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@hivefest Speaker @brianoflondon of @v4vapp Guest Stars on #HiveSpace
Recorded: Sept. 13, 2023 Duration: 0:55:30Space Recording
Full Transcription
Welcome, welcome, welcome in.
Here we are at Hive Space.
It's a special day.
We are in Season 3, Episode 2, with our guest, Brian of London.
If you will give us a couple of minutes, we'll make sure that we've done a sound check, that
we have mics to everybody that should have one, and we will be here.
Where's the music, though?
I chose that music.
I'm playing that music.
I don't hear anything, so just give me a minute.
Okay, great.
Okay, great.
I think we are doing well.
Shadows, can you do a sound check with me, please?
Uh-oh.
Let's see.
Hang on.
Her co-host invite didn't work.
That's okay.
That's okay.
This is why we do love these spaces so much, is they give us maturity.
I heard that flexibility is a sign of maturity.
All right, let's see if that will work.
And Jennifer is in the room, our other co-host.
We will introduce you both in just a second.
Jennifer, if you can do a sound check with me, that would be lovely.
Shadows, are you there?
Jennifer, are you there?
Well, this is going to be a beautiful room today, but I have to tell you.
Oh, my, this should be interesting if space is even giving me a hard time.
And you're pretty solid on this, but do you, am I there?
Please tell me I exist.
You exist.
Oh, my God.
I was having this dream that I was in Las Vegas for the first time,
and I was really air sick, and I couldn't find my people.
Oh, wait, that happened.
Hi, Jennifer.
Let me make sure that Shadows is in good shape,
and then we will check on Brian of London.
Am I here?
Shadows, how's it going?
Am I here?
You are.
You exist, too.
Perfect.
Oh, right.
So I don't know if I did it right,
because this is the first time that I have tried it,
but I wanted today, with Brian being here,
to be the first day that we have Threadcast on Leo Finance.
So we'll see.
I've given it two goes, and the second go was with Eric.
He was helping me.
So we'll see if that shows up.
We want to be able to do that,
because changes happen with Twitter spaces,
X spaces, where they give us a chat.
They take it away.
They give us a nest.
Nest, they take it away.
But we know, we know,
because of the world of Hive
and having the power to own your stuff,
that if we do a Threadcast for this show,
it will never, ever be taken away.
It will be locked down on the blockchain forever.
Do we have a link to the Threadcast?
We should.
But that's the thing,
is I couldn't get it to come back up for me.
So I'll check on it after intros.
How does that sound?
Okay.
Cool.
Cool.
So, Shadows, while you're here,
introduce yourself to the group.
We have lots of new friends today,
not just friends from Creative Work Hour,
from which they just came,
but friends all across the world,
all across Hive.
I'm sure that most of them already know you
and love your work.
Shadows, just introduce yourself a little
and then, Jennifer, it'll be your turn.
I am a writer, content creator,
been on the blockchain for seven years,
and I am a strong believer in being nicheless and loving it.
My name is Jennifer Navarrete.
I am known as at-e podcaster on Web 2 and Web 3,
and I have been on the blockchain,
specifically the Hive slash legacy chain,
since 2017, which makes five years.
However, I was not active all five of those years.
The last two years has been the most amazing experience,
and it's because of people that are in this room
and folks that are not here yet
or who will listen to the replay
that I have discovered that the community
and the power of the blockchain
is something that we as creators
should absolutely focus on
and put some attention to
and some time into
because it's an investment and not a spend.
That is great, you two.
I'm going to ask all of us,
before I introduce myself and then Brian,
to share out, tweet out, post out this room,
whether you are only on Twitter
or you're on Twitter
and you're over on Hive as well.
If you'll share the link, that would be great.
There are people who really want to be here,
and it's such a funky little animal
that we go around trying to trace the feral thing
to get into the space.
So thank you all so much for being here.
I am your host.
My name is Alessandra White.
I am a futurist,
a founder,
an architectural designer,
a classical clarinetist,
and a voice actor.
I have stumbled,
as they say,
I have failed forward
into Hive.
Not knowing what I was doing,
I put a message in a bottle
out on Twitter
some, well,
year and a half ago.
And the message in the bottle said,
if someone,
anyone,
dear God,
can come and explain
Web 3 to me,
I'll be your friend forever.
And who arrived?
But Shadow's Pub.
And the next week,
Jennifer Navarrete.
And we have not been parted since.
This is our third season,
our second episode.
I want to introduce to you
Brian of London.
Brian,
how are you?
And what should we know about you?
If we were going to post,
hey,
I met Brian of London today.
He's the guy that,
dot,
dot,
dot.
He's the guy.
He's the guy that's been around on Hive
also for about five years,
but got into a sort of a second life
and a renaissance
of my own interest in developing
a few years back.
And now I'm kind of a developer.
I mean,
I was a poster of videos
and writer of blogs
and so on.
But today,
I think I'm best known
for developing stuff.
So that's what I am.
And you're Brian of London.
So tell us the story behind
Brian of London.
The short version of
Brian of London was
I was in America
attending a quite political type event.
And I was pulled out.
I got in.
There was a political panel.
I'll try and make this one short,
but it's fun.
There was a political panel
and I got into a sort of a sparring
with one of the people on the panel.
And it turned out she was a radio host
from L.A.
And she was doing a show later on
in the hotel
to do her talk radio show.
So she said,
come on my show.
We can carry on this debate
on my show.
So I pitch up in the room
and she brings me on.
And I,
this was sort of,
this was early,
before I did any blogging
and kind of before Facebook
and social media in a big way.
And I was talking about something
a bit controversial
back in the UK.
And suddenly at the very last minute,
she says to me,
what should I call you?
And I kind of went,
oh my God,
I can't really go live
with my real name.
So I said,
Brian,
which is my middle name.
And I said,
Brian,
Brian from London.
But she,
she changed it into
Brian of London
and that became my name.
that's how I got
my Brian of London name.
And I stuck with it.
And I,
later on,
I dropped,
you know,
I sort of,
I don't mind my real identity
being linked to Brian
because I left the UK
and I don't work
for the big companies
that I used to.
And,
but Brian of London,
that's my moniker.
And I am,
I am actually a Brian.
My middle name is Brian.
and there's a whole
Monty Python thing
going there,
of course.
You know,
he's not,
he's not the Messiah.
Exactly.
And,
I mean,
the life of Brian,
of course,
is a seminal work
of extraordinary genius.
In particular,
the scene in which
John Cleese's
Centurion
catches Brian,
you know,
and he's,
he's writing,
he's writing graffiti
on the wall
of the,
the temple
in Jerusalem
and he writes
Romani's
Domus
and he gets
a whole Latin lesson
and I went to
an actual school
where you could
actually be beaten
for making the kind
of grammatical errors
that,
that Brian makes
and the Roman
Centurion
then pulls him up.
And this was,
this of course was,
you know,
a year ago
when I wrote on,
I quoted that scene
and I don't know
if I can say it
in Twitter,
I quoted that scene
John Cleese's
character says to
Brian,
now write,
you know,
he instructs him
the correct way
in Latin
to write Romans
Go Home
and then he says,
now write it out
a hundred times
or I'll beep
your bleep off
and that got me
banned from Twitter
for a year
so it all comes
around.
I love this so much,
Brian.
It's such a pleasure
to meet you.
Jennifer has told me
that the first thing
I have to do
at Hive Fest
next week
in Rosarito,
Mexico
is have my photo
made with you
and I'm like,
okay.
But I never,
never can presume
that that's an okay thing.
I was at,
I was representing
the British Institute
of Architects
in Austria
of all places.
Wow,
okay.
A girl with a Texas accent
is in Austria
to represent
the Brit arcs
so I was having
my picture made
at this event
and I turned
to the guy
and I'm like,
is this okay?
He said,
well,
actually,
it's not.
I'm from Transylvania
and my wife,
well,
it would not
be okay.
I think I can.
Yes,
I'm available
to take pictures with.
It's not a problem.
But,
yeah,
you know,
for a long time
I was actually,
for a long time
I was just
the avatar
that you see
on Twitter,
you know,
my cartoon face
and that cartoon face
if you want a story
that wasn't drawn
by AI
or anything
it was drawn
years ago
for me
by a real
human being
a fantastically
talented cartoonist
called
Bosch Faustin
and I actually
sent him
a photo of me
and I said,
I said,
do this
but make me
look like Superman
and I think
he nailed it.
He absolutely
nailed it.
So what I do now,
okay,
because my seniors
are Shadows
and Jennifer
on Hive.
Now,
I'm the baby
of the group
so when we
started this show
it was on a dare.
They are the experts
in my eyes.
They're tall giants
in my eyes.
I am the anti-expert.
I don't know
anything.
I've been on
Hive for a year
and I poke around
and I do it wrong
and people lovingly
take care of me
and say,
it's not really
the way we do that.
And it's absolutely
fine.
I'll give you my
origin story
on Hive then.
I was brought
on to Hive
by a guy
called Andrew
Hamilton
whose handle
is APS
Hamilton,
Apps
Hamilton
because his name
is actually
a ridiculously
long Andrew
Paul
Stuart
Hamilton
and he's
a lawyer
friend of mine
and I was
brought on to
Hive
because
what happened
twofold.
One,
I was banned
from Facebook.
Long and
political story
that I don't
need to get
into,
but I had
helped someone
build a
Facebook group
that grew
to about
1.2 million
followers
and had
extraordinary
engagement.
I mean,
it was a
political,
very political
page in the
UK and it
had greater
engagement than
any of the
leading political
parties in the
Bigger than
the Labour
Party,
Bigger than
the Conservatives.
You know,
when we would
post something,
we would have
hundreds of
likes and
all of that
stuff within
minutes and
the established
politicians just
didn't like that.
Anyway,
that account was
basically targeted
for deletion by
the British
government and
by the British
opposition.
In fact,
they both
wanted it and
one day it was
just taken down
and Facebook
put out a
lying press
release about
my friend
and the
press just
parroted the
lying press
release and
that was it.
And it was
at that point
that I realised
how ephemeral
all this stuff
was.
You know,
Facebook,
you could put
literally years
of work and
money and time
into building
something,
but of course
you'd built
on sand and
they could just
yank it away
from you.
whether it's
for political
reasons or
commercial
reasons,
a lot of
people have
come to realise
this.
And around
that time,
my friend
Andrew,
who lives
here,
he's another
Israeli Jew,
but he's
formerly from
Australia,
he introduced
me to Hive
and he
introduced me
to Hive by
way of this
other thing
that I do,
which perhaps
is worth
talking about
here because I
haven't talked
about this
for ages.
Andrew is
suing Facebook
and Google
or Meta
now and
Google in
Australia for
something they
did in 2018.
In 2018,
both of those
two companies
and a bunch
of others,
including what
was then known
as Twitter,
they all banned
crypto advertising
starting in
January 2018
and Facebook
in particular
declared the
entire crypto
industry to
be frequently
associated with
misleading and
deceptive practices
and Andrew
realized early
in 2018,
you know,
literally a couple
of months after
this ban,
so Facebook
banned it and
then six weeks
later Google
banned almost
all crypto
advertising as
well and
everybody else
did and
Andrew's a
lawyer from
Australia and
he recognized
that there
was a
competition
class action
lawsuit in
this.
They started
working on
He brought
me in just
to make a
video.
Actually,
I sat down
with him and
filmed a
video of him
talking about
this and I
was so
interested in
it, I
wound up
then going
on and
working with
him and
now he
and I
basically
run, he
runs the
case and I
do paralegal
work and
just to bring
up to
speed.
We were
able to
launch the
case during
COVID because
the entire
court system
in Australia
went online
so we
could run
the case
from Australia
with Andrew
sitting in
his apartment
at two
o'clock in
the morning
trying to
explain to
a 62
year old
judge in
Australia
what
blockchain
was and
why Ethereum
mattered and
Bitcoin and
these concepts
of what we
were trying
what Andrew
did manage
to explain
to the
court.
First one
older male
judge and
then he
was replaced
actually with
a younger
woman.
But the
case itself
we had to
explain the
bigger picture
which is what
you see on
Hive which
is there's
a thing
about freedom
here and
forget all
the get
rich quick
schemes.
These are
competing
technologies
that are
competing
directly with
Facebook and
Google to
give people
new ways of
doing things
and that's
the basis
of our
case.
It's not
about the
money.
It's about
they just
try to
crush
something that
they see
as one
day being
competitive
and I'll
stop.
Breathe.
Let me get
this straight.
Let me get
this straight.
Facebook was
saying that
the crypto
space was
a monopoly.
Well no
they weren't
saying that
it was a
monopoly but
they just
universally
banned all
forms of
advertising.
And what
they did was
they wrote
that in
their general
terms and
conditions.
You know
when you go
on Facebook
and you sign
up for an
account and it
says click
here to accept
the terms and
conditions.
they put
this ban
in that
contract
which
is interesting
because Google
then did the
same thing.
They put a
similar ban
in their
contract.
So did
Twitter.
So did
all of
them.
A little
bit told
me that
Facebook
has now
has their
own crypto.
Is that
right?
Well
what's
interesting is
this was
all in
this started
they did
this in
30th of
January
2018 and
immediately
that was
the start
of a
crypto
winter.
I mean
a massive
massive
you know
the 2018
the price
just plummeted
and for
example
Hive had
been growing
hand over
foot in
the run-up
to that
but exactly
at the end
of January
they banned
advertising
and there
was a guy
actually who
was raising
money on
Hive
spending it
on Facebook
and YouTube
ads and he
had to cease
his operation
which had
been pulling
in hundreds
and hundreds
of new
sign-ups a
day and
it literally
was turned
off overnight
but yes
you're right
exactly about
they banned
this stuff
in 2018
and it
turned out
then in
2019
about a
year later
they announced
something called
the Libra
Project
and don't
you know
but the
woman who
led the
Libra
Project
was appointed
to her
role in
early January
2018
just as
Facebook
was taking
steps to
ban the
entire
industry
so yeah
it really
does look
like they
thought you
know what
we'll ban
them all
from advertising
we'll crush
all their
businesses
we'll drop
the prices
and then we'll
move in
in a year's
time
and what
grabs me
about that
and thank
you Eric
for your
help today
what grabs
me about
that
it's like
someone's
interrupting
a conversation
looking at
you and
saying
enough
now wouldn't
that get
a raise
out of
well this
is you
know what
and what
they did
and America's
laws you see
this is what
what's so
genius about
this from
Andrew's
point of
view
Andrew had
worked in
the telephone
company in
Australia at
the time when
it was being
privatized and
but what that
meant was that
the telephone
company was
forced you
know it had
been a
government
monopoly it
owned all
the wires
in the
ground but
it was now
being forced
by legislation
to share
those wires
equitably with
any competitor
that wants to
come along and
compete with
it and so
the politicians
wrote some
great laws
saying how
this should
be done
and which
types of
contracts you
can you
can put in
place and
as soon as
Andrew read
the terms and
conditions that
Facebook and
Google and the
others had
come up with
he knew that
they ran afoul
of these laws
that he had
cut his teeth
10 years
earlier you
know when he
was a junior
lawyer writing
the contracts
for the telephone
company because
he recognized
in the
contracts
exactly those
things which
you should
never say
in contracts
and specifically
Australia bans
if you're
in a
dominant
market position
and you're
selling goods
and services
that are
considered
essential
you're not
allowed to
just arbitrarily
ban an
industry
and we're
making the
case to the
court that
online advertising
for businesses
that exist solely
in cyberspace
is an
essential good
or service
it is
I mean you
know online
advertising is
is a massive
business and
Google and
Facebook together
dominate it
worldwide
what I love
about that is
thinking about
the junior
attorney and
my partner
is in the
room bitter
irony Devin
when he was a
junior attorney
if he had read
such a thing
as the terms
and conditions
he probably
would have
said what
they what
they say
now is
nope
hard pass
we're not
doing that
but we're
we're here
to I'll
reset the
room really
quickly and
then we
will do
what we
celebrate
are you
ready Brian
are you
ready for
that
all right
so if
you are
just tuning
in or
if you
have just
fast forwarded
or something
on your
recording
the invitation
to this
very hive
space
magically
turns into
a recording
link
within two
hours time
of finishing
the show
so that's
kind of a
handy thing
if you ever
see anybody
go oh
man I
missed it
I heard
that Brian
explained why
he's called
Brian of
London
shut
that link
is the
recording
so welcome
into our
space and
we are here
to celebrate
the work
of Brian
of London
he lives
on high
he's an
international
guy he's a
web 2 web
3 guy he
is a
developer now
in addition
to other
things he
is a
renaissance
man and
you have
made a
couple of
things
of note
that have
come out
very
recently
now I
know about
you because
Jennifer
talked about
the value
for value
app so
talk to us
about that
and then
talk to us
about your
new creation
but I'm
going to
hand the
hosting over
to Jennifer
because this
is a special
day to have
you here
Jennifer
let me
interrupt
just for a
moment
I just
put in
the chat
the thread
cast link
that Eric
has provided
thank you
shadows and
thank you
Eric
thank you
thank you
I needed
some help
there we
go it's
a group
effort
well so
I think
for me
where my
relationship
with Brian
of London
comes into
is really
centered around
podcasting
the fact
that he
was on
Hive was
a big
surprise to
because I
was on
Hive but
I'm a
podcaster
and I
learned about
him because
of podcasting
2.0 which
is the
future of
podcasting
the next
iteration
the next
evolution
and then
it turned
out that
one of the
big tools
that is
used in
podcasting
is something
called
pod ping
and Brian
of London
is the one
who created
that and
so for me
to discover
that he
was that
that was
all based
off of
Hive I'm
like wait a
minute my
worlds are
colliding
they're
blending
they're
meshing
together
this is
a beautiful
thing
so yes
I am
very excited
by what
Brian of
London
is doing
he and
I have
done a
few things
together
spoken on
a virtual
stage together
and done
a little
video talking
about this
but this
person who
says I'm
kind of a
developer
kind of a
big deal
because the
things that
he's developing
can impact
every single
one of us
in the best
way possible
Brian is
building tools
for you
and for
me for
us to have
control
for us
to have
ownership
for us
to be
able to
do the
things
so Brian
do you
want to
talk
walk us
through this
the things
that you've
built and
really how
this impacts
us as
individuals
whether we're
podcasters or
podcast listeners
or maybe
want to be
podcasters
plug here
will be
participating
in national
podcast
post month
in November
all right
and I'll
tell you
what I'll
bridge it
from the
court case
what actually
happened was
I was
helping
Andrew
and we
needed some
graphs and
we needed
some data
for the
court case
and we
haven't hired
a law firm
we haven't
got paralegals
it's just him
and me
basically
we're running
the case
shoestring budget
raised a bit
of money
so I was
helping out
with that
and I kind
of wound up
realising I
have to learn
to program
and I learned
to program
when I got
a PhD
in 1997
but I
haven't
touched
much
since
so I
started
programming
for this
for the
court case
writing a
little program
to draw
some graphs
and I
really liked
and I'd
always been
a follower
of this
guy Adam
Curry
and his
show
and he
launched
this whole
thing of
podcasting
which is
all about
well it's
about bringing
podcasting
forward
making some
changes
because Adam
Curry basically
invented
he's the
co-inventor
of podcasting
25 years
ago or so
and he
it has
languished
it never
really got
the development
but what's
beautiful about
podcasting
which marries
so well with
Hyde is that
it's decentralised
it's not
captured by
Google
it's not
captured by
Spotify
those are
they're trying
to muscle in
on it
and it's not
captured by
Apple
but you
still hear
this thing
whenever
anybody says
about their
podcast
if it's a
true podcast
they don't
say find
it on
YouTube
no no
if it's a
real podcast
they say
listen to it
wherever you
get your
podcasts
and podcasting
2.0 is
about making
sure that
that wherever
you get your
podcasts remains
to be as
many places
as possible
so I sort
of shifted to
writing code for
that and
Jennifer's right
I came up
with this
thing called
pod ping
and I
don't want to
go into huge
detail on it
there's some
videos out
there but
it's basically
a notification
system for
new episodes
of podcasts
and you know
whereas if you
post something
on YouTube
YouTube can
tell everybody
with the
YouTube app
that you've
posted something
podcasting is
so diverse
and there are
so many
applications
how do
you inform
all of
them
well the
glue in
the middle
of that
today
and it
has been
for two
years
and it's
been running
flawlessly
for over two
years now
carrying about
18% of all
podcasts
is Hive
every time
someone publishes
a podcast
from a certain
set of podcast
hosts which is
growing
a little signal
goes out on
Hive
and then there
are sort of
lots of apps
and lots
of services
that watch
the Hive
blockchain
specifically
for these
signals that
say this
podcast has
updated
and that
system I
oversee it
but I'll be
honest I don't
actually have to
do very much
to it because
it's been so
reliable
and just so
people on
Hive understand
you don't need
to know how
it really works
or what it
does even
it's very much
a behind the
scenes type
thing but
there is no
system on
earth that
can replace
it that
anybody has
come up
with and
people keep
telling me
well you know
Hive it's
just a shit
coin and
whatever but
the technology
that we have
for this sort
of global
notification system
that I am not
paying to use
directly that
you know I've
got about
seven thousand
I think there's
about seven
thousand dollars
worth of Hive
powered up
which keeps
pod ping
running and
that's it
that's the
investment and
it's it's a
just a truly
miraculous service
I'll stop
I talk too
much
I think one
of the things
that is kind
of this
on this
you're you're
you're quite
modest in my
opinion on
really the
the impact of
what it is that
you're doing
you talked
about 18%
but I'll
tell you a
real quick
example of
how pod
ping saved
the day
I had a
client who
we release
podcasts twice
a week and
they were in
the process of
transitioning from
one web
development team
to another
but in the
meantime that
doesn't impact
me I'm not
doing that
work I'm
posting podcast
episodes twice
a week for
their company
and all of a
sudden I went
to the
site to go
look at the
show notes
because I was
getting ready to
post the video
to YouTube
and I
typically the
audio goes
out first
copy and
paste then I
go to video
later and I
went to the
website and
the last four
episodes were
gone and I
was like oh
no what just
happened here and
they didn't tell
me I knew they
were working on
it but they
didn't say that
oh we're moving
it on this
date you know
we want to
make sure no
they just did
it without
actually backing
anything up from
two weeks the
last two weeks
so I was like
panicking because I
hadn't gone to
Apple podcast to
you know
update it and
all that other
stuff and I
was going there's
no proof other
than me knowing
that they were
out there and I
have some of the
archive but the
episode from that
day I hadn't
gotten yet and I
was like you know
who does have it
even if Apple
podcast doesn't
have it is
fountain and you
know why fountain
has it because
fountain uses pod
ping and sure
enough I went to
fountain and all
of those episodes
were there and I
was like thank you
Brian of London so
I was able to
take a screenshot
and go to the
webcam and go
hey yo this is
missing yeah when
you did the update
you missed it and
even then still
they they're like
they they're like
okay we did it I'm
like you're missing
too well you know
come on now I can
show you you know
beyond fountain I
can of course get
you the exact
location on the
high blockchain where
the pod pings went
out I mean it's
it's not that
difficult I've got
tools and so on to
do this but again
it's so much it's
so behind the
scenes but yet you
know what's
magical and I
guess I haven't
done a good enough
job of explaining
popping but the
point is I don't
have to because most
people should never
know you know it's
app builders and
hosting companies and
so on they're using
it that some of them
don't even know it's
on Hive or what
Hive is but one day
they will and I can
tell you this the
longer it goes on
like this the more
it becomes part of
like it's just part
of the internet
Hive and pod ping
in particular it's a
protocol it's like
email it's it's not
something anybody
owns nobody can shut
it down now that I've
started it off I can't
turn it off now that I
started it there's no
there's no one who can
stop someone else
sending pod pings you
just get a Hive
account download the
software boom you're
way you go it's it's
something I'm really
pleased I'm pleased and
proud of yes I love
it and that's not even
going into the value
for value which me and
my family have used
quite a bit yeah and
that's what Alessandra
was talking about the
value for value app
where you can actually
take your hive or
HPD and convert it to
lightning yeah and buy
things I mean we've
bought pizza I paid
for my phone my oldest
son bought a hundred
dollar gas card I
mean we've done all
kinds of things with
it just because we
can and as an example
of what's possible
because I have a we
have a friend all of
us have a mutual friend
called Keith Keller out
in Australia and he
just gives us such gives
us such a hard time
about crypto and
specifically hive or
crypto in general but
hive just because the
three of us are on
hive and he says but
can I put petrol in my
car and it's like yes
yes you can you can put
dinner on the table you
can pay a bill and you
can put petrol in your
car so the answer is
yes so the value for
value app is great but I
do want to interrupt
here and say that the
key word of the show
is high fest in case
you were waiting for
that the key word of
this show is high fest
one more time the
key word of this show
is high fest as if
that wasn't going to
get said again again
and again but yeah I
mean I can explain
V4V grew out of you
see the other thing
that podcasting 2.0 has
really innovated that
the brand new bit and
and I think the thing
that I'm going to talk
about at high fest
actually is podcasting
extending to music it's
this idea that you
value what you're
listening to you value
what's being sent to
you and you pick a you
pick an amount and you
send that back and what
they've developed with
value for value using the
lightning network is that
you can stream sat small
parts of satoshin back to
the creator while you're
listening and so I started
sort of working with that
and I started seeing the
interface of hive and
this lightning network
now I'm won't go into
the whole detail the
lightning network have
you got your hand up
Alessandra you want to
interrupt me because I go
on forever always
so I have to say would
you just what is the
lightning network that
seems to be very
important thing to
understand okay yes it
is actually lightning is
an outgrowth of
bitcoin now bitcoin is
it is the big daddy
it's the it's the
massive store of value
that underpins almost
all of modern crypto
and we can't get away
from the fact that it's
got the biggest market
cap but the trouble is
it's absolutely
crushingly useless to
try and use it for
anything small it has
this sort of sometimes
10 minutes sometimes
20 minute block times
i.e. your transaction
can take anywhere from
a minute to 20 minutes
at best and and if you
get things wrong with
fees it can take two
hours or two days or
never happen so it's it's
very hard to use it
reliably and so what they
invented was something
called the lightning
network which i won't
go into details it's
essentially a way of
joining putting some
glue between bits and
pieces on bitcoin and
and then you can make
fast and fairly fee
low fee transactions
rapidly and it does
sort of work uh you're
supposed to be able to
run your own node on
the lightning network but
it turns out that's
actually quite hard to
do uh and i don't think
most people should do
this um but it was the
it was it was a
technology picked by
adam curry and dave
jones to implement in
podcasting 2.0 to make
micro payments and it can
do that so its smallest
unit is one satoshi which
is one 100 millionth of a
bitcoin which is less than
point zero zero one of a
hive so it's it's it's a
very small amount and you
can send someone one sat
you can send them one sat
a minute while you're
listening or you can send
them 20 sats or 100 sats
and that's what podcasting
2.0 built was this idea of
you listen and it's not you
pay it's not it's it's a
different way of thinking
than the sort of patreon it's
not paying to listen it's
saying i'm listening and i'm
valuing this i want to show
value back to the creator
and it turns around on this
head on the head the idea
that you pay in advance you
know it's it's the exact
opposite of paywalls and uh
it's it's more of an idea
that you get the thing that
you're interested in the
content whatever it is and
then you say i value this
of the um subscription models
we're starting to burn out on
some on subscription models so
what you've done is the
antidote to that well it very
much is and and the way it's
sort of supposed to work is to
say look i'm going to put
twenty dollars in my
podcasting wallet uh and
that's going to be my twenty
dollars for the month and
whatever i listen to i'll
stream you know maybe i'll
stream five cents a minute so
maybe i'll stream one cent a
minute and whenever the twenty
dollars is gone i'll top it
up and i'll stream some more
but it means whoever i'm
listening to and who i'm
valuing i set i set it and i
and i give it back now i i
originally actually set this
up so that all videos on
three speak can use this
system and and over on
three speak you know we have
such a different over on
three speak and hive we have
such a different model you
know because we are actually
equitably rewarded for content
um it's hard to kind of push
value for value into hive i
think but i don't know i think
of what hive is hive helped me
really cement the what podcasting
was doing with the value for
value model that that adam and
adam curry and john c devora
created through their long
standing podcast um i think
being able to look at the fact
that on hive it isn't just the
creators who are rewarded it's
the curators that are rewarded
and in some cases if i look at
fountain for example they reward
listeners as well as podcasters if
there's any value to be had
right and i think that's the key
it isn't a guarantee of reward
you don't just by breathing you
don't get a reward but if somebody
if you create something of value
or you're curate something that
you find has value there's a war to
be shared in many ways so i kind of
i i want to push back a little
bit i understand where you're
coming from this but i don't
know there's something truly
truly beautiful and magical
happening in this combination of
what hive has to offer as a
blockchain-based social media and
content creation destination and
community and what podcasting 2.0 is
doing for both the podcaster and
the podcast listener and now of
course with the music aspect of it
where musicians are getting
rewarded through satoshis there's a
whole new level of ownership and
reward that's possible when we pull
out the middleman because there
doesn't need to be necessarily a
middleman
exactly right and i'm failing of my
me and my i just haven't had the
time i'm spread too thin to really
push and integrate v4v value i a
tighter way and i know that there's
lots more that could be done and in
fact i am heading in that
direction now because you know the
the v4v.app that you see which is
basically that's what that is is it
links hive and lightning so it makes
it easy to you to pay a lightning
invoice and that's the way lightning
works you pay invoices there are not
you don't have addresses that you send
lightning to you have invoices that
you pay so v4v.app lets you pay
those and jennifer's right there's this
there is a reasonable amount of real
world world stuff like i just shared
today i use uh an e-sim now when i
travel i used to pay my phone company
here like something like 70 dollars
for a roaming plan to go abroad and now
with this e-sim which cost me nine
dollars and five dollar of which five
dollars is actual calls um i paid for
that with lightning it's totally
anonymous uh i paid for it with hive
which got converted to lightning paid
the invoice and suddenly on my phone i
have this e-sim that i'm i used in
cyprus i've used it in in israel a few
times uh and i'll be able to use it in
mexico at hive fest and i paid for that
with lightning and also you know the the
reason i latched onto lightning uh part of
it's failing is that it's really hard for
the individual to run it but it's
something that has been attracting large
scale venture capital investment to build
the kind of services that we'd like to
want to operate but we're not going to
get the vc and and here's the trick just
by linking hive to lightning we get to use
all the investment that these vcs put in
but we're not beholden to the vcs just
because i've written one little app which
one day will be decentralized and other
people can run
yeah by the way folks i have put in the
value for value app inside of the chat of
this space as well as the link to the
proposal that brian of london has on hive
for the dhf fund so if you're somebody on
there and you can support that i highly
encourage it because we would definitely
want to support someone a developer who
is being creative and investing time and
resources and talent into something that's
actually beneficial for us as non-developers
i'm raising my hand as a non-developer so i
really appreciate that so so brian you know
you're you're constantly pushing the
envelope and creating new things um i know
that in order to get the message out you're
doing this you're doing hive space you're
going to go probably talk at hive fest what
are the things that we can do to support
your efforts in in a way that has meaning
and impact because i don't have the talent
and creative chops and knowledge and skill
sets that you do but i'm like cheering you on
i'm like go brian go and so what else can i do
for that
unvoting the proposal is also good that would
help but you know i'll tell you the other
bit that i just added actually was that
it was a screen that's in v for the app the
receive page which is just a way that shops
or merchants can ask you to pay hive at point
of sale um and uh the keychain boys also came
out with something similar at the same time
um but that's fine because that's what we
want we want multiple ways to do the same
thing we don't want centralized we don't want
anybody having to rely on one thing and and
that's i'm i'm driven by this idea of never
building anything that can be stopped that
can be censored that can be blocked by the man
uh it's it really is important we're we've
entered a very dystopian era uh you know
covid was a huge wake-up call but i i had seen
those signs three years earlier being banned from
all sorts of things um so it's very important
that's why i do this stuff actually it's it's for
freedom uh and and freedom doesn't you know
freedom doesn't mean you have to be annoying
or or to do something bad it just it there's
just a huge difference in the creativity and
what humans can accomplish when they are free
and totalitarian systems just never produce
anything interesting their architecture is always
awful and just they lead to misery freedom leads to
human prosperity and and that's you know maybe
that's a bit grandiose but i actually see hive as
having a place in that
so i i when you said that having freedom doesn't
mean being
yeah big time
you're a little digital digitally um i was just gonna say um i think the term
quiet freedom might be applicable here because you can express your freedom and
take action in that way without being brash or needing it to be like in
anybody's face i think we can all take these things and one of the things that i
know that dave um jones talks about a lot in the podcasting 2.0 space is rss
equals freedom and i believe that i've lived it i've been in this space for
i just realized that this month is i'm entering my 19th year of podcasting
that's a lot of freedom folks and it's a wonderful and beautiful thing
well you know yeah i i was i was sort of podcasting in around 2006 i believe uh when
i took over i took over a show that someone else had started uh as the host i think that
was 2006 or even 2005 the end of 2005 so yes um and i and i haven't kept
podcasting but i've sort of switched to the back office and it's only in the last few
years with podcasting 2.0 that we've realized just how unique podcasting is as a technology
look we're doing this here on spaces there's actually no reason and we're we're heading
towards the the territory where you'll be able to do a live show like this with the same
features that twitter is giving us or x um but the the difference here is when you think
of the billions of dollars that twitter was worth and and that went into developing all
these cool toys like us uh like spaces i i i don't see any problem with using them but
ultimately if you can take this put it on an rss feed and host it on your own website uh
you just can't be stopped they cannot take you down they can't erase you uh and and you know
have it you know i was banned from i i permanently banned from facebook i've never gone back on it
um temporary well a one-year ban on from twitter for something really dumb uh you don't own anything
on these platforms whereas now that i'm developing every day on high i know the mathematics of why
i cannot ban anybody from high i cannot stop you from posting now i can choose to ignore you i mean
if you throw anti-semitic crap at me i'll just mute you but that's the tool i need that's all i need i
don't need to know that you are gone i just need to be able to say okay you know what they're boring
i'm not going to pay attention uh and and so you know i became a free speech extremist and hive became
as far as i can see the best tool for that
um so cast garden i think ariel i think is redeveloping their live and then um i think hive
tube is doing something let me think of who else three three speak i i think it's it's not there though
i hear what you're saying it's not coming together but it's i mean i'd like to see i'd like to see vim
jump on the the live podcasting stuff uh i'd like to see someone pick up the music i think we could do
music hosting via parts of the speak network and with the value with the value blocks built in i think
we could do amazing music hosting and and i'm gonna hopefully talk about that at high fest maybe get some
other developers interested because it's too much for me uh you know i i'm doing as much as i can
but uh yeah i'm i'm really looking for more more people to sort of get excited about the same things
i'm excited about and also have the skill set that you have because i'm excited about it but i cannot
help you yeah well there's just lots of stuff to be done so you know i i actually think i could
probably do more on the communication side uh and that's something we should talk about you know
telling people on three speed that all of their channels are also podcasts i don't think i've done
a very good job explaining that yeah they don't understand that they automatically have an rss feed
that gets sent to the pot that is discoverable in the podcast index i think that's a big thing
that people don't know so yeah yeah we totally need to so what what i'm hearing is that you need
your own weekly show because there's too much going on so yeah i think we're that we can help you with
that for sure i at some point you know i realized that the effort to to do my own show i prefer honestly
i like quite like appearing on other people's show and then they have to do the clip art and the
the thumbnails and write the notes and all of that stuff
yeah we're definitely the folks for that for sure awesome awesome okay so high fest coming up and by
the way for those of you who are waiting for the keyword it is high fest um and so that's coming up
you're traveling to rosarita mexico alessandra will be there a whole bunch of folks that we all know
and love on hive will be there um for you this is not your first time at high fest what does high fest
mean for you because this is not just an hour this is not your normal conference or is it
no no no no listen when you work i work with so many people now uh
but it's all remote and so you know the first time i met most of them was was last year in
amsterdam i i joined hive uh i think i kind of got on hive just before the thailand
um high fest but i didn't go to that um and then and then we had two years of covid and i
had to do the virtual reality thing with those awful glasses um and so basically last year in amsterdam
was the first time i uh i saw most of people and i work with these people now uh there's just
something so something so special about meeting people in person um i've never met they call me
dan i've worked with him heaps uh so really looking forward to that mexico and rosarito especially
that side of mexico is a bit of a trek for me uh i have to fly to frankfurt and then frankfurt to
mexico city then mexico city and then that's the other thing is i i hadn't grasped how vast mexico is
because mexico city is in the um southeast and rosarito is all the way in the northwest
uh and it's a it's a big flight that internal flight so yeah i've got 25 or 26 hours of traveling to get
there um plus the nine hour time change so i'm going to be wiped out for a couple of days but
i consider it to be you know i i've put a lot of effort into hive i've had quite a lot of uh support
from the dhf um i it just it just feels that this is my you know it's something i i devote a lot of time
to and it's worth me putting back in and going to high fest meeting the people that's that's i think
it's just a it's both an investment and me returning something back to the community
so what when you talk to people uh fellow developers about this how do you encourage
them to participate in something like this because i had to come up with a whole bunch of real world
examples of like the blockchain is like a mall and the stores are like the dApps and you know just
i've come up with so many creative ways to explain it to folks so that they can have a clue about number
one the similarities between traditional web2 type of activities and of course what you can do
on the blockchain and specifically hive so what are
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
