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Gitcoin + Climate Comms w/ @BenWest
Recorded: Oct. 19, 2023 Duration: 1:08:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
I see Ben here.
Ben, I have sent you a speaker request.
Let me know if you're able to accept it.
Yeah, let me share.
Yes, we have Ben with us.
Let me share the space.
Hello.
Yep, yep.
GM, GM.
How are you, sir?
All that good stuff.
Hey, guys.
Can you guys hear me okay?
Great, great.
We're really glad that you're sounding very clear.
Good.
At my end, at least.
I hope the rest of them can hear you, sir.
We'll just wait for a couple of minutes,
see if anyone else turns up,
and then we'll begin.
That's okay with you, Ben?
Yep.
How's everything going at your end, Ben?
All good?
Yeah, you know,
lots of balls in the air as usual,
but having a good time.
Great.
I hope you finished your dog's walks
and your back settled down.
Or did you have a juggling session as well today?
Dogs are okay.
One of them has a sleep on the couch next to me
and doesn't need to go out for another few hours,
so we should be all right.
And, yeah, maybe some juggling later.
That depends.
Great, great.
I'm hearing some static come from your end.
Is it just me or Guido?
Is it that way for you as well?
No, Ben had some static and some echo too.
Oh, really?
I could leave and rejoin
if you think it might help?
Yeah.
Just try rejoining once.
Okay.
I think you should be fine.
Okay.
I'll try.
Hey, Jerry.
Hey, Sean.
Thank you for joining in.
Hey, Ritu.
I've just added you as a co-host as well,
just so that we keep the space stable.
Yep.
We can see Ben's back.
Ben, could you just test your vocals again?
Testing, testing.
I think it should be fine this time.
Testing, testing, testing, testing.
Yeah.
Better?
Better?
Good.
Okay.
Great.
Just a few more minutes, guys,
and I'll start the space officially.
In the meantime,
I would request everyone who's here
to retweet and share the space
so that we have more folks tuning in.
We have some great conversation
lined up with Ben West.
As most of you are aware,
he's the program lead at Gitcoin,
and we're too excited to have him.
He's always been a friend to Atlantis,
and it's always nice to keep having him
on the Atlantis Climate Radio
to share more of his wisdom
with the larger group.
And it's an exciting conversation
that we have lined up,
some good questions
that I've curated at Git.
Thanks for Ritu and Guido's help
with those as well.
But yeah,
we'll be starting in a couple more minutes.
You can see Wasabi has joined in.
Thank you, Wasabi, for turning up.
Thank you, Jerry.
You can see Faizr here as well.
Great, great crowd.
We have the region master, Jimmy,
also in the house.
Thank you, Jimmy, for turning up.
This is going to be an exciting conversation.
Just an update, like, we officially have the GG19 dates.
I just saw this tweet put out by the Gitcoin team.
It's starting from now, but 15th to 29th.
So, get ready.
The shilling begins soon,
sooner than most of us expected, I guess.
But yeah, it's always nice to see that, you know,
the team back at Gitcoin is rallying up,
getting ready for another round again.
It's so encouraging to see that, you know,
these legends just keep putting themselves,
grinding every day,
hustling to just help fund public goods.
It's amazing.
I think there is a parallel Gitcoin citizens shill space
also happening with Gitcoin.
Is it happening right now?
Not that I know of, but maybe.
There's so many things going on,
I don't even always know.
I think we're good to start.
We'll start and we'll pick things up.
I think we'll have more folks joining in soon.
I'll be sending out speaker requests
to the rest of the crowd as well
as we move on with the conversation.
Just, you know, starting the space off
with a small introduction.
From my end,
Hi, everyone.
Myself, Kiran.
I'm leading the community and media
here at Atlantis Tower.
And we host
at the Atlantis Climate Radio
every Thursday
in an attempt to
bring changemakers in our space
to come share their stories with us.
Whatever wisdom and advice
they have to share with the larger group,
this is a platform
that we are trying to build
and we've been hosting
many, many speakers.
And I think, if I'm not wrong,
this is probably the third time
that Ben's here with us.
But, yeah, like,
like I keep telling
everyone in this space,
like he's always been a
friend to us
since the time we first featured
on Gitcoin Climate Round.
And he's been
one of those personalities
who's really,
you know,
helped us and supported us
through every twist and turn
that we have faced.
And he's always available
for anyone who DMs him
or tweets directly.
He just up and shares
everything that he
may be able to offer.
And it's really encouraging
to have such people
around us supporting us
through every turn
that we take
in our early stages.
Without much further ado,
like, I would like to,
you know,
welcome my two co-hosts,
Guido and Ritu.
And we'll be
asking Ben a few questions
that we feel
every person
who's building in this space
need to be aware of.
And, you know,
whatever wisdom
we can share
from Ben's side,
I think we're trying
to have that conversation today.
So, Ben,
welcome to that
Plant is Climate Radio.
I'm honored to host you
today as well.
Like always,
like it's always going to be
an interesting conversation.
I know that.
But let's just quickly
turn to the first question
that we have.
We ask every changemaker
who comes on this space
one important question,
right?
It's what brought you
to the climate sector?
What was that one thing
that happened in your life
that made you stop
and think about
a region future?
Wow.
I mean,
for me,
it's been a pretty
lifelong journey.
I've been involved
in community organizing
and activism
one way or another
for a long time.
I think probably
like a big turning point
for me where I went
from working on
many different issues
to really focusing
on climate
was actually
when I started meeting
some folks
who were experiencing
the impacts
of climate change already
and were,
you know,
increasingly aware
of the potential
impact
in their,
you know,
in their countries.
In particular,
there was a young woman
from the Maldives
who had won an award,
I think,
at the age of like 15 or 16.
This is going back
quite a number of years,
like,
must have been like 2009,
something like that.
And she was speaking
in Vancouver
at a rally
that I had helped
to organize
and it just had
such an impact on me
that I really
committed myself
even more
to working on this issue.
You know,
it's frustrating
seeing that so many
of the solutions
are right at our fingertips
yet we're not
using them,
we're not implementing them.
And,
you know,
I've looked at
the Web3 crypto spaces,
you know,
one avenue
to help finance
and coordinate
and organize
and,
you know,
and sort of shift culture
in some positive ways
for a number of years.
And it's,
you know,
really cool to see
projects like yours.
And,
you know,
thank you so much
for having me here.
It's always a pleasure
to be part of these calls.
And definitely,
it's a two-way street.
You know,
I make myself available
because I am so inspired
and excited
by what people
such as yourselves
are doing.
you know,
very happy to be here with you.
And yeah,
I guess that was
kind of a turning point
for me
was really
that kind of
human aspect
and sort of hearing,
you know,
from people about,
you know,
what this looked like
for them
in their lives
and in their world.
Great.
It's really,
you know,
it's something for me
like personally
when I listen to people
say that their region
journey started
a long time ago,
way before I even
thought about this
personally.
But it's encouraging
to even share
the stage with you,
Ben.
I'm really honoured.
When we think about,
you know,
ever since we entered
the Gitcoin climate
farms
and from the get-go
you've been
so kind enough
to show up
and share your knowledge
with the rest of us,
right?
What would you say
are some of the highlights
of working with Gitcoin
and your journey
with Gitcoin
so far?
I mean,
honestly,
it's quite an honour
to have this
responsibility
and role.
For me,
the highlights
are often
the relationships
that I see formed
between projects
and sort of
seeing the success
and the growth
of projects
from one round
to the next.
You know,
I often quote
my friend Pranav,
you know,
who's been actively
involved in the
climate team,
which is now
becoming this new
entity,
which I'm sure
we'll talk more
about,
you know,
the Climate
Coordination Network.
He once said
that people come
to Gitcoin
for the cash,
but they stick
around for the community
and,
you know,
I've definitely
seen that play
itself out
in real time,
you know,
whether it's
new relationships
that are made
on Twitter spaces
you know,
just seeing
projects come
together and
coordinate and
collaborate and
share code
or find
a co-founder
or pivot
and,
you know,
form a new
partnership
or coalition.
You know,
it's just kind
of seeing
that happen,
you know,
makes a lot
of this feel
worthwhile and
I definitely
love seeing
the updates
from,
you know,
groups like
yours and
Iowa,
Uganda,
with all
the amazing
photos that
they share,
you know,
just seeing
the kind
of steps
along the
way of
these projects
that,
you know,
got some
help from
Gitcoin along
the way,
in some cases
may not even
have existed
without Gitcoin's
help,
you know,
and that just
really makes
this work feel
worthwhile.
You know,
it's the real
world results
and the
outcomes that
really are
important to
me and I
think the
relationships
that underlie
them are
really what
makes that
all possible.
yeah,
I just love
watching that
happen.
Amazing.
That's so
true.
Like,
big shout
out to
Iowa,
Uganda,
because we
ourselves are
a big fan
of their
work and
it's crazy
how,
like you
said,
most of
these projects
are in
debt towards
the funds
raised on
Gitcoin
because some
of us
wouldn't
have this
kind of
runway if
it wasn't
for Gitcoin
and really
grateful for
the opportunity
as always.
Something that,
you know,
I did come
across this
particular grant
called Elephant
Room Climate
Communications.
I've been
following your
work for quite
some time,
but for the
rest of the
group,
could you
share more
about this
project?
Just a bit
curious.
Yeah,
sure.
It's
actually one
of the
first grantees
that I
personally
onboarded into
Gitcoin when
I first got
involved as
a community
member going
back to
GR12 or
even 11,
before the
round was
organized.
Elephant in
the Room is
actually a
project that
myself and
an old
friend,
this woman
Tara,
who's also
involved in
the climate
team,
but is
somebody who
I've done
work with
for 20
plus years
in the
environmental
space.
She's
actually been
involved even
longer than
going back
about 30
years.
It was
basically one
of two
projects that
I helped
onboard to
try to
find ways
to fund
the work
that people
that I
had a lot
of respect
for were
doing.
It's
something that
I was
involved
in various
different steps
along the
way.
actually used
to be an
entity called
the Great
Climate
Race,
which
was a
running
event that
myself and
my partner
organized,
which raised
money for
solar projects.
That entity,
the legal
entity behind
it, the
nonprofit,
has been a
vehicle for
a variety of
other projects
that Tara and
I have been
involved in
over the
years.
The majority
of the funding
that's raised
by that
particular
grantee
goes to
Tara as
well as to
supporting some
Indigenous
communities that
we've worked
with.
Beyond Fossil
Fuels is the
other project
that was
one of the
first ones
that I
onboarded.
All of the
funding that's
raised from
that project
go directly
to either
Indigenous legal
cases or
to some
Indigenous
climate
activists in
British Columbia,
Canada, who I
worked with for
many years
fighting oil
pipelines and
other fossil
fuel
infrastructure.
That's really
the background
of it.
Elephant
Room is now
doing research
with the
Ethereum
Foundation on
blockchain-enabled
climate solutions,
which is really
like Tara's
full-time thing
and I help out
a little bit
off the side
of my desk.
There's a lot
of interesting
overlap with
the folks
that I've met
and the stuff
that we learn
through working
together on
supporting these
grants programs
that has opened
the door to a
lot of
understanding of
what the
cutting edge
of ideas that
people are
experimenting
with.
A little
bit of
alpha for
you.
Stay tuned.
We're going
to be sharing
some public
facing versions
of our work
with the
Ethereum Foundation
in the not
too distant
future.
All of us
wear multiple
hats in
Web3, but
I'd be very
eager to
share this
with everybody
in the
climate community,
in the Web3
community, for
your thoughts
and feedback.
Really what
we're trying
to do is
look at
different use
cases of
how blockchain
technology
can be
useful to
climate
solutions from
a lens of
having spent
many years
working on
climate solutions
before doing
it with
blockchain
technology, but
now looking
at how we
can unlock
some real
world opportunities
to help
accelerate
climate solutions
using this
tech.
Stay tuned
for that.
I can also
tell you we're
thinking about
doing a
virtual event
in the early
next calendar
year, which
will probably
be a
partnership
with this
new climate
coordination
network and
some other
folks.
Stay tuned
for that as
well.
Getting all
the alpha
here.
Great.
I'm glad I
asked you
this question.
I wanted to
ask more
about the
elephant room
climate
communication,
but thank
you for
sharing the
alpha.
I think I
don't have
to dive
down much
deeper than
that.
I'll be
waiting.
I'm too
excited to
see how
this
progresses
for you
and Tara.
Kudos to
her as
well.
Although we
don't have
her on
the call
here, just
send our
regards and
best wishes
to her
from your
end.
I will
indeed.
So let's
talk to her
right before
this.
I'll
definitely
pass it
She's not
on Twitter
much.
I'll try
to get her
to join a
call in
the future.
The real
ones are
never on
Twitter,
but we
know that.
Anyway,
talking about
environmentalism
and the
drama unfolding
at Gitcoin,
how did
you all
deal with
this big
shell
controversy
that we
saw during
GG18?
How hard
was it
for you?
It was
nothing new
for me,
honestly.
If you
saw my
Twitter
thread about
the issue,
I absolutely
hated seeing
people be
upset with
Gitcoin.
that was
awful.
It hurt
my heart
to watch
grantees
struggle with
how they
wanted to
engage with
this.
Honestly,
I think the
communication
of the
partnership
was fumbled
in some
ways on
our end,
in part
because it's
difficult to
navigate
communicating
things with
a large
corporation
and the
timelines
involved.
I do
personally
still think
it was
the right
choice to
make those
funds available
to people
and for
grantees to
make their
own decisions
about whether
they wanted
to take
these funds
or not.
It definitely
was a
difficult
situation just
in terms of
navigating all
of that.
The part
that's not
new to me
is the
conversation
around dirty
money.
As somebody
who worked
in environmental
politics and
in the NGO
sector, to a
certain extent
all money is
dirty money.
We live in a
global oil
economy and
a world that's
very much run
by the
military-industrial
complex and
a lot of
these issues
are quite
systemic.
I've definitely
seen very
similar
conversations
happen and
take all
kinds of
different
shapes and
sizes in
a variety
of different
organizations
over the
years.
From that
perspective,
like I said
in my
Twitter thread,
I felt like
it's almost
a lose-lose
scenario.
You either
have less
money for
the important
work that
you're doing
or you
end up in
this situation
where people
are upset
about the
optics of
the relationship.
I think it's
a shame that
some of the
people that
we were
talking to
at Shell
weren't more
visible in
this.
I think
that's
something that
might change
in the
not-too-distant
future.
talking about
who's
involved and
who we're
talking to
and what
we're working
on and
trying to
make more
of the
expertise and
usefulness of
some of the
folks within
Shell that
are trying to
make things
better from
the weird
position that
they're in.
I do think
that there
are some
good people
inside of
some pretty
awful corporations
and frankly
I think a
lot of it
has got more
to do with
systemic issues
than it has
to do with
any one
particular
corporation.
As long as
we live in
a world
where corporations
are governed
by profit
maximization
mandates and
limited shareholder
responsibility and
limited liability
corporations,
you basically
create a machine
where as long
as something's
legal people
are going to
try to do it
and ultimately
I don't think
it comes down
to whether
good people
or bad people
are working
behind companies
and in my
life I've
definitely met
a lot of
good people
who are
trying to
use the
resources of
big companies
to try to
affect change
for the better
and in my
mind one of
the things we
would want a
company like
Shell to do
is to put
money into
supporting the
kind of work
that many of
our grantees
are doing.
That being said
I hated seeing
our logo next
to Shell's the
way that it
was represented
and I
thought a lot
of the nuance
and stuff
that we had
talked about
in some of
our conversations
internally got lost
in the way it
was communicated
and honestly
I didn't think
it was the
right decision
for us to
remain silent
while the
whole thing
was blowing
It kind of
ate away at
me to not
post what I
was thinking
sooner.
but this is
the nature of
dealing with
relationships
with big
companies and
big organizations
and sometimes
things move
too slowly
or get
messed up
along the
way.
I would
definitely
encourage people
to check out
the governance
posts that have
come out
recently about
this.
There's a
new governance
post about
the Shell
situation coming
from the
executive director
of Gitcoin
Foundation,
RENA,
which has
just gone up
recently.
plus there's
also a post
about GG19
that's from
the program
team talking
about what
our plans
are for the
upcoming grants
program and
some of the
things that are
changing as
well as a
post that
just came
out from
John talking
about the
Climate
Coordination
Network and
what the
plans and
future are
there.
It was
definitely a
rocky road
and glad to
talk about it
but I think
one of the
bigger problems
was the lack
of nuance.
sort of in
the way that
we presented
it and then
the way that
people reacted
to it.
So I
completely
understand what
you're saying
but how do
you handle the
community in
these scenarios?
Like any tips
you can share
with some of
us who are
trying to build
collectives?
Any tips on
conflict resolutions
that have come
in handy for
you personally?
Oh man,
I mean just
being honest
and straightforward
and like
speaking from
the heart as
an individual
I think is
the first and
foremost thing.
You know,
the more that
you sort of
speak like a
corporate entity
and sort of
play games or
try to hide
from responsibility
I think the
worst things get
and the more
that we can
interact with
each other at
that human
level.
Like I'm a
big believer in
the importance
of decentralization
and like
decentralized
organizing.
You know,
I think it
actually makes
for better
outcomes and
like people
feeling respected
and honored
and trusted.
You know,
it's not easy
but I do
think it's
like fundamentally
important.
You know,
having clear
guidelines and
like,
you know,
shared
understandings
you know,
how conflict
resolution will
be done
definitely goes
a long way.
I mean,
I honestly think
a lot of the
frustration that
people had with
that Shell
situation was
that it was
a surprise.
You know,
that it felt
like,
you know,
we talk a lot
about Gitcoin
being this
decentralized
entity but,
you know,
where was the
opportunity to
get involved
in that
discussion?
And,
you know,
there definitely
has been a lot
of discussion
that's happened,
you know,
kind of after the
fact.
I wish we had
done more of
it before.
You know,
there definitely
was,
you know,
some conversation
that happened
between work
streams and
between people
that were sort
of closer to
the center of
Gitcoin but it
didn't radiate
out far enough.
You know,
and honestly,
I'm a big fan
of the idea
of courageous
conversations.
This was
something I
learned in
workshops,
you know,
many years ago
kind of getting
involved in
leadership and
non-profits
lifetimes ago.
You know,
the idea is
like basically
when you start
your day,
you think to
yourself like,
what conversation
am I not having
because I'm
uncomfortable about
it that would
help advance
my work or
our work
together?
And then
thinking about
how to have
that in a way
that is genuinely
centered not
in like anger
or ego but
like in genuinely
trying to move
the work forward
collectively.
And, you know,
even potentially
like doing some
role playing of
that conversation
before you have
it if necessary
or kind of
writing out
the kind of
core things
that you're
trying to
communicate
proactively.
You know,
frankly, I don't
feel like I do
this enough in
my day-to-day
life still but
I love the
principle of it
and definitely
whenever something's
emerged where I
can sort of
feel that little
inkling that
like I'm
avoiding a
conversation that
I should be
having, I try
to be proactive
about it and,
you know, try to
come to that
conversation in a
way that's like
genuinely trying to
help everybody
involved instead of
like pointing
fingers or like,
you know, kind of
being based in a
place of anger or
reactivity.
You know, and
like the more that
you can model that,
the more that other
people can emulate it
and, again, it
kind of comes back
to those sort of
shared set of
understandings.
So, you know, part
of what I kind of
came back with the
shell situation,
like my governance
post about it, you
know, yet another
governance post to
point to was about,
you know, setting
guardrails.
Like, you know, what
kind of partnerships
would the community
like to see us take
on or not like to
see us take on?
You know, and I do
think there's going
to be a wide range
of kind of
partnerships and use
cases of Gitcoin's
tools.
And Gitcoin's
working towards this
idea of credible
neutrality.
You know, the idea
that anybody can use
these open source
tools in whatever
way they want.
You know, I happen
to be a pretty
political and, like,
motivated person who's
been working on
making change for the
better for most of
my life.
So, you know, I do
see sort of upsides
and downsides to
credible neutrality,
honestly.
Like, I personally
wouldn't want to see
a Nazi round as part
of our Gitcoin
program, for example.
You know, and I use
that as kind of
an extreme example,
but there's probably
lots of kind of
more nuanced sort of
steps in between.
You know, so my hope
is that the Gitcoin
program itself, like
our quarterly cadence
of, you know,
running grants
programs together,
grants rounds that
happen every quarter,
you know, I hope that
those still, you know,
feel like they're
connected to a set of
values that are like
regen values that are
sort of life-affirming
positive values.
You know, but, you
know, as our
community grows, you
know, what the
community's values are
also becomes more
diluted.
You know, we represent
a lot of different
communities and a lot
of different places.
So, you know, I think
that's going to be an
ongoing conversation,
but, you know, I'm
hopeful that we can do
that in a way that
really, you know, is
in keeping with the
kind of at least the
values of building in
public and, you know,
sort of embodying what
it means to be in favor
of open source
development.
You know, that really
is the core of Gitcoin
is this idea of, like,
composability and
interoperability and
decentralization, you
know, and I think as
long as those are
guiding light, you
know, everything should
be okay.
But, you know, it
definitely is a bummer
when people are
disappointed and, you
know, it's, to me,
the silver lining is
that people care so
much that they take the
time to speak up and
to share their
thoughts and, you
know, to try to make
things different or
better.
So I'm hopeful that
that will continue to
be the case and we
can continue to all
kind of grow and
learn as a community
and get better as we
Definitely.
I agree with you
100%.
Just wondering, like,
even when you were
talking about, you
know, having these
honest opinions, did
you ever feel like
you were looked upon
as an aggressor in
any conversation?
Like, if you stood
your ground and told,
like, no, I'm not
in tandem with the
kind of decision or
the kind of messaging
that we have done,
does it come out as
an aggressive response
if you take your
stand or is it, like,
widely accepted?
What do you see?
Good question.
I mean, honestly, I'm
pretty careful about
the way that I have
tried to communicate
about this.
So, I mean, I don't
think anybody took my
comments as kind of
a, as an aggressor.
There definitely are
some people who just,
no matter what I said
when we talked about
the Shell deal just
felt like it was a
bad deal and, you
know, that it was
definitely the wrong
thing for Gitcoin and
were frustrated with
me and others who
were involved.
And, you know, I can
totally appreciate that.
I, you know, and
honestly, there's
definitely been times
where organizations
that took money from
big corporations and
communicated in a way
that I didn't like
where I felt pretty
similarly, so I can
definitely relate to
You know, I, there
was actually one person
who commented who
was from an
organization called
the Nature Conservancy
and I, I laughed when
I read their comment
because they, they
sort of talked about,
you know, how they
could relate to the
experience we were
having and the
decisions we were
making.
And I remembered, you
know, years ago,
really having negative
opinions of the Nature
Conservancy because of
the money they were
taking from companies
like Shell.
You know, so I, I
definitely get that,
you know, that there
are totally legitimate
critiques of the
company and, you
know, I, I, as I
said in that Twitter
thread, like, I've
personally organized
rallies outside of
Shell facilities,
direct actions of,
you know, I've
organized outside of
their AGMs, you
know, and funny
enough, I've talked
openly about this
with, you know, some
of the folks from the
Shell team.
Like, I, I, I
definitely don't think
that in any way
Gitcoin should be
making any apologies
or sort of, you
know, helping to
change the brand or
the perception of
Shell.
You know, frankly, I
don't think that is
what happened.
If anything, it was
actually quite the
opposite.
I'd say there was
more people who
knew more about
what Shell had done
in the world because
of the past round
than, than the other
way around.
Perhaps not in the
way that, like, you
know, Shell PR people
would have loved, but,
you know, that being
said, I, I also think
we're kind of small
potatoes for, you
know, for that team.
You know, it's really a
subset of a subset of a
team that we're, that
we're dealing with at
Shell who's very
specifically working on
blockchain technology.
You know, so all that
being said, you know, I,
I think my interactions
on this were a bit of a
mixed bag.
You know, it was, I
would say, mostly well
received by the
community, the kind of
the thoughts that I
shared.
Maybe if I jumped into
the thread earlier as I
wanted to, it, you know,
may have been slightly
different.
But I also had lots and
lots of DM conversations,
as I'm sure everybody
involved did, with many
different people.
And I personally reached
out to a lot of the
folks who I knew who
were, you know, expressing
concern to, to offer to
talk about it.
And, you know, I, I
think the added
perspective and the
sincere dialogue was
appreciated in most
cases, but, you know,
there was definitely
some folks who just, no
matter what I said,
disagreed with the
decision.
And I, and I
definitely respect that.
Thank you for sharing
that, Ben.
Like, it's, it's
something that we as
grantees also, you
know, often respect the
fact that you actually
came out and spoke
about it.
It's not easy.
We understand that
completely, but then
the fact that you
actually took a stand
and you conveyed
whatever you felt was
the right thing to do
means a lot to the
rest of us.
Because at that time,
it's like you said,
it's, it's really hard
for us being in the
climate space and
having to deal with
these kinds of
drama and the way
Gitcoin handled it,
I think so it was the
right way considering
it happened mid round.
And I'm looking forward
to what more, you
know, you can do as
a community and as
a team.
I think these kinds
of learnings are
important to grow as
a team as well.
So much, much luck
to your community
and your team back
at Gitcoin.
Something that we
really love doing is
getting these kinds of
real-time feedback and
the fact that, you
know, when one of us
DM, one of you
always responds and
gives us the kind of
response that we
really want to hear
from your side.
So that's been really
helpful and we are
really grateful for
that support.
Really glad to hear
that.
Thank you for
sharing that.
Yeah.
So before I move on
to my next questions,
I just want to give
the audience a chance
to maybe come up on
stage and if you have
any questions for Ben
or the rest of us,
please feel free to
send it a question and
we'll bring you up on
stage.
In the meantime,
Ritu or Guido, if you
do want to shoot one of
your personal questions
to Ben, we have him
here for the next 20,
30 odd minutes.
But yeah, feel free to
unmute yourself and go
for it.
I'll just give you like
30, maybe 10 seconds
to respond.
If not, we'll continue.
All right, then
everyone's silent.
So I'm assuming no one's
rocked and everyone's
listening to what I just
said.
So anyway, yeah.
Great.
Ben, these last two
questions that I have
for you, it's more of a
personal question.
Just before I get into
it, I can see Jerry has
raised his hand.
I'm just going to add
him as a speaker so that
if he has a question,
he can just come up and
shoot it.
Jerry, I'm just
accepting.
Yeah, you can go ahead,
Jerry.
Got in just in time.
How's everybody?
Thanks for having me up
and thanks for holding
the space and thanks for
being here, Ben.
I do have a question for
you, if you can help me
out.
Yes, sir.
It is regarding, you know,
the new climate program and
the new way the round is
going to work.
I mean, it's coming up on
us really, really fast.
We just found out.
So John had said
previously that there's
not really going to be,
we're not going to see so
much of a difference in the
way anything operates.
It's kind of the same people
running everything, the same
things going on.
But how did all this come
about?
I missed out on it in the
government forums because
I'm, I'm busy and I'm sorry
I've not been on that.
I'll be better.
I'll get better.
You're not just reading all
of our super long governance
posts, Jerry.
I, you know, what, what, what
more important things are out
there?
Come on.
I try.
I really do try.
I, no, I totally understand.
And honestly, I sometimes
struggle to stay on top of all
of our governance posts and I
work at Gitcoin.
So I totally get it.
Yeah.
So how did it come about?
I mean, it's basically part of
the process of progressive
decentralization as a walkie
calls it, that's happening at
Gitcoin.
You may have noticed that
Gitcoin grant stack,
Passport, you know, various
different sort of subsets of
Gitcoin, you know, our
different work streams are
increasingly using their own
separate branding, their own
different Twitter accounts.
Honestly, it can make it a
little bit hard to keep on top
of like which accounts are
actually legit and which ones
aren't.
So please do be careful out
there.
There are a lot of imitation
accounts that are sending out
scams of various kinds.
You know, if anything smells a
little off to you, like you see
like an airdrop post or, you
know, something asking you to
connect your wallet, like, you
know, please don't hesitate to
like reach out to any of us at
Gitcoin.
We'll never try to FOMO you into
anything.
Like, you know, I think FOMO is
the as the enemy of security,
you know, and especially with
our account having been hacked
recently, like, you know, just
like, please don't please don't
let your desire to like, you
know, be part of whatever's going
on at Gitcoin get in the way of,
you know, just being careful and
safe.
You know, we're trying to do
everything we can as a sort of
safety and security team within
Gitcoin to keep everybody safe.
I know this wasn't your primary
question, but it's something I'm
kind of obsessed with recently, so
I can't help myself.
But to answer your question a
little bit more about how this
came about, you know, it's been
a long time coming.
I actually thought that the
climate team would be a really
good example of a team that
could kind of graduate out of
being sort of run directly by
Gitcoin to being independent.
You know, it does have funding
thanks to Momus and and now the
Shell funding, as well as some
other past and potential future
funders, you know, so that there
are funds that are available to be
distributed.
And like we've been having
meetings every week now for
literally for two years, you know,
as of now, basically, which is,
you know, a lot more than I could
say about, you know, many of our
rounds, honestly.
So basically, this was just like a
way that the team could have a
little bit more independence.
And, you know, overall, Gitcoin
could scale up its, you know,
potential for impact.
You know, the the idea is that as
we decentralize Gitcoin grant
stack and, you know, these tools
are more widely available, that
there's teams of people who, you
know, can just take these tools and
run grants rounds.
You know, the same sort of thing
happened with our DSI round, which
I believe there's going to be another
one of coming up in GG19, if I'm
not mistaken.
And, you know, I think you're going
to see more and more examples of
this as more community rounds come
on board.
You know, so I mean, one of the
things that makes this a little bit
different is that, you know, John
and I are both very involved in the
climate team and obviously both
work at Gitcoin, but we're also not
the only people who are involved in
that team.
And there'll actually be a thread
coming from the Climate
Coordination Network soon, talking
about how we're going to create an
advisory body and invite people
representing different blockchain
enabled use cases and
different geographic areas to play
more of a direct role in helping to
shape what the climate
rounds look like in the future, as
well as the other activities that
that team is going to take on
between grants program rounds.
So, yeah, I mean, that's basically a
quick summary of kind of how we got
from here to there.
In terms of what your experience will
be like as a grantee, honestly,
really shouldn't be much different.
You know, I mean, there'll be an
application link.
It'll be on a landing page.
You'll go to the link, you'll fill it
out, you know, and you'll apply to
the round just like in any other
previous round, still be basically
the same team of people that's doing
eligibility decisions and helping
with support.
You know, really, the main difference
is it's just like further
removed from Gitcoin and the time that
John and I are putting in will be
time we're putting in as community
members as opposed to as our
paid job.
You know, so I think we're going to
see, you know, kind of perhaps a
slight shift in like how much time
John and I have to put into things,
but probably not a dramatic one.
Truth be told, we're already putting
in more hours than we're getting paid
for anyway.
You know, so I think, you know, we'll
probably just continue to do that.
And, you know, I'm sure we'll also see
the program continue to grow and evolve.
Like I think we'll, you know, bring in
more people to help shape the future
of the program as well as these other
activities, like, for example, that
event that I mentioned potentially
happening early next year.
You know, so I'm really excited about
where this is going to go.
And, you know, I think this really is
the route to maximizing the potential
impact of Gitcoin.
So I'm quite excited that the climate
team is one of the teams really leading
the way in that way.
And frankly, that's often been the case.
Like we've tested out a lot of the sort
of new features, new ideas, new
approaches in the climate team.
And then those made their way into the
way that we were running other rounds.
You don't always see all of that.
A lot of it's been behind the scenes.
But the climate team has always been a
bit of a, you know, sort of out in front
kind of experiment, you know, and it's
been a just because of how active the
community has been has been a great
place to sort of test out new ideas and
new things that we're doing at Gitcoin.
Yeah.
As long as this community continues to be
as awesome as it is, and I see no
indication of anything other than that
continuing to be the case and
increasingly being the case, I think
the future is really bright for what we
can do with that team.
And I'm very thankful that Gitcoin is
continuing to support that team in a
variety of ways.
So, I mean, it's, you know, not a
not a 100 percent sort of separation
right from day one.
It's kind of a gradual process that's
been ongoing for a while, I would say.
But, you know, this is kind of a big
step that we're taking in terms of the
branding and the, you know, how things
are communicated about the round and how
that's all represented on the platform.
Thank you for that elaborate answer, Ben.
I hope, Jerry, you got the answers that
you were looking for.
Absolutely.
Ben's great this way.
He always gives you all the information.
Just a heads up.
Like, I had the same question lined up
next for Ben, but then I'm glad that
you asked the question so that, you
know, he did respond the way that I
would have loved him to respond.
Thank you so much for that answer, Ben.
So I'm expecting that the round is
still going to be an optimism.
Is that right?
Or are you looking to?
Yes, the plan for the climate round is
that the round will be on optimism.
For the other core rounds, there is talk
of all of the other, what we're now
calling the program rounds, being on
public goods network.
So that would be the Web3 community
round, the open source software round,
and the core ETH infrastructure round.
You can find that in one of those three
gov posts I mentioned.
If I can get my mind to do more than
one thing at once, I might be able to
actually share that in the thread during
our conversation.
If not, I'll put it in the thread after
our call.
But yeah, the climate round will be on
optimism again.
The only obstacle or sort of challenge
you might have is that we'll add an
additional wallet transaction for
payouts, you know, if you're trying to
donate to people in more than one round.
You might remember that we ran the core
ETH infrastructure round on PGN.
So if you had to, if you wanted to
donate to people in the core ETH
infrastructure round, as well as other
rounds, they would all appear in the
in your cart at the same time.
But basically you'd have to sign two
separate transactions and switch
networks.
So I'm curious what people think about
that.
I actually haven't been on a space with
all of you talking about that.
So yeah, let me know what you think.
I'm guessing we'll have with the other
community rounds, which I think we're
going to have a lot of them, probably 10
or more, you know, that many of them
will also be on optimism.
So there'll still be the ability to do
check out across multiple rounds, but
maybe not for the community round and
the open source software round.
So yeah, maybe I'll put a question back
to you or to anybody else who's here,
you know, and feel free to reach out to
me directly, too, if you don't feel like
coming on stage or talking about it or,
you know, put it in the in the chat
thread as well, if you'd like.
I feel like, I mean, it's a growing
period even for Gitcoin, like just the
fact that you guys pulled off a really
good, really smooth GG18 with, you know,
this kind of cross contribution was
happening, like we didn't have to
struggle adding different projects from
different rounds into the cart and
donating, but we feel like, you know,
it's always important to understand that
even the team at Gitcoin is just
learning as each day goes by and you're
trying what works best for each
community.
So we believe that you guys are doing
the right thing.
So kudos to your team again.
Like, I really love the experience that
you bring about as a team for each
Gitcoin round and I'm looking forward to
this as well.
But yeah, if anyone else has anything
else to add to that, please feel free to
unmute yourself and add.
Go ahead, Guido.
Yeah, I just had a question about the
new round and shell funding.
How does it work?
We will have, again, shell funding and the
possibility to opt in or opt out or there
is something different brewing?
Yeah, it'll be very much the same as the
last round in terms of the opt in, opt
out and the KYC requirements.
The only major difference is that instead
of the responses to the opting in and out
being encrypted in private, which honestly
wasn't something that we put a ton of
thought into before implementing.
And I wish retroactively that we hadn't
done that because there were a lot of
people who said, you know, why were we
hiding people's decisions about opting
into the shell funding?
It definitely wasn't a conspiracy to keep
that all private.
You know, all the results were shared publicly
at the end of the round.
So given that, you know, we're everything
we're doing is on chain and, you know, as
transparent as possible, you know, basically
we're just changing that in terms of the
settings when we set up the application this
time around.
But yeah, there will be funding available from
shell again, as well as core based funding.
So, you know, people have the option to either
accept that funding or not.
And the payouts will, again, be done through a
multi-sig instead of directly through the
contract, given the way that everything's being
structured.
And by the way, we're still waiting on a number
of folks to do their KYC.
I think we're actually going to, you know, my
apologies to anybody who's still waiting on that
shell funding.
We were trying to get everybody's KYC done
before the funds went out the door.
I think we're actually going to send the funds
to those who have done KYC like today, just
simply because waiting for everybody to get it
done seems to be slowing down the whole process
for everybody.
So, yeah, long story short is it will be done
the same way.
My goal for this round and hold me to it after
the round is that we can actually pay out all
of the matching funds before the month of December
is over, like, you know, for those who celebrate
Christmas in time for Christmas, for those who
celebrate the new year in time for the end of the
new year.
But that's always one thing that's really frustrated
me about our process is that it just takes forever
for us to actually get the matching funds to people.
And in particular, when we're saying, what have you
done with the funds since the last round, it really
doesn't make sense when we paid out the funds like,
you know, weeks before the applications open.
Like, I actually believe we're going to have
applications open next week.
We haven't announced that yet, but we're going to
give folks a little bit more time to apply.
So given the round is November 15th, you know, you
may be able to actually put in your application for a
bunch of the rounds, at least the program rounds and
the climate round and probably at least some of the other
community rounds as early as Wednesday of next week.
So a little bit more alpha for everybody on the call.
Yeah.
So to answer your question, yes, it'll be very similar
to last round.
I tend to take up more oxygen than necessary to answer
a question.
I could have just said yes, and that probably would
have been good enough.
No, no, no.
We love this elaborate answer, Ben.
We wouldn't get like so much alpha out of you if you
didn't take up so much oxygen.
So feel free to use all the oxygen you need.
We appreciate it.
Sure.
But yeah, coming back to what I wanted to ask you on a
personal level, I don't think not many people ask you
in this such spaces, but what's next for you personally?
What is it that you haven't explored in Web3 and would
love to look into if you had the time?
Let's speak hypothetically because I know, like you said,
you overwork yourself too much.
Everyone at Gitcoin does.
But if you did have the time, what would you think you
would love to explore?
That's a great question.
Thanks for asking it.
I mean, I guess I'm doing a fair amount of it, although you
hear less about it from me.
But I did talk about it a bit earlier.
You know, this research and work that I've been doing, you
know, with some support from the Ethereum Foundation and working
with my friend Tara, you know, we're getting closer to the place
where we're going to be able to share that publicly.
You know, we actually did about 100 interviews in 2022 with different
project leads and community members and academics and critics and all kinds
of different folks trying to look at blockchain-enabled use cases.
You know, clearly I've spent most of my life working on climate at this
point, you know, and I really want to be more helpful to projects in
between grants program rounds.
You know, so really getting into the weeds of, like, where are the
obstacles, where are the opportunities to, you know, sort of speed run some of
those obstacles, what, you know, collaborations or, you know, sharing of
code or, you know, campaigning on policy, you know, and regulation, you know,
like, basically how could we speed things up?
You know, one little example, I see Seven Energy in the crowd, you know,
from Austria.
They're one of the projects that, you know, we've been talking to who has
some interesting work that they're doing that if we had similar policies in
place in other places in the world, could potentially be doing similar work
around, you know, decentralized energy grids or community energy deployment
so, yeah, if you haven't checked out Seven Energy, a little shout out to Seven
Energy in the crowd there, and I see at least a few other people who I've, you
know, had talks with over the last couple of years about this research, but, you
know, I guess I would love to see the Climate Coordination Network, you know,
continuing to sort of expand its ambition beyond just sort of the running of the
climate round, but also, like, helping to support and accelerate, you know, the work
that all these folks are doing, and just for the sake of throwing out something
completely unexpected, perhaps, or a little out of left field for me, I'm really
excited about Web3 social and decentralized social media.
You know, I find, you know, the concentration of ownership of things like, you
know, Twitter, I refuse to call it X, to just be problematic in a lot of different
ways, and I've actually been hanging out a fair amount in the world of Mastodon and
the Fediverse, as well as spending some time on Farcaster and Leinster.
I would love to see the interoperability of all of these different platforms
continue to be a thing.
I've actually just recently gotten involved in a self-governing Mastodon community,
which I find to just be, like, a totally fascinating experiment in kind of
cooperative organizing when looking at sort of how that plays out for a social media
space, and I would just love to see, you know, more of that happening.
So, I mean, I think that's something I personally would love to kind of put a little bit more
of my time and energy into.
You know, I also think, like, tools like Discord that many of us are using are, you
know, suboptimal for the work that we're doing and create some attack vectors that are
really problematic in terms of security.
We actually realized that it was our Discord being compromised, which led to our Twitter
account being compromised, you know, and I would just love to see those kinds of tools
built in ways that, you know, really use what we have available within Web3 in more
effective ways and really build off the culture of decentralization in more effective ways.
Like, you know, to me, Web3 is not just a set of technology, but is also a social movement
based around ideas of decentralization.
And, you know, I would love to see that, you know, continue to evolve and play out in
how we do governance and the tools that we use really, you know, being useful to enable
a more effective governance and, you know, our kind of fundamental organizing.
Like, you know, Twitter really is the heart and soul of the crypto community these days.
You know, it used to be Reddit.
Reddit, and honestly, I think we've almost taken a step backwards going from Reddit to
Twitter, because at least in Reddit, you had these servers that were governed by, you know,
communities of people, you know, for better or for worse.
At least it wasn't all being done, you know, by one billionaire, basically, and his whims and
vibes that particular day.
You know, so anyway, that's some things I would love to be involved in one way or another.
And, you know, I think for me, it's really like, about not zeroing in on any one particular
thing, but like trying to be useful to as many projects and as many different initiatives
as I can.
And I'm hopeful that I'll continue to do that from a place of, you know, playing a role
at Gitcoin kind of indefinitely.
I find Gitcoin to be just a really beautiful, fertile ground for doing important work.
So, you know, as long as the Gitcoin community is interested in me being around, I probably will
continue to be around, but I will probably also continue to, like, try to do more useful
things for, you know, various different things that I think are important to kind of, you know,
from that space and kind of between Gitcoin rounds.
Thank you so much for sharing that with us, Ben.
Like, it's something that we all resonate equally with.
Decentralized social media platform would be the dream.
And, you know, like you mentioned, Mastodon and Leinster are a few of the ones that are
starting off giving us that kind of an experience.
And I feel we'll get to see more of these in the coming future.
Hopefully, you know, more accessible to the rest of us.
And, you know, it won't be just like waitlist and those kind of things.
But yeah, thank you so much for sharing that personal thought that you have.
Ben, like, my final question is, you know, we consider you a true changemaker and someone
who we look up to.
What is a message that you would leave for, you know, your fellow changemakers who's
making some kind of noise in the space?
First of all, thank you for the kind words.
I appreciate that.
And it means a lot.
You know, I the answer I always give is touch grass, drink water.
You know, I say it sort of with a smile on my face and kind of a cheeky way because it's
almost become a meme at this point.
But, you know, I do feel like, you know, just having gone through the cycles of burnout so
many times in my own life as an activist, you know, I do worry when I see others heading
in the same sort of direction, you know, so like, please do take care of yourself, you
know, in this work, especially as we go into these grants program rounds.
I know that it can feel like, you know, a sprint, but it really is a marathon, you
know, and, you know, the more that you can surround yourself with, like, people that
you love and, like, you know, have a little bit of a stressometer, like when you feel
yourself getting to capacity, like stepping away and being able to trust that you can
step away and everything's going to be okay, I think is super important.
You know, I feel like sometimes the speed that Web3 moves, it almost doesn't feel safe
to take time away, you know, because you feel like you'll get left behind and the FOMO is
very real, you know, and I think the more that we can make each other all feel sort of
safe taking that time and knowing that, you know, everything's not going to be fundamentally
different when you come back to your project or we come back to your community, you know,
so maybe the more that we can do that for each other, I think the better.
Also, just know that, like, there's definitely nothing particularly special about me or anybody
else who makes change for the better, you know, like, we all have our strengths and weaknesses,
we all have our talents, it's really just a matter of, like, not giving up, you know,
probably just being stubborn is one of the better assets that I've got, like, I, I just
have, like, refused to kind of step away from the stuff that I was working on, even when
it was hard and stressful, you know, and I think just, like, giving yourself that space
to, like, reflect on things and think, like, you know, looking back at this stressful moment
that I'm in right now, you know, is it going to seem like it was that significant in, like,
three months or six months or a year, you know, I think can be really healthy. You know,
often the things that seem like a big deal to you right now are not as big of a deal a
little down the road. And, like, you know, really honor the gifts that you bring to the
to the space that you're in, you know, and, and also, like, you know, be hungry for learning
and knowledge, like, you know, the more that we can be humble, you know, both as individuals,
but really as a species, like, what can we learn from the from the natural world? What
can we learn from indigenous cultures who, you know, have, you know, been evolving ideas
and approaches to whether it be governance or, or sort of living in balance with the world?
You know, I think that we all could deal with the with a little bit of humbleness collectively,
but also, like, you know, at the individual level, all of us also really honoring our contribution,
you know, I feel like, you know, even if you feel like what you're doing is is insignificant
or small, it probably is much more important to others than than you might realize, you
know, so like, please, you know, know that your contributions are important, no matter what
you're doing. And also look for ways that you could double down on them, you know, like, if
if there's something that you love doing that you're passionate about, but maybe it's not
making a ton of money for you right now, like, you know, especially if you're younger,
and you don't have a mortgage to pay or kids that you need to feed, like, take some risks,
you know, to give away more of your time, a lot of the opportunities I got in life, were
the end result of volunteering. You know, and I am quite privileged, you know, living in,
you know, a part of the world where I can do that and have, you know, a family who could
support me. But, you know, I did spend many years of my life, living on very little income,
you know, couch surfing between people's homes, and, you know, and just trying things and
experimenting and like walking away from things that weren't working for me. You know, even
when it would have been in my financial interest to do something different. You know, and it
definitely has made my life more interesting and creative and rewarding. And honestly, maybe
that's just because I could not force myself to do stuff that I was really bored of or felt
like really didn't jive with my own personal values and sort of what I wanted to see in the
world. But, you know, I'd say like, you know, take risks, but also take care of yourself.
How's that for some contradictory messages and also be humble, but also be know your your value
and your significance. So, you know, it all is a balancing act, you know, and like, I guess just
try not to take it all too seriously if you can do. You know, the problems we're facing are,
are very, very real and scary and significant in the world can be a scary place. But,
you know, without laughter and community and, you know, that kind of camaraderie, you know,
it can just feel way too daunting to face the challenges. So, you know, if you can take a step
back and, you know, not take yourself and the projects we're working on, you know, too,
too seriously, I think that can be a very positive thing.
What a, what a, what a closing statement. I just, I was just so happy to listen to you say all of
that. It just completely, you know, the right kind of advice that you can give young changemakers in
the space. And I'm really glad that you take the time out to speak to us, Ben. It's, it's not often
that we have guests like you come here time and time out. Like every time we ask you, you, you,
I think so. You've never said no. And that, that's something that shows how humble you are as a person
and how grounded you are always. And it's, it's really encouraging for us to approach you and
it just makes our lives easier also. And I would just like to thank you for the hour that you spent
with us. I know the rest of us who couldn't join the space would love to hear this recording and
I'm for sure going to shell the space even more harder now so that the rest of them get to listen
to your wise words. But thank you again for joining in, Ben. I know you're a very busy man
and you took the time out even though it was early in the morning for you, but thank you so much for
that. Not that early for me. It's all good. And, you know, honestly, it really is a gift for me
too. I really get a lot out of, you know, these conversations with, with you and with the
community. So, you know, genuinely, I, I appreciate the invitations and the space that you're creating
for important conversation. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm getting older. I feel like I'm about a
million years old in, in crypto land where everybody tends to be younger than me. You know, so I am,
if, if anything that I have learned or the mistakes I've made are useful to people to,
you know, in, in their journey, I am more than happy to share them. You know, it really does
mean a lot to me, all the kind words that you share. So yeah, thanks again for, for making this
space available and, and for all the good intentions and good work that, you know, I see everybody on
this call. You know, I know all of you are making and, and, you know, to whoever, who else is, is
listening out there, you know, best of luck in the upcoming grants round. You know, I, I'm so excited
about, you know, this community that we're all a part of. So yeah, thanks for doing what you're doing.
Thank you so much for that, Ben. Before I close out, I just want to give the audience one more
chance to come up on the stage. If you have anything to ask Ben, please do raise your hands
up and I'll, you know, add you as a speaker. You can ask the question. But yeah, nevertheless,
before I close out the space, I just want to again, thank Ben, who's our guest for tonight. And,
you know, he's answered some really important questions, given us lots of alpha to actually go
back to the drawing board and just re-evaluate how we want to go about the next Bitcoin round.
And really excited to see the kind of changes that the Climate Coordination Network is going
to bring about this round. And without, you know, wasting or taking away too much of anyone
else's time, I would like to just conclude the space. We join back again on the Atlantis Climate
Radio next Thursday, where we bring on changemakers in the space to have these kind of real in-depth
conversations about the work they do. And, you know, it's more like a lesson for the rest
of the community on getting inspiration from the right folks. And we are proud to have,
we are proud to be able to create this kind of a platform, you know, for the rest of the
younger projects to come up and share their minds and share about what they're doing.
So until next time, oh, wait, I just have, Sean, is that you asking for a, okay, Sean, go ahead.
Hey guys, thank you so much for hosting this space. Just wanted to say one last thing.
Hey Ben, I don't know if you remember, but like almost two years, it's been since we had our first
conversation, I think in January 2022 around. Lonnie had introduced me to you when working at
EcoDAO and, you know, just ever since that moment, you've been a constant inspiration for me. And
the words that we had in the short hour that we were able to speak, you know, have reverberated
through all the work that has, you know, kind of pushed me to the point I'm at now, I'm two years
later. So I just wanted to say thank you. And, you know, always constantly looking forward to
the work you're doing. And, you know, just thank you for being an inspiring region, honestly.
Thanks so much, Sean. I totally remember our conversation and that really means a lot.
I, yeah, I wish you all the best. And I'm glad I could have a positive impact in whatever way. And
please don't hesitate to reach out if you want to talk more. Always happy to hear about how things
are progressing and, you know, and try to be useful in whatever way I can.
Thank you so much.
No better way to close out the space. Thank you for adding that point, Sean.
Good night and good morning, folks. Have a great day.
Peace, y'all.
