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HBAR NETWORK GLOBAL TAKEOVER I ALL HANDS ON DECK SHOWCASES BY @HASHPACKAPP I FEATURING @ENTERTHEORIGIN, @TRADEINORBIT, @CASKCAPITAL
Recorded: March 31, 2025 Duration: 1:58:28Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion highlights the launch of Hashphere, a private DLT solution on Hedera, and Origin's decentralized investment platform. Innovations in tokenizing luxury goods and the growth of Hedera's DeFi ecosystem are noted. Trends in real-world asset tokenization and enterprise interest in blockchain for cost reduction and transparency are explored. The decline of Solana's PumpFun and the technical advancement of HIP 99.1 for AI consensus are also discussed.
Full Transcription
What is up, everybody? Solomon here. Super excited to be with Genfinity, interviewing a multitude of builders across Web3.
We have quite the show for you guys today. We're going to be diving deep into the weeds of new frontiers on the Hedera network,
from launchpads to next-gen trading and tokenized whiskey casks and beyond.
But we're going to kind of kick this off. I know that we've been doing all hands type spaces for the past couple of months with just tons of contributors. I think this is going to be a little different.
We're going to be doing like maybe 20 or 30 minute segments here and a huge shout out to
Hashpack for helping us to put all these together on a consistent basis and super excited to have
May Chan, CEO of Hashpack with us today. May, how are you doing? Hello, I'm doing well, actually, today. You
caught me at the beginning of the week, so I haven't had an entire week of work to weigh
me down. Feeling refreshed. Putting out tons of fires consistently. No, I know. I think
we can take this however we want to. Maybe I'll start because it was just announced today, Hashphere.
I'm not sure how much you know about what's going on with Hashphere, but I think probably
the community is really interested in and maybe learning a little bit about it.
And I'll share my screen here in a second.
But can you tell us a little bit about what Hashphere is?
And I'll pop my screen up.
Yeah.
Hashphere is a response to businesses that need some kind of DLT solution, but a public solution isn't where it doesn't meet their privacy or security needs.
So there's a lot of companies and even corporations that you can't have your information on a public network.
You have to have it behind a firewall. You have to have it behind a firewall.
You have to have it, you know, only accessible to specific people.
And that's what Hash Spheres is designed to do.
So it's not about like building Hashgraph, but building it in a private way.
It's about addressing a real business need.
a real business need. And the idea is that you have the hashgraph as a technology that can,
in a distributed way, do all of these things that we do on the public network. And then when it
needs to interface with public information, those hash spheres, then talk to the public hashgraph.
And it's not really, when I say it that way, it sounds like I'm describing a layer two.
It's not really a layer two because they're not designed to be like another public network on top
of the public network, right? It's not supposed to do that. It's supposed to have a very specific
purpose for those companies that need to, you know, put private healthcare information or something on their servers,
and then interface in a public way, maybe with ZKPs, zero knowledge proofs, or other things like that.
So yeah, very interesting. I don't know where exactly it's going to go. But I think that as we see, like, they're already talking to clients who are looking into building on it,
like they're already talking to clients who are looking into building on it as we see more use
cases come out we can have an idea of uh how exactly they're going to run differently and
how they're going to interface with the public network do you think um i think what's interesting
to me and i don't i don't know but i'm asking is like um you know i think over if everything truly
goes digital and and starts interacting with things on chain in the future, and I believe that's the case.
I believe that like society in general basically just kind of interacts with, you know, blockchain and DLT at some point.
I'm curious from like the governance standpoint.
So like if, you know, does this open up like governance structure at like the enterprise level?
Because, you know, enterprises have their own kind of corporate governance and all the
other stuff that comes along with it.
Do you think that in time, like we'll start seeing structures that some of these entities
have in place, just like literally kind of being represented in their own kind of network
environment, just kind of on chain instead, though?
Or what do you think?
It depends how we can push for the technology
in a way that is useful to those entities,
those corporations, governments, et cetera.
I think that we're still in very much a discovery period
for crypto and web3
overall.
And so it's really up to people like everybody building on this chain and
people like Hedera to innovate and then bring those innovations in a way that
makes business sense so that people adopt it.
Right.
Like it,
it's,
it's kind of just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks,
I guess crypto in general is,
and the thing that sticks really make a huge impact.
I think that these are one of the things that we're throwing at the
proverbial wall. But it's, I don't know,
it's hard to say whether or not it's going to happen,
but something is going
something is going to like take hold at some point and this is our play you know hedera's play
yeah i i one thing that stuck out to me and this is like obviously like even within um
crypto onboarding in general uh you know i always wonder like why aren't the you know why
why do we not see 90 to 95 percent of like the people that aren't here here and obviously there's
not like customer support lines in general for like when you when you like i mean some entities
maybe have like reach out help if you have a question on discord you know etc etc but this
stuck out to me with this announcement is that they have fully managed services. So essentially like comprehensive support, which I think I would imagine. And I'm, you know, I'm not in the weeds with like these enterprise and institutions outside of like interviewing them. But as they start integrating and adopting the tech, like they're going to do it with pain points first, but they're going to have like questions on, on all sorts of things. And I think this was pretty unique to me is that like, Hey, there is, I don't know what this looks like, but there is,
it appears somebody to reach out to if you have a problem or if you have a question, like,
do you think that just your thoughts in general on that, like having that kind of
area of outreach to be available? Yeah. Well, there's a lot that goes into running a network. A lot of infrastructure, a lot of technical knowledge.
Just being able to have it supported 24-7 is something that maybe the biggest corporations can do,
but not a lot of companies can do, even if they could use the technology.
Everybody's using AWS, right?
using aws right and you pay aws to run your service for you um so like i think that that's
And you pay AWS to run your service for you.
just an extension of what already exists in the business world and it's just very practical to
kind of approach it this way it's also important like that they put the source code for hedera into the hyrule organization with the linux foundation decentralized
trust foundation organization that they spun up i think at the end of last year and announced and
that also adds a lot to sort of confidence that the project is uh managed well and that because it's public,
then these companies that rely on it can rely on Hashgraph, right?
Because it's all open sourced.
It's not hidden behind some company that could do something behind the scenes, right?
Like it's all out there.
So I think that Hira also is a very important piece of this hash fear puzzle um and this
enterprise angle that hedera has been going after forever what do you think i mean i know
so we published uh an article this morning for hash fear on hash fear and um obviously the low
hanging fruit for for everybody you know the comments are well how does this tie in with like h bar and like
i don't know i kind of had this like mental shift maybe like a few years ago and this is just me
personally and maybe i'm wrong but i i kind of and again these are just purely my opinions i think
like the the actual infrastructure like the networks like are kind of what the actual value proposition is like here for for crypto in general
and then like over time you know the underlying native assets are going to do whatever they're
going to do if the actual network and the infrastructure is like actually adopted so like
i don't know but like what are your thoughts like in broad strokes as far as like how the public
network interacts in a way that makes sense over
time. I don't want to get too down the rabbit hole of like HBAR. Yeah, I guess my thought on
on that on, you know, wondering about the performance of HBAR and that is like,
and it's not a perfect analogy. But if you talk about stocks, and we're taking Amazon, for example, the Amazon stock, what is this company doing that is improving my stocks that I bought when it first started?
that companies are buying Amazon web service, like web services,
services from them. Like, you know, this isn't pumping my stock kind of,
that's, that's kind of what it sounds like to me, right? Like these,
like when,
when we're looking at a web two company and they are building things that are
going to attract customers, attract clients,
bring in clients that have never like touched
managed services before or something like that,
or make it so easy that any company can use them.
That is a great thing.
You're bolstering your company.
You're increasing your customer base.
You're increasing your ability to make revenue, right?
And that positively affects the stock price,
if that's what you're concerned about.
And Web3 isn't a perfect analogy for that.
But I think that seeing companies building things
and making partnerships with other companies
that have like bigger implications,
far reaching implications.
I think that that's what you want to see.
You want to see companies that are trying to build something bigger and
better so that they can then, you know, bring in more clients,
bring in more money, bring in more users, all of that kind of stuff.
more money, bring in more users, all of that kind of stuff, right? And yeah, it's not, they're not
Right. And yeah, it's not,
like burning their stock so that everybody gets artificially inflated kind of thing. I don't know,
it's a very interesting thing where people are looking very short term at how this, and very
small, like how this asset is performing and what are you doing specifically to make
that asset perform better? And bigger picture, you are trying to do that, but you're doing it
in a way that is sustainable, but also has the largest upside if you're successful at it, right?
Short-term moves that move the price don't pan out over the long term.
You have to have something solid behind it.
And I think that that's Hedera in general has always looked at its approach in that way.
And for sure, we are in crypto.
We have a very vibrant DeFi community.
So you can't discount it.
And in fact, the DeFi sector for
Hedera, I think, is extremely important. And we've seen time and time again just how much impact
success in the DeFi ecosystem has over everything Hedera. So that's just another...
And you know what? To Hedera's credit, they have now put a ton of resources into improving the Hedera
DeFi ecosystem, because it's one of those important verticals, alongside of what, like,
everything that they're doing with spheres and with Hiro, and all the other initiatives that
we're hearing from them. So I think it's all like, coming together. And like, I don't like to think
about price or talk about it. And a lot of times I can't,
but I think that we're doing the things that we need to in order to,
in order to like, yeah,
make things better and keep things going in the longterm.
Yeah. I think it's interesting. Like I've, you know, more recently,
I guess had like the, have had the opportunity to interview um like even the
image up here right now bcgx so this is the tech and build arm of boston consulting group and urs
was so he actually dropped uh the name hash sphere like this was like a month and a half ago um but
i think a lot of it like and you you kind of paint the picture too or like i think a lot of what we
see in crypto from like the retail sense of frustration and i'm i'm kind of in the same page with you like
i don't really look at uh coin market cap or coin i just learned not to at this point um but i think
like if you know some of the short-term stuff like you see what happens with it like even on
like solana look at pump fun it's like 97 down like at some point the carousel stops and like what i will say like from all these interviews and these are totally different
entities like a lot of the people at you know bcgx or uh pwc like some like these entities are saying
very similar things that like the most impactful real world adoption that we're going to get
you know uh in in crypto and blockchain is going to be like very seemingly boring, non-sexy real world use cases like, you know, track and
trace or supply chain or digital passports or, you know, the provenance aspects of having a
network. When you get into that stuff, like in what industries that can impact. Yeah, you do get
into like areas of like proprietary aspects where you
would need some privacy you get into areas of like gdpr and like data compliance um so i think it's
really interesting like i guess the question that i have is like where over time you know as rwa
tokenization and stuff takes off like are they going to almost have to interact with the public
network because that's where all the liquidity is at uh and i'm curious like what what form that
takes over time but yeah i mean all these people are saying very similar things as far as um i'm
gonna ramble man i'm just rambling now it's it's i mean like yeah this is the the new frontier it's
it's very interesting to look at the trends that are happening.
I mean, these are billion-dollar industries that everybody is trying to get into.
Hedera is not the only one trying to build supply chain logistics kind of things
or working with those companies, right?
companies, right? People are trying out all of these things. And I've definitely talked to a lot
People are trying out all of these things.
of companies that have tried multiple blockchains and tried Hedera. And I will say, like, we're not
there yet. But we're working real hard at it. And like, there are a lot of there are a lot of
issues that just like prop crop up. And you're just like, well, how do we address this?
Because right now the network doesn't support it.
Hash fear, I think, is just a direct response to many, many requests from clients that are like, well, we like the technology.
We can really, really use it, but we can't do it on a public network.
It just like legal, legally, security wise, all of that stuff, just like straight up, flat out.
No. And if you want to get past that, no, you have to invent something.
You have to go in and build something that actually tackles those things directly instead of like going on Twitter and saying we're going to build the future of of logistics.
And and here's here's why our network is so great. But then
the actual clients are saying something else, right? Like you have to build something that
they can actually use. And I think that everybody is in Web3 is just scrambling,
trying to build things that clients can use. And the funny thing is clients don't know what they
want either. So we're all just trying to like, innovate and figure out what it is that people
need. I mean, the worst case scenario is you get, you just basically get another private network,
where that isn't connected with anything, you know, you have your, I don't know,
your Apple ID that only well, actually, that's a federated ID. So it's a little bit different.
You have your Spotify account.
I don't think that they've gone into the Mass ID thing yet.
So you have your Spotify account.
You log into Spotify, and you can only do things on Spotify,
but Spotify has all the music on it.
That would be the worst thing if you had a decentralized hashgraph network
that was just privatized behind a firewall,
and you just interact with it with the
company's website and there was just zero outside you know um but i think that i guess the the
advantage here of web3 is that you can bridge over very easily to the public hashgraph network if you
have a hash sphere and so maybe maybe it starts out with the very basic kind of completely segregated,
isolated hash sphere network that never touches the public network, but you need those because
you know that there are use cases out there that would use a bridge to bridge between public and
private networks, right? But we have to support all of that, we have to build up and
respond to what clients are looking for. And then as you build adoption, more and more interest
comes in, and then more and more opportunities open up, right? So I think that that's what it is.
Like, these, these are big picture moves, these are long term moves, that will sustain Hashgraph
for 100 years,
which is the meme that Matt said like four years ago
or something like that, right?
Like that's how you build it.
You don't look for pumping your price
for the next bull market
as like your like final destination, right?
Like you're looking at long-term growth, right?
And I think that that's...
One thing I've heard is from a lot of these interviews
is that a lot of these enterprises don't care about blockchain
in the sense of let's just use blockchain for the sake of using blockchain.
Let's just use DLT for the sake of...
Like, they don't care.
What they care about is they have pain points
and can this technology make things cheaper?
Can it add provenance and transparency? Can it solve some of the issues that we have? what they care about is like they have pain points and can this technology make things cheaper uh can
it add provenance and transparency can it you know solve some of the issues that we have that's why
i think it's so interesting when you look at like bcgx and some of these kind of like middle where
i don't want to say middleware but like the solutions advisors that kind of bridge the
gap between web 3 and web 2. in that vein what was in what's interesting to me is like admit you
probably can't talk about this or maybe you can um Um, like I go back to like some of this, like stable coin trials and things
like that. Like I watched a very long video that I think was like, I want to say standard bank and
one other entity, like a year and a half ago and like 45 minutes in they're doing a stable coin
trials and they're using like the hash pack interface. i'm just like yeah so is that like do i feel like even with hash sphere with like a private network it's not
like they're going to just go spin up and invent their own wallet solutions and things like that
i feel like they're going to probably use what's there is that correct yeah now i'm i'm wondering
Now I'm wondering where my NDA is.
i'm wondering where my nda is
We don't have to go down the rabbit hole.
Well, the thing is, right, everything that we have solved or addressed on the public network, you kind of have to do it on a private network, too.
Maybe your users are only inside your company, are only your users for your platform.
Maybe your employees are the only ones that are actually logging into your network,
your private hashgraph network, but you still have to have all the things that we've built here,
all the standards, all of the infrastructure. And yeah, I think wallets would be necessary to, I think that it's, you know, so
yeah, it's a very exciting time. And I think that, you know, when you talk about stable coins
and tokenized real world asset, that kind of thing, those are problems, not just from a tech
side, but also from a user experience side, right? And that is
what my team is really interested in. So, you know, a lot of the things I mean, I've been teasing
that we've been so busy at Hashpack and stuff. And a lot of my interviews, I say I've been working
on things that are like beyond what we're currently doing, because our team is so solid
at building Hashpack retail, right? And the stuff that I'm looking at is beyond just the
DeFi space, because there's so much going on on Hedera and so much opportunity that, you know,
we're super early for. And, you know, as soon as, I don't know, one big company comes and launches
on Hedera and starts driving in eyes, there's going to be a lot more competition. So I am,
I'm trying to get ahead of that.
But that's been my sort of focus here.
So yeah, all this stuff with Hashfair, with Hyro, all of that kind of stuff, I've been
really participating in and trying to keep up with it or get ahead of it so that we can
provide the best user experience, the best, you know,
onboarding for clients and users and everything like that. Right.
Like this is a very exciting time, I think.
So what do you, I mean,
I know that you guys are doing a bunch of stuff and you allude to it just how
busy everybody is, but I mean, what are you,
what are you kind of like most excited about?
And I know that I'll phrase that in a way where I know that like from like the infrastructure standpoint,
there's a lot of work that goes on
and things that just have to get done.
But what are the things that you want to get done
that you're excited to kind of get out there?
Like after the have to get done stuff gets done.
I think everybody on the team has like this thing
that they are really interested in, I guess like, okay, so my stock
standard one that I would say I'm excited about is like decentralized identity. And I think there's
so many teams that are building it. And I'm not quite sure that the answers that people have come
up with are quite there yet. Although there's a lot of smart people building a lot of different things.
I think that there is a play here that you can build out an ID system that takes care of all
of the issues with losing your ID or getting it stolen or things like that, which is a tall order
because people have been trying to fix that. But I think that that's a really, really exciting one.
And that's the kind of basis for everything else really, really exciting one. And that, I mean, like, that's the
kind of basis for everything else that you want to do. Like, if you can't prove your identity
in a decentralized way, then how do you manage decentralized assets on different platforms and
sell real world asset stocks that require your KYC, you know, like, you have to be a credit
investor to invest in stocks right
as we go more as we mature more and more in the defy space well not d5 but in the in the crypto
d5 space decentralized finance decentralized traditional fine i think there's not actually
a good word for it yet because it's still coming right as you're buying stocks that are on the
hash graph you're going to need to kyc you're
going to need to get some kind of certification and how does that certification where does that
live right and i think that that's a problem that's very interesting to solve so if i had um
free reign to like go out and and build something i would try to address that kind of thing
you guys are also doing a ton of um like even addition to these which you guys support um these kind of all-hand spaces or like the showcases like we're doing today and i should
mention like super excited to have cast capital on today trading orbit and uh origin um and i know
you guys uh have a partnership with um with origin as well, and they're going to be on the tail end.
So feel free to touch on that.
But you guys are also doing like,
you know,
additional kind of community outreach spaces and,
and some more of like the audio spaces now too.
Can you,
I mean,
talk a little bit about that,
what you guys are doing on a consistent basis.
Sure.
I mean,
I think that this show is the biggest thing that we contribute to the community, honestly, like Ryan, you're great.
And getting all these community projects to come in and have a place to showcase what they're doing, I think is fantastic and super important because the people in this community,
we need to know what's going on in order to get excited about it, in order to support these projects that are coming in and to know who to
support, right? Because they,
they should come in and be able to say their piece so that you can say,
okay, well, this is interesting to me, or this isn't interesting to me.
So I think that like this space is, is super important.
I also think like,
so one of the things that we did is we started a Thursday space called Pack the Mic.
And that is run by Phil, who is our new marketing guy on our team.
And we're just talking about the day to day of Hashpack, basically.
And it's kind of a way for us as a team to reach out to the community and have them hear what we're building on a day-to-day basis because we used to be a very
tuned in with the community and talking to people in like our discord chat or things like that
but we're just getting more and more busy these days and also our user base is bigger and bigger
and bigger so like having a place to just talk about it and reconnect i think is is where we're
going with this um that was phil's brainchild so kudos to him and we brought
him on to do things like this to kind of reach out to the community to help new community members
help new projects that are coming in better than what we've been able to do because um i've gotten
so busy and pluto has gotten so busy and we used to do a ton of the community management stuff
mark as well as he worked a lot with you uh mark is now busy with other things that we used to do a ton of the community management stuff. Mark as well, he worked a lot
with you. Mark is now busy with other things that he needs to do. So we have someone dedicated to it
now. Yeah. And I think that a team like Origin is great because they are trying to build the user
base, trying to build that community and bring in a very interesting
platform. So definitely stick around to listen to them. And Orbit as well is a project that came
right out of our community. They're Hedera bred and born and grown, and they hang out with us on
the Discord as well. So they are a great team as well. So definitely listen to what they're
building because they're really cool.
And actually one of their founders is coming up to town, I think, at the end of this week.
So we're going to go get some pho and that's going to be fun too.
Yeah.
My wife made homemade ramen last night for my youngest birthday.
So that was definitely really good.
One of the other things we've talked about, and I see Jeremy down here from Cast Capital,
and we'll bring Jeremy up in just a second, is kind of getting back into the weeds with some of the cross-chain spaces.
I know that we did a lot of those for the first couple of years, and over the past handful
of months, it's been kind of difficult to manage it bandwidth-wise.
to manage it bandwidth wise.
But I definitely think that we're going to be doing that.
But I definitely think that we're going to be doing that.
I've reached out to, I think you guys got a follow
from some of the Algorand ecosystem, which was cool.
And I think Paro Wallet,
which is kind of Algorand's premier wallet
and you guys and maybe some others,
we do maybe like a user experience driven space
and some other stuff.
And I do keep wanting
to like do a bigger like when we did like hedero wean and and the hash and times thing that would
be really cool to do at some point this year too we should maybe think about something yeah yeah
when that we can definitely arrange something the timing is also important for those big events too
you kind of have to get the community just like everybody excited and have a
really good lineup but yeah that would be fun well lead us out here with any and you can hang out
with us too but i know that you're super busy but uh we're gonna have cast capital coming on we're
gonna have uh trade in orbit coming on in origin but uh lead us out here for what you're excited
about for uh for the rest of your week here within uh hedera land yeah uh well we're
just gonna grind it's gonna be a really exciting year so definitely keep in touch um join us on
our spaces watch this showcase when whenever ryan puts it on it's gonna be fun time so stay
stay tuned because there's i think there's going to be a lot of news this year. Awesome.
Well, thank you, May.
I really appreciate your time and looking forward to all the updates coming out of Hashpack
and keep up the good work.
Thank you so much.
All right.
I'm going to let Jeremy from Cast Capital come up here.
And it's been a little while.
We had the Cast Capital team on a handful of months ago, but it's nice to have you back.
And this is kind of, you you know the floor is yours so i mean whatever whichever direction you want to go
if you want to share a screen uh i guess to start with if you could give an intro yourself and tell
us a little bit about cast capital that'd be awesome yeah sure so i've been in the crypto
industry since 2017 um been trading crypto investing crypto well uh starting doing product consultancy blockchain
consultancy also since 2018 um started focusing on rwa tokenization for rwa since 2020 and worked on
tokenizing several uh luxures for several projects and i kind of find my way in RWA space and good contact me in the Web3 space introduced me with my two co-founders who are based in the UK. And they were really eager to innovate the industry, make it more accessible, educate
people more on a global level on why and how to invest in Scotch Whiskey Kask.
So the question came, is our Scotch Whiskey Kask a good use case for blockchain tokenization?
I quickly came to the conclusion that it definitely is because uh scotch whiskey cask by law has to
be stored in bonded warehouse in scotland um for those who don't know scotch whiskey casks are
exempt from tax until the point that they get bottled so it's a tax-free product uh meaning
that the bonded warehouses where they are stored are controlled and regulated, not controlled, but regulated
by the UK tax authority.
Because once a cask exits a warehouse, someone needs to pay tax.
And as we all know, tax authority doesn't let tax slip.
So it's an ideal use case because the physical assets are secured and are monitored. And the only thing is it's not liquid
and it's not hard to get into that market.
So what we thought of was building a marketplace,
which our great partners at former Ethereum,
now called Infinite,
they had a marketplace SaaS model,
which basically had an entire web to ux experience
on hedera um and and that's where we saw a perfect use case because now we have a marketplace
successful on a global level and you can either if you're crypto native or not you can get in and
purchase scotch whiskey cask yeah no go ahead no i mean i think you know it can go in a couple
different directions here i think um i forget who i was talking to but uh you know real world
tokenization of real world assets we always think of like uh the low-hanging fruit you know what i
mean uh stocks and bonds and and treasuries and all the other stuff with that but you know there's tons of markets like as as far as like luxury goods
are concerned things like that where you know they have a kind of a really high-end clientele
but as far as like the liquidity of of these assets like buyers and sellers you almost have
to like know a guy who knows a guy
to be able to like wanna purchase one of these things.
So like whenever you think about tokenization of RWAs,
these are like perfect use case examples,
at least in my opinion, because it's an industry that exists.
It's solving a pain point because it's opening up
and as far as ownership is concerned
in the liquidity aspects.
And yeah, I think it's really innovative. And you guys obviously already have experience,
your co-founders do in the industry,
which is like a win-win-win, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So prior to us launching this marketplace,
how you had to get by was you had to know a whiskey broker,
whiskey gas broker.
The only thing is that prices are very
non-transparent in that industry so often this whiskey investment company they could sell you
a cast they charge a margin as you're the first seller but if you wanted to exit that cast you
had to sell it through the broker again then the broker would charge another margin on the second
sale and on the third so and go on, basically heavily inflating the value of those casks.
But at the end of the day, once a cask has matured, it needs to be bottled and sold in
a liquor store or whatever store.
So with heavily overpriced casks, an independent bottler will never buy such a cask because
it won't sell in the store.
And that's how we came also with market with
with the marketplace with cash capital we want to bring data on chain um first off because it becomes
more accessible people can trade peer-to-peer they don't necessarily need to call us or email us hey
i want to sell my cast they can of course but they can also sell to one another. And also it's a good starting point
to actually track on-chain prices of WhiskeyCast
for how much they get sold.
So that's like very valuable information,
which wasn't always very open in the traditional market.
How do you guys go about like,
because I think one of the,
you know, it's interesting whenever i like look at like crypto
and let's say projects like just to say the word projects in crypto i feel like as like mass adoption
occurs like not every project is going to have to be a social media influencer like i think it's so
funny right now if you look at like if you look at like crypto twitter it's like is this project
you know who is this project and do they have x amount of followers and i think that that's like
the totally wrong way of looking at thing but things because like real world businesses if we
truly have do have mass adoption of crypto and dlc and blockchain real world businesses are not going
to really care about like building up you know a twitter following they just want their processes
to work and they want to be able to you know make money and and have things you know go quick or
cheap or whatever you what are your thoughts on that just in general like you know how do you kind
of get um the recognition right now for what you guys are doing like is it on twitter or is it is
it through different verticals like physical events things like that uh it's it's it's mainly through um i mean we do get through twitter through the uh of course the
hedera community is very very supportive on on twitter on on even in our telegram channel so
um they're very supportive and everything you interact with the hbar community they all are
engaging and helpful so that's something we value a lot and we appreciate a lot.
Other than that, it's also a lot of physical events where we go to and we talk face-to-face with people.
Because, I mean, we're a startup.
We're bootstrapped.
We have a real good use case.
We have WhiskeyC cast that appreciates steadily uh you know it can range
potentially anywhere between 12 10 up to 12 13 per year it's not a crazy crypto volatile uh you know
gains that you can get but it's very stable um so the thing is is as a startup as a bootstrap
company it's not like that we're pouring pouring either a significant amount of marketing budget with a marketing agency.
We don't have a cryptocurrency for the platform.
We just have the cast and we tokenize.
So in that form, we are kind of a hybrid project more.
We're not the traditional full web tree that has a currency,
which they can use to, you know,
airdrop to-
Raise capital.
Raise capital, you know,
do OTC deals with key opinion leaders
who can then push marketing for you.
So we don't have that advantage
and we don't need that advantage.
We'd much rather have a very solid business
where we bring value to the buyers uh we don't want to
bring volatility in the market we want to bring stable assets that grow um so we are dedicated
and confident that in due time we will people will see us more and more as we bring more cask and of
course also upgrade the marketplace i feel like that's what we need
to see more like for me personally that it is what we need to see more of in this space is like
let's leverage the technology in an industry that already exists and just make the and make the
process better um we don't need to over complicate it um you can ask like a lot of people on the
street you know whoever's walking around i can guarantee that 99 of the people you asked have no clue how the back end works on the internet um exactly keep it simple
and keep it straightforward what are some of the price i'm just curious because i'm not as familiar
with the like the industry but like what are some of the like prices like of like full casks
um and obviously you you guys get down into like the fractional
um ownership aspects here but like what are people looking at if they want to participate like traditionally to dive a little bit deeper in for me and like how blockchain kind of really
streamlines it and it opens it up for everybody yeah so um a cask it can if it very it can vary
a lot so if you have a new may cask a new may cask is defined by the first three
years that spirit is poured into a wooden cast in the first three years you call it a new may cask
from three years you can officially call it a whiskey so in a third the first three years are
often of course like the lowest entry levels for a cask. If you're looking at premium brand whiskey cask,
you will quickly already be around 2,000 pounds for a cask,
like anywhere around 2,000 up to, you know,
3,500 or maybe even 4,000 for the more aged cask.
Also, if you have a one-year cask,
it's a lot cheaper than a three-year-old cask.
So the price goes up quite fast.
But I mean, we were at a warehouse at one of our supplier who had a mechanic from 1991
laying on the ground, which is worth about 500,000 pounds.
So it can go up drastically.
We wouldn't be very, we wouldn't quickly fractionize such a cash because
that's really more for a true collector um has a lot of budget a lot of capital um but yeah with
i mean an age cast let's say about 10 years 12 year olds will all from a period from a premium
this area will probably be around up to 10 12k yeah what do you think is gonna end up because i think i feel
like um i had this discussion like a week a week ago i had para wallet on from algorand and we were
talking about um uh you know what kind of mass adoption looks like and i feel like we've seen
use cases in crypto i brought up the example of micropayments because
micropayments have been around since like 20, probably before 2015. But I always, I always
think of like XRP Ledger and Codeus with, I think it was Codeus with micropayments. And, you know,
the platform was used, but it really didn't like take off, take off. And now we're kind of seeing
a resurgence, like from governments and enterprises talking about micropayments i feel like we we saw you
know luxury goods tokenizations like even like art like the fractional ownership of art and things
like that start to maybe kick off in 2018 2019 2020 um and i don't think that we've had that
kind of like oh shit like this is like real yet. Like as far as like what it actually means.
Where do you think like industries like, you know, whiskey and all these other industries go in the future as far as like how many people do you think are going to end up participating in like markets like this, like down the line here?
I think it's going to be quite a lot, but it is going to be in in phases so most people at the moment especially
in crypto uh are very focused on the massive bull cycle gains and they aren't necessarily um
overall they aren't taking a very rational approach to investing and trading
because a 12 annual annual return isn't something that intrigues them at the
moment. So they'd rather go for the 1050x. But over time, as the market opens up due
to blockchain, and I mean, we're maybe one of the first, but I'm very confident there
are going to be a lot of other competitors entering the field, which I see as a huge upside and, you know, a win-win.
Because eventually we need to open up the world and the market on a global level.
And we'll probably won't be able to handle it on our own.
So we'd much rather have competitors in the field.
It's going to open up a lot.
People will always keep on drinking whiskey.
So whiskey isn't gonna go
yeah i mean that's the end game i mean as long as whiskey is dry is drunk you have value in your cast and one of my co-founders jared he says it very very well he said it's it's made to be drunk
whiskey it's not made for just an asset or an investment.
If you can't... It's not meant to huddle.
No, it's not meant to huddle.
No, no, no.
It will literally evaporate if you huddle it for too long.
That's some good branding.
You could do like commercial.
You know what I mean?
It's not for Halloween.
No, so it's... you need to have good quality whiskey
and you need to know what you're buying.
And I mean, I'm not a whiskey expert myself.
My background is really in blockchain,
product development within blockchain.
But my colleagues, they know so much about whiskey,
about the type of wood it's poured into.
Is it a, you know, an ex-sherry cas poured into is it a you know an x sherry cask or
is it a bourbon cast these are all things that influence the end taste of of the whiskey that
gets poured into a bottle so you need to really generate value from the liquor that's in that's
maturing in like whatever how many years and you need to come from a distillery that's reputable and that sells good.
This is pretty crazy stat.
You guys posted it in March here.
What is this?
5,000 pounds invested 10 years.
Is that pounds or euros?
Pounds, pounds. Pounds invested 10 years ago.
Gold would be 9,500 pounds.
S&P, 10,200.
Whiskey cast, 16,500.
It reminds me of Legos almost almost i saw something similar to like gold
versus legos like a handful of years ago and uh i tried buying a star wars ultimate collector edition
of uh i think it was a millennium falcon and like nice i think it's selling for like three thousand
like nice i think it's selling for like three thousand like three thousand dollars it's insane
it's insane i started building my lego collection uh it's two years now so every year i buy like a
lego lego thing that i want to just build and you know i'll see what's working 10 years 15 years but
um it's it's crazy to realize that lego appreciates and and even even can outperform gold i think you know what's interesting
to me i i do feel like at some point we get to this you know we think about like tokenization of
of real world assets think about whiskey think about watches think about art whatever it may be
i truly truly think like eventually we get to kind of this world where like
everything's going to kind of be operating on chain and like i can swap between different assets like rwas i could swap between a whiskey cask and a rolex or i can swap it's like fractional ownership
in a rolex or in um whatever it may be and that's going to be like a really and i don't think it
happens just on one network like i think that what's going to end up happening is interoperability is going to get nailed out between these networks and i think that you're
going to be able to like pathfind um towards like the highest levels of liquidity between
whatever assets you want between networks and it's going to be a pretty crazy world that we
kind of live in i don't know what you said your backgrounds in blockchain and product development
what are your thoughts just like kind of big picture on what's going to happen as far as
like across these networks and how these assets interoperate well i think you're hitting the right
point over here that interoperability will eventually be solved and become faster and
cheaper and will be eventually we need communication between all the different change and ecosystem
i also do believe that at a certain point maybe in the coming phase we will get like
more niche blockchains and i mean we can't all be the d5 blockchain it can be like
we're not gonna have five d5 blockchains ethereum is still holding 95 of the
liquidity in blockchain um it's something um we're analyzing with my day job i work at a
as a portfolio manager at a fund we analyze daily um how is ethereum developing how you know what
are they doing they're aiming to become a modular blockchain. They're becoming fast and cheaper.
So they probably aren't going to lose much of their market share in DeFi. But there are also other infrastructures getting launched now who are more focused on RWA, so focused on tokenizing,
like Stories launched recently, tokenizing on IP tokenization. I think we're going to evolve in a more
different niche chains.
And I think that's going to be very valuable in the future.
And yes, of course, we will need to then even more
be able to communicate in between the different chains
and need to transfer stuff easily and swap whiskey
cask maybe for IP rights on on story or whatever
um that's what i see whether where the market will go i remember having a discussion with um
one of my childhood friends as a financial advisor and i think this might have been in um
i don't know maybe 2019 2020 time frame when we were talking about crypto and blockchain. And he was just like,
he said, he's like, I would never invest, I would never tell any of my clients to get into crypto
and blockchain. And I feel like, obviously, that narrative has shifted now. You know, kind of your
background and portfolio management, like, at a firm, like, how much has kind of your background and and portfolio management like at a firm like how
much has kind of the landscape shifted because it seems like it's totally like night and day at this
point but it still also seems like it's really really early um as far as like actual kind of
mass adoption at like the financial product level um for what these assets represent. It's definitely when I entered the market in 2017 and I started doing my first transaction
and I started talking with people in my close network about blockchain and cryptocurrency.
People didn't really want to talk about it.
It's a shady market.
What are you doing with it?
What's the use case? Especially what's the use case especially what's the use case was the added value of blockchain and now when you have
those stocks with people they know the standard coins they know what bitcoin is they know that
bitcoins get it adopted that central banks are adopting bitcoin so it's it's a huge different
and also attracts a whole different type of audience to
why i mean i don't even i even don't prefer to call it crypto anymore uh i prefer to call it digital asset space that's also how we call it you know at the fund so uh the fund it we're launching
a new fund in it's gonna launch around june it's from mn fund it's called. And over there, the people that come and want to invest in the fund, they are also often like traditional people who want to have their foot, the first step into Web3 and digital assets.
I'm very confident that if we would ask like all the investors that are joining that fund, probably like at least 50% wouldn't even consider investing in whiskey or in that, sorry, in digital assets five years ago.
uh annually right yes maybe you know crypto dgens don't look at that as like oh my god that's a lot
but high net worth individuals uh like the traditional incumbents like you know pretty much
i'm sure that they look at that a little bit differently of being able to like have eight
nine ten percent returns whatever it might be uh compared to just like parking money
in a savings account or whatever it is um so that i think is pretty interesting too and it's to me
it seems like the writing's kind of on the wall like when you see the black rocks of the world and
franklin templeton and all these like just gigantic fund managers like even even something
as small as like and i don't know like this was like a couple weeks ago but i do 100 think that like blockchain the digital asset space like framed this stuff
the nasdaq basically saying you know we're going 24 7 with trading like that just didn't randomly
happen yeah no like why did that happen you know competition 100 yeah i mean web3 crypto
digital assets whatever you want to call it it's 24 7 seven. And I mean, it's a massive upside.
And there's also the downside that sometimes on a Saturday or Sunday, you have to open up your computer and, you know, do your thing in Web3 because the market is either bumping or crashing.
So it's a double edged sword or knife.
But yeah, for sure, in terms of people are attracted to WhiskeyCast, and that's also one of the reasons why we decided to go for more of a Web2 eBay kind of UI, UX, because we know that this overall DGN and Web3 isn't going to be very attracted to a stable return of 10 to 12% per year.
So that's also why we want to open it up and basically have people, you know, create an account, do KYC, fill in your credit card details and just buy it.
On the back end, that's like the whole NFT that gets minted to get the post in your wallet, in your account.
And eventually you can also, you know, interact and you can integrate your wallet with it.
And then at a certain point, we also hope to enable withdrawals and everything.
So we do want to attract the Web3 as well, but still the majority is still Web2.
So that's the biggest audience.
And that's where we see the most upside as well.
Yeah, it's funny that we, like, I kind of agree with you with like the
terminology stuff. Like, it's funny that we use terms like web two and web three. Like, I also
find it kind of funny that like encrypt, like in crypto on crypto Twitter, um, we see like networks
competing against each other. And I'm just like, it's, there's like 90 to 95% of the people that
just like, aren't here yet. And yet we're like competing like against you know x network or whatever i actually interviewed um so like there's a couple of other projects i can
think of that they kind of have a similar brand ethos on the home page where they just try to
abstract out blockchain as much as or crypto as much as possible which i think is smart and makes
sense um lofty on algorand i think does this so they have a real estate uh
tokenized real estate marketplace and i don't think that they use the word crypto or just any
any of that type of stuff they just say hey here's what it is and it's it's quicker it's cheaper you
can own you know fractional ownership of these assets and it is what it is but um if you had to
walk through some milestones that you guys have had jeremy like since kind of the inception of what you guys are doing at Cask Capital, what do you think sticks out to you as far as like milestones you guys have achieved?
Well, first of all, milestone was being the first, I think, yeah, I'm pretty confident the first on-chain marketplace for Scotch Whiskey Cask. for scotch whiskey cask so we wear that badge with a lot of honor um and not necessarily in
hedera but in an entire web3 blockchain ecosystem a huge milestone was the success of uh our first
fractionalized gas that sold out really fast and then we listed the second one and went out fast
so we noticed a quite a big demand in terms for fractionalized casks, which was very important for us to realize.
Then, of course, on the physical side of things, we're sending our first portfolios to funds and family offices.
That was also a massive milestone for us.
And we launched our own independent independent uh bottling brand called integrity
malts and that's also that's like part of the journey and i think i didn't highlight this enough
but we really want to cover the entire whiskey life cycle and it's quite easy to just list cask
and sell them but eventually it needs to get and it needs to have an exit as well and the exit is when it's poured into a bottle so that's also one of the main reasons we started
uh integrity mods because we want to provide that exit exit to the cask owners um so these were
massive milestone for us i mean we're still young uh we're still growing we're gonna launch the
basket feature a purchase feature soon,
about the end of the week probably, which a lot of users ask for because it's funny enough,
we have quite some users that buy several fractions of one cask.
So we wanted to make it a little bit more convenient for them
to be able to select the amount that they want to buy instead of, you know,
doing four separate purchases.
So I'm really now really looking forward to upgrading the marketplace,
adding features to it.
And next phase, which I'm very excited for but still
needs a lot of work, is launching a tokenized fund
backed by WhiskeyCast.
So making more of an open fund where
you can rotate the casks as they age over time and then the token
holders can basically benefit from what we're doing with the whiskey cask management yeah it's
pretty cool uh even mentioning like the the the life cycle management stuff because i think that
you get into like multiple different uh areas like which again like i know we're talking about like
abstracting away like the technology and things like that but like you get to like use different
portions of the technology whether it's like hedera consensus service or um whatever it may be
you know what i mean in the future and really kind of um do like the track and trace too because you
mentioned that there's like an issue with transparency uh from in the traditional industry um obviously if you're tracking things kind of since like from inception
to bottling uh you kind of solve that and then there's obviously there's inherent value in that
too i would imagine yeah yeah definitely definitely yeah i mean eventually data data has value uh it
has value in terms of you know gaining knowledge on our side on a business level,
but also to provide knowledge and educate on the user side.
And that's something that's also we're really looking forward to,
having that data and collecting it and being able to educate.
Because education also, it's one of our key aspects is that's
part of the whiskey life cycle selling cask bottling but also educating because it's it's
not a very common thing and we're aware of that and that's also part of opening it up you need
to also educate people how to invest in whiskey gas and be cautious not to make the wrong moves
lead us out here jeremy with with your kind of forward-looking statements
or just broader thoughts from Cask Capital standpoint
or just a wider kind of digital asset space.
We'd love to hear them.
So for Cask Capital, we have our marketplace live,
as you know, we have two new Cask listed as well,
fractionalized.
The next step would be to further expand uh blockchain
use cases for whiskey cask and i mentioned one tokenized fund but maybe in the future
end game maybe we'll even be able to provide a dex where you can you know trade derivatives or
options based on whiskey cask or trade cask one like between different distilleries so a real
a real marketplace a dex where you can actively trade in a very liquid environment
in whiskey cast that's something that we hope to achieve in the future and that's something we are
that's like our ambition and in terms of the digital asset space I believe that these
types of asset classes and the same for whiskey cask or wine cask luxury watches real estate
these assets that were prior to blockchain innovation were very inaccessible they will
all be opened up and I think this will probably have a far bigger role in a future economy and a future mindset of investing.
Because art will be easy to invest in.
So people will divert from the traditional way of investing in stocks and eventually move towards these kinds of asset classes.
That's how I see it growing.
100%. Well, I see it growing. 100%.
Well, I have it popped up on the screen here for everybody watching.
Go give at caskcapital a follow on X and check out the website caskcapital.io.
Jeremy, it's been awesome having you guys today.
I would love to have you guys on again in the near future.
And thank you so much.
Thank you for having us on.
Until next time all right guys i'm going to bring up uh the uh trade and orbit team here and we're
going to move into kind of the next half hour here i've always forget forgotten how these two
hour spaces just wear me down but uh we're gonna we're gonna get into the weeds here um so uh i've
got juno up here and i've got uh weston up here let me remove my uh
hiding of you weston and uh hey what's up guys i always like to start these out with a little bit
of an intro so i'll let you guys kick us off juno i'll start with you cool hey thanks for having us
um i'm juno i go by juno on the web these days um i'm also brother in the club h bar discord and
i've been there for like five years now four and
a half um so that's kind of how i got exposed to the hash pack team and we've been on friendly
terms for years now so they're they're good friends awesome weston uh floors yours yeah
weston uh fair of the mage on different social aspects on x or discord um been part of hedera for i think around four or five
years now uh juno actually got me involved into it we go way back and uh playing world of warcraft and
we would always trade crypto on the side and he's the one that sort of first got me into the club
hbar ecosystem that's true so you guys are ogs and hedera i'm assuming then right with with club h
or how long have you guys both been in the ecosystem? My first wallet was my HBAR wallet and thank God I came around. Yeah, so
I've been around for sure. My first wallet was my HBAR wallet and I'm glad that most people
entering the network these days just won't ever know about that. What about you? I'm about the
same. I mean, i think we joined the
ecosystem probably within a month of one another um my hbar wallet wallet wallet was my first
experience uh jumping in yeah the walla wallet team actually helped me because i had a similar
my hbar wallet uh with uh what was a daily time stamp in that three-week period in 2019 where you
could like read articles and get uh streamed micro paymentsments in HBAR and like open beta. And I like, it was a wonky, like,
I think it was like 22 word key phrase or something like that. But like, yeah, interesting.
Tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing with trade and orbit though.
Just we can do like kind of the big breakdown here yeah so trading on hts on the network has kind of been
a loosely convoluted process where you kind of need multiple browsers open just to kind of make
a quick educated decision so the inspiration for orbit was to create like a hub or a one-stop shop
for just more efficient and fast trading.
And we spent time on other networks over the last couple of years and just kind of saw the tooling
that was available for them. And maybe even further than that, like the standard of trading
that has been set on other networks. And we kind of just identified that if we're serious about
onboarding retail to HBAR, which is again, the network that we're, it's our home. We kind of have to have similar, if not better infrastructure built for this retail community to
see, because if they come here and they don't have the tools that they're used to, they're probably
just going to get a negative impression on the network really quickly. So that was kind of the
inspiration for delivering Orbit and where it came from.
Awesome. Weston, anything?
No, I mean, I mean, that's where we got our start, right? I mean, we, we looked at other
networks and we realized, you know, they've got all these other applications that these
retail traders are focused on, you know, BullX, Photon, you know, they got BonkBot, Axiom,
there's all these advanced tools that are high speed that connects them to all the decks and token launch pads some even embed you know fiat transaction onboarding and so they've
got all these tools on you know solana and base that these users are you know aware of and they're
used to in their daily day trades and when they come to hedera you know they see the decks they
see hash pack you know we've got lending now with Bonzo. But they're they don't
have that home, you know, base what they're used to, they want
a location to where they can easily see everything all in one
location. They don't want to open up deck screener and have,
you know, pump fun or mean job up on another screen and the decks
on another. And so it's really just consolidating everything
into one screen to where they can see
all the important analytical data
and also have the ability to buy and sell
within that instance without having to go
to additional pages.
What do you guys think like right now,
as far as, I feel like you guys have probably really interesting insights as far as like
where the network is at from the DeFi stance.
And, you know, I guess my first question in that regard is that,
where's the network at as far as DeFi is concerned?
And then we'll open it up from there.
I mean, I would say the network is
like really it's been getting its legs for years now and now it's it feels like it's at a nice
jaunt or a run let's say um you know we finally got collateral lending with bonzo um there's a
lot of like core pieces that kind of ignite defy and let it go crazy that we've finally gotten and
i think that so the state of DeFi on Hedera
is a really exciting place.
And, you know, we're seeing DEXs now kind of heat up
with SaucerSwap pushing,
smart contract supporters,
low-duty support, ERC support.
You know, to me, that kind of just screams
that they are really trying to bring in layer zero liquidity,
whether it be USDC or the big boys, Bitcoin, Ethereum.
And that all trickles down into a healthy DeFi ecosystem.
So I would say that, you know, HBAR is at a really exciting place.
If you're following like the USDC getting issued and minted on the network,
it's going up big time, like almost every day it feels like.
So I would say the writing's on the wall.
And that was definitely a nice like fire under our team
to really hustle and get this out.
Yeah, same question for you, Weston,
as far as where we're kind of at right now.
I think we've got a great foundation.
We're in the right place for, you know,
a huge DeFi expansion into 2025.
You know, I'll be honest, I do think we're behind
and that's where the Orbit's goal is
for the next six months,
how can we try and speed us up
to match some of those toolings and infrastructure
that Solana and Base have, for instance.
But on the other hand,
we're seeing a lot of like advancements
on like our HIP development
and some other tools in the ecosystem,
like HIP 99.1 just came out for AI consensus.
So, I mean, that's gonna help out a lot.
I don't know if you're aware of it or if you've seen it,
but like on base, one of the big things right now
is AI agent token trading on social platforms.
And so HIP 99.1 really is gonna help out
with that expansion and development.
So it could be cool to see by the end of 2025,
maybe we have on Hedera our own native AI agents trading for us,
you know, just by the user prompts in X or Discord or Telegram, for instance.
And so there's a lot of infrastructure being built
that I think is definitely helping us and putting us in the right direction.
direction but overall I do think we're behind but 2025 I think it's going to be a great year for us
But overall, I do think we're behind,
but 2025 I think is going to be a great year for us.
and I think like um you know if you look at like agentic AI and um AI uh agents you know doing
trading and things like that I would imagine that things like fixed fees and and you know some of
the other network capabilities really set it apart where like could you do something like that you know on
ethereum natively where like you know transactions are 15 to you know 134.16 or whatever it may be
like if you're running stuff through that but yeah i'm looking i have this pulled up right now as far
as usdc it looks like uh 80.5 uh million um you guys have been tracking this stuff though and i think
that was do you think the catalyst here was what were what were the some of the exchanges exchanges
that crypto.com started i think with the native usdc onboarding and i think we had a few other
centralized exchanges listing it as well um that have really ramped it up i remember seeing this
number like back in november i think it was i want to say like 15 or 20 million or something it was less than 20 million back in
november so it's really just kind of exploding which feels great what are some of the things
that you feel like are missing because i i know it's interesting because like you guys are obviously
building orbit um but i'm sure that you you, you're like, man, if we only had
more manpower, we could do all this other shit too. What are some of the other things that you
feel like are kind of like low hanging fruit aspects that could be built on the network?
Yeah, man, we've got a lot of features like that. We're personally planning out that I think we're
missing from the ecosystem.
You know, I know Saucer just announced it.
We've been working on it as well with limit orders.
Another aspect that we're tackling right now
are scheduled transactions.
You know, the ability to buy and sell
on a set interval that a user wants to.
And we do have that capability on the network.
The documentation was released, I think two or three months ago on Hedera. And so that's something that, you know, we're
missing that other networks do have regarding, you know, set scheduled transactions. So I think
that'll be a huge aspect once it goes live. I would say like other things that are missing too,
perps and futures on HB it's not not quite here yet
um we might not even have like the scene or the demand for that quite yet uh i'd say that the h
barbarian community is like pretty interesting in like their trading patterns and how they trade and
what they like to trade um it's a lot of i would say like safer and smarter people across the board
largely um if you go into like the CD corners,
you'll find the people leverage trading for sure
because they exist everywhere.
But yeah, I would say like futures and perps,
limit orders by and large.
I know Diffuse just came out with their order book,
which is awesome to see,
but more advanced types of limit ordering on the network.
That's something that is missing for sure i want to ask you guys because
i see this post here um just about i i think hedera has a really unique ecosystem of kind of
like i don't want to say unsung uh heroes but it's been interesting to watch like over the past few
years that like a lot of like community leaders have taken kind of infrastructure
leadership roles like I can think of like Brandon from H graph and all the great work that he's doing
alongside his partner what's his is it Tyler his other partner I think it's Tyler but what's your
guys experience with some of these platforms like leveraging H graph or leveraging Arkea or whatever
it may be like and what what are the interactions like yeah I'll say like H graph or leveraging Arkea or whatever it may be like, and what are the interactions
like? Yeah, I'll say like H graph specifically has been awesome. They're very responsive.
They're, you know, always, you know, replying and, you know, giving us some feedback and
what their next developments are. And so, I mean, they've been instrumental in, you
know, our, you know, R and D development of this platform, for instance, without them, we would probably be using
DexScreener APIs, GeckoTerminal APIs,
probably more heavily.
And with HGraph, we've gotten that to where
it's almost like the data's live.
It's within a second or two.
So it's reading on-chain everything instantly
compared to the other sources would be delays. But just working with HGraph and Brandon, I mean, awesome.
I mean, I'd say one of the top teams that we've been talking to
regarding onboarding and then helping out other builders.
Yeah, it's just a piggyback like HGraph has been great.
I wasn't present in the call, but when our
Solidity and API guy got in a chat with them just to kind of communicate, I'm like, hey, you know, we're kind of trying to do this with HGraph.
HGraph is like, whoa, that's really exciting.
We haven't seen anyone do that yet.
And this is going to be an open conversation.
So like we're kind of pushing the envelope on what their tooling can provide.
And that's really exciting, I think, for both of us, like our team and theirs, because we can kind of collaborate on our use case documentation and just help push the ecosystem as a whole forward um but yeah
nothing but praise for the hgrap team what do you guys what are you guys's thoughts just like
in general i mean i feel like this has been a really interesting like i don't know i know a
lot of some people are for like the four-year cycle
cycle narratives and some people just are like four-year cycles don't exist um they're not a
thing uh but uh you know what are your guys's thoughts as far as where we're at right now
because i feel like um we had like a a lot of you know oh my god it's happening uh from november until let's say like january uh and or maybe just
november and december and now we're kind of back into that like uh oh my god you know this this
space is never going to go anywhere like what am i doing like what are your guys's thoughts i mean
you've been here for a while so you probably have some reserved like some reserved perspectives as far
as just like whatever happens happens type thing i'm just going to keep building yeah for sure i
would say like if you've been here long enough that oh my god it's happening uh that's not the
first time you felt that so you kind of realize that maybe this is not the time and it's not
actually happening um it definitely gives you more perspective, like the more quote unquote cycles you go through.
I think you just kind of know
that maybe things play out differently.
And I would think that over time,
you maybe start to position yourself accordingly
to that kind of new mindset that you have towards markets.
I would say that the world is pretty clown world right now.
And it's kind of just, we're in a weird spot market wise.
To your point, we had a really awesome run up end of last year.
And I think a lot of people were stoked on that.
It was what, like 1200, 1300% run up on HBAR.
That's great.
I don't think anybody's complaining about that, right?
But I would say that with each cycle, whether it be bear or bull, HBAR in the ecosystem
is getting more and more fleshed out.
And if you've been paying attention, for me, that just makes being here even more comfier
because you see that these critical pieces of infrastructure are finally coming.
Again, I'll say Bonzo because I think collateral lending is a wild, wild catalyst in setting
out DeFi on a network.
So the tooling's coming, advancements are happening, everything's good. The market's
going to be, you know, the market, but I'm pretty, I'm pretty zoomed out at this point, I think.
Weston, any thoughts?
I mean, same thing. I mean, I feel like we've gone through enough cycles
where, I mean, personally,
I feel like I'm numb to the ups and downs
regarding like where we are now.
I mean, I'm not too worried.
I mean, it's not gonna change anything
that we're building over at Orbit.
I think we'll be fine 2025.
We might be in a slump for a couple more months,
but overall, I mean,
I think the overall ecosystem is doing fantastic.
More developers, more infrastructure every single year.
And so ever since like December, November,
I think I've gotten very optimistic with the network
compared to past years.
There were some dark years for Adair for sure in the past,
but after the last, I'd say six months, very optimistic.
What are your thoughts on Hashphere?
I know that just got, well, officially kind of just got, you know, pushed out today as
far as like Q3.
Was talking to May about that from Hashpack for like the first half hour here.
Yeah, I mean, just in general, like if you guys have thoughts on like what that potentially
represents, if you think that there's going to be actual crossover uh with the public network eventually i think that that probably
deals a lot in like the regulatory clarity type aspects and liquidity and but yeah yeah i mean i
think i think a lot of us knew it was going to happen right it's the only way like in my opinion
like i come from corporate world i don't think there would ever be you know these large entities
that would come online where all their data would be public, for instance. And I think spheres is one of the
solutions that we've known is probably going to happen. I know Lehman talked about it, you know,
way back into coming into fruition. But, you know, I think it's great, fantastic. I do think
I do think there's going to be some overlap in the future between the public network and the spheres.
there's going to be some overlap in the future between the public network and the spheres.
But yeah, I think it was a needed requirement to come online and I'm glad I saw it.
I think it came out this morning.
Yeah, it came out this morning.
I'm just like, I think what's interesting is like, you know, this industry kind of takes narratives and like runs with them, right?
Like every, any narrative, any and all narratives that this industry takes and runs and i think one
of the things that we've seen especially over the past like year let's say like 12 to 18 months was
like rwa tokenization i don't necessarily think that that's a narrative i think that that's 100
actually happening um but i still feel like if you look at like where it's at compared to like
where assets globally are at it is like a less than a it's not even a misting
in the bucket of like global assets and a lot of these aggregators have the the numbers
not all represented uh if you go to like rwa underscore xyz i think it's like 20
16 or 20 billion uh rwas on chain uh excluding stable coins and that i think is really interesting because like when
you get into like tooling for defy which is certainly what you the realm that you guys are
playing in i think all this stuff is going to be used uh for real world assets once once they come
on chain and everything starts interoperating like so i guess i'll get into like a big quick
picture question as far as like tokenization and this stuff is concerned like where where do you guys think it all kind of shakes out because you you've watched from nothing to
where we're at now where do you think we're going to be at like by the end of the decade let's say
oh geez okay now if you've got thoughts you can go i'm thinking
anything that you say is going to be wrong by the way for this question 100 percent
yeah i don't know i'm out in the silicon valley outside of san francisco so for years now i've
heard personal stories of like oh yeah i was able to pay for this mansion in bitcoin um and that's
like not even a tokenized real estate deal right so um i would say like two years ago three years
ago um tokenized real estate
was like a whole thing that people were kind of buzzing about. So that could be a factor,
kind of like a area that we see boom, perhaps. I definitely know that depending on the climate or
like the area that you live in, like something like that in the Silicon Valley, I could totally
see happen because it's already kind of been a concept that rich people and wealthy people out here have been utilizing um but you know you
might not see tokenized real estate happen in the midwest or like in places that maybe just don't
have that much exposure to crypto um but i think i think we're gonna see a lot of different things
get tokenized and i don't even know if it's going to be like
readily available to the user base that's interacting with
it, they might not even know it's tokenized. And I think kind
of similar to how we all use computers, and we don't know how
computers work. Like, that's probably the goal of tokenizing
real world assets is that the users really don't kind of kind
of know that that's happening. And when that happens, I think
that's a really successful moment in which it'd be like wildfire.
It would just take off.
Yeah, I just think overall,
I mean, you said 10-year outlook.
I mean, I feel like the narratives
switch so fast and so often in crypto.
You just have to have teams and creators,
especially on Hedera,
that are willing to
pivot and make those changes be compatible with them as as we progress you know we just got noticed that you know saucer swap is going to be doing the erc20 onboarding as well as i think
there's another application called bullsfi it's an amm that's also doing erc20 liquidity onboarding
and so overall i mean things switch and sometimes
you're not giving notice sometimes you are um but you just have to be compatible and open to
just make that shift and and work with the uh changes that come in and so i mean that's one
thing that that we're adding into our roadmap definitely is erc20 compatibility yeah i think um
you mentioned like things change so quick like i i brought this up in like a
i think it was like the last interview i did with the the para uh algo wallet guy um guy but um
we were talking about how like the biggest uh trend in crypto in 2021 was like a metaverse right
and it was literally just people launching, like releasing like high quality trailers.
People are like, oh my God,
this is like what the metaverse is gonna look like.
Great, like where do I buy this?
And then obviously like that didn't shake out.
What I think is interesting is,
and this is what I've said before is like,
I think it's gonna be like a mixed bag.
Like retail is certainly super important, but I almost think like a lot of the tooling that's built is to kind
of like serve like the very beginnings of like what like kind of mass adoption like but right
now it's like you have to have like a level of technical know-how but yeah you have to kind of
build it that way first because that's the industry that we're in.
But once it's kind of there, you have to start abstracting away like the complexity of using
things like I think a lot of the times we talk about crypto adoption is like this flip
of a switch moment where like people are just going to start using it.
And that's just like the opposite of what's actually occurring.
Like traditional institutions and enterprises are, they don't really care about blockchain
and DLT. They care about blockchain and dlt they care
about solving problems that they have and if blockchain and dlt happens to solve them great
but it'll be interesting to watch like i think that what i do a thousand percent think is an
interesting thought experiment is we've seen like these enterprises and institutions aren't
necessarily the ones that are doing the innovation so So what I feel like is really interesting is like,
okay, if somebody is building a trading platform
or somebody is building a borrowing and lending protocol
or somebody is building a wallet application,
like do those eventually gets either utilized
or white labeled or acquired just outright
by these enterprise and institutions
as they really start coming on board?
Because I don't think they're going to be the ones building the stuff.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel like it's going to lean more towards acquisition
or the platforms themselves, like the trading platforms,
making services for API calls for these larger entities.
But I would not be surprised
if these traditional fiat industries
do a lot of acquisition of Web3 applications.
Yeah, I think it's like, if you look at,
even look at like, I guess another big entity
in this space like Ripple
and what I think Ripple is trying to do
is essentially be like the custodian for RWAs in general and i feel like obviously hedera i'm sure
and the entities are probably trying to do something very similar because i think the
writing's on the wall with tokenized real world assets and it's like what's going to end up shaking
out from this um you start seeing like blackrock like i mentioned before like blackrock and some
of these other entities that are already here it's like okay um you know how do we kind of fortify our position but being said guys i want
to get into some milestones from you guys like from orbit standpoints um from when you guys
launched to kind of where you're at now and uh yeah anything that kind of sticks out to you as
far as uh what you guys are kind of have achieved. Yeah, I mean, I'll go through a couple of milestones,
Juno, and then I don't know if you want to talk about
the NFT stuff, for instance.
So, end of this week, we're finalizing a lot of our
in-house tooling and then we'll get into a couple
of trusted users to do beta access.
And then we're hoping to open that up probably by mid
end of next week, letting some of our NFT holders get in there and start
playing around with the platform. But like regarding future milestones and what we're
doing, we're going to be supporting V1, V2 pools on SaucerSwap to begin with. Then, you know,
a few weeks later, we're going to be releasing limit orders, DCA, you know, like I talked about
earlier with scheduled transactions.
We want users to be able to set intervals for buys and sells for any HTS token, not just HBAR
or some of the larger liquidity that they might want. But also like we have a trading platform,
it's a DeFi, people like gamified systems. And so we are going to have a gamified point
system released on our platform
that's going to be based off of user activity,
such as trading activity.
We're going to have some referral functionality.
So if you're a current user,
you'll be able to refer other users
and get rewarded based off of that.
So there's a lot of stuff that we have in the roadmap.
Like I said, we want to make it
where we can have ERC
20 compatibility, we want to get mean job integrated. So you can see those, you know,
very early hype tokens. I know that was huge in December, when they launched out, and there's a
lot of volume and transaction going through there. And so we've already reached out to them that we
want to onboard and get their data feeds in there and start interacting with their contracts but there's so much to do i mean every single day we find like you know another gap
that we could fill in hedera that um you know applications on solana and base and
these other ecosystems that are retail focused have yeah uh and then yeah piggybacking off that
we launched an nft collection in about a week and a half, two weeks ago in like the debt of retaliatory tariffs happening all over the place and the market being uncertain.
But they're out and we kind of wanted to create like a rewarding utility based NFT for like the power user in mind so the people that see orbit and
think that they're going to be using it quite a bit uh how can we make that situation better
for them so lifelong perks such as like reduced fee reductions i think if you cap out with the
orbit nfts uh trading in orbit is the cheapest front end to trade with in the entire network
with in the entire network brings it down to like a 0.37.2% transaction fee. And then a point
multiplier. So back to like what Weston was saying about how users can kind of earn these points,
they'll be able to earn more points with the multiplier and there'll be other ways to earn
or to gain multipliers. Like let's say we do quests and have like oh if you refer five people to the platform
you get 10 or a 10x or a 2x multiplier on your points um so we like that kind of gamified
community competition element to the trading into the platform as large um so as it stands those
nfts are going to be the only way to get access into Orbit. It's going to be closed beta for a while at this point.
But when we do kind of launch referrals, that will be a way to get access into the platform without having an NFT.
You guys mentioned having faith in what's going on from like the retail front within the ecosystem as well.
faith and uh what's going on from like the retail front within the ecosystem as well and it seems
like we've seen i think everybody you know was kind of hearing like inklings of changes over kind
of um middle to tail end of last year uh you know what are you guys's thoughts as far as uh where
we're at right now uh as far as like hadera uh ecosystem retail and um you see some positive
momentum uh just kind of in general thoughts as we kind of ramp out here yeah i would say that as far as like Hedera ecosystem retail and you see some positive momentum,
just kind of in general thoughts as we kind of ramp out here.
Yeah, I would say that Charles like really shook up
the foundation and speaking from retail, like for the better.
I think it's night and day,
like a completely different organization
in how they're carrying themselves on social media,
how they are kind of like getting their feet wet
and stepping into retail spaces and like being a voice and a face in these communities.
It's a completely different tone from the foundation.
And I think that just helps retail feel more seen and make it just feel more of like an actual priority that's being addressed.
But yeah, I think what Charles has done and Zepsi and everyone, they're great.
Big fan of the foundation as it stands.
Yeah, there was definitely a large pivot at the foundation.
I mean, I'm not going to name project names, but I know like, you know, for instance, in
how retail focus has gotten, like there's meme tokens now that are requesting grants
and they're susceptible to them as well.
And so there's been a major shift.
I mean, this is something that would be unheard of,
you know, if you've been in Hedera the last four
or five years or so, I would never have imagined,
you know, a meme token or, you know,
some retail focused apps to get the attention
that they are now.
But after the last, you know, three months,
I'd say there's been a huge internal shift,
especially with Charles' leadership
to where they're more open to supporting and funding a lot
of these, you know, startups to help, you know, speed up the infrastructure that's happening on
Hedera. So I think it's going to be major. Awesome. Well, I definitely appreciate your
guys's time. And for those that are watching, make sure you guys go give Or orbit a follow at trade in orbit and uh check out the uh the site at orbit tech
hbar.io uh yeah thank you guys so much and please feel free to reach out as you have upcoming
initiatives and and stuff like that to come talk about we would love to have you guys back on again
yeah thank you solomon thanks for having me thank you all right guys well bear with me for one second
as i bring up the uh the origin team here and uh thank you
to trade in orbit uh i know it's always a nightmare coordinating these uh kind of back to back to back
ones so jonathan thank you for joining us today from origin standpoints and uh i believe um do we
have anybody else from origin coming in or is it just you today you're oh you're muted if you go to um either unmute or in settings
can't hear you yet if you go into settings and audio you should be able to test your mic
okay can you hear me i can hear you now okay nice there's a button on my keyboard for the
microphone apparently which certainly you guys have been busy in hedera recently and i mean i Okay, nice. There's a button on my keyboard for the microphone, apparently.
Well, hey, I mean, certainly you guys have been busy in Hedera recently.
And I mean, I would love if you can maybe to kick us off here, give us just an intro of yourself. And then we'll kind of deep dive into Origin.
Absolutely. Sure thing.
So my name is Jonathan. I'm the CEO at Origin here.
And I've been in crypto about, I like to say this,
I like to say my Genesis block, which I stole from a legal podcast by Jacob Robinson. My Genesis
block was in 2017. I bought Bitcoin and kind of forgot about it. So it was a nice price. It was
about four and a half thousand dollars, nice early entry. But as I said, I forgot about it. And then kind of a few years
passed and the lockdown happened and I started scrolling through TikTok and I saw this crypto
content and thinking to myself, I'm an attorney. This is a new disruptive emerging technology.
There's definitely some potential here for some, you know, pioneering some new regulations
or policy or figuring out what's going on. So after that, I kind of pursued a master's degree in intellectual property law,
which was a great kind of nexus for a lot of crypto stuff at the time.
You know, as we know, IP was hugely important for NFTs and the whole NFT wave back in 2000s.
So I joined the Neo Tokyo NFT community and minted that NFT. And in that
community, I met Bing, who is a good friend of mine now and my colleague at Origin. And he started
the MetaLaw Web3 Law firm. So our focus was Web3 Law. And with law and with Metlaw we've helped over 200 companies get off
the ground you know with strategic regulatory advice startup assistance networking you know
helping these guys make a company in the crypto space and giving them the advice they need
but he also created a kind of venture fund which Sublime Ventures is one of the largest funds in Canada for crypto.
I believe 70 million USD was deployed last year in about 45 companies with really a bunch of successful exits.
So we've got a track record of success there, like 10x to 100x with Super Oracles, Portal, Heroes of Mavia, Cedify, Chainlink.
So really, really successful stuff.
And the premise for that is decentralized investment,
where we have a lot of smaller investors who invest small amounts of money,
but because there's a lot of them, it all gathers up.
So you've got a large ticket with maybe 500 people all donate all investing small
amount of money and that's uh kind of the mechanism that we are porting over from our sister company
to hedera with origin so as you can see on the screen here get in on the ground floor because
the problem that we foresaw was that venture capital is really restricted to the higher
the one percent guys know, the very wealthy
guys who are able to make these deals and do it early stage before retail investors can even
realize something is happening. So to give access to, you know, the everyday crypto investor is
something really valuable and something that I think everybody thinks is worthwhile.
valuable and something that i think everybody thinks is worthwhile for sure no i think one of
the things that we've seen in uh historically in the digital asset space and in crypto is that like
by the time that somebody's posting about something on twitter uh they've already secured
their position like to an extent so like i think like opening up opportunities for people
uh to potentially like participate like earlier on before projects launch is certainly really
interesting like um i'll ask like you know the low-hanging fruit question here uh you know you
guys are launching on hedera what kind of stood out to you within uh the hedera ecosystem the
network um yeah just in general sure so my on Hedera is that it's,
obviously everyone calls it the enterprise blockchain, right? I view it as much more
mature than the other blockchains that we've seen with great volume. So obviously we all know Solana
is meme coin central and it's kind of really destructive to the whole crypto cypherpunk
kind of behavior and attitude that we have and i don't don't really
like that so hedera more mature more professional and also i see it as more like a stepping stone
or a bridge for um as you guys were talking about web2 companies before to bring these guys into
crypto uh you know these these guys they they do careful due diligence they do a lot of research they're
you know they're very risk aware and they don't want to invest in a solana type network meme coin where the guys are just doing things by the seat of their pants you know so i view hedera as more
mature that way it's something that we can onboard the tech giants to web3 through
we can onboard the tech giants to web three through?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
No, I, it's interesting because, yeah,
I think we were talking about that before,
as far as like, and I'm always curious,
like what people kind of assume networks are doing
and, you know, nothing against Solana,
but I mean, obviously when you see something
like PumpFun go down, you know,
as far as volume is concerned, go down down 97 as far as like in volume it's like at some point the carol like the carousel
stops right like because people realize like this is like it's kind of like a rigged game you know
i mean for lack of a better phrasing um yeah so walk us through i mean i think the announcements
and i know we we we uh i think released kind of an
article for you guys as well um the announcement was what like a month ago maybe a month and a half
ago like where are you guys at as far as stage of of launching and things like that right now
sure so we came out of stealth about february 20th which is when you're when you kindly did
that article for us which was great uh we're kind of
still in our go-to-market phase uh we're trying to gather up as many communities as we can make
some partnerships and collaborations our goal really is to onboard as many hedera people as we
can to origin and then after that we want to onboard as many crypto people as we can to hedera
and origin and then after that we want to onboard as many non-crypto people to
crypto and then hedera and origin so it's kind of like this waterfall pyramid of onboarding people
but right now we are kind of i'd say maybe a month out from launching some things that are
in the pipeline so what we have coming up is uh an free mint and HBAR staking. And these are
kind of key elements to our TGE. So TGE is going to be, I think, late June, July time. But in the
run up to that, as I said, we're offering HBAR staking, which depending on how much HBAR you
stake and how long you stake it for, it's going to earn you points on one of our leaderboards and the leaderboard points determine how much allocation
you get at our tge for our origin token the nft will be a multiplier for the points so you know
you have an nft you get a bit multiplier you have two you get a bit more multiple multiples
and the origin token itself is gonna be
kind of the access key to the platform.
It's a utility token that grants you access.
And again, it's gonna be tiered access.
So the more origin you have,
the better access you get to the platform.
You know, we are an investment fund.
So we do things like we have fees for investing
just so that we can make sure
we're still running the business
so the more origin token you have the fees will actually come down so it will be cheaper for you and you'll get more return on your investment that way but yeah so that's all coming up in the next
couple of weeks and as i said platform launch should be around the end of june july time
what's interesting is uh you know i don't think this is even just within Hedera I
think this is just like in in crypto in general I think a lot of the times you see like um you
see people get really excited and you see something launch uh because you mentioned kind of this funnel
and I would love if you could just walk us through a little bit so um onboarding uh you know Hedera
users and then onboarding kind of wider crypto users and then onboarding kind of non crypto users.
I think a lot of the times in a lot of networks, you see the first part of the funnel happen and then you kind of see it stop.
You don't see other crypto users being onboarded outside of other networks and you certainly don't see non crypto users being onboarded.
other networks. And you certainly don't see non-crypto users being onboarded. And even if
you do, it's like at a very like minimal level that almost seems like it would naturally happen
anyways. So I guess the question I have is like, you know, after you guys decide to launch on
Hedera, assuming that everything goes, you know, the way that you want it to go, how do you guys,
how do you reach out to the wider crypto audience? And then to take it a step further, how do you
reach out to the kind of the non-crypto audience
and get more people using the tech?
Yeah, this is definitely something
that we're struggling with.
You know, like crypto is very tribal.
You know, we're all crypto.
I mean, it's a small community as well.
So crypto is very small
compared to the bigger investing sphere.
And when you get down to it,
like each network is kind of a little tribe in its own and they're all very committed to
their own safe space that they're in so getting people to bridge over to another
network is something that you have to put a lot of work into doing actually
but with our project like what we see to do is to offer really good investment
opportunities and since they're on Hedera people have to do is to offer really good investment opportunities.
And since they're on Hedera, people have to come over to Hedera to take advantage of them.
So that's the thing we're doing.
In our kind of marketing just now, we are kind of trying to activate a lot of community members and KOLs from other networks like Ethereum, Solana, and bring them over that way. And that's generally working, but it's difficult
because a lot of those networks,
like as we were talking about, they're very extractive.
These guys are farming for whitelist spots
and token airdrops and stuff.
And maybe it's bad following, but it's following.
It's very difficult to make people cross those
those network lines you know yeah for sure um i think you know we even kind of talked uh offline
a little bit just you know before and i think one of the things that was interesting to me is like
people in crypto like it doesn't really matter at. At least this is purely just my opinion.
This isn't like a representation of anybody.
This is my opinion.
But people in crypto will navigate to wherever they need to navigate to if they feel like there's opportunity.
Like that's just bottom line.
So then the question then becomes how do you amplify reach to make sure that people are aware of it because you could have the best opportunity in the world.
But if nobody knows about it, they're not going to come because they don't know about it. So I think that's kind of the whole goal is just kind of nailing out,
you know, nailing down what the actual opportunity represented is, and then trying to make sure that
you can spread, spread the reach of it as much as possible. And that's a lot of different
tentacles. That's just, you know, that's probably not even just from, from origin standpoint,
that's like, you know, who the hell do we from from origin standpoint that's like you know
who the hell do we need to get in touch with to make sure that this thing is that this thing is amplified well you mentioned partnerships within the ecosystem as well i know we have uh have worked
with the hash pack team for forever in this in the ecosystem and what does that you know how did that
kind of come about what's the relationship with with hash pack or some of the other ones i know
i know kabila you guys just announced uh i think it was today or yesterday as well. And yeah network. So it's really the important wallet to have.
And Origin is an investment platform.
So people are dealing with money.
So it's important to have a wallet on board.
But, I mean, every interaction you do in blockchain,
you need to do it through your wallet.
So really, a hashback wallet.
Everybody should be partnering with hashback, really, you know.
But May, who you had on the show before, I saw her at a crypto event here in Vancouver last week.
And we're going to be going for lunch as well, I think, soon.
But yeah, she's in Vancouver, we're in Vancouver at Origin.
And it was a really good, kind of serendipitous meeting I think we had
so we're able to kind of closely work together that way with Kabila they are the main NFT
launchpad in the Hedera network so we are trying to partner with them very closely to
get that to happen they have a fantastic system in place to launch NFTs on their launchpad, NFT launchpad marketplace.
It's super self-explanatory and it's very easy and intuitive to use.
But even with all that good stuff, they came to us and said, hey, if you need help launching
your NFT in our marketplace, just hit us up and get in touch and we'll help you do that.
So that was really nice for them.
And yeah, that will be happening in a couple of weeks.
Sorry.
Yeah.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Other partnerships we're doing, we have in the pipeline, you know,
trying to work with HGraph to get some API analytics for Hedera
because that will be very important for the platform running later on.
So we're going to hopefully partner with them very closely.
Brandon is an electric guy, man.
That guy's energy is off the chain.
Brandon's a legend.
Yeah, he's a really good guy.
So I'm looking forward to working with him a bit more too.
And, you know, again, as I said,
Origin is an investment platform investment protocol. so it deals with money a lot.
So partnering with the likes of SaucerSwap and Bonzo will also be very important too.
And we've spoken with them a lot and we're trying to figure out what we can do with them.
And we're even, I think, potentially, or maybe I shouldn't say that.
say that something in the works you know something in the works yeah uh you know one thing one thing
Something in the works, you know, something in the works.
i think is interesting is um and i think it has been needed it's needed in every ecosystem but
certainly in hedera as well is like kind of that outreach into like vcs and things like that and i
i think um you know i'm curious because i know that this is like, I would assume like newer projects that are launching.
But have you guys, as you guys like, you know,
fortify your position in Hedera and things like that,
there's a lot of like builders in the Hedera ecosystem
that are, you know, amazing builders
that have basically built grassroots infrastructure
within the network itself.
I'm not even going to name any because
I'll probably leave people out because there's too many of them. What do you think the relationship
will be like over time? I think that this space, as you mentioned, crypto is still very small.
And relationship building and networking, I think, is probably the most important thing in crypto in
general. How do you see that kind of carrying over? Do you think that there'll be some carryover with
like networking and stuff like that with some of the infrastructure providers that are here or
just where you potentially see like opportunities going just for the network itself?
Not quite sure I understand the question. So you mean like where will our partnerships go down the
line after we launch or what i guess what i'm asking is like as you guys have like kind of
traditional relationships with vcs and things like that uh established do you think that that carries
over into more recognition for other things that are being built on hedera just kind of naturally
oh right i see you know what I mean? Yeah.
Okay. So yeah, for sure.
Bringing people from other networks, other VC investors to Origin is going to show them
everything else that's on Hedera because it's all so close in it.
So as I said, we're partnering with, or not partnering with, we are doing our free mint
We are doing our free mint on Kabila.
on Kabila.
We're going to be pushing people to CentX because that's the primary NFT marketplace afterwards if they want to buy or sell or trade anything.
So if they want to get access to the NFT for a multiplier, they're going to have to go to CentX.
So they have awareness and eyes on that.
If they want to buy our token, maybe it's going to be on Sorcererswap
or Bonzo for them to buy from a DEX. So they'll have eyes on that. And all this information is
going to be on our platform because part of our HBAR Foundation grant is that we want to shine a
spotlight on founders, teams, communities, and everyone in the Hedera ecosystem. So when we bring in people from
other networks, if we can, we'll show them this is the place to go for NFT launching. This is
the place to go for secondary sales. This is the place to go for, you know, decks or staking, or
you need a wallet, you know. So we'll show people definitely where to go in Hedera.
it you know so we'll we'll show people definitely where to go and head era yeah i think um you know
i'm curious your take just on in general on because obviously this is like you know a launch pad and
we've kind of we saw this kind of evolution uh throughout different networks i can think back
to ethereum and you know even 2020 2021 when kind of, well, DeFi obviously starting before that,
but like 2020, 2021,
where kind of the launch pad stuff ramped up
and everything else.
And I think it's interesting,
like we talk in crypto all the time about,
if you've been in crypto long enough,
you've been in crypto for a while,
you start kind of realizing that like we use this verbiage,
like democratization of finance
and all this stuff and that sometimes it doesn't happen in this space like we talk about it which
is great what the technology can do um we kind of like reinvent problems that like and weaponize
them like in web 3 versus what already exists out in the world i think it's interesting and you guys
are in a position that you can make meaningful change um with some of like the actual democratized access into like these different opportunities
and stuff and yeah I mean I would love if you could maybe just touch on that like why you guys
decided to go this route as far as you know really opening up up um opportunities like for you know
the every man and every woman out there outside of kind of this closed loop of like,
oh, all this, all the, all the back end deals are already done. And now, you know, now let's push it
to the mass populace, which, which happens all the time in crypto. Yeah. So I think I have an
answer to this and it may not be the correct answer because it wasn't myself that originally
came up with this solution to the problem. It was it was my partner bing and uh as i had mentioned before we both kind of arose
in the neo tokyo kind of nft community that community uh was started by alex becker and
elio trades who are big youtubers in crypto and their goal was to create a kind of community-led, community-run Web3 gaming networking space.
So they left it all to the community to do.
And, you know, we were in the Discord when it launched, figuring out how we can make this community.
And one of the solutions was what my partner, Bing, came up with was to make this decentralized investment platform for the users,
for the Neo Tokyo NFT holders
to take advantage of these deals.
So I think that's where the genesis of this idea came from.
We wanted to give opportunity to the other NFT community members.
And then obviously the next extrapolation from that is just to offer it to every retail
investor outside the community.
So that's where you get the gated access with an nft or with tokens just so
that people can come to the platform but they have to have you know an access key to get on it really
yeah well walk us through what you're excited about for the future here if I or if I missed
anything um let me know please and let's dive into it but um yeah I mean what excites you the
most about like whether it's the hedera network or whether it's
what you guys are doing with origin or just you know i don't even think we got into maybe i'll
let me let me start here first like yeah and then we'll get into forward looking statements like
what are your thoughts as far as like because you've been in crypto for a while in digital
asset space like i feel like over the past six to nine months and i've said this before like we've
seen so many announcements of real world adoption in the past six to nine months and I've said this before like we've seen so many announcements of real world
adoption in the past six to nine months that like almost multiple times daily that back in 2015 or
2018 or 2021 would have one of those announcements probably would have driven a three or six month
news cycle and now there's just so much happening that it's impossible to like keep up with what
are your thoughts just in general on the state of adoption and where we're going with like the blockchain space
yeah it's definitely a lot of stuff is getting lost in the noise of the world at the moment you
know things are controversial all over the place so i think a lot of people are looking for
good news in in more simple things like politics and economy and all that stuff.
So that's why they're missing these news things and they're not getting the traction they need.
But I'm excited about it all.
I mean, I heard, I think, a few months ago that a small town in India in Bengaluru put all their real estate on AVAX or something.
so that's huge that's massive like when i first came into crypto this was the first thing i thought
So that's huge. That's massive.
of as a use case for blockchain is the title of property of cars of all that stuff and and you had
a whiskey capital on before but i'm from scotland as well so i'm really interested in that whiskey
capital stuff too so but yeah like real world adoption is it's just happening very slowly and it's getting lost behind more pressing matters
i feel um i really like the idea of changing intellectual property laws and it's not happening
yet but the idea that you know you can track ip laws your copyright your trademark on the blockchain
blockchain I think that's something that's super interesting but not something I've seen happening
i think that's something that's super interesting but not something i've seen happening yet um
yet um actually one thing that's interesting so like you know we talk about RWAs and tokenized
RWAs and I've brought this up before like I think that we're a ways away from getting to this point
but I think that like our data our individual data essentially you know we're living in this
like very attention driven economy everything is about like where is my attention pulled and right now you know we're on twitter um and we are the product on twitter
because twitter's free so you know there's a reason that it's free um i think eventually like
our attention uh almost is incentivized and monetized and all the other things that comes
along with that as we actually like you know know, as this stuff like intermingles, all these different layers of text. So like,
when we think about tokenized real world assets, I fervently believe that our individual data is a
real world asset eventually that, you know, we basically get monetized for our time. I don't
know, you know, you could probably put, I guarantee you Twitter probably has statistics around what individual users' attention spans are.
You know what I mean?
Like, 100% they do.
Yeah, okay.
So to that point, I can drop some alpha here as well.
Our first project on Origin is going to be something social-fi that speaks to the point you're making just now.
making just now. So you're right. Like attention is everything in this space. And, you know,
So you're right.
Like, attention is everything in this space.
to track that with the current systems we have is really difficult. So,
I mean, everybody knows about OnlyFans these days, right? And they've had a really successful system
to get creators paid for putting content out there. And it's obviously it's because sex sells,
right? That's the reason. But the guys behind behind only fans are creating a social five platform called zoop and that's going to be
the first platform of the first project that we reveal on the platform and they it's it's a family
friendly version of only fans like a fan house thing uh where users will be able to interact
with their favorite content creators on this platform and leveraging the blockchain get them
the revenue that they deserve through that so we're actually really excited about that and and a lot
of people are too like they've been spoken about by the hbar foundation you know loads of news
outlets talking about zoop too so that's something to look out for yeah i think that's one of the
areas like there's a few areas like with with blockchain that i feel like just haven't they
seem like such no-brainers but they they haven't taken off like gaming is one of them um you know
and i'm i'll say that there's certainly have been some gaming projects in blockchain i think what
was it like axi infinity and some other stuff that have went into like the multi bill yeah exactly
that have went into the multi-billion market caps but it's like that that to me is like not necessarily like where i feel like
mainstream adoption of of dlt for gaming really kicks in so like gaming is one um i feel like
social aspects are are probably even bigger to an extent um and that'll be really interesting
to kind of watch to see how that
shakes out yeah and that's that's a cool announcement for you guys as well but um yeah
i mean this space is crazy i mean i would love if you could walk us out with what you're excited
about for the future of uh origin and for the future of the hedera network or just a wider
space and then we'll uh we'll ramp down here and appreciate your time absolutely so um as i just
mentioned there you know i'm excited for for Zoop launching on the platform.
I'm excited for the platform launch itself.
And really just coming to Hedera
has been a fantastic experience.
Everyone has been very, very welcoming.
Everyone's looking to help.
Everyone has the same goal in mind
to make Hedera an actual viable option
for people to choose, for retail to choose.
And the recent shift in focus of the HBAR Foundation has been very beneficial towards that,
and more focused on retail investors.
So definitely very interested to see the direction that we're going to go soon
and see if Origin can make a difference on the Hedera network.
What else am I excited about?
I'm excited about learning more about some whiskey that I
could invest in for sure. That's why we do these. I haven't done one of these in a while where it's
like, oh, and I always like forget that sitting here for two hours is a lot. But like, you know,
we were doing kind of these all hand spaces where you get like six
or seven people up there at one time, which I think are great.
We're going to continue doing those.
But we haven't done one of like the segmented like 30 minutes, 30 minutes, 30 minutes, 30
minutes.
And I love it whenever people so thank you whenever people actually say, hey, I'm excited
to have heard from this previous, you know, guest that you did on the space because it's
literally the reason that we do them.
You never know what type of networking connections
end up happening or somebody learned something
about something else.
And yeah, so thank you for that.
And yeah, I'm looking at a fantastic job
chopping it up with these guys as well.
So well done to you.
Yeah, I mean, well, they do the work.
Everybody else is doing the work for me
by just talking about what they're building, which is awesome. But yeah, I mean, I know, I mean, well, they do the work. Everybody else is doing the work for me by just talking about what they're building,
which is awesome.
But yeah, I mean, I know, you know, I'm sure that we'll be having you guys on in the future
as you guys launch and, you know, make relationships and all the other stuff that comes along with
And congratulations on the relationships you guys are forming in the ecosystem, the partnership
with Hashpack.
I want to give a huge shout out to Hashpack for helping us to put these spaces together.
We certainly will be doing some more in April,
maybe some cross-chain stuff.
For those that are watching,
obviously check out Enter the Origin
to learn more about what these guys are building.
And you can go to the website to learn more
at entertheorigin.xyz.
Hang out with me for a second here, Jonathan,
as I ramp this down
and really appreciate your time today.
