Hey, hey, hey everybody. Thank you so much for coming in here. I am going to send you requests to become speakers. So do accept it if you feel like talking. If you don't, it's all good. I will talk to all of you and myself.
No, I'm joking just accepted if you want to come up dang sired
Alright, I'm sending it to you. If you don't feel like coming up, you can always let it be.
Hello, Karsh. How are you doing? I'm good. How's it going? Yeah, everything is good here. Everything is good? Yeah, I'm right now in Gujarat because I've come to get my passport renewed but yeah, I will be back in the next five, six days. Okay, okay.
So like you know about area like to operate a Rafa note like what is the criteria not actually looked into it fully but I do know of a bunch of content that you could go through I'm sure like I can
I can send you the exact article for this. Are you looking to do something on that front? Actually we can look like if there is like an criteria that we can fulfill and I'm happy to be a part of that. I don't think there is like any hard pressing criteria.
for that, I think you just, there is some amount of time and energy commitment and there is a structure where like you know, I think the main ReFide-Out provides some support for your
fundraising and structuring and organizing and stuff like that. And then you as a local node can do all the fundraising and then you know you decide which projects you want to fund to regenerate and you get the people going behind it.
And I think if I'm not mistaken, like 10% of whatever you fundraise is given to the main ReFi Dow and in exchange you get ReFi token. This is more or less my understanding.
understanding you don't please don't quote me on this because I've just been reading on and off and whatever has been coming to and what has registered is this but I'm sure there is a lot more to this in terms of the specifics but
I think on a very high level this is what it is but which city are you in, sir, I'm forgetting. Delhi, you're Delhi. Delhi, right? And do you have people over there that would be interested in helping you set up a node?
No, actually not really like but like we like I'm also working for Shamba and Shamba is having a node in like Nairobi refine Nairobi node So like my friend Ashish is also there in the call so we are basically discussing like how we can operate a node in Delhi and what are the activities that we need to do
So when Shambha is doing RIFI Nairobi, do you know what it is supposed to be doing? No, I haven't basically. I haven't. I haven't.
regarding that but I will definitely ask in the next call. Because I think I'm also under the impression that maybe all the nodes are going to be quite different in the way they are going to operate.
Okay, yeah, so what like what technical activities like that that particular node is supposed to perform I don't know if there is like a technical criteria I that's I think I'll need some more clarity on that
Let's just, I mean since we are on the top gate, let's just let me just plug it in and see what comes out because they had an interesting block that they had put up which is talking about this.
have you been following all the articles that they have been pushing out like a lot of interesting ones. Yeah, actually like not the articles though, but like I was
following with the tweets that Jay like used to basically do.
But I think it's essential that you know you have some sort of an ecosystem boy in the area like you have people who are interested in
the space and willing to like give in some time and effort because yeah it's going to take some amount of contribution.
Yeah, definitely like if it's worth the in terms of environmental benefits and also in terms of some monetary benefits then definitely like everyone will be interested. Yeah, I don't.
not going to assume that there are going to be clear cut monetary benefits. You might have to be the one that
like you know, base it up. Okay. Be the one that's, you know, figuring out the front days, they will obviously support you with the network and everything. Okay.
So like will that be an actual node like a like an actual like an actual blockchain node kind of thing which will be having all the operations and like approval of transactions and all
No, no, no, no, I don't think they're going to that extent. But yeah, I think I've found the article.
No, it's not going to be like an actual validator node. It's more a representation of that.
And are there any guys in India like who are having one? I think I saw somebody in Hyderabad start one up but I am really not plugged into it. So I would need to know more but yeah, so I have the page open.
I think if you are selected, they help you set it up. Local nodes will collectively raise funds and design their own token economy. Established governance will
Launch your token. Pass their first proposals with a specific mandate to use 50% of MoFUNs raised to acquire land and other rural assets.
common stack will support local nodes step of the way critical piece the network stack is very far down local node will take part of that
Yeah, so it's it's going to be like your own setup
and it comes under this umbrella and think what it says is 10% incubation fee of any funds raised by local node goes to refide out and 2% transaction fee for
every local node token minted and burned. Okay. Okay. So like how that token like is going to be like, so like I'm going to do if you end up opening a refined node in Delhi,
design how you want to raise funds and how you want to like fund investment projects and how you basically it's your your like baby to run, refide up, put you in all other activity. Okay so I
So, if you are going to have a lot of money, you need to make money.
to regenerate aqua land to regenerate land. Okay, so get to like we need to be in the region. Like all the environment related activities in there. Correct. Correct. And correct. So you can design it according to how it should be over there and yeah.
For their support, they will take 10% of whatever you fundraise.
Plus, I came from what I understand 2% of whatever you fundraise also because every time if a token is minted, they are taking 2% transaction fee then
Yeah, I think in that case, I think it should translate to likely 12%.
So here it is, you know what is needed, founders must make a 3 to 5 year commitment in their city. Startups community must be located in the Global South, demonstrate a clear and compelling vision for regenerating their city.
identify key local partners across public private and third sectors, demonstrate support by advisors across Web 3 climate and social justice, have a detailed budget for 24 months.
Yeah, that's okay. So like you are reading all this from a link. Yeah, so can you please put that link up? One second.
Can you just send me a high on this Twitter account? Okay. I'll just reply that. So what are you thinking as of now?
You have some time that you would commit to this or what's up?
Yeah, I still like we are planning to do that like if it's basically for the environmental and also for the sake of
We are not like climate, specifically improving climate.
But like I doubt that there are like a lot of activities related to environment, specifically in the metropolitan cities.
I think you want to thank you.
Yeah, yeah. Sure. I'm sorry.
And you're still check on.
Yeah, I've sent you a request, Ashish.
Yeah, I'm just like listening to your conversation. I'm just like also very curious like how to set up like the refi now, no, right? Like I'm yeah like one of the like key kind of like questions I would have like for sitting up like a down like in my local
community would be like, what are the key kind of budgets constraints for running like an hour? I'm not really sure if people would want to be paid in hourly wage, it probably would be like volunteering or something like that.
What I mean is the fans would probably be all like it. It's where it's like event organizing and those kind of things right or am I missing something like I would really appreciate you.
I was halfway through the conversation but yeah, thanks for pointing it out. No, what I was saying is it's going to be an independent node that you are like if you set up, where are you from, Pinsy? I'm currently like in Spain essentially. So we can not really
sure if I will be able to kind of set up but like I'm really curious yeah. Yeah I think they're trying to put some emphasis on global south right now but nonetheless it's you would be let's say if you do something say Refi Madrid right like if you do Refi Madrid then like you get
I think that would be impossible but I mean who can try? Why would that be impossible? I don't know it's probably just too difficult. No no it's cool. That's cool but I'm just saying just as an example like if you were to set something up like
They will provide support and structure in terms of how you can go about it and what you can do. But you would be designing the whole system. You would be deciding what you would want to fund and you would be doing the fundraising bit also.
We'll be doing all the hiring, partnering up with organizations. So basically it's like you running the whole show, but with support from ReFiDOW and intern, I think what they have said is that they will take 10% of how much of a you fund is.
So I think that's pretty much a structure.
So, it's interpreted as one. So basically, from all the conversation that I have listened to, basically I have come to the conclusion that we are the, we are like the separate entities throughout the world.
which we make the people aware about the FI and benefits including this and we directly basically belong to a community of FI which is the FI Dow if I'm not mistaken.
the world like the global south to increase the awareness of or apply among the peoples like the climate change and basically we will directly come under a community which is known as the right doubt.
Okay, so basically you're just going to be like doing awareness activities and not going to be like conducting business and raising funds and doing events and like in projects and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically, all that included. I'm into that.
through the through some activities we can only gain the interest of people in RFi or some other RFi projects. So basically I want to I want to convey that through the whole conversation you have told us that you will, uh,
by taking the 10% of funding and giving this whole program a name, a committee under which we can operate. Am I right? Yeah, that's what I have been made to understand. Okay, okay. And that's also mentioned in the article. So I don't know things that
changed but that's at least where it's at at the end. Okay. So if we built a node like say we've some mean as a built a node like the FIDally. So are we fully independent to open that node? Yeah. Okay.
Yeah, but how independent you are and like what the structure is, I've only they will be able to make it clearer to you. I cannot be the one like telling you the the specifics and the
Yeah, yeah, because I'm not from there and I'm not a spokesperson. So, but I think it's you are pretty much in that same ballpark, but I feel like you should just get further clarifications. You can all for any way just go up, hit up their discord and like ask over there. I think
that should, yeah should help. Yeah. What's up, Rishi? I mean the mood to jam or just hanging out? The Luna punk is just chilling.
So, Pinsave, bro, I was, I mean, now I think I've heard you a couple of times and I'm getting an understanding of what you're doing. Is there like a team in place or is it you who's trying to like push this?
It's mostly like me and my friend, like that we collaborated for about a year, year and a half. Yeah, and we met at essentially a
GitHub going on the GitHub platform, just submitting projects for GitHub going boundaries for other like Web 3 projects like Uniswap and yeah, like ceramic. Yeah.
Okay, so you were also, you were a contributor in DAWS before, is it?
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, like I've contributed to Gitcoin now. We made like a like I made like a popular post on the governance forum about statistics on previous Gitcoin rounds. Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like a lot now would need to be built right because of the new tech stack and the new product like all those old features we keep on missing. We were just having a conversation in the morning about how like right now there is no way for us to email our donors.
was also talking about like how maybe a page where we can see what projects our friends have contributed to. I think that would like make quite a big of a difference to like just have a brief overview
of whatever's like grabbing the attention of my friends and colleagues, I think that would help and improve discovery to a great extent because I think that's where there is a problem. I mean,
For us who have grants in the space, we kind of take the time and effort to go through everything. But I kind of doubt if everyone who's just coming and just trying to see what's up would actually take the trouble or
of reading like tens or 500 of grants in detail and then like deciding where to put the money. And I think it could be, it's a little sus but it's also easier for people to just see that okay these are my friends and these are the projects that they put money in.
And yeah, that can make life easier for people who are down to give but don't know who to give to. Well, I'm also kind of curious like has it affected like the ground contributors, the number of ground contributors you've got from like last round, which is this round because that's like.
Actually shows you right? I don't think it has that has made a difference because all of these features were not there during the Alpha round also and the Alpha round was on ETH so that also did not make much of
for difference at that time. Man, I'll be honest, I don't know if it was lesser projects or more hype but like solar punk dows grant went from I think 140, 150 unique contributors to 330.
And 140 was when there was polygon optimism, phantom or layer 2s everything available and this 330 was purely on it. So I am like hats off. Like I was we were stunned internal
and we were also quite pleasantly surprised of course but like getting 330, 350 unique contributors on ETH. I think it gives you some like not reform validation some confidence at least that okay.
There are people who are willing to support you no matter the times and no matter the trouble that they are going through and I think it acts as a major boost right? I mean, anyways, get coin is the fuel that keeps everyone going right now. But to see people really come out and like
Even this time, yeah, I mean gas is a problem but still we have gotten 30, 40, 20, 30 like people contributing to grants and yeah, I mean I've been very publicly stating that hats off to them.
It's not an easy decision to make. Let go $57 while making a dollar worth of contribution.
really appreciate that but I don't think Rishi to your point I don't think that's the reason I mean I don't think lack of features and lack of like
Display in terms of what other people are funding is worth stopping people this time.
So like right now I'm working on this project called Arura for the Cosmos Network and the idea is there is essentially I mean get get going to Cosmos but what we are doing different is creating
I mean, it needs a social media around it, right? Like we are using GetCoin doesn't work by itself. Like it does not have the communication systems to work by itself. It needs Twitter and then it becomes like a Twitter market.
marketing game and that's the reason for ReFi, Dow, and a lot of these larger Dow's we take over and channel marketing like that. And so what we would
want is social media where projects can come together, come up with a banner, because it should not be about the logos, it should be about discussing about the projects, it should be about discussing how the projects are working together and
and also projects should be able to fund each other and see that transparently. So yeah, I'm very curious and I'm like really getting into the weeds and get going. I think Rishi, so a bunch of what you just spoke about
It might be a little biased here but I think the combination of lengths plus the point on polygon is in and today's time like capable of doing over 18-90% of what we just spoke of.
Yes, we have get coin on polygon where it doesn't need to change anything and I think they might just do it next time As soon as you have that and you have lens also existing over there It's I mean I had done like some research on lens a few months back
Because I thought it was a good idea to create like a social media platform on lens just dedicated towards like regions and solar pungent regions where we can like continue to jam on what needs to happen what should happen what's working what's not working and
also create like these micro tips for people doing regenerative activities on a daily basis. Stuff like that, like lens lets you do a lot and it's as easy over there that you because every post you create is an NFT and if you create
a post where you're talking about it as a grant, then people can simply just transfer like die USDC or e-thomatic or whatever to that NFT. So every post is in a position to do fundraise.
Yeah. Right. And like in that case, like even if there's a good conversation and if it's added value to it, you can just give it like five cents. And if it's a grant and we're trying to fund raise for an on-ground project,
somewhere in Uganda or Nigeria or in Brazil or in India, wherever, anywhere, right? Like you can just put up that post and you can like get tagger friends and then there are also mechanisms where
the post, whoever is putting up the post can also incentivize a certain set of people to retweet or repost that and earn for that. So it can tell, I can create one and I can say, okay, minimum contribution stands in and I will tell
that if you are reposting it, you will get 4 cents. On every 10 cents I get because of your repost. So there are a lot of interesting mechanisms that open up because it's internet native money and it's internet native posting and it's all heavily
centralized and you can just plug and play and build things on top like a lot of possibilities open up and I feel the cross pollination between lens and get coin is quite deadly because like you said right we are doing all this coordinates
on Twitter and then we are taking the action on getcoin. There like we would be in a position to just simultaneously like do this where I would have my getcoin grand put up as a post and whenever I am shilling my post
Like I don't need people to click on the link and then go to the link and add it to the cart and then make the contribution. There is a good chance that like you can just say okay hit one dollar over there. The transaction pops up right then and there on the post and then you've given a dollar and
you moved on and just imagine the conversion that we would have if it was that easy that accessible and there is like negligible fees on polygon and cello and stuff like negligible we would not even consider it. So
I could also at some point create a bot over there and say that whoever is saying getcoin beta and has a grant up like don't think I'll just give a dollar to all of them. Just make sure you're not repeating but whoever is putting a post you can also say oh which
Whatever gitcoin beta post gets over 15 likes, give a dollar or gets over 50 likes, give a dollar. So I think like being able to program all of this really opens up and yeah I feel like that intersection is something that has not been explored yet.
I've been renting. So I feel like I am having you over for the first time. So please, please, please give us the lowdown on lunar punk labs. And I think you have another project up this time.
Yeah, just the bundle. Yeah. All right. All right. So just give us like run us through what you have been doing, what labs is all about and what you intend to do going further. Yeah. So well, the idea with labs is essentially to
have people on the ground come up with their own sort of health metrics and be able to put that into like dynamic impact certificates. And so we're using this DSI methodology called active inference, which I can give a simple explanation of
the active inference that I guess people can learn something as well. And consider I'm telling you with Jook, okay, if it's a good joke, it creates a surprise. And when surprise is created, free energy is created in your body and you'll laugh it out.
So similarly, when we create models about the environment and the world that we live in and we hear of some news that completely breaks our model, right? This creates free energy, this creates agitation within us and usually like, you know,
new organizations or marketing and advertising, if they create free energy within you, they tell you to buy stuff. And then that's where your energy goes. Active inference is a principle that essentially allows you to take this and computerize
So if you you are someone who's on the ground who's measuring ecosystem health and you've created a model, a transparent model that everyone within your community can look at and understand what your values are and how you would like the environment to be. But if something surprising to you,
comes up, you have two choices, either take an action on the environment to make it conform to your model or you change your model. And what this allows you to do is create like impacts certificates that are not like static, but adapt to
the time and place that you're in and your values as well. And you also get the ability to like if it's a graph based active inference methodology, you can take let's say two states in India have very similar models. You can combine that to create like
a larger impact certificate and if someone wants to fund money now they can send it directly to that larger impact investment thing where it's always adapted to the environment by the people on the ground. So you actually get good health
as opposed to saying let's say just put money into carbon. If you just say let's put money into carbon the problem becomes like someone buys an acre of land completely destroys all the biodiversity there and plants like a cancerous tree that just grows there like really fast and like
is a lot of carbon, right? We don't want that. We really should not incentivize actions like that. So it has to be the people on the ground who decide what health looks like for them and that will create a much like really rich like investment asset as well. And so I like to think of it as like
Like, if, why do people want to create investment assets? Right? Like, a lot of us are doing this because we want to create good for the world. But we are also understanding that we need to create investment vehicles for people with money to essentially put it in there and have it stable or at least have it grow in like steady rate.
Now, when you impact invest in like NFTs, buying like Logan Paul bought a NFT for like a million dollars or something and now it's worth like $50. What they've not really understood about the art world is that you're not just funding the art
work or you're not just buying the artwork, you will also need to fund like the rest of the ecosystem in the art world, your museum galleries, your art curators, your researchers, publications, all of these people have to be funded so that you can maintain the illusion or that this art is a good piece
of work. And if that is maintained, yes, you've got a very strong investment asset. But yeah, people invest in NFTs without thinking about that. So what we want to do with impact certificates as well is create it so that it's an impact certificate that changes with time and is always relevant.
and the illusion or let's say the magic is maintained right like the magic of that local ecosystem is maintained and you can't ever have the impact certificate kind of like uh cut away at stuff that it can't measure and then like you know it collapses what is actually being measured if you've
I'll say for an example, when I studied Hindi as a student in my CBS school, you know, that's a whole language that I studied for eight years and we had like exams and everything and I used to get like, you know, good marks and the exams and everything, but I come out of school and I don't know Hindi.
Because I've just been like figuring out patterns to A's the exams as opposed to actually learning the language. And so I was like, you know, memorized like long essays in Hindi by converting it to songs or like my own regional language out actually it making sense. And so
What ends up happening is you haven't really done the work. You've only just tried to ace the measure. And so when the measure becomes a target, it's no longer a good measure. When the exam marks become a target, no longer is a good measure. So you want measures which are much more
and which changes to the context of a person or to the local context and that will create anti fragile measurement systems which will stay on for much longer and create much better investment assets that you know don't one day everyone be like hey carbon is a terrible idea we should not do carbon and now
Everyone who is invested money to carbon loses all their money right so similarly I feel like with cash you're also doing something very similar you're creating solar punk values as the way to Invest into assets and we all believe that solar punk is a very strong movement and everyone who can get behind it 100% will be happy to
invest in like earth coin right so yeah that's how I think about these things. So boy we want to solo conquer if I'm understanding this correct let's say you're doing active influencing two gauge
whatever xyz impact that any specific project creates. But the way to quantify that impact would be dynamic and in a state of flux over time.
And you would also be able to change the impact quantification if the goal post changes in the future, then also retroactively switch how much impact you have quantified. Would that mean something that is possible with this?
Yes, but changing the goal post is a dangerous thing, right? You can't have people just change the goal post to fix the, I shouldn't happen, right? So, no, I mean changing the goal post is like being dynamic, right? In some ways, today we are geared towards carbon, tomorrow we are geared towards
soil then we are geared towards like okay seeing okay the water systems also need to be cleaned then we are geared towards more employment then after that maybe we get robots and we say that okay now where was working here we want to like maximize well-being of those people so in that sense like
you might have more and more things but let's say that at some point go from carbon to soil to 4 to well-being and today we are now trying to maximize well-being then that is the end objective like
would you be able to take past data and then also be able to create some metric on how much historical well-being has been created in their project? Yes, it works like that. So it would work like take your DMRB values put that on like a tiny
series. And so you've got an understanding of like say DMRV can be done by sensors can be done by human reporting and all of that. And we're assuming it's coming as quantified values right quantified values with an on-relead to each other. What we want to create is an impact certificate or a brain idea
that is able to take in all of these sensor data and all of these values and say that yes, this model that I have made of how this local ground has to be regenerated is actually happening or not happening, right? It is either increasing or decreasing and that is why
single output that is coming from like that's what we call free energy and I think digital Gaia has come up with this nice term called ferns for that if ERNS free energy I forget ratio or something like that and so if ferns go up that's a good
thing that like you know our systems actually are regenerating if it's going down, it means it's not. So historically this, if you've got your DMRB data stored somewhere, you can definitely look back with newer models to see how it was conforming with the past models. So yeah, 100% it's possible.
And this is the product that Luna Pong Labs is working on right now. Yes, so currently like right now we are we this is not going to happen just you know we make the impact certificates and it's all done right we need the entire ecosystem for it to
work as well. So we're building social media tools for this. We're building a halonic social media with vco.io so we're changing up the UX there. We ideally want to bridge this. We're thinking cosmos at this point because I think region network is also one cosmos so region
network is very strong at this and region network really sees a value of active inference as well. So yeah, we are kind of looking at building with region network and also digital Gaia is a project who is really working on the same kind of thinking that I'm saying. So yeah, we would definitely need to collaborate and I definitely see the ecosystem happening.
So yeah, we're also bootstrapping ourselves doing work for other projects and happy to help other people out with marketing and you know, whatever ability we have as well. So yeah, those are the two tracks we're thinking primarily. Yes, it's the active inference modeling and we're calling it
conversation graphs. So we would like to go to people on the ground, have conversations with them like we sent like really empathetic people to the ground and understand what the local values are from like village elders and people who know how the ecosystem should be having lived there, having been
and we also want to put this behind a zero knowledge proof thing because we don't want big refi to come in and scrape up all of this knowledge that people have on the ground which is a lot of times what happens like Big Pharma and all aspirin was discovered by going into South America
understanding what people do for their health metrics. They understood it's a bark that helps people with their heart problems. Take the bark, extract the active ingredient, patent it, put it in a molecule and then big farmer gets rich and the other people get nothing. So we want to be able to use that zero knowledge proofs to
close up the wisdom that they have passed the DMRB through the zero knowledge layer and that will give you whether it's actually helping with it or not without you having to like see the model. But the idea is that the models have to be transparent for the people on the ground who are working there.
but not for the outside world.
Yeah, this is going to be quite an intricate journey that like the last days I feel like because yeah, I now I'm able to make sense of the product but like you said
There are a bunch of other things that would need to fall into place and then plug into what you are building so that the end result of what you want can be effective.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go on. I mean, a lot of collaborative potential between solar punk down and lunar punk as well. Because you guys are also understanding the real value is in like solar punk regeneration, right? So solar punk values if they can
can be kind of like codified as well and you can evaluate your DMRV with the solar punk values that people can vote on the DAO and like decide, hey, you know, we actually should be looking more about well being this time less so carbon and stuff like that. And you've got like a transparent constitution of a graph.
of like a constitution in the legal sense, right? Like you can say, okay, so this is our values and these are the rules that we operate by. So it's transparent, so nobody feels like, hey, it's unfair, right? That why the measurement is happening? So that would create constant like intelligence innovation as well, where, you know, people can see what
the intelligence is of the network. So yeah, lots of, lots of synergy here. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, you know, to be honest, I feel like, I mean, just some context for everyone else here, like, for it to be more easily understood, like we're internally turned it like
ecological positive externalities, but they are solar-punk values. But as of now, as a collective, we do not have a very accurate understanding of what we denote or what I'm connoting when I say solar-punk values. And if we look at a
lot more communication needs to happen on that front to make it as clear that okay when we say sort of on values this is all that we mean but coming back to what you're saying I think man you know to be honest I've what I've upon till now not really
at my brain run on how to be able to measure and quantify all the solar pump values because it's a beast in itself and it needs a lot of big brain people sitting in one room to be able to figure out that like okay what are the quantifying metrics for some
There are ways to quantify well-being, there are ways to quantify soil health, there are ways to say we are creating a more equitable society. I think there is always going to be wealth gaps but I think the idea would be that
we have like a floor and a ceiling, you know, so that maybe the rich are not insanely rich and the poor are not like ludicrous lipos. So I think it's all about that right and I think each of these values. So just to give some context like I think for us,
Well, values are clean and atleast water, nutrient density of food, healthy soil, sequestering carbon, building the solar punk paradigm, like increasing well-being, ensuring that there is lesser inequality, ensuring that means of production and collect
collectively owned also trying to say that the core needs of humanity are met collectively. So taking shared responsibility of places so on and so forth and being able to value and measure each has its own stack that would need to be built out.
I feel like there would be a common stack which can then be plugged in to cater to the variability of that specific value. So yeah, I feel, I mean from whatever I have been now understanding what you're doing, I do feel that like we should be able to plug into the product
product, but just like, like, we might need to build something more on top so that it's just a little more suitable. But yeah, I think I can see that. Yeah, yeah. So I'll tell you our journey as well how we arrive at all of this, right? So like, well,
You were focused on the machine. Before you do that, I would also like you to put up the tweet of your grant on the Jumbo Tron so that all of us have reference. Pinsive, I think I see the tweet for your space, but if you have a grant tweet
up please also put that fighters gang you also put it I work up please put your tweet also which is talking about the grant that you have upon the train thank you go on Rishi so yeah I was just gonna say like you were saying your story like where you kind of stopped yourself from thinking from the whole I like
to call it the measurement problem. The measurement problem is when the measure becomes a target it seems to be a good measure and in economic terms it's something like when a measure is a statistical, when a statistical measure is placed as pressure
a system, it collapses what is actually being measured for the sake of the measurement. So the Lunar Punk Labs people have been kind of like sitting around talking about this measurement problem and like trying to figure out how to actually solve that as opposed to like really thinking like how to like create projects on the world that would actually
actually use this right. So in that sense, I'm just so fucking happy that like the entire ecosystem is coming together, but we've solved, you know, like smaller, smaller parts and we can all come together and like build for each other without having to, you know, having to come up with one single logo or like one single Apple Apple ecosystem
everything to work. Like we're all building pieces and we're all coming together and one day we'll definitely be bigger than Apple without needing to have that one single brand. And like when you were saying I think so I mean honestly I feel we haven't discussed this amongst ourselves but I feel like everything has to be open source for all of these things to
work. So nothing stopping you guys from like taking and building it on your own, right? So I don't think solar punk Dow as I understand it wants to create a privacy friendly. So in that sense, you guys would also be like a really valuable, you know, pilot project for us when we can like, you know, operationalize our active inference
models system because yeah you guys are not doing privacy so it makes sense to like you know do it publicly so I think there's a valuable pilot project with you guys as well so yeah so you know it's a funny you brought that privacy bit up like just up the other day I was I was
kind of trying to extrapolate like the best case scenario, right? That we are getting closer to like getting the solar pung lands and spaces around us and like what then would we do? I mean, if it's like it's this it's this yin and yang story and
And as you're building out systems that are a lot more transparent and a lot more equitable and you know cater to everyone's well-being, you also at the same time need tools which are going to enable like
more privacy and like enable some amount of I would say some amount of encryption into how you are processing things and like having a layer if you I feel like we should always have the option of being able to like engage with those tools but not have them as default.
So, I mean just to like extend on that like I do I do believe that we we will obviously like have tools where they have more lunar punk in nature, but it's not something that would be set by default, but yeah, it's it's just a good
brain exercise to like you know go down that road yeah so I'll tell you what I think about what you just said so we essentially want to create intellectual property of people on the ground and having their wisdom encoded right and as I understand it solar punk dow is not
trying to create intellectual property in terms of values. I mean, it is invest in the Dow if you believe in our intelligence system is the way to go. So, but we are so our punk is approaching it from. From people all over the world coming together to create a transparent valuation system, right?
So that's how I'm seeing it at least. And so and you guys are not basing it off of like indigenous wisdom per se. So what we would want to do is like go to a place in like Brazil and like give them like indigenous indigenous tribes there are like communes there.
This seems of deep ecological thinking that they've had for years, be able to encode that into a graph and give them that as an intellectual property. If they start a retreat or something and someone comes over there and they're like, "Whoa, look at how beautifully this place is flourishing. They've got arts, they've got culture, they've got beauty, all
that stuff down right and I would also like to use their metrics to evaluate the actions that I'm making. So now you can pay them for their intellectual property of wisdom and bring it back to your place whether it's in India or in like Berlin and apply it there.
And now you've got there with them telling you as an agent or as a as a as a brain that you've borrowed are a consultant that your what actions need to be taken in your commune or your retreat and
what needs to be taken in your agricultural land, how will their wisdom apply to your land? Whereas I'm seeing solar punk Davos definitely thinking how to integrate high tech and low tech to make our lives better to increase our well-being.
All of that would be kept in your values and in your constitution in your own brain which will evaluate things and that can either be transparent as a whole or not and you can also keep like so this is what you call like differential privacy privacy It does not have zero or one state so you can also like take
can go to Brazil and be like damn dude, they've got wisdom. So now you can bring their brain back with you for your wisdom thing and put it in your solar punk valley system. And so one node, one brain there will tell you, hey, how the Brazil people would have done differently. So yeah, that's how I see it.
Yeah, I think this is a lot to take from and I yeah
I'd love to see this happen once, you know, like a particular, I think you were running a pilot and like being able to flesh this out as to like how it's actually happening would be quite exciting to see because it's in some ways also like a new primitive.
It's not something that happens now and you're using all of these ZK tech and like blockchain and stuff like that to create this out. Yeah, and it's a unique use case also, right? Like I still hadn't thought about what you exactly just said or being able to cross pollinate via this to this
extent. But yeah, that would be quite exciting to see. So do you have like any pilots that you're trying to work with for the active insurance product that you're building? Yeah, yeah, there's a project in Arizona, but it's still far away is off, man. I'll be honest, it'll take time for us to build all this stuff out because it's very new kind of science and
all that stuff but maybe you can look at Digital Gaia. Martin right? I think Martin got a file and not a file. So I think mostly we might be like so
So as of now, like when you talk about measurement, right, like my thesis and my thinking currently is that we mostly plug into like different MRV solutions and providers that have their own niche in specific geographies and in specific sectors.
So like Gaia would be good for like region ag and then somebody will put on us for like conservation and for different impact projects, there would be different MRV criteria like Shamba is building something right now for region ag so more like a plug-in play into like everyone's experience
and core focus areas and like when you build something for your specific needs, like depending on alignment and how if we need it, like we would just want ideally want to plug into someone else because it's a slippery slope also to be in a position where
We are doing MRV on our own products and then putting the data out. So ideally it needs to be like third parties that are doing it and third parties when they are decentralized, MRVs that's probably like the most ideal in my opinion.
You like I dressed a the trust issue be the control and the the ability of the data to get fudge is also then in control so made it as transparent and as trustless to some extent like as much as
it can be and yeah that data I feel like then ultimately doesn't get questioned so much because right now there is like I mean we go down on that track of like saying over like which
and where was this from and who was saying it and where is the record of this and like really happy and over the auditors corrupt or this and that and like it's like and we really need like hardcore evidence back data so that we're able to build
things on top of it. And also use it to create maybe a market for impact certificates or like how in our case we are using it. I create additional premium towards the assets that are backing the currency. So yeah, a lot of use cases
will definitely come up and I'm also quite excited to see how people end up using this because I think this leads us into a space which doesn't exist now. Honestly, pushing the frontier and pushing the limits of how we coexist right now.
It would be quite exciting to see what we end up doing with all this. Yeah, and which is why I mean stuff like getcoin is really useful, right? Because we can't do a move fast and break things sort of start up. And ever, you know, we're not going to don't break the environment and ecosystem more and more. So we need to have
have that ethos of like move slowly and plant things you know that's and that's something that Gitcon gives us like the runway to do we're not greedy we don't need all that fucking valuation or any of those things move as long as you can move slowly and plant things I'm sure those trees will be big enough in like you know 5 10 years so I'm more than happy in
to keep that going. And yeah, that's hurried. We need to get the digital brain, one single brain to rule the malls sort of thing. I don't agree with it. Keep it small, keep the model small, make sure it's connected to the local context so that people don't have, you know, their self-interest isn't aligned the wrong
way they actually do care about the environment so they don't want to fudge the data. So if you have your DMRB stack, if you have your measurement and reporting on blockchains and stuff, you don't really see a need for privacy there because that needs to be transparent to the entire world I feel. But verification is where we're getting
intelligence into the system and intelligence definitely needs to be like you know the money should go to the right people who have the intelligence not yeah not move fast and break things sort of approach definitely. Yeah, bra. I feel like we've just been jamming for the last 30-40 minutes and
But Pinsive, bro, do you want to set up your space so that we can transition from year to year? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, like, okay. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, so you want to exit and set that up. So then once you do that, like, I will shut this one down.
maintainer, I've been seeing you in the last 10-15 minutes. You want to come up and talk or do you just have your to listen. But I'd love to know what you're up to and what brings you to the space
And if there is any particular project you're working on. Oh, I see zero zero knowledge in your hashtag. Maintainer in your bio. Curious to get from your public good says AI open source. That he's got all the hashtags in.
Wait, no, are you dead? You want to give us a thumbs up or a thumbs down or something?
and where was anything happens like Jimmy jumps in and like you know sees it through and it's ridiculous it's actually like it's it's been a non-stop like relay race
And I thought that maybe there will be time slots when it's down and there's no activity. But yesterday, I ran one with the Shamba community guy for half and a 40 minutes where he was just him and me jamming and then Jimmy joined and then a few others joined.
But like for half an hour it was just him and me dude. We kept it going like one way or the other so yeah it's it's a fucking crazy experiment. It's beautiful. I mean I actually Lunarbone Labs should do a space as well so kind of you guys don't
Why don't you guys have a slot? Yeah, we should definitely book one. I've just been like super engaged. So Josh is taking a break. A very deserved break. Maya is also very busy with like a lot of her things as well. So I think I'll host one and maybe do you want to take do you want to take mine tomorrow which is three thousand?
the afternoon because I might be going to the passport office for my document submission. So if you're up for it like you can create a space, I can tag it and then you can take it up. It's this 332 430 slot. Okay. If it's just you doing this first time, then I think we will get somebody
to like stuart it for you also. Yeah, that's some filler, you know. And I think I can be there to like also help you because I think I might not be in a position to talk all the time, but I can obviously like jump in and out as like time and space permit at the office.
Damn, I can't hear you. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah, it was here as well. Glad to see you. Hey, hey, tomorrow is 330 slot. Yeah, man, send me a pile. I'll take over. Cool. Cool. We'll fix it after this. Yeah, guys, the Osabrah.
The pin saves tweet is pinned. I feel like let's transition to that and gang up over there. See you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Ciao. See you on the other side.