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Grateful Show #155: ERC-6551 changes everything
Recorded: June 3, 2023 Duration: 1:53:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
name Nicholas Rock, you don't stop, rock the rhythm that'll make your body rock.
For so far you've heard my voice, but I brought two friends along, and next on the mic is
my man Hank, come on and sing that song.
Check it out, I'm the C-A-N-C-N, the O-V-A-N, the rest is F-L-Y, you see I go by the code
of the doctor of the mix, and these reasons I'll tell you why, you see I'm six foot one,
and I'm tons of fun, and I dress to a tee, you see I got more clothes than Muhammad Ali,
and I dress so viciously, I got bodyguards, I got two big cars that definitely ain't
the whack, I got a Lincoln Continental and some new Cadillac, so after school I take a dip
in the pool, which is really on the wall, I got a color TV, so I can see the Knicks play
basketball, hear me talking about checkbook, credit cards, more money than a sucker could
ever spend, but I wouldn't give a sucker or a punk from the rock and not a dime till I
made it again, everybody get low, care, move, care, what you gonna do today, cause I'm
gonna get up my girl, gonna get some stuff.
GM, GM guys, I hope you're having a great day, it's beautiful weather here again, it's
incredible, so if you have any questions, hop into the comments, you can ask there, also
say hi or post some GIFs and retweet the space, so more people can vibe with us.
I see Nana here, you know, he's in LA, so he's just waking up, so I have to play some
song that will, that will do the, that will do the thing.
So let's go, everybody.
I'm going to show you how, come on, all in together now.
Yeah, ooh, yeah, yeah.
That's how we got it, please.
Stop trying to be loud as me, because you can do that.
Think about the pay and rush roulette.
We didn't know the matter.
I passed my ass against the line.
The last one is first on line.
Never step in a rep in a run.
I got a weapon, it's wild.
Please turn the brothers on, like it's out.
I'm popping up a tremorin, blutin' like a gamillion.
But by a sky, oh my God, I'm so high.
Cause they say I run, they say I look like a tremorin.
Oh, what does the thing to make a kid, make a million children?
Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap!
Slap! Slap! Let the boys be boys! Slap! Slap!
Slap! Slap! Slap! Let the boys be boys! Slap! Slap! Slap!
Guys, when I did the research for today's space, I got so excited.
It's so amazing.
And can you imagine that my pink ape can actually own basketball?
Not in my wallet, but in his wallet.
What? What? That's crazy.
I can't wait to talk to you guys.
We have one more minute to go.
So retweet the space.
If you have any questions or want to say hi,
jump into the comments and let's go.
100% and that's my basketball, guys.
Have a great day.
This is great for show 155.
GMGM, everybody.
Such an exciting topic today.
ERC 6551.
Oh my God.
Before I welcome our guest today,
I want to say hi to Beast, my co-host,
and then Micah.
What's up, Beast?
How are you doing today?
How excited are you, man?
GM, GM, man.
I'm super excited.
I think I should go with a little backstory
that lets start this space.
What do you think, Grateful?
If you're there...
Oh, sorry.
I was like, I usually talk to music.
You're pumping music.
Go for it, bro.
So, a few days ago,
I was exploring this ERC 6551, right?
And at one point,
I got deeper and I was like,
wow, this is insane.
I mean, does it mean that my cool cat
can now own NFTs?
Like, the NFT now can own NFT.
So, what I did,
I wrote a thread about it.
And what happened,
it went viral,
and about 400,000 people saw it.
So, I spent a couple of hours,
you know, responding to all the replies.
And when I went through the replies,
I actually realized that there were two things.
First, that people are saying like,
wow, this is insane.
I never heard about that.
And the second was like,
wow, I'm so bullish about that.
So, I'm super fascinated and super excited
that we're having the co-authors
of this proposal today on the show,
and we can explore that.
So, super pumped, man.
Woo!
Love that, man.
And guys,
this also shows
that you can always connect the dots
only backwards
because Beast was writing threads
in January 23 like crazy,
you know, one thread a day.
And look where he's now,
you know, 400k views.
That's insane.
Insane.
Insane.
Micah, how you doing, man?
What's up?
Yo, what's up, guys?
Hey, thanks so much
for bringing me up here.
I really appreciate you
including me in the conversation.
Yeah, I'm super stoked to be here.
I've been super excited
about the concept
of bindable tokens
for a long time
and hoping I can just
bring some thoughtful discussion,
questions to the conversation
for Benny and Jaden,
the masterminds.
So, yeah,
super looking forward to it.
Thanks.
100%.
100%.
Super excited.
We probably have more guests
that will join us
during the space, guys.
So, just request
we get you here
before I welcome our guests.
Also, go into the comments.
If you have any questions,
want to ask something,
go in there.
We will go through them
at the last part of the show
and we try to answer
most of them
and also retweet the space.
But now is the time
to invite Benny
and Jaden
on the stage.
So, are you ready, guys?
Are you ready?
Yes.
Let's go!
Let's go!
GM, GM, guys.
Let's fucking go.
GM, GM.
How are you guys doing?
What's up, Benny?
What's up, Jaden?
Good morning, guys.
Great to be here.
Hey, good morning.
Super hyped.
This is probably
the most hyped space
I've ever been in.
So, it's incredible.
It's Saturday morning
and we're ready to go.
Let's go.
I love it, guys.
Especially if you have morning.
I know the energy is high
but, you know,
your day will be crazy.
Maybe you can run a marathon
after this.
I don't know.
But the topic is super exciting.
I love it.
And, you know,
we often talk
and I see Nana here.
You know,
we talk a lot
with other Space FM
and with other people
about the metaverse, guys.
And, oh, the use cases.
It's insane.
So, but
I don't want to, you know,
go to the future too much.
We would like to start
a bit with you guys
because I know, Benny,
that you are part of the team
that work on ERC 721
CryptoKitties.
And basically,
that's the way
how I got into crypto.
Like in 2017,
I bought my first CryptoKitties.
Then I forgot about them.
And then I bought
another project
that you work on
and that was NBA Top Shot.
And since then,
I've been here.
So, that's,
what a journey.
Would you like to share
something more
about what you're doing
and then we go to Jayden?
Yeah, it's been
an incredible journey.
It's been six years,
but in my mind,
it feels like decades.
But, yeah,
it was really fun
working with the team
to launch CryptoKitties
and 721.
And we never really knew
where it would go.
I remember I was
traveling around
in around 2018.
I think ICOs
were still happening
and I was doing talks
and I was like,
hey, NFTs are awesome.
Like, they, you know,
like it's digital art.
It's digital collectibles.
You can breed them.
You can interact on chain.
And, you know,
a lot of people
in 2018, 2017
were like,
what's this crazy?
You know,
this is weird.
This is lame.
This is, like,
not cool.
What's cool
is launching
a blockchain
or launching,
I don't know,
an ICO or whatever.
But I'm so excited
that this space
has grown so much
in the last six years
with all these
amazing projects
and seeing,
you know,
majority of the people
here using,
you know,
their NFTs
as their profile picture.
And, you know,
six years ago,
that wasn't the case,
right?
We were still using
our faces.
I mean,
I'm still using my face.
But, you know,
so it's been really,
really fun
and had a chance
to kind of be part
of the team
that launched,
formed Dapper
Labs
and Cheese Wizards
and NBA Top Shot,
as Grateful mentioned.
So it's been
a fun journey.
And to me,
I think now
that we're in 2023,
it feels like
a full circle moment.
It feels like
NFTs are getting,
moving into
a new era.
So I think
it's incredibly awesome
to be part of that
with Jaden
and everyone
who's been contributing.
It's important to know
that even though
me and Jaden
are the ones
here that are talking,
we do have
a working group
of like 500 developers
from OpenCC,
Port,
Sora,
Gnosis,
like just incredible
projects from the
entire Web3 space.
We have like
Manifold Team,
Wilkins,
and his team
contributing to the standard.
There's plenty more.
So, you know,
we're kind of like
the stewards here,
but the 6551 movement
and community
and standard
is really a community thing.
Love it.
Thank you so much
for sharing
such an amazing history
that onboarded
a lot of people actually.
Like I think
CryptoKitties
and NBA Top Shot
onboarded
so many people
into Web3.
So that's amazing.
And let's see
what's going to happen
with ERC 6551.
Jaden,
would you also like
to share a bit about you?
Yeah, for sure.
So I've been working
with Benny
on Future Primitive,
which is our venture studio
for the past
year and a half,
a little over that,
I think.
And kind of
the original premise
was let's launch
some weird,
crazy experimental NFTs.
Like let's kind of
push the bounds
of how far
we can go
with what NFTs are,
what NFTs can do.
So over the past
year and a half,
we've been kind of
doing that
in a lot of different projects.
We've worked on
some crazy things.
One of the ones
we've spent
the most time
working on
is Stapleverse
and most recently
with the Sapiens project.
We've done a lot
of crazy stuff.
Like we've done,
we did like
a project
where we airdropped
pager NFTs,
like pagers
from the 90s
as an NFT
to everybody
at a hackathon.
If you texted
your wallet address
to a certain phone number,
you would get
this free pager NFT
in return.
But then what would happen
is you would get pages
every time somebody
sent a text message
to that phone number.
It would go to everybody
who had the NFT.
It's kind of this experiment
in like what if
NFTs could be
like a broadcast
communication tool.
And so we had that
that was a lot of fun.
People were just
getting spammed
with text messages
over this beeper network
when we were there.
We did another project
that was like
we went to Eat Denver
and we brought
a ton of beads with us
and we taught people
at Eat Denver
how to make beaded lizards.
I don't know
if you remember
these things,
but like from back
when you were a kid
at like summer camp,
like stitching the beads
together and it forms a lizard
put on like a key chain
or something.
So we brought a bunch
of those to Eat Denver.
We taught people
how to make these
beaded lizards
and then we used
these beaded lizards
and each one of them
had a special chip on it
that was a hardware wallet
and we used these bead lizards
to form a DAO.
So if you had one
of the bead lizards,
you were like kind of
a guardian of the DAO.
You could let people in.
The only way to join the DAO
was to find somebody
in person,
tap on their lizard
and minch your lizard identity.
So like we do a lot
of weird stuff with NFTs,
right?
Like how can you kind of
take this concept
of a token
that we're kind of used
to just being buying
and selling and trading?
How do you make it
more than that?
So that's been,
you know,
the past year and a half
at Future Primitive
what we've been working on.
Prior to that,
I've done a lot
of software stuff
about a decade
building software
and various things.
Big co-startups
ran a startup
for a long time
and so now kind of
diving deep into
all the crazy stuff
you can do with NFTs.
It's so cool, guys,
that you're doing
all these experimental stuff.
I mean,
pager NFTs.
Like, wow,
how has the technology
evolved for you guys
just within the past
two years?
Because we always say
like, guys,
like zoom out a bit,
you know,
there is a lot of things
actually that happen.
At the same time,
like big things
need some time
to be developed, right?
Like how is it
for you guys
just if we think
about the past two years?
Like how well
are we doing
as a space?
Yeah,
it's been crazy
to see the growth
of the space
over the past two years.
Like when we
originally launched
Stapleverse,
which is one of the
first projects
we worked on,
there was basically
no tooling around
building NFT projects.
There was like,
you know,
you were writing
like snapshot scripts
from scratch.
There was no tooling
for gathering snapshots.
You were like,
we had to roll
our own token
gating solution
because all you had
was collab land
and there was like,
we were kind of like
pushing the limits
of what you could do
with that.
doing things like
airdrops is really
not very much
good tooling around us.
So like from
even just in the past
year and a half,
two years,
we've gone from
most things being
every project
rolls their own tooling,
builds money
from the ground up,
has to start
from scratch.
Now we've got
this amazing ecosystem
of tools
and ways to
build NFTs
but also ways
to interact
with NFTs,
right?
Like,
you know,
we pretty much
just had OpenSea
when it started out
and now there's
like huge competition
in marketplaces
and all sorts
of different
like specialized
marketplaces.
You know,
now it's gotten
so easy to mint
an NFT.
You can just go
to Zora,
upload some images
and hit mint,
right?
Like that was
something that was
just,
you know,
so far away
from what it was
when we were
kind of like
originally launching
these tokens.
So the amount
of tooling,
the amount
of growth,
the amount
of like more
people interacting
with these
because it's
so much easier
to has been
crazy.
So like I know
it's easy to get
like bogged down
day to day
of like,
man,
like,
you know,
it's so complex.
It's so like,
it's so early,
like there's so much
that needs to be done.
But really,
we've made a ton
of progress
over the past
year and a half.
And when I say
I mean we as a space,
right?
Everybody who's
involved in NFTs,
everybody who's
interacting with
these ecosystems
that are being built,
everybody who's
building tooling.
And so it's
really come a long
way.
Yeah,
I would add as
well,
like I think
it's really
interesting that
this last
bull run of
NFTs,
it's primarily
been focused
focused on,
like the way
I see
like utility,
right?
In my mind
there's like
two types.
One is
like social
in real life
utility that
includes
like going
to party,
token gain
parties or
being able
to claim
a hoodie,
a physical
hoodie.
And that,
you know,
something that
I did not
expect but
certainly
became a
really,
really big
thing.
You know,
it showed,
I think it's
because the
pandemic,
everyone was
cooped up,
you know,
people were
buying NFTs
and then
when that
kind of
like unlocked,
people wanted
to see each
other,
wanted to go
to NFTYC,
go to the
Zuki party
you know,
board of
yachts and
all hang out
and,
you know,
I think at the
end of the day
we're humans,
right?
Like we love
being in digital
spaces but
nothing really
beats,
you know,
shaking someone's
hand and
talking to them
you know,
having a drink
or something like
that.
So I felt
like there
was a lot
in the last
two years,
a lot of
innovation on
the social
in real life
utility and
that included
like a lot
of clothing
drops that
were token
gated,
Shopify,
plugins,
all of that.
The other
side,
on-chain
utility has
been interesting
because pretty
much for the
last six
years,
every project
has been
building their,
like at
least the
ones that
have enough
money and
all that,
they have,
they hire
developers and
they start
writing custom
contracts and
that give like,
you know,
milk coins or
you nest your
moon bird or
you do things,
you stake your
NFT and,
you know,
each of those
projects are
writing their
own contracts
that's specific
to them and
it's not really
reusable by the
entire space.
So what we
kind of see is
this fragmentation
where projects
that,
you know,
mint out and
generate a lot
of revenue,
they have enough
capital to like
expand their
development team
and build these
utilities.
But,
you know,
certainly there
are a lot of
like hundreds
or thousands
of projects
who,
you know,
unfortunately
didn't mint
out or
didn't generate
enough revenue
and so they
kind of can't
really add
these like
on-chain utility
easily,
right?
It's kind of
complicated and
costly and risky
as well to
security perspective.
So that's kind
of been the two
years that I've
seen in the
last bull run.
Nice.
I love it.
I love to see
all the progress
and we kind
of getting into
that ERC
6551 now
because you
touched the
creators.
I listened to
your previous
interviews also,
Benny,
and you also
mentioned that it's
going to be a big
step also for
creators and
smaller projects.
projects and I
think it's time
to slightly
explore it and
uncover what it
So what it
What is ERC
6551?
Yeah, so the
simplest thing,
the one sentence
thing, one sentence
summary of 6551 is
every NFT has a
wallet, right?
You're just holding
your NFTs in a
wallet, right?
Everyone on this
call has a
wallet, whether
it's MetaMask,
a Rainbow, or
maybe you're using
a new system if
you're really
security conscious.
But all of
you have a
wallet.
But what 6551
does is it gives
your NFT its own
wallet, a wallet
that's owned by
your NFT, that's
self-sovereign to
your NFT, that can
never be taken away
from your NFT.
What that means is
your NFT can now
own things, just
like you can own
things in your
wallet.
Your NFT can do
that too, can own
any type of token
you want, anything
on-chain your NFT
can own.
It also means your
NFT can do
things.
So anything you
can do with a
wallet, whether
it's trading
meme coins on
Uniswap, or
trading NFTs, or
minting NFTs, or
whatever you do
with your wallet,
your NFT can now
do the same
thing on its
own, as its
own unique
identity on-chain.
And that opens
up just a crazy
amount of
possible things
you can build.
So in a
nutshell, 6551
gives every
single NFT, from
CryptoKitties to
the project that
launches tomorrow,
its own
wallet.
I love that
idea, because
some time ago
we bought
Gucci
pendant for
Coda or
Vessel, but
it's not
attached to
our NFT, I
think.
It's probably
in some
database in
Yuga, but
I'm not
sure.
It's definitely
not using
ERC 6551, and
I think these
use cases, and
we want to talk
about a lot of
them, it's
going to be a
complete game
changer, right?
So it's
really, really
exciting.
Micah, also
if you have
any questions,
raise your
hand and
jump in, because
I think with
the use cases
and stuff, it's
going to get
really, you
know, I'm so
pumped about
this, because I
have like 30
use cases that I
would like to
try, but we
get there, we
get there.
Yeah, I'll go
ahead and jump
in, actually.
So I've been
tracking along
with Benny and
I believe Jaden
too, pretty much
since the ERC
721 standard.
We had a meeting
at ETH Denver, I
think, back in,
I don't even
know, probably six
years ago.
And since then,
we've been talking
a lot about just
the evolution of
721s, and it's
extremely exciting
to see the pace
at which it's
started to happen
over the last
couple of years.
But I guess
apart from
kitty hats, which
I think is
probably one of
the first bindable
tokens that had
some moderate
success, I'm
really curious how
you guys feel
about, you
know, bindable
tokens kind of
finally coming to
fruition, and
beyond that, what
your favorite use
case for them
would be?
That's a good
question.
Yeah, and there's
been a lot of
projects, a lot
of standards, a
lot of things in
the past that
have tried to
add this
capability of
NFTs owning
things, or
bindable NFTs,
or nested
NFTs, or
hierarchical NFTs,
or whatever you
want to call
it, right?
We're not the
first to do
this, like we're
not claiming
invention over
anything here,
but looking at
all of the
things that have
come before
6551, they've
all kind of
suffered a couple
of key
limitations.
The first and
the biggest of
those is they
only work with
some NFTs,
right?
If you, like,
ERC998 was an
early version of
this.
It's a standard
that allowed
NFTs to own
ERC20 tokens and
other NFTs, but
it only worked
with NFTs that
implemented ERC998,
which wasn't most
NFTs at the time,
and still isn't
most NFTs.
And those NFTs
that were 998
compatible could
only own other
998 compatible
NFTs.
Or, you know,
the NFTs, like,
they kind of had
this top-down,
bottom-up approach.
Like, it was only
certain NFTs that
could take advantage
of this ecosystem.
And we've seen
the same thing
happen over and
over again with
different proposals,
different, you
know, products,
where it's, you
know, it's kind of
hacking around this
idea of ownership
by embedding
everything in the
NFT contract
itself.
And so, like,
all of the rules
about how this
NFT can own
things, what this
NFT can own,
need to live at
the NFT contract
level.
And the reason
that's a problem
is the NFT
contract doesn't
change, right?
It's immutable.
You deploy it once,
it just sits there
forever.
So if somebody
adds a new token
type later on,
which is what
happened, right?
Like, ERC-998
was before ERC-1155.
And so, of course,
it didn't support
1155s.
And so when
1155 came out,
ERC-998 couldn't
handle this, right?
There was no
support for
1155 tokens
within ERC-998.
And so, because
all of this logic
is, like, written
at the NFT
contract level,
there's just
necessary limitations
to it.
There's only so
many things that
your NFT can own.
And you're kind
of, like, kind
of trying to add
ownership in a way
that's not really
the native way that
Ethereum handles
ownership, because
how Ethereum handles
ownership is via
a wallet.
Everything that can
be owned on
Ethereum is owned
by a wallet, right?
There's no real
kind of native
concept of Ethereum
of ownership that
doesn't include
wallets in some way.
And so we've been
super deep down the
rabbit hole of all
this.
We've tried all of
the products.
We've tried all of
the standards.
We've built
experimental things
with them.
And what we
realized was, like,
these all came
short because they
never actually went
as far as giving
a full self-sovereign
wallet.
And that's what's
really needed to
allow NFTs to
own things, to
allow that kind
of nested
ownership, to
allow for
participation by
an NFT in
anything that can
happen on chain,
right?
Anything short of
a full wallet is
going to be
necessarily limited.
And so that was
kind of the initial
idea for 6551.
We were working
on a project.
It's called
Sapiens.
It just revealed,
you know, the
other day, but
we knew we
wanted to build
a project that
had, there
were PFPs, you
can see one in
my PFP right
here, and you
could equip
clothing onto
and off of the
PFP.
And those clothing
items were
represented as
NFTs.
So we knew we
wanted to have,
like, t-shirt
NFTs and hoodie
NFTs and hat
NFTs and, you
know, you name
it, we wanted it
to be represented
as a token.
And we wanted
your PFP to own
its own clothing,
to have its own
control over that
clothing, to be
able to equip it
on and off.
And so we went
deep down the
rabbit hole of
all of these
solutions that
are out there.
And none of
them really fit
all of the
things that we
wanted in an
ownership solution.
None of them,
you know, there's
a lot of
limitations with
what types of
tokens they
could be used
with.
There was a
lot of
limitations around,
you know, some
of the more
centralized services.
You're relying on
a contract that
somebody owns.
And at the end
of the day, most
of them were
allowed the NFT
creator to
control all the
rules of what
your NFT can and
can't do.
And we really
wanted the NFTs
themselves to be
self-sovereign, to
be able to do
their own things,
for the holders of
the NFTs to have
the power, rather
than the devs and
the creators of the
NFT collection.
And so that was a
lot of the early
ideas that went into
thinking about 6551.
So there's been lots of
people who have blazed
this trail of
equippable NFTs,
nested NFTs, you
know, even NFTs
having wallets isn't
necessarily a new
thing.
But what is new is
every NFT gets to
have a wallet now,
from the earliest
deployed NFT to the
newest one.
And every NFT has a
fully self-sovereign
wallet.
You, as the NFT
holder, have full
control.
Nobody else can take
that away from you.
And yeah, so that's
6551 in a nutshell.
I think I got a little
off the rails there.
But there have been
a lot of other things
that have come along.
We think 6551, by
going as far as giving
every NFT a self-sovereign
wallet, is really what
will make NFTs able to
participate in everything
on Ethereum, not just
in a limited capacity.
And it's every NFT on
Ethereum, right?
It means even
retroactively.
So when I'm scrolling
through the audience
here and I see all the
Ethereum PFPs, it can be
applicable to all the
NFTs, right?
Yeah, every single NFT
that you see on a PFP
in this call already
has a wallet address.
You can go and look at
that wallet address
today.
You can start sending
things to that wallet
right away and start
using it right away.
There's nothing that
would stop you from
doing that.
I think great point is
that on-chain utility is
also important, not only
the off-chain one that
you mentioned, the
black hoodies, you
know, and like the
concerts and all the
stuff.
So this opens like new
possibilities for
projects, brands and
companies.
And, you know, we
talk about, I mentioned
it a lot about a
metaverse, right?
So we actually represent
our virtual identities
here, right?
So you see my pink
ape, that's my virtual
identity.
And I would like to
change it maybe a bit,
you know, maybe I don't
like the white tank top
and I want to maybe
have some nice, you
know, coat or something
like that.
And basically with
ERC 6551, my ape can
own all these things
and they are attached
to the ape, right?
Is that correct?
Yeah, exactly.
So your ape has its
own wallet and you
can own anything you
want in there.
It could be like
clothing tokens
representing, you
know, things that
could be wearable.
It could be like
you're in there
collecting Zora open
editions and just
minting cool artwork
into your NFT.
It could be, you
know, you've got your
ape NFT and, you
know, the next big
drop from Yuga comes
out and you mint
it as your ape
rather than having
it, you know,
minting it as your
wallet.
So you can put
anything you want
in there.
That's really cool
and especially for
the Metaverse
experiences when you
have some, you
know, your avatar
and you want to
interact with like
things and stuff.
It can be really,
really incredible
beast.
Do you want to ask
about more utilities?
I know you sent
me the list, so.
Yeah, I was
thinking to ask
maybe what is the
the like the
most popular
or the best
use case, you
know, you guys
like Benny and
Jaden because the
most common
question I received
was why do I need
my NFT to actually
own the NFT,
right?
And I think it's
the best way to
explain it is actually
to show the use
cases because it's
very clear and
very easy to
understand that
through the use
cases.
Yeah, I can
kick this off.
I mean, I think
what generally
happens is people
ask that question
and then we start
talking about a
few and then
then everyone
starts to go down
a rabbit hole
of like, oh my
God, like I can
do so many
things.
So I think the
one that Jaden
talked about is
probably one of the
biggest.
It relates to
PFPs.
Essentially, it's a
okay, can you
hear me?
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're back, you're
back.
Yeah, my timer
rang.
Yeah, so the
first use case, it
relates to PFPs
and it's the idea
of an inventory
system.
So your PFP as
a character now
has a decentralized
inventory system.
It can own its
own items, gear,
equipment, clothing
and I think that's
going to be one of
the primary, you
know, big use
cases, that's
something that we're
doing on Sapiens
and Fuo announced
this, you know,
this week that
Fuo World will
also have some
element of
collecting and
equipping.
So that's one
big one.
The second one
that's not related
to PFPs are
NFT memberships.
So some of
these DAOs that
have launched in
the last few
years, some of
them, you know,
obviously started
with ERC20 tokens,
but some of
them are NFT
membership and
they typically
look like a
card like Pool
Suite or FWB or
Seed Club and
all of that.
And so with a
membership NFT
card, one of the
biggest challenges
is around reputation
loyalty, right?
Where if you own
that NFT, that's
great, but how do
I like through my
commitments and
engagements, whether
it's off-chain or
on-chain, how does
someone kind of
record that and
give me something
that recognizes
that, right?
Well, right now
that happens.
You get soul-bound
tokens into your
wallet, you get
PO-apps, you get
digital art that's
sent to your
Metamask or
whatever, whichever
wallet you pick,
but it's fragmented,
right?
It's not tied to the
membership card.
When I sell the
membership card, I
still have all these
soul-bound PO-app
tokens and digital
art.
In theory, it
should be actually
inside of the
membership NFT and
it kind of displays
like all of your
reputation, your
loyalty to that
community, right?
So that's the
second one.
The third one, I
think the other way
to think about it is
the composability
nature of NFTs.
So, you know, in
the music space,
there's Stems
DAO that's working
with Stems, there's
sound with music
NFTs, they've even
explored like a
mixtape with
Selection Radio.
And so I think the
best way to think
about it is now we
can break NFTs into
tiny little pieces
like Lego blocks and
it could relate to
music, you know, for
digital fashion, it
could be digital
textiles and fibers
and patterns that
are inside that make
up a material which
make up a digital
hoodie, right?
And so you could
start to just
extrapolate all these
different layers
down.
So those are kind
of like the really
big ones that we
see, the
decentralized inventory
system, a NFT
membership that has
loyalty and reputation
and then kind of
seeing 6551 as
like making NFTs
into Lego blocks.
Yeah, I see
Mabineta here in
the audience and we
chat before the
space and one of the
use cases she mentioned
was like attaching
badges to specific
PFPs like, you
know, 10KTF1 for
example, when you go
to Battletown, you do
the battle and you
can have the badge
attached to the
NFT, right?
That could be also
one of the use cases
and what's really cool
about this in my
opinion is that now
you can track the
transaction history of
the NFT, right?
So you see who bought
it for how much, when,
et cetera, et cetera.
But now you will have
a history basically of
the NFT, what
happened.
So you will see the
fights, you will see
the inventory.
That's really, really
cool.
And I think this will
bring more, more
possibilities for new
use cases and for
much better experiences.
Micah, I see your
hand.
Go ahead, man.
Yeah, I just want to,
well, first of all, I
want to go all the way
back to a couple of
things Jaden had
mentioned.
One of them is
congrats on the
Stapleverse launch.
If people haven't
checked that out, they
should absolutely do
that.
It's an amazing
project.
One of the first
NFTs where you can
actually view the
NFTs inventory within
the marketplace.
So yeah, definitely
check that out.
And I think that's a
good segue into kind
of the first use case
of inventories, which
we've already touched
on a little bit.
But one of the
really exciting and
really interesting sort
of out there use cases
that I always like to
bring up to make,
make the concept even
more solidified,
which also touches on
something that Jaden
had mentioned around
NFT agency.
So agency or self
sovereignty for an
NFT itself is a really
fascinating concept.
And from a gaming
perspective, you could
think about it from
like an NPC.
So imagine if an
NPC had his own
wallet.
If he was like, you
know, a store where
you go purchase items
from someone within a
game, you could
actually go up to
that character in the
game.
He has his own wallet
and his own inventory
and you'd be able to
purchase items directly
from this NFT, which
is a really fascinating
use case that isn't
even directly associated
to, you know, the
NFT being in someone's
wallet.
It's just its own
object kind of out
there with his own
agency.
Yeah, go ahead.
But if you if you want
to add anything, go
ahead.
Yeah, I love it.
And for everyone
here, Micah's, you
know, we're working
on we had a call
yesterday and Ape
Pages is awesome.
It's he showed us an
early demo of it.
It's an inventory
system for the Bored
Apes and the Mutant
Apes.
It's incredible.
So, yeah, to
Micah's point, like
this is something we've
been thinking about a
lot, you know, since
the 80s, any RPG
games, they've had
NPCs, non-player
characters, right,
that kind of fill in
these worlds.
So if you've seen my
tweets, like of
recent days, I've been
tweeting this about a
lot.
I feel like a lot of
metaverses, especially
and it really depends on
how you define metaverse
because the fact that
we're all hanging out
digitally right here on
Twitter space, I think
you could call this a
metaverse and I actually
think it's a good one.
But there are metaverses
that you go to a
website and you're in a
3D environment or on a
2D, 3D environment and
you're running around and
stuff and in those types
of metaverses, one thing
that I've been tweeting
about is like they have a
really big problem.
The big problem is that
they have an empty world
problem and a lot of
these metaverses, like
sure, there's an event,
people show up and then
pretty much it's dead.
It's a ghost town.
Nobody hangs out in these
worlds.
So the empty world
problem is a very serious
problem.
There's literally nothing
like when you go there by
yourself, like later today
to any metaverse, like
you'll be there by
yourself.
And so I think what
Micah brought up is super
important because we have
to start thinking as a
as an ecosystem, as a
space, like, OK, if we do
believe in these digital
worlds and these digital
economies that are powered
by crypto, we really need
to start thinking about how
to populate these digital
worlds, is it is it us as
humans who are going to be
hanging out there 24
seven with our new Apple
headset, you know, VR,
Google or whatever, or is
it going to be something
else?
is it going to be AI?
And so NPC, at least, you
know, the definition that we
have for it is networked
playable characters, networked
being they're part of a
community, they're part of a
blockchain, they're on chain.
Every action, you know, is, you
know, recorded as a part of the
shared history playable.
You know, it could be taking
actions and utilities and then
characters.
So characters could be a
character that you control as a
human or it's, you know, AI
assisted or fully AI driven.
Right.
So we kind of go into this
10,000 foot of life.
OK, well, can we have these
networked playable characters
populate these empty worlds?
Can there be let's say when we're
we're asleep?
Can, you know, a beast is cool
cats hang out in some of the
metaverse and, you know,
cool beast is cool cats has its
own wallet that beast give, you
know, you give it an allowance
and you're like, all right, go
go play in the in the cool cats
world.
Just don't spend more than, you
know, 500 bucks tonight.
And hopefully you can bring back
even more money, you know, find
some opportunities on on the
Uniswap MEV or something like
that.
And I think we're going to get to
this world really, really soon.
I think even in the next two to
three months, we're going to
start to see these like
automated NFTs or NPCs
running wild on the
blockchain and people
programming them.
And so we're super excited
about that future because it
starts to question like, what
is an NFT?
Is it an NPC or is it a
digital being or like, well,
you know, so, yeah, that's
that's kind of where we get
really excited about.
This is wild.
So, yeah, yeah, Michael, go
for go for that.
I was just going to say, yeah,
I appreciate the context on
that.
And, you know, I think the
combination of of six, five,
five, one and then also, you
know, some of the AI things
that have been coming out
really paints that picture
really, really well.
The ability to like interact
with an NPC and just talk to
them as if they're, you know,
their own, you know, their
own agent basically with the
ability to communicate with
you and kind of operate, as
you mentioned, like the
concept of having your cool
cat go run around and just
do things for you, you know,
they'd be able to operate
totally autonomously and on
their own.
I think is just really
fascinating and extremely
exciting that something like
this is coming, coming to
fruition so fast.
I think, you know, a lot of
us not that long ago thought
this was like sci-fi and, and
as Benny mentioned, here we
are.
It's going to be within the
next few months, we'll
probably start to see some of
this stuff.
So pretty, pretty wild.
I'm so happy to hear that you
guys talking about such a
short timeline because when I
was thinking about populating
metaverses, I was like, hey,
we need to onboard more
people so that there is more
people playing.
But this is actually amazing.
If we can make the virtual
worlds more lively,
through non-playable, non-
play network, how do you
call it, network playable
characters, and they can
actually be us and be there
or they can be even someone
else, right?
We can equip them with
crypto wallets and we can
send them some ETH, maybe
some ApeCoin, whatever.
And if they are connected
with AI, maybe they can have
real time, real talk actually
with other characters.
I mean, it's, it's
fascinating.
Do you think that basically
Beast, if you want to, if you
want to use AI for my
character, you can, you can
tell it like, go into the
metaverse and lose money and
no one will figure out that
it's AI.
But, but do you guys think
that we will basically use
our NFTs or our characters?
Let's say you have, I don't
know, you have four Apes, so
maybe one Ape will be me and
three Apes will be NPCs.
Is that, do you think it's
that a thing of future?
Yes, I, I, I do really
believe in that.
Like, I think if you own
like, I don't know, a hundred,
a hundred NFTs, like a human
cannot, I mean, if you look
at your house, right, I, you
know, if you collect anything
in your house, like even, or
if you have a bike and a car
or whatever, like a human
cannot comprehend ownership
over like X amount of items,
right?
You could only like have a, like
maybe there are two, three
items in your house.
If it, if your house goes on
fire that you're like, you
know what?
I really got to take these.
I got to save these things.
Everything else.
I'm okay.
If it's like, you know, burns.
So I think it's the same with
digital objects too, right?
Like there's a limit to our
capacity to really like
comprehend how many objects
we can have love for or care
for, or like want to use as
persona.
So I think there's going to be
like maybe two to five NFTs
in your collection that are
like representations of your
personality that you care a
lot about, that you use as
your PFP.
And the way you would operate
those is that it's kind of
like a Gundam, right?
You would step inside of it
and then you would assume the
identity of those five or
three to five.
You would use it more
frequently, but everything else
like the 95 other NFTs that
you collect.
But I think that people are
going to send these, they're
going to convert them, program
them into NPCs and then send
them into, to do things like
some, the tasks could be to
make money.
Some of the tasks could just be
like, B, I want you to be a
meme lord on Twitter with AI and
just tweet, shit tweet all the
time.
And you kind of become like the
leader of all these NPCs.
You tell them what to do and
hopefully they don't turn on
you, but you know, that could
happen maybe further down the
line.
But yeah, I think that's what's
going to happen with all these
NFTs.
Yeah, this is really great
point and I haven't thought
about it much.
And it's true even when you
play Diablo, right?
Like I love Diablo 2 since I'm
I was a kid.
And even if you play
multiplayer, you basically had
NPCs there, you know, without
NPCs and it would be boring
anyway, even when it was
multiplayer.
So for the metaverse, this
can be great first step
because we need to onboard
more people, but the world
won't be empty, right?
So love that.
I love it also, man,
especially the part when it
goes on Twitter and then it
starts creating meme with the
wallet with it.
It's kind of wild.
Maybe Beast, before you
welcome Extreme Tom here, I
will do quick refresh.
Okay, let's do it.
Let's do it.
Let's use the magical sound
today, guys.
So I already see a few
questions in the comments.
If you have any more, just go
there, comment there and
retweet the space so more
people can vibe with us.
And yeah, Beast, go ahead.
Yeah, and let's welcome
Extreme Tom.
I almost didn't recognize you,
man.
Extreme Tom is one of the
founders of Cool Cats.
So it's awesome to see
another Cool Cat on the
stage just with the glasses
right now.
And yeah, welcome.
How are you doing, man?
Hi, everyone.
Yeah, I'm doing really well.
First, let me just say to the
team that's put the 6551
together, awesome job.
It's really, really cool.
You, yeah, it's really cool
what you've done.
I know it's like, you know,
there's some aspects of it
other people have like touched
upon in previous projects and
stuff, but like the idea of
giving tokens their own
wallets is fantastic because
you solve one of the biggest
problems for the space in
terms of onboarding, which is
full interoperability
throughout everything.
So any game that anyone spins
up and they allow, let's say,
a Bored Ape into the game, they
can collect the items from that
game into the inventory of the
Bored Ape.
And the Bored Ape can
essentially go from game to
game to game to game.
And unlocks everything, which
is amazing and also really
starts to kill confusion as
well.
So let's just imagine you've
got an avatar that you've
created.
Let's just say World of
Warcraft.
You've got your Orc.
He's got Cool Shield, Sword,
all this kind of stuff.
You list it on Open Seas.
So the cool thing here is you
are buying what you're seeing.
So you can see all the items
it's collected because they're
actually on the avatar.
And so it's not a confusing
time where you buy the avatar
and suddenly he's naked and he's
not wearing the sword and
sealed, which is what would
happen with a 721.
Like now you get what you see.
And so if people can start kind
of plugging this into things
like Starbucks, for example,
then suddenly you have onboarding
because all those Web 2 people
are building avatars.
They don't even need to know that
it's on Web 3 and everybody's
running around the metaverse.
You've got some people paying
in fiat, some people paying
in Bitcoin, Ethereum, like
whatever it is.
Like that's, yeah, that'd be
I love it.
So yeah, huge congrats on this.
It's amazing.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you, Tom.
Good to meet you as well.
Yeah.
And you guys.
Yes.
Good to meet you.
I was actually talking to Beast
a few hours before this space
saying back in like 2022,
I put together a kind of similar
thing where an NFT could own
other NFTs.
And it was very simple
in as much as just an avatar
that it didn't actually have
its own wallet.
So I love the fact that
you added that on
because it just, you know,
just cracks the whole thing
wide open, which is amazing.
And I don't really have
any questions for you
other than just praise.
And at the moment,
I'm just digging through
6551 at the moment
and just building my own
stuff with it, which I'll,
you know, I'll throw out
at some point when I'm ready.
Amazing, Tom.
And I remember, Tom,
back in the day in 21,
there were no minting platforms.
It was not that simple
and easy as it is today.
And he was always helpful.
You know, you DM him
and he'll help you
with smart contracts
and everything.
So it was amazing.
So thank you so much, Tom,
for joining us today.
And always going with
all the daily updates,
which were also amazing,
you know, like every single day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for that, guys.
I'm going to step down,
let someone else come up.
Plus, my phone is dying
and then just another round
of congratulations to the team.
Awesome job.
Awesome, awesome space,
by the way, as well.
I haven't been on your space
before, Beast,
and I'm grateful.
So yeah, loving it.
Thanks so much, man.
All right.
Cheers, everyone.
Have a good weekend.
Thank you, man.
Have a good one.
Yeah, I think
these use cases
will be really,
really interesting
with the metaverse,
you know.
Tom, go ahead.
I see your hand.
Oh, he said hi.
Okay, I got it.
I got it.
I also saw that
there's going to be like,
or there's already probably
the decentralized messaging,
so you basically can
DM different PFPs.
So you don't need to use Twitter
if you want to get in touch
with someone.
Could you also talk a bit
about how that works
and how can I DM,
for example,
Sarah here?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think this is a really good
kind of illustration
of the power that happens
when you give NFTs wallets
because there are so many people
building really cool protocols
and services
on top of Ethereum wallets, right?
Like, one of those applications
is messaging.
There's a bunch of companies
building wallet-to-wallet messaging.
And now that NFTs have wallets,
NFTs can just start using
those protocols,
start using those services.
There's a little bit of work
that some of the services
need to do.
Some of them are like,
kind of assume that you're working
with a private key-based wallet
or a MetaMask wallet.
But in general,
while as long as these services
start supporting
smart contract wallets,
which they all will very soon,
NFTs can just take advantage
of that right out of the gate.
And not because these platforms,
these messaging platforms,
are doing anything specific
with NFTs.
They don't even really need
to care about NFTs in general.
You can just start plugging in
NFT functionality.
You can just start using
these platforms
without the permission
of the creators
with your NFT
because your NFT
is a wallet
and is now part
of that ecosystem.
So that's just like
a really cool example
of how giving NFTs wallets
goes beyond just owning things
and doing things, right?
Like it goes beyond
some of these kind of use cases
we've talked about.
It means your NFT
can use anything
that uses wallets
just out of the box.
And so we're working
with a couple of companies
that are doing
wallet-to-wallet messaging
to kind of make sure
that ERC 6551
one is well supported.
There's a couple of companies
but that one of the ones
that we've chatted a lot with
is Tribes
who are doing
who build a great
wallet-to-wallet messaging product
and they're working
really hard
on some 6551 integration things.
And so this ability
to message,
to DM back and forth
between NFTs
is possible
because people are already
building that functionality
for wallets, right?
You can DM any wallets
right now, right?
Like that's already a thing.
But now NFTs
get that functionality
basically for free
because NFTs have wallets
and can participate
in that ecosystem too.
You know,
I will get back
to the metaverse
because this,
you know,
I never thought also
about this one.
Like imagine that
we are on the other side.
I see Nana
and Swicky
and other people here.
So we're going to be there.
Maybe we're not going to talk.
We will DM each other there.
And then we go
to some other metaverse,
you know.
So basically
if they build it
above the 6551,
the DMs should be
like everywhere the same.
so we can say
that even the DMs
are like interoperable, right?
Can this be also
one of the use cases?
I think so.
One more time.
No, I think, Jadin,
it's about like
because the messages
are on chain.
They basically go with you
anywhere you plug in, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Any client, right?
So I think that opens up
a conversation
where like should
should the
should the chat
live with the NFT?
You know,
like if
if Beast is
talking to Sarah,
you know,
and like
should that chat log
be basically
forever
on the blockchain
where if Beast
eventually sells
his cool cats,
that's whoever buys it
gets this whole chat
that he had
with Sarah, right?
So maybe a bad idea.
Let's forget about it.
Yeah.
So I think
between tribes,
XMTP,
MailChain,
and a few others,
they have different approaches.
Some of them are like,
these messages
should be fully encrypted
and if you sell it,
it shouldn't show
the chat logs.
Some people are like,
hey,
this adds to the value
of the NFT
because like
what if it was like
a really famous conversation
between the owner
of this NFT
with another
and when you bought it,
like it adds
to the value,
right?
So it really depends
but I think
this is still
super early,
you know,
again,
in a few months
we're going to start
to really see
like this NFT
to NFT chat
gain more traction
so we're really
excited about that.
I'm going to ask
like a real
non-technical person
but is there
a way
that we don't
pay for the messages?
I mean,
anytime I see,
I hear that
it's something
on the chain,
right?
Like the first thing
is about
like the gas fees
and stuff.
Is there some,
is there going to be
like layer twos
or outside?
Yeah,
for sure.
So most of these
wallet-to-wallet
messaging protocols
are gas-free,
you don't pay for gas
and they do that by,
you know,
the messages are
decentralized
but not necessarily
by putting them
on the blockchain
but by using
some other
decentralized networks.
So XMTP,
for example,
operates like a specific,
it's their own protocol,
it's off-chain
but it's fully
decentralized,
you fully own
your messages
and so there are
decentralized messaging
rails being built
that don't happen
on Ethereum,
right?
It's not Ethereum
transactions
that you pay for gas,
it's using some kind
of network
built on top
of Ethereum wallets
and so there'll be
lots of cases
where you can message
back and forth
and you're not
paying gas every time.
Guys,
is there a way
to actually decouple,
that's one of the questions
from Tiger,
it's fine,
to decouple the NFTs
from,
let's say,
my ape,
you know,
I bought,
I bought maybe the jacket
and I want to get rid
of the jacket,
is there a way
how to like decouple it
and send it to someone else
or maybe sell it?
Yeah,
100%,
it's your wallet,
right?
As long as you own the ape,
you own the wallet
and you can use the wallet
however you want to
it's self-sovereign
so you can send things
into it,
you can transfer things
out of it,
you know,
once the tooling
is a little bit more mature
you could even just
take your ape's wallet,
connect it right to OpenSea
and list the NFT
directly from your ape's wallet.
So because it's your wallet
you can do whatever you want
and it works just like
any other wallet,
you can transfer things in,
you can transfer things out,
you can call smart contracts,
you can call mint contracts,
you can buy NFTs,
like anything you can do
with a wallet,
any dApp that you want to use
will just work out of the box.
So also basically
if you want to sell Ape,
for example,
I want to say
sell Ape with 10,000 ApeCoin,
I can put the ApeCoin
into the like Ape wallet
and send it as one package,
right?
wow,
that's wild.
Michael,
do you have any questions?
You know,
we are more like
user questions
and you have the pro ones
so would you like
to add something?
think?
Sure.
Yeah,
I think
actually there was
a question raised
that's probably
a really good one
to address
by Nick's ETH
and basically
what I think
a lot of people
are concerned with,
especially in the technical
community,
is just around abuse
and that kind of
is related
to what we were talking about
like with,
you know,
chat messages
and,
you know,
spamming wallets
and,
you know,
and actually also
gas fees
but we'll save that
for a second follow-up.
But yeah,
so there's been
a discussion around,
you know,
the common practice
of the ability
to basically
airdrop spam
into wallets.
So now with
6551,
this is almost
maybe more compounded
and the problem
could get worse
because you could,
you know,
buy a wallet
that just has
even more spam in it.
So I was wondering
if you guys have
any thoughts
or ways to
maybe mitigate that
or maybe address
that concern.
Yeah,
that's a really good question.
So spam on chain
is always going to be
a problem
and that's just
because of the way
Ethereum works, right?
Ethereum is push,
not pull.
So people can send
things to your wallets
and there's not much
you can do about it.
You know,
if you're using
MetaMask or Rainbow,
like you literally
can't stop
NFTs from being
transferred into your wallets.
Even if you try
and do things,
if you're using
a smart contract wallet
and you try
to mitigate it,
people who want
to send you spam
will always be able
to send you spam.
There's no way around it
and that's just
because of the account model
that Ethereum uses
and so we don't think
that blocking
those actions
on chain
is the right approach
because you really
have to jump
through all kind
of hoops
and you add gas costs
by, you know,
trying to prevent this
and you just spend
a lot of time
trying to fight a problem
that you're never
really going to be able
to solve
because people
will always be able
to get around it
and still send you spam,
right?
Spammers are very persistent
and we see that
in pretty much
every area
on the internet.
Instead,
you know,
we really believe
this strongly
that the on-chain aspect
of token-bound accounts
should be very,
very minimal
when it comes
to enforcing any rules.
It should be your wallet.
If you want to receive
spam NFTs
for some reason,
you should be able to
and, you know,
we shouldn't be able
to stop you.
If you want to try
and prevent spam NFTs
on your wallet,
you should be able
to do that too
and no one should be able
to stop you.
We think that
the on-chain part of this
should be very minimal
in what it actually enforces.
But we think that
spam prevention
is largely a client-side problem,
right?
Like, if you go to OpenSea
and you look at your wallet page,
you generally don't see
very many spam NFTs.
And the reason for that
isn't because those NFTs
don't exist in your wallet.
They do.
It's because OpenSea,
in the OpenSea web client,
hides those spam NFTs.
You don't see them, right?
You don't even have
to worry about them.
Even though your NFT
owns them,
you're never really
going to see them
unless you go, like,
digging through the depths
of Etherscan.
And so that client-side filtering,
that kind of prevention
against spam
in the apps you use,
in the clients you use,
we think that's the place
to solve this problem
because spam NFTs
are always going to be a thing.
People are always going to
airdrop random stuff
into your wallets.
There's no real,
true on-chain solution
to this yet
that we found.
And so client-side filtering
is the best way to do it.
There's always going to be
a trade-off
between self-sovereignty
and protection,
like security.
And so we kind of
err on the self-sovereignty side,
right?
That's going to mean
people can send you
spam airdrops
and people can try
to scam you.
But we'll try and protect
against that
on the client side
rather than restricting
your sovereignty
by implementing it on-chain.
That's great.
Yep.
I think that's absolutely
the right approach.
And, you know,
to take it back also
to another thing you said,
which is this is your
totally self-sovereign wallet,
so you can really do
anything you want with it.
You know,
if you find that your
NFT's wallet
winds up filled up
with a bunch of spam,
you know,
worst case scenario,
you could always
transfer out
all the NFTs
that you do care about
and throw that wallet away.
You know,
let it go,
go die by itself
and spin up a new one,
right?
So that's also
an alternative.
Yep.
And another point on that
is like,
this is 6551,
we kind of talk a lot about
we give every NFT
a wallet.
And that's an attempt
to simplify this
because that's already
kind of crazy
and blows most people's minds,
right?
Whoa,
my NFT can own things
and do things,
got a wallet,
like people's minds
just explode.
But there's actually
a couple more layers
to this
that help out with that.
So first,
your NFT
can own
an unlimited
number of wallets,
right?
Just like you
as an Ethereum user
can spin up a rainbow
and a MetaMask
and a Gnosis Safe
and whatever kind of wallet
you want to use,
your NFT can do the same.
Your NFT can have
a million different wallets
that it uses.
And so
if one gets filled up
with spam,
you want to switch
to a new one,
it's super easy
to do that.
That's interesting.
Yeah,
that's amazing.
I'm having so many ideas
about use cases,
guys.
I'll go with
one non-technical
once again.
Imagine like,
let's say
Yuga uses
6551
and I have this mutant.
I go to other side
or a second trip,
I win the helmet.
So I have it
with a mutant
and maybe
I have the Gucci pendant.
So it's all
with my mutant.
If I want,
do you guys
think the future
is that
I will be able
to use it
with my PFP?
And if so,
again,
is that going to be
that I can just
use it
without paying
the gas
that I will be
just
and without
touching the
metadata?
Yeah,
so that's
a really good
question.
Right now,
just the way
that this space
exists right now
without 6551,
it's actually
kind of hard
to build mechanics
like the Yuga pendant.
You kind of have
this choice.
You either
implement it
fully off-chain,
where you just
it doesn't even
exist as an NFT,
it's just
on Yuga's
servers.
Then you can
implement it
as a very
boring NFT
that just
lives on-chain,
but there's
no custom
logic around
the NFT,
right?
So any
equipping or
any connection
or whatever
happens off-chain.
And I think
that's kind of
what Yuga is
doing here.
I haven't
looked super
deep into it.
But you could
also go with
one of these
other standards,
but then you
take the
limitations that
happen there.
You could
launch a
custom smart
contract like
Benny was
saying that a
lot of
projects do
with staking.
But it's
actually kind of
hard to build
these mechanics
like the Yuga
pendant.
And so you
see a lot
of projects
launching things
like that,
and it doesn't
really make sense.
It doesn't
really feel like
Web3, right?
It kind of
feels a little
off because
you would expect
that your ape
just owns this
pendant, and it
just works,
right?
Like it's just
if you're using
your wallet,
you're kind of
doing the things
you're used to,
and we're not
quite there yet.
And so the
reason for that
is it's been
hard to do that
with a 6551,
but with 6551,
those mechanics
get really easy
to build,
right?
Yuga just
airdrops the
pendant into
the token
bound account
of your ape
or of your
coda, and you
can send it
there as an
airdrop.
If you want
to do a mint,
you, the
coda owner,
can just mint
the pendant
from your
token bound
account.
You can call
the transaction
that mints
the pendant
using your
NFT's account,
and it'll
just go
straight there.
And Yuga
can do token
gating using
6551 because
it knows based
on the account
you're using
whether it's
tied to a
coda, and if
it's tied to
a coda, then
it should be
allowed us to
to mint.
And so a lot
of these things
that we're kind
of like hacking
around and
building really
weird like
Web 2.5
experiences or
kind of very
gas-intensive
things become
really simple.
The mental
model becomes
really easy,
gas becomes
really cheap,
it's basically
the same as
paying for any
other mint,
and it kind
of just happens
in this native
Web 3 way,
and that's the
power of using
wallets like
they were
intended to.
Got it,
that's awesome.
Nix, go for
that, and
yeah, let's
welcome Nix
on the stage.
GM, GM,
man.
I was slow
getting up
here, I
apologize, I
was a little
bit later
today, Saturday
I spent with
the family, and
I ran off and
put in my
AirPods as
quickly as I
could.
Thank you for
answering the
question about
spam, I had
tweeted that
yesterday, it
wasn't, first
of all, I love
6551, like I
think it's
just, I
started my
career in
social gaming
and building
large multi
player games and
things, and
it makes so
much sense from
a mechanic
standpoint, like
you're so
limited today to
doing something
that's at
least compatible
and standardized,
you're kind of
left to doing
some really
crazy logic on
your own, and
I think it's a
great idea, but
I do also tend
to think that
the more
complexity that's
introduced, you
also end up
with more edge
cases that you
hadn't thought
of, and the
spam one in
particular, like
I know, like
I would never
think that a
protocol or an
agreed upon
standard should
filter, because
that would be
just a huge
mess, it was
more like I
was trying to
spark builders
that are thinking
about using
this, or
thinking about
like how you
show these
NFTs to
people, because
if they're
showing, like
if OpenSea
made it in a
way where you
could see your
NFT and you
could see
everything that's
in it, then
it may be
misleading to new
people coming
in, and
that's less, I
think, on the
standard itself, and
more on
the implementation
and exposing
that to
users, especially
Nuance.
And the
second kind
of concern
that I had
was, I
don't even know
the right
technical term
for it, but
like rugging
value out of
something that
you list, it
could make
transacting more
difficult.
So it's an
example that we've
seen in ApeCoin,
so in ApeCoin
with ApeCoin
staking, you can
stake ApeCoin
with your
Ape, and
it's tied to
the Ape, right?
So if you
send your
Ape, you
send the
ApeCoin
that's staked
with it.
And what
we've seen
is people
staking ApeCoin
and then
building bots
to front-run
a purchase,
somebody buys
it thinking
they're going
to get the
ApeCoin, and
remove the
ApeCoin
before the
purchase goes
through.
I didn't
know if this
had some
protection where
let's say the
codependent idea
you just had.
If I had my
codependent and
it was attached
to my Coda
through 6551,
and I
list it on
OpenSea for
20E and
build a bot so
that as soon as
somebody hits
the mempool
trying to
purchase that,
I remove the
pendant from
the wallet
because I'm
still controlling
NFT, and
they end up
with the
parent NFT
with nothing
in the child
accounts.
I don't know
if that's
something that's
been thought
of or is
even a
concern.
Yeah, for
sure.
So this is
something we've
thought really
deeply about.
And this is
actually a
problem not
with 6551,
but with
stateful
NFTs in
general,
right?
Apes are
stateful because
you can stake
a point.
Crypto kicks
were stateful
because you
could equip
a vial and
unequip it.
I'm not sure
how Coda
implements it,
but I can
imagine in a
6551 world,
every NFT is
stateful,
right?
Like you put
your codependent
in the 6551
account, that
is the state
of your NFT.
That can
change over
time.
And the
problem is all
of the
marketplaces that
we have right
now are built
around the
central idea that
NFTs are
stateless.
As long
as the
NFT changes
hands, that's
good.
That's all
that needs to
happen during
a marketplace
sale.
That's the
only thing
that marketplaces
need to do
trustlessly.
And so
obviously a lot
of the really
innovative NFT
projects have
been pushing
the boundaries
by introducing
state to the
NFT, right?
Anytime you add
utility to an
NFT, you're
also adding
state.
And that means
that marketplaces
built around the
idea of NFTs just
being the NFT
that gets
transferred are
going to break
and are going
to be an
opportunity for
spam.
And right now
marketplaces just
don't support this
concept of stateful
NFTs very well or
at all.
And the reason for
that is every NFT
project implements
statefulness in its
own way, right?
For, you know,
apes, it's staking
ApeCoin.
For, you know,
CryptoKicks, it was
the vials.
And every NFT
project is building
their own version of
state for an NFT,
which means it's
really hard for
marketplaces to
support this, right?
Because they would
have to go out
and build really
specific protections
for every single
NFT project every
time somebody
launches a new
collection.
There's no real
standard way of
adding state to
an NFT.
And as a result,
marketplaces just
don't support this
as a concept.
Now, you know,
kudos to the
Seaport team in
particular, because
they've been doing
a lot of work
thinking around how
can we allow people
to support stateful
NFT sales.
And they've built a
lot of kind of the
underlying infrastructure
needed to support
this within Seaport.
And it hasn't quite
rolled its way out
all the way to
people using
OpenSea yet, but
it's on its way.
So we're working
really deeply with
the Seaport team on
this because we
think, you know,
with 6551, it
doesn't add any
new problems, right?
These problems
already exist.
It's just exposing
them and making it
every NFT's problem
and every
marketplace's problem,
not just some
NFTs in some
marketplaces.
And so by pushing
this idea of
stateful NFTs with
6551, we can
gather widespread
support in the
space with all the
marketplaces and
all the platforms.
around this concept
of NFTs having
states, and that's
exactly what we're
doing.
The reason we
launched this as a
proposal, one of the
reasons, was because
we think this is most
powerful when it
applies to every NFT
and when every
platform supports it,
when this concept of
your NFT having a
wallet is just part of
what it means to have
NFTs.
It's just something you
assume is true.
And if that happens,
we can build really,
really good protections
for stateful NFTs of
the marketplace layer
that can then bubble
down to other types
of stateful lists that
aren't 6551.
It kind of pushes the
whole space forward.
But in terms of 6551
specifically, there's a
couple of ways you can
get around this
problem.
The first, that's kind
of like the sledgehammer
approach.
It's not the cleanest.
You can lock your
token bound account.
So if you're using our
particular implementation
of 6551, it comes
with a lock mechanism.
You can say, hey, this
account is locked for
three days.
So if you go and list
your coda that's using
6551 on OpenSea, say,
hey, this listing is up
for three days.
I'm also going to lock
my account for three
days.
That means that for those
three days that it's
listed, you will no longer
be able to use your
token bound account.
It'll be locked.
You can't transfer
anything out of it.
And so you as a buyer
that's trying to prove
your trustworthiness, you
can do that when you
list your NFT and then
buyers know that, hey,
if I buy this NFT that
has everything locked, it
will be safe and I can
make that transaction.
It's not the cleanest.
It's time-based and so
it's kind of like a
sledgehammer for a
problem that could use
a scalpel, but it does
work.
So that's kind of the
implementation you can
use today.
That's one of the
mitigations you can use
today.
But the real long-term
version of this is
marketplace platforms
just support this
natively.
You just buy and sell
6551-enabled NFTs and
the marketplace knows
that and takes care of
all of that security
under the hood for you.
And so we're working
really closely with the
Seaport team to build
what's called a custom
zone.
This is kind of Seaport
speak for custom
validation logic on
every order that goes
through.
So when you place an
order on OpenSea or
any marketplace that
uses Seaport, a zone
can, after the
transaction has been
executed, say, hey,
did this go off without
a hitch?
Was there any scams
involved in this
transaction?
Did everything that was
supposed to change
hands actually change
hands in the way that
was expected?
Nothing was front run.
Nobody got scammed in
this transaction.
And so that's kind of
the purpose of zone.
Seaport is building this
concept of zone
specifically to help
stateful NFTs avoid
scams.
It's one of the use
cases for them, among
others.
And so we're working on
a custom zone that you'll
be able to use with
OpenSea, using Seaport
just out of the box.
You can say, hey, I want
to buy or I want to sell
this 6551-enabled NFT.
I want to make sure that
nothing leaves the wallet
between when I place this
order and when I get it.
And then it's the
responsibility of the
marketplace protocol to
enforce that validation.
Seaport is already really
well set up for that.
Other marketplaces we think
will follow suit.
And so because the
trustless transfer of
NFTs isn't really a
proposal problem, it
isn't really the
responsibility of the
NFT itself to enforce
that validation, it's the
responsibility of the
marketplace.
We really think that's
the long-term solution
is marketplaces can
support the standard.
They can build in really
deep support for 6551
because it's a proposal,
because it's got a lot
of backing.
And that will make it so
that not only for 6551-enabled
NFTs, but marketplaces
will start supporting
stateful NFTs in general
with 6551 as one way
to do it.
Oh, thank you so much.
Beautiful answer.
Well thought out, of
course.
I appreciate all the work
you guys are doing on
this.
It makes the future look
bright.
And thanks a lot.
Love it, man.
Yeah, happy to.
That was a great answer.
Thank you so much.
I would circle around a
bit.
I got two more people on
stage, so I'm going to
say hi to Sandman.
How are you doing, man?
Do you have any questions?
GM, GM.
GM, GM.
GM, GM, man.
Hey.
Yeah, so with the 6551,
that creates a wallet.
Is that available on places
like Manifold, or where
could we mint artworks like
that?
My next question is, does it
address any of the royalty
issues?
Both really good
questions.
So I can take the first
one.
Actually, I guess I can take
both here.
So yeah, you want to see
the wallet for any NFT.
One really easy way to do
that is you go to OpenSea,
you find the NFT you want
to see the wallet for.
It only works with ERC
20, or sorry, ERC 721
NFTs.
Doesn't work with 1155, so
some Manifold editions
might not work.
But any 721 NFT on OpenSea,
just go to OpenSea, change
the URL from OpenSea.io to
tokenbound.org, and it will
take you to the Token
Bound Explorer, which is
basically like Etherscan for
ERC 6551 accounts.
So it'll show you the
address for your NFT.
You'll be able to see the
contents inside of it.
If you own the wallet,
you'll be able to transfer
things in and out.
And so that's kind of like,
that's one really easy way
for you to see the wallet
address for your NFT today,
for any NFT you own or
anybody else owns.
You can go in and see
that.
So you can start playing
around with the NFT
wallets today, and you
can start doing that.
And now, as far as we
know, it's not integrated
with any minting
platforms yet, right?
So we do know that some
minting platforms are
working on support for
this, so this concept of
being able to mint an
NFT as your NFT, something
that's definitely coming
down the pipe.
I don't think it's
supported anywhere right
now.
And so I don't think
Manifold is, like, I
don't think you could go
to Manifold today and
say, hey, I want to mint
this open edition as my
NFT.
But sometime in the
future, that's totally
something that can be
built.
And like Benny was
saying, we're working
pretty closely with the
Manifold team on this, so
I would expect some cool
things to come soon.
What about the royalties?
Ah, yeah, big question.
So royalty enforcement is
really hard with NFTs.
In fact, it's pretty much
impossible to do on-chain
unless the marketplace
decides it's going to
enforce it on every
transaction.
But as you know, right, it's
kind of a race to the
bottom.
If a marketplace enforces
royalties, then some other
marketplace that doesn't
enforce royalties is going
to get all of the
liquidity because people
don't want to pay
royalties.
I think that's kind of the
core problem.
Most people don't
actually want to pay
royalties.
Most people just want to
buy and sell NFTs for the
lowest possible price to make
the maximum amount of money.
That's just kind of the
natural incentive layer.
And so royalty enforcement
is actually pretty difficult.
There are some things that
are trying to take
advantage of it.
I know Limit Break has
their like custom 721
contract with royalty
enforcement built in.
Personally, I don't think
royalty enforcement is the
best way to go.
I don't think forcing
people to do something
they don't want to do is
necessarily the best
approach because somebody
else is always going to
come in and let you do
the same thing without
paying royalties.
And there's no real way to
stop it.
You can wrap the NFTs, you
can do stuff like that.
And, you know, in some
ways, 6551,
enables you to get around
paying royalties just
because of the structure
of it.
You could put 20 really
valuable NFTs into the
6551 account of one NFT
and then transfer that one
NFT, pay royalties on it.
But really, you've
transferred all 20
without paying royalties.
So I think this just
illustrates that royalty
enforcement is really hard
and is probably not
something that will ever
be bulletproof and
able to implement.
Now, there's a couple of
ways that 6551 can
enable this.
So the first one is if
you want to build a
custom smart contract
wallet implementation for
your project that
enforces royalties when you
transfer items out of the
NFT's wallet, it's kind of
like a semi-custodial wallet
because you're enforcing that
anytime people take out one
of the NFTs that have been
minted to this wallet, they
have to pay the royalty to
remove it.
That's one way.
Like, you could build this
logic really deeply into
the NFT wallet
implementation.
The downside is the same as
any other platform, right?
Somebody else is going to
build another implementation
that anybody can use
because it's self-sovereign
and whatever.
Anybody can use that wallet
implementation that doesn't
enforce royalties, which
means it's going to be
really hard to gather
support for your
implementation that does
support royalties.
Instead, I really think the
future of royalties on
chain are going to be less
about royalty enforcement
and more about royalty
incentivizations.
How do we incentivize
people to pay royalties
by choice rather than
being forced to do it
against their will?
And I think part of that
is people wanting to
support artists and I
think that's got some
power.
But I also think there's
there needs to be some
financial incentives there
as well.
You know, you can imagine
an NFT collection where
or an NFT marketplace
potentially where every time
you trade an NFT, you
earn ERC-20 tokens
proportional to how much
royalties you paid.
So if you actually pay the
full royalty amount, you
earn more tokens by doing
that.
And those tokens could even
be transferred to the
account of the NFT.
So when you when you pay
royalties on that NFT
transaction, the NFT
itself becomes more
valuable and has more
tokens.
And that's a very
rudimentary model.
But I think the future of
royalties on chain is not
forcing people to pay
royalties against their will
because people will always
try and find ways about
it, ways around it.
The future is how do we
incentivize people to
actually want to pay
royalties?
How do we make it so that
paying royalties is actually
in your best interest as an
NFT buyer and seller?
What about EIP?
What is it?
4910.
That enforces the on-chain
royalties.
How does that integrate?
So I'm not familiar with that
particular EIP.
I'll definitely look into it
after this.
But the problem with
royalties is that NFTs are
bearer assets, right?
If you own the NFT, you own
the NFT.
Nobody can really take it
away from you.
Nobody can really force you to
do things against your will
unless you mess with the
NFT contract.
That's kind of what the
limit break contract does.
I would imagine it's a
similar approach that this
EIP is taking, but I don't
know because I haven't read
The only way to enforce
royalties on an NFT is to
remove the concept of total
self-custody of the NFT.
Because if somebody else can
force you to pay royalties on
the NFT, that means you don't
really own it, right?
You don't really have full
permission to transfer it
around.
So the trade-off by
introducing royalty
enforcement at the NFT level
is you reduce the self-
sovereignty of the NFT.
You reduce that ability for it
to be something you truly own.
And for some projects that
might make sense, for some
collections that might make
sense, but I don't think that
will ever become the norm on
chain because I think the
power of self-custodial
bearer assets, things that
you truly own, you can truly
send wherever you want, do
whatever you want with, is
much more powerful.
And I think that's where the
space is going to be going.
Amazing.
Sandman, are you happy with
the answer?
Yeah.
You know, it's like it's just
that royalty.
I pinned the thing up top, a
thread that I wrote a while
back about royalties and when
the blur farming started and
all that.
And there's mention of a lot
of historic context of
royalties and stuff.
So if anybody wants to check it
out, you know, it's just, you
know, for artists, I think
individual artists and
especially physical works and
other, you know, digital works
works that that individual
artists are creating, I think
royalties are a huge thing to
support their career and and
also just, you know, the long
term appreciation of an artwork.
I think the key to the royalties
debate is that if the token is
sold for more than it was
purchased, then royalties get
enacted and if on the
additional value.
So if it sold for one ETH
originally and sells for 10 ETH
later on, then you pay royalties
on nine ETH as opposed to 10 ETH.
And I think that that really like
divides the traders from the
collectors and everything.
And the traders want to flip and
not pay royalties.
And the collectors, you know,
would hopefully respect the
artist and and, you know, give
them a little taste of the
profits that they've made.
So and I don't know, there's
there's all kinds of other
things being done in the world
of royalties like Art Basel is
launching a platform.
They've built their own chain
and they have royalties built
in for not only the artist,
but the gallerists who are
representing these artists in the
traditional world of art.
And, you know, I think it's a matter
of time before we see this sort of
split between, you know, art with
royalties and art that's just
traded over the counter as a
collection or whatever it may be.
But, you know, time will tell.
So, yeah, great point, Sandman.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
I see Michael's hand before I go to
him, I would like to ask Benny.
Benny, do you want to add anything
or, you know, share something that
we talk about?
No, and Jay didn't pretty much
cover most of it.
Yeah, we share a similar
perspective on the royalty side.
And, you know, I think it's like a
really difficult problem, right?
Like we want to support.
We're here for the artists and the
creators and, you know, the
creatives.
You know, I think it's a matter of
just like changing the formula or
the equation in our heads, right?
Because like if we look at it, you
look at Craigslist, you look at
Kijiji, you look at Facebook
Marketplace, like they don't really
take, they don't charge, right?
Like that's what's going to, that's
what's already happening or what's
going to happen, right?
Is that it becomes just more like a
peer-to-peer service and people are
using it.
And so I think the thing that I would
encourage, which Jay didn't throw an
idea out there, is like how do we like
rethink it, you know?
Like maybe it's not the first phase of
this was like royalty enforcement or on
the marketplaces.
But if that's going to zero, then, you
know, what else can we do that using
new primitives to invent new ways to,
you know, encourage creators and
artists.
So definitely a lot of, it's a huge
conversation.
We're probably going to be here for
hours talking about it.
But yeah, it's really interesting.
100%, yeah.
Micah, go ahead.
Yeah, love the hard questions.
I think royalties is definitely one of
the harder debates.
But Sandman, I love the idea of the
royalties only if it sells above mint
price.
I've actually never heard that before.
So that's a really interesting concept.
I have something to say, but actually I
realized if I jump into it, we're going
to go down probably another rabbit hole.
So maybe we want to give Sasha a chance
to ask this question before I dive into
If I can just respond to that real
quick.
Well, that concept is from the Artist
Reserve Rights Art Transfer contract
that was created in partnership with
Robert Rauschenberg in the early 70s.
It's all in the thread that I posted.
But it's, you know, like he famously
sold a piece for, you know, I don't
know, eight grand or something.
And his collector sold it later for
$90,000.
And he's like, what the fuck?
You know, you're making, I'm working
my ass off and you're making all the
money.
So it was just, and he punched his
collector.
It's a famous story.
But that contract in it has 15% royalty
on the added value above sale.
So, you know, I think we can find a
happy medium, but, but, you know, the
10th, this sort of standard bear for
artists has been like 10%, but it's on
the total price.
And then it, you know, if you sell it
for 1.1 ETH, you're losing money with
the platform fee, right?
So it's like, I'd really love to see the
devs come up with something that fixes
this issue.
Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred
percent.
That's going to be another interesting
discussion about royalties, because
yeah, I feel, I feel you guys, you
know, as an artist and we, we always
try to support, but you know, there
are, there's blur and other marketplaces,
you know, that have different, like
I'm not saying bad, but different
focus.
So yeah, it's not, not simple.
Sasha, welcome here.
How are you doing, man?
Yo, GMG, I'm doing good.
Amazing.
Well, it's past midnight here, but I'm
from Thailand, right?
Yeah.
Listen, I, I have a question.
Okay.
I want you to stick with me for a
second, because the first thing I
thought about when you were talking
about this new amazing standard and
having NFT with all the items in a
game, right?
For some reason, what popped into my
head is like, oh, you can put a child
in there.
Like, what if you're like a simulator
or like SimSims or something anyway?
And so you, it's like a Tamagotchi,
right?
Like you could have a baby inside your
NFT that grows up.
But then I was thinking, well, how did
the baby get there?
Right.
So you obviously have to have sex, but
like, how do you have sex with another
NFT?
It needs to be consensual.
So then I was thinking, okay, how can
you have like consent on chain, like
between two different NFTs?
And so I'm getting close to my
question.
So what it made me think about is like,
okay, now that we have all these NFTs
running around, okay, they're going to
interact with each other in the
metaverse and with other NFTs.
Right.
And let's say I, you know, I mean, it
could be sex, but let's say something
more PG where I just meet somebody and I
want to make a, my NFT wants to make a
deal with another NFT to buy an item in
the game or something.
Right.
Maybe.
So the main question is how do we do this
on chain where you don't need a third
party, you don't need a different contract
per se.
Maybe they both talk to the same
contract, but like somehow it's a
consensual transaction.
Right.
Where, where they shake hands.
In particular, like, is there a way to do
this handshake maybe through the chat
system that, you know, now that you can
send messages to, they can send messages
to each other.
Could you set some kind of coded message?
Is there like a standard that can be
developed?
Something like that where there is
basically a handshake can happen on
chain without having to transfer both
NFTs to like a third party wallet.
Right.
Like we do with the trading websites or
without having necessarily go through some
kind of game contract.
I think you know what I'm talking about.
So what do you think about that?
No comment.
Hey, you want to take this one?
Is the master of NFTs having
consensual relations on chain?
Yeah, it's possible.
Yeah, I think it'll be.
I mean, look, breeding has been part of
been the beginning of all of this.
You know, CryptoKitties had consensual
relationships and it was very progressive.
And that's why there's two million of them
now.
So I think like, you know, one could
explore a new form of breeding amongst
other other non CryptoKitties NFTs.
So we encourage you to work on the project.
You should join the working group.
And there's a lot of developers and people
who would probably be into it.
So, yeah, it's a great idea.
Okay, if I may to clarify.
First, thank you.
I'm not so much here to present an idea
as I'm asking because like with CryptoKitties,
you had the contract, right?
Whatever was the overarching contract,
the hosting, the game contract,
whatever you want to call it,
that would like, you know,
basically create the resulting other kitty.
Whereas here, I'm wondering, like,
if you have the CryptoKitties one NFT
and a second CryptoKitties NFT
and they only interact with each other
and then something happens, right?
Like you don't need this other trustful
party to do anything.
And, you know, because now that because
you can send messages and anybody,
you know, you can message from one wallet
to another.
I was thinking, okay,
this NFT can message the other NFT
and then it doesn't have to be English per se.
It could be obviously in anything, right?
So you can code it.
You can have certain formats,
just like any programming language.
So just wondering if you could see
this NFT to NFT kind of peer-to-peer interaction
happening.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
And I think you're actually touching
on one of the really interesting,
pretty underexplored aspects of 6.5.1.
Right now, we're all really used to
interacting with central smart contracts.
Your NFT smart contract is a central one.
Everybody interacts with the same contract.
Uniswap is a central contract.
Everyone interacts with the same Uniswap contract.
But, you know,
with NFTs having their own smart contracts,
in this case,
smart contract accounts that can be controlled,
there are really interesting things
that could be done with custom
6.5.5.1 implementations
that enable totally peer-to-peer interactions.
No central contract, right?
Like right now,
you go to OpenSea,
you make a peer-to-peer swap.
It is peer-to-peer
because you're selling it directly
to the other person.
But it goes through Uniswap's
single contract.
It's not,
like it still goes through
one single choke point.
And there's a potential here
where it could be directly
from NFT to NFT.
You could have,
you know,
a smart contract wallet implementation
that has support
for NFT swapping built in.
And what that would mean is
you can sell NFTs
truly peer-to-peer.
Each smart contract wallet
would enforce that,
like escrow has been paid
and the NFT has been transferred
before calling the sale complete.
And, you know,
you can do this,
if you can do it with swaps,
you can do it with any kind of
wallet-to-wallet interaction.
If, you know,
if these two wallet implementations
trust each other, right,
if they know about each other
and they are, you know,
confident that the other
is not going to love them,
then that can happen
in a totally peer-to-peer way,
not through, like,
a central contract.
And so I think for,
you know,
this has implications for breeding,
you know,
any other kind of, like,
peer-to-peer interactions you have,
but also, like,
totally peer-to-peer,
totally, like,
smart contract that I own
to smart contract
that you own interactions,
which is a paradigm
that I think is super underexplored
but has a ton of value.
And then you mentioned
if they trust each other,
so to continue with the theme,
how do they use protection?
This is a good question.
This is actually something
that we've,
I've explored a little bit
because I think this, like,
peer-to-peer model for NFT
or for smart contracts
is really cool.
You can trust
a smart contract implementation
based on its bytecode, right?
If the bytecode is,
matches a trusted implementation,
you can trust it.
And there's actually
some really good tools
in Ethereum to do this.
There's an opcode
called extcode hash
which basically says,
does this contract
match a certain
trusted implementation?
And that's a really easy,
really cheap check
that you can make.
And so you can have
a smart contract
that says,
okay, I'll do,
like, I'll trust
other smart contracts
only if they have
the same source code
as I do.
Now, if they have
the same source code
as I do,
we can trust each other.
We can do that
peer-to-peer interaction.
And, you know,
similarly with
token-bound accounts,
token-bound accounts
take that a bit
of a step further
because you can trust
a token-bound account
that's tied to an NFT
solely based on
its address
because the address
is a function
of the token data,
an implementation address,
and some extra metadata
that doesn't, you know,
affect the trusted nature of it.
So just based on
the address
of another smart contract
calling into
your smart contract,
you can know
just based on the address
without doing any calls
to any third-party contracts
whether that's
a trusted account.
And it's very similar
to the way that,
you know,
stuff like PXD CodeHash
works,
but it uses addresses.
And so there are,
you know,
authentication mechanisms,
ways that you can trust
other NFT wallets
just based on the address
of the NFT wallet,
which is a really cool mechanism
for, like,
direct peer-to-peer interactions.
Amazing, thank you.
Guys, I would like
to just ask
Benny and Jaden,
are you still good
with time?
Because we're usually
sending invites
for 90 minutes,
which we are, like,
a little over.
So just let me know.
I see two more hands.
So let me know
if you're still okay
with time
or if we send you
the questions
into some of your
PFP's wallet.
Well, I mean,
I got, like,
10-ish minutes,
so we could probably
blast through
SSP and Micah's question.
And I have one more question
for the end,
and that's onboarding.
So I would like
to keep that in mind
because I think
we are really curious
about how this can help
to onboard more people
and what you think about it.
So let's jump
and SSP
and then I see also Micah.
So SSP, go ahead.
Welcome here.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
I think Micah's hand
was up first
if you'd like to let
Micah go first.
Micah, do you want
to go first?
It depends on your question,
SSP.
It's quick.
Go for it.
It's like a meme.
It's like a meme
pointing the fingers.
Like, he's go first.
You know, I'll go first
then because mine
is not necessarily a question.
It's just a thank you
to both Benny and Jayden
for this amazing 6551
coming in through
the Seed Club mentorship.
I thought it was fantastic.
And the only thing
I wanted to point out,
if you didn't,
if the audience
didn't pick up on this,
Sasha really needs
a girlfriend.
And he's actually
looking for one.
So if you have any friends
that you want to set him up
on a blind date with
in Thailand,
he is looking.
And one last thing,
Grateful and Beast,
don't forget,
ApeCoin Dow elections
are coming around the corner.
And we should talk
about that next time.
Thanks, Benny and Jayden.
Amazing.
Thank you so much,
SSP, for sharing.
And tomorrow,
there's got to be
another tech demo
with Improbable Sasha.
So you can go there
and try,
yeah,
if the ERC
is implemented there.
I'm not sure.
Micah, go ahead.
Yeah, thanks,
SSP.
So the thing
I wanted to talk about
actually touches on
a lot of the stuff
that we've just been
chatting about,
which,
you know,
we brought up this idea
well,
now consensual NFT sex,
which is not exactly
where I expected
the conversation to go,
but it's a specific
use case
for 6551.
And,
you know,
Sandman also brought up
the idea of,
like,
accustomed royalties.
There's a bunch of
different things going on.
And I think we've sort of
glossed over the fact
that,
you know,
one of the key things
for 6551
that is extremely elegant
is its implementation
in respect to how
dynamic and flexible it is.
So to give kind of,
like,
another concrete example
that will actually,
the reason I've been
holding off is because
it leads into
a really important
top of mind topic,
I think,
for all of us.
But to give a concrete
example is,
you know,
Benny graciously mentioned
a product we're launching
earlier called ApePage,
which will be the first
example of a 6551
implementation for
the Bored Ape ecosystem.
And one of the core
things that we
need to solve for
that's really top of mind
for the entire community
is this,
is really security.
most of us have
a cold wallet.
We keep our apes
in a cold wallet
and,
you know,
we try as much as
possible to never
interact with
applications or anything
with that wallet,
obviously,
unless it's Yugo
launching it,
then we're,
then we're all
comfortable.
But,
the difficulty of that
is with 6551,
in order to
interact with
our wallets,
you would actually
have to use
the same
key that is
holding on to
your Ape,
right?
in order to transfer
assets and do things
like that,
you'd have to
probably
use your private key
with your cold wallet
to transfer and move
NFTs around.
there's two solutions
to this.
One of them
has to do with
permissions.
you can basically
grant anyone
permissions to
use your wallet
on your behalf.
And so,
that's,
you know,
helps with the
flexibility of the
contract
or kind of
comes back to
that.
That was a
really smart
thing that they
just included
in the standard
knowing that
that would be
something important.
But the second
is that
you can actually
launch your own
versions of these
wallets.
I can extend it,
add features,
you know,
do whatever I want
to do and then
launch a version
of that.
for our product,
one of the things
that we've done
is we've introduced
delegate.cash
and warm.xyz
as a way to
be able to
manage your
Bored Ape's
inventory
on behalf
of your Bored Ape
using a
warm wallet.
Which I think
is going to
end up being
an extremely
critical piece
of functionality
for 6551.
not necessarily
a question,
but just
another,
you know,
nod to
Benny and
Jaden's,
you know,
elegant solution
of 6551
and obviously,
you know,
the rest of the
team and
everyone who's
been working
on it for so
long.
Love that,
Micah.
Thank you so
much for sharing,
guys.
And if you
want to check
more,
just click on
Micah's profile
and he has
all the
stuff in
his bio,
so you
can check
it out.
The same
with Benny
and Jaden.
If you
want to
learn more,
they have
great pinned
tweets and
they also
have on
their profiles
ERC6551
account,
so there
you can
also learn
more.
And I
think it's
really valuable
stuff to
read it,
so amazing,
guys.
And Benny
and Jaden,
the last
question,
what is the
future and
how will we
onboard like
one or two
billion more
people into
Web3?
What do
you think
Beast?
How do
you like
that?
Yeah,
I love
When you
said one
or two,
I was
afraid you
were going
to say
million,
but when
you said
billion,
I was
like,
let's
Beast was
like,
we need
to ask
about the
future,
so here
we go.
Yeah,
I'll kick
it off first.
I think the
question is
about onboarding
people to
the blockchain.
Where I
would kind
of spin
it is,
is it
humans or
is it
NPCs?
Because that
changes the
actual question,
right?
I think it's
going to be
this combination
of humans
and NPCs
that will be
coming online
to the blockchain
and performing
actions.
So that would
be kind of
like my
high-level
answer and
the more
realistic answer.
I've had this
huge tweet
thread that I
followed up on
yesterday and
essentially I
think the
onboarding flow
is about to
dramatically
change.
But if
something like
ERC4237 or
account
abstraction for
the people who
are more
technical in
this room,
essentially all
the token
bound accounts
are 4337
compatible.
So that's why
they don't have
public-private
key pairs.
It is a smart
contract wallet.
So there is
an onboarding
flow that we
are experimenting
with that will
be extremely
important for
the next wave
of onboarding.
Basically how
it will work is
you would use
something like
Magic Link or
Lit Protocol or
any kind of
wallets as a
service that
provisions a
wallet through
your Gmail or
email.
But once it
gives you that
wallet, we all
know it's not
extremely secure.
you may not
want to put a
lot of stuff
in it.
The difference
is that then
it drops you
like an NFT
that holds all
the other things
you're about to
collect.
So that NFT
because it has
its own token
bound account,
it acts as
like an escape
hatch.
So you can
basically leave
these centralized
wallets in a
very, very easy
way.
And with this
kind of
combination, I
think it will
bring on a
lot more people
into the space.
Bullish.
Thank you so
much for sharing
that.
That's amazing.
I love that.
Jaden, what is
your take on
this?
Yeah, I think
onboarding is
going to be a
huge thing.
I think the
key to onboarding
is making
things less
scary.
So logging
in and seeing
a giant wallet
address hex
string as the
first thing you
see or seeing
all sorts of
crazy acronyms
like NFTs,
it just scares
a lot of
people.
And I think
part of that
will be solved
just by
time, right?
The more
people are
exposed to
these ideas,
the more
people will
be comfortable
with them.
Although part
of it is also
just making
it friendly,
right?
How do you
make the
concept of
NFTs and
now the
concept of
NFTs
owning things?
How do you
make that
really simple
and easy to
grok and
easy to
understand?
And so I
think as
NFTs start to
gain more
adoption,
especially in
some of
these kind
of stealth
modes,
there are
starting to
be a lot
of apps
where you're
using NFTs,
but you don't
know they're
NFTs.
It just
says collectibles
or it might
even not say
that.
It might just
be something
hidden behind
the scenes.
And we
think that
6551 can
be a part
of helping
those NFTs
that are
starting to
become mainstream,
starting to
become really
simple and
easy and not
scary to new
users, to
have even
more power.
And so I
think as
NFTs become
something that
is more
common and
more used,
we think 6551
will allow
these NFTs to
be even more
useful than
they already
are.
There's so
many things.
If you just
think of
NFTs as
digital
representations
of things
in the real
world, there
are so many
things right
now you just
can't represent
without some
concept of
ownership,
without some
concept of
this thing
owns this
thing, or
this thing
does this
thing.
And by
bringing that
tool to
NFTs, you
open up so
many use
cases for
NFTs to
mirror real
world assets
in a way
that makes
it really
easy for
new users
to just fit
their mental
model, for
it to be
less about
oh, this
thing is
like a
digital
trading
card, and
oh, this
thing is
like a
multi-tool,
this thing
is like
my bank
card, or
whatever it
There are
other metaphors
that can help
onboard users
that might be a
little bit more
approachable, like
the concept of a
digital trading
card might not
be the best
concept to
understand NFTs.
6551 can help
enable some of
those other
mental models.
that's
incredible, and
I really love
that you are
really passionate
guys about it,
and I believe we
could be talking
about this for
hours and hours
and all the
use cases.
It's really
amazing to see
it, you know,
because sometimes
you get into the
drama on Twitter,
but people are
building stuff,
and from my
point of
perspective, like
the space is
constantly getting
better, evolving,
you know, and
we'll be ready to
onboard millions
and billions of
people, so
big shout-out to
you guys for
doing this, it's
incredible.
Do you want to
share anything or
say something before
we wrap it up?
I don't know, maybe
we forget to
mention something.
Yeah, I think the
only things to
share would be how
you can get
involved, and so
if you want to
play around with
this, if you want
to start, like,
experiencing what
it's like to use
an NFT that owns
other NFTs, there's
two ways you can
do that.
One, the Sapiens
project we just
launched, if you
want to see what
it's like for an
NFT project to
natively, like,
support, ERC
6551, to have
this concept of
NFTs owning things
built right into
the NFT, and, like,
you can see all the
NFTs your NFT owns
on OpenSea and
things like that, you
can play around with
Sapiens, that's a
project we just
launched.
If you want to
use this with your
own NFTs, because
it's, like, it
works with every
NFT, it's totally
non-custodial, you
can go and start
using the wallet for
your NFT today, and
go to, like I
said, go to
OpenSea for any
ERC721 NFT, change
the URL to
tokenbound.org, and
you can start
playing around with
this.
Now, keep in mind,
it is in beta, it's
still super early, so
there's probably going
to be bugs, probably
going to be things
that happen, we're
pretty confident in
it, but, like, for
the time being, while
it's in beta, before
the proposal finally
makes its way to
being finalized, be a
little careful with
it, but you can start
playing around with
it today on main
net with your real
NFTs.
And so, Sapiens, your
NFTs, play around with
it, take a look at
The other thing I
would say is if you
want to get involved
in this proposal being
passed, this proposal
being something that
does become a
standard that everybody
can use, there's
two paths towards
doing that.
One, which I'm
already seeing a ton
of folks talking
about, like, if you
go on Twitter right
now, ERC6551 is
trending, which is
pretty cool, I think,
because you guys are
doing some great stuff
in this space, but
just talking about it,
right, if you think
there's something
exciting here, if you
think there's
something that you
want to build on top
of this, or if you
just think this is an
interesting concept,
help more people
learn about it, help
people understand it.
There's, you know,
part of the EIP
process that's
actually, you know,
written out in EIP
number one, which is
kind of how EIPs
work, is that EIPs
have champions, and
the way that EIPs
pass is when there's
community consensus
that an idea is
worth becoming a
standard, and so
part of that process
is people just
talking about it and
being vocal about
it, so that's one
way you can help.
Another way you can
help, if you're a
builder, if you're a
developer, if you're
someone who's
technical, building
cool things on top
of 6551 is for
sure the easiest way
to do it.
If you think there's
something cool you
can do with this new
primitive of NFTs
owning things or
NFTs doing things, go
out and build it.
We would love to
see it.
We would love to
support you.
We would love to
provide as much
tooling and support
as we can around
that, but go out
and just build the
cool thing that you
think should exist in
the world.
And if you have
comments, feedback on
how the standard
could be improved or
how the tooling
around it could be
improved, we would
love that as well.
Part of the EIP
process, part of the
reason that EIPs
work so well, is
it's a community
rallying point around
a common idea.
The goal is to get
everybody who cares
about this into one
place to refine it to
its best possible
form.
And so the best
way you can do
that, there's a
forum called
ETH Magicians.
If you're a
technical person, if
you're not a
technical person, this
probably isn't the
right place for it.
But if you're a
technical person, if
you're a developer
who cares about
standardization in
the Ethereum
ecosystem, a
comment on the
ETH Magicians
forum, either
talking about some
of the interesting
use cases or
specifically giving
some feedback and
some ways that you
think this can be
used would be super
helpful.
So that's all the
ways you can get
involved in this and
we'd love to see all
the crazy things you're
going to build.
Incredible.
Thank you so much
for sharing.
Benny, do you want
to also share
something or add
anything?
I just wanted to
say, hey, Micah,
grateful, Beast,
thanks for having us
on the show.
This was super
awesome and it's
always a pleasure to
be here and meet
everyone, Tom and
everybody who are on
the stage.
So, yeah, there's a
lot of work to do.
We're excited about
this new future and
let's kind of stay in
tune and there's going
to be a lot more
things coming down the
pipes.
So, thank you.
100% guys.
And me and Beast, we
actually minted
Sapiens, you know, we
tried it, we saw it on
OpenSea, you know, how
it works.
It's always the best,
you know, hands on, try
things out and
experience it.
So, big shout out to
you guys.
Also, is that cool if
people want to, you
know, connect with you
to DM you or is that
forum that you mentioned
before the best way?
Yeah, DMs are always
welcome.
Feel free to shoot a
Twitter DM, that's
probably the best way to
do it.
If you're technical, if
you're a developer and
want to get involved in
this at more of a, like,
an actual contribution
level, if you're building
cool things on it, we do
have a Telegram working
group.
It's very dev-focused,
very kind of focused on
people who are actually
building.
So, if you want to join
that, just DM Benny or I,
we can get you access.
And, again, the ETH
Magicians forum is largely
for, like, Ethereum
proposal things.
So, if you want to
contribute to the EIP
process, if you want to
talk about, like,
technical things about
improving the structure of
the EIP, the forum is
the place to go for that.
If it's just kind of,
like, ideas and, like,
very high-level stuff, the
forum might not be the
best place for that.
Best place for that is
Twitter, just talking about
the public.
Love that.
Yeah, I'm really excited
if you utilize this ERC.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Please go ahead.
I see you unmuted.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you, Benny.
Thank you, Jaden, for joining
It was absolutely amazing.
Thank you for sharing all
the insights.
I love that we brainstorm
all the, also, like, the
use cases.
I know that we can do, like,
another 20, 30, 50 use
cases because there is so
much.
But it was absolutely
amazing.
So, big thanks and thank you
for building and pushing the
space forward from the
development side.
Thank you so much.
We'll see you guys soon.
Thank you so much, guys.
It was an absolute
pleasure.
What a great episode.
The next episode will be,
guys, from Portugal.
We are going to NFC Lisbon
on Tuesday.
We're going to have NFC
Lisbon warm-up.
So, if you're going to
Lisbon, DM us.
We can meet there.
We're also bringing the
grateful chocolate there and
stickers and everything so we
can give it to you.
And, yeah, this is for
everyone who was listening.
for our guests and for
people on stage.
Thank you so much.
Absolute legends, guys.
Absolute legends.
Michael, Nick, Sasha,
SSP, Sandman, everyone
in the audience, you're
always here.
You're legends.
Thank you so much.
And, guys, we always say
this, like, the alpha of this
space is the people here
because, like, the
connections and people are
incredible.
So, we really, really love
you.
And, you know, we are so
proud and grateful that you
are pushing this space
forward and that's what we
need, right?
We have to build this.
So, big shout out to
everyone.
And I know you still have,
like, a morning in America.
So, you need to wake up and
you need to do some
workouts and you need to do,
I don't know, whatever.
So, this song is for you,
guys.
Let's fucking go.
Have a great Saturday,
guys.
Let's fucking go.
Let's fucking go.
Much love, guys.
Push-ups, baby.
Baron, come on.
Do the push-ups.
Energy.
Energy.
Greg, your chain is too
heavy for push-ups.
And let's go
hundreds.
Rising up
Back on the street
Did my time
Took my chances
Went the distance
Now I'm back on my feet
Just a man
And you're able
To survive
So many times
It happens too fast
You change your passion
For glory
Don't lose your grip
On the dreams
Of the past
You must fight
Just to keep
Them alive
Get to deep
Eye of the tiger
It's the thrill
Of the fight
Let's go, everybody.
What do you want to ask me?
I see Sasha looking
for his girlfriend right now
Doing the push-ups.
Oh, my God.
I was doing push-ups, actually.
Let's go!
Have a great weekend, guys.
What a great space today.
I'm so pumped.
Oh, my God.
Such a great space.
Love that.
Love you guys.
See you in here on Tuesday
If you're going to be
In Lisbon.
It's going to be amazing.
Yeah, we do a lot of stories
And stuff, so
Have fun.
Beast, go ahead.
Yeah, see you soon, guys.
Next show is going to be
From the Lisbon.
Let's fucking go.
Let's go!
Grateful Show 155
Let's fucking go!
