is somebody talking or people just emoting I'm an old man so you help to excuse me
we just emote now there's actually two hours of us we're just going to be waving doing the the gaspy phase
the start of gamified his library time go gee we've we've been through this before it's like for some needs is two minutes of peace and quiet
I know what you like I'm I'm all about it I'm all about it and then I'd like to ruin silence
no we can't hear you through your apple vision pro
fuck because it's working it is I am inside twitter spaces in the apple vision pro all right
well you know I thought it was going to be a failure because I launched the x app the ipad app
and it's like sorry no twitter space is here but then I just use the browser and it works so we're
going to see we're going to see we're going to try it but right now I'm coming at you live from
the metaverse not that he was never his problem but he can't put his hand up now oh no you're
no you're right no I have to like pinch this is annoying wait no you're right I can't put my
hand up oh fuck oh my gosh can you emote I can emote yeah see I can do this yeah well you
just wave at me and okay I'll try or I might just switch my phone this becomes too annoying
but that's a conversation for later yeah about 40 minutes into the show we're gonna go uh to Paul
for story time about the apple vision pro and dissect what we actually think the potential is
here which I'm extremely excited for and it would be all that more entertaining if you're actually
doing it from the apple vision pro but I won't that's I'm gonna try I might switch back and forth
right now I'm inside it's working I'm here so we'll see come on I might have an extra battery
for you Paul I think I ordered uh a few too many extra apple vision pro batteries so okay cool
thanks man the deal will go down at midnight at GDC
man I can't wait for GDC this is probably the most friends I've ever had showing up in one place
it's gonna be really cool because you could kind of be like pseudo undoxed still with like your
dumb fucking thing on your head you know all the people who are undoxed are gonna be like
showing up with their apple vision pros be like you don't know who I am so true
I only got the alpha that's that's what I need so I need an apple vision pro for GDC
this is actually unannounced but uh I'm gonna I'm gonna say this then I'm gonna go into the intros
we're gonna do a a gamified alumni party at the wolves den and it's gonna be all of the people
that have ever been invited to be speakers on this show are all invited to the wolves den for
for the after party the Wednesday that the gamified happens oh shit man that's the biggest
announcement on this show I don't know how we're gonna top that that is incredible I'm oh my gosh
I can't wait I'm extremely excited hopefully we can get Paul out of his vision pro for maybe
even like 15 minutes just so we could take some pictures nope I'm gonna be that guy you guys I'm
not I refuse to share my my my avatar first generation avatar because they were like they
have like a version 1.1 that has apparently gotten rid of how absolutely horrifying it is
but it's absolutely horrifying so I'm not gonna show you guys but I'll wait until they
if someone steals your apple pros it was it was me okay cool you guys can get in line and we'll
just put it on a table and see who grabs it first all right guys uh one more quick thing we have
hytopia nodes and x-borg Prometheus chestplate NFTs to give away today the nodes are a white
list that you have to pay for the actual nodes I'm not even sure what the pricing is there but
I'm going to give away one of those node white lists to somebody who tells me what their favorite
intro is for the next 10 minutes real quick though I was in the hospital earlier today and
a little bit short of breath so fingers crossed I can get through the intros the way that I typically
do no excuses though we're going to jump into it he's not just a player he's a prophet of play
a visionary voyager with a scepter of strategy and a crown of cunning he's carved out kingdoms
and keystrokes ruling over realms with the clash of swords and casting spells echo with
the power of his prowess now as the maven of business development and magic eden he's
employing a decade of experience in scaling web businesses in scaling businesses and managing
talent in the realm of esports to take web3 gaming to the next level welcome to the panel it's the
ruler of runescape the emperor of esports who's that is doc oh I hated that I can't believe that
this is the first time that's happened oh that's so good um I'm realizing as you're giving me this
intro and you end it with the ruler of runescape I realize that I'm literally always playing runescape
it might be a problem um but that's a conversation for another time we did it guys the the 54 episode
intervention for knock has finally taken effect we did it we could all be proud of ourselves
uh this is actually the last episode of game of five now uh a once gallant guardian against
the inferno who has leaped from the fiery front lines into the furnace of fiscal fortitude
this is the man who's traded in his fire truck for financial forecasts his acts for analytics
behold the man who once had no fear whether facing a wall of fire or a fiery critique of the market
the pyromaniac turned portfolio pioneer brings heat to every deal the spark to every strategy
and the warmth of genuine passion to every project he touches it's the flame taming financier the
sizzling sultan of startups the man with the mightest touch is cherry the golden god singer
I think I hear what you're trying to do it's not working very well though
is that is that doug hype over at your house right now is that what is that the sense that I'm getting here
I am next positioned at the pinnacle of play he personifies the pure power of a pioneering spirit
a prodigy who propelled age of empires to popularity this paragon of pixel perfection pivoted
to plant his prowess in the panorama of mobile marvels producing the phenomenon of words with
friends now as wildcard waits in the wings this patriarch of programming prepares to plunge into
the potential packed province of web 3 gaming promising another pioneering project please put
your hands together for paul the prince of pixels the bard of bites a true titan in the tumultuous
tides of tech with the wisdom of a sage in the inside of a seer he turned a modest musing into
a monumental milestone negotiating the nascent of a notion into the nucleus of a nine-figure nirvana
the prolific the polite the polished is the peerless paramount paul bettner hello my friends
and as I mentioned at the top of the show coming at you live from inside the apple vision pro sam
wanted me to report on on my experiences there just so you know this is a not a new thing for
me I'll tell you guys a little bit about it later my journey in VR started when I got my hands on
a duct tape prototype with oculus back in oh my god I don't even remember what year that was
but anyway so this is like been a much larger longer journey for us but this device is really
cool so I'm excited to tell you guys about thanks again for having me today I'm really excited to
be here dude I'm so excited I was so bummed whenever you got COVID last week and couldn't
couldn't make it but I'm stoked that you've had even another week to play around with it and I
want to say it's so cool I will say one thing is it feels like I'm here with you guys so the apple
vision pro does this thing where it's like positional audio and so I have the browser up
with spaces in front of me and it's actually like putting your voices into the room and it feels
more like I'm together with you than I think I've ever had on my phone before so score one for for
apple vision pro already that's crazy dude up next prepare yourselves for the entrance of an enigma
wrapped in a riddle shrouded in mystery and dressed in the armor of authenticity he emerges a lone
figure against the setting sun of societal norms wielding not just a weapon but the very essence of
truth itself once a colossus in the concrete jungle of behemoth in the board room he towered
above the trivial and the trepid yet with not content with the conquest of commerce he cast off
the cloak of corporate commands champion a cause closer to his core welcome to the panel from angry
who's a girlfriend it's the titan of taboo the haunting him of the night it's sinjin hi everyone
i'm i'm uh actually sober and i'm ready to participate today welcome back brother it's
great to have you uh sorry you messed up your iron man streak last week but it seems like it
was worth it seemed like you're having a great time and with 10 000 hours logged into first
person shooter games this man has more kills under his belt than he has golf balls lost in the woods
he's a man whose golf score might suggest he's playing basketball but has clocked more than 10
000 i repeated that one his degree is in chemical engineering so this tale of transformation of a
chemical conductor becoming the game guru proving that with a bit of alchemy and a lot of ambition
you can transform an idea into gold this is the caddy of crypto the putter of platforms the tea
time tactician from avax we got parker man only sam stephanina could make me sound reasonably cool
um thank you for that i've been waiting several several weeks of gamified i'm happy to be here
for my first and maybe my last one with paul and we're gonna lose into the metaverse here soon
but uh yeah super excited to be here thanks for joining us parker great to have you man
and ladies and gentlemen gamers and trailblazers fasten your virtual seatbelts as we drive into
the realm of hyper casual hysteria and idle intrigue this is the virtuoso who flipped the
script in the tap and play universe with hyper cards he didn't just launch a game he unleashed
a phenomenon captivating 15 million users he navigated the nautical nuances of raft life
steering it to a whopping 10 million downloads but why stop there then he shifted gears to
superhero race blazing past the finish line and staggering 10 25 million downloads excuse me each
title a testament to his touch screen triumphs in the sizzling summer of 2021 he ignited a gaming
revolution spearheading a joint venture with boom hits parent company to birth the colossus that is
now play ember welcome to the panel the sultan of swipe the hyper casual king the titan of
touch screens representing play ember it's john hook yes um i think you just gave me an extra 15
million installs just by a slip of the tongue so i appreciate you man but anyway glad glad that
you're healthy and um yeah thanks for the invite back next time i'm just gonna say it's uh it's 125
million we'll just keep going up until it's just like jerry's height and weight every single yeah
i was gonna say sam gives me an extra six inches every month in height guys in height
and up next this is not just a player this is a pioneer and navigator of the nets new frontiers
having played 300 web 3 games he's the supreme head of community and partnerships at shrapnel
he's the wizard who weaves together warriors and wanderers across the web crafting a coalition of
comrades and with his background and sporting goods he's coming from 360s on the slopes to 360
no scopes welcome back to the panel the shrapnel sharpshooter the undisputed king of controllers
it's dub oh my god sam i love you thank you for for taking my little rights into the intro
um absolute pleasure to be here even though park is here and he killed me way more times than i
care to admit in uh the playtest last weekend dude all the beef that's coming out from the
shrapnel playtest is absolutely amazing people are people are low-key uh developing some serious
competitiveness he's the rock star reborn as the ruler of parallel the number one nft trading card
game that's reshuffled the deck of digital destiny turning pixels into prized possessions
meet the man who once commanded the crowd with cords and now captivates the community with cards
the rock star turned royal flush of the nft world he's perfectly played the hands that he was dealt
transforming tunes into tokens and riffing his way through the ranks to reign supreme in the ever
expanding universe of digital collectibles it's the commander of the cards the prince of parallel
you know it's koji hey thanks for uh thanks for having me i feel like i'm uh slowly creeping on
to more and more of your show sam and it's uh i'm like spending more time with sam than i am with
my family at this point it's a little bit crazy hey i'm i'm not gonna stop you from doing that
i appreciate it and introducing the web3 warrior the d5 devoter who saw the future when he bought
a board eight 4.3 ethan laughed all the way to the ledger meet the man who joined stardust when
it was just a constellation of dreams in the vast cosmos of crypto as its eighth employee no less
a solutions engineer turned business development behemoth who didn't just climb the ranks but
reshaped the very realm he reigned over in 2021 he pivoted to business development with the precision
of a blockchain transaction this is the architect of infrastructure the sultan of solutions
representing stardust it's andy i always knew that listening to sam intro me would be like
listening to your own voice on a recording and i'm absolutely correct it's the worst thing ever
thank you very much for that introduction it's a spectrum it's a spectrum ladies and
gentlemen lend an ear to the linchpin of our lively lexicon the littlest luminary with the
last loftiest of lure when our dialogue lingers lingers he lays down the law lighting the lamp
that leads us weighing in at 2.4 pounds let's laud the liaison the lightweight with the lion heart
for the 53rd episode uh after missing last week for the first time it's the literalist legend
it lands gmgm yeah boom missed an episode my streak has been broken and i'm coming from my
pleb cell phone i feel like such a pleb here with uh with pollen oh no no i'm back on my phone
apple vision pro rugged me so here we go jeez it was not the future i changed my takes vr is not
the future all right guys calmed down you know it's emerging technology okay it's like it's like
web 3 right you gotta exactly we gotta be a little forgiving give it a little grace
ardent admirers and audacious gamers blockchain believers and digital daydreamers let's assemble
for the arrival of another amazing episode of game of five let's acclaim and adore avalanche
the awe-inspiring authoritative and absolute anchor of our astronomical adventure the official
blockchain of gamified avalanche and its astounding ascent audaciously alters and amplifies
the arcane intricacies of our ledger into an articulate accessible atlas of astounding
possibilities it's a monumental marvel of innovation and relentless roaring rivers of daring
dynamic developments and lock and load and aim your sights as we zero in on the explosive
endorser shrapnel the official game of gamified march into a minefield and prepare for an artillery
assault of adrenaline in the explosive arena of web 3 warfare with this first person shooter
navigate your way to shrapnel.com and list your profile and launch a barrage of comments likes
and retweets on today's show for a chance to win one of those extraction packs that might just get
you access to a play test and maybe even our operator plus a cache of other valuable victories
gear up gather your wits and get ready to grenade your way to glory and last but definitely not
least gather out for a glittering guide to gaming greatness welcome the spectacular the sensational
stardust the official infrastructure of gamified are you dreaming of diving into the dynamic
domain of web 3 games desiring to dazzle and dominate the digital well stardust is your star
studded steed steering your software to the summit of success stardust empowers every eager developer
with the cream of the crop and technology transforming the top titles like midnight society
into titans of the terrain with stardust prepare to propel your project to the pinnacle of play
and profitability and andy i just got to say thank you so much man for sponsoring gamified
i wanted to send it to you for a quick word on why you guys chose to sponsor our show and what
you guys yeah and apologies for the noise i'm running around las vegas
no man it was sorry i for us it was like it's a very very big deal to be continuing to push
like quality content in this space and i'm just this is also you know reflection of the people
you brought onto the show so people on the stage now everyone takes it very seriously
while being you know like i said before self-aware and and just acknowledging the weaknesses and the
strengths and division and it's just it's just really good and what i want to see more of in
this space so it's not a hard sell for me at all to to want to put money behind that and and go
after making tons more of this content so that we can go and get people rod reaching relatable and
understanding and education into the space at scale so fully believing in the content around
web3 gaming really appreciate what you guys do appreciate you so much making time for us while
you're at dice and just so you guys know we're locked up 2024 no more sponsors it's the holy
trinity the exodia of gamified we're locked in paul you got the hand up before we jump into the
first subject oh i just wanted to tell andy uh we're also out there at dice for anyone that's
out there at dice hit up wild kate because she's out there with the amazing chelsea we're uh on the
show floor doing a lot of business and would love to talk to you so and really anyone else
who's there at dice like please put up your hand we'd love to know who's there so that we can
make those connections before the show's over so great andy if you haven't had a chance to meet up
with kate yet uh please find her and i'm sure she would love we're huge fans of what you guys
are doing at stardust i was so thrilled when sam when you announced that that that was your
your third and final sponsor you guys are just amazing at picking the best groups to work with
awesome appreciate that and i definitely will i think cana saw her running around uh just
earlier today so definitely will and i just just so you know sam i'm gonna be on mute for
about 15 minutes while i wrap up this lunch i'm out i'm at so uh i'll be back in a bit
amazing that's making already happening and thanks paul i didn't realize you were making
time for us while you were in las vegas that's amazing of you no i'm not i'm here in texas
watching the kids katie's out of dice well played brother i mean i mean working on wildcard and
watching yeah yeah yeah sure sure uh-huh big deal little deal no deal disney is spending 1.5 billion
dollars to build the real metaverse maybe there's a quote from this press release disney and epic
games to create expansive and open games and entertainment universes connected to fortnite
today epic games and walt disney company are announcing that they will collaborate on an all
new open persistent social universe that'll bring disney stories and experiences to life
inter-operating with fortnite and it's more than 100 million active players and creators
my question again for the panel is this a big deal and is uefn the real metaverse and we're
just pretending it's us here in web 3 i'll send it to koji first yeah big deal uh i've always said
that uh honestly if anyone's going to build a metaverse it's going to be epic because uh
i mean where else outside of like who framed roger rabbit are you going to see competing ip
existing in the same space you know what i mean it's like it would be unheard of in in a in a
different world to have uh these all these characters from all these like disparate ip's
together because one company would would normally be like oh wow these guys are in i'm out like
fuck them but because um fortnite just makes just like literally prints money uh everyone's obviously
in it and so they already have all the buy-in from everyone they need you know and they've kind of
been dipping people's toes in the water again i like to use the analogy of like boiling the frog
or whatever but they're slowly turning up the heat with their like live concerts and other
quote unquote live concerts and other events in fortnite where they're priming the youth for like
okay you're gonna spend more and more time here and do things other than shoot each other and
build shit right and uh we're there man i i think it's a huge deal great stuff dub had to hand up
next over to shrapnel yeah a huge massive deal i can't believe koji had the who framed roger rabbit
callback it's been so long since i've seen that glorious film but the i mean basically they're
building this thing but they're doing gaming first and they're doing it before they add vr
and before they add blockchain to it and i think that's just freaking brilliant and i think they're
more than willing to add that stuff later and are planning for that so for sure it's a huge deal and
i think it's a it's a smart way of going about it too with the current market can i get some love
for wreck it ralph didn't that have like 50 ip's in it too or am i am i too young for this uh jerry
over to you yeah big deal um it's it's huge and i think we always knew that epic was probably
going to lead the way i think we all you know for a bit lost sight of things and and thought that
maybe some web3 companies would do it um but i mean epic is so set up for this right and
the writing's been on the wall for a long time i will say the one thing i don't love is um
disney actually being involved right and i love it for the financial reasons but i think disney's
historically had some great ip's and struggled to launch good gaming experiences around them so
my hope is that disney just stays the fuck out of the way and just adds money to something and
and let something else build let somebody else build something great with their ip
i'm actually inclined to agree with you there i think nak was next up
yeah i mean i don't know how you can look at this objectively and pretend that it's not
a major fucking deal like this is two of the largest companies in the respective industries
in fact two of the largest companies full-blown like on earth um working together to create
experiences fortnite if you've never been a part of one of their live events it is unlike literally
anything that exists anywhere in the world gaming or you know the traditional non-gaming ecosystem
like the live events that they do within the fortnite ecosystem are truly incredible you throw
in like some disney themed events and i'm like already gassed up for all the possibilities there
i think that this is a massive deal it's honestly i'm surprised it took this long for it to actually
happen if there's one thing that epic does really well it's create fun exciting super
sticky experiences for users they'll just continue this with incredible ip as well this is gonna be
awesome and paul betner my guest knock is the reason this took a while to happen which is also
part of my concern here is that probably both companies were sort of jockeying to determine
who was actually going to be in the driver's seat and reading like trying to read between the lines
of the press release it's still not entirely clear i i like you i think probably not hope
that it's epic in the driver's seat of this and that you know disney is just like look we have
this incredible catalog of some of the most beloved ip in the world you guys are just the absolute
masters at building games and now in this case and the absolute leading edge of creating what is
legitimately potentially the metaverse we've all been talking about so please help take us to this
promised land of this metaverse you're building and take all our ip there if on the other hand
disney does what disney has sometimes been known to do and is like way too precious about exactly
how they want it to go and what their vision is and this you know and i'm the biggest dixie fan
ever but when it comes to video games they need to get out of the way and they need to let epic
continue to drive this incredible vision that they have and that tim has for what they're building
and if it works that way then i mean no matter what i agree with all you guys this is the biggest
deal that's gonna that's happened in several years and it's probably gonna happen for the
next couple years we've all been waiting for something like this to happen it's so obvious
but now i'm holding my breath because again if it's driven by epic and if it if it relies on their
experiences game builders and with their vision for the metaverse this is going to be the most
incredible thing ever um if on the other hand uh you know you get kind of big big wig execs
butting heads on this and not really clear on who's really in the driver's seat then it it could go
really badly and cindy tied you in yeah i think it's a big deal for the metaverse but i don't
think it's anything for you know what we're doing in web 3 and the reason why i say that is because
like which ip is this it's the ip of disney and i really believe the same thing what while pause
all saying is that you know uh disney will probably get itself you know it's just the
way that they handle their ip and stuff like that and the nature and the size of disney i'd love to
see how this collaboration works and i think for what the web 2 metaverse is that's great right
but if we're talking about like the sense of ownership to create something um that has it's
you know a life of its own in web 3 i think this is a very small deal interesting knock attacking
you back in yeah just to kind of touch on what paul was saying i i think what gives me hope that
epic will be in the driver's seat is that they just went on this like multi-year crusade against
like the biggest company on earth to make sure that they were in control of their own product
and it i just have a hard time believing that like they finish that battle or they take all
the steps that they took in that battle and then they just roll over and die to disney um i feel
like that is just unlikely based off of literally nothing other than my own opinion um but i'm
hopeful that based off of the way that they've behaved in the past they're not ready to roll
over just yet um completely unrelated to this topic what the fuck is this little scissor that
is in the way of my emojis on the space bar does anybody else see this there used to be like the
emoji bar right beside the comments and now there's scissors in the way what is that about bro you
gotta press it now i mean there's you gotta do it what happens nothing's happening it's just great
out i have no idea what you're talking about but maybe maybe i'm gonna share this yeah we're gonna
share this i send you back to you yeah you know not that brings up a really good point is that
why are they engaging with disney and the fact of the matter is is like you know maybe they're
you know this is the biggest ip play or maybe you can think of very cynically that they're running
out of ip right and this the entire problem with our entire entertainment you know content space
is that you know everything is just being rehashed over and over again the next franchises the you
know the safe plays and stuff like that so again like for the metaverse and what we've grown up
with and all the commercial bullshit that's kind of out here great nice metaverse of you know great
existing ip but you know and i think they're getting pressed into it and i think that's
another opportunity for us to create our own ip that's driven more from you know this web3
perspective and paul my spin on it actually is is very similar to yours knock um which is
i'm hopeful uh for a reason that i think is like tangentially or maybe directly related to what
you're saying which is tim's vision and epic's vision for what this metaverse can be is so
definitive at this point like you know and this is from conversations that you know i i've had
it's just an incredible opportunity to to work with folks who have been working directly with
epic on on this from back when fortnite wasn't even a battle royale all the way to where we are
today and have worked on you know these aspects of sort of fortnite graduating into this thing
that's so much bigger and what i've learned through that experience is they know tim knows
what is at stake now he knows the potential of this platform that that epic has you know
has in their hands and he's not going to squander that opportunity even for disney right and so but
i think to what sinjin was saying i'm not sure that that the way that tim looks at that he's
super precious about the ip itself like he you know he's obviously most excited about an open
metaverse and open platforms and so he wants to he wants it to be a home for all the beloved ip
in the world and so from his perspective i would imagine a deal with disney is the best thing ever
assuming disney plays ball assuming but but to to to nox point there's not a world in which
at this point in my opinion tim and epic is going to let go of that vision or let anyone else into
the driver's seat so you know i think what could happen like the bad version of this could be that
like tim and epic are uncompromising and that and that is just kind of like stalls like there
might be like things that both companies want to do but because you know of hard heads that
either company maybe they can't get things done as quickly or as expediently or as
cleanly as what we would hope um and that they can't necessarily meet the vision or the expectations
of of us as customers of disney of customers of of fortnite and and all the things that we hope
when we hear about a deal like this it's a question of whether they can deliver those
experiences that we all want but in terms of like the the hope that epic is going to be in
the driver's seat i i completely agree with knock i can't imagine at this point tim or epic
taking their hands off the wheel they they know and they have such a clear vision for what
is possible now and they're going to pursue that at any cost and i'm going over to parker from avacs
before we move on to the next topic yo i fixed my uh air pod so hopefully i don't sound like
shit apologies guys um i i totally agree with paul and knock surprisingly um i totally agree
with like last i guess season of fortnite um i'm not sure if anyone's into the cut scene cinematics
of like how they portrayed the new season but like if you followed that cut scene and just
watched like the players flying across all these different quote unquote metaverses into the
lego fortnite franchise and to the no build franchise i think it's clear that epic games
wants to create these different what i would say ip play environments of a metaverse and i
think they're just giving the power to disney to really be able to create their own you know
universe within and on top of epic games infrastructure that they've built um super
excited for that uh but with that said i i do think paul makes a good point of them stalling
and and maybe making things difficult but i think where the vision is is clear and so hopefully
just everybody is not too bureaucratic about it we can see some success here in the next couple
seasons i agree with you man i i ultimately at the end of the day i mean i was playing a little
devil's advocate but i am most hopeful for this not just because of where the companies are today
but you know the past successes that we've seen with things like um you know disney's integration
into other games like there's there's plenty of failures and things that we could point to and
say well that didn't work or that was lame but there's things like kingdom hearts that have
become truly beloved cross ip brands that that like you know didn't didn't sort of make sense
when you first heard of it and and you know and they pulled it off and they and they created this
thing where it's just an incredible game it's an incredible universe that brings many different
disney ip's together and it sort of is a proof case that like yeah this can work and so when you
look at that and disney has multiple examples of pulling that off and then to your point you also
look at the success that epic has had fusing brands and again it's not a hundred percent hit rate
but there's probably more successes than not in terms of their bringing ip into fortnite
and successfully like meeting customers expectations of people who love that ip
who love fortnite and the chocolate and peanut butter came together in a way that they were
really happy about so i think you know getting back to the original point of this like is it
a big deal not only is it a big deal because the size of the investment and the two companies
whatever i think it's a big deal because the track record of these two companies
pulling this off is actually better than not and the chances that this becomes something that
is just a world changing universe and metaverse that has all disney's ip i think it's it's really
good odds amazing stuff real quick before i go to knock for the last word just want to give a shout
out zac d dante mike nico yap jacksy tons of amazing comments and man especially after being
sick this morning being in the hospital it just warms my heart gets me really excited to see
everybody having a great time out there already zac d says fortnite is s tier all that matters
now is building ip that fortnite will recognize and adopt into its ecosystem dante says disney
on uefn is the insanely big deal fortnite is the metaverse and that just put an end to the debate
mike says sponsorships might be locked up however i heard sam's heart is not locked up and it's
valentine's day well you heard wrong because i'm engaged and nico says huge deal especially if
you're fortnite creative content creator and you're going to engage with fans from some of the
biggest fan bases out there plus epics payout to creators has been super generous empowering their
community to continue to generate content knock i'll go back to you yeah i've got two things neither
of which are directly related to the topic at hand but i just want to say and point out that
i'm collecting members of the avalanche gaming team like fucking infinity stones that was in a
park just agreed with me so that's three weeks in a row where i've converted them the second piece
is i'm not fucking crazy i shared the screenshot of the scissors i can't click the scissors nobody
knows what they are all right i'll go to jonah for 30 seconds paul for 30 seconds then we're
going to move on to the next topic jonah what you got yeah if you're annoyed i'm on an exercise bike
trying to get in shape hell yeah one thing about uh fortnite which i'm very bullish on
the disney metaverse is going to be very different than anything else on uefn uh the big constraint
on uefn is the data caps so any normal person building on there is not going to build like a
disney because of course disney is going to get probably like limitless data cap right so they're
going to be able to build like a lego level thing versus everyone else is still going to have
very limited data storage onto how in depth their uefn islands can be built so i think the big the
only constraint with the metaverse is actually when you reach a scale of epic size like how do
you manage data cap rates and how do you how do you know who to give more data size to you know
and that may be a thing that plays into the algorithm in the future is like it's a data
base play not a land limited land play yeah interesting uh added context there and knock
andy and mr house both say these scissors are clip recordings the host has to enable them
interesting i'll look out for that for next week uh while paul giving you the last word then we're
moving on i just love the one comment i forget who mentioned it knock but like looking at this
from the uefn perspective and i personally maybe there are folks out there talking about this but
i personally hadn't really encountered it and until you read out that comment which is like
what if what this actually leads to or part of what this leads to which is kind of what jonah
was just alluding to is the ability for uefn creators to create within the disney universe
so unlike like what you currently see with lego fortnite which is kind of like this very bespoke
thing like you can't necessarily go make your own lego game as i understand it maybe they're working
on it maybe that's in progress but it was kind of like this one-off experience but of course the
real exciting thing is as a uefn creator can i go make my own lego spin-off game in uefn and
similarly if this opens the door to uefn creators being able to build within and within the within
the disney ip universes and with disney characters and with disney ip and of course this is where it
starts running into the friction of like yeah then somebody's going to make the the porn game about
all the disney characters and that's gonna you know and so like there's a lot of a lot of issues
a lot of thorny issues there that epic is already having to navigate and roblox has to navigate
anyone who has a platform like this but if they're willing to crack that door open that could be so
incredible right like that's that's this holy grail that we've been talking about this whole time
companies like disney or nintendo beginning to get a little more permissive with the remix culture
and allowing other people to build incredible content within the ip that they own and had
traditionally kind of walled off like that that would be amazing and and so i i agree with that
comment or i think that that's that could be one of the biggest parts of the potential here really
great stuff guys that topic actually was much more interesting than i anticipated lemmes i'm
sending it to you to give away that first itopia node for people that were shouting out their
favorite intros and let's also give away an export one to one of the guys that have been uh been
dropping great comments already yeah shout out to jacksy jacksy's always here like every week and
then yeah another one for zac d as well he's always here week after week shout out to you guys on the
list happy valentine's day by the way uh anyway we move on factor fiction we're still not playing
enough attention to mobile gaming mobile gaming is now roughly 73 percent of the gaming market
when previously it was closer to 50 and then 25 and 25 kind of being console and pc uh so factor
fiction are we paying enough attention especially to web 3 gaming in or sorry mobile gaming in web 3
we've got titles like here's the maybe a blowing up army of fortune they've obviously had some
issues lately but that doesn't affect the actual game itself and then of course we got play ember
john hook on the stage today would love to get his input as well i think lemmes you have some
strong feelings on this one i'm gonna go to you first yeah this is straight up fact i think uh in
my eyes anyway in in web 3 we're subject to shiny object syndrome and it's way easier to have like
this shiny magical triple a super immersive metaverse mmorpg world use every buzzword
and paint a big picture and that's what people like to pay attention to and people like to gloss
over the fact that mobile you know absolutely prints on revenue and is way more accessible
but i think it's just because we're an attention economy and we like the shiny things that it's
easier to put a nice shiny cinematic trailer together and get people excited about it
well said i'm gonna go to koji then we'll go to john hook definitely fiction but only because
what's holding us back isn't isn't the desire to make mobile games or to integrate um nfts or
you know whatever web 3 elements into them it's the the you know the gatekeepers that that sort
of manage those areas are are pretty strict about allowing that sort of thing even more strict than
we thought uh epic and steam you know ended up being and so i think that when you uh when we see
those walls start to come down and and and it be a little bit less restrictive then you'll start to
see a lot more mobile plays um you know i know that even at parallel we've discussed a lot of
mobile stuff and maybe we have something cooking i don't know but um you know it's one of these
things that like it's not viable until the either we allow for other app stores on on on on phones
and those app stores actually take off you know i'm looking at you at the amazon app store on my
on my android phone that's absolute dog shit um or you know i don't think it'll happen
all right well said hadn't thought about that as well john hook your thoughts as a mobile game
publisher in web 3 yeah i mean there's some great points here and that's the thing when you
think about mobile game it's you know are you talking about like a native browser app and
completely agree if you are then you know apple and google definitely make it challenging versus
you know a progressive web app you know that's uh that's a mobile game right and that can be
enjoyed by by loads of people it's also accessible on browser and i think that's you know that's a
great fit for for web 3 but i didn't think we're sleeping on it there's loads of great
mobile games on it i think it's just you know in in time we're we're way behind uh like where
mobile games like is right now right so if you just look at that giant wheel of the global games
market and look at you know mobile games eating like over half half of all global games revenue
that's just very different to where we are in web 3 right now so i'm not sure it's the best
like analysis right now it's almost like we're starting at like browser pc um and then you also
need to look at like where the early adoption is in web 3 gaming as well it's just a complete flip
of mobile gaming's when you look at like the uh the geos that are just pioneering web 3 gaming
it's yeah it's just very different to like mobile web 2 games as well so i think there's a real mix
here i think the exciting opportunity for all of us is is you know working together to crack to
crack the code and there isn't just one code right and it's gonna it's gonna really differ by the
genre you're attacking but that's the opportunity here right to you know mobile gaming is doing
pretty good like we all love to shit on it but you know it's doing pretty good there are some
headwinds but you know it's still printing like billions of dollars but yeah there is a there is
a real opportunity here for us all to figure out um you know for each of the genres that we're
playing in what that next step up is for mobile gaming and and that's that's really cool
i want to hear from people in the comments as well because i know there's a lot of hysteria
obviously play amber whenever they had their mints going on army of fortune whenever they
had their stuff going on there's always hysteria around the mint itself but i'm curious what people
in the audience's actual favorite web 3 game is that they're genuinely playing is it play amber
heroes the maybe army of fortune etc let's go to jerry and then to jonah and i'll give a white list
out to somebody that answers that question that i just posed yeah i think a lot of it is just
biased from like where we all live right and i think we as people who live in like you know
tier one western countries like we clearly look at console and pc games as what is going to drive
gaming but mobile fucking crushes everything that people do on pc and console right like pal world
is this great success it will do a fraction of what monopoly go will do this year and there's
other games that are on the side this you know the size and scope of monopoly go white out survival
which is shit on for like their hyper casual ads that they've been running on games made 400 million
dollars last year right honor of kings is fucking enormous so i think where when we get in our bubble
we really do shit on mobile gaming but you know mobile is where most people play games it's very
accessible and like the games are genuinely getting fun like i spend you know 30 minutes
to an hour every day probably playing some sort of mobile game i'm stuck on white out survival
right now so you know i think a lot of it is we just need to get out of like the bubble that we
live in and see what's happening in gaming right and then we look at web three and where you know
those geos those same geos that are driving honor of kings and pubg mobile are the same geos that
are pretty accepting of web three and web three and what we all stand for would make a huge impact
in those regions so you know i don't think we i mean yes i don't think we pay enough attention
to it i think a lot of that is just bias from from where we're where we all live and our experiences
no disrespect but america is not a tier one country sorry guys
okay dude if you guys hear this guy fucking say like anything about the six or t dot fucking
toronto stand up jerry got rubbed clearly uh the twitter must be a canadian i got a phone call
uh a couple of great comments real quick ramen cash says the day when i can one tap buy a digital
web three asset from my phone will be the beginning of the mobile rush i don't like opening
two or three windows to log in and collect or buy i couldn't agree more with that one maria
also says there are constraints but there are good experiences that can be implemented within
those constraints we've investigated this in fableborn another one of my favorite mobile games
the web three she says mobile gaming is 50 of the gaming market of what john said in terms of early
adopters and being primarily mobile first gamers jonah i'll send it over to you next
yeah uh fact and fiction fiction mobius numbers are not real uh that's based on analytics from
data ai so anyone who has a data ai account can do basic research you know if you have a data if
you're in mobile everyone has a data ai account formally app any pretty well known now they do
have users just not a million so you know that's that's fiction on mobius side on the fact that
mobile gaming is going to continue to grow i think it's going to be web three sweet spot
and i've already been working with several pwa companies that haven't announced anything yet and
the pwa tech has progressed significantly like whatever you saw from friend tech it's like 10x
in terms of tech uh from what i've seen you're going to see that this year i think well said
appreciate that out of the context justin lucas says i'm playing heroes of maybe i'm getting
stomped regularly trying to get my headquarters to level four that sounds uh unfortunately not
very fun it comes rattle what are you thoughts yeah i i think it's a fact for sure and one specific
case that comes to mind for me is with triple-a games having a companion mobile app um that is
like equally as fun equally as interesting and like can be a kind of a like a mass market
acquisition tool for the the triple-a game is just it feels like a wide ocean out there for that
that type of mobile uh type of game and and i just i'm not seeing it across the market yet
i'm going to give one of those uh white lists for the hytopia notes to kobe streams he says
mavia mah which i'm not sure what that stands for mix mob tally up and ember pinball are all of my
go-to titles uh on web 3 mobile gaming right now big shout out kobe appreciate that and park you
just put your hand down did you want to chime in on this before we move on or should i just go to
the next subject yeah no i'll mention i think it's a fact um and i think it's a product of
investment in infrastructure if i were to try to put my pin on i think everybody's had good
points but i think if we figure out you know ability to get to market quickly in web 3 is
predominantly an issue because of infrastructure shout out stardust being here um they're
definitely a you know team that focuses on this but i think mobile infrastructure was a little
later to the game just because of where blockchain and crypto natively come from right it's a web
wallet that's kind of you know what metamask is and then products have been created in order to
make it more seamless and efficient for game developers to deploy and for users to interact
with the application and i just think that mobile is not quite there on the infra side
um from an investment into infrastructure but i think we are getting there and and once it's
there it's going to shoot off way faster than what i would call triple-a games in you know console
and browser but that's that's my take no i'm tagging you in for the last word yeah i think
one of the biggest things that people tend to just gloss over when talking about mobile which is just
ridiculous to me is is the distribution or the potential for distribution when you're talking
about mobile games literally anybody on earth who has a phone from the last decade can play pretty
much any game that exists in mobile markets whereas very few relatively very few people have
computers that can handle modern games or consoles that can handle modern games i think the other
piece is most of the western world especially travels or commutes to work i think that this
is probably true globally as well but that commuting time is time that a lot of people spend
playing two to three minute game sessions i think the combination of accessibility the fact that
you've got built-in distribution everybody has the product that written that you know is needed to
actually play these games makes mobile like a no-brainer i think it's just western markets
like to downplay it because we're really caught up on the pc and console similar to what jerry said
well said lem's got the hand up what you what you got buddy
now shout out charlie blackstock in the comments he's saying that one tap buys on mobile are
already happening on farcaster this is going to spur crypto adoption for millions of gamers so
shout out charlie i know he's been building on farcaster and and that's been a lot of hype
recently so maybe it's coming sooner than we think yeah charlie actually while he was out here showed
me a lot of really really cool things on farcaster um he has a sick project called far world over
there if anybody's looking to do some like collecting stuff get some far world exposure
it's really really don't make sure you check that out while paul um i just wanted to put a little
bit of spin on what nak was saying um i guess everybody's kind of tried to make make this point
is that uh that we don't give mobile enough credit and that um you know we tend to to downplay its
significance in market share um you know i had an opportunity to be there when this was all getting
started and i i'm very very familiar with the opportunities that exist in mobile and i i
constantly question why this is the case and i you know in the past i've used this this this argument
that we've been talking about oh there's just a regional bias or whatever there's just one other
reason i wanted to inject into the conversation for consideration which is we have yet to really
see mobile be an ip pioneer like a lot of these games that you guys are talking about um
reach incredible scale in terms of users but still somehow are not able to reach the scale
in terms of like cultural impact and and ip impact and and the ability to like give birth to
something like a like an ip like league of legends or like last of us or you know any
that disney ip's we were talking about and i don't really know why this is the case i don't
know why mobile can't lead ip creation and and you know building giant beloved ip
brands in the same way that console and pc can but for those reasons and i think the fact that web
three is you know sort of a lot it has a lot of overlap in value between you know what we care
about in web three and what we tend to look for in great ip i think that's part of the reason as
well why we tend to not or there tends to be a little bit of a damper damper on our enthusiasm
for you know for like web three mobile projects it's because we're we're we part of it i think
is because we wish to see that a mobile game can be a breakout you know ip but it just hasn't
happened yet from a mobile first perspective or at least not that i can think of i mean there's
been a massive mobile ip games like like pokemon go as an example but those were based on ip that
came from other platforms this is a really interesting conversation i see a bunch of hands
popped up i'm gonna give everybody 30 seconds that we are going to move on starting with john hook
see i just want to pick up on jonah's point here because i think it's really important when we
think about like mobile gaming and we talk about distribution anyone can just go buy a bunch of
installs right it's really not difficult that the hard thing that still applies to cracking web
three gaming is then distributing your game to people that matter and that that's still a skill
so i think that's definitely something that um you know you need to pay a lot of attention to
when you think about oh yeah i'm just gonna promote my web three games a mobile gaming
audience right you're just making some huge assumptions in there that it's that easy and
you just go and buy low ads and um yeah off you go so i think people need to pay attention to
where their mobile game and who it's being distributed to great point singe i'll go to
you next yeah i'm like um i'm glad uh you know paul brought up what he did and i think john has
some great points and i was gonna like i'm just kind of sitting here and listening to everybody and
you know i just was thinking like you know that term gutless winks was like so relevant now i'm
sure everyone kind of gets where we're at and you know i was just feeling the whole panel was a
bunch of fucking gutless winks because you know you guys are all infatuated with you know where
the metaverse is going but it's almost like the beginning of the end right and we're talking about
mobile games and you know paul says about the ip and that's really the key point because like
where are we at with you know web 3 and stuff like that should not be on you know how profitable
something can be or how much you know eyeballs can get on it right now it should be creating
this product which has ownership and you know everyone's talking as there are consumers and
you know this can be the best thing for us as consumers where we're kind of totally missing
the point here so i hope we get kind of back on track with everyone's minds i mean it's great i
mean i love the ip plays you know who doesn't love money and stuff like that right but you're
you know you know we're here not for you know being consumers we're here to be
in the new structure of ownership well said nak yeah i i think broadly i agree with paul
when it comes to just ip and not having a whole ton of like really prominent ip coming out of the
mobile space but for me like one of the most dominant ip in the gaming like entirety of gaming
is clash of clans and and what you've seen at a supercell like they have a studio that is mobile
first they have a bunch of games they've done an excellent job a few years ago with a marketing
campaign i can still hear hog writer scream hog writer um like it's like ingrained into my brain
and there's uniformity across all of their titles like you know when you're looking at a
supercell title because it feels like a supercell game there's not a whole lot of it but i really
don't think that there's a whole ton of that in most of gaming anyway like you have exceptional
cases you have studios that you know deliver high quality games all of the time but i really do feel
like we've seen it in mobile just not as frequently as we've seen it in maybe pc or console first i
know well so i love that point because i've been waiting this whole time for a supercell ip to take
a pole position in in the in the sort of cultural relevance of of like a nintendo brand or you know
or something and it's it's crazy to me that despite their insane reach they still there isn't still
this like you know just entire category of like netflix cartoons that are based in supercell and
movies and all these other things that you would you would see come from much smaller console or pc
games and i like i'm just waiting for that to happen i i want it to happen and i've been wondering
this entire time since i've been on this journey as a mobile developer myself like why you know is
it because of the smaller screen and the and form factor that we just generally don't think of those
ip's in the same way that we think of things that show up on our tv because it's a console plugged
in like i don't know i i think that moment is still yet to happen i i hope that it's supercell
that pulls it off or something but i i think if we're being fair and honest it's still really
though hasn't happened we all do know supercell ip but we're not like swimming in it in the way
that we are with like the top console and pc franchises just a quick just question to that
point is that because of like age and and time and market like supercell is the studio that's
been around for 14 years right even the most recent like native pc first studio that i can
remember that has created like a really transcended ip was riot which is still like half a decade
older than supercell when you're talking about teams like nintendo you're talking about teams
that are like half right yeah well that's why i'm that's why i don't think it i'm not saying it's
not going to happen i'm just waiting for it to happen because once that threshold is crossed
suddenly this argument will go away and people will be like okay mobile can lead ip in the same
way the pc and console but because when we all evaluate this we just tend to think or like what
are those things and they're coming from from pc and console and that's what creates that bias
that's what i was saying that makes us think oh mobile doesn't do that but i think you're right i
think it could just be a timing thing and maybe we're right on the cusp of this next generation
of mobile led ip which i would love to see jon i'll give you the last word then we move on
um yeah i could definitely see paul's perspective i think i think it's going to change really quickly
um for example you would say that roblox ip is technically not mobile but there's a lot of
roblox mobile on ipad users like more than people would expect and i can guarantee you adopt me
is a brand in schools that people know um and i think like the meaning of ip is really changing
um you know i have a an nft key right i put in one of my games with improbable and then another
guy's putting it in in fortnite and if fortnite goes mobile on android at least right they can
use that ip in fortnite if they think that's interesting and then i could go do it with a
mobile pwa i i think it's it's really changing and i think that change was earmarked by xbox cloud
and uh in particular i think uh the console war is officially over i think it's been made
abundantly clear that we've reached a point in technology where ip is very trans trans purpose
now and i think that what paul's saying was true i'm not convinced that's true anymore especially
when the biggest uh way of consuming media now in america at least is tiktok and uh i see a lot
of mobile ads on tiktok uh maybe that's just because they're targeting me but i wouldn't
be surprised if like mobile like quality got better and you start seeing a lot of tiktok
content around that and then that forms a different ip that you don't see on netflix like it goes
azuki is a perfect example like azuki from what i understand they're putting their anthology
series like right to tiktok or whatever they're not even going to netflix for their anthology
series from what i'm aware right so this direct to a consumer may change the way we see brands
i think you're totally right john i think the question we should be asking is is there is
there going to be a breakout mobile hit that drives a billion tiktok views not drives the
next netflix show i think that's totally right right look at it but it's still exactly not
exactly what's happening i mean i think i don't know i'm not like i don't spend as many hours as
my kids watching tiktok all day well two weeks ago everyone celebrated the ten two years ago
or not sorry if not two two weeks ago everyone on the internet celebrated the 10-year anniversary
of flappy bird which is very much i think it's a mobile game right so people do celebrate mobile
brands just in a very different way than they celebrate mario mario from fableborn in the
comments also mentioned clash of clans and genshin impact as two mobile titles that have
performed really well andy from stardust i know you haven't had a second to chime in since you're
at dice i'll send it to you then we're gonna move on and and i won't chime in because i'm
gonna pass the baton on to rich i have a bunch of meetings stacked up that i have to go do
so rich is in the in the i'm gonna you know step down and let rich come take the spot and put the
baton for stardust if that's okay yeah absolutely would love to have mr rich cabrera back in the
building got to meet rich at gdc last year great dude and amplify your applause and acclaim for our
electrifying game sponsor shrapnel the paramount the pinnacle the prime official game of game of
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extraction pack i also pinned up a comment that i left saying if you want an extraction pack or
reply to this anybody that replies to this i will try my best to get you guys some extraction packs
i didn't tell them i was going to do that before the show so it's not a guarantee but i will try
my best i think i might be able to finesse them for a few i see them hitting them the 100 emoji
so i think it's approved and how can we forget stardust the official infrastructure of game
of five feast your eyes on their wallets as a service tooling a magical mechanism making
metaverse management a breeze this invisible ingenious innovation offers a white label wonder
weaving web 2 simplicity with the wizardry of web 3 with over 150 chains at your command including
evm's sui salana stardust stands as the supreme steward in your in-game gold and guardian of
your gamer's gains and worry not the wily ways of the web safe stardust safeguards the sanctity of
your player's stash shouldering the logistics and the liability and behold the behemoth the
bash in the bedrock it's avalanche the colossus of the crypto climate stands unshaken as it slices
through icy skepticism like a scorching sword cutting a crystal clear path through the blizzard
of bewilderment avalanche is not just a platform it's a pathfinder of pioneer a prodigy and it's
the official blockchain of game of five with valor and bigger avalanche ventures that lead into the
very vortex of volatility it's not just a ledger it's the load star leading us through the labyrinth
of the unknown the light guiding us to the lands of logic and lucidity we move on to mr paul
bettner's story time in the apple vision pro i've been looking forward to this for like
two consecutive weeks i'm going to tell you guys the next person who wins a white list is going
to be somebody that retweet the show so if you want to get those in while you can but paul take
us away man kick this one off all right i'm gonna i'm gonna keep it more brief than a normal story
time though because honestly i i'm here to tell you i don't think the apple vision pro is going
to have a much of an impact on what three games and the topics that we are all most excited about
in this particular twitter space in this particular community um but i know we all love technology i
know we all love games and it's going to have an impact a huge impact on those things so um but
i'll but i'll keep it a little bit briefer for that reason i as as in the spirit of story time
let's go back to the days after i had just uh left zinga um after having supposed to have stayed
there for four years at the terms of our words of friends sale and the acquisition um not that i
had to but as we had talked about i think in a previous story time my vesting terms for zinga
stock were spaced over four years and so i would have captured the most upside by just staying
there but there were these things happening in uh in the games industry and in the emerging
technology of virtual mixed reality that i was so excited about i couldn't just sit there and what
what do they call it rest and vest my zinga stock i decided to leave two years early left a lot of
money on the table a lot of zinga stock on the table because i was ready to start uh our next
game studio which was originally called verse because i thought that was a cool sort of play
on vr and and just a neat name um we are now actually playful doing or verse doing business
as playful technically um but the company's called playful that's the parent of wildcard
anyhow one of the conditions of my uh of the sale to zinga and i don't know this is an nda but
doesn't matter um is that i wasn't able to directly compete with zinga's products during that term i
wasn't i wasn't like able to go launch a words of friends three and compete with their work on
words of friends two or whatever for obvious reasons um but that happened to align with this
personal interest i had and i've had really my entire career i mean i if you're a game developer
and you're not fascinated in the the the obvious future platform that we're all eventually heading
towards where we either have you know neural implants or optic nerve things or contact lens
or whatever and we're literally existing inside the game universes i mean we've been dreaming
about this since the first time i read a science fiction book about it right all game developers
i think well would inevitably say yeah maybe it's 10 years away maybe it's 30 years away maybe it's
five years away but whatever it is the ultimate end platform for video games is going to be some
form of mixed reality verse reality augmented reality so i've been dreaming about this forever
and what i perceived was at that moment maybe the technologies were there for this kind of
thing to happen and and like vr has like had false starts for many times in the game industry
right going on back to the 80s um but i you know with my exposure to some mobile technologies and
and other things like i was like i think this is time so i sent an email to john karmak who's a
friend here in texas you guys i'm i'm sure a lot of you know him he's the creator of doom and quake
and id software and anyway been working uh you know kind of adjacent to him since the 90s because
he's a fellow game developer out here in dallas um and i sent him this big email and and it was
just this like i don't know rant or preaching or whatever that was like i think the time is now
john like i think the technologies are here and you're the first person i thought of in terms of
reaching out and and just brainstorming this and and i just said i'm just like passionate uh plea
for like you know can we work on this together and he basically sends me this brief email that he's
like basically like duh like i figured this out you know a couple years ago and actually i don't
know a lot of people don't know about this but i've been working on this for a while i've been
working on with this kid called palmer who's uh who's got this like little startup called oculus
he's got some pretty cool stuff so you should probably connect with him and like he made an
introduction from me to palmer and then kind of connected up if you guys know the end of that
story john ended up becoming the cto for oculus and was the cto at meta facebook when they acquired
them so that obviously ended up going quite far i got integrated with oculus early on um and said
look i'm really excited about this stuff they we flew out there and the funny little side story is
i was also a backer of that kickstarter at the highest level i think was like five thousand
dollars or whatever and one of the things you got from being a backer of that of the oculus
kickstarter was a private trip out to visit the oculus team and so separately i was having this
email going with some of the oculus team about hey we have this new startup we're the guys who made
boards of friends age vampires we want to make a game and and we really want to make a vr game
let's work together whatever so in parallel i had this like kickstarter reward thing happening at
the same time we had this conversation and we flew out there and for the first hour of our meeting
where we sat down in the conference room with oculus and we're talking about all this stuff
they thought we were just the guys there because we won the kickstarter reward and they and then
like it was only like 45 minutes of the conversation where they're like wait like why are you making it
sound like you're here to work with us like we thought you guys were here for the kickstarter
they were like no no we're the guys who want to build games with you guys so anyway that was
hilarious but that started the the the the discussion the the conversations and eventually
the working relationship and and got a chance to to work with those very early oculus prototypes
and so as all this relates to the vision pro this was god what was it this is almost 10 years ago
right more than 10 years ago uh that i think is the time frame of what we're talking about if you
when the original oculus kickstarter happened if you guys want to google that it's that date when
all this stuff was happening um and i saw the potential in it like like we were right john and
i were right it was the time the technology had finally gotten to the point where you could create
something small enough to wear on your face that could also convincingly recreate reality in a way
that was just like shocking right i for any of you mostly probably in the show have experienced
this now the first time that you experienced the current sort of modern incarnation of vr
it's it is that dream come true there is a lot of trade-offs there's a lot of compromises a lot of
things that aren't there yet that keep this from being this mass market consumer dream
platform that we know it's going to be but one thing that is true is that it does deliver
convincingly the experience of being in another reality and even from that original oculus duct
tape prototype that polymer and john put in my hand back in the day it was already there i was
i'll never forget the first moment it wasn't when i put on the headset it was when i took it off
after maybe like five minutes of running around a doom level inside inside the headset
and for like a good 10 seconds i was heavily disoriented i had to remind myself oh wait i'm
in the oculus office i'm in california i'm not actually in a doom level like like my brain
revolted against the the contrasting realities that it just experienced by literally lifting
the headset off my face and that convinced me like i was right this technology has crossed
this crossed the threshold okay that was like i said over 10 years ago the apple vision pro
is the continuation of that journey it is by far the closest anyone's gotten to something
that can be a consumer device but it's clear to me that even apple understands this is not yet
that consumer device obviously if it was they wouldn't price it at 3500 that's their clear
message to the world this is not a device meant for you know an average consumer to buy and have
a great time with this is instead the first professional creative platform meant that apple
has launched meant for right now mostly developers and creative professionals looking to begin to
build these apps or continue to build these apps because for some of us have been doing it for 10
years now because that like this and it's also in the name of the device itself right apple vision
pro what that implies is that apple vision not pro is coming in the future that will be that device
but i'm here to tell you clearly if you haven't heard it from all the reviews the apple vision
pro is not that yet it's meant it's more like a mac than it is an iphone is kind of the way to
think about it but the experience of using it is not just like incrementally better than other
headsets i've used it is fundamentally better in a way that this is probably the first headset
and and you know i hate saying this because i've loved every headset i've worked with and every
partner we've worked with it's all amazing technology but most of every other headset
i've ever used when i put it on i'm having this amazing experience but i'm also there's part of
my brain that's like i can't wait to get this thing off my head it's heavy it's it's awkward
it's not it's not exactly right i'm feeling a little bit you know disoriented or whatever and
the vision pro is the first headset that for some reason i'm actually looking forward to when i can
put it back on rather than when i can take it off so you know it's a combination of factors
it's the ecosystem as people talk about the fact that all my apple apps are there that i can just
pull up twitter that i can pull up the browser that i can pull up messages that i can use my
computer in there it's the fact that that even though it's a small incremental improvement that
it's just high enough resolution that text is actually legible that i can use it as a monitor
which shouldn't be the first headset that pulls it off but it is it's also the pass-through the
fact that i can exist in the world while i'm wearing the headset it's still awkward to have
one of my kids walk up to me but it's not it's just not awkward enough to be something that i'm
willing to do in the middle of the day and actually do work from inside the headset and
it's the first one that's achieved that so that's a big milestone but we still have a ways to go to
that consumer device but as i've told you guys before it's coming and it will be the end all be
all platform that changes everything about every technology and every every product we work on but
we're still probably i mean again i'm the optimist if you ask me i'd say less than five years from
that platform other people would probably tell you 10 to 15 years but anyway so yeah there's my story
thanks paul man what an amazing uh treat to be able to get the insight from somebody like him
with his experiences i was listening to the all-in podcast this week and they had an interesting
over under where they were saying in the next five years over under a hundred billion dollars
in sales and surprisingly they were actually like on the cusp some of them said over some of them
said under but mostly because of the technical ways that it could be utilized in like warehouses
and shipping and in medical and you know to your point that the professional use cases for them
but i didn't think about how they could just drop the pro and make a more consumer friendly
headset in the future that's that and that would be my main reason why it's over is because what'll
happen in the next five years is people will see oh shit the mass market consumer device is coming
now i have to get my hand as a developer i have to get my hands on one of these things because
it's the only way to start building app service the same reason that that the mac has any relevance
at all is because it's still the only platform you can actually develop ios apps on right and so
there's going to be that factor where if you want to develop for that device that apple is going to
release in the future you'll have to be using this pro device that's much more expensive to do it and
that's going to drive sales more than anything coach your hand went up somewhere in there i'd
love to get your input as well uh first of all i just want to say put some respect on the virtual
boy please because uh it came it was two episodes ago we fully disrespected the virtual boy but yeah
no we didn't you did paul i did i still have mine um and love it but but uh i also just want
to say that i i completely agree with paul that like this is definitely going to be the future i
remember the first time i put on an oculus uh and it blew my mind and i still have a video of my
uh of my mother experiencing the tyrannosaurus rex loose in the uh in the museum little bit
that the demo that they had and it is one of the the greatest things i've ever seen so i think that
like what as soon as we can get like the killer app and the immersion spot on like it it's over
it's over for the human race basically we're gonna be like the people in wall-e i love that
you brought up the dinosaur example because this is a great just just a great little anecdote to
talk about the apple vision pro versus other headsets i don't know why this is the case but
every vr headset that i've ever used has had a dinosaur demo i don't know why but we all
apparently as humans think that that's the coolest thing that we could possibly experience
in virtual reality as a dinosaur and so of course the apple vision pro has its own
and having experienced i've literally experienced every other dinosaur demo in every other headset
and this one still made me gasp like i literally gasped i i stepped back a little bit i was i was
just breathless for a second because the apple visions pro's rendering of this particular content
was that far beyond any other dinosaur demo i've done in any other video headset so for what it's
worth that's awesome i'm gonna send it to lens for a giveaway then we're gonna move on but again
paul huge thank you for waxing poetic and giving us my pleasure i did have one question for you
first paul because i know we talked about the apple vision pro last summer whenever it was
announced on gamified and i remember you were kind of disappointed with the the trailer for it and
how it was going to work what totally flipped your mindset from i'm so glad you asked that
a little bit boring or whatever and then yeah super excited i didn't mention that in any of the
in what we were just talking about and i'm really glad you brought it up because i was super
skeptical about this from seeing their initial announce of the device i was just like oh man
it's another vr headset like i i see that it's all amplified and it's all shiny and glass and
aluminum or whatever and it's got this high price but i don't fundamentally see what it's pushing
forward and what's hard to talk about when it comes to the vision pro just like it's pretty
much been the case with my entire journey in vr's it's always hard to describe the experience you
just have to experience it but i it's it's a combination of factors that's kind of what i
was calling out like it's the ecosystem it's the lenses it's the eye tracking it's the inside out
cameras it's whatever that the combination of those things pushed it over pushes this device
over a threshold of usability that i couldn't tell apple was going to achieve when i just saw
the renderings of the device and and the marketing for the device it just looked to me like another
vr headset but it turns out in daily use it is just over this threshold of productive usability
that is is the thing that makes all the difference in my opinion that's awesome i've been heavily on
the fence about getting one uh this might tip me over the edge mr robert house is going to win
one of those white lists i was talking about and we're going to give them the export Prometheus
chestplate free mints that are coming up from export a big shout out to them for giving us
those to give away uh for retweeting the space big thanks uh robert house for always supporting
the show we're going to move on it's conference season it's coming up big my curiosity is peaked
with this whenever it comes to gdc i've said it before i'll say it again i met so many of the
amazing people that are now integral in my daily life we talked about charlie blackstock earlier
today jerry i met for the first time at gdc mr wild paul koji sinjin some of these guys i knew in
real life or sorry i knew on the internet knock as well but i met them for the first time at gdc
and the amount that our relationships have flourished since then is insane so i definitely
am a huge advocate for going to gdc i think anybody that is serious about being in in web3
gaming should be there but i'm curious about these chain specific conferences that i keep seeing
pop up obviously were sponsored by avax avax summit was just announced to be in buenos
ares this year i'm really really excited to potentially go i haven't completely made up my
mind we also had salona breakpoint which was in europe this year near con which i believe was in
portugal this year etc my question for the panel is who should be going to these chain specific
conferences and like what's the target audience and what should i expect if i do go to these
chain specific conferences because i've never been to one and i have no idea what the value proposition
is for like the everyman uh koji has the hand up first i don't know what the answer for the everyman
is to be honest but from my perspective and in my experience going to a lot of uh varying types of
conferences i think that like the most important thing is like attendance numbers and that's not
for i mean me as a game if i'm showing off the game sure attendance is great but just in general
i think the amount of people that you can meet because what these conferences end up being at
least for me is like if i spend even half of a day at the actual conference it's like a miracle
right it's really just about who's in town at the same time and how can we get together to see if
if they're you know if we can build a relationship build a friendship whatever and see how we can work
together maybe meet up with some investors or if you're an investor meet up with at you know
spine interesting projects that sort of thing and so i think that like it's more about the surrounding
element of the conference and that really only starts to flourish when uh the conference is
larger enough potentially unless you're like you know super nerd and you really want to like dig
into the details of the you know how the how the that specific kane's tech works or whatever but
otherwise i would just say like if you're going to like shake hands and build relationships and
and you know try and expand your business like you're just looking for numbers
dub at the end of next yeah i definitely believe that the web 3 gaming industry is
so new that the all of the conferences no matter how much we want them to be
for consumers and grabbing consumers their their industry conferences like i i think very heavily
back to 3 xp and how we all envisioned that we were going to be surrounded by consumers
literally the day before then to just find out that we were all just going to be hanging out
um with one another and having a good time which was fine but and definitely for people right now
if you're looking at this going to a conference like especially if you're interested in working
in this industry in some sort of fashion like this is where you should be now and this is the time to
get involved um for sure i'd love to tag in parker who i believe was at uh the evac summit last year
your thoughts here yeah i think there's mixed reviews in the audience but for me last year
um actually the year before that um so the first year of avalanche summit was i had gotten my this
little park story time sorry paul i don't want to steal the limelight but uh i got my offer to
join the avalanche gaming bd team that uh week before the summit and so i didn't actually get
to attend um but with that said just sat in my room watching the live stream just severe
fomo the entire time um and so i think from like a bd perspective it's a huge opportunity to not
only network with people within your community but really just get the face to face time with
real builders i think web3 space at large is just predominantly online and anonymous
um and i think it's really refreshing to get that kind of you know real life experience with these
you know twitter and ons with that said this is a gaming spaces so let's talk about the gaming
emphasis that you know us at avalanche are putting forth for the summit i think last year was super
fun experience from showcasing games with that said the games that were playable were really
only in the early alpha stages i think this year is going to be 10x the amount of just irl
experience whether it's through tournaments that we're hosting or just really having people on the
ground playing fun games throughout the entire event um it's something that you just can't do
um at some of these other events um so yeah i think i've also been voluntold to put together
a super dope gaming happy hour so if you have cool ideas on what buenas aris would look like
for a gaming happy hour i'm open my uh my notepad is um pretty empty right now but i'm getting
started let's go dude that sounds super fun i'm gonna send it over to wild paul we got the handout
i i just think it's uh it's totally good you know like koji was saying i the the identity i
personally didn't expect three asp to be uh via consumer shelf like i i guess i've gone through
this experience before now with with emerging parts of the gaming industry whether it's mobile
free to play whatever and it always starts off with like well we kind of wish this was a consumer
event but really it's just all of us developers hanging around and maybe a handful of early
adopters that are mainly there to meet their the the developers that they love and like you know
they have that kind of very high loyalty relationship that comes from early adopting
but that's okay you know i i think it's up to the conference itself to decide where it wants to go
with that identity i think it's unreasonable for any conference at the kind of emergence of an
industry like this to expect to be a consumer focused conference like you you have to have
like the thing that that that uh that kind of holds up the value of a consumer conference something
like blizz con or pax or dream hack is everybody's getting together to enjoy these games that they've
already been in love with for 10 years right like we well we can't have the benefit of that
with with a brand new industry and a brand new set of games and so it's fine i think for our
identity to be more focused on early adopters and on industry professionals and on you know serving
that audience initially because we still have that road ahead of us to grow that relationship that
just takes time with consumers before we're going to be able to run our own blizz con but um but yeah
we can't we can't wait for that moment but until then it's okay like i don't think we need to worry
that we don't have our our packs yet because of course like like y'all are saying like we're still
at that point where those games are are just now starting to come out and koji yeah sorry i'm
that was the best rug yeah sorry about koji you back i'll give you one more chase
down bad cindy got the hand up cindy yeah you know i've been to a lot of these uh you know
conferences and stuff like that i actually was a volunteer at eath denver as well uh last year and
it was a great experience i just wanted to be on the floor there and the reason why i volunteered
was um because i hadn't been there before and um i didn't really know anybody really in the
ecosystem out in in the west in asia i did but not in the in the west and so it was a great
experience but i think for games though it was it was still kind of weak i think i met pexels
when i was out there actually and i had been conversation with luke for about an hour and a
half and stuff like that um i think for the most part you know you'll go there and you'll see all
the defi people and all the other things the other daps that are out there and it's it's a very
different world and so i think just for exposure i think conferences in general you know like you
have to end up going anyways if you're serious about the industry meeting people in real life
is a huge difference i mean the fact that i've met you guys and paul and and koji in real life
and nog and uh you know makes me feel like when i talk about um our relationship that it has
something more to it because we've met in real life it's not just kind of whatever but i think
in terms of information gathering a lot of times you go to these conferences like and people are
just shilling and so like probably about like 90 percent of the panels are like just total like
waste of time right so you're gonna go and you're gonna meet people and find you know your tribe
there um but i would say for the most part you know defi is always going to be a big part of
all these chains narratives and once the bull market gets you know up and running maybe gaming
will be pushed aside again so you know pick wisely i think going to all these ones i mean
you know obviously anyone who's a bag holder in like something like cordano or whatever like that
there's some kind of slightly cultish behavior and stuff like that but you know it's good to get
around but like spending your time going to conferences all the time like i wonder about
that like founders there with booths and stuff like that i'm like when are they actually working
on their product so yeah well said there's especially uh spring time and fall time seems
so saturated with events that it is uh possible to just kind of get stuck going back to back to
back to back to back and not actually getting much done koji you're back yeah i don't know i went on
a rant there not realizing that i got disconnected but i just wanted to say that uh i want to amend
my previous answer uh and say that if you're a true d gen i think that like going to some of
these conferences and meeting these people you can get a sense as to like who's for real and who's
full of smoke and mirrors i you know i met i met sam at one of these conferences and uh realized
that he was you know the real deal and a nice guy and not actually just like you know some guy
trying to weasel his way through web 3 or whatever and so i decided then and there like i'm just going
to be on every single one of these spaces that i'm allowed to be on and you know as well i met like
i met sinjin and and he sometimes he comes off as a bit of a character uh over the internet on
these spaces but like in actuality he's a absolute mad genius and complete uh one of the
nicest guys i've ever met you know my first experience with uh this space i was being yelled
at being called the gutless wank or at least inadvertently being called the gutless wank
because i'm a web two and a half guy that's a random passage uh and i thought like oh my god
i don't know like this guy's gonna hate me and then i met him and i was like this like it
completely changes your perspective on the people actually building this stuff and so i think that
it is like uh you know if you are early and actually you want to uh i'll use invest in air
quotes and some of these projects like doing some homework in person is it could be important
that's really well said koji appreciated you uh giving those kind words out i definitely
expected it to go a completely different direction uh with with your sarcastic nature at times but
that was really genuine and beautiful thank you man dubs rap no i had the hand up yeah i just
wanted to know i missed the opportunity to tell koji that i would walk a thousand miles
to play parallel colonies beta at any moment um and then to just double down on like literally
everything that i did at events kind of led to to me being at trapnal and that was a huge win
for myself personally and it was because i like made that effort to make sure that i could be
there for those things and to connect with these people well said and i'll echo that i've went to
v con to gdc and three xp last year paid my own way to all of them and i can confidently say that
all of those things all those conferences have paid for themselves and the connections that i
made the friends that i made having koji on the show i would pay thousands of dollars for that
so i i do believe that there's like a monetary value associated with these things that are
intangible uh but huge shout out to everybody uh can't wait to see you guys at gdc so many more
announcements coming for wolves den hopefully i'll see you in bueno serres as well at the avacs
summit we're moving on chad or chump pixels edition pixels the game on ronin that's been
getting a lot of headlines for their play to airdrop campaign there is some interesting things
going on i need you guys to bear with me i gotta read through a lot of stuff here okay so there's
a bunch of fun on the timeline from community members that were complaining whenever they
realized that the token allocation for the airdrop or the community was quote unquote i'm using
koji's air quotes 34 percent was too small and then some people countered by saying the team
allocation was only 12 and a half percent and that that was actually too small so the team
might not be incentivized i'm going to read through a couple of tweets here so austin white said
is this a joke in tagged pixels what happened to community first like heidi talked about uh is
pixels culture only giving 34 percent of your allocation to loyal communities that you owe
pixel success to even counting the seven percent on the launch pool which is absurd uh for some
projects i'd expect to this but the entire ethos of pixels has been community first these tokenomics
paint a very different picture actions speak louder than words then our head of research
at uh wolfsdow mr spark c you might have heard of him says my reaction is the exact opposite
the pixel team only got 12 and a half percent even with the treasury they still get less than
one third of the tokens stop letting greed turn you irrational and remember how incentives work
if you want the team to care about the token price you want them to own plenty of tokens
who's the asshole here and what's the ideal distribution of tokens to community and team
members etc etc wild paul go to you this is such a tricky topic to wade into uh so rather than
directly wade into it i just want to anecdotally provide a little bit of of experience and and
sort of storytelling from my perspective watching a lot of this go down it just reminded me of the
same kind of conversations that that i've been a part of for ever since i've been in the position
of owning a company or being a part of equity distribution as an employee or as an employer
i've experienced this thing where you can you can literally sit down with the exact
same number of like stock options or equity or whatever it is with person a and they can like
see that value and just be in tears with how grateful they are and how how they perceive
that value and then you can sit down with person b in exactly the same situation everything else
and they could be like why did i only get one percent of this company like there's a hundred
total percent right why why is it that i only get one of the hundred you know and it's like
and this could be like some employee right out of college right some like green person who's never
like and it's just and and and you can come into that conversation thinking this was the
most generous offer ever and because of that person's just lack of experience with equity as
as a vehicle for value uh it and and for that reason it's always such a challenging thing it's
like this painful thing you never know where you're gonna experience you can come into the room and
think this this is definitely going to make this person happy and if they lack that experience to
understand and equate that that equity that percentage the the understanding of the total
pie they're going to see it as being shit on even if it's the best thing ever and and i just
that's that's in many situations just let me baffled left me feeling like there's no winning
here like i don't know how to deal with this like i can try to educate people on what equity is
and on how it works and on you know and in the case of a token i think it's even more complicated
how it functions but the reality of it is because of people's unique experience they value these
things so differently versus like if you show up and you're like you're getting a ten thousand dollar
bonus everybody understands that ten thousand bucks like you can mean different things to
different people but a dollar is a dollar is a dollar but when it comes to things like equity
and tokens it's just not the case and i sort of always expect to see this violent split in opinion
that mirrors what we've seen with the pixels situation really really well said there paul
koji your thoughts yeah paul uh i love you and i also love the parallel community but i just want
i like you you got to take a hard stance here man the community members can fuck off no offense
anybody but like well challenge these projects man like you you're screaming that you're not
getting enough fucking magic beans you know like it's all made up until it becomes real and like
the fact that it's this shit that why web 2 will never take our our our games and our ecosystems
and all that stuff seriously is because everyone's like oh yeah we're here for the games we want to
support projects we want to do this we want to do that and as soon as uh the perceived pie is not
cut the way that they like they're just like oh this sucks we hate it here this game this game
that i just espoused the virtues of for the last like three weeks on on xing it's the greatest
game of all time it has a million users and like i want to play for the rest of my life it's like
oh they didn't give me enough fake money so now i don't want to play it fuck them it's like get
the fuck out of here you know like just play the game enjoy it and if you if you get something out
of it uh out the other end great and if you're only here for for that shit like get the fuck out
fuck sorry that got me so hyped dude oh i loved it i loved it dub over to you hoping to keep the
hype going because my answer is that they're all assholes and they should just send me all the
freaking tokens so i can handle it for them at the end of the day victims just it's part of us
growing up as a market and we need to get better at how we are messaging things like tokens so that
our communities when they receive that message have more clear expectations and and won't act
as assholes when they get confused and they expect more and all no they will they always
will there's no escaping that i believe in a correct marketing being possible paul thank you
but i can dream and i'll continue to dream and until then everyone else is just an asshole
yeah real quick i got a text from katie drake bettner she just wanted to remind me that paul
and her donated five thousand dollars to extra life for kids to help kids treated at their
miracle network hospitals uh if you guys want to donate alongside them i just pinned up her tweet
there's a couple of links in there big shout out to the bettners oh my god thank you sam i was gonna
do that too and and i just i'm so glad that you just did during this spaces we almost simultaneously
launched our extra life streams and we are absolutely blowing it out of the water i think
we're already up at like nine thousand dollars donated or whatever so please join us uh we're
streaming wildcard we're raising money for an amazing cause happening right now dude that's
amazing grab an extra monitor boot it up on the side make sure you tune in during and after this
space as well i'll go to knock next yeah i said this a couple weeks ago um when we were talking
about aof i said it a few weeks prior to that when we were speaking about insert name of collection
here i'll continue to say this forever when people complain about the way token airdrops mind you
airdrops free shit is distributed amongst community members one it tells me the only reason why they're
there is to extract more money it's a good reminder that no matter how much money you make anybody as
a project founder they're always going to be pissed off at you because you didn't make them
enough free money and for me it's actually becoming like a bull indicator like the more
people bitch and complain about the way that a project is going to be airdropping the token
the more exposure to that project long term i want because they're hearing all of these people
shit on them they don't give a fuck and they're going to continue to launch things in the way
that makes sense for their business because ultimately if you believe in a team if you
believe in a game if you actually believe in the things that you preach like koji said you talk
about how this is a big game it's going to be a thing that you play forever you're super excited
about what this looks like in a year or two and you're bitching and complaining about you didn't
get enough free money on day one then good leave the ecosystem allow me to get more exposure to
that ecosystem that's the type of team that i want to be exposed to because they're planning for the
future they're planning to be here for a long term those are the types of the teams that you see
outside return i will always see that as a bull sign moving forward there was a time when teams
were launching before like the advent of like the the launch pad and what we're doing on magic eden
and what a couple of other people started to do there was a time where if your launch broke your
nft launch broke or people couldn't access the website or the mint was fucked up that was like
the most bullish thing that could possibly happen to a collection and it even became like the opposite
where like it was actually bearish if you had a smooth launch like people didn't want exposure to
that project i'm viewing this the same way the more people complain about the way that you're
distributing tokens for free to community members the more exposure to your project i want stop just
pretending that you actually care it's just like grifting with extra steps at least grifters are
open with what they're trying to extract and and the way that they are don't pretend you care about
a game and then get upset about that they didn't give you enough free internet money fuck off give
forward god this is giving me the energy that i need sinjin yeah you know uh you know i think
you know when you look at this entire like airdrops and tokens and stuff like that this is all really
interesting because you know the airdrops are actually supposed to kickstart the liquidity
right and then whether that's you know the the player liquidity or you know the economic
liquidity and so that's the function of that and in terms of you know you look at what the
people who are involved with and the kind of sense of expectations or entitlement that they do have
but in some ways that they are playing this game and you know they're getting the short end of the
stick at times right because if you also look at what the vesting schedules can be right that you
know even though there's an airdrop or there's like um you know tg or whatever event and then
who gets you know the preferential treatment in terms of you know their vesting schedule whether
it's vcs or so and so forth so the entire system is this particular game that they're playing
um and so you know they can complain about it and the reality is is that in the same way that the
games themselves use players to get these vanity metrics and you know with nox saying about how he
finds this bullish when they're complaining because they're getting the eyeballs there right um
you know it's it's just a game both ways you know and there's no real right answer but in terms of
what you know paul was saying like as a founder and you know for the last i don't know like 15
years or whatever like that and i get a new employee on like yeah tell me about equity
and compensation where it's not so clear um and also expectations is it's always difficult and i
think just as an aside the biggest thing with equity or real um ownership is a sense of like
rather than bonuses is like how much risk have you actually taken on to participate with this
particular project or this business right and and risk is not a matter of like your time spent right
because at the end of the day you know then it's just zeroed out it's nothing right but if the if
your risk is that by participating you actually suffer a loss that's when equity comes into play
right and so in the case where i think you know the the little bearish entries and the expectations
are that you know everyone wants you know what they want and they kind of demand it and in in
the sense sense like these airdrops are like some type of you know exit equity liquidity or so and
so forth i mean it seems a little bit unreasonable but i would agree with spark sees on this
you know if the team doesn't have enough to be incentivized to really care right then this
becomes like a very very short-term thing that as soon as oversupply hits or a massive vesting
kind of distribution hits the supply why would they give a fuck i i just want to say i i can't
wait until the day that i some someday i get to partner directly with sinjin and we get to work
like at the same company and on the same team on the same project because there's just so many
moments where i'm like oh my gosh like that's a conversation i've had to have or whatever i would
have much preferred to just be like talk to sinjin you want to understand about how equity works in
our company just talk to sinjin i'm not i'm not the guy to talk to yeah i had that talk with jerry
too every employee could hear you know and it's hard to hear it's hard to understand that but it's
100 true i can't believe we made it through that topic without the the two words so i'm gonna say
these are gutless wanks dude koji over to you yeah yeah i i just wanted to say uh again sinjin
is a mad genius uh yeah there's not much more to be said there but i just picked up my daughter
from daycare so i have to leave early say hi tony hi uh so yeah thanks for having me guys sorry i got
to bail a little bit early i'll talk to you guys later no problem koji appreciate you man jerry i'm
sending it over to you bro yeah you know i think these guys hit the nail on the head i love seeing
koji turn into a mini sinjin there for a second um but one thing that that i just want to look at
is like three weeks ago pixels was the fucking darling of the web 3 space right they had all
these players they had all these downloads ma you are where we want them to see all the
fucking things that we say product market fit every fucking buzzword you can think of right
and in the span of three weeks people turn on them right and that's how stupid this space can
be sometimes over a token airdrop right over what nox said free money and it's just it's stupid
dude and like we want web 2 giants to come in here and step into this minefield and so i just
don't get what people want sometimes and i don't i think the issue is they don't know what they
want right but we have this thing that we do in web 3 where we let the squeaky wheel get the grease
instead of telling those people to shut the fuck up like koji so eloquently put it and it's just
dumb dude and and i just my challenge and the thing i want to impart in this conversation is
like if you're somebody who is just a community member that's totally fine you know we need those
but know what you want know why you're here know why you spend your time here
and be okay with that don't let it change over token airdrops and and you know what a project
doesn't do you know like having 12 to the team is phenomenal because they're incentivized to
have you know keep that keep the value of it for three to four years is that vesting
schedule unlocks so just know what you want everybody grow up a little bit well said sinj
back to you you know the funny thing is that you know when i use the word gutless wings i use it
purely for builders and developers in the space for individuals i mean it's very interesting
because like i don't think like they're just you don't know what situation they're coming from and
what you know and their experience and so they do believe that their time that they spend to grind
is is worth really something but it was the funniest thing was that our floor place which
i haven't really cared about at all for meji when it's finally started going on a tear we didn't
change our policy in terms of like if you come into our discord you play the game you know you
be part of the community and you show some interest we're happy to send you you know the
our our nft and we'll pay the gas fee no problem right but ironically uh we had the most flippers
as the price was going up because a lot of the individuals who are from you know developing
countries or whatever like this they were like fuck you know like this is an extra like 150
i don't care if i'm paying like 20 or 30 dollars in gas before and i was like like that's fucked
up but then i realized that you know for them it it's like economically it's a lot of money
right and so this is where the space is where it's so broad and it's so open and so like you
know whatever a thousand dollars to me is like fuck all i mean it's money right but for uh you
know even someone who is young you know early 20s who's just starting to work maybe that's like
really a lot of money um and you know it's something that they need to really scrounge up for so
you know it's hard for me to just say fuck off to everybody uh it's easier for me to say fuck off
to a lot of builders but for individuals i mean and and the players and the people in the space i
mean you know that's the game that you're playing and that's where you're open to it um so yeah
yeah really well said also i want to give a shout out to a e he says he sets his alarm at 5 am
every day wakes up two hours before he has to go to work and listens to gamified he's always
killing it in the comments he's always making graphics for us he does audiograms he does all
this stuff at five in the morning it's absolutely unbelievable to me he also won bingo today that's
been run by icy the absolute legend i didn't even have a chance to mention it earlier but huge thank
you to icy for running that we're going to give ae a hytopia whitelist for winning bingo and then
lem's can you confirm for me if we have two or one hytopia whitelist left you also had your hand
up so you might have something for me uh we have two left now um and yeah i've uh i've got quick
with my take here on this and like it was who's the asshole here and it's definitely all the
people complaining on twitter i think everyone here kind of covered the the points already but
just to put a little bit of perspective in it here so the community and the community incentives
were like right around 40 percent of the total token supply and the team and advisors combined
was like around 20 percent so the community is literally getting twice the token allocation
that the team and advisors are getting and people are still complaining it's just like
the level of entitlement that we have in web three is just pretty wild and if the tokens all
went to the community there's no incentive for the team to drive value to it and it's just basically
going to get dumped to zero and it's like people are so short-sighted that they can't like think
that far ahead well said limbs the cultured swine also had a great comment he says tgi fresco which
is jerry hits the nail on the head all the time sounds like a true gamer to me we can't let
economics destroy games the game has to be the core value of any medium or ip it has to run well
and be fun web 3 has to be subtle or you'll never pull web 2 users knock over to you yeah i mean
ultimately this comes down to a couple things you know from a very young age my my parents instilled
two things in me the first was if you ever think that you're the smartest person in the room go
and find another room and that's why i spend so much time in shows like this because everybody
here is way smarter than i am and we learn so much from like being in the space the second is
if you have a problem with everybody that you meet or you think everybody is an asshole
you're probably the asshole and in the case of what's going on with a lot of these games
for me i have a hard time believing that this is port builders or people who are not smart and
aren't thinking things through or don't have a plan we've had two teams over the last month
one of them literally has millions of downloads across their titles they've got millions of
followers on a number of different social media platforms they were the darling of the ecosystem
leading up to their free mint everybody fucking loved them the minute they announced their
tokenomics everybody turns on them that was aos now you've got pixels the one that was
probably the darling of the entire ecosystem everybody was infatuated with ronin what pixels
is doing what the team is doing those guys are awesome by the way i love what they're building
but they are the apple of everybody's eye everybody's excited about pixels everybody
is chilling pixels it's pixels this and pixels that and the minute that they announced their
token their token drop everybody turns on them there's a common denominator here and it's when
the community realizes that for whatever reason they aren't earning more of the token for free
than the team who is actually building the product or they're not earning more of the
token for free than the investors who took actual capital risk to give money to a team
to build a thing that didn't exist then they turn on this team like the common denominators like
consumers we need to better educate ourselves on how this sort of thing actually works and you
know we've got people like cindy and paul who can really distill the what what goes on behind like
equity and how all of that stuff works out that's important listen to people like that educate
yourself a little bit about what's going on but beyond that i think it's really important to
understand that like we're talking about how a lot of these players are short-sighted they don't
think that if there's not an incentive from you know the team that the team's not going to continue
to build long term i think what's a lot of people are missing um and lemmes actually just mentioned
this is that most of these people are not thinking long term right this is how can i extract as much
out of this particular game as quickly as possible they're upset not because they don't
think that they have more exposure to the token but they're upset because they can't turn around
and dump more of it on day one that bothers me and those again are the types of consumers that
will always exist they're always going to be here but as somebody who is an active participant in
the space if you're somebody who spends time on a weekly basis to listen to twitter spaces and
you know sit in discords and talk to people and make relationships within the ecosystem
you owe it to yourself to educate yourself a little bit on how a lot of the stuff works
in the traditional web2 market so that you're not one of the people who are creating these
mobs who are really just acting frankly out of ignorance or greed or both well said knock i'll
go to jerry next yeah i just want to point out just another thing and knock that's beautiful dude
like very eloquent very well said but i think a lot of times people also don't know what's
best for them right in this space especially so you know more tokens being given to the community
right what does that mean like just look at what we all do when we get two whitelist spots for
something right we all sell one immediately right we create this huge downward pressure on something
so that we can cover our basis right we all know that's the thing to do so if there's more money
given out to the community those you know at one individual might do well with getting a little bit
of extra tokens what are they going to do to that whole token that whole economy they're going to
create this giant ceiling at some point on that economy until it gets broken through right and
that's not good for you if you're invested into the token you're part of the community that's not
good for you right what is good for you is having some of those be locked up having some of those
being a treasury having some go to the team that can't sell them for three or four years so you
know the space is ridiculous sometimes because people don't know what's best for them and they
don't know how to build and deploy some of these things and there's a lot of people that do and
those people that you're investing your money in you might be invested into them for a reason so
you know just that's my dream is that people start to learn you know what they don't know
and have faith in the people that they've put their money towards and stop losing that you
know in a matter of seconds when you read a twitter post parker for me back
yeah i think you gotta kind of take a minute to step back and realize like who you're seeding
into your early communities i think this is a a problem at large across the web 3 space and not
just gaming and i think that we're almost at a point where a lot of these really well-established
game studios wildcard shrapnel in the audience being a couple of them you know they found a
mixture kind of a hybrid of these web 3 just mega enthusiasts and then also just big gaming
enthusiasts but when it comes to these like airdrop campaigns and like token allocations
to community members if your community is predominantly web 3 users and even that maybe
geographically speaking that plays a large role in that as well i think you have to stop for a
minute and ask yourself like who should we be targeting to really cultivate our culture and
like the very early innings because that's that's really what's going to be showcased when these
you know white papers and docs really launch and so while yes these communities are being ridiculous
they're literally getting free allocations just for being a part of it you know it does fall a
little bit on the game developer at some point for where their focus is on on the community
cultivation side but i just wanted to play devil's advocate a little bit appreciate that for sure
while paul one of my favorite things that happens uh sometimes between knock and i is when he and
this is actually i'm realizing it's a pattern that's happened on several shows when knock like
advocates for the builders you know and like giving the builders grace and and sort of saying
like you know they're doing the best they can this is so hard we need to like take it easy on whatever
and then i think opposite approach where i'm like no fuck that man like i'm a builder i want you to
hold me to the highest standard i want us all to get better at this if we suck at managing
expectations with our community and that gets the wrong community aligned with the wrong expectations
and then they're mad at me and they're throwing spears at our project then i deserve that i should
be a better founder i should do a better job managing their expectations and aligning our
interests together and like the good so so first of all i love that pattern by the way knock i love
when we take those two positions i just wanted to say like there's nothing new here this is the good
news y'all in this happens in the world all the time tim cook the leader of apple has to manage
the expectations of short-term shareholders who are hoping that his next quarterly report
is going to let them take their position that they only established three months ago
and turn into a win for their fund or whatever and at the same time chart the course that the
decades long course into the future that requires him to make lots of unpopular decisions and do
lots of long-term things that are not great for that short-term you know new york stock exchange
guy who wants the shares to do a certain thing because he bet on in a certain way
and this is nothing new this is this is the the world of of running large products large
companies managing expectations between people who are there for a financial gain because you have
some sort of uh way to connect into that project and have you know and and sort of operate as a
speculator or as an investor whatever you want to call it versus the people are there for the product
and i don't think that we should allow the best builders and the best products the best
companies to to say like well if you do a bad job of that it's okay it's it's the community's
fault like no actually the ultimate holy grail that we should all try to aspire to as builders
is to do a great job of that to be able to manage the expectations of both parts of that community
and of course it means having the thickest skin of course it means there's going to be so many
moments when i'm unpopular when these builders but if you're doing the right thing long term
it will work out it does work out you can see that with the history of the companies that have
done this and leaders that have done this and i just want to hold us all to that higher standard
really well said i got those two remaining hytopia whitelists i'm gonna give one out to a
retweeter and one out to another great commenter thanks everybody that's been riding with us on
this show sinjin tagging you in you know what's funny is that you know it's almost a very first
world perspective that we have on this panel and um you know having lived in the philippines for
four years and i was managing a family office there um you know we assume that they don't know
what they're doing um you know that their expectations are out of control that they're
you know ungrateful and to some degree maybe that's true but on other side as well is that
do you think that the individuals who are retweeting your shit all the time like five times a day
and we're jumping onto this you know um airdrop thing that they don't know what they're doing and
they don't think that there's a tacit agreement between you and the game developer that they
know that they're helping you cash out with your vcs and and you know building up these vanity
metrics of course they do they absolutely do you know what i do is that whenever someone likes
something on meiji and they're like can i have an nft i go directly to their twitter um um profile
and i read through their twitter profile because you know we don't give out our entities very often
and if it's just retweeting about air air drops and stuff like that and there's not even one
original post like i just kind of like you know whatever i just kind of ignore them right but the
reality is is that you know they believe that they're in on the game and wink wink they're
doing this for you that's why they're saying all these nice things because you know and then suddenly
you know they feel this betrayal like what the fuck i thought i was in this inner circle of helping
you cash out with the vcs and the public and now you fucked me by not giving me what i think i
deserve because for them the end game was always this was the end game they were never gamers they
were never whatever they were helping you guys not you guys specifically but like the industry
you know cash out and that's why they're so upset and then if you think of where pixels were at or
the majority of the air drop that was occurring in the strategy for those air drops for ao verse
and and for pixels well this majority of them are developing countries as well right i would say
right and that's why they're like fucking crazy or other people who are like real influencers who
are really not on the actual money side of things or or early you know they were not in the early
rounds but this was as as much influence that they could bring to bear thinking that they were going
to get you know you know this this compensation and it didn't happen so i mean like let's get real
here i mean these people are survivors you know they're you know living on whatever two hundred
four hundred dollars a month you know a month and they're grinding like and they're going through
these ridiculous things for these whitelist spots and they're they're waking up at like four a.m in
the morning two a.m in the morning three a.m in the morning to like you know mint or whatever like
that and i've had like people complain like the 88 people that we picked for our we're complaining
that the middle is at two a.m for them or whatever like that because they're in europe i'm like holy
fuck like these people they don't complain but when that when that thing when they realize like hey
you guys don't really value us like the way that we thought we were being valued because we thought
we were helping you play and and you know rigged this game well then fuck you and that's basically
what's happening here great stuff and with that i'm going to give knock the final word
then we'll do the final giveaways we're going to wrap this baby up yeah i i think part of the
reason why i i tend to take this out of the builders because a lot of the things that people
are upset about in this space are some combination of not understanding how the space actually works
or agreed and in the case of a team that is you know announcing 40 of the token airdrop or the
token supply is going to the community and only half of that is going to the team the team that's
building the space to me i think that that is a combination of the two things that we've mentioned
and i don't think that that's something that is done in nefariously on behalf of the team trust
me if i think a team is doing something that is nefarious or is downright bad for the ecosystem
or they're trying to be extractive i'll hand out the fucking pitchforks i will organize the mob
we will burn you to the ground i promise you that but when it comes to a team who i think has done
things right they've played the game they've reached out to people they've integrated themselves
within the ecosystem and people turn on them because they don't feel like they're getting
enough free capital for them i have no sympathy for the user on that side of things and and maybe
that's just i like sinjin said a first world mentality maybe that's just being born and raised
in the west we have a lot of luxuries we're very grateful for the life that i live and i don't have
the experiences that people in other parts of the world do that is just objectively true but i think
that there is a really important piece that i want to push back and the example that paul gave
was shareholders when you are participating in the web3 ecosystem when you're buying an nft when
you're buying tokens you are not investing in the company i want to make that very clear i don't
want there to be any confusion here i have traded literally thousands of collections thousands of
teams i've invested in exactly one of those teams right there is an inherent difference between
you being somebody who's purchasing speculative assets in a speculative vehicle class or an
asset class versus somebody who is actually invested in the company and i don't think that
it's equated the same and i just just i wanted to add into that i don't want to take the last word
from you but i just wanted to say that's kind of what i meant when we talk about sort of setting a
higher bar the problem is so many of these teams can't help themselves but talk about it in a way
that gives the perception of equity and that's what leads to that and so i i know like it's
one thing to put that on the on the fault of the people that are coming in and they're like i'm
just treating it like equity but it's i i think it's a shared responsibility it's it's up to those
founders to not to not put the perception out there that what you're actually getting is a share which
it isn't yeah totally agreed there and i think that koji's an example of a founder who does an
excellent job of doing that koji just outright says don't buy our shit it's not part of the
company don't get involved but i but the the point that i want to make is like we we are trying to
foster the ecosystem we want to see teams do well and at every corner every turn if we rip apart
and tear down teams that have reached a level of success where there is significant hype and
anticipation of a token airdrop because people believe that that's going to have some sort of
monetary value and we rip them apart because we feel like we didn't get enough of it there's
going to be fewer and fewer teams willing to take the leap in this space because the teams that are
doing things the right way tend to get ripped apart with absolutely nobody to champion on
behalf of those teams i will always stand behind teams that i feel are doing the right thing in
this space and on the flip side of things like i said at the beginning i will hand out the pitchforks
against the teams that i think are acting nefariously we need to weed out the trash and i think that
that's on both sides there's trash on the side of the developers and trash on the side of people
who are launching nft collections trying to be extractive and frankly there's there's definitely
some trash from the consumer side people who will literally never be happy and going crusades to hurt
teams that have otherwise done nothing wrong in my opinion based off of the limited knowledge that
i've got on the pixel thing and the aof launch and what we've seen three or four times now in a row
there is a common factor it's i don't feel like i got enough free shit therefore we're turning on
this team we're going to bury them and you see it in the case of aof they've got a floor price that
has tanked like 80 as a result of something that maybe was a little mismanaged but ultimately
shouldn't really affect the product the hype why people are excited about that game studio
well said boys i i gotta say as well um i know that this was a bit of a tumultuous topic but
my favorite thing about gamified is always whenever really big brain people that are doing
amazing things in the space are all willing to come and be honest about their perspectives with
these things and i just want to say i i can never thank you guys enough but i'm going to keep trying
however many episodes it takes a big shout out and thanks also for spending your valentine's day
with us i appreciate hey huge shout out to you coming out of the hospital to do this today sam
you fucking killed it you run all this man we love you sam he's like michael jordan with the flu
seriously thanks guys i appreciate you uh for retweeting the space germag is gonna win
the other hytopia whitelist and then nico not in one of my favorite commenters every time he's
able to come by is gonna win the last one that we have and as we holster our heroics and bring down
the banner on this breathtaking battleground of gamified let's lend a rolling round of applause
to the titans and trailblazers who have turned the tides in our favor shrapnel the official crown
champion an official game of gamified fueled by avalanche the official blockchain of gamified
in the sprawling saga of fps supremacy shrapnel emerges as the elite envoy masterminding a
maelstrom of might and munitions each strategic stroke and calculated clashcrafts the chronicle
of chaos and courage and let's cast a spotlight on our icy innovator the foundation of our fantastical
foray into the fusion of finance and fun avalanche the official blockchain of gamified
unleash a thunderous ovation for them or arctic architect valiantly vaulting their
way through the virtual vortex etching pathways of pristine precision my intrepid explorers just
like an avalanche remember to remain cool under pressure foster your curiosity and keep your
anticipation for our next assembly but before we end today's show i'd be remissed if we didn't
thank stardust the official infrastructure of gamified one more time this formidable force
now fields a fully managed user acquisition dsp and performance marketing marvel meticulously
molding the masses into consumers monetizing in your metaverse with stardust stellar strategy
suffused with web 3 secrets snare sublime players at scale securing sky high ltv users as a snip
of the cost thank you to stardust and thank you to our amazing panel of course we've got parker
behind the avax account we got dub behind the shrapnel account two absolute beasts sinjin
freaking killing it a match made in heaven the valentine's day was really sinjin and paul
and paul and andy from stardust that was me me katie and sinjin and knock and you said we're
all going to start a company together at some point in the future and that's the only equity
you're ever going to want to have so just let's go dude consider me uh whatever the opposite of
down bad is i'm up good after receiving that amazing news wild paul giving us the story time
literally one of the only people on planet earth that has produced a profitable virtual reality
product uh comes and tells us exactly what he thinks about the apple vision pro you cannot put
a price on that knock absolutely killing it always come and educated and ready to battle and jerry
of course man you always make it fun and interesting and entertaining lambs of course my
co-host with the most andy had to go coach he had to go but wanted to give them a huge shout out as
well love all you guys and can't wait to run it back same time same place next week i'll see you
then love you too jerry you could be a part of our company also he only gets a bonus no equity okay
yeah you have to talk to singin about equity sorry i'm telling all my periods
by my battle pants jay you gotta listen back the the audio is not working man
that's right that's right boys sorry integrated