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#GMOpolis - How to be a business, Man: "Professional Network Partners"
Recorded: Sept. 26, 2023 Duration: 0:59:46Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'm having some technical difficulties over here.
Cool, cool. It's all good.
I'm going to try and start.
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Can you guys hear me now?
Yes, sir.
All right.
So, did you guys get started or did you just sit here and mute while I got my stuff figured out?
I couldn't hear anything.
Oh, that's weird.
No, I was just hanging out.
I wasn't sure what the technical difficulty was, so I just was here.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Cool, cool.
How are we doing this morning?
That's real good, sir.
That's real good.
I'm, uh, yeah.
Just, uh, just getting up and at it, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Wired up and fired up.
Well, I mean, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Totally.
Hey, you know what, Toad?
I appreciate your honesty.
Your honest tone.
I'm an honest Toad.
An honest Toad with an honest tone.
My goodness.
Honesty is the best policy.
Oof.
True.
So, Brother Bear Me, how are you today?
Not bad.
And I have a new hat.
So, it's good.
Went to Disneyland, and the hat reads,
Meetings will continue until morale improves.
So, I'm here to help.
That is fantastic.
Wow.
What wonderful advice.
I never thought about that.
Like, if the people aren't happy,
you could just keep beating them
until their morale improved.
That is,
that is like a master class in management.
Wow.
If you work at a kink shop, maybe.
I'm working for a kink shop.
I'm going to be speaking at TED.
Not TEDx, just TED.
And, you know, this hat really gives me credibility.
So, you're welcome.
Not TEDx.
TED.
Yes, I'm here with my groundbreaking research
and management theory.
When the peons are not happy,
simply beat them until the morale improves.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Once again,
even with your new word,
peons,
this all sounds better for a kink shop.
I don't know.
As long as there are freelancers inside of there,
I think I'm okay with it.
I wonder how you would get referrals
if you ran a leather shop.
How would you get referrals?
That's really a good question I have.
You know,
it was...
That's how the whole community works, bro.
That's...
That's a fair point.
We didn't plan this,
but it's not a bad tee-up.
I mean, like,
come on now.
You know?
It's like,
how to get a referral.
It's like,
get taken there by someone who's trusted.
Okay,
well,
how do you get taken there
by someone who's trusted?
Well,
I mean,
someone who's actively in the community
is going to make you a part of the community.
That's really nice.
I like that quite a lot.
Yep, yep.
That stuff works.
The old professional networking partners.
If I remember correctly,
last time that we were talking about
professional networking partners,
we were talking about
the old wishlist and spirit letter,
which is a really great way to get referrals.
It'd be funny to use that in a leather shop.
I wonder how that would work.
Because, I mean,
how we were wishlisting and spirit lettering
was, like,
you know,
show the person you're asking the referral for,
like,
the list of clients that you want,
which, I mean,
I guess you could do,
like,
in a leather shop.
But then it was, like,
having, like,
this letter of recommendation
that they signed.
And it was
that letter of recommendation
that was really making me crack up,
like,
in terms of
this new leather shop
that we are talking about.
If you can imagine,
it's just, like,
you preemptively write
these letters of recommendation
about your product.
And then, like,
you show the client,
like,
hey, like,
do you like this letter of recommendation?
Does it embrace the spirit
and body of your experience
here with us today?
And they review the letter
and it would say something like,
you know,
hey,
when I was first looking
to get tied up,
I didn't know where
to go
to find
the tools necessary
to effectively
restrain
myself
and those
whom
I tie up
as well.
little did I know
that
Proctopus's
leather shop
going to be
the place
that I could find
all that I needed.
boy,
when I walked
through the doors
at Brock's Leather,
it was
truly amazing.
I was greeted
with
every leather
option imaginable,
every restraint
imaginable,
and a quality
craftsmanship
as well.
You know,
from leather straps
steel,
metal
hooks
loops.
Wow.
I was able
to restrain
my partners
I would
recommend
Brock's Leather Shop
to anybody.
Sincerely,
yours truly,
Toad Medicine.
that's pretty much
how you get it.
Yeah,
I think
I would
I mean,
I'm just imagining
Brock's Leather Shop
See,
I'd go
to socialize,
like to meet people,
right?
You know,
because how are you
going to figure out
what leather you need?
I mean,
Brock's going to give
some really good advice,
but you just kind of,
you know,
strike up conversations
with people
and be like,
hey,
what worked for you
and what best
in which positions
and,
you know,
with whom?
And then,
you know,
like this is where
I'm going to meet
all my new best friends.
Brock's Leather.
I envision
a training course
where we teach people
who have not
learned how to tie yet.
How to tie.
It's like a free
45-minute session.
Not free.
Not free.
Never mind.
I messed up.
I messed up the free part,
but it's like a 45-minute session.
And it's taught
on X spaces.
Is that correct?
it's private.
subscribers only.
You know,
you guys know
about X subscribers,
right?
Like,
you can do
the whole subscriber
thing now
and how many people
pay to follow
your account
or whatever,
which is,
I don't know,
I guess it's kind
of interesting.
You could host
spaces just for
subscribers,
which I think
is interesting.
It's not a bad idea.
Not a bad idea.
Yeah,
yeah.
How many people
do you subscribe to
if you started
kidding yesterday?
Only two.
Yeah,
I subscribed
to Elon Musk
to go to
a private
Twitter spaces
because he had
a private
Twitter spaces
for his
subscribers.
It was cool.
He's in there
talking about
some cool
SpaceX stuff.
And the other
one I
subscribed to
of course,
our boy
Gabriel Hanks
because,
I mean,
he's a friend
of Opolis
and a friend
of Opolis
is a friend
indeed.
just two.
That's fair.
Those are two
pretty legit
follows.
I'm not
going to lie.
They're
subscriptions.
I don't
subscribe to
anyone.
I don't
subscribe to
no man.
How about
you,
Jeremy?
Do you have
any subscriptions
on the old
I don't.
Maybe I
should.
Maybe I
should start
subscribing.
I don't
think I've
curated my
Twitter X
whatever very
well.
And I still
have a lot
of people
on it that
I was
following in
the past
that I
need to
start muting
so that my
feed is a
little bit
better.
It's part of
the reason
why I don't
use it
very much.
Yeah,
I think
events would
be the one
reason that I
would probably
end up doing
that, like
special Twitter
spaces or stuff
like that.
As opposed
to just
like, you
know, content,
regular content.
But anyway,
should we
continue the
conversation about
professional network
partnerships?
Individably.
I do feel that
freelancers can
get more out
of this.
So if
somebody has
never been
involved with
a professional
network partnership,
maybe they don't
even know what
that means.
Can you explain
what a
professional network
is, and
maybe some
examples, if
they've never
heard the
term professional
network, maybe
they have
probably heard
some examples
of things that
are professional
networks.
Indeed.
a professional
network partner
is a partner
who networks
with you
and is a
professional.
I mean, like,
sometimes the
name is
like what
it is, you
know.
This is
simply just
like, you
know, building
a network of
professionals that
share actual
business with
you.
Some people
refer to them
as centers of
influence or
spheres of
influence.
Yeah, it's
just that.
Leverage,
sells.
Okay, but
technically a
professional
network is a
network of
any professionals,
but for
example, you
might think of
a chamber of
commerce or
the realtors.
What is it
called?
The real
national
association
of realtors.
There we go.
Like associations
and stuff
like that.
Right?
So, I
mean, yes,
the word is
what it is,
but you
still need to
draw out what
that means.
That's
very helpful
over here.
Well, I
mean, honestly,
like, I think a
lot of people do
think of like the
chambers of
commerce or
like.
the way that
I've like most
affected was I
was doing B2B
sales and I
was just like
brokering people's
insurance.
And the way
that it would
work is like when
I would be meeting
a client, I
would just start
to like pay
attention to
the like the
other businesses
that they were
associated with,
you know,
like, um,
I love so
water supply.
And I think
it was like
Kenny, Texas
was the,
like the first
client where
like really
worked for me.
Um, this
was a little
like local
like water
provider.
They just
like provided
water, you
know, um,
to like their
community and
like, that's
great.
You know, they
had like 18
employees and
I started doing
their benefits,
but like they
were a smaller
time shop and
they had a
calendar in
their room for
their uniform
provider.
There, it was
clear that they
had some kind of
relationship with
this trucking
company because
there was like,
you know, like a
sign or like a,
like a post, you
know, a notebook
or something from
this trucking
company.
Um, it was, it
was examples like
this, like, like
I noticed like,
oh, like this
trucking company's
logo is here.
And like, I
wrote that down
on my list and
like, I noticed
like, oh, like
this uniform
company, there's
like a calendar
in the manager's
office.
Like, why would
the manager have
a calendar from
the uniform
company if they
weren't a client
of the uniform
company?
You know?
So, here I am
out here, I'm
talking to all
the little water
workers about
their benefits and
just kind of like
racking it up.
You know, like
you're making
small talk
conversation with
them and you're
like, oh, you
guys, um, don't
have your own
trucks.
And, you know,
like, I'd be
talking to each
employee about
their benefits.
So, I would just
like sleuth on
the business.
I'd be like, oh,
so like, how's it
work?
Like, you know,
what kind of
positions are
available, right?
And, like, the
workers are telling
you about like their
positions and I'm
like, yeah, you
know, sometimes like
when I'm at shops
like this, like,
they'll have like
guys who do
these roles and
they're like, oh,
yeah, no, like we
contract that out.
I'm like, oh,
that's funny.
Like, who do y'all
use?
I, I have some,
you know, clients
in that space.
Um, and the
employees are like,
oh, well, we use
these people for
these things.
And it was just
like all of the
employees were
giving me like
little nuggets and
I was just like
noticing things in
the office and
I don't know,
like I had a good
idea of businesses
that this business
was associated
with.
I just have like
this list of
businesses that I'm
like, oh, okay,
this business kind
of knows these
people.
And then what
happens is, um,
and this is just
like something like
I used to do is I
would always set a
review meeting, um,
when I'm bringing
on a new client,
like part of my new
client onboarding,
you know, um,
was to set a review
meeting for a month
out, like after
they'd been a client
for a minute, you
know, um, I would,
I would do this
like literally like
when I was closing
the case, like when
I'm closing the case,
the case is like,
oh, okay, like if
we're going to do
business, what are
the things I need to
give you?
And I would tell
them like, Hey,
there's, there's
four things that I
need.
Um, thing number
one is I need a
date, like a month
away from today where
I can sit down with
you, Mr.
Business Owner and
review, like if we
successfully entered,
you know, into the
strategy, right?
Business owners like,
okay, cool.
Like we could review
progress like on this
day.
And I'm like, sweet.
Now that I've got a
review date with you,
like, oof, got a lot
of work to do.
I'm going to need to,
you know, meet with
all the employees
before then when
you need to get
these documents
signed and also
getting me to talk
to someone and
billing to make
sure that we're
like, you know,
deducting premiums
and sending them to
the carrier.
And business
centers like sweet.
Sweet.
So it was like, um,
I would always start
with like, uh, I
call it like book
ending.
Like I would set the
review meeting for
the thing I wanted to
get done before I set
the thing I wanted to
get done because it
gave like a timeline,
like a deadline or
which I must have.
Um, and I would just
like all of these
names on a piece of
paper.
I'm like, these guys
have to know.
But then here I am,
I'm like watching into
my, uh, like my review
meeting and I'm like,
Hey, Mr. Employer,
you know, like when
we first met, you
know, you were
dealing with these
challenges and you
had said that like,
if I was able to
deliver, you know,
above, you know,
like above belief
results, like, you
know, if I was able
to actually provide
value to the problem
we identified, then
you would be down for
giving me some
referrals and
employers like, yeah,
sure would be
happy to give you
some referrals.
And this is like the
response you get like
really often when it
comes to referrals is
like, if you're going
to go and ask your
client or like your
network for referrals,
most people are down
to give you the
referral.
Like, especially if
you've done good work,
like most, most folks
are down to give you a
good referral.
The thing is, is, is
that most people do
not ever ask for a
referral.
And this is why they
never get a referral.
And it's, it's, it's
more than just like
asking for a referral.
is the problem is like
whenever, whenever I
would ask a business
owner, like, Hey, can
I get a referral?
Like I put that
business owner into
like fight or flight
mode, right?
Like they know so much
about the thing I do
and what I do.
Like when I was talking
to the owner of the
water supply, like all
that that dude knows is
that I help small
businesses do employee
benefits.
He knows his problem
was workers'
compensation.
And he's like, damn,
like my workers'
comp rates are getting
wrecked.
And I'm like, Hey,
let's add this other
type of insurance so
people can claim there
so that like they don't
claim on the workers'
comp.
It'll help your work
comp out.
He's like, yeah, it
makes a lot of sense.
It makes a lot of
sense.
Um, anyway, it's like
the, the point is, is
like all that he knows
is that I have small
businesses out there
workers' comp problems.
You know, I do so many
other things.
I help small businesses
out with turnover
problems, with healthcare
problems, with, you
know, rising costs in
their healthcare, with,
you know, uh, benefits
administration issues.
I don't just work with
blue collar.
Like I don't work just
with small businesses.
Um, like there's a lot
of things about my
business that this
employer doesn't know.
So when I go and I ask
that employer for a
referral, like I am
absolutely like racking
his brains because he's
got just like a, a, a, a
small little scope of
knowledge of which he
knows actually what I do.
just because he has like
limited, you know,
knowledge on what I do
versus what he does.
And like next up is now
that he has this limited
knowledge, he has to
apply it to every person
that he's ever met.
Like literally since the
dawn of mankind, he's
just like, oh, okay,
cool.
Like Toad needs a
referral.
Let me stop and think.
Hmm.
Who do I know who
fits this little narrow
bucket of things that I
know about Toad?
Brother Baramy's got his
hand up.
To refer a guy over.
Brother Baramy, talk to
Yeah.
I just wanted to kind
of jump in, but before
we, we lose some of the
wisdom you drop in, um,
to recap, I think some
of the stuff that you're
saying right now is
initially like you have a
system in place of how
you want to approach
people in a forward,
but I want to use the
word delicate way, but
like there, there is a
construction here of, I
want to add value to
them.
I want to find out what
they actually need.
I want to apply how I
can help them to what
they actually need.
And I want to then
what?
Ask for a referral.
Right.
But the way you're
talking about asking for
referral is very, very,
um, again, uh, intentional,
I guess, mindful.
And I think that's like
kind of an important
point.
As you said, a lot of
people don't ask for
referrals.
The amount of, the
amount of time that I've
personally not asked for
referrals has been, uh,
too much, too much.
So I like that you're,
you're constructing,
making this a really
important way.
Now, what you're just
getting to at the end
here, and tell me what,
what I've missed there,
but what you're getting
to at the end here that
you've been talking about
is the difficulty of them
understanding what you
do, because you provide a
number of different
services and these
different services, they
might not understand all
of them.
So they might not be
aware of, you know, who
they should be referring you
to, correct?
Correct, Amundo.
Brother Bractibus.
So, I, one thing that I
just wanted to point out
about your little, like,
uh, like, you went off
there for a minute, giving
us some great nuggets of
truth, but I think that one
of the most impactful
things for me in the, in
the world of asking for
referrals was the sleuthing,
was the, like, the more,
I mean, every time I have a
conversation, of course,
you're having genuine
conversations with these
people, but ironically,
like, every time you have
conversations that give you
more insight into their
world, the closer that
comes to a genuine
conversation anyway.
So, having genuine
conversations with people
opens up their realms of
influence and people who
might work as a good
referral later.
And then, yeah, to bring it
back to where we kind of just
left off, you know, it's that
old, it's that old thing
where if you ask somebody to
name three things in their
refrigerator on the spot,
honestly, if you're looking
them straight in the face,
most people can't do it.
But then you go, well, do
you have ketchup?
And they're like, yes.
Do you have mustard?
Well, yes.
Do you have mayonnaise?
Well, do you have milk?
Yes.
Okay, well, there you go.
There's three things that you
have in your refrigerator,
you know?
So, I guess I'll toss it
back over to you with that
one.
Just the idea that something
in your mental refrigerator
doesn't mean you can
necessarily access it
immediately.
and having somebody just
go, hey, how about, you
know, I saw.
Is it me that's breaking up
or is that, is that
Brock's best?
I broke up once before.
I don't know if I do, Leo,
with that.
Okay.
So, can you sharpen up
then, or wait a time to get
back.
So, can you sharpen up
then what, what are the best
ways to get them to know,
as Brock is saying, like,
you know, asking these
questions so that they're a
little bit more aware of
what you offer based on
their own needs.
But can you sharpen up, like,
the best way to ask for
who they might refer to?
Well, I mean, it's like a
two-part process, you know?
Like, one is this, is what
we call the wish list.
This is where you make a
list of clients whom you
would like for that
individual to refer to you.
One could make a list of
actual names of actual
clients, like, that you're
trying to reach out to.
Or one could make a list of
personas that that client may
know that you want to reach
out to.
Either way, like, what you're
ending up with is just this
list of, here's people I would
like a referral from.
And you just want that list
to be intelligent.
Like, go to their Yelp page.
Like, I don't care what you
You find businesses that are
associated with that client.
And you make a list of those
businesses.
And then after that, here you
are in your review meeting.
And in your review meeting,
you're just like, hey, like,
when I first contacted you,
this is a problem.
It's now no longer a problem.
And, like, if I've brought
value to your company, then I
would like to ask you for a
referral.
And they're like, hey, that's
okay.
But then, like, they're back in
this spot that I was talking
about where it's just like they
have no idea what that is
supposed to be for you.
They don't know your business
like you know your business.
So, this is the part where you
slide across your wish list and
your spirit letter.
And you're just like, hey, like,
I wrote this spirit letter.
I guess that's a thing we haven't
really unpacked.
A spirit letter is a letter of
recommendation that you write for
yourself from the client's
perspective.
And then, you ask the client,
like, hey, if this spirit or if
this letter embraces the spirit
and body of, like, our experience
together, then all that I would
ask is that you take it, put it on
your letterhead, and sign it.
And then, this will help me, like,
this will suffice as, like, the
referral, right?
Like, this is all I need.
Because if you make it scary for the
client and you're, like, asking them
for referrals, they imagine that they
need to, like, open their phone and
call their friends for you and ask
them if they would like to meet with
you.
And you need to, like, remove that
friction, right?
Like, you need to be like, hey, no,
you don't have to call your friends or
text them or, like, get too involved.
Like, just approve this letter.
And I've already done the work of
writing out this letter of
recommendation.
And, like, the letter of recommendation
is just nothing but the truth.
Like, you just write down the
experience you had with the client and
then you ask them to sign it.
So, what you're saying is, first
things first, we do some research and
the research is going to be, hey,
what are other businesses that might
benefit from us that are associated
with this client that we've already
added value to?
And then we say, hey, as we've
already talked about, helped you out.
Now that I've helped you out and done
all of that, I asked if I could, you
know, if I could get a referral to
other people that you might help.
Well, I came up with this list.
Here's this.
I'd like to put it on your letterhead.
So, you have these very specific
steps, right?
And then just propose that to this
person.
And this person then ideally would sign
this referral and we would take it
over.
Is that correct?
Yeah, you don't necessarily get them
to sign the list.
You get them to sign like this letter
thing.
And now that you have this letter
thing, you're like, great.
Thanks for signing this letter.
Hey, I'm just looking for some people
to take this letter to.
And I've created this list of, you
know, clients I'm actively trying to
get in touch with.
Like, do you know anyone on this list?
And then you show them your wish list,
right?
So, you're sitting here with like a
signed spirit letter, like a signed
letter of recommendation.
And then you're just like, hey, like, do
you know anyone on this list?
And they're like looking at this list
and they're like, whoa, these are all
businesses I know, you know, like, hey,
this is the place where we get our
uniforms from.
And this is the trucking company that
we, you know, use when we need, you
know, stuff moved around.
And they're like, yeah, I know these
people.
And I'm like, fantastic.
Well, then like what I'm going to do is
I'm going to personally walk this
this letter in to each one of these.
Like, I will hand deliver this letter
to each one of these.
And like you promised like this, you
know, degree of, you know, personal
touch and clients happy.
They sit there and they sign, you
know, they circle names on the.
They circle names on like the list that
you know, and that's pretty much it.
Like.
That's pretty much it.
Like you've removed all the friction.
You've made it so easy.
They've not had to think about like, who
do I need to refer to this person and
what do I need to say to make the
referral like happen?
Right.
Like you've made both of those things
that are the hardest thing about giving
a referral ridiculously easy.
And what's really nice is like, you just
have to now like go deliver this letter
and you're like, hey, you know,
let's just over at LSO Water Supply.
They were having an issue with workers
comp.
I was able to implement this strategy
and help them out.
Just wanted to drop off this letter from
Chad over there at the water supply.
You can see like, you know, he really
thought we did a bang up job for him.
I didn't know if I could get 19 minutes
on your calendar.
You know, that's all I needed with LSO
Water Supply to really get to the
bottom of of their pains.
Right.
Like, when can I meet with you?
Tuesday or Thursday better?
And like, that's that's it.
And it was just amazing how much better
cases went when you came in on a
referral.
Like there was way less cold calling.
There was way less trust and rapport
building.
There was way less like getting to know
the client before they really told you
like what they need, you know, just
because you were already writing like
that credibility of the previous guy.
So there's that.
Next step would be to talk about like
spirit letters and how to go about
building the spirit letter.
I've been kind of ranting, though.
How y'all doing out there?
No, I like it.
I like it a lot.
Matter of fact, I think this might be
one of my favorite topics that we talk
about.
And, you know, it's something, you know,
anytime you talk to the guys who are
really good at something, you'll notice
that they kind of just kind of like
downplay it.
But then once you get a little bit
good, right, you can kind of hear
all the things.
I can start to hear all the things
because I've done referrals tons of
times, but I've never used the
dream list spirit, spirit letter
concept, right?
I've done it in different ways.
And I don't think that I've ever done
it in a way that could possibly match
the dream list and spirit letters way.
Right.
Like, it's just automatically obvious
to me that this is a better system
than any system that I've ever used
in the past, even though, you know,
I've done the homework part of it.
I've, you know, had specific people.
I mean, I've had specific people in
mind to ask for in when I was asking
for referrals, but never in the
structured, simple way, the cutting out
of the of the crap and the and the
resistance, right, that you provide
when you give this this idea of
of dream lists and spirit letters.
So I really I really appreciate the
and there's little things that you do
that are quite important, like the
order of which you do things, right?
Like it's just if you don't, you
know, I guess the more you do this,
the more you'll realize like how to
take each step and to be smooth with
it, right? Like if you hand over the
the dream list before you show them
the spirit letter, you're going to
create resistance. For instance, you
don't know that yet. If you've never
done this, you don't know why either,
but it will.
You know, so like, and I mean, I know
that and I can see that, but that's
only because of the amount of times
I've asked for referrals. So yeah, I
really, I really appreciate this
whole concept. So yeah, keep going,
bro. Keep preaching.
LFG. Yeah, you are correct. There are
like a lot of finer finesse things.
Like, yeah, get the letters signed.
Even now the letters signed, like, oh,
here's a list of people. Like, who
should we take it to? Yeah, that is
like, it's weird, man. Like there's a
lot of finer things about the system
that were just kind of like, it took
time to get there, you know?
Took time to get there for sure, for
sure. Anyways, think that...
Let's talk about building that spirit
letter, right? Like, I really
appreciate how you telling us the
story of the first time you heard the
time that you did that and like what
you made sure to include, which is so
simple, but also it's not. So what's
the, what's the honesty policy here?
Yeah, yeah. So the, um, the spirit
letter would be like this letter of
recommendation that I would write from
the client's perspective and
to cold call them when you first reached
out to them, like, how did it go? Then
you write the letter, right? And it's
like, hey, when Micah, Micah is my, um,
that's my web two name, you know? Hey,
when Micah first reached out to me, like
I told him I had no time for the
meeting and I completely brushed him
off. You just tell the truth, you know?
And then like you, you write the next
line, like boy, wasn't boy, am I glad
that Micah persistently followed up
with me over the course of the
following weeks.
Is that me rugging or is that, uh, Toad?
I think that's Toad.
Okay. Well, Toad, you're rugging just a
little bit. You might have to leave and
come back and we will invite you back.
I don't know if he even knows that he's
being rugged.
I might also be being rugged. Who knows?
Well, anyway, I guess we'll riff while
we wait on Toad to come back. But, uh,
yeah, I'm a big fan of this. Um, I think
one of the big things that, that Toad
often preaches and, and kind of the core
of, of what's being talked about here is
just the idea of having systems in place
in order to manage a lot of the
processes that you'd otherwise need. And
without intention and without having
these systems, you're running around kind
of hoping and, and a little bit on the
blind side of things. And, um, this is,
uh, something really important that we
see a lot of businesses just don't have,
you know, proper funnel management,
proper, um, asks proper, uh, you know,
just, just the way that we do
presentations. There's always a better
way to do it, but there's some real
quick shoring up your weaknesses that
can be put into place.
I also think that it's really important
to put systems in place just because it
removes cognitive load on you as, you
know, especially if we're freelancers,
you're the business owner, you're the
only one on the team, you know? So
removing anything you can do to, for
any cognitive load that you can, you
know, like every time I have a, I have a
client, I always go through the same
process with my client. Uh, my onboarding
quote unquote process is always going to
be the same. When I ask for referrals, I'm
always going to do that in the same
process. I'm always going to like,
um, back up. Um, you know, like it's
pretty obvious to me that Toad's dream
list and spirit letters system is better
than the system that I've used in the
past, which it's only adding like two
steps, but those two steps are removing
the cognitive load for the, uh, the
person you're getting referrals from the
current customer. Um, so yeah, I think
it's really powerful to be able to a
have a system in place, but then B, I
mean, and not only that, but if you have
a system in place and you see a system
that works better, a, it's going to be
easier to recognize what are the things
that are working better within that
system than the system I'm currently
implementing. Uh, cause if you just have
a mess on your hands and you're flying
by the seat of your pants, it's hard to
recognize, uh, like the, the individual
things that actually are making that
thing work. Cause what, all you'll see is
success and not success because that's
all you've ever experienced is either I'm
succeeding or I'm not succeeding because
that's what happens when you fly by the
seat of your pants. And I mean, that being
said, there are a lot of people that can
fly by the seat of their pants and see
success, but it's not the same type of
success that's easily recreated, which is
really what we want to do when we're
building a business. Toad, I have invited
you. Do I need to cancel the invite and
re-invite you? Anyway. So yeah, the thing
that I like about Toad's spirit letter idea
is, you know, the, the idea of line by
line being honest, that real, that first
line that he suggested there, which is
about where he started to cut up, cut out
earlier was like, when I first met Toad, I
was, or when I first met Micah, I was
really, uh, unsure and I really didn't feel
like I had the time. Man, am I glad that
Toad was persistent? So, you know, you, you,
you know, the first time because the first
line is true because the first couple of
times he called, they kind of slept you off
a little bit. Um, and you know, as long as
you're kindly putting into that into the
letter and it's honest, then they're not
going to have a problem with it being
there. And it actually gives you more
credibility because it shows you going
through the relationship process with
that client, which in turn is going to
let the referral envision themselves going
through that same process. It's really a
magic trick. I don't know if, if it's as
obvious to some people as it is to me, but
it's really a magic trick. Um, and uh, yeah,
so just the honesty of, of filling out
that letter and you know, if you're doing
it in an honest way, you've even, you even
create more rapport with the client that
you're, that you're asking for referrals
from, you know, in
the customer feels helped the, the, the
salesperson feels, you know, motivated and
like they did a really good job. They had
a good sale and then they've really
literally ruined the relationship with the
way and ruined the relationship, but like
we're starting to get you rugged a little
bit. Oh, yeah, it's just, it's just going
on. I think Twitter's just having some
problems today. I know they just
instituted all the, uh, the streaming
videos and things like that. Maybe they're,
uh, they're struggling, but what you're
saying is that this is a very, very
directed approach. It's not just asking
for referrals. It is, it is asking for
referrals in a way that removes, that
makes it both easy for the person you're
asking for the referral from, but also
easy for the person who is receiving the
referral to understand why there's value
in talking to you, which is pretty
important, right? Yeah. And it's, and it's
easier for you in the, in the whole process
of asking for referrals because you
systemized it for everyone. So it's a, it's a
win for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's
probably important to kind of note, you
know, what, what's being suggested here is a
very direct way of getting referrals. And if
someone doesn't see how this might apply
to them in their environment, one of the
big things you can do is just try to
extrapolate. And if you're not asking for
referrals, Hey, just ask, even if it's done
not as, as well as this asking for
referrals is better than, than not asking
for referrals. There, there are times in
my, in my career that I did not
intentionally ask for referrals as well as
I should have. And I'm sure it, it costs
me a lot. Um, but there are ways that we
can see doing this, even if it's not in, in
a direct B2B type of environment, even if
you're working directly with other types of
customers, um, where you can't necessarily
get, uh, you know, businesses they're
working with, you can just say, I mean, you
can just do the old ask, right. And that's
at least something better than maybe what
you've been doing, but these are, and I'm
sure they're token probably, if we can ever
get them back up, come up with some other
ideas of how that might work in other
respects as well. But the ask is the
important point.
Yeah, for sure. I see, I, well, I see
this as really a way, so let's say you're
going, you're a B2C, uh, business
primarily, right? Like, I don't know, let's
take a baker, for instance, you bake cakes
and you started baking cakes for your
friends and then friends went into your
friends' friends. And now you just pretty
much bake cakes for weddings, right? But
now you've opened up your own business and
it would be nice to get some consistent
business on a week-to-week basis, right?
You can use spirit letters and dream
lists with the clients that you already
have. First of all, actually, even before
that, let's say you're just trying to grow
your, your regular clientele. Well, your,
your spirit letter is no longer going to be
a card or a letter on, on, uh, you know,
their, their stock. What it's going to be
is a handwritten card, right? And then
you're going to send a handwritten card
to the people that the bride knows that
are getting married within the next summer
or within the next year. Right.
And we're breaking up again.
Let's give it just a second.
I missed, I missed what you were saying. So
bottom line, we're V2C, we're a bakery. We're
talking to, uh, we're talking to people. You
want more consistent clients and these
consistent clients, how do we find them?
We're right. Well, every single person
that, that you have come in is a new
opportunity to create dream lists and
spirit letters, right? Even if it's, you
know, uh, so we can either go, we can
either go with two things. Number one,
other people, you know, that are getting
married and now your spirit letter is
going to be a handwritten card that you're
going to send to all the brides to be
saying, I'm working with this person.
I would love to show you what we can do
for your wedding is to make your special
day as well. Um, then through that,
eventually you might run into some people
who work in offices or, uh, hotels or,
you know, the, the really it's, it's, it's
just, how can you creatively place your
item into any business? Right. And then,
because once you go from a B to C to a B
to B, there is a certain level of, um,
security that comes along with that. A B
to B client is usually a longer term client
and a more consistent client, you know? So,
you know, find, find those connections
and then through those connections and
just, you know, if I'm going to the
bride's best friend, it's going to be a
handwritten letter. If I'm going to the
groom's place of work, which happens to
be a, uh, a restaurant, right? I'm going
to do it on some, some business letterhead.
So it's going to look a little bit
different depending on who your thing
is, but you have to be creative enough
in order to, uh, I guess, uh, just make
it, make it unique in your own and make
it your own, you know?
And, and while I do think that it's
really important, one of the, that, that's,
uh, you know, something that, that's
brought up a lot is that writing letters
can be really great getting in front of
people as we have so much social media
going on. It's worth bringing up how
important it is to deal with social
media and how this can be used with
social media. For instance, something
that, uh, I need to do with, with Laura
actually for our, our kind of side
business, we work a lot of Medicare
clients, um, just people who are, who
need help with Medicare, right? And, and
one thing that we can do is directly just
have some of our people post on
Facebook. Hey, if you have questions
about, you know, here's who helped me
and everything else. And there are ways
that we construct that to make, to make
it a little bit better, but just the
exposure in the first place is really
what's kind of important there on, on
how to do this, um, in, in that digital
way, effectively too. Uh, if Toad's not
back, which he might be, is he back?
Baby, I'm back.
Sweet. Uh, but yeah, I don't know if
you have, um, if, if you have any
information on how people might be able
to post, uh, online as well and, or, and
ways that you might, uh, that you think
might be better for like B2C type of
environments like Brock was talking
about.
Yeah, I think that like, it's the same
sauce. It's just like in a different
place. And what I mean is like, the thing
that they're confused about is what to
say and where to say it. And you just
want to make those things easy for them.
Like if you're trying to do a social
thing, then it's like, oh, okay. You
know, don't do the letter, right? Just
like, like if you run your thing
completely on Twitter, then you want
Twitter posts, you know, where like
TikTok or, you know, Instagram or
Facebook or like whatever. It's just
like, Hey, yeah. Like, you know, whenever
I do a good job, I always ask clients
for a Facebook post and like, is it
cool if I ask you for that? Um, all
right, sweet. Hey, you know, I've, I've
written this little blurb up that I feel
embraces our spirit of a spirit and body
of our relationship together. Um, Hey,
like if you can embrace this and would
you do the favor of pulling out your
Facebook and like posting it right now?
And they're like, sure. And like, there
you are with them, making sure they get
the tags and everything right. And they
already have words to say and cover the
things that need to be said. Like
whatever it is, the thing that you're
reducing is the friction to accomplish it.
And that's like them having the words
to say, give them the words, literally
write your own recommendation, give it
to them and ask them if it embraces, you
know, the spirit and body of y'all's
relationship. Um, and then, yeah, like,
Hey, where, where to say it like on this
letterhead, sign it or post it now,
please like where, where to talk about
it, like show them the list of people
who you want them to, you know, review
and circle who they know or where to,
where to talk about it, like ask them to
post it, you know, to the group that you
want it in or like whatever. But you know,
you're, you're just trying to reduce that
friction. If you give them words and tell
them where to say those words, then all
they have to do is be a big fan of you.
They don't have to also be your business
strategist and figure out like, you know,
like what, what's important, what ought to
be said and like whom ought to hear it.
So I would say just like take the same,
the same spirit of the system and just
apply it to wherever, you know, like
wherever you want it. Get more referrals
kids, your business will grow. That's
pretty much that. I mean, like in, and
like my first year of like, you know,
trying to acquire business clients, I got
26 new business clients and I would say
like seven or eight of them were like
people who like I cold called and like
developed a relationship with via cold
calling and like the rest of them, you
know, the other 18 of them, they came
through some kind of warm, you know, warm
referrally like sense. And if you think
about that, I mean, good Lord, like would
I even be here today if I was not asking
for referrals? Like I would have made, you
know, you know, two thirds as much money
like, sorry, one third as much money, right? I
would have lost like 60 plus percent of
my income. Like if I wasn't asking for
referrals. So it definitely works. If you
want to be happy, ask for referrals. I
don't know. Those are my thoughts, fellas.
That's the last few minutes of the space.
What you got? Good. Good song there. Good
song, sir. A classic. Yeah. Classic. I need
to dip shortly, but bottom line to sum
this up, be intentional about what you
do. Asking referrals is better than not
asking referrals. Being intentional about
asking referrals and reducing the workload
on yourself and the people that you are
asking for referrals from is the way to
go. LFG. That's that.
this thing I consider.
You're not asking for
help, see, then just as good as you take
about your job, too, to crash and
move, because it does take a little bit of
mytone, but just why is there going with it?
And such as distinguishing food or
JOHN WILL I WANT WITH YOU.
