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Gains Associates: Making #Crypto Accessible 🎙
Recorded: Nov. 4, 2022 Duration: 1:09:48Space Recording
Full Transcription
No, that's why I'm going to get a text.
Hey, welcome everybody, we're going to wait for Alexander of Gaines Associates to join
us here soon. Hey Alex, welcome. Twitter's doing the buffering thing. Hey, welcome, welcome.
How are you today? Pretty good, man. Happy to have you on and it looks like we have community members
trickling on in. We can go ahead and get started because we are at the top of the hour. Good
afternoon, WhaleCoinTalk and Aquarium community. My name is Noah. I'm here today with Alexander
Raffin of Gaines Associates and I'm going to let Alex talk more about that in a bit here,
but before we do, can you give us a quick background of yourself, Alex, your career path
before you got into crypto and then how you made your way into the industry?
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's pretty funny, so many references to sea animals
and everything today. So I'm a French guy, lived in Paris for more than 25 years, studied computer
science, but I loved coding. I learned to code when I was like 15, 13, but studying it and then,
you know, doing internships was very different. You know, you're told what to do. It's more serious,
so it wasn't for me. So after I completed my studies, I actually tried to be a professional
League of Legends player and I was one, not at the very, very top, but I still played, you know,
in front of a few hundred people, had a team, a coach and so on. So it was like an experience,
um, very high pressure environments. It's like being a top athlete, but you don't use your muscles.
So pretty much you play 12 hours a day in front of the computer and you have to be very focused.
So I learned a lot about communication, teamwork and so on. I did that for a bit more than a year
and then I just discovered crypto thanks to a friend. It was kind of pretty random, um, started
investing small amounts with friends, discovered more of the space and then I saw there was some
opportunities. So, so things happened after that. That's really interesting, Alex. Uh, myself and
a couple others at Whale Coin Talk were pretty avid World of Warcraft players. So I didn't know that
you had experience with LoL and not just that played in front of hundreds of people. That's
awesome. Uh, let's, let's talk about, let's jump right in. Let's talk about Gains Associates,
the world's first decentralized VC, not to steal your thunder, but give us a high level overview of
what Gains Associates is. Yeah, for sure. So I think everyone is familiar with launchpads. So you can
see it as a launchpad, but for private sales. So that's pretty much it. Uh, we have some kind of
token that is an entry ticket to access deal flow. And so yeah, for everyone, I mean, pretty much
before the public sales, you have VCs, angel investors that get in, they take on more risk,
but they also buy the token cheaper. So it's for kind of a different kind of people. You do like
your capital for longer, but you have more upside of course. So this is a way for people who join
your VC or launchpad to get into these deals early, basically at the level that most crypto
VCs would get in. Yeah, this is something for me that's kind of still blows my mind to this day,
to be honest, is that because crypto is very new, because, um, it's still in a gray area,
because everyone, because crypto is very open. We are able to bring deals to people that can be
literally life changing. Um, when you get in a private sale, you can invest more at a lower price.
So you have much more leverage if it works out and that's how you can change your life. And I mean,
it's also kind of, I think why everyone is here in crypto, right? I mean, the answer is pretty much
like 10 X or a hundred X, if you're pretty bullish, um, everyone in crypto, like they, they,
they don't want 10% or whatever. So, um, I think the private sales allow you to do that.
And they're, they're also kind of safe in a way, because when you invest with the big boys at a
lower price, um, I mean, you're, you're protected, right? Your, your, your floor is lower. So,
so it works out pretty well. Yeah. I was going to say, you said that the, um, the earlier investors
are taking on more risk, which I, I understand why you would say something like that, but at the same
time, as you mentioned, the floor is lower. So even if the project, well, if the project does
relatively well, there is, there's no way, you know, there's not much further down that the
seed investors can go. I can see why there are pluses and minuses to that. I want to talk about
speaking of Xs, 10 Xs, a hundred Xs, a thousand Xs in your case. Um, uh, you guys, you guys got into
some notable projects quite early to name a few blocktopia, quant and avalanche avalanche.
We'll be having on next Friday. Uh, can you tell us a bit more about, did you, did, were these
projects that gains associates, the decentralized VC got into, or was this before you launched
the centralized VC? Tell us a bit about how you knew that these projects are going to be big wins,
what kind of research you do beforehand and, you know, anything else that you think would be
exciting for us to hear about? Yeah, for sure. It's a very good question. Um, just a quick note is
that we, we kind of switched the, how we, we speak about ourselves before, uh, it was like just a
pool. Um, and that's what happened like in 2018, there were hundreds of dues and then the name
changed to something more fancy, I guess. So we had some of these deals before we had a token and
before we had this kind of structure with a platform and everything. Um, but it was always a
community of investors at the end of the day that that's what we are. And so the deals, I mean,
I think the, the team is of course, like the most important, um, avalanche. I mean, there was
Amin, of course, the guy was a renowned, um, academic, of course, uh, known on Twitter, which
helps, uh, OG in crypto as well. It was with a colored coin, I believe, uh, colored Bitcoin,
something like that. Um, and, um, Quart as well. I mean, the guy, the CEO was a big, big
shot, uh, had huge connections, uh, in NGOs and so on. So the team is a big factor for
sure. And, and you can have very bright guys, but if they don't have business experience,
if they don't know how to, you know, uh, run the financials and everything, it doesn't
matter that much how bright they are. Um, and it's, it's still kind of risky. So these
guys, they had some decades of experience and, and that, that matters a lot. Um, not
to say, you know, Vitalik made it, but you know, it's a special kind. Um, then, I mean,
of course you have to look at the utility of the token. Um, there's a lot of projects as
well. We, uh, they're doing well, but the token is pretty much like they, they use the
token to fundraise and then they, they say, fuck the token. And that's, that's, that's
pretty, pretty bad feeling as an investor. So you have to, to watch out for that. You
have to ask them, you know, how they will integrate the token in the ecosystem and so
on. And, and, and by the way, just another note on that, I mean, a lot of, uh, utility
tokens are actually disguised securities when they do buybacks and burns. Um, but that, that's
actually good, uh, you know, because that's what makes the price go up. Um, and then of
course, I mean, there's a lot more factors, but the third one I would mention is the
valuation you, and, and, and that's also a reason why it's very good to invest in these
markets, even though it's, it's like the hardest, right. When you, you don't have much liquidity
and everyone's around you is scared, but the valuations are much lower because everyone's,
everyone wants funds to, to keep on moving fast and go ahead of competitors in this market.
So yeah, pretty much the team utility of the token valuation. Um, if you have these three,
you're pretty good usually. Um, so, so we do have a, you know, research team, but maybe
the last thing I would mention, which makes me very comfortable whenever we make investments
and, and especially so recently, because the community as well has learned and evolved, uh,
just as we did is that we, we have the chance the, to have literally hundreds of eyes whenever
we bring a project and they're gonna, they're gonna check everything. I mean, we have a research
team, three people these days, and they, they get on calls. I get on call afterwards when
they have screened a project. We take a look at the LinkedIn, the Twitter, the website, the
pitch deck, everything. Right. But we still, we have lots of projects to check. We only have
24 hours in a day. And so these guys, they, it's their own money and they have realized
that and we invest as well, but they, they're pretty relentless when they check things. And
so it's a very big confidence boost for everyone. When you know, you have so many people doing
due diligence. I mean, I think we would probably do, um, harder due diligence than some of the
big funds just because of that. Um, I actually have heard some projects, uh, telling me you
guys are like the FBI, you know, like, so, um, so, so it works out pretty well when you
have a good community, which is very hard to get. Uh, and sometimes the, the community
can be annoying, can be rough and everything. It's not easy every day, but, um, there is
real power in the community.
Alex, you, you highlighted quite a few components that you guys analyze and clearly you're quite
good at it. I mean, and the proof is in the pudding. You're not just all talk, your portfolio
speaks for itself. Uh, I wanted to focus and expand a bit on tokenomics. You said you guys
look very closely at tokenomics and the tokenomics model, the token economy is so important in
evaluating or rather valuing, uh, whether a company is going to, or rather when, whether
an ecosystem is going to be prosperous or not, what specifically do you look for in a tokenomics
model in a token economy, uh, for, for projects to kind of say, okay, well, this looks like it
makes sense. I can see the token utility. I can see why the model works. I can see why it's
sustainable. Give us some more insight into that, please.
Yeah, that's also a very good question. Um, there's first of all, like on the, the rough
numbers, um, you, it's good to look at the multipliers between rounds. So, you know, like
whatever you want to call them seed, strategic, private, public, or whatever. Uh, for example,
sometimes seed has like a fucking 90% discount. So, so that's quite dangerous. Um, you, you
take a look at the vesting, of course, um, it needs to be kind of like a good compromise
because of course, investors need some liquidity, but you don't want too much time. So, um, there's
that, and then you, the token needs to, needs to have something special in a way. Um, so,
I mean, it's, it's kind of a meme to be honest, like there's, there's a lot of things that
governance and everything, you're not exactly sure if it works. Um, so, so at the end of
the day, it's about the product. If the product works out, you can always use the token kind
of artificially and do a subscription and it's going to work out, right? I mean, Telegram
could, for example, um, make people pay their $5 subscription monthly with a token and they
could buy back the token and the market cap would be huge. So, so it's not so, so much
the token and how it's used. I would say actually it's like the, the financials of the tokenomics
and then how good we think the product will be. And then usually you can find a way to integrate
the token into that. Um, yeah. So when you guys started, I believe you mentioned 2018,
you guys were just, it was a, and I know exactly what you're talking about. They were kind of
unofficial pools and I'm assuming there were few people, including yourself making decisions
like, Hey, we like AVAX, we like quant, we like so-and-so project. Let's invest in this.
You've since moved over or rather transitioned to a decentralized VC. How many members are
part of that VC? How much bigger has it gotten since your early beginnings? And also how are
decisions made? Because oftentimes, uh, oftentimes I don't know if I trust the average Joe to
do their due diligence and vote on a specific project. Um, anyway, I'm going to, I'm going
to pass the mic to you and let you kind of drop some knowledge on us with respect to that.
Yeah. I mean, I, I'll share my opinion and I would actually be curious to hear us because
I don't have like a definite opinion on this. Um, so we, we grew, we have about 500 very active
investors, uh, in private chats where the deal happens. Um, we, the public community is much
larger. It's pretty much news about crypto and everything, but no deals. And, um, yeah, regarding
how the decisions are made, this is something I've, I've thought about for quite some time.
I mean, there was some hype about the DAOs at some points we, and, and decentralization
is a scale. It's not zero or one. So we're not fully decentralized. Uh, we, we don't have
a DAO per se, but we take input from the community. We do run polls and everything. And I actually
got the chance to ask CZ this question, uh, about a year ago. And so I asked him what he thought of
investment DAOs. So pretty much what we are and a few others. And he said, he kind of likes it,
but for him personally, uh, you know, in a traditional, uh, Chinese top down way of thinking,
he said it would, uh, move faster and be able to become bigger if it had a benevolent dictator
on top. So, and kind of makes sense because for me, when you think about it, I don't think people
who have their own life and they're busy with whatever their job, their personal issues,
and then they come home, they, they're fucking tired and they have, I don't know, 30 minutes,
an hour or two, maybe to look at crypto, to track their investments. And then you ask them to be
informed enough to still have the willpower to make a good decision that, that seems like a bit too
much. So, so, um, for me, yeah, I mean, it's, I think it can be dangerous actually to give too much
voting power to, to people because maybe they have the best intentions, but also what I've found
I think we might have lost Alex there. That's going to actually be bad, of course.
It has been a blessing. Can anyone, can you guys hear me? Yeah, sorry. I think you, I think either I
cut out or you cut out, but, uh, you, you, you cut off that last like 15 seconds. I couldn't hear you,
really, you kind of break it up. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I was just saying like some people also,
they, they have a short time horizon and, and, and, uh, to highlight that the, the vestings many times
people, uh, they say, you know, Hey, this is right. It's a scam. And they're forced to hold it because
they, they received maybe 10% of their tokens and then the project ends up doing well. And so the,
thanks to the vesting, they diamond handed the tokens that maybe they would have dumped. And I think it's
kind of also this mentality, lack of faith, or just, you know, wanted to flip and whatever that is
dangerous. If you gave people the, the, the right, because it's not like their company, they don't
care as much. They're part of the community. They're part of something, but they, then they might not be
here for like five years, six years, 10 years, you know, they might be with you for like a year,
leave, come back, whatever. So also like, you, you need to know how aligned they are. If you give them the
power to make decisions. So how do you used to know what you think of like DAOs and everything?
Yeah. So I certainly agree with you. I think that decentralization is a spectrum
and I personally love the hybrid, I love a hybrid approach. I'm not, I'm not too big on
super decentralized DAOs for some of the reasons that we're discussing currently, right? The average
individual from my own anecdotal experience is not going to do the due diligence that I would be happy
with and ultimately make a, an educated vote on whether or not the DAO or rather or not the VC is going
to invest in a specific project. So I think that the approach that I would like hypothetically is
you obviously can have a DAO structure, but you can have it populated with individuals that have
been vetted by, let's say in your case, yourself and maybe your inner circle who you know are seasoned
investors who you know have done due diligence. So you vet people that you want joining your group or
your doubt. And then those individuals can make weighted votes and weighted decisions based on
their experience and a number of other metrics that you guys can discuss internally.
But as far as like a massive DAO where people can just buy the gains token, for example, we're going
to, we're going to talk about the gains token here in a second, but people can just buy the gains token
and automatically have the same weight as let's say you or someone else that's simply holding the
same amount of the token. I'm not really for that. I don't think it, I don't think it works in,
I think there are certain, maybe a certain, uh, examples where you can make the argument for it,
but not the VC example when there's so much money at stake and it, it really takes so much experience
and knowledge to pick the right projects. So, I mean, with, with that said, I want to jump
into the gains tokenomics and utility, right? You guys do have a tiered system.
So please give us a breakdown of that and also follow it up with, for people listening, including
myself, people that want to get involved in your ecosystem, people that want to get involved in
some of the projects you guys pick, because you're clearly doing very good at picking good ones. I mean,
I'm sure you guys have had some massive losses like any of us, but you've, you've had some gems,
you've had some unicorns. So how can we, how can we participate and become a part of Gains
Associates decentralized VC? Yeah, absolutely. So it's pretty simple. Uh, you buy the token,
you stake it, and then on the website, you have access to deal flow. Uh, so, so that's it. And then
if you stake more, you get into higher tiers, which allow you to invest more. And for the very top tiers,
sometimes we have exclusive deals. Um, and yeah, regarding, uh, picking the projects,
there's something also that people maybe do not really understand, like the value we bring and we,
we have, uh, built up our brands and network over close to five years now. And it's not really about
knowing which projects to invest in. There's, there's lots of smart people that are able to,
to follow the thread and follow the VCs and, and see early on which projects are good.
But let's say you're like, you know, you, you have a job, you want to invest $500 or a thousand.
You're never going to be able to invest that the project. They don't have time to,
to just listen to you for 500 or 1k or whatever. So they want, they want to deal with someone who's
going to put a decently big tickets. And also they want value added because for the best projects,
you have to fight for them. Uh, usually in this, this market, maybe not, but they will be oversubscribed.
And then you have to prove you have more value than others. And that's where the five years of
building up the brand, the community, the content, and the, the, all the network,
we make lots of intros with, with various parties, other VCs, launch pads, market makers,
and everything that's the, the average Joe cannot obviously provide. And so that, that is also,
I truly believe that access, um, is much, much more important when you get into the inner circle
and then the inner inner circle, life becomes very easy. Uh, we're not like in the inner inner
circle yet, I believe, but we're, we're in a decent circle. And so it's a, it's a work in progress.
And, and that, that, that, that just changes the game. Yeah. Pretty much.
It's certainly a game changer. And as you said, Alex, most people, even in crypto,
are not going to get access to a seed, um, a seed investment to avalanche or another big ecosystem
that has a great team behind it and lots of promise. It's not even because that they're,
it's not because they're, they're an average Joe. It's more so because for the amount of $500,
it takes a lot of time and resources and to allocate to that individual. You guys are basically
streamlining this and, and creating a medium for everyday people like myself or some folks in the
audience to invest in top tier projects. And I, I really love that mission. I think it's so important.
I wanted to, you know, I wanted to shift gears here in a moment and talk about, uh,
the world runs on memes that you, you sent me a slide, the world runs on you meme. Uh, tell me a
bit more about the first social network for memes. I know that you're really excited about it. Um,
let's dive right into that. Sure. Yeah. I mean, totally different topic. This is, uh, uh, another,
so we have two projects games in this one, we pilot them with the same executive team, but different
tech teams. And so we've been in crypto for five years and pretty much every day on telegram,
Twitter, in the community, and sometimes very good times, sometimes very rough times like today.
And, and what makes crypto good to be honest is just the memes, like the gifts, the, the stickers,
everything. And that, that, that truly helps. And so there's a lot of power. I mean, so Elon Musk,
you know, bought Twitter and he has two tweets and he says pretty much like memes are who controls
the memes controls the universe. So I think we kind of know memes are very powerful, but at the same
time, I don't think we have truly realized their full potential. And, and I think like everything
is a meme kind of Bitcoin is a meme in a way. Um, and so, um, there's, I think memes can bring crypto to
the masses and, and I think we need more memes. So, uh, regarding you meme, it's a social network
for memes and, and just maybe a quick note on social networks. There's been quite a number of
projects that tried to be a decentralized social network because everyone was talking about people
getting canceled, uh, censorship, whatever. And so everyone was like, okay, there's a gap to be
filled here. And that's true. But so far all these projects, the decentralized Twitter and whatever
they, they haven't seen the lights of the day. Right. So, and I think there's a few reasons why,
but maybe one of the main ones is because these social networks tried to be too generic right from
the start. And with memes, we can actually have a very tight engaged community that relates and that,
that, you know, that speaks the same language. And I think when you have this core community,
then you can expand maybe later to something more generic and whatnot. So it could be something very
cool for the, for the world, uh, to have a pretty much like Instagram, but for memes. Uh, so, so this
is something we're working on and, uh, we, we do run meme contests with crypto projects and everything.
Uh, it's going to be gamified. Like you'll have quests on there. So, um, it's, uh,
it's a cool website to, to check out. If you, you know, you spend five minutes looking at memes,
uh, check it out. Youmeme.com
Right on. Just so, I mean, just how Facebook started with people in colleges or Instagram started
with just pictures, you guys are starting with just memes and you're moving forward. I like the roadmap.
You're using a different planet for each phase of the roadmap. How far into the roadmap are you guys currently?
So we're pretty early. Uh, we, we basically, it's a desktop app. It's not a native mobile app. You can
use it. It's responsive. You can use it on your phone, but it doesn't have the extended features.
That's a native app like Instagram would have. And, uh, pretty much we, we have very, very good
reception. Whenever you, you tell a project in crypto about it, they're like, let's go. So
collections top 15 that wants to white label our tech to work with us. And, and, and last week I was
literally discovering a new competitor every day. So I, and you know, I think it might be very good
because maybe we need a new narrative in crypto for the next bull run. Uh, we can reuse old narratives.
I mean, there's ones coming in like ZK and whatnot, but maybe social networks, maybe memes again with
Elon and whatever, uh, could be a great narrative for us to, to pump, uh, at some point in the future.
Competition drives innovation. So if you have competitors, I think it's silver lining and
could be a great thing. I wanted to circle back to some of the, some of the other work you guys do,
Alex, you do shorts on projects, personalities and events and crypto. Can you give us some insight
into what exactly, or rather who exactly you guys typically are interviewing and, you know, doing
shorts on? Yeah. So usually our portfolio companies, but not all the time, uh, shorts are amazing. You
know, they're like 30 seconds to a minute. So quick, you, you can learn a lot about a project,
get your like daily crypto dose on, on Instagram or something. And then you have the longer format
interviews, you know, not as long as Lex Friedman hours and so on. So it's like 15 minutes, 20,
30 sometimes. And so you get to know about a project. Um, this was, there was blockchain brads back in
the days, uh, a YouTuber I really liked, and he was doing these kinds of like one hour interviews
that pretty much no one was doing, but they were very nice. He, he got into a lot of details about
the projects. And so that's one of the things, uh, we, we, we try to do as well. But by the way,
I would also be like a super curious to, to hear more about what you guys do. I think it would be like
extremely interesting. Yeah, of course we can, we can talk a bit about whale coin talk and no pun
intended. And Alex, one of the few times I get this, I get the broadcast turned around on me
where the guest becomes the interviewer, happy to talk about whale coin talk and the things that
we're doing. The elevator pitch is that whale coin talk is an educational web three web, excuse me,
an educational web three media hub. And we offer a wide array of services and educational content,
but our bread and butter, I believe, or at least from my experience are broadcasts, broadcasts like
this, talking to people like you, bringing on blockchain solutions onto our podium to showcase
what they're building to a community of investors, enthusiasts, and builders. Um, it's really a way,
I think these Twitter spaces are really important. Um, and they're a way for like-minded. I mean,
this wasn't around in, in 2018, right? Uh, during the bear market, you had these
partition silos of like-minded individuals where we kind of stayed in our own communities,
right? There wasn't Twitter spaces to bring everyone together. Um, and, and this time around,
we have this amazing tool and it's letting us, um, it's such an interconnected social web and it's
letting you and me right now have a conversation and those that follow us come in and tap into each
other's communities. So, you know, whale coin talk is first and foremost, like I said, at media hub,
we want to bring crypto awareness to the masses. And we're doing that through a number of different
verticals, but one being broadcast like this, um, we are always evolving and trying to learn different
ways where we can provide value to the market, to the industry. Um, and yeah, I mean, this is,
this is what I love doing and say like a lot of our, a lot of my core team, uh, we're working very
hard to build this thing up and they'd probably agree. We believe in the long-term vision, but let
me know if you have any, any questions. Yeah. That's super cool to hear. I mean, um, there's,
there's lots of competition in crypto and I was just chatting with a guy yesterday, kind of crazy guy.
is, is a big advisor to huge companies. And, and he kind of opened my eyes and he was saying that
in crypto, everyone is actually so small. Um, like he was saying in China, a $10 billion company
is a startup and he was like, so, so everything in crypto pretty much like, it doesn't matter except
for like Binance and all the big, big shots. And yet everyone is fighting with each other. Like
it's pretty rough out here. Right. And so what if, you know, we, we could really collaborate.
I know it's hard to kind of collaborate with people that are indirect competitors or whatever,
but if you try it's, it's actually very nice. Um, you know, you need to have boundaries and
everything, but, and so, uh, just, just love, uh, to, to see people spreading the word and, uh, the,
the vibe is good. So, so that's amazing.
I want to make a comment on that note because I'm hearing, I'm hearing a lot of this rhetoric
lately that this person is competition or people fighting or people wanting to carve out a piece
of the, or the whole cake for themselves when there's plenty for everyone. And I'm going to
use this example because you're from, you know, Mario, uh, someone recently brought up to me,
well, isn't, you know, aren't you guys competitors with Mario in the fall? And I, I just, I kind of
shrugged and I'm like, no way, not at all. I don't see this as a zero sum game, right? Just because people,
just because people listen to Joe Rogan or, uh, or Lex, Lex Friedman, for example, doesn't mean that
they're only listening to one of those podcasts or listening to all kinds of different podcasts.
And this kind of collaborative hive mind that we have formed on Twitter spaces,
it leaves room for everyone to have a piece of the cake. There's plenty to go around. There's
plenty to learn from. I've learned so much from listening to Mario's broadcasts. And I'm hoping
that, you know, people listen to these broadcasts and walk away with something to contribute and
develop in their own ecosystems. So that's, I mean, that's how I feel about it. And I hope that
the industry as a whole starts to move away from this, um, us versus everyone else,
or this is my competitor. Therefore, I don't want to, I don't want to deal with them, associate with
them. And, you know, I want to, I want to just push into the ground while I climb the ladder.
I don't think it needs to be like that. Yeah. And by the way, there was also a very good point,
which is like us versus them. It's also pretty risky to do crypto versus like the establishment
and the banks, because these guys are very powerful. So, uh, you know, like the, the founder of
MakerDAO recently died and that was, that was a pretty, I mean, sad, obviously and scary news in a
way. And, and I talked about it with a few friends and, and they all had their, their opinion, like
whatever, he knew something. And then, and the guy just said, Hey, he made lots of like bad comments
about the banks. He was, you know, creating a stable coin. And also like they, they talked about
how, uh, the Celsius guy, Alex as well. Um, he was very adamant about not liking the banks and
trashing the banks. And so these guys have lots of power. Um, they, they kind of need decentralization
because as much power as they have, it's, it's always good to have self custody, right? You, you can
still have your assets frozen, maybe unless you're like, I mean, using your own bank or whatnot, but
you're never safe, safe a hundred percent, but if you have self custody with technology, you, you
should be good and, and even powerful people on that. But if you attack them head on and, and
starts like spitting on, on their name and, and whatever, it's, it's pretty risky. I mean,
these guys, they have ego as well, and, and they can design connections like you, like crypto is
still, it's both resilient and fragile. So, so when you get to, to a certain point, um, you,
you need to be careful about what you say. And I think it's also why Binance, uh, was,
became so big. They were very aggressive, of course, but CZ is one of the humble guys,
you know, compared to, to Dockhorn and whatever. And so for that reason, um, he, he, he, he never
got like any big guy to, to pick on him. So, so there's, there's, these, these games, like,
you know, fighting within each, within crypto and then fighting outside of crypto, maybe none
of it is, is worth it. Uh, maybe we should just focus on, on building.
Yeah. I couldn't have said any of that better myself, Alex. Uh, all I'll, all I'll piggyback
off and say is it doesn't, this industry does not have to be a zero sum game, just like life
doesn't have to be a zero sum game. And I think the sooner people that are building figure this out,
the sooner everyone hopefully prospers and does well, I want to, I want to move on and talk a
bit more about your experience, gains associates and what you're excited about going forward.
What are some, and only if you can share with us, what are some projects that you guys have
more recently invested in that you are excited to share and also explain why you're bullish on them?
Yeah, there's a few. So there's one actually named few and far, it is an NFT marketplace on near. And so
the reasoning was pretty simple. They have the backing of near, the team is good, more than 10 years of
experience, the valuation was reasonable and we're like, okay, there has to be an NFT marketplace on
near. Sure. Maybe open seek and support near at some point, but a native one would resonate better.
So that was one of the investments we did. And there was magic square, which I like a lot.
So it's actually an app store for crypto. And you know, there's a lot of, it's pretty hard to get a
crypto app just validated because you have to go through lots of hoops and like, it's a bit random
as well. Some apps like the should be authorized, get authorized and some apps that should be there.
But anyway, so they, they're intubated by Binance actually, and Binance Labs. And so the team is very
good. I met them in Singapore. Again, 10, 15, 20 years of experience for the execs. They, they already had
like 50,000 users. They had the app ready when we invested. So that was pretty much a no brainer
when you can do that at a reasonable valuation. So this is a recent one we did. We did also
a very exciting project that I cannot really name, but they have the people from Hashgraph,
Indigo as well behind them. So very big shots. The valuation for this one was a bit high,
but they're doing some kind of storage with privacy on chain. And so this is also infrastructure,
which we do look at more in these more rougher times, you know, moving away from the gaming,
the metaverse and everything. So we do roughly one project per week these days. So that gives us good
timing to just do our research. And of course, we're looking into the Aptos ecosystem. And the
reasoning for that is, I mean, everyone was talking about it. There was some FUD,
to be honest with Aptos, you know, the craptos memes. But it's still holding relatively well.
And there's lots of big boys behind it. And they have a one year cliff. So the reasoning is that
they will need to pump it using, you know, the media they have and everything for the next year.
And so if we can find projects launching in the Aptos ecosystem before that, then that should be
pretty good. So we're also doing a few Aptos projects. So Alex, across, and by the way,
I love the idea of investing in infrastructure. I use that word a lot to describe my own personal
investments, especially when I'm explaining Ethereum to, for lack of a better term, plebeians,
normies, my friends that aren't savvy on crypto, but that want to get in. I basically say that
Ethereum is infrastructure. And it's the infrastructure that a lot of what is yet to be
seen still in this industry will be built on. But not to go too far on a tangent, bringing it back,
these projects that you have shared with us, and ones that you cannot share with us,
but you have invested in, are they available? I mean, where are these projects available for anyone
in your ecosystem in the gains associated, excuse me, in the gains associated VC to invest in?
Yes, yes, they were. So pretty much the way it works is, in the bull market, sometimes the deals
are very fast. And sometimes not everyone gets in on the projects. But these days, we have some time,
and we can usually get decent allocations. So if you're online, you shouldn't be able to miss a deal.
You have like a 24 to 48 hour window to get in on it. You know, we prepare a nice summary about the
project, the team, the partners, the VCs that are already in tokenomics and everything. So you can consume
the information in five to 10 minutes. It's pretty simple. Read a bit, the private groups, see what
people are saying, and then you can make your decision. So it's pretty simple. And these deals
were available for everyone, everyone who had staked more than 10,000 gains.
And let's talk about, let's go back to the tier list, because it ties into this. You said,
for anyone that has more than 10,000 gains staked, what tier is that? And what is the USD value of 10,000 gains?
Right, so we have four tiers, and the names are fish, dolphin, shark, and whale, ranging from 10,000
up to 200,000 for whale, with everything in between 30k and 100k for dolphin and shark. And yes, pretty
much when you go up a tier, you get to be in the new private group. So the chats are different. It's just
different people. There's some pretty crazy people in the whale group, for example, OGs, very rich guys,
of course. The shark group is actually the most active. These guys, they're pretty crazy with
DG and stuff and whatever. And just besides the nice conversation and the feeling to be part of a
group, again, you get to invest more in the projects as you rise within the tiers.
Not financial advice for anyone listening, but Alex, where is an easy place to acquire gains or buy
gains if we wanted to do that? So Uniswap and PancakeSwap. We haven't really listed on centralized
exchanges some very shady exchanges, like listed the token without us wanting to. So I would highly,
you know, go against going into anything else than Uniswap and PancakeSwap.
And will you be expanding to any other chains in the near future?
I mean, maybe. We don't feel like it's like necessary at the moment. BSC works well, no fees,
everything. So maybe, maybe at some point, but for now, it's not a priority. Actually, so we have a roadmap,
of course. And there is something that we kind of missed the boat in the last bull market,
which was the launchpad boat. And so, because there's something that's kind of pissed us off,
to be honest, is that the private sale market is very small compared to the public sale market.
And so we do, we're like the leader in what we do almost. And we're still pretty small. But some
kind of average launchpads are much bigger, just because people in crypto are more interested in
flipping, you know, investing $500 on one day and selling for $1,000 the next, and doing that again
and again, than investing $500, waiting for six months and getting $5K. So just because of that,
we used all the bear markets to prepare our own launchpad with a twist, of course, because
there's probably 50 or more launchpads. So we don't want to be like just another launchpad.
But we have that ready when the good times will come back and the public sales will be, you know,
something again. And we're always making the platform better. There's a few features
as investors that people really like. So we have a calendar, you might know if you start to invest,
even in just five deals, you're going to receive tokens on like Ethereum, BSC, Matic, maybe. And
there's going to be a different vesting schedule for everything. So unless you're very, you know,
detail oriented, and you have your own spreadsheets, you're not going to know when you receive tokens
and everything. And so for that, on the website, we have everything is easily explained, you have a
calendar to track your future distributions. So we have done some work to make sure the journey as an
investor is, you know, you have the most information you need at all points, and you feel good and safe.
Alex, I want to get speculative here. And I'm going to preface this with, again, an NFADYOR
disclosure. But you are quite experienced, relatively speaking. I mean, I find that you've
probably been involved more in this industry in this market than 99% of people I talk to. So
give me your, let's see. Yeah. Give me your thoughts on where you see the overall industry
going in the next one to two years. Are you bullish? Are you bearish? Are you neutral? And
then also, I mean, you kind of hinted at this with investments in infrastructure, but what do you think
the next big thing or things or catalysts will be to drive adoption and, you know, open the gates for the
next wave of money flowing into this market? Yeah, that's an amazing question. I'm quite bullish.
I think actually, regulation is going to be very good for us. When I was younger, I didn't like the
rules at all. I don't like them that much even now. But I kind of, you know, made up my accepted that
regulation was something good. And the reason why is simply because, well, we need to kind of move
away from all the scams and everything. It's just now not how, you know, we can build something big.
And also, there is big money sitting on the sidelines that cannot get in because it's not regulated
enough and everything. So, you know, the point is pretty much the big money comes in, pumps Bitcoin,
and then the kind of retailers, your parents slowly buy into, you know, more altcoins and kind of pump
your bags in a way. But I'm very bullish on like both Bitcoin and a decent number of altcoins because of
the regulations. So Micah is going to come next year for Europe. And so, yeah, I think it's going
to be good. And regulation, you know, there's actually, it's weird in a way, but there was
recently Freeway. It was kind of, I'm not sure if it is a Ponzi or whatever, but they offered 43% APY,
which is a lot, probably way too much. But they attracted so many people because they said they were
regulated. So the catch was, you know, sure, they were regulated and audited, but only once a year.
And the last, the latest audit was at the top of the bull market. And then pretty much their traders
and assets got wrecked in the bear markets. But the point is, the reason why they were able to
get so many people on board, I mean, most of the people they knew, they were like 40, they were saying
two things at the same time, they were like, the smart guys, right? Hey, 43% APY is way too much.
This is not sustainable. But hey, they're audited and regulated. Let's APY. So if regulation can make
kind of like a semi Ponzi or scam, make smart people get in, I think it can do a lot for like
legit, legit projects. So, so I think when I don't know when the market is going to go up again and
everything, I do see smart people starting to like slowly buy and they're less sitting on the sidelines.
They're like, you know, they're just putting their butts up the bench and looking more at what's
happening. They're not just like sitting, laying back. So, so I think things are like, there's just
like a little light, a spark. So yeah, I think I'm just bullish long term, of course, otherwise I
wouldn't be here. It wouldn't make sense.
My philosophy is almost identical to yours, especially with how I felt about regulation
four years ago versus how I feel about it now. One of my favorite Kevin O'Leary spiels,
quotes, if you will, that I refer back to quite often, and I might have even brought it up on our
call is that 90% of the world's wealth is stored in sovereign sovereign pension plans. Most of those
can't even invest in Bitcoin if they wanted to. If they could, they would allocate 50 to 100 basis
points. So I think that regulation is actually great. It's probably going to start with stable
coins as we're seeing with MICA, MICA being very focused on stable coins amongst other things,
but mainly stable coins. And people will be surprised how much money floods in once those
gates have been opened. I don't mean to grill you, but I want to dive a little deeper into
your thoughts on Ethereum, because me, I love Bitcoin as well, but I noticed that you said Bitcoin
and cryptos. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on Ethereum. I love Ethereum. I actually think
there is much more upside on Ethereum than Bitcoin. I hold more Ethereum than Bitcoin, especially with
the recent merge. I mean, if you take a look at the numbers, it's crazy, the selling pressure,
how much it's reduced, right? I mean, I don't have the numbers in mind. I made a Twitter a few months
ago about it, I think, but there was like daily selling pressure from the miners. That's, I mean,
some, they have cashflow, but pretty much these guys needed to sell Ethereum each day to cover
the electricity costs. And now that we're moving to proof of stake, that's gone. And also we have
like more burn and everything. So it's changed. I mean, like I think 95% less selling pressure,
something crazy. And so when you think how high ETH was able to pump with like the selling pressure
there was in when the things done good again, sentiment wise, I think ETH is going to fly. Yeah.
And by the way, just sorry. Sure, sure. Go ahead. There is. So the numbers, the adoption on chain
are pretty scary for every layer one besides Ethereum. Like even the big guys, Polkadot, Avalanche,
Solana, Cardano, all these guys, they only have a few tens of thousands of monthly active users on
chain. So like, you know, 30,000 people interacted with Polkadot last month on chain. That's,
that's ridiculously low. And Ethereum is miles, miles, miles away. Ethereum is the only ecosystem
with DeFi, with people transacting and everything on a much bigger scale. So, and when you take,
when you know that the valuations, these other layer ones have compared to Ethereum, if you take into
account the adoption, Ethereum has much more installed than these guys. These guys are a bit overvalued
for the very little on chain activity they have. So your short term bearish layer ones?
Um, I, I don't know. I have no idea. I just, I just hold.
Love it. And I wanted to, I wanted to just piggyback off of you saying Ethereum's post search,
or post search, post merge supply is growing at a bit over 0.1% compared to the pre-merge, which is about
3.7%. So right on the money there. Um, I think EIP 1559 did some fantastic things for, for the
tokenomics, Alex, we're going to wrap things up here. And I feel like you and I could just get on
here and shoot the shit for hours, but is there anything about gains associates about the projects
you're working on investing in and or about just the market as a whole that you want to share with us?
I'm, I mean, first of all, I would actually have loved to hear more about, uh, your thoughts and
everything. Um, because I think what you, what you said, uh, was very interesting, uh, whenever you spoke,
um, besides that, I mean, I think these are hard times and I know it helped me a lot when I was new in the
space in 2019, 2020, during these bear markets to have OGs that had been here since 2013, 14 and
whatever. And, and you just knew with the energy they had in the chats that this guy has been through
a few things and it's just gave me confidence to keep on going. So, so if I can maybe give you
something today is I, I think crypto has very good fundamentals. I mean, it's, it's really something
that solves the exchange of value at scale, censorship resistance. You have control of your
own funds. I mean, it's something revolutionary. So, uh, you know, a lot of people, they, they change
their, their, like, um, actions based on the sentiments. But if you have a thesis, if you
really believe in it, you should not change, uh, what you say. You shouldn't say, Hey, Bitcoin,
Bitcoin is a scam at 10 K and all Bitcoin is amazing at 50. It should be the exact same. So
I think it's, it's good to, to take a, you know, take some good breath, breathing exercises or whatever.
Um, keep on learning that that's how you become more confident. Uh, the, the more I learned about
everything, the more you, you hear people chat and, and everything, it just, it helps you. Um,
so, so yeah, good times always come after bad times. Um, so, so keep going, I guess. And, uh,
with gains, uh, you know, we, we're trying to, we keep going that that's what we do, uh, trying to,
to get the best deals as always. So there will always be more. Some people, they're like,
Oh, I missed this deal and this deal. I'm like, don't worry. There will be more. Um, so yeah,
I mean, thanks a lot for having me. Um, and I mean, yeah, as well, I guess I would like to return
you the question, um, how, how do you feel maybe about the market or anything you would like to,
to share as well?
Yeah, certainly. First of all, thank you for that. Uh, those closing statements. I think people
that are experiencing their first bear market need to understand that the tech is no different
today than it was a year ago. In fact, I'd say it's, it's more mature than it was a year or two
ago. The prices might be different. People were very upset in my circles for not being able to buy
sub 20 K Bitcoin. They got what they asked for, but no one was biting. It was the same deal in 2018.
People were like, Oh God, I wish I got three to four K Bitcoin. Uh, I missed it. I missed it.
Hey man, you got three to four K Bitcoin for several months starting. I believe the end of
Thanksgiving at 2018 in 2018, all the way through the end of January. And almost 99% of people I know
didn't buy, didn't buy in that period. I'm not sure why, right? It's, uh, if you understood
Bitcoin fundamentally, which is not very hard to understand, even the white paper is not hard to digest.
It's, it's written in a way for the average individual to be able to get a general understanding
of what, what problems solving. So my strategy going forward and my strategy, I wish I tried to get
less cute with my strategy in 2018, but my strategy going forward is just DCA again. I'm not a trader.
I buy dips. I buy into ecosystems that I can see a bright future for, and I just hold. And that,
that's what I've been doing for the last three years. And it's more or less paid off as far as
where I see the market going. I'm by no means a professional speculator or, um, technical analysis.
And I don't mean reading charts. I mean, I mean fundamental analysis, but the, the macro,
the macro fundamentals or rather the macro economy doesn't seem to favor speculative assets. So I'm
not very bullish over the next one to two years. I, um, I foresee a bit more pain on the way. However,
take that with a fat grain of salt, D Y O R N F A. I'm by no means an expert and I've been wrong many
times before, but I'm not concerned with the prices. Really. I, I have my daily expenses in my life
and I have my investments. Crypto is part of my investments. I buy in every month, um, into assets
that I like. Um, and one of the great things about bear markets for me is I get to go back to the basics.
I get to buy assets that I, I, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum being two of them that I found to be,
and people call me a grandpa and call me a vanilla for, for being a Bitcoin Ethereum show, but I get
to go back and buy, buy Bitcoin and Ethereum that were too expensive for me at this time last year.
Um, so I'm quite happy with it. I get to build without many distractions. There were so many pumps
happening every second of every moment or rather every second of every day last year. I didn't have
my intent. My attention was in 10 places at once. I couldn't just focus on one thing because
you're missing all these pumps. Those pumps are still around, but, uh, they're few and far in
between. And I get to focus on what's important and that's, you know, building whale coin talk with
an amazing team of people and, um, you know, growing, growing us for the next, for the next big wave
in this industry. Whenever that comes, I don't know when it's going to come, but, um, I guess Alex gave
incredible advice towards the end here and I'm going to add something else to that. Twitter
spaces did not exist four years ago. And I wish it had, because I think there are so many great
communities and so many great, great spaces that are happening where you can learn so much. I, I mean,
anyone's always welcome to join whale coin talk or the aquarium, but I, I, I hop into Mario in the
falls round table quite often. And there are so many smart people that join that space. And there's
so many people to learn from in that space and you get access to those people as well. You can
message them on Twitter afterwards. They respond to you. I mean, Alex, you and I got to connect
because of a space we would have either otherwise never met. So I would take advantage of this,
this incredible tool that's available to us and that has brought us all together in an industry where,
I mean, it's cliche to say this, but if you look at metrics and you look at statistics and you look
at numbers, we're still early. That's just a, it's not an opinion. It's a fact. So I'll leave you guys
with that. And I want to appreciate Alex so much for coming on today. I think we, this was a really
informative AMA, if you will. These are my favorite ones to do because my hope is audience members leave,
leave this broadcast with a, with a bit of knowledge, a bit, a bit more informed with respect
to this industry than they were prior. So yeah. Thank you. Oh, actually, Alex, really quickly,
I have two hands up and I want to get to community questions. Cause I think that you might like some
of these coming your way. Is that, is that okay with you? Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it. Okay.
Let's go with, let's go with Aisha first. Thank you, Noah. I've read on your website that you
monitor participants' behavior to set reputation points based on their actions. I want to know how
will you be monitoring participants' behavior and what type of actions will determine reputation points
and what penalty will be there for participants with low reputation points? Oh, that's a good
question. So I haven't like really explained that, but we, we have two things. We have on-chain analytics
that we built. It was, it was not easy. It took us a few months, but pretty much we know who dumps
and who holds because I mean, for a few exceptions, right? We can make, you know, educated guesses
whenever the tokens leave to an address. Sometimes we can flag it as a centralized exchange and, you know,
you might not have sold everything on KuCoin, but pretty much that's what we assume. So anyway,
the point is we know with pretty, you know, fine analysis what happens. So for example, the velocity
as well of the selling matters. You know, if you sell for 50k on Uniswap and create a big red candle
and kind of fuck the project, you're going to have a red flag on you. And so we have all this data. We
haven't implemented it. And for now, like the reputation points are not live, but this will
be one component, you know, kind of rewards the diamond hands and there will be, it's going to
be gamified. There's going to be a scale you'll see on your account. Hey, you're like a paper hand
or you're like a strong hand or a diamond hand, like kind of, you know, a speed thing in the cars and see
where you are. And that's going to be a small thing, but just to encourage people to, to hold
more because that's how you support the projects. And the second thing will be with the social
engagements. And similarly, you know, we, you can connect your Twitter accounts on our website.
And you, when you like retweet and everything that counts towards your engagement score.
And again, so these are not live, but we have all the data in the backend. And this is also on the
roadmap quite soon, maybe probably before the end of the year to, to for now it's going to be benefits
to do is that help and so on. I'm not really big into like penalties. You know, we'll see how it is,
but yeah, the people who, who help more, uh, we'll get, we'll have some, some bonuses, some exclusive
deals maybe, or something, because it is something that the best projects ask of us, you know, um,
can we have the best diamond hands? Can we have the, the most active community members? So if you do
the work, um, you, you will get rewarded pretty much.
Interesting. Thank you so much for explaining very nicely. Thank you.
Great question, Aisha. Captain Levi, last but not least.
Yeah. Thanks, Noah. Um, I, I really appreciate you coming, uh, taking a few notes. Um, I actually
have two questions, but the first, you might actually be able to answer it quite quickly.
Um, I don't mean to put you on a tight spot, but, um, during the course of the, um, discussion,
you actually call, um, centralized exchanges shady. Um, um, to an extent, um, a lot of people have
actually done this. Um, feel free to, um, you can feel free not to talk too much about it,
but why do you consider, um, centralized exchanges, um, shady?
I mean, I guess it's, it's a scale, right? But, um, centralized exchanges, they, they trade
against their clients. Uh, BitMEX was very, uh, famous or infamous for doing that. They, they can
sell assets that they do not own, uh, because they simply bet that not everyone is going to
withdraw at once. So for example, they can hold, I don't know, a hundred Bitcoins and sell for 200
because they, they have some info, whatever, crash the price and buy back. And because no one,
you know, they can just put sell orders on their exchange. So there's a lot of like these things
that can happen. You never really know. Uh, some exchanges tell you they don't take any fees,
but pretty much they take fees by having a higher price. So, so there's lots of small details. Um,
you know, I'm, I'm not sure what happens behind the doors of every exchange. Uh, but there's some of that.
I understand that. Okay. Um, here's my final question. Um, the, the only way to connect,
um, the wallet is by using, um, PancakeSwap and Uniswap. Earlier, I actually heard you talk about that.
Um, are there any plans to create your own swap mechanism in the future? Because, um, some projects
usually do this. And, um, when they create, they urge everyone to join in by creating certain
incentives, like lower taxes. Um, this actually draws in people to use that swap, you know,
increasing its popularity somehow. So is there going to be anything like, you know,
the gains associated swap in the future? Most likely not. Uh, we might, you know,
evolve, like build new products, but I don't think we'll have a Uniswap or PancakeSwap or something like
that if that was the question. All right, Alex. Um, okay. Um, sorry, um, I'm taking too much time,
but, uh, I really want to, um, get your thoughts on this one. Um, on your terms and conditions and
your privacy policy, um, I actually heard about the way you guys request to, you know, manage users' data,
um, and that, um, users can actually request, um, how these data should be managed. Um, can you tell us
about, um, your data management system, especially those who provide, um, uh, would I say, um,
important, um, units of data? Um, sure. Uh, I mean, I guess my CTO would be better suited, but
we, I mean, all the passwords are encrypted, uh, sorted, whatever, uh, in the database and the data
we have is, is all encrypted. We, we don't sell the data to anyone, uh, for now, uh, might change in the
future, but for now, I mean, we, we keep everything and, and that's it. It's for analytics purposes,
you know, like the data we have, the on-chain data, the wallets, uh, again, uh, the question from Aisha,
we really use it, um, to, to display some stats and maybe rewards for, for some guys. But for now,
there is no partnership where your data is sold or anything like that. Alexander, thanks for coming.
Um, that would be all the questions on my end. I really wish the games associate, um, for
bullying stay in Moonworld. I appreciate your answers. Over to you, Noah. Thank you so much.
I mean, these, these questions were really nice. Thank you, Captain Levi. Bonus question for Mr. Rahmat,
and then we're going to wrap things up. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Noah. Okay. So I understand that
all the projects are handpicked cautiously, but I was thinking if any project, uh, get listed on your
launch pad for private sale and later, any community member brings up any evidence, um,
that a particular project is a potential scam. So is community member able to report the project
to your team and, uh, will you going to have, uh, and will you going to have the authority to cancel
or maybe delay the private sale of any particular project at any given time?
So it's a very good question. I mean, we, uh, I'm quite reachable. You can DM me if I miss it,
you know, ping me again. Uh, some, so first of all, some people, they're very quick to, to label
projects as scams, but I mean, let's say there was a real scam. We, we have lost quite a lot of
power and leverage once the money is sent. Uh, we actually, we, we have been through, uh, I was,
I was saying like, I was going to tell stories, didn't have the chance this time, but we, we have
been through many scams that that's just how you learn. Uh, we are actually in a lawsuit for the past
two years with a company, not going into the details, but a lawsuit is very expensive time
consuming. It's, it's just a pain in the ass from, for everything. You don't want that in your life.
And the projects know that, which is why some they're like, you know, soft scamming and rugging
and slowly dying. And they took the money they raised and you don't really know what they did with
it. The reality is if you have 10 XCs, 50 XCs, a hundred XCs and more, uh, that's because the space is
still young, there is risk. It's a bit, the wild west it's changing. And so you don't have much
recourse, uh, compared to investing in traditional companies in crypto. Once you have sent the money,
pretty much you have to accept, you don't know where the money's gone and maybe you'll get a 20 XC
in three months and maybe you'll get nothing. So, so we have tried to use some kind of like leverage
with our network, intimidation tactics and various things with projects when things went sour.
But usually the results are not so great and you just have to accept that the crazy upside comes
with some risk. Understood. It makes sense. Thank you so much for answering. Over to you, Noah.
Thank you. Alexander, it's been a pleasure, man. I hope to do more of these in the future.
Yeah, same. Thank you so much. Whale coin talk community. Thank you so much for joining. Remember
that everything you've heard today is not financial advice. Always do your own research
and be safe out there. My name is Noah signing out.
