Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Grateful Show #203: AIP-326: ApeCoin Payments & Rewards Platform
Recorded: Sept. 28, 2023 Duration: 2:03:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
You're about to fill the chronicles of a bionicle, lyric, lyrically splittin'
Dismissin', I'm on a mission of just hittin'
I was fittin' and kitten hittin' with mittens, I'm missin'
Wishin' me lipsin' I glissin' like sun and water
I'm fishin', bustin' me when it's work
Serve words with nerve embedded, I said it
Word damn, you nerd man, you heard
Comin' from the town of Illinois and now he's a full of fillies and rowdy
Suckers gazillion salad and foundin' alleys and rowdy
Really, so here we go, now holla if you hear me though
Come and feel me, flow
Never nixin' with trickin' brothers, bitchin' over fixers
That ain't pittin' to be hittin' for nothing
Spittin' fingers, bitten and gettin' written on
You're like a batter, bad platter, boy, you pissin' me off
Boy, you ain't even started, so what, so long
See you fly, bye, bye, bye, bye
How else could I say it when you play it, try boom
Bye, bye, bye, bye
Here we go now, holla if you hear me though
Come and feel me though
Here we go now, holla if you hear me though
Come and feel me though
The flow broke, poetical, with skills only a batter
No better, no wins the wetter, float it's on point
Like that's almost manhandlin' new food
Partyin' with the zoo crew
Lookin' for the pickin' poo-poos
I thought you knew true
Stole style for stamina, jammin'
And while we planin' a jam, we bust, bust with a party
Amity damages, managin' damagin'
Mice, men, and even mannequins
You're a fan again, I'ma wanna know who's the mannequin
Naughties back like vertebrae's birthday
Hey, I hope, the way I show you, pray I flow
Steady breakin' to the boogie
So better time to slay, bangin' rocks, all the blue tag, tag, tag, tag
Here we go now, holla if you hear me though
Come and feel me though
Here we go now, holla if you hear me though
Come and feel me though
Playin' can you break the body of a beat, the beat, the break, it's a point
GM, GM guys, we are in billboard
And I muted everyone but I still hear air on what's happening there
For everybody to hip up, let's play the get up
Get up your rhythm, suit up, put your dokes up
No guts set up or set up
Flip up, watch us rip up
Shake toes until they piss up
Riz up, like you're with us
If not, zip up, you lift up
Rip up, hits with grand
Some foul styles get damn ones
We came back cause we heard it
Pop needed another anthem
Black like Noah, impacted foyer
And we was back in the days with the jokes
As we'd have been known as the blows
Dread the knees since the 70s, find me
So we went crazy in the 80s
So we woke his heinies in the 90s
Oops to naughties
Troops in sections of 40s
So clap your hands and hold your shorty
I'm naughty
GM, GM guys
Super excited about today's episode
We gotta bring ApeCoin to the future right now
I can't wait
If you have any questions, hop into the comments
Repost the space so more people can join with us
And we are also live billboard comedy club with Aaron
It's the first episode
We are warming up the club
So I can't wait guys, it's epic
Let's go
Let's, you know what
Let's make ApeCoin
The primary token of the metaverse right now
And we have to go back to the future for that
Stand up and go back to the future for that
Hold enjoy
dich
Elo?!
Did?
Week
Week
Week
Week
Week
Week
Let's go, guys.
We are under pressure because we are also in comedy club
and we should be funny today and it's hard.
So, Micah and Nova, you have to make a lot of jokes,
you know, so people in the billow board are happy.
I don't know how we're going to do it,
but we have one more minute to go, guys, of intro.
Have fun, dance if you're on the club, sit back, relax, and let's go, baby.
You got a product, bag with a lot of stuff in it,
give it to your friend, let's spin.
Everybody looking at me, glancing at the kid,
wishing me was dancing a jig here with this handsome kid.
Sick a cigar right from Cuba Cuba, I just bite it.
It's for the look, I don't light it.
It'll wake your hand, they own a hand, they go play.
Give it up, you make it feel like a boy play.
Yo, my cardio is infinite.
Ha-ha, Big Willie Stiles all in it.
Yeah, we are in the club.
What's up, guys, let's go.
This is Grateful Show 203.
GM, GM, guys, another exciting episode.
Today, we're going to be talking about AIP 326,
and we have amazing guests here on stage, so I can't wait.
But before we invite them on stage,
I want to say hi to Beast, my co-host.
How are you doing, man?
What's good today?
Yo, GM, GM.
I'm excited, man.
I've been in a club already.
I'm standing right next to Aaron right now.
Shout out to Aaron.
And it's going to be a good space.
I love the intro.
We're definitely in the future,
and I'm happy to chat.
Amazing, man.
Super excited, too.
Guys, we often talk about ApeCoin.
We've had many episodes about AIPs, you know,
and we love pushing this space forward.
And this is actually a great AIP, in my opinion.
Yeah, before we get anywhere,
I want to invite our guests,
because I think it's a time.
If you are in the club, guys, have fun.
Take screenshots with us.
Share it on Twitter or X.
And I think it's a time to invite Micah and Noah on stage.
Let's go.
Let's fucking go.
GM, GM, guys, how you doing today?
What's good?
What's up, Grateful?
Stoked to be here, man.
It's been a while.
And excited to be here chatting about the future.
Same here, man.
Really pumped.
And I know that, you know,
we are all talking about
will ApeCoin be the token of the metaverse?
We want ApeCoin to be the token of the metaverse.
So really excited about to talk what you guys are doing.
Yeah, thank you for joining.
Nova, how is it going for you, man?
What's good?
Hey, hey.
Happy to be here, man.
Thank you for having us.
How are you doing, Grateful?
I am doing great.
I have like 20 windows open in my browser.
I'm in Comedy Club, Spotify, Notion, Twitter, Wikipedia, YouTube.
Yeah, Legends of the Mara, Heavy Metal.
I don't know where else.
So it's wild, guys.
It's wild.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm a bit lost here in all those screens.
I'm feeling like that, you know, those stock traders, right?
So that's my setup today.
But I'm ready.
I'm ready.
GF, GF, guys.
It's the same situation for me.
I think you forgot, Grateful, actually mentioned the comments also.
I'm also in the comments and going through, you know, trying to respond everything.
So it's going to be a wild episode.
Epic.
Guys, if you want to be funny, we have 60 minutes.
Now it's only 52 minutes in the club.
So Nova, Micah, if you want to be super funny, tell jokes.
You know, you have 52 minutes.
After that, we got to turn and we'd be so serious, you know.
So just to let you know, and I think it's time to dive deep into that AIP because it's
really cool.
And I want to start with one tweet, guys.
You also have it in that discourse, right?
That Adam Hollander actually tweeted or asked or how we call it these days that we should
focus on creating a kit to make a turnkey for any company website to easily integrate
Ape for payments and rewards.
And I thought, honestly, that it's super easy to ask, that it's already happened and then
we can easily, you know, install a plugin.
But it's not true, right?
So I would like to start, guys, to ask you, when did you come up with the idea for this
AIP?
What was that like the issue or the impulse for you that you were like, damn, we need
to do something with that?
So we actually came up with it.
Well, actually, before I dive into that, it sounds like you're super lost in all the games
that are going on and all this stuff.
You said you're like a stock trader, except I feel like there's one critical distinction
and that's that you're spending money instead of making money as a stock trader.
Yeah, I'm on the side of losing traders, probably.
You and me both.
You and me both.
But yeah, so we came up with the idea, I think basically like six to eight months ago.
And originally, what had happened was Nova got in touch with me and asked, hey, can you
help me integrate ApeCoin into my game?
The game was called Flappy Coda, is called Flappy Coda, still live, fun to play.
And I was like, oh, sure, that should be easy.
Let's jump into it.
I'll just spin up some stuff that we've got and we'll make it happen in like a month.
And here we are, you know, four, six months later and it's still not up.
So it turns out that, yeah, it's a difficult problem to solve, not for the sake of us being
unable to solve it, but more that the tools aren't out there and a lot of it has to kind
of be done, you know, from scratch.
So while we were working on that, we realized, hey, let's solve this problem for everybody,
not just ourselves and come up with a way to make it easy for other game developers and
other companies to be able to easily integrate ApeCoin.
Guys, I have a question because I think integration is really important.
You know, we not only have games, right, but we also have like e-commerce businesses.
You know, now we have that ThankApe and Probe House thing.
Um, are we talking today or is this AIP only about games and gaming or will we be able to
use, you know, the product also for e-commerce?
Yeah, I mean, I could probably jump in there.
So, I mean, really any web-based product can use the game or like any app, I would say,
game, e-commerce storefront will be able to use our platform, you know.
So, ApeCoin payments and rewards, you know, all different modules we're building, you know,
all you just need essentially is, you know, be able to integrate the payments part, which
is like, you know, probably adding just a few lines of code and then you'll be able to do
a few other things that we can jump into later once we're going to dive deeper into the features.
Um, but yeah, I mean, like even for example, like, you know, like I know, uh, I think you're
selling chocolate now.
I'm grateful.
So, you know, if you have like a gratefulchocolate.com, whatever you have, you know, like, like wherever
you're selling it, uh, you'll be able to take our platform, you know, add, uh, you know,
ApeCoin payments there.
And maybe every time somebody buys, let's say, I don't know, like a hundred ApeCoin worth of
chocolate, maybe they get like a free, uh, collectible, you know, like a grateful NFT or something,
or maybe, I don't know, like your face on a poster or something, whatever, whatever you
want.
Love the vibe guys.
I really can feel that, uh, you know, that you are in the comedy club right now and, uh,
yeah, I'm counting down all the jokes.
So I think Micah is winning, uh, two, two, one to Nova.
So yeah, we got, we got to count it out after the show.
Uh, I think it's, uh, it's going to be a lot of fun, but yeah, um, let's start with why,
like, why, why should we implement, you know, ApeCoin into the games, uh, in, in, in, you
know, to help other people, uh, what is your why and how, because we always talk with web
two, uh, web two people here, you know, also, and, uh, they're, they're sometimes skeptical
about a web three gaming, et cetera, et cetera.
So why should we do it and how can we sell it to traditional web two companies?
Yeah, I think there's sort of two sides to it.
One is on the ApeCoin side, um, and then the other is on, you know, the benefit to people
who integrate ApeCoin.
I'd say that on the ApeCoin side, you know, obviously it's critical that we get this token,
um, a lot more visibility.
We want it to be integrated into all the platforms that are already part of the ecosystem.
And then ideally beyond that into the web two world, um, you know, it helps with the tokens
network effects.
We add a bunch of syncs for the token, um, generally, you know, add some utility to the
token.
So that's a big why on the ApeCoin side.
And then on the, um, the platform side and, you know, the game side, um, there's a ton
of benefits to integrating ApeCoin.
I think one of them is that, you know, you can see a lot of these other projects that
have spun up their own game ecosystems.
And when they do that, they kind of, they create their own token and, um, what this
ends up actually doing is almost isolating them because they create, you know, their
own ecosystem token and they're kind of competing with other tokens out there on the market.
Um, they create a whole nother like economy and, um, it ends up being something that's
like pretty isolated.
Um, so a benefit to integrating ApeCoin is that we can have this sort of network effect
of a token that can go across all the ecosystems, you know, say there's like a treasure DAO type
game.
Actually, they could integrate ApeCoin on Arbitrum, um, and you'd still have, you know, the ability
to tap into the same sort of network.
So I think that's another big, big piece of it.
And then I'm sure Nova has plenty to say as well, but in my mind, those are kind of the
two major benefits, which is just the network effects and, um, you know, obviously the benefits
of having a token in a game.
Um, yeah, Nova, do you want to add anything?
Um, I mean, I think I should cover that pretty well.
Um, I will also say, man, I'm just expanding on the network effect part.
I mean, I would say the UV ecosystem and the ApeCoin ecosystem is probably one of the biggest
in Web3 right now.
Um, so by using ApeCoin as, you know, uh, inside your, you know, app or game or web-based product,
whatever it is, a storefront, you are essentially going to open, you know, opening that product to
the whole ecosystem of, of, of, of, you know, of, uh, Web3 users, um, you know, who do hold
the token, right.
And who, who do, you know, uh, I would say, uh, aggressively shop and, you know, spend the
ApeCoin.
Although I guess it really depends on, you know, the product, of course, you know what I mean?
Like personally, I, I did spend, you know, the ApeCoin to hatch a couple of Mars the other
day.
So, you know, I'm personally spending it.
I love it guys.
And I, I, I think I, I just got a quick idea, especially if you guys billow board, uh, at
billow board club, if you want to start spending ApeCoin, you know, I probably invented the solution
right now.
Just send all your ApeCoin to greatflame.eth.
We have it fixed right now.
And yeah, I can start spending it somewhere else.
No, just kidding.
Don't do that.
But if you want, who cares?
Right.
So yeah, uh, absolutely, absolutely understand guys.
One thing I still don't understand is how actually should the payments work, right?
Because ApeCoin is L1, is L1, right?
And, uh, you know, every transaction costs gas.
Uh, will it work like, uh, in the games that we know from Yuga?
So basically you buy gears or you buy some in-game currency, or is there some other solution
to that?
So, uh, you know, we don't have to pay gas fees.
Um, yeah, it can work a number of ways.
So we're planning on implementing it in like basically a spectrum.
So you can decide if you want it to be, um, you know, pay for something with ApeCoin and
you have to submit a transaction every single time.
If you want to torture your, your players, um, the second option would be basically the
way Yuga does it where, yeah, you can buy some in-game currency and then, um, you know,
it's one transaction and then you just use that currency in the game.
And then the third option, um, which I think is longer term and obviously needs to kind
of come from the DAO itself or from, um, ApeCoin and it needs to be pushed by the entire
ecosystem, but we can definitely get ApeCoin onto some sort of layer too.
Um, and then transactions are quicker and easier.
Um, but one of the key things that we, we want to do to solve a lot of these problems too
is actually in the wallet side.
Um, so we have ways to implement some new stuff like wallet abstraction, um, to make
it so that you actually don't have to spend any gas or spend any transactions in order
to spend.
You can do one signature up front and then, um, or basically just signatures and then those
signatures can be passed, um, to the wallet abstraction layer and, um, that enables you
to basically submit transactions.
And then you can have this thing called a paymaster on the other end, which can actually pay the
gas for you.
Um, so we're planning to make use of that in our, in our implementation.
Yeah, because I, I think this is really important, uh, for a lot of my friends that are outside
of web three, they, they, they want to try stuff, but for them really like, it's really
interesting, but you know, seed phrase and metamask and all that stuff, you know, cold wallet,
hot wallet, uh, they, they, they don't have usually, they usually don't have time to, to
learn how it works.
So if they want to play a quick game, basically what you said, Micah, that you just use your
email and password and you'll be able to play the games using ApeCoin.
Is that correct?
Or how, how does it work?
Yep, that's right.
So with the wallet abstraction, um, yeah, we can spin you up a wallet just by email or,
you know, connect Twitter, whatever it is you want.
Um, and then you're, you're on your way.
I love that you guys thinking of how to make this stuff easier, how to make things work
without all this crazy stuff, geeky stuff that we're doing actually these days.
And it seems normal to us because we were kind of born from that, right?
But when you talk to people from the outside, they're like, hell no, I'm not going to be
doing all this stuff, you know, just to play a game right now.
I want to have it quick and I want to have it easy.
Micah, I was wondering, like, how, how is it going to work with wallets?
How do you see the future?
Like, will even people have MetaMask like most of the players or they will have some type
of wallets that will be within the game and maybe they don't even need it unless they want
to, you know, be a little more, a little more geeky?
Yeah, I mean, I think like everything, it's going to be a spectrum.
Like, if you look at the traditional financial system, you got people who are, you know,
day traders and deeply understand the financial system.
They're using crazy derivatives and options and stuff like that.
And then you got the people who just want to use Venmo.
So yeah, I think it'll be, it'll be a spectrum.
There's going to be people who still have wallets, maybe still use MetaMask.
And then there's going to be the people who don't want to care or know anything about
it and it'll just be embedded in the game and they don't have to think about it.
Can we cover all this spectrum with ApeCoin or there needs to be done something what you
mentioned before, like either some type of layer twos or like an in-game currency that
will be exchangeable or something else?
Yeah, we're probably going to have to use a bunch of different approaches to make it
possible.
I think a layer two theoretically would still be ApeCoin.
It would just be a bridge to a layer two, which is definitely possible if we can get people
on board.
But yeah, and then I think the solution of like an in-game currency that you purchase
that's maybe not even on a chain at all could just be within the game is also a potential.
And, you know, it just kind of depends on the level of like decentralization that people
care about.
Yeah, that's the thing.
We always have this other part that we, there needs to be some balance, right?
Between the, between having it user-friendly and also still having it decentralized because
I guess it's not difficult to make it user-friendly, right?
But it's hard to mix these two things.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the challenge, but I think we'll get there.
Why is it like so difficult right now?
Like you mentioned, you guys were actually surprised that you spent six months.
I don't know if it's already ready or not, but it's insane.
I guess, you know, I'm surprised actually that it's, it's that hard.
So how's the process right now and how easy it will be for developers to implement ApeCoin
once you guys go with your tools solution?
So it's hard right now because mostly it just has to do with like research.
So we spent, we spent a ton of time looking at like a bunch of different platforms that
are already out there and by the time you go to implement them, you, you like recognize
something that, that doesn't work for you.
So, you know, for example, a lot of these platforms like Third Web or some of the others
out there, they, they keep your, your user base.
So when you use them, you have to pay them, you know, for as long as you want to keep it
running.
And they hold on to like your customer and your player data, which is kind of a, not
an ideal scenario, especially if we're trying to go for decentralization.
So like the first challenge is just deciding which thing to choose and the differences and
the trade-offs between all the different things.
And so that's kind of hard.
And then if you don't want to use those and obviously you have to build it from scratch
and that's extremely hard, which is basically the approach that we took.
Um, and that was why, you know, it's kind of taken us a while.
I also, to be fair, I don't think it would have taken us a full six months just to add
in a point to his game.
Had we just been focusing exclusively, exclusively on that.
Um, but about a month in, we basically decided to build, you know, this AIP in this long-term
solution.
Um, so we got, you know, we dove into that.
So definitely still challenging, maybe not six months just to add a point.
But the problem we want to solve is not just adding ApeCoin, but just making it easy to
use blockchain in games, which is a much larger problem.
Yeah.
And you guys within this space and still it's complicated.
So I can imagine if someone wants to come, you know, and create that, it will be even
more challenging for them to figure all things out.
Yeah, definitely.
Uh, but hopefully once we have it up, the idea would be that, you know, it's like a one
day turnaround to get something as simple as adding a wallet and, you know, maybe making
an ApeCoin payment within your game.
Obviously longer than that, depending on the complexity of what you're trying to do.
But yeah, we want it to be something that's pretty quick and easy to get spun up and get
running quick.
That's the whole point of the, of the project.
Nice.
Do you guys think that it's one of the reasons why we actually don't see many games besides
the Yuga Labs and games from Animoca brands using ApeCoin?
That it's like so hard that maybe some of the developers, they're like just, hey, like
do it maybe later or like figure it out the other way because it takes so much time?
Um, yeah, I think it's likely, I think it's that and also, you know, the desire to maybe
like launch your own token or, um, you know, some compliance stuff.
There's, there's other reasons for sure.
But yeah, I think the complexity piece is, is a big part of it.
Also just building web three games in general, not even, not even the blockchain side, but
the game side is also a challenge.
So, um, yeah, it just takes time.
Guys, I will quickly refresh the room, uh, for everyone here, uh, on X spaces and everyone
in below board guys, if you have any questions in below board, you can, you can type into
the chat.
If you have questions on X, also go into the comments, you can ask there and then retweet
the space so more people can join us and vibe with us.
Um, let's get, let's get into the more details of this AIP guys.
Um, I know you, Micah, I know you, uh, Leo or, or, or Nova or, you know, Vora or I don't
know what else, but I love Lepicoda.
It's really funny game.
You know, I, I also love that you utilize IP guys.
Could, could you tell a bit what, what you, uh, do in the space and, uh, who's part of the
team that would work on, on this pro, uh, on this proposal?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, Leo, go ahead.
You start.
No worries.
Um, yeah.
So I am the founder, uh, of Vora Labs.
Um, we are a web three gaming studio and art studio.
Um, so far we, um, launched about a year ago, actually last September we launched it.
It's been like, you know, a little over a year since we actually went live with the,
with the company.
Um, since then we launched a number of games, we launched a game called, uh, dashboard, uh,
a game, which actually uses, uh, Vora IP and, uh, also a coda and a mutant hound, which
was, you know, it's like an endless castle runner.
Um, we launched a game called Flappy Coda, which is, I mean, all games have been, it's
so far like proofs of concept.
So we're going to launch, you know, initial gameplay, kind of just got this in feedback.
Um, so second game is called Flappy Coda, which is essentially like a flappy derivative,
uh, with the code in it.
Um, that got really good engagement.
And then we actually went, we went live with it.
So, uh, now we're adding to it a few, a few more features.
So we're adding, you know, like April integration.
Um, we're also adding, uh, in-game upgrades, uh, as well as power-ups, um, that's going to
be, you know, I think by the time we're actually, we're done with it, it might be like the most
advanced Flappy game on the market, you know, that's ever been made.
So, um, yeah, pretty proud of that.
So there's some innovation happening with Flappy genre as well, which is, I think is cool.
Um, we also recently published, uh, a foreign experience called multi mayhem, um, that,
you know, was published about a month ago, um, which also features, you know, some Yugo
IP as well.
Um, and yeah, been working on this platform now, you know, with, uh, with Mike's team
for, you know, for the last few months, uh, you know, really looking forward to just,
you know, building, building out all the features because honestly, like myself, you know, included,
I mean, I think a lot of game devs right now in the ecosystem do want a lot of these
features, you know, like even things like, you know, like on-chain achievements that are
gasless and, you know, uh, ability to pay with ApeCoin, um, you know, uh, ability to
transact without having to sign and pay gas every time.
A lot of these things just, you know, are just really difficult to, to be able to integrate
it into the, into the various games that you're building.
Um, so, you know, probably we're going to use these games that we have like Flappy
code or like dashboard as essentially like sandboxes for all the features that we
build, you know, so as we, you know, as these games are built out, you know, further
and further, uh, they'll be the first to get these features that we can kind of
showcase other game developers, you know, Hey, like check, check out how this works
in an actual game.
Amazing.
Thank you so much, man.
And guys, definitely check Flappy Coda.
It's, it's really cool that game with, with, um, Sean Nana in it, right?
And yeah, I would say, uh, yeah, I would definitely say like with wait, you know,
wait until the version, uh, you know, version three is live.
It should be live in the next like couple of weeks or so.
And that one will have like all the, you know, uh, powerups and upgrades and, you
know, April integration.
Let's go.
Micah.
Uh, I know, I, I really love the, um, the name of your company.
It reminds me like CP three, but, uh, it's a CR three, right?
So, uh, what, what R stands for?
I know CP is Chris Paul.
Uh, I'm not sure about, uh, the, the R.
Man, did you ask this way?
Because yes, I asked this way, man.
Let's go, baby.
I tried, but everyone.
Crickets.
Yeah, exactly.
There was crickets or like.
Yeah.
Okay.
I tried, you know, I tried.
It's like, they say, you know, you have to fail like thousand times, you know?
So that like, okay, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, maybe skip that.
It was good.
It was good.
I was laughing.
I was just muted.
Don't worry.
Um, no, for sure.
So for those of you that don't know me, uh, I'm Micah.
My company's name is CR three labs.
Uh, we actually do have a product called CR three PO, um, with the, uh, star Wars reference
there.
So pretty close.
And that's basically like a bot, um, you know, AI bot platform that we have internally,
but, but anyways, yeah.
So our company CR three is, uh, basically we focus on tooling for web three games.
Um, so one of the other products we're working on too, it's called other page and you can
check both of those out at CR, CR three labs.com.
Uh, you got me all messed up.
I'm going to start saying C three PO.
Um, and the, so my background is mostly in blockchain.
Um, I've actually been working in space for quite a while, built one of the first decentralized
exchanges, um, and also, you know, huge avid gamers.
So the mesh of those two things gets me super excited.
Um, some of the other people working on the team that I think, you know, is really important
to, to give a call out here.
So we've, we've also got Taylor Nelson, who's in the crowd.
Um, he was previously at immutable and he's done a lot of pretty amazing sort of like business
development, strategic stuff in the space as well.
Um, and then we've got Brandon, who's my co-founder and he's an incredible designer.
He's been also working in space for a long time.
He's done some stuff that you might even recognize like the week, um, candy wrapper logo, which
is kind of all over the industry.
He did that a long time ago.
Um, kind of set the precedent for the way that a lot of stuff is designed in the space, I believe.
Um, so yeah, super talented UI UX brand guy.
Um, and then recently we've got Alex McCurry, who's joined us as a technology partner.
Um, and he runs a company called solidity, solidity.io.
Um, and Alex McCurry is pretty well known name in the industry and has worked on, um, you know, a lot of things,
including even ape coin itself.
So yeah, we've got a pretty sweet team here and we're, we're super stoked to see what we can pull off.
Epic.
I love that you mentioned, uh, Taylor, because I absolutely love the background color.
You know, it's not like beasts.
Um, so yeah, uh, I'm, I'm in for this AIP a hundred percent.
Uh, man, there are three other orange backgrounds in the room, you know, so be careful.
Oh yeah, I know.
Nova, I saw you, I saw you on a mute.
Go ahead.
Now I was going to say, you know, the CR3PO is actually a bot that buys an empty, you know,
at the top and sells them at the bottom.
Also known as exit liquidity bot.
So if you want to, if you, if you want to contact Mike.
Oh my God.
We are getting some cheers from the comedy club.
They really love, uh, you know, we kind of move from AIP to, to jokes.
I love it guys.
You're really good.
I also got one question like, uh, uh, why is your avatar so sexy?
So the answer, the answer is, uh, you have to meet me in the Hong Kong guys.
Uh, that, that's gotta be answer for that.
Um, and yeah, let, let's move on.
I have a question about actually using crypto in, in games.
Uh, do you, what kind of benefits do you see compared to like traditional fiat payments?
Right.
Because I can see some like, you know, bank fees, you know, transaction fees, et cetera, et cetera.
Maybe it's slower.
Um, I don't know.
Uh, anyone could share, uh, something, you know, that why it's better for, uh, game companies
actually to switch to crypto, uh, compared to fiat.
Um, I think the biggest thing is just that tokens are the rails to NFTs.
Actually, that's a big part of it.
The ability to basically take the full, uh, financial system and move it into the same
framework that powers some of the game assets is really important to like streamline everything.
Um, you know, they're called, they're also called tokens and we already have tokens in
games, so we might as well make them actual crypto tokens.
Um, but the other benefit is like you mentioned, I mean, I think some of the banking infrastructure,
um, is kind of unnecessary when it comes to gaming.
If you can plug right into a cryptocurrency and have it much easier, um, without having
to like go directly through a bank for a game, then I think it also makes a lot of sense.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of benefits.
I don't know if we all would be here if there weren't.
So, um, you know, some of them are intuitive to us and we just got to figure out how to
make it intuitive to people outside of the space.
Would you guys say that like the games, gaming companies can actually make even more money
if they use the, the, uh, crypto?
Because like I, I was two days ago, I was listening to a podcast with John Linden from the
Mythical Games and he was actually mentioning that they don't have the, the store, the NFT
and crypto store implemented in the games.
So it out, it is outside for now, but they already see that people are actually spending
a lot of money because they just want to have, they just want to play and have fun.
So I was quite surprised that he was really positive about having NFTs and crypto, uh, in
their games.
Do you guys think that it can be this behavior?
Yeah.
So, um, maybe I'll just refer to the question a little bit.
I think the question to ask is like, do digital collectibles, do players care about, uh, in
the game ownership and digital collectibles, right?
Does that improve the player experience?
And the answer to that is yes, I do believe it does.
In the case of Mythical, actually, it's pretty cool there, what they did, right?
Because, um, you can download the NFT Rivals today, which is their flagship game.
Um, you can actually, it's accessible on both iOS and Android.
Uh, you're able to go into their, uh, in-game app store and be able to purchase NFTs with
actually even knowing their NFTs, uh, using, uh, in-app payments, either via iOS or, or,
or Android store, right?
With just a couple, you know, a couple of bunk taps, you essentially buy, you know, buy the
collectible.
Um, and then you're able to, if you want to later and be able to sell it, uh, on the
Mythical marketplace, like you mentioned, which is, you know, a separate, uh, you know,
a separate marketplace.
Um, so essentially like, you know, this gives players a bit more ownership of the asset
rather than just, you know, for example, you know, buying, uh, uh, you know, an in-game
asset that they can never do anything with besides just, you know, have an essentialized
database.
Um, they also have the ability to actually, for example, send it to their own wallet, which
actually, I think with that, you can do that because, um,
these are like NFT licensed, uh, licensed assets.
So I'll mention NFT, uh, then I felt it allows you to do that for, for, for them, but, uh,
potentially, you know, for other games, you actually could do that.
You can actually allow players to say, you know, we'll say that the buy, uh, in-game
collectible, well, they can actually send, send to their own wallet if they want to, then
maybe sell on secondary, maybe keep as a piece of art as, you know, as like a provenance,
you know, for the future saying, Hey, like, here's like everybody are at, you know, game
asset that I earned playing all these hours.
And then here's my history, you know, a piece of history that I always have with me, you know,
for the, for the future.
Um, so like, so, so I think we'll get to a point, I think eventually where like players
have a choice.
It's like, you know, like, cause like gaming, I mean, game developers all copy each other.
I mean, there's a lot of games, I would say that just the risk of each other, you know,
and if you, I would say that, you know, and really just, you know, it's, uh, you're really
competing as game developers for players, you know, time, right.
Um, so as a player, if you have a choice between, let's say two, you know, pretty close games
that one has collectibles and actually some, some ownership, other does not, you're probably
going to, you know, eventually, you know, once you understand the benefits are going to
go with the game that has the collectibles, you know?
Um, and I think once that kind of mentality starts to shift, you know, and players understand
what they're actually getting and what they're actually missing out on, uh, you'll see, you
know, just much faster adopters start to happen and, and, you know, games integrating these
assets into their, uh, into their various experiences.
Yeah.
I think that's a critical point that, you know, framing it as mostly what the players want,
not necessarily what the platforms want.
Um, but that said, I do think it's also like you had, like you mentioned grateful.
It's definitely a new sort of revenue channel and a really lucrative one at that.
And I think there's also a huge advantage to being able to basically open up in game
markets, um, you know, kind of to like the open market, as opposed to it being isolated
in your game, there's a big benefit there and huge benefit to having royalties on your
assets and all the things that come with NFTs.
So yeah, from a money perspective, definitely a big win for these game developers in the future.
Yeah, I agree, man.
And, uh, you are lucky.
We actually hosted, uh, John Linden here before they, they released the NFT rivals, right?
Beast.
And it was such an interesting talk.
Like, uh, he's really, uh, like OG in gaming and he has such a crazy knowledge.
So I think, uh, as you, Micah mentioned, right, we hear because we are believers in this space
in NFTs and crypto and, uh, you know, experiencing the Yuga, Yuga games.
Uh, it's really interesting, you know, that you basically own the assets, uh, you own the
heavy metals and you can play with them.
So, uh, absolutely love that.
And your AIP guys should help us to actually, you know, have in-game, uh, payments or use
ApeCoin, uh, for the game.
So let's get a little bit deeper about, uh, you know, what your AIP, uh, is about.
Could you tell us, um, uh, a little bit more like, uh, what's the timeline and, uh, you
know, how you want to go, uh, step-by-step?
If, uh, whoever, uh, or beast, if you want to start, go ahead.
I'll pin it up also in the meantime so that, uh, people can check the AIP.
So maybe the first question, when will be this AIP live?
When can people vote actually?
Yeah.
Um, so we expect to go for a vote pretty soon.
We're currently in an admin review.
Um, I would say probably like a week or two, I think, because when will it be up for a
vote is, is my expectation.
Um, of course, you know, this could change depending on, you know, other factors, like
what I have control over what, you know, exactly when it happens, but I assume probably the
next vote or the vote after.
So there's like, there's one starting tonight and that's, you know, I think it's probably
next one, I think it's like six days or so.
And then the following one is another six days.
So I think between now and then, I hope.
Um, amazing.
And if you, if this AIP pass, what, what is the timeline?
Like is the product, uh, ready or is there some, you know, you still need, uh, some stuff
to finish or, uh,
Yeah, so we have, we have an internal sort of like alpha product that is ready that we're
using to enable the ApeCoin for Flappy Coda.
Um, and then our plan is to basically iteratively, um, build on top of that and, or even completely
rebuild it from scratch.
Um, but we feel really confident that we're, we're basically nine months away from like
the full fledged platform that has, you know, um, the ability for anyone to kind of sign
up and be ready to go with a bunch of different features.
Um, but yeah, we're going to have it.
It's going to be an iterative approach.
So we have different features that are going to be available in these like milestone chunks.
And the first milestone is after two months.
Um, that's like an MVP where we can kind of start onboarding some, some other pilot customers
and start testing things.
Um, and then three months after that, we'll have things like the embedded wallet, the NFT
mentor.
Um, and then another four months after that, we're, we're focused on like our achievements
and our player network that we mentioned in the proposal.
You mentioned NFT mentor.
Does it mean that the, the gaming companies will be able to actually mint their in-game
assets with you guys?
Yeah.
So it'll either be with us or through a third party.
So something like fair.
Um, but we will have like an, an, a mentor available.
So you'd be able to mint your NFTs directly within your game.
Yeah.
Like, uh, either game or like, you know, like web-based app or e-commerce solution.
I guess earlier, you know, um, so essentially the, these will be gasless transactions, you
know, um, kind of depending on, you know, which, um, you know, which blockchain of assets
are on.
Um, we are, we are probably going to have like an L2 offering as well as, you know, potentially
if, you know, if our clients want, let's say, you know, uh, layer one, uh, as their, you
know, blockchain of choice for the NFTs, then they would also go with that one.
Um, and then, you know, either have the gas subsidized, you know, uh, on the backend or
just have the players play gas.
I also, uh, read in, in your AIP about, uh, achievements and rewards.
Um, can there be something more that we know from traditional games or that crypto can enables
in, in, in, in this area?
Um, I mean, I think in terms of NFTs, one of the like really logical, um, you know, use
cases for them is achievements and rewards.
Um, the ability to basically hold onto your assets and have provenance over the things
that you've done.
Um, you know, a lot of us for a long time use like PO apps back in the day.
Maybe some of us still do, but, um, I think that's like a pretty key indicator of like
a really useful thing that you can use within crypto and within games.
And that's the ability to just like have, you know, all these accomplishments and things
that you've done within a game minted somewhere that you can like display and, um, you know,
showcase to other people to, to show how awesome of a gamer you are, you know?
Yeah.
It was really cool during the second trip, right?
We got, we want that helmet, uh, if you were in the right team, uh, right beast.
Uh, so, uh, you could get a helmet, uh, you could buy it also, man.
Also with cool cats, right?
Like I recently burned my cool pets and, uh, based on your rewards that you got through
the journeys, uh, you could burn them also.
And you could get, I think, higher chances to get rarer, uh, sidekicks, right?
So I think the game with the NFTs and the rewards on blockchain, I think it's really
funny and, and it can open so many doors.
So, uh, it's, it's really cool.
Yeah, absolutely.
We feel the same way for sure.
Yeah, I think so guys.
Like one of the thing, like when I was going through your, uh, proposal and I was thinking
about the questions and all this stuff, like one of the question I was thinking about,
like why there isn't some, like a business development team or something within ApeCoin
or ApeCoin Dell that actually go to gaming studios and explain people, explain developers
why they should actually use ApeCoin.
Wouldn't it be something that would help?
Or maybe I'm not sure.
I think there isn't something like that, but is there something you guys think about
like how to actually explain developers or what else to do to make ApeCoin, ApeCoin in
games?
Sounds like a proposal that you should make grateful.
No, I was, you know, I was wondering because when, when you think, for example, about, uh,
Polygon, I was also listening podcast with them and they spent so much time on business
development and getting all these, uh, companies to work with them.
Right.
I was like, why there is nothing with ApeCoin Dell actually?
Yeah, this, this topic's actually been coming up a couple of times in the last few spaces
that I've been in.
And I think it's a really, yeah, it's a key point.
I do think ApeCoin could use something along these lines and it is something that we might,
you know, we could potentially help with in terms of onboarding people to our platform.
We'll, we'll have a biz dev team to be doing that.
Um, you know, so we do think that will be super beneficial, but, but the ApeCoin DAO
itself should also have a team, you know, for educational resources and also doing business
development just to capture and try to convince people to move over to ApeCoin as much as
possible.
I think that would be a really good idea.
Yeah.
I mean, I, yeah, I maybe like, we'll say like, I think a difference too is like, you know,
Polygon essentially, you know, it's like a for-profit company while, you know, ApeCoin is
essentially a grand stat, you know, so I think that there are different motivations there
as well, because like Polygon, if they, you know, if they, you know, if they hustle and
onboard all these different gamers, you know, like maybe, you know, um, the, you know, folks
that hold the token and make money.
And also of course, you know, like there'll be more use cases for the token and like, you
know, um, uh, they do own quite a bit of tokens as well, like all the, all the founders
there.
So there's definitely an incentive, you know, to kind of really drive Polygon adoption.
And, uh, there's a for-profit company as well as like VC fund and has like 400 million
plus in funding that they raise, you know, so like that becomes more valuable.
Um, so they're, they're really incentivized to kind of drive both token adoption as well
as the value for the company.
Um, I think for ApeCoin and DAO, it's still different because like Yuga is a separate entity
and like, you know, they find out as a separate, like offshore, I think Cayman Island, you
know, organization.
Um, so there's, you know, I think it's separated for a reason, obviously for legal reasons,
but, uh, I guess, I think a little, you know, um, it is, I think there's like different, uh,
incentive alignment there as well.
You know, like, I don't think necessarily if, you know, if ApeCoin, you know, really booms,
like, I don't think that necessarily, but, you know, uh, you know, drives Yuga, labs valuation
much, much higher up, you know, and vice versa.
So like, if, you know, if you go, let's say it goes down in price, you know, maybe, uh,
I don't, none of them necessarily like drives a token down, like way down, um, but I think
polygons like really directly correlated, I think.
Yeah.
This makes sense a hundred percent.
Uh, I also believe that, uh, you know, to onboard more gaming companies is basically
to show them, uh, you know, some numbers.
I know Spencer talked a lot about, um, when, when heavy metal started, right.
Uh, and when other companies see that it makes sense to implement crypto, uh, they will,
they will follow.
Also, we saw that with, with players, right?
Like with Dookie Dash, like Orangie, he basically stayed in space, right?
He got his Ape.
So I'm not sure if it, if it was only because of the Dookie Dash that he started playing that,
but, uh, it's really cool to see that.
Uh, and Mongral, he won those, that key, right?
And he sold for 1.6 million.
So it brought attention to Web3 gaming and a lot of stuff is happening.
So I believe if we have easier payments, you know, more examples, uh, uh, there is a chance
to onboard more, more gamers, gamers and, and more companies.
And, uh, we definitely, uh, need, uh, games that are fun, right?
So, uh, I think, uh, really interesting times, uh, are ahead.
Yeah, guys, I will refresh your room one more time.
Uh, there are 12 more minutes in below board.
So if you are there, have fun, dance, jump, do whatever you want, uh, hit that T button,
uh, type something in the chat.
Uh, I see Aaron, he stood on my shoulders.
I don't know what he was doing there, but yeah, that's the beauty of Metaverse, guys.
I can't wait to actually have more, um, you know, like Metaverse experiences.
That's why we're here.
We're cheering for other side.
And this one is actually taking place in Monaverse.
So I see Jesus is something from Mochaverse probably.
And they may be, you know, there was a typo.
I don't know.
Yeah, not a failed joke, but let's keep going with the AIP, guys.
Uh, there is a budget, 480K, uh, US dollars.
So could you tell me how you're going to spend it?
How are you going to use it and yeah.
Yeah.
So the 480K split between all the different teams, um, you know, it's, it's going to be
used across obviously majority on the development side of things, or at least a good portion
of it, um, all the things that come along with that.
So the UI design, the, the dashboards that we're building, there's a, an admin dashboard.
There's also like a player side dashboard for the achievements and rewards, um, bunch
of, uh, nerdy technical stuff for APIs and the SDKs that we need to build and the smart
contract development.
So a lot of it is going into that almost, you know, probably 250 to 300 of it.
Uh, and then the rest is going into pretty standard business stuff, marketing, business
development, um, the partnerships we're going to have to come up with some legal spend.
Um, yeah, I think that covers most of it.
Nice.
I know, Michael, that you like this nerdy technical stuff also, right?
I read your sub stack also, by the way, that's, it's, it's amazing sub stack.
Uh, you wrote about, uh, ERC 6551, right?
That, uh, the, the, you wrote about, uh, uh, the smart wallets and 4337.
So it's amazing source of information.
Is there like, Michael, is there something like with these token bound accounts, is it
going to change the way we are using NFTs or we are playing the games?
Are there some like use cases already, already or examples?
Um, yeah, there's some stuff out there, but, but first of all, yeah, appreciate that.
I'm definitely, definitely the big nerd.
I love all this technical stuff and doing all the EIPs and focusing on them for a long
time.
So yeah.
Um, yeah, actually bring that up is really interesting.
We've, we had a conversation with one of our potential future, uh, launch partners and
they're very interested in 6551 for a number of reasons.
So, um, I think it's highly likely that it's something that we even implement into this
platform and it's a really good use case actually for the achievements and the rewards, um, side
of things.
So the ability to, you know, imagine if you onboard to a game, you have a character or a
primary avatar or something, um, you might be able to start earning all your achievements
and rewards.
And instead of having to deposit that into another account, that's like, you know, tied
to you as a person and not your character or not your game, um, you can have rewards and
achievements and items that would actually go straight to your, your character's wallet,
um, using 6551.
So yeah, definitely some, some potential there and all kinds of fun things we can do that
we're, you know, we're thinking about.
That's cool, man.
Is that like one of the like thing that we also need to have to make the characters more
unique, maybe when we can travel from world to world, that we can take all this stuff,
all the rewards, all the achievements with us, that it's not just an ape now, but we
have all these things.
There is no shilling, man.
Now you shoot your own post.
We just wrote a post about cool, cool man, right?
So he, he's doing that.
What's the name of that marketing, you know, like, uh, subconscious or something like that.
You're using words to attract people to your post, man.
Uh, don't do it.
You know, I have the button ready, but man, it's already viral, you know, I don't need
to keep pushing that.
I'm just curious.
Yeah.
Now we, now we lost the question and we, you know, because I've always like tried to
think the use cases, like people say, like, it's a, your NFT now can have a wallet and
can have the stuff in it.
So I'm thinking what will, what this will allow us actually also in the near future.
Yeah.
The obvious one is like visual changes within the metadata that you'd be able to track on
chain.
So right now, I mean, it solves a really important use case.
Like if we look at, um, you know, heavy metal and legends of the Mara right now, um, especially
heavy metal, actually, you know, you equip all these items and right now it doesn't really
do anything.
It only happens in the game.
It doesn't change the visual display of the NFT, like on the marketplace or anything
like that.
Um, you can get away with doing that by like making metadata changes.
So you can change the, the API endpoint that Yuga controls and is centralized.
And, and then over time, OpenSeal pick up those metadata changes and then you can spot the
image out.
But, um, from a provenance and like blockchain perspective, we want this stuff on chain.
So I think if you could deposit items and stuff into your wallet, then you can go straight
to the chain and know exactly how you should like reassemble your, your NFT and, and how
it should be displayed.
So yeah, I think it's big for that.
And then the other piece is definitely like just the achievements and, um, like reputation
piece.
It could just be that if I say I earned like level 100 in some game, I want that accomplishment
to actually track me to another game and have interoperability there.
And maybe the other game can decide what they want to do with that.
They don't necessarily have to like directly translate my level, but they can give you
special perks or, you know, other types of things because you've leveled up to level
100 and in a different game.
Right.
So I think there's, yeah, a lot of cool stuff that you can do.
Man, it's not ERC 6551, uh, but, uh, you know, something like that is happening already.
Like if you own mutant or ape, you can get benefits in, in a heavy metal, right?
So, because you own the NFT.
So this can be really interesting in the future.
Uh, this probably not for you because you are not a, the gamer, you know, but, uh, I
believe for Micra and Nova, it can be really interesting.
I don't have any comment for that.
Okay.
I know you, I know you're standing on the, we just have like five more minutes in comedy
club and Aaron told me to say this.
Okay.
Uh, uh, okay.
Aaron, I need to, I need to read one more thing.
Um, guys, we will, we will continue after the billboard, uh, you know, uh, switch to the
DJing, but, uh, Aaron just gave me something to read here.
So I just took her out to dinner.
Now I have to layer two.
It's a polygon joke.
What's going on there.
I don't know, but, uh, thank you, Aaron.
I just read it.
Uh, and, uh, yeah, 50% people, uh, in the room left.
Uh, it worked.
It worked.
The comic clubs goes crazy now.
It's fucking insane.
I never seen that before.
Yeah.
It's so much fun.
I love that.
I loved it.
So, oh, I didn't tell you to say shit.
You asked for a joke.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I, I lie here a bit, Aaron, you know, for people that are here, here, but what, what is
your vision guys, actually, Micra and Nova, uh, uh, for the future, uh, of the ape coin
and, and payments in games, you know, where do you see, uh, the space going actually?
Well, I mean, for us, we have, I think we have a one liner in our AIP that is just ape
coin is the token that powers a majority of transactions and, um, payments within apps
and games in the future.
That's the, the obvious one.
Um, I, I think at a broader sense for me, I've been like pretty obsessed and nerding
out over NFTs and, and what they could be for games for a long time.
And, um, I can give you like a quick anecdote as to why, which is when I was younger playing
way too much world of Warcraft, I think I have like legitimately a year of play time of that
game that I've like been spending in the game, which is just absolutely insane.
Um, I leveled up, you know, a bunch of different characters and had a ton of different items,
like maxed out my PVE and my PVP and, and everything.
Um, and now 10 years later, I have absolutely nothing to show for that.
Um, so I think what this stuff enables is the ability to have provenance to, you know,
basically have your, your legacy of your, your gaming world and all of your on-chain
data.
And, you know, even all the insane amounts of money that you've spent on this stuff, um,
and or earned hopefully that too.
But, um, yeah, just to be able to have all that available for, for the future.
Maybe I can hand down to my kids, my avatar instead of my, my baseball cards.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
Like, uh, you know, imagine we never experienced anything like that in the, in the history of
mankind, right?
Like you can actually have digital, like if you look at an Apple watch, you know, they're
tracking everything you do.
You have a data, you know, since, I don't know, since you start using them.
Right.
So basically, uh, in 20, 30, 50 years, people can see your lifestyle, you know, your health
based on that.
And the same will happen on blockchain, right?
Like your kids.
Oh my God.
That's the, that's probably the bad, bad part in 2023 right now.
I hope they're not going to check it out, but if they check 2021, they'd be like, Oh,
our dad was crazy.
You know, so I think all the, all the accomplishments in the games, everything you collected, you
know, your avatar, uh, you know, they, they can inherit it and it's insane, you know, and
maybe if you become, you know, famous or, you know, recognizable, they can, they can continue
on that legacy, right?
Like with AI and everything.
So, uh, especially for, I think for artists, like musicians, actors, it can be absolutely
game changer and something totally new.
So like the future is really wild, like just thinking about it, what, what's possible with
the, you know, you have AI, uh, voice changers and everything, you know, like it's wild, man.
I'm just using that caption app and you know, it can immediately translate to other, other
languages and it syncs your lip to it.
Like it's lips to it.
So it's, it's insane.
So yeah, uh, I believe in that too, man.
And guys, we have one more minute in the club.
So if anyone wants to say something funny, Nova or Micah, or, or say bye, hi, whatever.
Uh, now is the time.
And then we keep going with the AIP.
Man, anytime you say, if anyone wants to say something funny, it means that everyone is
quiet, that's the number one rule.
Can't be put on the spot.
It's too hard.
And, and speaking of Leo, it's your turn to make a joke.
So if you want to come up here, uh, no, I'll, I'll just throw out there quick.
If you guys haven't read the proposal, would appreciate if you do, um, jump on the forum.
I think they posted a link up there.
Also, we have a really awesome video by Atari, um, at the damn show who, um, you know, if you
don't want to read, then you can watch that quick video and get another better understanding
of it.
Um, and yeah, we just appreciate your support, whether you vote for it or not.
Um, you know, give us your feedback.
Our DMS are open.
Um, yeah, let's make, let's make ApeCoin the token of the metaverse.
Let's go guys.
If you're in the club, check Micah and, uh, Nova, um, Twitter or X accounts.
Uh, and, um, yeah, let's keep going.
Thank you so much guys, uh, for joining us in a billow board.
We're not ending here on Twitter or X or what's the name of it.
And it was epic.
It was epic to see the avatars.
It was epic to see Aaron standing on my shoulders there.
Absolutely different experiences.
And I can't wait to actually host the show from metaverse, right?
Like we want to be on the other side, by the way, talking about the other side, Micah,
actually Micah, we should mention that, you know, it's very important.
What do you think beast?
Yes, we definitely do.
He has no idea, right?
Right now?
You know, I was actually, I was in a comedy club reading the comments and Aaron is extremely
funny right now.
So I don't think I can read it.
Yeah.
But Micah is actually advisor.
Can we say advisor or boss of other space?
Not, I don't know.
Oh, we are not in a tech advisor.
Tech advisor.
Let's go.
And other space is actually our sponsor.
They send us zero eat every week.
So big shout out to other space.
They're, they're starting in one hour.
So they've been very consistent with that.
I think they're sending zero eat for like a year already.
They are consistent like with their show.
So they have never missed a show since the first trip.
Absolutely love that.
It's inspirational.
And yeah, guys for the, for the, yeah, uh, Baron just kicked us, uh, Baron, Aaron just
kicked us out, uh, from the club.
Uh, and yeah, I don't know what's going on there.
So it was fun.
Uh, oh my God, what's happening.
This is really multitasking.
Like I need AI for that because that's crazy.
Uh, oh my God, it's wild.
But what's the guys, what's your idea for the metaverse?
Actually, we talk a lot about, uh, the other side legends of the Mara just, uh, just started.
How, how do you think, and how early are we, or how late are we, uh, what do you think?
I think we're still super early, but, um, I think it's starting to become a reality.
I think the, there's going to be, I think there will be two different types of metaverses.
One will be like a closed ecosystem, um, kind of like, you know, the Facebook of the world,
the, the meta trying to appropriate our term.
And then there will be the open metaverse, which will be the, um, the one that I think
that you guys trying to enable.
And you can see kind of an example of where that's headed.
Actually, if you, if you jump into heavy metal, um, and you guys have seen, or sorry, not
heavy metal, um, in legends of the Mara.
Now, if you jump in there and you go to the shattered battle, um, you'll see in the chest
that there's like all these different rewards across the whole ecosystem.
So if I beat a boss, um, you know, I can earn something with forgotten runes.
I can earn something for the upcoming serum city, um, all these different games out there.
And I think in my mind, that's starting to get us much closer to the, the idea of a
metaverse, which is I play one game and it has all kinds of benefits for all these other
games and all those assets are on chain.
Great example.
Absolutely love that.
Yeah, that's, that's correct.
Uh, also talking about, uh, the serum city, right?
Like, uh, mutant cartel, uh, and, uh, ape coin payments.
I think that, uh, that's great combo.
So are you in touch with them?
If it's not a secret, if it's secret, I have a, I have special sound for that.
Yeah, we're, we're in touch with them.
Um, my co-founder, one of my other co-founders, Nick Cerose actually works there.
He's a boss, mutant cartel.
So that's easy.
Love it.
Yeah.
So many games popping up recently.
Uh, it's wild.
Uh, it's crazy.
So I basically also spent like 22 hours of day playing.
And, uh, I think the season one of heavy metal ending today, right?
So, uh, we have another season.
Yeah.
We have another season going on.
So it's going to be crazy.
Yeah.
Uh, it's a lot.
It's a lot to pay attention to, but yeah, I'm, I'm really stoked about all this stuff
that's coming out and really stoked about serum city.
Um, I haven't seen anything.
I don't have any alpha, but, um, my, my brother's a whiz kid gamer.
So I imagine some of the efforts, um, they're going to be pretty incredible.
So looking forward to that.
Yeah.
I'm also really excited because, uh, you know, we've been waiting for some time, but
recently we have so many games to play and experience and, and, you know, it's always
easy to talk about stuff when, but when you get hands on it, you know, when you play it,
when you feel it, when you try it, it's absolutely different.
And so can also can't wait for serum city and other games to try it out, you know, to
see how it feels.
And also can't wait for the other, other side experience.
And, uh, I think there's going to be actually ApeFest, uh, will be hosted from other side
for people who can make it to Hong Kong.
So, uh, that's crazy, right?
Uh, that's something that we, uh, we didn't almost, uh, even think about, uh, last ApeFest
and now it's reality.
So like, and it's been only a year.
So this space is moving like crazy.
Yeah.
It's wild, man.
And it's always good to try all these games and experiences because you also see how the
technology moves on and how the things are changes and what is now possible.
Right.
And I think, you know, like everyone here right now, like we know it's a long game.
It's a journey basically.
So I think in a couple of years ahead, it's going to be just fucking insane when we see
how far we moved and, you know, like what were the steps, you know, how did it look like,
like five years ago?
And we will be laughing actually about like how early we were.
I can't find it.
Oh, we are not in the comedy club anyway, anymore.
It was nice.
It was, it was nice.
I love it, man.
It was real.
It was real.
I know.
I know.
I know.
Yeah, guys, I'm, I'm really excited about this Ape.
I think we need it.
Uh, we need tools for developers to make their life easier.
So, um, could you, could you share a bit about a workflow?
Let's say I'm a developer.
I have a game and I want to implement Apecoin.
So let's say your AIP pass.
So how it's going to make their life easier?
Yeah.
So it'll be, you go to a dashboard, um, similar to other, you know, pretty standard apps.
You sign in with your wallet.
We create all the blockchain stuff in the background for you.
As soon as you do that, um, you know, we deploy like a smart contract factory and all
these cool things that make it possible to just deploy your own contract.
And then you go to a dashboard to define which module you want to enable.
So you can choose, you want like an embedded wallet in your game.
Um, you want like an in-game store so that people can buy items.
You would take a box to turn that thing on and then you download a, basically like a template
for unity and you take that template and you plug it into your game and it connects, basically
creates a connection between our platform and your game.
And then, um, that's it.
All the blockchain stuff works in your game.
Wow.
That, that, that's amazing.
How much time does it take?
Like, uh, for, I don't, probably it's very individual, but, uh, is it like hours, days,
weeks, you know, if they want to implement it?
Yeah, it'll definitely depend on the complexity of what they're trying to do, but if you want
to just add a wallet and you want to enable, you know, payment for an item, um, you know,
we're, we're pretty confident.
It's going to take a day or two at most to get something like that plugged in and working.
Um, you know, we can't, we can't solve for how long it takes the developer to build their
game.
So that side of it's kind of out of our control, but yeah, the actual integration piece and
kind of connecting the two together should be pretty quick.
That's awesome.
Uh, do you think there's going to be use case also for creators like us or see, I see nada
in the audience, right?
So let's say we want to reward people, I don't know, doing something, uh, something like,
I think ape is doing right.
Uh, will there be something that we can use, uh, for our audience?
How to reward them using, uh, using your service?
Yeah, absolutely.
The achievements piece is not exclusive to games.
So, um, you know, if you have a website that you want to plug something into or, uh, maybe
even discord, which is something we, it's kind of in our backlog, um, it could definitely
be possible.
So yeah, we could, we could enable payments and like, you know, issuing rewards to people
in, uh, in the, in the crowd with our platform.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Uh, we did a lot of actually, uh, ApeCoin giveaways back in the day.
So, uh, we didn't track it.
We just, you know, like raise your hand.
We, we give you ApeCoin.
Uh, yeah, everyone's raising hand now, but yeah, I love it.
Uh, what about e-commerce that we mentioned earlier?
Uh, I, I think there's a, there's a plugin, like a Coinbase plugin for Shopify or something
like that.
Uh, I'm not sure guys, if you, if you know anything else, but, um, I think that would
be really amazing to have some, some plugin for Squarespace, Shopify that you can just plug
in, uh, use ApeCoin as a payment.
I don't know if it's already exists or if, if, uh, your service could be also solution
for that.
Yeah.
I know there is a plugin to enable payments, but I don't know if it's specific to ApeCoin.
So definitely something we'll look into.
Um, the platform itself would have like, uh, a code kit, a development kit that you could
plug into any website.
So if you had your own e-commerce store, then obviously you could also use it there.
That's great because I love no code solutions, right?
Uh, especially if you use Squarespace Wix or anything like that, it's easy to, you know,
handle.
So you just copy paste it there and you got, you got ApeCoin payments.
So yeah.
Yeah, it's a great idea.
It's on our, it's on our list.
Let's go.
Anything else important that you would like to mention guys that maybe we forgot to, to
talk about related to the AIP?
Um, you actually asked a question earlier to like, why should, why should game developers,
you know, uh, enable blockchain gaming?
I think another piece that's now we've talked about a ton is like the data piece, you know?
Um, so like in current games, for example, you don't have access to data, to player data
that happens inside your game only typically.
Like you have no idea what they're doing after, like after they leave your game.
I think, you know, with regards to like blockchain gaming, let's say if someone, let's say, you know,
connects a wallet or they take, you know, like an in-game asset that's a custodial wallet in-game
and export it to their own wallet, you're actually able to essentially kind of at that point get
access to additional data about that player and be able to kind of, you know, maybe more accurately
predict like, Hey, like here's the games that they play.
Here's like the additional data that we have on them.
And, you know, here's how we can, you know, use the data to be able to make their future experience
better, for example, or, so, I mean, there's definitely a big data piece as well that,
you know, um, the, and probably, I don't know if it's necessarily benefits the player,
it might just benefits the game developer, but, um, the data piece is definitely nice
for game developers, you know, because that's, you know, especially, I think now, you know,
as, you know, uh, cost acquired users, you know, software started going higher and higher every
time.
And if you can say, Hey, like, you know, I only want to target, let's say, you know, only, you know,
users that only have like these, these NFTs, for example, uh, well, what they can actually do
that. Um, you know, with web two, you can just be like, Hey, like, you know, only give me users
to have, you know, $50,000 in their bank account. Cause you, you don't have that financial data.
That's true. That's true. I think that's something that Micah mentioned, right? You can also target,
uh, users that are not profitable traders. So basically whole room can be targeted. Uh, yeah, love it.
Yeah. And probably, probably those are the best customers, you know, because they'll just, you know,
Yeah. Those with gambling.
That was the alpha probably. That was the alpha for the metaverse, man. I was really thinking about
the other side experience, but never thought about this, but I will, I think that's an amazing idea
actually. Right. Like, uh, uh, targeting users, but yeah, I'll stop here. I think so. But yeah,
I think it's really good. They're also very loyal, right? I showed that even though they're losing
money every single day, they are still here. Yeah. I think that part's pretty, pretty important.
Honestly, we're like one of the best, you know, 10,000 true fans you could possibly imagine.
Every single one of us is still here just spending more money. So yeah, tapping into that dedicated
fan base. That's pretty. And our, our pain tolerance is gone, man. Like
And on the serious note, like, is, is there something with this retention that maybe like we,
we are an example that we actually, you know, stay here and we're very loyal and love the space. Like,
can this be with NFTs and the in-game, you know, NFTs that people will actually stay longer, play,
play more, you know, and be more loyal with the games? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it could be that
that's actually like, you know, a deep psychological fundamental thing about NFTs. It's, it's because we
own it and we've, we've put time into it. So when you feel like you have more ownership over something,
you're, you're more likely to stick around and stay dedicated to it. So yeah, I think that's highly
likely. Yeah. I think a perfect example of that is actually, is actually a heavy metal, you know,
like you have, you know, guys spending, you know, hours a day cleaning a robot poop off tiles, you know,
just because of that ownership. And if you guys, these weren't NFTs, I really doubt you guys would
actually, you know, be doing this. You're talking about me right now. Yeah. That's me. A hundred
percent with eight forges. It's amazing. You know, it was, it was wild. I cleaned so
many tiles so many times. So yeah, I'm really happy that there, there are no like, uh, analytics,
like an iPhone, right? Like you see how much time you spend in the game because then,
then it would be crazy. Yeah. Like, are you, are you having like a bad dream grateful or like,
you just like, you know, like, and I'm walking through, you know, like a park and all of a sudden
like a robot up here, just like takes a shit on you or something, you know, and you're just covered in oil.
You find that it's so much at this point that, you know, like, if I hunt through dreams.
Yeah. A hundred percent. You know, I think it's going to run one more year and then you're going to
receive right for your ape grateful, a soulbound token that shows how many shit you clean the past
two years. I hope they were tracking that. That's a good data point. That would be really funny. Guys,
are there any games right now that you are really excited, uh, about, you know,
I mentioned rec league, the heavy metal, there's another season, uh, today or tomorrow. Uh,
what else we have legends of the Mara, uh, and probably more and more is coming.
Anything that you are really exciting these days.
Yeah, definitely excited about all the web three games. Um, you know, serum city,
I think will be super cool and, um, legends of Mara. It's going to be really fun to watch how that
evolves. I think once that turns into a full fledged game, it's going to be pretty fun. So
definitely looking forward to that one, but outside of web three, I've actually been playing
a bunch of Diablo. So yeah, I think like for me, I mean, looking at web three, there's actually a
few, I think they're really cool. They're kind of building right now. Uh, I'm excited. I'm
excited about shrapnel, which is going to be, you know, a first person shooter built on the blockchain
building on AVAX. So I'll be actually available at the game store pretty soon.
I'm following MapleStory by Nexen. You know, they are, they are coming to web three as well.
And they're building, you know, like not just about their game, but also like an entire, you know,
like SDK kit to be able to kind of build experiences inside, inside MapleStory for web three.
Um, I'm also following, uh, over there, which actually just announced recently,
which is like a metaverse by Krafton. Um, for those of you who don't know, Krafton published pub G,
you know, so, um, they are building, you know, over there and that's launching pretty soon.
I think like, uh, soft launched this December. Um, so definitely go. I mean, also, I am looking
at also sugar town a little bit, which is Zynga's, you know, um, game that just came out, or yeah,
I guess you can call it like a, you know, set of games. It does actually look a lot like a reskin
dead games that they published before with just like a web three added, but, um, you know,
it could still be fun. I'm not sure. Wow. That's a lot of games. I'm actually also playing Diablo,
but, uh, I like to own it, you know, so I still playing the Diablo two from 1999, you know,
I have a CD, uh, so absolutely love that game. I also bought Diablo four, but I haven't played it.
So, uh, it's on my roadmap a hundred percent, but yeah, so much, so much fun in this space,
actually, you know, uh, and, uh, and so much to talk about, right? Like, uh, so,
so many crazy games and everything. So even in the bear market, like, uh, we're doing quite good,
I think.
Yeah. I mean, I mean, also, if you found like a web to market,
there's definitely some cool games. I mean, there's so many games coming out now. There's,
you know, it was like, I just downloaded, downloaded Baldur's Gate, which I haven't been,
uh, three, which I haven't played yet, but that's on my list.
I don't, this morning I actually downloaded Counter-Strike two from steam. Um,
and I guess that game has like, I don't know, they're not NFTs, but like,
you can still buy, uh, loot boxes and be able to sell them afterwards if you hit like rare ones,
you know, make money, but, uh, Counter-Strike definitely is like, I think, you know,
like greatest shooter of all time. Um, yeah, making money. That's a great actually point,
uh, because there, there, there's a lot of discussion about, uh, the economy, uh,
about, uh, like, yeah, yeah. Like the economy in the, in the metaverse, in the virtual worlds,
right? So, um, with your proposal, actually, uh, we'd be able to use ApeCoin. Uh, do you believe,
or do you think that really there's going to be like virtual economy inside the metaverse that,
I know it's already happening. I remember also back in the day talking about Diablo,
right? Like you are able to buy stuff, uh, from some kind of forum. Uh, I know it's still happening
in, you know, CS, uh, Counter-Strike game and, and many others. So do you think that people will
be able to actually work in the digital worlds and make money by doing that?
I think we've already seen it happen. I mean, I think with Axie Infinity and, um, you know,
now Heavy Metal, there's multiple different guilds in Heavy Metal that are running, you know,
multi-million dollar operations for farming and stuff. So, you know, we're going to see
that with Legends of Mara too. And then I'm sure a lot of other games, um, I think in parallel,
um, there's a lot, the trading card game, there's a potential for that too. So I think it's possible.
It's definitely one of those things that is really interesting. I'm, I'm on the fence as to whether
or not I actually am for it. I think it's, it's like ready player one. It's like semi-dystopian,
but, um, obviously it's also a huge benefit for a lot of people. And some people would rather,
you know, do nothing but play video games. So I'm, I'm, I'm all for it for the people who are
really into it and I'm sure I'll be, I'll be doing plenty of it myself. So yeah,
I think it's definitely a realistic future.
Amazing. Nova, what's your take on this?
Yeah. I mean, I think like anything, you know, like, so I guess I have like mixed thoughts on it.
Um, I think in general, like as a gamer, um, you know, games aren't designed for gamers to make
money. Uh, they're designed, you know, like, I think NFTs are more about like, you know, ownership.
And if you're really good at the game, you know, if you get an early enough or you're, you know,
you're incredibly talented at the game, uh, you probably will make a profit, right? Like, uh,
maybe like top, I don't know, 1% makes like, you know, most of the money,
maybe top 10% make some, the other 90% is pay to play, you know? And that's okay. Um,
because I think for 90%, you know, they spend like, let's say a hundred bucks,
maybe by the time they're done, maybe to get like $20 back, but $20 back is still better than zero back,
you know, and that's already valuable. Um, and, uh, being able to be, you know, kind of be involved
in the economy of the game, be able to create and user generate content. You can monetize,
uh, they can trade with others and that's pretty powerful.
Yeah, that's such a good point, Nova. I think it's going to be, it's going to be really challenging,
but I think we'll figure it out. And it's going to be critical that we figure out a balance between
enabling these types of economies, um, while still maintaining like really fun gameplay and,
you know, maintaining the reason we're all here, which is actually just to play games and,
and own our stuff like, like Nova said. So yeah, I hope we get it right. And I,
I think we will. And then you're probably going to see a range of, or a spectrum of different
games. Some people maybe go to specific games pretty much just to make money. And,
and then there are going to be other games that have a mix and maybe some games that have none of
it. So yeah, it's, it's going to be cool. Yeah. It's gotta be cool. A hundred percent.
I cannot wait. I also want to add one more thing, guys, you know, um,
Captain Trippy, and you also have that tweet in the, in your AIP. Um, you know, when he tweeted,
he, he showcased the Harry, uh, forge, uh, IP ecosystem up, right. And you can see there,
you know, you guys are there, by the way, you know, uh, I see Nana here. Um, also other space
there are many services products, um, are there. So it would be really cool to use this, uh, you know,
that we can, uh, use ApeCoin in the virtual worlds, in the games and the e-commerce. So, uh,
that we all work together and, and create like a platform for everyone. Uh, now even better with
made by apes, right? So, uh, that would be really cool that we all can use ApeCoin as a payment
method for our products, uh, virtual, uh, or digital or physical. That, that would be amazing.
Yeah, it's a great point. I mean, that's a good distinction too. The term metaverse is,
is broad and I think you're right. It encompasses all of those things for sure. So we're not just
talking about gaming here. We're definitely talking about just the future of the, you know,
the digital economy and, and our lives on the internet and also off and how, how the two sort
of like interact with each other. So absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. There was also that study I just painted
up about 10 things Gen Z wants to experience in a digital world or game. And the number one was to
my surprise making money. The number two was meeting new people. So if that is true, it means
that we are in a pretty good place.
100% man. I read this and I was clapping, you know, I was like, hell yeah, let's go, let's go.
We just early, we just need more games, but I know you guys working on that. I think that point also
that like ApeCoin is supposed to be a token for the metaverse. And it, what it, what it means,
we need, we need more, you know, more brands, more companies using actually ApeCoin. Otherwise,
we can't build open metaverse with ApeCoin. So I'm cheering for you. I, I'm happy that like what you
guys doing, I think it makes so much sense. And if it is hard right now, and if it takes months for
developers to integrate ApeCoin for the game, and you guys can at some point make it within a
weeks or even days, that would be fucking amazing.
Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, we're, we're really looking forward to it. We're going to
absolutely give it our all for sure. And, you know, we've got a lot of experience on a bunch of
different products we built, but a lot of blockchain experience and, you know, a really solid team. So
I think we can make it happen. At the very least, we're going to move the needle forward
pretty substantially. And yeah, just make all this stuff a lot easier. So appreciate that.
Love it. Love it. And I got a DM from Nana and he wants to do 10,000 ApeCoin giveaway. So
Nana, go ahead, man. Welcome here.
You get ApeCoin!
Yeah! What's up?
What's up? What's up, everyone? Dude, I was just watching the Grateful show in the Metaverse
and Monaverse at the Board Below Comedy Club. So that was cool. It was dope to hear Micah and Nova,
aka Leo, just talk about the AIP, which is super exciting. You guys, these, these are some big
brains up here on stage right now. You got Micah and Leo solving some of the blockchain problems.
But, yo, I do like have some genuine questions around the AIP.
First off, I want to say, like, I'm super excited about it. There's not too many AIPs that come around
that, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the, you know, through the campaigns of
all the special counsel and all of that. I'm like, yeah, you know, I believe in this and we need to
have more ApeCoin syncs and game developers and we need to onboard game developers and all that.
It's like all great, you know, nice dreams and vision that you have there. However,
how are you going to do that? And you guys are actually proposing something that actually can be
a part of the solution and may not be the full part of the solution, but it's going to be a significant
part that can help along the way, in my opinion. So I'm definitely in favor of this.
Um, my question was more pertained to, uh, you know, like, I think it's great. Like the fact that
we're in, in web three, I'm sorry, I'm going back to context again. The fact that we're in web three,
we're also, uh, really familiarized with like the value of kind of our network. You know, if people are
using IP, like let's extend it to board Ape Yacht Club, which we know can extend to the ApeCoin
community, but like you see a lot of people using IP, a lot of people in the community supporting it.
Uh, and we're almost like a decentralized brand. And so I see a rewards platform being very helpful
because, Hey, if you're supporting this person in the ecosystem, then you should have benefits or
know about these other people in the ecosystem. And I think that's great for games, businesses,
companies, brands. Uh, and I think that's, that's amazing that that that's kind of baked into this, uh,
innately. I think my, my question was more so around like one of the larger problems, uh, with,
with like L2 scalability. And I'm curious, like, how difficult would that be for you guys to,
you know, if, if there was an Ape chain that, you know, eventually became developed or a separate L2,
how would you guys be able to adapt?
Well, first off, thanks, Nana. I appreciate you. Definitely appreciate the kind words. Um,
you're the man. Um, we, so it wouldn't be, I think the key, the key point there is whether or not
the Ape chain or the infrastructure is already there. If that's the case, you know, that's the hard part.
So we can rally people around, you know, supporting, um, one of these chains or multiple of them and
being able to bridge to it. Um, and then the complexities of the bridging to it. Once those
pieces are done, um, then it's really simple. Actually, uh, you pretty much just like you swap
out an endpoint. Um, and things still just work. I think the only really complex part is more on like
the user side. So if I have a wallet designed, um, or, you know, I'm really used to using ETH,
you have to deal with the problem of figuring out how to get your ETH onto that layer two, um,
to pay for the transactions. So you're in this weird state where you pretty much have to have
like two tokens. You got to have the token on the chain that's going to pay for the transaction fees.
It's like an ETH layer two, and then you got to have Apecoin layer two. Um, and so wrapping your
brain around that and trying to figure out how to make sure you like have enough of that layer two ETH
to pay for transactions and all that is the hard part. Um, but thankfully there are a bunch of companies,
um, and you know, some of the architecture that we're doing internally that I think will make a lot
of this significantly easier to the point where if we have the Ape chain, if we have Apecoin bridged,
it's a matter of just like swapping out an endpoint and then using those same
wallet abstraction things that I talked about before.
Dude. Awesome. Um, and I understood 100% of everything you just said,
but, um, it's bullish. It's okay. It's good. It's good. It all means good.
That's my follow up. Easy. Yeah. Easy. All right. Next one.
Yeah. I mean, I mean like really the key is like to talk really fast and very technical.
So just, you know, people get confused and just assume you're smart.
Oh, you know what? Yeah. That's all I do. It's all, it's a facade. I just say all these smart things.
Look, I was at the three XP gaming conference and I look over, you know, when, when I first saw
Mike or he was actually in front of this big ass camera with the lady from coin desk, holding a mic
up to him being interviewed, I know this guy has some big brains, but so that's, that kind of leads
me to my next question. You know, even told me and correct me if I'm wrong, you, you, you,
you did build one of the first decks is on Ethereum.
I did. Technically you could say it was the first if you discount this platform called ether
Delta, but yeah, I did. It was called radar relay.
Right. So my question is what, you know, this whole con there, there's a few different solutions
that need to be solved. Like you guys are focused on, you know, putting this proposal up to build up
this, um, you know, this, this tech, this stack of, um, that that's going to help a coin payments
and rewards. What about the whole solution that Yuga had actually, you know, they, they put out that
tweet after the other side meant to say, Hey, I really think the ape coin community should start
thinking about, you know, creating its own chain or, or something along those lines. I'd have to look up
the tweet. I know, you know what I'm referring to because in the comments of it, you actually replied
to it, but, um, just considering the whole thing of about like having a layer two so that we can have
you know, very cheap transactions, quick transactions, something that's scalable so we can, you know,
get great use cases out of a coin, uh, in that matter. How come
you guys aren't focused on maybe leading that charge?
Um, you mean leading the charge of creating an app chain basically like a, uh, a Yuga lab specific
chain. Um, well, first of all, it's just, it requires like an insane amount of capital. I mean,
most of the companies that build their own blockchains, you raise like hundreds of millions
of dollars, do these gigantic token sales. And, um, you know, they're just like these behemoths
of a company to run, um, or alternative, like something like the optimism stack, which is something
that's fully open source and is, it requires like a massive dedicated team of, you know,
cryptographers and people distributed systems, like really, really smart people. Um, so yeah,
it requires an insane amount of resources. So I think that's number one, we wouldn't,
we probably wouldn't want to go to the ApeCoin DAO, uh, to propose that idea. Um, you know,
it probably costs the entire ApeCoin DAO's treasury, if not more to do that solution. And then I think the
second is, at least for me personally, this is definitely like my own opinion, but I think that
a layer two is a better solution because the network effects are much better. A lot of us are,
you know, pretty, um, sort of like ingrained in the Ethereum culture. And, um, we've seen that like
a lot of different projects that tend to move away from the Ethereum ecosystem tend to have not a great
outcome. So I think it makes the most sense to focus there, whether or not Ethereum is the best
technological solution. I, I don't know if that's really true. There's probably better options, but
I think it's just because it's where the community is at. It's where the network effects are at. And
it makes a lot of sense to stick to it. So I, I'm bigger on the L2 solution as opposed to a specific
chain personally, but yeah, we've, we've talked about, uh, building on base too, which is, you know,
becoming more and more relevant in, in the timelines and a lot of builders and developers are starting to
use that, including friend tech, which they're seeing a lot of success with. But yeah, I was
curious about that because if, if you go or, you know, if they're kind of leaning on the ape coin
community to start thinking about that, I'm thinking to myself like, well, who the fuck is going to step
up? You know, like I have no idea what that entails to be like, yo, let's make an L2. It's like,
you know, are we waiting for these larger companies to come in and be able to take something on and,
you know, figure something out like that. But you, you definitely gave some more insight to
kind of what it takes and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I, I mean, I think it always makes sense not to like tackle all the
problems yourself. And I think even for ape coin itself, they should treat it that way. It's,
you know, it makes sense to partner with things that are already out there and solutions that
people are gravitating towards. So base could be one of them. There's a chain called Linnea,
which they kind of snuck in. I think it's kind of a consensus product, but if you guys may or may not
have even noticed, it's number two in MetaMask when you go into the blockchain dropdown. So
they're picking up momentum and have a lot of promise. And they're also another Ethereum layer
too. So yeah, there's a bunch of things that I think could make sense to, to build on top of,
as opposed to starting from scratch. Yeah, that's a funny, like, it's, you know,
I actually saw on MetaMask, like something called Linnea. And I was like, the hell is that? Like,
I just didn't know what it was. Mike mentioned that. Yeah, it's like another solution. Just
just launched, you know, a new blockchain that launched. I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'll check
it out. But yeah, so it's actually, I mean, if you actually open MetaMask, actually, if you actually
go to like the dropdown on the very left, the top of corner, you'll see there one called
Predator, Ethereum, Linnea, Mainnet. Guys, do comments. Or Beast. Yeah, I just wanted to say,
I swear that I also checked it out today. And I was like, what the fuck is here on the second place?
So we have kind of the same way of either, either thinking or like doing stuff.
Yeah, yeah, they really stuck that in there. I haven't had a chance to really dig into it. But
maybe I'll, maybe I'll write a blog post on it. Let's go. Please do, because I have no idea what
you're talking about still. No, I'm just kidding. No, you need to just L1, L2, L3, L5, base,
ApeCoin. Yeah. Now you, you sound like a pro and everyone, everyone got it. So
Nana, you can try. But by the way, your sound is better. What happened, man? Did you buy a new mic or?
I literally have the phone right up to my mouth. What the? Man. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. The phone's
probably more expensive than the mic, but yeah, the sounds just better, man. I don't know what happened.
Guys, I'm in the comments. I just want to go through. I start with the first one. Put us on
your customer list, the Mad Queen. So yeah, I think that's no problem. And Christo actually has a
has a question. Is ApeCoin the future of transactions or will something else come along? I think that's
something we talk about, right? Like we talking about, and now I got to be the clever one, the
the L2, you know, so we don't have to pay such high transactions fees. What do you think about it?
What's the future of transactions?
All transactions? I hope they're not all just ApeCoin. I think that would probably not be a good
thing. But for game transactions and some of these platform transactions and for the Yuga ecosystem,
yeah, I hope that ApeCoin is the one and it sticks around since it's already here and has a bunch of
a bunch of potential.
Epic. Yeah, guys, I think the future is bright. We just have to go through this crazy building
period. But I absolutely loved to, you know, talk to everyone here, see people in the audience,
everyone who tried to push this space, like, for example, other space in 20 minutes, right?
No, no, are you doing show today? Or are you taking break after, after like,
we don't take no break?
I know, man.
Exactly, man. Let's fucking go.
I was waiting for you to dunk on me. So I absolutely loved it. No fucking breaks.
But I got Kristo on stage. Kristo, go ahead, man. How are you doing? And yeah, I know you have a
question. So go ahead, man. Good, good. How's everyone here? I just wanted to follow up to that,
to that response. I'm sure all of us have, have experienced this where, you know, when,
when ApeCoin first dropped, it was what, $13, $14. And then it dropped all the way down and it
dropped some more, it fluctuated around six, and then it drops down to like one or wherever it is now,
$1 equivalent. What did everyone thoughts, everyone's thoughts about that? I know everyone wants
ApeCoin to skyrocket and, and, and suddenly you can make tons of money off of it again.
But if we want ApeCoin to be a transactional player, you can't have it be worth so much.
In my opinion, it should be about a dollar or less if you're going to start having true micro
transactions. You know, it's, it's not like Ethereum, it's not like Bitcoin and it shouldn't be.
Those are, those are, you know, long-term investments. ApeCoin is, is, if it's going
to be transactional, that means you're doing it all the time. So I'm just wondering what you guys
think about, about that. And do you think it should go back up? I think it's personally should
stay down or go lower if you're going to truly be having these, you know, hundreds or thousands or
hundreds of thousands of, of transactions daily.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll start off by saying NFA, but I'm going to give the answer that most people
in the crowd maybe don't want to hear. And that's that I totally agree with you. Yeah. I think the,
I think the token needs to be pretty cheap in order to enable micro transactions and be a useful
currency inside games. Um, if it's skyrocketed back up to $30, I think it could make it harder to use.
And, um, you know, then you're talking about having to use like really small denominations
inside the game and stuff like that, you know, makes it harder. So yeah. What is the Satoshi of,
of ApeCoin actually? How do we call like 0.05 ApeCoin? Do we call it somehow?
Hmm. That's a good question. If we don't have that. Curtis, maybe you can call it Curtis or something.
There you go. Yeah. Because maybe, maybe we do all the, the apes, you know,
all the species become like orangutan, like monkey, chimp.
Maybe it can be like a mutant something and all mutants get actually airdrop and it goes
directly into their wallet. I think the lowest fraction should definitely be called DMT.
But I'm saying this because I would probably be happier if we figure out how can we, you know,
use something like Curtis or orangutan or DMT then going ApeCoin to like a lower, right? So
Christo, if ApeCoin is $100 and we still can use something like 0.005 ApeCoin, I would be happy.
I'm not going to lie. All right. You know what? Like, like there is something to, you know,
if it, if it's, but it has to be almost like a stable coin at that point though. You can't,
if it's a hundred dollars, it needs to stay a hundred dollars. It can't, it can't be like,
you know, up and down all the time. I think, yeah, that's a good point.
Go ahead, Micah. Sorry. Oh, just, yeah. No, I think that's a good point. I mean, it's,
it's less about like what it's less about the value that it's at more about the fluctuation and
the price. That's the issue for sure. I was just going to agree with that,
Crystal. That's, that's the key right there. And I'm, I'm curious as a follow-up,
you know, with in-game transactions, currently there's the ability to use
like a soft currency, like mist or gears, you know? And I guess one of the benefits
for sticking to that method is once you purchase those gears, uh, there's no way to kind of like
get out of it. That's a benefit for the actual game maker. So, um, what are your thoughts on that?
Like, why would they, like, someone want to use ApeCoin for the microtransactions
if you are a game developer? And, you know, if, if you can allow for purchasing,
you know, a soft currency for your in-game, uh, as, as in-game currency, uh, using ApeCoin,
Yeah, I guess you have to align on the definition of what microtransaction means, but I mean,
I think you're right there. There's the option to use something else. Uh, but yeah, no, go ahead,
Crystal. I was just going to say, like, I think from, from my experience, you know, I've been gaming
for 35 years. Uh, I think consistency is king. If you give too many options, people are going to have,
you know, uh, transfer burnout very quickly. If it's going to be ApeCoin, keep it ApeCoin. If it's
going to be ApeCoin and gears or ApeCoin and this other thing, it needs to just be those things.
Because if, if I have to jump through 20 hoops to get to where I want, I can actually hit purchase,
I'm just not going to do it. Yeah, that's fair. I can see that. I mean, I think unless it's,
you know, it's got to be really, really simple, really easy to use the idea of like buying gears.
If I know that ApeCoin works in every game, but then there's an additional step once I'm in the
game to like buy the local, you know, game local currency. I don't, I don't necessarily hate that.
The lock-in I could see being a benefit from, from the game developer's perspective. But
in that scenario, like, like Nana said, um, I find it actually a little annoying. I would want to be
able to like get back out of it. If I changed my mind, maybe I have to do that at like a discount.
Right. So I like, I eat some cost, but I think I should still be able to like turn it back into ApeCoin.
Yeah. No, I agree. Because like, if in heavy metal, like if, if one thing can change, like for those
crates, like, let me earn some gears or something because those crates suck. And then like, let me,
let me convert some gears back to ApeCoin, you know? But yeah, I think it would make a better user
experience if it was just ApeCoin that did all of this. I didn't have to convert it to any sort
of soft currency, like Myst or anything like that. But, um, but yeah, that's kind of where
I was just thinking about, like from a game developer standpoint, like it seems that there's
a big benefit to lock someone in once you convert it. And so I was curious about your standpoint on
that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, if, if anyone played World of Warcraft when the Burning Crusade
came out, they first introduced, uh, an in-game token that, you know, you couldn't get anywhere
else. You couldn't buy it with your money. You couldn't farm it. You couldn't do anything. You
had to kill specific enemies to get this, this token that then you could use to purchase things from a
vendor, uh, in the game. And that changed over time. I think two or three years later is when they
opened up the microtransaction store within, within the Blizzard app, uh, and in, in the game. And so now
you could bypass that step of having to take the time to farm these things. Now you could just go pay
money for them. And I think it, it, while financially for Activision Blizzard, it was a huge success for
the player, individual players. It created that pay to win scenario where traditional gamers outside of
Web3, uh, uh, they abhor this. They hate it. Paying to win in any game is going to instantly get your game
to fail. And I, I think that's something that, that you go and anyone else that is, that is doing
transactions within, within their game is going to struggle with because, you know, if you want
traditional gamers, MMO players or whatever else to come into this platform, as soon as they see
somebody being able to, to purchase a win or purchase stats or purchase items that are going to give an
advantage over somebody else, uh, they're, they're going to turn off instantly. It's just the mentality
that, that most traditional gamers have. I think, uh, it was a few years ago. Actually, I, I, I saw a guy,
he was like 16 years old and he got, uh, his, uh, father's credit card and he was spending $1,000
on Clash Royale every month. And I was like, this is unbelievable. So I asked him, Hey man,
do you have more friends around you that spending such amount of money? And he was like, yeah, we spent
like, I have friends spending like 200, 300, 500, even more dollars from their parents' credit card.
So I definitely think, uh, we need, uh, we need to make it easier, uh, for them to, you know,
for the kids to get into the ApeCoin because they are heavy spenders, you know? So that's the alpha,
maybe Micah, you need to, you know, you need to onboard kids probably.
Yep. Yep. Maybe you have to be careful about that from, from a legal perspective.
Not financial advice guys. Anyway, I'm not in the U S I'm not in Europe. I'm in the international
waters right now. What are you trying to do to me? Well, I got a quick comment on what Christo said.
I mean, I, I see where you're coming from and I have that same impression, especially when,
uh, mobile gaming started to really kick off, you know, and then as mobile gaming evolved,
we started seeing even more in game transactions and micro transactions, which I think really helped
shape the most lucrative model right now, which is free to play. And, you know, when you have like
the top 2% of, you know, players, actually the ones contributing to the revenue, it's,
it's like a really interesting model that I think is prime for disruption, disruption at this point.
And this is kind of like just tying back into like true ownership, uh, using blockchain,
uh, working in the player into the economy of the game. Those are some of the fundamental things that
could actually change that, that business model. And, uh, you know, also feed into the interoperability
between the games and applications. And so I'd love to see this, something like this be available
to where I have an easy way, uh, like an easy dashboard that I can go through and whatever
app or game I'm developing, I can actually work in this currency and then figure out ways to give rewards
back to the people that are actually using this. And so, yeah, I, I agree with you, Chris. So it's
going to forever be like something that's going to be a huge challenge when you insert paying for
something in a game. But I also think like that's, that's what's, uh, really exciting about what's,
you know, what we're primed to disrupt as well. Um, in the sense of ownership, dude, I think,
I think even us having this conversation is light years beyond what, uh, uh, game developers from 10
years ago had available to them. They didn't know any better. They were just like, yeah,
let's turn on some, some credit card transactions. What's what could go wrong? You know, they,
they didn't have the foresight to think how huge that was going to become. And we're talking about
it before the game has even been played one time. And I think that's going to, that's a game
changer, whichever direction it goes. Right.
Yeah. And thank you guys. Thank you, Micah and, uh, Nova for answering those questions. I'm
going to dip and thanks grateful beast. And I'm not sure if Tino's there. Do you know,
it's actually shoot a photo shooting something. I don't know. Uh, he, he's like, uh, having some,
uh, side hustle right now. I don't know what he's photo shooting,
but he's actually on a photo shoot right now. So he's trying to become the next Fabio.
It's something like a friend tech, uh, but starting with all. So I don't know what's that
platform, but he's there. Uh, there are some micro payments.
Yeah. Not in Apecoin, but, uh, we maybe get there. So guys, I also watched your,
your show yesterday in billboard. It was so much fun. So good. So have fun in other space today.
Uh, I will try to join two, uh, guys. They're starting in eight minutes. So hop in there.
And, uh, I see a bump. Uh, go ahead, man. I see your hand.
Yeah. You guys, what's up your legends. Um, I just love this, this Twitter chat so much,
the energy that I'm greeted with and here's just top notch every time. So giving you all your,
your flowers, but, um, I just want to hop on the, like the game stuff really quick because
I remember working with one of my business partners and every single day,
this little dude, his neighbor would come over and ask for V bucks. He'd be like,
Hey man, can you buy me some V bucks? And like that literally every day, this kid would come
and do that. And, um, uh, you know, we dove into it and we're like, okay, what is this kid asking
about? And like, we did all this research and it's so funny because I feel like in-game currency is
inherently important. I don't know whoever like thought of it, but whoever did is a genius because
it almost detaches, detaches the user from the actual expenditure, right? Like the actual money
amount. So I were able to spend like, you know, this internet money. We're like,
I just dropped like four grand on something. You don't really realize it, but you did. So
I think that's like inherently part of video games is this need for, if you are going to have a,
like a cost basis, you need to be able to, first of all, make it fun enough and also make it low
cost enough that the user is willing to do it and has the ability to pay for it, or at least knock
on their neighbor's door and ask them for some, some V bucks to do it. And, um, the other part of it,
that I guess is I've heard a lot of people talking about how like you guys focusing up as being like
a game development studio. And I like, this is my thought on this. I like, if they are,
I would tell them focus on creating a platform where creators can come and develop their own games,
because that's truly what I think is needed with the app stores and all of these like token gated
gardens, if you will, not even token gated, just like gated gardens. Um, it's almost impossible
to see the type of return that you could potentially see in web three in web two.
And what I mean by that is like, if you are a game, like, you know, a game developer and you
create, um, you know, easy in-app purchase game that you can play and have fun with and whatever,
it's crazy. The amount of hoops you have to go through to get that onto that actual platform,
whether it's Apple or Google, whatever it is. And then on top of that, after you go through all
those hoops, you then have to split a very large portion of whatever profits you're making because
it's on their platform. Now I've talked to some very much smarter people than myself, let's just
say. And when they talk about these things, like that is one of the things that they, they consistently
across the board bring up is when you give individuals the ability to create what they
want to create, let's not get it twisted. There's going to be some weird stuff out there, folks, but
that's just what it is. That's culture. That's the internet. Like we don't all have to go to
the websites. Right. So you don't have to go to that area, but the fact that somebody can create
that, I feel like is sort of the, almost some of the ethos of web three, in my opinion. And
I think that really what you guys trying to do, in my opinion, I don't know an apes, bro. I'm not a
big Yuga holder or anything like that. But from my perspective, I think they're trying to build,
I guess, systems and mechanics out that they can then hand over to developers and say, Hey,
we have this sort of software development of gaming. We have this type of gaming and this
type of gaming. If you want to take these tools and apply them to the other side and build freely,
you can do so. And when you foster that type of building and, you know, somebody's building
something on this plot and then somebody else is building something completely different,
but somehow they find each other and they mesh and build something even crazier. That's the true
beauty of when I think web three wins. And I don't know, I think in-game currencies are very,
very important. But as far as the eight coin being that one at all, I agree. I think you need to keep
it consistent across the board because the moment you start switching it up 10 times, it just gets,
it gets like old. You're like, all right, cool. Yeah, I'm, I'm over this. So I think that's a wise note,
but yeah, that's kind of my take. I think that, uh, eight coin should definitely be it. And I think
if they are able to do a simple transaction where, you know, you're getting, you spend like 10 eight
coin, you get like a hundred, whatever in-game currency where that's gears or missed any one
of those two, but making it consistent across the board in the ecosystem, I think is an important
play. So I appreciate y'all. And that's just my, my piece that I want to drop on you guys.
Grateful piece. Y'all are legends and all the speakers up here really appreciate your input.
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, man. So many great points. Hey, bomb, uh, uh, loved it.
Loved it. Yeah. We, I think we have a way to go, right? But, uh, we slowly getting there step by step.
So if you look like a year ago, what was happening in the space, I think we are in so much better
position right now, right now with everything that's happening. Uh, also a bomb, I had a, I had
a custom intro for you, but, uh, you are quicker to hop on stage. So I'll play it quickly here,
you know, before we wrap up, because I think it's important, you know, custom intros are
the alpha of, uh, uh, X spaces. So this one is for you, man.
Let's back into it, man.
C4 has been successfully activated. Bomb detonation countdown successfully started.
Yep. Welcome on stage. Let's go. Oh, shit. A bomb dropping bombs on the stage. That's the alpha.
Yeah. I absolutely love today's chat, guys. Uh, Micr and Nova, you are such legends. I, I really,
I really can't wait when this AIP goes live, you know, so we can vote on it. Keep us updated guys.
If you want to stay in touch, click on Micr, Micr and Nova's profile, give them a follow, uh,
check what they doing. There's also, there are so many pinned tweets, uh, or where are all the tweets
bees? I thought you pinned the Atari. Oh, it's there. It's there. I wasn't swiping. I wasn't swiping
enough. I see Atari. He did such a great job explaining it. Even if you are not like genius
brain, you can understand it from that video. So I think it's really helpful, especially for me.
And yeah, uh, beast, uh, do you want to add anything?
You guys, big brains. Thank you for joining us today. It was absolutely amazing. A lot of knowledge,
a lot of technical stuff that we covered also. We love that. Also, I'm going to do announcement
for Micr. He's writing a, he's writing a post, right? About Linea. So check his newsletter.
It's a pure gold. It's fucking epic. It's pin it up. And yeah, grateful. I think, I think we good,
good to go. What do you think? Yeah. Micr, Nova, do you want to share anything before we wrap it up?
Yeah, just right back at you guys. You guys are legends. Thanks so much for having us up here
in your space. You know, like everybody else always says, it's like the best energy out of most of the
spaces. Other than other space, obviously they're, they're better, but you know, no, but really
appreciate you guys having us up here. And, uh, and yeah, just thanks so much. Give us a platform.
Like, I cannot disagree with you, man. They're our sponsors. So I'm not going to say our sponsor sucks,
right? Because they're sending us zero eat every week. So yeah, other space is better than us.
A hundred percent. And, uh, yeah, I'm waiting now. I hope I will, I will send you snippet. I'm still
waiting for that eat. Uh, thank you so much, Micr, for joining us. It was amazing. It's such a great
talk today. Thank you so much, man. Nova, do you want to add anything?
No, I mean, just thank you guys for hosting us. Really appreciate your time, the energy you bring,
and you're grateful and you, you as well, Beast. I mean, maybe Beast is just a change your name to
Beast Beast, you know, and then slogan, Apes are nice, the name twice. I don't know.
Can we just use that name as, as the, like, ApeCoin, the other ApeCoin that we just talked about
so that we have it and we can move on?
Oh my God, guys, we, we started in the comedy club and we are ending in the comedy club.
Absolutely love that.
Crystal, A-bomb, do you want to add anything, share anything? Uh, say hi, say whatever.
Go ahead, guys, and then I will play the outro and let's go to other space.
I just appreciate everyone's time, man. There's a lot of, a lot of smart people here, so.
Absolutely love it, man. Agree. Thank you so much for joining us, man. I also love your work,
so guys, definitely also check Crystal's profile, you know. I'll write, you read. That's actually
great bio, man. I absolutely love it. Uh, there's a little issue that Apes, they, they, they can't
read, but, uh, but I love that, man. A-bomb, anything else you want to add before we wrap up?
No, man, you guys are just killing it. Episode 203, let's go, baby. Keep doing your thing.
Let's go. Thank you so much, guys, for joining us today. It was amazing. And trust me, guys,
AIP 326 is so much better than my AIP idea because I wanted to create a background changer,
you know. Uh, only me and Taylor are, are good here. Uh, you know, the, the idea was that basically
you type your ape or mutant number, uh, ape or mutant number, and your background will switch
into the aquamarine, but I'm, I'm still not sure about that AIP. Uh, yeah, I got a lot of backslash
from, from, uh, you know, orange, orange apes. So I don't know what's going to happen, but
definitely check AIP 326 when it's going to go for vote. Check it out. Read it. And yeah, I really
love the idea, guys. I really hope it will pass. So we all stay in touch and yeah, this was great
for show. Peace. Number? 200? And? Yeah, I can, I can find the, I can find the outro. So all I,
all I found is this. That's not the right one. That was the goats, but you still have it. Where's
the chuba also? You still have it? No, I don't know. Where is it? Oh, outro is gone probably. Oh my
God, man. Such a mess today. But thank you so much guys for listening. Thank you so much
guys for joining us on stage and have a great Thursday. Hop into the other space, hop into
the billow board and follow people on stage. Let's go.
Let's fucking go. I'm going to work on the idea for ApeCoin for kids. So yeah, that's me, bad boys.
Bad boys, what you want, what you want, what you gonna do, when Sherry John Brown come for
you? Tell me, what you wanna do, what you gonna do? Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do,
what you gonna do when they come for you? Let's go. I tell you what you gonna do. You buy
more ApeCoin, you go to other space. So billow board. Have a great Thursday, guys. Let's
fucking go. Let's fucking go. See you soon.
