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GRAILED CHAT
Recorded: Sept. 11, 2025 Duration: 1:05:56Space Recording
Short Summary
The Grail Chat discussion revealed significant trends in the Web3 space, highlighting the growth of community engagement and the importance of digital identity. Key partnerships and project launches, particularly in the Other Side metaverse, are paving the way for innovative avatar experiences and collaborative efforts among builders.
Full Transcription
Thank you. I'm sorry. The End The End The Thank you. The End The The End Thank you. The The End The Thank you. Streaming live from other side in the X platform.
Welcome to Grail Chat.
My name is John Carl.
It's amazing to see so many communities around Web3 with us tonight.
I see you all.
What a reminder of how strong our OG communities are year after year.
Still here, showing up.
I look forward to this time because of all of you I see out there hanging out and listening.
So thank you for rolling up to hang out and support Grail Chat.
Without you, these shows truly wouldn't be possible.
And if this is your first time joining us, welcome to the family.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Grail Chat is a space where all communities can come together and reflect on Web3.
We are focused on getting the best information in crypto and growing together.
So if this is your first time joining us, welcome and buckle up. For those of us who have been here for the last four years,
nights like tonight are pretty special. As many of you all know, Web3 has the potential
to become extremely disruptive because of its permissionless nature. The end game is platforms
that are open to all
builders with no gatekeeping. And while we all know that end goal, often times the day-to-day
can feel frustrating as these new platforms work to evolve into fully decentralized network
states. The other side is the perfect example of this. Since day one of the NFT launch years ago, the vision was clear to build a permissionless, decentralized platform for builders where NFTs become true identities and anyone can create new communities in a world with no boundaries.
And while the path to get there may feel slow, every few weeks in 2025, we seem to be seeing more releases that are taking us in that direction
today figgy and i are joined by three builders james hall rita and directive creator to discuss
the progress being made and a big rollout that just unlocked this week figgy great to be back
on air with you for another show do you want to share a little bit about what's been going on in
the background at yuga and the recent unlock for builders to get their communities into other
side? And then maybe we can introduce our guests. Of course. Yeah. Good to see you, John Carl. Good
to see everybody in the Grails in here. Nice to see everybody joining. A lot of familiar faces.
Yeah, we've got a lot of updates coming out. And I hope you've noticed that we're picking up
substantial velocity on the rollouts of what we're seeing in Other Side.
It's taken us a lot of work to get to this point, but now hopefully we're going to see a compounding effect where the foundation of what we've done is starting to accelerate us into the vision that we've all wanted to be a part of.
Today, we're joined by three people in particular. We've got James Hall from Yuga.
We've got Directive Creator, who's been a long-time builder in MML. And then we've got Rita,
who almost needs no introduction, but is probably one of the most prolific
is probably one of the most prolific builders in the 3D asset space.
And, you know, the stuff that Jesus is shipping, the stuff that Inceptive is doing, is just really remarkable.
And each one of these folks has been featured on this show in previous episodes.
But I think it's good to bring everybody back and to maybe highlight a couple of the work pieces that have been shipped recently, specifically around avatars.
We've been seeing this behavior in Other Side where avatars are this way of representing a community.
It's not just one-off, but like a collection of things where you can see other
people who are in the same community that you're in. And while we saw it first with first-party
collections like Bored Apes, Mutants, Codas, we've also seen this with other collections
that Yuga has worked on building 3D models out, like Meebitsits for instance. You'll see a little preview of a Toads that I am
as a tank ATF collection. If you're in a bubble right now you'll see that I've just equipped that
today and we're also opening it up to basically anybody and that's kind of what these documents
cover. Last week we released or I should say the beginning of this week, we released documentation on avatars. And that was pulling together a lot of different work streams at once. There are some explainers. There are some notes. If you have questions, we're going to try to address some of that here.
If you have questions, we're going to try to address some of that here.
One of the senior tech artists who I wanted on this call actually couldn't make it.
He had a family conflict at this time.
But one of the things that we're probably going to do in the near future is actually set up some office hours with some folks on the other side team.
out there working on your own on something and you just need a little bit of interactive help,
we're going to set up people who can basically answer your questions in real time.
That way we're getting a good knowledge base of people within the community that know enough
that they can help other people. And that's kind of like the goal here of this open source creation
is like it's slow and it's hard to get into a lot of people at once.
But once it gets going, a lot of people can be building
without the help of Yuga or the other side team.
So, yeah, one of the first things I probably want to do
is hand over the mic.
We could probably move from, let's say, a James
and then a directive creator and then a Rita.
Rita, thank you for joining us, by the way.
I know it's like super late where you are, so appreciate you.
You know, James, we've been jamming on a lot of stuff behind the scenes,
and I think some people have seen that in the documentation that's been rolled out.
There's also just some very practical things that limit how fast we can ingest things and i
think people could get frustrated if they're not informed about like you know what the process is
right now so this is a good opportunity to be able to connect with everybody and tell them
you know where we're at the types of stuff that the team has to go through and then your your
take on avatars in general i'd love to pass it over to you first yeah thanks can you guys hear me okay yep great uh yeah you know um it's it's kind of a lot of
like plumbing that that's going on right now with with other side and how we're working with the
avatars and how we get them all in and everything you know um we kind of have our own indexing
system which is uh for those who don't know
basically we have to get the contract address of like someone's collection and then kind of keep
eyes on it right so we know what metadata is saying who owns what where it's at so kind of
just keeping all this stuff in our system because we do a lot of things on the back end and um so
like the first step is like kind of um reading the docs first.
Actually, let me just back up.
Read the docs.
That's the first part to do.
Because if anyone DMs me or if anyone DMs Rita or Figgy or Directive,
all of us should be saying, have you read the docs first?
Have you looked at the docs first?
That's why we put them out.
It's because there's a lot of information in there that I think is very helpful with that.
I think once you go through the documentation
of getting your character set up,
which isn't as easy as you may think it is, there's a lot of steps to it because we're having to build a 3D model inside Unreal.
And so there's a lot of work that has to be done.
And some folks already have 3D models that may be working in other worlds like Nifty and some things like that.
And while it almost works, there's just changes that have to happen.
And I can talk about that later, you know.
But basically, like, after you get your entire model kind of set up, you've tested it using the docs.
The docs have a lot of great ways of telling you how to set up and test it in every which way or form.
There is a form at the end which you can then send to us.
And we kind of take a quick look at it.
Like, typically, it'll probably be me or someone else on the team just putting it into like a a test world just making sure it jumps up and down looks that
doesn't look too far off of what it needs to do basically from a functionality standpoint we're
not going to give you like too much creative feedback you know i i was looking at someone's
model today and like it looked like the head um the head was a little too low on the neck when it
was jumping so i told them hey you might want to move some of your bones around or something like
that just quick quick updates to to make sure you guys are going on the neck when it was jumping. So I told them, hey, you might want to move some of your bones around or something like that.
Just quick updates to make sure you guys are going on the right path. So once you get all of that set up, the big step is like then we have to get your collection indexed.
And then that's when you start to see collections showing up on your inventory, on your avatar selector.
And then that's when it kind of all comes together.
That indexing sometimes takes a couple of days and so like uh once that happens we can have your avatars ready to go but even then
there's like the one last thing is just turning it on in the back end of the unreal game uh and
that's usually when we coordinate with you a good time uh because we have a lot of things going on
we have you know events that happen you know all sorts of stuff that's going on in our our world
and so we want to make sure that everyone can kind of you know uh understand when they're launching
and you know kind of get it set up in a good cadence to where we're making it feel special
for everybody um i'm saying this now and i know like we we right now we've been going through
like this process of trying to figure it out it's all building in public right now right so we're
trying to make sure that like uh what happens when x, or Z happens or what's going on with this or that.
As we work with the first few collections, we are hitting the bumps in the road and we're figuring out how to fix those.
So I appreciate it.
I haven't been super great with it.
But yeah, I know it's like a super high level, but TLDR is read the docs, get your stuff ready, submit the form, and then we'll get you ingested and get you on board.
So five simple steps to get your avatar collection.
That's super helpful.
So there is a distinction here, and I think this is a good transition to directive creator because this is one of the things that we've talked about publicly a lot, which is currently in the process.
You build your avatar.
You set it all up like the documentation says, and then you have to submit it that it's ready on like a Google form, right? And then our team reviews it. So I think it's
pretty clear that our end state, where we want to be, is that we actually like don't even gate it.
Like anybody right now can post an NFT and OpenSea just indexes it. We're not quite at that level with what we have today.
Part of it is just moderation tools. And there's actually like a layer of work that is being done
at the M-squared level in terms of like moderation. But, you know, this has been something I feel like
a directive, if you want to be able to chime in on this topic, because I know you're a big believer in having it open by default.
But that's not something that exists today, but that is something about where we're headed.
And maybe you could share about why you believe in that.
And then maybe just your take on how the rollout has been, because you were able to roll out grills yesterday and and what that meant for people maybe some tips for other creators
when they're thinking about how to roll out their stuff sure can you guys hear me yep cool yeah um
yeah i mean first of all i'm just very very excited to see these avatar docs come to life
and obviously for for grills to be in there but more importantly to see all these different
collections to start like preparing their files and creating their stuff like that to me is the
most fun and that was like kind of for me the the missing piece where i know that all the
tools are there i know that all these i think i got muted i think you rouged for a second go ahead
so i know that all the tools are there and i know that all the the bits and pieces of the puzzle are there
um but like someone has to kind of tell people like hey this is where you have to start this is
where you have to create these files so i'm just glad that that's now there because i see like even
just today i see like 40 or 50 different collections uh building and creating their avatars or at least preparing
uh their avatars and i think that's very important and then when it comes about the openness of the
tools and things like that for me it's just like has everything to do with just the the creative
aspect of things for me it's like if people don't feel like they have access to stuff, or it's like convoluted, or it's hidden, like they don't have access to a certain tool, and they have access to another time and i feel like that was very important and that's
yeah i i know i've been very very focal uh on the openness and the building together part and
building with m square too i mean right like we we i still remember how that went as well
uh and i'm just glad that now that we're getting to that point um and yeah for me it's
very important that the tools that are there that are available equally for everyone so that
there's no like oh well you're not you're not in here so you cannot use this yet, or you can get access to this tool.
And I know that we talked about this before,
there's support, you need to be able to give
a certain level of support,
and that's one of the reasons
why you can't just open the floodgates.
But another really, really important thing is that
the nature of Web3 is that people help each other. And they
like, like one collection builds, and then the other collection helps the other one. And that's
like, that's how we did it with Foxy fam and stuff like that. And I think that is also such a,
such a big thing where now that they went through that process, they can now also help someone else that has questions and
then kind of like snowball that like outwards and it will become easier and easier there will be
more tools um yeah i mean i'm literally like going back now in the tools that i've created
over time which some of them are like from 2023 2024 there's like some glitches and
some bugs and stuff like that i'm like okay now that there's actually like a lot of people using
it it makes it easier to figure out where where the issues are what's not like clear and then kind
of fix that and make it better and that that way, everybody gets to use avatars
in the other side, maybe in the future other stuff.
I'm just excited that that's now finally rolling out.
Besides the issues with timing and releasing
and how and what, the most important part
is that people can now start building.
And when you just rolled something out, right?
And I know, Rita, you've done it but maybe let's let's start with you directive
creator and then transition over to rita like when you roll out your stuff yes there's the
technical stuff that the docs cover where you've got to get your glb file and it's got to be
publicly accessible you've got to put it on the metadata submit the google form there's all of
that stuff but there's stuff that's not in the docs either that's more subjective.
Like, hey, I want to make a moment out of this for my community.
I want to actually, like, put out a video or put out an event.
How do you think about that stuff?
Like, how is that something that you thought about for Grill's directive?
And then I'd love to pass it over to rita because
he got his in a few weeks ago with g's and it would be great to rewind to like what that
experience was for him as as one of the earliest groups to get in
so yeah this is a tricky one because this is where we where we kind of like
had had some issues there but basically for me it was like the grills has been
in there and it's been able to to load in there for quite a long time but it was like always like
either like unofficial or like semi-official or alpha beta. And so for me, the moment basically was like,
hey, I want everything to be interrupable.
I want these avatars to load.
And then there was like the Persistent World.
Jeez came on, but then like Grills plus another collection
were kind of like shut off.
And I was like, okay, well, that's not very fun
because people
want to use their avatars and i guess i was meaning more like like how how should creators
be thinking about you know their debut and other side like you you put out a video but that's not
in the documentation like is there any other thoughts that you have that isn't in the documentation
but you think is an important part of like you know premiering a collection on other side i think it has everything
to do with just like like getting your community riled up kind of teasing them about stuff and
being able um to maybe even test and do things with them.
And then like one thing that I noticed that it's kind of like a given now almost, but that's obviously not in documentation,
is that every single time when a collection gets added is that everybody
comes in and hangs out and joins. Like you saw that with Foxies,
you see all the Foxies there, you see it with grills,
see all the grills there.
Everybody's like twerking and dancing and hanging
out and it happened with the g's as well i think that's an important part is that everybody gets
to see these new avatars in the space and the best way to do that is by having a bunch of people from
the community with different avatars join so they can see it and then people are like all right like wow what's
what's this what's this crazy what's this crazy teeth character what's this fox like what is this
i want one too like how like what is like that's the excitement of it uh definitely also like a
video and sharing and stuff like that but i think actually being in the space being in in there hanging out uh being in the
bubbles i think that's almost even more important and i see even now like there's so much like
screenshots and footage and like all kinds of things being done in other side like i saw honey
b made like a whole video like that's really really funny and it's really really cool but that really shows like the creative aspects of stuff that you can do and
and that's i think a big thing with other side as well you can see almost whole new communities kind
of form purely about creating content and creating stuff that's happening in that space so the more
experiences that are there the more avatars that
are there the more of that content gets created and like i said kind of snowballs from there so
yeah for a new collection i would recommend to bug james a lot to make sure that you get your
own kind of spotlight and then um once you do that just make sure that everybody comes and joins
and hangs out and if you can make videos uh then obviously that that's great as well um
because then you can kind of showcase how those avatars look and how they operate
yeah perfect thanks for sharing that and well let's go over to rita with the same question i
know it was a couple of weeks ago now but it it was a really great moment for the Gs.
How are you thinking about that?
You came out with such a strong launch video.
What's been your experience like being able to feature your project in the other side?
Thanks for having me, everyone.
Sorry, it's a bit late.
I've had a lot of espressos to keep myself awake um so don't
mind the jittering your list but yeah no i think it's it's like a new mint it's like the mint phase
of your project uh you're minting your project onto other side basically so whatever you have
to do to market it whatever you have to do to do community building, it's a new mint.
And I think that's the best way to look at it.
Everything now is different.
We did have people join the community just to be on other side.
And we do have newcomers every day because they see the G's on other side and they want to be a part of the community.
So think of it as a mint and do whatever marketing and all the community
building that you do, you did during mint for other side as well.
I think that's the best way to look at it.
Props to you, Directive Creator, for getting a character that's not
the usual bipedal on there.
I think that's the most bullish stuff I like.
It's new stuff being tested, new avatars being tested,
not the usual stuff.
And that's how we'll grow this big population.
Can you get into that a little bit?
Because I think that, you know, according to the documentation,
one of the rules is that the characters that you bring in have to be bipedal, which basically means they're standing up humans with two arms and two legs.
But there are things like grills and maybe other projects.
And I guess like how are you know, how do you explain to other people how you're able to basically tweak the rig that we've given you?
Because the grills, for instance, the teeth, they don't have arms and legs.
So how do you explain that to people that are trying to wrap their mind around what the possibilities are with this avatar rig?
What are you doing behind the scenes to make that work?
I mean, all of us, I encourage mean i encourage uh trying and breaking which is what
directive creator did i mean he's being humble and stuff uh it did it was not easy i'm guessing
it was not easy for him to get them all set up uh there but you have to try um it's your project
you have to try and it keeps on breaking trust me every single avatar we've worked on
has broken multiple times for reasonable stuff and some obscure reasons it doesn't work
but yeah it's it's part of the process all these founders are creative people
and the more creative you are you'll figure out a way to get stuff done
if grills manage to get their avatars working on mml and different metaversons on other side as well
then you can do it with any avatar you want and the folks at yugo don't
really actually encourage that i know they don't say it but they encourage you to break
can we put is this this is recorded right
yeah yeah it's recorded yeah uh yeah i mean as far as as far as the grills go uh obviously i had
the luck of having an amazing head start
because I've been working with MML
and the stuff that's been created the moment that was announced
in the, yeah, the moment other side was announced basically.
And for me, a lot of those things,
it's often just like kind of like a challenge.
I remember very clearly the first time I was like introduced
in like, there's there's
characters there's mml that allows you to make these characters and then i think i got told as
well it's like yeah but it only works for humanoid characters it doesn't work for anything else
because it's like to the epic unreal skeleton which is like a humanoid skeleton. So sorry, we cannot have grills in there.
And obviously for me, that's almost like a challenge.
It's like, okay, well now I have to figure out why not,
like what is it that makes it break?
What is it that makes it not work?
And learn and kind of figure things out.
Like one of the things for the grills,
they do have legs
but they don't have arms but the the skeleton does need to have arms because it needs to know
like where to place objects or where to like put animations of uh of the emotes uh so what we did
is they have invisible arms basically they have they have the the the rig
the skeleton of it so they can operate and do all the same things they can run around they can shoot
they can do all these things um but you know in a way different form so that's like making sure
that it also just looks nice right that it doesn like, looks all wonky and weird right away,
which is what the grills look like to begin with.
But those are some big considerations.
But the cool part is, is that there's so much tools
and so much things out there in the documentation
right now as well, that you get to just like what Rita said just you can just break stuff you can just try working with your model seeing how that looks
and then you see like oh well my the head of the avatar is backwards right and then you can go okay
now how can I go fix that and how can I change that to make it work and that's that's why these tools are so
important so that you can get to do that and get to try and even with like avatars that are maybe a
little bit more difficult um it is worth kind of trying and figuring things out and um figuring out
creative ways to to make it work work regardless in these different spaces.
Another big, big thing that I think is also really cool for the grills in this regard
is that the grills have always been created in this very modular way
because that's originally how MML was set up so it means that when you're
looking at the model you're not looking at one model you're looking at kind of Lego bricks of
different pieces put together so every trade and everything is its own different model but that
also allows like flexibility in the future when you like
have wearables and things like that to work with all these different uh collections and
mml is pretty cool when it comes to i know that rita and me had like long conversations in the
past about mml but it's all it does it's it's a markup language but all it does, it's a markup language.
All it does is it says, this is eyes.
This is a body.
This is an item.
This is the hand that holds the item.
This is a chair.
This is a cube, right, Link?
You ruined MML for me, Directive.
Now every time I talk to the file i'm gonna i'm gonna hear your voice
i remember i remember very very clearly that you said to me in a group chat i'm never ever going
to use mml and i was like okay well i'll see you next year and we'll talk about it and that's it
now we're here we're talking about it yeah yeah no no 100 but 100%. But to tap on what the director of creators said, and Figgy said, there's no rush. There's no rush. Other side is here, and it's here to stay. Play with your models, make sure they're working properly. It makes life easier, and it makes the process of getting them on other side a lot easier.
life easier and it makes the the process of getting them on other side a lot
easier when everything is working properly everything is looking good and
there's no rush it's not like there's an end date to this this is staying forever
sure and so what one of the things oh just quickly John Carl I was just gonna
tie this back to the grail because we've got so many people from Grail chat here that know Tank ATF.
Some of the things, I guess maybe to simplify it because not everybody knows 3D programs or Unreal Engine or all these things.
Basically, the way that the avatars work is you build your character.
It's kind of like a puppet. But then you need to give Unreal Engine controls to be able to know how that puppet moves in space.
And so if you imagine a marionette where there's a cross with strings on it,
you're going to have to connect how your puppet works to some sort of locomotion.
And there are rules to connect that.
And the official rule is basically like, hey, there's this Unreal Engine standard skeleton.
This is the way that we like to manipulate objects.
And you can definitely like correctly weight it so that, you know, the wrist of your board ape is connected to the wrist of the Unreal skeleton.
So when the Unreal skeleton moves,, the Bored Ape moves.
It's just like a normal marionette.
But imagine you can also get creative
and you can look at the skeleton parts more like data points.
So, and you can get creative with it.
Like if you think about in the Grailed collection,
there's different classes.
You can see me here.
I'm a toad.
It's very similar kind of in style to or proportions, I should say, to like a coda.
But if you look at something like a golem, which has giant like he walks on his hands, he walks on his forearms and he's got these little stubby feet like that's not a normal anthropomorphic
proportion but you can still ideally use the rig that we've given you just instead of parenting
the hands to the hands you would parent like the hands to the legs and feet um so you're basically
just like mixing and matching uh so you can get objects to inherit motion from a normal run cycle,
but instead of mapping it to one type of appendage, you map it to another.
So there's even cases where you can map,
say you bring a car in.
You could use, if your avatar is a car for instance
you could just attach it to what's called the root which is like the overall main marionette piece
and you know the car could kind of like drive around like it's an avatar but it's not it just
is taking the motion from your marionette uh puppet and using it to move around the map.
So I encourage people to look it over,
look at it the way that it's technically correct,
but then also look at how you can manipulate the rules
that we've given to come up with new solutions.
Grills Gang is one of them.
There's going to be many more that step outside
of the framework we've given so uh you know i think that's a great opening sequence for like what's been rolling
out this week and what's to come um we are also on a cadence with other side in particular where
we're pushing out pretty regularly we're aiming to do updates every couple of weeks right now
which was a similar cadence to tank atf originally we would roll to do updates every couple of weeks right now which was a
similar cadence to tank atf originally we would roll out a new feature every two weeks
we've got a whole team pushing out what our new features and sometimes we can get it all to go
out on the same day some days it has to slide but there should be another update featuring a bunch
of fixes and i'm sure james is going to post about a lot of those upgrades,
or you should see it come from the other side account. But we should be pushing out new features for you to be able to build with. Yeah, with that, pass it back over to John Carl.
I'm sure he has some questions on what's been going on. Yeah, it's been awesome to
see on the timeline all the other side images popping up
and it's not just the Bored Apes
and the robots in there.
It's, you know, all of these new collections
and when they're all together side by side
it's just so cool because you're starting to see
the vision come to life.
I think out of all of the aspects of a decentralized
metaverse, one of the most important is identity. And so I think this is probably the biggest
element that has to be open source and open access so that people can be their identity in the metaverse and be able to connect
with others. I do have a couple of questions. I think one, I'll start with this question because
I think with multiple of you up here being project founders, I'd like to just tap in a little more on
that identities part because I feel like it is so critical. I'm interested to hear from you
guys what you have planned. And I know, Rita, you may be able to speak on this. Have you done
events or will you, I imagine, between bubbles and doing different activities? Do you guys,
have you done meetups yet or do you have any official plans
now that your communities are in the other side
to kind of have this central hub that feels more connected
and this human element almost of having your identity there with you?
No, I mean, props to, I want to give a shout out to
other games
they've been hosting
most of the events on
other side
if you get your community on there and you're there
I suggest you reach out to them
they've been the best
organizers for events we did an event
with them and it was amazing.
That is the only event we have done, but we are doing more activations in the near future.
But I know Garga said the other side will be the Roblox killer.
I really want the other side to be the the discord killer where people can hang
around with their communities and chill with their communities on other side yeah i think we have a
couple a little bit of work to do uh you know with even with like getting bubbles up to where
it's parity with this because it would be really cool if we could just like all you know meet with the same
level of functionality that we have in twitter spaces but but do that in bubbles and we're
getting there there's a dedicated team just to bubbles to kind of like make that better and you
should be seeing a lot of improvements but i agree i mean discord is a place that like in the last
cycle did a lot for communities you You were judged by the Discord.
And right now, Twitter Spaces is a great place for communities to meet.
It's very different on the other side, though, because you can see a lot of different, you know, you can see how many people are actually listening to you talk.
Whereas here, you know, I'm looking at Twitter Spaces right now, I can only see the first
like 12 names.
You know, I'm not really seeing like the full mass of all the people that are there.
And that's that's something that we see in Meet Me at the Clubhouse.
You know, Baron and Noah have been doing a great job with that.
When you get a couple hundred people to show up to those, it's a pretty cool visualization of the club.
And I think that each community is going to be able to like pull together their own events like that.
I guess, you know, one thesis that's kind of emerging
and I'd like everybody's take on it
here, but like
one thing that seems to be backed
market proof is that
3D avatars
in any expression, they seem to
help a collection.
There seems to be a lot more
interest in people collecting from a collection. There seems to be a lot more interest in people collecting
from a collection that is able to publish 3D avatars. Why do you think that is? Why do you
think that everybody gets a boost? I know it sounds like kind of an obvious question, but I think
it'd be good for everybody to be able to work on how they articulate it because
if that's the working
thesis right now then it seems like every community should be working towards getting 3d
visualizations of their avatars do you guys agree with that do you guys think that 3d avatars are
good for collections i definitely think that 3d avatars are good but I think what Garga mentioned as well
it's definitely possible for your collection also to use kind of like a hero character
that the collection can use because obviously if you have a collection of 10,000 or 5,000
to make models for all of them sometimes that sometimes that's quite a bit of work.
I think you definitely should do that still,
even if, because that adds to the uniqueness of things, right?
Like you own your NFT and then you own that 3D model
that you get to do it, whatever,
and you can like represent yourself.
But there's also this strong group community thing
where you want to showcase
that you're part of that group
or part of that community.
And one good way is to use like a hero avatar
and use that.
And then you can always add on top of that
later down the line.
So you can start with like one character that is for the
collection uh while you are figuring out how do i create 5 000 or 10 000 of these avatars
because obviously ultimately that is still uh creating creating 5 000 or 10 000 or
a number of anything it it takes it takes more work than just creating one so i would definitely
recommend if you have a collection uh to take a look at that or like representing something even
like even things like um different different brands and stuff like that could could benefit from that maybe not even just collections
yeah i um i think it's very it's very like transformative in a weird way of like when you're on other side as a character of something that you own specifically and i've mentioned this
in quite a few places but like you know being able to walk up to rita because you know rita's ape
when you see it or as g when you see it you know going up to M&Walk when you see the fox that's his or you know directive is
always in different teeth so I actually don't know which one is his all the time but you know
you start to like recognize these folks and a lot of it's from like the 2D but we're moving into the
the 3D role and I think that's just also with time right like it's becoming easier to an extent for
folks to be able to do these kind of things
and being able to to get these things done um you know and i also think like very much in the fashion
of how like you guys written the playbook for a lot of nft projects we kind of did the same with
mayyc to start right like i think like we did the murders to start so it's like maybe just make a
single one right like like even even if your collection just has a single one to start, at least they can
still be show that they're part of that tribe, right?
That part of that group.
And I think that's, I think that's a smart way to do so.
You know, if, if folks are like, oh, I can't, you know, the, the cost of building five or
6,000 or however many it is of these things is too prohibitive.
Well, maybe it's easier to get one made.
Maybe it's easier just to start off with that and see how it takes off and see if it, you know, if people love it.
So I think it's absolutely like just a fascinating thing that we've seen.
And like I was listening to, you know, I think it was Jay Vegas or someone was talking the other day about how like, you know, we have these emotes now, too.
So like I could walk up to Machiavelli and give him a hug.
And it's like, I know I'm giving this person a hug and your brain kind of like you know you
don't do that kid without a twitter space you maybe used to have the facebook poke that was
just showing my age but like you're starting to be able to do something that's more realistic and
more like human based with like seeing something seeing a thing talk to you while you're walking
around and looking at stuff it's much more human based for brains. I think it makes us feel more connected. And that's why I'm so bullish on it.
And I absolutely love how we see, you know, I think John Carl said at the very beginning, it's like, you know, at first it was like the apes and a bunch of robots.
You very rarely see robots now.
I mean, which is, it's nothing against it, but it's like, it's so great seeing all these different characters all in these bubbles and stuff.
It's a really, really fascinating thing.
You know, personally, I've, and I've talked to you figgy about this i've said that one of the biggest things i feel like it's important to any team that that has um that that's continually
funding development is to to turn the the nfts into 3d avatars, because I really believe even from other side, then eventually
it'll also be in Zoom calls or you'll be able to have a conversation and be live with someone
that's in human form, but you'll be your avatar if you're wanting to stay anon. And I think these
are really important elements for this digital world that
we're in. I mean, we're in this frontier that's exploring all these things and we're the ones
that are the original creators. So if you don't have an identity and you don't want to share
your human form, it creates a huge barrier. So I think it actually is one of the most important
things, because if you don't have an identity in the digital realm, then you basically,
there's nothing that you can do here. So I think it is very important, especially for people that
want to stay anonymous, which I think is very important in the digital realm. And I think it's
one of those things that's going to continue to bring more and more
people together because there will be these interactions you have in the other side that
are critical for building community. And you'll be able to do that with everyone else that you
feel part of. I also think it is really cool to have these interoperable spaces. Like you have
X where you can have these profile pictures, these stagnant. But then if I go into the digital world, people recognize me as well
in like a metaverse format. So I think that's another very important element. I think it is
good to have various forms. I don't know if one thing has to take over everything,
but I think it's critical to be able to have these intersections where
if you want to go from one digital space to another, it's very easy for people to connect
and know exactly who you are. And I think that's a huge element of this unlock. I've put on the top,
I'm going to make sure that it's pinned again for everyone that's easy for people to find,
but those docks are at the top for any builders that are in here that want to get their avatars into the other side.
And I think, you know, there's going to be tech savvy devs,
and I'm sure that the list is going to get very long for Yuga to go through to get these avatars rolled out
of various communities. I do have one other question. I think that for non-technical devs
to start kind of getting involved in this work, Rita, I know you have a studio that helped
out different NFT collections. One thing that I'm curious about is for maybe people that aren't
3D tech savvy, are there going to be
routes you already see? I mean, besides Rita, I'd love for you to talk about, you know, kind of your
onboarding process, helping projects. But Figgy, maybe then I can go over to you. And I'm curious
if you see other avenues, have you seen other people popping up that are learning, you know,
these tools so that they can help communities and maybe monetize a skill that they have?
Oh, yeah, a ton. But I think we should start off with Rita first and what he's seeing in the landscape as somebody that has made a lot of these avatars.
Because I think he has particular insights that that can like clue us in on the
thinking of where the space is at yeah I'm going to jump back to the earlier topic I think it's
about digital identity I mean all of us rock a PFP and we've become synonymous with that PFP as part of our identity.
And we see it with other side, we see it with other page or open page.
People like their PFPs.
And people do different art, do different derivatives with their PFP because they identify with it.
And that's where this feeling of being able to walk around with your identity is just connecting yourself to your identity, basically.
That's for the first question.
For the second question, I don't know how to answer that, but there are a lot of people.
I don't know how to answer that, but there are a lot of people.
My DMs are full of different collections that want to get on other page
and want to create 3D avatars.
There are some collections that I recommend they do it.
There are some collections that I tell them to focus with their resources on other stuff.
Some collections don't have the funds to create 3D files,
but they have an amazing community.
It's not a must that you have to do it.
Yes, your community would love it,
but as soon as one model is done,
everybody wants their own model,
which sometimes is a heavy lift for communities.
I don't know if Direct Director, have you seen that?
You've probably gotten a bunch of requests as well.
I did, especially yesterday and today,
around 50 or so.
I agree.
I agree partially, I think, because I do think that what James also mentioned, being able to show yourself as part of the tribe, even if it's a smaller collection and having a kind of like a hero avatar that you can show off is pretty pretty powerful and is it's good for that community in general as well
like other people get to be familiar with that community because they see you show up and i think
for the grills that's been a thing ongoing where you go into these different verses you go into
other side but also like things like nifty Island and Pixels and all kinds of different spaces.
And you see the same avatar show up or the same style of avatar show up.
And then you're like, hey, what is this?
Let me look deeper into this.
I want to be part of this community as well.
And I think with the hero avatar, that's definitely something that could happen as well.
And then that way, budget-wise, you only have to create that one model.
I do think, I do agree with you that the moment you create one,
everybody's going to ask, like, can I have my own?
That's going to be a tricky conversation.
But yeah, because it's a lot of work to do that for $ thousand ten thousand but i think if you have a good enough community they would understand
that that's the approach uh that you pick and um i i'm still in the camp of that it would be
good to have some sort of representation in the space.
No, no, 100%. I mean, some representation is better than no representation.
But at the same time, sometimes it's not needed.
If your community is using the PFP2D on other page,
you don't have to do everything.
Don't put pressure on yourself.
Don't put pressure on yourself don't put pressure on
your as a founder this is the only thing i worry about but yes having one is better than having
zero i imagine and representing the tribe is is important like james and i imagine uh figgy you
might you might be able to tune into this i imagine yuga foresees a world where you know there's going
to be um this this is where kind of this decentralized nature comes in of the, you know, the cost to scale.
Because right now there may be only a few builders that are really proficient with the language to build.
But over time, there will continue to be more and more.
So potentially there will be a hub of builders that can create these avatars.
I imagine that would be kind of the end state
where the cost goes down significantly
as more and more people become fluent
and proficient in the language
to be able to kind of help projects out.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
I mean, I also think there's a bigger take on this, where if you zoom out even more, because if the thesis right now is that a representation of a collection in 3D is EV positive, it's like positive for the ecosystem, then I think, you know, without getting into too much detail, like I don't
think that we should have such a high barrier to entry to have successful projects enter
other side. I think that it's almost like a recall level necessity. If we all believe
that adding avatars is going to be EV positive, then it seems like the top projects should all have some representation of their project in Other Side.
And that we have to get creative and figure out how money cannot be an obstacle for those projects.
cannot be an obstacle for those projects.
So that's something that's certainly on my mind,
and it's probably too early to speak on it here,
but it's something that James and I talk about every day,
and I think that the conversation's even bigger than just other side.
All of this stuff is actually like the invisible tech here.
It's crazy.
We work in a space where like
usually we're just talking about tech in kind of an abstract sense but like you can't even feel
the tech really when you're when you're in this you don't realize that all of these are either
shadow tokens on ape chain that some of this can move around with ApeCoin. And so all of this, to me, is pushing forward on the narrative
that getting people on the other side,
getting them to represent their communities,
is EV positive to ApeCoin, ApeChain, and the collections.
And we've got to do whatever moves we can to be creative
to support that activity happening.
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that's a good way to start closing out
because I think I love hearing
that that's at the forefront of your mind
and that those are conversations,
how to continue to make more and more communities
feel like it's accessible
and that the barrier to entry
becomes lower and lower over time.
Before we get going, I know there's one speaking of other side and that the barrier to entry becomes lower and lower over time.
Before we get going, I know there's one, speaking of other side and seeing all these avatars,
the one group that's been doing it better than anyone doing events and having fun in the other side while it's been open is the other games. And I've got Hype up here. I want him to share a little bit before we start closing out about what's going on this weekend with the other games.
Yeah, thanks, Don.
What's up, Figgy and everybody else on the stage and everybody in the crowd?
We obviously got Honeybee and McAvely down in the crowd as well, and V-Spot is a part of the team.
Yeah, this is going to be our eighth game this weekend.
And again, thanks to OtherSide and obviously all these avatars being added,
it's given us the opportunity to support the communities,
really proliferate the brand itself,
which is other games to be able to support and host all these different
collections,
including the G's and obviously,
you know,
being there in the last eight weeks and now being able to do Foxy fam this
weekend is going to be another amazing moment. So for those that don you know, being there in the last eight weeks and now being able to do Foxy Fam this weekend is going to be another amazing moment.
So for those that don't know, you can follow us on other games, XYZ.
Every weekend we have these games where we have participation and we have competition where people can play and win prizes.
But we also have, just for participating, opportunities to go into raffles.
to go into raffles.
And so this Saturday at 4 p.m. Eastern,
we will be hosting not only the games,
but we're going to be also hosting the Foxy Fam,
which launched yesterday.
So I'm going to post to the top if that's okay, John.
Yes, go ahead.
And yeah, just, you know, again, from the four of us,
we want to say thank you to everybody that's participated.
Obviously, everything that Rita's done and directive,
and of course, MM, who have added their collection into the mix,
outside of the assets we're in game already,
with obviously the Voidbeers and the BoardAid and the Mutants
and Nebits and whatnot.
But yeah, no, definitely want to say thank you to everybody,
and we look forward to the participation this weekend.
It's going to be fun.
Obviously, there's been new additions that were updated last week
with the train, and I believe there's going to be
some more cool stuff coming soon, so I will post it up. And John, thank you so much for train. And I believe there's going to be some more cool stuff coming soon.
So I will post it up.
And John, thank you so much for the time.
I know you're going to be shutting down.
Figgy, Rita, James, Directive, amazing job.
And M.M., shout out to you as well.
Thank you so much.
I wanted to make sure we got that out.
If you are, just anyone in the audience can attend.
You don't have to have an avatar that is supported by your NFT yet.
You can just go in and play as a robot.
So please go check it out, have some fun. And if you're a builder in the audience,
make sure to check out those docs, which is also pinned, so you can start working to get
your collection into the other side. All right, we are coming to the end of our conversation
tonight. But man, what a great one
it was. As we wrap up, I just want to thank everyone that took time out of their night to
join us for another episode of Grail Chat. And to those of you floating around other side in a
bubble listening as well, thank you. Special thanks to my co-host Figgy and our guest James
Rita and Directive Creator in a space that moves so fast. It's nice to come together
and do some learning.
And we will continue doing that
in a couple weeks
as we prepare to join you all
for another show.
Until then,
good night, everyone. The Thank you. And while you're looking through those pinned chats, looking into the other games, and looking
into those docks, we've got one more song for you to close out the night.
This is a special shout out to the Crypto Tats in the audience and the Crazy Carl Collective.
We always have our after party song to close us out. We embrace evolution, lift each other up, we be rooting.
We're stronger and we're moving together and not alone.
Elevate it up like a throne, ride the crypto wave that we own.
Not thinking short, thinking long term.
Build a conviction, we all get a turn.
Quick to listen, slow to judge and learn.
Growing together if you're concerned.
We got you covered, newbie or a pro.
And got everything you need to know Let's go, let's go together, oh Let's go, let's go together
CCC, we got you forever
Ride that quick, go in for the cheddar center
Mash it up in the NFC world
1, 2, 1, 2, wanna do well
Mints in process, get me the cell
If I'ma do something, let me do it well
Educate yourself if you wanna learn
Let's start linking things in long term.
Never bored in the CCC.
Don't know we in the web 3G.
It don't matter if you're a newbie.
Let's go, let's go together.
Oh, let's go, let's go together.
Let's go, let's go together.
Oh, CCC, we got you forever.
Write that crypto away for the cheddar.
Write that crypto away for the cheddar.
We got you covered here.
Make it better. Mm, mm, mm, let's go, let's go together, oh. Mm, mm, mm, let's go, let's go together.
C, C, C, we got new forever.
Ride that crypto wave for the cheddar, said ride that crypto wave for the cheddar.
We are crazy.
Have a good night everyone
