so great we didn't have him on stage we were talking about him okay yeah so yeah
yeah I talked down on Twitter and he reached some of them but I mean the the
web 3 the web 3 their their NFT projects no has no future future at all I mean
they block 300 I mean we don't know maybe 1,000 people on Twitter on
Discord their Discord already led to a to a drain link so this is our old story I
mean it was like six months ago so they stopped working on the project there is
no utility anymore there is no there is no community there is no stuff and to
London read if you ask me so basically the company so you guys can check my
profile there is that investigation we post seven months ago six months ago so
basically the parent company was pretty in a very bad situation financially and
somebody probably approached them say hey you have this chance what three
motherfucker a fucking retard you can come here and milk them so that's what
happened and these people they were an external web 3 agency just start to do
everything of course the people from the parent company didn't know anything and
no clue on how to do the whole thing they just like went with the flow and
yeah there were like two major people involved one with a background in
crypto scams one with a background in NFT agency was three projects and these
people basically they save the company they they gave them new money and now
these two people are higher long-term medium-term I don't know by the way they
are effectively the members of the web 2 team they just share like picture
together in the last award winning a band they had so yeah that's that's the
story that's what happens I didn't know there had been a
drainer link in the discord yeah so basically because they are totally
ignoring everything that was going on there is like there is just one more to
keep copy pasting the same the same sentence to whoever asked question if you
ask the wrong question you're gonna get banned so I I think as soon as you lose
enough boost you have to if you want to have your own discord custom link you
need to renew it you need to have enough boost so they lost it and
somebody you somebody replace it with their own link using so basically you
know like this car dot GG not GG this car that Momo guru so somebody replace
it with their own fake server inside a server there was a drainer link but if
you go on open see there's still the original link then now is link with with
the drainer so that's that's what happens that's negligence from them well
I appreciate you kind of breaking it down yeah the whole momo guru thing was
just was just not I mean it was one of the most hyped mints I mean it was the
most hyped mint at the time and I know some people made money on it I never
minted or or owned any of the NFTs but it is a shame what ended up happening
and a lot of people around tripped it to zeros so hopefully people can can find
some sort of I don't know hopefully it recovers or something but right now it's
looking like a like a complete total loss so Loki I appreciate you breaking
that down for us thank you yeah that's that's impossible to recover how can you
recover I mean now somebody bought it because the news but I mean you're just
like people they're gonna get wrecked so they're buying your bags and they're
not coming back at all it's even like if they're successfully let's say they're
gonna have a successful web to series but they are not investing in NFT anymore
you have you had the example crapopolis it's a show on Fox they have like free
season on Fox the NFT was launched more than a year ago and as soon as it goes
on Fox is the NFT is still a zero and they even have in rag they're just like
not really focus on community but I mean it's still a legit project so
that's the thing you know I actually am Loki I actually met the guy and I think
I had a drink with him too at a bar for the crop ellipse the crop ellipse dude
or like whoever was like kind of in charge with it behind the scenes and I'm
not gonna lie like I mean they were trying like they were legitimately
trying and I could tell that they wanted to like put it like a really good foot
forward on it but they're just so out of touch with like this is the thing this
isn't it's like it's like if you want to learn to swim but you just jump into the
middle of the ocean first like you're it's gonna be tough you're probably
gonna drown in web 3 is a very wide and deep ocean with a lot of nuances and a
lot of crevices and just places that you can get stuck and I mean I've been here
for a few years and I still feel confused on a daily basis not just from
not even just like technical but there's a lot of cultural things that you just
have to pick up on and it's not just like oh what GM stands for what wag me
stands for it's more so like how do you operate how do you maneuver and do good
business in the space because it's it's really different like yeah I don't know
it's it's really different so anyway they tried their best hopefully they can
bring it back there's I'm very bearish on most projects that have shows but I
think and as you he might change that with with their anime I'm genuinely
pretty excited about that and I wish I held some as you keep assets if I'm
being honest with you but I'm Loki shout out to you please guys give Loki a
follow because he took time out of his day to come to space and break this down
and he writes a ton of threads on on basically every topic under the Sun so
please click his profile give him a follow it takes literally one second now
I do want to Harry I do want to say this because you dropped a comment let me see
if I can find it he said Solana is provably exploitable and is home to the
single most brain dead defy user base in the world what did you buy that I buy
which part the the brain dead like left curve part or the the provably
exploitable part you start with exploitable part yeah yeah so there's
something in in Solana it has to do with like duplicate slots I don't want to
like get too techie but um basically if somebody was in a position of power like
a sort of like an evaluator would be on aetherium and felt like being malicious
they're able to like halt the entire blockchain there's a whole I'll drop a
let's see I'll drop a reply to my reply that has a little link in case you want
to read up on it but yeah I'm not gonna get too into the the technicals there
but essentially like the blockchain is like extremely centralized um there's
there's few validators it's slow as hell all the daps on it have closed
source code for most of them the large ones um and it's just like just I can't
even I don't want to get too into the into the beats here but as far as
trading goes like if you look at the you have like every single token has like
20 holders who can whose tokens are worth more than the LP on these tokens
I'm not really into the the art on Solana I'm sure it's great there's
probably some great artists there and I'm sure that community is cool but when
it comes to actually making an investment like yeah I should have
bought Solana we all should have at nine dollars but um I I didn't because I was
like dude there's no way this blockchain comes back like this is like November
2022 I think when it completely halted by like it literally the blockchain go
like DDoS if you know that means like just literally done but and they didn't
fix it and actually whenever there's something wrong with Solana um they have
to like manually fix it themselves like it's not the consensus is is off like
the blockchain itself is not doesn't serve the role of an actual blockchain
so it's yeah I don't know it's just really centralized and shitty and it's
literally like slower than phantom you know that it's a layer one and phantom
has no like phantom has faster more TPS at faster finality and it's an EVM which
means that good developers can actually write on code that isn't in rust because
I don't know a single person who enjoys writing rust yeah that's all I'd say
that's one I fucking hate Solana okay cool what's your what's your Avax PFP
oh no this is just this PFP I worked for uniCrypt if you are UNCX now I we all
just like have our little graphics guy just makes these these are I guess you
can call them priceless because they're not listed anywhere but yeah I just use
this one because it's a whole company does so is uniCrypt the thing for
locking liquidity yeah yep I don't even know that we do like launch pads and
liquidity locking and token minting and stuff like that yeah you know see how's
the art on Avax Harry oh it's great honestly there I think they're that is
art on Avax on Twitter and they it's cool like throughout the whole or no
it's not at or in Avax they have a different one who had culture on Avax
they changed it but no there's like some really cool game
fi stuff and some art like a lot of gaming on avalanche actually and the art
kind of comes from that NFT wise but I'm not I'm an Avax maxi but you know that's
just me wait Harry so I got this is a DM I just got literally I'm not lying
this time it's they said they said complete BS LMAO this guy has no idea
red triangle and effort close source daps LMAO what is he talking about ask
him what fire dancer is LMAO every dev loves rust red triangle I'm effort yeah
yeah when he was talking I didn't send that DM but it could have come from me
yeah fax me to a red triangle the fact I disagree with your hair is so hard oh my
god okay it's hot take arena bro I'm just saying I mean take doesn't mean
doesn't mean uninformed inaccurate take go read the go read halting this it's
literally academically provable that the entire blockchain can be halted at any
given moment it hasn't done that in like a year and a half and now it's
right answer is the reality they built a they have a external company like you're
you're you're reading like old biblical war at this point like it it's so
outdated it's it's like it's like like outsiders to crypto coming in now and
saying oh but the the NFTs on blockchain are bad for the ecosystem the
trees that's that's what it sounds like now at this point backs go though you've
got the nail on that yeah you're right that's uh that's who I am but no I mean
hey man you guys can enjoy Solana I was mostly retaliating the uh that
comments because I mean it's valid to come up and do that because I don't
think he's dead either but do it with in a legitimate way so that people can come
up and have some respect for you well okay hold on hold on hold on hold on
Harry no I Harry I dropped you a follow Harry I appreciate the hot take I will
say I mean look Solana is not perfect either there are centralized aspects do
I choose are so good but are you addicted to nicotine gum I choose are
so good it's not it's literally not nicotine is some I choose are so good
what is it it's not Nick what is our candy there they're like candy they're
so good okay okay okay okay Harry I appreciate the take I actually do
appreciate the hot takes and anybody that wants to come up and just drop some
some fire I will throw it over to Chaz Chaz you're DMing me you said Harry
doesn't know anything what are you thinking yeah he doesn't anyways look
Lee what web 3 games are you playing right now that is not a hot take I'm
getting to the hot take yeah I just need to answer the question um I had to
unblock Jonah to get on stage it's been a stressful night did you had Jonah
blocked yes for what reason I don't like his face he looks like Malfoy from
bro okay okay he does not like to you he does not look like Malfoy it look
Malfoy's a good-looking individual right like he was he was Draco is bae okay can
we we get this background track I'm not playing any web 3 games right now but I
hope okay that that's what I wanted to hear because next week you're not gonna
believe this but me and Enby we made a game we put our differences aside
you're gonna be the first and be yeah you're gonna be the first to play leap
I'm sending it over you had Jonah blocked but not Enby I love Enby I used
to hate him but I love him now we're collaborators and be and I have unblocked
each other so maybe the unblocking of everyone is starting now yeah one foot
forward to go go so okay well I guess that was your hot take that you and Enby
have a game coming out well we'll talk about it next week I just wanted to let
you know you're gonna be the first maybe like that wasn't means look like
it's gonna be it was more of a chill than a hot take but we'll pick a hot hot
chill we'll accept it for this one appreciate you Chas all right see you
leave thanks no of course thank you okay look we're throwing it over to
Naveen Naveen tell me why I'm wrong about everything that I've ever said in
my entire life leap you're not wrong you're just misinformed my friend just
misinformed no I'm all kidding aside but my hot take is that I think we're
gonna move beyond this like TPS narrative you know I think like there's
you know some of these narratives that are just like you know they they don't
they they kind of don't really at some point they don't really matter like you
know the difference between you know ten thousand TPS and a million TPS
doesn't really like actually matter and I think that it's sort of it's sort of
similar to what we used to do in the in the PC space you know like oh man it's
the megahertz wars and you know like oh my god I'm gonna buy this Intel CPU and
it's got you know four gigahertz versus 3.5 gigahertz and that means it's better
you know like we used to we're kind of already seen this story and I think I
think we're ultimately gonna move past that another hot take is I think that I
think that proof of work over time will be deemed to be a better
foundational consensus mechanism than proof of stake because I think what
people will start to realize is that proof of stake doesn't have a native
distribution model so if someone wants to come into a proof of stake protocol
today regardless of what it is like there are only three ways really to come
in right like you farm an airdrop you buy a bag or you're an early investor
there's really no other way to come in and as token prices get higher and higher
like Solana at $100 that means like to buy one soul you have to pay $100 and if
you're a net new you've never done anything in the industry before like
you're brand new to the industry that's like a high bar that's like a lot of
money you know like you want to buy ten soul it's like a thousand dollars it's
like a lot and for aetherium it's even worse right if you want to buy like you
know a thousand dollars worth of ETH you're getting like less than half of an
ETH and there are people who at the original ETH ICO point you know bought
like a hundred thousand ETH you know like in one single TX you know like it's
it's that that's one thing that I think we're not kind of realizing because
we're kind of can't see the forest from the trees around the core like
distribution challenge like ultimately the way the way I think we need to think
about these things is these are supposed to be internet protocols and internet
protocols are supposed to be highly accessible now what we think about in
our industry is accessibility is permissionlessness we say oh well anyone
can build an app on any of these protocols and that's that's you know
largely true but I think of accessibility I think of accessibility is
sort of a broader concept I think of it as like you want people to be owners in
these networks you want people to be able to secure these networks you want
people to be able to like participate in these networks and I don't mean from like
a bullshit government governance point of view I mean from feeling like they can
own a piece of the network because the more people that feel like they can own
a piece of the network the more people that are gonna be rooting for it
ultimately and you can't really own a piece of Solana really like you can own
the token but if you just own the token and you're not staking the token you're
getting diluted and good luck if you want to actually provide security to the
network like you you need to own like a really really expensive machine and you
know own a boatload of soul and you know good luck if you really want to
participate in like any L2 on ETH because they're all single sequencer and
you can't really participate and the governance stuff doesn't really work
either right it doesn't really mean anything so so in my view I think like
the original vision that we had in this industry for distribution which is you
know Nakamoto consensus which is like super fucking brilliant because if you
think about how like Bitcoin evolved at the very beginning it's like anybody
could post up in mind Bitcoin you didn't need anyone's permission you could
participate in consensus you could participate in the security model you
could actually be like a part of the network and be earning Bitcoin along the
way like that was the genius of Nakamoto consensus and we've strayed so far away
from that you know and obviously you know proof-of-work systems have huge
liabilities you know in terms of performance but you know you can have
like a canonical L2 you can have L2 is built on top of proof-of-work systems
that provide the performance characteristics you know and so I think
that you know and still have like a single token economy you don't need to
have this E thing where you have you know proof-of-stake on top of proof of
stake on top of proof of stake you could have you know a you know high
performance L2 that provides sufficient TPS you know without having to make it
like the headline marketing message you know on top of the proof-of-work system
so I just think that like as an industry I think we got to kind of like think a
little bit outside the box and think beyond our bags and and this is my
statements are not like me fighting any chain like I'm not here to fight anybody
I'm just thinking like macro and big picture thinking like God you know we're
what are we really trying to get to here we just trying to create a world where
you know it becomes the land of the few in terms of people who can actually
participate in these systems and and own a stake in the system like think about
how the web works like if you want to like have a stake in the world wide web
just launch a web page like that's all you got to do and anybody can launch a
web page you can just like load up a fucking you know you can load up a web
server on your laptop you can fucking install Apache or nginx on your laptop
you don't need anyone's permission you need to fucking do anything and then and
then you can launch a web page and someone can just like you don't even
need a domain so we just visit your fucking IP address and and visit your
web page and now you're on the web and it can be indexed by Google or whatever
search engine like that's accessibility like that is the very definition of an
internet protocol so I think we've kind of straight away from the definition of
a proper internet protocol and I think that actually hurts our industry because
it becomes this land of the few the few get rich you know look at like these you
know and again not to knock a theorem at all this is not an Ethereum knock
because a theory and by the way was proof of work a theory and what I think
I think was a misguided decision to move away from proof of work for a theory
honestly you know like remember back in the day anyone could post up with a GPU
and earn Eve you could just post up with a GPU and earn Eve you didn't have to
like own 32 ETH and like all that shit you could just post up it was fucking
amazing and people did it people were hyped about it you know that it was like
a whole there's a whole culture around that that just got like decimated you
know now you've got this weird thing we're like okay you got there's all
these L2s they're basically the same no one really gets to participate in in how
they operate you know they're all single sequencer and and and like now that like
the biggest most successful L2 honestly doesn't really have a lot of users
honestly there just isn't enough actual users there are lots of active wallets
but active wallets doesn't mean active users right like that we all know that
wallets does not equate to users right that's just like factual so that's my
hot take you know and I think that's sort of a hot take that will play out
over some time you know I think it'll take you know it could be like you know
even years but I think people will start to come around to just like okay what
what are we really doing here where you have a very small number of insiders
that are really winning and how do we how do we create systems that are like
more accessible like like the world wide web do you think that well one I
agree with you on on proof of work versus proof of stake and I think a lot
of people probably agree with you on that I actually feel like it's more
centralized now that is proof of stake because if that's that's like factually
true that's factually true I mean absolutely it's more centralized
because people can't come in that are new like how do you how do you
participate how like dude eat at twenty three hundred dollars or whatever and
you need to have thirty-two East to be a you know like your own validator like
holy shit you need to be rich you need to be rich like there's no one here
could like debate that like you need to be rich in order to be a full-stop
validator right you need to be rich in order to be a Solana validator and then
if you rely on another mechanism to stake it for you the companies that own
state is it's there's four yeah yeah very definition of centralization you
right 100% so when you use like a liquid staking protocol you are
delegating your eat to somebody else you aren't actually providing any
security model or consensus to a theory and like at all you're not doing any of
that you're delegating it to another rich player that's way bigger than you
and and hoping and praying that they do the right thing that's what that is
that's what Lido is like full-stop or coinbase staking that's what that is so
I think people people don't realize that like wait what are we doing here we're
not actually contributing to like the decentralization or security of these
systems and you're not really enabling people that are not already in the
universe to win and then when you get to the L2 level it's even worse right even
worse at the L2 level because there's no I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt do you see any
chance that bro I'm down for you to give you the you know what I'm one of my
biggest pet peeves is oh I didn't mean to interrupt yes you did you did do you
literally did it also do you think that do you think the same issue exists with
them I mean obviously anybody can essentially validate the Bitcoin network
the whole thesis is like we want people to be able to validate with the
processing or GPU power equivalency of a Raspberry Pi right so like that's the
whole thing there but you still have the reason one Bitcoin is fucking 40 grand
right so for a lot of yeah yeah yeah so let's let's I mean look I'm not sitting
here saying that Bitcoin is perfect you know I think I think you know you know
you raise a very good point you know so what's happened with Bitcoin obviously is
you know we've had a six that have dominated Bitcoin mining forever now and
a six are expensive a six are very expensive Bitcoin is very expensive and
and Bitcoin mining has largely become an industrialized game you you don't really
have solo miners like the concept of a solo Bitcoin miner is sort of like you
know it's it's already extinct or on its way to extinction you know imminently
effectively right but I think I think there are innovations in proof of stake
like so one of my favorite devs in our industry is Howard Chiu you know Howard
Chiu is a big Monero contributor and he invented a hashing algorithm called
RandomX and RandomX is ASIC resistant and and and and it's really really fucking
cool because it means you can post up with an everyday CPU like your existing
you know laptop see to me this is about again back to accessibility like imagine
a world where you can like literally just post up with your everyday existing
CPU you don't need custom silicon in order to provide like mining and you
can actually get rewards and to me that's really powerful because you could
have someone like what are we gonna do like I want everyone to just close their
eyes and think like you know three to five years in the future like three to
five years in the future are we gonna have many net new participants in like
the the the foundation of this like industry or just gonna be the same
people that are on the stage right now like you know talking about their bags
and you know how rich they got you know during various bull markets and cycles
and and what I what I would love to see and this is just like you know one
random internet trolls opinion but like what I would personally love to see is
I would love to see a world where like someone who just discovers this
technology five years from now can still participate can and not participate as
our exit liquidity like that's not participation that's bullshit like
participate meaning they can actually come in and they can earn tokens too
like how is that gonna happen in a proof-of-stake universe no one has been
able to give me a fucking answer like because there is no answer there is no
answer to that question that's a fucking problem that is a fucking
problem like the way it should work is you should be able to come in five years
from now maybe you're a college kid you have a laptop or whatever it is and you
can come in and you can participate and participate not being like a far caster
user like that's not participation participate meaning like you can earn
tokens too you don't have to spend your parents money to like buy ETH at you know
20k or whatever it is like yes I'm all about everyone's bags going up like yes
please I hope everyone in this room makes generational wealth with whatever
bags that you believe in like I pray and hope for everyone here but I also
believe that man we're it's gonna be better if net new people get to
participate because then they have a stake in the game and then they'll
advocate for the space like at the end of the day what the industry needs is
the industry needs to a become more than just a series of sky casinos right like
and and there's lots of opportunity like beyond just being a sky casino right
and B you need we need more and more and more people to get the religion like we
need to basically be like fucking Mormons here and like be missionaries
for this space okay and the problem we have is that it's it's just hard it's
really hard for a net new person to come in because you're expecting them to be
exit liquidity for somebody any new person who comes into aetherium today
any new person who comes into Solana or any other proof-of-stake protocol today
is someone else's exit liquidity that's just the facts that's the facts because
there's no other way for them to actually participate I think it'd be
much cooler if you could come in with like your existing CPU you learn about
something so someone on this stage tells you about something you're like hey
that's really cool how do I participate in just like building a web page you
could come in and just like build a web page you could come in and just start to
mine with your existing machine whatever that is and earn a trickle of tokens I
think that'd be cool as fuck and I think that's I think we're gonna get back to
that I think that there's gonna be sort of a renaissance and people will start
to go wait that's just a better way that's just my hot take so anything I
think so you you made a comparisons like you know just the internet anybody can
go make a website I think like an equivalent to that I see like you're
talking about anybody should be able to come in and and earn tokens whatever I
think a step further than that and thinking where I think the real barrier
of entry is the cost to deploy so like let's forget that even the network for a
second or being able to validate it I mean if you want to go deploy even on
soul it's not cheap it's like one two like we do this at a hell of a moon all
the time like we're always deploying stuff it's one two three four soul
depending on the complexity of it or how big it is or how many things we have to
do and you might have to test it and read up like it is expensive to deploy
on soul and then it's it's also expensive to deploy on ease it's way more
expensive to deploy on these and then you even go to Bitcoin now and it's with
the inscriptions and ordinals it's insanely expensive so that's so leap you
you are so right I think there's a huge difference between you know okay so how
is something expensive to deploy it's expensive to deploy because first you
have to buy someone else's bag you have to be exit liquidity first and then you
have to spend that money to deploy right like that's that's the cost to me
will be dope as fuck is like someone is a someone is a dev they learn about this
space you know five years in the future or seven years in the future you know
whatever it is you know cuz you don't remember like we have less than fifty
thousand developers in this entire industry right there's like millions and
millions and millions tens of millions of developers on this planet that are
not yet building in this industry right so like to me it would be dope is
someone like learns about their studying computer science or whatever at some
university they learn about this industry and instead of having to buy
someone else's bag and be someone on the stage as exit liquidity they can just
like mine the tokens they need to like deploy they could literally mine them
and and then they can deploy like that would be cool because then they're
contributing to the network they're contributing to the decentralization of
the system they're contributing to like the security model of the system
they're getting rewarded for it and then they can turn around and spend those
tokens to deploy something that they created and like their cost was the
energy and by the way if you're in college your cost was free because most
college kids are not paying for electricity anyway right so like to me
that that is a like far better situation than what we have today where if you're
a developer and you want to deploy in any proof-of-stake systems you need to
first be someone's exit liquidity first you need to be someone's exit liquidity
and then you get to deploy um Nathan um I'm sorry but I was gonna say I'm in
college like I was I mean I knew that was a hot take but yes speechless holy
shit I don't know I don't think you can hear 33 33 I'm gonna I'm gonna drop you
down and bring you back up here okay look we'll go to the hands I actually
don't even think it's that hot of a take I mean I think most people probably
agree with that I mean I throw it over to we haven't talked to Zico let's go to
Zico Zico good to see you again having chatted with you in a bit I think I
actually chatted with you last night but anyway Zico talk to me what do you
think hey look good to see me yeah so Nathan on the point you were making
about people participating on the internet I suppose I forget exactly how
you framed it but it made me think of something I remember hearing a little
while back which is something like the note the amount of people that actually
have their own websites you know their own blogs or whatever and it's like it's
a very small percentage of people I think the number was like 4% or
something like that and I don't know of that 4% how many actually include you
know people like Debs who you know would use a site as their own portfolio
whatever to share what they've worked on I guess just like as far as for a
mainstream audience what do you think the incentive is like for I mean you
went really deep but like what's the incentive for people to want to get
involved in in whether it be Eve Solana or Bitcoin I guess like outside of the
monetary game like what what do you think is the incentive because that's
really that's I mean even right now that's one of the only reasons why so
many of so many of us are here I'm not gonna lie I mean it's one of the reasons
why I'm here I'm not gonna deny that but there has to be a bigger picture to all
of this right and with everything that you said I guess I don't know I'm kind
of not asking a very my question isn't very clear I get that but that on that
point of people are using the internet right like maybe in a decade or two or
more maybe like the people that grew up with it will finally see the value of
actually having their own blog or website as opposed to a social media as
opposed to having an account on the social media platform right but I don't
know what's the incentive for people and and how do you think that applies to
crypto yeah but that's more of like an evolution where like people just went
with the easier option and one with like you know social media accounts right I
mean what do you call people who I guess want to develop other things like
websites and stuff that you know they don't want on like centralized servers
or like uncensorable stuff like they're still not gonna put it on they need to
be able to come to like Bitcoin in that type of thing where I think the V makes
a great point where it's just like I don't know if you're a young developer
is really if it's too costly to deploy on things you're not gonna be able to
get in besides testnet and I guess part of the theory is you know if you do have
a good idea and you develop it on testnet and you can come to the main
net and raise money for it that is true but I mean I do worry about the
centralization a lot of aspects with you know especially these proof state
tokens I mean Bitcoin is definitely better in that respect because you know
anybody could just spin up a full node but you know Ethereum I guess
alternative salon everything it's oh we are decentralized in that but it's just
like you know these centralized staking pools and all that you know I mean we're
still in a very early age and it's just like this can easily get co-opted by bad
actors if um you know it's too centralized let's let's talk about test
nets for a second because it's actually really interesting so in the Ethereum
space for the longest time it was actually really really hard to get
testnet tokens right like there was actually people hoarding tokens which is
kind of like hilarious which is a separate issue and then and that was
really interesting is layer zero actually created a market for testnet
tokens which they got lambasted for like people were like fighting layer
zero super hard because it was it turns out that getting testnet tokens was
actually pretty hard but putting all that aside I mean it's a good point that
you can like build on testnet first and then and then you know ultimately
deploy on mainnet but I still think that like the what what you really want is
again I get back to like the world of the world wide web like I want to build a
web page okay what's what's my cost to register a domain like the cost is
fucking basically nothing it's like nine dollars or whatever it is per year
like to register a domain it's like super fucking cheap and if I want to like
launch my web app you know I think about like you know all all the you know you
know like you know my son is learning how to program you know he's 13 and you
know he wants to just like build a web app or something he can just like fucking
do it you know and I think that's like really really dope that he can do that
and and and again there you know I want to I want to make sure that we're not
cherry-picking because the other side of it is just being able to participate in
the network I think I think the way I my mental model on all this is the minute
someone launches a web page and is committed to that without them even
really thinking about it they are become a part owner in the world wide web like
they have come they've contribute you feel like you've contributed something
to the world wide web and that's like part of the success of the world wide
web that's part of like why it's been so wildly successful it's this is this like
super network of like millions and millions and millions and millions of
people who are all sharing their knowledge in this like magical kind of
like universe and and I think like ultimately in order for these block
chains to really be that successful in terms of becoming a value layer of the
internet you really want millions and millions and millions of people to also
participate and feel like ownership in that way and and I don't think that
buying our bags is enough like I just don't think that that's sufficient you
know I think like what you really want is people to like actually be able to
have a real stake in the game and and that's where like proof-of-work mining
is so powerful because you're contributing the security model you're
contributing to decentralization you're contributing in all these wonderful ways
you're getting paid for it you're earning tokens along the way and and
then if you want to deploy those tokens and develop something you can or not if
you want to just hold a bag or you want to sell them you know use it as income
like whatever your choice is that's your choice and that's beautiful whatever
your choice is and so to me I think it's it's also there's like a psychology here
because the other thing that you have to remember too is that you know people
have limited headspace for things in their lives you know you can only keep
your brain so full with stuff and I think that when someone is mining
something they're contributing to the network and it's top of mind for them I
mean I don't know about you guys but I have so many tokens my fucking wallets
that I don't even remember I don't remember I'm putting aside like
airdrop shit I don't even remember half these tokens like holy fuck like you
know I checked my arbitrum wallet the other day I was like wait what the fuck
is here I don't even know what's here like it's not top of mind you know and
and that's another thing about proof of work that's very powerful is if you're
mining it's it's basically you know if you're if especially your solo mining
with like a PC at in your like dorm or home or whatever like it's top of mind
for you you're you're you're aware there's an intentionality to it and I
think that's another thing we've lost with proof of stake is proof of stake
it's very easy to like unless you're a hardcore trader and really paying
attention it's very easy to just kind of like forget and so I think there's like
many many like moving pieces to this concept of millions of people being us
having a stake in the network and I just don't think buying bags is big enough
it's I don't think it's like big enough in terms of like people's like mental
allocation of space aren't you kind of a you're like a victim of your own
success though with proof of work though because as it inevitably gets bigger it
just becomes less and less accessible I mean that's what happened with eat
that's what happened with Bitcoin yes yes so I mean 100% that's 100% true
that like proof of work systems you know 100% that you know even
if they have a tail emission you know like yes if there's if there's a bit if
there's you know a hundred or ten million people mining a proof of work
system is the amount of token someone's gonna be earning you know like you know
gonna be like a huge number and that that's that's a very good point but what
I would say about that was I would say that and you know what's happened
successfully with Bitcoin is as Bitcoin has received more and more distribution
and more and more mindshare the price of Bitcoin has gone up right like that's
why everyone in the Bitcoin community gets so exciting about the happening
right there's this whole concept around the happening because you know basically
there's there's this connection between the amount of computational power that
someone is contributing to the Bitcoin network and the underlying of value of
Bitcoin right there there's and that's been like sort of a well-worn narrative
and it's a narrative I acknowledge it's a narrative it's purely a narrative but
I think the reason why that narrative makes some sense though is because when
you have lots and lots and lots of people that are committing like real
cost to something like it's it's proof of work like real work they're
contributing real work to something the value of that thing will inevitably go
up because lots and lots of people believe it's valuable like the value of
anything is simply the price someone is willing to pay for it right like that's
the value of anything in the world it doesn't matter what it is and if you
have if you have 10 million people who believe that something is like really
really valuable then it will probably be more valuable than if say a thousand
people think it's valuable like that's not always true that's not always true
I'm not speaking this is like an edict I'm just saying like that's been the
historical narrative with Bitcoin and I think that applies broadly speaking to
proof-of-work systems so yeah a bunch of hands I want to em low has to go because
I'm low has been probably waiting the longest and low what's up oh yeah my
hot take is that these shelter earns have a like law of diminishing returns
like everyone's gonna turn their Twitter's into like shill shit posts
and like ruin their reputations just by like showing everything because like
even if looking at like okay bears their new campaign is very like shill in order
to get those tickets in order to like get the next thing that they have
whatever the portal coin was all about shilling like there are so many things
that are just literally about like you need to retweet tweet in the morning
tweet in the night like I don't know if you look at a page like they have a
hundred thousand retweets and ten thousand likes or twenty thousand likes
like that spotted it as hell and like they probably did one of these like
shill to earn or something like that like it's not it's not like natural
engagement it's very inorganic your Schultz to earn the next biggest
protocol I was trying not to laugh when he said that lead like this whole time
I was like why are you always in concert hall with an orchestra okay look we can
read some questions for Naveen like before we move on to something else like
well I think we all do yeah all right this is what we're gonna do
shelter is chill to speak that is the name of the game my question my question
yeah you're muted um shill to speak that is the new protocol that we are we're
using here it's built on the latest EBM SVM Monero Solana near protocol look
show speak click that button in the bottom right hand corner like comment
retweet if I don't see five million fucking retweets on your account you
will not ever speak and I will also ban you from the space look these are the
rules that Naveen DM to me he said Lee we got to really put a got a crack down
here on these freeloaders look we're going over to go-go go-go talk to me
what's going on what do you think I think well maybe less a question more of
an observation and and prediction you know I don't know that we're gonna see
a Renaissance like Naveen is is hoping for because we've had so much kind of
terrible volatility in the space when it comes to like see like centralized
exchanges coming in and other people putting putting their bags in the hands
of other actors whatever the case may be and those things just crashing like
2017 and closer and closer you get Luna and Tara and I think everybody's focus
has switched away from wanting to be on blockchain for blockchain's sake and
just now everything is about how does this relate back to my fee and my bags
and when can I when can I stable out and everyone's really really always
thinking about when they can get their bags safely out so no one's really
thinking about like the conversation is always about oh when is the value of
ETH going back up the value of Solano going up it's done a 10x the value of
bitcoins going up it's not about the actual token itself and it hasn't been
for a long time or like the value of the block space itself except as it relates
to hey this can earn you this much as it relates to fiat and that's what kind of
dismays me because we're not we're not back in that time where people are just
plugging into mine and get the token and think okay this is this is actually
gonna be an alternative cryptocurrency where we can break away from the US
dollar or whatever dollar you're dealing with whether you're in Canada or your
Europe South America it's always how does it relate back to my Fiat so I can
escape and once like one day finally break away from all of this these are
the conversations I'm surrounded by day in and day out yeah that mentality has
to change and like the people building layer twos and layer threes are not
really when I examine them they're not really doing it as a way to innovate the
the actual technology that we're using but it's also simply to like make money
it's it's not to help people enter the space but it's another way for a
company to make money off the chain oh yeah so go go like you bring up some
really really good points what I would say is I'd say the psychology you're
describing I think applies to like the the people on crypto Twitter who you
know that are that are sort of like already here I don't think that applies
necessarily to to everybody number one number two I think that there are still
people with ideology in this space and I think they're and and I'm speaking like
when I speak about this sort of like Renaissance I speak I'm speaking about
sort of people's like really deep feelings like you're right that
everyone has a profit motive I'm not here to debate that like and again I'm
not my conversation is not to flood anyone's backs at all like if you're
holding your tokens I hope they fuck in like a thousand X for you like honestly
like I really really do whatever they are whatever tokens it is like I believe
that everyone everyone should everyone should make generational wealth with
whatever the things that they have conviction in what I'm trying to say is
yeah what I'm trying to say is that like the purpose of these systems like so the
the underlying purpose of these systems today is it's become a game of
speculation and that's what you're calling out you're saying Naveen look
how how how do we escape the fact that these systems are like a hundred percent
about speculation today and if it's all about speculation why the fuck is
anyone gonna care about underlying ideology and like feature of money and
escaping fiat and like all these other things like why the fuck is anyone
gonna care about that if it's solely about maybe my Solana bag go from $100
could make my Solana token go from $100 to $500 because then I can buy a new car
or whatever the fuck it is right like and I'm completely with you on that but
I think the way I would respond to you is I'd say that it turns out that of
like a properly constructed value layer of the internet actually does have like
a lot more potential use cases than straight-up speculation and and the
moment that you know those use cases are uncovered I can give specific examples
if it's helpful then I think like people's psychologies will shift and
you'll have different types of people come into the industry like right now
there's basically like effectively one type of person especially on crypto
Twitter there's effectively one type of person that person is someone who's
coming in and on some dimension they're speculating now there's a huge
difference between day trading on charts and like someone who's investing in a
crypto punk because they believe that the floor of crypto punk is gonna go up
to a million dollars of the course of like the midterm or long term right
those are two different types of personalities but it's the same
personality in a way because it ultimately is still comes back to some
form of speculation and so I think you're right as what you're saying is
true if the only use case for the systems is speculation I just happen to
believe that there there are other use cases for programmable money and as those
use cases emerge then you will have different types of people come in the
industry and and then then what I'm saying about the Renaissance starts to
make a lot more sense I just think both these things have always been in the
industry I mean the Lambo meme is like years and years old you know there are
people who came in and care about decentralization and those principles
or whatever and there are people who always wanted money and a lot of
crossover between the two I'm very ideologically pure on all of this stuff
but I'll fucking trade for a bag any day I have a take in developers in the like
half an hour ago we were talking about developers and I try to talk about it I
was trying to enroll myself in programming school right and they have
this new topic about blockchain right and the first I wanted to say I haven't
been here in web 3 since since like the years since November 22 the point is
that I was enrolling myself in school writing coding school and they say hey
we have this new program we have blockchain program and NFTs and whatever
they are teaching stuff about a year ago they're teaching stuff about a year
ago and a half they are behind like this world like web 3 is a world that is
beginning like is moving is moving forward every day and if you're not here
it's impossible that you keep up and develop something new like new people
that are coming here web 3 like today 2024 like like it is hard because this
world is growing and growing and growing every day like somebody needs to
like do a history book like how we do an earth like a history book because it's
not it is it is really hard if you're like coming back after a break if you're
coming back like new you just have to keep up and if you're gonna be exit
liquidity there's extra liquidity that's how it is but um yeah like it is for new
people is gonna be really tough well no one's gonna care about the new people
and like the wasteland that's gonna be a later turn like yo I got some shit I
would have asked of being like we like keep it in lock yeah my bad guys I'll
keep it um okay let's go through the hands and let's keep it quick and you
know concise we can give everybody a chance I wonder Emily has not spoken yet
so we'll go to her first Emily what's up hey nice to see you guys nice to be
back Naveen I love what you were saying about you know I think that what you
were touching on was creating creationism in psychology tends to tie
people more to things like it's a sense of ownership that's beyond ownership
it's kind of like you know you have a kid like and you buy a car like which
one are you more attached to right like something that you create is gonna I
mean that's probably a bad analogy but maybe it's a good one um but you know
things that you create you're definitely going to be more invested in and I think
that if that can be the sort of motive in the space then people will be a lot
more tied to it on a personal personal plane and I think that would be a really
positive thing that being said this whole space is built on a financial
instrument or many financial instruments so this whole space is predicated by
greed in a sense not that everybody's greedy but I mean greed is part of the
human brain in some sorts and ways so it's something that like we all have to
like realize and so you know we have to kind of bypass that and try to get try
to get to the place where we're all about this creationism and tie ourselves
we don't yeah yes Emily really fast like we we don't have to like I'm not I'm not
anti-greed I'm not anti people making a bag at all I think that you know at the
end of the day the thing about this way people who hold a lot of ease would get
a lot richer if more people decide to buy eat right that's why everyone's so
excited about the ETF for example right everyone's so excited about the ETF you
know who owns Eve because the idea is that like there should be lots more
people who want to buy if they can just allocate their 401k is to eat or whatever
the fuck it is what I'm saying is I'm saying what I'm saying to you is I'm
saying a system that anyone can mine like post up with their CPU and mine
even if they're getting a relatively small number of tokens like that that
the fact that there's more people that care about it that means there's more
people who are advocating for it there's more people who are marketing it
there's more people who are developing for it there's more people who are like
want it to win and them and look you're an artist you are an artist you get this
better than anybody else you know like the more people that are coming to your
shows and seeing your incredible art and your you know your incredible
performance and then they leave the show and they go holy fuck I just saw this
incredible show and it changed my fucking life and I heard this song that
like changed my life and and and now like I want to tell everyone about it and
you know I'm gonna share it like I'm gonna shill it so everyone adds it to
their fucking playlist that's how artists become huge and you know that
better than anyone else so like I'm not saying that like you know people don't
want to get rich I there's no debate here that people want to get rich like
I'm not an idiot like I know that's like the primary reason everyone's here is
and that's totally cool but I actually think people make way the fuck bigger
bags the more people that are out there shilling the thing like you know when I
was working for Lincoln Park that was one of the biggest things you know that
was like one of the biggest lessons for me like coming into the music industry
like that was one of the biggest lessons was like holy shit you know like the more
people that hear one step closer the more people that hear it and fall in
love with that song like the bigger Lincoln Park gets the bigger they get
the more merch they sell the more tickets they sell the bigger the
machine gets the cooler it becomes to be a fan of Lincoln Park the cooler is to
wear a t-shirt that says Lincoln Park on it because someone's gonna stop you on
the side of the road and go oh my god do you love Lincoln Park too I fucking
love Lincoln Park and now you made a friend right like that's the thing is
like you know there's many different dimensions of wealth like we want
everyone in the world to be like talking about crypto and excited about crypto
and like motivated by crypto and yet we've created a system that is highly
insular in its very nature and and what I'm what I'm advocating for is like
think about wealth is more than just money think about wealth is what I just
described because then it actually creates more financial wealth too does
that kind of make sense no I was totally actually agreeing with you I don't know
where I went off course to prompt you to for a discourse like that but I mean I
totally agree with like everything you've said I was just kind of like
bringing it back to I think that the creative process can make that sort of
adoption curve like happen faster I mean we literally saw it happen during the
bull run because art came in on NFTs and that literally started all this shit
that we're doing right now so like you know I think that that that was a big
adoption curve right like everybody came in and start doing this and it was art
and like it was it was people were tied to people are tied to things emotionally
that's what you basically just said right like with the Lincoln Park stuff
emotions like tether you to stuff so if you take the emotion out of it everything
starts to wither so like I think that what you're saying is that that you know
we need to have like more of that in the space and not so much more of the the
greed sort of thing like I know people want to make money and they will make
money but like but sometimes to make money you don't need to focus on making
money you need to mote yeah yeah exactly like yeah so what we're saying the same
thing and we're aligned like the deeper the emotional connection is to something
like ultimately the more successful the thing is so if you have so basically what
you're saying which is 100% true and complete and I couldn't agree more is
the more emotional connection more people have to a thing the more successful
that thing ultimately is and that is exactly right so by by someone being able
to like mine and participate in consensus and own a stake in the
network and you know like all of that they they inevitably end up with a
deeper emotional connection then if they're just purely holding a bag to
trade on fucking uniswap or whatever the fuck it is and get in and out of a token
like you know the level of conviction is deeper the and and that's by the way
what part of the reason why Bitcoin has been so successful is because there's
and there's so many people out there that have that level of religious zeal
that is analogous to someone who's a superfan of an artist now I came up
through the Bitcoin rooms in clubhouse and like with all of the maxis I was
just on the phone with one like just a couple of minutes before I jumped in the
room but like and I understand that passion I mean these people were like I
mean it was like Bible thumping over there it was it's crazy you know and I
understand why it's like that because I understand you know I read the Bitcoin
white paper I read like the Bitcoin standard I read like Bitcoin hard money
you can't fuck with I've read like all these books about Bitcoin I I understand
the stuff I understand why they're so passionate about and them being that
passionate back then made me that passionate like I was like literally in
clubhouse rooms handing out PDFs of the Bitcoin standard I kid you not I was
onboarding people to Bitcoin doing that like before I did NFTs and stuff like
that and then I started shitcoining but like no that's another story but like
but you know and now I'm here but like but you know I think that that's that's
really good my my question I wanted to ask you and sorry for the like long
rant leap but like my question I wanted my question I quickly wanted to ask you
is like this is the problem I have with onboarding and it happens in the music
industry so I know that it's happening probably here as well is that you have
a psychology outside of this world of crypto that we all live in that is quite
different financially than what we have here so even if you onboard those people
they're gonna bring that mindset in here so how do you bring them into this and
change their mindset at the same time and grow at the same time like how do
you scale like that properly or is there a way to scale like that properly yeah I
you mean you muted yourself yeah I couldn't hear you I'm sorry can you hear
me now so sorry what I'm trying to say is the answer to your question is
actually connected to what you were saying about like your own actions in
like the clubhouse rooms you know for Bitcoin because basically like human
humans all exist within trusted networks right like like if you and I
were best friends IRL you know if we were best friends in real life and I
came to you and I said hey Emily I just discovered this new thing it's called
you know like waffle coin and waffle coin is really really special and here's
the reasons why waffle coin is special and and you can participate in waffle
coin you can just like dude Emily I know you've got like your your laptop you can
just like load this thing up and you can earn some waffle coins yourself and I
dude I've been like mining waffle coins for six months it's really dope as fuck
the community is hot and awesome and fun and like I think you would fit in with
waffle coins like I think I think there's like a thing about just the
peer-to-peer nature of that of that communication and that's ultimately how
these things spread it's no different again than the musician example like you
know like when I when I heard square hammer by ghost for the very first time
you know I was introduced you know to square hammer by ghost by a friend of
mine who's like you know in the music business and like you gotta listen to
Tobias Tobias is like the fucking goat and you know like it's incredible and
it's melodic and it's Nordic and it's awesome as fuck and and I listened to
square hammer and I was like dude I fuck with this I fucking love this and it
became my thing and it became my thing too right like I own square hammer just
as much as that person owns square hammer now because I'm a fan of fucking
ghost you know so I think that's the answer to your question okay that makes
sense wait did ghost do something on web 3 no I wish they would though we're
going out with priest in April we're touring with priests which are the
members from ghost BC so that'll be fun I have to leave like 20 minutes do
people say melodic rock I gotta leave I gotta ask Naveen some questions can I
go guys I asked some questions I got some serious things to ask them if that's
possible all right I absolutely fell in love with you after what you laid down
there man oh my god okay so I am very curious your thoughts on I'm like fully
believe in rendering the Renaissance on chain I'm very curious about your
thoughts on tools or box vision and render network and having any
individual be able to use their GPU to earn tokens on chain with either
rendering other people's art so you're connected with it you're into it you're
interested you love it you feel like you're part of it eventually you can
literally be connected on chain as the GPU that helps make that art as well
inferencing and machine learning on render networks well I care less about
that than the art of course but like that everyone's getting really excited
about that and it's making it pump but like I am just so excited about the
rendering the Renaissance and the power of connected and decentralized compute
and GPU and spatial group but like I just want to talk about that non-stop
you're yeah I just I just want to say I fell in love with you and everything you said
yeah so so I think that distributed computing when something is like truly
embarrassingly distributable and a good example of that can certainly be
rendering I think that's like a really really cool concept so I I'm not gonna
sit here and say I'm like an expert on render network specifically or anything
else that is you know purporting to offer essentially like distributed like
incentivized distributed computing using sort of like crypto rails but the
general concept totally applies right like the fact that you're on the stage
speaking passionately you know about this idea of like oh wow anybody can like
let's render the world anybody can like post a job or whatever to render
network and like someone's gonna you know someone who has spare GPU cycles is
gonna like render that thing and and then yeah I get compensated earned tokens
like 100% dude like 100% like you know yeah yeah dude like I think like oh yeah
yeah yeah so I think I think that is an analogous example to the proof of work
thing like yeah at the end of the day what you're basically saying which I
completely agree with it's like well what's the work that someone's doing it's
the if the work that someone's doing is rendering a project for somebody yeah
versus like versus like hashing you know like solving some like you know sort of
like complicated math problem and and therefore you know helping to secure a
network like I think I think that those can be analogous concepts you know and
again I'm not like super into render network or any of these specific things
but like I think it's a similar psychology because if someone is
contributing in that way then they are an active participant in the network and
that really is the in my opinion the fucking biggest challenge for proof of
stake is like you just don't really have enough people who are like actually
active contributors or participants in the networks does that make sense
totally great oh no I totally agree yeah no yeah I just think we're very aligned
in the thinking and I totally agree with everything you've said I just like
really wanted to get your thoughts on yeah incentivize systems like that like
are you familiar power ledger at all too you know I'm not but DM me I'd love to
learn I'm all I'm here to learn oh I'm gonna go off on you then and decentralized
solar energy oh my gosh oh my gosh yeah dude look lots of people building
really cool shit and you know I think it just again it just comes down to you how
how much of an emotional connection are we creating for people and how much of
this concept of an ownership in the network are we actually creating and
and that's just something I think we've lost like broadly speaking you know that
that's the opportunity maybe solar yeah deep yeah so basically anybody with
excess solar power it's Australian projects makes more sense in places like
Australia that I'm circulating I have a background in solar will you do yes yes
I will yeah okay I'm I'm I'm a mega fan of the project so yes I will I can talk
um okay done look leap leap dip daddy and um I go rotation people thanks for
letting me go guys I appreciate it maybe if you if you're yeah I can go real quick
because I do get a hop in a few but what's everybody great convo so far
probably a little less on the technical side but just just a thought that
happened today and I was like this is such a hot take and it's been on top of
my mind the more and more I think about it and I talked to more founders and I
talked to more investors but it's fascinating that I think we have a huge
issue in the industry around early investors investing my hottest take
lately has been like we should just get rid of vesting and have a hundred percent
unlock of all tokens right at TJE we're seeing a lot of founders struggle a lot
of companies and projects struggle with this like you know 12 to 36 month sell
pressure of people just selling every you know every month they get a little
bit of unlock and I think and I think this is two-sided so don't be like oh
this guy just wants to be able to like invest and just dump write a TG and get
you know to 3x but I think it's also unlike founders not to let like cheats
invest right like these people that just want to get out I think it's even more
fascinating that like we have like less of in like a hyper hyper technical
industry that allows us to you know track and have reputation and like have
all this stuff like equally like very easily visible we're like time and time
again having these issues of investors getting in and then basically just like
every tranche is like unloading on on the newcomers and I think it's having
serious serious issues within the industry and I never thought about just
getting rid of like vesting until somebody like and I were having a
conversation around it and just kind of laid out that you know the wrong
investors with that mechanic just provide like this long-term sell
pressure yeah weird take not really it's not it's not a weird take at all I mean
what you're describing so first of all the whole concept of a TGE is a concept
that only exists effectively in like a proof-of-stake universe right like that
that's not a concept that exists in a proof-of-work universe you have the
concept of a Genesis block right and and and you have this concept of an emission
curve over time of tokens and so when you have a TGE in other words a dude or
a gal with a laptop hitting a fucking button and generating tokens because
that's universally how that happens right like that's like the only way that
happens is a TGE then then what you're describing is like a hundred percent
true because you have this like a misalignment of interest of insiders
whether they be investors whether they be exchanges whether they be whoever the
insider is essentially dumping on retail like on a non-stop basis which is
exactly what you're talking about and and you know that the challenge
ultimately is when something is like universally liquid from day one and
there is no you know unlocks whatever it is part of the reason why their lockups
and I'll just speak about it from a US context is some of it has to do with
like securities law you know like the whole concept of a 12-month lockup
yeah and and and and all that but but putting all that aside like the what
you're describing is is it is absolutely a cancer like it's 100% a fucking cancer
in this industry like no debate like we can completely agree there but I think a
lot of the thinking still comes down to like classic proof-of-stake thinking
right like that's yeah this is all back to your original conversation like skin
the game what is how we change from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake like you
know not nothing like considered even like the culture of like a mentality of
the space but like really that is like a mechanism to deter what we're describing
that's exactly right because because it's proof of work like you have to oh
you want tokens like yeah you can buy from another miner you know but you
like you know especially a system where the vast majority of the tokens are
straight-up fucking mind like the best way for you to do just to mine yourself
right and then and then and by the way when you mind there's no lockup there's
no the tokens are liquid instantly like you can just fucking do whatever you
want you can cheat them if you want like right out the gate that's on you and and
that's part of the power of the system you did the work and you were paid for
the work so I think there's you know you're 100% right that there's this like
kind of fucked-up psychology and fucked-up situation with like all the
insiders whether they be KOLs or VCs or whatever buying a bunch of tokens for
like you know fractions of a penny and then straight-up like fucking turbo
dumping on retail you know on centralized exchanges and the centralized
exchanges making all the money you know on the trading fees like you know that
there's there's undoubtedly something fucked up about that and that's that's
the world we live in right now 100% no I mean that's just the centralized
exchange cabal essentially at that point like that's that's what they live
and breathe by yeah and everyone and I think most people kind of like assume
this but it's it's true like you know exchanges are also getting tokens you
know at like very low prices in various ways you know like the exchanges are not
dumb they're they're they're in a business it's a business for them and
you know I respect that I respect that it's a business and but I think a lot of
it is you know again these are like one of the core challenges like core
psychology challenges with like you know proof-of-stake systems like broadly
speaking totally cool cool convo thanks for the other time all right yeah I had
to step away from my computer for a few minutes I appreciate you guys holding it
down welcome to space everybody appreciate you all for popping out we'll
just reset it and get back into it if you want to come up on stage click that
yeah it's Frank on stick what happened while I was gone you're welcome I hoped
appreciate you go-go if you're enjoying anything about this conversation we're
just talking about you leave by to come up here and defend the boy it was wild
well Frank I'm gonna introduce you to the newest protocol it's called shill to
speak you will not be speaking unless you retweet the space click that button
in the bottom right hand corner like comment retweet shill to speak it's the
newest in the meta protocols on the EVM look I don't know bad brother if you
want to take it away here I don't know where where we were at or who was
speaking is it this fucking we're going to the hands red triangle MF or Harry
when are you gonna take that out of your bio what's going on yeah dude come on
man I I gotta keep it there but but I know I do everybody's been saying some
great stuff um even before you left now but yeah I just wanted to say sorry
about all this Lana Fudd you know it's the newer blockchain want to bring that
back up really quick you know I don't think Anatoly is gonna rub me I can just
be an eth maxi sometimes so my bad on all that but also go-go I know you might
hate me for this Lana Fudd but um about crypto not being all about like
financial gains and stuff you're making like great points but my question is
like if you're gonna have blockchain applications outside of financial gains
how can you make because the whole point is somewhat I guess the
centralization and like pseudo anonymity and transparency but how can you kind of
ensure the like I guess the centralization of a system where there's
no financial gain to be had I guess you can say I think but yeah I don't think
you heard me earlier I'm not against people making money we we do need to be
making money it's just the like some of the ethos here is tilted in the
direction where some of the well a large number of the companies and many
individuals just reflect back to their fiat rather than the value of the token
itself just the token you know like why like the essential question why
blockchain you know rather than just how does this reflect back to fiat might
the value of my fiat and when can I stable out so you know yeah okay I get
it now gotcha okay cool yeah I just wanted to see what you're saying there
but um I do have to go leap thank you for having me up I'll be at eat Denver I
saw you'd be there so if you want to if you want to meet up shoot me a DM and
yeah please please would love to I'll be in Paris well so there's gonna be a lot
of traveling appreciate you Harry Frank I want to I haven't talked to you and I
guess I saw you last week but I kind of want to hear your take on the Jupiter
airdrop like I'm just interested in and kind of what you're thinking here and
then obviously they announced the thing with if you vote through the LFG launch
pad you can get allocation of the tokens I mean are they just doubling down on
this basically being a casino like which is fine but I feel like they they know
exactly what people want and they're giving it to them I mean what's your
take fun fact Jupiter is investors in in us back in the fucking day before they
were cool so I'm a big big fan of their team and you're gonna hear zero slander
from me I'm uh I'm like Max Bullish on Jupiter in the long term I think meow
clearly is just a breakout I don't know star of the year and I think they're
gonna keep finding creative ways to do what they do best so yeah looking forward
to I know there's obviously like a lot of fun or whatever it is anytime
anytime something gets this big but to me I mean the product of Jupiter itself
is probably one of the best you know for like protocols in the fucking entire
crypto ecosystem and so I'm just I don't know I'm looking forward to what they do
next so what's up with them like people are saying like they pulled 250 million
dollars out basically they will first week it was kind of like a like a public
sale but kind of disguised as an airdrop like do you have any no clue I
mean the only thing I really yeah I think I read something like that but I
don't know too much truthfully I got my airdrop I'm hyped I didn't pay for the
airdrop I just used Jupiter and so I I don't know well I mean look I used
yeah I definitely got I use kind of crazy like I mean it was the biggest
airdrop I've ever gotten in my life how much Frank how much huh how much what
was it how many or what was the airdrop it was a good chunk of point I mean we
were dude been on Solana for a minute it's a it was a little it was like it
was a good chunk man it was kind of crazy all right all right no I mean look
I like Jupiter as a product a lot I mean just even just like this I say this all
the time I feel like I'm preaching to the choir but the native DCA in the
platform is sick that is a fucking game changer for me because you can just
scale out of positions easily you can scale in easily you don't move the chart
one way or another it's it's sick you would think it would stop people from
just dumping for $4 profit but you know they still do it API is even crazier I
mean we've been I think our projects are used in Jupiter back in like October
November of 2021 because what it would allow us to do is whenever we earn like
royalties or whatever you just auto swap it with their API in the background and
so you can kind of you imagine you can spend any cryptocurrency and then have
it audit if you have soul but you need to spend like chunky or whatever you
know it's like you can use your soul and spend it in chunky or any other token
kind of automatically and it can just happen in the background which is what
you'd imagine you know the future crypto already looks like but these guys
have just been ahead of the curve for so long it's kind of surreal these last few
months seeing Jupiter become like the biggest thing in crypto because I think
anyone that uses it back in the day would just be would just say yeah this
is like an incredible product it feels like the future and now it just feels
like everyone's catching up to it but I don't know man I think they're pretty
incredible I wonder what's gonna happen on the other L ones and else who's
coming out this year if they're gonna have like a Jupiter clone or if Jupiter
is gonna expand but right now it's just I don't know it's one of the best
products in crypto so I agree also I completely forgot because you told me
that in another space a while ago where you guys were just using Jupiter to
auto swap basically everything and I can't even imagine how many fucking
points you guys racked up on that but what do you think about the the launch
pad itself I think most people are in agreement that the the swap is incredible
in terms of launch you get a Jupiter airdrop I did I mean it wasn't huge but
a couple grand yeah cuz I don't know I saw this stat floating around we're like
so a lot of people bought dust and and got on Solana for the first time for
Uless backlash in 2022 and so I think if you just did that pasta was on our team
he's literally that was the only transaction he had made on Solana was
like buying 335 dust for the Uless mint and he got like what is that 3200 I
think Jupiter points so that was kind of cool to see I was like hyped on that so
anyone that did the Uless got got at least 3200 points cuz I asked him like
have you used that wall for anything else he's like no literally just one
transaction and it was Jupiter and he was swapping soul to dust back in the
day and so that yeah that was my little fun interaction there Wow I didn't even
think about I was wondering some of my wallets were qualified and I just didn't
even know what I had done on them but okay in terms of the launch pad though
like because we were even talking about this in person just kind of trimming the
fat getting down to what people like I mean people want to launch coins and
they wanted I mean they want an easy way to do it and the launch pad allows
them to do it I mean what's your take on that yeah I'm interested because even
yeah I think me out said like don't ask me about utility utility is like mid
curve you know late stage crypto fans and so I'm curious how much it's gonna
play with the token itself or the liquidity pool again to me I think most
people's thesis on Jupiter lands on well Solana is probably gonna rip therefore
Jupiter is probably gonna rip and I think that's a pretty good thesis I
don't know I got I just do a lot of people kind of maybe maybe mid curving
some of the market cap stuff I think it's gonna do well in the long term even
like this whole 10% every year I wonder if there's gonna be like extra points or
extra allocation that people that held their you know Jupiter from this year
all the way to next year it just seems like this is the kind of DJN team that
would do stuff like that I have no idea they're pretty locked down on it but I
don't know I think these guys are so degenerate that they're they're gonna
keep thinking of based things along the way is that what this really all bears
down to you though like it's just that and someone said this to me the other
day Frank and it has hit home they said specula like basically they said
gambling is so important because it secures the network like gambling
secures the network and it's the number one app right of crypto I mean it's
funny because if you use something like stake.com even which is just straight
straight gambling if you think about what it means to like deposit into state
so what happens is if you deposit into stake you know you get back state cash
SC is the currency that they show on the interface and I think about like you go
on Coinbase you buy it you deposit it into your metamask there's this level of
like or phantom now and there's this level of like lock-in that you have and
then what do you spend it on well you spend it on things that can help you get
more you know tokens and so maybe like a more nihilistic view on it but I think
accurate a vast majority if not all of crypto is essentially that game you buy
tokens and then you spend those tokens on more tokens and hope to get more
tokens is that what it's just like is everything just gonna be points and
airdrop and like is this just where the direction things are going because I
mean last cycle it was mostly utility based we're decentralized last cycle you
said like defi farming and now you have points farming and if you think about it
it's just like this is the evolution I know I've joke with you about it but
it's like this year we're also gonna see the the rise of what I'm calling like
meme chains and the concept of a meme chain is okay so all right I know I've
been on spaces in Ohio but I definitely thinking you know all the time just
watching what's going on so you know first cycle you had after defi you have
like meme coins okay so it's all coins that is meme coins and this cycle
then you're a meme chains which are basically coins that can make more coins
so you know like imagine if you know Shiba Inu was a chain that could make
you know thousands of other more coins on top of it and now you have bridging
infrastructure that's way better people are gonna be rotating liquidity
constantly I think the simplest way to think about what's about to happen over
these next eight ten months my guess right I'm just a bozo is you actually
don't have that many new people in the space but the rotation game is on
because overall interest rates are going down but across the board and so you
overall is that people are rotating even harder and harder now and so I think the
rotation Delta between chains is gonna be pretty big and people are gonna be
down to ape into you know whatever the new chain is with whatever the new
quote-unquote ecosystem tokens are and the new NFTs are and so I think people's
willingness and behavior to explore new ecosystems the barrier has gone down
dramatically it's almost non-existent and if tomorrow insert you know dollar
sign come a new blockchain the come chain comes out and there's like a bunch
of hot meme coins on there you know and then all your favorite influencers are
posting about it like I guess I think because the audience is ultimately the
same I think they're gonna be bigger rotations you know to all the new new
stuff yeah ticker cum is insane I don't know what you've been on that is I think
it's taken on I've been I mean come rocket did very well last cycle yeah
what about come rocket to bad brother come on fuck well now they have like
come to I saw this thing that I don't know if you saw today Frank but pork is
a Pepe fork by Paulie and it flipped Pepe hit like a went from like a three
million dollar market cap to 400 million in just a couple days like it it's just
bizarre I mean yeah the number the numbers are ridiculous but anyway shout
out to the people who made money there I don't know what's up to Frank yeah
Frank I'm a rule for myself this year which is like no dopamine until we do
the thing yeah but I don't know man excited to talk about other people yeah
everyone's always like what about the gods Frank how are you no but that's my
point that's why I said that I was like that's probably a way better idea right
that's like so cool yeah I think it's ultimately like I think the space has
changed pretty you know a good amount this year and I think that our strategy
last year is gonna look very different from our strategy this year um and yeah
I don't know I'm excited but I've just kind of I've kind of like decided to not
comfort people in this moment where you know people are DMing me like bro Frank
is this a slow rug are we going to zero um obviously like I'm still here you
guys can't get rid of me but yeah I don't know I'm just not gonna cover people or be like
apologetic I'm just excited to do some wild shit again and break the fucking
internet so how big is the mustache right now because I kind of fucked up on
shaving like it was so I'll grow it back it doesn't take that long but yeah
that's why you're not gonna see my face until I get it back it's bad for the
brand you know let's go break is 2024 just this music in the background dude
Rex you're always like is the classical music that bad bro it's just noise like
we don't even hear a classical sounds like you're in the LA Phil harmonics
right behind you and they're just throwing their instruments at the wall
like that every time you unmute your mic is just I can't hear anything you know
anyway what do you think is blast is gonna be a meme chain I mean that's a
great example of my my thesis here so if this term catches on please remember
that happened in the leave space and then there's been too many moments sleep
where I predicted the fucking future on your space and then everyone just
tweeting about it like it's obvious I get no credit we need the fucking we
need the fucking listen to earn or what was it a shill to shill to listen or a
shill to speak yeah because at least then there'll be a fucking blockchain
record of it but yeah that's of course the exact perfect example of this where
look the barrier to make these L twos has gone down dramatically it's a lot
easier and so what's gonna happen is obviously why would you invest in a why
would you invest in a coin when you can invest in an L1 or an L2 you know it's
like the market cap potentials are higher people are more down a bridge I
just think this is like the logical path and then here's the thing is like every
new L1 what's gonna happen there's gonna be the Uniswap of insert blockchain name
there's gonna be the you know there's gonna be the DEX the NFT marketplace
there's gonna be all the kind of classic infrastructure plays that are gonna have
higher deltas in the coin itself and so yeah like I just expect people to be
bridging a lot this year I don't know Frank did you call it or did Vitalik
call it in his blog bro I called the Vitalik was gonna start blogging again
leave you know what I'm talking about Frank I was here and I was hitting on
ETH and literally two days before that I was like bro Vitalik's not gonna let
ETH down he's coming back I know he's about to hit the blogs again and then
literally two days later he went on like a fucking tweeting spree um yeah I
don't know he's been he's been pretty active on on Farcaster and no if I hear
about Farcaster one more time from you why is everyone telling me you don't know about
frame I didn't even invest in Farcaster all I saw were posts about some
degenerate mint on it I didn't get it okay hold up what about this honey on
Farcaster leap you're you're shunning Joe Farcaster is the reason what like
Farcaster represents the difference between people that understand and love
the technology and speculators not like a dick but it is a totally different
world that's actually and the way that Naveen like through shade at Farcaster
earlier had me laughing quietly to myself like so why okay but why would I
use any social media that has it doesn't it doesn't matter like like
forget the forget the social media component like whether you're gonna use
it or not because there's no distribution there anything like that
like what Farcaster represents is a is a crypto native protocol that is open that
is made for anyone to build on top of it's like think about it as like a new
AWS for social meat for social media it's so much more than warpcast which is
the client that everyone's building stuff on it's like the first actually
use decentralized social network period like it's like lens is pretty cool too
but the network effects of Farcaster are so much more impressive and like there
is a reason why everyone's talking about it and it's like a totally different
universe than some of the stuff that's going on on Twitter it's like way more
theoretical and awesome it tonight because it's everything he actually likes
to talk about it's it's on there so look you thought you were the shit but
you aren't even the Farcaster anyway I just wow we are no no that didn't that
didn't yeah maybe forecasters not the place for you man I don't know I look
I'm theoretical and intellectual I'm like a anyway
bro are you under water like I think he's under the CMF or a little mermaid
like I can't I look I'm a spiritual is better than it was I can't even do this
anymore okay anyway okay so here's the fuck it we got we're in the hot take
arena this has been too soft for too long and if these are dead agree or
disagree I did agree until I saw something tonight and now I'm now I'm
getting a little bit excited was it Frank no sorry Frank I got excited when I
saw him on stage you know ordinal MF first look digital artifact I can't even
describe anything without spending three thousand dollars how is that supposed to
be I was any I was supposed to be mass adopted sounds like a brokey no no oh
my okay Rex I swear to God you better get out of that fucking fish tank that
you're in okay okay I'm not the fish tank okay what the fuck was the noises
in the background bro okay can we have like a real conversation here people are
trading shit coins like their life depends on it nobody wants to buy NFTs
they don't give a fuck about the art beanie with Frank did you listen to the
beanie one-on-one I did the other night he was on stage and I we needed a Frank
verse beanie debate that would be great bro you didn't even realize hunters
right here you could have asked them about being is how does hunter have
anything to do with beanie I asked him hunter what's the involvement what's
going on why he's wearing a beanie well no what happened hunter I honestly I
don't know what curious here's talking about what what happened with the sorry
I was just away from the choppers like I heard my name and then coming back to
this wait you were on the stage anyway wait so we were talking about beanie and
Chris said that you knew a lot about Jesus Christ what wait cuz I did a I did
a one-on-one response and that was the first wait so what can someone fill me
in I don't understand what like what is blue what's going on bro basically they
got taken for a ride man okay hunter tell me what's tell me the story what's
up yeah I mean loot was a I guess you could call it like a meme of loot which
was essentially if I don't know if people remember what loot was but it was
essentially a project that was literally just words to text as an NFT and
basically using those words and the metadata from that to basically serve as
like the foundation for anything else that could be built off of it was it was
an interesting idea I think the way that we approached it was like this is
actually like so absurd like what is even more absurd version of this look
like which ended up being blue which was like taking the most like radical and
like end of spectrum like memes and kind of like over the line kind of like
commentary and just like throwing it on NFT and saying like all right this is
like foundation to gaming and building other projects but at the end of the day
like it was just a a freemen baseless like pointless kind of thing to do that
we thought was funny commentary on on the moment and I think you know things
looking back at it got very far out of hand of like this is a freemen and just
go do whatever with it to there being like exceptional it's like an
overseeding expectations for like what the project would do and and you know
some of the members involved etc you know I held no I don't hold anything
against anything that like happened I just think that like things got like
very very far away from like the original intentions of like what the
project were you know yeah and I think a lot of people have like pressed me I
think in the in the recent weeks since like Beanie came back and like asked me
like what are my thoughts on him etc like I I don't have like I'm not a
person who has like I don't hate people I don't have anything against people like
I think Beanie's a incredibly no matter what you think about his past or what
his allegations are whatever like he's incredibly smart he knows economics he
knows the the markets he knows the industry pretty much better than anybody
else and you know I'm glad that I was able to do a tropo and G phone can tell
him like it was a fun project but yeah this is obviously like with with his
return site that's like resurfaced and and people talked about what did he do
on the project or whatever like the controversial part was that there was a
somebody loot has it a token that was launched decided officially with their
project the whole controversy with blue was that somebody and and this is still
something I like internally like everybody has no idea and like me and
trope and the other people like still to this day do not know who did it there's
you know you can you can come up with your own theories etc but somebody
launched a token called be gold which was like blue token and then Beanie went
on to say like that he was gonna integrate it into everything he does and
everything and you know the speculation ran rampant and then immediately when
you have people buying a token or buying stuff that you know somebody involved
for a project is saying like hey this is you know something we're gonna do stuff
with there are expectations to do stuff with that and that I think really put a
like hard put everybody in a hard position of like okay like we didn't do
this now like this was supposed to be like a meme project now there's like
expectations out there yeah that I think that was like the ultimate like the
issue I think I don't still don't view the original project of like blue as
anything that was bad I think it was fun I think was entertaining we we
dropped an incredible comic series with with pixel vault helping behind the
scenes on that we had like we had so much planned for it before I think
things got like really toxic and out of place and the community basically wanted
to just make a like community owned project I mean we had like I think like
a whole a whole like three seasons of a comics and lore and all these other
like interactive things planned and I'm personally sadly not everything played
out the way it should have played out but yeah do you I appreciate the
breakdown on it did you at least make money I did did anybody make money on it
yeah I mean I made money on it right like it wasn't it wasn't just like we
dropped time for free and walked away like there were royalties that we made
on it and I would see like though like we did spend money on with those
royalties to make the comic and do stuff with it but and then they like there
wasn't like a feet like there wasn't like a tangible like we're building a
marketplace or building doing merge like there wasn't like a product to it it was
a hey like people are literally selling images with words on them as NFTs and
like at the time remember this loot was trading for like 10 20th something
ridiculous right like that can I can I just give loot a little bit of credit
for what it was which is that it wasn't like the the founder and I forgot his
name he's in a group chat of mine he's a he's a really really very smart guy
incredibly smart guy and and and the idea was composable rarity and it just happened
to take off because his circle of people also happened to be other cool
developers who also happen to be crypto whales and I'm in one particular group
chat with a bunch of my own investors right and a bunch of folks and like it
was the topic of conversation for a constant entire 48 hours before the price
went crazy and I think the reason why it went so crazy was just because of the
quote-unquote you know smart people network effects variable which is like
how clubhouse blew up right how like all these things blow up because the
concept was pretty unique it was unique right when out of control I think we
could all agree that like it went out like I owned a bunch of loot like that I
paid zero like barely any I don't even remember if I think I didn't make the
mint because it was a freemen it was a freemen but then I think I bought a like
point whatever and I was just like excited about it because everyone in my
group chat was excited about it and the concept made sense but then it got out
of hand right and like it wasn't sure founding team's fault what I would say
is like when you fork something that gets out of hand your intention is
inevitably like okay let's take advantage of the uppity which mind you
is not a bad thing I don't think it's a bad thing there was another thing that
wasn't blue that was called n it was basically like a numeric version of
loot and I bought a bunch of that and then that exploded I felt really bad
because like yeah there I mean there are what there's like like loot maps
there was I mean there's like so many different like branches off of that
because the barrier to entry was so low like you didn't even need to make art
anymore you could just fucking put some shit on a black thing and expect people
to buy it and that was I think peak absurdity for sure just wanted to throw
in like the intention of loot was not the result of I don't want to take
anything away from loot I think I think actually of anything we should be
looking back at loot within like you know here's some NFT history like for
everybody and I know not everybody's been around since like the early days
but like I think if you go back to that day we were in sort of like what we're
in now which is like this like very like it's like a wearing meta and when loot
dropped a lot of people looked at and said holy shit like somebody actually
sat down and thought of something unique and actually came up with something new
and everybody was I mean everybody really was like recognizing that in the
moment so it was useful got me in the NFTs honestly my room really yes my
roommate minted like for Luke's when Dom posted the tweet and I remember just
like a day after it was up and then Vitalik posted about it I remember this
so visually like Vitalik posted about it and one of his blogs and then it went to
like 18 ETH and my roommate at the time was just flexing on me really hard of
how he kind of made my entire salary times two in like a in like a day and I
was a Bitcoin maxi at the time and that was the first time I was just like damn
this NFT thing is super interesting or I was like let me check this NFT thing out
and then like I think it was I think that was the tipping point for me but a
week before that he minted a squiggle because he went to like this Venice art
thing or whatever he's like yo you want to come with me to this Venice art like
thing it should be cool I'm like bro no that sounds lame as fuck oh bro we
wouldn't met there that's I bet dude I mean you probably met my roommate at the
time his name is Kieran he's like six six and so he was hard to miss but uh but
then he came back and he showed me this pamphlet of like squiggles and I remember
just making fun of him I'm like bro it's literally a fucking squiggle this is the
dumbest thing I've ever seen and then he showed me his open sea of like bro I
got an offer on it like 10 ETH um I was like kind of clown I was honest he's
clowning him and then then loot happened and then he was just like telling me
about loot right when it happened probably could have minted one he was
like it was he was very active at like two monitors all this stuff um and then
after a loose order to go crazy I was like holy shit like this NFT thing is
super interesting like we gotta teach me and that's actually what started my
rabbit hole no joke fucking Luke wait I love Frank I fucking love that dude I
didn't know your origin story that's that's amazing also for what it's worth
like the the one who cannot be named is also in this group chat and like that's
why like he did the post later but like he was talking about it in this group
chat and that's like why I thought it was like someone interesting I didn't
even really understand at the time because I was like busy doing music
shit but yeah like that's that's totally why it blew up is like basically when
Vital co-sign something people at least I don't think people like I guess some
people blindly buy it but like I think he genuinely only talks about stuff that
he's really fascinated by and he was also like not the biggest art NFT like
advocate for a while like he wasn't I think it's like sort of like he says a
lot of shit right like I read his blog I'm like lucky to be in the chat with
him and that's like what made it blow up quite literally is him and folks were
just like talking about it for 48 hours in this group chat yeah yeah it was like
the first time you mentioned like an NFT in specific this is still pretty early
in like the grand scheme of things of NFTs um so yeah that was like a fucking
crazy moment because literally imagine like me sitting there in our shitty
apartment cloud in my boy like oh dude what the fuck is this is literally just
words on like a with a black text and then Vitalik fucking buterin makes a
whole blog posted out on the next day oh you can imagine I was down horrendous so
I was happy you know what everyone like holy shit it was crazy yeah you know
what everyone a goal that is not talking about stony you insane so the same group
chat now you know everyone's talking about in the same group chat fucking
Farcaster so sorry sorry for having me interrupt you I was just saying like
just saying oh shit wait why are people DMing me say they're gonna sweep blue
you guys are fucking deejans okay don't sweep shit don't even look at it I just
know your DMS are like crickets man like just no one liner of like my DMS are
going crazy I was like who is it down there who is it down there this DMing
leap the propaganda is crazy no no my dear there's somebody in my DMS anyway
shout out to beanie and shout out to you hunter appreciate you breaking down that
story I'm sorry I was I literally walked downstairs he had a glass of wine and
then of course I walk in here I heard my name here buddy oh there you go there you
go but yeah no like I mean it's I'm I usually don't talk about it just cuz
like there's you know there's so much like controversy around beanie and I
again I don't have any malice for him I think he's incredibly smart and you know
there are you know you can have whatever opinion of whatever people but you know
it is the tracking that I like have like so many people sometimes just like
spewing like this crazy speculative crap like you have people DM you right now
saying like buy blue like that got like super exhausting after a while when it
wasn't like it was never meant to be like something that you know I wasn't
gonna build the next the next like deejans or whatever out of like this
like meme of another project wait why yeah we make unity over
somebody said that to me okay I think somebody said that to me I'm not even
looking at my DMS right now but I can just feel it but I appreciate you being
candid and you know being honest with the story I said this at the beginning
of the space actually I don't trust beanie like I wouldn't give him my seed
phrase but I do like him and maybe it's because I know some people will hate me
for saying that but I don't know he's just like kind of fun to talk like I
had a good time talking about this baby bro I love it when he when he fucking
sends a tweet and pumps my bags nothing wrong with that you know like you
literally don't have to hate anybody like you could know someone's like not
like yo yo do you not I mean I mean that yeah that maybe I hate Sam I am bro
rekt where is bait hoeven with you look I just wait why does everyone keep
telling me the bloot dab is based what does that mean this is base is community
takeover okay all right well we we get back to it my DMS are your DMS are what
Frank what's going on in there no no the state I when you unmute the state oh my
my DMS are going crazy they're just saying to tell you that all man
Forecaster is full dude they just ran out of spots and so don't even bother
like checking it out so yeah that was what my DMS are just insane on that one
no they took my somebody there is a leap either it's leap underscore XYZ or
or leap somebody with my PFP and I've never made a Forecaster account so
someone's just like the largest just leap it's just leap and your PFP so yeah I
don't I don't even understand it you can't you can't even say that they took
it from you because it Forecaster has been available for so long and you just
slept on it yeah but they're using his like dark farm that's the crazy part
yeah no I'm I'm I'm saying gave it away for free a three-month auction would
assault that also if you see if you see a leap account on Pornhub with this PFP
it wasn't mine either somebody made it somebody took it for me there too Jesus
bro hold on yo you like friend tell us something if you see this account if you
see my PFP on Raya yeah they that one wasn't me I could Rex well you know what
this is a community takeover here click that button in the bottom right hand
corner there are 80 likes if we can get that to a hundred and hundred and ten
likes in the next 60 seconds then I will remove Rex from the stage I am a man of
the people and it is a Dow so okay nobody's liking we got two likes damn it
I'm washed okay well this is this is totally fine well leap listen you know if
you use if you use my Forecaster invite you get free free warps and you didn't
do that and other people like lots of other people did so you're you're you're
missing out here's the thing if I go to Forecaster I'm taking over I don't know
if you guys want me to do that I'm taking listen I don't have any followers
on Forecaster I don't even like it's not even about that it's actually just about
like all the other smart people that are saying really smart things that I'm
learning from instead of being on Twitter and watching people to say pump
my pump my like frog butt coin I don't know frog butt that's what you came up
with look why are some why somebody in my DM saying D gods and youths are
oversold now is the time real DM Wow this Frank MFR is a galaxy brain why did
somebody send that to me finally the first real DM that you've said on the
stage man thank you thank goodness Wow wait I'm realizing I said I'm like the
youth not even funny be you are we in hot take mode like never to a controversial
shit yeah say the controversial shit I said we as in the collective we not the
not me okay okay okay hot takes only I need like takes yo leave how is
corporate life okay that's more like a question but how's corporate life I love
working but I the hours are rough I'll be the first one to admit it I mean
like literally my first on Pacific time my first meetings are 6 to 6 30 a.m. all
the way back to back literally back to back booked every 30 minutes like
typically 15 16 calls every day to like 6 to 7 or probably like 6 p.m. 5 to 6 p.m.
depending and then I have like an hour and a half free basically and then I
start this space it's like and this is the way it's been for the past month and
a half which I absolutely love the company I'm where I love hello moon I
love working for them but I'm yeah the hours are are quite a bit if I'm being
honest but it is what it is I mean that's like again I've said this before
like you're not gonna get to eight nine ten figures by fucking just flipping
shit coins you're just not like you need to either work at a company and have it
but we just lost a hundred listeners dude did I really oh oh somebody did just
DM me and they said when hands and it was Chris should try not to that Chris
someone put three eats in that pork and make 14 million hey hey stop what's
going on leap yeah I just wanted to jump up and say Frank it's really great to
see you back in spaces and it's it's quite wild to actually see you here
because I I bought a uke yesterday and I got a fucking goal yeah go check it out
I posted about it yesterday rose super pumped to jump back in I know that
you've been going through a hard time lately so that's the reason I bought it
I just want to support and I know that this year is gonna be a good one for
you so fuck it we ball let's go fuck it we ball let's go honestly dude last
month was rough this month I'm kind of juice so yeah dude February is a
magical year for this for this community so that magical month my bad but dude
February all year do be wary you know should be lit I'm appreciate you Chris
man thanks it means a lot fire PFP thanks Frank appreciate you man good to
chat and blah shout out to you as well bro good to good to be up here on stage
with you and obviously leave much love to all of you guys thanks Chris
appreciate you Frank are we having youtober bro bro are you trying to put
my bags in what do you I'm not thinking about October it is fucking February
right now okay was so random are we having yeah be
wary I don't know yeah I December that's what are you what are you getting
on fucking forecast or do you that's the question okay I'll make one but I'm like
man people tell me get on nifty island people telling me get on forecast or
people are telling me to get a bumble like I I don't know which one to people
telling you young dimension fucking test shame people okay that literally wasn't
me actually that was back brother I don't know why it wasn't me I don't know
I am may have flipped over at my bed yeah I swear wait what is the dimension
test chain what it is should I be farming I know what dimension is but I
mean is there a test chain I should be farming on don't worry about it bro nah
I'm just playing it was the first thing that came to my my head I don't know why
I can't even get I can't even keep track of all these different things you have
to farm it's it's renewed to full-time honestly it's a full-time job to farm
point wait wait so so hunter I just funny cuz I wonder when to go get a glass
of wine and I had a little little guy sitting next to me I just fucking spilled
it all over my new book how fucking shitty is that greatest fear of getting
wine and bring it to my desk I I just know I'm gonna ruin a laptop one of these
shit shouldn't we don't say we all just put our wine in little sippy cups like
little children thank you go go all right rep was that Rex I I don't know if
it's a Rex or a pan at this point look at it can we get a show of hands who is
on some form of intoxicant let's just get thumbs up thumbs down weed alcohol
nicotine may count for some the york 30 depending on like you know what your
vibe is anybody you guys were DJ the only thing I'm drinking is my enemies
tears damn Frank power stars bar that does sound intoxicating wait who are
your enemies blood would have been more I see one of them in this in the audience
right now is it threat guy oh this probably errand to be honest no bro
third guy doesn't listen to these come on what do you guys listening to none I
don't know why literally I just open these spaces and get bullied for three
hours they this it's what these spaces have become I'm trying to look through
the I've heard you bully people to leave not gonna lie that's impossible
you're like I'm big leap and I'm bullying you I have not heard big leap
also someone said this to me the other day I haven't heard it in a long time
big dog habitat I used to say that I was thick I don't know what was getting into
me back then that's a year old big leap and big dog habitat that's like a year
old yeah Frank is in Frank are you the big dog habitat what's going on we're
throw coat when did that go away I know I'm a big fan I mean I I wouldn't you
need that endorsement leap you still need that endorsement I do I do he does
he just he just had to take a full-time job I need the endorsement I announce
it cuz not everyone's like oh you're corporate like you don't have you can't
say what you want anymore no you just sound poor wait can I ask Wow a
question of course of course Wow what do you think about um g pulling all the
music off a tick-tock like what'd you think about that move I saw that that's
wild I think he's cleaning up his wine does anybody I'm a fan of it actually
because I mean imagine you were universal just like with your whole
catalog on tick-tock and just a bunch of crazies dancing to it I mean it's
probably more than that but that's kind of like the initial like bro oh yeah but
bro what is that sound it was like first of all where did the classical music go
second of all like why why would that be a bad thing like the crazy people spread
the message and also like well it's it's kind of recreated a whole new fan base
for like older music because I mean look what happened to you what was it the
name of the band that had that song that people were skateboarding to or
something I don't know whatever but you guys understand what I'm saying no you
make perfect sense like the market the marketing is there it's just when you're
at Universal and you rely on the four pillars of entertainment the cringe
tick-tock dancing doesn't really make sense no no I mean that labels were
literally label it's funny how crazy like they would literally make like the
entire launch of albums or singles around tick-tock and like how can we get
this to trip like that was like a main marketing yeah but then they're like
okay now we are any bro okay all I heard was heat and all right hold on guys this
is this is time for the big dog habitat also I got a DM and someone said that I
love big dog habitat so we might have to bring it back but um I just want to just
shout out to our sponsors game it out I owe for they will never sponsor me again
by the way like it's it's it just never goes like I don't even but shout out to
them they're doing like decentralized GPU D pen type stuff you can check the
pin tweets at the at the top I was gonna pull out beat song I'm just sad
leave how do I sponsor the space Frank you know why you can't say big dog
habitat genuinely cuz you're not with you go why do you have to make me
depressed okay we are closed no we believe please please how do I sponsor
this yeah really sounded like blouse when someone asked blouse a question or
three lau so Rex good job of cleaning your boy oh no do you trust me people
say I sound like a bunch of people but I don't know might be the tism you okay
that last part was was questionable Wow we we have face and must go to office
saying he probably has some intelligence I'm telling you I think to
say besides right sounding like three lau right now and I was listening and
I'm actually like getting myself ready to go up for the day it's 8 24 a.m. where I
am and fucking righteous sounding like three lau wait what three lau oh
why is this happening what are you gonna throw you in a slot in your space man
please yeah let me where are you that I'm like a human zoo or something bro
like I don't know I don't know what a human send me the slide deck bro please
please my pitch deck is not great right now I got a few those rates bro come on
it's all about trying a cop man I want to know about this human zoo this space
is a human zoo yeah this space is definitely a human zoo you think you're
not getting sponsored excuse me they gave me they gave me okay hold up we
have a special guest Kevin mr. K money I think you can act and keep spinning
he's on that Kmart internet or something oh my god K money's here I'm trying to
I'm trying to bring him up okay money come up is crazy bro bro is on private
jets now is wild yeah it's actually don't forget me bro please let me let
me try inviting to because it's not letting me up or letting him up let's
try this we'll try this yeah he can't sit with us there he is all right Kevin
yo what's up can you save this yeah what was the hottest take you heard
tonight that's not that's not a hot take though like mob to the moon is just
like that's just you know basic psychology like the water is wet yeah
like that's just that's just the way the world works um were you in Harambe I
heard it had a bad day yeah it had a bad day you know I mean because the fucking
zookeeper tried to fucking shoot him but guess what motherfucker you can't
kill what's already fucking dead so Harambe is doing fine you know K money
capital LLC we had the back of the Brinks truck one time do a little plunge
protection so yeah I think you know oh shit sorry I forgot this is a space for
people I can't talk about any of these things yeah man so yeah wait I thought
plunge protection was the thing you do when you clog the toilet I am I need to
get this on track here for a second you're doing a great job at it I okay
Danny I mean leap so just get like give me the TLDR like what's been said
tonight like what did I miss so somebody said I was like beanie was like probably
the smartest person in the space I think that was hunter and then whoa
Naveen was saying a hundred hundred did say that I mean no I didn't okay well I
mean I do think Beanie's a genius and it would it would make sense for one of his
you know previous co-conspirators you know talk yeah that's not a hot take
though like what's it with like it's called a hot take arena yeah I actually
think there was an Avax guy who was like so on a sock oh well yeah that's a bad
take I made him cry I've been saving my take for whenever leap wants to rug you
okay what's your thoughts on juke oh dude okay so I've been thinking a lot
about this all right I like as the someone who's bullish on juke like long
term I don't really care what happened yesterday like it would have been nice
to see you know number go up astronomically what happens wait hold on
blah let me fucking fucking let me cook a little bit dude but yeah like it would
have been nice to see you know juke hit fucking two to five dollars like
yesterday and just like went bananas but then also like they would have fucking
got like ultra erect early on so it's like they're in a weird position because
like so I'm biased because like long term mega bullish on juke I think they
are by far like the best decks of all time and it's unfortunate that uni swap
will never ever be able to kind of compete with them just because of some
of the advantages Solana has like again like a thumbs down but like if uni swap
has a DCA function I fucking doubt I'll be able to happen because the theorem
transaction just so much unless they like incorporated a different fucking
layer but I don't I'm not that smart so I'm not gonna talk about that but the
thing about juke is like they made the right move for themselves but I don't
know I don't think they made the best move for Solana as a whole and again I
don't mean this like as a way that like where I'm like judging them at all
because I'm mega bullish on juke and I always will be but I just think like
dude if they didn't do the launch the way that they did and they would have
just fucking just you know launched the token fucking regular in the fucking
middle of like January right before the Bitcoin ETF like that coin would have
fucking printed and it would have made so much goddamn people so much fucking
money but it would have wrecked the juke chart in like like long-term it
would have taken juke and like their chart like longer to kind of recover
from that so I think they made the right move for themselves and I think they
tried something new that was interesting so I'm not mad at it and as someone who
is like a long-term juke like holder like I'm like I don't really care like
just like wake me up when this shit's at $10 but I do also realize that like if
they had done it peak hype and they just launched it regular without that
fucking like I don't know like that max price bullshit that they had like they
so many people would have made so much fucking money and like all of your
favorite meme coins in salon NFTs would have just probably like hit their fucking
like local tops but that didn't happen so still bullish on them sorry that was a
long rant because I haven't heard your taste on this and I'm actually
fascinated because you're deep what do you think about like new chains what's
happening L1s L2s we were talking about it earlier but you're deep I want to
hear your take well like as deep as I could go you know I mean and like I'm
like a fucking submarine ready to kill a bunch of rich people deep if you know
what I mean but the thing is Frank like I'm like my only like focal point in
like frame of reference currently is strictly meme coins so I could I could
talk to you about you know meme coins on new layers and how like they're the best
marketing for a new chain but that's like pretty much as far as I could go
alright Kevin what about this meme chain no it was Frank's idea you know in my
idea no well I was saying earlier is that basically exactly this I just
think I'm about to text you I'm fascinated by this but I think all these
new L1s are actually actively creating you know or helping incubate these meme
coins and so I think that's something to watch out for this year because a hundred
percent bro like like just take a second and think about it right like no one
really gave a fuck about Avax like we could all kind of be honest about that
like no one really cared about fucking Avax or fucking INJ right but dude the
moment like the dude like Avax launched like someone on Avax launched like cock
inu like coq inu right but if you say it's like really just cock in you and
kukwun listed that like kukwun listed that like at some point the kukwun
fucking like you know listing agent like they were like making they were like you
know sending the fucking paperwork to the social media person like yeah like
just go ahead announce cock inu will be available for trading and again like like so
normally like normally this like cock inu would probably never get on kukwun
right but but because the Avax foundation was just fucking max bidding
the living shit out of like any token that had volume on their chain like it
got on there because they they pulled all the strings to get cock inu and on
I'm in the wrong fucking business I should stop trying to do anything serious
I'm gonna throw my phone I think
literally like at its core it's all the same bro it's all the fucking same
I think meme coins are just way more honest like I really do I think I think
at the end of the day it's all speculation it's all attention and it's
all number go up and you could you know throw in all of the fucking you know
technological advancements and like you know a fucking world-changing tech like
technology that these things are gonna implement but at the end of the day it's
all the same thing and it's just more honest I think utility is the biggest
fucking scam that's my hot take leap
the utility is the biggest scam so wait I think he's I think he's right for like
the current audience I think that's like totally you know correct and the right
take for the current audience I do think that there are other interesting things
that will happen in this space and I do think that there's opportunity to you
know I don't think cocking you is gonna bring any new people into this industry
like that's just not gonna happen and neither is dog with hat or neither is
like you know okay whoa shit I didn't mute that was bad brother by the way but
I just want to say like I do think so like I would push back on that just
because this previous Solana meme coin season like I kid you not Naveem I
onboarded at least like 40 to 50 of like my IRL regular non crypto friends and
they all like kind of gotten because of dog with hat yeah I can't fade you
because they're listening yes shout out cuz I can make more music the only thing
that brings new people in I think it's the opposite right now like it's the
way I did like like hey money wouldn't exist because I wouldn't have had a
reason to be on Twitter to find out crypto news if it wasn't for fucking
safe moon bro like look I think that it when you look at the look at it
strictly from a sky casino point of view I think people coming in who don't
really give a fuck about anything that's happening the industry except for like
straight up making money I think that I think that's true but I think those
people like the conversion rate of a tourist to someone who actually sticks
around is pretty low because the minute that person the minute the token goes
down 50% like dog with hat you know top is like you know 40 cents or 43 cents
or whatever it is a token now it's like 22 cents a token so if you bought the
top as like a tourist to someone who like you know you know your friend or
whatever it is you brought in and they bought dog with have the top and he
bought 50% of your money that doesn't feel very good and I think you got to
remember that like you know the majority of people here who are insiders who make
money you know like because they hear about a token at like a low market cap
and then they show it to their friends and those friends at a invariably like
buying upward you know in the cycle for that particular coin and then they get
racked you know the majority of people are getting racked and so I disagree
like I think that this idea that bringing people into the industry just to
buy your bags and be exit liquidity and and like that's going to be the
conversion rate of people into the space I think there is a conversion I'm not
saying there's no conversion but I'm saying that you know I think that it's
a real issue you know the majority people end up losing at our collective
expense and that's a pretty shitty outcome but I think that's the only
proof of concept before technology technology actually goes out I think all
of this product is all in feasibility and JPEGs and shit coins are the only way
that you actually attract people to actually come to the space and actually
become to a normal yeah I uh I kind of wholeheartedly agree with that because
like dude I joined the space just because I wanted to make money and then
yeah like I round tripped like my safe moon bag so in me round tripping it I
was kind of forced to become a community member which like led me to like open
my eyes to the rest of like crypto and it was like more than just meme coins it
was like NFTs and then I kind of fell in love with it and like dude like one of
my friends he's just a normie friend he bought his first like coin he got was
Pepe and he fucking bought Pepe at like a billion market cap and literally just
lost everything on it and then from but but like the thing is like it like he
wasn't like oh fuck this space I'm done instead he was like hey like okay this
wasn't my trade and he just kept trying and like kept trying to learn and like
stayed active and then eventually hit it big in like December on a Solana meme
coin but that's just because so like like I think the people who do end up
like you know losing money and stuff like yeah like there are a good amount
of people that just say like fuck this shit I'm out but like I've seen
personally like more people who are like wait no there's something here and I see
like anyone else yeah those are the great equalizer yeah what you're what
you're talking about what you're talking about is converting someone in a casino
which again I respect and I think that's like I think that's true like you know
you bring someone into like you know Luxor in Vegas or you know it's a shitty
casino Bellagio in Vegas and and and they're like hey you know come play this
casino game and people are like yeah I think the casino game is fine and if
people and and there will be people who convert to that I agree you're right
there are people who will convert and stick around and participate but I think
the data shows that like you know look what one of the hallmarks of a bull run
is that like retail comes to play okay well why does retail leave though like
why does retail leave the reason why retail leaves is because you know a lot
of these tokens you know some of them are are like you know like higher
integrity if you will but a lot of them are not a lot of them are fucking rugs
and people get burned you know and and that just happens like you know I see
Frank thumbing me down but like the majority of meme coins that have launched
are rugs I think like that's just factually true you know like you know
and as someone who's been in this industry for a really long time and I
think people can largely agree the majority of tokens that launch are
fucking scams and and so you know I just think that you know ultimately I think
that the point I want to make is there are many different ways that people will
come into the industry over time there is nothing wrong with the Sky Casino
there's absolutely nothing wrong with people coming in via meme coins I
totally agree that that is a way for people to come into the industry I don't
I don't think it's the only way I don't think we're gonna have 5 billion people
who are connected to the internet gambling on fucking anal OS like I don't
I don't think that's like actually gonna happen I don't think that 5 billion
people actually want to sit in front of charts and like trade because if that
was true then you actually already have 5 billion people sitting in front of
charts and treating other sorts of fucking things I see Frank you know
thummings down he clearly believes that 5 billion people are gonna end up in the
Sky Casino I think that there will be other things that you know happen in
this industry that bring people in over time so I have a hot oh I got a I leave
I was going down Frank go ahead let me down is the more universal hands raised
but no I mean I just think a much less cynical view similar to k money honestly
I was I was a Bitcoin maxi and then I got curious in the BSC shit coins like
BSC but Binance marching B&B like meme coin season that shit was lit it was the
OG Solana of like alright man I'm too broke to fucking you know actually spend
gas on anything so I got to use B&B and I'm telling you like my pipeline was I
basically hit it pretty sick on some coins but ultimately just like everybody
losing everything that my initial buy-in and then I was like alright you know
what this is pretty fun I want to get more into crypto so I'm gonna check out
more like NFTs other ecosystems and then I bought back in this time with like a
much more sober calm mindset around it of like okay let's let's figure out what
the fuck's going on here I think this is a perfectly fine actually I would
venture to say a vast majority of people that are in this space and literally
listening to Twitter spaces can resonate with the similar story literally you
that's like how it was for sure yeah dude I'm just speaking facts right now
like it's like you've showed up for the first time you get in some telegram
meme coin chatter you're following some guy that your friend said was a good
caller on Twitter you like buy a little bit you're like all right let me throw
it in you hit one coin you're like oh fuck I'm up sick now you're like I'm
the fucking goat I'm gonna start aping into more coins then you start aping
of more coins and once you do that you end up inevitably chasing your losses
banking out to zero cool now what do I give up and call myself a loser or do I
run it back turbo and what happens is when people run it back this time they're
like all right I'm gonna do a different this time and then they get into the
rest of crypto and because crypto is interesting people go deeper and they
learn about attack and they learn about NFTs they learn about all the other cool
stuff and then they become believers and when people become believers now they're
super interested in everything I think if you're listening to a fucking leap
space tonight you're to a degree a believer like we all are up here and so
but that pipeline doesn't happen usually with something that's not visceral and
the thing about meme coins is people glamorize it but in reality it's not
like anything sexy it's it really is like watching charts it's pretty intense
and it's not the right like experience for everybody some people want to take
it slower and NFTs are honestly better for that now late stage but if you're if
you're into that you know it's hyper-fast you want to be trading all
day you mean coins being in a group chat all the new coins that come out it's a
fun experience and I think people are gonna use that as a pipeline it's only
gonna get bigger there's nothing you said that I disagree with at all for a
certain audience dude I'm I the point I'm making is I don't think there's 5
billion people on this planet that want to do that I think that like I think
that the total market is anything else you know like in the bull in the bull
run so I'm just saying like I think there's some truth like it's fine you
know people guess how people learn about it it's what people talk about and then
you get interested and you go deeper and deeper based on your wins and losses yes
there there is a there is a conversion rate for sure there but I don't think
the conversion rate is as big as you think and I think yeah I actually think
I would be curious to look at the total market cap of self-proclaimed meme coins
and compare it to the total market cap of both private and public crypto
projects because the other piece of the puzzle is like the market cap that we
see on our feeds and on coin market cap is only the publicly traded crypto
companies when there are many many others that are that don't have tokens
that are worth quite a bit still in private markets okay but like it's not
made like you know like letting other people make tokens was the best thing
that Ethereum did and I think at the end of the day that's what drives those
those ecosystems that you're talking about Wow and we're just fine like I'm
not I don't judge it one way or the other it's just how it is but I don't
know like it's like the fact that people can do that I don't think it's how it is
like well there's a lot there's a lot to say here but like Bitcoin cash in a way
was in my opinion one of the first like major like air it wasn't an airdrop
right but it also was a hum in a lot of ways if you own Bitcoin you got free
Bitcoin cash and then everyone just speculated on what Bitcoin cash would be
worth so following the same sort of speculative formula they're not
technically the same by any means right it was just a fork but I think that like
I guess what I'm saying is I agree with I think when the Veen is trying to say
like I hard agree with the Veen in that for a certain audience type meme coins
are not very much different than like what came and he said then like even
macros that said you know I think we are many we are very far away from there
being a meme coin ETF as opposed to like other types of financial instruments
surrounding or I should say legit like I don't even like the word legitimate
because I actually do tend to think that speculation is good I just think like
the idea that most people are here for the memes is is a little bit narrow in
in its in its perception so I don't think it's most people but okay so I
don't think it's like one or the other I think this entire ecosystem needs meme
coins you need the casino because the role that the casino plays is just a
hook but the but I can see no and meme coins are but you're right you're right
but like there's also gonna be a non meme coin casino you know what I mean
like you know literally yeah like you're not wrong there but I'm saying like as
everything becomes like more legitimized like the people who are gonna benefit
the most from these like larger assets like let's say Bitcoin or Ethereum or
the people already like at a fucking much higher like tax bracket so the
regular like man retail they're like they're the ones that are buying lottery
tickets every week they're the ones that are yeah I agree I agree so like like
just like human nature I think like crypto needs meme coins and meme coins
and like obviously like like crypto is fucking great and it's so much as a lot
more depth and there's so much more like things that could change the world with
it but I think at the end of the day like meme coins role is like the hook
just like the same way as like an Andrew Tate fucking like podcast he has
like some things that are like more full of like substance but like he has to say
you know those zingers about like men and women or whatnot just because he
needs like the hook the clip the thing that's gonna get people to have a
visceral reaction where they're gonna want to see the rest of the thing that's
the same reason why it like any viral video on tick-tock the first like few
seconds you need the hook to get people interested so I want to jump in here
quickly I pinned this up to the top I didn't word this the right way so just
hear me out and then you can answer however you'd like so did meme coins get
you into crypto on a deeper level like obviously you had to buy either soul
first right like that's or maybe like you went on coinbase whatever but like
after that and forget Bitcoin a lot like whether you bought Bitcoin whatever I'm
talking getting into defy NFT like you got on a deeper level where meme coins
I think that kind of took you there initially so I have a poll at the top
and then you guys can vote would love to hear what you guys think about this I
need to forget Bitcoin because right now Bitcoin is going through that adoption
space which is actually not like forgetting it but just like relevant to
the conversation like obviously coins are coming on Bitcoin right and that's
why a lot of people are going to Bitcoin right so runes is going to make it a
shit coin palace right or shit queen casino like Naveen likes to call it
well I like to coin palace that's actually pretty good hundred percent
but I can see a hundred percent but that's in the future like we're talking
like right now obviously BRC 20s exists as well but like I'll say for me I mean
I was buying Bitcoin and ETH here and there but like really what got me into
it was somebody told me about Shiba in you and I fucking joined a Facebook
group and then I was trying to find the next big thing so I was on 4chan and I
found Hokkaido two hours after it launched and then I saw them talking
about like oh we're gonna be in telegram I'd never heard of telegram
before so I went to telegram talked in a voice chat for the first time and then
met like a ton of people and that just like took me down my route literally like
it was because of shit coins that you have elite sitting here right like I
don't know I was trading in 2017 my first all coins were like psycho in and
like other deep in things like back then we're like the ICO or and so there's
more about a lot of those are legit I mean psycho and so around now but you
know a lot of those ICS and stuff were like you know a lot of scams but you
know they were kind of like actually trying to sell you like they were a tech
company versus being a meme coin you know I mean I would I mean I would even
say those are shit coin meme coins too like it may be in a different form but
like like the I guess that the bigger point is is like did you get in because
you tried to like make money really quickly with some very speculative asset
that wasn't just the main L1 asset like it wasn't just like sold Bitcoin eat
whatever the fuck I actually like what K money said about meme coins being more
honest about like like what bad brothers are saying about the ICO era is it was a
very dishonest type of speculation whereas like meme coins just are what
they're it sort of idiosyncratic and not like they really aren't trying to be
anything else and so in that sense I actually like what came here saying
about them being more honest and I tend to agree here's a hot take I'm not
saying I agree with this but just interesting what you guys think I'm
gonna say it as if I do agree with it but I don't just keep it keep that in
mind I don't I don't care if we onboard a million new people I care if we onboard
a hundred really really smart talented people that build really cool shit here
now I'm not saying I agree with that I'm not saying I agree with that but it's
like we talked about like onboarding a million two million three people hopefully
there's a hundred you know smart people out of a million people Jesus bro I mean
there might be only ten who knows but like do all I know is dog with hat is
gonna onboard more people than like your fucking you know like your favorite AI
company or fucking crypto company or fucking NFT project ever will it has a
hat bro hats are universal do the math well actually I think mag was the
inspiration yeah it's a good point he has a good point I think it was the
inspiration of like taking the hat and putting on it and like mag really I'd
like Bitcoin laser eyes were the first thing that you could just apply to your
PFP and show solidarity with a community but then like mag kind of did that
interestingly as well but yeah if you think about it really started with the
laser eyes so I don't know I think shit coins are cool I think they're fine I
don't think they should be the main thing and it's it is a little bit
troubling for me personally that that is the main thing right now but you could
say the same thing about NFTs back in 2022 and 2021 I mean it was it was the
same shit just but we were kind of lying to ourselves and telling us it was
about the art like bro just change your algorithm then go follow a bunch of
fucking like eac fucking like you know tech pronoun people and you're like your
whole feed is just gonna be different shit like I think I think you're just
following all the NFT like people that you know that all realize they can make
more money in meme coins than they ever will in NFTs so they're just like all
talk about meme coins now so I here's this is why I think it's troubling it
yes it's an amazing way for people to get in and a lot of people stay and end
up doing cool shit like I I let's look at the poll here all right the poll is
about 5050 but only 34 people voted there's 400 of you that matters like go
up there and vote so I'm genuinely interested I do think a lot of people
that buy meme coins exactly like you said I think was Frank or Kevin you get
in you learn more about it and a lot of people quit and a lot of people don't
and and that's good I mean that's why I'm here that's how I got started that
being said what I find troubling is people think they're gonna flip their
way to like generational wealth I think some can and I know Naveen disagrees on
me it disagrees me with this but I think that trading shit coins profitably over
a long period of time is one of the most difficult things you can do in the space
like it's super intensive you have to be up all the time you're watching charts
all the time you're in a hundred group chats trying to gain as much information
at all times like it is very difficult to do profitably over a long period of
time and I think most people lose money because most people get in at the top
dogecoin there are millions of wallets that hold dogecoin there's 1.5 million
wallets that holds that being said I would say the majority of those people
are in the negative leave basically I couldn't agree I couldn't agree with you
more and I think you're spot-on you know again the last two years three
years was a turn to NFTs now the new era here the phase is the you know meme
coins it reminds you of the ear of fucking 2000 with a dot-com here where
anything that came IPO'd on the stock market that had anything to do with the
internet ran to the moon two three years later 90% of them companies were gone
they weren't making any money these meme coins they're I don't know how are
they making any money how are they gonna last I think people so grandpa I agree
with what you're saying but like even if you take the internet example yeah the
most of those things went to zero but then the internet became the biggest
thing ever created right and I and I think it's gonna be the same thing with
with meme coins shit coins culture coins whatever like most will go to zero but
at the end of the day it's more people that have crypto in their wallet and
more people that know about blockchain and you know you could be a from the
from the mindset of like anything takes up or everything what is the word for it
anyway this is my point I find it troubling that most people think they're
gonna get to success by flipping meme coins where I really think the best way
is to build something or work for a company that's really good like that is
the true way that you make a fuck ton of money in this space you don't make it by
by flipping meme coins unless you are the 1% who's extremely talented at it
which most are not if you are then great like Kevin you're really I mean
you're one of the best at it Cyrus he's not really a meme coin guy but
incredibly talented or you want or you're the 1% of the meme coins that's
actually pulls out here making money and actually does raise because of that
maybe it's possible I mean there are there are meme coins that are trying to
build things I mean look at bonk bonks trying to build a ton of stuff even
Shiba gave a stab at it with well Shiba and bonk are not meme coins like
they're just VC like VC backed like tech builder coins like hidden under like the
mascot of a meme wait do you want to know where the money comes from though
that's in the VCs cuz this is the best part I know it's not mused again FT's am
I right okay sorry oh no no I was gonna say it actually comes from like all the
university endowments and hospitals and pension funds and then that's going into
you know kind of crazy meme coin ideas but like it's that's what's going on well
I don't know anything about that actually that's pretty crazy to hear so
I'll every every time I buy a meme coin I'm potentially helping cancer research
is that what you're saying all right we gotta take the money away I guess we are
using grandma for eggs and liquidity so good job guys well Naveen I'll throw it
over to you what's up what do you think yeah I mean again I think that meme
coins and trading is really good for a particular audience and I think it's it's
you know this is one of those things where if like you happen to be one of
those people who's like really good at it or you spend your a lot of your time
doing it then you know it's easy to believe that like that's something that
everyone else wants to do the way I like to think about it is I like to think of
it actually like akin more to like collecting like people love to collect
so many different things like there's literally somebody out there who
collects fucking like old soda cans they're like I don't pick something
fucking random like people collect like fucking weird ass shit you know and
that's like that's cool like and that's gonna be something that a certain group
of people are gonna like and there's gonna be varying audience sizes right
there's like way more people who are like there's doll collectors like
millions there's entire conventions you'd be shocked you go to like Vegas at
the wrong time of the year and walk into one of those fucking like convention
centers and it's like a bunch of doll collectors and you're like what the fuck
where the fuck am I there's some parallel universe and and that's kind of
the nature of it and I think the same is true for meme coins like I think I don't
I don't believe that you know the total addressable market of hardcore
degenerate like meme coin trading is necessarily all that large in terms of
like total number of human beings but it is large enough for it to be interesting
and it is certainly large enough for it to be a onboarding path for crypto like
I'm not here to like dispute that I'm just making a point that you know like
there's a lot of different people who are really into a lot of different
things not everyone likes to you know go to Vegas not everyone likes to gamble on
sports like that's just facts and I think that you know ultimately what we
need to do is have a wide range of things in this industry that appeal to a
much broader group of people for it to really win because ultimately the goal
is for these protocols to be like essentially a new layer of the internet
like a value layer of the internet and I think it's a little bit myopic to
believe that like the only way that happens or the primary way that happens
is you know people buying like fucking like you know cock and you or anal OS
like I just don't I just or dog with hat and so you know that that's really my
only point and you know there are a lot of people who came into the industry by
the way with collecting JPEGs like a lot of people came in you know collecting
believed in whatever those narratives were you know whether it's 10 KPFP
collections or art or whatever it is so you know that's an example of something
else that's a little bit different than for example a mean coin but I do also
agree and want a second you know came on his point about just like honesty and
integrity I think there there is sort of a bad habit in the space to you know
like lean into like you know many different kinds of narratives whether
it's like Ponzi nomics narratives or whether it's you know other you know
fake or false technical narratives like oh it's an AI coin like what the fuck
does that even mean you know there's like a lot of that kind of stuff out
there for sure and you know look when it's just called cock and you and
there's no like technical statement about it like it's literally just a
fucking just a random-ass token and you can see what the liquidity is and you
can see like the number of wallets that hold it and whatever it is like yes
that's a refreshing bit of honesty in a space that's trying to push like a
fucking AI token which is meaningless so I want to throw it to I have a lot to
say on this but but DK you told me you have a hot take so I'm I'm genuinely
curious what your hot take is what do you think yeah what's up it's about as
hot as it gets on a recording space oh man can you hear it yeah yeah yeah I'm
yeah it says how's it gets on record space but the take really I mean I have
a couple comments on another thing but the hot take is that like the Twitter
spaces host no offense leap are the Jim Cramer of crypto Twitter it's like you
guys alpha was trying to say something about runes that dude got airdropped
like a hundred thousand dollars the last two weeks and you're saying it's still
not early it's like all these people I mean generally there's exceptions but
I'm just speaking in generalities here it's like just a speculation is a
critical part to onboard people in the crypto but if you actually think about
like the initial energy you need what's actually like the conversion it's like
you want someone to read the white paper you want someone to read the information
understand the blockchain tech once they understand the blockchain tech hopefully
they identify with more like the ideals that decentralization open source
ledgers and kind of no middlemen's you know kind of this general crypto ideals
do a portion of people that speculate on main points get to that point a
hundred percent historically that was probably the main way people kind of get
on board the crypto and then go down the rabbit hole however like as crypto gets
more relevant as Bitcoin kind of gets more regulatory clarity I think this
changes and kind of evolves as like what Naveen was saying into a way that
people are just gonna have that initial energy to read a white paper to look up
what blockchain is just based off what they're seeing on the news or Wall Street
Journal whatever but I think like the most important thing here is that you
know we're all in a very super kind of dynamic environment on crypto Twitter
right there's thousands of tokens probably just mentioned in this one
space tonight it's like everyone could win but really if you're gonna be
spending your time all day in crypto Twitter you want to outperform and I
think like the outperform it is where you're not gonna find people talking
about spaces on that shit you got to like lift up the rocks and I think like
right now is still critical in the cycle right these coins are not at all
time highs you know most of them and I think like it's just a new playing field
and the real hot take is like don't ignore what's going on a Bitcoin and you
know obviously I'm biased but I wouldn't be saying that if I didn't sincerely
think that and when you think about what's going on the positioning of the
cycle and I've wrote a lot about this if you just go through my threads it's like
crypto Twitter spaces have the worst fucking advice if you're actually trying
if you're doing PvP VC shit coin meme coin trading with like 10 million
market caps yeah you spend all day on Twitter spaces if you're doing that shit
but at the end of day like no one's gonna tell you what you got to do just
fucking figure it out read it make a list of 10 white papers every week and
just read that shit like I think people are getting too lazy on Twitter spaces
and like I took away I took a while away from that and just went in the books and
yeah I think like people will be better off doing that and you can always just
listen to it there but yeah I think like there's too much bad advice and
everyone says not financial advice not financial advice but what about you
telling someone not to do something and then they miss out on it it's like
there's only there's only kind of fault and guilt when you tell someone to buy
something and it goes down but there's no one that gets credit when you tell
someone to buy something that goes up because you believe in it and the
fundamentals and you studied it so that's the take leap is like you know
more white papers less of this fucking meme coin shit and like get people
reading this stuff cuz like you're a tourist you're a transit if you if you
can't understand a blockchain and what a note is you have no fucking business
buying a meme coin you're gonna get wrecked and you it might take you cycle
figure that out but I'll still be here
I mean look I I don't think anybody should be listening to Twitter spaces
I'm like like super super outlet you shouldn't be you got to go do your own
research I 100% agree in regards to what alpha was saying the reason I didn't I
really didn't mean to discredit him and I apologize if that's the way it came
off but mostly due to the the nature of the poll which is and in the
conversation at that point which was like how did you get into crypto well
most people here have been here for a while I doubt they got in from BRC 20s
I would be genuinely surprised if even more than 2% of this space if even 1% of
me think about it bro we've been talking about the same shit for two years now
there's new people around there's new protocols there's 10 billion dollar
coins that got created in the last three months and on this ecosystem yeah for
sure I agree though it's like there's a lot of stuff there I'm not here just to
say like ignore that but I'm just saying like generally speaking it's like the
little stuff that is a little misunderstood it gets passed over way too
easy on Twitter spaces when I think really that should be like the emphasis
of discussion it's stuff that's not everywhere that people are talking about
like if you could just Google a meme coin and see everything you know know
about it like why even discuss it what people could do their own research on it
I mean you're trying to show it or whatever that's one thing and like
people do their own spaces it's your space you hosted I wasn't trying to like
say that but this is my general thinking of someone that spends a lot of time you
know in this world is like people really just you know it's not fun it's like the
market rewards people that put the work in if everyone's on a Twitter space and
there's a good idea chances are it's already bid the fuck up right and
whoever's saying that idea already fucking owns it so it's like yeah break
the cycle and put in some work there's tons of resources and I think this is
really the the real advantage you have being in this space is that there is no
real textbooks there's no college courses there's no you know fucking
established like hierarchy of information it's like all this stuff is
kind of like in the cowboy world still so it's like you could actually get a
thesis of a general like blockchain event and then figure out how to get
exposure to it and work the way down read through the white papers understand
the tech but if you're if you get into crypto without understanding the basics
of like blockchain you're gonna have to figure that out eventually and usually
you'll figure it out after you get wrecked because you misunderstood
something or you and also I think the last hot take two is that there's way
there's not enough talk about security people can make a thousand X on a meme
point and then they click on a drain of the next week and their whole life
savings is ruined it's like you can't have any gains if you don't know how to
protect them first and you know I tried as much as I can to talk about security
but you know I'm not saying like how to run your space leap that's just my hot
take you know that that's all I mean I would say this I would say I actually
want to look at the numbers the amount of spaces that I've done in the past
year that included ordinals and their title I think is probably more than any
other spaces host on Twitter and I actually think no I give you credit for
that leap I think a lot of people found out what ordinals work yeah and and
because of you as well I mean you were the you were there really early as well
as Trevor and Udi and even Leonidas I do agree that and this is where I'm
conflicted zk because I don't believe that you need to be a game developer to
play games or a engineer like a mechanic to be able to drive a car I think you
should just be able to do those things and I think there's a lot of people that
will participate in crypto that genuinely just want to be here for the
vibes for the community and they want to participate in a movement I don't think
like I 100% agree with you and when I first got into crypto I was reading
every white paper and doing I've shifted more so to focusing on other things now
but I think they're both necessary like you need like in my opinion I think
there needs to be people that do just want to be here because they enjoy that
the environment and I think that's important and then you also need people
on the flip side that are like really like deep deep deep deep I hear that too
and obviously like everyone's here for different reasons there's not everyone
trying to maximize how much money they can make some people are you know
interested in just a tech or whatever and I put myself in that category too but I
think that those people that you talked like you don't have to be a game
developer to buy a game or whatever it's like those people could buy the Bitcoin
those people will have very easy retail products they already do those people
are on coinbase if you're on crypto Twitter to the point where you're
looking up small projects before they minted setting keeping track of your
own private keys as you should it's like you're doing in the work where you
should have outperformance you shouldn't just be chilling around like if you're
actually putting in hours of this ecosystem spending more than two or three
hours on Twitter every day you should be outperforming the market if some you
know I mean obviously there's a different levels to it I'm not trying to
like give people financial advice but this is like kind of early internet
error right like think about in the 90s all fucking scams there is like 10 or
15 companies that made it through that's like where we're at right now I think
where it's like there is a huge amount of scams and I say scams like loosely I
think a lot of teams have a very well in 10 intention and you know just the
market it's like startups are rough you know not everything survives and not
everyone's cut out to for web 3 it's 24 seven seven days a week there's
nothing else that runs like this right so I think like it's a it's a balance of
everything but at the end of the day it's there'll be products for all types
of participants but if you're getting involved in something that this clunky
this much risks it's like you should be compensated for it and I think like the
part where people are losing it is that they're just not following through of
like maybe they hear something interesting on a Twitter space it is
never follow-up and never got exposure I think about how many times that you
mentioned something and then it's hundred X the next two weeks right it's
like there's a lot of people that probably are taking themselves and that
that's why my hot take was trying to be emotional just try to motivate people to
like putting the work themselves because it's like you know these people think
there's this still early stuff moved but like you don't forget like you know
every cycle thousand 36 days Bitcoin three times at all previous time high
right 20 to 60 K 6 to 18 K it's like this is still still some time in this
cycle and we have one of the most amazing cyclical blockchain events you
know the kind of the cyclical blockchain event that having coming up in what 65
days or some shit so like yeah I think like now's the time to put in the work
so I mean I definitely agree I pin this pole to the top I'm genuinely interested
it says are you profitable in crypto so not like have you made a bag here like
are you actually profitable trading crypto that could be NFTs crypto
whatever it is and profitable to like a meaningful amount not like $1 like are
you actually making money for the time that you're spending here if you guys
could click that pin tweet at the top and go on it genuinely curious I would
assume that most people that are here are but not Lee but I think like I'm
sorry I jumped around but I'm just on different wavelengths than you guys I
think but I think like right there is you're faulting in a tweet right there
you're showing a short-term mindset right there you're not showing
conviction it's like if you're profitable at a at the you're profitable
now you're probably selling too early right it's like historically you want to
sell when it's just at all-time highs so I think like no the idea that I'm
trying to make is that the better pole is do you have a strong conviction your
bags because you have a understanding of the underlying technology or are you
just holding your bags and hoping for the best because it's like so so Zeke I
like I so completely agree with you and I also have a story which is a quick
story which is aside from specific things I'll just put my hand down now
it's a quick story as well this again this is not gonna be a quick story okay
yeah like I don't know you could either take it take it from me or not doesn't
really I don't really give a shit nice in the nine years that I've been fucking
doing this if I'd never sold Bitcoin and aetherium that probably would have been
my best trade that that's and I've done I've done all right I literally stopped
trading probably at like scale like five years ago because I just believe in the
big things and I think the little things are more risky in general and I throw
little amounts of money at little things and then maybe some of them work most of
them don't but if you actually believe in stuff Bitcoin and aetherium are going
nowhere and and Solana is showing promise but I still wouldn't even put it
in the same category so for what it's worth like and take my word for it
please I would have done way better if I literally just held on to everything and
didn't touch it over a longer time horizon so that's why I just want that
their whole story story I mean look I mean this is I think we've been saying
this for a long time like if you have conviction this isn't like breaking
they're like what we're talking about here is pretty fucking basic like you
buy things and you hold I could say the same thing about so many of the bags
that I have but at the end of the day people don't do that because they invest
more money than they can afford to lose like they also think they have control
over the outcome and like in the regular stock market most people can't outperform
the market most they don't have the so it's like the same shit I mean like most
I 100% agree with DK with what you're saying and I also 100% agree with what
you're saying Wow and I think people should do that I think you know if you
have the time and like a lot of people have families and look I'm 28 I don't
even have a fucking hat like I'm a nomad I'm traveling all the time and I have
all the time in the world to spend on crypto and do this up a lot of people
don't so for them the best thing to do is just DCA into Bitcoin ETH and other
things they have conviction in and just hold for a long period of time but
again everybody that I talked to they they don't think about it like that and
that's actually why I think spaces are really important because they they
integrate the culture on a much deeper level and they they create a level of
conviction for people that I just think reading tweets does not create now
obviously spaces are much smaller in terms of reach than any tweet could
ever achieve or could achieve but how do they think about how do they think
about it when you talk to people outside of the space like I'm curious because
they think it's a scam I mean they think it's a scam because they hear like
everyone bought Bitcoin at 69k and then they buy fucking doge at 80 cents
because Elon's on SNL and then they're buying fucking bonk at its all-time high
they're buying Shiba at all like people are not getting in early because that's
not when they hear about it we hear about it we make money and I would hope
most people have done pretty well or at least somewhat well or didn't lose too
much money but like most people think it's a fucking scam which obviously we
don't agree with but that's what most people think so like we have to get them
over that initial hump before they can even get into fucking reading white
papers and so on and so forth and though also though another example I'd give is
there's like a lot of people who play League of Legends every day all day and
fucking suck and you would say it's like hey you're playing League all day
SPF SPF is like you're playing League all day why don't you take the time to
learn what an AD carry should do like how to properly jungle how like top
should actually support mid like why don't you learn I don't even know what
that means what are you saying the point I'm trying to make it but the point I'm
trying to make is like there's a lot of people that just do those things because
they enjoy it and it's a pastime and I think crypto will be that for some
people but yeah I 100% agree with zk if you're spending any significant part of
your day-to-day I'm talking like multiple hours on crypto Twitter whether
it's spaces whether it's tweeting whether it's whatever yeah you should do
your best to be to be profitable and have conviction and and be here for the
long term like you don't want to just waste your time I just I have to say I
have to say it real quick I think a big part of this and I've always said this
but the cursive knowledge is very real and it's never been more evident in
crypto like just because we're all in this and we're here fucking 24 7
basically like yeah that's not that's not ideal for most people most people
aren't gonna do that and so it's real easy to forget like all of the things
that we know now that we didn't know when we first started not everybody has
the same like love amount of years in the space so there's that too right I
guess a big part of it is just trying to remember what it was like to not know
anything if you're gonna talk to people who aren't in the space and and show any
interest in getting involved in like remembering what it was like to not know
anything I think is probably the most valuable thing that you could do it's
not it's not about onboarding people or this or that it's just it's like she's
kind of it's also helpful for yourself you know like it's like leave you just
give a fucking League of Legends example that like I don't know how many people's
heads that went over but like I get what you're saying you know but that's
exactly but that's what I mean when I say the cursive knowledge like it's it's
it's very hard to remember what it was like to not know anything before you now
know something right so but also yeah yeah sorry go ahead no no go ahead
please please sorry well I don't want it I don't want to side-chip the
conversation but like the meme thing I think I'll just say this much like meme
stocks the movie dumb money some people are mad at me for talking about it so
much but I feel like just because it's now in the popular culture like dumb
money is about me stocks I feel like that was last cycle and I feel like this
cycle is gonna be about meme coins but that's another conversation maybe we
could talk about that another time I mean I think it meme coins encompass
what was popular in the last cycle and the cycle before that it just it's like
what Kevin said it's just like trim the fat and it's like very honest about what
it is it's like hey you're trying to buy early and sell on sell to some other
fucking bozo at the top but a lot of people I talked to especially like even
just like family members or friends that I have from before web 3 it's like
a very intimidating thing like to me it's very simple it's like come over
here come learn about some things and you'll like some of it you'll you'll
dislike some of it and for the things that you like focus on that and have
conviction but for them it's like like where do you even start where do you
even begin and that's why I think meme coins are are pretty good at that even
though people tend to lose quite a bit of money there so just these polls are
not indicative and I worded them and very poorly but this is the results so
so did the meme coins get you into crypto on a deeper level 45% said yes
and 55% said no and then the other one is are you profitable in crypto and 63%
said yes and 37% said no that's pretty good if 63% of the people in this room
are actually prop like and by the way that can mean on paper right doesn't
mean dollars in the bank but is your cryptos up and in terms of when you
bought it I don't know I think that's pretty good if 63% of people are
somewhat positive I don't know CK what do you think yeah no I think I was just
kind of just wrap my head around the 40 I saw it was like a few hundred votes
or some shit but yeah I think like the speculation you know historically in
crypto is has been like a necessary element for onboarding people even back
to before the shitcoin areas just looking at Satoshi Tyson Bitcoin and kind
of remembering you know looking at how that affected the network early on but
yeah I think like it's it doesn't really matter right it's like they get on
board through meme coins on board through the Bitcoin white border the
white paper on board through buying a Bitcoin ETF what's important is that
like yeah I think that eventually I think I have an extreme view where I
think is this stuff eats everything essentially but yeah I think like people
will get on board and like it's still early but I think there's a really a new
funnel that we haven't had the previous cycles with the Bitcoin ETF like you
know I don't want to make it a Bitcoin space but I think like in 2017 I think
like the onboarding the cycle is like you know download Binance or coinbase
app right now people have that shit downloaded people are aware of like
generally what Bitcoin is right like people will kind of accepted the fact
that it there is no physical coins of this stuff for like last cycle people
we're still wrapping their head around that in my belief at least there are a
certain portion but I'm excited because I think like crypto always came from my
get sketchy friend or that weird guy that's like you know kind of just in the
corner always doing his own shit I mean that was kind of like what I did at least
and now you have like State Street fidelity kind of the top Wall Street
institutions that are trusted with all this retirement money so I think like
this cycle is gonna look different you know look at the top of the funnel
there's all these types of new assets on Bitcoin or new types of meta protocols
it's like I think that's the path of least resistance for onboarding but like
I said I think like Jupiter people heard about that like Luke Bellmore you know I
don't like follow that kid too closely or something but I saw that he did a
podcast with me out and just like someone with that audience talking about
crypto is like really reminding me of the earlier earlier events leading up to
like the craziness in the previous one but I think also something that's not
talked about enough to in terms of like what we were saying with onboarding is
airdrops where airdrops are kind of like a risk-free meme coin in the sense
where you can have like you know 120 thousands of the capital that you
actually want to provide in this farm with that every day and I think like
especially looking outside of America or outside of the established countries
like one Jupiter airdrop for 2,000 coins is a year's salary in some
countries so I think like the financial incentive and I'm a game theorist at
heart I think like the financial incentive that crypto creates as
people experienced it there's still be incentivized to be onboarded but yeah
you know we I come to your spaces for a reason bro it's a good conversation I
always like hearing what people think thank you and you're definitely right
about the like there are probably a ton of people around the world that their
lives changed on this Jupiter airdrop and the last thing to while the Jupiter
I think like anyone who's fighting the Jupiter airdrop just unfollow them they
really just didn't read what's going on but Jupiter accomplished something
revolutionary in terms of a defy protocol where they were able to kind of
raise 250 million dollars and also have their core community get exposure to the
protocol without having fucking VCs involved in this shit and it was fully
decentralized and yeah shut up me out cuz I think like this is a feat that
people really don't understand how big this will be and it will be talked about
more and I think this will be likely a new meta in terms of VCs getting the
fuck out of crypto and more of decentralized and rewarding people that
use protocols so shout some me out I think it's such a great example for the
space to like be motivated to look more in that way so this is a part of that I
don't fully understand so they made 250 million by selling the tokens into the
buying pressure that read that retail gave like what is that basically what it
is yeah I won't go to insert on recording space just because it's
actively getting traded and I have I was the airdrop so I'm a holder of this so
you know don't want to go in down that road but yeah essentially like there's
liquidity pools and you know this was a heavily tested thing and really if you
look at the net effect people wouldn't even fucking know they sold 250 million
dollars if they didn't say it and like they're transparently putting it out
there and they already they did this transparently so that's that's my take
there and I think that it's still very early and you can't judge an airdrop or
any type of protocol like the first 24 hours 48 hours is trading but I think
like the fact that Jupiter could easily went to any VC and raised hundreds of
millions of dollars and they chose to do the decentralized way and reward people
that use the protocol I don't think they could have easily gone to anyone and
raised hundreds well then you don't know what Jupiter is Blau is because you
don't know what like come on bro it is really difficult to raise hundreds of
millions of dollars there are maybe only crypto companies in history that have
raised hundreds of millions from VCs okay and what what protocol has done
more volume than any other protocol and so on are making it under like look at
the numbers bro not me I mean maybe not a hundred million but 50 million I mean
they sold 250 million pretty easily right so that the markets there in terms
of user base and yeah I mean maybe not a hundred million I don't know what
I don't know that well I'm actually 50 but hundreds of millions is a big I'm
just like saying like all right they're the top protocol and so on yeah I think
they could raise what's the number I don't even think I think Solana through
all of its history only you know only raised right so like I didn't hear that
number I don't I know the number but it's in the hundreds but it's not it
might not do some research on so bro I don't got time you guys are going way
too into the weeds the curse is knowledge you research on so bro I know
Raj and totally I know that they did VC rounds I know that they did not raise
public capital to develop the blockchain oh this is what I would say am I am I
wrong did I miss something I just look at the beast how much money VCs raised
on saw the protocols growing and just check it out I don't know how about this
from both of you the bigger picture how do you explain an airdrop to somebody
outside of crypto and they don't look at you like you're crazy how do you do
that like that's been a fucking child kind of like the Starbucks rewards is
how I explain it it's like you use Starbucks and then one day they'd get
like 10 stars on the app okay wait bro I'm totally playing the saga a million
people are question they went oh that's cool all right hold on hold on okay you
literally just made me question my entire existence but I was not wrong
Solana raised 370 million but of course if you're missing the argument like
what's the number that you could have raised the top protocol Solana going to
the cycle you don't think they could have raised I mean I don't care really
it doesn't make a difference to my life but like I just think they could my
point was maybe not 100 million I'll correct it I think they could raise more
than any other protocol in Solana how about that that's fun yeah sure I was
just like what I guess I was just saying hundreds of millions is a very big
number okay I don't disagree with both you're both smart you're both pretty
it's okay hold on um so I mean but if they had gone to be I look I'm not a VC
expert but if they had gone to VCs would they have not have to they would have to
sell equity right you'd they'd lose a percentage of the company correct with
this way I mean they couldn't launch the token that way remember is that hey but
they did it they they didn't do the VC route none of that is centralized way
which is the whole point that ziki zk was trying to make I understand that but
it's not some like virtuous decentralization web 3 ethos
perspective it's like hey we get to retain control of our company and dump
250 million dollars into the ecosystem it's not like hell right like that what
happens or this is the web 3 of doing it without fucking lawyers and term sheets
and centralization and insiders but let's just be real that the money came
from the money came from like what is the actual multiple on fees earned by
the Jupiter team does that merit the public valuation the answer is probably
you know guess what Facebook's trading at like over 100x earnings so like I
don't know like that's pretty crazy right there for you to read read them I
think we all read them like on the twitch stream with meow like you don't
have to speculate on it they're all transparent but what go you're saying
something totally different than I am I know like the way this works the way
their funds work the way that them unlocking the token and all of this all
of this that you're asking about and the way the fees work no no I'm not asking
about it I'm saying the valuation as a multiple of the fees that a protocol
can make is the same way of valuing the market capitalization of a public
company and like that's why opens he was able to raise money at 13 billion
because they were making hundreds of millions of dollars doing a whole public
company is a thing and that's the case point where it's just like this should
be the crypto way of doing it like people wanted this token they bought
into it Jupiter made money off it was outgoing to a VC was out doing all you
know the legal bullshit yeah so I don't want to get into he's
blowing like yeah nothing against the numbers but I just say that like my
point was that Jupiter is a successful protocol I don't think anyone would
argue that it's not one of the most successful if not the most successful
protocol in Solana they could have won a traditional route and raise money and
gave away but they chose to do something you know exploratory utilizing web 3
values and I think that should be applauded that was yeah I agree with
that to do what was much more advantageous for them like I maybe I'm
thinking a little too pessimistic but look and I appreciate the way that they
did it and obviously it's more decentralized whatever the tokens are
distributed to whoever and whatever but like this was way better for them they
get to instantly make 250 million dollars straight to the fucking straight
to the wallet they don't have to lose a percentage of the company and they still
have a shit ton of tokens to sell like it well that's a whole other so okay man
this is why tourist faces can be kind of dangerous like half the shit is like
correct and then half the shit's wrong like I'm too tired to go into it but
equity as a function of like whatever trading fees the team and I don't know
enough but let's just distinguish between equity and tokens they are
different every setup and corporate setup is completely different in most
cases there's a foundation that governs the token and then there are spokes or
companies that incubate other types of applications and protocols that are
built on top that is like a theorem sort of started this model where a theorem
itself has a foundation and then also had consensus which built applications
for a theorem they were separated there's like an entire complicated
corporate structure that's still like questionable the same is true of ripple
right which is you know went through all the things that went through and like
this particular one is like what a year and a half old token look what it's like
basically nothing wrong with it but it's just super super super untested stuff
that like so you don't know you're talking about blah instead of
bullshitting everyone man have you ever used Jupiter I have not used Jupiter I
have not used Jupiter a token sales a fucking an airdrop plus you're talking
about resale okay can I ask you a question because I don't know yeah go
ahead please did they airdrop a token and then and then after airdropping the
token made some disclosures to the public and so these are billion dollars
what Google is that you did that happen over it was did that happen it was all
very transparent look at the doc okay that was transparent I'm not even saying
it's bad it was before like it was well before no I have three questions number
one was there there was an airdrop two users of the protocol and some of the
airdrop was withheld by the team is that correct no just look at the fucking
docks Jesus Christ well come on so that so that's wrong it was a claim it wasn't
an airdrop in the first place your whole premise is wrong you haven't done
one minute of research on this and shows I'm asking a question so I don't work
for your fucking questions bro go look read the docs come on man I don't fucking
time to read the docs I'm it's like not in I'm trying to get information faster
from you if you don't want to tell me the information that I can't make it
then I can't make a good judgment but like my understanding could be wrong I'm
not trying to pretend like I know everything I'm talking about all I'm
saying is if there was a token that happened and the team sold to retail and
was transparent about how they sold it that is an approach that I would not
take but power to them that's all that's what they did but I like Jupiter I use
Jupiter daily like I I've said this a thousand times I don't think I should
have to disclose again I like Jupiter I think it's great I think it's way better
than Uniswap for the average user and for most users and I'm excited to see
what they do the LFG launch pads an interesting route could have never
expected that and again I think they made the right decisions like the
company's in a much better spot they have a ton of funding they can develop
this shit in the way that they like to develop it and I think Jupiter holders
will do well I don't know what the short-term price action is I actually
thought it was gonna go down immediately people were estimating one to
two dollars but it's record like you can go check my recordings I've said
many times over the past two weeks that I think the price would go down
initially yo hold on I'm reading about it why are you giving me shit for saying
quote-unquote airdrop versus claim bro I'm giving you shit because you're
talking publicly about something I have no idea about in front of the space of
people that may be trading off of it so yeah I'm done kind of talking about it
just read it and I'm happy I'm happy to have a conversation with you but like
just kind of pointless for me okay I think I mean he was more so just talking
about just like the economic method of a company selling a token to the public is
is its own well no matter how they did it this whole general method you know
philosophy but like I'm we're talking about something specific bro and like
you just don't know the specifics so there's no point that's that's where I'm
at I don't need to know the specifics to make a judgment about a choice that's
legally questionable to your things I mean I'm like I said I'm just here as a
participant you know but yeah if you don't want to read it don't take the
time okay I literally just started taking the time and I'm questioning you
for giving me shit about saying airdrop you're like it wasn't an airdrop it was
a claim you don't know what you're talking about I'm literally reading
that's a fucking what's the difference in a fucking claim in an airdrop bro
come on well the claim you gotta you gotta like connect the wallet and I get
I fucking know bro okay then why you asking me this shit all right hold on
hold on okay I was asking you because they genuinely wanted to know and then
you gave me and I was just explaining it to you man like come on okay look I
think he's totally I don't know if he's trolling or not I got a little more
charitable be a little charitable I think he's genuinely curious yeah no
look I think again the utility of a Twitter space is you can get information
instantly from people who know more like zk you probably know more about this
than the 99% of people so you know I mean like if you know it's there's a lot
of about this shit that I don't know that's the main reason I started doing
Twitter spaces because I want to learn from people who know more than me and if
I don't know everything about something I'm gonna ask and I don't think that's
I'm not trying to like gatekeep the info the thing is that this is a very
complicated new dynamic and it can't be summarized easily by answering one or
two questions and everyone that participated knows that and that's why
they think like you know just just take a little bit of time maybe do some
research if you're gonna talk about it publicly it's a good thing we're here
for hours in it yeah I mean I think that's I think that's kind of the point
and actually even what you said before zk about like this is a much more
decentralized way to do it I hadn't thought about it that way previously I
mean like that's the point of these conversations right like no I'm here to
have those conversations but don't like conflate that shit with some of these
foundation bullshit and like yeah that was the point we can there can be some
comparing though right like obviously no I don't even think if the etherian
foundation and the consensus mechanism was necessarily correct either bro I'm
not saying that one is better than the other I'm just saying the thing that I
don't like is when a team decides to fund a project with retail money from
the get-go period but the alternative like problematic when a founder is
unanimous and cannot be held accountable like I I find that problematic that's
just my job but retail that benefited from it they got a claim retail that
should buy instead of getting open and like you just described every NFT
project ever in the history of NFT yes and that's why I yes true problem with
NFT projects is that their founders the founders dogs like he I mean yeah he's
called me out but we all know his face and I don't think dogs are not I look I
there are pros and cons no listen I'm gonna I'm gonna go read about it because
now I am genuinely curious and it's obviously a big deal but that said I
stand by my opinion about any whether I'm reading that it's synonymous maybe
it's maybe he stops now this is all happening in like fucking real-time the
reality is here's the here's the highlighted problem and then I'll shut
my fucking mouth the highlight the problem I want to highlight is in the
my fingers flip that's my bad god damn it in the event the token gets wrecked
people's attitudes will change really fucking fast whether there's good
technology or not and the likelihood of the token getting wrecked because it's
new and it's volatile is high and then it might explode upwards after you read
the paper or use the protocol bro come on don't be given financial advice no
not financial advice I'll do one for you Blau like nothing on the spacious
financial advice is a very high-risk token please do not invest anything that
will wreck you don't play that's basically all I'm saying but it's like
bro do not go on you didn't use it and you didn't read it no I didn't fucking
use it but I fucking seen five million things that are exactly the same as
this with the exception of one one variable that I think makes this
interesting is some of the functionality that my friends have told me this thing
has that other swap protocols don't and I think it's interesting but this
thing's been around for how long 18 months it's not enough staying power for
anything to be worth a billion dollars period like it's nothing to do with them
it has to do with the concept of retail money one from one one from zero one
point eight billion less than a year your arguments are not relevant here sir
sorry you could say whatever you want bro like I've been doing this for nine
fucking years I run a company the wallet investing other companies post yours
let's do this nine years I got older well we're not going back for back let's
both read up on this and let's have a conversation tomorrow that's educated
about it and see if anyone changed your mind simple as that I'm not in the form
of a rap battle oh I'm down bro and allows the music and if you guys do so
okay we got to end the space it's like 340 in the morning I have a flight to
catch as well I'm going to Virginia to see my parents but at the end of the day
well I'll say this about ftb quickly I don't think I post the link to this to
the official docs because I'm gonna spend the rest of my night reading them
yeah you gotta you gotta go use it I do admit you got to use it because Jupiter
is really great like it's it's fucking great I'm not I'm not hating on the time
maybe I'm the method of funding that's all there's there's multiple things to
discuss here there's the token there's the the claim there's the way that they
made money there's the fucking app itself Jupiter then there's the LFG
launchpad which we didn't even talk about which is what the fucking tokens
gonna be used for essentially it's governance voting I think that's what it
is governance someone's down voting me is not governance I'm pretty sure it's
fucking governance anyway look we got to go to bed it's 340 in the morning these
conversations are a lot of fun so I appreciate you guys please follow the
speakers also shout out to game in I know they didn't really say anything
tonight but they're on stage they're sponsoring my space for the month and
go give them a follow and check out what they're doing just takes two seconds to
click their account give them a follow so appreciate you guys if you do that
and then also click that button in the bottom right hand corner give it a like
comment retweet and support the space and yeah that's it same time same place
tomorrow I'll be landing in Virginia like 7 or 8 p.m. and then I'll try to
start the space like two hours after that but I love you guys please follow
Bad Brother for co-hosting I'll see you soon