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$HBAR HEDERA DEFI in 2025 is about to 👀
Recorded: Sept. 10, 2025 Duration: 1:12:36Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion about the Hedera ecosystem, participants highlighted significant growth indicators, including SaucerSwap's impressive $4 billion trading volume and the launch of innovative projects like a token for IoT applications. The conversation also emphasized the importance of community engagement, partnerships, and the potential for institutional interest in driving further adoption of Hedera's DeFi capabilities.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. All right, what's going on, everybody?
Welcome to Wolf.
Happy Wednesday.
Happy hump day.
It's happy hump day, and it's also the middle the day, in the middle of the week as well.
So it's great to have everyone here. Excited to get into this conversation.
A 1.30pm Eastern space.
Don't do these too often, but we've got a crew, man.
We've got a crew today. We've got a Hedera account up here co-hosting with us.
Plenty of the crew here as well. I see Dave up on stage.
It's been a while, Dave. We have Nat up on stage.
We have SaucerSwap as well.
We're going to talk a little bit of DeFi
and talk about the world of Hedera as well,
figure out what's going on over on the world of Saucer,
why they chose Hedera,
what everyone's thoughts are on what's going on in the DeFi world,
new developments, things like that.
Figure these are the people to talk to.
So, look, we got some awesome people, like I said.
Be sure to give them a follow and retweet the space if you're into this stuff if you're
into hederas if you want people to get into the conversation and please retweet the space
quote to the space tag a friend it's the bottom right corner the little purple pill down there
if you hit that button easiest way to support really appreciate it um but yeah anyways let me
throw it over to uh to nat real quick and i guess do a little bit of a mic check and also maybe a couple words on why you're interested in Hedera, why you spend so much time here, or if it's DeFi that you're really more excited to talk about as well.
Thanks for having me, Kate.
I mean, I'm happy to be here.
You know, I host my own Hedera show, Hedera Spotlight, with Leon.
He's an OG in the Hedera space every Friday at 8 p.m. ESD.
It's been a vibe.
It's been such a great time getting to know these individuals
behind these certain products.
And I've been saying it for a very long time.
Hedera is currently undervalued.
The things that can be built on Hedera,
the stuff that you can do, the scalability,
the adaptability, the cross-border applications
that can be built, that can be done on Hedera,
it's mind-blowing. When I came to Hedera, that's one of the things that attracted me the most,
right? The amount of things you can build on Hedera without blowing a budget, right? If we
compare it to other blockchains, it can get quite expensive, but with Hedera your money goes a longer way but besides that I'm
excited I'm excited to tap into this conversation I've been I've been looking forward to speaking
with saucer twos for a while I know they've been on our radar for a moment too I'm happy to dive
into it yeah totally totally Dave let me throw you the mic and say what's up to you how are you
hey what's good man thank you for having me. Shout out to the whole Wolf Squad.
Appreciate you guys having me up here with my fellow co-host, of course, Nat Nat.
This is slowly becoming my favorite space now because Nat Nat literally just said Hedera about 50 times in a matter of like two sentences.
And we could like, you know, we got to pry it out of her on our show. So I'm here for it.
And SaucerSwap, I was on to you guys way back when.
I remember I was calling you guys at three, four cents.
And I was like, this text is doing numbers.
When you guys were at like 60 or $70 million, I think, in total volume or TV.
I forget which one.
But it was like you guys started cooking
and now I'm seeing almost over $4 billion
you guys have done straight through this year.
I mean, up until now, and you guys are cooking.
So I'm excited to get into some of the stuff you're building.
I want to hear, you know, with, you know,
we were big on Aventus yesterday.
The perps market are going crazy.
I hear you guys are going to start building perps out.
So I'm excited, man.
Like I want to hear what's cooking in this Hedera ecosystem. are going crazy i hear you guys are going to start building perps out so i'm excited man like i want
to hear what's cooking in this head ecosystem and uh yeah talk general defy as well because
defy is i mean people you the lines are starting to get blurred ladies and gents defy trap fi and
it's going to be uh interesting to see who builds what so appreciate you kate thanks for having me
bro yeah man absolutely it's good to hear your voice. And yes, yes, I always try to get, you know,
it sounds so good.
The accent, the Hedera, I mean,
it's just, it's a wonderful combination.
We love it.
We love it.
We're so glad to have you back as well.
And that's, let me throw it over to SaucerSwap.
Yeah.
And get some thoughts over from them as well.
And then, yeah, we'll dive into the conversation,
talk about Hedera, DeFi,
and what's going on in that world,
some SaucerSwap stuff.
But it's great to have you on the space. How are you?
Doing good, doing good.
So behind the icon here, you got Brandon, been in the Hedera ecosystem for a really long time.
Like Nat said, there's so much potential in the space.
Came on with the SaucerSwap team here, but been using SaucerSwap for a really long time,
but came on with the
team to do exactly what we're doing here today, spreading the word on Hedera DeFi.
Totally. And curious on what specifically in Hedera or in the DeFi world kind of got you
going into this direction and building Saucer as well. Like, was it the DeFi element first?
Was it specifically Hedera first? Where'd you start?
No, it was definitely just the, as again, Nat said, the potential of the network and what it
can do. It has a lot of really unique capabilities. You guys that are familiar with
DeFi will understand, you know, the issues with MEV and front running, but because of Hedera's,
it's fair ordering.
It doesn't allow MEV.
And right now, of course,
with the proof of concepts going on in DeFi, it's important.
But once we start to move
into the traditional financial space,
which we can certainly talk a lot more about,
it's gonna become that much more important.
Things like that, it has true finality,
so it's not just probabilistic like a blockchain, but it has true finality in about 2.5 seconds.
It has the gold standard of security.
It has something called ABFT security.
And things like that, you don't necessarily have to just believe Hedera on those things.
Like Carnegie Mellon did a COQ proof to prove out that it has that gold
standard of security. It's the most efficient network on earth, and that was proved out by
University College London, a study that was done between a bunch of different networks,
but in addition, Visa were a thousand times more efficient than Visa. And when you start to tack
those things on top of each other, it's near or at or at or near best in
class in every single one of these attributes so it's really the things
that can be built on top of it but now you know we're starting to see DeFi and
that crossover between that and the traditional financial space really get
exciting especially with some of the tailwinds we're now seeing in the
regulatory space especially in the United States
yeah there's some great points there.
And there's a couple of threads we could go down there.
But, you know, there's definitely, I saw, I'm trying to think who it was.
I think it was CBOE, CBO, Derby's Exchange, or someone else maybe.
Some big institutional players are introducing institutional staking,
like you were mentioning.
And it really is starting to develop in the institutional world.
And so I was like, watch it.
And I was like, guys, that's just crypto.
What are y'all doing?
I mean, that's everything y'all hated on us for.
And y'all are just doing institutional staking.
What is this?
I thought it was so interesting.
But yeah, great points there on Hedera as well.
Nat, I would love to throw you the mic, see if you've got any thoughts on that.
And any questions, thoughts, or anything you want to throw in there as well?
Yeah, all great, great takes.
I agree with everything you said, Brandon.
And again, it's a pleasure speaking with you.
We've been trying to get you on for a moment.
I'm glad I have you here.
I do have a question for you guys.
Are there any list of tokens? Because recently we've seen a massive influx of tokens in Hevera,
right? Especially meme coins and things like that. Do you have a list of tokens that, for example,
this week we're going to like a metrics for token listing? How would that work? What's the procedure? What's the process like?
So Saucerswap itself works like a DAO. Anybody can set up a trading pair, a liquidity pool between two assets, but there's going to be a lot of warnings around it. Be careful
trading these assets until it gets approved through a DAO process. And that goes through our governance token,
is also kind of used as a loyalty point in our sauce token.
But the more sauce you hold,
the more weight you have when it comes to making
governance decisions on the network.
So number one, if you do have a token,
you can go through something called,
well, it depends on what you're trying to launch.
But if you've launched a token on the hedera uh token service or as uh an hcs 20 or something along those
lines you can just create a liquidity pool whenever you want but then you have to go through that
that governance process uh to get um you know we'll say favored status on the network and to
get some of those warnings taken off.
So that's how you would do it.
And you just appeal to your community and get them out there, the ones that hold sauce,
to get you to kick up a few notches.
But, you know, it is, you know, completely decentralized, permissionless.
Like I said, anybody can launch a token pair, can launch a liquidity pool if they'd like.
Awesome. Thank you so much for breaking that down for us, Brendan. I'll hand it back over to Kate. Yeah, great stuff there, Nat. I was actually
going to pass it to Dave, see if he wants to weigh in on the conversation. Yeah, I mean, my curiosity,
honestly, Brendan, is in perps, I've lived through so many other ecosystems where it's like the beginning
life cycle it's the meme coins right like and what nat was saying like like hedera and maybe
saucer kind of might be going going through that now but like four billion dollars in volume doesn't
happen overnight so i'm curious like what are some of the more common things that we're seeing
actually being traded uh maybe on the platform And can you tell us some plans?
Like, what are the plans for, like, the perp decks?
Because those are the real, when I say money makers and volume drivers out here.
So, yeah, just kind of curious your thoughts on that.
My gosh, you took my head in a bunch of different directions there.
So, like what you're saying, the most important thing and the success of a DEX
is going to be based off of the tokens that are traded on top of it, right? And of course,
that's our primary purpose is trading tokens back and forth. But then, of course, you can
provide liquidity as well, which is pairing up two tokens, providing that liquidity, which is
what allows those tokens to essentially be traded. And you get rewarded for providing that liquidity.
We also have single-sided staking with our token, the SOS token, as I mentioned.
But as far as the different tokens that can be traded, of course, we have the Hedera native token, HBAR itself.
And that's probably, we'll call it the numeraire in the space.
That and then the main
stablecoin in our ecosystem is USDC. So the Hedera version of USDC. And those are the two
numeraires in the space. But we have plenty of other tokens that are, one of the things, and
to rewind here a little bit, one of the things about Hed here a little bit one of the things about hedera that keeps me
really excited is it attracts a certain type of builder these are grinders these are people that
don't give up they're they have fantastic ideas that they're really sharp and the amount of tokens
that are being launched on a regular basis on hedera is pretty mind-blowing and one of the
reasons for that is it's not just
done with smart contracts. There's a base layer token service on Hedera that makes spinning up
tokens really easy. But just to go through some of the tokens, we do have the stablecoin as far
as USDC. We have the Swiss franc on Hedera. We have something called carrot, which is backed by
physical diamonds that you can actually trade for physical diamond coins and bars.
And you'd have to look at diamond standard to understand exactly what I'm saying there.
We have a great refi token in Dovu that has been doing really well lately.
As Nat mentioned, we have some meme coins that mostly get launched through something called memejob.fun, kind of like pump fun on Solana. But a great
platform and an easy platform if you just want to spin up and launch a token in a fairly easy way,
that's kind of where I would go. But as far as memes that have done well on Hedera, we have
Grealth, which actually predates memejob. Gibb is probably the one that's leading. We have Dosa.
Jeet just launched. So some good meme coins out there.
Hedera is kind of pioneering SportsFi.
And if anybody knows Karate Combat out there, that's one that I'm really big into.
The token has struggled a bit, but I think that going into the future,
that's really going to be a revolutionary space.
And then there's other SportsFi tokens, underground bowling.
We have Top Flight Football. We have
the World Calisthenics Organization, IoT. We're looking forward to a SEAL coin token
launching on Hedera. And that's another rabbit hole. I could go down. As far as gaming, we have
Earthlings, which already has some mini games out, but their gaming metaverse should be launching
soon. Really excited about them. Full disclosure, I'm actually an advisor for the Earthlings team.
Kind of a serial advisor within the Hedera space.
But Legends of the Past is another really good one.
And then we have Circle of Games.
And I'm not, the app is already out there.
You can learn, earn HBAR through Circle of Games.
But they're going to be launching their own native token, I think, within the next couple months.
Then, of course, we've got platform tokens.
Like I mentioned, we have Sauce, our main wallet. that's probably the first thing you want to do is get
a wallet on hedera and the main one that's used is hash pack and they have a native token called pack
uh centex and uh kbl for kabila and centex there are nft platforms we have as i mentioned meme
job.fun they're going to be launching their token here shortly. There's a great social media platform called Calaxy, and they have their own token.
And the list just goes on.
There's a lot more tokens, of course, but those are some of the ones that pop right into my head right off the bat.
As far as the SaucerSwap roadmap, we've been grinding from the beginning, trying to stay innovative.
New things coming out all the time, and I will get to your question here in a second. But the next thing we have coming up is we're going to
have our own native app. And that's going to be launching within the next few weeks to make
providing that liquidity trading tokens a lot more seamless. And then the next thing we have
in our roadmap is going to be limit orders. So they're going to be coming out before the end
of the year is the plan. And then, of course, that makes it a lot easier for people that are
used to centralized exchanges or brokerage firms or things like along those lines,
and not as used to dealing with liquidity pools that we see on DeFi. And then 2026,
probably H1, we're going to be getting your perps for you. So yeah, we're pretty stacked.
And then the other thing is SausageSwap kind of acts as a primitive but i've been talking for long enough
um i'll let you guys ask any other questions you have
that was great that was good stuff um yeah i mean i'm i'm definitely super curious about the perp
i'm also curious when i heard you say like, oh, starting to put in limit orders. So it sounds like you guys have still you've done 4 billion in volume, and it's still kind of pretty early. So that's kind of epic. To do 4 billion without limit orders is super interesting. Are you guys going to be incorporating maybe any sort of like, AI component, right? You see a lot of these, you know, AI,
crypto AI agents that are all over the timeline
in these different ecosystems.
But I've actually never, funny enough,
I don't know if Nat's actually mentioned an AI agent.
So I don't know if there's one
that's actually integrated yet or not.
So I would love to kind of hear about that
if that's a thing.
They need Junie.
They need Junie, Dave.
Let's go, Kate. Let's go, bro. Like, come on, say less.
Yeah, just to address your question, I don't know of any agents right now,
but I know of a lot of people working on that.
We do have some things with Ichi Finance that they've already incorporated
that helps with some of our v2 concentrated liquidity
shifts and along those and strategies along those lines i do believe that they do use some ai
but we have some new things coming out through another one of the great teams mainly focused on
lending and borrowing and it's called bonzo finance so you can lend and borrow hedera assets
over there and they're going to be launching something called vaults which any developer is going to be able to spin up whatever they want
and I know there's several developers that are looking at AI strategies to help out with that
but you're absolutely right you know we're just getting to the point where we have limit orders
but because SaucerSwap is the most liquid platform decksX on Hedera. It's acting as a primitive right now,
where we're kind of like the base layer right above Hedera
where that liquidity layer is provided.
And in addition to the things that I was talking about
before, there's other teams that are building on top of Hedera
and then leveraging our smart contracts
and acting as that user interface.
So we have a great DEX aggregator and ediswap
and then we just had a team called orbit um that is another interface that uses saucer swap just
below they already have limit order so you can already go over on their platform and use their
uh platform to to get that more normal centralized exchange feel um but they're also looking at
things like ai solutions ai strategies, and things along those
lines. So that's kind of what we want. We want additional developers to build off of
the foundation that we've already built.
Very nice. Now, that's your hand.
Yeah. Brandon, I know you guys have a token incentive program.
Would you mind just diving into that for us real quick?
Yeah, happy to.
So there's two types of pools on SaucerSwap.
One is version one, where if you provide two tokens, you have the entire span of possible price ratios between those two. And then version two,
it's concentrated liquidity. So you can decide which ratios you want to trade between. So
different ways you could use that. We'll say you have just HBAR and you want to trade out of HBAR
right now. It's what, 23.4 cents. And you want to trade out of HBAR, right now it's what, 23.4 cents, and you want to trade out of
it between 24 and 25 cents. If you concentrate your liquidity and set it up so you're going to
sell between 24 and 25 cents, as it moves through that range, you're getting rewards, as you're
mentioning, during that range. And then by the time you get up to 25 cents, you have all USDC,
then by the time you get up to $0.25, you have all USDC, for example, if you're pairing up
HBAR and USDC. So that's how you use V2. Now, there's two ways you can get in those two
strategies, V1 and V2. There's two different ways you can get liquidity rewards for providing
liquidity in those two strategies. As far as yield farming in, well, you're always getting,
just to go back a minute, whenever you trade two tokens on SaucerSwap, you're paying a 0.3% fee.
0.25 of that, so five-sixths, is going to the liquidity providers. So the vast majority is going to the liquidity providers.
That 1.05% goes to the platform, and we use that for other incentives, and we use that to maintain the platform.
Once you've provided that liquidity, you can then go and farm those.
Now, with layer one, you're actually staking your liquidity tokens because you get an NFT that
represents that liquidity pool that you've provided to. And right now you're getting,
I think 270, or right now across all of SaucerSwap, 270 sauce tokens per minute. And then I think 0.78
HBAR per minute is getting, depending on how much you own of those liquidity pools,
is going to be going to you. So that's always getting distributed out. For version two,
there's something called Larry Rewards. And I'm trying to think, I think we have,
let me double check here. All right. So right now an epoch is two weeks.
And during each one of those epochs, we admit about 450,000 sauce into those V2 pool liquidity providers, 62,500 HBAR.
And then we also have that PAC token for the native wallet on Hedera, and about a half a million of those are distributed per year.
native wallet on Hedera, and about a half a million of those are distributed per year.
Now, those are the ways as far as providing liquidity and then farming, you can get rewarded.
But you also have single-sided staking, where there's different ways we generate revenue for
the actual sauce token, and it's liquid staking. So you put your sauce in, you get X sauce back. And that X sauce is always increasing in value compared to sauce.
And that's denominated in sauce.
So that's the way other incentives can be distributed for essentially the profit that
is being generated by the SaucerSwap platform.
So those are the different ways you can get benefits for providing liquidity and trading
on the platform.
I think I've probably covered just about everything. Do you have any other questions
about that, Nat? No, you covered it very, very well. Thank you so much, Brandon. Back to you,
Cade. Yeah, excellent stuff. I'm actually kind of curious, Nat, to throw this back over to you.
Hazara hasn't historically been seen nearly as much as the defy hub like an ethereum or maybe now solana i'm curious on your take on you know what sort of
sets hedera's defy apart that's unique things that you're excited about uh that maybe we haven't
covered yet or things you hope to see in the hedera ecosystem yes yeah okay go ahead brendan
no no go ahead nat did you If you had something else to add.
I was just going to second what you said prior, right? With all the projects coming in, new eyes on Hedera, a lot of people are building out some beautiful thing.
And what puts Hedera on the forefront is that it's not blockchain per se, it's Hashgraph, which makes scalability so much better and it's so much secure. So when we're talking about these DeFi projects, one thing that I would like to see is more projects building on Hedera, building DeFi projects specifically on Hedera, and letting the world know, letting everyone know how secure it is to build on Hedera versus like a Solana or an Ethereum and how cheap it is too.
Yeah, I have to second that.
I mean, there's a lot of exciting aspects. I think a lot of people get confused around Hedera and what their mission was.
Because you see the Hedera Governing Council, which is teams like IBM and Nomura, Google, all of these Fortune 500 companies that run the governance of Hedera, people think that it's an enterprise chain.
And that's not really what they were going for. What they were going for was a platform that can
meet the needs of mission-critical enterprise applications. And if they can meet the needs of
that highest bar, they can meet the needs of everyone, from whether you're doing something, as I mentioned, in SportsFi,
in D-Pin, all the way down to or all the way to, you know, meme coins and NFTs.
So you can meet the needs of essentially everyone.
And we've already gone through some of the things that makes Hedera unique and really well positioned to be able to handle everything.
And it doesn't matter if it's a retail application or an enterprise application.
So I second exactly what Nat says you know more people should build
on Hedera because of those unique attributes but it's up to us to make
sure that the word gets out and they understand why it's a good idea to build
on Hedera and we have to build up our liquidity and that's one of the things
that I'm really excited about is continuing to expand the liquidity because Because even if you are the absolute best tech, one of the other variables
there is getting in and out of these platforms without losing too much money, right? And having
significant liquidity is important for that. But what I'm kind of getting excited about now is there's a new platform called Swarm. And they've created a new way of taking
securities. They're going to be bringing securities like Apple, you know, all of your
stocks out there. So Apple and Tesla and Microsoft, MicroStrategy, whatever it may be.
And they allow those to become DeFi ready. They tokenize those, and if you're going to create one of those tokens yourself,
you have to go through their KYC process.
But once you have it, it's a bearer asset, and you can do anything with it,
including setting up liquidity pools on something like Saucerswap.
So you can have an Apple liquidity pool with USDC or against HBAR or whatever it might be.
And then that can trade hands because, again, it's a bearer asset.
If it's in your wallet, you own it.
Not your keys, not your coins.
They are yours.
Now, of course, if you're trading for it on a DeFi platform like SaucerSwap, you can get a hold of something without going through that KYC process. But they've been working with this team, Swarm, has been working with regulators
and have determined that that's just fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But then if you want to off-board and get the actual stock certificate,
of course, everything's hold by the DCCC.
But if you want to off-board and go through Swarm and get a hold of the either fiat
or something along those lines through them, you're going to have to go through that KYC process. Or you can go through the normal
process of offboarding, just like you would on SaucerSwap any other time. You take your HBAR,
you put it on a centralized exchange like Binance or Coinbase, and then you could exchange that for
US dollars and then put it directly into your bank account. Now we have support at crypto.com and Binance for the Hedera version of USDC.
So you could trade to the USDC and then, of course, offboard that way.
Excited about that on a few different fronts.
I thought when we're talking about disrupting traditional finance that these NFT marketplaces,
these DEXs would act as a proof of concept for the traditional exchanges.
And you were talking about the CBOE and the NASDAQ, you know, trying to get to the point
where they can trade digital assets. And of course, then they're going to tokenize all the
stocks and everything else on their platforms and eventually get to the point where the world
is tokenized, the traditional world is tokenized.
But where I thought we were just going to be a proof of concept, now this makes platforms, and I'm not saying that this is going to happen overnight, but it makes platforms like Saucer
Swap and other DEX a direct competitor for things like equities, for bonds, for commodities,
direct competitor for things like equities, for bonds, for commodities with NASDAQ, New York Stock
Exchange, and everyone else. And what excites me about that is we just walk through how token
holders and liquidity providers on SaucerSwap get the vast majority of the rewards for the
trading that's taking place, the service that's being provided. Compared to NASDAQ or New York
Stock Exchange, they have their
own shareholders and interests and overhead and everything else. It really does decentralize
finance. So that's what I'm looking forward to most right now. We have a few other things that
I could dive into along those lines, but it's the promise of crypto from the beginning, truly disrupting finance in a way
that we could have only dreamed about even just a year ago, because there wasn't that regulatory
clarity that teams like Swarm now have, and they can move forward in earnest.
Before we hand it over to Kate real quick, I just wanted to jump in on something you said,
that it's up to us to spread the word.
And I agree. That's why when when I started Hedera Spotlight, that was one of our focus.
Right. Because Hedera is so full of amazing projects and amazing opportunities.
They when I first came into Hedera, they were very focused on the not on the retail side.
Right. On the institutions. So now that now that we're seeing them focus on retail,
what better opportunity do we have to showcase all the amazing projects
that are currently being built on Hedera, right?
Like on Friday, we had Gilmore Estate,
real estate tokenization on Hedera.
That blew my mind, right?
And then we have more Game Fine product.
On this Friday, we have Ludic.
They're based out of Dubai, and they're building a project on Hedera.
So many great things are currently happening.
And 100%, it's up to us to spread the word and let everyone know what's going on.
Very cool stuff.
Dave, I wanted to pass the mic to you to see if you have any thoughts on this.
If not, I was going to say, yeah, definitely want to get your thoughts on the tokenized aspect of the stock world what that leads to he's got prediction
markets i mean it feels like it's going to be a free-for-all in terms of what you want to trade
and what you want to spit in there will be a tool product there will be a ramp for you to participate
on 100 bro that's not even a question right like i think there's going to be so much i mean especially
on on the prediction market side.
But I think, Cade, like even before, like I kind of get to there, like I'm just looking
at like the saucer swap timeline, like your rollout roadmap, Brandon.
And I didn't even like you guys aren't yet integrated with Layer Zero.
So I'd be really interested to see because I feel like that's going to open up the ecosystem
to a lot more money.
I'm sure there's probably been tons of money that's been sitting on the sidelines from other chains that are wanting to get involved here.
So just kind of curious.
I see it says Q4, but any additional info in terms of what bridges are being built, where we're going to be able to connect to?
Like if we want to deposit SaucerSwap and I got money on an EVM chain, Ethereum, Optimism, Arbitrum, Base, and so on, are we going to be able to cook that way?
Because that's lucrative money, and that can tell you.
We talk about being liquidity prize all the time.
We got the guy that's got more money than God on our ATC spaces and Landy, and all he does is provide liquidity.
So when you start doing this stuff, this is the early opportunity.
So maybe you can give us some early alpha into, yeah, man, what chains are going to
be opening up and when, if you have a date.
I know it's estimates.
I don't want to tie you to it, but give me the skinny on the Layer Zero integration.
Yeah.
If you don't tell him, he's going to get it out of you anyway so you're going to have to just you know very good point we're working hard
on layer zero right now actually layer zero is already being leveraged by at a swap i mentioned
i'm sorry at a bridge at a swap is um the aggregator i mentioned before but their sister
kind of organizations uh but they're already leveraging Layer Zero, and you can bring things over right now.
We also have a native bridge that you can use right now called Hashport.
You'll notice on SaucerSwap we already have ETH, we already have Bitcoin,
we have all that kind of stuff.
They've been there since pretty much the beginning.
And we've been bridging assets through Hashport from several different platforms,
Polygon and Ethereum and so forth, several of the ones you mentioned from the beginning. So you can bridge today using Hashport and more opportunities
around Layer Zero are coming very shortly. We've already got some tools, but we have a lot more
tooling that needs to come. I see that we have Cantor codes down there, and I would love for
him to come up because his his insights are
always fantastic he's the the president of hashgraph online um and really into the ai thing
as well so if we can get cantor codes up here and have him put his i'd love it he's up on stage right
now yeah cantor let's just pass you the mic how are you well well actually brandon you stole
you stole it right out of the mouth what i was was going to say is that ETA Bridge, which was actually just acquired by HGRAF,
the leading mayor node provider on Hidera for data and analytics,
and they already have a live mayor zero integration,
which provides an incredible amount of interrupts between most networks and chains.
And since they've acquired EDA Bridge,
they have actually deployed additional liquidity
and they plan to deploy more liquidity
and they have a bit of a roadmap out there.
So I think that is a really good starting point.
Hashport is of course a really good starting point
and the accessibility of HBAR on exchanges.
But yeah, ultimately you want to see more and more availability of hbar between n plus one networks all across these different
ecosystems and i think where it gets really interesting because i will larp and larp around
the agentic side is when agents have access until you have an agent with a wallet on a different network like
ethereum for example and he wants to go and bridge access assets programmatically to farm
yield on different networks well that gets exciting because um these agents typically
won't have access to your binance account or your coinbase account right um but they will have access
to a private key and using that private, they can form transactions on various networks and move assets around.
And fortunately, agents probably won't have bag buys, at least not programmed by default through their models.
And they will take the best route that yields the best opportunity for the users at the end of day and i know brandon we talked about this before
how because hbar has these fixed fees behind it because the cost of transactions are so low it's
it's a really good opportunity around utilizing fadera as a native currency for how agents
interrupt and move these assets between networks because the user doesn't care ultimately
and they shouldn't care.
What they should care about is how can they optimize
the yield of their assets in the most safe and secure way.
Yeah, one of the things that Michael,
the guy behind the Cantor codes there,
talk about a lot is because Hedera is the most efficient network right now,
transferring HBAR is fixed at 1 one-hundredth of a cent. We think that it should be the native
cryptocurrency for AI in general, and that eventually a lot of agenting systems, you know,
whether it's agent to agent, whether it's user to agent, a lot of those payments could potentially be handled by HBAR itself. Now, of course, there's some volatility
around that because the cryptocurrency might go up and down, but it's just more efficient
from a monetary standpoint, from a fee standpoint on HEDERA compared to tokens, even though it's
incredibly cheap to transfer tokens on HEDERA as well. It's a tenth of a cent to transfer tokens.
It's a hundredth of a cent for HBAR, so it makes it that much cheaper. It's a tenth of a cent to transfer tokens. It's a hundredth
of a cent for HBAR, so it makes it that much cheaper. So it is one of the things that Michael
and I are both passionate about, trying to make HBAR the native currency for Hedera,
the native currency for AI as well.
Maybe for anybody that's listening, if you're an ai dev builder cantor i got you
um hashgraph okay literally gives out is out here i've been giving out millions of dollars
okay so i don't know what y'all are doing if you're an ai dev and you're building some sort
of a cool agent uh crypto or anything related right like blockchain, hit up Cantor and then do something with SaucerSwap
because it seems to me that these guys got a little bit of money, money.
Cantor, I know you got that money, bro, that you're giving away.
What are y'all giving away, man?
$2 million.
That's for the hackathon, right, Cantor?
Yeah, we have a hackathon that's running right now.
It's called an African hackathon because there's hacking stations in Africa, and we're trying to solve some problems over there.
That said, it's open to everybody.
It's still open for another three weeks.
It has a million-dollar prize pool with an additional million dollars of follow-on investment that's open for the next three weeks.
If you're a dev, you should absolutely be getting in on that.
Just announced that there was a VC that added that additional million dollars worth of follow-on investment.
So we're excited about it for sure.
Million dollars?
Zach, can I vibe code something?
You absolutely can, and you should.
It's a huge opportunity.
I think it's probably one of the biggest hackathons ever.
At least in Web3 might be wider than Web3.
I know we've had some million dollar budget hackathons,
but the fact that you're not just getting a million,
but then you also have that follow on funding from investors.
It's huge from that namesake where if you do win this thing,
a lot of people will be paying attention.
If you already have VCs that are involved and excited.
And from the VibeCode perspective,
I think everyone should be looking at AI coding in general.
I'll preface this with a disclaimer in a second,
but coding software is no longer a commodity at all.
It is cheaper than ever to write software using AI and AI agents where you have
most coding tools like Claude and GPT-5 are scoring 80% on the software engineer work
patches, which means they are much better than a junior level engineer and sometimes
better than senior level engineers already and more efficient.
That means that you can absolutely build
a test net ready application and ship it.
I think it would be exciting
because we do need more folks in the field,
especially in web three, where it's hard to find developers.
There are plenty of investors and folks who are interested,
but they never knew where to start.
Now you can take out hundreds of thousands of dollars
in startup costs and building these things through AI.
We'd love to see what you can come up with.
Now, the disclaimer aspect absolutely
is that if you are building any application
that touches money, legal or financial applications,
do not, do not, do not push it to production without getting it audited by professionals
and security experts, because you will probably negatively impact somebody.
There have been many such cases of this sort of bi-coded applications go out in production,
even ones that don't touch money labels.
For example, one went out in Brazil the other day as a dating application
and you're able to query a public
API and get everyone's private information
with their IDs
and whatnot.
My gosh, Cantor, where are you
right now?
He's playing Frogger.
He plays Frogger every time he comes on Spaces
in New York City, bro. I hope he's alright.ger he plays Frogger every time he comes on Spaces in New York City bro
I hope he's alright
yeah hopefully
I think he's there
I wanted to bring you to the conversation
see if you wanted to add anything into the
debate here on Hedera DeFi
I kind of got around the circle
a little bit earlier on things we're looking forward to
and also you know
hopefully looking to see more of in the Dey world and you know specifically on on hedera what kind of things
stuck out so that's kind of what we were talking about for the first half of the conversation but
um definitely get you in um been on stage for a few minutes didn't want to just like throw you
on the spot right when you hopped in but uh yeah tropic i will throw the mic over to you man it's
great to have you how are you great yeah definitely um It's been good to just kind of catch up and hear what's going on.
And, you know, as someone who is still learning about that, I did need those couple minutes.
It kind of caught me off guard starting on the half hour instead of the hour. Anyways, as far as, you know, with the various things, you know, the AI aspect is brought up earlier with wanting to be the native area for AI.
And I was just wondering, as far as what kind of front end development are you seeing for people?
Because a lot of times you think of, at least when I speak to people about Hedera, they think of institutions, they think of various companies, banks and so forth.
But as far as a front end facing application with the AI that people are really getting excited about, like just the average person that might not even necessarily be in the world of Hedera, but just something that I would say would uh just you get you know like a
chat gpt moment for hedera you know what i mean uh is there anything like that right now where
you're just finding new people that never really interacted with the ecosystem before gravitating
to one you have the right person up here right now hopefully we can get kantor to answer that
one i have a few responses but but i think he's probably going to give you the best one. Yeah, his hand is up too. Answer please.
Yeah, I mean, I speak to developers day in and day out with the open source work that we're doing
at Hushmack Online. And one of the, we are building a lot of open source applications on the front end,
as well as standards. And we'll be doing a press release on an upcoming one,
HCS14 for agent identity.
Last week, one went out for HCS19,
which is being pioneered by Privacy Check.
It's a standard for agent privacy and consent.
So this is a legitimate company.
They wrote the standard themselves and they're using it already in production with clients.
As far as the ChatGPT retail moment, They wrote the standard themselves and they're using it already in production of clients.
As far as the chat GPT retail moment,
we have an application on root, it's called HOL Desktop.
And it's a downloadable desktop client
that everyone will be able to actually run
from their computer.
Think of, if you remember AOL Desktop
and you remember putting on your AOL internet
back in the day, HOL desktop provides the
same kind of energy. And the idea with HOL desktop is you run it from your computer, you talk to your
AI, you're able to do things on Hedera autonomously. So say I have 100 HBAR and I want to deploy it in
liquidity pools. What's the ones with the best APIY? Oh, it's a sauce X sauce pool.
Okay, cool.
Can you deploy it for me?
Okay, boom.
Transaction pops up and you hit that transaction.
Okay, that was great.
Now look at my wallet and transaction history.
What would you change about my portfolio?
Okay.
Maybe you should look at potentially lending and borrowing on Bonzo.
Okay, here's a transaction that pops up and now you go and do that.
So that's like the core ethos of HL desktop
is where you have these retail facing applications
and combined with MCP servers,
as well as other lane chain tooling,
you're able to do a lot of cool stuff.
Let's say even like fun stuff like NFC's on DeFi related.
Maybe you can plug into a image generation
MCP server that generates images for you.
And you tell the agent,
I'd like to generate a live action movie thriller,
the car chase in the city.
And then I'd like to describe it as a hash note.
So one natural language prompt
and does like seven different things.
And that's, I think that's kind of like an aha moment because
in the end user experience, you don't need to know about any of these underlying protocols.
You're just talking to an agent, natural language through a desktop client.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, definitely.
I would say that's one of the things that's great when the end user doesn't know because for the
most part anything that we get excited about within you know web3 using all this technology
and so forth most of our friends they don't even care they just want to know like what does it do
so i do find that very interesting and you did speak my language when you said aol because um
yeah i'm a certain age that was my first time on the internet was through AOL. So one thing I will say or question before I pass it, though, is, all right, so the shifting
narrative from it being like this institutional thing and it goes more towards the end user and
has benefits to people. How are you measuring that
as far as the success of that narrative
being communicated to people?
Is there a specific metric that we can watch?
Not just looking at the chart and looking at the price,
but is there something,
let's say we're deciding if we want to build
in this ecosystem or whatever it might be,
that we should watch to see
that this is something
that's really starting to take off.
Is there a specific metric that you guys really track?
Well, I think it's going to be the standard metrics, you know, network utilization, TPS,
you know, utilization of the smart contract service, the HTS service, also things, of
course, like TVL, you know, on SaucerSwap and so forth.
You know, those are the metrics, the standard metrics that we look at to see what kind of
traction we're getting. But also the other thing is, you know, how passionate the Hedera community
itself is and the community of builders as well. And that's one of the things that I've been seeing
a lot of lately is just seeing the passion of both of those cohorts, the community itself,
the people that are passionate about using the applications that are being built on Hedera,
and then also the builders themselves and the excitement coming out of that team.
Michael, is there anything else you want to add to that?
all good all good he just popped on so we're lucky to have him
yeah i appreciate you coming through dave i think you had also had a hand
yeah i i wanted to just um just kind of maybe pivot for a second because i'm looking at the
opportunity like for the token itself and and really where this kind of lies like I was listening to what NatNet said at the open about
you know DeFi like I mean you know the chain wasn't built specifically initially like it was
geared more towards the institutions and now if NatNet's telling me that like now we're looking
at more of like retail and and and looking to cater you know, the individual users, I pop open DeFi
Lama and I put in the Hedera ecosystem.
And I see like, I mean, when I say nascent, like you guys have 80 million in TVL, which
for the Hedera ecosystem is monstrous, but compared to the overall ecosystem, right?
When I look at that combined, like with layer zero integrations, this thing can pop, man,
zero integrations this thing can pop man like from an investment standpoint right so i think
like from an investment standpoint, right?
like really understanding how stuff works within the saucer swap ecosystem and where people can
benefit um nat maybe we should really start covering this a lot a lot more because like
80 million in tbl a layer zero integration coming tons of lp rewards in hbar in pack you know what i'm saying like in a few of
these other native tokens and in saucer right in sauce like i think there's massive opportunity
here like it's look on 80 million dollars in tbl they're generating almost 20 grand fees on a daily
basis in 24 hours that's nothing to sneeze at the end of the day. Granted, compared to the giants, it's minuscule. But when you're in a growing ecosystem, this for crypto like noobs, this stuff could be genuinely like really easy to understand.
Right.
Especially if there's an AI agent like Cantor was talking about.
That would make it really, really easy.
Yeah, I think, you know, I'm in touch with a lot of agent teams.
And Cantor, I hear you.
I genuinely want to do it.
Like, I want to integrate something.
I might have a team that could do something.
So don't count me out just yet.
I might have found the team.
But Brendan, like, just curious, man.
Like, this opportunity is massive.
Like, do you kind of, like, what are you guys doing maybe, like, on, like, the education front?
I see you're hiring a head of ecosystem and tell us about like the genuine opportunity here.
Like everything I just say, like makes sense because in my head, like this thing can cook, man.
Yeah, I mean, the Hedera ecosystem as a whole is sitting in kind of a sweet spot.
I mean, being a layer one, certainly enough liquidity as far as the base layer, as far as HBAR being a top 20 token.
I don't think that, you know, we have two HBAR ETFs that are in route that have a 90 percent chance of getting approved this year or getting at least one of them approved this year.
And I think that Hedera and HBAR are going to resonate with the people that are going to get access to providing capital through the ETFs more so than most of the other networks.
You know, they're going to see the governing council.
They're going to dig into, you know, some of the things that make Hedera unique.
unique. And then your point on DeFi itself, yes, very small, nascent, but a lot of really cool,
And then your point on DeFi itself.
passionate teams that are building some really innovative tokens that we can leverage. We do
have good rewards on the platform compared to what you see elsewhere. So the yield opportunities
are pretty good on SaucerSwap. Certainly not
investment advice, but you can take a look at the SaucerSwap platform and judge for yourselves.
But yeah, I think we're sitting in a really good spot, plenty of attention from the community.
As far as education, I have a show that I dig into all kinds of stuff that's happening
in the Hedera ecosystem every week. And this is actually one of the things
I posted on the Jumbotron.
As soon as Michael came up
and started talking about Hashgraph online,
I did an interview with him
talking about that stuff in particular.
And you can just go on my channel
and pretty much search anything you want,
and you're probably gonna find something
that has been built on Hedera
or is being built on Hedera.
Hedera has creatededera is creating moats in several different verticals,
AI being one of them.
So they're embedding Hedera technology
for provenance of information that goes into these AI systems.
And it's through a company called Equity Lab.
They're embedding Hedera Tech directly into both NVIDIA and Intel chips.
So we have things like that.
We have Prove AI along the same lines.
Another place is in refi, regenerative finance, carbon credits, things like that.
And with what's being built by Swarm, essentially Hedera, I think, could corner the market because they're working with a lot of the different players in that space.
And Hedera has kind of become the anointed one in that space.
The moat is pretty broad.
And all of those assets, again, could be traded on DeFi and made DeFi ready with a platform like what Swarm has created.
So the amount of liquidity that could build up on our ecosystem could change on a dime.
All of that trading again,
goes back to the people that are providing that liquidity.
Exciting times for sure, Dave.
Awesome, man. Thank you. Good stuff.
Yeah, great stuff there.
Nat, didn't know if you had a hand.
If you do, would love to pass the mic over to you.
If not, I do have a different question that I was going to toss at your Tropic.
Cool.
Very nice.
So I'm curious, Tropic, I'll just question you first, and then would love to hear from
the rest of the people on the panel on what lessons the Hedera DeFi can learn from boom
and bust cycles in the past.
You've seen Ethereum DeFi, boom, run, it's back down, up and down.
It's all over.
So I'm kind of curious from your perspective, what you see.
You're not like Hedera native.
And so you have more of a broader aspect or broad perspective on this.
So definitely want to get your thoughts on this.
I think when it comes to DeFi, I'm never the first one into anything and i know that's where all the
yields are and everything but i like to kind of let my friends take some of the darts and the
fact that okay hedera is not the first one out the gate with all this going retail i think is
actually a good thing in the sense that you can learn from all the mistakes that were made by the
other ecosystems and chains and so forth so you, I forget who said it earlier that there was 80 million in
TVL or whatever it was, and that is relatively small. I don't necessarily think that is a terrible
thing. I think in the sense that from what I've learned anyways is, of course, what happened with
Ethereum and Solana with various coins and ecosystems and
communities when it came up so fast and it came down just as fast I think learning from that is
what I would just say going into this and I do think it is a positive thing that again stepping
on some toes but the fact that they have worked with banks and done all sorts of things, I think
it does make it a little bit different. It's not that necessarily quick up, quick down ecosystem.
So again, approaching it as I'm learning this stuff and interacting with various people that
are on the stage that gave me a whole bunch of things to look up. I think how I would approach
this is honestly just learning from mistakes of the past, because I just think those that were
first out of the gate with the other ecosystems, it left a bad taste.
And even some Bitcoin circles, if you say the word Bitcoin, if you say the word DeFi, like they get upset.
But at the same time, too, just understanding that the whole ethos of this thing is, you know, being decentralized, going to the people and so forth, peer to peer, all of those things, I don't think it's a negative thing. But when it comes to how I'm going to approach this, how I'm going to explore this, I think that's what I would
say is just looking to see where there is liquidity and where people are gravitating to. And, you know,
that's what I would say. Any thoughts on that? You know, kick the mic to Nat Nat to hear what
you're thinking. I think the fact that Havera currently has a 88 the TVL is at 80 million as a
whole I think that's a beautiful thing right it shows a structure right when
when a pod when a project or a company or whoever is taking their time to build
something it's because it's standing on solid foundation right so hey they took
many many years to focus on their on their foundation and now that the
foundation is basically set now we're seeing a lot of the growth now we're seeing the retail come in and now we're seeing these projects building in.
So I think, do you want to get in now or do you want to get when a TVL is at a billion dollars,
right? Every investor is different, but for me, I think being in earlier, being in at the
beginning speaks volumes. And I just wanted to give a shout out to Postmaster Softball and Chris
behind Gilmore Estate. he's also building on
hedera he's doing uh the real estate organization as i mentioned and his product is amazing same as
everyone right i keep saying this but hedera is the place to build at the moment right look at
all these amazing projects that are building something nice and we're still at the beginning
phases of it love those last two takes yeah please i see you i need to go ahead i was gonna throw Love it.
Love those last two takes.
Yeah, please.
I see you unmuted.
Go ahead.
I was going to throw some mic to you.
Brandon.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I'm looking at the TVL on DeFi Llama, and yeah, we have spikes, but it's up into the right.
Things are moving in the right direction.
I can take it down the line of some of the tokens that are going to be coming out.
There's one from CLSQ. Now, they are listed on the NASDAQ. I'm sorry. And they already have, I think, 19 Pico satellites in orbit. And they are going to be working on transactional
Internet of Things. They're going to be launching on transactional internet of things. They're
going to be launching a token on Hedera that acts as the medium of exchange between objects.
One of the things that the CEO says is, of course, we want to onboard the next billion people,
but we also want to onboard the next trillion objects. They already have hundreds of millions,
if not billions of objects that are already set up for this out there.
For an example, I think there's 21 million smart meters.
We're talking about power meters in the UK that was just contracted by the UK government.
And this is so things – people that have solar panels, things like that, can easily trade back and forth between power companies, between other users and things like that.
And they have all kinds of objects from smart homes, smart cities, autonomous vehicles across the board.
And again, they're building that token on Hedera.
Hasn't even launched yet.
So, you know, we're talking about things that we can get excited about looking forward.
The things that have already happened, that's behind us.
But some of the things that Hedera has, that we have to look forward to,
you know, can't be overstated.
Hey Cade, can you do me a favor?
Because you know me, I'm impatient as hell.
I try to make things happen on the spot.
Ninja Dev, can you request up so Cade can let you up?
Ninja Dev and Cantor, this is the the most crack one of the most crack devs
that i have worked with in the past they've built tater trader um and it is one of the most insane
like crypto ai agents that i've used i mean this dude was integrating we have everything from
prediction markets on the timeline in the twitter dms this is essentially what needs to be integrated
with saucer swap and on hedera and i'm like yo ninja would you consider doing something like
this there's some money up for grabs here and he was like always so i want to make just want to
make the introduction um cantor to you and brandon to you as well um at saucer and kate of course like
to you as well because i think this is i mean ninja is just
somebody you want one of the best builders in my opinion in the space that i've come across and i've
been out here for a very very long while um but yeah ninja ninja you up yep i'm here can you hear
me okay yeah man we hear you okay ninja i wanted to obviously like i just said take a second to
introduce you to cantor brandon and the rest of the Wolf team,
Nat and everybody here. Cantor,
tell me what Ninja has
to do. Where does he find the docs?
Because I'm telling you, this guy will literally build
whatever I need by lunchtime. And I'm not even joking.
So, Cantor, where do we
find the docs
for how he gets involved with any of this
stuff, please?
Yeah, I mean, right now there's a lot of
uh hackathons that are going on in hedera a lot of money that's on the line i mean the one that's
current uh that's being run and operated at this moment is the hedera africa hackathon but as
brandon mentions it's entirely virtual and anyone can participate uh There's $1 million in prizes from the hackathon itself,
plus $1 million in follow on funding from VC investment,
which means if you're building a product
like a legitimate startup
and you think it's gonna go somewhere,
then it's going to get the attention of VCs
and also just because of the amount of press
and reach from the event itself just by
participating you're probably going to get awareness for your work no matter what so I
highly recommend you do participate there's just now where it's a two-month hackathon and there's
about three weeks left which I believe is still more than enough time to go and ship and deliver a product,
especially if you're a proficient engineer and you're using AI tooling to kind of supplement some of your work.
You can get a lot done in very, very little time and submit something interesting.
I think the one thing that I want to do, that I want to preface is the kind of folks that we are looking for,
folks who do want to run a legitimate company in DAP
in the ecosystem, from my perspective at least.
Additionally, if you can't make this hackathon,
Hedera is hosting the origin series of hackathons,
which I believe is another $350,000 or more
in prizes than the Hedera account,
whoever's on the Hedera account can comment there. It is a trilogy and the first part of that trilogy has already run. So there's two
more parts. There's going to be additional opportunities there for you to go and develop
your application, ship it live. If you're looking for documentation, Hedera has really, really great
docs at docs.hedera.com.
If you're looking to learn more about the Hackathon,
you can go to hashgraphonline.com forward slash hackathon,
which will take you to a bunch of info. And also, we have a vibrant developer community
on Hedera's Discord and the Hashgraph Online Discord.
So you can go, if you just find the Hashgraph Online account on X
and click some of the links there in the bio
that can get you along the right path.
And also of course the Hidair account here.
I would say that the things that you mentioned, Dave,
are really good opportunities and things that we need
within the AI ecosystem.
There's a lot being built out,
like the Hidera Aging Kit,
an HOL desktop, that could be plugins for whatever
you're building and creating.
I think also just because of Hedera's unique,
unique properties, there's also use cases that can not just
support DeFi, but also support broader Web 2.0
and enterprise adoption that are worth looking at.
One of my, I would say pet dreams
is seeing models being hosted on Hedera.
You can start with small embedding models
that are 10 megabytes big.
And yes, you can actually store them fully on chain,
which is kind of interesting from the fact
because if we could put a model on chain
and then we can verify its outputs,
how important and vital will that be for things like DeFi in general for the verifiability aspect?
Because right now, most AI agents are sending or interface calls through these huge providers like OpenAI and Cloud.
And, you know, there's risks, right?
If you're sending things over the wire, like signatures, potentially private keys. I'd love to see local models or decentralized models
become the norms that we can ensure safety and security with these kinds of requests.
And I'll just add in real quick on the African hackathon. One of the things Ninja and any other devs that are down there,
a lot of times these hackathons focus on they want innovation, a new idea. That's not necessarily
what we're looking for here. We're looking for viable businesses that can come onto the Hedera
network and provide a platform that people are going to use. Interfaces that are easy to use
and everything else. So he already mentioned that you had built things in other places on other chains, things
like that.
If you can bring that over to the Hedera network and it's an EVM chain, so fairly easy to
build on and shift over if you're familiar with other networks, do it, bring it over.
it over. And again, you can bring things over fairly simply. Again, Cantor mentioned it's
And again, you can bring things over fairly simply.
hedera-hackathon.hashgraph.swiss, or you can just look up Hedera Hackathon. It's going to pop right
up. There is a quick course that they want you to take to participate, but it's only 10, 12 hours.
You'll have it all nailed down and it teaches
you a lot about how to use hedera anyway so um again three weeks is plenty of time to get
something out there and we'd love to have you yeah ninja and kate i know but just give me
literally like like three minutes because i really think like once like you guys hear like ninja ninja
can you just give them your background on tater quick intel so they
understand kind of like you know the kind of like you're you're the web 2 dev that came into web 3
and and i like yeah i'll i'll let you say it like i'm no more of the uh the hype but please give it
give an intro of yourself man yeah i'll give a quick a quick spew and i know you guys are probably
running short on time so i don't want to take too much of it um but um yeah just i've been in tech my whole life you know over 15 years uh
in you know big tech what it was called in the web2 world um got into crypto in 2017 started
building in 2021 to 2022 building out first a security, which some of you may or may not have heard of,
but it is on a ton of like platforms called Quick Intel,
and it's a token security scanner.
So typically used amongst like, you know, low cap tokens,
and primarily was meant to showcase and surface things easily for users
within tokens, because there's a huge amount of scams that go on in this space.
So, you know, and there's different types of scams, obviously,
but this one focuses more from a core focus of the token itself
because contracts have malicious code or just, you know,
random things that these malicious devs will input where, you know,
maybe you're transferring a token,
but it's actually transferring them to their own wallet versus where you want it to go, right? So we surface all that
through that security tool. And then our Tator is actually a new product that I built out earlier
this year, which is an AI agent built on top of Eliza OS. If you guys have heard of that from,
you know, on the timelines, that's something that I've heavily contributed to from a core product as well.
But then really just took it and spun it into my own what it is today, Tater Trader, which is really just meant to make it easy for anyone and everyone to get into crypto via a simple chat or via a simple UI button across 20 plus chains and any device.
So we're really focused on being an omni platform for everyday users, both new to crypto and existing to crypto.
Because even if you're already in crypto, when you see different chains, different things,
it's always still a battle to, you know,
figure out all the technical stuff that comes with it. And we abstract that away with Tater,
just make it super easy to participate in DeFi, yield, prediction markets, you know, just trading,
sending, whatever it might be. So I can't pause there, leave it there. And obviously there's a
lot more that I can go into, but yeah,'s just a high level overview of myself and what i've been building love this conversation teamwork makes
the dream work for sure yo nat i can't tell you not because you know i work with a lot of people
out here i genuinely do but we're super selective with who it is that like we work with and who we
partner with at the end of the day like i like
i want you guys to experience it like for yourselves right and like so you guys can see
and this is not the tater show like i want like i i know that that ninja can build something on
hedera and and brandon i love what you said right like you guys are like it's the primitives right
now and that is what he is it like fit. When I tell you there's 20 different chains integrated across different EVMs, World Chain, Katana.
I mean, you name it.
And it's so simple.
There's prompt builders, right?
There's security built in.
There's already a mobile app, right?
Like forget just like tweeting on the timeline.
This is not that.
This is literally like a thousand times like functionality, safety, like baked in prediction markets now as well.
So like with this product being integrated to Hedera, I genuinely believe that like this can be like the kickoff for something really, really great.
And I think it would be a genuine match made in heaven.
And yeah, I genuinely just can't say enough about Ninja.
And I'm looking, Brandon, I'm looking forward to obviously getting to know you a little bit more.
And yeah, Cantor, let's not pass up on this. So if it's cool with you, I would love to kind of
start a group chat with us and see what we can cook up, make sure we get all the proper docs
and do all the things correct, man. And thank you, Cade, for giving me the minutes. Yeah.
Go ahead, Brandon.
Do you want to say one more thing?
No, I'm good.
I'm looking forward to,
sounds like whatever Ninja has built is exciting.
We'd like you to ship it right over
and join that hackathon
and see if we can get some additional funding
for you to continue to build on Hedera
because we do need as many good devs as possible.
So we appreciate it.
Let's go.
Very nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Solve those problems.
That'll work.
Solid.
I was going to say,
Brandon,
if you wanted to close out with any final thoughts,
but I was going to say also before you do,
big shout out to everyone who came through for talking to Hedera for a
little bit,
talking to DeFi with us.
Appreciate everyone.
And be sure to give them a follow. If you're not already, just take a second and be sure you're following them and reach out to everyone who came through for talking to there for a little bit, talking to defy with us, appreciate everyone. And be sure to give them follow.
If you're not already,
just take a second,
be sure you're following them and reach out to the space.
If you enjoy the conversation,
but yeah,
Brandon,
I'll tell some Mike back to you.
If there's anything you want to leave us with in terms of saucer,
anything you guys have coming up that you want to make sure you leave us
with before we,
before we wrap up here.
Yeah.
I think that the main thing that I want to pass on is just get out there and
try to use some of these hedera applications whether it's you know the stuff that's coming
out on the gaming side with legends of the past with earthlings uh get out there use some of that
kind of stuff some of the the sports fi stuff with karate combat and some of the other up only
gaming teams that we have going on um and of course get out there and use saucer swap get a
hash pack wallet um take a look at some of the opportunities we have.
Of course, that's not financial advice, but get involved.
Like Dave was saying, this is really the ground floor.
We're just getting started.
We're getting lending and barring.
I see Brady down there.
So we have lending and barring through Bonzo, trading through SaucerSwap.
We'd love to have you guys try it out.
You'll see the difference right away.
You'll see the speed, everything else
So yeah, give it a shot
Try the applications we have built
And you won't be disappointed
Very nice, there you go
Appreciate it
And guys, if you guys want to find out more
A couple things pinned up at the top
Saucer has one pinned
And also the link that goes over to Hedera's site
If you guys want to check out more
What's going on in Hedera
Highly recommend you guys check out the pinned post At the very top ofera's site. If you guys want to check out more what's going on Hedera,
highly recommend you guys check out the pin post at the very top of the space.
That'll take you right to their website where you can find out more.
Be sure to give them a follow here as well so you don't miss any of the updates.
Guys, we're going to be back on Spaces in just over an hour at 4 p.m. Eastern,
talking all things Bitcoin.
So we'll be back on in Spaces pretty soon here.
And, of course, we've got the streams and spaces going on every single day here.
So be sure to follow along if you enjoy this kind of content.
We'll catch you guys all in the next one.
Have an amazing day if we don't see you.
Host
WOLF Bitcoin
from
Magic Eden
