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#GitcoinRadio / Solarpunk / Community Radio
Recorded: Nov. 16, 2023 Duration: 1:31:15Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'll see you next time.
Yeah, so what I did is create it and immediately enter, put me as co-host with the Urbanica and then that save it. Let's see.
What name should I give to the radio?
I added Solapunk, Gitcoin Community Radio slash Solapunk.
Are you editing the name or should I do it?
As a co-host, can I edit?
I don't know.
Maybe you edit before I run the game.
Time.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I will tell Kiran and the people in the other space.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for the support.
Hello, Alex.
If you want to chat with me and this is a space of the Solapunk Guild, the Gitcoin Community Radio and we will talk about Solapunk.
So we have about an hour and 15.
We had some problem in setting up the space, but now the space is up and running.
And yeah, I accepted your request of becoming a speaker and nice to meet you, Alex.
Good morning.
How are you?
Not bad.
Not bad.
Not bad.
I do a Saturday space on climate crisis, the climate crisis club.
And I am very interested in Solapunk.
That's great.
At what time on Saturday?
It's a 11 o'clock Eastern Standard Time.
So I'm not sure which time that is for you.
It will be probably late afternoon.
I'm on CAT.
I'm in Northern Italy.
Excellent.
But I think I know your space.
Somebody already suggested me to join your space.
It was not possible for me up to now because we've been busy preparing Gitcoin grants.
It is always a very intense period of work for us.
But maybe this Saturday, since I have to work the whole day, maybe I will join the radio too.
Well, we go every Saturday and we emphasize relaxation.
You know, it's not work.
It's, you know, it's easy going.
No stress.
No worry.
Yeah.
That's also my philosophy.
Yeah.
I'm actually half Greek.
Okay.
My mother was Greek.
So Greece and Italy are awfully our cousins.
Yeah.
And we are also master of relaxation.
At least trying to take life easier.
Yes, exactly.
We put together our climate crisis club about a year ago.
So we've done 50 spaces.
We do one a week.
That's good.
Yeah.
And how is it going?
It's going very well.
Yeah.
We started about four or five of us a year ago on Twitter.
We were all chatting away and somebody said, why don't you start a space?
And we said, what is a space?
And so we started it without knowing none of us had ever heard one or been in one.
And we just started it spontaneously.
And for about six months, for about six months, we all went along very small, just every Saturday, talking among each other with no idea what the rules are, what you're supposed to do.
The best way.
Just flow.
Yes.
Yes.
So then one day in May, Lakota man came to visit us.
The great Native American, you know, Twitter account, he's got like half a million followers.
And and once he visited our space, we got hundreds of people listening suddenly instead of, you know, 10 or 20.
We also had Michael Mann, the climate scientist, twice talking with us.
Oh, really?
Yes.
That's amazing.
Yes.
I'm actually I've become very good friends with him.
We direct message almost every day.
I don't I'm known as the Michael Mann whisperer.
He's extremely difficult.
He's very difficult to get along with.
And for some reason I have.
He's from Massachusetts, where I live.
I live out in the woods.
Yeah.
You have the magic touch.
I have the magic touch.
And I he blocks everyone and fights with everybody.
And for some reason, between him and I, it just we get along.
So that really helps.
That's good.
He's like the faculty advisor for our space.
The, you know, the.
That's great.
And we have.
Let me already start to give some value to you, to your visit.
I have a couple of friends here that I would love to introduce you.
One is Umberto.
You can see behind now the Solopan Guild, a Twitter account.
He helped me to set up the space because I was completely.
I was continuing to run.
Yeah.
And Umberto has a great project.
It's called Urbanica.
I will tell you.
They will tell you about it.
And then we have Kiran behind the Atlantis logo, Twitter account.
And they have a peer to peer climate action network.
And they are doing amazing things.
And they actually have a climate radio running every Thursday.
Awesome.
So Kiran and Umberto, please introduce yourself to Alex.
You have a lot of things to share or you're sharing a lot of things.
Hello.
Hello.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Nice to meet you, Alex.
I'm Umberto from Mexico.
In Mexico?
Yep.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Yep.
Urbanica is a project regarding self-management focus on neighborhoods.
So we have courses to teach neighbors how to coordinate without.
the need of the government or the need of, um, a board of direction.
Uh, it is a peer governance process and it takes between one to four months, this immersive
learning experience.
Yeah.
And then, um, we pass to another phase where it's the consolidation that it's now up to
them to carry it again.
And we are just there for, um, for support if they need it.
Uh, but the, so this is the process, how we arrive to, to consolidate self-management in neighborhoods.
And we are using web three technologies to, to enable this, uh, coordination.
Um, and while we are also transforming a bus, uh, to a climate positive house, all the process,
all the human processes within the house, uh, are within circular cycles.
So water is captured from the rain mostly.
And then it, it is used for whatever drain, um, taking a shower, washing dishes, et cetera.
But it goes through different processes, which is, uh, uh, grease trap, a biofilter, and then a water purification mechanism,
uh, where we can reuse that water, uh, for up to 70% of that water can be reused and we can even drink it.
And well, those are, it's full, the house of this kind of stuff.
So the, the, also the motor is fueled by cooking oil and the poop and pee, pee goes to, uh, bio digester to produce gas,
to fuel the kitchen and so on.
And while we are doing this to inspire decision makers from, uh, neighborhoods, from the municipal councils,
and universities, chambers of commerce, et cetera, to retrofit their buildings or to build new infrastructure
that already, uh, includes this type of eco technologies.
That's what we are doing.
Thanks to me.
Excellent.
Yeah.
It's all that's, this is what we talk about.
Um, we, we have a message board that goes 24 seven, uh, you know, uh, we have 77 members from 20 nations.
And we, we actually, uh, one of our strengths is young African activists, especially from Uganda.
Um, uh, South Sudan, Cameroon, Nigeria.
Um, so, uh, uh, several other African countries.
We have lots of the, uh, young African activists who engage in, in a, you know, in those, in, in Uganda is the country we know so well.
The, the, the, in the rural countryside, only 10% of the people have electricity.
Almost nobody has running water.
So the young activists go out in the Ugandan countryside and, um, do those kinds of missions, how to reuse water, how to plant, when to plant, uh, what is carbon dioxide.
And we are not really a solar punk.
I'm, I'm actually a punk rocker, um, from the seventies in New York city.
Uh, so I, I, that, that's my cultural roots.
I grew up in New York city where the Ramones started in 1974.
We, we consider them to have started punk rock and I was a punk rocker very early on.
And, uh, so I also got into William Gibson and, and cyberpunk in the eighties, which is what I really consider.
All this is sort of how I, I, I process this experience.
And I've only, in say in the last year, found out about solar punk and read a few sci-fi novels.
And, uh, I love it.
I'm not even really sure what it is, but I like it.
And, and for our climate crisis club, it really gives some positivity that they don't know about.
And so many of them, so much of what I do is climate support, um, cheering people up, cheering environmentalists up and persuading them that, uh, you know, we can do this.
We can clean up the earth, clean up the air and water, rebuild the rainforest, get the whales back, that we can do this.
So many of them are, uh, anxious, nervous, uh, panic.
None of them can sleep.
Uh, and the echo depression is, is rampaging.
So my philosophy is there's so many people who care about the environment around the world.
There's so many environmentalists.
If we can unionize them a bit, they all fight.
They love fighting over everything.
If we can, uh, uh, teach them some solidarity and get them more positive, we can get an awful lot done quite quickly.
And the solar punk is a, just an excellent vision of the future.
Um, but I'll leave it to you guys to explain to me what it is.
Yeah.
Well, uh, you got it right.
I mean, solar bank is a positive vision of the future.
So it's something like a new topic where, uh, we imagine that, uh, humans, the human civilization will have solved, uh, all its, uh, main problem, uh, through solidarity, community, community and technology.
So it's, uh, a YouTube that guide us and, uh, to stay positive and not to be, how you say, to get caught by, uh, climate anxiety.
That is a big problem in our period personally.
And then I will tell you about, uh, that is, uh, our main project, but personally, I found solar punk and then specifically generating, uh, uh, IE arts of solar punk really helps me with my climate anxiety.
So in the morning I'm a biologist by profession.
So in the morning I read the news, but when I read the news, the problem is that as a biologist, I get even more worried.
So it's, uh, it's challenging.
Yeah.
And so coffee, news, depression, and then maybe one hour playing with a yard, uh, building imaginary world, but quite possible because of what I normally create, uh, are images of a possible world.
I'm not a very futuristic or far away in the future world.
And then, uh, I, uh, I really start my day.
And I found that in this process of creating, uh, solar punk, IE arts, I found a lot of people that are, uh, finding it useful for them too.
And, uh, I'm creating a quite strong community around that actually.
And, uh, we decided, yeah, to, to, to, um, to get gonna go.
I don't know if you're familiar with our Gitcoin grants.
Okay.
So, uh, a Gitcoin grants is a, um, is a project for public good funding that, uh, have happened every three months.
Uh, so, uh, we raised money, uh, on, uh, Gitcoin grants.
Uh, the, we are just under a Gitcoin grant now that started yesterday.
And, uh, two Gitcoin grants ago was, uh, so six months ago, I launched this concept of, uh, solar punk world building that basically is, uh, is, uh, imagining a better world, creating arts, but doing it at, uh, as a community together.
So, you know, under this, uh, flag of solar punk world building, I've been creating more than a thousand artworks, uh, i.e. artworks, uh, in the last six months.
And a lot of people are co-creating with me, are participating.
And I don't know, I post, uh, an image of, uh, uh, a solo punk school in Uganda.
I started to jump around that.
Yeah.
And I found a friend, now a friend from Uganda.
They want to build one.
And now he presented a project on the, on Gitcoin grant just yesterday.
And in this process, we build together a positive vision of the future.
And I found that I art is so, so helpful on that.
So, yeah, that's what we're doing.
Well, excellent.
I, I mean, I technically am an artist.
Um, my father was a big American artist and, uh, he, he taught artistic anatomy in New York.
And, and, and I'm really a polymath.
I, I was a math prodigy as a kid, a chess player.
I love science.
Uh, one of the things that a climate crisis club is a hundred percent pro science.
Um, I'm weak on biology.
I'm much more in the physics realm.
And, but we have found that the ignorance about science, the anti-science in the United States is just absolutely appalling.
And, and people don't, they don't understand the scientific process.
They don't understand how scientific knowledge is accumulated.
I've just been horrified learning this, that they think science is sort of like law.
That you, you present the case and the jury kind of judges.
And I don't know what they think, but that, that has been one of our findings.
Uh, of, and we insist we're a hundred percent pro science.
We throw anybody right out if they are, or, or, you know, just anti-science in any way.
Well, the, the people that maybe say, oh, I don't agree about climate science, climate change.
You know, I, I disagree with it.
I mean, come on.
Uh, well, we're even affiliated with the climate ninjas.
I can post up, uh, their BBC piece.
They're a group of hackers who take on climate deniers all day.
And they're sort of like our underground branch.
Um, yeah, I, um, Stephen Barlow is our ecologist.
We have a professional ecologist.
He's English.
He studied ecology in the early seventies.
He got one of the first ecology degrees in England and he works as a nature interpreter
out in the bog in the middle England somewhere.
And, and he teaches it.
He's taught me more than anyone.
As I say, I'm a little weak in biology and, and he's an ecologist.
Uh, we talk Gaia all day and, and, uh, the, the 19 quintillion insects and all the interactions
of life forms.
He, he teaches me that, that side of it.
Um, our other main science guy is a, is a climate data guy.
He does the, the charts constantly, you know, all the temperatures and carbon dioxide and
that stuff.
We, so those are our two main science guys.
Um, I went to a math and science high school, so I have a big science background.
I, I, I'm, I'm literate in science.
Um, that's, that's, that's so important.
And how do you, how do you handle your climate anxiety?
Because since you are aware of the problem and you deal with the issue, how, how do you
deal with it personally?
Yeah, I'm quite good at psychology.
That's one of my strengths.
That's one of my strengths.
We have a, a wonderful, uh, professional psychologist in our club from Columbia.
And, and we do it like a monthly session with her.
Uh, I actually get climate panic as opposed to the anxiety.
I don't really seem to have the anxiety.
I, I have, I did go straight to the panic, straight to exactly.
Uh, it's still, it's, it's 10 in the morning here on the East coast, uh, of the Atlantic
here.
And I am in the coffee and news cycle.
The other thing I add to that is the reggae.
I, I play the old roots reggae music every single morning.
Um, and, and think a bit about the Atlantic slave trade and what it all means.
And that seems to sort of ground me.
Um, I, I also am very existential.
I'm very much in the here and now and, and I just don't care what happens 10 years from
now.
It just, it just doesn't bother me.
I just, you know, 20, 33, I just don't care what happens.
I'm, it's about today for me.
Um, I, that's a very good mindset.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have, uh, farmer Ed is with us, uh, uh, a regenerative agriculture specialist.
Um, we love farmer Ed.
He's also based in Massachusetts.
So he's listening in here.
Uh, yeah, he's a great guy.
Yeah.
I know that we've been, uh, jamming in different spaces together.
Yeah.
And if you want to jump in and, uh, tell us about, uh, what's new in your board, uh,
just feel free.
Otherwise just listen.
And, uh, let me tell you, Alex, a bit about our main project.
Uh, because, uh, uh, we started, uh, about a year and a half ago with a project called
Solapunk Nomadism.
And, uh, basically it was a vision of, uh, uh, a specific lifestyle for change makers.
So we imagine a future for, uh, with nomadic change maker using, uh, zero carbon vehicles
and, uh, to, to move, to live, uh, nomadic or saving nomadically, increasing their climate
change resilience.
But we imagine specifically change makers.
So, and we, uh, we have this vision of people that traveling in the regional level, they could
give a lot of value to their presence in different community.
Also being the storyteller or sharing information about regeneration, about the Solapunk vision.
And we presented it on GitCon grants, uh, a year and a half ago, and, uh, it was, uh, immediately
well supported.
And, uh, from there we started to build the project.
And so we, uh, we, uh, I say we completed a little bit of, uh, we, um, work on the vision.
We worked with many artists, the Solapunk artists.
We did an exhibition, virtual exhibition last summer.
Then we introduced the concept of a Solapunk safe place.
We did an expedition to, for another company called, uh, West Dow, uh, analyzing potential,
uh, safe places in the Western Alps, Western Italian Alps.
And then, uh, we started to build vehicles because from imagination, we started to build
prototypes.
And so we build it together with Atlantis that is here with us.
We build it, uh, um, an electric tuk-tuk, uh, to be used as a van, a mini van for educational
activities in India, in Southern India.
Uh, my co-founder, my co-founder Marco Berry that is here, was in the room.
Uh, he spent three, four months last year in India together with Atlantis for this project.
And then we build it in a bike with solar panel and a trailer, uh, like a, uh, camper trailer,
let's say.
And, uh, Marco did an expedition from where we are in Italy, from Milan to Bruxelles.
It took him a month, but to envision the lifestyle for a future nomadic change maker using bikes.
And so we started building many different things.
And, uh, now we have, uh, uh, a lot of people that are vibing with our vision of the future.
And, uh, and, uh, of Solapan Nomadism.
We just launched the website.
You can see the website.
It's, uh, linked on the Solapan Nomad, uh, uh, Twitter page.
Or otherwise it's solapannomads.xyz.
And, uh, you can even download the guidebook there.
So we wrote, uh, uh, 60 pages guidebook on Solapan Nomadism.
And, uh, yeah, here we are.
And, uh, on another good congrats.
Excellent.
Um, we, we've managed the entire climate crisis club with no money at all.
No funding, just being completely digital.
Uh, one of the things happens when we, we are global, we discuss global environmental and, and climate issues.
Uh, our, our four focuses foci are, uh, climate crisis, soil, um, plastics and biodiversity.
That's usually how we break it up.
And almost immediately everybody starts talking politics and economics.
It's, it's almost like a curse just immediately.
And, and, and over the course of a year, we've really learned, we've, we've discussed hundreds of hours of discussion on politics and economics.
And, and, and, and nowadays I try to just talk about anything else.
I mean, your Italian politics are a mess.
One could get into that, you know.
Wait, wait, wait, wait for the American politics in a, in a few months, eh?
Yes.
Yes.
Well, that, uh, I, uh, one of the things that Europeans don't understand is we Americans have 25% of the world's resources.
We are completely insane, but we are mad.
We will, we, we, when these Americans get the climate idea, you won't believe how insane they are.
We're, we're just completely out of our minds and our English friends just don't understand at all.
Like, you know, uh, so the, if we can persuade our American politicians at all, uh, to get climate friendly, we can actually have the ability to do gigantic things.
Um, so that's one of our main American focus points, uh, with climate is, uh, right now I count five of our, um, a hundred senators as pure green.
We're trying to, you know, build a solid green, uh, coalition here and, and having a Republican president next year, winning the election, we see as the worst single thing that can happen to the global environment.
So that is very much, uh, and I'm also connected to a lot of American, uh, political activists here and people who hold spaces.
Um, uh, and Eugene of, of democracy first is he's a Chippewa Indian and he's particularly excellent on spaces Tuesday to Thursday democracy first.
But we are hoping, um, to get into next summer to really get into American politics and trying to get climate, uh, you know, you know, as a higher priority climate environment as a higher priority in American politics.
Right now it's, it's much less noticeable than in Europe.
It's, it's much less of an issue here than in Europe and solar punk is a vision.
It is a something tangible and positive.
Uh, certainly nobody in America has ever heard of it.
I can tell you that it's, it would be only in, in small sci-fi communities here.
Uh, I've never heard it mentioned once in, you know, day to day conversation, uh, by anyone, but it certainly is a very good image of the future of how of positivity and a goal we can get to your, your, your artwork of nature and solar panels and earth friendly materials.
Uh, agriculture is, uh, agriculture is just excellent.
And that can play into American politics.
Yeah.
I, I, I think that, uh, um, it definitely is a new thing, solar punk.
And, uh, majority of people, they don't know about that, but, uh, I find that it's, uh, pretty addictive.
And when people, a lot of people re resonate about these images because, uh, specifically the image I create, I always try to do.
Do things that are possible.
So, uh, I try to imagine.
Yeah.
Sometimes fancy design, but always on the possible side of it because, uh, people see it and say, wow, I want to be there.
I wanted to stay in a place like that.
It makes sense to a lot of people that they don't really understand.
And I think it's a good, uh, alignment exercise because at the end, uh, I think that, uh, the problem we are in is, uh, uh, mainly a problem of misalignment of vision of people.
And because the people, they don't know what, how, which kind of life they want to have.
If I asked somebody of my village, my little town, I live in a town of 15,000 people, how they see the future of our town.
They have no idea because they've been trained to think about the future.
They barely survive in their crazy, uh, life dominated by a capitalism.
And they are so stressed and so overwhelmed.
I mean, you don't have time or mind to speak, to think about the future, but when you show them these images, wow, this is a lot of people resonate with it.
So I think it's a, it has a very high potential to art is a good way.
It's a good tool to align people.
And, uh, if you can help people to co-create this image and actually IEART is a, an amazing tool because it's easy to use.
I'm not, I'm no artist at all.
And, uh, maybe my creativity always goes in project in new things to do, but as an artist, uh, I'm no artist, let's say, but I still can create all these images that you see and thousands of people appreciate.
Uh, and, uh, it means that everybody can do that.
It's just a matter of, uh, I think a very, very, very basic knowledge about how to use it and access to the, to the mid journey.
I use mainly mid journey and the tree.
So I think the potential is amazing.
Excellent.
My town is 17,000 here in Northern Massachusetts along the ocean.
And it is a small town, but it's quite liberal, uh, and progressive, uh, Massachusetts is one of the most progressive states and, and people are more tolerant.
And, uh, we have some of the strictest gun rules.
Uh, we were one of the, one of the first jurisdictions in the world to have gay marriage here in the, in the whole world and, and things like that.
But, uh, solar punk, certainly, uh, in our community, the climate change community and environmental community, we always have, you know, current issues, trendy issues, things we're talking about.
Um, and, and certainly if I can get the environmentalists, you know, going on solar punk, I think it'd be really good for them to give them some hope and, and something to look a goal.
They have no goal.
They have an accumulation of problems.
We got 349 North Atlantic right whales left.
We started off in 1800 with 6 trillion trees.
It's trillion trees.
Now we got 3 trillion trees.
And we all know that carbon dioxide is going up like 2.5 parts per million every year.
Like it's never stopping.
And that's the environmentalist world.
And the people who bleed and live green, we have many of them who've been green their entire life.
Uh, they, they are suffering and, and to have a, to have a vision of, to aim for would really do them good.
To, to have a, a, a, a positive vision of a solar punk society, uh, would really be positive for them.
I'm completely open to it.
I live in an 1850 house, you know, that we, we just want to, uh, create around and, and try to, you know, manage with the earth.
And, you know, we, we got an electric vehicle.
We got a, uh, Chevy Bolt.
The house has been through many hurricanes, but we, we love our Chevy Bolt.
We just went out and bought one cause we could, you know, and, and we talk about it with people and it's so clean.
And, you know, it's all sort of part of a, a vision of a better society that's more in tune with the earth and, and taking care of some of it.
We, we, we see these environmental problems as starting to threaten our society and our nation.
That, that, that the microplastics in the ocean, you know, there are 90% of all the fish from there from pole to pole.
They found microplastics above Mount Fiji.
Uh, so we know that we're, we're, we see the environmental threat as starting to threaten our civilization.
Yeah.
That it's no longer the, the industrial age, uh, pollution can no longer be tolerated.
That, that it is starting to be a major threat.
Yeah.
And they say that if you eat fish, you eat at least one credit card a week or a month, something like that.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and, uh, these are the issue.
Plastics is really insidious.
Uh, they're, they're great uses.
I can just, this is what we do.
I can go on and on like this, right?
I mean, I'm getting into the lecture and I don't know.
No, no, no worries.
And we are just here to chat.
Our faces are open to just chatting about and supporting each other about the positive vision of the future.
And if somebody else wants to jump on the stage, I've seen, I see many friends here.
So don't feel shy, just, uh, ask the, the mic and, uh, we'll chat with you as well.
And, uh, I wanted also to share something else about, uh, uh, our vision that, uh, the Solaban Nomad is, uh, is, uh, I think, uh, uh, a vision that helps people also to, um, to be positive on, uh, a possible lifestyle.
That is, uh, uh, more gentle with the planet because, uh, uh, all the nomads, uh, by nature are minimalistic because they move and they can, they can't really have the, uh, crazy amount of stuff that we normally have in our houses.
And so people that decide to go nomadic or semi-nomadic are very gentle with the planet.
And so it's for us is also an inspiring, uh, uh, lifestyle, not only lifestyle that allow you to be more effective as a change maker, not only lifestyle that allow you to have a higher climate change resilience, but also lifestyle that really reduced your overall impact with the planet.
And this, for us, it's very important.
Of course, it's not perfect.
It's not for everybody.
It's not for everybody.
It's just, uh, a vision for the time being, but a vision that is inspiring many people.
And, uh, we think that, uh, already giving a positive vision of the future to so many people, uh, it's, uh, it's a big accomplishment for us.
Uh, on my page, uh, on my page, uh, my Twitter page, uh, during, uh, during the months where we have, uh,
normally goes 300 or 350,000 views in a month.
So it means a lot of people are looking at this message and taking something positive out of it.
Excellent.
Yeah.
It's interesting that you use the word nomad often.
What we use is indigenous.
It's, uh, as you know, often the indigenous people are nomadic.
Uh, we, we're always talking about indigenous peoples.
Um, they are 5% of the world's population, and yet they protect 80% of the world's wilderness.
So we are very interested in many of our young African friends, uh, identify as indigenous.
Uh, we have several native Americans.
We talk with regularly, and we are very interested in indigenous knowledge, science, ways of life.
Um, one of our project is Congo Amazon.
We talked to, uh, several people in the DRC in the Congo.
The, the, the Congo river, the Congo river basin, the rainforest.
They have a peat bog in the Congo that is larger than, than the UK.
Um, he, yeah, peat is one of the best ways to store carbon that nature has.
So we discuss the Congo with KMBA and the others in the DRC.
And then we discuss, uh, Brazil.
Well, now we're discussing every week, the situation in Brazil.
Brazil is the world's, has the world's third most cars as a nation.
They are rapidly becoming a first world modern developed nation.
They have a $3.1 trillion GDP.
And of course the Amazon rainforest.
The Amazon river is by far, uh, the world's largest river.
The, the outflow from the Amazon is something like four times that of the second biggest river.
So the Congo Amazon has been one of our main focus recently.
Uh, it, and, and as I was saying, we don't discuss nomadic so much though.
I'm very interested in nomadic lifestyle.
Um, as you know, the, the odyssey is a big deal to the Greeks,
wandering around the Mediterranean.
Yeah.
We will, uh, I will definitely come to your space.
And maybe we talk a little bit of nomadism or maybe even Marco can join sometimes.
Absolutely.
Well, yeah, we're very open and free and I would be delighted to make solar punk a topic
and, and, and to let you talk and, and see what the group, you know, what their ideas
and input are.
Absolutely.
And, and, and it, uh, you know, it's Saturday every week.
Yeah.
And also something that we can do.
And, uh, I, I tested that a few months ago during a good time, uh, radio, uh, was something
like, uh, uh, a co-creation of the solar punk world.
So at that time we jammed for a few days around the solar punk future of Koh Phangan at this,
uh, tropical island in Southern Thailand.
Yeah.
It was very interesting because I asked everybody to imagine a solar punk future for that island.
And I got a very long list of something like 120 ideas, different ideas on how to make,
uh, a future, a solar punk future for that place.
Uh, I still have to finish to create all the artwork for that.
But it's nice because once you have the idea and it's co-created and people, uh, can really
add things.
And now with, um, with the high art, you can also create images of this future.
You can show to the people, they can say, okay, no, let's change this.
No, I want this greenhouse, uh, not like this in the other way.
And the process itself is very important.
I call it word, uh, solar punk world building because it's, we, we put together people creating
this world and in the co-creation, the magic happens because when people feel part of the
process, then it changed their mind.
So they start to believe that it's possible to create something different and to imagine
a different future.
And we think that's, it's a very, very, uh, important issue because, uh, specifically people
who are aware of climate change problem are all depressed.
So we are all, we are all worried and full with anxiety and with nightmares and panic attacks
like you were saying.
Yes.
That's the climate support is something I personally am quite good at.
That's, that's part of my, uh, you know, that's part of my gig.
We try to get what people are good at in, in the group and let them use that, you know, like,
like Ed is just terrific at farming, explaining the agriculture, natural, you know, regenerative agriculture.
So we try to get everyone talking on their good topic on their strength.
And, um, I am good at the, the climate psychology.
Just, I don't know quite why I cheer people up.
They tell me I'm positive and I just roll with it.
I don't really feel like I know that much, but I just go, I'm good at hosting too.
I, I, I don't know why I, and I'm very good at recruiting people for our club.
So I just roll with my strengths and, and not try to be something I'm not.
Um, one of my projects is finding Twitter spaces, hosts, um, making coalitions.
Uh, I mentioned Eugene.
He's always one of our favorites.
Um, near, near, I don't know if you know near in Israel.
He's been, uh, holding spaces from Tel Aviv.
He's absolutely fascinating.
And I, and I try, I'm trying to make coalitions with other spaces hosts as a loose federation
or a loose coalition in different topics and different places, mostly in English.
Um, there's a German, uh, climate club that we discuss life with and, and, but we are trying
to stick mostly to the English language.
Uh, so that's one of our big projects is these building of coalitions of different issues
and topics.
How are you doing?
You got Ed with us.
How are you doing Ed?
How's life?
Yeah.
What's your thoughts on solar pump?
Oh, well, you know, I, I was originally a shepherd, so I guess that's a pretty similar.
We want to move around, keep the animals moving, not be stable.
It's better for the client, better for the environment.
What kind of animals did you have?
I raised sheep, um, for, was trying to, I started back in the seventies.
We realized that grazing needed to change from the traditional type to being more eco-friendly.
So we needed to mimic how nature worked, how the bison worked.
And it was also a time when polyester came out and, and, you know, which is now a major
problem in the micro plastic fibers around.
And I was hoping that we could save natural fibers, whether it be wool or cause our organic
cotton is a little tough to grow in many areas.
We're starting to figure it out with the regenerative agriculture, but it's tended to
have, you know, it's a tough crop to grow organically.
Um, so, but, and there's other fibers now, you know, whether we can get hemp into it, but,
you know, everything became about polyester.
And so that was also a factor.
Plus it's a smaller animal to handle.
Um, so, you know, compared to cattle or something like that for, especially for small farms or
homesteaders or that sort of thing.
Um, it's, you know, it's a good, it's of the meats.
It's a very healthy meat.
It's, um, I just, you know, something I connected with.
So, but I thought I'd mention a little bit what's been happening in the region ag community.
Um, for people who don't know, regenerative agriculture was started by farmers and has been driven by
farmers and we've attracted some good independent researchers over the years to help us understand
better how the environment works, how soil works, because soil was never really studied.
It was treated like dirt.
It was a medium to hold a plant up in a monoculture system where it was constantly tilled.
And, you know, to be proud, you needed a clean field with only your crop and nothing else in
that field.
And it was sort of a competitive with nature instead of being collaborative with nature.
And of course, then all the chemicals we were using, not only was the cost adding up and getting
worse and worse for farmers while what they were getting paid was less and less, but all the,
the promises that they were safe and all that sort of thing, those have sort of disappeared
over the years.
So we really needed to find a way to, can we grow food with nature biologically instead of
chemically?
And of course it brought in all the factors of observation of nature, realizing nature uses
biodiversity instead of monoculture as it keeps the ground covered.
It wants to have living roots in the soil as much as the time is possible.
And it wants to integrate all forms of life, whether they be livestock, birds, insects.
You know, we were thinking of insects as pests.
Well, for Jonathan Lundgren, a famous endermologist says for every pest, there's 1,700 beneficial
insects.
Are we killing 1,700 in one of them?
Yeah.
So, you know, we've really learned a lot.
I would say in the last year or two, we've been focusing a lot on understanding organic
nitrogen instead of having to use fracked, you know, synthetic nitrogens, which are not as
healthy for us to consume.
Plus they, when they're used, they are expensive, they're manipulated, their fossil prices manipulated,
their fossil fuel based.
And so, you know, it was thought by science that only legumes could really produce nitrogen
in the soil.
But then we started to understand there were free roaming bacteria and archaea that could
actually produce nitrogen.
And then a few years ago, there was the discovery of rhizophagy cycling, which is where a plant
actually ranches bacteria, takes it in whole, dissolves off some of the nutrients, starts to shoot it out of root
hair and can produce nitrogen in that root hair, and then sends it out and grows it back up in a cycle.
And so, we now have farmers that have really eliminated any of their synthetic nitrogen needs,
yet are still productive and adding resilience too, because the more microbes you have in the soil
and the better diversity, the more resilient we found our soils are too.
And of course, we've had many cases this year in the United States where it was talked about with the droughts
we've been having, where the regenerative farms, their crops are still green, while the other farms in the
neighborhood, you know, were really suffering or didn't even get a crop.
So, the organic nitrogen is really important, we feel, because that's been a major problem over the last few years.
And nitrous oxides are significant, even much stronger than methane as a greenhouse gas.
So, it's not talked about that much.
And we've often thought it was the fertilizer industry that sort of suppressed that information from the public.
But, you know, we now have, what's interesting is, one of my friends, it's in Iowa, that farms, we're doing a lot of soil testing now.
We have a whole new way of doing soil.
We're not testing for the chemical situation and the gaps of chemicals.
We're testing for the biological activity.
And so, when we're testing our soils now, we're finding that we have, as I said, a friend in Iowa found that he had almost no nitrate or ammonium in his soil.
And he sent a test to our labs that we work with, the Regen Ag Lab, but he sent one to Iowa University's chemical test.
And, of course, they said, well, you can't grow a crop in that soil because there's no nitrate or ammonium in your soil.
And yet, when we do a biological test for organic carbon, he was loaded with organic carbon.
And that carbon and his crops yielded just as much as any of the other fertilized crops in his area.
So, and this is, and of course, this is stuff that the establishment says is impossible.
And it's been really fascinating because we started out saying, you know, we need to stop tillage, which was the number one practice.
And they said, well, to succeed with that would be impossible.
And then we said, you know, we don't need the pesticides because if we build resilience with the microbes in our soil and interact as many insects as possible and as much diversity, we don't have the devastating results from pests.
We just get minor problems.
So we can, and they said, that was impossible, but we've shown it to be true.
And now with this nitrogen situation, they keep saying that's impossible.
And yet we're now showing it and, and I'm getting some building of, I have been creating regenerators network, which is, I want to have an online open source platform to connect farmers around the world in their context with multiple satellite sites to really understand and work together in these things.
And I've got some, and I've got some interest now going to get this funded.
So I'm hoping to get that launch pretty soon.
So lots of really positive things going and trying to get this information more out, you know, in our country, the more, the more first people we get to adopt it, then they can be a site for other people in their areas.
And we're finding a rapid expansion of it in the United States, we're estimating 50 million to maybe 70, 80 million right now in transition.
So, and the other outcome is we're really trying to push is we're producing much more nutrient dense foods, much bigger spectrum of nutrients, which cut down on the costs.
If you can eat one carrot, like we used to, instead of having to eat three to get the same nutrition or four, that's a big savings.
Plus the health advantages of getting nutrition back into our diet, we think will be tremendous on the healthcare costs around the world and the advance in the disease.
You also have to move less, less product.
I have a couple of questions for you, Ed.
First of all, how is going last year, the adoption from, let's say, traditional farmer of this new technique of regenerative agriculture?
And the second question is, are you on Gitcoin Grants?
Can we support you there this time or you're not there?
Transition every, in the last, I would say five years and every year gets stronger and stronger and stronger.
Um, we've been putting, farmers have been putting on field days, on conferences.
Um, there's tremendous attendance.
There's a tremendous excitement about it.
And one thing that's really great about it is young people are many of them, you know, that grew up on farms, left the farm because, you know, in the old system, there was concerns over health.
I, I know many older farmers that are suffering from diseases and dying young because of it.
And, and plus the manipulation of the market, the antitrust laws that aren't being enforced in agriculture, a lot of them left the farm.
Um, but now with regenerative, they're coming back and we have a lot of interest in young farmers and we're, we're, we're having older farmers that lease land, trying to get it to young farmers, trying to work out deals for secession.
So that these young people can have a chance to, to, to have a farm in the future.
Um, it's, it's been really positive.
And I mean, it's in my 50 or 50 plus years of being involved in it, it's, it's the biggest, most exciting times I've ever experienced.
And so we realize it is the future.
Of course, we're going up against the status quo.
We're creating a paradigm shift.
It's a revolution in food and growing food.
And those aren't easy, but that's why we realized it has to be a grassroots effort, but, um, and yes, I want to tie in, you know, I've been hanging out with the refi community and, and trying to, because that's also a paradigm shift in how we look at our money and, and how, you know, all that system.
And so, um, but I haven't really, you know, I think in agriculture, it's still got some way to go.
I think the trees and the environment were an easy first step to get in, into it.
Um, and then some small, you know, sort of, um, the old, what we used to have, think of as commune farms and young people getting together and learning together on properties.
And intentional communities and stuff, I think is starting, but, but it hasn't really quite got to the level of sort of a global, you know, dealing with large farms and medium farms and on a global level.
And so I think because it's so young, I mean, it took us, you know, basically 50 years to really get to the point we're at, which isn't long when we think of 10,000 years of kind of not doing it right.
Or, or, or certainly for many years, you know, indigenous people and, you know, all the way back to hunter gatherers, you know, they learn through observation experience with nature, except the only thing is they didn't have the ability.
Now we can look at the organisms and we can understand how they work.
And in fact, right now we're last couple of years, we're working with people with metagenomics.
So we can actually identify all the organisms and really get to know them personally and what each one of them does and all the different types of bacterias and all the different types of fungi.
And we're not doing that to edit them or to GMO them.
We're just doing that so that we can understand them and get to know them because we know, we know everything above ground.
You know, we know the difference between a tiger and a lion and a butterfly and a, you know, hummingbird.
Like those all come to mind.
Everybody can picture in their head, but we just don't know that about the underworld.
And yet, you know, that's just as complex and, and even more important because all life stems off of those organisms on the ground and we've just neglected them, didn't think they mattered.
And of course, that's what's got us into the problem.
And I think that one of the biggest things in the climate movement we're going to do, I think that's really crucial is reversing desertification.
Because we have so much, so many parts of the world that have so many of the poorest people that are just desertifying.
And it's because of our management of our planet.
And we've learned now that we can reverse that using nature in just a few years without having to use all the machinery, all the fertilizers, all the chemicals, you know, building water traps and all that.
I mean, that's all good, but it takes a lot of labor.
It takes a lot of money and you can actually use nature to do it and do it a lot faster.
So that's something we're focusing on globally is, and we think that'll, that'll solve the climate as much as anything that we're else that's happening.
We've already found that when we've taken major pieces of deserted, dirted land and re-greened it again, all of a sudden we get hydrological cycling happening again and water cycling.
And of course that cools the planet because once you cover the planet, we do that all the time.
We go out with a thermometer in our fields and on a bare ground, it's 130 degrees Fahrenheit.
And where it's covered, it's 85 degrees in the summer.
That's a huge difference in re-radiation, so.
Yeah.
And also you bring a massive quantity of carbon in the soil.
So you take it out from the atmosphere.
I'm just curious, have you presented a project in the GitCon grants?
Because what you're doing is very important for the fight to climate change.
And we have this round, the climate round, where probably what you're doing could be supported.
Have you ever thought about that?
I don't even have a wallet, you know, a GitCoin wallet.
And of course, I get that from Jimmy.
I get that from Ben.
I get it from everybody.
Why not?
Well, you know, I work in my area.
The project I'm working on is a little bit above in money than what an average GitCoin grant is.
And in the scale, because I'm doing a project that is intended to go global.
So, you know, I'm in the range of maybe a half a million dollars right now that I think I might have secured.
So it's a little, because I'm trying to do a major scale thing.
Of course, it'll have to start small and in a beta sense.
But the intention is...
I get your point, Dad.
But you have to consider that GitCoin grants are not only to raise grants.
From our personal experience, being a GitCoin grantee, it helps you really to communicate about your project,
to get in touch with an amazing network of changemakers, to get in touch with a lot of people.
So it could be an exercise also to involve other people in what you're doing,
to inspire other people in order to scale your important project.
So it's not only about raising funds.
And if I look back at...
We did already five rounds with Solar Bank Nomads.
But if I look back, I must say that the most important things we got for being GitCoin grantees
were not the money, were not the funding, but were the contact, the vision, the network.
And so I think GitCoin grants is much more than funding.
And we will be glad to assist you in case you want to get in next time.
Always glad to help.
Well, that's why...
I mean, I communicate within the network.
You know, I have for...
I've been doing it for almost two years now.
And so I know a lot of the people.
I communicate with them.
I share ideas with them.
I've been trying to tie together the two communities.
That's one thing that I need to do before I can really bring the regenerative ag community
into the refi or the GitCoin community because they're not coming to our events.
And they don't know our people and what the farmers are doing and what our scientists are doing.
So one of the things I've been mostly focused on is trying to tie the two together a bit,
trying to get people coming to understand what we're doing in the greater world,
outside the crypto world.
And I mean, I understand in the beginning, you have to, you know, get together with yourselves,
figure out what you're doing, how you're going to set up the governance,
the structures and everything for this whole movement within your own people
before you can do too much reaching out.
But I'm thinking that's getting close now to being able to do that.
So I can't really go to most regenerative farmers and say,
let's get involved with the refi community or the GitCoin community or anything like that,
because they have no idea who you are, what you do, why you do it or anything.
And none of you ever come to any of our events.
So, or know much about what we're really doing, except what I try to explain.
So I think we need to get together a little bit more and get to know each other in both areas.
And, you know, the regen ag movements out there, pretty aware.
We have a new movie that just came out, Common Ground.
It's getting incredible response.
It's loaded with our farmers and our researchers in it.
It was just shown in D.C. for three days with event panels on it.
And it'll be on Netflix beginning of the year sometime.
It's the sequel to Kiss the Ground, if anybody watched that,
which had several bunch of millions of views over.
And it was released about three years ago, I think it was.
So, you know, it takes a little time.
I think the two movements need to understand each other and get together.
And then I think we can do more work together.
Amazing. I can't wait.
And a friend of mine told me about another amazing movie about regeneration.
It was something like about Small Pharma.
I don't remember really the name, the title of it.
I will look for it and maybe share it with you.
Well, Kiss the Ground, that movie that came out a few years, three years ago or so,
that's available on any of the streaming platforms.
If you have any of the streamings, whether it be Netflix or Prime.
I have seen Kiss the Ground, but this was another movie, something about the small farm or the tiny farm or something like that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that was done on a farm in California.
I think it's the littlest farm something.
We have a bunch of them, actually.
You know, there's actually quite a few over the past five or six years, movies relating to soil and regenerative agriculture and stuff that are out there.
But that's a good sign.
And it means that people are starting to understand that maybe there's the right direction to go.
And this movie can be so inspiring for a thousand people.
It can really give a lot of value to the movement.
Yeah.
And I wonder when we'll see you in a movie.
Absolutely.
I'm thinking, I'm sitting here thinking of Fellini, Antonioni, Pasolini.
You know, you guys got some serious, serious filmmakers.
Roar Walker today is superb.
We're big time movie people here.
And one of our projects is integrating with culture.
My partner here is a rock musician.
We're all musicians and artists.
And we are trying to integrate with, you know, fiction writers, theater, film, culture, getting culture much more environmental.
I keep trying to remember this book I read, Robot and Friend or something.
It was a solar punk novel.
You know, I looked up solar punk.
It said, read this novel.
So I did read it, a sci-fi novel.
It was really good.
And it is, culture can just have massive impact.
One, I had a few points for Ed.
One is that we, when we discuss greenhouse gases, there's either the simple version for the people or there's the complicated version for the experts.
And the simple version, we just stick with carbon dioxide.
Something like 76% of the greenhouse effect is from carbon dioxide.
And so for the simple version, we just, to keep it simple, we just discuss carbon dioxide.
We know nitrous oxide is a really, I can't remember all the details.
You know, Sal remembers all the details.
But the nitrous oxide and methane and all of them, there are all kinds of other greenhouse.
Water itself, of course, is a greenhouse gas.
But to keep it simple for the general public, we just stick to discussing carbon dioxide.
So there's always a debate between the simple version and the complicated version for the experts.
So that's always territory we're perpetually in.
Another thing, Ed, I wanted to know if you had any science, if you went to school for science, or you just picked all this stuff up.
Well, I wanted to, I had, I showed my sheep at major shows.
And I knew many of the deans at the ag schools that, you know, the big ones, the Penn States, the Michigan States, all those.
They wanted me to come to school there.
But they weren't studying soil.
They told me they were going to teach me how to run a feedlot or a CAFO.
But in your own education, did you study much science?
I did it all on my own.
Yeah, so that's amazing, man.
You clearly have a natural, you know, scientific mindset, no doubt.
And then all this stuff you have been working on all these decades is all now coming into the mainstream.
You know, the mainstream scientists are all getting terribly interested in these issues.
Another thing, yeah, the difference between the time I worked with, well, you're from Massachusetts, John Oliver.
And back in the early 80s, I was working with him because, you know, I was already developing the potential that we could do this.
And so he had me write up a report, 20-something page of report, and we invited a bunch of USDA people and academic people.
And I gave a presentation to them, and they all pretty much fell asleep and then went home.
So, you know, when I used to talk about soil to, you know, back in those days to academia or agronomists or whatever, they just, they were, we were crazy.
It has no potential.
It's come a long way.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
You mentioned reversing the certification, which I think we've got to sort of promote over there in a club, get them talking about that.
I know our guy Adam in Cameroon, he goes up to northern Cameroon and says the desert is sneaking in in the north of his country.
Like, you can just see it, you know, mile by mile encroaching on the land.
And literally the available farmland will shrink because the deserts are getting bigger.
It's very simple.
And it is a major problem of a hotter world.
There will be more deserts and there will be less, you know, farmland.
It's very simple and clear.
That's the pressure that's being put on to cut down forests and rainforests because people are losing the farmland to desertification or just degradation.
In general, I mean, all of our farmland is degraded and it has been.
And now we're reversing that.
But the biggest way to take pressure off of cutting down trees and rainforests is bringing our lands that used to be green, even in the southwest of the United States.
A lot of that land, you know, we look at it and we think of it as this sort of desolate, arid environment.
And it didn't used to be.
Well, this solar pump vision does offer solutions that you strip it down.
You keep it simple.
You keep it efficient and optimized.
You're not decadent and baroque and complicated.
You keep everything simple, stripped down.
You know, you slap that solar panel on your cottage and you go out and have a garden in the back and it's all quite efficient.
And it all works with the environmentalists, with the green world.
You're lucky, Ed, in your business that food is a necessity.
And many of the other businesses, like mining, we have lots of people that just want to get rid of all mining totally.
You can't persuade them that a little mining is good.
But nobody disagrees that we have to have food.
So at least you don't have anybody telling you that we don't need any food.
Because in many of the other areas of civilization, like a lot of them just want to get rid of all the automobiles totally.
And, you know, it's tough to argue with them when, you know.
Well, Alex, even with food, there are people who argue.
The vegans, people like eating plant-based.
So if you're raising cows, I'm not happy.
So there is always, I mean.
Yeah, but not all the food.
Some of them want to get rid of all the cars and all the mining.
I will tell you that we have one billion cows on this planet.
You know, the global herd is one billion.
And that is unsustainable.
We cannot.
Yeah.
I'll disagree.
The funny thing is that.
You disagree.
Okay.
Well, we can get into it.
The role of a ruminant in nature is incredibly important.
That's how we're reversing desertification.
Right.
I'm simply saying in the large picture, we need to reduce the global cow herd.
A billion is too big.
Not that we got to get rid of them.
We need to reduce the number.
When you look at the tropical rainforest, 41% of deforestation is done to make more land for cattle.
That simply has to stop and reverse.
And I see no way forward without reducing the global cattle herd.
Remove those cows where they shouldn't be, which is in the rainforest.
Other than there is some, you know, some bit to ruminants being in wooded lands.
That's like silvio pastures and stuff.
Sure.
I mean, they are there.
But what they need to be is instead of in CAFOs or instead of in rainforests, they need to be reversing their vertification.
They need to be going back on the grasslands that are natural grasslands that they need to maintain.
And that's what we're doing.
So we actually are going to need more for a while to restore those, get those grasslands growing green again, because it takes the ruminant to do that first succession of plants in an ecosystem to get that so that it can be green again.
Then we can start planting more tree crops, more other crops.
We can have a diversity of plants and animals again.
But ruminants are the crucial thing.
And what I'll say is the reason why cows have been, you know, attacked so much when it's not the cow's problem, it's the greed of people's problem.
Most true.
Is the money.
Once they figure out how they could create protein isolates out of soy and other crops that are also damaging and not healthy products, soy is not a particularly healthy product to have in large amounts in our diet.
But once they figured out they could do the potential for a few companies to own the production of protein of the world, man, the only way we can do that is to make cows as evil as we can.
Because I have several issues with a cow's one is I'm completely gung ho on reforesting the world, getting our three trillion trees back.
I'm completely gung ho on that issue.
And then the other is the question of wealth inequality.
You know, 80 percent of the global population is not eating any of that beef.
I don't have the numbers in front of me.
We get Sal working on it or Rascal X or something.
But, you know, you can you know perfectly well that the top 20 percent of the globe is eating all the beef and it just adds on to the wealth inequality.
And that top 20 percent is also causing all this climate change and most of the plastics pollution.
You know, so there is that issue as well.
And the thing with these issues is we can get into it.
There's no right answer right now in two minutes.
We'll get into it this week and next week and the next year and on and on.
And we can't get the specific numbers of cattle.
It just seems to me to glow.
Yes.
If we move them away from the rainforest, I would be happy and not really care what the number of the herd is.
You're not actually going to move them by by by physically.
You're going to kill them in sight and then raise cattle in a different location and persuade the financial people that that is the plan and their politicians.
But it's certainly an issue we get into repeatedly and will get into.
The to convince him.
Yeah.
It's the pastoralist around the world, which are some of the poorest people that are suffering the most and having to migrate now because because of desertification, because they just weren't they didn't understand exactly.
And they're overpressured in their grazing.
So those are the people that really need to be focused on in this reversing desertification.
And I want to say I want to thank everybody for having me up here.
I've got to take off in two minutes.
I've got another space I've got to be on.
But I appreciate talking with everybody and all the good work, Solar Punk and Alex are doing and everybody in this room.
I recognize a lot of the people here and just keep working on it, keep discussing it, keep debating it.
You know, we don't have to fight about it, but we need to we need to really talk about these things and learn together and come up with the best ideas out of it.
And so thank you so much for joining the space and that we are going to transition in a couple of minutes.
Maybe, Umberto, you can help me to do the transition, the GitCon Community Radio every hour transition to another space.
And so if you are interested to come to the next space, we'll share the link in the Jumbo train in a minute.
Umberto, can you hear me?
Yeah, and Alex, it was beautiful to have you here.
Very cool.
Great, great to talk to you and meet you.
That's excellent.
Thanks.
Yeah, thank you so much.
And Umberto, can you help me to transition?
Otherwise, I have to leave.
Oh, let me.
I'll leave the space.
Umberto, please keep it up.
And all the listeners, be patient.
We will share in the Jumbotron in a second, the new space.
Hello, hello, everyone.
Do you see the Jumbatron in the part of the pin messages above the other space?
If you see it, please put a thumbs up.
If you don't see it, thumbs down.
It should be there.
If you see it, you can click there and jump into the next conversation to the next space.
There's a space about it.
There's a computer that processes transactions, information, validations of different blockchains.
And maybe you can keep up there.
And you can click on computers for validating blockchains towards action within the cities.
So please join.
I will end this space in one minute.
Okay.
Space, it's already running.
Matthew, William, Sheila, Julius, Juan, Kawaugumba, please join the space.
Julius, Kawabumba, William, please join the space that is above.
I will close this space in 30 seconds.
Hey, Cheyenne, welcome.
But we need to move to the other one, to the one that is pink on the top.
Please join that one, please.
Cheyenne, move to the other one.
Cool.
Thank you, everyone.
Have a good one.
See you in the next space.
See you in the next space.
