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GRAILED CHAT
Recorded: April 24, 2025 Duration: 0:31:58Space Recording
Short Summary
In a vibrant discussion on Grail Chat, hosts and guests explored the resilience of the crypto community amidst market fluctuations, highlighting trends of growth and collaboration. With insights on the importance of long-term commitment and the emergence of new talents, the conversation underscored a positive outlook for the future of Web3.
Full Transcription
Thank you. The The End Thank you. The Oh The End Oh Thank you. The End The GM, GM, and welcome to episode seven of Grail Chat.
My name is John Carl.
It's amazing to see so many communities in the audience.
I see the apes.
I see Grailed.
I see gobs.
I see dead fellas.
I see Carl's.
Damn.
What a reminder of how strong our OG communities are. Year after year, still here, showing up.
This show is becoming a sacred, truly grailed place to hang out.
It's been a blast having this time to gather together over the last few months while the market has been shit.
And it'll be even more joyous to get together as things begin heating up again for the crypto economy.
Huge shout out to each and every one of you for your commitment to growing Web3 the right way.
Truly grateful to each of you that have been here for every episode i see you
if this is your first time joining us welcome to the family we appreciate you tuning in this is not
an alpha space but instead a community space we hope grail chat will become a place where all
communities can come together reflect on3, and learn a few things
from time to time as well. So if this is your first time joining us, buckle up. Tonight's show
is a special one. It's, I think I say it every time, but it's going to be a banger.
Alongside my co-host Michael Figge, we're thrilled to have on stage several amazing Web3 builders.
You heard that right. I said several.
Up until this point on Grail Chat, we've had one primary guest each show.
But there are so many insanely talented people building around us that Figge and I realized we needed to up the ante a little bit.
that Figgy and I realized we needed to up the ante a little bit.
So tonight we're bringing you not one guest,
but three insightful Web3 builders
that all deserve spotlight for their commitment to this space.
All three are talented in their own right,
but one shared commonality between them all
is that they are truly amazing culture builders.
The fucking puppets!
Legendary trader and fellow 10KTF Carl Craig Coinpurse,
the inspirational Deadfellas creator Betty,
and the culture man of the BAYC whose birthday will never be missed, PP Man.
Dan, what a pleasure to share the stage with all of you legends.
Welcome to Grail Chat, and thanks for being here.
It's good to be here.
You have a perfect podcast voice, by the way, John.
I appreciate that.
PP Man and Craig.
Yo, thanks, everyone.
Thanks, John.
G'day, everyone out there.
G'day, Figgy and Betty and everyone else on the panel.
And, yeah, good morning, good morning, Jen, from where I am.
Dude, I'm so excited to be here. I tune in every single Thursday. I don't miss it.
I know. I've seen you here, PB, man. I know you've been in the audience. Really appreciate you always tuning in.
And finally, I feel like that little kid that knows how to play the guitar and then just like, I don't know, this rock star on the stage just like pulls him in.
That's exactly the way that it is.
Man, it is so good to have all of you here.
We have a jam-packed show, so we're not going to waste any time.
Just to give everyone a roundup of how today's show is going to go, it's a little different than prior shows where we have one guest.
We're going to spend 10 to 15 minutes chatting with each of our guests about what they've been up to in the space.
But to each of our special guests, if at any point any of you on stage want to jump in on a topic or you have something to add in, just raise your hand and I'll jump over to you.
This is the goal is to have a casual conversation about the space while also
spotlighting what each of you have been up to and what you're working on. So please feel free to
jump in the conversation at any point over the next hour. All right, Figgy, as always, it's a
pleasure having you co-host Grail Chat for over two months. It seems like we come here to try and
forget about how down bad the market's been, but finally, I get
to host a show on a week that is green, and it feels good.
How have you been, man?
Yeah, we caught a bid this week, man.
It's been good.
It's been good.
I mean, I think last time we were talking about the breakout of AI and Ghibli and basically
that thinking small was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And last time we also watched James Hall talk to us about the Minotaurs and how that was going to come about.
And so we saw the launch over the past weekend and it went really well.
It went super well.
And I know I got PP in my ear talking about some schizo coins that he thinks are pretty good.
I think there's a lot of stories going right now. Of course, big news day today, watching how sometimes media can disappear if you're not careful, if you don't store it in the right way, if you're not paying certain bills.
The stickiness of what these JPEGs are, we want them to be on the blockchain forever, but some of them are still more centralized.
So it's interesting to see people's reactions to the space on what they value.
I think also one thing I've been seeing is in this turnaround that these AI coins are getting repriced quite a bit higher.
I know we don't normally talk about price too much, but I feel like this is one of the first weeks where we've actually
caught a bid and things are going up a little bit so we got to take the win when we can you know
we got to celebrate as a community the ups um 100 yeah ai i mean ai is is back trump's big
announcement about his dinner the trump coin is surging um yeah what you said is so true though about um
the centralization of certain uh you know basically how we store things on the blockchain
especially when it comes to nfts and it's always been a big conversation a big selling point
of you know uh ordinals because that's one thing that you know know, the NFTs on Bitcoin, everything's on chain.
But one thing that's very interesting is seeing, you know, that I always am thinking about is commitment to Web3, right?
Like you have builders that come in, they may have the best intentions, but the long haul is a very, it's easy playing the short game, and it's a lot harder to play the long game when it comes to anything, but especially in markets like crypto, where it's so volatile, it's up and about it, and then just kind of lose that vigor while things are bad.
And one thing that I love about all three people that are on stage that we have today
is their commitment to Web3, regardless of how things are going, if it's up or down.
They've never left, and that's something special about each of the guests that we have today.
So I'm excited to hop in and kind of chat with all of you guys because it is.
It's seeing the market start turning around, it gets really exciting.
I mean, you feel like you kind of hope that we don't pull the Jim Cramer effect of celebrating the green week.
Hopefully things start to turn around and we start to see more and more attention to the crypto economy because there's so much happening here.
And I'm just so excited to see those numbers going up, those authentic users starting to come back learn about the space and hopefully we can win back some of
the ones that got burnt out because it is uh it is not easy to be in this space which is also why
i love shouting out everyone that's here week in and week out when we do this show because
just uh to be here when things aren't fun uh really show who the true community are so thanks
again for all of you being here and And I want to start because it is
definitely been a fun week to be trading, especially on the long side. But there's been a
lot of weeks that aren't fun. And it's always amazes me. And I love I'm a trader. A lot of
people in the room are traders, but there's some traders that are just top tier.
They're on a different level. And one of those people are on stage with us, top tier D-Gen trader, doing live streams, always holding down the fort in multiple communities. And he's
constantly, he hits banger trade after banger trade since I first met him years ago. And I've
started just watching how he moves, really have a lot of respect. He's now an ambassador for Slingshot.
You know you're a good trader when crypto platforms start begging you to shill for them.
His car streams are my personal favorites.
He's already an amazing trader, but now he's become a meme legend.
I mean, just looking at him after his addiction to the Bitcoin puppets, the fucking puppets.
Craig, man, you are a legend, legend man i'm glad you're on here i just want to talk a little bit about the market but i'd love
for you to talk a little bit about what it was like trading over the last couple years when the
market was so choppy yeah okay g'day um yeah good question uh the last couple of years uh yeah i mean take us take us back. We'll go back a little bit further. It was sort of 21 bull run. Everything was kicking ass. NFTs were pumping, Bitcoin was pumping. And then obviously like every bull runner must come to an end and everything pulled back, dumped. NFTs went crazy bad and everything pulled back and everyone sort of disappeared. And we went into a market and sort of 22 23 was a pretty pretty testing time um if you check my my account there's
a there's a pin post there from me tweet from I think 20 was a 22 23 just explaining my
emotions through that time but um to answer your question the last couple of years I enjoyed
it uh I enjoyed the last couple years it was my enjoyed it. I enjoyed the last couple of years. It was my
first bull run. I entered the market February 21, so I only knew what a bull run was like.
So when I first entered the space, I thought I was a genius and whatever I bought just went up
back when altcoins, all of them went up, which is a bit different to now. But yeah,
I thought I was a really smart trader, found out that I wasn't as good as I thought,
and then the bear market came but the
great thing with the bear market that i try to explain to people i haven't had one yet is is the
connections i made during that time were were were were probably stronger than the bull the bull runs
really loud there's a lot happening a lot of people into the space to extract as we've seen
everyone becomes an artist all of a sudden if nfts are popping everyone becomes an artist all of a sudden. If NFTs are popping,
everyone's an artist all of a sudden. So that comes into play. Obviously, meme coins took over.
But no, long story short, the last two years for me have, I don't know what other people have been
like, but been great for me just on a personal level building my, I guess, my brand, if you call
it that. And it was never meant to be. I never thought, like you said, I became a meme, I accidentally became one
and then it just couldn't be stopped. So it's been awesome to see people meme my face. I never
in a thousand years thought I'd have my head posted in telegram groups. In fact, my mum,
they came up from overseas one time and I said, mum, check this out. Because obviously trying
to explain to an older person, NFTs and telegram groups is quite tough. So she couldn't understand the kind of notoriety
I was getting with my big head saying the F in puppets. So I went into the puppets chat one day,
the telegram group and went in there and just hit a low. And then obviously all of a sudden I had
about a thousand emojis thrown at me and my mum was like, holy shit, what the hell's happening? So that was a pretty weird moment and pretty cool. But no, the last couple of years for me have been
awesome and trading's been awesome. And I guess the lesson was buying the bear and then sell off
in the bull, because obviously if you stuck around, you got some pretty dirt cheap prices. I mean, I think Seoul went down, I don't know,
what was it, $9 or something crazy like that. So I remember when everything pulled back,
FTX turned to custard and we saw prices like that and people just fell apart. And just to go back
to what you said, Carl, a lot of people left the space, but ones that were left i think it was quite it became very
apparent or easy to see who was here for the long term versus who was here just for the short term
to extract so and then obviously the bull run came back around and you know a lot of the extractors
came back but then the ones who stuck around sort of stayed and then the last couple of months when
you know bitcoin pulled back you sort of saw a game.
People sort of fall off and say, oh, well, that's the bull run over into the band.
Everyone went full depression mode, which I think might have been a bit premature.
At about 74K, people lost their minds.
And now we're back up to 93.
You know, probably half the people listening are probably bullish again.
So it's an emotional ride being in this space.
As you guys will know, John and Filiy and Betty,
you guys will know more than anybody what it's like to have a community that also relies on you.
It can be quite stressful during those times, to say the least.
I've got a lot of gray hair now and probably not as half as much
as everyone else up there.
But no, it's been a blast.
I'm enjoying the space. It can be very very draining so you have to be very careful with
your mental health here um and and just everything's at such a rapid pace you can kind of lose
you know lose yourself sometimes so um yeah you've got to really pace yourself in the ball and i
actually i'm actually looking forward to going to the bay and just being able to have a bit of sleep
i don't know what you guys are like but yeah man i'm looking forward to going to the beer and just being able to have a bit of sleep. I don't know what you guys are like, but yeah, man, I'm looking forward to some sleep.
So probably people don't want to hear that, but hopefully we'll get a nice big frothy top Bitcoin pump this year sometime.
And we can all exit with big fat bags and reconvene in the bear market, guys.
I love that.
I do have one other big question for you, and then I'll go to Figgy, see if he has any questions.
But one thing that I've always respected about you, you have a lot of discipline. I don't know if that's something that was learned
during the bear, but I feel like the one thing that I always watch is it feels like you're always
in winners, but I know that's not the case. I guess the big question is, what would be the
biggest advice you have for people that trade when it comes to
the most important things to remember and when you know it's time to move on from a trade,
even if that means take losses? Yeah, that's a really good question.
My biggest pieces of advice would be probably to trade on a longer term time frame, zoom out,
go weeks, months, or maybe not years, but certainly days, weeks, to trade on a longer term time frame you know zoom out go weeks months or maybe not years but certainly days weeks or months on a on a on the
time frame um try i mean this is very overstated in the space but try and keep emotions out of
trading they they don't help at all so if you ever feel like you're getting emotional best to step
away from the screen and that's actually the hardest time to step away from the screen. And that's actually the hardest time to step away from the screen. You know, traders out there will know what I mean in the fact that
if you get a loss, you sometimes want to step back up to the casino table, to the blackjack table,
and try and get your money back. And that can be a dangerous thing to do because sometimes,
you know, and the same can be said for a big win. If you get a big win, going back to the table can
be a mistake as well because you're also hyper promotional then so try and keep yourself in a quite a steady state um and then
another important thing i learned along the way was when you're in a trade don't just plan for
when it goes up what you'll do plan for what if it goes down what you'll do so obviously have take
profit levels but on top of that have invalidation levels whereby at that
point, if the price drops below a certain price, you will say to yourself, I was wrong on this
trade for this moment in time. And take the exit, take the L and move it on to the next thing where
you can get a W. One of the hardest lessons I had to learn was sometimes hanging
in there into losing trades thinking they can't possibly go down anymore. I learned
that things can go down a lot lower than you think they can. And after something's had
an 80% pullback, it can still have another 80% pullback and it can go to zero. So those
are probably the main lessons. Zoom out is a big one. Keep your
emotions if you can to the side. If you find yourself getting really emotional, step away
from the computer. Another big piece of advice I'd have is probably make sure you get outside
sometimes. You'll see a lot of me on the timeline, barbecuing and things like that. And that for me
is more of a therapy session. For me, it's not so much the fact that I want to go out there and actually do the cooking.
It's more the fact that I've found that if I give myself another process-driven exercise,
e.g. cooking or whatever it might be, it just takes my mind off trading.
I won't check my phone.
I get out there in the sun, put the barbecue on, put the music on, have a beer, play out
there with my son.
He runs around and then you sort of remember what's the most important thing and then kind of reseat yourself and that could be different for everybody
i know you know it doesn't have to be a barbecue might be walking the beach but whatever you do i
think get some sunshine get some oxygen and move your body it's probably pretty important which
may be not spoken about in the space you know in the space everything's locked in and you know take
your addies and you know lock into the screen for 48 hours and don't get sleep and yada, yada, yada. And that's all cool. And it sounds fantastic, but I'm a little bit older,
so I can't do that. I'll have a frigging heart attack. So I've got to, I would have taken my
blood pressure medication guys and go for a walk and talk to my wife and have her tell me to chill.
But locking in is great, but make sure you have rest periods as well. You mentioned one of the things, discipline. With me as a
trader, yeah, discipline is really important. And that sort of, I think, came from a training
background. My background, one of my backgrounds was personal training in a form of life. So
training myself and training, I did that for probably a good eight to 10 years and training
a lot of clients. And mental discipline is a's, well, it's everything in this space. So luckily for me, I
found, you know, putting myself under extreme pain in the gym over probably a decade and a half
changed the way I viewed things. And I kind of realized how powerful or strong I was. And I
think a lot of people don't realize how mentally strong
you're capable of being. But you've got to put yourself in those situations where it's required.
And then you've actually got to do it. It's one thing to say you'll do it. You've actually got
to do it. And then you've got to do it for a long period of time. So that's where I think a lot of
founders perhaps come undone. You see, you touched on it as well. You know, they're here for a short
time. It may be six months. It might be a year. But can you actually work really hard for for three years for five years for a decade and that's that's where I think the magic has happened
and that's where it's kind of happened with me in that I've been here what four years every day
um you know for sometimes too long on the screen and you know you it's it's almost it's it's that
classic saying you know the more you train or the more you work, the luckier you get. And certainly with me, it's been the case.
And I must say sometimes now when, you know, you might get, you know, like this getting invited up here with, you know, you and Figgy and Betty and that, you know, if I'd rewound to 21, 22 and you told me I'd be up here chatting to you guys, I would have been like, what the hell?
So, you know, it's the universe has opened up doors that I didn't think it would. And I think most of that comes down to just sheer perseverance, determination and hard work. And eventually, eventually, if you're meant to be, then you work as hard as you can. Those those doors open. But yeah, that's why I don't even know what the question was, John. But yeah, here we are.
I think that's strong, Craig. I mean, those are really encouraging words. I think we all are part of lock-in culture. So really respect you doing your vlogs from your car and barbecuing and having beers, but also being a killer trader. and like what can you paint out some detail for them like you you talk about um being able to
stick in it through the long term not maybe not over trading but like what kind of time horizons
do you usually look at on average when you're trading yeah okay so with with things like say
bitcoin my time horizon is quite large um so with me, with Bitcoin, I'd be on a daily chart, mainly weekly,
monthly is what I look at. So with things like that, where I want to put a larger amount of my
money on something, it's definitely on a longer term timeframe. So for me, what I mean by that is
people probably saying, what do you mean by longer term timeframe? I mean, I'd be selling Bitcoin now
that I was buying in 23. I'm talking you know with Bitcoin
it could be a year or two to get you know to get that five six x you do have to be as patient as
on that sort of time frame because obviously for Bitcoin to to move up so you know significantly
it needs a longer period of time and quite a large amount of money is to flow in for that to happen
versus say if you're talking um meme coins which obviously came into popularity
only the last couple of years my chart's very different and I've been you know I've been on a
one minute chart before so which is not the greatest way to trade but you you can do it you
can do it it's very stressful and all the guys who've been in the trenches trading on a minute
chart will know what that's like and you I've had three up at the same time um which is probably not recommended for your heart rate but for meme coins shorter term
i'd say look at the moment you're seeing them die within hours days uh so with meme coins it's hours
and days um and then with your your big caps like bitcoin solana and those sorts of coins um you know you're talking months months or if not years so I have
to you know you you with me I have bags that are that are shorter term like mean coins and maybe
flipping NFTs and then I've got other bags which are my say safer bags which that's a longer term
horizon and that's basically swing trading it from from bull to bear bear to bull uh NFTs bit
of a different kettle of fish depends what i think
about it um in some ways i'm a collector in another ways i'm a trader and that's probably
been the hardest thing with nfts versus altcoins bitcoin and meme coins was and that's the thing
with any t's that's so good is the stickiness factor and figgy you were you know you were
you're one of the creators of the the more stick one of the more sticky projects I've been a part of.
And that's what I think is such the awesome thing about NFTs is the emotional attachment to them versus a meme coin.
A meme coin, for me personally, I find it very hard to get personally attached to it.
Or I definitely try not to be.
Whereas NFTs in the past have definitely held a much stronger
place in my heart. And that's obviously because you put it up as your PFP. And once you do that,
it's often very hard, as some of you were experienced, to get rid of it. So NFTs are
probably, for me, a little bit trickier to trade if you end up really liking them,
which has been, I suppose, a pitfall in the past. But that's probably one of the greatest
things with NFTs as well, is the fact you can get an emotional attachment
because I guess that's what you might call art.
So, yeah, it's longer-term timeframe on Bitcoins to answer that a bit more concise.
And then shorter-term, definitely on meme coins,
as we've seen the daily runners that were around in the past few months
where the extractors came in,'re talking days if you're lucky hours
probably so now you've got to be aware but um yeah it's uh yeah it's definitely at the moment
everything seems quite accelerated so yeah you've got to be sort of careful out there but definitely
longer term time frame if you actually want to make safer if i can say that money craig i think
something's wrong with me because i can get attached to memes. I do get attached to memes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, like Mog's problem.
Pepe is probably the one sort of I got attached to back in, what was that,
22, 23, sorry.
But I've sort of learned the hard way on meme coins now, unfortunately.
I got attached to Chill Guy.
I got attached to the Holding Space one.
I got attached.
I honestly will fall in love with anything.
It's terrible.
I'm out here with like parasocial relationships
with non-sentient digital assets.
So there you go.
Yeah.
Look, the most sobering thing I can probably encourage you to do is, and it quite confronting it's sort of like my metamask wallet with nfts back in 21
is uh if you've got a wallet that you hold all of them in go into that wallet and see what the
value is of them now and try to remind yourself that it was worth it it's all time high and so
what yeah i will um my my bad advice which everyone can take, is actually I would prefer to,
on the Phantom app, when you see the amount that's at the top,
you can just hold it, just put your finger down and hold it,
and it disappears.
Yeah, that's another way to cope.
And I have done the same.
Yeah, you can hide coins, which I've had to do a couple.
What kind of wallets are you guys using now?
Because you're saying, like, when you started in 21, it's MetaMask,
and then you've got Phantom.
What do you use day to day?
I use all kinds, Zerion, Phantom, yeah, MetaMask, what's the, OKX,
like all different ones, which I don't know if that's good or bad
or whatever, but I just, I'm probably not the person to ask.
I mean, myself, I'm actually the same answer.
I've got MetaMask, Phantom, and Magic Eden.
Favourite probably is probably Phantom.
I probably find the most or the least glitchy out of all of them
and the ability to do swaps and things like that.
But yes, certainly MetaMask has come a long way, long way from where it was, but a little bit from where it was.
And Magic Eden, I find it pretty glitchy, that wallet, or can be quite glitchy.
So probably, well, all three, Figi, I use all three.
I don't know. What are you using, Figi?
Yes, same. And I actually think that's one of the things that'll probably change we'll
look back and it's like the dial-up modem i really feel like a lot of that will probably abstract
away into something that you sign on with a gmail or something like that at least for
for hot wallet purposes i think there's going to be a very uh big divide where you put a lot
of your stuff in like a gnosis safe and you just delegate out for
anything important but anything that you're carrying like you're carrying around money that'll
probably be in something that's a little bit more abstracted but even when you use something like
Hyperliquid for instance it still requires you to use some sort of EVM wallet even though you're
depositing it into you know Hyper EVM so yeah that's why I asked the question.
I think I hear a lot of people using Rabi also, like that's another version of what's
