we're going to do one of them now if you would like to win a hundred dollars
worth of klyzer on base which is still holding up by the way like it's still pretty solid and and empowering
people to create memes super uh yeah meme tokens super quickly on base if on base if you want to
do that um then go down to the purple pill at the bottom right hand corner like repost drop us a
comment say hello say gm if you like just just catch up with us. Help us the Algo.
And then come back here and make sure that you're following all of the speakers up on stage.
And we'll pick someone towards the end who has done all of those things.
Follow everyone. Like. Repost. Comment.
And if you're here because of reach, then hang around.
And I'll let you know the special password thing in a bit.
I thought you were gonna say um if you're in if you're in crypto pivot to ai if you're in crypto pivot to mcdonald's
uh ai first the show is powered today by our friends at wire network and i don't i'm not
gonna do the thing i usually
do where i tell everyone about what it is because they're gonna be talking about it because because
they're gonna be here we've got a show with the guys from wire today exactly so we'll spend the
next 20 seconds talking about the market and then let's just jump into that because that's going to
be so much more entertaining than any of the news today uh bitcoin is 80 or 78 760 okay i mean versus last june it's still fucking flying
yeah i mean zoom out you know don't zoom out on eath no don't zoom out on your nfts what's going
on man what's going on with what do you know what i thought about today i thought about liquidating
a whole load of stuff and just buying a punk i mean i don't know why it was just it i kind of run scenarios um at the bottom signal
yeah and i was like 65k for a punk yeah it's not bad hmm anyway i'm not gonna i didn't do it
yeah i don't i think that i don't know i do want a punk but i don't... I think that... I don't know. I do want to punk, but
I'm cheap right now, dude.
I'm in survival mode.
Same.
Do you guys do any leverage
trading? No.
I don't...
I can't be trusted.
Do you?
I dabble.
Are you long or are you short?
Where are you at on eth right now
oh neutral he's like i'm not he's like i'm not touching that shit i'm not fucking saying anything about that it's crazy out there right now there's a hyper liquid whale that went long on eth again
quite quite significantly long on eth again um well like maybe he something. And I think it's the same one that went
short on Bitcoin when it crashed a few months
back. Well, I mean, if that's the case, that's
pretty smart. I mean, it's
look,
ETH should go back to $2,500
sometime in the next year.
Oh my god, is that it?
I don't know. I mean, you would think
that it would be doing better. I think, I was
having a conversation about this earlier with a couple guys.
And like until until they like, I don't know, fix the foundation, in my opinion.
And like maybe I don't know.
It just seems like it's a mess.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
I mean, the communication, the comm strategy is just shit.
Well, I don't know what their intention is.
Like I've lost track.
I don't know. Vitalik needs to
put the ape on that Machi sent him. That's it.
If Vitalik
puts the ape on, ETH
goes back to 3,000.
And hire a good reply guy.
If it was only that easy, right guys?
I think it is.
Fartcoin up
10%, SPX up
15%.
Just saying that there were two things that bucked the trend
yesterday i don't know it's back to half a billion fuck crazy man we called that a week ago at 420
not strategic far coin reserve yeah yeah keep saying. I still don't hold any. Just let it flip
Bitcoin. Just get that flippening out of the way.
Might as well happen.
Yeah, Michael Saylor
starts buying fartcoin and Bitcoin
only. The SPX one
annoyed me because now that Murad still gets
to fucking say stuff.
A 15% bump when it's down
80% doesn't really mean much
to me. Okay.
Fair.
It's like you're already down 90%.
What is the current market cap of SPX?
Oh, I don't know.
I don't care.
I mean, it's got to be off by 95%.
90%.
Yeah, I think so.
I think versus the LC in days.
Versus the giga high, you know?
Yeah, there's no way.
There's no way. I'll tell you what,
though. I'm still...
There's still loads going on.
So I'm still buoyed by
that. Like, it's not like...
It's not like FTX
did what it did, and then
it felt like for six weeks the whole world stood
still do you know what i mean like still feel like people are doing cool stuff there's still
people out there and they're still like ai is obviously like really running the timeline in
terms of development and you know new applications new platforms um and all kinds of like you know advancements going on
there and and there are still it just it feels like people are still trying to fundraise and
pull their shit together and build stuff and like and and actually ship stuff that people use like
really yeah with intention so you, all is not lost.
I do feel like the fundamentals have not changed.
They're only getting better.
Yeah.
You know, it's the shit market that's the problem.
That's what I was telling somebody.
Somebody was asking me, like, is the bull market over?
And I'm like, just fundamentally, because one, I have line of sight on some groundbreaking technology that's about to get shipped.
I think we're going to be talking about that shortly.
Yes.
So you add that in that'll change the dynamic of the industry.
You have AI had its little boost you know, come out of the blocks
moment, you know, let's call it a year ago. And, but now like people haven't stopped building. And
so the efficiency and scale and an opportunity as these AIs are coming online and are doing meaningful, you know, work for individuals. I just, with that level of efficiency,
with, with wire able to unify everything,
no one can convince me that we're not just at this lull ready for the next big
phase up. Like it just,
it's hard for me to fathom that we're at the end of a cycle before all like
the real key innovation has come online the calm before the storm yeah i completely love that
there's so many fundamentally important things getting built right now that are actually useful
yeah it does feel that way we talk about so many with so many great teams i i agree i feel the same
um before we get into that and irish reset the room ready to speak to you guys
from wire just um just a little personal development doom this is something i'm quite
excited about so i started chatting with a really good friend who is prominent i'm not going to say
who it is but he's prominent in the space everyone would know him by his pfp he's been quiet for a few months um but he's super cool guy and he
has he's a coder by trade and run in lots of development businesses and all kinds of stuff
like that um and he's been vibe coding for the last like six weeks and he's really excited about
it and i just said to him yesterday like as someone with a zero coding
background like would i struggle with vibe coding because and for those who don't know i'll just
not patronize you but i'll just say like vibe coding essentially is the ability to kind of like
work with ai to prompt the code that you want to create that will enable you to build an app or build a website or build,
you know, anything, anything that you can, that can be coded. Um, but it's kind of like working
with the AI in a manner that allows you to kind of like draw the best from it because of your
experience. And so it's people who have got like a fundamental understanding of coding and the ability to prompt an ai can then work with
that ai to create the thing that they want significantly quicker than they would have
been able to create it before and i said to him like how much would i struggle to do this if i
just started like trying to code or vibe code if If I tried to like ask an AR,
if I asked chat GPT,
can you help me create this thing?
Like how much of a learning process is going to,
that going to be for me?
And he was like,
go away for vacation.
So I go away on vacation this Wednesday and I'm away for a week.
And then when I get back,
he's like,
put in eight,
one hour blocks with me and I will sit with you and we will teach
you how to do it.
So I'm super excited.
I've got,
and he said,
while you're away,
think about the thing that you would like to learn,
like that you would like to build whilst you learn.
So I'm having a think about like what that looks like,
but I've never done any coding before and I'm really excited.
That's cool.
So you have an
idea of what you want to build you have to share it i've got several ideas like so one of the
things i would like to build well yeah i kind of want to share it but then i want to release
well well yeah okay i'll just say it but like i won't give too much detail you know like forms
you know like jot form and like google forms you know how shit they are garbage you know how
they kind of like kind of deliver the thing you need but never in a meaningful way or there's
always like one element that you wish you could do and can't do because it's just not made right
or whatever and they're all very like vanilla shit you don't get to really brand them up too
much or anything like that like i love the idea just for what i'm. You don't get to really brand them up too much or anything like that.
Like,
I love the idea just for what I'm doing.
I don't want to launch it as a business, but I love the idea of being able to like create an environment where people
could prompt like who they're kind of like,
what their vibe is.
And I don't mean vibes in five,
but like what their theme is,
their narrative is as a business or as a person,
what it is they're trying to as a business or as a person,
what it is they're trying to learn from their audience, you know, what kind of, and then like it could create a form that was more of an
experience for them to be able to like, you know,
like top of funnel marketing and all of that kind of shit that you see people
I'd like to be able to do something like that. Cause I feel like marketing is my background
before that. So like, I fundamentally understand I've always been frustrated with that as a product.
So I'd love to create something different and I don't intend to launch or anything,
but that's what I think I'm going to play around with. Like the ability for someone to come onto
a site or into an app, put in some generic questions,
answer them accordingly,
or maybe even answer them with like a bunch of dropdowns and then just
generate something that's really useful to them.
I mean,
that was my idea.
I like that.
Well,
what I heard is you said eight,
one hour,
you know,
blocks.
What I heard is potentially in one full day's work you could
learn or someone could learn how to vibe code and that's the yeah that's the efficiency that i'm
talking about like remember back in the day where uh you know the truckers were going to get
displaced and everyone was like oh they should just learn to code like it was like, oh, they should just learn to code. Like it was like, you remember that? Yeah.
Yeah.
And everyone thought that it was, you know, it had all kind of like undertones to it.
But that's where we're at.
Like, I would love to hear after your eight one hour sessions.
Like, yeah, I know you do a space. Obviously, you're going to talk about it.
But I'd love to hear your feedback on it because essentially what you're saying is like somebody could start to pivot from uh whatever they're
currently doing to potentially coding in about a day or two well this dude sent me a website
that he was building it was like a crm like a launch like a launch pad for a crm that
you would go into where you'd obviously manage customer relationships and stuff and it looked
great and he said how long do you think i've been building that and i was like well based on what
you said to me much quicker than i assumed so i don't know a week and he was like hour and a half what dude and it looked legit it was like
i will but i was like fuck and he was like so what i'm doing is and i'm not telling you who
he is and i'm not telling you this kind of stuff but um what he's doing is he's trying to create
great products that people would normally buy like off the shelf
and would maybe find frustrating and he's trying to create like a version of that that he can
having vibe coded it he then like owns some code that he's able to adapt and adjust very very
quickly and put it in front of somebody and say hey i can build this super fast and if you want
we can brand it up to your brand and we can also like take your intricacies of your business and make
sure that they're incorporated into it you don't need to buy something off the shelf this will be
ready and it'll be personalized tailored to you and he can turn that around really really quickly
so like what he's currently doing is just like building examples of things that he can then
take out as like a suite of products.
And I was like, dude, that's so clever.
And he was like, I only need to get like one or two bytes a month and then spend two hours adjusting my code to give these people, you know,
the thing that they want.
And it will pay really nicely.
So it's just super cool idea of his and,
and Ken,
like,
I love your take on it.
You're absolutely right.
If you're,
if people are nervous about what the future looks like in an AI based,
you know,
dystopia,
you know,
one of the things that's probably important to do is,
is to find someone who can just spend some time with you and
show you all of the opportunity that it kind of presents at the moment i think what's interesting
is like can you can you prompt an ai like chat gpt or you know pick can you prompt it to do the
same thing as what this guy's about to do for you and that would be the
dream i would love nothing more than to have a i'm gonna just say it in like like primitive terms
because i don't know how to how to articulate it but i would love to have on my laptop or about my person on my phone or
whatever,
like an AI assistant where I would be able to have the same conversation as I
had with him yesterday.
And it could just show me and not,
and maybe even if I were lazy,
it could do it for me,
but I have a,
an internal yearning to actually learn how this shit works at the moment while we can so i that
would be amazing though like like truly for ai agents to get to a point where they can teach
that way and and give you like fundamental understandings of the things that they're
able to do or the things that you always wanted to do and it was like you know go to college for three years to learn how um that sounds really exciting to me
wild right i mean just the fact that this could be done this quickly and efficiently
um did you see the shopify i think it was the shopify email leak that the ceo actually put out
as well talking talking basically um i'll see if i can find it here basically he said that everybody
on everybody in the entire company needs to be learning uh ai and spending time on it um
here it is totally i just throw the lo-fi beats on and live code with my teenage kids
nice really are you doing that oh yeah we're doing it almost
every night now they love it really yeah what kind of stuff are you making if you don't mind
we're building an ai agent for social coordination just like a meta crm cross personal and professional
really super simple yeah it's i mean it's easy to do these days but are you because yeah sorry
yeah so the guy that i was speaking to that's going to help me,
he said one of the things that's been really helpful for him,
because he kind of has an underlying understanding of code,
is that he's able to prompt,
and he's able to immediately understand
if the result isn't what he had intended.
Yeah.
So like, but he's also
he's also able to if he were briefing a coder like a an employee who was coding something for him
he has a a career's worth of experience in terms of knowing how to brief and so those those two
things fundamentally have made this so much quicker for him.
He said, so for you,
what I've just done in one and a half hours,
it might take you a week,
but that's significantly quicker
than the six months it would have taken you beforehand.
The problem is with Cursor and Windsurf and all them,
when they're wrong, they're very wrong.
They make very bad architectural
decisions that cost you hours and hours and hours and hours yeah and that's what he said and he can
spot them straight away so yeah it's interesting yeah and then this is rick one other thing hey
rick you mentioned about hey i wish i could do this like i i do it with cloud and chat gpt all
the time like i a year ago i wrote a web app basically i didn't know how
to code i mean i did a little bit but i basically talked it all the way through and tested it and
then when there was a problem i'd go back to it and start a new chat acting like i hadn't talked
to it so you can do that i mean even without cursor or any of the others today you can go
into those and just start thinking around and say hey here's what i want to build start me down the
process and teach me and it can it can do all that very easily without having you know you can go to
that next level stuff like well yeah but you can just sit down with claude or chat gpt today
and you can in the end have a finished product yeah it's nuts i think there's a there's a confidence thing with that.
So, like, I'm in my early 40s, and I've never done coding before in my life.
And I feel like – this is going to make me sound like a dick,
so I don't mean to.
I feel like I feel very confident that I could.
There's nothing about any of it.
Like, I've played with website website builders and i've fucking played with
crs code and all of that kind of i've played with stuff forever as long as the fucking internet has
been a thing like i've been present and doing stuff so like i don't it doesn't intimidate me
but i've always the way i learn is i've always needed somebody to like show me once and show me in a manner that would allow
me to like pick it apart and be like right so like remind me like how did you do that and where do you
do that and like where where are you saving this and where how do you set that thing up and i
remember what it was like oh my god i needed to figure out how to fucking put a wordpress on a
server and i found that bit tougher understanding the kind of like
operational element of it than i did building out like a site using it because you can then
just youtube stuff and figure stuff out but so like once i feel like the eight hours that this
guy's affording me are just my opportunity to kind of like say whoa go back a second like i didn't get that can you can you
cover that again a minute and that kind of stuff and i don't know like do you feel like and this
is at you rick or anyone who wants to interject do you feel like ai at the moment has the capacity
to kind of like educate a person who needs that kind of uh interaction yeah and that's what i did right i'd get stuck
on something i'd be like okay i need you to show me how to do this i have no idea how to do this
and then i go back and be like wait go back like literally like you you saying i would ask this
person this was exactly kind of what process i went through with the large language model that's
wild i think you can do i think you do a lot of that and it can explain the why to you
if you ask it.
And then to Will's point,
you just kind of got to look
for hallucinations a little bit.
And that's the problem.
You do have to have a basic understanding
of why are we using a relational database
versus a NoSQL database?
Are we going to deploy on AWS or Azure or GCP?
Why does that matter?
Right?
If you, if you ask the LLM to train you,
it's going to give you a 401 level course
or there's too much architecturally to learn.
Well, that's why the vibe coding is best
in the hands of a senior software engineer.
It can take a 10Xer and make that person a 100Xer.
And that's what we're seeing
across my portfolio companies. I'm an investor and, and a lot of the gains, uh, in productivity,
a lot of the savings on the P and L's are, um, are, are, are when these things are in the hands
of, you know, at least medium level, but definitely senior level software engineers.
Nice. I love it, man. Sorry sorry sorry to go off on one there no that
was good that was that was a fun rabbit hole i didn't know you were going down there i've been
looking at it too but well i'm i'm i'm interested i'm curious i'm a curious soul there's a um
strawberry dot wtf he's like an og in the space he just put out a vibe coding platform called Shaman.
And I've been talking with him a bit.
I want to get them on.
I want to get him on like next week or the week after.
Yeah.
Send me a link to it, dude.
I will.
The Alpha is all about the bridge between the replets of the world and then Cursor Windsurf, right?
Once people can jump from replet to cursor and and get education around
that i think that's that's going to be the major game changer love that um yeah really interesting
stuff man um okay right so quickly before we before we get into it i know we're 34 minutes
into the show sorry are you guys got a hard stop on the hour guys? Are you okay to hang around for a little bit longer?
I'm good.
Okay,
cool.
uh, the other thing I was just going to say that was interesting was doom.
I just saw the,
what's it called?
The trailer for that movie.
the Wes Anderson movie.
Oh my God.
I can't wait.
right.
I've kind of stopped listening to Rogan because he's gone rogue, in my opinion.
He's just a bit too fucking conspiracy.
It's just gone a bit nuts for me.
But he did interview Bill Murray the other day.
I listened to that.
Yeah, it was really good.
I couldn't not listen to it.
And Bill Murray was talking about that movie.
He was like, I'm in a couple of films coming up,
and there's one that is going to be
it's going to really blow people's socks off
and yeah that does look good
I'm a huge Wes Anderson fan so like
I didn't even realize that was coming out
I completely
I only knew because of that
I guess I must have been
skipped over that part because I just wasn't listening
because I was in traffic
but yeah that's
i mean he's such a talented insane visionary um right and you know just every time the cast is
just like so crazy and i love that i love that this one is like it's all benicio you know yeah
so it should be fun it should be fun it will will be amazing. Okay. Did you watch the Tron trailer?
Dude, the new Tron coming out in October.
It looks insane.
I'll have a look.
I'll have a look.
I do love it when good movies come out.
Right, everyone.
Let's reset a little bit.
If you are here because of Reach, hold fire.
I'll let you know the password at the end of
the show if you want to be in with a shot of winning 100 bucks worth of klyzer please make
sure that you are following everyone who's up on stage as a speaker and then go like uh repost
and comment on the space itself be very grateful let's get a few more people in here where we up to we were online i don't know like nearly okay that's not bad um so uh okay right someone's sending loads of emojis
to me stop emojiing me i'm trying to read where we're up to 167 people okay um right so today
you've already heard both of them speak a little bit already, but we are very excited to welcome Ken DeCross.
I hope I've pronounced that right, Ken. And Will Little, who are respectively CEO and COO at The Wire Network.
Ken has been a blockchain pioneer since 2013. I did a bit of research earlier, Ken.
Leading Wire Network to develop the first blockchain purpose built for
the ai agent economy you will have all heard me say that lots already focusing on seamless
interoperability eliminating unnecessary gas fees whilst will brings extensive experience
in operations and strategic initiatives oh yeah um and they're both obviously playing a huge part in uh the wire network's
growth partnerships and together they are the forefront of integrating ai blockchain tech and
revolutionizing decentralized transactions fucking how i write a good intro um welcome to will and
ken great to have you here let's talk a little bit more about WIRE Network and what it's up to.
Love it. Thanks for having us.
You're very, very welcome. How are you both, first of all? Are you good?
Good. Oh, yeah, great.
Excellent. I'm going to, Ken, before we get into, we've got like a bunch of questions and we'll rattle through them and obviously probably go down other rabbit holes. But before we,
before we do,
there's no doubt will be some people here who have either not listened
before or just not paid enough attention.
Why a network like in your own words,
just give us an elevator pitch and rundown.
Yeah,
for sure.
you know,
I've been in this space for a long time as you as you mentioned
so and i've participated like i eat this industry's dog food so i play around in d5 and nfts
trading like you name it so i understand the capabilities and then uh in, you know, I realized, well, I saw that all these chains were accumulating
millions of users and billions of dollars in assets and liquidity.
And they're all fragmented and everybody wanted to solve the problem.
But they were taking shortcuts and and coming to a solution so bridging was you know an early
interoperability solution and uh but it has its issues obviously that we saw you know from 2020
on which is they can get hacked uh for billions of dollars and so if we're going to be you know
the future of finance like we've all set out to to, then you can't have those issues.
You have to have a truly decentralized, trustless, unified layer,
just like the world stock market, where you have, you know,
exchanges all over the world and you can buy and sell whatever asset you want,
no matter where it lives on whatever exchange.
And we needed to do that for blockchain.
And so we set out, you know, 2020, five years later, we're here.
And we're about to release a universal transaction layer that unites all blockchain, all users,
all liquidity, and gets us to that promise of being the financial system that the world
can operate on.
I love that.
Okay, let's see.
Wire Network is positioned as the first blockchain purpose built for the AI agent economy.
Remind us of the specific challenges in the AI agent landscape that Wire Network is addressing.
For sure. So, you know, the way that you have agents is you need the most highly performant
agent that's going to make you the most amount of money that's going to save you, you know,
the most amount of fees. And so wires coming from the blockchain side of what decentralized AI
Wires coming from the blockchain side of what decentralized AI is and requires.
So you need a universal identity across all these chains.
You're going to need a wallet that is able to handle every type of currency that you want to interact with. And then you need a transaction layer, like a Visa network style layer
that lets you transact any asset however you want to.
And so if you do those three things
and then you add in really fast,
really cheap and really secure,
those six things are the requirements
that a highly performant on-chain agent is going
to need. And so from the AI future that we all see, wire is the financial rails that building
agents or dApps or other things, they're all going to be running on wire because that's going to be
the most efficient way to do something. You don't know if your agent's going to do a thousand
transactions a day or five so you need really cheap really fast really secure and yeah wire
is providing that and again just moving this industry forward i I love that. It's important. It's important what you guys are doing.
You have mentioned your universal transaction layer. You mentioned it there in your intro.
I'd like to delve into that a little bit more if we can. It promises a bit of research earlier,
seamless gas fee transactions across all blockchains. So very
quickly, how does Wired Network achieve interoperability without relying on traditional
bridges or oracles or whatever you want to call it? Like what is the secret source to
what Wired Network is doing when it comes to UTL?
Yeah, so we decided to build a whole new framework that doesn't rely on, you know, how layer zero or other bridging mechanisms work, which is, you know, you have burn and mint mechanisms, you have wrapping mechanisms, you have all these things that, that allow interoperability to happen, but they all introduce, well, technically it's called an additional consensus mechanism.
Meaning you have to add something in that's not core to, let's call it Ethereum or Solana.
Solana, you have to add another thing in that is not as secure and not as performant to allow these
assets to go from one chain to another. So we said, okay, we can't do that because that's where
the bad actors will attack and they've been successful in that. And so we keep everything on its chain of origin. So if it's an Ethereum asset,
it never leaves Ethereum. It just gets locked into a smart contract. And the same thing with
Solana, it gets locked into a smart contract on Solana. And then we abstract ownership
into our UTL, our universal transaction layer. And it's like the deed or the title of those assets.
And you can, you know, transact with every other type of asset that you want. And so you're going
to have a universal exchange on the UTL, you're going to have a universal wallets, universal
marketplaces. So everything that you currently do that's fragmented, it's all going to be pulled up
through in a unified layer that you can have, you know, more robust transactions., it's all going to be pulled up through in a unified layer that you can have,
you know, more robust transactions. So it's not going to be anything new. It's not going to be
like, you know, we didn't, we didn't change. We didn't create a new element. We just make
everything else, everything that you currently do, you know, better, faster, cheaper, more secure.
Can I throw some color commentary on that?
Please.
So yeah, so I've been angel investing in VC
for about 15 years now.
I've been in crypto for about a decade.
And even 10 years ago,
we were talking about banking the unbanked.
We were talking about the vision
of all these decentralized applications.
You know, and even in gaming and DeFi across the board,
the metaverses, et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, if you just think about gaming,
the promise that we've been talking about
for years and years and years
about your skins or your characters or your weapons,
you know, all those becoming NFTs
and then trading around different metaverses
and stuff like that.
Problem is, and I've, I've,
I've seen deal flow around this from a bunch of founders building this kind of
thing is that they get siloed when they build their DAP.
It's like, you're going to build it on Polygon.
Are you going to build it on base? Now you're going to build it on Solana.
Are you going to build it on Ethereum fricking mainnet? Oh, hell no.
You're not going to do that because gas fees. Okay.
Well, what are gas fees looking like on Solana? Boom, boom, boom.
All of a sudden you're, you're, you're doing the math and what it's going to cost you to build these types of games or applications. And it gets prohibitively expensive just in your modeling. That's why Web3, in a lot of ways, hasn't seen these types of applications because it's just too expensive. So I've seen deal flow right now with like literal real world asset companies
building internal exchanges for their coin.
And they're like, where do I build it?
It's going to cost too much transaction fees
to build the DEX for our internal exchange.
There's a bunch of groups right now
working with the new government,
with Doge, et cetera,
because they're building transparency
and efficiency into a lot of stuff. But the big question is, where are these startups? Where are these scaling companies,
even these enterprises, where are they going to build this? Wire helps solve all of those problems
because now you're actually going to be able to have a gasless transaction fee experience.
If you're a node owner, right? You get to whitelist
your smart contracts and you have this license so that based on the resources that you own in
that network, you can create that game now where you can trade around your skins and your weapons
and things like that. Or you can have an internal exchange or you can do a bunch of transactions
with like government transactions and you're not going to have those exorbitant fees because
of the way that the architecture is set up.
So I'm happy to dive into any of that, but that's just one of like a bunch of different
talking points that had me and my fellow co-investors jump in full time and help out with WIRE.
I love that.
Scalability is a critical factor for blockchain adoption.
With wire's infrastructure designed to handle high speed and rapid transactions,
what mechanisms are in place to ensure both speed and security as the network continues to scale?
I'm sorry, I cut out there for a second.
I'm sorry, I cut out there for a second. Can you repeat that?
Can you repeat that?
Oh, yeah, sure.
Scalability is a critical factor for blockchain adoption.
With wire networks infrastructure designed to handle high-speed transactions, what mechanisms are in place to ensure both speed and security as the network scales?
Yeah, well, like I said, we don't add in any additional security mechanism, which is what bridging and other interoperability does.
So our UTL pulls through the security of each network.
So if you believe that Ethereum is secure, which everybody does because they're all
transacting on it, then you're going to inherently have to believe that the assets on our UTL,
the Ethereum assets are secure.
Also would be, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
And then you do the same thing with Solana.
Like, do you believe Solana is secure?
Yes.
Okay.
Then you inherently have to believe that Solana assets are secure.
So that's what makes us so different.
It's like, there's only three ways of doing interoperability right now.
Number one is centralization, like binance or these other
centralized exchanges they they do have universal functionality right you can get any coin you want
the trade-off is it's completely centralized like do you want that i don't so like that's that's
that's not something that i want to do and And then everybody else, like every, it doesn't matter, you know, I'm sure everyone in their
head right now can think about, you know, tens, if not hundreds of names of companies
that claim to do interoperability in the space.
And I say claim to do interoperability.
It's not that they don't.
It's just that if you ask them, do you add an additional consensus mechanism? Do you add in
anything that's centralized in your tech stack that could potentially be vulnerable? And all
of them will have to say yes. They put it in different places, but there's always that point in there that's the attack vector. Wire is the only
interoperability solution that doesn't add that attack vector, that additional consensus mechanism
in. And that's very important. I was just on a PR call today. They're like, what makes you
different? And I'm like, well, in the traditional financial system, if a bank gets hacked or an exchange or whatever,
there's this thing called FDIC. It's insurance, right? And it's backed by the government and
other entities. And if something happens, the government just goes, okay, we're going to print
money and we're going to make you whole, or we're going to take it from this insurance policy and we're going to make a whole blockchain does not have that.
So you have to like security is of utmost importance because there's no
backstop. Like there's no, there's no pillow for you to fall back on.
And so that's why you have to build things in the proper way.
you have to build things in the proper way because we're trying to not put the,
the onus, the, you know, the risk on the user. Cause that's what, you know,
bridging and everybody else does. It's like, okay, we built this system. It's,
you know, here's, here's the centralization point.
Here's where it could possibly get hacked.
We're just letting you know ahead of time because if if this bridge gets hacked it's your money
like so now now you handle the risk and and our premise is like let's just take the risk like
let's do the extra work and let's take the risk out of the equation and that's what wire utl has
done it's so useful like that that context is really uh something that we can keep talking
about here during uh um you know our shows which you guys have been so gracious in in partnering
with us and and supporting us so that's a it's a great one thank you for that um okay doom and i
are apes i see will also rocking an ape. Impact ape. Great to see it.
Love that.
You know, the partnership to power Ape Chain garnered significant attention for Wire Network.
Can you share a little bit of insight into like how your technology is integrating with Ape Chain
and the kind of anticipated impact on that ecosystem, that economy there?
Like what's going on there as much or as little as you're allowed to tell us?
Yeah, I can do things that are like actually in the works
and I can give you a couple of things that are more theoretical.
But obviously it's going to be a long-term relationship with them.
They have a lot of IP and ideas
and they're pushing the industry forward
in their realm.
And we're behind them, you know,
as a supercharger to make sure
that they can accomplish their goals.
And so an easy one is, you know,
all of you apes got an airdrop
of ApeCoin back in the day.
And, uh, so Ape, ApeCoin is on, um, it's on Ethereum and it's on ApeChain, right?
And so everyone who wanted to take their coin from one Ethereum mainnet over to Ape or on ApeChain or ApeChain back over to Ethereum, you had to use a bridge.
And the bridge is, you know, it's costly, it's time-consuming.
There's obviously security vulnerabilities
that I've just identified earlier.
And so part of why are UTL TL like what it's going to do is,
it's going to, you know, take all those things up a level where you don't have to, you know,
pay the high, the high toll of a bridge, you don't have to risk your assets. And,
risk your assets. And, you know, you could use any Ethereum asset and or a chain asset to buy,
sell, trade, you know, NFTs or currencies or whatever else is happening on those chains.
It just makes it better. So that'll be one of the first things that we do, just as a proof of
concept, just because if, you know, it's like A-B testing, like if you show people how to do it, if everyone's done A, and now you show them B, like they understand the significance of it.
So for the Ape community, like that'll be a big win for us and them to understand.
and but also it's like uh yuga has a lot of um you know they have their own ip and nfts you know
ape chain itself has nfts and uh it's like well if there's going to be a universal nft or i won't
even call it nft marketplace if it's a universal digital asset marketplace, because there'll be real
world assets, there'll be all these types of things.
But, you know, it, it's going to allow Yuga to push the industry forward, in my opinion,
because like, it's right now, you know, there's, there's the whole like, oh, should there be royalties on NFT, you know, purchases and sales? Like, should there not be
like, if it is, what should it be? It's like, I, and I told you, I'm like, you guys should
set the standard of what you think that should be. Because what it has been is just this, you know,
more than likely a 5% royalty. You know, it's like, who created that mechanism? It was just
some digital artist, you know, back in, you know, eight years ago, or whenever it was,
it was like, ah, you know, 5% sounds about good. It's like, well, is that the right number?
What if it's, what if, should it be dynamic? Like, what happens if, if you bought your ape for
one ETH, and there's a bull market and you sell it for
a hundred, like what should your royalty be?
That goes back to, you know, Yuga, or if you bought your eight at the top for
a hundred and you, and you sell it for 75 ETH because you know,
you just hit the top.
Like what should the royalty structure for that be?
Should it be the same?
Should it be different?
You know, like, and so that's what I challenge you guys.
Like in our UTL, you get to, you know, impose different rule sets than, than what is happening
on, you know, Ethereum mainnet or Ape chain.
So it's like those types of things are going to be looked at. Or the other example I give,
and I don't even, I don't know if I've ever said this on like outside of, in a public sphere,
but I'll say it now. Like we can, I pitched them that you can resurrect apes that have been in
punks that have been sent to a burn address.
So if everyone remembers OpenSea, it was a few years ago, but people were buying, you know,
NFTs. A lot of them were actually apes and punks and their seaport contract had a bug in it.
And even though you purchased the ape, it sent it to a burn address that you could never recover.
And that was like a thing.
I remember that.
Yeah, that was crazy.
And it's like, and so what I told, you know, the guys at Yuga, I'm like, you can, like,
it'll never, you can never unburn that NFT on the main chain, right?
But in our, in our UTL, it, because we deal with authority, like who has authority of an asset?
And we can show who has authority on chain of that asset that got burnt.
So we could essentially resurrect in the universal marketplace in the UTL, we could resurrect that ape and give it back to its proper owner
and uh it would it could only live up there like in the ethereal realm of the utl sounds like
sounds like quantum physics like superposition it's like the d yeah and it's like yeah it's the
d and so it's like what what is that like this ape exists at two different places at the same time.
It's both in the burn address and over here.
And that's what makes sense to me when I was doing my own tech diligence on wire.
It's like, how does the stool consensus work, right?
If wire were to all of a sudden go down, how does it actually technically work?
It's because that asset doesn't actually leave.
And what gets traded around wire is L1, which is an eos fork with a right bunch of whole bunch
of it's an eos fork yeah really it's got a whole bunch of souped up stuff to it which you can read
in the white paper it it you're just trading around this deed and then so whenever you want
to unlock the asset on the native chain you can do that at any time. And it's a pretty cool way that they do with batch operators in the architecture to pull
that off.
So let me ask you a question.
So if it's in the, because you were talking about having authority over the asset, but
if it's at the burn address, doesn't the burn address have authority at that point?
So this is the beautiful part about the way that the the wire name service works
and and and the way that it's it's called upap the universal polymorphic address protocol okay
it's able to extract an address and know what the address is across any chain based on just
the way the cryptography works so because of that we can say yeah this is the person on this you know if it's
eth mainnet that actually writes this deed to the apes that were burned or the punks that were
burned so there's a way to tie it together to tie it together exactly so can can are you going to
utilize what quit built with the ghost protocol or whatever he's calling that with the or the
shadows or whatever they are you know what i'm talking about where the asset exists like right now your ape um if your ape is
in your cold storage like i would assume it is right and you've got your main hot wallet that
it's delegated to if you look at your ape chain assets your ape is there also so it's delegated to, if you look at your Ape chain assets, your Ape is there also.
So it's like a mirrored asset.
And yeah, Yuga is going to,
there's when, you know, we're about to go live
with our mainnet, right?
And then there's going to be a whole bunch of features
and a bunch of stuff coming in the roadmap
that I'll let Ken talk about.
But Yuga is going to have a bunch of their assets
all in the universal transaction layer
right out of the gate.
That's sick.
That's part of the beauty of getting it early with wire.
Yeah.
It's like your chain's asset or your network's asset or even your DAB's assets are going to be there in the UTL so that people, when they're bringing their Bitcoin or Solana or their meme coin on Solana or whatever ERC20 in anywhere in the EVM ecosystem, you're going to be able to instantly transact
and boom, pick up a bunch of those Yuga assets
without worrying about all this clunky bridging
and stuff like that.
So it's a pretty cool value problem.
That's cool.
That's cool.
Also, shout out to anyone that knows EOS
because that's like some 2017 OG shit right there.
So I had no idea that this was built on that.
I haven't heard anybody talk about EOS in a long time.
I was deep in that one, dude.
I had a bunch of EOS back in the day.
It was actually amazing.
At least three of the chains that he put up.
Well, the real thing they did that was smart
was they put all that money into Bitcoin.
They're sitting on...
Didn't they raise $4 billion in the ICO?
Something like that.
It was insane.
And then didn't they buy $3 billion in Bitcoin ICO? Something like that. It was insane. And then didn't they buy like $3 billion in Bitcoin?
Yeah, I wonder what happened to that.
At 2017 prices?
I think they're still sitting on it.
Good for them.
The EOS Foundation is insane.
They're rich as hell.
Okay, let's talk about nodes for a few.
Because I know that there needs to be some node conversation here.
Because you guys are doing a lot of things
and it all surrounds nodes.
Wire Network offers various node tiers,
T1, T2, T3, and each have a distinct role
and staging requirements.
Can you break down and explain the functionalities
and availability of nodes
and why they're important to the whole ecosystem
that you guys are pioneering?
You want to fire away, Ken?
I can color commentary on top of it.
Or I'm happy to take it.
Go ahead.
Go for it.
Yeah.
So basically think of nodes.
And this is, nodes mean a lot of different things, a lot of different ecosystems.
Part of the beauty of how when they forked EOS and they switched up the difference
between a node operator and a node owner. So I'll stay high level for a moment. You basically get
to own resources in the network. It'd be like equivalent of owning a piece of AWS. Like literally
you own a chunk of AWS and the people who use those resources essentially have to rent those resources from you.
Or if you're building a dApp or you're a network that has a bunch of uses for it, you get to access those resources and use it.
So wherever you need blockchain transactions across any type of application site, owning a node gives you the privilege through a very sophisticated resource allocation mechanism.
It gives you the ability to run those transactions.
Like I said earlier, you're going to put your allow list.
You're going to put your smart contracts on the special license agreement.
So there's no transaction fee, no gas fee.
And you can just use the chunk of the network to run your applications.
So a node basically allows you to own a piece of that.
And then obviously, like any other network, it allows you to participate in various different
governance mechanisms, et cetera, et cetera, that you can read up on the white paper.
And so a tier two and a tier three just give you different levels of resource applications. So they can you can use it, you know, as you build your and
run your applications.
And what that's what about the availability of them as well and the price? Because I'm
assuming these are for sale. I'll let you take that one.
You were saying what's the price difference?
Well, yeah.
What's the availability and the price?
Because you've got, obviously, there's three different levels, and each of them have varied layers of importance.
Yeah.
So the top level, which is what Yuga and Abe Chain bought, they bought one of the top tier assets. Those were, um, the initial price was 750,000 each. There's only 21 of those. And those are all,
those are all off the table. They've all been, you know, uh, they all found homes, uh, the tier,
the tier two, or what a lot of people have been, uh, purchasing lately. And so those are still, and just to give you an idea,
like the tier one is 400 TPS transactions per second.
Wait, how many?
400.
Damn.
Yeah.
So that's like in comparison,
like what would you compare that to?
I'm leading you because I already know the answer,
but I think it's important to bring this in. But what would you compare that to i'm leading you because i already know the answer but i think it's important to bring this in but what um what would you compare that to in terms of like
regular transactions like with visa or mastercard or something because that's a lot of transactions
per second it is and it's actually more than than you know the visa network but the way i look at it is it's one tier one node is over
28 ethereum networks because yeah ethereum only has 14 tps so each one of there's 21 of these
and each one of them is over 28 ethereum networks so each one can do 400 transactions a second exactly which is basically more than visa does at christmas
that's wild so in the tier twos which are considerably less so those that those top
tiers were three-fourths of a million dollars the tier twos um they were going for 100k
and they're each there's 84 of those.
And those are each 15 TPS.
So there's still one more TPS than the entire Ethereum network each.
So we're,
we're talking huge amounts of capacity there.
And we're,
and we're also talking about universal TPS.
Like,
you know,
you're not just beholden to the assets of Ethereum.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's OmniChain essentially, right?
Uh-huh.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so, and then the last one, the last tier is our tier threes.
And so if you take, if you take away the tier ones and tier twos, that's about 96% of the TPS of our network.
So the tier threes are, you know, the 4% of the network that's left of the TPS.
So which is about 400 TPS, a thousand of those nodes, those tier threes share 400 TPS.
So it's like a pool of resource for, for those software.
And those ones go for, uh, they were going for 10,000 each.
Um, so great for like small business startups, uh, a power user, you know,
someone who's going to be using AI, uh, again, because, you know,
you know, if you're doing five transactions a day, you know, and you, and you prompt your AI,
if you're doing five transactions a day, you know, and you,
it may do 100 or 200 or a thousand transactions per day, just because it can do it more efficiently.
And it has, you know, there's, there's no friction there. Uh, so those tier threes are great for,
for anyone who's, you know, who, who wants, who's, who's going to use AI or think they're
going to use AI in the future. Like those are, that's what should be powering them.
That's kind of an insane amount of transactions for a second.
I love it.
And no one else is anywhere near that, right?
In the whole ecosystem.
And it scales.
So, you know, our entire network is 10,000 TPS.
you know, our entire network is 10,000 TPS.
And unlike the other blockchains that were created,
like ours is able to scale.
So we're going to have what we call network expansion.
So once our network gets filled up, you know,
once you cap it and the price goes up.
Yeah.
Like the price goes up because everyone's saturating the 14 TPS.
We don't have that problem
like when if we hit close to 10 000 tps we just uh increase the amount of tps so you can basically
add more resources and go from like 10 000 to 12 5 or something no i mean it'll be exponential so
it'll probably be from 10 000 to you know 40 or 50,000. Oh, wow. The upgrade. Yeah. Shit.
Will there be more nodes at that point available, or it's just going to build off of the original
set?
That's a whole other discussion, but we never change the quantity of the nodes.
They're just different generations.
Got it.
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
If you own the first generation, you get
rights of first refusal on the next generation of the same tier. Cool. Yeah. Oh, I like that.
Smart. Really interesting. But yeah, for the technical people in the audience, it's important
to understand this distinction between the node owner and the node operator. And that actually
was done because of a lot of the shortcomings we saw
early in the EOS community. So this is this is this appointed proof of stake that you'll
you can read about in the white paper. It means a lot because now that the node owners
have different incentives than the people who are running the validators, right? The
validators are the node operators and anybody can jump in and start running a validator
and, you know, this whole reputation building thing
like a lot of other networks do.
Love it.
Thank you for breaking that down.
It's been one of those ones as well
I wanted to get to the bottom of.
I kind of wish.
Don't worry about it.
I'll speak to Doom on the side about it.
Right, looking ahead
key milestones last question for this one um why a network aims to achieve in the next 12 months
like a whole myriad of things i'm certain of it how do you foresee like the developments
in the broader blockchain and ai ecosystems what is it that you are intending to deliver
in the next 12 months, 18 months?
What does the world look like
getting towards the end of the decade
if Wired Network has done everything
that it set out to do?
It's really going to look not too dissimilar
from the traditional markets.
Like that's the goal, right?
Like the traditional markets have technology that no one or most people here and definitely
not the general public.
Like they have no idea what, what architecture and the stock markets are running on or what
the banks are running on or what, you know, Venmo, PayPal, Cash App.
No one understands.
No one even really cares about what apps on the Apple iOS store.
Like no one cares what infrastructure their games are running on.
Like they just do what they need to do.
It shouldn't be anything different than that,
except for the, you know know it needs to be decentralized and it needs to
have these unique properties so that you know your data can't be stolen or uh you know or someone
can't pause a transaction uh that you're doing because they don't like you like the you know
the ethos of of what's happened of what why bitcoin is even
created in the first place and so like that's if you the what i'm shooting for is just uh
everyone's just going to understand that this is the better system uh you know because it'll
you'll be able to have you know more yield like it'll, you'll be able to have, you know, more yield.
Like there'll be benefits to being in this system
without having to care about the architecture.
Everyone, like everyone should just be, you know,
should just assume that what they're using
is decentralized trustless, you know,
keeps their identity and private things encrypted, and
gives them a better experience. And I think that we're going to get there where, you know,
and you can see that even in a traditional system, like, if you everyone's talking about the stock
market, bringing their equities over and tokenizing them, right, or real world,
fractionalizing, you know, skys skyscraper in Manhattan. Like,
we're not having, we're not going over. This is, you know, Jamie Rogozinski from Wall Street Bets.
He and I have a lot of conversations. And he's like, yeah, before it was, I thought that the,
that the crypto market or the blockchain industry was going to, you know, move over and try,
you know, kowtow to the traditional markets.
But now we've seen that the traditional markets are going to like come over and
bend the knee over to us. So we just have to make that system, you know,
seamless and improved and we're going to win that battle.
Because a lot of the motivation for me and why I've jumped on here for Impact
Stream with Impact Ape, Impact Stream is the NGO that Impact Ape is going to be helping out, is that I do NGO work in West Africa.
And we move money via crypto right now into the local CFA currency through their equivalent of Venmo application called T-Money.
And that money is used to fund public infrastructure,
clean water wells, and things like that. Those entrepreneurs on the ground in West Africa
have to still pay a bunch of transaction fees with their local T-Money application
that are exorbitantly high. I mean, you'd never be able to get away with that in a Western country.
And so I'd love a world where now a universal wallet, where the entrepreneurs in these emerging markets can see a number on a screen that's equivalent to their local T-Money application or whatever they use.
And know that that equates to real money that they could go to a bank and pull out paper currency if they wanted to.
And then be able to transact with the global economy,
independent of whether it's on base or Solana or Avalanche or any EVM or whatever.
That matters, right?
We've been talking forever about banking the unbanked
and about how this can bring the next two to three billion users onto the internet.
And really, a universal transaction layer does allow us to fulfill the promise of
Web3, right? In the same way that a relational database brought in the era of Web2, blockchains
bring in the era of Web3, but when it's all fractured, it creates a terrible user experience
and a terrible developer experience. I mean, as a developer, I hate building in Web3. It's terrible.
But to be able to build in C++ now that could compile down to WebAssembly,
so anything that compiles down to WebAssembly can run these smart contracts, trading deeds
to assets that are stored on native chains on any chain. I mean, that's a game changer. That will
allow us to actually bring these next two to three billion people into the financial economy to be
financial economy to be able to transact around the world. And that gets me pretty fired up.
able to transact around the world. And that gets me pretty fired up.
Love it. This is, uh, that's a really good point. And, uh, yeah, gets me quite fired up also. Um,
I don't know if there were any kind of like final thoughts that you just wanted to impart,
like that's the end of our questions. And before we close it down, like always nice to give our
guests the opportunity to close, I guess how people can get involved or you know where they should go if they want to
learn a bit more about this is a good place to start but if there's anything else um can you
want to touch on then uh this is a good moment yeah it's just it's all it's all coming so uh
coming. So just let everyone know we're going to do a 90 day launch. Let's say June 1,
and which will lead up to the full launch in TGE in early September. And everyone will be able to
participate. So we didn't do there was no pre pre-sale for, for wire. Like there was no,
you know, VC deals like, you know, there, this is as, you know, everyone, buddy talks about a
fair launch. And then that's the definition of a fair launch. This is one of the fairest launches
that'll happen in the industry. And we did it on purpose because we knew the ramifications of just how big this would be and to give everybody an opportunity to get in,
um, you know, for this core infrastructure that I believe the entire industry is going to be using
by the end of the year. Uh, I thought that that was, you know, me and my, my team thought it was
the right thing to, to do for everybody. So
more details about that will be coming out. And then other products that we're building
internally as great proof of concepts, because once you solve interoperability properly,
new features can come out and features for, like I said, a universal exchange,
a universal marketplace, a universal wallet, universal AI agents.
So we're doing those proof of concepts.
So we'll be rolling out each one of those products to showcase, you know,
how to, how to wield, you know, universal interoperability properly.
So it's going to be, it's going to be a fun time here, the second half of this year. And, you know, universal interoperability properly. So it's going to be a fun time here, the second half of this year.
And, you know, hopefully that's timed up with, you know,
the second leg of this bull market.
Here's hoping.
Yeah, go for it, Will, sorry.
Yeah, no, and I would just add that, like, you know,
we talked earlier about a value proposition for networks like ApeChain, right,
where you're going to get your assets in front of a ton of users that come in to this universal transaction layer.
Because networks are looking for TVL and volume.
Well, imagine being able to pick up users from every other blockchain on the planet.
I mean, it's pretty clear. But a point I want to make on the other side for applications is that you can now have
some safety or some assurance that when you launch your DAP on the universal transaction
layer with wire network, that doesn't matter where people have their assets around the internet,
around all these blockchains, because they're going to be able to use your app. They're not
going to have to bridge between this and go between that and go, you know, it's a terrible user experience out
there. Now you're going to get access to a ton of people that may have Bitcoin or they may have some
meme coin on Solana or, you know, they may have some NFT on the ETH mainnet or whatever. They
will be able to very easily transact with your decentralized application in a way that's just
literally never been possible before. So yeah, I just wanted to throw that in, just those two easily transact with your decentralized application in a way that's just literally
never been possible before so yeah i just wanted to throw that in just those those two value
propositions are game changing well nice one okay well look guys thank you so much for your time
today really really appreciate it we're looking forward to to watching the rollout of this. And yeah, hopefully that is all nicely in time with leg two of,
of this bull and long may it be the golden leg of the bull.
I don't know what I'm talking about here,
but yes,
that would be wonderful.
Thank you so much for coming up today and sharing all of that insight with
We really appreciate you coming up.
We really appreciate the partnership that we guys, that we've been able to work with you guys. And so, yeah really appreciate you coming up. We really appreciate the partnership that we've
been able to work with you guys.
So yeah, thank you so much.
Okay.
We appreciate you guys
too. We love
this Xspace and you guys do
a great job. Thank you. Nice one.
Really appreciate it. Thank you. Okay,
Doom, let's do some things very quickly
before we go if people
are here because of reach uh the code word very very simple today why i could have guessed that
you i are e all capitals like you're yelling it exactly wire okay pick me a row um we've got 230 so what's that divided by four loads uh 80 83 or something
um let's go let's go low we always go mid or high row two okay okay yep i've got
two okay go with it give me me between one and four. Three.
Okay.
Ashley.
Ashley.eth.
Ayo.
Ayo, Princess Ashley.
There you go.
Ashley, $100 worth of Klyza on base.
Yes.
Drop me your base EVM wallet address.
We were already following each other so that's good and
i'll send it over to yeah send it to me and i'll send it to francis from plaza our homie
love it and we'll get that to you very soon um so okay thanks to everybody for joining us today
really appreciate you coming out doom uh we're on tomorrow again yes we are i've got no idea who we're speaking to
i've completely forgotten um it's between one of two people i'm trying to nail down so
later i guess right yes oh yes yes yes oh god yeah i'm such an idiot yeah okay well people
thank you so much i'm off to go and watch Newcastle United beat Leicester.
They're 2-0 up already.
It's been going for 20 minutes, just in case any of you follow the EPL.
Otherwise, thank you so much.
Have a great evening.
Really appreciate you all.
See you all tomorrow.
Bye-bye.
Take it easy. Thank you.
