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Gaming DAOs and Player Governance
Recorded: June 13, 2025 Duration: 0:58:01Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion on gaming DAOs and player governance, participants explored the potential for community-driven decision-making in gaming, the challenges of current DAO implementations, and innovative marketing strategies like the Go Home token's Meme Olympics campaign.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. I don't know how many people are going to pull up, Dave.
It might just be me and you.
We had a few people come in.
Let's do it.
Let's go.
What do we call it?
Space cadets, bro.
Space cadets.
Is this the launch of Space Cadets?
It might be.
Do I just change the title right now?
Yeah, dude.
Let's just do it.
Space Cadets.
I love it.
All right.
We got open loot pulling up.
I guess we're going to...
I'm sending some messages out to some of the other speakers.
I'm going to see if some people are going to come.
I'm going to have to do a better job at booking out some more speakers.
I don't know.
Xcoho's been a bit slow recently.
I don't know, man.
But how are you doing, Dave?
How are you doing, Dave, Dave?
Doing good, man.
Just, you know, grinding away at my old sales job. Not like, um, really a lot of attractions happening with, um,
with like governments and big institutions,
like looking to adopt infrastructure and stuff.
So that's great to be at an engineering firm right now,
especially if you're in sales.
That is awesome, bro.
I love to hear it.
Um, yeah, man, I was, uh, I was hitting you up in, in the DMS.
I don't think yeah you said
fuck new york huh i might be going bro i went to new york i went to nft new york once i'll never
go back again bro like there's only so many homeless people you can see shitting on a sidewalk
before you're just like all right screw the city okay yeah that's like that shit. Yeah, no, I might be going for NFT NYC just for a few days, just because it's like the closest city to Montreal.
But yeah, from what I hear, not many people are, I don't know, man, NFT NYC sounds like a little bit of a flop.
I don't know.
We'll see.
I'm bringing Mr. Consul up.
I'm bringing Open Loot up.
Yeah, I get the feeling
today's space will be a bit of a casual chilling i might end it a bit early but uh i think as of
next week i'm gonna have to uh start bringing on a much you know i don't know we're gonna have to
step it up mr console how you doing brother hey what's good my good friend i'm doing all right just woke up from a little nap all my days
i switched off i really did i i hear the voice bro i love it you sound like me
an hour ago because i just woke up too um that's awesome bro um yeah man how's your day going bro
i i'll tell you right now i think this space is going to be very casual.
We'll see.
I had a bunch of other people that were supposed to come, but I don't know how many people are coming.
We'll see, man.
But how's your day going, brother?
Yeah, for sure.
I had a very busy day with the guys.
They got way too active on Discord.
I just switched off.
I was like, nah, I'm not replying to each and every of these messages.
What are these guys on? A sugar rush?
Jesus.
So I got that whisper in my mind telling me to lay on my back a bit,
do work from bed a bit.
You know what I mean?
That devil's whisper telling me to, yeah, yeah, I can relax a little bit, do work from bed a bit, you know what I mean? That devil's whisper telling me
to, yeah, yeah, I can relax
a little bit, right? And this is after
I ate and I just
just crashed
really.
That's my day.
Yo, your community's lit, bro, so I don't blame
you, man. I see how active
the bigger community is, man, with that bigger love, and it's a little crazy, bro. So I don't blame you, man. I see how active the bigger community is, man, with that bigger love.
And it's a little crazy, man.
So I don't blame you, man.
They got that high energy.
I love it.
Amazing, bro.
All right.
Well, we got some people tuning in.
I wasn't sure how this space is going to go.
We'll see.
But what's up, Mick?
If you want to come up on stage, you're always welcome.
What's up Roy? Open loot, trying to bring you up. We got Go Home and we got Gaming on AVAX, our good friends.
How you doing Gaming on AVAX? We got Sneaky Che behind the mic. How's your day going, brother?
Always, always. Happy Friday, everybody. And Marcello, always good to be here, brother. Hope you're doing well.
everybody and Marcello.
Always good to be here, brother.
Hope you're doing well.
Yes, sir.
We're alive and well.
We're very well.
I'm trying to preserve the energy.
It's the girlfriend's birthday.
Well, actually, it's next week,
but got a bunch of plans for the weekend.
So the introvert in me is dying.
But we're going to be good.
We're going to be good.
Full day of activities today.
Tomorrow, I mean. I love it. No, it's going to be good.'re gonna be good have a full day of activities today tomorrow i mean uh i love it um no it's gonna be good i'm gonna have a bunch of friends
get a good time we out here we on spaces all day today too so it's a it's it's a bit of a
a bit of a cook but we love it sneaky j that's how we do it um we got go home go home token how's
it going my friend we've've been hanging on spaces together.
I've been speaking behind the Soulbound account a lot, but happy to have you on today's Game Time. How are you doing?
Yes, indeed. GMG, my friends. This is Go Home, representing the global movement of going home,
reflecting on your status, depending on where you are, which context,
if you're trading too much, you just need to go home. If you're drunk too much, you also need to
go home. If you're working too much, just go home and relax. It's all about realizing when you've had
too much and going home. That's what the token is inspired by.
Well, it's inspired by the White House
since Trump was elected in 2025 this year.
On the 21st of January,
White House Spanish website just displayed,
the very next day,
it displayed the go home button
instead of the go to home page and it had an error
message so that was the that's the idea uh that's what that was the inspiration for the space for the
meme coin but since then go home has grown into a really really good global community
we're right now actually we've acquired over 500 screens across placements,
screen placement and billboard placements across UK. So we're running this campaign called Meme
Olympics. You can submit your favorite meme to the Go Home page by just posting it on X or Twitter,
if you're old school like me, and just include the hashtag go home meme olympics and we'll choose
maybe your meme goes through and is displayed and viewed by the millions of viewers that go around
every day well that's basically it uh daddy phil on the mic as always happy to talk with you
marcello also side note this is the first time i've seen your face because I saw on your profile,
you have a video with Luca.
Jesus, you look way, way different than I thought.
I didn't think you were, you had so much hair on your head, actually.
So great, great.
I'm very jealous because I'm bold.
So yeah, I'm bold and bold.
Over to you.
I love it, bro. Well, first of all, awesome introduction.
I want to start by saying that was some beautiful storytelling.
We just had a space on Web3 storytelling, and that was a really beautiful segmentation there in terms of what we just talked about.
And yes, I've got a lot of hair.
It's funny because if you knew me from a few years ago,
I always used to just do a buzz cut.
And then one day I woke up and I'm like,
I want to be like Dave Dave and grow out my hair.
He's the one with short hair.
But no, I got long hair now and I love it.
Got my little beard going on.
It's funny you say that though.
I think I saw a video of YouTube, bro, and I'm like,
I don't know why.
It's interesting.
When you hear someone's voice, your brain creates like an image of what you think they look like. But it's usually not. It's very inaccurate. Yeah, that's so weird.
So you too. But I love it, bro. I hope my face didn't scare you too much, bro. But awesome.
Nah, man. You look lovely.
Love you, dude. No, this is great great and awesome to have you behind the mic here
we've got um amazing we got some friends anybody in the audience that wants to tune
jump up on stage everybody's welcome i see lito we got make we got manic pixie kathy richie
ramadzo as more people tune in uh feel free this is a fun, safe little cool space for everybody to hang out and have a good time
for the next 49 minutes. OpenLoot, how are you doing, Ryan? Happy to have you here if you want
to give us a quick intro as well. And Ryan is, I don't hear you bro but we're good all right let's kind of get into it i want
to discuss gaming daos and player governance what the heck is a gaming dao what is a player
governance right so decentralized autonomous organizations right we we all love these buzz
words but what do they actually mean right so when we talk about governance, we're talking about giving power to the community to decide on certain heavy decisions that take place within an organization, within a project, and help steer the ship in where they want to take it.
Now, I think there's many different things
when it comes to this um you know i do think governance has its place not always but it does
and i think that you know depending on the organization depending on how much power
that they have as well i don't think you know everybody might have their own take but i don't
know if a community should have all the decision making power otherwise uh i don't know how that would end up but you know i always find it pretty cool when communities do
give a bit of power to the community to decide on where they want to go and other times
maybe that isn't always the best sometimes it's the teams that i think have the best insight on
how to steer the ship right sometimes um you, comments and opinions don't always belong in the
kitchen. But yeah, I'd love to kind of hear what everyone has to say. We haven't seen many gaming
dows, to be honest. We've seen dows with other, you know, spaces outside of gaming. I don't know,
correct me if I'm wrong, but it is something that has kind of piqued my interest, and I'm like,
hmm, I wonder if this is something we're going to start to see more of.
Is this something that we should explore? Is this something that we shouldn't? I don't know. That's why we have you guys here.
I want to hear your takes. I know I was talking with my co-host Dave Dave a little bit. He wasn't so bullish on Gaming Dows, and i want to hear why what do you think bro uh is this something we should
talk about more is this something we should explore is this something we should completely
stay away from and as for everybody here else if you want to jump in raise your hands or just jump
in just because we're jumping in but uh dave dave what do you think brother i'll i'll give you my
take in just a minute um i want everyone else to go first
i see i see he wants to bring the spicy takes right after after people drop their bars huh
okay um what do you guys think mr all right we got sneaky chay behind the gaming on avax account
go ahead brother what do you think and actually while we're at it, have you seen anything around gaming DAOs or governance within the AVAX ecosystem?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
But yeah, I'll pass it to you, brother.
Yeah, I don't know if I've seen much around gaming DAOs specifically.
And in general, I think DAOs are sort of like a meme.
It's, you know, this idealized way of finding decentralized consensus.
And it's like, oh, yeah, like, well, it's all get together and we'll vote and it'll be the best outcome.
But, like, it just hasn't worked, um, throughout like crypto, which is, which is interesting.
Um, I think the closest that like I've seen, it's sort of like get, get to the point where
it's like similar to social consensus.
It's like something like the arena or, um know something like a a pump fun or a virtuals
where you have to have like a certain threshold of community buy-in to like bond tokens um out
of a curve or things like that but even very similar to DAOs, right? Like, you know, there's ways that you can make it
where you're trying to have more widespread participation.
But then there's also ways where it's just like,
oh, if I own a huge percentage of the network,
I can just push my weight around.
But like what Virtuals is doing with, you know,
their point system, especially like the Genesis program, where, you know, a certain number of accounts that have to have a certain amount of participation in the network have to, you know, put their weight behind a project to have it graduate.
You know, I think that's what I've seen as what the essence of a DAO has been trying to pursue actually be in reality.
So I don't know if it's always going to be a meme and it's never going to be attainable,
but so far I think going from zero to 100% decentralized governance just hasn't worked out, period.
And there needs to be a way to get there better.
Yeah, that's my take, Marcello.
I like it.
While we're at it, I'd love to hear, to kind of throw it or bounce back off of you, Sticky Che,
how can we make this work? Because I agree,
it has been a bit of a meme at this point, but is there any way you see this actually being
something realistic? I think on paper, for sure, the idea of governance, it sounds brilliant,
but how do we actually make this work, or will this forever be a meme? What do you think?
make this work or will this forever be a meme what do you think uh i think there's ways to make
it such that if you're if you're able to give more weight to folks who are actually engaged in the
like the actual community the actual product um who are more caring about the day-to-day and not just
bad actors or folks that are fly-by-night mercenaries, that could help a lot.
I think old forms of governance have been a little bit just too straightforward of like,
oh, I own a percentage of assets or I own, you know,
a percentage of tokens. So that's like my weight, my vote. But if you can sort of tier it to like,
you know, people who have been ingrained in the community longer or who are, you know,
contributing more, have more ability to push weight around within the sort of voting and DAO structure, I think that helps a lot
directionally. I don't know if that has tension with the idea of true decentralization. It's like,
oh, well, how is that fair to other people who don't have the time to contribute or whatever?
who don't have the time to contribute or whatever but it's like you know at the end of the day like
the people that i want making decisions about a protocol or a project i'm involved with should
be like the hardcores uh in my opinion like i don't want someone making a decision about a game
that i'm playing who doesn't even play the freaking game um so i think that's sort of directionally how i could see it working better is like the
people who actually like play the people who actually care let them figure it out let the
community actually figure it out um and and that would probably yield better results with people
who have a more vested interest in the outcomes. I love that. I totally agree. The worst
thing you could have is like just some whale that is like completely uninvolved and just passively
in the back or I don't know, maybe a whale that is invested, but you see oftentimes just some
passive investors in the background. And it's just like, do you even care about this project?
Or are you just here to take advantage?
And yeah, and oftentimes some people are just not involved at all, and it's just like, well, what are we even doing here?
So totally agree. I absolutely love that point.
While we're at it, you know, I'm looking at the comments, and what better person to ask than the Gaming on AVACac account but we have spencer in the comments
asking does anyone know when off the grid comes out this month on steam i think i saw some posts
circulating on my timeline earlier today uh i don't know if you want to touch on that a bit uh
sneaky chay but uh i'll pass it to you i don't think i've got an exact date but yes off the grid
is coming to steam so that is very exciting dude that is
fucking huge i'm excited i mean yo let's go i'm really curious how they're gonna approach that
because i know steam's been a bit uh a bit interesting on uh on the side of uh web 3 i
know a lot of games a lot of friends that have launched on steam they've got like a web 2 version
of the game where you know the digital assets sit on i don't know uh there's a whole a a lot of games, a lot of friends that have launched on Steam, they've got like a Web 2 version of the game where, you know,
digital assets sit on, I don't know, there's a whole lot of intricacies.
I don't know if they've changed that, but anyways,
bullish news nonetheless.
I love it.
What does everyone else here think in terms of this whole conversation
around gaming DAOs, player governance?
Is this a meme?
Is this something that you guys
feel can have utility? Is this just an idea just on paper that sounds nice? What do you guys think?
Dave, do you still want to hold on to your point or do I pick on you now?
Yeah, Dave's busy. He's probably with the baby right now um mr console
now that you're kind of waking up from your nap what are okay okay i see uh i'll pass it to go
home as they raise their hand and then we'll go around the table go ahead big uh big daddy phil
what do you think thanks sir um well well this is a conversation I've had for like tens of hours probably on our spaces,
and we've talked about this with you as well many times.
It's a very interesting thing.
I resent the idea of old, outdated, Decentraland-esque DAOs,
where, as the previous speaker was saying,
it's all about how much you're holding.
I always, I think the perfect balance,
I don't know if it's perfect balance,
but a better balance would be something like
30% of allocation that goes into your voting power,
30% of the engagement that goes into your voting power,
and then we can define what engagement is.
Maybe you have a profile picture of it.
Maybe you have downloaded the game, played the game far too many times,
And then maybe you've contributed to the game ecosystem as well.
and then maybe you've contributed to the game ecosystem as well.
So another 30%, in my opinion, should go to the historical data or the historical support you have for the project.
And how we measure that is obviously very different.
I don't really know.
I don't have exact numbers because I'm not a founder of a gaming project but i think those three things should be
the main like evaluators and for people that can you know just invest more and don't really play
that much and if they want to have a stake well they can just invest more and for other people
they can play more for people that don't have any money, they should be able to not benefit,
but benefit from the ability to vote on important issues.
And another issue that raises with a DAO is that it has to be, in my opinion,
it has to be a limited exclusive club.
It shouldn't even be called a DAO at this point, because as the previous speaker was saying,
it's a very laughable matter at this point. But it should be called something like an exclusive
hub where people who are there really take it seriously. And by this, I mean, there has to be
control mechanisms that if people don't show up, for example, if we have 33 voting instances in a year, if you don't show up on at least 16, you're voted out.
You're not a part of the DAO anymore.
So there has to be a tax on low engagement because Decentraland has been suffering from low engagement all its life.
And it's a terrible ecosystem as a result of that.
And then the third issue that I want to raise, which is really important, is how much do we allow the community to vote on?
What are the specific things that they could vote on, right?
vote on, right? Number one, I would say that the community creations, meaning NFT creations that
are added in the game, I think that should be absolutely vote based. I think people could be
maybe there definitely should be tiers on voting, like there could be like lower tier people,
voters, lower tier voters that vote on creations that are put up in the marketplace
every day.
I can bring an example of Dota 2.
Dota 2 had an insane community of people that were creating skins for the game and Steam
couldn't care less about the ecosystem.
And, you know, that's there.
That's that.
But people would vote for it for it people would make
it you know uh make them uh popular and eventually somebody would add it into the game later on and
then with regards to the game i don't really know i mean there's parts of the game that are part of
part of the story there's part of the gameplay there There's parts of the benefit, overall business model.
I don't think you can really vote or anybody's really keen on allowing players
to vote on business model of the games,
how they make money.
But maybe they vote on who are we focusing next?
Which characters are we developing next?
What storylines about like general topics like what
about would you like to focus next for example if assassin's creed had a player-driven economy
or player-driven decision making they would be like um okay guys we've made about we've made a
game about vikings we've made a game about italy israel we've made about whatever, US, China, what else, which culture or time period would you like
us to focus on? And then that's what they would make a game about, for example, just as an example.
So those key aspects could be voted for the community, but we really go in. Obviously,
there are things that the actual founder and the professional team knows best
how to do.
And you're going to have a lot of noise anyway, but you have to stick with your vision.
That's the idea.
So that's, yeah, those are my two cents.
Yeah, those are some really great points.
I kind of love the tier system that you mentioned here because totally agree, right?
I think when it comes to uh you know
different tiers or having a hierarchy for sure you know at the very top i think that the founders
the ceo the core executive team should probably have the best say as that they're the ones steering
the ship here some folks that uh you know are are on the boat they not might they might not get the
whole the whole the whole view or the whole experience.
Therefore, their takes might not be as valid.
But...
All right.
That's the thing, right?
Like, imagine they could vote themselves as well, like CEOs and the board could vote,
and they could participate in a vote next to you.
And something like a democracy where the Brexit happened, and David Cameron, who was the Prime Minister of Britain at the time, he said, okay, well, the guys voted for Brexit.
I'm not the guy who should drive you to Brexit.
So I'm going to step down and let somebody else step in.
I'm not saying that was good or bad, but it was a demonstration of people choosing whatever they wanted, right?
So that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, it would be awesome to see something like this in a game.
Yeah, I actually love that.
It really creates that democracy that we're kind of talking about.
And I'd be really curious to see how that unfolds
because I don't think we've really seen something like that before.
I don't know.
It's interesting.
I think this whole conversation really sparks up
a lot of different ideas for myself.
I think, like, we're still in a stage we haven't really seen something like that when it comes to gaming.
And, you know, on many fronts, I do think, to Sneaky Chase's point, I think a lot of these DAO ideas can be a meme.
But I do think in the right context, it can be very interesting to kind of see how this would all unfold.
So, absolutely love it.
I wanted to pick on Dave Dave, but I know he's in a meeting.
He just texted me.
He'll be done in a bit.
We love it, man.
This is how we do it in Web3, man.
We jump in between meetings.
We jump on spaces.
We reply through the DMs.
This is how we do it, man.
You're not on Web3 unless you're juggling like
five different things at once um also manic pixie thank you for wishing uh my girlfriend a happy
birthday i pinned it up on top um mr console what are your thoughts on the matter i'd love to kind
of hear your approach um i know as somebody who's very engaged with your communities
and everything that you're doing,
although there isn't much of a DAO put into place,
I'd love to kind of hear what you think on the matter.
What are your thoughts?
And yeah, I want to pass it to you, bro.
Yeah, fun fact.
Bigger at some point will evolve into a DAO at some point.
Is that some alpha?
Is that some alpha I'm getting right here?
Oh, I mean, it is a bit of public knowledge, but who reads white papers?
Who plays the videos our founder makes deciphering information till the end
almost no exactly so it's all you can't consider it alpha that's all that's all
saying guys we're spilling some alpha on this space I'm kidding yeah for sure so
for all who are here you should feel extremely extremely extremely blessed. Well, this is a very interesting topic because I haven't had to reflect on DAOs and the 2021 bull run concerning community ownership over assets, concerning community directing a project has somewhat died off.
And I can understand why. You know, gaming, in my point of view, is a very slippery slope type of business, right?
Because you're driven corely by the creative.
And that creative vision varies by individual.
Everybody has their own idea. Everybody has their own childhood.
Everybody gets extremely passionate towards building a game because they have this utopian
vision, which I would say is extremely hard to share across the board. I can understand DAOs playing their parts in funding game development.
That makes a lot of sense, and there's no better way to do that
other than through blockchain, which grants the full transparency.
Although when it actually comes to building the actual project, I feel ADA would play
its role later in the vision rather than right at the forefront of building the company.
Just as my friend said, it has low voter participation sometimes you find that the decision making criteria
is really centralized despite a doubt being a centralized organization and this is because of
ownership whales so on so forth and legal matters can really crawl up slowing and stifling growth so my take is that
it's a really good experiment it's an experiment that nobody is experimenting on and i just feel
it serves its purpose at a latter stage of a project maybe at some point you want to give the community full ownership because and just to mirror this with
what's happening in actual gaming where a game is built then finally it starts taking the shape of
software as a service it can take that route but to me truly that's just let's give community ownership a little bit more as a
extension of product life value strategy more than to build and to bring the project to life
because that can actually even be stifled and creativity can be killed and just development can be very, very slow if you have to involve so many people in.
But if you do, do it in the decentralized way because that just helps in accountability and transparency.
These are my sleepy takes here, buddy.
Some sleepy takes.
There's some good takes.
I love it uh before i pass it to dave dave i want to
throw it back at you one more time mr console and i wanted i wanted i want to pick your mind a bit
more around uh what was the reasoning around you know this the exploration of potentially
having a gaming dow down the line for bigger. Because I do think it is an interesting experiment.
I'm excited to see how that unfolds.
Again, you guys have done a very good job cultivating a strong community.
You've invited me to some of your events, and man,
the Bigger Energy is definitely a strong one.
But yeah, I would love to hear what was the inspiration or the reasoning?
Is it really, you know, you guys want to give more ownership to your community?
Do you guys think this is the future?
Is there any insights that you've gained from the community?
Why you want to explore this route?
I'd love to kind of explore the reasoning a bit more.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm probably not the best man to articulate this our founder is very fluent in how
he shares the vision but it's all just centered on once we hit certain milestones business wise
it's the best next move to put the community right at the forefront of driving this vision.
Just to get really brief into answering your question without sounding a bit salesy,
we have an arcade on one hand, and on the other side, we have a token, right?
Our arcade is what generates demand for our token.
Currently, we're in soft launch,
so we had to somewhat dismantle
how the bigger token is integrated in our arcade.
But essentially, the underlying basis here
is that every time you pay to play,
you utilize our in-game currency, bigger credits.
And when those credits run out, in quotes, it's fetched from the decentralized market where our token is fully floating.
Within the arcade, it's pegged. Now, once the arcade price, 0.10 cents, a bigger
credit equates that of the decentralized token, bigger, thicker price, that's when we'll be taking
the next step in granting our community ownership. I believe the business might have already broken even
and gotten some profits.
And then our founder can get hands off
and really allow the community,
the loyal holders to drive the vision.
I think that's the thinking behind that.
But I'm not really the right person
to articulate it as immaculately as Mr. Paul, our founder, does.
Yeah, absolutely.
That makes a lot of sense.
But I appreciate you expressing your thoughts on the matter.
I see some friends in the audience.
If you guys want to come up, Uncle Funk, we love you.
If you want to come up here and get a bit funky, you're totally welcome.
Feezy, I see you as well.
If you want to join us as well, brother.
But no pressure.
I'll send some invites if you guys want to come up.
But if you just want to hang in the audience because you guys are legends, you get to do that too.
Dave Days, do we have you back?
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I'm back.
I'm finally able to speak.
Sorry, I had to hop on an impromptu meeting to talk about a proposal.
Anyways, yeah, so let's talk about my bearish take on DAOs.
Yeah, most DAOs these days are not DAOs per se.
They are not decentralized.
They're not autonomous.
And they're essentially not organized or organizations.
They're not DAOs.
They most DAOs are semi centralized discord communities with Twitter X pages
and telegram groups.
I'm reading this off of a LinkedIn post that I read the other day,
but I absolutely agree.
This is, this mirrors my sentiment on DAOs.
They're essentially just discord groups that has a few,
a few admins in it.
And then basically they control, you they control what the DAO does,
and the rest of everyone else are just community members hoping to whatever they're hoping for.
Let's get down to the idea of DAOs, and especially in gaming,
because that's really the only area that I feel comfortable talking about.
A DAO in the game, let's get down to the idea of it.
What is the purpose of the DAO in the game? The purpose is to be able to give the player some sort of ability or some sort of
a feeling of control over how the game evolves and how the game is is is meant to be played and what
the developers should do with it and everything it's supposed to be a a vote there's supposed to
be a voting process to control what happens so instead of trying to develop a DAO, an organization within
the game that has control of the game and everything, why not just bake that into the game
itself, which is what I mean, what we've been working on, Marcello, with a game that has,
you know, city building and social aspects and, you know, voting processes and things where
players in the game dictate how, not how the game is built,
but how the game is played.
So in a hardcore medieval fantasy game, if you're a jerk, there's a bounty hunter guild
that gets funded automatically by taxes from the city building of the game to hunt down jerks. But
if you're like a super like nice dude, and you're always you're always helping people complete
projects, or you're, you're, you know, watching people while they mine and stuff like that,
then you gain social favor or reputation. And then that might, that might lead to an election
process to have you run that local city so that you can, you know, then become,
you know, Donald Trump of the game or whatever. But anyways, the real doubt is just the idea.
It's not the actual organization and you going out and then getting a bunch of your buddies
together to try to funnel a bunch of money to the top in some sort of a pyramid scheme.
It's really the idea of democratized control over how you live your life or how you
play your game. That's it. That's all it is. And what we have today is not that. You just have a
bunch of pyramid schemes with the people on top that are able to kind of divest the interest of
the entire group and all of their resources that have been pulled together for some sort of
idealistic, centralized, formal society, and do it what they want with it and pay themselves enormous salaries or
whatever so yeah dows as as they're supposed to exist don't exist today
let's go dave didn't hold back uh i fucking love it bro you're totally on point with a lot of the stuff you said
I love, yes we're working on something
behind the scenes
and I really love how you
approach the whole governance side of things
and around bounty hunters
and getting paid in taxes between other guilds
and all this shit
I think, yeah man, you really touched on something there
I want to throw it back at you
one more time, Dave.
Do you feel like, yes, okay, cool. A lot of this stuff, ideologically speaking, sounds cool.
Right now, a lot of it is just Ponzi. None of it is really happening with a lot of the,
like the central theme of governance is, you know, of DAOs are kind of there,
but it's not really happening the way we're talking about
it here. Do you feel like games
will eventually start
to adapt this more? Is this something
that games should explore? Should
they provide decision-making
governance to their community?
What are your thoughts?
I don't know. It depends on the game
that they're building, and it depends on on on what
they want for the game that's always up to the developer right like the like the if the player
doesn't like the game then they can play a different game um if the developer decides to
build a game where it's they're sharing control of their game and their effort and and and their
vision with the with the player base and the player base could then you know uh decide that
you know the the developer sucks and and wants to go in a complete different direction
or whatever i mean that's up to the developer but essentially like you're going to attract
gamers not because of the control that that that they can have in the game but because it's a good
game and that they want to play it and if there's the added benefit or or or action or whatever the
subtract or whatever it could be if there's the if there's this this option of having a dow and and
and having the players be able to uh somewhat affect like the lives and and and the livelihood
of the developers in the game then that's up to the developers. So I don't think that any developer should be forced to enact some sort of an idealistic version or vision of decentralized control over, you know, their essentially their IP, their intellectual property, their blood, sweat and tears.
I don't think that that should be forced.
I think it should be something that if a developer is into it, then for sure, just, I mean, like, let it happen naturally.
But I don't think that that's going to be a big selling point in games.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I mean, if GamingDials is the selling point of the game itself, then I think we're approaching it the wrong way.
But as a feature, as something building on top of a badass game. Sure, that could be a discussion.
But yeah, to your point, that shouldn't.
The same way, you know, like NFTs shouldn't be a selling point.
Sure, if you own the assets and they're on-chain digital assets, then that's really cool.
But yeah, they shouldn't be the main selling proposition as to why somebody wants to play the game.
Absolutely love it.
I want to check in on Ryan here from Open Loot.
We haven't been hearing from Ryan.
I've been trying to pick him out.
Are you there, Ryan?
Yeah, Ryan's just...
He's a listener on my...
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
The guy who came up, though funk yeah well as well as cat yeah
Well on my screen open loot's been on stage the whole time so maybe I'm I don't know maybe we're just
Having some so I'm trying to bounce back and forth between calls right now
Oh, okay. There's like two meetings this morning. So yeah, no problem. It's been no. What was the question?
Oh, and he just
shrugged for a sec.
Okay.
Sounds good.
What was the question?
I want to hear your thoughts
on the discussion or on gaming
DAOs and player governance.
Any thoughts
from your end or what do you think?
Gaming DAOs do not um gaming doubts do not work
they do not work yeah okay okay i mean you know what i love when open loot just chimes in with the
perfect like very definitive take i just love it yeah straight to the point. Yeah, we've touched on that a bit.
I think we've come to the conclusion they don't, you know, a lot of them don't work.
But Ryan, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Why don't you think they work?
What do you think under the hood?
Why don't they work?
And how can we make them work if ever we do want to?
We cannot make them work.
They do not work.
The collective cannot execute as enough to innovation.
What if you have like 20 people and then others are like voted?
Like those 20 people are chosen.
You need to have a one person down.
Jesus.
I love it, man.yan's not holding back well that's why i said
like the idea of the dow is is noble and it's pretty cool if you enact some features of the
dow within your game but like having control over like how the game is developed and operated is not
something i i can see happening but having a control how it's played like how the game is developed and operated is not something I can see happening, but
having a control, how it's played, like how the players play it within the game, like having some
sort of a control over this, this, like the, the society or the social aspect of it, like that,
that to me is, is probably the only way that it could work within it, within the game. But as,
in terms of holding the assets of the game and controlling how the developers develop it and stuff like that it's just it's just it i mean sorry but i think there's a recipe for
disaster i don't know i agree yeah whether we are in crypto or we're in a we're discussing societal
government everything is more efficient through one person. Yeah, you want to have...
Yo, he's not a part of this no Kings protest then, I guess.
No, Ryan doesn't hold back.
That's why we bring him on.
Yeah, no, I think we're onto something here.
I don't know. I love the idea behind the DAOs,
but there's definitely a lot of intricacies here
I think you know to your point Dave as well, right?
You want people in the community to steer the ship when it comes to dev, you know dev decisions
I don't know player, you know the player experience of player experience. Yeah, go ahead
Yes, and yes and no like
Community feedback is one of the most powerful tools that you could have when you're building a game.
The reason why we got WoW Classic back is because people just were tired of retail and the BS that they were creating.
WoW Classic has close to the same amount of players online daily as retail version of WoW,
online daily as retail version of wow like the 20 iterations or whatever of the expansions that's
just completely gone like after the pandas come on man like but anyways like the community feedback
is is a really powerful tool and i think that that is one very powerful aspect of of dals and
yes they should be and devs should take that seriously like if you look at the steam community
notes if you look at like any giant uproar over like a patch or something that a game produced that just like
ruined the game you need the community to be able to say hey that sucks you need to remove that so
in that aspect yes devs should listen but should they be compelled to because the community homes
owns the resources of the game no man. Man, I absolutely love it.
Yeah, that's a really great example with WoW Classic and that retail, man.
RIP, man.
The pandas.
Why they got to bring out the pandas?
Before we go to Uncle Funk, Mr. Console, I saw you raised your hand.
Let's hear from you, bro.
Yeah, for sure i mean a daos don't have to be comprising of a hundred plus members
right it could essentially just be an agreement between a few and one thing i'm also thinking
about here i hear that we are taking the argument that the DAO is actually getting very intrinsic in game development
When in fact DAOs can actually be very hands-off
We're seeing in traditional gaming that margin acquisitions is really it
And I think still that DAOs have the relevance.
It just depends at the stage of the project. And if it's used to pull resources, empowering
certain studios or pull resources to act as a publisher, that also has its use case.
It's not necessary that the community is getting in the nitty-gritty
of which game is getting produced and which Unity plugin is being used in the game.
I think if you zoom out, a DAO actually serves its purpose
and could be more needed now than ever in terms of pulling resources in an ecosystem where studios are failing to find that fit.
And once that's done, the DAO can agree to allow that studio to still have its whole creative thing going on without their particular input
i think i just wanted to raise my hand and to also bring that to the argument that
dows are not just in the nitty-gritty right they can also serve the purpose of being hands-off and
just bringing expertise bringing resources bringing some sort of catalyst that studios want
to aid them in their journey.
I absolutely love it.
Yeah, well said, sir.
You know what else I love?
Uncle Funk.
How are you doing?
Actually, let's give a round of applause for Uncle Funk
because the man is funky and he's just one of the best people I know.
How are you doing, brother?
Ditto, friend.
Nice to see Mr. Consul.
Dave, Dave got a lot of wisdom. I was like, Ryan was dropping those direct bombs.
Very nice, very nice.
Yes, exactly.
I agree with the sentiment that DAOs don't work
because I believe that democracy itself is so spectacularly complicated
that it needs a couple of bolt-ons, you know.
So when it comes to building, well, because, you know,
we're also building a game.
So building an environment where people have a say,
I prefer to have a democratic meritocracy.
There's a democratic meritocracy. So it's where, you know, we at least want to know
that you know what you're talking about and not just whining. because it doesn't take much qualification to whine.
All you have to do is be able to spell moderately okay
in such a way that people can pick up what you're throwing down.
And I think just being part of that,
I don't know if decentralized is really the right word yet,
but just being part of that organization, I don't know if decentralized is really the right word yet,
but just being part of that organization, having a voice is certainly something that the DAO itself can give you.
But at higher levels,
you would need to have a little bit more than just a token
or the money to hold 1% or 2% of the supply
and thus think that you're qualified to change the direction
of an entire project.
We'd actually want to know that you know what you're talking about.
So in my world view, I put the DAO as, okay, you've bought into this, you believe
in it. So let's start building a relationship that I would usually not want to build with other folks
because they're from the outside just throwing arrows and stones and running around with pitch
forks and torches,
but they don't really have the long-term vision.
They don't really have the inside track.
And often they don't have the intellectual perspective to make those calls.
So in having, you know,
those relationships develop with people who have made that commitment to be in your community, you're like, okay, that's the first step.
For me, you've invested, you've got the tokens.
That's a step.
It's not this step.
It's a step.
Now, let's see where we go with this.
Let's see, are you willing to be educated about the project?
Do you understand that this is a long-term project?
You know, thank God we launched this meme coin
before we did our main Citadel launch for OSP
because I don't know if we would have survived a game TGE
without the knowledge that we have now
because that intellectual, experiential perspective
is incredible.
You know so much more.
You know what doesn't work, what does work.
And you see in the community our
people who are not in your community will run away when they see red but people in your community will
jump in and buy more when they see red and and it's the same way in the technical build of a
project where where people really understand it and and have climbed into it will say oh okay
really understand it and have climbed into it will say, oh, okay, there are milestones.
There's progression.
This thing is going to take X amount of time at least.
So in that kind of meritocracy, they're fully aware that to have a voice, they must also
have the knowledge and the heart and the understanding of what we're doing
and where we're going to be taken seriously. So I hope that wasn't too jumbly, but really,
I believe the only way for me that a DAO can work is in a democratic meritocracy.
I love it. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, Uncle Funk. I'm looking at a time. We've got a few more minutes.
Mr. Big Daddy Phil, I know you've got a space in a few minutes.
I'll see you there if you have to hop off, as I know you're usually hosting these amazing spaces.
We're going to start wrapping it up. We have the homie Feezy that just pulled in.
I'd love to get your takes as well, brother, if you have anything you'd like to say around gaming DAOs
and player governance.
Are you bullish?
Are you bearish?
Is this something we need to explore?
What do you think?
Oh, to be honest, first of all, GM, GM, everyone.
I'm glad for having me up here on Kuma.
So it's been a very long time since I was in the gaming space.
I literally don't really have much to contribute to this conversation. I wouldn't lie.
I just wanted to just hop in and just get to learn more from you guys.
And thanks for sending me the speakers' invites. Probably next time I'll contribute to this conversation, guys.
I love you all.
Hey, brother. No need to apologize. We love you too. Thank you for being here and
Yeah, man, I'm gonna start wrapping up the space. I want to say big. Thank you to everybody that was here
Big, thank you to Dave Dave DGT behind gave you on a back
Uncle Funk Mr
Console and Ryan from open loot as well as big daddy Phil behind the Go Home account that just had to hop off.
Yes, sir. We do these every Friday at 10 a.m. EST.
Today's panel was a bit more casual. I like to max out the stages, but we haven't done that in a bit.
I might have to step it up and bring on some more cool projects on here over the next few weeks. But in the meantime, these were really fun.
Thank you, everybody, for being here on this beautiful Friday morning or afternoon or evening, wherever you are in the world.
Hope you guys enjoy your weekend.
And until next time, we'll catch you on the interwebs on this beautiful platform we call X.
Hope you guys don't get rugged too hard on other spaces.
But catch you on the next one, guys. Hope you enjoy your day.
Take care, everybody.
Peace!
