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Governance in DeFi with Full Sail
Recorded: July 19, 2025 Duration: 1:17:39Space Recording
Short Summary
Full Sail is launching a groundbreaking DEX on the Sui blockchain, combining innovative features from leading protocols and gearing up for its Token Generation Event. With a focus on community governance and lucrative yield opportunities, the platform is attracting significant interest, evidenced by over 2,000 participants in its prediction competition.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. so
hey everyone just uh waiting for a few speakers and everything.
Welcome and just hang out.
We should be starting shortly. Thank you. gm everyone jim jim sam tree jim jim keith billy christ code welcome yep i think we'll have to
wait for a couple of minutes Thank you. Thank you. Still here, still waiting, GM.
Just hopefully a couple more minutes, and we'll have Uber Geek joining us, hopefully.
Just hang out, grab a coffee.
See you soon. Thank you. Good morning.
Jim, Uber, welcome.
How are you? I I apologize being late it happens it happens it's the morning it's okay yeah Keith big me
FYI as a listener I wasn't able to hear anything
so i don't know if people just weren't talking or what
oh you didn't hear our gms or whatnot i didn't hear i didn't hear a thing
well let's let's ask the public can people hear us if you can hear us put put up your, uh, put out an emoji, please.
Oh, Oh, Oh, you're kind of, uh, you know, you, okay. Billy listens. Okay.
Oh, no.
Okay. Maybe it, maybe it fixed itself.
There we go. Okay.
It looks like people can hear us now. Yeah, I think we're good. Awesome.
Yeah. So welcome guys. Great to have you all. We're here to, you know, have a conversation with Full Sail.
position with Full Sail. There are decks on Sui to make trading more efficient through
smart liquidity and have this kind of voting that sort of helps users to earn more. So
today we'll have a full dive with Full Sail and see how everything works under the hood what makes a full sale unique and suey why
suey you know what's ahead for the project and you know get your questions ready and for active
participation you get the vine by joining discord a great protocol discord and and Vine is your access to earning rewards like
Bong, Jupe, Magic
Eden Tokens and Grip itself
so sit tight
let's go full sale
so Ubergeek
and Keith thanks for joining us
again and
I think we'd like to know first
breaking down full sale into something very simple for everybody to understand.
Because, you know, everyone would actually want to know what this is about.
Not everybody has gone through the docs or whatnot to understand full sale. So sort of a one liner that helps newcomers in DeFi to understand
what the project does and help clarify the vision in plain language. And probably a bit
backstory on the idea behind the project, how it came about and uh yeah oh this is perfectly timed i will let keith do this part
and then afterwards i can answer the questions and because i know keith is a little bit time
constrained but this is definitely a question for keith thank you for asking that first
cool um okay so put very simply in like you know phrase, I guess, Full Sail is just a very capital efficient DEX. DEX obviously being a place to go trade get really deep liquidity and really efficient liquidity pools.
What's cool about Full Sail and what's new and innovative and what makes it exciting is Full Sail is essentially like, I don't know if you guys know how Aerodrome works, but
it's essentially like Aerodrome mixed with Polymarket. So for anyone who's unaware, right,
Aerodrome is, you know, one of the biggest, like, kind of like new age or meta or
VE33 DEXs, however you want to describe them. That kind of like solved the, solved a piece of
kind of this DEX, you know, trilemma. And so we started off by kind of like looking, you know,
we got a grant from the Sui Foundation as, you know, a team, and they wanted us to build, you know, a fork of Aerodrome because everyone and their mother
is forking Aerodrome on whatever other chain that they can other than base, right?
Because people saw, you know, billions of dollars of liquidity, tens of billions of
dollars of trading volume.
And they're like, you know, I want that on my chain.
And so we initially did that,
and we were going to kind of build that,
just like build a simple fork and release it, right?
Because obviously it hadn't been built on move yet,
and that was the plan.
And so what we did was we kind of did an analysis,
and we looked at the efficiency and, like, you know,
the capital efficiency of the DEX,
like the efficiency and how much basically LPers earn, how much token holders earn, yada, yada, yada.
And we realized, you know, this Aerodrome model is good, right?
It's a big improvement from your pancake swap, sushi swap style decks, right?
Where you get, you know, 10 to 15% ROE, return on emissions, right?
And Aerodrome gets 47%.
But we were like, we can make this way more capital efficient
by tuning a couple of things and making some adjustments.
And so that's what we did.
And so I would say, I'm gonna just go over the,
like a couple of the major things that we've changed.
So for one, on an Aerodrome style DEX, you pay out a fixed amount
of emissions every week, right? So no matter how much, right, a DEX makes money back by getting
trading fees, right? And so if you're, let's say you're in a bull market, right? And, you know,
trading fees are really high. There's a lot of people trading tokens. There's a lot of volume. That's actually going to perform pretty
well, right? But there's a cap to how well it can perform because it can only emit a certain
amount of tokens. So let's just assume the price stays the same, right? And Aerodrome is going to
spend 500k in a bear market, 500k in a bull market. And so that means, you know, in a bear market,
you know, maybe they're spending 500k and getting back 100k, right? Which is a 20% ROE,
meaning like, that's not a good investment, right? If you were to spend, you know, 100 bucks on
something, you got back 20, and that's your investment, right? That's not really great.
And so, right, and now, like, you know, maybe they spend 500 K in a bull market and get
back 600 or 700 K. But maybe they could have spent another 50 K and got back another, you know,
a hundred K for that. And so on one end, you're leaving money on the table on the higher end
and on the lower end, you're way overspending. And so that was the first thing we tuned.
Our DEXs, our pools are completely
flexible with emissions, except, you know, there's a limit in how much they can go up or down every
week. But there's no absolute limit in the direction. So if there's a bear market, and we're
only making that 150k, we're likely only going to have to spend maybe 140k for that 150k.
150k, we're likely only going to have to spend maybe 140k for that 150k. And so that having
like a really high ROE is just better in the long run, because you're not like losing that
extra capital. And then the other thing is, the users on an aerodrome or velodrome are typically
either like, I either say like, you know, like they're either kind of like lazy, which I think
is like a very standard user behavior, right? They just lock their votes on a pool or they're
selfish, right? Like maybe you have your protocol that you have a liquidity pair for, right? And so
I'm the protocol, I'm going to buy a bunch of error tokens and vote on my pool. And so you don't really get any positive
information out of people, right? And so the users kind of don't really care that much about what's
happening. They're not putting emissions towards pools that are bringing the most value to the
decks. And so we aligned incentives with our users, right? If you when you use our decks,
you pick a pool, and you go vote on how much volume you think is going to be on the pool.
We aggregate all of those numbers to figure out, OK, everyone on average said there's going to be 10 million dollars of volume.
That means we need X amount of liquidity and that means we need X amount of emissions.
And so the Dex itself does all of that work for you and makes it really easy.
All you do is pick a pool, guess the volume. So that's the prediction market side of things.
And then we pay people out based on their accuracy.
So it's in your interest to get as accurate as possible
with your vote, because you're gonna earn
more than other people, right?
And then I would say like, just the last thing on that is like,
we will still have those simple options
where you can auto lock your vote.
But instead of just auto locking to a pool, you can auto lock to like, you know, we're going to have strategies.
So anyone can come to like, you know, if people want to, there's going to be like, you know, the small portion of people who want to create these strategies.
Like think like my team likes to do stuff like that, right?
Like tracking patterns of liquidity, patterns of volume, this, that,
like, you know, plus or minus, like adding, subtracting. Right. And then there's a couple
people who can do that. And then everyone else can follow whichever strategies they think are
going to be successful. So you can still be lazy if you want, but at least when you're being lazy,
you know, you're still giving us positive information. Um, but I'm going to stop rambling
here and let me know if all that made sense.
Yeah, sure, sure. I think it's pretty interesting to see you're trying to build something,
not just being another Dex.
This is pretty much unique.
And the part where you're trying to consider how users can actually focus
their liquidity on how best they can earn from it,
I think it's great to see.
And it sort of brings me to wonder, like, full sales concentrated liquidity, the dynamic swaps, you know, like how do all this, uh, fit together, uh, for everyday
traders and liquidity providers compared to other, uh, AMMs.
Uh, for instance, you know, putting together the, uh, uh, smart routing.
And, uh, when we talk about the fees, so these are not just, uh, stuffs you
put in on your platform because you want them to be there. But like you uh stuff you're putting on your platform because you
want them to be there but like you said you're trying to make sure that you make the most for
your users so uh could you break down for us like these pieces how they work together to solve real
pain points on uh older dexes that you're trying to you know introduce to your users and like how
that you're trying to introduce to your users
and like how there is this capital efficiency,
you know, for people who are looking at trying out full sale?
Man, that's a great question.
So like all of that,
like all these mechanics happening in the backend, right?
For the user, it's really simple.
All that basically all these mechanics are doing is figuring out how to make
sure there's the right amount of liquidity when users need it, right? A user being a trader in
this example, right? So all that this means is we're optimizing liquidity. So if I'm a user and
I want to go make a trade, right? I can make a trade for a low fee
and it's going to be very liquid and quick
and easy to trade on, right?
If I'm providing liquidity,
I'm going to earn a really high yield.
And if I'm voting with the token,
or also earning a token that I know has like a long,
like a longevity play, right?
And then if I'm voting with the token,
I know that I'm holding an asset
that's going to accrue a lot of value. So from the DEX perspective, like all of this is really simple.
Like, you know, the point is just to make sure there's enough liquidity where we need it.
The other cool thing is we're the only DEX on Stewie with dynamic trading fees. And what dynamic
trading fees do basically is they just like allow the trading fee to change based on the market to be more competitive.
And so having dynamic trading fees will mean that, you know, once our pools are a little bit bigger and we have a competitive amount of liquidity, we will create more volume than any other debts because we're able to compete more on our trading fees,
meaning we're able to optimize and get more routes from other trading.
And the reason we're able to get those routes is because we're aggregated with all these other
decks, meaning we can access anyone's liquidity, right? We can access any other SUI projects
liquidity from any other decks, and they also can access ours. And so we're just going to be picked
up by a lot more of those routes, so we're just going to be picked up
by a lot more of those routes
and we're going to have the right amount of liquidity
to support those trades when we do.
No, that's pretty much awesome.
So with the concentrated liquidity,
like it's not just, you know, set it and forget it anymore.
It's like active strategy like actively following uh your
asset and uh how does how does this uh you know help regular lp uh lps to you know manage their
price ranges so then they can actually you know maximize their earnings because i see there is
something that has to do with uh actually focusing your
liquidity for the best rewards and especially considering how fast the market can actually move
like are you planning any tools to actually make this easier for people who are not basically pro
traders uh i think i think that's pretty much interesting because a couple of people from the audience might not be pro traders, but they might want to know, like, how can you explain this part of focusing your liquidity, especially, you know, setting custom price ranges to probably, you know, boost your earnings.
you know, boost your earnings.
And I think that's pretty much an interesting thing
I personally would like to know
for people who are not pro traders like myself.
Yeah, so we're gonna be integrating
with as many ALMs as possible.
ALM stands for automated liquidity manager.
And so at the very beginning,
you're gonna have to manage your positions. But very
soon after, you'll also just be able to pick a strategy on your liquidity and do the AFK method.
Right. Like, I think with any of these things, like most of us just want to earn passive income,
right? Like I have other things going on in my life. I don't have time to manage my liquidity
positions all the time. I just want to put it somewhere, forget about it, and then come back and have more money.
And so you can get as sweaty as you want, right? Like if you want to make this your job and your
job is providing liquidity and you want to manage your positions all the time, make sure you're in
the money, make sure you're concentrated. And concentrated just literally means like your
assets are trading in a smaller range.
And so they're worth more. Right. The people, the sweaty people can do that. Right.
The rest of us can go like put our liquidity position in an ALM and it will move our liquidity around where it needs to be.
And you can keep those ranges as wide or thin as you feel comfortable.
wide or thin as you feel comfortable.
Hey, Keith.
So before we move on, actually, so Keith, I'm assuming you're a co-founder of Full Sail?
I'm not.
My team is serious people.
We're the quants.
We designed the financial mechanics for Full Sail.
Oh, nice. Nice. Okay, cool. Nice. uh we designed like the financial mechanics for full sale oh nice nice okay cool i just uh
uh nice uh what what have you done other protocols before um just out of curiosity like uh sounds like you're pretty serious in the business it's pretty cool yeah we've been in this space for
a really long time um i don't know if you remember on b&B chain, there was a DEX called ApeSwap.
That was the first big thing my team built.
That was years ago.
We did consulting for SushiSwap.
We did consulting for the Arbitrum DAO, Polygon.
We've been circling this space for five, six years as a team.
And, you know, we, I mean,
our team's only been together as this like, you know,
serious people team for like two years, but we've been around this space for a really long time building things.
Oh, cool. Cool. So you're, so basically full sale. I mean,
I'm just kind of a newbie and kind of a defy one not.
So I'm going to ask some kind of newbie questions.
So Full Sail, like 100% of the revenue goes back to the kind of VE token voters.
Is that correct?
You're spot on.
It's actually not 100, it's 95%.
5% goes into an insurance fund that basically just adds more liquidity to the DAX and is there.
that basically just adds more liquidity to the DEX and is there.
Basically, when we see a large unlock of tokens coming,
we can use that to support the token price.
But I would say that kind of is going back to the holder anyway.
So yeah, 100% of revenue goes to the VE holder.
And funny enough, the DEX only makes money off of the token as well.
So everyone is completely aligned
and the team is in the exact same spot as all of the token
holders nice so uh when when you're doing full sale i mean we're pre-tge here so uh that that's
cool so there's a lot of um alignment there which is which is awesome uh in terms of once there is
like a tge and kind of like season one two, I don't know how the release would happen
when you're starting to release a token, if there's a token.
Let's say, for example, Aerodrome.
I haven't dealt with Aerodrome.
I've heard a lot about Aerodrome.
Do future Aerodrome tokens go to the voters as well?
Or there's like a double thing fee plus token?
Yeah, yeah, no, I got you.
So that was like the major change that Aerodrome made from like your pancake swap.
So like that's the Aerodrome we consider to be like the third evolution of a dex,
you know, sushi swap, pancake swap, type dex being second second and then uni swap being the first right now just liquidity um so uh the question
was on like when are we like what is what is happening with the token right like we um what
we're doing is we have an interesting launch strategy so um right like how do people need to learn how to play this game so what we're
doing is right now and anyone in the community if you want to get involved now you can get involved
completely for free and earn the real token um and so we're doing a competition where people uh
can come mint like test sale and just go vote on these pools and then earn the real token.
And then to answer your other question, basically,
the liquidity providers or the LPs earn the protocol token.
They actually earn something called OSALE.
I'm not going to get into too many details on how exactly it works.
But you earn this token and then you can lock it and vote.
And then the voters earn the trading fees.
So people who own OSALE are voters earn the trading fees so people who own
o sale are earning the literal like trading fees of the platform or the revenue of full set
nice nice um yeah sounds pretty exciting i mean you know new new d5 protocol you know uh
something pretty uh innovative on SWE blockchain for sure.
And, you know, that's pretty exciting.
Now, let's say, for example, I'm going to just stick to my newbie hat here, which I am.
I actually am. So let's just say first time doing voting.
And let's just say somebody like what, like, like, for example, like right now, the dominant
pool right now is a SWE USD pool or a USDC pool, right?
So, you know, help me through like kind of like game theory and whatnot, like, because I don't know anything about the game theory of voting.
Like, what are some of the strategies involved, if you can describe some, that like do not involve you predicting the SUI USDC pool and whatnot?
involve you uh predicting the suey uscc pool and whatnot and why why you know why would you not
like do anything else but vote for that one and you know oh i got you yeah yeah yeah so how do
you how do you pick a pool to vote on right is what you're saying um yeah sure so other than
like obviously you see the number it's like you know it's the biggest number like why would you vote for anything else other than the largest number yeah so okay um so the
way you pick pools is basically uh based on how much volume you expect the pool to have
compared to how many voters are in it right so um right let's say let's say there's two
pools that you think are both going to make 100K of profits, right?
But one of them has 50,000 voters and the other one has 100,000 voters.
I'm going to pick the pool that has 50,000 voters because then I only have to compete with 50,000 people instead of competing with 100,000 people and my chances of making more money are higher.
Does that make sense?
Sir, so is it like a zero sum, like at the end of the epoch it's a zero sum game like hey there's
like one winner one pool one prediction like like no no no no no no each pool each pool acts
these are great questions each pool can act completely as its own competition right so the
smaller the pools with less volume are going to have less revenue so there's going to be less
participants but those participants are all competing for all of the volume in that pool. Right. And then
like the other thing, like when I say polymarket, you think polymarket, if I'm betting on something,
I can lose money. Right. You can't lose your bet, your buy-in. You can't lose your tokens. Right.
You can only earn more or less of the trading fees in the pools. So each
pool acts separately, each pool is its own little competition, right? And then you can't lose money,
you can only gain less money than someone else. Does that make sense?
Sure. So let's say I'm like the worst predictor on there. i i i predict a volume that's like really off like
what's my let's say in that pool like let's say for example there's 100 pie like how much would
i receive in terms of that emission or uh at the end of the epoch like you know let's just say you're
bad at it and let's say and also reverse like how much if i'm like bang on, how much would I expect to gain from like being like super accurate at the end of the.
OK, yeah. So so basically the payout range is determined by the actual amount of volume.
So let's say there's 10 million dollars of volume. The payout is any any vote between zero0 and $20 million, right? All of those people get paid. So you can be pretty
far away and get paid still. If you're like voting, you know, 50 million, right? You're not
going to get paid anything, right? But if you're just kind of like, there's a lot of trends,
it's really easy to get kind of a basic vote in, right? You can just look at the liquidity for the
volume from the last week and vote
the same thing. And you're probably going to be within the range.
And then how the payouts work is the worst payout person is going to get
what, like one eighth of the best payout person.
So you can earn eight times more than the worst voter if you have the best
vote.
Oh, really cool.
So you're using your voting power.
Let's just say there's six liquidity pools.
So let's just say, for example, you have a 10,000 VE sale, right?
Is it to your advantage to like unless you like really know
something like you would put like a hundred percent right of your voting power and maybe
like a bet that you know it's a lock but if you want to be like speculative do you want to like
separate that into you know 15 here and there so you have like more bets and and like you kind of
like uh spread risk like is it am i kind of starting to think about this correctly here
or am I off in terms of like strategy?
No, you're right.
You're right.
And any strategy, honestly, what's funny is like
you can have the most calculated strategy
and get beat by like the most like smooth brain strategy possible, right?
Someone could just be like,
oh, I'm going to vote the same volume next week as this week.
And someone can do like market analysis and like expectation,
the liquidity to volume ratios and markets and sentiment,
whatever the hell they want and come up with a different number and probably
lose. And so not probably like, you know, could, could still lose. Right.
So what's cool about the payouts, right.
Is if you don't have as much money as someone like, let's say coffee,
you have, you know, 80K and I only have
10K. Right. But I have a really good vote and you have a really bad vote. Right. We're going to get
paid the same. And so it gives people, you know, there's a lot of ways to make money here. Right.
If you put in more money and you vote really lazy and, you know, hope for the best, you can put in
a little bit of money and get really good at voting. But I think you're thinking about the
strategy is exactly right.
Nice.
Yeah, thanks man.
Yeah, and talking about losing,
this is DeFi for sure.
And people like to know,
let's go straight to risk management.
The heart of any lending and DeFi protocol generally,
we also have to consider sharp price swings.
They're pretty much common.
So is there a form of safeguard Full Sail has to sort of protect users, any sort of thing?
Yeah.
So that's what I was saying when not 100% of fees go to the VE token holders, 5% goes
towards providing liquidity that can be pulled anytime to support token price.
The one other thing I would say like the best um the best safeguard really is just good planning and good
tokenomics um meaning like you know just balancing supply and demand right like you know anytime you
see a project you know airdropping at the huge portion of tokens you know eventually people are
going to sell those tokens and those tokens are going to bring the price down right uh large
farming you know events right like people overpaying for liquidity basically
pushing a bunch of free tokens in the ecosystem brings your token price down um and so that's
something that we're not doing right uh we're launching with a fair launch so all of like all
of the liquid sale is going to be in a liquidity pool so actually until some of these emissions are
created after the first week, the token price
can't even go down below starting price. Like mathematically it can't because there's no one
who can sell. And then you have way more incentives to hold this token because you're earning all the
fees. So what you earn as a liquidity provider is a token called OSAIL. We say it's an option token, but it's more of a coupon.
And so if you, you can either lock up this token and be a voter, right?
Which is the best action we could possibly ask.
And you get to keep all of your voting power or all of your tokens,
or you can pay a 50% exercise fee, leave and then liquidate your token.
But the 50% exercise fee gets paid to all of the VE
saleholders. So anytime
someone leaves, they're paying everyone
who's staying. And so
yeah, like
these large
events of people leaving the ecosystem
actually could have positive
appreciation on the token.
I want to add something, i think because i think you
i'm not sure but correct me if i'm wrong uh he was talking about liquidities and uh if you're
getting out of range and stuff like that i want to add one thing i don't know who asked was that
christ code who asked that question or coffee on sorry what the question uh just asked was that price code yeah yeah okay the the one thing is is
it's important to know is on our decks we don't do memes we only have blue chips we only have six
pairs when we go live and we want to have deep liquidity on them these pools are deep suey uh Deep, Sui, Walrus Sui, Sui USDC, Rep Bitcoin USDC, Rep Eat USDC.
And yeah, and there are so many strategies.
In our Discord, if you join our Discord, there's a tunnel, the deck pool.
And there's a lot of strategies being explained.
People talk about certain strategies.
But yeah, there's always a risk, right?
That you go out of range or whatever,
what happens or impermanent loss.
But the rewards will cover probably,
will cover for what I understand,
your impermanent loss.
But also if you're going into a pool in USDC,
wrapped EAT, for example, and EAT pumps, then you're getting a lot of USDC because it's
selling off your EAT right that that's what happens that's what means when you go out of range
it stops trading but you will have USDC left if you have a meme for example and the chart pumps
that you're getting then you're happy but the chart tanks, you are stuck with a meme and
then you need to pray to the crypto gods that the token doesn't die because else you will
be stuck with a bag of dust because those tokens are worthless. And that's the main
reason we're having more, yeah, we basically have blue chips more stable cryptos even in heavy
swings uh you won't get hurt that bad because if the market goes down you're getting more wrapped
eat and if the market goes up you're getting more usdc and everybody understands for now that
eat is not going anywhere even if it goes down, right?
If it dips, if that makes sense, what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, sure.
Sure.
Sure.
Pretty much.
And, uh, just, uh, to add to this, uh, what is the purpose of, you know, the governance?
Like what is this, uh, active participation by users?
Is it visible to the public? Like, can everybody just see what's going on? what this active participation by users,
is it visible to the public?
Like, can everybody just see what's going on?
Like how people are participating?
And you know, like the insights to the protocol,
like how, what exactly is the protocol trying to,
you know, overall achieve with this whole module?
And I think that's the first
question i would love to ask yeah i mean we're planning on being as transparent as possible with
um voting with uh liquidity with all of these pieces right like we're even having a look we're
gonna have the first like liquidity locking program where you, you'll be able to visualize how, like how much liquidity is locked and for how
long. Um, and what this does is it prevents like, you know,
if, if someone has like a,
if someone has a whale in a pool and pulls their liquidity all at once,
right. It can negatively affect the other traders in the pool. Um,
and so if you know when those things
are coming as a protocol or as a trader, you know, as a trader, maybe you're a smaller liquidity
provider, you have an opportunity to move your liquidity before that happens. And as a protocol,
you have an opportunity to entice, you know, a bigger amount of liquidity to lock up. So let's
say, you know, I know there's like a big, you know, 70% of my pool is unlocking
in a month, right? Now I have a month to figure out how to get someone to supply and make up for
that liquidity kind of leaving. Or even incentivize those people to relock, right?
100%. Oh, awesome. Awesome. So in terms of security and risk,
like about your smart contract,
you know, DeFi generally is risky.
And can you break down how safe is safe?
You know, what's the reality check for LP
who might not actually realize that,
you know, they need to manage their ranges
or the implement losses? You know, they need to manage their ranges or the improvement losses,
you know, like how can this eat into earnings if they're not careful?
And also curious to know if there are any risk of attacks like sandwich
Sandwich attacks, like how safe is safe with full sale?
Yeah, I mean, well, we were audited by the best auditor on SUI called Asymptotic or
Asymptotic, something like that.
I would say in terms of like IL risk or impermanent loss risk or like risk on a pool,
it's going to be very similar to any other concentrated liquidity, AMM.
So there's always some type of potential risk, no matter what decks you're trading on.
But we have minimized that as low as humanly possible.
And also what I just stated, right?
We have only the blue chips.
These are cryptos who are not going to die overnight.
ETH and Bitcoin are going nowhere. So these are cryptos who are not going to die overnight eat and bitcoin are going nowhere so these are pools pretty safe pools and we also have a stable pool usdt usdc but it's also
depending on the user itself right if you are a pure degen and you're setting really narrow uh
narrow ranges the the chance that you go out of range is high.
Oh, I will pull him up.
Yeah, sure.
There will always be people like that, yeah.
Yeah.
And I think Green Cup,
he's a really good friend of mine
and he's an expert in this stuff.
So I think he wants to interact as well.
Green, welcome. Good morning.
Good morning, everybody. Keith, i just had one question how how is the dynamic fees gonna work um like uh in
different situations uh you know stable flat line pool versus if suey's going up or suey's going down
because everything's backed by technically a stable, right? So how is the dynamic fees going to sway as well
with the price movement or price action?
So it's less correlated to price action
and more correlated to volume or traffic, I guess, of traders.
So it's able to, I believe,
so when there's a lot of volume, um, we're able to,
uh, raise the trading fee and earn a little bit more yield, right?
Because like there's more traffic and there's like, that's when it's kind of easier to pick
up and earn more money.
And then when volume's down, uh, it'll adjust,'ll adjust the other direction and making cheaper so that there's less competition so you can pick up more trades.
It's more volume dependent.
Well, I'll jump in here. So now this VSAIL test token, I mean, this is pretty much like, is this how it's going to look when it's live? Like this prediction model and the kind of fun game we're playing here? Is this basically once this competition is over and let's just say the TG happens, is this is this how it's going to pretty much look like this is
I'll jump in here.
um this is kind of like the like the test um uh like uh competition for the like the like when
everything goes live yeah so um if you look at the front end right now like you can see certain
information on the pools and whatnot right um as we we're going along, we're updating things.
So I would say it will look very similar to this.
I would call it like kind of V1 right now.
And we're going to be upgrading and making everything.
Like we want to give, we want to arm our users with as much information as possible
so they can make the best predictions possible.
So we're going to be showing past liquidity, past volume trends,
whatever information you wanna be able to see,
you're gonna be able to see.
And I'm imagining the UX is gonna be updated constantly
to make it easier and more clear to all of our users.
But how it looks right now is definitely
like how V1 will start off.
And I was just riffing off of Uber Geek.
So, like, he was talking about in-range, out-range.
Like, if you're, like, out of range, do you stop receiving kind of voting power?
Or how does that work?
Like, do you still receive voting power?
Do you receive less voting power?
Let's just say you're in the liquidity pool and you're just out of range.
Like, you know, like, how, like if you're, if you're in the liquidity pool and you're
out of range, you're just not going to earn any fees for that time where you're out of
range, right?
Then you can move your liquidity back into range and you're going to earn trading fees
again.
Obviously it doesn't make sense as a DEX to pay people who have liquidity that isn't being
utilized.
So your liquidity just has to be in the range where it's being utilized
and you'll get paid on that liquidity.
Cool, cool.
And, you know, like I was peeping the kind of,
is there any metrics right now we can find
in terms of helping to better make predictions and whatnot?
Because I was looking at one of the medium articles
in terms of predictions and they're saying, well uh you can collect kind of the average turnover you can you can spot the tbl
trend you can see you know like a line that's going up when i like how how do you how do you
spot like is there any like metrics or like visualizations you can see like how how the
performance or uh the liquidity and the trends and and whatnot change over time as of right now?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think you can find some on the Twitter.
There's also a Discord channel for that.
And as we have more, you know,
available to like better ways to show this information,
we're going to be adding those as well.
So like nothing is going to be held from anyone.
So like everyone, you know, everyone has, you know, the least amount of information they're ever going to have adding those as well. So nothing is going to be held from anyone. So everyone has the least amount of information
they're ever going to have right now.
But as we all get better, people share information
with each other.
And as a team, we're going to be doing our best
to show all of the information to everyone.
And so the second that we have more information,
we'll be sharing that with everyone as well so
everyone's on the same you know playing field that's pretty much uh insightful and uh just a
quick one to add to what coffee just asked uh do you have any plans for uh you know like what's the uh incentives for early adopters
of uh full sale and uh what we're looking at uh in the next coming months or should i say
uh the rest of the year and uh the uh token uh of the platform uh. What generally is the community expected to see
in the coming months with full sale
and sort of incentives for people who are here early
than a whole lot of others who are likely going to be part of what you're building,
because I see you're building something that is not just a regular Dex.
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Like number one is we're doing this competition right now.
We're giving away just to the community, you know, 100K of tokens, right?
So you can come and just play the game for free and earn tokens.
And then when we go live, you know, you get tokens that you can vote with.
You can do whatever you want with.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is
if you're a liquidity provider,
no matter what size liquidity you have,
we're doing an early locking program.
And so there's going to be opportunities
to get bonus yield if you're in early.
And so those go from 3, six, nine, 12 months.
This will be posted on the Twitter next week.
So you guys are actually getting this information
before everyone else.
But you get, it's I think 12, 25, 35,
and 50% bonus yield,
depending on how long you lock for.
So if you want to come earn extra, like earn extra yield off of your liquidity,
if you get it now, that's your opportunity to do so.
Nice, nice.
And I've got a question in terms of, like, for example, again,
I'm quite new to this whole dynamic.
So how would it work, like, in terms of, like, bribing?
Like, how does bribing work in this kind of DeFi protocol that sounds like a fun concept?
Yeah, it's a great question because bribing does not work the same way at all.
the same way at all um and the reason for that is like uh if you're able to bribe the ve token holders
um whenever you want right it kind of ruins the point of like these pools balancing and
determining liquidity off of volume and so we weren't able to go with that old like you know
the way like these three three models work um And so you actually, and this is kind of
what I was getting into a little bit before with like, it's kind of, we're basically using bribes
as like what we call like another security measure. So you bribe liquidity providers
to hold or to lock in your liquidity. So if I'm a project, I want to make sure I have liquidity for the
long term. So maybe I will take a certain portion of my tokens and I'll bribe a big liquidity
provider to lock their liquidity for six months. And then I can see that this liquidity is locked
and I know when it's unlocking. And so it provides like a safety layer for all the other LPs
where they know that there's not going to be like a huge move in liquidity.
And then, you know, you can see when that liquidity is moving.
And now as a project, you know, six months is up,
I can bribe another liquidity provider or the same liquidity provider
either locked for longer, locked more, or relock.
Interesting. Quick question about V tokens. Will they be tradable? Can you,
can you, um, like what's, uh, what can you do with the V token other than voting?
Can you do anything else or just like literally, um, yeah,
no, it's a good question. So out the gate, it's, I mean, it's a V,
it's a locked token, right? It's not liquid on its own. So there's, there's no like market, we're not going to be opening a market for the VE tokens out the gate, but we're going to be building one so that people can trade and offload those.
sale is worth more, right? Cause it's not locked and you, you know, I can trade it and it's liquid,
but there's definitely a value. We're expecting the value of VE sale to be somewhere around 25%
less than liquid sale. Cause that's how those markets work in other, you know, in aerodrome.
Um, and so, yeah, it won't be right out the gate, but we will be bringing that in soon.
we will be bringing that in soon.
Very cool.
And, yeah, let's move on to, you know, the kind of big, well,
the big promo you guys have now, the competition.
How's the competition going?
We're, what, week two, I believe?
How's that going?
What's the feedback like?
Like, from, I guess, a technical perspective,
also community perspective.
So open it up both of you.
I'm going to,
Uber geek,
if you don't mind,
I'm going to,
I'm going to leave this one with you guys.
I have to run.
I'm like supposed to get to a dinner.
It's almost 6 PM.
And,
I am already going over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thanks Keith.
Appreciate it, man. Uh, great chatting with you all. Yeah, you did fantastic. thank you so much appreciate it man
great chatting with you all
yeah you did fantastic and thanks for
answering all the questions
are you
you said 6pm what time zone are you in
oh yeah
I am in Greece are you
yeah
we're in Greece
let's catch up after the call.
Yeah, send me a DM.
I'll let you know.
I'll let you know my plans are.
I'll be in Greece for a little while.
We can link up.
All right.
Cheers, y'all.
Cheers.
Enjoy your dinner.
Thanks, Keith.
Have a good one.
All right, Uber.
So perfect, perfect opening for the the competition how's that going from
your perspective like um you know how's how's it going i believe our week two how's it going
yeah we're getting a lot of feedback and we're actually uh pretty impressed
and very humbled about the amount of people who signed up
specifically for the first epoch.
We were not expecting that amount of people signing up for it.
So that's amazing.
We had, to be honest, the numbers we had in mind were around,
I think between 300, 400, 200, 400 people.
That's what we were estimating.
But the actual numbers after filtering and
vetting a lot of wallets, because we don't want all those
bots getting in, right?
We are sitting around 2,000 people signed up for the
first epoch.
Second epoch, I don't have the numbers in my mind, but we
are still, people are going, more people are participating.
And if you miss the first or second epoch, that's not a
big deal, because the biggest prices will be handing out
the third and the last epoch.
The first epoch was 10% of the total pool,
price pool,
the second is 20%,
then 30%,
and then 40%.
So yeah,
it's been really busy.
We had a lot of questions, people who participated in the Sealy Quest,
how they signed up with the code, the project code, right,
to support your project and the community you want to be in
and earn some more Vsail tokens.
And yeah, we're really, really stoked about this.
Moderators are pretty busy with all the questions,
but it's calming down now.
But it's been amazing.
Very cool.
Just FYI, Grape is
a part of
this competition and you can sign up
with, I believe it's grape
underscore FS.
I've done that myself.
I'm participating and that's a lot
of fun.
Now, in terms of EPOC1, is there any way to find out like how,
what were the final results and how, you know,
somebody personally did in terms of their prediction power or, and then, you know, how much, you know,
they received in terms of like the results?
The results of the of how the voting was
yeah there will be
a dashboard coming live soon
I think that dashboard
I cannot speak for the
devs though I think
next week sometime the dashboard will go
live and then people
can completely track how the voting
went where they are located on the
leaderboard and everything else.
Yeah, cool.
Because for somebody who's like me and I'm sure other people, this is the first kind of, in my limited understanding, this is the first kind of AeroDrum type of DeFi protocol on Sui.
on suey so it might be new to a lot of people right uh so very interested in getting kind of
So it might be new to a lot of people, right?
that feedback and kind of just uh using this this competition to um hone in your voting and in your
your strategy so that's really cool um any any stories to tell like other than uh like you know
any kind of fun whale games happened or somebody predicted something and then they just added liquidity in and to hit the targets or or any kind of fun kind of like wild stuff like that happened yet.
Yeah adding the liquidity doesn't give you points right it gives you more voting power because you will be eligible for more tokens right e-sale tokens test tokens and it's those snapshots are being taken randomly
the first week was really crazy because zili doesn't do the airdrops for you right so we
have to do that manually we need to extract all the informations and and then digest the information
and then airdrop the people who actually participate in the zili quest and that's the same in our
pools we need to make snapshots randomly and
the wallets in the liquidity the wallets who added liquidity to those pools will get those
additional tokens uh manipulate i think if you put a million dollars in usdt usdc for example
uh it doesn't do anything for you besides getting a shitload of tokens, additional test tokens.
But it's not influenceable on volume unless you start watch trading, right?
If you start making trades every 10 seconds and then you can artificially pump the volume.
Yeah, I wonder if you can do that.
I mean, I guess, is there a way to manipulate the kind of like, I don't know.
I mean, I'm just, I'm just wondering because, you know, a lot, a lot of these, a lot of these competitions,
well, I don't know about competitions, but, you know, DeFi, whatnot is defined a lot by kind of whales and whatnot.
I'm just wondering if there's been any fun whale stories that you can, you can tell,
but it sounds like it's pretty good and there's 2 000 uh participants um what's the
feedback like so far the feedback in the space we had last thursday it's an uh it's a pretty
pretty straightforward process for what i hear back right i i didn't participate even yet i'm
too busy but uh it, but it's very intuitive
and it's easy to use.
That's the feedback I'm getting.
But if there's any other feedback, yeah, please let me
know so I can get
every feedback is welcome, right? Because we
want to improve and grow this ecosystem
together.
Very nice. How was your
experience yourself?
Yeah, it's pretty good i mean um i uh kind of um
i kind of made some newbie errors and whatnot in terms of uh predicting and uh that i'm kind of
uh changing right now for epoch 2 so uh but everything in terms of the front end and locking and using the platform is very simple and very easy.
So kudos to you guys.
And it seems like everything is working quite well.
Judging from somebody who's pretty new to it, it's a lot of fun to to kind of experience it and i'd love to find out how uh you know all this all this plays out in terms of once everything goes
goes live but i'm sure there's a lot of people who uh you know locked in uh let's just say who
deep and sweet uh like last last epoch and they're quite happy now like the price action has been
kind of crazy so um but i wonder I'm openly wondering if, you know,
like people who are put in the LP for SUI USDC,
I mean, I wonder if there's a lot of people
who are kind of just in USDC right now
due to the huge pump.
So that's, I don't know if you heard any stories from that,
but I can say just full marks right now.
Full sale is really kind of, it doesn't look like there's been any kind of hiccups from, from my perspective.
It looks like it's very nice and smooth.
Yeah.
And this is one thing I definitely, because this is a lot of questions we're
getting, right?
It's a competition and in competitions you have losers, but in this competition,
there are no losers.
The only thing that we have is people can make a little bit less of the prize pool, of the tokens.
That's the only thing. There is zero risk. You don't lose money.
You're doing the silly quest and if you are smart, you're joining a community.
And in this case, you will use grape underscore FS.
You join the team.
You're getting a little bit more voting power and you vote.
And you try to vote as accurate as possible.
And in the discord, there is a channel where they talk about these kinds of strategies, how to vote and how to set up pools and stuff like that.
Or add to the liquidity pools.
And you cannot lose anything because you're
getting the stout that's airdropped.
You vote and you will get a little bit
back. And the more accurate
you vote,
the more you get.
So basically, it's
just a fun engagement
for the community to be around
and have some fun with it
and learn how the platform works
and if you look at the currently
APRs on the pools
these are just trading fees
APRs right, this is nothing to do with anything
because our governance needs to go live
and then
the real
and more liquidity will come
as well yeah and uh just a quick question the the conversion like how does it work is there a
formula for uh the lp and uh you know based on your lp how many tokens you get, the whole process with claiming, how does it work for
people who are not yet familiar with the competition. I'm sure there are probably
people here who haven't tried it out and you know the whole steps and how this conversion works,
what is the whole process, could you just make it a bit clear for new people on sui
and people who haven't tried out full sale so they could you know be part of it
you talk about the uh i hope i will try to answer this question you mean you need to have
of course you need you need to have a suI wallet or an incompatible SUI ecosystem wallet, Knightly, Phantom,
SUI at Slush, or Backpack.
And then you can use those wallets to connect that to Zili.
And then you do the quest on Zili.
And then you will get those test tokens automatically
airdropped after completion of the
Zili quest. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah and also how the conversion you know like
is there a formula for the tokens the test tokens that they get?
It's not a formula I think it's in the Zili quest. To be honest, I didn't do the Zili quest
myself yet. I still need to do it. But there is a certain amount for certain tasks you do within
Zili. I know if you join a community, you're getting an additional token amount. But the
amounts I need to look back, I don't know them from my mind. But it's not a formula it's just a fixed amount of tokens you get
uh so in terms of the zili quest let's say people who who've done uh you know the initial zili
quest and whatnot and they got the initial distribution uh will there be like is that like a one-time uh test token distribution uh or there'll be like
uh like it's is it every epoch like you'll get more and more uh tokens like uh like like from
the zedley quests or um or there'll be more quests no that's this is the one-time initiative you get
those tokens the only way to get more tokens is adding into the liquidity pools.
Sounds good.
Sounds good.
Is there any...
We're going to...
Oh, go ahead, Weber.
Go ahead.
I just see Bonnie comes up.
She is one of the co-founders of Fullset.
So good morning.
Welcome, Bonnie, to the stage. Hey, guys. How'sset. So good morning. Welcome Bonnie to the stage.
Hey guys, how's it going?
Good morning.
See a lot of familiar faces here.
What's up Intrinsica?
Yo, what's up Firewater?
What's up Blockchain Maxis, Greencup?
There's a lot of friends.
That guy who's a smiling face and electric thing.
I've seen you a bunch before.
Good to see everybody.
And nice to meet you, Sky Alpha Buck.
I see a lot of familiar faces here. Hope you're all doing well. and nice to meet you sky alpha buck i see a lot of familiar faces
here i hope you're all doing well uh really nice to meet you guys uh great protocol you know it's
a great protocol and it's a great protocol you guys we we use puns all the time uh in our in our
grape uh discord so you'll fit right in if you want to join us.
We always end with grape call, everyone.
Instead of saying grape, grape, and we use grape all the time.
And it's just, we have a lot of good times.
I love that.
So yeah, GM, yeah, how is it going from your perspective
in terms of full sale kind of semi going live
with this prediction competition?
And how is it going from your perspective?
Yeah, so we're, so, you know, full sail's a boat.
So, you know, it's all built.
And, you know, we're getting it ready to leave the dock.
We're getting our anchor ready.
So next week our liquidity anchoring program's going live.
And that's going to be, that's going to's going to be a very lucrative way for
people to try to make LP money, lock in their yields. Early LPers, like people who are LPing
today are going to get whitelisted for Tranche One, which is going to have the best boosts.
And we're just, you know, we're finalizing a bunch of major LP deals close to our TGE,
which is in a few weeks, which is really exciting. So yeah, I think TGE is when we really see
ourselves setting sail. Today, we're the most capital efficient DEX on SUI, and by TGE,
we're the most capital efficient DEX in De you know, we're modeling around 200% the capital efficiency of the Aerodrome model.
So, you know, we're a combination of Polymarket and Aerodrome.
If their baby was also like Olympian trained for trained for disinflationary.
So we cut out, for me, that Olympian training is to make it non-inflationary.
So yeah, that's full sale.
That's how we got 200% the capital efficiency.
And a lot of people are having fun today because we launched our prediction games.
That's a good way to earn money, earn early VE sale.
And yeah, so I love, I'm happy to be here, you guys. Uber Geek is our amazing, like, head of
partnerships. He does BD for us and partnerships, and he's been such a, he reason to like, he really shows how the value of, of, of, of growing deep
relationships and trust within an ecosystem. Uh, like he's because when we hired him as partnerships,
you know, and we brought him in and he got, he got all integrated. It was just like,
And we brought him in and he got all integrated.
It was just like he was able β he already had all those relationships.
So anyone, I'd say, who's looking to build a career in DeFi,
just keep doing what you want to do and be passionate and get involved
in what you're interested in.
And then keep networking.
And then when you find the opportunity that's right for you,
he's a leader at Full Sail.
And because of the power of the work that he does in leading partnerships,
we're so glad to have him here.
So yeah, Uber Geek is great.
Definitely amazing. By the way, you mentioned, Keith was here and he was talking about Polymarket, Aerodrome, the prediction market and whatnot.
you would use your VE tokens to kind of dictate,
the community would dictate where the fees,
rewards would go to.
Now, I guess when you're talking about the Polymarket meets Aerodrome
is this prediction model type of deal.
So you just add an extra layer, right?
Is that the main difference between basically full sale and anyone
else? Yeah, well, that's one of the innovations we brought on. I think from a UX perspective,
that's the thing you guys are going to notice the most. Like there's a lot of things that we've done
to increase the capital efficiency. But from a UX perspective, the fact that we use the voting data
in the VE33 models, they don't use the voting data.
They just kind of, it was established initially
just as like a policy loophole.
When back in the predatory policy days,
it was established as a policy loophole for their tokens.
But we were the ones who were saying,
hey, you know, data is very valuable.
So what if we used data to better allocate our incentives, right?
So Airdrum type models will allocate pools the same.
And we will allocate based off of volume and people who are accurately voting will earn the most rewards.
So there's a lot of incentive alignment there.
Another level that people have been liking when I talk about is what happens when we
turn on governions.
Can you guys still hear me?
Absolutely.
Cool. So when we turn on governions, which is a term glupta coined,
is we're going to have in our marketplace different AI voting strategies that people can compete to
offer to people.
This is an AI
policy-driven strategy
that people can use to delegate
their voting.
That's coming on in
a few months.
That's fun. Will there be different
AI strategies? There, hey, like, there'll
be like one, is it be like, hey, hand it off to AI, and then I will handle it? Or do you be like,
okay, there's like, AI has five different strategies or whatnot, you pick from it?
Yeah, no, so it'll be like, you can choose different, like people will, there's going to
be a marketplace of different strategies and like a leaderboard.
And like people can, for accuracy and like the strategies will be built on different
things.
Like one of them I'm sure will be like market sentiment and another one will be like just
pure math and like just different versions and different ways.
And like for a small fee, people can delegate to reward the people funding the AI bots people can
delegate to them for their voting strategy and I think and you know I think that you know we
wanted to make it easy for people wanted to and wanted to well you know we're really mark we really
rely on the efficiency of the market here and the fact that people try to do what's in their best interest.
And we also want to make it easy and comfortable for people too. So we gave ourselves a few months to get data on just people voting and then we're going to be and hit TGE and all this stuff. And
then we're going to be rolling that out. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. And this has been pretty much insightful. And just before we ask if there's anybody in the audience who'd like to, you know, ask a question, I think it's pretty interesting what you shared.
for the rest of the year. I see you have this thing with AI and the TG coming. So
what is there any other teaser for the community in the coming months for the rest of the year?
And, you know, for new users who would like to be part of Full Sail?
Yeah, so we, I think the best if for people who want to get be part of Full Sail? Yeah. I think the best
for people who want to be part of Full Sail,
I think getting involved
in early LPing is
going to be a very
easy way to
get yourselves in early
and reap a lot
of rewards from you.
Someone rang my door.
Can you guys hear my dog?
Yes. Not the doorbell.
Yeah.
She's so cute.
She's just the laviest little baby girl.
And anyway,
so I think that's a great way to be involved.
When we open up our pools,
we're only dropping like 3% of the token supply.
So it's going to be low float and low FDV.
We've thought a lot about what we feel like our main contribution to DeFi is, is protocol sustainability. So the inherent logic
of Full Sail is that is ROE for every dollar we spend, we make more than a dollar in return.
And so with that, like we, we have designed it for long-term sustainability. So the inherent logic of Full Sail is disinflationary.
They don't let me use the word deflationary, but they let me use the word disinflationary.
So it's really interesting financial mechanics.
Financial mechanics, we use our decks as an engine of value accrual to our token.
We use our DEX as an engine of value accrual to our token.
We don't make anything unless we hold the token, and we make even more when we stake and vote.
So we're all in the same boat, as they say.
Pun intended.
Yeah, I mean, it's really cool seeing that, like, it looks like all the intenses are aligned, the flywheel's there, you know, the fees usually, you know, probably go to the team are now being flowing through kind of people who can predict well and use their voting power quite well. So yeah, I love it. I love the concept.
It's the first time interacting
with this type of DeFi protocol
and really exciting stuff.
I mean, locking, AI tooling, TGE in a couple of weeks.
I mean, you can't ask for anything more.
So is there any, by the way, before we wrap this up,
we're about 15 or 16 minutes above and beyond this, this plan.
Is there anyone have any questions or whatnot?
I think we covered it quite well, but I'll give a couple seconds.
Anybody want to raise their hand?
Four, three, two, one. Okay. Well, Hey guys, you know,
thanks to Keith Uber geek and, and yeah, Glupta.
The real Mrs. Glupta.
The real Mrs. Glupta.
Yeah, and Mrs. Glupta's dog for coming on,
and Christcode, of course, for co-hosting.
Lovely, lovely job.
Everybody very informative.
informative and just FYI, we're part of this community competition.
And just FYI, we're part of this community competition.
If you want to join in on the full sail kind of flag and ship,
feel free to use our code, which is grape.grape underscore FS.
And again, we're part of the grape protocol.
We're kind of an OG Solana DAO, but we have very much ventured into the SUI ecosystem.
We're really excited about it.
We might have an IECA validator.
So we're definitely very much in the SUI ecosystem.
And thank you so much for joining us.
If you want to find out more, please follow everybody here.
We usually do these spaces once every two weeks, once every month. And Uber Geek is very prolific in terms of always keeping
the full sale media engaged. And he's usually very prolific on spaces. So fantastic job.
Thank you so much for everyone to tune in and have a great, uh, you know,
Saturday and weekend. Take care of everyone.
Yeah. Take care of everyone.
Sure to join great discord for some vine. Thank you.
