Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Good MEWerning 🐱 Seamless onboarding to crypto
Recorded: Aug. 28, 2025 Duration: 0:49:42Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Jim, everybody, can you hear me?
Got you loud and clear at this end.
All right, I'm going to try to talk from my personal device.
We'll see how this works.
Give me a moment.
All right.
Looks like you cannot hear me from my personal device.
Assuming you can hear me, though, speaking from the Autology account.
Yeah, I couldn't tell you on yours at all.
Okay, no worries.
My earphone's down on that side.
Cool. Well, good to have everybody up up here we'll get started in a moment
looks like a small guppy is still trying to connect
I don't know if you see the same thing Jeff
someone is a listener at my end so
not sure
let me see
add as a speaker
gotta add you as a speaker.
I've got to add you as a speaker again.
But while we get started, while we wait for Small Guppy to come up to the stage, GM, Jeff, how are you doing, buddy?
I am pretty good. So I'm right down in the south of England at the moment in Cornwall, enjoying some sunshine and hanging about the beach.
And, yeah, it's all pretty good.
You mean England knows about sunshine?
I thought it was always just rainy and gray.
We get some sometimes.
It did rain a lot today.
We had to hide in a pub, but that was OK.
I got to be honest with you.
I would love that weather.
I am a gray skies, rainy days kind of guy like i love my sun don't get me
wrong i love to bask in the sun every once in a while but the stuff that really gets me inspired
i would say is the right word are gray rainy days yeah and they can be okay right i mean
down here where i am at the moment, we've got beautiful coastline.
It's rocky coasts, we've got cliff tops, we've got beautiful sandy beaches, beautiful clear blue sea.
You know, a bit of rain just adds to the atmosphere.
Yeah, well, I agree with you.
I think we need a variety of things, right?
We can't just have beautiful, gorgeous, sunny days
because then you don't know the value of those beautiful, gorgeous, sunny days.
You need to contrast effect.
Absolutely.
I mean, obviously, I lived in Singapore for four years,
and we had one weather, hot and hot.
Yeah.
Cool.
Looks like maybe Small Guppy, are you up here yes sir i just there you go got connected
can you guys hear me loud and clear are you gonna bring up our mu fans onto this onto the space by
uh logging in or at least tuning in from the mu account no not today um but I do have some of my new friends here.
All right.
Well, good mewarning to everybody else.
Do you guys have any fun kind of thing? No, no.
We've never pulled the good mewarning.
That's a good one.
Dude, what's going on?
The gremlins were howling.
Y'all should just start meowing when you join a space.
Yeah, you know, I have meowed at people on socials before.
But the good mewarning, that one kind of goes hard.
We've never used that before.
Good mewarning, yeah.
Here, I'm going to change the space name to mewarning.
Hell yeah.
I don't even know if I'm spelling this right, because obviously it's not a word.
It's the thought that counts.
There you go.
Good morning, everybody.
Good to have you all up here.
I'm pretty excited to have you here because we were introduced by a fellow colleague, Claire, on our side.
He said, hey, I've been talking to the folks at Mew.
Should we hop on a Spaces together?
And I'm like, you know that Mew was my first Ethereum wallet,
which totally took me back in time.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, we hear that not super often,
but there is definitely a good chunk of people
that was introduced to Ethereum and crypto in general using Mew.
So it's always cool to hear and meet those people who have been using Mew for a lot of the times longer than I have.
Yeah. I mean, so I want to hear from you because I want to get a status update.
Like what's happening at Mew? Because to be honest, like I feel like even the wallet ecosystem since then has like,
I wouldn't even just say like blown up in terms of
the number of wallets out there but more importantly i feel like they're less so wallets every day
more so browsers social platforms like it's become so much more yeah definitely um I mean, I feel like just the way that crypto has been evolving over the past few years, some wallets are leaning into the meme of it.
Some wallets are trying to, you know, I feel like at this point, there's so many different things you can do on chain that wallets that come out these days typically will try to find a niche and lean into it.
Because Mew though was literally the first Ethereum wallet, our focus from the beginning
has kind of been just making it easy for, I like to say your grandma, but not just your grandma, you know, like for lack of better
words, easier for people who like aren't super technical, just like to have them on ramp
into crypto.
So like that's been our focus for like 10 years now.
And still to this day, our main thing is like being the wallet that is easy for new people
to onboard into. As far as like what we've been up to
specifically recently, just heads down, building and launching as much as we can. Our team isn't
super big. So we're not like launching a new chain integration every day, you know, but yeah, we have been
adding a lot of chains recently. For example, when I first got to Mew, I started working at Mew
in 2022. And I believe the mobile wallet at that point only had like Ethereum,
ZK Sync, and like maybe Optimism.
But at this point in 2025, the mobile wallet, we have Ethereum, Optimism, ZK Sync, Arbitrum, Base, Bitcoin. So that's what we've been focused on at least, is continuing to make it more and
more accessible for people. Yeah.
And actually, before we even get too far,
I feel like we're already kind of hitting the ground running.
Let's do an intro here.
So for anybody who's tuning in, doesn't know who you are,
doesn't know what Mew is, give us a brief intro, and then I'll ask the same from Jeff, and we can keep going.
Yeah, for sure.
So you can call me Guppy.
I am the social media manager at my ESA wallet and
Encrypt and also ETH VM. Not a lot of people know that I'm a part of the Mew universe. I like to call
it the Mew universe. We have multiple products. So there's Mew Mobile. We have Mew Portfolio, which
was the original web-based app back in the day.
Then we have Encrypt, which is a multi-chain browser wallet.
And ECM is a block explorer, open source Ethereum block explorer.
So yeah, I am the social media manager, and that's what we do.
We have a few Ethereum products.
Listen, I definitely want to dive into a little bit of what you just opened there.
But Jeff, give us an intro to you.
I mean, I think most people on here know who you are, but people are just tuning in, coming in from the universe.
Who are you? What do you do?
Yeah, cheers. So Jeff at Ontology, head of community at Ontology.
What that actually means is I get involved with Ontology in general, but that includes Onto Wallet, that includes Ont ID, and even messing about with Orange Protocol,
which is our reputation layer on there as well. I'm really excited about this conversation because
wallets are super important and really interested to hear as well how um you are dealing with the evolution of wallets you know we
you know we mentioned earlier actually lots of niches people trying to find those niches
and one of the niches people are really pushing at the moment of course is different ways to
achieve account abstraction and smart wallets and things like that which is really interesting um
comes with some concerns and some wins and
some losses.
So I think that's an interesting thing.
So yeah, that's me.
I'm really interested for this conversation.
Awesome.
Thanks, Jeff.
And I am Humpty.
I'm not speaking for my personal account, but you can see it up here on the stage as
a little beanie.
So if you want to follow me, go ahead and click on that button.
I have been in the ontology ecosystem, gosh, since 2020,
I would say, as a contributor.
I think I was building then and then joined when I realized
that they were doing some decentralized identity work,
which definitely speaks to me.
Identity is definitely a very much needed element
of like Web3.
And so I've been a contributor since and continuing
to drive some of the, I guess, business development efforts
to ontology.
So if anybody's curious to learn more about identity,
reputation, data, or even the wallet ecosystem, let me know.
But as Jeff said, we're very excited about talking
to Guppy today because Mew is just one of those pieces of infrastructure that's been around for a very long time.
And obviously, as a core infrastructure for Ethereum, I think it's important to kind of see what some of their insights are, obviously, but in terms of their vision for the future.
Because again, I think no one can deny the power of Ethereum,
not even Ontology, because as Ontology, they have an EVM.
They realize the value of the compatibility
with the Ethereum layer,
the wealth of developers that Ethereum has,
and users at the same time.
And then of course, with the L2s, there's a strong consumer aspect of developers that Ethereum has and users at the same time.
So, and then of course with the L2s, there's a strong consumer aspect happening
on Ethereum as well.
So if you've been following, that's not news to you,
but if you're new, just giving you some context.
So Guppy, I mean, what would you say
is one of the hardest things for a company like Mew that's been for, and I'm going to use this word, core infrastructure for Ethereum for a very long time, in terms of finding kind of a way to adapt maybe to changing narratives?
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because I'm not sure if you're familiar, but we just celebrated our 10th birthday as a company.
So as you can imagine, over the past 10 years, a lot of narratives and trends have come and gone.
And, yes, I mean, it's hard, especially in crypto, because everything moves so fast.
It's hard to, you know, try to identify trends and which one's going to be continue to stay relevant in one year, two years, three years.
And so I think that what our team has been focused on these past few years is instead of like trying to identify what is going to be huge and what is going to be the thing that we should double down on for the future.
We really just been focused on, like I mentioned a few minutes ago ago like our biggest thing is accessibility for new users specifically um because I remember our founder just a few
we do this podcast every week and a couple episodes ago our founder Kosala mentioned
that like when Ethereum was first started one of the biggest things that people were talking about
was like oh we need to make a Facebook on ethereum like we need to do social media on chain and um that was 10 years ago
and obviously now it's like we have things like warpcast and you know we're getting closer to
social media on chain but by no means are we there yet of like the final form, you know?
So, I mean, like 10 years ago, if Mew decided like,
oh, we're going to be the social media wallet on chain,
it's like it wouldn't have been a good decision, you know? So I feel like, yeah, our strategy has kind of just been
instead of trying to pick a trend and decide which one's going to happen next and double down on that, you know, just kind of it's the new users specifically that we're worried about.
We're not necessarily worried about, but like focused on.
Yeah, I think.
Yeah, so to your point, by the way, I do like to add some definitions to terms or platforms in case anybody's tuning in is new.
In terms of the Farcaster, it's a social protocol that's, for all intents and purposes, built on Ethereum.
It has its FIDs, which is their identity system, which is built on Ethereum.
And even though it kind of transacts on base for all intents and purposes,
that is Ethereum, right?
So in terms of the way that chains operate.
So what we're talking about in terms of social narratives, I agree with you.
I think that we're probably getting closer every day,
we're probably getting closer every day,
but by no means have we fixed, you know,
social or even been successful at decentralized social
because, well, you know,
giants like TikTok and YouTube still exist.
Don't think they're going to go anywhere.
In fact, if anything,
it's going to be a complementary system
where, you know, if anything, it's going to be a complementary system where social narratives, protocols will be able to thrive alongside maybe traditional media.
So just to kind of give a bit of definition in terms of what is Forecaster.
I do also appreciate this attention to onboarding new users to crypto.
I also appreciate this attention to onboarding new users to crypto.
I think we all will agree.
It's an easy word to throw around or phrase to throw around.
We're onboarding the next million.
We're onboarding the next billion.
I remember once upon a time where you went to almost any Web3 website,
and right at the top, it said, onboard'm going to the next million users to crypto.
I'm going to the next billion users to crypto.
And I was like, yeah, that's nice.
But how?
How are you executing on that vision?
Right.
Because that's a vision.
There's no plan on how to do that.
So I appreciate that, you know, kind of focus.
appreciate that, you know, kind of focus. And I would agree with you. It makes sense for Mew to
And I would agree with you.
take that on as this longstanding institution on Ethereum. You're talking about this 10-year
anniversary. Ethereum just celebrated its 10-year anniversary. So the fact that you both have the
same birthday-ish, right? Maybe off by a couple of weeks, maybe a month or so. Yeah, it's like
literally a few weeks. Yeah. To me, that blows
my mind. And the fact
of the matter, this is not an Ethereum product
too, by the way. I
appreciate when it's an
independent product.
It isn't built by consensus,
right? Like MetaMask
and Infura and all these other pieces of
infrastructure. That ability to
be able to separate,
have your own kind of plan and level of execution is important.
So with this very long-winded kind of response,
I guess my next question is,
and again, you can speak for yourself,
you don't have to speak from you.
What are some of the things that you're seeing
that are important to address as we onboard
this next group of users to crypto?
People who maybe discovered it through people hearing about Bitcoin,
they heard about Ethereum, or maybe through an ETF.
And now they're like, oh, I have an Ethereum.
What do I do with this?
What are some ways that we can be focusing on onboarding that?
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'm the socials guy.
I'm not super knowledgeable when it comes to like technical and back end things and coding and whatnot. So I don't know like how hard these things would be to implement. I imagine they're somewhat difficult or else they would already be in place.
what our ecosystem needs to be focusing on and our i say our ecosystem but i mean crypto in general
is uh privacy to be honest i feel like that is the next big frontier that devs should figure out
and i say devs should figure out as if like you know i'm just like do your job devs but
do it dude i do the same thing to ontology so yeah no like jeff will be the
first person here to be like yep humpty's always like do this do that the team's like okay thanks
yeah no exactly i have like all these crazy ideas but like i said i have no idea the amount of work
it would take to implement but uh i mean yeah if it were up to me i feel like privacy is a huge thing that on-chain devs need to work towards figuring out.
Because, yeah, I mean, it just makes sense.
Blockchain tech is cool and it's innovative.
And it makes a lot of sense in lots of different applications, lots of different industries.
But without privacy on-chain, it's like we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot, you know, because obviously the transparency of blockchain is one strength of it.
But also, yeah, I mean, if if Bob and Alice can be transacting without whoever else knowing, like that's a huge benefit.
So and it's not really like baked into blockchains yet.
So, yeah, I think that's probably the
the biggest thing in my mind
i am pretty sure jeff is eager to jump in here he is our probably one of the most loud
outspoken probably better words uh privacy uh people at ontology so go for it any thoughts jeff
yeah loud and outspoken, probably.
Okay.
I mean, you said it.
I think I agree.
Obviously, we could be entirely on this.
And I think it's really interesting, as again, what Gupy just said, is it's a problem of
our own making.
You know, blockchain gave us ownership and it gave us transparency and it gave us the
chance to do trustless things.
But it also gave us too much transparency in some areas.
And so privacy took a real hit.
And it's only with ZK technologies coming in and starting to give us options on this that we can actually start to deal with it.
It's even harder, actually, than that, because it's not just blockchain.
We talk about blockchain.
And what we do know is lots of Web3 companies across the board use non-blockchain stuff
for data storage still.
They use non-blockchain stuff for customer details and customer information, which is
absolutely fine.
There's nothing technically wrong with that in some respects.
But how we deal with that has to be dealt with.
And so I think we've got a huge challenge for wallets and not just wallets in general,
in terms of how do you make it private for people?
How do you make sure that if you've got a wallet address,
if that's shared with people,
people can't see all of your transactions,
everything you're doing.
And privacy is a right.
People have the right to privacy.
So it's a difficult one.
I think what we're seeing is lots of EIPs
coming out that allow us to do different things. And a real push, I think, towards ZKs becoming
cheaper, not cheap enough yet, but cheaper, quicker, not quick enough yet, but quicker.
And I think a lot of these things will solve a lot of problems. And I think at some point, there's going to have to be a huge conversation.
I've been having a conversation with a really cool guy, actually, on Reddit.
I don't say that very often about Reddit, but he's really knowledgeable about this,
just some really cool stuff.
And that conversation is focused around what do we need on chain?
What don't we need on chain?
And what does the on chain version look like?
And what does it need to do?
Does it just do the attestation proofs in terms of saying,
yeah, we check this off chain, and it's OK?
I don't know.
I don't know the answer to that myself yet.
But yeah, privacy is a challenge.
But we make slow and steady progress, right?
It's maybe in the next five years.
I don't think I actually answered anything at all there, by the way.
I just went on about privacy.
Yeah, I mean, privacy is important, bro.
Oh, good.
By the way, you caught me fiddling with my strike through tech. So I was listening, but I was also I try to change the topic or the subject line here at the top regularly. I find it keeps us kind of up to date. That's what we're talking about. Privacy is not dead is what I'm hearing. another thing that um i think could be improved is the self-custody onboarding experience but
like i said like i have all these crazy ideas and the devs hate me but um yeah i mean uh you know
you know like ultimately having somebody write down their 12 seed words it i mean it's it protects you in lots of ways but it's if you do it wrong if you save it
as an image on your phone if you copy and paste it into telegram or something like
you're you're done for you know so i mean i feel like ultimately over time that's another thing
that uh that wallets specifically need to figure out is is out is how do we create self-custody for users but not make it so that I need to ask my mother-in-law to literally pull out a pen and paper and write down these words or even worse, scratch it into metal.
well i wonder if you have an opinion because again these are our opinions uh we're not speaking on
behalf of anybody else but i wonder if you have an opinion about social what's the word okay so
kind of what sits in the middle of custodial non-custodial accounts would be like these new
kind of abstracted wallets like privy right where you just log in with your email, and you have
a wallet created for you, you at any point can kind of take the private key to log in
from anywhere else.
But kind of the front end almost kind of has this like, user lock, where if you don't know, you don't know. What do you think
about those types of systems? Because that seems to have become incredibly popular, which has
allowed a new kind of opportunity for this like social experience where you can't create an app
simply by having people log in with their email? Yeah.
To be honest, I'm a little skeptical just because I've seen enough protocols and ideas
be successful for a little bit
and then crash and fail miserably.
So I don't know.
It's not that I necessarily think
that Privy is going to crash and fail. It's just, yeah, I don't know, like, it's not that I necessarily think that Privy is going to crash and fail.
It's just, yeah, I don't know.
I'm just a little skeptical.
I want to give it more time to breathe, more time to evolve before I try it myself.
backend is like legit and there's no, you know, there's no like ways for, for hackers to infiltrate
and all the whatnot, then yeah, I would be, I'd be all for it. I've also seen some wallets, um,
doing things with like Apple pass keys. Cause I think the face ID is pretty secure. Um,
but yeah, I mean, overall, if, like I said,
if the devs can implement it correctly,
and as long as the users are confident
that there's no shenanigans happening on the backend,
then yeah, I mean, I would be all for it.
I don't see why not.
Yeah, I was gonna say something. Oh, go mean, I would be all for it. I don't see why not. Yeah, I was going to say something.
Oh, go ahead, Jeff.
I'll remember eventually.
Go for it.
Yeah, no, so this is great timing in reality, Humpty.
I don't know if you've been following my conversation
in our team channels with the devs and stuff on
what does it mean to attack account abstraction?
And, you know, essentially, this is what Guppy's talking about
a little bit here, is what does it mean to be able to run smart wallets,
if you like, and these things?
And one of the things that's coming out in those conversations
is the lack of a consensus in Web3 about what a smart wallet looks like.
What does it look like? like okay we've got a couple
of vips covering these things you know we we have that um in terms of uh and i'm just quickly
looking at the numbers uh 4337 and 7702 i should know them i've been reading them far too much over
the last week because it's not really my field. But what does the consensus look like in terms of how we implement these things to make sure that people can have social
account recovery or use pass keys in terms of their wallet setup and their wallet access properly
and have all those opportunities that having a smart contract as your wallet, if you like,
and these smart options, what does that look like in practice?
And I still think that despite the advances we're making, that is a really, really difficult question for people to answer.
And what we're seeing at the moment is lots and lots of wallets banding around the term smart wallet or account abstraction wallet.
But I still think we need to work towards a consensus of what that actually means. And what
do people mean when they say that? Because Ruby's absolutely right on this is, I think probably the
worst experience people have is when they first enter the Web3 ecosystem, when they first set up
that wallet, when they first have to figure out what those past keys look like, and they're scared
about storing them. And then maybe they have to restore it to another wallet or they reset something and have to restore it all again and then they struggle to restore it
and the fear and the terror of having to do such things it's a really difficult process we have to
get better at that you know i'm gonna i'm gonna take it back a little bit uh in terms of like the
social element of kind of Web3 wallets.
I remember once upon a time, one of my favorite projects, BrightID.
I don't know if they're still around,
but their value prop and what they were building was this decentralized identity.
And Ontology was collaborating for a while.
At least the discussions were open that I remember.
And it was this social recovery
mechanism where you could still have a wallet in the sense that you private keys issued to you
at the time of creating a wallet but you didn't have kind of that expectation that oh my gosh like
if i lose these keys i forever lose access to this account
and vis-a-vis I've lost access to all the funds that I have in these, in these accounts.
There was a trust method in that system where you could vouch both ways for people who you trust in that network, meaning there's a whole social graph
of folks that are participating in the Bright ID network. And the people that I know personally,
could be my wife, could be my daughter, could be my mom, could be my grandma. If I lose access to these keys, the people that I have set up as trusted members of
that network can agree if, for example, I do a challenge saying, hey, I'm Humpty and I've lost
access to my account. I need this to be recovered. My trusted parties get to respond to that challenge.
And if there is an agreement, I regain access to that wallet.
So I was a big fan of that because, again, you get access to your private keys.
This is before things like Privy existed, by the way, where there was like this more OAuth type thing that allows you to sign in using an email.
OAuth type thing that allows you to sign in using an email.
But again, it seems like something that is self-custody, continues to be self-custody,
but with a layer of trust in a network of people that are participating and that you
vouch for and they vouch in return to participate in that trust network.
So there was and maybe still
is kind of these things that we're discussing here. And, you know, so obviously there's infinite
numbers of solutions, but it's a matter of consumer adoption, right? And what is it that's
going to be super simple for the next million people to say, this makes sense to me. This is super easy.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, that makes sense. The, uh, the whole email thing or not, not email,
but like having multiple people having to sign to, uh, get control back. That's, that's similar to a multi-sig. I'm pretty sure. Right. Like I've never tried a multi-sig myself.
Pretty much. Yeah. Where you have in a multi-sig, uh, for sure, right? Like I've never tried a multi-sig myself. Pretty much. Yeah. Where you have in a multi-sig, for those people who don't know what a multi-sig
is, a smart wallet meaning, or a smart account, excuse me, that one, well, actually two or more
people can participate in. There are funds in it and a majority, or at least what you've dictated
to be a majority, can sign off to approve a transaction. In this case, they're not signing transactions,
they're just approving to give you access back to your account.
So it's still a single signer,
but in order to recover an account,
that social recovery is a trusted network,
kind of like that though, yeah.
Which by the way, we could use smart accounts,
like multi-sigs for storing high value items,
like a trust,
right, for my home is in an account that has multiple beneficiaries in case I die,
which is morbid, but, you know, a matter of fact for life.
The same thing in multi-sigs, if I have high value items, multiple people can sign for it.
So if I i die my wife
and my daughter can agree and transact those funds so yes very much like that yeah i feel like it
it'll uh that whole like social recovery thing having multiple people sign would be great yeah
like you said for like wills and big things like that um Ultimately, though, for like just regular users,
I think that devs need to figure out something even more seamless.
Because, yeah, I mean, imagine having to onboard somebody on
and then being like, oh, yeah, we have this wallet.
And then, by the way, if you lose access to it,
you need to like contact these people,
which is like, it's infinitely better than what we have right now.
But it still like kind of introduces this air of, of nervousness, you know,
it's like, well, what do you mean? Like if I lose my thing, but yeah,
something along those lines I think would be really good.
Jeff, you had your hand up.
Yeah. And I think so.
So I'm going to preemptively state that i'm a big fan of both
of these approaches by the way uh but i am going to just throw obviously the warning of this of
course things like uh notice is safe i think do a fantastic job i love their product i think it's
brilliant so there's no criticism of that but don't forget that actually we saw the buy bit hack
on the back of that sort of social hacking, if you like,
around those things. And we already have a problem with how people get manipulated in
social conditions and in social situations to gain access to things. And so there is an issue
around these multi-sig opportunities, and there is an issue around how that can work,
that we do have to be aware of as well.
And as I said at the start of this statement, really, is I'm a big fan of it.
I think it can work, it should work.
But we also have to have in the back of our mind some of the extra security concerns we bring into the system when we make these changes.
Yeah, and I think that's the thing, right? Like we're trying to identify
the different ways that the wallet ecosystem will continue to evolve. Obviously,
I mean, a lot of us would be millionaires here if we aren't already. If we could predict
kind of that next evolution of wallet infra,
because we could just go and ask for money from venture capital and build it ourselves.
But that's the thing, right?
It's not just like Web3 infra, but just generally the technology continues to evolve so quickly
that as new opportunities
present themselves in tech in technology in general these will be adapted to multiple
kind of experiences in our case wallet experiences is one who knows maybe in the future and gosh we've
beaten this you know horse to death since last year, talking about AI and AI identity. But there
might be a future where AI or smart wallets might actually refer to AI wallets that are basically
managed by an agent. And I actually don't really do much with it. It's like it's going out there
and it's on my behalf, based on some either rudimentary or sophisticated programming
i could for instance uh just sign up through that platform it's going to go and harvest
you know yield in different ways and uh purchasing that I might be interested in? Because again, it's my
agent. It's acting on my behalf. And that might be the way the wallet infrastructure evolves. Who
knows? But again, this touches on something we've talked about at length. The ability to hold these agents accountable is just more and more important because of the
kind of integration of them into so many ways that we do business or live our lives.
So I'm not going to dive too deep into that because gosh, you can go back over a year and
we've been talking about this. Yeah, no, AI in wallets, i think can be explored um obviously like very very deeply
um i've seen very rough prototypes even of people uh they built like like a chat terminal
that's it's basically an llm but connected to a wallet and then you type into the terminal like, hey, swap my USDC on Arbitrum
for DAI on Ethereum and just press enter.
And then the LLM does what it needs to do on chain.
And like I've said many times, I don't know exactly how it works on the back end.
But yeah, I mean, I feel like something like that could be very possible, you know,
as far as where wallets will be in time with AI.
Well, it's interesting too, right?
Because in terms of privacy, which by the way,
for those of you who are just tuning in,
this all started with a conversation around privacy.
All ends are public.
So anything you type into these agent platforms, unless that chat is encrypted, is public.
Like a developer can have access to that.
That's why I think the people at ChatGPT or OpenAI tell you don't put any private information
into these prompts because it
becomes public domain afterwards.
And so you're putting in your social security number, credit card numbers, that is leaked.
So the interesting thing is, if this really becomes a thing where agents are integrated
or AI is integrated into these wallets, what is the privacy feature that ensures that your data is not leaked,
that your private information is not leaked?
It's a great question.
You know, I've kind of talked with my colleagues about this before,
but there's another pie in the sky idea.
But I think that it's very possible in the future when ai and
crypto become more integrated that crypt like we're gonna somehow we're probably gonna end up
putting data on chain so that the ai can't just access free unlimited data and do whatever it
wants with it you know so that like if the data costs money for the ai to use then it's like less incentivized
to do all types of crazy things with the data you know so i feel like something along those lines
will probably happen that's scary though because you know i think you you know and almost everyone
here might agree is on-chain data is immutable it It is permanent. That's one of the reasons why reputation on-chain
was very spicy. There were projects that were putting reputation data on-chain.
You're making these attestations usually without consent about someone. And now it's on-chain, it's permanent, it's forever.
And someone can opt out from that kind of attestation or things that have been said.
So it's pretty spicy, which is, by the way, why Ontology does what it does with DID.
So if you're tuning in, you don't know Ontology has DID tech. So obviously, that's my personal belief, but also very biased in terms of like,
off chain proofs that are opt in. In other words, you make those attestations on your behalf.
And you share those attestations with whomever you wish, whether it's an individual, a platform, or an agent, you share this data. Cause yeah, on-chain data really scares me.
Yeah, no, that's a great point.
I was thinking of it from the lens of like,
it's permanent on-chain and that's why it's good.
You know, because like once it's on-chain,
you can't change it.
But yeah, no, it's definitely a double-edged sword for sure.
I mean, that's for all intents and purposes, that's kind of the
value proposition of like decentralized identity is that there is an agreed upon proof system.
You know, everybody who participates in that network agrees that the verifier and the
attestations or the proofs that are issued to your identities are valid because,
you know, that verifier is a trusted source. It's kind of like saying we all in the U.S.
agree that our credit score is the best method of proving our credibility because, you know,
the agencies that exist are reputable and, you know, kind of
been around for a long time. So we trust that they're having our best interests in mind.
That's a network, right? And so we participate in the credit system that way. In this case,
again, it's a private system, but it's usable by a group of people that are in that network.
We could have these proofs that are composable
and should I say maybe more like Lego bricks
that you can build upon.
And so there is some permanence to this reputation
that again is off chain.
So to me, again, that's why I advocate
and have continued to be an ambassador for ontology
for as long as I have,
because that one piece right there
is, in my opinion, one of the most valuable things to build towards. And, you know, whether it be
ontology or anybody else, as long as you're building in that direction, I'm a big fan. Go for it, Jeff.
Yeah, I saw Tim Berners-Lee chatting in Prague, maybe. Prague, I think it was. And for anybody who doesn't know,
Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the World Wide Web,
and works within Web3 in the Solid project.
And he has these data pods.
I never really understand why people don't talk more
about the Solid project.
I think it's really cool.
And that's these little data pods where you can store data
in a way that you have
to invite people in to see them. You have to invite people in to actually get access to them.
You can revoke that access. And that data is just essentially a black box to everybody else.
And I think this is what we need to work towards. I think data on chain, when it comes to AI,
makes perfect sense. Data on chain, when it comes to privacy, makes absolutely no sense.
And so we have to have these sort of data pod solutions where we can combine having them on chain, but in a way that we can run it so people can't access it without our permissions.
That's actually quite a difficult technical achievement.
But it is possible, I believe.
And I think that's where we have to get to because AI
is just going to hoover up your data if it's not on chain and you're not careful. It's just going
to hoover up everything. It's going to be far too public. And so the idea of blockchain being too
transparent, I think will become not a problem because the whole lot of data will become too
transparent if we're not careful anyway. So we have to solve that problem. And I do agree with Guppy. I think that solution will eventually be on chain.
Get to it, devs.
There you go.
A call to action to the Mu devs, to the ontology devs.
Get to it.
We're reaching the top of the hour.
I mean, I don't know.
We never really, we did put an outline for this conversation,
but it's been flowing quite nicely.
Anything here, Guppy, that you feel we should be talking about,
be it the Mew ecosystem or not, that we should talk about?
I mean, nothing specifically.
I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Encrypt,
our multi-chain browser extension wallet.
I'm just going to use this minute to shill encrypt.
We actually integrated Ontology into encrypt like two years ago.
So encrypt is like our super, super multi-chain browser wallet, like I said.
So it's available on Chrome, Safari, Firefox, all the browsers.
We have Bitcoin, Solana, EVM, custom RPCs, Polkadot, Ontology.
We have so many chains on Encrypt.
So yeah, I mean, if there's anything that I would want to touch on,
it's just the whole multi-chain world of everything.
But I can talk about this for hours.
So I mean, if anything, I'd love to come back for another episode.
We can talk about the whole multi-chain, cross-chain-ness of it all.
I mean, Guppy, I know we just tapped you in last night because we've been talking about it for a little while.
But we appreciate the fact that you kind of raised your hand or kind of stepped up and came up on this space with us.
So it was a good first call.
And absolutely, we could have another call.
But I guess if I had a question about, you know, this other platform, Encrypt,
and kind of it's like, how is it differentiated then from you?
And what is one thing I could do on Encrypt that I can't do anywhere else?
what is one thing I could do on Encrypt that I can't do anywhere else?
So to answer your first question, how it differentiates from Mew, the way we look at
it internally is, so Mew is like, we're really focused on the new users on board, like people
who know nothing about crypto. We want them to enter into crypto using MewWallet. Encrypt is more for our power users who are in the trenches,
farming random airdrops across all types of chains.
So that's the main difference, aside from it being mobile versus browser.
And then the second question, what was your second question?
What can you do in Encrypt? What is one thing thing i could do on encrypt that i can't do anywhere else
yeah so um encrypt currently is the only uh open source browser wallet that has support for bitcoin
evm solana and polka dot ecosystems um so i mean i i'm'm not even the dev, and I'm super proud of that.
I'm always telling people that.
We're the only wallet where you can swap from DOT to Solana to Bitcoin to Ethereum to Ontology
to an L2, back to Bitcoin, back to Solana, all in a single wallet interface.
So, yeah, that's like my favorite part of encrypt.
That's awesome. Yeah, and definitely a great feat.
It's great to be able to transact across chains.
I think it's usually important,
especially those that would be considered non-compatible
because they're not on the same kind of virtual machine.
Yeah, I know our devs, like,
it took a lot of dev work to implement Polkadot
and get it working with everything else.
But yeah, I mean, it's a feat for sure.
Cool. Well, I mean, unless Jeff has anything else to add, I just want to thank everybody for tuning in today.
Guppy, thank you again so much for stepping up joining us today and uh you know if you're listening to
this either live or in the recording i would highly encourage you to follow a small guppy
on x also follow encrypt with a k and my ether wallet uh for joining us if you have any uh
questions or want to learn more about ontology ont..io. With that, Jeff, any last words?
All good for me.
Enjoyed the conversation.
Thanks for being here, Guppy.
It was a pleasure to chat with you.
Yeah, definitely.
Thanks for having me on, guys.
Thanks so much.
We'll come back sometime soon,
and we'll talk more about Encrypt.
Until then, we'll see you next week, everybody.
Same time, same date.
