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Grateful Show #64 with @forgottenrunes 🧙🏻♂️
Recorded: Oct. 29, 2022 Duration: 1:44:52Space Recording
Full Transcription
Man, it's ain't Pauling how they be hatin' on us, they should appreciate it, it's Spotty
Wifi, Gorilla.
Apparently they hate it, cause I made affiliated, it's affiliated, but they ain't us and we
really made it, they sittin' waitin' while me and Gorilla innovatin', it's when the
fingers start debating, yet you really hate it.
This ain't a diss for, this ain't what you wish for, I seen them talkin' real slick up
in the discord, this ain't a sing-along, homie, I ain't been called, I ain't goin' back
to college, I'm like it's pink, I'm the 64, it's 4065, PMTs need EMTs, black line, I'll be
honorary, she the gang, till I die, I spit a sweet 16, it's a live, fly, fly, fly, with
a fly, wide-eyed predator, call me Mr. President, really, he the senator, fly, rollin', crazy-eyed
haters, KC, straight, appreciate, don't try to compete with an elite, ayy, B-A-Y-C, how
we abbreviate, key the gang, run it, so DMTs, we cremate, go, gorilla, the gopher, killer,
we be great, don't hate, you think you can't compete with an elite, ayy, on the spot beat,
we servin' it on a clean plate, you see my body was spotty, you need to be safe, we go to
war, still be boring, but don't be late, it's no debate, can't compete with an elite, ayy,
I pullin' to the club, toss the keys to Jenkins, my homie, he got stories that we'd rather
not mention, hit the bar, Hansel's serving me and Sock in some sake, men for singin' in
the lobby's body, ready to rock, back to the doctor, get cocky with the comic book, cameos,
Josh Hart, middle finger to the cast, grab scenarios, word to biz, the sensei with the vision of
samurai, and me and trouble shit, posting part of my ass about life, why don't you gotta buy
more, why don't you ask for, school and more, shout out to the pirate king blackboard,
PVA the most born, veteran post-war, EARN got the memes, so you know I'm a boy,
celebrate with 88 debating the hot tub, you know we turn the dot club into the spot club,
dogs in the kennel, so you know we gon' be straight, appreciate, don't try to compete with an elite,
ayy, I see how we abbreviate, key to gang, when it's so DMT's,
we cremate, go, relive to go, fur killer, we be great, don't hate,
you think you can't compete with an elite, ayy, on the small feet,
we serving it on a clean plate, you see my body respite,
welcome to the Rooniverse, let's go.
Yo, yo, yo, yo, what's up, guys?
Let me just wander through the Rooniverse for a second, and I'll be back.
Let's go.
Jam, jam.
Jam, jam, jam, jam.
gmgm everybody
welcome to the grateful show number 64 how are you doing beast gmgm gm metazic what's up guys
yo gmgm what an intro like there is so much magic going on like i was watching that forgotten
runes map while you were playing i was there bro i was there yeah also
such a nice experience yeah it's given me serious uh pixel wizard vibes and uh from yesterday's
experience as well yeah very this was actually conan the barbarian you know but i i watched it
i watched that like two days ago and there was a wizard so you know i was like okay
oh i thought it was like some theme tune or something that these guys no you know okay
yeah better no comment what's up bears snake what's up how you guys doing today
oh i'm gmgm guys yeah good morning gm good morning gmt good morning thanks for having us on guys
guys we are super excited and me and metazic we went to to the discord yesterday you know and it
was really funny because i was just doing that uh trick or treat you know and i i was calling metazic
and i didn't know that there's a voice channel in the discord and that it's on so i was like
yo bro what the fuck i'm just knocking the door look at that look at that something's happening
and everyone in the discord was listening to me so i was like okay that's a good start but it was
great guys yeah they're very very welcoming really really fun really nice vibey community that's
that's the impression i got oh thanks yeah i mean you know one of the things i always tell the
community is we try to keep um eternal big family christmas party vibes you know i think whenever
you get the family together you're trying to celebrate have a good time you know maybe you
get into a fight with your uncle over politics in the corner but that doesn't set the vibe for the
whole for the whole party right so we've been trying to keep that for about a year and a half and and
yeah we really love the community guys like i went through like the the lore and everything and
it's just incredible how much you guys created over that period of like one year and something
that like all the stories and everything you know like it's it's so it's so dope
it's it's been a while hasn't it you guys have been out for a long time actually i i remember
not long after apes seeing seeing people using your pfps and 10k tf using your project as one of the
original sort of avatars for the genesis day packs and whatnot yeah we launched in june of last year
so i guess we're like what is it 18 20 months uh old and so i guess that's you know ancient history
in the nft space that we feel like you know we're just babies like we feel like we're only one year
old and we have so much more we want to do and accomplish and we're learning and growing
i love that guys and i i remember i remember the the mint and i actually owned like three or four
wizards i bought them for like 0.0 something but that was a big lesson for me because i sold them
after that which was of course like big mistake and i was trading back in the day yeah and uh yeah
now i'm buying projects you know enjoying the ride you know and supporting good teams so i'm super pumped
that you are here because you've been busy working and building you know so want to learn more about
about the journey so yeah 100 yeah and you know i think the wizards are kind of in this like
interesting uncanny valley of like if we're going to talk about floor price so well let me roll back
for a second here which is like one of the main things about our community is this uh one of the
main principles is this idea of like lore not floor right so really the point of forgotten runes is
um that like each individual nft um is a character and when you own that wizard like you are your wizard
and and you tell stories about that character right we have this on-chain book of lore um we we take
stories from the book of lore and we're using it in our comic book um and in our television show um
and and the the key idea is that you own a whole character you'll notice with the forgotten runes that
they're um entire like you see not only like the head and chest but also like the legs and we have
like ponies and your characters can ride ponies and um uh and and so this idea is that like you tell
stories around your character and that's what affects its rarity a lot more than floor price
and so you know that's really the main just the project i could talk i'll probably spend most of
the time talking about things that branch off of that idea but if i can talk about floor price for
just a second i think one of the things that's interesting about wizards is it's maybe in this
uncanny valley in terms of floor price where it's like one and a half ether 1.3 right it's like not so
cheap that you feel like oh i can get you know get into the ground floor and get like hundreds of
these really cheap um but it's not like so expensive like some of the like you know it's
not like above 10 eat where it's like clearly um you know a high-end nft either and so yeah i you
know i think we have a lot of of room to grow of course and then even the warriors for example are
still relatively cheap i think they're only 0.2 so um you know i don't i guess what i'm getting at is
i think relative to what we're shipping on a daily basis i think the price is actually quite affordable
yeah it's amazing man and and exactly you know what i mentioned that you know i was flipping jpegs
and i didn't think about it back in the day like this but now i completely switch because i've seen
a lot of stuff and you know you also you also want to have fun on the way right so if you are like 1.3
usually we barely talk about floor prices here you know but if we talk about 1.3 you know you can buy
lego for like over thousand dollars you know and you you build it and you leave it in the corner and
you don't touch it right and here you can interact you know you have a community you have a lore you
have so much more stuff so uh it's really it's really amazing so yeah good job guys all like me
all like me you build the lego you stick it on the mantelpiece while you've got covid and on in in
isolation and then your missus comes in your girlfriend comes in and takes it all off the
mantelpiece and chucks it in a basket and all breaks oh no she can't throw your nfts in a basket
no that's true exactly exactly my point exactly i was like i was like i've got to rebuild this
like that's what it's all about isn't it building i'm like yeah but like you build it from scratch
with the instructions i don't have to like find bits that are missing from this
and your girlfriend is your nft manager that's right you you screwed bro anyway anyway cry me a river
hashtag first world problems right no but i think that's you know that's part of what um this
halloween event was about is you know it wasn't really about financialization in fact most of the
things we do are just not about that i think that comes when you pay attention to all the other things
which is a lot of things in life right when you're not trying so hard to do the thing that you want and
you just continue on your path usually it sort of comes to fruition but like we're this halloween
thing is about having fun you know it's kind of a bearish market um and and giving things you know
giving giving things to do to the people in the community i think is really important um i wouldn't
even call it utility it's just like interacting with this character that you know we're trying to
make sure you have an emotional you feel emotional connection to and i just think there's a whole
entire theme of collaboration that's going to be going on between like in between projects right
and so i think we're trying to you know cast out and you know hold hands with other projects and
you know let them know what we're about and and know and like for us to discover what they're about
and i think the legos is a really interesting like uh analogy too for some of the stuff that we're
trying to build you know one of the things that when you try to get into forgotten runes that can be
a bit overwhelming is we do have like um several collections and we also have a lot of different
dynamics and interactions between those collections so the wizards being kind of like the original the
elite um you know character collection but then on top of that we've got um ponies which you know
the utility for those right now is just fun we've got some pony walk cycles but eventually we're going
to let you ride them in the uh runiverse game which is an mmo rpg that we're working on with our partners
uh by sonic and um then we've also got uh uh beasts and the beasts have their own spawn which
are these like legendary creatures of the runiverse and so we found that we like really have a lot of
like the characters um uh laid out fair pretty well like we're not going to drop any new characters for
quite a long time and um so some of the other pieces that we're trying to do is like build these
primitives and so these items that you uh got for trick or treat we're trying to build out um the set
of items and so you know our uh our third partner elf who's the artist and comes up with the bulk of
the lore um that comes from us is he talks a lot about this idea that there's so many pieces of
media that are just based around this idea of an item right lord of the rings being the most famous
which is like the anchor of the whole story is this like object of the ring or that you can even
look at uh films like a christmas story where he wants a red rider bb gun and that's really like the
driving plot of the whole movie is that he wants his bb gun and so these items that are coming out
through trick or treat um you know will we use them in some games sure might we use some of the you
know some of the items to to participate in mechanics if your drops like of course but really like
when we do a drop um they're storytelling tools for storytellers and so really what we're trying
to do is like establish we're we're trying to do is create the next great fantasy franchise
that's grounded in web 3 and so when we release a token it's not just about a mechanic but it's about
like telling a story and hopefully we do both at the same time in like a really like unique and web
3 native way so we have characters we have some items we'll probably add more in the future
um and i think one of the next things we want to work on is um you know locations we have some maps
that are sort of static um uh well and we also have stories so we have the book of lore where you
can come and you can write stories about your character you can add you know images and text
um and then i think like maps is something we're looking a lot at and a few other pieces
awesome could we talk a bit what happened yesterday and if the experience is still open
uh for those communities because i know that you allowed 10 communities right uh to enter
uh i also got some stuff i got like spotted egg and i got a book of eggs so a lot of a lot of eggs for me
uh so i'm i'm i'm i'm waiting for the alpha a bit here you know what can i do yeah well
you know i got some treats also so i'm also really curious yeah i got a strawberry a hot dog a dead rat
and a mug of coffee tell me yeah tell me the alpha sounds delicious um you know eggs have uh a really
straightforward mechanic so yeah hang on to them um but the the the idea with uh trick-or-treat so just
to give a bit of context for folks who are who are like maybe just coming into it is um the the
trick-or-treat is an airdrop that goes to forgotten runes holders as well as 10 partner communities let's
see if i can remember them all so it's a zuki moon birds world of women loot board apes
uh cool cats doodles 10 ktf 10 ktf
crypto punks yeah yeah punks yep that's punks and loot yeah that's all of them i love great loots on
there oh yeah uh is it loots or blutes no it's loot come on no no let's go bro
i actually personally i think that project has so much potential like i think a lot of people
don't really understand it but yeah go on carry on dota no i 100 agree i love not to get on a tangent
too too hard but um i love loot so much um i like there's there's one of the challenges that loot has
is it's so decentralized that there's not they're like still figuring out what their central narrative
is right and so there's not necessarily like um and and that's part of its beauty right that's part
of its beauty is that it's like something that it's it's on the pure decentralized end of things
and so i definitely think that like forgotten runes takes inspiration from this idea not even
takes inspiration but it's like it's like doing the same goal which is this idea of like um
well this like rpg primitives or this like war storytelling primitives um and so
yeah so one of the things that's a little bit different about forgotten runes is that like we
actually kind of like draw these um world boundaries right we've published a map which
is like the world of forgotten runes we've told uh we've created location stories we're like sort of
establishing a magic system and i think it's a collaborative process insofar as like when our
users uh like when our like our cult members like create stories then those things all get
incorporated but we have another principle which is hours over official and it's this idea that like
all of us are creating this world together that said i think the hardest paper to write on is a blank
piece of paper right and when you provide people a bit of structure around around what the world is
what the magic system is like what are the political factions who are the creatures what are the
floor what are the fauna if you establish that up front it actually makes it a lot easier to build
on right you need um jk rowling to write harry potter before you can have harry potter fan fiction
so it's like yeah yeah it's actually a really great point daughter like i i actually never thought
about loot in that way that like when we're thinking about let's say decentralization or like uh
storytelling by the community we can think about like loot is let's say on one side and then on the
other side like other extreme we could do like lord of the rings right that like with loot it's
just the community and you let the community to do whatever in lord of the rings like the community
does nothing do you know what really with loot i think if you play elden ring if you watch lord of
the rings you know all the all these sorts of things game of thrones like i feel like so much can
be built because if you've got if you've got an avatar or if you've got a 2d uh you know pixelated
a high fidelity thing um i think i feel like the pixelated stuff is pretty timeless but like
some 2d and high fidelity stuff becomes very dated very quickly and loot gives you kind of this basis
to build anything you know any asset and the way i look at it is that imagine somebody produced a game
like elden ring with loot loot asset you know the the words on on on the page if you like as the
foundation for building the assets but in 10 years somebody could build another game which makes
elden ring look like you know centuries old and still use those assets so so from a derivatives
perspective it's like yeah you can keep modifying an ape or something like that but like with loot i
feel like it is completely and utterly timeless and it just takes somebody to come and build a huge
project off the back of it um and that's where the i guess the decentralized aspect may be a bit of a
hurdle because you're not going to necessarily want somebody to invest millions of dollars into
something that they don't own and i'll tell you what this idea that like the words are the essence
right like you this you have this like platonic ideal of like you know a leather pouch or something
and um because of like uh i don't know if you all have seen like dolly and stable diffusion and this ai
generated art um this year it has been progressing um like ridiculously fast to the point where like not
only are we seeing 2d images but we're actually starting to see the like uh little glimmers of
like 3d assets or even like animated like short films based on just textual descriptions and so
really we're not five years away from being able to sort of like take the descriptions that are in
your loot bag and generating those assets that are on par with elden ring because because the the
algorithms are just getting so good and so yeah so i think there's something really interesting and
fresh there that hasn't really been like uncovered completely yeah some some serious world building
welcome minister of nfts what a uh what an honor to have you on stage here today gmgm i expect a huge
alpha from minister yo gmgm minister and guys uh before minister will tell us his alpha here uh lower
right corner there's like a bubble click it there you can ask questions and you can of course retweet the
space so everyone go there retweet the space so your friends can see that we are vibing here with
the wizards and let's go can you say that again grateful we are vibing with the wizards
i'm retweeting right now
sounds like we're vibing with the wookies
oh my god i was gonna say minister's about to break into song or something yeah but a lot of
oh my god is it is the minister is it minister of storytelling or yeah maybe he doesn't actually
speak he just he just produces the sickest memes and speaks in the minister is trying to rock this
space he only talks in soundboard
minister if you're trying to rock this space thumbs up yes sir
man i wouldn't do this yeah i would look at a bear snake you know do you want to send
the snake at you minister and we know where you live of course do we oh he's the prime minister
of course we do oh shit we found him out we found him out
all right calm down boris or richie yeah be careful metazic is a is a mma champion in uk so
you know you don't want to mess with him yeah so guys you mentioned the the community created
lore you know so does it work like that if i'm building the character around the around the wizard
and i you know sell it or if i buy another one the wizard already has a story in the lore
yeah so the way that the book of lore works is it's a token gated website well anyone can read but
you have to own the token to be able to write into the book of lore and so um that's all enforced by
like uh contracts on chain your lore is stored on ipfs but like writing the pointer to that ipfs is
stored in our smart contract so you know the the book of lore is on chain and persistent for as long as
um ethereum exists and someone is like uh pinning the uh ipfs files of your lore when you acquire a
wizard um so we actually have our own marketplace so we have forgotten market it was created by our
community wizard tv who i actually see here in the audience hey tv what's up um and so you can actually
filter by wizards or or warriors i when i'll often use wizards to for the same you know the whole
collection anyway you can see which wizards have lore and uh a lot of people like to buy one some
people like to have wizards that have lore already some like to buy wizards that that are fresh um if
your wizard has lore and you decide you maybe don't vibe with it you don't want to see it um you do have
the option as a new owner to hide that lore which means it won't show up on the book of lore page
that said um you can always go into the archives and find all lore that was written about your wizard so
the book of lore was kind of inspired by this idea that's similar in like game of thrones where you
have um i don't know if you're familiar with like the book of the knights right where every knight has
his own page uh detailing his like quests and achievements and that's the idea with the book of
lore and so if an owner wants to hide lore they can uh but it can always be found right so when you
write in the book of lore it exists forever this is really sick idea man because you can see the
history of the character that maybe you bought you know or you can build some huge storyline that's
really cool i don't know about anyone that's actually been doing the same as you guys i don't
think i've i don't think i've seen it either and you know i think that's that's one piece of it and
there's this you know there's this challenge that we put out to the um community and everybody who's a
character holder is you know make your character legendary you know how do how do you make your
character legendary through the book of lore through creation um and there's the cult sort of like
self-filters right and then the other side of it is those stories i think dota mentioned it earlier
um you know these this idea of like larger media expressions and we sort of talk we sort of talk
about this project as like we're still running a franchise um and you know this idea of like
having a television show or a you know really you know well thought out video game comic book series
merchandising all these things the book of lore is this is a lot of the source material that we take
and implement into all these media expressions so this idea of like you're going to write a story
um about your wizard or your pony or your warrior or your beast and then all of a sudden you see that
um mirrored in a storyline in a television show um i just think like that is so exciting and really
that's what that's what this is all about like how do you we we already know we already have things like
lord of the rings and game of thrones and you know not even just you know just entertainment franchises
in general um that is born out of a system where ip is solely owned by the estate by the large media
corporation whoever right and there's this one way like value extraction from uh from the fan to the
owner of the ip and so this idea of sort of contributing um we think embodies what web 3 is
and and makes it helps it go faster makes it more rich um and yeah we're just this is what we're here
for we're here to like kind of break the system and build a new model yeah that's awesome man and
when i listen to overpriced jpegs i think you were there last week or no maybe a few days ago like
wednesday right yeah we were uh i think we did it we recorded on thursday went up uh yesterday
yeah man and and you talk about it i don't know if i understand it correctly that a lot of people
spend over like 100k on character building is that correct or yeah there's people that um
are building you know i mean and i think dota dota i think if you guys are down with that dota should
explain what the ip rights are um there's this whole thing i know ip rights are a whole entire
thing but our stance is who cares about what ip rights you have you don't have no one cares about
the ip if no one thinks that ip is valuable then it doesn't matter what rights you have um
wait i forgot the question yeah asking if like people had uh spent over 100k on developing their
character and the answer is yes yeah we have someone who's making uh their own tv show like a true crime
animated series which is incredible we have someone who's uh building out a video game
um creating like a manga series there's like plenty of folks who are actually building on their ip rights
yeah that's crazy guys loved it loved it and i remember when i first went to a website there was
only the tower uh you know uh if i'm if i'm right what's the purpose of that of that tower that's the
first question and the second one is how did you achieve this like that you know everyone's talking
about storytelling and storytelling nfts you know and everyone everyone like talks about it but
not so many projects actually achieve anything like not so much in it you know so yeah how did you do
that okay so well the secret tower is the place where the wizards are summoned um so it's a location
in the runiverse where uh wizards are summoned how do we achieve uh this meaning like i guess what you're
saying like actual storytelling nfts i think it comes from a few things one is just that like we're
nerds at heart so our third partner elf and i um you know uh all three of us have really just like
grown up loving fantasy um you know i grew up like playing final fantasy and uh legend of zelda and
magic the gathering and dungeons and dragons and so we like comment all of that like very naturally um we
like really love all of that um i think a second choice was choosing pixel art right in the same
way that like loot uses kind of uh words as their lowest fidelity item we use this low resolution pixel
art not because one it's like retro but that it's not the final say right if we had done sort of these
like high resolution uh 2d drawings or even high resolution 3d um then it doesn't leave as much room
for imagination and it doesn't move as leave as much room for creation so for example um you know
you can have a 10 year old who can create pixel art animations um so everyone from 10 to 100 can add on
and create something with forgotten runes and so i think part of it is like the project is structured
to be able to allow people to build on it and then i think the other part is really just like um
well we have been very deliberate about trying to encourage creators more than like degen flippers
and i think that that you know it's at the the time will tell whether or not that's actually worked
for us or against us financially right um i insofar as like when we did for example some of our early
drops we did drops only to people who had actually written in the book of lore and that was quite sort of
outrageous i took a lot of heat for that because we basically had whales who uh had quite a lot of
tokens um now uh the whales who are still around are like very good and like they understand the
bigger vision and like the long-term time preference so i'm not really referring to anybody who's still
around and holds a lot of tokens i mean kind of at the time there's a lot of people who felt like
i own a token i should get one token one airdrop and we were like no no no like we're creating
storytelling tools for storytellers we want to reward people who create whether they had a lot
of money to buy a lot of nfts at the mint or not um and so we really drew a line in the sand early on
um and then i think the other part really is just well this idea of like lore not floor
people were quite cynical about it in the beginning uh they would say oh wow that's a really good way
to get people to like not sell your tokens like make them believe in the story and we're like no no
like we really believe in what we're doing because when you look at like link to the past or final
fantasy or harry potter right you grow up be like really loving these characters right like i used to
play that i was link from zelda in my backyard with sticks and i would pretend i was rescuing the
princess or whatever and i felt like so kind of attached to that character and when you grow up
you realize like your whole generation was attached to the character and like you don't own it you can't
even create any art about it that's not like basically illegal because you don't really have
commercial rights to that character and so you basically have to give that up you have no real
way to like make money or to justify like when also when you get older you have to make money to justify
your time right like you have kids you have responsibilities you get a mortgage whatever
and like one of the interesting things about uh creation when you own the ip and you own the token
is actually you're making your token more valuable you actually it actually is worth your time even in a
financial sense because you're investing in an asset that you own rather than just like something
that's you know it's it's it actually does become partly financial if you want it to be if you need
that to help justify so um so all that to say i think we really structured this project from the
ground up which is that like the lore is important to us like people that join the project and who have
stuck around love playing dnd they love the stories they love like adding to the wiki they love the artwork
um and so i think it just comes from this like constant reiteration of the drive of like
loving the creation rather than the floor price i also think on top of that sorry just because i think
that's the but like that's the core of what we're doing but then you look at like dota is one i mean
i'm biased but it's also facts it's like like like dota and elf are incredible incredibly experienced
sort of you know creators in their own right um and and i think and i've done some silly things in the
past that align with what's going on so the ability to you know dota and elf made and you know a slew
of mobile games uh really early on in the apple app store that had serious success right they've done
businesses dota's been a ceo of a company i've you know started and sold a bunch of companies and so
this idea that we have just been around doing things we've seen cycles and we have you know we
can pick up the phone and call people i think allows us to take what's so special about forgot
rooms um and expand it into sort of these more maybe like web 2.0 or more you know more legacy
media expressions
it's fascinating how you guys thinking about like uh that like the thing even that you give people
like pixelated art like you let them to use their imagination to to have more opportunities to
work with their character like because like you can always go like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly
because you can i mean if you create a 3d 3d avatar it's very hard to change it because like
you take that 3d avatar to let's say i don't know like the virtual worlds and most probably it's gonna
look the same but like since you guys doing this pixelated art like everyone can have a slightly
different imagination and they can create like a 2d avatar they can create even 3d avatar i assume
like in the animated series uh it's not gonna be pixelated right that's right yeah yeah i don't know
if you've seen our trailer um but our in our trailer it's it's basically this like let's call it american
anime style yeah if you go to my twitter uh it's i think elf's twitter too it's posted to pin at the
top it's sort of the teaser trailer for the television show uh i'll pin it here i i saw it
is that like one and a half minutes right or a little less than two minutes and yeah it's it's so
dope oh there we go i i was able to oh great i feel like artifact have done the 3d side of things
quite well everybody else they've done a great job but like my favorite projects are ones that are
very much law driven and like yourselves you know kind of build upon the foundations of that allow the
community to kind of drive it forwards and and use their imagination but also like not get too deep
into like tokenomics and you know just like just pull out some play to earn game the typical sort
of playbook a comic this that and other merch and everything i feel like you know there's a handful of
projects that um and i i name them too often so i won't say but there's a handful of projects
that operate in this way and the kind of the the model that you're using for me is the best out
there at the moment in terms of you know in terms of growing but also like staying within the
parameters of not being deemed as security by the sec for instance yeah yeah yeah gotta be careful
dota maybe talk about the 3d i mean part of this is like you know you own a token and you know the
we try to like sort of there's all these different expressions of these primitives and so we try to build
uh additional sort of pieces that you get when you have these tokens almost like the leg yeah so
so one of the things that's really important with forgotten runes is that when you own the token you
own the character and all its expressions so part of that is you get commercial rights to that character
um and so you can and that includes like whatever derivatives you want to make including like other
nft derivatives if you want to um but part of it is we want to make it very easy to use your character
in kind of all mediums all metas everywhere and we haven't achieved that quite yet but
um the first thing that we did was walk cycles so we have walk cycles for all 10 000 of the wizards
and in fact for this halloween event um oh you asked earlier by the way if it's still going on it is
it's going on until monday um for this halloween event we actually dropped all the walk cycles for
all 16 000 warriors and for all 600 souls um and so those would be 2d walk cycles um we have
integrations with uh worldwide web 3 um for the wizards and then um we're we're talking with them
we'll have the warriors and souls in there shortly um and but that is an open api one of the things
again is like anyone who wants to integrate with the forgotten runes characters you don't have to ask
our permission we have an api if you're building a little game it's a 2d game just call up our api the
sprite sheets are right there you can integrate forgotten runes directly into it um but then of
course like we do really want to do 3d and and we are we've been working on 3d for i think a year now
um and we have very good progress um we're we're we're very close on all the warriors um
and yeah well i really love the style we haven't released too much of the artwork yet
we'll basically have all of the wizards um fully modeled textured and rigged um and ready to go
um within the next few months we um so we've already got uh integrations lined up with nifty island and
we of course have some other big players um in discussions as well but again we'll be um letting
people download those models and if you are the sort of person that uses blender maya you know unity
and you want to integrate them into kind of your game or just like artwork you absolutely can so
yeah just want to make it easy for people to present as their their their wizards wherever
they are um i'd even love to do some b tubing stuff right it'd be fun to present on b2 but that's a
little ways out yeah maybe do some like ar filters and stuff like that for sure and are you looking to
potentially integrate anything into the other side it's always something we're interested in well uh
you know we've had conversations so i'll leave it at that you you can check uh garga's tweets if you
want to uh i saw that tweet i saw that too i obviously didn't say that's the alpha then yes
is the answer i'm taking it we're fans of that we're fans of the whole team everybody uses
he's really professional he tweeted at one of his favorite projects is forgotten rules right
yeah he was like fuck it now i can tweet he was like fuck it now i can tweet whatever i want and
he mentioned you guys i was like huh that's interesting and then that's interesting yeah i was like oh
great i i also saw you guys uh or like few people or bunch of few people in we knew uh who i think
people is part of that right and like who works with or created like tank atf and works with gucci
like i saw like bunch of wizards there like are you guys like collaborating or are you guys like
working together or no we're just bffs with tank atf so there's like a couple of folks who work there
are wizards and we're like just friends with and then um well uh the owner of the uh the forgotten
nothingness is a friend of ours who yeah who's who's a part of that i actually don't know what's
public and what's not so i gotta be careful but yeah that's okay that's fine here yeah whatever you
say here stays here guys it's not recorded so don't worry yeah the the flashing red dot in the top
left hand corner that says recording delete it's deleted it's deleted no no no it's fine i'm just
saying we have uh we have friends there but there's nothing like formal so so to net what the the
projects i was referring to earlier one of them is 10 ktf so yeah that doesn't that doesn't surprise
me that you're uh pals with them and guys also this shows you know like when i listened to last
uh i don't know where it was decrypt or maybe in the rock radio uh when gorlin and garga talk about
you know building the actual company and web3 business you know it's not that simple and what
you mentioned is it actually proves that you know if you have business experience before and i i also
learned from that overpriced jpeg podcast that you know as you said you sold companies and you also
sold uh something on apple store right so you have some apps without a business experience
it's not that simple and not that easy and most of the successful founders that we had here
like they had a business experience of course before and they were successful so it goes hand to hand
and i'm i'm super super happy that you just confirmed that yeah yeah we have um so we have
12 or 13 uh let's call 13 full-time people at magic machine um working like you know business hours plus
every day of the week um uh trying to like make forgotten runes better and on top of that
um there's another 35 people full-time working on the runiverse game which is an mmo rpg that's sort
of like um stardew valley meets world of warcraft so um you can check out the runiverse game uh like
blog and see some of their updates they just release some really cool blog posts that have
tons of artwork about like the battle system mechanics and the different like lands um and so
yeah there's there's a big crew working on making forgotten runes kind of the the the biggest fantasy
franchise ever um and i think it's it's well it's quite a lot of work i think that like you know i
probably underestimated the amount of work that it was to do an nft project in the beginning but then
like we just loved it so much like i wouldn't want to do anything else well i wouldn't even call this
just an nft project i think that's what happened is it turned from it sort of evolved from a nft project
to you know something else and i know that that was always kind of the plan but is it okay to actually
talk about some of these other things that we're we're doing because i get really yeah man
i have to say i have to say i really love the name bear snake you know i love bears
and like being bear snake it's like a live goal so congrats man i don't know what 21 means i don't
know what 21 means but it's a it's a good number so probably because because one to 20 was taken by
all the yeah we got to get the bear snake handle i've tried i've reached out yeah i thought you were
gonna do that i'll text elon and see if he can get it we need to get elon i will say 21 absolutely has
a meaning uh it's it's like uh you know when there's just some weird stuff that aligns 21 is
like very much that number for me and i'm not like i'm not i'm not really religious i'm not spiritual
i mean maybe i don't know but anyway 21 is very very relevant okay i'm going on a tangent one thing i
one thing i wanted to talk about was um god i know i i'm just like verbal diarrhea all the time
i'm sorry no no you are the best storyteller bro yeah yeah yeah exactly are you kidding me
dota is amazing at talking i can just sit here and listen to him and i'm just like i feel like i'm
like fumbling on myself 21 is also the year of of inception of you know you can save that bro
but you know last last spaces we had a we had a trash here you know the darius darius project
or was that before last show right it was last one yeah i think it was the last one yeah ever
ever ever ever since then we've just uh gone downhill when it comes to like
crashing it with the sound this was not close to diarrhea so you're still good bro
what happened to minister as well he was up here with his soundboard and then disappeared somebody said
in the comments that he never speaks on spaces yeah we'll try try and get them to speak and uh
i i met i met minister in few spaces and uh i i never heard him speak
i thought he was gonna get some like alpha out but but he's good he's good with doing voices
how do you know he's not a she you should hire you should hire minister
is he hired i mean we could hire him as the king of memes he's not a part of the wizards
no i don't think joda who invited him up here who even invited him i'm not a host i can't invite
people i don't know that's true so it must have been one of you two that was the wizard magic man
i didn't touch anything it was gandalf so sorry bear snake you was uh before we went on a tangent
yeah you wanted to talk about something i wanted to talk about i wanted to talk about sort of uh off
of what you were saying with by sonic the the game developer that we're making the game with is just
like this idea of recruiting like the reason we're able to punch above our weight as forgotten ruins the
web3 company is like recruiting all these amazing partners and all these different things so like
with the tv show um we're still developing it we still have to find a distributor but we're writing
the scripts and and and you know we've onboarded titmouse animation who is one of like the preeminent
animation studios in hollywood um they probably you know they make you know they make big mouth they
make some of the biggest most watched animated shows in the world they have a first look deal at
netflix which means anything that they developed uh netflix has to be able to look at it before
anyone else so we have them and they did all the production animation for the trailer really really
top quality and then we brought in um an old pal of mine uh derrick colstead who is maybe one of
like the world's greatest script writers and storytellers um he you may know him he uh
he wrote and created the john wick series so he wrote all those movies they generated hundreds and
hundreds of millions of dollars he wrote this movie nobody i'm not sure if you saw that uh with
bob odenkirk which is i if you haven't seen it i highly recommend you know he he was you know he writes
on marvel shows and he actually was writing i thought it was so cool i sat down with him to tell him
about uh forgotten rooms and he was like oh i just like i just got kicked off the he didn't get kicked
off but um he was writing the dungeons and dragons movie um but hasboro bought wizards of the coast and
then they wanted to go in another direction or whatever so point is is we have this incredible
studio that can do the best animation there is we have a writer who is maybe one of like 20 people
who can walk into a room and and like be trying to be trusted to deliver something that is of a
certain caliber um and so i think it takes partners like that you know even with our comic book we have
a 10 um issue comic book that we printed 200 000 copies of the first of the first issue we we gave
away i don't know like 30 000 copies in new york city during nftnyc we've been at both comic cons
but we have riley brown who has been drawing deadpool um for over 10 years and he's doing
our comic so i think and we have this really great writer joe reckman and you know it takes it takes a
village to do all these things but i guess my point is is you know we really we really want to
have the highest quality bar we possibly can so we partner with people who are incredible in their
own right in their own space and we bring them in and we have to find those people have to understand
what forgotten wounds is and they have to be highly collaborative right because they have to be
willing to look into the book of lore and be inspired by stories written by the community so
you know we're just really happy uh and feel quite fortunate to to be working with all these people
first of all that's insane i can't like to see wizards like taking take it just going into a
building and just taking out all these like henchmen in a building with with with two silver ballers or
something like that um deadpool john wick uh wizards how that mixes i'm intrigued that's the first spinoff
that's a wild guys congrats that's amazing you know because always the the final product is the
is uh you know made by uh by the people and the better the team and this is this is insane so
yeah i know that metasic will definitely or you you probably already bought one right
no no i'm good i'm good with my dead rat and my hot dog and my strawberry
but no what i was going to ask is um you know that's insane that is insane but um do you so so
something that i've only just kind of started getting into now is actually like thinking about
building ip around my ape like i feel like i'm not the most creative person in this space definitely
by a long shot there there are some incredibly creative people um within your community i can
already tell by just jumping in the voice chat and the discord that like there's some really like
they're they're hardcore wizards and and that's great do you provide tools for people to um build law
around their their assets yeah you know it takes kind of all types in terms of like whatever you're
sort of interested in i think that like starting at the at the most like basic thing is um we talked
about this on wizard wednesday this week so we do a weekly twitter space it's called wizard wednesday
we've done it um 65 times so every single week for the last like year and a half um i haven't missed any
of them and one of the things that we talked about last week is we did um we even played a song which
opened with this artist who is like not really known as being like particularly musical talented
musically talented but she basically creates these songs that are um true uh and that's one of the
things that we talk about with forgotten runes is like it's not about necessarily being a particularly
talented artist or writer or any of these things but it's really about like creating something in
earnest and um i think that most people have something to say and something to create more
than they think and so i think i would even start back at step zero which is to be like you probably
have more to say and more that you could create and you think right like you can sit down with your phone
and uh a napkin and and a marker and like create something that's compelling if you stop and think
about um you know a message you would want to get out in the world so i would say you could probably
create more than you think the the second thing is is that we do have um like different tools and
resources so we have lore writing workshops um run by folks like meeple dad i don't know if he's here
today um we have have uh dungeons and dragons games and kind of it's like its own sort of like
lore and storytelling that's like pretty structured you just mostly have to respond to what the dungeon
master does um and then we also have a really big uh like culture of um commissioning artwork and so
uh there are people here even in this chat um so who uh commission artworks uh or or who like
take commissions so it's kind of takes as an idea and a little bit of like uh catalyst yeah and
there's lots of ways lots of ways
this is fantastic you know that this is like after after so many twitter spaces that we've done so far
you know and talking to founders i think i think we already know the recipe for the successful project
and it's a lot a lot of work with the community you know and you guys doing crazy stuff i loved it i
loved it i love to hear that because that's really great because you hear all the time you know that
we have these characters and then like people's gonna create stories but like you have you have to
incentivize and help people somehow to create also the stories right and it's awesome that you guys
doing all of this what you're doing even the twitter's twitter spaces every single week
and helping people create like uh now i got it that when i see like the book of book of lore and
everything that you guys have so much content and it makes so much sense now because you you you're
motivating and like you know like giving people tools to create and i also saw land that you're
going to be selling some land oh yes yeah so in the runeverse game uh the runeverse game you there's
uh you can buy land when we drop that we still have to decide we want to do it so the runeverse
land sale we uh so let me roll back okay the game is an mmo rpg it's a pixelated but the gameplay
is a lot more like world of warcraft right so there's like a social hangout loop there's like a resource
harvesting and crafting loop um and then there's like a sort of uh like a questing battling beat
monsters uh loop and so you know you can go and you can battle monsters get items um and get gold and
resources um you squad up with your team use different spells really really fun going to dungeons
and then you can also harvest resources and then use them to craft um both items and you know almost all
the items i think are going to be customizable right um and especially if you own property you
can customize your house right and so the customizations of your housing there is going
to be as rich as like any 10k collection that you've seen um the different like paints and colors and
materials you'll be able to use and so you need to own land in order to build houses and their
different plot sizes um and then when you own land you also can build infrastructure and if you've
built infrastructure then uh that means that the the yield that comes out of that land um you
actually can set and take a tax um from the resources that are harvested so for example you
can invest in infrastructure on your property um let's say i build you know this apple orchard and
then when other people come and harvest apples uh on my land because it's you know really fertile or
whatever um then i'll also get a tax on the resources that they harvest so that's part of the
mechanics of owning land in the game we did sold um about uh 13 percent of the land to uh in a private
sale earlier this year to investors uh the lead in that round was dialectic so dialectic is led by
ryan zur who uh who famously uh owns people uh people one uh and we also had participation in that
round from uh alexis ohenian's seven seven six uh one confirmation um and a handful of other just like
fantastic investors um and so yeah we sold some land in that round and that fund those funds were being
used you know largely to help fund the game so the game is a development is that's you know well underway
um we were going to do the public land sale really it was scheduled about i think three weeks
after the luna crash and when luna crashed and the whole market crashed we just realized
you know what we'd better just like hold on to this and um and just wait a little bit we had
enough funding so the development wasn't sort of stunted in any way um but yeah so i think that the
date of launch of the land sale is tbd you know the market is so weird right and so far as like
you basically have to sell out right if you don't sell out then all of a sudden you're facing this like
weird headwind and so um you you know i still don't think like that today is the day for us to
launch it and we have to kind of wait and see a little bit so we've got plenty of time being very
patient it's going to be a super fun game um you know we wanted to kind of not be like some other
games that sort of sell you this land token a year ahead of time and you you're just like speculating
and trading it like we wanted you to be able to at least like hop in the game and walk around
um on the day that you buy it you should at least be able to use it a little bit and so um you know
whether that was the right choice for us financially who knows right we maybe could have blown it out
during the bull market uh now we have to wait but whatever we're gonna it's gonna be a great game
and people are gonna love it really the idea is that we're gonna bring in a lot of out people
outside of crypto um into crypto through this kind of game right it's it's it's it'll hopefully
appeal to both non-crypto people and crypto people alike so very very excited about it um tbd when that
drops so you answered my next question which was yeah when's the land dropping so i actually think i
agree with you like a lot of people say oh you know you just release when you release if if you've
said you're going to release on this date or if you're building towards this date you just drop
then and the reality is is that you need to be able to be adaptive and pivot and and as a
holder of of you know uh your assets actually as a community member i'd get behind you and say yeah
no i don't think this is a good time to drop and it's not that you're kind of manipulating it to drop
in a in a bull market so that you can sell out but the reality is is that traction is kind of
everything in this space and there are some really really really good projects that just don't make it
based on timing so um i think i think that's the right decision i think being adaptive and being able
to pivot you know is is really important yeah we suffered from that even with our warriors drop so
for example our warriors drop was quite hyped um we started with a dutch auction that was going to that
was going to descend down and our community was actually like complaining frustrated that it would
sell out at the top of the dutch auction we used pre-ment and even after filtering for bots we had
more pre-ment registries um than moonbirds right we had announced um that derrick kolstad the creator
of john wick was like doing our television show right like we dropped we we kind of lined the marketing
up um you know you know if i do say so myself perfectly um and then really our drop our drop was
the day that luna failed and we basically were messaging everyone saying like what do we do do we go do
we wait do we hold it like what do we do um i called dota that morning and i go no one wants to
buy an nft today yeah yeah but it's true though and that's that that's the thing you know there are
terrible projects that do incredibly well in the bull market and really good projects that do really
bad based based on timing and that was not only the bear you know we're not only in the bear market
but that particular event i think just you know disenchanted a lot of people about crypto and nfts in
general so so again i feel like you made the right decision and i'm sure you you know spoke to the
community about it and and that's probably the direction that they wanted you to take anyway
well we went yeah we went we we hit the go button and we we we still launch and you know all things
considered in hindsight we did pretty well on that day relative to what it could have been so uh you
know but i think i just want to kind of use everything like it's sorry beast very quickly i just want
to give a quick shout out to juan snow in the audience i think it's the juan snow the john snow
that i'm thinking of but he um i think he was the person that first mentioned loot project and i was
keeping an eye on it for for uh silly tuna and i seen juan snow was was the one that tweeted i actually
faded the tweet unfortunately i think by the time i got to it was like a 12v floor i didn't buy it at
12v i got it for like 1.6 but yeah big shout out to you juan snow and i don't know yeah if that
reaper's party that that's a dope bfp that he's got there you should see his collection or he or she
they um were posting pictures of all their souls they went really hard in on on burning wizards which
which you know it's dota's lifetime dream to have all of all of the sacred claims used to burn wizards
um and i support him in that but juan has gone so hard and the collection is just unbelievable souls
i'm not sure if i'm allowed to say it but i think souls is my favorite like art collection like just
yeah incredible i i you all know nothing john snow well he definitely they definitely know something
about the market because uh i'm like an alpha dog and and and he's found some alpha way before me
based on the old tweets so big shout out the alpha channel in the wizards discord i don't really have
time to to do it or to pay attention but everybody keeps talking about how incredible the alpha channel
yeah it's really good it's as good as any alpha channel i i've paid to be a part of so yeah really
really love the folks there beast go ahead oh i was just about to say like uh about that bear market
bull market like i think like as long as you guys building like long term it i mean of course it's more
difficult now to raise money but otherwise like it doesn't matter uh because like you're you're already
like so much ahead with all the lore and storytelling and uh one of the reasons is also that you guys on
the market already one and a half years and like when new projects start uh now creating stories and
like launch nfts and pfps and try to create like stories around like it it takes time i mean you you guys
know that like you know you you like we like for example here we like uh chimpers right we playing
those battles and stuff and again i mean you can see a big difference when the project is on the
market for some time already and we have the memories we have the stories you know over some period of
time it's a big difference so and that's why it's so important to have a project and ip that people
really care about like for real right because um because when you think about it from like a trading
mentality there's always this like risk reward trade-off and you when you have a brand new project
um there's a bit of an asymmetric bet where you're like well i may as well just buy this new lottery
ticket because it's brand new on the market i buy my ticket and i just like take the ride and like i'm
gonna buy a new mint and then you know you'll see that happen this whole year right that'll happen
every day there's some new project that um uh that you buy in because it's very very cheap because it
just came out right and so that's actually a serious problem that projects um of our cohort will have
which is like okay it's a year later it's two years later three years later like do you really care
about like perfect puffer fish and like the lore of those characters three years later and so like in
some cases yes and like that's and in some cases many cases 99 of cases the answer is going to be no
and so so i think that's why for us this this focus on um rewarding creators more and then also just
like genuinely truly deep down like enjoying the stories and the lore and like we're not cynical about
it we really like what we're building like we love that we're building this like open source lord of
the rings and that's like something that we want to exist in the world and so we'll do whatever it
takes to make that happen and so um yeah and not to not to you know again we we don't like talking
about floors but the fact that your floor is so healthy after 18 months look how many projects came
out you know that that took the popular playbook at the time and you know were two three if at the
time and you know now they're 0.1 if if they're lucky storytelling nfts is kind of like the
recent narrative and a lot of projects have just been starting up and be like oh yeah we're a
story storytelling or law-based project because that seems to have been successful but you guys
started 18 months ago you know and kind of one of the first to to really do that so there's
credibility and i don't necessarily think just because law is a good you know a good foundation
for a successful project that every project that comes out now um is going to be successful or should
be yeah and i think one of the great things about wizards is that like everyone has a mental
model of what a wizard is and and and and and really the stories that we tell and the stories
that always last are based on these like timeless archetypes right um the reason that like these
stories a story that resonates with everyone is something that you know has no to be true deep down
right and we're telling stories of like adventure and bravery and betrayal and love gained and love lost
and so these things are timeless and and and everyone it resonates with people as soon as you see it
guys i saw that you have uh five point uh sorry two point five percent uh secondary royalties
do you have some do you have some like business um you know revenue stream or in in head in in your
mind or you know because that's a big topic right now with marketplaces you know they are you can you
can actually sell nfts without any realities and stuff so i think this is a big topic right now
yeah i'd love to hear your opinions on that oh i have so many opinions okay great so okay there's a few
things wait i'm rod what are we talking about uh we were talking about um i can't think of anything
stupid to say royalties there's something something related to snakes we were talking about bears yeah
uh so yeah go ahead i was gonna say if uh no it's it's it's a terrible question but if if a if a hunter
was to follow a bear one mile in a straight line due south and then he followed the bear one mile in a
straight line due east and then he follows the bear one mile in a straight line due north and he
ends up in the exact same same place that he was that's what we're talking about what color is the
bear oh no it's just like mince i feel like i should know the answer to this yeah everyone knows the
answer if they really think about it yeah what's the color of the bear man it's black brown or white
wrong wrong right yeah because there's only one spot on the whole planet i know one mile in a
straight line south east or west and then north and end up in the same place yeah the trigonometry
lesson but no we were talking about royalty sorry i no no you're fine um so okay well royalties
are one of the great things that set nfts apart from like traditional art right when you um you
know uh when like elf sits down to talk to other artists who are outside the nft space and say why
you should join nfts one of the main things is like it's really two parts one it's that you know
we've been posting our artwork on instagram twitter pinterest um tumblr for years for free right and you
have all these incredibly talented artists that are just languishing on the vine because they can't
make any money at it right you have these sites like fiverr and 99 designs where just like artists
are digital artists aren't valued and so with nfts we finally had this digital renaissance over the past
couple of years where artists can finally get paid for their work and it's not just in the initial
mints it's also in this idea of this perpetual royalty right you'll get you'll get a share every
time your art is traded i mean frankly it's surprising actually that you don't have artist
royalties in the traditional art world because it makes so much sense right that like if the artist
becomes better known and then their work gets traded should really the person who bought the original
artwork be the only person that benefits from that no like because if you want like everyone has to
eat and pay their rent and so if you want new art to be created then like pay artists for their value
it's a very small fee in terms of the royalties that we've been seeing relative to kind of like
the growth of of the underlying asset and so to me i think that it's a very like good social cycle to
have these ongoing royalties particularly when you have something uh like a pfp project or something
that's actually trying to provide ongoing utility right like a project like ours this idea that kind of
people pay royalties back to forgotten runes when you have effectively is this like serious team of
professionals that are working day in day out to like make the project better and we're trying to
build a video game and a television show and merch and stuffies and like uh sprite sheets and 3d models
right like we are working all day every day to like make the project better and to make the project
more valuable and so it's like if you take royalties and cut that to zero then how are we going to make
money okay there's two ways that we're going to make money one one is a bad way and that would be
inflation so we can make more assets right we can make more assets we can do more characters we can
do more drops but what does that do to the people who are already holding the assets really you have
this only fixed set of liquidity that kind of gets assigned to teams that's how people think about it
is they say you know like oh i'm only going to put so much money into you know elf dota and bear snake
and like even if we create a new collection you know that we're behind it you're not you're you're
going to like kind of calculate the risk that risk portion of your portfolio to a certain size and
like even if we do a new collection it's all the same pool of capital because you trust us as a team
and so if the only way that we can make money is by just issuing new assets like i mean well
that that isn't good for people who hold it because you're diluting the value of
the pool of assets that they already hold um and the other way that you can make money is by
making money on the ip and this is one of the reasons that i'm actually quite skeptical of
creative commons it's why i'm quite skeptical of cc0 because um you know with let's take nouns for
example right um i think that they're the the best example of cc0 they probably will do a good job
there because they have when you buy into nouns the money goes to the treasury and then they're using
that treasury to be able to like pitch the brand fair enough um but one of the problems with cc0 is
that you can't actually monetize the ip itself and nouns explicitly says that they say we don't want
to monetize the ip we want to monetize uh the provenance like the tokens the value goes back to
the provenance of the tokens okay but when you look at there's a wikipedia page look at the wikipedia page
for the highest grossing franchises of all time like seriously pull it up on your pull it up on your
computer when you look at that page it actually breaks down how these franchises uh make money so
the franchises up top are like hello kitty uh winnie the pooh star wars harry potter like you know
marvel universe um and when you look at how those franchises make money pokemon number one it's done
120 billion in like lifetime revenue and 80 billion of that is merch um if you look at like star wars um i
think whatever whatever it is like 80 billion dollars 60 billion of that is merch something like
that you look at hello kitty 82 billion dollars 100 merch well if your project if the ip of your
project is creative commons and i can use your ip for no money then that merch number instead it goes
to zero right so when you look at these franchises and the majority of the the revenue is merch and if
you don't have to license the ip to create the merch that number goes to zero and so one of the
things about forgotten runes is that it's not creative commons we actually do hold some degree
of copyright um the holders can uh monetize their character royalty free up to five million dollars
so that means if you own a token you can create um whatever you want you can make four million nine
hundred thousand dollars which is far far more than 99 people are going to make with their character
before you owe any royalties back and then it's actually uncapped then you owe a royalty back to
magic machine and then also to the dow split 50 50 and so we basically just put this cap super high
because we know that we're going to create a global franchise and we want to make sure that if you're going
to create a triple a movie or triple a video game um that you actually have to come and talk to us
because i think when you look at like um creative commons ip right so this would be pinocchio uh beauty
and the beast cinderella snow white right all these are in the public domain now and who do you think
of immediately when you think of those stories you think of disney and and so if disney ever does
decide to make a movie about nouns like they're going to actually copyright all of their interpretations
right away right i think that's creative commons is actually a centralizing force it just hasn't
played out in nfts yet whereas if disney wanted to make a forgotten runes movie they'd have to sit down
and talk to us and negotiate with our community and deal with it in in a way that that it has
works for us so uh all that to say that's a little bit more about ip rights but i think that like if
royalties go to zero it breaks a fundamental like incentive aligning structure between creators and
their community because like now the creators have to make money a different way that actually isn't as
well aligned as the holders and you can't make merch unless you've built a brand you know there's no
point there's no point coming out with a with a with a 10k collection and using merch straight away
as the revenue stream when you haven't built that presence um already because you're either just
going to sell to people or you're not going to sell anything and either way it's not benefiting
the the community so i 100 sorry beast i see you've come off mute and i keep uh i keep cutting ahead of
you but no worries bro but um but yeah no i i 100 agree with you i think you know first of all i think
artists musicians artists photographers i think they should just be able to like the qql qql project
like just stick it in the contract bake it into the contract and and completely um you know force
those royalties and if you want to have but it's not possible like that have a minimum it doesn't
work like that right okay but but for me like nouns nouns is um all the all the value goes back into
the dow doesn't it so i can see nouns actually becoming a huge goliath one day and it's you know
going to be this decentralized company that's basically hopefully as big as who knows one day
could be as big as facebook or something like that but you know it's owned by the the the down
members so the power that that would have would be amazing but the the royalties thing like you you
cannot produce you can't build without that revenue stream and those other revenue streams come later
once you've established yourself so i 100 agree with you on that so interesting guys because most of
the pfp projects will have listening to dota say again mate yeah oh for some reason i keep cutting
in and out but i was just saying i could listen to dota talk about that topic for hours we need to
like get them on cnbc or something yeah no 100 because it's it's it's really good points that he's
made and it's a it's a hot topic and currently you know the marketplaces are trying to get more
market share from open sea and they're coming out with these techniques which is basically a race to
the bottom in my opinion but um but yeah go on beast yeah that like like most of the pfps will have to
think about this and like like as you guys think like you cannot like inflate the collections like
then if there are zero percent royalties like you don't have like the the regular income like i guess
like temporarily you can you can fix it that you raise money by uh through vcs right but eventually
still you have to become profitable so then like you have this marriage but for marriage like as you
said as you met as i said like you need to create a brand and to create a brand like i guess like you
need to have more than like 10 000 dgens so you have to you have to really like on board or you really
have to become known so that you know like millions of people know the ip and they're buying the merge
and so vc funding shouldn't be like a must you know i mean if a project wants to do it
in a more decentralized manner then that should be possible as well and and without the facility to
you know generate revenue you've kind of you're pushed to go down that route or or all it will do
is it will um incentivize people to run quicker they'll they'll produce a project they'll sell out and
they go well i'm not taking that risk to go and build this thing and and really build value and
you know keep working on this law and have all these people you know spending a lot of hours and
time they'll just release the project go okay we're not going to get in royalties now see you later
so what is the best solution for that
and the the vc funding thing too is very interesting so you know we've considered taking vc funding we've had
some opportunities and i think that like yeah it can make sense so for example like if you have a
specific goal in mind that you like need to create something sometimes adding that money can like really
help because you can get like basically get the right allies on your side you can do something that
you couldn't do before you can structure it so it's good for everyone but in many cases actually
it's not like what you basically have is the vcs are buying something like often equity in a company
which the token holders don't actually have and so that's kind of weird right it's kind of weird to
have um you know your token holders kind of view themselves as owners in the project but then the vcs
actually sort of have the rights and so when it comes down to it like if there's ever a conflict
it's the owners of the like let's say company uh that maybe get priority and so i mean never say
never right there might be a time where we need to do it but but still it's not lost on me that
there's a bit of a conflict there and like you said even if you do that um you have to make money
at some point and so then merch merch for most nft projects it certainly is for ours is actually a
loss leader right so like it's actually a marketing expense you're you're basically trying to kind of
like let's call it fake it till you make it and you're getting these ideas out into the world
right there is something really special about seeing your brand on a physical piece of merch you
know on murals all these things and but it's really that's one of the reasons why the tv show is so
important to us because you know we could probably get you know our quantum style t-shirt and let's say
hot topic or something but like if nobody knows about the brand retailers are not going to have a shirt
that loses money on the shelf right so if people just walk by it or it won't sell and then it's like
no we tried forgotten room sorry whereas if you have a television show and they walk by the
quantum style t-shirt they're like oh quantum style i love that show like i'm totally going to get that
merch and so it turns your merch from a lost leader marketing expense into basically like a revenue
generating center and so yeah the tv show is basically part of that plan man with the merch is 100 true you
know i made a small collection of t-shirts and you know there's no way to make money not to be even
break even you know because if you make like 60 t-shirts and you want to keep like a good quality
with something like you know you basically sell them for less that you that you create them because
you know so it's more like a gift or something like that so it's very interesting yeah and not
everyone can be supreme or bayc and you know be able to sell it on the secondary marketplace to make
that money back but going back to the tv show thing you wouldn't be able to make that tv show if you
didn't have other revenue streams other than much yep that's right that's right yeah no you need you
need these big billboards you need these big expressions that you know talk to other people
besides the what there's what there's like maybe a million people that own an nft and crypto wallet
that is so insanely small it's crazy to think that that's that group is holding up this whole space
i just think you know talk about a race to the bottom um i i just don't think that's sustainable
it's it's an echo chamber you know and so when you see you know we can we can you know argue or discuss
about reddit nfts and what that means and they're pumping and they're not pumping but the reality is is
the more people that get used to the concept of taking ownership of a digital asset that's what this is
about you know this is about this is about having 50 million people this is about having a billion
people two billion people um and it's going to look super duper duper duper different and we're going
to be talking to our grandkids and and however long hopefully not too soon um and um we're going
to be talking about these days because this is like this is like this is the beginning yeah we're in
the 80s pretty much yeah when it core royalties you know so there are like a few royalty market free
marketplaces that are interesting that provide like unique functionality so let's say like nftx or
like pseudo swap right so i think those are interesting because they're a lot more like defy
primitives than just sort of like an open sea clone and i think that like you know i wouldn't mind if
those services had like baked in royalties in the beginning right it seems like almost antagonistic
to nft creators to not include it but you can kind of see it because they're they're different right
so for example we've given airdrops to people who uh have were using nftx for example because
um as a project even if we don't get royalties from those pools it's beneficial to us because
the community has liquidity right so i know that if i need to like uh buy or sell really quickly
there's this like deep pool of liquidity so wizards i think is i don't know the exact numbers but we're
like three or four on um liquidity depth on nftx and i know that warriors are up there as well i think
they're top 10 and i think that like that's like it's good it's it's it plays a role plays a function
as much as we're like maybe annoyed that we don't get royalties there um we know the people who kind of
hold those assets i've even seen some of them here in this chat and we're not like bothered by it
because it provides a function but then for the marketplaces that are just basically open c clones
and then to just like cut out creator royalties by default it's just like it to me it just feels
like killing the golden goose right it's just like you're just like breaking the incentives across the
whole system and fine we can argue and say like yeah it was inevitable or like if people don't have
to pay fees they're not going to pay them fine but like it's just crazy to me that you would go
through the effort to go build like an entire nft marketplace and they'd be like buyers get paid
sellers get paid we get seller we get paid and like creators get basically nothing it's just like
like how do you expect create like creators like for example i'm not gonna like promote looks rare
anymore like i'm we'll take it off our website like we're not like i'm not going to tell people
to lose use looks rare because it's just like if they're not going to scratch our back why would
we scratch theirs yeah exactly and that's that's probably the next step isn't i don't know can
can projects um like can can projects decide to not have their assets on the marketplace for example
like um looks rare you know and i i really liked looks rare when they first launched as well so you
know it's a shame but um but like the other deeds for example um i think there are some new looks
where rewards that if you like list or buy at floor that you get you get rewards so basically
people are just botting it they're they're listing at floor buying at floor buying off each other i think
one of the people i looked at their name was like i buy everything back and it's just like they're just
destroying the floor of other deeds because to get these to get these royalties and i'm thinking why
don't yuga labs just go ahead and take it off that marketplace so is that possible i i don't know
the answer but i don't think so in most cases you're not able to like well so technically you
can kind of include okay the qql thing um is like you can basically um deny list contracts and say like
well you can set up controls where like you won't let your your assets be traded on these certain
contracts there's basically two problems with this doing this at scale one is that um
uh one is that it's quite a centralizing force right because you could so um if someone has the
control to deny list certain contracts they also could deny list um other contracts like your gnosis
safe for example and so that's actually quite a risk as a collector that like you might like you know
say the wrong thing and then all of a sudden you don't have access to your assets right i mean a lot
like usdc frankly where they can like blacklist your address um and the other part is that even then
um you can wrap you could actually technically wrap the tokens right and so um this idea that like you
when you own your token you're able to like send it to another contract that's part of the like
composability of nfts um just the nature of the system um which means you could actually create a new
token which it gets created every time you like deposit the so so you take the nft that's like
deny listed on these markets you wrap it in another token and then you can trade that new
token on the markets so it's kind of a cat and mouse game and part you're on the defense you're
actually the mouse as the creator because once you've deployed your contracts um you know in most
cases you can't change it at all um and so like for us for example we deployed wizards over a year ago
when it wasn't an issue and now it is we can't go back and change the wizard tokens to sort of like
force royalties it's just like we're at the whim of the most creative solidity developer that's
trying to circumvent royalties which is frankly always going they're always going to find something
kind of new that you didn't really think of or you have to constrain your ownership um the meaning of
ownership on chain to be so small that it's actually a risk for like decentralized ownership
on the collector side does that make sense yeah a hundred percent you know and this is kind of sad
for me because when i enter the space you know the royalties were one of the things that were amazing
you know that you can actually support the artist forever you know so this is kind of bummer and i hope
it will be somehow fixed you know there'll be some way around how to how to fix this but
yeah methodic you want to add something to this no no it's just yeah no i agree it's basically going
back to web 2 isn't it it's it's kind of like and why on earth would you have a marketplace earning
more royalties than than the creators you know on every collection that they've got listed and um
yeah it just it it kind of the whole thing as gary v would say you know for them to be paid in
perpetuity it's like yeah now it's gone with this right so it's part of it that whole decentralized
aspect with spotty wi-fi for example with music you know you get spotify you'll have somebody that
that has thousands of streams and they get like 17 dollars or something ridiculous it's crazy and
to have that kind of distributed value across you know collectors listeners viewers um community
members and the artists and then the decentralized marketplace for me is an essential part of of web
free it's kind of part and parcel of it so to take that away yep it's a step backwards guys i would i
would like to switch to one one important thing for me because we mentioned the the lord of the
rings you know and such a huge names here and we are all here in web 3 you know and we are here
trying to push this space you know you're pushing a lot uh what is your vision for the future you know
on your side it's like that you are the next great fantasy franchise so what's your vision for like
the future we talk about uh you know one two billion people in this space and i'm sure that it will
happen sooner or later and i think you know having having these projects and having the the or the
storytelling that you're doing it can be like incredible opportunity for the future so we'd like
to know your your thoughts on this yeah well i think that the plan for forgotten runes is um trying to
become a household name even outside of crypto right so we want to be able to create a television show
that you can sit down with your kids uh on you know a sunday afternoon and open up netflix or whatever
and and sit and watch the series and then from there um you know we're creating uh merch that you'll be
able to sort of like buy and own and um and then we're also creating a video game which we hope will bring
in um thousands if not hundreds of thousands of of of new people into crypto um because it's basically
like an mmo that's fun first but that's backed by crypto ownership and so we expect to have both this
like thriving media ecosystem and also thriving thriving video game we're working on our comics this
year so we have the next um six comics written already we're doing 10 comics um um and you know as
as we mentioned before um these aren't just sort of like little web comics that we're writing
ourselves we're actually getting um artists and writers that have worked on on huge comics and um
we'll have some more to announce there in terms of like the publisher as well but um so but we expect
to have comics that you can like physically have so we've been handing out our comics at comic-con
right they're not digital comics that are supposed to be this kind of like you know elite collectible
item we want like your kids to be able to like sit down and read them and enjoy them and so
um and then from there like the the the nfts themselves of course we want to build even more
in terms of like storytelling tools we want to build more tools so that way like people can build and
create on them so that's everything from kind of um like video games and like telling stories to um
uh well like to be able to create entire businesses around your character right like imagine if for
example you owned the character pikachu or you owned you know the character hermione granger and so
like there's an entire business that could be built around the ip of that character and i think
we want to have this symbiotic relationship where we include characters and scenes and things in our
television show and our and our stories that we tell and then the owners actually can kind of
monetize across those so yeah we basically just see it as this like um well uh as bear likes to say
we're redefining the relationship between fan and franchise and if those if those fans community
members uh whatever you want to call them are contributing to their character and you utilize
that ip in your video game then you can reward them without it being security is that right
so yeah that's very important so we are have worked on um we are working with our lawyers
on a system where uh we believe that we will be able to license the ip of the characters from our
creators um and so this won't necessarily trigger securities laws because um well in intellectual
property there there's actually a long kind of um tradition of licensing ip in the case that like
licensing the ip is sort of your business and so um we'll have more details to release on this in
the next few months but the the basic idea it looks something like if we create a television show
that includes forgotten runes there will be ways for um people to uh opt into licensing their ip to
the vehicle that creates that show so um you know there are things that we could probably do quicker
here but one of the things that's important to me is that like when we set it up there's actually
money coming in and it's and it's this thing that we always talk about which is like okay you can
have the best ip rights in the world but if you don't have an ip anyone cares about like who cares and so
that's it yeah we are building a structure um we're building out a system we're calling binary star
right so um binary meaning like the nfts being code and then star being like kind of like a hollywood
star and this this is basically a system whereby you'll be able to like register your nfts and then
organizations can kind of connect and pay you for uh the nfts and so this won't be necessarily even
just for forgotten runes holders right this could apply to any of the um projects in the space but
that's still in the laboratory we are i it'll probably be like early here before we actually
ship that guys what would you recommend if someone want to enter the cult uh yeah you know what would
be what would be the best steps to start pick up a wizard or warrior and i think that really just
depends on kind of your appetite um for like how you like to treat right if you're sort of the person
who likes blue chips you want the elite collection you want sort of like the first then uh pick up a
wizard um uh and i think that like like a lot of projects that feel complicated on the outside
you know i know that for me for example i can't actually really learn the mechanics of something
new until i actually have like put money on the table nfts or and in coins are always like yeah so
i think pick up a wizard and then all of a sudden you'll sort of like have a new set of friends
who will be like interested in kind of helping you get on board and then if you decide that you'd
like you know maybe a whole wizard is a little bit too much the warrior floor is yeah i think 0.2 or
something right now so there um they also have access to the book of lore it's an entire character
we have walk cycles sprite sheets you'll be able to play them in the video game eventually
um so yeah that that's the best way to get started even though we have a lot of like collections
dynamics mechanics um there's there's no sort of the important thing is really i wouldn't worry too much
about rarity but just buy one that you vibe with right that like buy a character that that resonates
with you rather than like worrying too much about like oh is it claimed for this or is the rarity
that it's like no pick one that you want to kind of adopt as your character that you can see yourself
telling stories about because that's really what makes the difference in our project yeah i'll be
looking because i i really like bears and i really like snakes so i'll be looking for some like
bear snakes if you want to be fighting fighting a balrog in in in moria then you gotta gotta get a
wizard and for people who joined later we talk about it like some of the wizards they have already
the lore written from the previous owners right so it might be worth checking also like what is the
story behind the wizard yeah and you can find so the website where you could most easily find that
is if you look at our forgotten dot market um and then when you find the token there you could you
know if you're more familiar with openc you can look at openc and then cross reference on forgotten
dot market um that said though you know we have in the past used lore as like a qualification for
airdrops right and so even if you have uh a wizard that has lore from someone else that's still counted
as good in my book and so you know some people like lore some people don't so yeah it's worth
checking out but even if you know if that's too much work you can you can always hide the lore if
you find you you end up ended up with lore you didn't like but most of it's good i also think like
just just go to come into the discord our discord is so friendly um and there's always at least a half
a dozen people um ready to answer any questions or point in the right direction we have a buyer's guide
uh up on wizardpedia which is our which is like our version of wikipedia um so yeah i'd say the
discord's also just a great place if you you want to poke around and ask questions wizardpedia i love
it yeah well grateful and i did exactly that yesterday when we were knocking on the door well
i i came in because grateful was awkwardly talking to me while on off mute so he's having a phone
conversation with me on on facetime while he's off mute in the in the chat so i come and join the
chat and yeah i all i all i will say is it's one of the most welcoming friendly you know informative
communities i've i rarely joined discord voice chats but i had a really really great first impression
from there um i just want to take a moment to say what is that pfp baron in the audience what have you
done what is that uh sick it's like an ogre that's the world something something bad happened to
baron man i never i never played wow but but it looks like baron did i love baron what's up baron
hey welcome to pop up on stage mate we're probably gonna wrap it up soon but uh you're welcome to come
up yeah i just had explained yourself yeah i got a jet tune too
yeah guys so it was a pleasure thank you so much for sharing all the stuff i'm going i'm going to read
and i'm going to to discord right now you know it was very very nice space uh thank you so much
i will quickly i will just quickly shield the next week we have a zeneca on tuesday
on thursday we have a twitter space grateful show live from hyde park or somewhere in london so
you can meet us there we're gonna have some stickers t-shirts whatever pop and on sunday we're gonna have
uh nft london summary wrap up or whatever happened there so that's gonna be pack week
and thank you so much guys uh you are real wizards i really love that thank you for having us it's been
such a joy yeah thank you yeah you all are great thank you for hosting spaces and and talking about
real topics and you know you have you have a new you have a new listener thank you amazing yeah no
been an absolute pleasure chatting with you guys today uh really appreciate you coming on and uh
yeah you've you've definitely got me intrigued so i'll be with grateful they're doing the uh
doing the digging in the discord so um yeah thanks again thank you so much also guys thank you
take care ciao you're you're the real wizards and real story dollars incredible
love them love them love them or as beast and grateful we used to say vision vision are you a
vision it's no vision you usually say water you know american english accent you know not a
they swap w's for v's and v's for the bro don't don't forget we're in london in two days
yeah this is true punch you you still have 609 push-ups to do exactly right bear snake thank you so
much mate thank you so much thank you so much thanks for reaching out you're fantastic this won't
be the last time we chat no absolutely yeah we'd love to do this again amazing man we're excited for
the future let's go and i really love your bear snake so i gotta be following you and you know if you
can share the seed phrase sometime with me you know i'd be happy but we'll see you know oh for
sure yeah yeah right first word second word third bear fourth snake that that's a my seed phrase guys
don't be you know don't say that wait how do you guys know the beginning of my seed phrase
take it easy mate have a good one man enjoy your weekend see you man thank you thank you so much
man thank you everyone yeah guys thank you so much for listening and uh do we have anything else to
announce no zen zenica on tuesday is pretty massive so that was that was enough of an announcement on
tuesday and on thursday you can see us in the real life so it is gonna be something and if you can find
doing metasic will be doing push-ups during the spaces next time on thursday i would if you want some
fat dude panting down down some apple ear fights i will absolutely not be doing that
we'll see we'll see we'll see thank you so much guys for listening have a great weekend enjoy
and let's go yo let's fucking go thank you so much see you on tuesday
i'm going to runiverse man that's drama
you motherfuckers
oh i see metasic he's so lovely
is he doing is he doing push-ups no he's half naked
wait that's his second job no we said we're not talking about that
gg's guys
see you next week let's go on tuesday
and let's fucking go all-time high guys that's what we need let's go
yo yo yo thank you so much guys let's fucking go see you on tuesday
and i'm living at an all-time high
it's official i'm the king of parts haters gave me motivation
even the coronavirus couldn't stop my coronation
my love is still hot diamond hands and termination
i'm spotty wi-fi five five two eight
and we all go baby
i dox myself so if you need me you know where to find me
i'm certified don't need no web slice to verify me
let's go guys have a great weekend thank you for listening and see you and hear you on tuesday let's fucking go
