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Gamifying Loyalty: Building Fan Communities with Tokenized Rewards
Recorded: July 3, 2025 Duration: 0:36:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders from Karate Combat and Afi Network explore the innovative landscape of tokenized rewards and community engagement in the crypto space. They highlight trends in gamifying loyalty, the impact of strategic partnerships, and the importance of sustainable user incentives, showcasing how these elements drive growth and foster dedicated fan communities.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. you This house party is crazy, my crew is hella wavy, yo flip the cup, then say what's up,
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Pause.
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Yeah, we ain't going home We'll be right back. gm gm everybody welcome back to another banger show with karate combat the world's premier
full contact striking league governed by the fans powered by karate token today we're here
talking about gamifying loyalty building fan communities with tokenized rewards can it be done
or are you just paying people to use the product whilst you're paying them and then they disappear
as soon as you stop paying them well this is what we're going to figure out on the show today
got some bang against speakers to dive into this conversation with and we've as always got king
apollo in the co-host hot seat with me today karate combat janitor janitor timu version of a journalist
host of voice of warriors powered by brave we've got afi network with us today helping web free
teams launch embedded token based loyalty programs in minutes we've got uno with us today una is here
to bring ust together 50 off supply free to holders of UST token and Luna
at the time of the DPEG.
And we've got Suede AI joining us,
patented IP or WA, IP or WA,
music, launchpad, royalties, web free,
voice print, and more.
Okay, guys, I'm stumbling through my words here,
so I'm going to get the mic handed over to king
before it gets any worse king how is it going you excited for the show today karate combat just
continuing to cook dude yes sir super excited for the show today jack can you hear me yeah brother
you're coming through crystal clear all right awesome i'm in the car right now actually taking
my little one to uh one of their
birthday celebrations they had a little two-day thing so i'm on uh i'm on the mobile with it
karate on the go baby but we're getting it done we're gonna we're gonna get a good conversation
today i got some good info updates on karate combat later on in the show so can't wait to
get it started baby so i'm here let's get it started the weekend let's go so not only a top
top co-host but also a top top father love to hear it brother and yeah hope you're having a
good time with the kids um look guys really really fun show today i genuinely one of the
most important conversations or the most topical conversations you can ever have within the space
you know are you building a community with tokenized rewards or are you building a bunch
of users who are using the product because you're paying them to use the product i think that's you
know going to be the crux of the conversation we have today listeners if you're excited for
that conversation likes retweets all that good stuff absolutely want to see this room blow up
but also massive shout out to everyone here. Love seeing those familiar faces.
Love seeing the new faces.
Love seeing the turnout.
We're definitely growing as a show, which is massive, massive to see.
Really, really appreciate all the support from you guys.
And it really does make my day just seeing you guys cook and tune in on a regular basis.
Okay, for our speakers, if you've not been on a show with us before, with me,
with Karate Combat, with King, quick CLDR about how we try and run these shows, and then we're
just going to jump straight in. Basically, going for organic conversation today, which hopefully
sounds exactly as it should sound, which is, you want the mic? You got the mic. That simple. You
just get your hand up in the air, we'll get the mic straight over to you. However, do need the hand up in the
air. This is a PFP run show. King is already demoing this even on the go. Love to see it.
Yes, if you want the mic, get the hand up in the air, we'll get the mic straight over to you. That
is the deal we're looking to strike today for our speakers. Speakers, if that isn't incentive enough,
we do also have jack points now jack points
are the most worthless point system in the entire crypto space maybe even the world but you do get
10 jack points for every time you raise your hand in the air at the end of the show we'll bundle all
those points together and we'll see which speaker wins the show that day unfortunately the winner
won't get anything because as i've said completely worthless point system just here for a bit of fun a bit of gamification and a bit of competition but that's
literally it maybe you'll get a couple follows out of it if you win because people will love the
fact that you contributed a lot to the show today you're always going to get my follow as long as
you contribute to the show today as well which isn't worth a lot but since kato has come up i am
in that inner inner circle so you do get one more smart follower which is hilarious
because i'm the least smart guy within this space but if that's any incentive then you get that too
but that really is it if you're looking for any other utility please please do look elsewhere
and because you ain't getting it from me okay that is it we're gonna dive in now um and honestly
would love to probably just start where i've referenced a couple of times
already during the show gamifying loyalty is that is that really a thing like can you even do that
like genuinely gamify a real fan like a true community member through incentivization or does
it have to be more than that i'd love to get some consensus from our speakers una already with the ham raise they want to monopolize the jack points from the get-go
we love to see it una mike over to you
well first gm and thank you for having me appreciate you hosting and karate combat as well
love the gamification points of the jack points and the self-deprecating humor love the intro to
the show i appreciate the introduction as well.
You know, I definitely think that you can gamify community with, you know, tokenized
rewards.
And there's definitely a fine line between the farmers and the airdrop hunters and so
on, which, you know, we want to avoid.
We want to build real communities because ultimately your community is your technology.
And you said it best with us, right?
So we're going after the disenfranchised communities and trying to revitalize and recapture them. And as you said,
50% of our token supply will be going to Luna and USC holders, but we're doing it in a gamified
distribution way. So we're doing it on a parabolic vesting curve. And so users, they'll get their
full allocation after 18 months, and it'll go up month by month in a
parabolic way until then. And if they want to sell early, they can, but we go about it in a way where
some of the tokens get burnt, some of the tokens go to a 36-month treasury, and so on. And so that's
kind of our way of going about it. But definitely, there's so many unique ways to go about doing this,
and I'm looking forward to hearing from the rest of the panel, you know, their methods. There have
been a lot of great projects that have done great examples like wrecked for example you know
they'll give equity you know in their organization to those who have nfts and buy the drinks and so
there's so many great examples on how to build a great community by doing this and so just to kick
things off there and look forward to hearing everyone else's views on this and continuing
the conversation yeah look absolutely and i think when your project is
clearly trying to unlock this absolutely feel free to share and definitely want to look at this
broadly for the crypto space as well so the more broad we can stick to the topics the better
but really love this and look it really is just like reflecting a real problem and a cultural
moment within the space that you guys have just referenced there so like absolutely fantastic example to start start us off. Suede AI, I want to get the mic over to you next.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, no, I'd have to agree 100%. You know,
it is possible because I think when you, you know, zoom out a little bit, everything in life on some
degree is, you know, incentive based. And it's just a matter of aligning those
incentives with everybody involved so that it's a voluntary sort of system that, you know,
everybody can have that contribution and receive reciprocity, so to speak, from everybody's
contribution. So I definitely do think it is is possible but it is a very fine line that
needs to be walked and uh you know if it sways too much to either side it's very very hard to
bring back in my experience i've seen it play out with a number of projects so it is a very
important conversation to have and to really consider look absolutely again agree love that
we've already got the jack points off to a great start
as well we've got suede and una and king now already coming for the top spot and i will say
unfortunately not self-deprecation just facts um so although i wish it was self-deprecation
it really is not this is just me um but absolutely do love the speakers on stage and look this is
going to be a really fun conversation.
I can tell already from our early takes.
Afi, we haven't heard from you yet.
And I just refuse to let you lose the lead this early on in the show.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Like, how have you seen building a real fan community?
Is this something you can do purely through rewards?
Or do you think there needs to be a little extra source in there to really build an actual community, not just a bunch of users?
Yeah, absolutely.
So thanks again.
Great energy here.
Very awesome to be here.
So thanks again for having me and awesome panelists as well.
So I look forward to having this very exciting conversation.
I think one thing that we touched on earlier was like, you know, loyalty and, you know,
how loyalty has kind of been around for a long time.
But a lot of times, you know, prior to Web3, loyalty was actually linked to payments, really.
So you're, you know, you come back often and you buy something and, you know, you get a
bonus when you come back or you buy 10 items and you get one free or you buy, you know,
and you get miles. So a lot, you know, and you get miles.
So a lot of it was linked to purchasing, right?
And I think one thing that's kind of really evolving lately with Web3 is that there's
a lot more gamification around incentives.
And these, you know, you don't just need to spend anymore to actually earn these incentives.
You can actually do other tasks, right?
So you can follow the specific brand. You could, you know, share content about them. You could repost
their posts. You could join their communities. You could, you know, do interactive quizzes and,
you know, all types of different things really. And I think someone touched upon this earlier as
well. It's like, you know, with incentives, you just have to find at which point someone would do something, right? And there would be an equilibrium where,
you know, there's benefit on both sides, right? And that's really, I guess, what we're doing here
as a platform is building a mechanism for, you know, brands and merchants to incentivize users
and really finding that equilibrium is, I think it really depends on
the niche, but I think it's there and it definitely is useful. I think if the brand is able to find
the right incentive that would actually drive the action that would contribute to their project.
Yeah, look, absolutely agree. Already off to a hot start here, but I think really important
context for the listeners and really love that all the speakers are at consensus here.
You can literally set up tokens, set up your project to have utility from those tokens and reward early users and market your project in a way that has never been available before.
You couldn't do this before this product.
We did have, of course, reward systems that we have mentioned about.
Get a credit card, get points, get air miles.
These things have existed.
And we do still
have internalized reward systems you know you're certain clothes manufacturers and basically you
know even digital goods like think microsoft points etc but there is only really an internal
use case for this like oh you have to already really be a fan for that to be incentive like
because you can only use it within the product that you're using it for, right?
There's no way to take them points and convert them into cash for the most part.
I know it gets a little bit more confusing when we do talk about tokens,
but for the, you know, sorry, not tokens, points,
when we do talk about credit cards.
But let's just leave that where it is right now,
because my brain is too cooked to handle the nuances
and to try and interject that into a show
where we have 40 minutes to touch on so much.
King, I want to throw the mic back over to you here
before I monologue too much.
What does fan loyalty look like
in a digital native sports league like Karate Combat?
How did you guys manage to find and bridge that gap
with an obvious real product and a real fan base off the get-go yeah i mean so a little bit about
like pre-context on the league for people who don't know they were about five to six years
already in the process of being a league before they added any tokenization
and loyalty was one of the main reasons why they added it um so through research and like this is
not something i did i'm not that smart definitely not i'm a guy on the mic um i wish i was smart to
come up with this type of stuff but you know um larping and the rest of the guys on the team rob
and the co-owners and um co-founders and you know, people on the board, they did a lot of research into, like, the gambling scene because it's something massive in sports right now, right?
I mean, you can't go a week without hearing one of your homies talk about the parlay, the big parlay that they're going to hit or the bet that they have in that weekend, right?
And the thing that they noticed, correlation between um this gambling you know
craze and oh we know king is on the go at the moment uh kids hold on hold on there we go i'm
back i just cut the car off sorry that it took me off the car so what it did um i want to what did
i stop at where did you where did i come Like literally for a second, your whole take, I think was ahead just before it cooked.
Okay.
So basically what happened was they were looking into gambling and seeing what the correlation
would be between the fans and gambling and what was creating this craze and the, the,
the increasing viewership of, you know, sports that were included into these gambling ecosystems.
and viewership of you know sports that were included into these gambling ecosystems um and
the correlation was that when people had incentivized you know wagers on these matches
and these you know it from boxing to football whatever it created a super fandom because the
person were felt like they were more obligated to maybe look into the team and look into the
players and what they've done the stats and all of these other things um and this is kind of the main reason why
they leaned into the no loss betting system of you know karate combat's token in the app and how you
vote on the fighters um it was to bring you know more of a loyalty build more of a super fandom
um around it with incentivized rewards, right? So that honestly,
like asking that is like simply put like the reason they added tokenization to the league,
because it was a web two product well before it was doing well. They had did many seasons and,
you know, they had a reality show and everything before they even added any tokenization.
reality showing everything before they even added any tokenization so tokenization was to help with
loyalty so it's grown massively since they have you know over hundreds of thousands of users that
have used a karate combat app that use a karate combat with massive leaderboards and it's shown
over time that is you know created these fans and like we have karate combat group chats with like
over 200 fans and people who are
heavily invested into the token and you know these people have ultimate loyalty to uh karate combat
the fighters and the things we do so you know it helps out us it helps out a lot helps out a lot
um so that's the way karate combat went about it but you know it's always ways that you can apply
it to whatever ecosystem that you're a
part of. We're part of sports ecosystem. So it's a bit easier to lean into something like, um,
it's not necessarily gambling. So I don't want to say gambling cause it's not gambling. Um,
but into that type of, you know, category of things. So, yeah, look, uh, I think this is
such a great example and great context for people, you know, who don't have the history because it
is a long history
especially for the space that we're in because they've been building almost prior to how people
operate in this space and i think for karate combat yeah you've got sports lovers you've got
people who like to yeah not gamble but like bet on outcomes you know and that doesn't necessarily
mean for financial gain like it just means for like the love of the sport just the love of the win you know you could look at um what what you
call it the football um sort of you know draft picks and stuff yeah not necessarily you're playing
against your friends all for money like sometimes it's just for the love of the game and the love
of the w yeah even even to the point of right the poly markets and the kakashis
and all of those prediction markets of the world right think about how heavily invested these people
got into things like elections and you know these simple things and they got so super heavily
invested and had this loyalty to this thing because they had this incentivization right this uh
incentivized you know reward so yeah man uh i want to see yuna's got his hand up so
let's see what yuna's got to say jack no i literally put my hand up to bring up prediction
markets and so you got there which was awesome oh damn i'm so sorry normally i do this to jack
my bad i'm sorry and uh just to say i've agreed with like everything everyone's said so far and
super awesome to hear about that further context about karate combat.
Because, yeah, that makes sense. I've heard you guys from the from beforehand.
But that's awesome that, you know, you made it over into Web3 and are doing so great.
And, yeah, it makes total sense. And all that synergy is coming on chain now.
And that's a great way to build communities, to get people involved and to incentivize them to stay.
And, you know, there's so many like other examples, right? Like Kaido with their yaps
and whoever got more of those just got massive airdrops
and people are still talking about that right now.
And what I heard mentioned earlier was like,
it's a fine line between like opposite ends of the spectrum.
And that's so true.
And like, if you wanna look at opposite ends of the spectrum,
something like Hyperliquid,
which is a bit unique because it's self-funded
and so not every founder has as much money to not go the VC route.
But they made so many people rich off their airdrop.
Of course, the community is going to stick around for that.
And then on a complete other side, you have a lot of projects that went the VC route
and promised a big airdrop for years and sort of farmed their communities.
And by the time the airdrop came out, it was very small.
And a lot of those tokens, I'm not going to name name any of them but just haven't been doing very well since and so it's a very
fine line and you got to put community first because at the end of the day you know your
community is your technology and if you're just going to give all your token supply away to a
launch pad and leave your community in the dust you know don't expect them to stick around right
yeah look absolutely fantastic takes and yeah King does normally do that to me,
you know, so I'm glad we've got someone else on my page here. I'm always stealing those
banger takes before I can get in there. But look, I do, I fundamentally agree. Like we've had
a masterclass of what not to do within this space with very, very few projects actually showing us what to do. And yet when you already are selling your
product or your business to a VC in terms of, you know, trying to get vested interest, trying to
give them a stake into it. And then all of a sudden the project that you're trying to promote
and the opportunity you're trying to promote sort of has this third backer who doesn't necessarily
have the same goals as the people
you're trying to attract that's a big big red flag like honestly you know it's something that
it can be done right but very very rarely is done right within this space also just love the kato
example because i think kato is you know one of those things where we knew a token was coming we
didn't know the value that it was going
to generate and i think the reason we didn't know that was because we didn't know how useful the
product would be or how many people are going to use that product and it sort of was a self-fulfilling
prophecy in my opinion of just great product market fit with aligned incentive of the token so you
know other projects could come in and do it but all
of a sudden now they're competing against people who've already started farming with this thing
they know what to do and there are people who farm all sorts of info fi but we are also seeing the
downside of that now when new products are coming out going straight to zero and people who have
been rewarded for doing that work now aren't being rewarded for doing that work.
And that's why I love Kato as an example,
because it's not just an example about what to do,
but it's an example of this space.
Even if you look at a project that literally shows you what to do
and try and replicate it, it doesn't work.
It does not work.
You can't do that.
You cannot just be like, oh, there's the playbook.
I'll follow it.
It's not the space for you, my friend. if you're not going to add any innovation to it if you're
not going to have a way to really build a user base out of it then again you're just going to
end up sending your holders down to zero and that is a place you do not come back from very often
i don't know of a single example honestly um suede ai you've been giving me a ton of emojis here i would love to hear your thoughts on all this no i i couldn't agree more and i think um you know so karate
combat i think braid browser is a great example as well um you know we have the unique ability
in you know crypto tokenomics to onboard communities without massive overhead without spending millions of
dollars you know we can create token incentivize people that you know this may hold value in the
future if you believe in what we're doing and so you know that uh believing what we're doing
has to come across there has to be confidence in what the team is doing what the team is building um but
that's a way in which you can really onboard a community but like you said you have to do right
by them and you have to provide that value because there really is no coming back i think from uh
kind of deserting that trust um and i think that's you know i think that's rightful um so to speak but uh yeah i
think crypto makes this possible for a lot of people that it wouldn't be otherwise and when
you bring in vcs or third parties like that like you said that don't have that same sort of incentive
structure uh there then it can really um skew things and and hurt um your community base in a
way that can be irreparable so i couldn't agree more yeah look i think fantastic take already i
feel like we've dove pretty deep off the get-go with the challenges as well like we could have
easily just like glazed tokenization like literally we could
have just spent this whole hour glazing the hell out of look if you build on crypto there's all
these advantages there's no possible wrong that can come from them let's pump all our bags we
haven't done that i think the challenges are obviously super visible to anybody who's been
in this space for more than five minutes or has been a part of any project where they have like tried to farm or try to own the tokens or try to bet on the success of a team
and but like great great start overall and really appreciate all the takes from our amazing speakers
listeners if you're enjoying this one likes retweets really easy really free way to show
that support really appreciate all you guys who've tuned in already and if you do like any
individual takes from our speakers on the panel today give them a follow that's that's it that's all i'll ask of
you if you and look genuinely only if you enjoy the content and you enjoy their takes but if you
do you'll probably forget unless i tell you so that's why i am telling you but like just give
them a follow it'll make their day it will help them in terms of just showing that they have real
followers who really support them but also obviously they're giving us an hour of their time for free so it's a
great way to repay that support if you like if you like absolutely no dramas otherwise but guys
all that being said we've talked about the challenges i feel like we've done a really
good job of it let's talk about the solutions to those challenges because that's a much more
difficult bridge to cross here and i
don't even know the answer myself honestly i like as an end user i have some very altruistic very
like utopian views on this stuff but let's be real here this is a not a black and white world
like there's a lot of gray area here there's a lot of people who still need to get attention to
begin with which means giving away more token share than they maybe would like or marketing in a way that look if it was a perfect world they might not market but
overall we do need to take a step forward here and that's where i'd love to get some feedback from
our giga brains up on the panel right now so over financialization big issue actually converting people who have come for the financial reward
into a user how do we do it is it that we're targeting the wrong people like should we be
more aggressive with okay you can definitely earn this token and you can definitely sell the token
when it comes to tge but to earn, you can't just post about it once,
or you can't just do these really easy to farm things to do. You actually have to use the product
and you have to like the product. Is there a different route entirely where maybe we should
just review how we reward people more generally in terms of users to the product? Or is this just
acceptable? Is this a thing where,
look, it's the real world. We need to market our project. If someone posts about us, that really
is what we're after. And then it just becomes about how do we distinguish the real human beings
and the real crypto native people who have a presence as opposed to bots just farming the
hell out of us or KOLs with thousands of bot followers farming the hell out of us, or KOLs with thousands of bot
followers farming the hell out of us, and basically just draining our marketing budget and our budget
to actually build what we want to build and giving it to the wrong people. So that's really my
double-ended take here. Una, mic straight over to you, and then we'll get the mic back over to
Suede AI. And then, Afi, I'm coming for you as well. I want to hear your take on this.
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'll take a stab at it. And I agree with the way that you
worded that. And it goes back to a point about tokenization. And is that the way to go? Because
what we've seen lately is there was a big influx of infrastructure that came in, all these L1s,
L2s, et cetera. And then now there's been more of a focus on applications, right?
And so I think that there's been more of a focus on making revenue.
Like if you look at an application like PumpFun, for example,
they were able to make all that revenue at the application layer,
which was sort of negative for Solana because all of the Solana was then,
they sold it all, which was bad for the price, but good for the application.
And then they're able to use all that money to come up with creative ways to do whatever
they want, right?
Raising a billion.
And then they could do literally anything, an airdrop, another chain, who knows what
they're going to do.
But they have the ability to do so because they're able to make revenue.
And the thing that's cool about Hyperliquid is that they made that revenue at the infrastructure
layer.
You could call them a centralized exchange or whatever it is, but they were able to keep that revenue for themselves. And then they're able to fuel
token buybacks, which then incentivizes people to stick around because the token price is going up.
So I think that that's been a huge shift in what gives protocols the ability to offer user
incentives to stick around. And there actually was one example of a project that had VCs
that kind of let people down on an airdrop
that was able to recover from it.
And that was Sui actually.
So I remember back when Aptos did like a pretty sizable airdrop
for just using a test net and like minting an NFT for free
and then gave people like a four or five digit airdrop.
And then Sui, everyone was trying to farm that
and then they just didn't do it.
And everyone really disliked them,
or at least I did for quite a while
when they first came out.
And then they seem to have recovered
from that pretty nicely
and everyone seemed to have forgotten it.
And so, yeah, just a multifaceted issue.
I agree with the way that you worded it.
I'm not exactly sure if I answered the question directly,
but having that revenue gives you more ability
to be able to come up with creative ways
and buybacks could be one and so on that you'll get people to stick around.
Yeah, no, again, love the take.
I think I'm honestly, I'm a little torn by this like, look, we just need to get like product market fit like immediately.
Like, yes, absolutely want that for a project when that makes sense for them.
I do like that this space also has the duality
where, let's be honest, it's crypto, right?
Like we're building on blockchain.
It's really, really new tech.
It's for a long, long time been a huge risk
even to build here because, you know,
governments just cannot get a sense
of how they should regulate it.
And look, pre-Gensler or during Gensler's reign, because governments just cannot get a sense of how they should regulate it.
And look, pre-Gensler or during Gensler's reign,
my goodness, how much risk tolerance you would have to have betting it all
on building a business on crypto rails.
And I think part of all of that risk tolerance
and all of those negatives
came with it an opportunity to raise,
not through VC funding with a bunch of
extra strings, but by being a team who can execute on a vision that you can put forward to a group of
people who actually like that vision. And that was me in a nutshell, like as an end user or community
member, it was like, look, yes, a lot of the time, I definitely want there to be upside in what I'm buying and what I'm buying into.
But if it's a new group of people who just can't get their foot in the door in the traditional way,
or maybe just don't want to be bent over by a VC that, look, if they don't start monetizing immediately,
immediately, then all of a sudden, they're basically just going to run them into the
then all of a sudden they're basically just going to run them into the ground.
ground. Like, I do like that part of the space, like this idea of look, just the vision alone,
as long as I can build publicly, and I show you that I'm putting the work in that I told you I
would, then yeah, maybe the product doesn't have to include profit or even this runway straight off the bat. But unfortunately, what we've seen in the space is royalties get demolished.
Any other way to provide revenue basically disappearing.
Tokens not really displaying, hey guys, this is going to take a couple years.
We're building a metaverse.
That's going to take 10 years if we want to do a AAA.
No communication around it. So for the most part, Una, I agree. And it's not necessarily where I'd
like the space to have to move. But I do think right now it is where the space has to move,
where you just have to hit product market fit earlier than maybe we should, purely so that you
can give people utility as early as possible, but also so you can keep building the cool shit that
you want to build
because there's no other way to raise if you don't have something that's actually going to bring in
money. And if you can't raise, then you can't pay your team. And if you can't pay your team,
you don't have a business. Suede, your hand was raised. We'd love to hear your thoughts on all
this. No, I think that was a really great take. And yeah, like we were talking about, you know, people, I think it's a really
egalitarian system in the sense that, you know, it's like totally merit-based. You know, if you
can come to market, come to a group of people and convince them that you have something that's
feasible, that actually solves a problem, then, you know, totally voluntarily, they can, you know,
problem, then totally voluntarily, they can speculate on that potential success.
And I think that's very different from the way in which a lot of business has propagated
beforehand, in which if you can get the licenses, if you can grease the right palms, if you
have the right connections, I think it's very different in the sense that we're kind of
all coming in on this sort of equal footing.
And if we can get it for us, it was burning 53% of the supply early.
That really sent kind of the shockwaves and the confidence signal that, look, we're in it for the long term.
You know, we're only getting out of this alive if we're billions of dollars.
And so we believe that to be the case. So this is what we're doing. So I think, you know,
