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hedera defi is UNLOCKED in 2025
Recorded: Aug. 20, 2025 Duration: 1:03:12Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. so you Thank you. Thank you. all right what's going on, everybody? Welcome to Wolf. Happy to be here. Happy Hump Day.
It's good to see everyone in here. Happy to talk about Hedera and everything that Bonzo
and Brady are building over there. By the way, we'd love to get the accounts up here.
Hedera accounts, I shot you a co-host invite and a speaker invite a few times. Let me know
if you guys are seeing that so we can get you up here to co-host the space and Bonzo
finance also would love to get you up on stage shot you a coast or a speaker
invite I mean know if these are going through I'm not sure if these are going
through maybe X but the Hedera shooting you the invite right now on some
shooting you an invite right now so if you guys hop up on stage we'll kick us
off pretty excited to jump into this conversation.
Yeah, I just got the DM back from Bonzo.
Yes, happy to get Brady on for sure.
But if you guys want to get the Bonzo account up on stage as well, just to be silent, that
is also fine down to do that as well.
Brady, I want to throw the mic over to you real quick and get some general thoughts and
a bit of introduction as well on sort of why, you know, look at Ethereum, Solan,
all these various blockchains you could choose, but what specifically stood out by Hedera that
convinced you to build here. And then also if you could just get a bit of a breakdown on what you
guys are doing over with Bonzo, and we'll get into the conversation. Awesome. Yeah,
happy to dive into it. Can you guys hear me all right? Yes, sir, I can. Perfect. Yeah, so my name is Brady Gentile. I'm the
co-founder and CEO of Bonzo Finance Labs. We're an independent development shop that contributes
to the open source development of the Bonzo Finance protocol. It's an open source, non-custodial
lending protocol that's based on Aave and modified to adapt to Hedera's UEM and the Hedera network.
Bonzo Finance is the liquidity layer of Hedera.
And what we mean by that is it's offering lending and borrowing services for the Hedera
DeFi ecosystem.
But oftentimes when you look at lending protocols across the Web3 space, they act as this foundational
layer of liquidity by which more advanced DeFi protocols can be built on top of and utilized, like perpetual markets or
index tokens, futures, vaults, things of that nature. And so Bonzo is positioned as maybe not
just a lending protocol, although it does offer that service initially today,
but has the ability to expand into other product offerings and protocol offerings,
like Vaults that we'll talk about later, in which it allows users to automate the liquidity that
they have and sort of interface with liquidity through Bonzo in order to interact with the rest of the Hedera
DeFi ecosystem. And my background is I actually worked at the Hedera network and then the labs
organization for Hedera for about five and a half years. Was very close with the DeFi ecosystem and
sort of core native Web3 ecosystem on the Hedera network and help foster its growth
and various community initiatives for that ecosystem.
And, you know, at the same time, obviously, Hedera has a very strong sort of enterprise
presence with its counsel and use cases.
But that had kind of always been where my focus was and passion was.
So I left the Labs organization early last year, identified this gap in the DeFi
ecosystem for lending and credit markets and built Bonzo Finance Labs. And so we launched
towards the end of last year. We're the number two DeFi protocol on the Hedera network in terms of TVL with about $60 million TVL right now
and around $12 million of active borrows.
And yeah, we have additional products
that are coming down the line.
Very cool stuff.
I appreciate that.
And excited to get into the conversation
and dive a bit deeper into everything going on.
Nat I know is our resident Hedera expert
and a long time Hedera supporter. She's know, is our resident Hedera expert and longtime Hedera supporter.
She's also the host of the Hedera Spotlight Show,
and so she's a ton in the Hedera world.
And so, Nat, it's always great to have you in these spaces.
Let's get some general thoughts over from you on everything that's going on with Hedera.
But how's it going?
It's going well, Kate.
Thank you for having me up.
You know, I am Hedera all the way.
And funny thing you
should mention on the show that we had on Friday, we went through the Hedera overall metrics and
HBAR is up over 300% compared to the overall market, about over 100% compared to Bitcoin,
200% compared to Ethereum, I believe. It's been a year for HBAR and I am a proud HBAR Barian.
But with that being said, Brady, I know we've spoken before on one of the shows.
I can't remember which one. I believe it was one that we did a few months ago.
But lending seems to be a thing now. You guys were ahead of the curve launching this way before.
So kudos to you. I just wanted to dive in with regards to the lending. What's the
process for those that have not heard how you guys do it or haven't heard about Bonzo Finance?
Can you break down for us what's the process for the lending? What's the term? Any lockup period,
the APY and all of that good stuff? The APR. Yeah, happy to dive into that. I do want to do a
quick disclaimer before jumping into it. Apologies to have to read through this, but
the views here are personal opinions and not official bonds of finance advice and any
forward-looking statements about bonds of finance and associated projects involve risks and
uncertainties. So, everyone, please pleased your own research, consult a professional
for making any investment decisions. Myself and Bonzo Finance are not liable for
any actions taken based on the info provided. With that, so Bonzo Finance is based on Aave V2 with a few modifications and adaptations to Hedera.
So adapting it to Hedera's EVM.
And the token standard on Hedera utilizes the Hedera token service.
Hedera token service tokens are a standard that basically matches ERC-20.
They're interpreted by the EVM as smart contract addresses.
So from the development perspective, it was all very similar, but just required a few modifications.
And then of course, audits that were performed by Halborn on the entirety of the code base
to ensure security. And that's something that the team has a deep care about with regards
to security and optimizing for risk. And so there's a number of different things that
the team has done around that. In terms of its functionality, so it does function like Aave.
Essentially, you have lending pools that exist on a per asset basis.
Each pool is a single asset pool.
So you can supply, for example, HBAR or USDC or SOS tokens from SOS or SWAP DEX into a pool and earn yield just for supplying it.
You actually don't even have to borrow tokens in order to start earning yield.
They are single asset pools, so they don't experience impermanent loss the way that supplying tokens to a DEX experiences, which is often token pairs.
So from that perspective, in terms of risk, that is kind of eliminated.
There's always smart contract risk related to utilizing DeFi.
But again, mitigations that have been put in place to try and make it as safe as possible.
The way that the rates are determined is based on utilization of the pools.
So, you know, for example, if there's a USDC pool that's applied to that pool, and
that is set based on an independent risk stewards analysis and proposals that are made for the
protocol to set those interest rate models, as well as any other risk parameters within the protocol. And that interest rate model
dictates based on utilization of the pool, what the borrow APY and the supply APY is. So let's say
there's, you know, for example, say 100 USDC supplied to the pool, and 60 USDC is being borrowed that would equate to a 60%
utilization rate and based on the interest rate model that's applied to the pool the 60%
utilization rate is reflected as an APY that borrowers pay for borrowing USDC at that current moment in time, or that suppliers earn for
supplying USDC in that moment in time. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah, Nat, didn't know if you wanted to
respond. It's not all good, but... Yeah, thank you so much for breaking it down. I did have another
question with regards to the other products, but I don't think, I'm not sure if you're ready to dive into that yet. Not sure if any of the other speakers have questions regarding it.
Okay, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, why don't we go to Tropic and then we'll zoom in a little bit after we hit Tropic's question. Appreciate it, Nat. Tropic, how's it going, brother?
I'd love to get you into the conversation a little bit and see what kind of thoughts you have. If you have any, if not, happy to. I also have a couple as well.
Yeah, as someone who is all over the space, you know, in all sorts of different things,
I have to say a little shame to admit that this is actually my first contact with what's
being built over here. So as someone that, you know, is chain agnostic, constantly traveling,
exploring different things, I would say,
what was one of the first things that you would recommend that someone checks out in what you're
building to see, I guess you'd say the value of what's being proposed here?
Yeah, that's a good question. And very cool that you're chain agnostic. I think that's always the
best approach. I've found that people learn so much more when they explore all of the different chains and protocols and
various tools that exist across ecosystems. You know, we try to do that internally. I think that
helps with inspiring the development of new products and features and also just keeps you
more educated and up to date on everything happening. So kudos, kudos for that.
I'd say the most interesting thing to check out is, you know, in the most simple,
in the most simple way of viewing it, lending protocols, I think, can be viewed almost like savings accounts, in a sense. So like in your bank, you have, you know, obviously,
it's a sort of centralized entity entity and they take custody of funds,
whereas this protocol is a non-custodial protocol. But with the bank, you can add funds to a savings
account. Sometimes it's like a money market fund and you earn yield for just depositing funds into
the bank. You know, like right now for USD in a money market fund, I think it's like 4% that you could earn due to Fed rates.
In Bonzo, it's very similar for the lending protocol.
You could view it as almost like a savings account where you can deposit any supported
asset and earn yield that auto compounds and accumulates in real time, and then withdraw
that asset at any time, inclusive of any yield that was
earned and that's kind of like the most sort of simple quick thing a lot of the assets that exist
in the protocol maybe don't have you know maybe they don't have mechanisms within their respective
project or application to be able to earn, you know,
earn staking rewards or things of that nature. And so that kind of offers that capability for
users that are passively holding an asset and they want to be able to earn. There's also
liquidity incentives for certain projects, tokens that are available in the protocol.
tokens that are available in the protocol. And that's sort of demarked with a sparkle icon next
to it. So there's sort of an additional bonus that it can be earned for supplying assets into
the protocol that's available on the dashboard. I think that's like the best foray into sort of
lending protocols in terms of like getting a taste of what it is. And then, you know, once you've supplied assets,
the way the protocol works is it's over collateralized loans,
which means you can borrow up to a certain percentage of value
based on what you supplied.
So if you supply USDC, I think the configuration is you could borrow up
to like 75 or 80% of the value of USDC in the form of other tokens that are supported.
And so, you know, one of the next things that someone could do is check out borrowing and sort of understanding what the how that mechanism works.
And then in addition, there is a points program that is being offered by the protocol today that is running in seasons.
We've completed two seasons so far. Each season is three months.
And we're on the third season now.
And users who earn points, they get two points per dollar supplied every 24 hours for supplying assets, and then eight points for every dollar borrowed every 24 hours.
And there's a leaderboard for those points, so you can go and check out the leaderboard.
This season ends on September 3rd.
You'll be able to claim Bonzo governance tokens as part of participating in that season.
So this point program is definitely something else that's worthy of checking out.
And then finally, there are NFTs related to the project that offer community-centric utility.
Those are available now on the secondary venues like CentX on Hedera.
And those NFTs offer multipliers for points that are earned.
So if you're just holding an NFT in the account that's using the protocol, it'll show that
and you'll automatically earn multipliers based on the
tier of nft that you are holding and quick quick a lot to look at there yeah there's it's a lot
a quick shout out to with regards to centex uh and you know kabila market for the nft ecosystem
on hedera and in particular the Dead Pixels Ghost Club.
NFTs are really having a renaissance right now
with regards to some of the mechanisms that they've created.
I think they're the number five NFT project
across all of Web3 in terms of volumes
based on a few mechanics that they've implemented.
So that's definitely worth checking out as well.
Beautiful.
Very nice.
Yeah, I appreciate that Brady and the tropical questions.
Great questions there as well.
Nat, I wanted to jump back over to you
because I know you had a follow-up.
Yeah, I was just curious about all the upcoming product
that you guys are about to launch.
Not sure if you're
ready to dive into that just yet. Yeah, happy to dive into that. I guess one thing before we dive
into the products coming beyond Bonzo Lend is you mentioned at the beginning a question around what
it is about Hedera that's actually beneficial to the the bonzo protocol and i think it's worth mentioning
um it's worth mentioning a couple of these things so for bonzo lend or any uh you know
decentralized lending protocol those lending protocols have an ecosystem of liquidation bots. So essentially when a loan ends up reaching a liquidation threshold,
like a position becomes unhealthy,
these independently operated liquidation bots come in
and they have to pay off the debt for the position
and they get to claim the collateral that's backing that position.
And this is a process that happens on any other, any other lighting protocol on any
other network, they have these independent bots.
But what we found is unique on Hedera is because the fees on Hedera are low and fixed,
it becomes a more predictable business model for liquidation bots to be able
to know how much it costs to perform a liquidation, which charges transaction fees from the network
because they're performing a number of different transactions to do this. And because the fees are low and fixed, they're actually able to perform liquidations of even the smallest positions in the protocol.
It could cost a liquidation bot $100, $200, $300 worth of ETH in transaction fees just to perform a liquidation on something that might be a position that's only $20.
And so what they'll do is they'll not avoid performing that liquidation because it's not economically viable.
And that results in bad debt for the protocol that accumulates over time, which oftentimes the treasury of the protocol has to cover.
With Hedera, because it's so low in fees and fixed, liquidation bots can liquidate even the smallest of positions very efficiently and effectively, ensuring that the bad debt accumulation doesn't take place. So there has been hundreds of liquidations that have taken place on Bonzo.
And with those, we haven't observed any of the small debt accumulation
that takes place on other protocols.
I thought that was really cool.
And then the other thing is just with those low fixed fees as well,
from the end user perspective, being
able to take out positions that are of
smaller amounts, maybe, you know, certain people, depending on sort of their, you know, current
financial state or regions that they're in, you know, they could supply $10 worth of an asset and
borrow $5. And because the fees are so low and fixed, they have the flexibility to be able to do that without it costing a lot.
So we see it as those things being incredibly strong. And then the final thing is around
fair transaction ordering on Hedera. So on Hedera, it is technically not a blockchain.
However, for many applications, it can be interpreted as a blockchain. So transactions
are handled individually, and they are ordered fairly in the sense that you can't bribe a node
to have your transaction be placed in front of another transaction. And in DeFi on other networks that don't have an operation that's
like this, what you see is front running that takes place. So people trying to jam their
transaction in before a large transaction in DeFi in order to take advantage of the
price differences that may be impacted by the transaction that they know is going to come through.
Can't happen on Hedera.
There's no MEV that takes place or sandwiching.
And we found that to be very beneficial as well,
both for end users as well as the liquidation bot ecosystem.
For the liquidation bot ecosystem in particular,
we covered the small fixed fees as being a benefit to them.
But also, you know, they compete against each other. So liquidation bot operators will try to get in to perform a liquidation faster than another one because there's, you know, profit potential that they could make for doing that.
Oftentimes on other networks, these liquidation bots will try to outbid each other
to get their transaction shoved in before another one.
And that kind of just the incentive model
then just becomes like who can pay the most
to bribe nodes to get in first.
Instead, what this incentive model has created
for these bots is that they now have to compete
not by paying more but by actually
making their technology faster, their stacks faster. And anytime that you can compete in
that aspect of protocols operations to ensure the most efficient liquidations, that's also
going to keep the protocol healthy and predators healthy. So there's a lot of benefits that we've found just based on Hedera and its consensus that it brings to the DeFi ecosystem. And
we did do a blog posting about that if you want to read it. I'll pin that to the top of this
channel as well, but just wanted to dive into that. And then you mentioned new products. So there is a new product that is coming out at the end of September or early October.
It's a vault product, and it ties up into Bonzo Finance's overall mission of becoming
the liquidity layer of Hedera.
What these vaults do is they are yield generating vaults that automatically manage liquidity for users.
So very similar to BFE Finance or Ichi Auto Pools.
What these vaults will do is users can supply liquidity to a vault and the vault will both route the liquidity to other DeFi protocols in the Hedera ecosystem, including Bonzo Lend
sometimes, and then automatically manage the liquidity for various strategies that it wants
to perform. So there's strategies like looping for liquid staking token yield. So between a base asset
and a liquid staking token, it can perform supply and borrow
loops and bonds of lend automatically to basically create leveraged liquid staking yield.
Other strategies are related to the automated management of concentrated liquidity
in Uniswap V3 pools, otherwise on Hedera known as SaucerSwap.
And that can be super complex and intimidating for users,
having to set different ranges for the pools and keep them maintained
and really deeply understanding how that works.
So these volts automatically manage that for them.
They maximize the yield.
And they also benefit the ecosystem in this specific use case because it ensures that
the liquidity in these Uniswap pools, Uniswap-based pools, are effectively concentrated
and managed and allow for trading with minimal slippage. So it's an overall net benefit, I think,
to users, the protocol, and then also just the broader ecosystem in DeFi in general.
Awesome. Nat, over to you.
Thank you, Cain. Brady, with regards to providing liquidity, is there a minimum and is there a lockup period?
liquidity, is there a minimum and is there a lockup period? Yeah, so for both Bonzo Lend
and Bonzo Vaults, there's no minimum that is required to be supplied and there's no lockup
period. So people can supply and withdraw liquidity sort of at their will. With Bonzo
Vaults, there may be certain vaults that require a cool down period. So for example, if it has not harvested rewards for a pool or rebalanced the ranges, it may prevent the user from withdrawing liquidity until one of those rebalancing events takes place.
You know, very similar to Beefy Finance if you've used some vaults on Beefy.
And that usually is very temporary, but it'll cite that it's a quick sort of cool down period.
And it's not on every vault.
It's only on a few.
And it's only in the instances where there hasn't been rebalancing that has taken place recently.
And is there, with regards to the rebalancing, is there a set time or a set date that these things happen?
Like, for example, every quarter, maybe?
Yeah, another really good question. of vaults similar to how bonzo lend has a liquidation bot ecosystem that is operated by
independent developers in the ecosystem bonzo volts has a basically a harvesting function on
these vaults whereby anybody in the ecosystem can run a bot or manually harvest and rebalance the vault and they earn for performing that
action, they earn a small percentage of yield for helping take that action. So they keep the vault
healthy, they keep, you know, the liquidity that's managed balanced, and they also are incentivized
to do that.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much, Brady.
I'll hand it over to Kate.
Yeah, fantastic stuff here.
And love these questions.
And by the way, for anyone who's listening to the show, if you haven't already, please do take a second and follow Brady and Bonzo and everything that they're building over
here.
And also, you know, Nat, if you're deep in the Hedera ecosystem, obviously Nat is pretty
well versed there.
So you're definitely going to want to head over to her show and see what kind of things they're talking about.
And hopefully we'll get tropic into the ecosystem here a little bit as well this first show.
But yeah, and if you're enjoying the conversation, it is recorded.
So if you're in the Hedera ecosystem and haven't already, please do retweet the space bottom right corner, the little purple pill down there.
If you hit that button, it will take you to the space page and you can retweet from there.
You can also leave comments and questions if you guys have any, and we'll try and get to those as well.
And Hedera accounts, I, in the back, log with you, but just again, just shout out to you that co-host invite.
So if you guys do see it, I know X is just terrible today.
But if you guys do hop up, I'd love to have you. If not, it is all good.
So anyways, yeah, I wanted to zoom in a little bit here on sort of like the long term here of Hedera's ecosystem and the DeFi and everything that's going on.
It's still relatively young.
I'm curious the pain points you guys are solving first in regards to, I mean, obviously you brought a few different options here for DeFi.
But I'm curious on like the main pain points you see within DeFi, but then also, you know, zoomed a bit more into Hedera.
And where you kind of see that evolving and where you guys will fit into that and, you know, what position you guys will fit, I guess, if that makes sense.
Yeah. So I'd say, you know, I think overall Hedera is, its DeFi ecosystem is growing very quickly.
There's many protocols that have come online that allow for advanced functionalities. TVL is on a growth trajectory.
Ultimately, liquidity.
You know, when you look at ecosystems that are in sort of their early growth phases,
liquidity ends up being a limiting factor
for a number of different things in DeFi.
So, you know, it's something that is over time being addressed, and it involves obviously the onboarding of institutions and retail users to improve liquidity within the DeFi ecosystem. low liquidity on assets can result in having to set various restrictions on the way in which
and the flexibility that users have on using some of these tools. And it's for good reason. It's for
safety for these protocols. A lot of economic exploits that you see in DeFi ecosystems are
based on sort of taking advantage of various economic aspects of tokens.
If tokens have lower liquidity or fewer venues in which to trade on, you know, it opens up the door to potential manipulations on prices and things of that nature.
Again, there's a number of parameters that are set, for example, on the lending side that allow for the ability to use some of these assets, but limits the potential impact that can be had based on, you know, based on their current status as an asset within the ecosystem, the amount of liquidity they have, the concentration.
system, the amount of liquidity they have, the concentration. So you'll see things like supply
and borrow caps that are set on certain assets, or maybe the loan to value ratio, like the amount
that can be borrowed against a certain asset used as collateral might be a bit lower for certain
assets or higher for others. So ultimately, I see liquidity is just like this overarching thing
that every ecosystem, I think, needs to be conscious of and something that can
kind of always be improved. And then I'd say the other sort of thing that is on its growth
trajectory as well is around bridges. So like being able to migrate liquidity from other networks into the Hedera DeFi ecosystem.
And, you know, we've seen advancements on that front with regards to sort of onboarding and on and off ramps.
So like Hedera Native USDC is available in Binance and Crypto.com.
And we'll likely have other exchanges coming down the line to be able to get access to Hedera native USDC and bring it in.
But additionally, sort of HTS assets or assets in the ecosystem having centralized exchange listings,
that's been on a growth trajectory.
And then, as mentioned before, bridges.
There's Hashport Bridge, which is sort of a default bridge
that's been on Hedera for a while now.
But the network is set up for Layer 0 bridging.
And there's a number of initiatives
that are happening right now to ensure accessibility
of major assets being able to be bridged over to Hedera using Layer 0.
And in particular, if you're familiar with their standards, the OFT standard on Layer 0,
which essentially makes it so that liquidity across networks is shared.
And so, you know, hoping within the next couple months. And then obviously beyond that, to see this
bridging ecosystem really start cranking and accessibility of being able to bring, you know,
not only major assets into Hedera to use within DeFi, but also being able to bring HBAR out of
Hedera and used in an accessible and liquidity pools like Uniswap on other various networks like maybe
base ethereum arbitrum etc just creating greater accessibility of the hbar asset as well and so
we're supporting you know the labs organization is supporting a number of initiatives around
bridging we'll have a bridge that's available within bonzo finance that's based on layer zero
will have a bridge that's available within Bonzo Finance
that's based on layer zero.
And we're working with a number of asset issuers
to try and secure those layer zero OFT contracts
for various assets that are gonna be made available
within the ecosystem.
Also proposals that have been made
in SaucerSwap's governance to be able to instantiate
liquidity pools for wrapped Bitcoin and wrapped Ethereum, again from layer zero. So those have
all passed and are ready to get set up. So it's an exciting time, I think, because it feels like
these, it just feels like it's the early days before you start to see just massive growth that takes place.
Maybe a good analogy is like post FTX Solana prior to it really having the kind of strong recovery that we've seen from them.
So, yeah, just overall exciting time in the Hedera ecosystem and DeFi in particular.
Yeah, just an overall exciting time in the Hedera ecosystem and DeFi in particular. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I want to have those questions and that real quick, just to get some thoughts from the DeFi.
I think it's an interesting conversation here.
I'm just kind of broadening out a little bit onto more Hedera as well.
Nat, I would love to get some of your feedback on things you're seeing in the Hedera DeFi ecosystem that you think could be improved.
Any pain points that you're noticing, things you'd like to see, just things like that.
Yeah, I think Brady hit a lot of those points.
For me personally, as the ecosystem expands,
I expect to see more DeFi projects
and maybe some of the processes,
the onboarding processes and lending processes
a little more fine-tuned.
But besides that, I believe Brady hit the nail on the head with what
he said. With regards to the broader scope, when I first joined Hedera, I remember it was
not a lot of people knew about it because of the marketing towards the institutions. But recently,
we've been seeing a lot of retail investors come in. And I like that Hedera is catering more to that as well
they have stuff in place they have a great marketing team they have how do you call it
there's a hackathon that happened they have rewards all of these amazing things that not
only help secure the network but also help bring in more investors as well we were recently listed
on Robinhood,
which is great because I think it'll bring more eyes and provide more liquidity.
As well as we're making Hashgraph fund with the launch of meme jobs, where it's like a pump
dot fund from Solana, but it's like for Hedera. And a lot of these memes, surprisingly, they're
actually doing very, very well. So Hedera is becoming like this well-rounded place that everyone can come in.
You can come in and build. You can come in and chill. You can come in and have some fun,
trade your meme coins, invest in these DeFi projects, maybe add liquidity to some of the
vaults that Bonzo Finance is going to launch. All of these amazing things. We're really,
really early on in Hedera, and I can't wait to see what happens in the future I'm excited for this H bar all the way
dang all right and traffic I'll throw the similar question to you obviously
not as well versed in Hedera but just from a d5 perspective overall I know you
host a lot of Bitcoin define and you've been around the block for sure in the
crypto arena so I would love to know some of your thoughts on the D fire side
of things just just overall more macro. Yeah, I was just looking at the dashboard right
now and I was looking at some of the rates and supply rates and what have you. And I know I have
one of my friends that just his whole thing is no matter what ecosystem he goes in, the first thing
he goes is try to figure out how he can provide liquidity and make money on that.
Because he is of the thing of the nature that, yeah, it's try to find to try to read charts and what have you.
But if I am wrong, that's one thing with with providing liquidity, just wherever the attention is going.
He knows that whether it goes up or down, as long as there is attention and there is excitement, you know, that's somewhere he needs to be heading.
So, of course, you know, following his advice, that's the first place I went.
I was just looking at some of these pools.
And I was just wondering, as far as like the rates that I'm seeing, if this is correct, like supply APYs, like I'm seeing of ranging between,
I don't know, 0.28 and I think the highest one I see is about four.
Is that correct? Am I in the right place?
No, I see one that says 7.9.
Is that the highest APR for providing liquidity or am I looking at the wrong page?
Yeah, that's accurate.
So with lending protocols and we've received these comments or sort of thoughts or interests before. So there are opportunities with lending protocols to be able to supply assets and earn passive yield. And I think that's important. You know, obviously users want to be able to find these opportunities, especially when you can do it in single asset pools without impermanent loss to be able to earn. The lens in which I like to view lending
protocols though is that they're not optimized in such a way that it's a
let's go seek out the highest yield opportunity to supply my assets to.
It's, yes, there are ways that you earn passive income by utilizing a lending protocol by supplying.
And sometimes based on the current market conditions, there are opportunities whereby
those yields are a lot higher. Oftentimes it's for stablecoin assets when the market is volatile,
but ultimately the lending protocol, I think the best sort of lens in which to view it through is
more about being able to use the supplied funds as collateral for being able to borrow against against to perform more advanced strategies. So while it's called a lending protocol,
and I think the first thing that people think is, okay, I can supply and borrow assets.
How I like to view it is that it's actually, there's a number of strategies that can be
employed with the lending protocol that allow for so much more.
So one of those, for example, and again, not financial advice and and you borrow USDC and you swap USDC for an
asset that you think is going to rise in price.
You do that, wait for it to rise in price, and then swap back the USDC to be able to pay off the loan and keep the profit.
And then the reverse direction with regards to sort of if wanting to participate in a
more of a shorting strategy that takes place.
There's also looping strategies that can be done, and these will be automated by vaults, but the manual strategy for that would be, you know, supplying a liquid staking token to the protocol and then borrowing the base asset and then staking that base asset, resupplying it, resupplying the liquid staking token that you received.
the liquid staking token that you received and you can sort of loop that in a number of different
ways and basically earn leveraged yield on liquid staking tokens and so um yeah well i guess in
summary while i do see it as being uh beneficial for some passive income i don't think it's a kind
of protocol where it's like this thing's here to maximize yield for people who are supplying
um it's more about the utility of how you use it and the strategies that you employ with it.
Vaults, on the other hand, will be all about trying to maximize yield for users
in terms of the automated management of that liquidity
and how it manages it to try and get the user as much yield as it can.
It's really interesting there.
Yeah, it's definitely something to look into with the strategies.
My first experience with liquid staking and trying to actually come up with a strategy
and going in and out of different things is about a year ago.
So I'm by no means an expert on this, and I'm trying to explore it myself. And I
think that's just really interesting that you said there's different ways to go about it. Some people
are just seeking the highest APY, APR, just set it and forget it, walk away and then come back maybe
in a couple months and then collect. But then there's like what you said, going in and out
of tokens, I think is really interesting. And as far as for someone who is coming over let's say from
another ecosystem not really familiar with that is there a a certain starting point or a way an
educational center if you will that you can get up to speed with everything that's going within this
and um so that way they can come up with their own strategies and and come with this stuff because
again you know it is a steep learning, especially if someone's never dealt with liquid staking and all the different things, which I think is becoming more popular, but it's still fairly new.
Yeah, it's a great question. I had a reasonable amount of experience in DeFi and going down the path of really deeply understanding lending protocols in that sort of category and the development of Bonzo based on Aave.
There's so much complexity in all this stuff and trying to really deeply understand it.
Users only have so much time, I think, to be able to dive into a lot of this stuff and so you know to your point
education we see is um one of the most useful initiatives and tools that we can offer the
ecosystem and users and so we put a huge emphasis on creating educational blog postings videos and
other things to try and help users get up to speed in sort of a protocol agnostic way just about the mechanics of some of
these things like lending and so um you know we we did there's a blog post here that i'll share to
the spaces called unlocking defi 2.0 uh the dgen's guide to lending strategies this is a protocol
agnostic uh write-up uh none of it is financial advice in any way whatsoever,
but it does dive into some of the various strategies
that we're seeing users partake in
for DeFi protocols across the industry.
And so, a very good, I guess, starting place
just to sort of get your beak wet
with regards to lending and DeFi in general.
Really cool there.
Just the last question that I have related to, of course, jumping into all of this and looking at this,
on the points board, is there any plans or anything within the community to use these points other than just redeeming it for Bonzo at the end of the season?
Is there any expansion for that, NL claimable for something, or used in other ways?
Any kind of gamification in that regard?
Yeah, good question.
Yeah, good question. So the points system is, you know, at its baseline specific to the Bonzo protocol and sort of at the end of each season, the widespread distribution of its governance token to help further ensure decentralization of the project.
opportunities whereby someone can sort of come in and be able to you know use
those points as maybe a mechanic for their own airdrop you know we've seen
that often we've seen token weighted airdrops that take place based on
certain number of tokens that certain accounts have in their wallets and they
sort of do a distribution curve based on that. You could do the same for points. But right now there's no sort of additional utility per se
for that.
One thing that is interesting about the points, though,
is that you do have those points recorded on Hedera
through a point standard called HCS 20.
So instead of it just being points in a database
where most point systems work,
the points are verifiable and on-chain using Hedera's consensus service.
And so anybody can go and look at on-chain the points that have been distributed to users
and sort of brings like the ethos of decentralization and verifiability and trust to points, which we thought was really unique in terms of some of the, again, expressions of capabilities that the Hedera network offers.
Just super low cost to be able to record these points on Ledger and make them verifiable and timestamped and everything else.
ledger and make them verifiable and timestamped and everything else.
I thought that was cool.
So I thought that was cool.
Really interesting there.
I noticed that that was the last question,
but one last quick one is,
where can I find the developers,
the people that are building really cool things?
Because I think one of the best ways to get a pulse of an ecosystem is to just
be a fly on the wall and see what developers are doing and what they're talking about.
Is there a special hub like an event or something, whether online or IRL, newsletter, anything that
like would help me to plug into what they're doing? Yeah, great question. So for Bonzo Finance
in particular and its ecosystem, there's tons of opportunities to build businesses for the Bonzo Finance ecosystem.
You know, in Aave's ecosystem, we've seen a number of initiatives around like notification
systems that people pay for to get set up to be notified about position health. There's
even games like Aavegachi that have been built for the Ave ecosystem.
And so there's tons of opportunity for the Bonzo ecosystem for developers to jump in and get set up.
And we do have a developer resources section in our documentation at docs.bonzo.finance.
And in there, you'll find data API related to all of the data in the protocol and the
rates and accounts andi related to all the data in the protocol and the rates and accounts and
information related to that but also you'll find information about running a liquidation bot or
using flash loans as one of the product offerings of the protocol and so that's kind of a hub for
developers who want to build for the bonzo ecosystem. For the Hedera ecosystem broadly,
I'd say the Hedera developer Discord
is probably one of the best places to join
and get set up and meet other folks.
Also just Twitter, we see a ton of, or I guess X now,
we see a lot of people, developers,
talking about what they're building
and various innovations on the X timeline.
So if you start following people that are in the Hedera ecosystem or other projects,
you will start to see, because of X's algorithm, start to see other developers in the ecosystem
publishing things.
What I found is everybody in the Hedera ecosystem, from developers to retail users, are very,
very friendly. So they're able to help get people set up within the ecosystem and help them out by,
you know, if they have questions, getting them set up with wallets.
We're just partnering up if they're trying to build something where there's synergies
maybe between them.
So yeah, it's a very friendly community for sure.
Awesome stuff. between them so um yeah it's a very friendly community for sure awesome stuff yeah loving these questions nat i see you've got a hand we'll jump over to you
thank you kate now brady for those that are listening in for the first time we're just
now becoming aware of bonzo finance and heneraera. When it comes to Bonzo Finance,
can you walk us through the token?
What's the supply, how and where to buy?
Sure, I can.
And can you guys hear me still?
Yes, sir, we can.
Perfect, thanks.
Yeah, so Bonzo's native protocol token
is a governance token that allows for the creation of proposals and voting on various proposals within the Bonzo finance ecosystem.
Things like those interest rates or risk parameters or the listing of new assets or various integrations.
And so that is the utility for it. There's also a single-sided
staking mechanism for the Bonzo asset that is also considered part of its utility.
So being able to stake the Bonzo asset for X Bonzo and receive yield based on that mechanism.
And then in addition, the Bonzo asset is able to be supplied as collateral
and borrowed within the Bonzo Finance Protocol, which would constitute additional utility
for the asset. You know, the ability to
The ability to purchase the asset is available on SaucerSwap's exchange.
In no way is this an endorsement of purchasing of any assets within the ecosystem.
But just in terms of sort of utility for it, it's the utility that was outlined before in terms of sort of utility for, you know, it's the utility that was outlined before in terms of purchasing and to be able to partake in that, you know, SaucerSwap acts as a venue for that.
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Brady. I'll hand it back over to Cade.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I wanted to actually, yeah, that's a great question there. It's actually going to be my question. So I appreciate that one, Nat. So, you know, going a bit more onto Hedera and what's being built here, just kind of zooming out here.
year or so has been definitely Bitcoin-led. And then the last couple of months, we've seen
the alt break up a little bit. We've seen the other ecosystems start to get moving and get
some more volume and stuff like that. So I'm curious, even broader than DeFi, what kind of
things you're excited to see on Hedera Brady and what kind of things you hope to see being built
on Hedera, aside from just DeFi, but other reasons. I mean, you guys are here to stay and build in the
DeFi world of things, but you guys are going to run into a whole slew of different companies and cool people building an ecosystem.
So I'd love to get some of your thoughts on this.
Yeah, so I think to start out, just want to give huge kudos to the Hedera Foundation, which is the foundation organization that is independent of the Hedera network that supports growth of the ecosystem
and all the various initiatives.
The last eight months to a year or so,
I think they've done just an amazing job of the focus
that they have on ensuring growth of the native Web3
ecosystem, nailing down the integrations that are needed
to help mature the ecosystem on Hedera.
Things like support for Hedera Native USDC,
again, on Binance and Crypto.com, Chainlink Oracles,
working with bridge providers to support integrations
on bridging, on and off ramps, all the RWA organizations
that have come online.
So Swarm was one of the recent ones
where it's tokenization of like Tesla, Apple, NVIDIA,
et cetera, basically equities that
are available on the network.
Integrations into RWA XYZ, which should be going live soon.
So there's so many things that are happening in such a short amount of time, with a lot
of that being led by the Hedera Foundation, and then obviously, all the great builders
that are in the Hedera ecosystem building some of these things.
So I think it's a culmination that's taking place and has been taking place over the last eight months to a year
that we're going to start to see the returns from all that effort in the form of some incredible products
that are released within the ecosystem and things for users to do and the ability to onboard into the ecosystem
quickly, inexpensively, and efficiently. And it kind of just feels like a
slingshot being wound back. And we're going to kind of see some of the results from that soon.
I know there's a number of other DEXs and institutional plays, perpetuals coming online.
All of that, I think, over the next three to six months that we're going to start to see.
All of that, I think, over the next three to six months that we're going to start to see.
And then like the NFT ecosystem, too.
So I mentioned Dead Pixels Club earlier.
You know, they've used Hedera's technology in a way that is impossible in many cases on other networks.
To be able to have an economic model for NFTs that makes their project more sustainable and way more able to grow.
That mechanism is called foreverments. Essentially what it is, is Hedera has baked in royalties for
NFTs at the network level. So any application wallet, secondary market has to honor royalty fees that are configured
at the NFT level itself. And royalties that are earned by those projects, this project,
Dead Pixels Club, they use that to buy back their NFTs on market and place them into a pack that is resold that uses Hedera's random number generator
to be able to randomly select the NFT that ends up being opened in this pack. So all the packs
are kind of like the same price. And there's a probability
is based on the rarity of the NFT that you'll receive in it reminds me a lot of like Pokemon
cards. And that thing is, you know, they went live at the beginning of this year. And it's
really starting to just crank up and see massive adoption just in the last week or so, increased
floor prices. You know, it's it's these builders that are taking advantage of and realizing some of the functionalities
that are native to Hedera that allow them to do things that they would never be able
to do on other networks and passing that value on to end users in the ecosystem.
And so I just, I think in general, I just want to see more of that more of taking
advantage of some of these like unique things that Hedera has to offer that you can't get on
any other network. Very well said. No, I appreciate that, Brady. And I was going to say,
Nat, be curious to see if you have any thoughts on this as well.
Brady hit all the points again, I was about to say drop the mic, Brady, drop the mic.
That was an amazing take. I mean, as I mentioned before, in my opinion, I really do believe we're
so early on Hedera. A lot of people are just now coming to realize how amazing it is, the things
that they can do in the community, how we're all there for each other. We're constantly supporting
each other. I would like to see going forward, as I mentioned, more catering towards the retail section.
But I think Hedera has that down and they're slowly rolling things out to bring retail on board.
But that's really it.
I think everyone, if you haven't followed the Hedera account, I suggest you guys do so
because they always have new things that they're rolling out, projects that they're funding
with regards to the Hera foundation right um so much so so much in the works so much yet to come
that's why i'm always so bullish on hedera
amazing stuff and um you know tropic i was gonna ask you the same question obviously you and i are
not the experts on hedera so maybe just in general for the crypto ecosystem or if there's anything else you picked up in the conversation. But I would love to throw over to you for a final take here.
Yeah, I would just say that it definitely gave me a lot to research. I mean, this is one of the things that, you know, as I'm looking at newsletters and reading various things, it's hard to filter out in times like this when everyone's screaming this
is the next big one and all this stuff so it's just cool to hear about all the uh the tech and
like the innovation that's actually happening here because i'll be honest like before this i kind of
yeah it's the banking token kind of thing you know so to know that there's a lot being done on the i
guess you would say the the individual side and and retails coming in and developers and all that,
I think was really beneficial for me.
So hopefully the audience really enjoyed it too,
just learning about all these different things.
And there's always something to research in this space.
And I think this is one that I definitely will research.
So I appreciate your time and answering all the questions
and that, of course, your enthusiasm and everything.
So yeah, I will spark the algorithm by,
you know, liking some of your posts, some of the things that you're sharing,
and maybe it will feed me up some of this cool stuff that's being built here.
Amazing, Tropic. Let's go, Tropic. Let's go.
Let's go. Appreciate it, Tropic. And Nat, appreciate you coming through as well. And Brady and Banzo,
shout out to you guys for coming through and giving us a little bit of the Intel's going on on the D5 side of things for Hedera and
Chats is there as well as you guys down there in the audience
Unfortunately, there was some X stuff so couldn't get him on today, but I'm usually they come on a bug and coast with us
so I'm trying put on these to their shows every now and then and
Get a lot of fun a lot of things to learn here and look appreciate from coming through these spaces
Just take a second if you haven't already be sure you're following the speakers up here and And yeah, a lot of fun, a lot of things to learn here. And look, I appreciate everyone coming through to these spaces.
Just take a second if you haven't already.
Be sure you're following the speakers up here.
And if you guys want to find out more, just obviously go to the bottom of the account.
If you want to find out more about Hedera, go to the pin post at the very top of the space.
You can go to their website and check out more.
Otherwise, I think that's a pretty good place to stop here.
It's been an excellent conversation.
Please do retweet the space, by the way, if you haven't already. Bottom right corner, the little purple pill, if you hit that button,
it'll take you to the spaces page.
And you can retweet or quote tweet or tag a friend from there.
And we'll catch you guys all in the next one.
Again, if you have any questions, comments, or concerns,
let us know in the comments down below.
And we'll catch you guys all in the next one.
We have another space in about 30 minutes.
I believe that Daba Network is hosting,
that Wolf will be co-hosting with William, of course,
that he'll be leading the conversation on. And then we'll be back at 4 p.m. Eastern for the Bitcoin space. And I'm probably
going to bring up MSTR and Cancer a little bit just because I think they're pretty fascinating.
And the MSTR conversation is really blowing up on the timeline. Finally, I've been waiting for
that conversation to happen, to be honest. And so I'm very, very curious about that topic. So
guys, there's an endless amount of content here at Wolf. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Take care. Thanks so much, everybody. Thank you.
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