Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Generated with Schiller, the space where we talk about
all things computer generation, including generative art, code-based art of all kinds,
AI, computer science and research, anything that uses computers to push the space and use the tech
that's available at hand in unique ways. We like to get experts and builders and creators on the
space series and hear a little bit more about their experience. So thank you all for being here.
Want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor for the space merch. They take high-end fabric,
they add generative code and create one-of-a-kind items. They are a neo couture where every piece is
a luxurious one of one of X. They believe people are unique so their clothes should be as well.
So thanks so much to merch for presenting the space and also want to give a shout out to our
guest for today, Andrew Mitchell, aka Uncut Hems. How are you doing today, man?
Yo, what's up? Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be on Schiller space really is.
Absolutely. Yeah, just appreciate you taking the time to be with us. And also want to say GM
and what's up to our co-host for today, Fongy. How are you doing?
I'm doing really well. Thanks. It's been a good day so far. Just got absolutely destroyed at a
crypto version of Survivor that I'm playing. But besides that, having a really good day,
I'm a huge fan of Andrew's work and the vibes that you bring to the space. So just really
excited to get to learn a bit more about you today and appreciate everyone for showing up.
And it would just lovingly ask if you haven't done so already to give the pin post or space a quick
share, drop a GM, say what's up in the comments. It all helps the algorithmic gods that be and is
always appreciated. I'll be taking some notes on the chat. And if you have any questions, we'll
try and have a little Q&A round at the end, time allowing. But if you have questions and you want
to drop them in the comments now, feel free to do so, or possibly hop on stage if we have time for
it. But yeah, thanks for having me here as always, Bernardo. And thanks again for being here, Andrew.
Yeah, of course. We'll appreciate you being here as well, Fongy. And I think before we jump into
the conversation, just like a little overview of what the space is for anyone who's new or who
hasn't listened in on before, it's called Generated. And we try to just chat with experts
and creators on what they're doing, what their experience has been like using computers in either
creative or unique ways. Just because as a team, we recognize there is so much happening in the
realm of computers, whether it's generative art, data research, really, there's just so much going
on. And it's been a lot of fun just chatting with experts or people using these tools or code
in their daily lives and just see what they've been up to. So with all that said, let's jump into
it, Andrew. I would love for anyone who may not be familiar with your work or who you are, for you
just to give maybe a little background on yourself, and then we can kind of dive in from there.
Yeah, sounds good. Sounds good. My name is Andrew, obviously, and I'm a generative artist
from Virginia, and I've been making generative art for like quite a while. I started making it
before I kind of knew it was, I guess, worth anything. And then Grant, I'm good friends with
Grant and you, and actually we used to like break together, we used to break a b-boy together. So
him and I would talk about art sometimes over like a beer or something. And then
just like he got me into the NFT space, kind of, I went to visit him one day and then he
showed me art blocks and what they were doing. And I was like, holy shit, this is like P5JS is like,
I know about this. And so I was like, oh, okay. And people are actually buying this and making
this like, I don't know, it was just such a, like a light switch moment. And so the next day,
I literally started working on a project with it, which was Primera. And then, yeah, from there,
just been, you know, making generative art. I've really been making a lot of nature-based work,
but yeah, I think I'm rambling now. That's about it. Yeah, really appreciate the background. And
yeah, I knew your homies with Grant, but never knew where that stemmed from. So that's really
cool to hear. And it's awesome to just know like, you were like using P5 or like creating before
you even knew that like, you know, people were minting their work on the blockchain or that
something like art blocks existed. So very curious to learn more about that journey. But
going even beyond that, or I guess like prior to that, where did your interest from art in a
general sense stem from? And was there any like early influence in your life that kind of exposed
you to like art in a general sense? Yeah, I guess my mom is like really big into art and
and we live kind of close to the city or like we just look pretty close to Washington, D.C.
and that's like a great place if you like art because there's a range of museums and they're
all free. And you could just walk in and you can see like Rothko's or like the National Gallery
has so many nice pieces in there, like collections. So we would always go to there. I really like to
go into Hirshhorn and things like that. So just as a kid, my parents kind of introduced me to art,
just going and appreciating it. And then like growing up, you know, I'm terrible at drawing,
but terrible in the sense that like I'm not traditionally the great, a great drawer.
But I guess I like math and I like making music. I was always into music. And then those kind of
translate to GenArt pretty easily because it's the same kind of concepts. GenArts, I think you
can be bad at drawing like if you if your math is like art as well. So that translated well to
GenArts and just using like the stuff that I've seen and kind of consumed over my life, like it's
influenced my the way I see art and things. So it's just kind of like thankful my parents
and they're really, yeah, I'm lucky for that. So that's super cool. Yeah, it's great knowing,
you know, you had some parents that kind of encouraged you to explore arts or that, you know,
exposed you to arts at museums at such an early age. And it's also cool to hear about your interest
in music and math, because I think one of the things that we'll jump into in a little bit is
just like how math shows up in your work outside of just like strict code. But it's super cool
hearing those. And, you know, I'm curious. So you talked about your exposure to art. What about your
exposure to computers? Because you went on to study computer science. So like, where did that
interest come from? That was kind of random, actually. I was going to do like, I was just,
you know, like every freshman, I was like, I'll just do pre-med, I don't know, I like math is
cool. And I like math, and I like going on the computer, like I was into editing videos and like,
using, like I liked using the computer in high school, kind of doing things that like downloading
torrents and everything back in the day when my mind was cool. And all of that was cool. So I was
into like, computer, but I never really was introduced to coding until college. And I guess
it was like, I went to this girl's house that I kind of had a crush on. And her mom like gave me
this speech about how I'll never make any money. And I'll be in school forever if I want to do
pre-med. It really affected me. So I just decided to do computer science after that kind of shifted.
And I found that it was like pretty easy to pick up because I had like a background using computers
and like messing with windows and stuff. So it's yeah, I mean, that's basically the story from there.
I just found that it was really, really clicked. Just sitting down working on something like
computer science. I don't know, maybe people are going to hate me for this, but I think of it like
as a blue collar work of the future. Like when you're working on something on a computer with
just a bunch of guys and you're all on a call and you're just like shooting the shit. It's like,
it's really nice. And I just like vibe with that kind of feeling really well. So computer science
is just like, we're just like builders, but we just exist online. Yeah, it's a pretty, pretty crazy
comparison to make like in a really cool way. And I can imagine that conversation with that
girl's mom must have just been terrifying. I feel like those are never fun conversations.
Yeah, she was like, I think she had moved to America. She was like an immigrant and then her
her sons had done computer science and she was like, this is definitely what you want to do.
And I was like, okay, I think she probably knows what she's talking about.
That is so funny. But that's awesome that that kind of opened your eyes to computer science and
that you've come to really love, you know, working with computers and just that whole
like vibe of it. So it's really cool. And I'm curious in school, like was a part of your
curriculum, anything to do with generative art or like at what point did you start toying around
with these like language libraries and things like that to actually create artwork?
Yeah, we took this course called Theory and if anybody studied computer science,
there's like a theory course and I had this teacher who was like,
yeah, it was kind of a weird guy. And he would actually post salsa dancing videos online,
but that's a different story. But he had a we had a project where we had to do something related to
computer theory. And I found out about processing the version of P5 before P5. It was like the
original processing language that's written in Java. And I tried to build some kind of
non-periodic tessellation app that used Elite Motion to like draw, it's just like you draw
and it draws you squares. I have a GIF of it and I have a code, but doesn't really run anymore
because Elite Motion doesn't really exist. But yeah, I just made a project for for this class
involved processing. And it was like an art project more or less. And making an
operatic tessellation is kind of impossible. So I didn't really succeed. But yeah, it was just so
tessellation is like Escher's work, MC Escher. He builds these tessellations. So one that would not
be periodic. I don't really remember how it goes, but it's kind of like MC Escher, his work. And so
that's how I got involved in using GenArt. And then from there, I started to mess around with
things like I like making stupid useless things. Like I made this stupid Shakespeare app where you
like it would generate you a random poem using like Shakespeare's words. That was like a GenArt
thing that I built a couple years ago. Just I don't know why. And then I also built this weird
poem thing where you'd write a poem and it would turn it into like a square. So it would take each
word in the poem, Google the word and search the top image result, take the primary, take the
average color of that image. And that would be the image of one of the squares, but I lost the
code for this sadly. And then yeah, I don't know. I just clicked with that, that like visual
part of coding. Like you can use like coding doesn't have to be like all serious. Like it's
fun enough. That's super cool. And like, you know, a couple of the questions I was going to ask,
which I feel like you already kind of answered is like, you know, what about generative art really
stuck out to you? And it sounds like, you know, you just really liked playing around with things.
And over time, it was like, Hey, I can create really dope stuff with this. Maybe I should
dedicate a bit more time to it. It seems like that was kind of the process there. And then,
you know, I was also interested, like, how did you discover blockchain and NFTs? Did you say
that was through grants? Or did you, you know, were you already like familiar with the space
before that? Yeah, I was, I was familiar. I lost like, I, you know, I was like investing in
blockchain in 2017. And somehow I'm not, not rich, but like, it's because I fucked up. But like,
you know, I bought some Bitcoin and Ethan like 2016. And then I bought I bought I was I bought
link actually a point like oh, I bought link when it was on the fucking decks. And I sold it because
I was stupid. And then I was like, fuck crypto. So I stopped. So like, I was kind of pissed about
my outcomes. Like I lost a lot of money. So I kind of stopped getting involved with it.
And just kind of focused on traditional like waging like work and just like,
all that and then Grant, like pulled me back in. So I think it is to blame, you know.
That's funny. Yeah, I feel like if you get burnt in this space, it's very easy to let that like,
dissuade you from continuing. But it is nice having friends to kind of pull you back in or like,
reignite that interest. So that's awesome. And I'm very glad that you eventually, you know,
made the leap in and kind of continued and started minting your own work.
And I want to start diving into your collections, because you've got a decent amount of work out
there. And it's that a lot of them have some similar themes. Some of them are quite different
from your other work. But one thing I'm curious about, because I feel like I've seen you post
like pictures and, you know, you said you're from Virginia. And I feel like your,
it seems like your environment influences the type of work you create. You have a lot of like
flowers, outdoor like nature type pieces. I'm curious, like how your environment in Virginia,
and maybe that's time spent outside influences the type of work that you create or that you find,
you know, passion and visualizing. Totally, that totally influences it. Like,
we have a lot of woods in Virginia, which is nice, like a lot of like lush old woods,
because of the Appalachians. And we have those Blue Ridge Mountains really close, like I can see
the Blue Ridge. So like, it's just the mountains in the the mountains in Virginia are different
because like Colorado, super sick, the mountains are like, fucking beautiful, because they're so
big and have those white tops. But in Virginia, it's different. It's like, it's got that feeling
of like, it's like all the old people that used to go, a lot of has happened in Virginia, and you
get that feeling of like, history and like a lot of like old, like lost souls. And kind of when you
look at the mountains here, it's like full of, I don't know, it's like has this nice haze on it.
And so going out in the areas around here, we have a lot of nice flowers. And
we get all four seasons. It's like really nice. We get all four seasons, although nowadays, it's
kind of getting messed up. But and we have like, lots of good vegetation and things like that. And
I like to go out and like bite quite a bit. So I don't know, when you like look at, if you like
look at the woods or something, you get this feeling of like, silence that's serene. And I
make that come into my work a lot like this ambient noise kind of feeling. Yeah. So definitely
it does. I do I do like biking. I know you run like 100 miles. So I used to run but now I'd like
doing biking more. But yeah, I mean, biking so nice, because you could just see so much more in
like much shorter amount of time. So that's really cool to hear about. And that's also it's also
impact impact. But it is really nice to hear like a little bit more of the context on like
what you choose to create about. Because you have collections like flowers for your desktop
background, you have all of your work on super seems to be like flower derived. You have a
collection called the point of view. So like all of these things, you know, I was curious, like,
where does that come from? And it seems like your environment in Virginia really plays into that.
And one thing I'm curious about one specific collection that comes to mind is flowers of
Alfiron. I might be mispronouncing that. Yeah. No, that's in that collection, you kind of break
down the process of creating organisms using geometric functions, which construct the curves
that make up these flowers. And I'm curious if like, creating flowers or, you know, more like
nature scenes through code helps you better understand the actual environments or the universe
around you. And that's a good question. You're right. I mean, it does actually, I haven't really
thought about that distinctly. But really, now when I look at things, I looked at them in a more
geometric mathematical sense. If I look at like a flower or something, like if even a tree as well,
when you look at a tree, you just think about recursion, the concept of like, having the
function call itself, the tree has branches that have branches that have branches. So it really
does, I guess, affect me. And it does kind of work my perception of the world around me. But
I think it does amplify it a little bit. Yeah, that's interesting. Flowers definitely, when you
look at them, it's just like, you make a flower is just a loop where you're going from zero to
two pi, and you're doing either cosine, sine, and you're just rotating around and drawing the same
thing in that loop. So yeah, like when you look at a flower, it's just like zero to two pi,
you're incrementing by maybe, if I want to do 90 degree angles, I'll do pi over two. So now I've
got four leaves, and then do like lines, or you can draw a curve. Drawing flowers is actually
relatively simple to like get started, and then making them more complicated is obviously harder.
There are those like imperfections in nature, and getting that is so hard.
Like when I try to when I do flowers, I'm offering like, making sure that the usage of like space
in the flowers is important, because that's like, to model real life instead of having everything
be rigid, because real life, there's always that like, something's not 100% symmetric. So yeah,
it does definitely change my outlook on how the things around you look. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And yeah, I think like the imperfections of nature is something that, you know,
you brought up that I think matters so much. Like when you think about code based art, I think
collections or artists that have done it really well, there, it does seem to include some
imperfections. And it's not just rigid code based loops, but it feels like, you know, a natural scene
or something. I know, that's something that you and Grant focused a lot on for Primera, which is
just having that human touch, which I think we'll speak on a little bit later on in this talk. But
you know, another thing that kind of points to that, like, things being constructed by like,
much smaller things. So you know, I mentioned flowers of Alfiron, but you do the same in scoops,
and in a couple of other of your collections, where you're essentially constructing things from
the ground up. And it's really cool just seeing how you make code, you know, create these much
larger pieces. So yeah, I'm glad you were able to speak on that. And another thing that code based
art allows you to do is kind of have things iterate or loop forever. Your pieces in abstract
dynamism, dynamism, I think, it runs live JavaScript code in your browser, essentially
forever. I mean, if you have this web page open, the arts running. I'm curious if you could explain
like, what exactly is going on with these pieces, and why these specifically you chose to create
using JavaScript code that runs in the browser and kind of iterates or loops forever.
Yeah, I guess I had the idea of making something that was like, simple and subtle. So they're like
on chain. And so they're simple, like, they're just a few colors, like, moving, rotating, and
so making something that's simple that I could write on chain. And then like,
I guess I kind of was exploring rotation and rotational motion and how that works,
basically trying to remember how all of my trigonometry classes taught me. So like,
I started making Gen R once Grant got with me. And then I started thinking about like,
my trigonometry classes and trying to learn more about those. And so that that collection
plume that on chain one is more like a, it's like me kind of exploring rotation and twists
and curves and how that moves and figuring all of that out. And then I used those,
the topics that I learned doing that actually to create everything going forwards, all my flowers
and everything, based on the ideas that I learned when I created those dynamic extra abstract
dynamic pieces. So I think it was more, it was just like, like, I say, like, that's just me
on the notepad. Like, that's just me, like, sketching, like that, that those pieces are like
me sketching on a notepad. They're abstract. They're like, they're, they're, they're, you know,
like, so, so I like how they go forever, because it's, I mean, it's Gen R. So it's like a unique
thing about Gen R is you can make something that goes forever and just like, is running in the
browser. And so ideally, in the future, somebody would just have it up on the screen forever. And
I would, I think I really liked that how they looked as well. So yeah, I agree. I'm a big fan
of them as well. And one thing I didn't realize until like, it was a while after I started following
you, but your profile picture is one of those pieces. And I'm curious, like how you landed on
that specific, like static version of the abstract dynamism piece.
I think it's probably because I saw all these artists and I was like, damn, this is sick, like
black and white profile pic, like it's super subtle. So I was like, Oh, I got to get a black
and white profile pic too. So I made a black and white piece. And I was like, Oh, I use that as a
profile pic. That's, that's kind of a wack answer. But yeah, it was more like I saw artists. It just
looks so cool and subtle, I think. So, you know, I agree. It's also, it's pretty recognizable too.
So I was mostly just curious how you landed on that one. But yeah, I appreciate you adding.
No, definitely. Recognizability was a big thing. Yeah. I also remember Grant was tweeting something
that was like, you need to have your profile picture, be like your art and everybody falls
to him. So I was like, Oh, shit, I gotta do that. Yeah, probably some wise advice to take. But
another thing I'm curious about. So we had spoken on the kind of natural influences to your work,
your environments in Virginia, really playing a big part of that. But one of the first
sections outside of Primera that I saw you published was oscillators, which to me does not
strike as natural whatsoever. It's almost the opposite of it. And one very interesting part
of that collection is your use of tone JS to create sound or audio for the pieces. So
I guess I would love to learn like inspiration for oscillators. And also what that experience
was like using tone JS and had you experimented with audio in the past?
Yeah, so that collection was like, I created these still images that looked like Joseph Albers a
little bit they were like, if you stop one of the oscillators in mid runtime, it will it looks like
some weird Joseph Albers kind of super low level like cells or some kind of organization pattern,
some kind of architecture. And so I realized I could make them move. And once I started making
them move, I was like, well, these are moving, but they need it needs like some kind of audio with
it like some kind of component because it looks like it's oscillating because it's like some of
them look metallic, and like they're spinning and everything. So it's like oscillating. And when
you think about an oscillator oscillator is like a synthesizer, it's just an oscillator. So I was
like, I'll just put in some some audio. So I did some research on tone JS and kind of figured out
some things with how that works. And I made this like spooky kind of sounding audio like a loop
that generates it's in the uses the similar keys, I think they're all like minor keys, but
so that there's like unique arpeggios, it's basically like an arpeggio. And
it kind of sounded like like Pokemon, like when you're in the caverns or something.
I found that really cool. So that I was I like, I like to make music on the side. I don't really,
I don't release anything, I just make it for myself these days. But that kind of helped me like
figure out tone JS kind of and how it worked. The most tricky thing with tone JS, honestly,
is like the timing getting everything to start and match up with P5 JS because P5 runs in its own
loop and tone like it's like, where is it? Like it's just like it's running, but you have to have
to know where it's running and kind of yeah, getting that part about it is really tricky.
Because P5 has a draw loop that's always running and tone JS doesn't really have that it has like
you start and stop it. And you can add some kind of time signature to it. And controlling it is
quite tricky. Yeah, yeah, it's very cool to hear you know what that experience is like kind of
combining P5 and tone. And yeah, just want to say like that collection oscillators was very,
very cool to explore. I picked up a couple pieces on FX hash and like immediately went in and started
playing them. And I was like, felt like I was in Pokemon Blue and Lavender Town and like Team Rocket
just like swept through and like, just letched the game out. And then all of a sudden I was in this
like alternate version of Pokemon. And it was very cool. So yeah, just wanted to say kudos on that
collection. Because yeah, like I said, it's quite unlike some of the other stuff you've put out,
but it was very fun to kind of interact with and just hear the sounds and how it paired with the
visuals. So yeah, just wanted to say that. And thank you. That really means a lot. Thank you.
That's like the perfect vibe it's going for. So yeah, it's definitely like a murky vibe,
which I feel like, yeah, FX hash is such a great place to kind of drop things like that. And you
know, I know you've also dropped work on prohibition and a few other places, which
yeah, I'd love to get your thoughts in a little bit just on how that was exploring different
ecosystems. But before doing that, you know, one, this is like a sentence that I found on like
multiple pages of like the You're About Me section, whether it was like on your website or
on Decca, but you say you code art to counterbalance the chaos of daily life.
And I'm just curious, like, what does that mean to you? How does creating art through code really
like counterbalance that? And yeah, like, what do you find in creating that helps kind of maneuver
the chaos of life? I think it's like, you know, you're always working and everything like your
life is so chaotic. It's really, it's always throwing, throwing curve balls at you and like
making art is a way to get away from that. And kind of counterbalance those curve balls and
consuming art is also a way to get away from that. I mean, consuming art can be quite chaotic and
making art can be quite chaotic. It still is a balance. You balance chaos with chaos, but
it's kind of that that idea like I'm making. It's just like, it's like a way for me to release
is like I work and I make art in the evening. And it's just a good way for me to like
get away from that and kind of go into this different world. And yeah.
And but yeah, I can't I mean, art can also be quite chaotic. So yeah, it just, you know,
equivalent exchange. But yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, maybe, you know, you have like a less chaotic
or like more normal day and you got to counterbalance it by creating some thinking. I feel
like that's that's probably more like it. Definitely. Another thing I'm curious about
is just your having collaborated with a handful of people so far. So like, you know, a recent
collection that you've dropped was Modulo with. Yeah, yeah, with Rich Caldwell. So I was blanking
on the name. And then of course, you know, you talked about Primera with grants, you may have
collaborated with a few other people in the past, too. But some notable things about those projects
is that it seems like you're kind of the main coder or the main person bringing code based art
to the project. So like, you know, Rich is bringing the photography and maybe some other
like illustrative skill sets. But what has that experience been like working on these projects
with someone who maybe brings a different perspective or skill set to the table? And
how has that gone? It's challenging for sure. It's like, it's a good it's hard to balance
general with somebody else's work, because like, it, general is like a really steep,
not that it's not hard, not that it's like hard, and it's not, it's not hard to do it like,
but doing making general going from not doing general at all, or doing any coding to making general,
like you, without a few years, that's impossible. I mean, I guess if you're a genius, but
so getting somebody who doesn't do GenArt and me collaborating with them, it involves a lot of work
from my perspective, like building the actual art piece, and it's more like a feedback loop and
getting kind of feedback from them, and making sure that we sync on like the vision of the
overall project so that whatever I create is going to be in sync with their vision. And so
that feedback loop is important. I don't want to, like, it does feel a little bit like when
you collaborate, it's like the GenArtist in that case is just, is doing most of the work, and the
other person is probably doing the feedback work. But yeah, I mean, for that rich project, he took
a ton of pictures, like, and he came to me with these photos, and was like, here's these photos.
And I was like, whoa, these are kind of like trippy, they look like fake worlds, and like,
already, like, they look like, like an old school game or something like that, like,
they look like, like mother or like, and so, just kind of chopping them up, I've been really
interested in that idea of chopping up photos now with code, exploring new ideas. I think
somebody said something interesting, it was like unique affordances of generative art, create unique
art or something, I think it was said. And it's like, if you use p5.js to chop up an image,
now you have a new art form. And so, and yeah, that's kind of how that collaboration worked.
The other collaborations I've done, there's one I do want to talk about a little bit, it's called
Prozac Youth, it did with Tjo. And I don't think anybody understands it. If somebody does, then
I'm wrong, but I don't think many people understand it. It's like, interesting one to check out,
I think. Anybody seen that pieces by Tjo? Yeah, it's like a weird web page that we built.
Yeah, I was gonna say, as I was like, doing some research for this interview, I had gone into
Prozac Youth, and I was like, I feel like I don't have enough time to really dedicate to explore
this. But I've been meaning to hop in, because it looks fascinating. And yeah, my recommendation is
you have to click Dear Human. Okay, that's all the rest of them are purposefully like, there's
only one link in there that works. Yeah, I was gonna say most of them took me to like a 404
page doesn't exist error. But I'll click into that. That's a little in space alpha.
Dear Human is the one Yeah, Dear Human is the only link in there that works. And you will see very
interesting very cool things. But yeah, you know, one one other thing about the collaboration that
you did with Rich Caldwell is just like, you know, to your point, you had taken generative
code, mixed it in with photography, kind of created something new. And I'm just curious,
like how that concept came to be, who approached who because I think, like, one thing that, you
know, generative art affords, like you were saying is like the combination of mediums to create
something new. And it's something that I know prohibition has really tried to encourage just,
you know, code based artists pairing up with someone who may not have the skills necessary
to then drop a generative collection together. And it's something that I would love to see way more
of. But yeah, I'm curious, like how that, you know, relationship or collaboration came to be.
And then a second question is just on the specific collection modulo. The number 128 shows up like
everywhere. And I would just love to learn like the inspiration for that or like what that what
significance that plays in with the collection.
Yes, so that that's just that oh, to like a 128 bits like computer, which was like an interesting
idea. You can have a 128 bit integer for a computer. So like you can have a 128 bit CPU.
It's just kind of like, if you notice all gen artists do collections in 32 64, you know,
128 256 512. Like it's just like a little meme. It's like how traders like if you, you know, you
can get 69 to be good, like it's kind of that. So it's just a little meme. But the way that
collaborating works, honestly, I guess, like, honestly, I've never gone out and looked for
collaborations ever. People always come to me, I think there's quite a lot of demand for people
that want to work with gen artists. And I think a lot of gen artists are, I mean,
all the projects and things like that. But rich came to me and I saw the images and was like,
okay, these are kind of sick, made these pieces, just tested it out. I always just test the waters
a little bit. I was like, Oh, I actually really like how these look, they look like uncanny,
like something like satellite imagery of a world that maybe it's not human, maybe it is. And so
that really clicked with me. So from there, we just kind of release something. There's a few other
artists I've like talked to, and we collaborate, we are collaborating, I'm always like looking for
new ways to find out new things and get my name out there and make a good relationship with other
artists. And I think that like, gen art such a new tool that if I can help somebody out or like
make them more familiar with it or help them with a project or that like, it's good. So I
try not to release everything, obviously, but like if I like how a piece looks, I'll release it with
them. I see no issue with that. Yeah, so that's usually how it works. If somebody will just DM,
I'll get a DM and then I'll kind of it's like you. Yeah, being a gen artist is kind of interesting
because people come to you as if it's like a job request kind of because you are a coder at the
end of the day, but it's like, you guys are collaborating on the art form. And then the
gen artists, their voice ends up actually speaking quite a bit into the art. So yeah, that's super
cool. And it's interesting to hear too as well, you know, you speak to the code or like the
generative artists kind of their style showing up in the collection as you know, I'd imagine like so
much of the style, yeah, is input from the let's say non generative artists. But at the end of the
day, like you're the one coding. So it's cool like seeing, you know, some of your influences showing
up in a collection. And I just love the idea of like artists from different mediums coming together
to create something new and unique. So it's been really cool seeing Modulo hit the timeline. And
yeah, I need to go through and explore like some, we're gonna we're gonna drop we're gonna drop the
price on it. It's just FYI, we haven't announced yet. But we minted a bunch of them ourselves
actually, and we're going to transfer them out to people who had first bought. So everybody who
bought one is going to get two extra. And then we dropped the price just I think I don't know,
it's it's just stalled. And we love the art. So we don't want it to not end out. So we are gonna
drop the price on that one down to point Oh, or it was something like that, because we really do
want to get it get get get all the art out there. I would hate for just just get stuck that you know,
general just gets like sometimes I feel like some questions they just get stuck in the mud. And then
they just never it's sad. But yeah, definitely. Yeah, and you want the work to live on too. So
yeah, that's that's awesome to hear about that choice that you and Rich are making.
I'm also curious about Primera. As I know, like a lot of people will recognize that collection,
I feel like it's probably the first time I had learned about your work. And then that kind of
prompted me to explore your a little bit more. But there's a couple very unique things about
this collection. One that it's fully on chain. And then the second piece is that you guys really
focused on including this elements of a human touch into it. So I guess my first question is,
what does it mean for art to be on chain to you? If you could explain that to someone who's like,
how is this different from any other forms of forms of file storage? And then my second
question is more on that human touch part. But maybe if you could take the on chain portion
first, it'd be great to just get like a better understanding of what that means to you.
Yeah, on chain art is like graffiti. It's like graffiti for the blockchain. It's like you're
writing your code to the blockchain. Like you're putting a shit ton of data on the blockchain.
Like what are you doing? You're like, putting all this stuff on here, you're crowding it.
It's like I see it like graffiti. And it's like, you we, to put it on chain means like we just have
a script that we wrote to the this contract in the same way that art blocks right there. So I
actually used art blocks as a reference when I wrote the primary contract. And so I just created
a function to add the script and we just wrote the script on. Now, p5.js is a part of primary,
but p5.js is also on chain. I think math castles might have wrote it on chain a few years ago. So
you can pull p5.js from the chain. So that dependency I no longer consider like a off chain.
So work that's dependency like p5.js or 3.js is also on chain. That's no longer an issue. So if
you can pull down the work and recreate it, it's on chain. Like I mean, if you can, you might have
to pull down the work and pull down the dependency from another contract, but you can still create
it. And like, that that's kind of my definition of on chain is that the core script lives on chain
and it's been written to the chain as part of a transaction. I think writing it to the chain
cost it at the time of 2021. It was like 2k, but thankfully we made that back with Primera. And
yeah, writing writing to the chain can be quite expensive. But yeah, that's my definition. I
know there are some purists like the problem with the on chain like argument is that like
with GenArt, at least there's the preview image and there's the animation URL. And this is just
because of OpenSea standards and the image is a preview image. So really, is if the preview
image isn't on chain, is it on chain or is it off chain? Probably say it's a preview image. So
if the preview image is not on chain, then still on chain. The main artwork is just the main thing.
And like metadata description, those kinds of things I see as kind of arbitrary. I mean,
they're just part of OpenSea standards. And so OpenSea is an Ethereum. So we've kind of grasped
everybody has a different definition. But I would just say like, if you can create the art
off chain, later on by pulling it down or in 100 years, if you would be able to create the art
using the resources that you have available from the chain. That's it. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate
you, you know, providing your own definition. The what is on chain, what is off chain argument,
I feel like has definitely been beaten like a dead horse. But it's a fascinating one, because
there are some people that have really strong opinions, rightfully so. And that like really
value the extent to which an artist will, you know, preserve their artwork on the blockchain.
And then there's other people that, you know, just don't really care all that much. And that's
totally fine. And to your point, there's just several like, degrees of being on chain. And yeah,
to each their own. And there's like various definitions to use. So it's cool hearing yours.
And it's also crazy, because you had mentioned, like, at the time in 2021, putting Primera on
chain was like, you know, $2,000. And then I'd imagine when you went and published Necromancer
on prohibition, that must have been like a fraction of the cost. What was that like?
Yeah, that was like, I think it was probably, I don't even know, like, it wasn't even didn't
even register, you know, like, and Sky Meadow as well, you know, Sky Meadow legitimately came out
the last the ETH bottom that we had in 2022. It came out that day at the ETH bottom.
And so and it was like, point 02. At that time, and deploying that one was super cheap as well.
I was like, Holy crap, this is like, gas fees were like nothing, I think it was like,
eight or nine back in June of 2022. And then like, in 2021, it was crazy.
It's pretty crazy. Yeah, just how like, using the network ebbs and flows in terms of the costs that
it takes. But yeah, it's very, it's just interesting seeing like both sides of that.
And yeah, so another thing that stuck out to me about Primera is this human touch that you guys
like really seemed like you focused a lot on. And I'm curious, like, why incorporating that was
important to you, I feel like you may have touched on that earlier in our conversations about like,
the imperfect imperfection of nature. But yeah, I'm curious about why it was important to you
and how you go about achieving that through code. As I feel like often the argument against code
based art is that it feels very, you know, computer like or can and it's hard to really
get that human element to it. So I'm curious, you know, from the artist lens, how you approach a
challenge like that. Yeah, I think you just have to kind of make it a little like you have to change
tiny things like instead of drawing a rectangle, you have to draw a polygon before sides. You have
to make one of the sides kind of like messed up or a little bit longer than the other one. That's
like a really concrete example of like, because I can't draw or I can't draw a perfect circle. But
what I could do is I could loop from zero to two pi, which is the whole rotation. And I could just
draw a tiny line and keep going until I have lines all around the circle and maybe one of those lines
I've rotated slightly too much and now the circle is slightly not perfect. That kind of idea we put
into Primera. And so yeah, just having those slight imperfections is really something that
I like. But I also do, I would say I'm definitely like a mutual. So if I see general art that is
like perfectly, like is like perfect, like perfect circles, perfect rectangles, like that's still
pretty cool. Like, there's no I don't, I don't have like a bias towards either. But I do think
that since Grant's like a human artist, like we wanted to make something that looked like his
stuff. So yeah, he really gave me some images as like a motivation and then the color sets he chose
and then I stood up just a sight for him to refresh and that guy would refresh like all the time.
And yeah, we just kind of, that was it like just having those slight imperfections and having some
shapes that are just kind of like weird looking adds up the human element, I think.
Very cool. Yeah. And I have a couple other questions, but I do just want to say, we'll probably
transition to like a more Q&A from the audience. If anyone has questions or things to say to Andrew,
you can go ahead and request and we'll start to bring you up shortly. But Andrew, it's really cool
hearing, you know, from this collaboration with Grant as well as your work with Rich Caldwell,
just the influence that they can have on the collection. And, you know, you spoke to you not
really having like a bias one way or the other towards like perfect or imperfect code-based art.
But in this case, you know, it was something that having worked with Grant, you kind of wanted to
include. So it's cool hearing that. And I'm also curious to learn about your approach to interactivity
because it's something that code-based art, you know, affords the artist and the viewer to
experience interacting with pieces, changing them around, doing some unique things with them.
And so I also know there's a kind of an element to interactivity in Primera. And so I would just
love to learn like how you approach things like that and how you've leveraged interactivity in
your work. I guess Primera has a click to move it. And I think we just, that was like a happy accident.
I remember like we just, I don't know, I was just messing around because I wanted to test out
different views. So I made so you could click and I was like, damn, all of them actually kind of look
cool. So we were like, we should just include this so that anybody can click and they can, you know,
there's an infinite possibility right there. And the interaction is just like a powerful tool that
you can't have with other art forms, really. I mean, some of them, obviously, you can have some
kind of interaction where you could have users draw on your actual canvas or something like that.
But like with computers, it's easy to add that because like, I mean, a website technically is
generative art, and you're clicking around and using that website. So that I just, you know,
it's just like web development. And I mean, you're building art, but you're also building a program
and so they can interact with it easily. And it's, there's a lot of room for that kind of thing.
So that's definitely it. Yeah, yeah, it's one of the coolest things I think about code based art,
or like generative art on the blockchain or on the internet is that you can now like have this
experience that isn't quite there may be impossible with like physical work, though you can create
generative art physically. Having this live or exists online, I feel like, yeah, allows you just
a bigger opportunity for like something more unique. So it's really cool to seeing what people
do. And just like the extent to which there's interaction between the viewer and the art.
So it's always really fun, like just seeing how people create. And another question that I have
just on, you know, we had talked about your work on ETH, also your work on prohibition, which is
built on arbitrum. I know you've also dropped collections on FX hash, which is on Tezos. I feel
like I also saw something about work on optimism too. And so you've just explored like various
ecosystems and chains. What has that experience been like? Do you have preference to anyone in
particular? And just like, more of a general question, like how do you go about exploring
where to make your work? And like, how do you make that decision?
Yeah, I think mainnet I'm definitely biased to is definitely number one. And I'm the ETH maxi.
So mainnet is number one. And so I would say like, I look at mainnet as number one. And then I look
at the other changes, like, there's opportunity for me to make something and get it out there and
not feel obligated to like, restrict my creative flow. You know, so that's why I love using those
second chains, because I mean, everybody has that flow. And I don't try to stop it, because it's like,
you only live one life. So, you know, just keep, you know, I just don't try to stop it. So
I use those as ways for me to get my creative flow out there and keep exploring ideas and learning
new things. And then mainnet is like a number one playground to like, you know, that's about it.
Yeah, I do have a question for you. So what do you think my Twitter username means?
What do I think your what?
Twitter username is I was gonna ask that actually, but I think maybe it's just like,
non tailored pants. That's kind of how I see it.
That's a funny one. It's actually about uncut gems. But it's like, a sewing pun on the name
of the movie. And so I grabbed this username before I got into crypto Twitter. And then I was
like, this is such a good pun. I can't give it up. It's great. I don't know if anybody's seen
uncut gems, but it's like, came out a couple years ago, right before COVID is. And just, yeah,
absolutely love that movie. So okay, that's fascinating. So I have seen that movie. And I
have wondered in the past, like if there's any relation, but then I'm like, where where
does hems come from? But yeah, it's a great handles locked out. That's very funny.
Yeah, it's like a sewing pun with the movie. Yeah, that's good. That's what it is. Well,
where's the next hundred mile race? That was the other question. Because I used to run a lot and
like, got serious, and then like, got a job and then stopped running so much. But like,
I'm curious what you're like, not to derail, but I know you run a lot. So I was curious about that.
Yeah, it's actually interesting, because I'm looking at one in Virginia, actually. So we
might need to link up for that. Dude, you should. Virginia is a great place to run.
It's so nice. Let's go. We'll definitely need to move this combo to the DMS. But I want to say
thank you again for being here. I know we're coming up on the top of the hour. And I feel
like you might have a hard stop soon. But we can we can we can we can we can bend it a little bit.
Yeah, appreciate it. Well, yeah, I just want to say if anyone does have questions for Andrew,
you can request and we'll bring you up or just anything you'd like to say to him. And yeah,
I have a couple other questions. But Funji, want to hand it to you if there's anything
that comes to mind. Anything you want to say to Andrew before we start wrapping things up?
Yeah, I think one question I'd be curious about is how, well, maybe two questions. One,
are there any artists that are, you know, non generative or code based artists you are
yet to work with, and would like to? And then the second part of that is like,
how does that typically come to be? Like, it seems like you and Grant had that connection.
But yeah, would just be curious, because I know when we were working with prohibition, there was
there was a lot of people, a lot of creators that, you know, had not been delving into any
form of generative artworks that were getting really curious about the medium. So yeah,
just just thought I'd ask. Yeah, I guess the people that would want to work with most,
maybe like Corey. Yeah, Corey. Well, I kind of Corey Van Leeu. He's an artist from Miami. I really,
when I got friends, I visited him one day in Miami and kind of we became friends and
working with him would be nice. And yeah, I really like his art style. So Corey, definitely.
Who else? That's a tough question. Let me think about it. I have seen some work.
There's a few artists who make like nature work that I've talked to.
But I usually I'm open, like collaboration, usually, like the way it comes is they,
honestly, every single collab, actually, they've always come to me. I'm lucky by that. But I think
yeah, the artists will come hit me up and I'll just, I'm like a little bit of a yes man. So
if somebody asked me something, I'll just be like, yeah, sure. If I get like, let's try it. And if
we don't do it, we're not going to do it. But a lot of collaborations actually do end up just
fizzling out. But yeah, I'm always open to exploration. So they always come about in Twitter
DMs with outside of Grant, with like rich was just a DM to me, he was interested in see what
I had to say about his photos and kind of we took it from there. Yeah, I try not to like bother
artists too much. I know they're all busy. But yeah, that's a very good answer. So I didn't
meet you though. I found you one day. I did meet you one day, Fundy. So it's nice to meet you again.
I remember we met up in Brooklyn. Yeah, no, it's it's really nice to me to get to chat with you
again and hope to see you at something else this year. That'd be really cool. I think one other
question I'd love to ask before I pass it back to Bernardo is, you know, a lot of folks we talk to
on these spaces and in a lot of artists group chats, I've been in, or other spaces, have often
heard this sentiment of like, generative or code based art, I just don't get it. I don't see the
heart in it. I don't see the kind of, I don't know, those more like qualitative features that
one might ascribe to a painting, for example. I'm curious, like, what words you might have
to share with those who are curious about the medium itself, or, you know, type of creation
or toolset, whatever you want to call it, in terms of, you know, helping them reframe or maybe
add an additional layer of perspective to why it might be more appealing than they think at
first glance. That's a good question. So, I guess, like, when you look at Gen Art, you, like, get that
feeling of, like, infinity, kind of, it's art that exists, but it exists online and only exists online
because computers exist. And it's like, we've, it's, yeah, it's like, let me just think for a second.
We, like, that feeling of when you go online as a young kid, and you're really exploring, and every
single site is interesting to you, and, like, the websites are just beautiful to you, and just that
feeling. When you look at Gen Art, it's a similar idea, like, you're looking at just, like, a website,
like, you're just looking at a web page, I mean, and you have to think about, like, imagine a world
where everything is gone outside, and then it's been just absolutely destroyed, but we have an
online world where we're tapped into. Imagine how that would be with Gen Art. We have all of this
art that's now innate, and its natural ecosystem is the internet, and imagine a world where we don't
have anything but the internet, and so Gen Art is, like, it is the art for that. It's, like,
the websites are our architecture, Gen Art is our art for the future. It's, like,
that's, it's, I think it's so important to get that idea that, like,
as we move forward, like, true human-made art of the future would be all generative
in a world where artists would be unable to paint or something like that. I know we move away from
handwriting, and I literally write nothing nowadays, and I do everything online. I type
everything through the computer, and so Gen Art, like, imagine a world where nobody else is painting.
You need Gen Art for that, so just looking at it in that perspective, I think, is important,
because it also, it is important as well to understand that, like, in Gen Art, it is extremely
hard to draw lines that aren't straight. Like, it's extremely hard to do things, like,
things, like, in that might seem so basic to, like, drawing. It's extremely hard to draw a
human face with generative art. They're extremely hard, and people that do, like, human bodies
in their art, it's, like, incredible. Like, that stuff is just so hard to do, and just, like,
understanding those simple nuances is definitely tough. I feel, like, Gen Art, it's important that
we're, like, clear about what exactly is hard and what's not, because we are kind of at a,
I mean, Gen Art's not been around for that long, so it's hard to know
what's good. Like, I think the everyday person is extremely hard for them to curate Gen Art,
unless they themselves are a programmer or coder. I mean, they can curate it for an aesthetic sense,
but the technical sense, it is very hard, so it's important that we have, like, these leaders in our
space. I think Casey Reyes is a good example. He's, like, he built P5JS, and I think he's on
Artblox Born, and he's, like, a leader in this space. Jeff Davis, he's really big in art. He makes
Gen Art super big leader, Snowfro. Like, people that can get us to look at Gen Art in a different
way, and people that understand the medium kind of leading the charge is important. So, you know,
like, having that frame of reference of, A, Gen Art is, like, art for the future, right? It's art
for a world that exists online, and B, it's not the same as painting. Like, drawing things that
may necessarily be easy on paper are extremely hard on Gen Art, and then vice versa, like,
doing perfect rectangles really easy on Gen Art. So, that's it. Thanks so much for that answer.
Yeah, I really like that framing of, you know, art of the future. I think that's an interesting
way, and just how you were describing that made me think about some of the conversations
I've listened into from 113's space series, kind of ongoing lectures about, you know,
what is medium native art in the realm of Ethereum, and just thinking of art of the internet
is a really interesting framing. And I think as well, like, it's, we, I posted a clip from
our chat with Colby, the founder of merch. I swear to God, I'm not trying to show them right now, but
just the way they kind of formed under that premise of, in conviction, you know, we went from
one of one fashion, where everything was like Ho Kocher, or Kocher, I still can't pronounce that
word, to fast fashion, where everything is just like endless open editions, no, and I'm not trying
to call it people to do open editions, but it's just like endless supply of not necessarily the
most, not the best clothing, and the future of that being this merger of concepts empowered by
generative practices. So it's interesting to kind of like abstract that idea to, you know, the
physical realm of production too. And I think there is something really, really special, the
way I kind of see generative art is, you know, in terms of its appeal for a lot of people, we,
we often want, you know, we all want something that's that's unique and special when we're
collecting something or we're owning something. But we don't want it to necessarily be so different
that we feel separate from the collective or the group that we are like proud or excited or happy
to be in. And there's something very special, I think, about, you know, these well curated,
long form generative collections, where people all feel like they have their own, their own thing,
their own piece that is a one of one, but of the X that is the overarching collection size,
which creates this really like novel form of unity and shared experience, which is really cool.
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I do think that generative art is like long form, it's important,
that's not super expensive. I think that that's a big issue. I honestly think in spaces that we
started out a little too expensive, and it's hard to move back for artists, but it's like a
embarrassing stuff that you have to take, I think. Because long form, because I think it's good that
like when you do a long form, like if it's really a long form, I think Marcello, Sophia Rodriguez said
one time, like, if you do a long form, like, you want to have like weird freaking things, like you
just like take that algorithm and like just make it do crazy things that you don't even expect when
the myth happens. And so leaving room for that is important. So if there's that uncertainty,
I think it's important to be cognizant as well about that price point.
That's yeah, I think that's a really valid perspective. It was cool to see, you know,
I think Snowfro is a great example of that, in putting out the Hart and Kraft collection
with Jordan Lyle, as well as the dad bringers. I think that's, I was like, I'm never going to
own a bringer. Like maybe, I don't want to say never, but realistically, it's not in the gardens.
You don't know, you could fab, somebody could fab finger wine.
Yeah, I should go and look now, start putting out some stink kids, but I'm curious, I'm gonna,
and sorry, Bernardo, I'm like, I'm in the mic here, but I'm curious, what do you think about,
and has there been many instances of kind of one-of-one generative art? I feel like I don't
see that being talked about a lot, like of course, you know, one-of-one facts, but just
collection files of one, just one-of-one-of-ones. So that's interesting, because I feel like all
the one-of-ones I make are from an algorithm, so they're, technically speaking, like it's like,
they're released one at a time, but they're all from a similar code base. It's probably just
being modified over time, so it's really hard to find those true one-of-ones, where somebody wrote
an algorithm, and they sold only one piece from it. I think it's rare, probably, because a generative,
I know people don't like to argue about this, but generative art probably takes,
I mean, generative art takes a really long time to make, at least in some generative art. Some generative art
can take exponentially long to make, because there's always like something that you could tweak in the
code. You can delete, and it deletes it for real, so that adds an exponential kind of amount of time.
So I think artists are probably afraid to work on a single algorithm, and only release one piece
from it, because it feels a little sad, because generative art is truly like, you can have so many
possibilities. I think it would hurt an artist to, it definitely would hurt to only release one piece,
but at the same time, but that would be really cool, yeah. I think, I feel like it's not really
explored, like all the one-of-ones generative art I've seen is definitely coming from an algorithm
that could make 10, 15, 100 different pieces, but they just choose one, right? So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it was like, when I asked that, I was like, I don't even know if this question makes
sense to me. No, that makes sense. It also kind of raises that, maybe philosophical, or maybe just
mostly speculative question of, would the goose have been the goose, if it was a one-of-one,
you know, if ringers was just the goose, and it wasn't of a larger set that implied its rarity.
I would say no, yeah, I'd definitely say no. I mean, I think that,
Jen, I mean, because people see the full breadth of the algorithm, they can see that
this one's special, right? And seeing that full breadth is important, so they get a perspective of,
here's what the algorithm can do, here's the best one. And now you're going to have people who
buy ones that say, here's what it can do, and they might feel a little like, gosh,
I didn't get the best one, but it's all part of the story, right? So, yeah.
Yeah, thanks so much for chatting about those questions. And Bernard, back to you.
Yeah, thanks so much for asking that, Fungie. And that question absolutely makes sense.
Andrew, it's interesting, you mentioned Jeff Davis. We had him on, like, probably, like,
four or five months ago now. It was a while, but he had talked about his creations of generative
art before blockchain, and most, if not all, collections he would make were, like, hyper-curated,
maybe three to five pieces. Maybe he can even take one piece from an algorithm. So it's definitely
been done. I think that was even the norm before, like, mint-on-demand collections that, you know,
art blocks come to really popularize. But I definitely haven't seen it explored as much as
it probably should be. Like, I really like that idea. So thanks for the question, Fungie.
And that's cool. Jeff, Jeff is awesome, because I love that neighborhood collection. Dude,
that one is one of my favorites in our collection's neighborhood.
I love it. I love it, too. I think, yeah, I mean, his work with color as well is very interesting.
And you also mentioned Casey Rees, I think, is how his name's pronounced. He's someone that,
you know, I've been really wanting to get on the show. So hopefully, at some point, he'll be a guest.
But yeah, with all of that, Andrew, I just want to thank you once again for joining us. And my last
question is just, what is next for you? Are you working on anything right now that you're excited
to share about? Are you looking forward to anything in your personal life that comes to mind?
I know you just dropped this collection with Rich, so maybe that's what you'd want to focus on. But,
like, what do you want to leave us all with before we close out? I'm getting married on Saturday.
Let's go. That's so exciting. That's about it.
So that's the biggest thing. Number one, also, I learned I'm, you know, playing with SVGs,
SVGs and stuff. So I don't know if you guys have seen SVG-based generative art, but
it's quite popular. It's a little more, it's like KBART. But yeah.
Hell yeah. That's so exciting. Well, early congratulations on the wedding. That'll
be a great time. I hope you have a good weekend. And that's very cool to hear about your
experimentations with SVG generative art. So thanks for that. And yeah, just thank you so
much for the time today. It's been such a great conversation and really fun to hear more about
your experience with generative art and just, like, where you draw inspiration from.
So appreciate you sharing the time with us today.
Yeah. Thank you for having me. And, like, I mean, I draw inspiration from out there,
but I really do draw inspiration from you guys and, like, just, you know, the culture
online and on Twitter is just so motivating, man. And it's just,
yeah, thank you to what you guys do on Schiller. Thanks.
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. And also want to give
a shout out to Murch, our sponsor for Generated. Really appreciate them presenting the space and
also what they do with generative one of one of X fashion. So, yeah, thank you to Murch and
Fungi. Anything else before we close out? No, that's it. Yes. So just thank you so much,
Andrew. This has been an awesome chat to sit back and take some notes on. Just hope you have
a great rest of your day. I want to thank you for your time and willingness to chat with us all.
And, yeah, to anyone that is free around noon tomorrow, Come and Hang will be hosting our
weekly Schiller Vibe Space, Bernardo, Deez, and myself. There's no toppings. No toppings.
There's no toppings, actually. That is true. But there's also no topics and there's no recordings.
And you're all welcome to come and hang. So we'll see you then.
See you all then. Thanks, everyone.