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Google flips AI mode, Anthropic pays big, OpenAI bets on chips🎙️
Recorded: Sept. 9, 2025 Duration: 1:37:32Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic week for the crypto and AI sectors, Google expands its AI capabilities, OpenAI plans a LinkedIn competitor, and Dappit launches a no-code DApp generator, signaling a shift towards democratized access to blockchain technology and increased competition in the AI landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, let's get things started.
Lewis, how are you doing today, sir?
I'm good.
I'm good, Noah.
How are you?
I'm not too shabby. A lot of happening. I feel like there's a lot happening every day in the AI space.
Yeah, new stuff is coming out every day.
I actually was – one of my friends and I were having a conversation.
He's quite concerned about AI. He thinks that it's going to make people dumber. And, you know,
he cited this MIT study that said that it can increase your chances of getting dementia.
I think it's kind of premature to make such claims, but I can see why certain people are
concerned. What are your thoughts, just to kick that off?
Well, it's like any tool.
You know, if you use it as a crutch, sure, it'll make you dumber.
I mean, but as a force multiplier, I mean, if you have a set of domain knowledge, skills, and experience, right? Like if you're a carpenter, you're a plumber, you're an electrician, you're a researcher in biomedics, right?
You've got domain knowledge, skills, and experience, and then you know what you're talking about for the most part. You can use chat GPT to really, you know, like I
said, be a force multiplier, do the research for you. You can look at it and you can see, oh, no,
that's crap. That's, you know, that's hallucinating, but this is really good. And so, you know, it just
depends, you know, yeah, sure. If you sit back and you're dependent and you're blind, you know, you just, you know, just ask, you know, questions that you don't know the answer to or have no idea what might be a wrong answer, then sure, it'll make you dumber.
Because then, like the rest of the Internet, you know, if you you can find, you know, conspiracy theories, you can find stuff to prove anything.
you know conspiracy theories you can find stuff to prove anything but if you you know based on
your own personal knowledge and experience ask questions in that area and then start to do
research it's a fundamentally amazing technology so that's kind of my view on it and and it's been
like you said it's been another busy, busy week almost every day.
I mean, this week, it was kind of a bit of a pivot point. I mean, we have billion dollar
infrastructure bets really going on around the planet within India and China. You know,
they're colliding with some value fights over data identity. We've got stuff happening around
the open web with Google's stuff, you know, going into
court.
I mean, agents are really getting practical.
We saw some stuff around hardware chips getting super political.
And the bill for training data arrived at a sweet $1.5 billion, thanks to Anthropic.
You know, I think the top quote for the week I saw was that Google admits that the open web is
in rapid decline, which really kind of contradicts their recent narrative about the health.
And their position is the web was built on links anyone could access.
I mean, remember the early days, we could access anything, but now a lot of it's getting
locked in.
You've got behind apps and paywalls and private fields.
And what used to be sort of a public square is turning into gated gardens and information, you know, it's going
behind the paywalls can be harder to find, you know, so it's not dying overnight, but it's kind
of dissolving in bits and pieces. I mean, what do you think about the whole open web controversy?
the whole open web controversy.
Yeah, I don't know if I – I guess the web has also at the same time become far more sophisticated than it was 20 years ago.
And so while everything was much more open, there wasn't as much to access.
One thing I've noticed, Louis, that has been – and this is – I don't want to get too off topic,
but I've noticed that I'm always using a VPN for my own protection.
Sure.
And I've noticed that certain websites, certain crypto dApps, but even certain sites like Netflix are starting to flag me and saying, well, you can't use a VPN.
VPN. And I find that to be quite annoying because you're basically telling me that if I'm on a
public Wi-Fi or I'm at a hotel Wi-Fi, I'm not able to go through my daily flow because, I don't know,
I don't know what the reason is. And so I have to get off the VPN, I have to expose my IP address,
I potentially open myself up to hackers. I do fear that we're heading towards a direction of the internet being more controlled, although I guess I'd say I'm not sophisticated enough to understand the nuts and bolts and nuances of things. that governments could fully get a grip around or if a decentralized future is something
that would allow us to escape from the shackles
of the Web2 ecosystem that most people are on today?
Well, the first thing you mentioned about the VPN,
that's because they basically have a list of IP addresses
they know are tied through to the VPN.
You can, you know,
most VPN providers allow you to set up your own IP address and use that.
So I bet if you did that,
you could kind of get around that whole problem.
Also,
Oh, wait a minute.
Wait, wait.
Yeah.
Lewis,
so you're saying that you can,
you can set up a,
like a custom IP address on a VPN provider?
Yeah, like Nord does that.
I can set up an IP address.
And also, depending on the VPN provider, you know, some of them are kind of a little shaky.
You know, if you find a VPN provider that has lots and lots and lots of options, right, with all different,
you know, IP addresses that you can plug into across the planet, then, you know, you can
definitely find an IP address that, you know, the Netflix of the world haven't scoped out,
because I had exactly the same problem. I was in China, and I mean, everyone uses VPNs in China,
I was in China and I mean everyone uses VPNs in China and I got bounced and I went oh and I just
kind of searched around until I finally found you know a link in and I could then access and it
wasn't a problem so it just kind of depends but you're right you know a number of different
companies are trying to prevent you know VPN access and it's just a pain, but there
are ways to kind of avoid that.
Yeah, that's interesting.
I didn't know I'd get a check with the VPN I'm using and see if I can actually use the
custom IP.
Yeah, well, if you do the default, you'll typically get picked up by Netflix, but if
you search around and bounce into some of the other countries through access,
you can probably find one that works fine. Right on. So let's kick off the news. In the past seven days, Google expanded AI features globally and signaled the language first expansion strategy.
Google drifting towards AI mode as a default in search is a distribution earthquake since it places AI summaries between users and publishers while publishers scramble for workarounds like preferred sources.
What are preferred sources in this context?
I'm just reading off your notes.
Sure.
I'm guessing preferred sources are those who pay money to advertise on Google.
You know, preferred tends to come down to money.
So, yeah, anyone who's a big advertiser on Google becomes a preferred source.
Funny about that. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, they added five new languages.
They've added Hindi, Japanese, Korean, a bunch of others, you know, and they're currently in court, you know, filing.
You know, there's a whole bunch of stuff happening on that.
So they're trying to be really careful,
but it seems like they're becoming AI kind of mode first.
I mean, OpenAI and ChatGPT have really destabilized
Google's whole foundation.
And so I think in many, they're scrambling to figure
out how can we still maintain our position? And so it's highly, highly competitive. And, you know,
they're looking for ways to not become, you know, kind of sent down hierarchy and become a yesterday
sort of product. How do they do that?
You know, so they look at getting their own chips.
They look at, you know, redefining what AI means in terms of search, a whole bunch of
stuff.
So I think we're just seeing, especially with Google and a couple of the others, they're
maneuvering to figure out how do they really, you know, what's their position in this new
marketplace now that, you know, Open's their position in this new marketplace now that,
you know, OpenAI here, ChatGPT is here.
I mean, we saw, you know, OpenAI saying, oh, we're going to build a massive competitor
to LinkedIn.
You know, I'm sure LinkedIn isn't really happy about that.
And so we're seeing a whole bunch of shifts in the competitive space where essentially
OpenAI can kind of reinvent anything based off you know using
intelligence as a commodity and they can do it really quickly and they have massive amounts of
money to do it so yeah I Google's expanding their AI features they're trying to do as much as they
can this is just you know we're just seeing this rolling competition as people try and figure out, you know, how can we compete?
How can we make money?
And how can we protect our own, you know, status quo?
I think that OpenAI has the superior foundation.
I think their LL, for me, again, I'll stand by this.
For me, again, I'll stand by this. I think they have the best LLM.
I think they have the best LLM.
And when I do Google searches, typically I don't get enough from their AI-generated responses.
Now, I don't know if that's going to improve. I'm sure it will over time.
But I find that slowly but surely chat GPT.
People used to say Google it or still say Google it, but now I'm hearing
more and more GPT it because it just seems like you get a more granular and broader scope
of an answer to what you're looking for. Yeah. And it's more of a dialogue. I mean,
I found exactly the same thing. Typically I'd go and Google stuff and I still kind of do now and then, but I'm now starting to really have a dialogue with ChatGPT about certain things I'm interested
in and say, go search for this, do deep research on this, pull this back to me. Okay, what does
this mean? And pull stuff apart. And it's this sense of dialogue, I think, with OpenAI and ChatGPT is really super powerful versus just plugging
in, I need to search for this, and then, okay, now I've got three pages of search results.
Now what I'm going to do? It's giving me richer and more on-point answers to my questions.
answers to my questions.
I mean, it sounds like you're finding the same thing.
I mean, it sounds like you're finding the same thing.
I am finding the same thing.
And I, you know, going back to Google really quick,
people are telling me it's gotten better.
I just, I don't see it.
I tried using Google's,
although Gemini, I think,
has seen some improvements.
But when I first tried using Gemini,
it was really bad.
The hallucinations were next level.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, the cash burn that OpenAI is, they're forecasting a cash burn of $115 billion through 2029.
So it's like they should be providing good answers, you know?
Well, look, I want to bring up a friend, Achilles, and he's building a no-code DAP generator.
I'm curious to know what you think about no-code application builders, Lewis, no-code website builders.
There is, Lewis, no code, website, no, there is.
Well, they're awesome.
Well, they're awesome.
I mean, we had the guy, we had the doctor on last week who has no coding background,
and he used a whole no code approach and created a three-dimensional slicer when he does brain surgery.
I mean, it's phenomenal.
We've talked about this where this cross-domain expertise
is no longer needed to launch an app, right?
You don't need to hire a developer.
You don't need to hire a bunch of people to do a bunch of stuff.
You, with no knowledge at all, can now create stuff.
We've got a long way to go on it,
but we're starting to see amazing apps and dApps getting brought to market.
So, yeah, I'm all for it.
Achilles, how does dAppit work exactly?
Okay, dAppit.
So, I mean, what our friend Lewis just said, I got to say one thing,
a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So, like, it's just enough knowledge to
make you super dangerous in coding. But so if anyone's ever used like a an automated coder,
they run off tokens, and it's they're all just API's to one of the main coding, like the big
guys like anthropic or, or chat GPT or that kind of thing. The difficulty in them is they're set to code and code exclusively, right?
So you type the word like, hey, how are you?
And it's like coding app, how are you?
And it just starts going off and it's difficult to design with it, right?
So for Dapit, we're trying to solve the usability problem.
for Dapit, we're trying to solve
the usability problem.
AI's, honestly, in my
opinion, farther along in some things that I really
had assumed before I started this project,
like Nano Banano
Gemini's new model
is, man, it is
phenomenal image generation, right?
Like, way better than I thought.
I mean, graphic designer destroying levels, like
it's a
crazy good, man, crazy good. And Anthropic Claude is so, or Opus levels. Crazy good. Crazy good, man. Crazy good.
Anthropic Claude or Opus is so good at coding.
The difficulty is not the...
It's like we have a ton of ability,
but we don't have the rails to properly use it.
For Dappit, we broke down tasks across multiple agents.
You've got... Any of you guys can use this right now.
We've got like a free thing going on and a hackathon, dapit.io, if you guys want to check it out.
We have our front-end prompt engineer.
So it's a GPT-5 or 11 labs, depending on what you input into it as model. And what she does is she breaks down your requests, discusses it with you,
designs what you actually want to build. Because saying, make me a website about elephants,
right? That's going to be completely up to the model's interpretation. But if you want to be
an environmentalist and you want to discuss the positive environmental effects of an elephant
and all those kinds of things, it requires a little bit more fleshing out.
So she codes with you, and then she creates the prompt for you to send to the coding bot.
And that's what we've got live currently.
But then in the future, I want to make this a sort of like one-stop shop for AI creation.
Something as simple as like putting a Gemini API in, right?
You can get us images.
Putting a...
What's the...
Mobi...
What's the video one?
Viva?
GPT-5's model.
No, the OpenAI one.
Starts with an S.
Anyways. Anyways.
Sora.
It's Sora.
Sora, thank you.
Sora.
Yes, Sora.
So we're looking at a lot more different APIs
that we can build into it
to make it so like you don't just have
a little bit of knowledge, right?
You're not just going to start writing a code out,
have no idea what it means,
not know how to deploy it,
and waste a
bunch of API, you'll actually be able to build out your full
product. And right now it can deploy to Netlify, it can do all
that kind of stuff. It's a cool idea.
Oh, no, sounds sounds awesome. The problem I find, you know,
doing no code or code or whatever you want to call it, are edge
cases and assumptions
so case in point i was i was i you know i was doing some python coding using tpt to build the
whole thing i said go search this big lump of copy and i want you to pull out these records
right and by the way there's 15 text files i want you to go through all and and from each of those
i want you to pull this record and here's the delimiters and all that.
Pretty clear cut case.
You think it would work great.
And I ran it.
I went, why do I only have five records?
And it had assumed I only wanted the first record out of each five rather than go through the file and find every single occurrence.
So I was like, duh, you know, edge case, right? So if you don't, I mean, it's
interesting trying to build an app like you're doing, how do you do it to handle the edge case
stuff or to at least minimize the problems? Dude, Lewis, what we found, so first off, APIs, right?
It really depends on like how you're interacting with these models. Some of them are designed to really cut you down to the bare minimum amount of tokens they can possibly
use for any given task, which if you guys saw my API bill, it makes sense. I get it, but it might
not actually get what you want to get done. And the second is providing the models with reference libraries. So the amount of interpretation language leaves us
is lost on an AI completely.
That's why we like the prompt engineer, right?
So if I tell it, hey, I'd like you to look up
images of whales,
it might, for whatever reason,
just get pull blue whales, right?
But if I have a reference library built in of multiple definitions of whales
for that model to look at, which you can do like on Dapit
or any of the major coders, you just,
you give it reference material initially.
It can look at your GitHub or whatever you want it to.
And it has more of a bespoke design that manner.
Right.
But yeah, going in with like generalized questions on these models,
it's almost like they're too smart to understand sometimes.
Well, they make assumptions.
Like they go for just like,
they make assumptions.
Yeah, well said.
Yeah, and I think that's part of the problem
with hallucinations, right?
They make assumptions on assumptions on assumptions.
That's the first issue.
The second issue is, you know,
if you feed it crap, it'll give you back crap. first issue the second issue is you know if
you feed it crap it'll give you back crap and unfortunately the internet you know is inconsistent
a lot of crap out there and so that's why i always come back to this domain knowledge skills experience
as as a set of filters to to filter the crap the hallucinations from what's real. And if you're not, you know, a domain expert,
then you're really treading dangerous waters, I think. Well, think of how it's been in the past,
right? Like when I went to learn about a subject, I would go through a professor and that professor
would have a set amount of material that that professor would reference ahead of time. It wasn't
all the material available, right? That was what that professor went through. When we say, like, give me your information on a subject,
the amount of competing info and things that fly around is astounding. So, like,
you really got to nail these guys down onto a very narrow task or a very narrow interpretation.
And, I mean, you have to build up your own internal model, right? Your own internal model is going to give you the distinctions and understandings in order to filter the BS from what's going to work.
And it's, I mean, your product's really interesting.
Because it's like people get a great idea.
And then, you know, then it's like, well, then you start to ask them a bunch of questions.
So I think your approach of having this, what did you call it?
Like a prompt mentor approach to kick it off.
Prompt engineer. Her name is Ade.
Right. Right.
AI development engineer.
Awesome. I mean, I do I do the same thing, you know, in the in the GPT's, you can look for different custom GPT's.
Right. I one that I've used really well is called Prompt Creator. do the same thing you know in the in the gpts you can look for different custom gpts right
one that i've used really well it's called prompt creator and it's got like a weird colored you know little icon but basically you i you know i just do stream of consciousness throw it in and then it
starts to structure it and it asks me a number of questions to refine and to essentially do boundary conditions around all my what I'm
asking it. Incredibly helpful. So it sounds like you're taking the same approach. I mean,
why did you take, I mean, I understand why, but tell me in your own words, why did you take that
approach? Okay. Have you ever met with GPT for all? No, I think I did, but it was a long time ago.
Well, to anyone who's interested in AI and learning about AI,
I think it's the best place to start.
It's a desktop application where it runs local models.
So you can run a Llama, Mistral, any of the open source models.
And it has no memory, right?
These models can only exist as many tokens as their shack and handle.
It's the most simple version of an LLM that you can operate with.
So I began to develop, I'd say like course data for my models because I couldn't save
a custom GPT, right?
And I wanted this to be offline and I wanted to actually learn from baseline AI. So I began to save course material. And when I would upload the course material,
I would ask the AI series of questions about it to make sure that we were kind of on the same page.
And that led to me copying and pasting prompts that I would consistently, so I'd get a new model,
I'd upload my reference data. I'd ask it these questions to
make sure things were good, right? And then I would begin my approach. And that was just to
maintain like a consistent conversation. So when I got into coding, I told myself I'm going to build
an Ethereum application using just chat GPT and not where it would interact with my terminal.
It's going to teach me, right? When I got into coding, I realized it was, it was an even bigger barrier. Um,
because getting on the same page, like if I lost,
I would actually exceed the chat GPT limit for a conversation. Right.
So I'd then have to create a new chat and pick up where I left off.
Cause I would ask it a billion. I've never coded in my life. Right.
I'd ask it a billion. I've never coded in my life, right? I'd ask it a billion questions.
It would start answering it in the wrong way on the new chat and so on.
So I began to ask other AIs how to talk to my coding developer,
and it seemed to be the best system.
So I'd ask GPT, hey, I'm trying to get a mistral to code.
Give me some guidelines.
What's the best way to talk to it? And it would give me prompts from there.
Nice. Nice. And so when I use your DAPIT and I can create a DAPT, is there any, at this point
in time, integration of a Genic AI or AI agents or anything like that yet?
Adi is the only agent that we have currently.
Could you theoretically, it would be a difficult and many, many tokens to really build out like a full platform or something that you wanted to, if you wanted your own agent or something along those lines.
The coder is capable of anything.
So if you look at anything Claude can do, we can do, we're pretty much
Claude with like Netlify deployments and a bunch of APIs built into it.
Um, I would, if I was approaching something like that, I would talk
to Ade and I would create multiple modules, right.
And then I would code each module separately.
I would not approach that
on a one and done type of prompt thing. It would take you, you'd have to be a bit of an engineer
yourself to understand like what parts I have to break down. And then I could build each part
separately with that, but no problem. Okay. And then each of those could then interact with each other as long as yeah you have to you still have to know how to be a coder right um so like i wouldn't
suggest doing this on like your system i get a docker i would i'd go through the whole process
and the code generated dap it can handle completely but the actual full deployment
if you want an application on your system running something agentic it's a lot a little bit more complicated sure sure i mean it's early days i mean you know
we're all building this you know we're putting the plane together as we fly it um but i think
the op the the potential is just astounding it really is like being around for the i used to
tell no this when we got into crypto or when i
him and i ran into each other in crypto like it felt like we were around for the very beginning
of like the dot-com boom yeah yeah it feels the same way
i mean i was a little too young to appreciate it but I mean, yeah, I mean, I go so far way back.
I mean, my father was in computers.
So basically, you know, when I was 10 years old, he brought home a terminal and we hooked
it into the mainframe of all things, you know, and it was like, wow, this is like bleeding.
It's like, so yeah, it feels like we've gone through these experiences of this.
This is bleeding edge, you know, at the internet, basically I didn't work for like four days I just got totally absorbed in it you know so and now you know then there was crypto
and now we have AI it's just been a phenomenal time period but I think what you're working on
is really powerful and and and you know Nora and I have talked about this a couple of times the
last sessions that the AI technology is really allowing people with no or little to no technical ability to really now create amazing, productive applications and to do it in a way that's never been done before.
I would love to hear Noah's thoughts on this, but I think AI, so everyone thinks AI is going to replace jobs.
And obviously it is to some extent, right?
But I think more so AI is going to change the valuable skillset in the workforce.
So now, okay, being a coder is valuable, right?
But being a manager who can manage coders is infinitely more.
Because I can spin off nine models.
I can all have them coding different aspects
of something, right?
But being able to actually put that together,
manage it, get a workflow, market it,
that kind of stuff,
is becoming exponentially more valuable
as the menial tasks are taken away from us by AI.
Well, the key differentiator is creativity, right?
It's all about creativity now
with no limits on skills set right so i mean they
just signed an ai musician who has no musical ability right this person has no musical ability
but they can use ai to create music right but they're creative right so so what i'm what i
think we're starting to see is that just pure creativity now is no longer insufficient to do things, right? You have an idea
for a painting, you can now do it. You have an idea for a song, you can now create it. You have
an idea for a movie, you can now do it. And you don't need to be a movie, you know, a field video person, right? I mean, we're seeing,
is it OpenAI submitting, you know, a new movie, you know, to get judged? So, you know, we're seeing
creativity becoming the primary force and differentiator. I mean, do you think that's
real? Yeah. So I mean, I want to jump in here for a second. I had this, I was having this conversation
with my friend Isaac yesterday,
and I invited him to come on, but he's not here.
He's an artist, and he used to be a developer,
and I'm not entirely sure what kind of dev work he did,
but he's basically told me that because of these AI tools,
it's not a feasible career path anymore.
And he's always been a natural artist ever since we were kids.
So he's been doing different sketches and filming them and putting them on YouTube.
And so my thing is, and for a long time, Louis, I said, you know, I made the same claim as you did,
is that we have all this untapped creativity on
the planet and I believe that AI is gonna allow people to express that creativity who otherwise
didn't have those tools at their disposal of the skills at this other disposal now with that said
when it comes to code like code is code no one cares if it's made by humans or machines.
People just want the product to work, and they don't want any bugs.
And in the case of crypto applications, they don't want to get hacked.
So I don't care who builds it.
Now, and this, I think, is a maybe controversial controversial take or maybe it's a hot take. But when it comes to art and film and music and paintings, I think that humans, they want to not just connect with the art but the artist as well.
And –
Go ahead.
Yeah, jump in, jump in.
Dude, I agree with you completely.
I just – I don't think AI removes that.
And that's what I was saying about the more
the CEO version.
Now an artist can make
10 times what an artist could make before.
You were limited by your hand
and a pencil or a paint.
Now you can actually...
I think that's the point I'm trying to make, though.
I think that there's going to be a divide
between people that don't care
if the artist is using AI trying to make though i i think that there's going to be a divide between people that don't care if the artist is using uh ai tools to make their art but i think there's there's going to be
a side that really cares about authenticity you have these you have these videos on youtube that
are an hour long and my buddy isaac is making them as well it's it's a it's a bird's eye view
of him draw like drawing a sketch of
the avengers all very beautiful yeah and beautiful i i think there's just something about something
about watching someone paint something or draw something and there's something about watching
a tarantino film uh there's an authenticity to it that i don't know. And maybe I'm wrong, right? Maybe AI can reproduce, reproduce that magic someday.
But there's something about knowing this was created by a human being,
by human beings that I think people are, are, are still going to long for.
So yeah, that's, that just kind of my perspective on it.
I agree with you.
Yeah, I agree, too. I think we'll always have, we've all, you know, you can always
manufacture slop, right, and crap. And we've seen that, you know, when suddenly
anyone can create anything. But the idea for authenticity or just the connection with humanity is just a powerful draw.
And, you know, maybe at some point, AI might be able to simulate that without us.
I mean, you know, they're saying the Turing test has been passed now.
But, you know, I think there'll always be in many ways a desire to connect with other humans through art, you know.
I want to go to –
I'm sorry. Go ahead.
No, Kelly.
I was going to say, finish your thought, and then I see 21.
I've never had him up on stage before.
Decentra as well.
I've never had either of them up on stage.
So I want to go to 21, who had his hand up, and then we can go to –
I want to hear from Decentra as well, and then Captain Levi.
All right, 21, you take it, man.
My thought was just going to be more ramblings about the spirit and soul of humanity and what AI is doing.
Go for it.
You go.
A pleasure to be here, guys.
It's a fascinating discussion.
What I wanted to impart is that the saying is that life imitates art, and that's wholly incorrect.
The artist that created that art has needed to see life in order for him to create it.
So art actually imitates life.
And so that's kind of where artificial intelligence is going to, you know,
for the time being, going to be at a disadvantage,
because we as humans have to live our life,
and then it takes our, you know, shavings off or whatever,
whatever we leave in the world, and it spins up the artificial life.
So as Noah Moby said, the true artist is always going to be in demand because he's known as a true artist, and he's truly creating his art.
I'll land there.
Yeah, I totally agree. And I,
you know, there's also this, this theory, and I don't know if it's true or not, that AI is just aggregating the, the, the whole and history of human knowledge. And once it runs out of knowledge
to aggregate, then what i i don't know
is it at what point does it hit escape velocity where it it just goes out and learns on its own
and at a speed which is unprecedented lewis what do you think about that before i hand it over to
i i think once once you get the the ai being instantiated into robotic humanoid forms, right, where it will get, you know, through its senses, whatever those may be, and it starts to have that external separate experience that it can reflect on, you know, we might see jumps in creativity from AI as a consequence of that. I mean, you're right. It's basically sponging off all the knowledge we've got at the moment
and kind of coming up with some interesting creativity stuff,
but it's very derivative.
Maybe true creativity requires instantiation into a humanoid form.
I don't know.
But, you know, we'll see.
For me, from my predictions, I think the next big jump we'll see when AI gets running on quantum computers.
I think that's when we'll start to see a massive leap.
But who knows? I'm open to anyone else. Go ahead.
No, that's a good point regarding the humanoid robots, because then you have AI inside of a humanoid body,
and that humanoid can just go out and learn about the world the way
that human beings do it at a faster rate i yeah look i want to know what decentra thinks about
this his hand his hand is up before we get to him though guys please please retweet the space
follow the speakers up here follow the mopee And I've pinned to the top of the nest. Dappit is having a hackathon.
They're giving out $5,000 in prizes to 10 winners. And this is something that anyone
can participate in, right? You don't have to have dev experience. Although maybe if you have
dev experience, you might be at a slight advantage. you know this is real i i know the founder
uh i i trust the team and these are legitimate prizes five grand is legitimate prize they're
giving out to 10 winners so from there let's go to decentral what's going on brother i want to hear
about what you're thinking and overall thoughts yeah uh hopefully you hear me okay yeah yeah my thought is that AI is
basically leverage and if we look at art and how technology has created
leverage I come come and kind of think of the analogy of photography from
painting you know they said okay when photography came around well why do you
need painting well it's true that any painting that you're doing realism well
photography is gonna surpass that any painting that you're doing realism, well, photography is going to surpass that.
Hence, painting went into a different direction, I think.
So you're still going to have these kind of separate mediums.
It's going to maybe diverge.
But where they're similar, obviously, I think AI, just like photography,
that's going to probably win.
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
When photography came about, what was it, the end of the 18th century, early 19th,
suddenly artists went to Impressionism, Pointillism, a whole bunch of different wacky stuff,
because it was like, well, reality is now, you know, you can take a photograph. What can artistry
bring to it? And I think artists will always find more creative ways above and beyond technology.
ways above and beyond technology and but like you said to leverage it every single time
And but like you said, to leverage it every single time.
and so i think just to follow up i think that there's no uh i think there's a lot of fear
right now but really i think the ai will take over its own space and humans will find
other spaces and other avenues that the ai can't yet do
yeah or even if it can it'll still just leverage what we have as basic creativity other avenues that the AI can't yet do. Yeah. Or even for can,
it'll still just leverage what we have as basic creativity.
Yeah.
And that's the leveraging,
the leveraging our basic creativity is that's the point I've been making for
the last,
I'd say three years.
GPT has been out for almost three years.
And that's what excites me the most
is a symbiotic relationship between human beings and ai and you know i don't i don't know i don't
know what it's going to look like 50 years from now but maybe we maybe we just fuse ourselves
with robots and become these cyborg-like humanoid creatures that are learning at historically unprecedented rates.
Am I getting a little sci-fi here, Lewis, or do you think that's something that could
possibly happen maybe a century down the line?
Sorry, give it to me again.
I didn't quite get it.
Yeah, in a nutshell, do you think that instead of AI robots becoming their own thing, that human beings fuse with robots, turn themselves on the sideboard?
You're seeing what, you know, Elon Musk is doing with the tying in, you know, hardware into people's brains, right?
you know, hardware into people's brains, right?
I think, again, we'll see that where, you know,
more and more capabilities will come up
where we can tie them into our brain
and parts of our body even just to live longer.
You know, there's tons of science fiction around it.
Who knows how it's gonna roll out,
but you know, there will be people who I think want to enhance
themselves using augmented computers in one way or another I mean we can go the way of the Borg
I don't know but definitely some people will and some people will not under any circumstances
you know maybe humanity will splinter into different groups around the different technologies
as they augment themselves.
But I think what we're seeing that's coming actually into the real world now is the potential
for that.
You know, they now have, you know, monitors that can monitor and turn your thoughts into spoken words. So people in comas,
you know, people in who, you know,
you think they're totally non-responsive
when they had AI actually watching them,
they found there was a lot of activity going on
that was beyond human awareness.
So there's tons of stuff starting to happen.
is starting to happen. Go ahead, Captain Levi.
Go ahead, Captain Levi.
Yeah, I just have some comments regarding, you know, the fine-tuned search.
You know, it's actually all about efficiency, you know, considering the fact that we can only live for so long.
only leave for so long. So we try to solve problems as quickly as we can. I just want to make some
So we try to solve problems as quickly as we can.
comments regarding that AI mode because since it came out a couple weeks ago, I can't remember when
I actively used Google search and clicked on a link because my preference is a quick summary
that meets the criteria or answers the questions that I asked as quickly
as possible. So if I would spend five to ten minutes trying to digest every information from
every possible related link, if I were to choose between that and, you know, getting precise answers,
I actually take precise answers, but then it actually brings another twist.
Gatekeeping information, what if there's something I need to know but it isn't shown?
We're talking about the unknown unknowns, so to speak.
That's where the context of being a critic comes in. By a critic, I'm trying to monologue in the fact that a
food critic actually tastes food differently from someone who isn't because that's his
field. So you can only know so much depending on who is the person interacting with that AI. And I think that's another aspect where humanity still comes to play.
That unique trait of humanity still comes to play.
No matter how good these things evolve, as long as they are professionals or specialists in fields of study,
the evolution is still going to be heavily dependent on human evolution as well.
Yeah, I think it's interesting that, you know, experience gives rise to much greater distinctions that allow you to have greater experiences.
So, as you said, people focus on different areas, gain greater distinctions, allows them to increase their understanding.
And that's, you know, machines don't have that at this time.
But I think, you know, the AI can really,
it can automate the grind, you know,
but it'll end up amplifying the human.
And I think, you know, if we can have AI build the scaffolding,
then human imagination can really
build worlds out of anything. And I think it allows us to have creativity that really doesn't
have a leash anymore. But, you know, as I say, automation creates opportunity, but not automatic
fairness. You know, I think we do need policy, we need design, we need, need you know human in the loop on a lot of this stuff because
otherwise you know it'll just run away too fast and people get you know left behind and and that's
that's not right or fair no what do you think? Yeah, so I agree, right?
There's going to be a displacement of grind, which I think most of us are excited about.
And then there's going to be an augment.
I mean, right, like most people, you know, I'll go out right now and interview 100 people on the street. And I guarantee you more than 50% would
not be doing what they're currently doing if it wasn't for the money. And a lot of them just not
being honest with themselves, in my opinion. And so I think that removing the grind is great. And
then also augmenting the human mind and the human ability is not something that I've thought about too long and
hard, but the more I ponder, the more excited I get because I, you know, Decentra is a real life
friend and we were having a conversation a while back about how fragile humans are, right? I mean,
you can make the argument they're resilient because of millions of years evolution,
but you can also make the argument fragile that, you know, I can't really jump off a
10-story building and not get severely injured if not die.
So I think I'm getting a little sci-fi, but I think it's cool if human beings would be able to turn into something that history has never seen, right?
These kind of cyborg-like humanoids that can jump off buildings and be resilient if they're in a car crash or – and also think in ways.
Think at a caliber that no human has thought
at before.
I mean, imagine what we would accomplish.
Maybe we do become a multi-planet, multi-planet species.
Yeah.
I mean, I just want to make one comment, then we'll throw it to 21.
I mean, there's some realities to this.
I mean, I'll create it creativity obviously needs
space and ai can help us with that but you know we also need income you know we need community
and we need time to practice you know and while it can enable new art it doesn't guarantee meaning
and it doesn't guarantee ethical use and i think we really have to be really careful
you know around some of this stuff because it's easy to you know kind of go off and you think everything's you know roses and all that
but hey like you know things you'll get bitten in the ass a couple of times go ahead 21.
just to kind of dovetail to what noah i think it was noah was saying um i got good news for
you this stuff's already being done.
First of all, mass market, people replacing their hips with, you know,
with bionic hips, stuff like that.
But more towards a military special forces world,
there's being alterations that are, you know, by hook or by crook
are being done to soldiers, which turns them into superhumans,
specifically with reinforcing the leg.
Cause you're able to basically jump out of planes without a parachute.
I'll just leave it at that. Um, but that, that stuff's being worked on. So, um,
and, and the, and the product and, and, uh,
and fruits of that are just magnificent to see. So it's awesome.
I would love to see,
I would love if you could send some links or any videos I can watch or any YouTube.
That's so cool to me that that's happening today.
It's anecdotal.
It's anecdotal, so there's really nothing that I can send, and it kind of goes into clearance from that point.
point but um if you just think for example and i'll give you a hypothetical you know say somebody
But if you just think, for example, and I'll give you a hypothetical.
was injured in war and they um and they lost their their both their their legs at the knee
all right well the you know with walter reed and with the va now where you know we're gonna
we're gonna replace we're gonna give them you know basically lower legs you know but robotic
lower legs at that point to whereby he needs to train to,
to use them and using, you know, methods like Neuralink, which are coming along,
you know, he'll be able to just basically, you know, have new legs and be able to use them
pretty intuitively and pretty innately. So at that point, if he wants to go back into a theater of
war, gentlemen could jump out of a plane. Um, and he, he'll a gentleman could jump out of a plane,
and he'll be able to jump out of a plane from any distance pretty much.
I mean, well, call it 15,000 feet for now,
and land without a parachute.
Well, if you have 100 of those guys,
then now you have a special forces team that's going to be basically unbeatable.
I'll land there, but you could start to see the possibilities, and that's just on the legs.
Think about the arms. Yeah, I mean, Noah, but you could start to see the possibilities. And that's just on the legs. Think about the arms.
Yeah, I mean, Noah, go look up DARPA, right?
DARPA is the real, it's a defense advanced research projects agency.
And they're doing a ton of stuff around prosthetics and neuro connections, high bandwidth implanted neural interfaces, a whole bunch of stuff.
It's sort of really out there.
I will tell you this story.
When I started my career in going out and IT and computers, I interviewed with a number
of firms who were in the military space.
And under NDA, which was weird to do for a job occupation, it was clear that the technologies they were dealing with were at least 20 years ahead of anything commercially available.
It was just nuts.
in the real deep high you know research tech stuff is at least 20 years ahead of what we see now
um it really can blow your brain and you know just looking at some of the stuff that
DARPA dribbles out you know uh you can kind of get a hint of what they're doing especially when
you start to combine you know the biosensors with pharmacological research, you know, for endurance, a whole
bunch of other stuff. I mean, these are, we look at them as separate tech stacks. They look at that
as a potential to combine the tech stacks so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
And then you get wild crap really happening. Go ahead, 21.
Just to, you know, piggyback, DARPA, you know know contrary to what al gore says darpa actually
created the internet so uh yeah darpa is is the is the r and it's basically the r d arm of the cia
fbi uh to whereby they just wanted to start you know finding stuff out about themselves but have
kind of a chinese wall between the u.s government so it's an amazing place. And 100%, they're 20 years ahead.
And now when you integrate AI into their model,
are they not 50 years ahead?
Those are the questions, yeah.
Well, I mean, that's why you're starting to see,
and I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah, right?
So there was about three or four years ago,
a huge, a huge bill that went through
to build a massive data center for the US government.
And you can bet, you know, a lot of that.
Oh, this is the one that was the Star Trek Enterprise, right?
I don't mean to cut you off,
but this is how they sold it to the congressman.
That was so cool.
I love that.
But yeah, I mean, again, you know, I've said AI is a force multiplier
and you can bet people in the military, the CIA,
and every single, you know, secret service across all the sovereign countries
are also running as fast as they can to try and figure it out.
I mean, I think that's why we're seeing sovereign AI. You're seeing
sovereign AI in terms of countries' policies starting to really bubble up. In the newsletter,
I do five days a week, there's a section on non-US government, which is basically a bucket I
can just throw stuff into. And there's lots of reports, even over the last four to six weeks of governments getting
super serious around developing sovereign AI. I mean the Stargate project look at that I mean
you know OpenAI they announced the big push into India right so that's so we now have a US focus
we have India focus and they've said it's going to be a global network. So which country is going to be next?
That'll be the interesting thing.
Decentra, go ahead.
I think you've got your hand up.
Yeah, actually, I want to just speak to something that 21 said earlier about the legs and the enhancements.
It's interesting that modern plastic surgery arose from post-World War I, where people were reconstructed from damage but you can see
where once we got a hold of that commercially that technology look what we're doing with it
i think the same thing's going to apply here except that now ai is much more spread out it's
not there's no gatekeeping of this so really humans love to adapt things even if it's just
for fun or enhancement so i think enhancements are are really going to go off the chain right now. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it'd be integrating at
a neurological level, additional sensors will be an interesting way to understand how creativity
could expand. But I think you're right. The military tends to be a leader in terms of kind of looking
at new technology.
I mean, even plastic surgery initially came out of because people were so damaged in World
War I and obviously previous wars, but now they could try and figure out.
So we're seeing these new technologies.
I mean, we saw the investment in NASA produced amazing inventions and advancements.
So, yeah, it is kind of crazy.
But I come back to this point of, you know, all this technology is wonderful.
But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, in some way or another, until we get to the world of you know star trek next generation we need income we need safety we need community we need ethics we
need to make sure that you know there's you know doing it for good i mean i may remember the old
now it's the old uh the google you know do do no evil I think we need that. Go ahead, 21.
Although, just sorry, just to add one last thing. So plastic surgery, while it was available then, you couldn't really monetize it, except today you can't.
So same thing.
I think people are going to start to monetize AI in different ways that we just haven't even thought.
Oh, yeah.
There's tons of stories popping up with AI being used in plastic surgery, AI being used for tattooing.
So, yeah, people, I mean, I've said before, this is the first time a technological revolution has occurred that's not been based on hardware.
Previous, you know, the telegraph, the, you know, the fax machine, the mobile phone.
machine, the mobile phone. This is AI's pure cloud software. And so it's allowed it to infuse
This is AI's pure cloud software.
across every single thing that we do, every single industry. And then it's been like a
cascade effect where these ideas have bounced across and people have looked at, well, look what
they're doing in fashion. We can do that over here in construction. And people looked at
construction. They said, oh, we can do that over here in, you know, biomedical.
You know, so you're seeing the applications in each of the industries no longer being siloed, but generating even more creativity across other disciplines.
Go, 21.
I think we're at a tremendous seminal crossroads whereby I take the S&P 500 or Fortune 500 pardon, I think HR departments already know
that they could basically slash their workforce by about 50%
and I think they're not able to
do that because of the optics, which
leads into my other theory is that we need to be
moving into more of a, you know, back to a blue collar society whereby, you know, universal
basic income is instituted because when this workforce is, you know, distributed or deleted
for lack of better words, they need to be able to go into something that
that um that they can do and and uh it be it farming manufacturing etc etc given the longer
uh life life uh terms that we have as humans or americans for that matter you know you're able to
reinsert into the workforce at let's say 50, 50 and have a blue-collar, quote-unquote, blue-collar job. I consider Amazon distribution blue-collar. So I think we have to reshift our entire workforce
base and basically also to the kids who used to think, hey, I'm going to go into coding. Well,
these things are gone. So there's a major inflection point here. And I think it also,
I mean, not to get political, but it dovetails into an America first kind of world where we just don't become the world's cop and we stick to our, stay in our lane and that's it. We just become a consumption society. I'll land there.
not think that a lot of the blue-collar jobs are also, and maybe not as soon as the coding
jobs, but a lot of the blue-collar jobs will also be replaced by robotics and AI?
They will be, but I mean, we're already seeing that we're going into this agentic system,
and from the stuff that we're looking at, the agentic system is going to need, is always going to need human intervention and humans on top.
So it's like,
it's think of it as like a redistribution of, of people amongst,
amongst the work,
but the work is,
it has to move from the clerical office,
white collar work back into a blue collar, green collar world.
Um, because if it doesn't, you know,
we're going to have a lot of humans walking around looking for purpose and, you know, starting to jump off buildings and shit like that.
And this has been discussed frequently.
I mean, once you rid the human of his employment, you're really knocking out one of his four legs.
And so he starts to lose purpose in life, you know, perhaps, and also starts to lose schedule.
I mean, think of the COVID world where people were waking up at 5 in the afternoon, you know, and fucking around until 3 in the morning.
You know, once you move off of a circadian rhythm, you know, everything gets haywire, especially when it's 100 to 200 million people.
So that's what needs to be avoided.
That's an interesting thought.
I find that most people I speak to in my age group tell me, man, I wish I had the money to travel or the time to travel.
And I hate my job, but I can't leave my job.
And I feel purposeless.
I feel like I'm just a cog in a machine. So, but, but I've also,
I've also heard what you're saying 21 is that a lot of,
especially older people when they retire because their,
their career was something they did for multiple decades,
they lose that sense of purpose and they don't really have any other hobbies
apart from maybe playing sports with their friends or watching TV or going on walks. I'll tell you what, if you ask my circle of friends, what would you do if
you didn't have to work tomorrow? Most of them would say travel. Most of them would say they'd
work on art. A lot of them maybe would fall under the category of sleeping a little later,
but I don't know if they'd become fully nocturnal.
I will say, though, there was a period in COVID where I was going to bed,
although my career path is super unconventional,
but I was going to bed at 5 a.m. and waking up at 3.
There you go.
DeFi Center was another time, though.
That was a different... The five, three was on point. The other thing about retirees is that they
mentally and physically atrophy. So, you know, the second they stopped doing things and have
routine and working and pushing paper or whatever they do filing, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, your, your muscle memory just collapses. And you know, if you sit around and watch TV all day or whatever, you know, you literally just become retarded.
My mother, God bless her, is 76 years old.
And all she does is watches Bluff and all these casino YouTubers.
And I literally don't, I can't watch it for long.
I'm 52.
I can't watch it for longer than 10 minutes.
But she just watches it and she's glued to it
So I mean, we're you know, these guys if they're not if they're not doing something
They're literally just you know becoming retarded and thankfully all this new YouTube stuff can help them along that path
Yeah, I mean do you mind if I jump in on this real quick?
Go ahead. No, no mind. Yeah, I just
Please I really I love the conversation
man I love your take on it too um humans absolutely need a purpose and I think AI
might if implemented properly right actually give us the ability for that
purpose not to be work like yeah it currently I agree completely like but
but Noah was saying like i've uh i've had
an orthodox career path myself and i've been self-employed now for four years i don't want
work to be my driving force i want that to be my family i want self-exploration i want when i was
working 100 hours a week that was a different discussion right i didn't have any hobbies i
didn't have any interests um Those had to be developed.
But like, if we were in a society where...
Wait a minute.
You're still not working 100 hours a week?
What am I doing wrong?
As soon as I have a baby?
I work for my son these days is how that goes.
It's a different discussion.
That's called new tax category.
Right.
But like, we don't need the blue blue collar model i don't think that actually
made the boomers happy right i don't think that was that was a great thing for them it definitely
gave them purpose and they were at a period where they were building a country and it was changing
rapidly and so on but like in the end i can't see that being a great long-term solution for humanity
um i would love to see didn't didn't have a choice
by the way sorry boomers didn't have a choice no they did not not whatsoever man not even close
right i think i i won't change what it means to be human it'll change what it means how to be how
to how to be a human right so it's going to give us a different how it's it's going to give us a
different way for i mean uh 21 mentioned the you know the four legs right you've got the survival
leg economic stability you've got skill leg competence and growth you've got social leg
belonging and connection and then the last one meaning and purpose basically what's my purpose
and i think it'll just give us the freedom if we choose and we want to kind of
figure that out ourselves and but the problem the thing is there'll be people who go I just want to
watch Fox News 24 hours a day or I just want to watch YouTube 24 hours a day and and it's like
that's okay that's got to be okay I mean you know uh but at least we're not having to do a five day a week grind,
you know, spend an hour in a commute morning and evening, go and sit in a cubicle like a gopher,
you know, at least we can get free of that paradigm. You know, the next one,
you know, hopefully will be better, but I don't think it'll be the end point.
Let's see, man. I mean, currently with our economic systems, I don't think it'll be the end point. Let's see, man. I mean, currently with our economic
systems, I don't see this. It's got to
get a little bit worse before it gets better.
But like you mentioned, like the Star Trek model.
I mean, there could theoretically with AI
be a world where humans work a good
10, 15 years of their life and no
more. Then they retire
and get to enjoy whatever frontier
they so choose. It's
changing stuff.
Yeah, and you know, the replicator gives you all the food you want.
If you want to get entertained, you can.
But basically, you become sovereign in your own support system,
lifestyle, and what you want to do.
And then you make your choices based on that.
Go ahead. I don't know who was next, De 20 yeah a lot of hands up let's go to the center and then i want to get uh my buddy
orion in here yeah yeah i i think we really need to kind of rethink what work means because even
like using the star trek analogy they're working but are they really working not to mention you know it was it was
it was it was Einstein doing physics as a hobby that really changed the world and so imagine the
future Einstein when she gets her hands on AI what is she gonna do and is that work anymore
yeah he was a clerk at the copyright office wasn't he? Yeah. Crazy. And yeah, I mean, where, you know, our hobbies become our passion and we
don't need to have this work thing in order to economically survive. You know, if you take away
that necessity, you know, you're right. What's going to happen?
It's an important distinction. I, you know, like I think 21 was saying,
the boomers had to work where I, like Achilles decided,
back in 2017 that I didn't wanna be
on this conventional work path.
I was okay with taking the risk.
And now my days are spent, I work probably from when I wake up and
till when I sleep, but the average person would look at me and say, well, you're not working,
right? You're not actually sitting at a desk and plugging away at a few tasks, but I'm doing all
kinds of things, right? I'm exploring, I'm learning new things, I'm trying out new ideas.
And that's actually allowed me and allowed Achilles and two examples to make this unconventional
path work for us and work for us in a way that I don't think the conventional path would have
worked. So going back to the Einstein, I'm no Einstein, but going back to the Einstein analogy,
But going back to the Einstein, I'm no Einstein, but going back to the Einstein analogy, thankfully Einstein was in a situation where he was allowed to play.
I didn't know that, Decentra.
I didn't know that Einstein accidentally became the legend that he is.
That's a really cool fact.
And also very important, his early physics, he's not getting paid for that.
There was no kind of enumeration, so it's not really work work i don't know if any physicist gets paid but yeah you're right
all right let's go to orion oh did he drop yeah my boy he dropped down he'll be back 21 let's
circle back to you we got about 25 minutes left anyway so um like i said i'm i'm early 50s 30 years ago i came that same realization
and i ended up being one of the original day traders we were so's bandits short order entry
system bandits the beauty is and and to the center's point which is also amazing is that um
when you allow a an economic workforce and population to be released from the shackles of
of their of their dread, then they're
able to go off and float their own ships and create their own creations that are more in
line with their passion. If we have this kind of universal basic income society integrated
to whereby we are all shareholders, so to speak, of the United States government, and we all receive from the government as a whole to finance our well-being and purpose.
And I think that, lastly, this is like the 80-20 kind of AI resolution that everyone speaks about.
It's not 80-20, but it's like 90-10, where 90% should work out and 10% it might fail catastrophically.
The problem is that you've got some entities that are trying to do the end around
and they're trying to go to the back of kind of the world
and then work their way, you know, reverse engineer things.
And so those are the ones that are always, you know,
we're always going to have to keep guardrails on
and make sure that no one's getting a little too crazy
because we've seen that it hasn't stopped humans
from trying to make shit like that happen.
Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree.
Meta Ruth?
Yes.
Hey, guys.
I was on my other account earlier for my game I've been trying to push that I created.
But thank you for having me up.
Love the conversation about work.
So I built a lead generating website with AI back in 2019.
I come from solar and roofing. So I'm a door knocker.
Somebody's microphone's on. Sorry, I have like ADHD. Just kind of distracts me sometimes.
No, so back in 2019, I got tired of door knocking. I was knocking doors, knocking doors as posting on Facebook.
And one of my friends who builds, he's like one of the smartest guys on computers that I know
since I was like in first grade, we got together, I showed him the website, you know, that I had
built and we fused it with AI. I was beating out so many companies and I was able to sell my leads to major solar companies,
roofing companies.
I think during COVID, I did like 50 houses of solar and roofing, which was kind of insane.
So AI with that, utilizing AI with SEO changed my life where I was able to do whatever I wanted on my own terms.
That my company has been acquired, but it absolutely can give you that life that you want.
And I really don't, I don't like working for other people.
I was really willing to do whatever it took.
And it was just, so I've been in love with AI ever since.
And I know that quality of life been in love with AI ever since. And I
know that quality of life that you really could gain from it. Awesome. I mean, yeah, I mean,
I think that's absolutely awesome. And I think the ability for everyone to have that potential,
right? Some people will want to do that. Some people will want to, you know, build new industries,
create new things, you know, do these things.
And there will be people who don't want to do that, which is fine.
Yeah. And and as a woman, you know, I would, you know, you go to guys houses, not just guys, you go to someone's house.
I mean, by yourself, you're door knocking as a woman.
I didn't want to put myself in dangerous situations because when you do come from door knocking, there is dangerous situations that I have been like people spitting in your face.
Like like one man literally slammed his fist on the table.
Like I was talking about how these new solar panels were chic and black and shiny and he slammed his hand on the table.
It's like, get the fuck out.
He's like, these are not nice solar panels.
They were like the nicest. They were already C360s. I think black on black, like screen TVs, like
turned off. And it really made me want to like create a safe place for people. So I'm really,
really blessed. And I, they're really, there's, yeah, people are losing their jobs, but then
there's also people definitely, you know, and it's AI is like a calculator. It's no different than a calculator.
It's just speeding things up for people to be more efficient and get, you know, more
things done.
I mean, I count with my hands because I have, you know, I'm like neurodivergent.
So when the calculator came out, I was like, oh, my gosh.
So it's like the same thing.
So I love this conversation.
Moby, I just followed you guys.
I also work in financial services and real estate during the day. So just working and I heard you guys talking and I love, I love these conversations.
Amazing. Thank you. I'm glad, I'm glad you came up. I see the previous account that you were
requesting from and there it's a, I wasn't sure if it was a troll account or not. I, I, I'm glad
that you came up on your, on your main account. Cause account because I don't know if I want that up here,
especially on a space that is meant to be family-friendly as well and has sponsors.
It's an online casino game.
I also come from gaming.
Right on.
So let's go to Decentra and then Captain Levi.
Oh, Louis, sorry.
Did you have anything to add there?
No, no.
I just want to compliment MetaReel.
I think that's an amazing story.
And I think it's inspiring that using AI allows people to really expand and scale their creativity in a way never before.
You know, it's just making, it's taking the
friction out of creativity. That's really powerful. So awesome. Way to go. Sorry.
And I think Metta Ruth touched on a really key piece here, and that is working for someone else.
I think the problem with a lot of work is the extraction of one's own work, whereas working for oneself, 100% of that is coming to you.
So you with a couple of AI agents, you are now your own force, your own company versus any other levels of management above you is simply extraction, which you're trading for organization, which may not be needed anymore.
Right. And I just want to make one comment,
because this is focused on AI, but blockchain technology and the whole crypto stuff is going
to allow sovereignty over our value. I mean, for me, you know, it's about, you know, we're a source
of value. And with crypto and blockchain, that's a new store of value. So instead of fiat currency continually bleeding our value out with inflation and stuff from central banks with their policies to drain our value out, we now have an opportunity with this new infrastructure of blockchain and crypto to really create a store of value that's beneficial to us, not just billionaires and oligarchs and everyone else.
And I think there's huge opportunity there,
especially when you scale it with AI,
but that's my soapbox.
Sorry,
go ahead.
Yeah.
And just one more thing,
like the beauty of it too,
was,
you know,
cause I'm not a contractor.
I don't go on the roofs.
Like,
I mean,
every once in a while,
but I was,
everybody was making money.
Like I was,
I was,
I built an AI sales organization and I was giving, I was pumping it to all these
big solar contractors.
So I was more like the goalie, like, Hey, I'm the fisherman.
I'm going to go out there.
I'm going to catch all these people who want solar right now.
And I was giving it out.
Everybody in Long Island, New York was eating.
And then something, I had an injury after that.
So I'm just rebuilding.
But it was a really great time.
And everybody could eat.
It's really interesting.
You know, it's like, yeah.
Cool.
Very powerful.
Decentra, you had your hand up.
Or at least I think you did.
I mean, okay. Just looking at work, if we go, just to go back, if we go back, you know, 500,000 years, work entailed getting food and reproducing.
But what you didn't see was massive accumulation.
So we just don't, we didn't need that. We could rest.
We could go and, you know, do art and do things that didn't have to produce anything.
And maybe we're going to trend back towards that, I think.
Yeah.
Didn't someone say that, you know, in the 15th century, they had more holidays than we do?
I mean, it's just crazy.
You know, when we were agrarian, you know, they had, you know, festivals for this and festivals for that.
You know, now, you know, stuck in a cubicle or hopefully we're out of that.
You know, just it's a shame.
I miss those days.
Oh, no, I'll take I'll take 2025 over any other period in history.
There's just so much available.
There's so many opportunities.
I think a lot of
people just don't realize it. I think a lot of people are stuck because I can guarantee,
I don't know, if I was born, you know, three decades earlier, I don't know what I would have
done. Because I feel like we were born at almost the perfect time. You had the internet revolution
and then the crypto revolution and then the crypto revolution
and then the AI revolution
all happening within our lifetimes.
So I'll take, you know,
I'll take 2025 anytime
over the festivals.
That said, we did have the crash in 2000.
We did have the 2008 crash.
We did have COVID.
I mean, it hasn't all been roses, you know.
But anyway.
Yeah.
Achilles, yeah.
So, Decentra, I love something you said earlier.
We were trading our working for organization.
And Ruth, as someone who owned a roofing company for years,
I have a lot of empathy for you
canvassers man you guys were like the the bread and butter who made the absolute least money
out of everyone concerned there so like props to you um I wanted to ask you guys like kind of a
group question I guess so the goal of Dapit currently right is to provide some organization
to what appears to me to be an unorganized AI system.
And while AI is inherently extremely powerful, right, what I'm seeing is it's kind of going
back to the same playbook where, like, companies are the ones coming in, creating front ends for
these AI models, and they're giving the organization that's required to actually get stuff done with these
things, right? Because like, if you can't get your AI to understand your prompt, you can't build
anything. And then you have to have skills that would require you to, you know, organize yourself
and that kind of thing. So what do you guys think about like these corporations or small companies
like myself, whatever, coming in to be the organization that ai inherently itself lacks
i i think this is a function of the current maturity curve of the technology
whenever we see new technology in its early days it's always too complex a bunch of people are the
only ones who know how to damn or use it and it breaks life right and and there's there's a lack
of infrastructure to use it adequately at a commercial
enterprise or consumer level and i think we're just seeing this we're in the early stages of this
development so so and there are massive opportunities like you found with dapit um now fight
you know three years from now or two years from now it'll i think it'll totally shift because
we'll have greater maturity in the infrastructure,
the frameworks and what's available,
but there will be more things we can then get access to
that have matured that enable us to be even more creative.
So I think we're just seeing,
we're riding this huge tsunami wave, right?
But it's passing by different things and it's maturing as it rolls forward.
That's my view. Yeah, I see that corporations, they're already in place and they already have
workers. Cool. Let's give those workers as much leverage as they can. And what are they doing now?
They're starting to lay off to shrink their worker base. Well, then what's the difference
of us just having smaller cottage industries
where we're all smaller teams with extreme leverage?
So things like this hackathon that you have,
like that's going to be incredible
because people are going to see what can we do?
Because to Ruth's point earlier that AI
is a juiced up calculator,
well, what were people doing with calculators
when they first came out?
They couldn't figure out a way to make money
other than leveraging it for their existing work.
Whereas this now, this is going to give us a lot more power than that calculator.
And a small team of people will be able to rival the largest corporations.
Yeah. And if you remember Sam Altman, I think it was in like 2021, his idea of the one person unicorn, right?
I think, yeah, you know, you've got companies in existence, enterprises are already there,
but I think the ability of an individual or a small group of people to now effectively
compete with these large corporations, that opportunity is now there like never before,
right?
I mean, you could see individuals in small small groups maybe a little cottage group of industry
that could totally wipe out major corporations because we now have this global infrastructure
that enables you to create an app push it out on the net get it global within 24 hours and
start collecting revenue like never before so it's huge. Go ahead.
Sorry, just to add one last thing.
I think all of those corporations that are effectively dinosaurs, where they're just sitting on their moats, their moat-protected property,
they're the ones that are going to be the most at risk.
Decentra, are you an Apple ecosystem guy?
Yes.
Have you used their AI?
I've kind of played with everything but otherwise i'm primarily uh android but for llms my favorite like noah is is chat gpt oh no yeah honestly me too um
gbt is i think actually like ways above and that's my point with apple is apple came into this game
and they have unlimited resources right these guys can literally put together a team of whoever they want.
And they came out with the most garbage AI I've ever seen.
And then you see like a, I don't know if you'd call it Anthropica startup,
but they definitely weren't an established company prior to AI coming out or OpenAI
and just blew everyone out of the water.
So like my main takeaway from all y'all's answers
is it's a sea change in the dynamic
of how corporations are able to affect the market, right?
Like you have to be able to create something good
and you can do that with a much smaller group.
That is interesting to see.
That's true.
Akilz, can I just, sorry.
That's a quick comment about Apple
because it's true.
When they first come out with something, it's usually crap.
They tend to be late to the market.
So just, you know, I have a wait and see approach because, you know, see what they come out with.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
I've got some information regarding that and you can take it or leave it, but Apple basically saw that had they integrated true quote-unquote Apple intelligence into their future hardware releases, that their monopolistic control of the market, which is already being under investigation by the FTC, would have just been like a slam dunk against it. So I think they purposefully
throttled AI.
They were there. They just couldn't
release it because they were already in hot water
with App Store and all that other shit.
Be careful when you discount Apple's
prowess in R&D. Sometimes
they stutter on purpose or
hallucinate, for lack of a better word.
I'll end. So when I say I'm an Apple
guy... Oh, sorry. Go ahead, guys. Okay. Alright, let me jump in real yeah so when i say i'm an apple guy oh sorry go
ahead guys okay all right let me jump in real quick when i say i'm an apple guy i'm an apple
guy like through and through every device i mean i've got the the studio it's my supercomputer
um i don't discount apple on many things but apple does stupendously fail occasionally right
yeah and we can talk about a few ways in which they've done that throughout history.
Apple, historically, when they do come out with a product, they are late to the game, right? And
they wait a very long time until they can guarantee its stability, its function, and its integration
in their ecosystem. I think, not to discount your opinion, 21, I think this time, like the reason
you just gave the monopoly i think
that's why apple carplay exists and there's no apple car i agree with you um in many aspects
right ai though man i think they got late to the game they did their absolute best to rush
something out and they messed it up like that is my humble opinion it's it's humbly it's humbly
in my humble opinion incorrect but doesn't matter we'll we'll find out
one day uh i'm pretty dialed into the company it was one of the reasons i became a multi-millionaire
um it's what i hear from from my sources inside the company uh it resonates with my work on on
with with israeli defense kind of private sector military sector sector. But like, you know, it doesn't matter.
It's two guys talking and I'm an Apple guy too.
So it makes sense because they started acquiring,
they literally started acquiring AI companies
before Steve Jobs died.
Like they saw it coming.
They knew it was coming.
So it's hard for them to fumble this.
And one day, you know, God willing,
we'll find out what really happened.
But that's what makes a market.
Thanks, Akil.
Yeah, I like the Newton message pad.
I don't know what everyone complained about it was.
Exactly.
The Newton was the iPhone.
Pre-iPhone, exactly.
It was an awesome thing.
But anyway, it died.
I want to see their VR system get a little bit more evolved, man.
Because they've got something there for sure.
Yeah.
Did you guys hear about Microsoft just signed a deal for like $17.4 billion with Nebius?
I think it was like last night Microsoft just did that deal.
What was the thing they signed it with?
With Nebius, N-E-B-I-U-S.
It was $17.4 billion dollar agreement and apparently stocks are going
through the roof um i think i read the article uh last night so microsoft is going insane with the
ai too and that's that's the cloud services right so nebius was the gpu powered ai cloud services
so they're buying infrastructure, right?
Which is what everyone's doing.
And we saw that the last seven day in headlines, massive billions going into infrastructure
because, you know, and also in the energy sector, that's why they're buying nuclear
reactors to power the damn thing.
So cloud is just exploding, right?
And everyone's trying to scope out because we know it's got a scale. And the
only way to scale is hardware. And that's why hardware has become political, right? Which is
also kind of weird in the space. But anyway, go ahead, 21.
No, I was wanting to ask Ruth how Microsoft was spelled. Is that the other small company
involved in the deal? You know, what we're seeing here is what I was basically to ask Ruth how Microsoft was spelled. Is that the other small company involved in the deal?
You know, what we're seeing here is what I was basically referring to with the end around.
All of huge tech and tens of thousands of, you know, one-man shops now, the new one-man shop,
are just running to the end, and everyone's just firing off.
And someone will get close, and you know the next wave
of companies huge tremendous behemoths uh will be born and there will be born here
uh you know the you know neural link for example these are things that are just going to explode
um and and it's just it's important for us to make sure that somebody doesn't, by hook or by crook, turn it into the end.
Because when everyone's running, people don't know where the end is or where the guardrails are and what you could expose.
And that's when we get into trouble.
So that's all.
I just hope we don't turn it into the 5% world or the 10% world.
You know, the godfather of AI, I forget the gentleman name but he basically thinks we're this is going to end bad and when
a guy like that thinks it's going to end bad you got to pay attention at a minimum sure sure i mean
that's that's you know i come back to this about community ethics you know and and making sure
we're doing good um with clarity you know i mean it's like you have to wake up and focus.
And, you know, it's challenging times, but let's all stay awake.
Let's all stay focused.
Let's all have fun.
You know, make sure we're moving this thing forward.
Couldn't agree more on the list.
No, we're coming up to the end of the hour.
We want to wrap it?
Yep, yep. Coming up to the end of the hour we want to wrap it yep yep coming up to the end of the hour i gotta gotta head out here before i do guys remember to follow all the speakers please
follow the moby account also lewis does a lot of great work in producing the show he has a weekly
newsletter that i've pinned to the top of the space. Please subscribe to his newsletter. He
puts out a lot of good stuff. I've learned a lot from Lewis over the last several weeks of
co-hosting the show together. Also remember on the second pin, Dappit is running a hackathon.
They're giving out five grand in prizes to 10 winners. You don't need to know how to code.
prizes to 10 winners you don't need to know how to code this is a a no code solution and so
feel free to participate and if you have any questions about details just dm achilles
hope you ever hope everyone has a good week one one last thing anyone if you go to the subscribe
area for my newsletter throw in your email i'll give you a month free access so uh yeah so we can all stay up to date on this stuff because it's moving so fast
thank you lewis take care everyone see you next week everyone thanks for listening see you next week Thank you.
