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Gamified #114 | Might & Magic in web3?? | Pudgy Party
Recorded: April 23, 2025 Duration: 2:02:54Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, panelists explored significant developments in the crypto gaming space, including the successful fundraising of Ragnarok Genesis Land, the launch of new projects like the Pudgy Penguins game, and strategic partnerships such as Ubisoft's collaboration with Immutable. The conversation highlighted emerging trends, growth opportunities, and the importance of established IPs in driving engagement within the Web3 ecosystem.
Full Transcription
ae trike ggs the gang we're so back this is my first time back in the office
in a while and uh feels weird man feels weird honestly i've been moving around so much it
feels really really strange to not be uh around like 17 different people every
day and i don't know we'll get back in the flow i'm excited those could be a good episode today looks like a couple of people
DMing me saying that the Twitter space
isn't quite showing up for them
what's a Wednesday without a couple issues with Twitter?
We'll bounce back.
Might have to go a couple extra minutes today
while we let it sort itself out.
But luckily, it doesn't look like anything is collapsing underneath us.
Not rugged quite yet.
Yeah, notification worked for me.
But, you know, it's just another day of Yvonne Twitter things.
He's too busy making Grok better.
He needs to work on making spaces better and, you know, take a chill on Grok.
XAI is hopefully pointing all that Grok power at learning what's wrong with all the fucking
spaces code.
That would make me really happy.
Do you guys think, I just saw Ronin, Ragnarok Genesis Land got 14.9 million RON in their ticket system, which is right behind Fableborn's 15.4 million RON dedicated for it.
Do you guys like topics like that?
Do we want to talk about is land so back because people are willing to spend a lot of money on it again, at least in a certain ecosystem?
Or is that just,
is that just not interesting?
It's too,
too pricey.
It's hard.
It's hard because like,
did they really,
was that really a bunch of people that put that money there or did someone
put a bunch of money there?
Well,
I think it's probably real,
but like you have people,
like I remember on the fable forum when Grail put in just a stupid amount of money
to try and win as many as he could because he knew he was going to lose a bunch.
And it's like, there's obviously smart contract risk,
but you're not really putting money at risk.
You're just increasing your odds of getting more spots.
But I do think the NFT, the land thing has changed.
I feel like people just treat land NF, land is just normal NFTs now.
I feel like the whole land meta from 21
has thankfully like died out of them being super,
super expensive and they're just kind of like
regular NFTs now.
At least that's how I see it.
Yeah, thank God that crazy madness
from a couple of years ago is finally finished.
It was short lived and I think gladly so.
Are you saying for land NFTs as a whole, Michael,
or a specific approach to them in particular?
I just thought that how kind of land,
kind of like the metaverse land grab stuff
was always pretty kind of silly and far fetched.
And I just always found it quite a limiting vision
of what interconnected virtual worlds would be.
It's like, okay, we can build an infinite connection
of different worlds,
and we can kind of create limited real estate there.
I mean, that just didn't ever connect to me
how conceptually why that was a cool idea.
It's like you always hear about how, you know, diamonds are actually not that rare, but a bunch of people just made them finite by being like, we're going to own all of them and only release a certain amount.
Let's make the infinite stuff finite.
And I feel like the land meta was like at peak nft mania too so like the pricing was just absurd
and people got burned so so hard because it was just like oh you have this land plot but don't
worry there's going to be like cool stuff you can do in future just give me five figures for it
everybody knows the future of real estate investing is digital real estate.
It's almost unironically correct because RWA is,
if you consider RWAs to be digital real estate, like kind of, you know,
just digital real estate that represents physical real estate, right?
Yeah, just don't let Jerry be right.
Sorry, I'm supposed to be working in the opposite direction.
So we find the flaws in the logic here, not solutions.
Up first, we've got this individual that's forged a fascinating, formidable path,
planting new seeds of Glitter Cloud Solutions,
a consultancy crafted to catalyze
and cultivate the very
core of blockchain gaming from sharpshooter to catalyst consultant.
It's the king of the kill streak, the ultimate hype, man.
It's Dub.
Yo, what up, everybody?
Stoked to freaking be here.
If you're going to be in Vegas for Level Up, I can't wait to see you there and play some
wild card with the freaking fans.
And then I'll be in Dubai with all my DG's.
Then we'll be in Toronto and then we'll be in London.
It's a great freaking month, man. Can't wait.
Damn. I thought mine was hectic, but I'm not doing Vegas or Dubai.
And I'm still stressed out.
So congrats on continuing your legacy as the guy that goes to everything.
Are people like me and have never heard of Level Up?
Is that even what it's called, the Conference in Vegas?
I had never heard of it before this too, but I'm stoked about it now.
Is this like the 20th year of it or something, or do they just come up with it?
No, it's like the 20th year or something like that.
I don't know, dude.
These conferences, man, they just pop up and they've been going for a while and just nobody
knows about them until they do.
All right.
God bless.
I guess I'm not a real gamer.
Up next, now a business dev bruiser at Avalanche.
He's got the brains, the brawn, and the banter, a Super Smash Bros. Slayer, a Blattro Brainiac,
and a Web3 Workhorse.
He's a rising star with main character energy,
built to scale mountains and metaverses.
It's the Sultan of Smash, the on-chain ox.
It's Wills.
Yo, yo, yo.
Is everybody else playing the Oblivion remaster
that announced and dropped in like three days?
I feel like everybody started playing that
before I even came to terms with
the fact that it was real so crazy marketing strat that i've been thinking about but you know
excited to spend another 120 on a game i'm probably not gonna play and do how bad like i feel so bad
for the guys who are working on sky oblivion that like family project for like 10 years like like
r.i.p they gave like i saw all this
like wholesome reddit like oh the bethesda team gave them free copies of uh of the remaster
and it's like dude like and like you know there's still hope in the industry bethesda is so good to
their modding community and it's like no dude they didn't tell anybody about this and they didn't
even give the team time to react because they announced and dropped it in two weeks.
Anyways, I could go on for hours.
That is savage.
We know you spent 10 years on this, but don't worry.
You don't have to spend $59.99 on a remastered version of the game you've been working on.
They did say they're not going to shut it down.
That seemed cool.
But yeah, that was out of the blue.
I'm not putting it on my PC because if I do, I know I'll get nothing done.
And unfortunately, there's a lot of work to do.
Brace yourselves up next for a financial firestorm.
We're talking millions juggled like they're flaming bowling pins.
Budgets that would make a dragon sweat gold and a personality that could ignite something between a garbage fire and a supernova.
He's a full-blown inferno in the Web3 gaming scene with Glitter Cloud Solutions as the guiding light for many as they go to market. And he's building one of the most exciting projects to date on the Farcade
in his spare time. Prepare yourselves for a personality that can melt your motherboard,
the incendiary innovator, the human flamethrower. It's Tony V.
Yo! Hey! Exciting to be here, guys. I'm actually hanging out
in Vegas with some of the 100X boys that are going to be playing in the wildcard event
on Saturday. Super excited. Dub that are going to be playing in the wildcard event on Saturday.
Super excited.
Dubothy's going to be out here with me.
And it's been around for 11 years, Sam.
11 years.
The Level Up Conference has been uniting anime
and artistic creators.
I did not just read that from the internet.
But no, it's going to be great.
I don't know if anyone tuned in to the last wildcard match,
but the two guys from the community just shellacked
the Team Liquid guys.
And I'm pretty excited to see if that happens again.
But thanks for having us up here.
Love you guys.
That's pretty sick.
Yeah, if it's an anime conference, now it makes sense why I've never heard of it.
Not a big anime guy, but shout out.
Glad you guys are having fun.
We all have faults.
We all have faults.
Also super jealous that the guys get to play against Team Liquid members. That's a wet dream of mine. So let Mr. House know that he's on my shit list
now. Up next, he's a wizard weaving web traffic and a cunning connoisseur, commanding captivating
conversations and colossal conversions. At the helm of uptick, he's the audacious architect
assembling audience adoration, and he's the man in the arena on AVAX's social media hosting shows.
You've marveled at his meteoric metamorphosis from golden fraud to the glorious gleaming golden god
forged in the fiery furnace of gamified greatness it's jerry the golden god singer
hey what's up somebody actually somebody called me about on the call today and i was like very
taken aback but i just canceled my uh trips to vegas tor, Dubai, and whatever else that's going to be at.
If you guys are free, hit me up. I've got time.
I have to assume it was somebody in
Web3, but in my head, my first reaction was
you had to call Comcast or something,
and they were like, is this the golden god?
That would make my year. I'd be
forever happy. Yeah, it was Comcast.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Next, behold,
mortal is a towering titan
who storms from the abyss
of the forbidden
carbon cataclysmic chronicles
that blaze untrodden trails
through Web3 Gaming.
He's the indomitable intellect
forging my angry Yakuza girlfriend
of volcanic visionary
who wields wisdom
as divine lightning.
A behemoth of bold tastes
and brazen taboos.
The Renaissance rebel
that shakes the heavens
and strikes fear
into the peasants and gutless wanks alike. It's the titan of taboo, the renaissance rebel that shakes the heavens and strikes fear into the peasants
and gutless wanks alike it's the titan of taboo the founder who can't be bought it's sinjin
hey guys sam if you ever want to go to netherlands to the team liquid uh you know headquarters for a
private tour or whatever you let me know i'll take you anytime brother oh singen you know how to pander to me just just like in a way that nobody
else does i love you dude up next ladies and lords prepare for a whirlwind of wicked wit and wondrous
wisdom he's the masterful might for more morphing maddening mayhem into crystal clear captivating
clarity as my chief simplifying officer he's the michael jordan of meticulous mouse clicks
stacking sky high stashes of runescape riches he's the magician
of magic eating making sure your nfts are perfectly priced and placed on the marketplace
go answer the door for knock yo i was gonna say what will said this new meta of announce the game
three days later here it is play it is so much fucking fun um i'm like three hours away from
beating all quests max skill level and all skills And acquiring all masterwork items in Dragon Wilds
So then I will definitely dive into Oblivion shortly after
Do you just play video games all day?
When do you get your job done?
I have actually not slept much in the last eight days or so
I work until five or six o'clock
And then I play until about five or 6 o'clock and we go again.
What the fuck?
It's the release of RuneScape.
I've got to beat it before everybody else in my
old school clans.
Sleep is simply inefficient.
He works for an hour
and then he plays games for 12 hours.
Okay? He left a piece out.
That's what's going on.
I just want to see the piles of Celsius and caffeine gum that's surrounding Nock
as he rolls his chair up to his desk.
He's taking fucking...
Injecting alpha brain straight into his brain, dude.
There's a thing in the RuneScape community.
It's like anything other than...
Yeah, anything other than clicking is just XP waste,
and we're not trying to waste any XP.
You're a psychopath.
Up next, he swapped sterile boardrooms for taking a stab at gaming greatness.
This diehard devotee revolutionary is so, his ripple is so seismic,
it spawned a Black Mirror episode this season.
He mesmerizes massive mobs with captivating charisma,
and he's a leader in Web3 Esports, the reigning king of the TCGs with Parallel.
Draped in his legendary pot of greed, Yu-Gi-Oh! jacket, he's the Parallel Packrat,
the movie-obsessed oligarch. It's Koji.
Feria, what's up, man?
Anyone who's in the Wolf chat knows I went on a long rant about how we don't make original things anymore
and how shitty that is and here i am like binging the out of uh oblivion you know like they don't
they they they released skyrim like a thousand times on every system and they're like you know
what we should just go back and re-release all the other games a thousand times on every system and
i'm kind of like i don't want to like it but it it's like cocaine for me, man. I just mainline that shit.
It's so good.
Dude, this is why we can't have nice things.
You could be playing Split Fiction, an original IP, with one of your good friends named Sam.
But instead, we've got to play Oblivion for the 17th time.
It's okay.
It's okay.
Bro, don't.
Split Fiction sucked.
Don't even bring that up.
Whoa.
Oh, my God, dude.
Why did we let him talk?
What?
That's a great question.
We're going to revisit that in just a little bit.
Up next, this next guest leveled up from Nintendo Nostalgia to Neural Networks.
He's the charismatic crusader for Yumio.
It's crafting on-chain characters with chat, change, and chill in 3D worlds.
Excuse me.
He's courting the underrated...
God, God, fucking fucking every now and then
i write a new one and it's clear i didn't practice it enough he's courting the under saturated sims
loving simulation crowd with a smart self-learning sidekick that grows alongside you welcome the
world weaver the protocol puppeteer from yumio it's michael o'connor thank you very much brother
uh yeah great to be here. Great to be back.
It's been a while.
I look at the panel,
and I'm privileged to be chatting alongside such luminaries and, yeah, and good mates.
So, yeah, looking forward to diving into it.
Luminaries.
Well done.
Up next, the 30-year titan of the code.
A world builder of mythic proportions.
He has the rare honor of working on a game inducted into the World Video Game Hall of Fame,
forming the very fabric of play.
A parallel pioneer holding court in the top 30.
He's a master of mechanics and metagames.
Recently, he stepped into the spotlight with the Project O Invitational at the Wolves Den,
dropping jaws and setting the stage for what's next.
From Coin Games and Project O, it's Kevin Lambert.
Hey, I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear any of that over the sound of Split Fiction sucks.
So we'll have to come back to that.
But hey, great to be here.
We're going to have to add a topic real quick on Split Fiction just to sort that out.
Last but not least, behold, a slinky, spectacular serpent
from the shimmering, sublime sanctuary of Lizard Labs,
tipping the scales at a svelte 2.4 pounds.
This tiny, trailblazing Titan is ready to rocket,
so clap those claws for the little lizard legend.
It's lambs.
GM, what is good, everyone?
Yeah, I forgot there was this conference thing in Toronto.
I'm literally leaving like two weeks before,
so I won't be able to see you guys. I'll just be bouncing
out, but hey, Cyprus will be nice
and maybe I'll get a conference started
in Cyprus. We'll get the new
Web3 Gaming Conference of Cyprus going on
and I'll have a nice Mediterranean vacation.
I don't hate the sound of that.
It is weird, though. You leave Toronto right before
consensus happens. There's Spark Sea leaves Dubai
like right as the conference happens in Dubai.
You guys just need to stay put for like an extra week.
Of course, we've got to give a giant, colossal shout out to our sponsors, starting with
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And these aren't your run-of-the-mill developers.
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So you can now venture into a cosmos teaming with discovery chart on unexplored sectors of
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that'll redefine your perception of the metaverse,
and acquire an access key to embark on this interstellar journey.
Plot a course for Star Atlas's Discord,
and join the fleet of the official game of Gamified.
We're jumping in with disappointed or delighted Pudgy Party.
The new mythical game featuring Pudgy Penguin's IP,
looks to be a Fall Guys clone with Pudgy Penguin IP.
But is that a good or bad thing?
Not a lot of preamble here.
Are you disappointed or delighted to see them taking this IP
and sort of making a spinoff of a genre that people seem to like?
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Simple prompts here.
Let's go to Tony V first.
Oh, I love it. I think it that a good thing or a bad thing simple prompts here let's go to tony v first oh i love it i think it's a good thing um i i love the mythical guys over the team over there i think they make fun stuff they have a great team that is uh good at finding the fun and so
while it you know might look like a clone i imagine it's going to be uh it's gonna have
their own take and their own um uh flavor on it. And I think the pudgy
penguins are a great backdrop for that style of game. Like I can imagine playing that with
my nine-year-old. So I, you know, I wish them all the best of luck and I think it's going
to be a lot of fun. And I don't think that like, if I were starting a company and trying
to create a new IP, I don't know that I would also be trying to create a new genre of video game to play and introduce as well.
I think there's only so much you want to create the first of.
Yeah, what's that, Tony?
Excuse me?
Yeah, I know, Koji.
I know that you're a fucking renaissance man.
No, I'm just kidding.
You backflips and sing and you're beautiful and you have beautiful wives and beautiful families.
I know, Koji.
You won the lottery, both genetic and real and incredible tattoos don't forget that let's go
to dub and then the limbs yeah yeah i'm also delighted for all the reasons tony said but as
in addition it's like the template and the best practices for this genre are pretty well defined like the content pipeline to support a live ops
plan is like pretty clear and go forward and there's room for improvement on the genre as a
whole they can do different game modes it doesn't all have to be fall guys forever you know it can
be some battle royale variant or what have you um so i's, it's, um, mobile friendly to like, or browser
friendly, like it's scales better and just lands better.
And I think we've in web three, I think we're a bit thorny to fall guy clones
because we've seen some very bad ones over the past, like three or four years.
I can think of like three of them off the top of my head on salon or say say or what have you so looking forward to seeing someone like take a legitimate good swing at the
fall guys genre and produce a good product here fair take let's go to lens then to singin
all right i'm going against the crowd i'm going to say disappointed but before i get canceled like
you know hear me out here um luca had tweeted like i
don't know months ago about like oh like we're building like this crazy game and like with
mythical and it's going to be like this like one of the best games in web 3 and i'm like oh this
sounds really interesting and then when i see the trailer drop i'm like it's just a fall guys clone
like i love luca and the team and what they've done on hudges over there and i think this could
still be a big success.
I was just disappointed based on thinking
that they were going to do something original.
And guys, we've all seen many, many clones in Web3,
whether it's like the 9,000 Among Us clone
and just being like, you know, shitty Fall Guys.
I don't know if anyone's actually done Fall Guys
with any amount of success in Web3.
So I think their IP is geared for this kind of a game,
like the casual game and they could
you know knock it out of the park and hit a home run with it maybe they got some interesting new
game mechanics in there that will make it interesting but like my gut reaction was just
kind of disappointed when i saw the trailer drop i'm still you know optimistically hopeful that
they will do something cool with this and it'll you know be a huge success because it'll be really good for the space as a whole if they do manage to gain the traction and they got
a really good ip but yeah just uh after seeing that knowing they were working on it for a while
and then just seeing it be like oh it's fall guys but pudgies it was just yeah it was a little
disappointing sinjin i want to go to you next we've seen uh play ember work on the pudgy ip and
make a derivative from one of their successful mobile games that they already had we've seen Play Ember work on the Pudgy IP and make a derivative from one of their successful mobile games that they already had.
We've seen now Lawland.
We have YGG taking a stab at a Monopoly Go with Pudgy IP.
When we've also seen, oh man, I had a third example in my head, but I'm losing it right now.
We've seen them do this a few different times with Pudgy IP.
My question to you is, at a certain point, is it time to take a stab at an original game concept or is this the formula to just find keep keep prying across multiple genres that have
already been proven to work and hopefully one of them sticks yeah i think uh for pudgies it
absolutely is like making an original game is hell like if if you if you haven't made one do not make
one i'm telling you don't don, don't ever make an original game.
You, you will want to jump off a bridge multiple times a day.
Um, but Luca does what Luca does, not for the web three industry.
He does it for pudgies.
And so like, if you, if you put your expectations, like how does this like as a game, like push
web three gaming forward?
Okay. It's not really that much. It not necessarily disappointing but it's whatever man but in terms for pudgy like
luca does like he does these very deliberate steps where they execute it very well right and so when
you develop a clone the biggest thing about developing your clone is is that like all the
specs are there
so you don't really need a prototype you don't need to figure things out you don't need to figure
out values you literally can have that there and in game development original game development
like figuring out how things are balanced to get to fun is really really difficult but you know like
the game itself like fall guys or these kind of party games like it
really gets old fast but does it work for their brand and does it make the pudgy penguins even
look cuter and and bring in that crowd absolutely and so for their business strategy and how they
execute like really fantastic for us as gamers or the web3 industry, you know, it's really a nothing burger.
It's pretty crazy, actually, that we have essentially nothing but original IPs on the panel here. We've got Koji with like four of them. We've got Michael O'Connor with two of
them between Worlds and the Agents. We've got Kevin Lambert taking a blend of a few different
card games with a very original thing with old CC0 stuff. I want to go to Michael O'Connor next.
Michael, how do you think about how Pudgy with this sort of established ip but still pretty nascent ip should approach
the video game market uh yeah i'm a fan of of what they're doing over there um
uh have been for a long time i really like luca as a person and um yeah i wish them well um i think here it's an uphill struggle to be honest
with you um i think they're gonna have some difficulties it's it's a tough marketplace
that's a tough one you know if you're going up against fall guys you're going up against epic
games um the alternative is like you know there's also clones out there like you know it's probably
one of the most like a really successful one of the most really successful clones was stumble guys
which was um a scopely uh a game which is a scopely game it still does amazingly well
like scopely are massive they just you know they bought neantic the the creators of pokemon go recently enough um so you're going up against like serious like uh cornerstone heavyweights in the games industry
um so i think it's a tough one i think it's a tough one you're going to be trying to take the
pie from them um there is a way to do it you know there's always a way to do it um but yeah we see a lot of these
things in in in crypto games um most of the time they don't really work out um so yeah i'm skeptical
um unfortunately um with that said i do hold out a bit of hope because i think it's been said
already by a few of the other speakers like like Mythical are also a great team. And if anyone's going to take a pot shot at this,
you know, these are the guys to do it inside of Web3.
I think it's clever on a branding perspective as well.
So there's some positives here,
but it's, yeah, that's going to be a tough note to crack, frankly.
But all the best.
I'm going to Jerry next. Jerry, you
disappointed or delighted to see these
guys try to take a stab at a
derivative here?
Honestly, I'm indifferent.
If you're going to put a gun to
my head and I had to choose, I would
lean to being...
What's the positive
one? Sorry. My brain just melted delighted okay
sorry my brain just absolutely died in real time I apologize I'd be slightly more delighted um than
disappointed but like I think what everybody's saying is it just really holds up right like
you're in a genre where like are you you able to out-compete Fall Guys?
That's going to be hard to do, right?
Fall Guys is definitely like not,
it's definitely like in the latter half of its life cycle,
but like you also, can you out-compete Scopely?
Also Asia has their own version of this,
which is a game called Eggie Party by NetEase.
Like, so can you out-compete in Asia?
Like not really, right?
So I think it's just,
there's the downsides is that you're in a crowding place where people kind of like what they like. And I don't know that a newcomer is going to be something that's exciting.
The positive is mythical understands how to get this game in front of people. So like,
is there content innovation? I don't think really very
much so. But is there potential distribution innovation for like web three? I think maybe
that's the upside here. So I think in that way, you're a little bit delighted. But like,
that still goes back to the point of, like, you're building a game with an IP that kind of leans
towards a younger audience in a genre that's catered to a younger audience.
Like, none of my...
Like, Knock is not going to all-night this game, right?
He's going to go just play Oblivion or RuneScape or whatever.
So, like, does it do anything to move the Web3 needle?
So can it, like...
I think Highest Upside expands the IP a little bit,
maybe makes the pudgy team, like, some money,
maybe makes Mythical money, which is a good thing, you know?
Like, I'm not going to say it's a bad thing, because that means
they can take more shots. But like, unless they can totally do something new with a genre that
like platform VR is kind of feels a little bit stale at this point to me, and also just super
crowded. Like, you know, I like that they're trying. Hopefully, you know, I think the optimist in me would say,
I hope they can take this and iterate, like, to get something new.
But is this a needle mover?
Like, my gut tells me it's not going to be that exciting.
Or, you know, we're not going to look at this as, like, this transformative moment.
I wonder if part of this is about the genre in particular that they picked.
Because people seem excited about Goblin Town approaching that like up only genre, whatever we call that.
But it seems less enthusiastic about this one, maybe because the genre is a little bit older and we have multiple derivatives of it already.
Let's go to Koji. Koji, what do you think? Disappointed or delighted to see Pudgy taking this wing?
I'm delighted, man. Just like I know I don't come off as like an optimist but I I truly am
an optimist especially when it comes to this sort of thing because you know when before we started
the amount of people who would have just said like oh I can't believe they're making a card game
you know like who wants another card game or or whatever like you got to take some chances and
who knows maybe they're maybe it will just be a completely derivative
but maybe not maybe they're going to do something interesting that's going to capture
some of the zeitgeist and i you know i'm just hopeful that like i think you can take something
that's been done you know even a thousand times before put an interesting twist on it that you
know only you can come up with and then it will be new and interesting again so i'm i'm i'm gonna say delighted until uh i i play it and
are proven otherwise or not yeah coaching actually said something that's like kind of interesting
there and i think like if this is totally derivative hey don't sound so surprised jerry
sorry um but like were we not all the same people who were like really excited about lol land
like a couple weeks ago?
And that's just a derivative, maybe more of a one-for-one reskin of a Coin Master or Monopoly Go.
So I don't know, Sam, whatever intern you have posting these on Spotify at this point, if they could go and listen to that episode and then call people out on their hypocrisy, I would appreciate that.
I would appreciate that.
Yeah, you know, fair enough.
Yeah, fair enough.
But at the same time, I think part of it is the Monopoly Go model, I don't think has really
been replicated to any level of success.
But if it is, you'd imagine even if it's 20% as successful, that's like a $400 million
a year revenue generating game, which I don't know if all guys ever got close to.
However, well, actually, it probably got close to $400 million, but I don't think it's necessarily the cash cow that Monopoly Go is and not able to sustain it over a longer
period of time. Let's go over to Will's double tag and Kevin Lambert.
Yeah, I think most of what I was going to say has already been said, but I mean,
in my heart of hearts, I disappointed uh because you know it's always
frustrating when an opportunity for innovation is missed and obviously we haven't seen it
um but i will say i was playing mario party a couple of weeks ago and they added in a fall
guys bit and it was the most it was the worst bit of the game so i think fall guys is it's kind of played out like i mean is anyone really competing
in the fall guys space i i don't see it maybe yeah stumble guys stumble guys yeah okay but that's just
like okay that's on mobile and that's doing like what are people like still actively playing that
is that like a super hype thing?
And is that even the market that they're trying to cater to?
Because I like my understanding of what Luca is trying to do
and where I think that this might be delightful
is they're providing further experiences for the IP.
And I think that that's always a good thing with Lowland,
with what they were doing, even with their, what was it?
They had an arcade machine that they were doing. even with their, what was it they had an arcade
machine that they were doing. It's all providing value back to the IP. And in that sense, I
think it's great. I think it's another fun thing to do to get screenshots of and to get
clips of the pudgy penguins doing funny, silly little things, you know, we'll get some new
gifts out of it and the IP of pudgy will be grown and you know ideally that derives value
back to the nfts in a in an ideal world so you know i'm a mix of things no you know i i think
will has convinced me i take my answer i rescind my answer of being slightly delighted and i'm
fucking all in because we we led the show with Elder Scrolls Oblivion,
which was a game from 2006 being the thing
that people are most excited about in all of games in 2025.
So people don't want new shit.
It's just me.
I'm the fool that wants new shit,
and then the rest of the world is telling me
that nobody wants new things.
They just want the same thing that just looks a little bit nicer.
So I take it back, Sam. I apologize.
I'm all in. Super
delighted. Life is great if you
enjoy this long.
Slightly all in.
It's great to have Jerry fully
fucking delighted for this topic.
I appreciate that. Consider me, I guess,
the only fool left who still wants new shit.
Let's go to Kevin Lambert. Knock
and then we'll tag in Sinjin again. Yeah, I'll probably be a little repeat coming in so late on this but like
so i'm delighted um i think it's great i think going after uh an existing genre especially when
you put your own spin on it which may not be the case here but in general is really cool like
look do you guys remember a game from way back in the day called Worms
where you just sort of launch your worm
and it would break stuff on the opponent's side of the board
and you try to break all their stuff
before they break all your stuff?
That's basically Angry Birds.
But when Angry Birds did their take on it,
it was refreshing, it was fun, it was awesome.
So when you take something like that
and you evolve little pieces of it in your IP, it can really, you know, take the world by storm. So I'm delighted that they're trying. I hope they evolve more stuff. And it's a good genre. Like, you know, it's a good one to, it's a good mix with Web3. It's got that casually competitive short session nature. And it's a good fit for the market as well my opinion does anybody
else think that's a wild comparison angry birds feels a long ways away from worms but i if if
they iterate that much on the genre because worms was pvp it was uh very 2d angry birds kind of has
this three-dimensional thing you're kind of like playing against yourself you're trying to get a
bigger score by collapsing things instead of attacking an enemy if they iterate that much i'm super fucking delighted because it basically feels
like a new game let's go over to knock yeah this is gonna stay in the theme of what i've been saying
for the last fucking year and a half but people don't want new shit they want the same shit but
slightly different uh stumble guys party animals eggy party pummel party micro works lol beans run
royale run guys
that's just off the top of my head while everybody was discussing whether or not there's actually a
market for these types of games all of those games launched in the last five years since
since fall guys launched there's very clearly a market here and the biggest differentiator between
all of those titles falls into one of two categories the ip that they have available to
them so whose rights
do you get do you did you get the the group from looney tunes like stumble guys or did you get
patrick and spongebob uh like fall guys did and what game modes do you have both of those are
easy enough to iterate on both of those are easy ways to differentiate yourselves you have an ip
that is literally the fucking shape of the thing in this game. Like Pudgy is a perfect one-to-one equation
for the fucking Mighty Beans that you see in Fall Guys.
It makes a ton of sense to me.
The IP lines up well.
There's plenty of other cute Web3 native IP
that is looking for something to be a part of.
To me, this feels like it makes a ton of sense.
The audience is young.
You're creating a party game.
There's very clearly an appetite for this globally.
This panel skews like 15 years to 20 years older than the target demographic for these types of games for sure. But that doesn't mean that people aren't playing it, right? There's
plenty of people who play these types of games. They've got an opportunity to differentiate
themselves with the IP that they bring in. Pudgy's a strong IP. They're big on Instagram. They have a
TikTok. Young kids will likely have
seen pudgy penguins somewhere it's even in fucking giphy like you can the brand they've done an
excellent job of proliferating this brand and they're starting to do it now with more and more
game titles they have a featured board in lowland they're gonna have a clone here in pudgy party
to me this makes a ton of sense luca has very clearly demonstrated that the goal with Pudgy Penguins is not to create the next world beater game that goes up against Fortnite and 100 million people are playing it, but to give you 100 different fun little ways that you can interact with Pudgy IP.
the intention. This is another like three or four steps in the right direction here. And again,
we've demonstrated that there is appetite for these types of games. And the differentiator
is something that they have that is pretty strong from like a Web3 native audience that is starting
to leak into the Web2 world. My mom is sending me pudgy gifts, which is fucking crazy, but
that's happening. So this makes sense. It's low stakes. It's relatively low barrier to entry.
It's pretty easy to differentiate yourself if you've got a better ip and better levels these are all things that
they can work on and people still play these games i'm delighted i see with a gamified first
dropping an executive summary in the chat just to dump a dungeon oh my god dunk on fresco jesus as
i have a stroke also justin lucas in the comments says licensing your IP is lucrative. Do we think that Pudgy is maybe getting paid to license this IP? I would have assumed this was like a mutual benefit thing. I didn't think it was that far along that developed to get to the point of licensing and being profitable. Let's go to Stingin and then Michael O o'connor then to dub to finish us up on this topic
yeah i'll be quick i think uh knock has some really great points as well as wills in the sense
that like luca has always been playing the the brand ip value game right so it's it's basically
getting that brand out there with the small wins that are really well executed uh whether it's the
arcade or or this particular game and i executed uh whether it's the arcade or or
this particular game and i would say definitely it's not for the expectation to be a game it's
just a win but i want to say on the on the thing is like if you're competing on a game level uh
right into the web 2 market i think if you don't have an original game um and you you know obviously
you're not like a studio that has access to third-party ips or
um you know previous titles right you have to be really original because it's that competitive
you know if you look at how many games are being launched on steam every year and stuff like that
right and people can say okay well these games are like pretty good and they're like derivative
games or they're somewhat original and they're still not making it and then that even would for me says you know you really got to press the limits for
Luca it's not like that um so again you know it's Luca's world we're kind of like observing what
he's doing and we're trying to like pick at it and say like okay well here's the crossover with
the games but like I think Knox and Will's point was really spot on. Michael O'Connor, do you agree?
I actually do agree there.
Yeah.
Um, I have a question.
Do we know yet if it, uh, if they've kind of spoken about platform, is it
mobile or is it going to be PC or has that been, uh, has that information
been leaked or is it out?
I mean, I think, I think mythical only really does mobile.
Right.
That's what I thought.
So, yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah. I was just saying they had announced it was going to be mobile.
And this is where Mike, like mentioned earlier,
like Luca had said, like,
we're going to release crypto as like number one mobile game.
And that's where I'm like, that's a, that's a big statement, right?
Yeah, it is. It certainly is. Like, like, you know, the thing is with mobile in when you've got a genre that's,
that's kind of that
has matured to a certain extent like like that has over the last decade um or particularly over
the last five years the only like in some sense quality sometimes doesn't really matter you need
a juicy fucking user acquisition budget in order to be able to make like just to compete against
a scopely you just need a serious user
acquisition budget now like sometimes that's not okay sometimes you can just like you know there
is a this is a very small percentage of a chance that you just make something great that just
breaks through on mobile and like everyone loves to talk about that but like 99 of the time that's
not the case you know and so you you normally need that massive budget for success there.
You know, do they have that?
I don't know, maybe they do.
Either way, though, just to touch,
like double click on Will's point,
I think, Will, you made a really, like,
perceptive point there that actually,
if there's only limited success
in the kind of global games market,
that could actually be seriously valuable from a branding perspective for Pudgy.
You know, like, you know, Luca is like a master marketer.
And being able to get that game out there with like nice branding,
with the right type of audience, will generate huge amounts of attention,
specifically probably like even if it doesn't crack through into like massive like success in the gaming, branding with the right type of audience will generate huge amounts of attention, specifically
probably, like even if it doesn't crack through into like massive like success in the gaming
world, it could raise a lot of eyebrows in the crypto world.
And that could be very beneficial from a branding perspective, identity perspective.
And ultimately, you can create a lot more value for them in terms of people who are
interested in buying into what they're selling broadly.
Let's go to Dub and knock then we're
going to move on yeah i just wanted to point out on the licensing like ip side of things
with these like hundreds of different experiences luke and the team has like
made sure that licensing and ip flows to holders and they've always had these opportunities for holders to essentially submit their pudgies or little pudgies into these games or experiences and secure that IP licensing deal specifically for their pudgie, which I think is going to be a great narrative as this rolls out.
My pudgy starts getting used because so far, despite having hundreds, it's not in a single one.
That kind of breaks my heart.
So we'll get there.
But I think that's a really interesting narrative to go forward as this grows to.
Knock the final word.
Yeah, Michael actually kind of front-run me a little bit here.
But I think one of the important things to understand is this isn't a quality thing.
We had mentions of they have to compete in quality.
If you've ever played StumbleGuys, it's like somebody developed FallGuys with their fucking
eyes closed.
The game barely works.
Mechanics are terrible.
Almost every single fucking level just is awful.
It's just a terrible experience.
But they did an excellent job of putting it through the Scopely machine.
And that's where I think the edge is in the case of somebody like pudgy penguins this might be another piece of fan service to kind
of build up an audience that cares about this brand and will become very vocal about supporting
and sharing this brand long term like to me i would not be surprised if in the next two or three years
there's like five or ten more games that are very bite-sized pieces like this,
a clone of something that exists
that has demonstrated, you know,
use and want from like the actual gaming market,
as well as like fucking Pudgy Penguin lunchboxes
and hats and backpacks and all kinds of shit.
Like the idea here for this brand,
Luca just released a podcast
where he kind of walks through this,
but it's to make sure that anywhere you look,
Pudgy Penguins is made available. That's part of the way that you do this. It's also a highly social streamable and
shareable game. Fall Guys, when it came out, was fucking everywhere. And if you start to see clips
like this leak into TikTok or into Instagram, that's more surface area for the Pudgy IP with
an audience that isn't native to crypto. I think that's the bet that they're taking here. They
don't necessarily need to be the biggest game in the world,
but if you can have a whole bunch of, you know,
millions of views on TikTok of pudgy IP in a Fall Guys type scenario,
that's a big win for them as well.
That's the answer there, Nock, is that, like, you know,
is this a, like, I almost think this is,
you need to look at this with like a brand marketing perspective
rather than like revenue or anything like the play is pretty obvious that it's like get the ip in
front of everybody in as many ways as possible particularly like young people but like get that
ip to where it is a known ip so like i think even if this game is a loss leader, it doesn't really matter because it's getting the IP out there.
So like what Nox said, I think is like the main point of what's happening here is that like, this is 1000% a play to just make this IP get beyond the bubble that it currently exists in, where it's like everybody in crypto knows it.
But outside of that, it's still kind of nascent like you said sam so this is a move to get people at scale kind of more familiar
with it and have seeing these like cute penguins running around or whatever so i mean i think that
that's like the main takeaway people should have is everything that nox said spot on we're also
seeing new clipping features roll out for abstract streaming and obviously abstract streaming being a
big piece of the entire puzzle over there.
So it all kind of makes sense whenever you look at it more holistically.
We're moving on though.
Bullish or bearish on Pixels integrating app tokens into their ecosystem.
App tokens are limit breaks technology that they rolled out a few months ago.
You probably see Gabe Layden posting about it and some other founders talking about whether
or not they like it conceptually.
VPixel will be a new token that's backed one-to-one by Pixel, their current pre-existing token, and can only be used to stake or spend in-game, including partner games.
Pixel is integrated into, like, Forgotten Runiverse.
They'll also be increasing the withdrawal fees for Pixel to further incentivize using the app token instead. Luke notes that it may cause some short-term pain, but for long-term positive effects for the ecosystem.
being an ERC-20C, and is it worth it?
Or would you, I'm sorry, would you, Jesus Christ,
would you have the main token be an ERC-20C?
Is it worth it?
Or would you keep the two systems like Pixel and VPixel?
Luke replied, he actually thinks the dual system
is more interesting, and people basically get the choice
of a more liquid option or the spend slash stake option instead.
So you bullish or bearish on app tokens in general,
and Pixels move into integrating app tokens because i know that people's opinions have evolved here a lot uh sinjin with the hand up first yeah i'm super bullish on it um you know
actually gabe uh messaged me about and we had like a quick talk about it um and you know, if you think about like what, um, what the problem with the gaming
tokens or tokens in general is right.
It's just too much volatility.
And then if you add them to like a game setting, right.
If that is your incentive mechanism, right.
And you have like very little control over it.
Um, you know, basically no one really wants to play your game, especially if it's not
a super hit game because of the incentive, you know, value drops, then you're kind of screwed.
And app token can be a really, really powerful tool.
I wouldn't go so far as what Gabe has been saying in the sense that, you know, basically, you know, if you program in all the kind of guidelines here, then it's, it's not about like speculation any longer.
guidelines here, then it's not about like speculation any longer. Obviously, you know,
it's really driven by the game itself. But one point that he had made, and I do agree with this,
is for the most part, in crypto, the biggest tool that you can use to kind of kick the can down the
road or manage your existing like liquidity supply or oversupply is staking and so um the
way that they've set it up is that you know you're staking your pixels now but like you can't
withdraw those staking uh rewards until you're spending the the v pixels and the and the v
pixels are kind of pushing that forward i think that's the understanding at least that I have. And so he had mentioned this as well, like it's almost like stake and play to earn.
Um, and I think with Luke, um, he definitely is in that play to earn buckets still.
And you know, he's doing his very, very best to kind of figure things out from what I can
see and for him to take the step forward, I think it's a very bullish for them.
And I think it also opens up a single use case a clear like case study for the rest of the game developers out
there i'm thinking about it as well i'm thinking about it for like the last couple of months
um but like in terms of like where it can go and evolve from here let's see but i think it
really depends on you know obviously the game and how you design it and
so that's where the a lot of intellectual investment is going to be required for the
app token but if you think about it if you can really um how do i say like gamify or augment
the staking function within the game or in user behavior and and staking is really one of the super major tools for managing liquidity in the short term it's pretty fantastic
love that take let's go to michael o'connor then we'll tag in koji
i also love some ginsec and yeah i think this is great i think this is fantastic news app tokens
are really really interesting and what they're what they're doing is offering a new suite of tools
to people building games on-chain.
And some of those tools kind of are solving some issues, I think.
There's some just very functional things that are cool.
There's this vibe where you're able to...
You've got tokens which can exist off-chain vibe where you're able to um you've got tokens which can
exist off chain but they're able to operate off they're on chain but they can operate off chains
for fast interactions and that's pretty cool it means that you can kind of just lower friction
for on-chain transactions for kind of more menial kind of on-chain tasks, which I think is cool. But it's solving some, potentially solving anyway,
some interesting economic issues that people have inside of
when they're building games on-chain.
And, you know, when Gabe put out the 721C contracts of the NFT,
they released NFT contracts, which guaranteed royalties, essentially,
what's one of the things that it was doing.
And they became pretty much the de facto contract that most people are using
with magic Eden were the first people to take them on eventually open C took
on seven 21 C and like this kind of in some way destroyed blur,
which was like a, you know, um, uh, very kind of like, suppose anti-royalty uh uh company for nfts
um and i think that we're probably going to see something similar here i think we're going to see
like a lot of people probably myself included take on apt tokens um because it is useful
it is useful so it's great to see that like a game that's out there
that's been doing good numbers and you know looks cool has is already jumping in um you know gabe is
an interesting character for the industry um successful dude has done some amazing shit and
um i like them um i think uh they raised at a like a different value like they're building a
different thing to what most people are building inside of games you know they're like at least
like 100 million or something like that or like they raised that like i'm like a more than a
billion dollar valuation so it's it's not just about almost two billion right it raised like 200
million yeah so it's not for them it's not just about okay here we're going to make some like really successful games and like trying to crack into you know the free
to pay industry or something like that they're looking to make something that like that's totally
disruptive um and that's and that's really what app tokens is is part of that vision i believe
it's it's it's they're trying to create something that is an infrastructural tool that's totally
disruptive and ultimately in this case is something that is an infrastructural tool that's totally disruptive. And ultimately, in this case, it's something that enables developers
to do new, cool things and solves problems.
So, yeah, all power to them.
I'm happy to see this.
You and me both, brother.
We'd love to see it work out, especially with Synjin speaking
to how difficult it is to have these in-game economies.
If we have more tools to sort of modify them as we go
and Pixels is able to make something sustainable as it goes,
it would be awesome to see.
Koji, what are your thoughts on Pixels integrating vPixel?
Yeah, I'm bullish on it too for a multitude of reasons.
One, I think never discount Gabe Layton.
The guy is a mad genius.
I also recently or semi-re semi recently had a discussion with him uh and he completely opened my eyes on a lot of things um i think that
what he's trying to do is uh revolutionary and even even if you're not uh that into the ideas
if nothing else it's another tool in a tool chest uh another you know lever to to play
with and i think it gives you more options but as far as like this particular implementation from
what i understand obviously don't quote me i'm like you know i'm basically the guy that reads
the headline not the article but from what i understand uh you know um as singin explained
you know you stake you you get you get these tokens and you have to like use them to sort of get yield and be able to like earn more of the original token or whatever, something along those lines.
But to me, it sounded very much like the system in which, and Sinjin will know a lot about this, obviously, the system in which like online casinos use and say, OK, you deposit five hundred dollars we'll give you five hundred dollars right but like they don't just give you
five hundred dollars you actually have to like place those bets and do stuff with it and operate
within the ecosystem for you know set amount of time and a set amount of bets and set amount of
whatever in order to even like scratch the surface of the the quote- quote unquote free money that they give you. And so I think that like this enabling that sort of functionality in games,
you know, can only be positive for the game if they design it correctly.
It just means you've got to design it correctly.
But yeah, I'm a big fan of seeing how this works.
And I think that like with this new tech,
someone's got to implement it and be the sort of the test bed
and prove to us all how implement it and be the sort of the test bed and and prove to us all uh how
valuable it can be and i think that pixels you know that's like if they can do it uh i think a
lot of people are going to be flocking uh towards towards it so yeah sorry i lost the hands there
for a second let's go to uh lens then we'll tag in kevin lambert yeah i'm bullish on
this one i think it's really interesting because gabe's been like we've all seen if you follow him
on twitter like yelling about why erc20 tokens are broken a lot and i think for him and his games he's
probably going to exclusively do erc or erc 20c um probably just based on what he said i think with
pixel system the hybrid is very very
interesting because luke wants to leave both options and then they're doing a fee if you want
to withdraw your pixel from the game basically so if you're just going to use vpixel and use it in
the game or you're going to stake it you're basically getting more bang for your buck so
they're rewarding the people who want to stay in the ecosystem more and then he said they're changing
their staking as well so it seems like what koji was alluding to there on the casino side,
where if you're interacting with the ecosystem more,
you're going to get more staking rewards.
And again, if you keep that in the pixel, you're going to maximize it.
But you still have the option to off-ramp it,
and you can sell it if you withdraw from the game,
but you're going to have to pay a fee to do that.
And then they feed those fees back to the stakers.
So I think it's very interesting. And we've seen like pixels is probably you know one of the most successful web
three games so far in terms of revenue and you know trying to make this play to earn model
more sustainable obviously they've been giving out lots of rewards and they haven't quite balanced
up the like intake versus outtake yet but it seems like every iteration they're getting better and
better with it and they have an economy that people want to spend money in. So I think this is a pretty massive test case for the rest of the sector because they're all doing this dual system as opposed to exclusively saying like, hey, you can use app tokens, which basically sounds like to me, if you have them exclusively, it's just like a new kind of in-game currency because you're not going to be able to withdraw.
It's only like money going in, depending on what rules you set up with them i see with a great comedy because it seems like
this would be a make or break shift for pixels seems like the reward reward design was great
to bring people into the game but wasn't long-term sustainable and now they're fundamentally changing
their incentive structure we'll have to see if the existing player base stay and embrace this
change if so then great but if not they'll have to figure it out let's go to kevin lambert then to jerry i'm super bullish on this
in general um what not from the perspective of like what's it going to do for pixels
i mean i'm also excited to see that but more can we get more applications under the belt of using app tokens right because as these as so
many technology pieces in web3 move from like promising to potential to proven this is one of
those moments where we might see this move from potential to proven in this case and you know and
like koji said after talking to gabe he you know um he lit up with ideas of the applications of these.
I think just reading the AppToken's article can only give so much surface area, and it's kind of geeky.
So seeing actual applications is going to be great for everyone, and I can't wait to see more and more people try those.
We're looking into them as well.
Awesome to hear. Jerryerry then to knock uh yeah uh
bullish i think is it what's the game mode i don't know about bullish it's uh yeah it's uh
i think like listen i'll be quick with my thoughts here because like they're not super complex but
like i think app tokens are fascinating i think what you're hearing is a consistent thing that everybody that talked to
Gabe of which I did as well at GDC that walked away, walked away kind of
fundamentally thinking differently about how we can use tokens and what we can do
with the technology that's like in front of us.
Right.
So, um, I think gaming and like web three faces, like this critical problem of people want to get tokens and then not do anything with them until they want to sell them.
And like that's a fundamental problem.
Like you can put every sink and faucet and all these fucking bullshit words that we come and talk about like in a game, which games do need.
But people do not want to spend their tokens on the games like by and large.
do not want to spend their tokens on the games, like by and large, right? So I think anything
that is going to incentivize people to actually like, put velocity of money into a game and
transactions of tokens within a game, I think you have to kind of look at with a lot of intrigue
and interest. And you know, it sounds like this is a potential first shot at something like this.
I also think like, with a new party coming in and using app tokens
was probably handpicked by Gabe or probably he worked very closely on getting, you know,
proper implementations of this so that there is a great first success case. So I think if you're
somebody who does look at Gabe as like a mad genius, look at this as a strategic move to
get a good test case.
And then if it goes well,
every single person that you're talking to,
every single person on this panel will implement them in their game in some
way. So yeah, I think, you know, I'm super interested and excited here.
Good take there. Knock over to you for the last word.
Yeah, bear with me here. Cause I'm going to get a little on the weeds,
but I'm going to deliver it in a relatively smooth brain, unga bunga manner because it's a little over the top of my head as well.
I'll say this, Gabe absolutely is a mad genius.
We've seen 721C capture a ton of attention and frankly, a ton of integration across marketplaces.
Creators are using it.
People are excited about what happens there.
I think 20C, I was originally
a skeptic. I still am to a light degree, but I think there's plenty of really interesting
applications that might come out of this. I was not lucky enough to speak to Gabe at GDC,
but I spoke to Amit from Pirate Nation, Proof of Play, and he kind of walked me through the way
that he plans or their perspective plans for how a 20C token might be something that represents more than just the fungible asset in the sense of like a V pixel, right?
It might be an item in game.
There's plenty of really interesting applications for 20C.
I think the entire C standard is a bit of a paradox.
And if somebody is going to be able to navigate it, it'll be Gabe and that team at Limit Break because they're incredibly intelligent. But the paradox is pretty simple.
And it goes back to the original conversation around royalty enforcement. Early on, royalty
enforcement from like a, I'm talking specifically about 721C, was really just a social contract,
right? We made a couple of agreements, hey, marketplaces will enforce it on the front end,
creators will get their royalties, consumers will pay it. Then a marketplace called YAH comes around and they said, well, this is a social contract.
It's not actually enforceable.
So what if we just bypass that social agreement and now you can make purchases on YAH without
paying royalties?
And what happened was consumer behavior shifted to where the price of that asset was the cheapest,
which was YAH.
And then very quickly, a couple of other marketplaces went royalty optional or no royalties at all.
And then Blur took off.
And then you had marketplaces like Magic Eden and OpenSea who had to make a decision.
Do we compete with the royalty enforcement?
By nature, we will have higher prices on the assets that are available.
Or do we open up and go optional royalty?
We know how that
story sort of plays out. In comes a bunch of standards. Solana has their own. ERC-721C allows
to enforce royalties on-chain. Well, we're at another moment that is going to be pretty pivotal,
that it's going to affect both ERC-20C, which is the token standard app tokens that we're talking
about, and 721C, which is the NFT standard, with EIP- 7702, which, if I had to place the downstream effects on all EVM-based blockchains.
And effectively, you can sort of simulate a marketplace transaction, but it'll happen on
chain. It'll look like an OTC deal, so a peer-to-peer just sending an asset. And the 721C
smart contract doesn't really have a way to identify what's actually happening. So in theory,
in a few weeks, you're going to see something like the
7702 marketplace open up that side that decides and says hey we're no longer
going to enforce it that's the paradox right NFTs are meant to be this thing
that you own entirely but if you own it entirely can somebody else then say we
own a piece of it and you're gonna own you're gonna owe us things if you want
to build an open economy with on-chain tokens can it really be an open economy if so many parts of the economy are restricted? If I can't actually choose what to
do with my asset, if I have to pay fees to withdraw, or if I can't withdraw at all? I think
the technology is incredibly compelling. I think it's one of the best innovations to standards that
we've seen in blockchain over the course of the last three or four years. But I also think that
there are a lot of challenges
for the team at Limitbreak to sort of navigate.
They have to navigate both whether or not
this is going to see a ton of integration
beyond like third-party marketplaces,
indexes and sexes and whatnot.
But more importantly, will things like EIP 7702,
which a lot of people do believe will have an effect,
actually have that effect?
I'm excited about the technology.
I want to see teams get more creative with it beyond simply, hey, this is a royalty enforcement
tool or, hey, we're going to limit the volatility of this particular asset.
And I've spoken to a ton of builders who have really interesting ways to integrate the technology.
And I think you're going to see teams like Pixel succeed.
You'll probably see something interesting out of the guys at Proof of Play based on my conversation with Amit.
But I think that there are ecosystem level challenges that might affect how widely this is integrated, at least in the short term.
Again, if somebody can navigate it and find a solution, I think Gabe and Limitbreak are the team to figure out how to navigate these waters.
But you are beholden a little bit to
what's happening at a foundational level with ethereum i do think this is interesting we have
two more hands but it is a bit dry and i am excited to get to some other spicy stuff that
might bring some energy back let's go to michael o'connor real quick and singin 30 seconds each
then we're going to move on yeah Yeah, it doesn't matter that.
You know, I was just kind of interested in Nock's point there about like, you know, just how 721C actually was released about a year ago
and kind of reshaped aspects of the NFT industry.
And Magic Eden was one of the kind of really leading figures in supporting that.
that and i'm interested to kind of with that context what this might what what what um you
And I'm interested to kind of, with that context,
know what what might happen now from from uh nox perspective but um yeah but listen yeah we can just
do it we can just jump on it's uh you know i could keep talking about this forever you know
we'll have to double back for the app token mega space engine for you
yeah i'll try to be quick but uh you know just to say that um i
think uh gabe you know i think you guys are all peons most of us even on the panel and sometimes
i'm a peon too but you know gabe thinks we're all ultra peons and so for him it's like so obvious
why this needs to be done but like in in terms of just like really quick point for the nfts like
when there's no royalties it's like kind of happening like no rake poker.
Like people are like,
oh, why do we even take any rake at all?
And so there were these no rake poker sites
that were opened up and they all failed
because people realize if you don't take rake in poker,
right, like a commission fee,
then how are you ever going to acquire players?
And so you destroy the value of NFTs
actually when you take no royalties at all
because it destroys the actual creator incentives like the actual runway i just want to make that
one point the other issue is like kevin mentioned this a bit is that like the app token difficulty
here is that it has to be applied to the game economy so in the case with uh pixels they have
their game economy they know what's kind of broken They have their model and it's based off staking.
So like they have an application for it, but the other applications are like a stop
loss range, like, you know, 10 or 20% up or down pool specific pool pairings.
And it, it will really depend where it really starts to get adoption is that when we see
the problems that we're facing as game developers in open economy, where it's like the revenues
or the oversupply or the price range. And then I think that's where it's going to start to really be
applied. I think for Gabe, he sees it all already and we're all idiots, including myself, but you
know, you know, again, I'm very bullish on this and I think it is really, really necessary if you
want to think about sustainability. So are you saying that pixels can iterate on an open economy
fuckhead? No, they can't.
And that's why they're like fucking scrambling like a
motherfucker. Because I don't think like
staking's enough.
I think they're fucked anyway.
That was an all
time quote. I completely forgot about
that quote, but I'm so happy
that we were just reminded of that.
It's still very true.
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You gutless wanks out there in the audience are got to get ready for this next topic because
we're talking about Ubisoft again. Big deal, little deal, no deal. Their latest Web3 game is coming to Immutable.
They're building a TCG with Might and Magic intellectual property. Not everyone has heard
of Might and Magic to my chagrin, but in the 90s and early 2000s, it was quite popular.
Robbie Ferguson, CEO at Immutable, of course, was pretty hyped, saying this is the biggest thing they've done with Ubisoft since they partnered with them two years ago.
But the thing is, the IP was just never a TCG to begin with, and this is receiving some mixed feelings.
They're resurrecting the IP, but not really honoring the IP potentially.
We'll have to see what form it really takes at the end of the day.
But big deal, little deal, no deal for Ubisoft building a Might and Magic TCG on Immutable.
I think Koji or Spang had the hand up first.
Let's go to Koji then, Spang.
I mean, it's a big deal in my heart
because both Might and Magic and Heroes of Might and Magic,
Heroes is also getting a sequel,
are an IP that is ingrained in my being.
So I'm super excited about it.
Overall, it's somewhere between, you know,
I'm going to say a little deal
because we've heard rumblings of things like this
happening in the past.
Hopefully, you know, one of the big boy studios
actually like fully embraces the Web3 space
and it will be a big deal.
But I will say cautiously optimistic,
just because fool me once, shame on me,
fool me twice, won't get fooled again.
Let's hope they don't fool us too many times with this one.
Spang, over to you.
Yeah, I think this is really interesting uh for for a few reasons i've
never actually played the might and magic games the only reason i know about might and magic
is from this hilarious youtube channel who does some of the funniest reviews although they're a
little edgy um his name's seth tientak and he reviews games from the old and olden days like you know back
when back when basically on this everyone on this panel was you know gaming full-time um and it's i
think it's a really interesting approach to go after an old ip like this uh because it it kind
of hits that nice middle ground of you know pulling in people who may not necessarily be
full-time gamers anymore or have stepped away from you know the grind as it were and gives them an
opportunity to play something on their phones without you know the worry that they're already
entrenched in you know any certain kind of ways of interacting with games. And that opens up a lot of really interesting opportunities
for what you can do with that game.
And I think that, you know,
IPs and card games,
I am a huge fan of
because I am one of the last living fans
of Elder Scrolls Legends,
which was the failed Elder Scrolls card game
that I played the absolute shit out of.
And I loved it because it had all of the
lore. It had all of the characters that you couldn't talk about in the mainline games or
weren't worth putting into a reference to. And from what I understand about the Might and Magic
universe, it's insane. The lore is crazy. There's like aliens and robots and might and magic and all of that good stuff.
So I think I'm
I think it was a big deal, little deal, no deal
I think it's a big deal and I'm bullish
and it's delightful just to
cover my bases.
Alright, let's go over to Jerry.
Jerry, big deal, little deal, no deal
Ubisoft letting Immutable
get their hands on might and magic and then turning it into a TCG. Yeah, I mean, I deal, no deal. Ubisoft letting Immutable get their hands on Might and Magic
and them turning it into a TCG.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, dude.
I guess a little deal.
Maybe I'm just not the guy.
I don't even know what Might and Magic really even is,
other than hearing the name throughout my childhood.
So, yeah, I don't know dude it's just like
very corporate speak of having to be like this is the biggest thing we've ever done and you know
this is going to change the world it's like how many times we all hear that shit all the time and
it just like never happens so i hope it does um and i think immutable you know picked up a lot
of learnings from like launching raven quest and you you know, I think they've, they've actually been doing, doing the road work and trying to, you know,
be a meaningful partner to some of these games. So I think that's good.
But like, you know, at the end of the day, man, like Ubisoft is,
we don't know which office it is, you know, at, at any point, the,
the, the Paris office might just fucking strike, you know,
for two weeks and then come back in after not negotiating and then go on strike again.
These guys are just...
Ubisoft is not what it was when Might and Magic probably mattered.
So I think, I don't know, it's a little deal.
And something about my hero, George Bush, in a quote about fooling me twice.
Shout out to George W. Bush.
We had no idea how good we had him back then.
Let's go to Tony V.
Yeah, that was dark, Sherry.
I think it's a big deal.
Anytime an entrenched player makes a shot on goal in Web 3,
I think it's a big deal, especially if they're,
if they're going to be putting vocal effort behind it.
And I, you know, it's a hit driven business.
So I think the more shots on goal we have from serious actors in the space,
the better off we're going to be. And I don't, I don't think that there's a,
I think there's a low likelihood that like Ubisoft is just going to dissolve
before they have a chance to chance to do something with this.
And Might and Magic is a long and beloved franchise with them.
So I feel like it's going to make it to market.
And that makes me excited because I also love the, I'm an old man.
I love the IP.
I was playing Might and Magic on green screens back in the day.
And so, yeah, I think it's a big deal.
Tyrus from Immutable giving me some heads up as well.
Might and Magic Fates will launch on Ubisoft Connect,
which has 140 million monthly active users.
He also says this isn't the only Might and Magic game being launched either.
Part of the broader plan to revive the IP.
There's a YouTube link in the comments there.
Let's go over to Kevin Lambert next.
Big deal, little deal, no deal here.
Medium deal.
Can I pick that?
I guess I have to.
Yeah.
If I can pick medium deal, I'm going to pick medium deal.
Because it all depends on the gameplay.
I haven't seen it.
I looked for that.
The video didn't show much.
I think there may be some screenshots floating around around but you can't tell enough from that so there have been you know
another freaking card game you know what what's up with that who's doing that seriously no but
i think it's i think it's you know i have fond memories of might magic they have a captive
audience so when you just say hey we're gonna reach out to all our Might and Magic enjoy yours, they made a game off the main
line. I think the last Might and Magic game was 2014 or something like that, which is 11 years
ago. But they made that Might and Magic clash of heroes, which is a fun little puzzle game.
I enjoyed that game and it was just swords and sorcery and a fun game.
Right.
So I think it all comes down to how good the game is.
If the game is amazing,
it will rock and they will have immediate reach right out of the gate.
If the game is poor,
then it will be on the Island of lost games with existing IPs that they
tried to do.
Fair enough there.
The other game that Tyrus links to me looks to be a turn-based grid-style strategy game, I guess.
I'm not exactly sure what category it falls into, but it looks cool.
Might and Magic again.
Can I add just one thing that I'm finding hilarious here, Sam,
is platforms that Might and Magic have come out on, right?
You guys might know some of these.
The Amiga, the Apple II, Commodore 64, MS-DOS, NES, PlayStation 2, Genesis, Super NES,
and TurboGrafx-16, right?
So I don't know.
Like, that all tells me these are old-ass, like, platforms and operating systems. So I don't know. Maybe this all tells me these are old ass like platforms and operating
systems. So I don't know, maybe this will be cool. Maybe this will be sick that, you know,
people are getting like a modern remake of something that they loved since we haven't
had one since the old Amiga. Also, I'm quite cross with Tyrus. I'm gonna use this show to
show to say that he did not save me a jacket like i asked and my vote can be bought here tyrus
say that he did not save me a jacket like I asked and my vote can be bought here, Tyrus.
i see in the comments of the youtube video my only complaint is that it took 20 years
let's go over to michael o'connor yeah i mean guys i think we gotta celebrate these steps forward
um i see it as a step forward um so many games have been supported by immutable and and ubisoft both come in for so much shit
like ubisoft i mean i've been on chats here where we're like ubisoft's ubiquitously derided
um and immutable comes in for a lot of stick as well i mean you know for probably i don't know
one of the biggest gaming tokens maybe even the biggest i don't know um and frankly like tons of
games have been incubated and supported by those folks and they've probably loads of games been saved by by the folks in
immutable um and i mean for one i remember judio from pixelmon tell me that you know when they
were dealing with some really difficult moments after when they kind of when they when they
acquired the property and after the kind of whole shitstorm that they were dealing with in early days,
that Immutable really helped them get validity back in the space.
So I think, and credibility.
So I think that that's kind of cool.
I really wish them well.
I also know they've been putting in hard work when a broker,
you know, meaningful deals.
They've taken on everyone.
They had this approach where it's like quantity over quality.
And fair enough. You know, that was their approach.
They were like, get as many games as possible,
maybe one of them's a hit.
But behind the scenes, they've also been going out
to all the biggest studios in the world,
flying around the world, BDing it up,
trying to get people to sign deals.
And I think that them getting Ubisoft on board here
is a good step forward.
And I don't think it's just about this.
The way that these studios,
like a studio like Ubisoft doesn't think about it like oh well that's my magic that's that's the be on and end all this is the this is the tester you know if this tester works they move
to the other ip that's how the deal would be brokered there but like okay let's start with
one of these ips if that works out then we can move to the next ip so we should all wish for
success with these kind of things because it opens up the next kind of the next level up of ip you know and
who knows if this is really successful then you know maybe we see some kind of version of
assassin's creed or whatever um so yeah i wish them well and listen i have no dog in the fight
here i'm not building on immutable i've not plans to build on immutable at all or anything like that
you know but um i think we've got to celebrate these
steps forward, so big deal.
Another plug for Assassin's
Creed pinball, just want to say.
Right. I bet you
can run it on the Commodore 64.
Let's go over it.
Dust off the Amiga's voice.
Let's go to Dublin and knock.
Yeah, I hate
every point that Jerryerry has brought forward especially
as an honorary frenchman how dare you uh attack their workplace culture and efficiency even if
they have a strike they work three times as harder as anyone else in the world and just get done
um and no don't even don't Fuck you, Jerry. It's unbelievable.
These stereotypes are taking, um, they, if we got it, it's a big deal because Ubisoft
is backed up against a corner at this point.
I mean, we've seen everything that they've done in web three from the two to whatever,
however many titles they've done so far without major success.
And they need a win
and a TCG is an easy layup it's what can be done quickly and in a good complete loop where web3
makes sense and partnering up with someone else who's desperate for wins being immutable
is just great I look at I see two giant bears in the corner that are trying to get out
and be successful, and they're going to do it
together, and I'm stoked on that.
I think the product's going to be good.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it rolls out.
Knock with the last word.
Yeah, I mean,
I think that there are two ways to look at this, right?
The first is, this is a big deal.
It's another massive studio bringing
more IP into Web3. The other is, this is a big deal. It's another massive studio bringing more IP into Web3.
The other is Ubisoft is kind of acting like Oprah right now,
and everybody gets a little piece of IP.
You know, there's a Web2 saying going on,
and there's a conversation with EA,
and there are two or three implementations in Web3 today.
And, you know, some of it has been really good.
Some of it has been not so good.
I think there are a team who, to Dub's point,
clearly is doing this out of a need for necessity.
And that doesn't mean it's from a position of weakness necessarily.
Like, it seems like they want this to work.
They want to dump resources into Web3.
They're trying to find an avenue that makes sense.
So I'm super bullish on that.
But I am a little concerned about things like IP dilution
and the fact that everybody seems to be getting a piece of it right now, which to me maybe makes me a little less excited
than if it was, hey, here's a beloved franchise that we own and control.
We want to take it here because we want to experiment.
I think that that story is a little weaker when you're selling off IP in the Web2 space.
Yeah, that's...
Thank you, Noc.
I feel like I'm on the upside.
That's all they have left what are we
talking about here they have nothing else left because they just sold it to fucking ten cent
right so yeah i mean it's cool that they're trying to it's like this or fucking rayman you
know that's all we got so you know they just went through a liquidity event because they needed the
money and the cash infusion so uh you know i don't know why we're i get the the money and the cash infusion. So, you know, I don't know why we're, I get the optimism.
And I've gone full circle, and I tried to be optimistic earlier,
and I'm now just being my cynical self.
But, like, that's all they got, you know, and they're clearly hurting.
I think the future of intellectual property is going to be two distinct categories.
We're going to see the people that gate it very closely,
keep it internal, and only release things every few
years as they know it's quality and then everybody that allows people to kind of do whatever they
want with it if the price is right and we're seeing that be chipped away at over time sinjin put the
hand up i know he's fighting for his life trying to get back on the panel that he had some twitter
issues so i'll let him go after the bell yeah sorry uh yeah uh i think it's a dumbass uh whatever like whatever take
on what they're doing it's it's it's like just fucking stupid you know like the mind and magic
like whatever ip is like fucking ancient like when i was a fucking kid and like it's not like
with everybody because like you were either like a ultima guy or something like this and so like it was you know it was just it's just fucking like i have no idea what they're like gonna their
expectations on this but like you know ubisoft obviously they're like really pushing like their
new ip business like kind of division and they're kind of getting it out there but i don't see this
going fucking anywhere interesting to hear from the titan of taboo all right chatter chump inhuman is calling
us larps if we aren't playing cambria his tweet read start asking quote-unquote web3 gaming kols
how much xp they have in cambria right now the market is down nothing else is going on but a
1.2 million dollar prize pool on cambria no excuse to not be playing the current number one game in web three you can easily tell who the real gamers are so do you think we have to play every trendy web
three game to be a web three gamer or how do you define it and is inhuman a chad or a chump some
quick hands on this one i'm going to koji first i'm going to be careful what i say here but
all i'll say is at one point uh in was like, you know parallels the greatest fucking thing ever and then we're the hugest scam in the world and then it was
You know, Godzilla is like the savior of the world and then it was guns
It's like the biggest pile of shit that you could possibly imagine
although the game's still good or whatever and now it's this like
I'm not pointing a finger at him or her i i don't know
like what i would say is this is like web 3 in a nutshell man um the bandwagons are large and
there's room for everybody in web 3 and so uh this is just how she goes you know and you know
let the hype cycle continue if it wasn't this you know it was big or it was whatever people are just
gonna talk their shit pump their bags until it doesn't work out for them then they're gonna call
us all scams and then they're gonna move on to the next thing so you know whatever i've people
you got everyone on this panel chad uh fucking anyone who has the same takes as this guy chump
all right let's go to jerry jerry do you agree? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I have the same take as Koji.
It's like, there's kind of a chump take, right?
Because it's like, it's just like,
if you don't like whatever I like,
then you're a chump, you know?
Like, I'm a chump in Dub's eyes
because I made fun of French work culture, you know?
It's like, Sam, what's stopping Sam from being like,
you guys are chumps from not listening to Gamified, you fucking l it's like i feel like yeah the bandwagons are large and
there's room for everybody but they're fucking made of straw you know and they hit like one slight
gust of wind and then they fall apart you know so it's like yeah i don't know web 3 is amazing
because this is just a place of like what i like is amazing and then the moment i don't like it
it's a scam and if you don't like it, then you suck.
Like, dude, let's just stop any game from just like, that should be, instead of tier lists, every game should just tweet.
If you're not playing Gigaverse, you're a chump.
If you're not playing 77-bit, you're a chump, you know?
And hey, I'm a chump, dude.
I actually don't even really like Cambria.
So, you know, chief chump here.
Yeah.
If you're not playing ori in the blind forest
you're a chump jerry okay fantastic game let's go let's go to dub and then i'm tagging in
knock who basically plays off chain uh cambria yeah man watching this guy rage out is just like
been my uh tv that i watched for the last two years it's been fucking great
uh keep keep uh crashing out on the timeline buddy um and like no one's gonna fucking tell me
that i'm not a web3 gamer like that is absurd like i and i have i have yet to even play cambria
i haven't i don't know how to install it i don't know if it's a browser-based i don't follow the account it's not it's just a game that's not on my list of things i'm not playing
and like that's okay like we're getting to this point where it's like hey dubs a washed out fps
guy so he plays tcgs and like that's fine i'm a web3 gamer because of that still like fuck off
you know it doesn't mean that i need to be trade chasing
every top leaderboard money making opportunity and jump from ponzi to ponzi to ponzi i'm playing
dungeons of fortune by myself and i'm the last one playing it and that's how it's going to be so
you fuck off and you know you're a chump if dub's playing it, then I'm probably not playing it either.
I did play it during the blast days, and it looks like from some videos that I've watched,
it's come a very long way.
But whenever I played it during the blast days, man, there was no reason to touch it
unless you were just trying to make money.
And so for that reason, I'm out.
But it does look like it's improved a lot.
Nock, are you playing Cambria?
And is everybody else a chump or a chump here?
So I did promise that I had to play cambria during this event um so i i have played a little bit but i got distracted by dragon wilds obviously um i actually sorry guys but i actually agree
with inhuman to some degree and dub you don't count you're the fucking exception we can forgive
you you've played a hundred fucking games and it's okay that you missed the one that's fine but i think that it
kind of reminds me like the reactions to in humans post reminds me of what's happening right now with
like oscar noms so the oscars just announced a new rule where if you're a voter in a category
you have to confirm that you watched all the movies in the category and everybody lost
their fucking minds like that's that's ridiculous like i want to give my opinion without seeing
everything and i'm gonna watch that one movie and that's the one that's the best in the category
and it kind of feels like that a little bit right like if you're not talking to the founder if you
haven't talked to ben if you haven't played the game it is literally the thing that is dominating the timeline right now it's a two-week window it is not an always-on season
it has a million and a half dollar prize pool check it out you know it to me it feels like
yeah i i kind of like the the take i kind of like that i know that inhumanism abrasive and i i
disagree with a lot of his takes he and I have sidebars about shit all the time
and I don't always agree with him, but I kind of agree that like the core business of a Web3
content creator is information on things that are happening in Web3. And if you're a gaming creator,
yes, you know, maybe it'd be great if you could play them all. You can't play them all. You can
be pretty fucking close like Dub, but you should at least educate yourself
on what's happening with literally
the most actively played game
in the ecosystem right now.
A game that has a million and a half dollars
in prize pool that is entirely brought on
by player spending.
A game that has people in discords
staying up until 3, 4 a.m.
playing that game.
You have literal groups of people
who are raiding entire parts of the cambria map to like
farm favor and increase themselves on the leaderboard and there's a bunch of organic
content that is being posted because of it you should be aware of what's going on i think people
are more upset about who said this than what was said do that oscars thing is fucking wild that's for the record i am definitely more upset about
who said it than what was said i don't i think people should play this game but you know yeah
i don't know man i like ben and i like i i you know for the most part like inhuman but i i just
you know that's just you can't play everything in the world, man. You know, people got jobs and shit.
You got space of the host and like.
I think, listen, I think the spirit of what Inhuman Posted is not you should play every game.
I think that's being a little disingenuous.
The spirit of what Inhuman Posted is.
It is the hottest thing that is happening in a relatively quiet market.
And it's generated seven figures of prize pool that will be distributed back to players.
When almost nothing else is going on, you should be paying attention.
I think that's the spirit of what he said.
Not, if you're not playing every fucking game, you're a loser.
All right.
Well, he's not, knock is not Chad or Chump.
He's just a Chump enabler here.
Knock's taking in human side.
Will Spangler are you? Yeah I don't know I mean I what I think is
a really interesting question is what is a web3 gamer because if a web3 gamer is someone who's
gone around looking for every buck that they can pull out of their gaming experience and looking to make their their gaming time as
profitable as possible absolutely it's got a what was it one and a half million dollar prize pool
definitely go check that out if that's why you're here but i think a lot of people aren't here for
that specifically they're they're here for something something more some and uh okay nox not here for
anything more noc is just here to make money um but i think i don't know i i i personally haven't
played the game too much so i am purely not the person to be talking uh on on this subject i'm
just going off what i what i was reading and what i saw from, from the tweet interactions. Um, and I, can you, sorry, rephrase what you said instead of saying,
I haven't played the game much, just say I am also a chump.
Okay. There we go. Yeah. If that makes you happy, I'm a chump. Uh,
but all of the sentiment around the excitement in the particular Twitter
threads that I read happened to be around
the prize pool and making money there. And then people just posting stat boards. And if that's
what you're into, if you're into stat boards and a potential for a prize pool, and that's all you
need, great, go play it. But for, I think a lot of people, myself included, that's not enough to get me over the line.
And does that make me not a real web three gamer? Sure. Okay.
Well then let's figure out where, where that interest lies,
because there's probably a lot more people who lie outside of that interest.
I think every, I think you should play it if,
if that's your kind of thing, but for a lot of people it isn't. So yeah,
I'll say I'm a chump,
and I like being a chump. It's fun.
He likes being a chump. Let's see if Kevin Lambert does too.
I mean, can you not respect the hustle? You know, someone's got bags and you need to bring in
fresh meat, right? Who else is going to buy your bags? No, I'm just kidding.
And I love the call out to Ori and the Blind Forest, by the way.
Thank you for that, Sam, having worked on that game.
That was awesome.
He's never played it.
I'm the one playing it.
Jerry, you don't know my life.
You don't know me, bro.
Whoops, I fat fingered mute, everybody'm sorry kevin go ahead sorry about that everybody in web 3 has some kind of i don't know if i want to call it
obligation but everyone in web 3 gaming with how little products there are has some kind of
obligation to either watch or play anything that is exciting, right?
I don't know that I subscribe to if you don't have huge bags, you're not a real KOL.
But, you know, I think that most people should like take time to understand
what's out there in the competitive space, right?
I played a little bit of Cambria, but, you know, then I'm like, okay, got it.
And, you know, I would even enjoy watching more of it just because it's kind of interesting to watch.
Right. But, you know, as it's not necessarily the kind of game that that I personally enjoy, like I wouldn't I wouldn't go very deep into that as a Chad player.
As a Vinny might be a different story. But, you know, I don't know.
So saying all KOLs have to play this,
otherwise, you know, who are they even?
I think if you don't have any knowledge of it whatsoever,
it's good to get that knowledge, you know.
You should know what other games are doing
and what's out there so that when people ask you about it,
you can be like, yeah, I like this,
but I didn't like this and have those conversations
and we can level up the space together.
But I don't know, saying you're nobody unless you have bags.
Question.
Tyrus also says he did the same thing for Raven quest whenever that was
popping off. I mean, it's still kind of is, but you know,
not too long ago, let's go over to Tony V that I'm tagging in.
Michael O'Connor, Tony V, Chad or Trump on this one.
Man, I gotta say moved in that I think the goal was to live in everyone's head for a little while.
And it's clear that that's happening.
I feel like I'm at a fucking swap meet listening to the bitties talk about who's hooking up with who.
up with who and uh i like it i'm here for it um but uh but yeah i mean i think that um the the
And I like it.
I'm here for it.
distinction between like a web3 gamer and a web3 kol is what uh i would i would call out in this
conversation right like i don't think that um as brash as he is that he was saying that like
everyone who cares about web3 gaming should be playing cambria where you don't care about web3
gaming um i heard it more as like the people who are tastemakers in the space
are supposed to be telling us what's good,
should be telling us that this is good.
And whether or not he's doing that because he has big bags
or because he thinks the game is that good, who knows?
I suspect it's probably a little bit of both.
But that's my take.
And I think that as an know, as a as a.
As an influencer, as a brand, I kind of think of all the personalities that I interact with as like WWE characters, if I don't know them personally.
And so I don't I don't really ascribe a lot of person like real, real personal feelings to people that I haven't met yet. Um, I, you know,
I always go back to Jonah. Like, you know, I, before I met Jonah live, um, you know, he was
like a, a Ric Flair type character in my mind. Um, just constantly like yelling at people's faces
and jumping up and down, you know, and then I met him in Miami and he's just like a dude,
you know, he's like a cool guy to hang out with. Nice, nice bro. Um, who, you know, has a character,
character of himself online that works.
That's where I think Inhuman, he's jumping off the top ropes.
He landed it, though, man.
He came off the top ropes and he came down.
Five-star frog splash executed to perfection right there.
Yeah, indeed.
It's always tough whenever we do these kinds of topics because people can always hit you with the like –
how many times have I brought up a topic where it's like, oh, so-and-so did XYZ thing for marketing,
and then the people are like, see, it's working because you talked about it on Gamified,
but it got like 14 likes, and I just thought it was an interesting topic.
This tweet didn't go like gigaviral, but the point still stands.
It is interesting
to talk about michael o'connor over to you yeah yeah that's kind of a little bit what i was
thinking as well i was kind of thinking like wow here we go like newsflash like faceless jpeg
person has said a hyperbolic statement about something that he's got some vested interest in um great um yeah man um i live
with that shit all the time you know what i mean like all the builders in this panel do too like
full of dms about that whether you're a hero or villain depending on what you do or what what
happens with some macroeconomic decision um yeah i just don't read into it like whether it's you know whether whether
whether anyone is a gamer or not you know everyone can play games the way that they want to play and
um you know it just doesn't even factor into the way i think about how to play games or what kind
of identity people have but uh it's just part of the the this mad game that
we actually play with social media and he's playing it his way
the cycle continues singin and then to knock
yeah this panel is hilarious you guys are like blood hurt or something like that this inhuman
die i like this guy man i think he's totally a fucking chad
and i think like what knock was saying like in the spirit of it actually i think it was a really
positive post i think it's like kind of like he's calling out like hey like can you really call
yourself a web3 gamer when there's this massive opportunity here and it seems to be working
and i think that's the spirit of what he's like calling out not like that you're not're not a web three gamer if you're not playing this, but like, Hey, like,
are you a web three gamer?
Like if you're not into this game right now, uh, because there seems to be an
opportunity here and that's what they're all looking for.
These web three gamers are like opportunities.
And then on the point that I think it was like knock or who had made it was,
um, about like, yeah, you have to like play these games.
Like I'm always like really astounded when
i talk to like other founders i'm like you know like this thing in axie with this and this and
this and they're like oh i've never played axie i'm like what you've never played axie like i
fucking bred fucking axes for like two weeks straight uh literally waiting for fucking shit
to hatch just so i could like really fucking get visceral and figure that out. Um, when, you know, it was, it was before,
like, I don't know, it was like probably fucking May, 2021 or whatever like
that. Um, I think if something like Cambria happens and I haven't played
because I've looked at it, but I've really devoured all the material that's
online on it. Um, and I think it's great. I think it's great for learning.
I think it's great for a founder. And I think it's great. I think it's great for learning. I think it's great for a founder.
And I think where everyone's kind of butthurt about this
is maybe, okay, Ian Newman,
if you have bad history with the dude, I don't.
I think, you know, I like these inflamed posts.
I like Jonah.
I respect him because of his posts.
I mean, publicly, sometimes we don't get along,
but privately, we're like totally fine.
But like, yeah, I mean,
I think he's making a call out for opportunity for opportunity and like if it's about your identity and like like am i really
like a web3 gamer or whatever like that like fuck man like if you're a gamer you're a fucking gamer
and you know and if you're a web3 gamer and you're like a mercenary extractive you know player like
fuck those players anyways right like at the end of the day like for your game
Do you want a web through player? Do you want like a parallel player?
Do you want like a project? Oh player, right? Or you want a major player?
You just want someone who really loves your game. So guys just relax on this guy, you know
Like I think he's doing like God's work here in crypto
knock
Yeah, I don't know it's kind of God of god's work is crazy it's kind of funny it's like
i i don't understand this shouldn't be a hot take guys like this this should not be a hot take
it's like breaking news people who talk about thing all the time should probably learn about
the things that are happening in the thing that they talk about it's like when somebody who's
shilling you tokens has never bridged a token or they don't know the difference between off-chain
and on-chain token or they can't fucking describe what a decentralized exchange is versus a
centralized exchange or the different nft standards like you talk about this you shill this shit to
people you should have some idea of what is happening within the ecosystem. That doesn't mean you need to be playing every other game. But the point stands, the actual tweet is,
nothing else is going on. Mark it down, nothing else is going on. $1.2 million in price pool in
Cambria. You should be at least paying attention to what's happening there. Now, paying attention
might mean playing the game. It might mean reading some things that are going on on social. It might be this conversation here,
but to be anybody who makes a living off of this ecosystem without being willing to learn about
the things that are happening in that ecosystem, I think that's insanity. It's like the only
difference between ICO Beast and Inhuman, ICO Beast is like one of my favorite people in the world,
but the only difference between ICO Beast and Inhuman is ICO Beast is like one of my favorite people in the world. But the only difference between ICO Beast and Inhuman is ICO Beast posts educational content. And that's his way of telling
you, you should be paying attention to new and emerging tech and new things that are happening
within the ecosystem. And Inhuman tells you you're a fucking idiot for not paying attention to those
things. And people don't like the latter, but they're really doing the same thing. And ICO Beast
has built himself up to one of the biggest people in the ecosystem,
and deservedly so because he always provides alpha.
But Inhuman does the same as well.
He's just calling you a lazy piece of shit for not paying attention to it earlier.
And I think that that rubs people the wrong way.
But you're talking about a guy who absolutely does have a vested interest in a lot of these games,
but who also made six figures last year on just airdrops and winnings from playing the web three games like actually playing and almost
every time that campaign ends he posts like a debrief like this was a complete waste of time
or this was worth it or i love this game but it wasn't good financially like this is a dude who
plays games very similar to the way that dub does the only issue with this
statement i think anybody has and again every creator that i saw took this offense to it it's
from who it came from if ico beast posted a thread and said you should be paying attention to this
here are three things you need to learn about cambria everybody's excited the message is
effectively the same it's just delivered in a fucking bag of spikes
wrapped in barbed wire when it's coming from Inhuman.
I like assholes.
Whoa.
Pause.
I know what you meant there,
but coming from you, Sinjin, you have to realize.
I know, I know, I know.
But I do like them both ways too, though, actually.
Oh, no.
All right, let's go to limbs and then to dub. And then I've got a quick fire, and I'm also them both ways too, though, actually. Oh, no. All right, let's go to Lem's and then to Dub.
And then I've got a quick fire, and I'm also going to ask you guys your MVP at the same time.
So get ready for that.
But Lem's over to you.
Man, how am I supposed to come in after assholes?
But anyway, okay.
I have some opinions on this one.
And I think Nock's point about who it came from is definitely valid.
But this is something I've yelled about on this panel before of like i don't want opinions from someone who doesn't understand that genre
like if you're a gamer who plays like web 2 games and you play shooters all the time like i don't
care about your opinion on cambria on the timeline because you don't play mmorpgs or you don't play
anything that's even remotely similar to that.
We can go back over the last year
or two years and it's like people going like,
oh, Parallel's boring. I don't like
that. It's like, do you ever play TCGs?
No. And I'm like, well, your opinion doesn't really
hold much fucking weight then.
Same with like, oh my god, Shrapnel's the best thing
since sliced bread. And it's like, do you ever play
Extraction Shooters? Oh no.
I've just tried this one the once. So why the fuck are you giving an opinion then like that's
why i think you should give an opinion if you actually know about the game or you know about
the genre but like if you never play this genre why the fuck should you be talking about cambria
now all of a sudden just because they have this big prize pool and they're doing this event going
on like i saw jesus martinez was in there like on the comments going i have zero time on this like i don't play this kind of game i play shooters and
i'm like that guy's a real gamer like i've seen him play a ton of games and i would not call him
not a web 3 game in kol and there's other people who are just like i don't like the game um i think
you should actually know about the genre if you're going to have an opinion on it because
that's more larping in my opinion if
you're talking about something that you literally never played the web 2 equivalent of it then that
is the definition of a larp and you're just talking about it just because it's the hot thing on the
block yeah i think there is something to be said with like if you know what that genre of game
entails you could probably watch a few videos and get a sense for what
cambria is doing maybe not a detailed overview but you can at least understand it at a high level i'm
sure knock understands very well what's going on in cambria even if he doesn't know what the entire
onboarding experience is or something like that uh dub for a quick word then knock for a quick
word that we're going to move on yeah to clarify i i do love inhuman despite calling
a chump and like my problem with this and where it goes too far is that in saying that there is no fun
out here in web3 gaming and correlating good price and market conditions being like
whether or not there's fun around here like i'm playing new games literally
every week and having a black wild card is out with the best build it's ever had and is a ton
of fun and i'm diving like there's just a no there's not web3 gaming money making opportunities
over the past two or three months that have been great, but there is still a lot of fun gameplay out here
and making a biased statement like that is where I get frustrated and tired of seeing it. Um,
because just like with the Oscars, everyone should actually dive in and ingest this stuff
before they do. And I know that in human has still a lot more games to play before he can
like correctly make a market statement saying there's no fun around here.
Knock with the thumbs down.
Last word.
Yeah.
There are two people in this space that I want everybody to get familiar
with.
And it's in human and Psalm who works at magic Eden.
Both of these guys were professional e-sports players in multiple titles.
I hate to be the person to break this to everybody who has illusions of being the best gamer in web 3
it's those two and inhuman is probably number one he is the absolutely the type of person
who can play a game that he doesn't typically play and very quickly discern whether or not
he thinks the game is good whether he likes likes it is completely different. And that's what I appreciate about guys like him
is he understands what makes a good game.
He doesn't have to like your game to make it a good game.
I disagree with him on a lot,
specifically around the parallel world championship.
He and I went head to head.
We had a sidebar on it.
It's ridiculous.
But this thing about Web3 Gamers is like,
oh, if you haven't played 100 hours,
Inhumans played 1,000 hours of every fucking genre that's ever existed ever because he's a professional gamer. but this thing about web3 gamers is like oh if you haven't played a hundred hours in humans played
a thousand hours of every fucking genre that's ever existed ever because he's a professional
gamer like an actual professional esports athlete so if somebody's saying something like i would
carry some weight on what guys like him let's not say athlete though let's not say i agree with what
you're saying i'm saying yeah yeah but like he is somebody who can very quickly discern whether or
not something is good.
And again, the point isn't you need to play Cambria.
The point is if the market's quiet and something is blowing up,
you should probably be paying attention
if you have an opinion on the ecosystem at all.
Mark, I didn't expect you to go full athlete.
Esports athletics coming to you soon.
This horse is sufficiently beaten to death,
but we're going to do the MVP voting.
And we're also going to ask people, quick fire, okay,
what's the word for President Trump
announcing 220 holders of Trump coin will get dinner with him?
I just had to get just a quick little spice melange
from everybody on that one.
Jerry has the hand up first. Jerry, what's the word and who's your MVP for the day? Yeah, the word is crimes
legal. Like, oh, you know, yeah, crimes legal. This is amazing, dude. I've never seen anything
like this. Like, you can't say we don't live in the most interesting timeline in the fucking
history of the world. Like we live in by far the most interesting time ever, for better or for worse.
So that's really cool.
I would say the MVP here is probably Wills for me.
Wills, I think, comes and consistently drops knowledge and, you know, has some really good takes.
And, you know, he's the worst part of him is that he's a Gen Z.
But I think it's good to hear
from those people all the time. And he represents himself and his generation very well. And yeah,
that was a fun episode. Thanks Sam for letting me just a traditional marketing athlete up on the
stage and talking for two weeks. Yeah, no worries. Shout out to Wills. I i'm gonna go to koji next koji what's the word and if i'm gonna
yeah go ahead coach yeah the word is utility we've been asking for it and we got it you know
here it is boys and the president of the united states brought it to us
all his game's gonna be great i'm so excited um my MVP who's my MVP this week
I don't know man
my MVP this week you know what my MVP this week is Jerry
because he DM'd me while the show was going on and he understood
my George W. Bush reference and that really made my day
so I'm with you Jerry
one athlete to another I appreciate that big dog
Katie Drake Bettner in the comments also shouting out that reference So I'm with you, Jerry. One athlete to another. I appreciate that, big dog.
Katie Drake Bettner in the comments also shouting out that reference.
So consider that two MVP votes.
Let's go to Nock.
Nock, what's the word, and who's your MVP?
94 days ago, the word would have been illegal.
But today, I guess the word is legal.
MVP today, Michael O''connor for sure michael o'connor with the mvp vote let's go to lems lems what's your word and who's your mvp
all right i'm using the hyphen cheat here it's marketing genius like this man is going to have
everyone talking about this for the next fucking month because he's created a bidding war for the top 220 holders that it will be a snapshot in a month's time to go for his goddamn dinner.
And everyone's just going to be talking about it.
So he's going to have captured mindshare.
And my MVP is Michael O'Connor.
It's been good to have you back on the show.
It's been too long.
Yeah.
Big shout out to Michael.
Let's go over to him.
Who's your MVP?
And what's the word here?
Thanks. Yeah. Shout out to Michael. Let's go over to him. Who's your MVP and what's the word here? Oh, thanks.
Yeah, I mean, I was, I had my decision made and then Nock came in with that delightful one word
about illegal and now legal.
So that joke would definitely warrant consideration.
But I thought Lem smashed it out.
I think Lem smashed it out today with amazing takes.
So I'm going to throw it up as Lem's.
Lem's with the MVP, bro.
You love to see us.
Bang, what's your word?
And who's your MVP?
My word is money.
Because, you know, bang, bro.
I mean, I respect it.
I just wonder what the dinner is going to be. because it's probably just going to be Macca's, which would be absolutely hilarious.
I just hope he pays off the debt with it.
So that's where my head's at.
My MVP of the day is going to be...
I want to give it to Jerry because yeah I'll give it to Jerry because I love just hearing Jerry
I want to give it to Jerry because...
rant against the slop of the world and it's it's it's always refreshing to to to hear and and know
that I'm not alone in my own head um also those people about Gen Z to the most boomer mid 20s year old is crazy but I love you anyways
Spang for the for the uncultured American swine among us that definitely
doesn't encapsulate me Macca's is is mac and cheese right no no no it's
Macca's with an a that was a slip of the tongue, but yeah, it is McDonald's.
That's even funnier.
I'm glad we clarified.
All right, Dov, over to you.
What's the word and who's your MVP?
I think the word's thread guy, question mark.
I want to see him make a run for doing it. I mean, he did it last time.
I think he does it again.
He should have the money after everything.
So, yeah, looking forward to seeing that um i'm giving mvp to knock uh dude dude just ran it up and
just guys jerry sucks don't forget that thanks thanks for the feedback dub i feel like i feel
like dub is one of those guys that's like trying to trying to get like uh conor mcgregor to like
get a fight with him, even though he's ranked
17th. He's like, come on, pussy.
You won't.
Jeremy Stevens-ass dub
over there, dude.
Let's go to my
I'm sorry, Kevin Lambert.
Your wife, he's with me DM.
I love the word.
I'll go with
you can take your pick. G gensler for the memes or whale bait
it's so good um i love to see it uh mvp is gonna be knock man has spit some excellent takes
including uh even on simplified uh this week talking about like why are people not seeing
these the tokenize everything as the same thing we
went through back with like jack dorsey's by these tweets back in the day so i've just i found myself
highly aligned with nox takes in the last uh 72 hours hey for just for everybody on the panel
you did such a bad job this week that knock won an mvp vote for a take he had on simplified what's the word and who's your mvp
oh man the word is trump trump just being trump you know uh you take the good and the bad and the really fucking bad with Trump.
But the MVP is Nock.
You know, like I usually, I hate agreeing with Nock.
But I, you know, I thought I was in the fucking twilight zone.
I think I agreed with like 95% of what he said today.
I think he, you know, what's great thing about Nock is that he's really,
not only is he consistent, but he's always very neutral.
He's not, that's not the right word, but impartial.
He looks at it and he takes it as it is.
I think that's always good.
This level that Nock has in terms of being always professional. I really do appreciate that. And if anyone's wondering off the panel or whatever that,
yeah,
me and knock,
we're actually good friends,
but it doesn't seem like that.
Cause I always want to fuck them up on this panel.
Tony V with the last MVP vote.
And what's the word for a Trump special dinner for his holders?
Yeah.
I mean,
same thing.
It's crime season, man. it's where we're in the
weirdest audit in the most exciting timeline who knows if it's the best but but there's crazy
shit happening every day um and yeah i gotta go to knock knock is a knock is a real chad and he's
uh he's the mvp for this uh and by the way i downloaded or not downloaded but i started playing
cambria uh while we were all sitting here talking and i'm not going to lie, it's pretty fucking fun.
Like, I'm probably going to do this for the next several hours.
I'm going to go eat some Korean barbecue tonight, come home, tuck myself in, and just fucking mine ore for the next 12 hours.
Tight.
Just one quick note real quick before we go to Knock as the MVP.
Gabe Layden saying there may have been some misinformation about some of the ways we were interpreting app tokens.
may have been some misinformation about some of the ways we were interpreting app tokens.
That subject in general is so fucking confusing that I don't know if I spent the next 45 hours
reading about it, if I could actually convey it correctly. And all 10 panelists would be educated
enough to speak on it while making no mistakes. So do your own research on there. I'm sure there's
some interesting technology, some interesting implementations. We'll continue to track it
as it evolves. Shout out to Gabe and continuing to try and push the space forward.
I appreciate that.
Come on the show.
Come on the show, Gabe.
Let's talk about it, Gabe.
Come on the show, Gabe.
Knock over to you, man.
Congrats on the MVP, bro.
Yeah, nothing to shill, Sam, other than please, please, it's too much winning.
I'm tired of winning.
I'm fucking 30 years old, and this is like our fourth unprecedented life event that is happening.
Like, fuck, let's just get some normalcy.
Let's stop shilling shit from the Oval Office.
Let's build cool shit.
Let's have some fun.
I might have a stroke if I did that, all right?
There's a lot of really cool builders in the space.
We should be paying attention to the things that they're building, not the fucking ponzi that is being run from the top of
the oval office a lot of really cool people on this panel a lot of really cool people building
interesting tech in the space and regardless of whether or not you would agree with all the
implementations or you agree with the route people are taking things there's really cool shit
happening in this space so pay attention listen to fucking inhuman pay attention play the things
read the things do the things learn from guys like Inhuman and ICO, because they are probably, they probably have the best pulses about what's happening within the industry right now, because they, instead of reading about things, they jump into it.
They actually get use out of the products and new things that are happening within the ecosystem.
And then they disseminate that information to peons like us.
Only Inhuman does it in a way that everybody hates.
But yes, for real, pay attention to things, try things.
There's a lot of really cool shit going on here.
I don't know, man.
Paying $400,000 for a dinner sounds like pretty crypto to me.
Avalanche, though, is the official chain of Gamified, and it's more than just a blockchain.
It's a winter wonderland of innovation with a $100 million AI fund and partnerships with
gaming giants like Gunzilla Games, T1 Esports, and Solo Leveling.
Avalanche is breaking the ice and setting the standard for the future of Web3 Gaming.
So whether you're a seasoned pro or curious newbie, come explore the Avalanche possibilities and discover a world where the snow never melts and the fun never stops.
And I'm calling all cosmic crusaders and spacefaring scoundrels because Star Atlas is about to ignite the gaming galaxy with its pulse-pounding space races, where velocity and valor are your keys to victory.
Master the maneuvers of magnificent spaceships, mine marvelous minerals, and build an empire that spans the stars.
Join the Discord, get a game key, and play the preseason to prepare for a year of stellar surprises in 2025.
And get ready to rumble with the gaming gatekeepers who are flipping the script and giving the power back to the players.
They're the ones that are empowering digital players to take control of their digital destinies
to power and build their own societies and to shape the future of gaming.
So grab your game pads and get ready to conquer the next era of gaming with Game 7, the official
infrastructure of Gamified.
And of course, colossal shout out to each and every one of my panelists, Michael O'Connor
and what they're building over there with Yumio and Limbo, Sinjin, of course, with
My Angry Yakuza Girlfriend, Koji with Parallel and Wayfinder, building over there with Yumio and Limbo. Sinjin, of course, with My Angry Yakuza Girlfriend.
Koji with Parallel and Wayfinder.
Kevin Lambert with Project O and Coin Games.
Knock with Magic Eden, Simplified,
and all the other cool stuff he works on.
Lemz with the Lizard Labs.
Jerry with Uptick.
Dub and Tony with Glitter Cloud Solutions.
And, of course, my man from the top rope,
Will Spangler with Avalanche.
Appreciate you guys so much
and everybody that comes and listens each and every week.
We'll see you back here same time, same place next week for another episode of Gamified.
115 friggin' Wednesdays in a row minus Christmas.
It's insane.
Thanks, guys, for joining us.
Appreciate you.
Smooches.
Welcome.
It doesn't
it doesn't work as good when paul's not here but i appreciate
it and katie's
no longer in the audience either so
that was just into the void
rip Thank you.
