hey ladies and gentlemen can you hear me at all sorry i think i'm having a few
connection issues on my other account
can you hear me? Yes loud and clear
hey ladies and gentlemen can you hear me at all
Sorry, I think I'm having a few connection issues on my other account.
Yeah, we can hear you, but if you're asking again, probably you cannot hear us.
Okay, I've booted myself. I've booted my other account.
It seems to be doubling my voice. I'm just going to bring up Cosmos host, our co-host, and then we'll get going.
Welcome to Into the Cyberstay, everyone. You are listening to the premiere public broadcast of Galactica Network.
This is a ZK powered L1 blockchain for decentralized society and private real world on and off-ramps.
This is an open stage, guys. So if you would like, you are welcome to come up and join us.
We have an amazing set of people up on stage tonight. We're actually waiting for another one, but no problem at all.
We'll just see if they're showing up. My handle is itisn42.gov within the cypherstate. You can call me Dave.
Today, I'm joined by my regular co-host, Cosmos host. It's a great guest with us today. First, we need to get through with a standard disclaimer.
It's very important to remember that anyone up on the stage right now, we are your guides to navigating the cypherstate.
We are not your financial advisors. So please do not ask any financial questions.
Our guest opinions are their own and nothing said in this space constitutes financial or investment advice.
Now, then, host, my friends, my wonderful co-host, how are you doing, mate? How has been a week been?
I know you've been on a ton of spaces, probably learned a lot.
Yeah, man, it's crazy. I feel like the smaller spaces are more, I don't want to be corny, but more intimate and you get a lot out of it.
You know, I was on a space yesterday, last night it was, and I feel like it was so underrated.
There was only about 18 or 20 of us in the entire room. But some of our guests, man, they're doing some really cool, innovative things.
And they're actually, it was the Adam Economic Zone, and some of the teams were building some cool things that actually aren't even out yet.
And it was like, these are the type of spaces where people, if they were in there or listen to the recording, they can get a lot out of it.
And I think that's kind of how this space is, too. It's like really good vibes and there's a lot of good, like, alpha knowledge, you know?
And if you're, if you're in for it, then that's what you should be in for.
Because I feel like that's where I learned a lot personally on a personal level, too.
So anyways, I'm glad to be here. Week's been going well, man. This is my next to last week of being full time into this space with no nonsense bullshit job.
So I'm looking forward to finishing that off and being able to do these things whenever I want, really.
So it's just like now and totally tonight. So that's what I'm looking forward to.
Man, I'm proud of you, man. Go in full time, full time. Everyone give 100 in the chat, please.
Four cosmos hearts going full time. Web three.
OK, guys, there's so and I completely agree on the smaller spaces stuff like I'd much rather have a small number of highly engaged people who care than have like a massive space where people are tuned out and just talking about nothing, really.
So, yeah, fantastic. We've also got on today our one of our lead developers.
So if everyone could say hello to a star, please make if you want to give an introduction.
Hello, everyone. Nice to be here again.
My name is Frederick. You can also find me as a star.
I'm part of the Galactic Development Team. So I'm a blockchain engineer.
And kind of my main focus areas are the knowledge proofs that we have in our system and smart contracts.
And the last thing I'm working a lot on is also the meta mask snap.
You can use to have safe custody over your ZK asset.
Yeah. And it's great to be in this space. I'm looking forward to the topic of re-award assets on chain because I think this is something where Galactic has a lot of cool opportunities.
And yeah, I'm always enjoying these spaces.
And listening to what you guys are saying about input style from the community.
No doubt, man. No doubt. And Frederick, it's been too long since we've had you on the space, mate.
It's an absolute joy to have you.
And finally, but most certainly not least, we have Johannes from NERF Network.
He'll be joining us for the first time on the show.
We're really looking forward to hearing from you, Johannes. How are you doing?
Thank you so much for the invite. I'm really looking forward to that.
Just for the ones who don't know me, as you said, I'm Johannes with NERF.
I'm somewhat in between tech and business, you could say.
And what we do and what I'm on is a quest to make Web3 suck a bit less.
And the Galactica is definitely kind of doing that same thing.
Making Web3 a better space, making it accessible, making it compliant.
Really looking forward to that.
Now, RWDAs is actually a topic which I have been in professional capacity in touch with for actually since 2017.
So a couple of stories to tell here. It's an exciting topic.
It's an exciting primitive. So really looking forward to that conversation we'll be having tonight.
Thank you so much for having me.
You are more than welcome, Johannes.
Everyone, please give Johannes a like and a follow or whatever it is you do on these social platforms.
Also, if you can find NERF Network, I'm sure it's probably linked in this profile.
Give that a follow as well.
I just give him a follow. Yeah, man, that's what it's about.
I support him. I love his motto, just make Web3 suck.
That's a freaking amazing type.
That's just such a hilarious motto.
I mean, honestly, I'll let us get into our thing, but I don't know.
I don't know if you know too much about Cosmos, but I feel like Cosmos doesn't suck.
No, I get vibes like elsewhere sometimes because it's like, I don't know.
I know what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be a max here or anything.
But I feel like that's why I came to Cosmos because I feel the same way. It sucks less.
It feels good to be around other people regardless of the network who are just trying to do actually move the space forward.
I would say is the general message for sure.
And I always find that with UHOS, with everyone who we invite up on the stage on the space,
we always try to invite just such people. So I'm not here for it.
Isn't that the beauty of the space?
Biddlers, we're all kind of pulling in that same direction to just build this system, which is amazing
and which makes all our lives better and not worse.
The creative sovereignty in the crypto way.
So yeah, thank you so much for the flowers there.
You're welcome, Johannes.
Everyone get comfortable, guys.
And again, if you are listening, first things first, always do the free thing.
Make sure you give us a like and a retweet on this space.
Little purple pill down the bottom right of this space.
If you have a question or a comment, use the comment section.
And again, this is an open stage.
If you wish to contribute to the conversation, you are welcome to request a speak.
So I think first things first, we're going to jump into the news.
Get everyone acquainted with what's kind of been going down in the Web3 stuff.
We tend to veer away from NFT stuff and all the drama.
We try to go for the regulatory, the stuff, the big stuff that actually affects the industry.
Just so you guys are kept appraised.
We just like to make sure you guys have a good knowledge base and we keep you updated.
So first things first, China.
China is going to be introducing a revised crypto AML anti-money laundering regulations.
And that will be by 2025.
They're planning to revise their AML regulations by that time to include all cryptocurrency-related transactions.
And the move basically comes after a blanket ban on crypto use was imposed in 2021.
It was circumvented by mainland users due to technical advancements and crypto to centralized nature.
You know, why am I losing my words?
What is the program called that gets you around internet blocks, guys?
Why have I lost that word?
Thank you very much, Hoss.
I'm not quite sure what happened there.
I've been there plenty of times.
It just happens, doesn't it?
So this revision will be the first major updates to China's AML laws since 2007.
So that's a big regulatory update there.
So guys, what do you guys think of the Chinese market for crypto?
Let's just attack this from that angle.
Do you guys have any experience with the Chinese market or do you have any comment on where they sit in the crypto market?
Yeah, I mean, I don't have too many comments.
Obviously, it's a gigantic market and there's so many people, right?
Like, that would be vital to be able to have them, you know, in that market, be able to participate openly in all these different protocols
and, you know, DeFi and just any application, right?
And they just, you know, sometimes I feel like certain regions just want so much power and control and just they want to do all that.
And a lot of times using the VPN, you know, I feel like it should be everyone's God-given right and ability in this world to be able to essentially do whatever you want,
as long as you're not like being real harmful and like killing people or something.
But like, for the most part, you should just be able to do what you want.
And I always visualize like monetary or just money as like a symbolization of your time on planet Earth.
And I just feel like, in my opinion, it's kind of morally incorrect and borderline criminal when someone tells you what you can and can't do with your time.
And for parts of the world, whether it's here in the States or anywhere that tells you like, hey, no, like you can't like go do this or that without our permission.
We're you're like savior. We're your commander, you know, it's like, I don't know, I take offense to it.
But I mean, I guess they're doing what they feel is best for themselves.
And, you know, so that's kind of my comment on it. Obviously, I want everyone to be every single human to have full access to be able to kind of just like partake in everything,
whether it's like airdrops or pre-launches or whatever. I mean, it's your money. It's your time.
You should be able to do whatever you want, you know, and I'm sure they're they're the same way how we are in the States.
I can't really comment too much on it, but they're probably the same way where you could take your life savings, go to the casino, lose it all.
And who cares, right? Like, it doesn't matter. But like, but they're going to have a problem with you buying a theorem or something.
It's like, OK, cool. Makes sense. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. No doubt.
I think the reasoning behind all this behind the behind the revised regulations is because obviously China has taken this odd stance with crypto.
Sometimes they're banning it. Sometimes they're embracing it. But the thing is, their regulations really, really have not been like updated to at all because of their like flip-flopping stance, I guess.
So they currently like almost any clear definition of digital assets at all within their laws.
So that's a really tricky one if they're trying to like suddenly embrace it, which I think is their current stance is embracing it.
Johannes, I don't know if you have any comment on the on the on Chinese influence within crypto or like where they sit.
You know, I always try to keep a bit of a distance here. And in that sense, that, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm century.
I have a very Eurocentric understanding or like culture and a background.
And what I I try to do is not to kind of comment much on something where I don't have the cultural context or know how much because how I understand kind of the behavior of the Chinese government is it is basically, you know, guided by a very different set sets of values and rules in society.
And in that sense, control or, you know, it goes goes very much into this idea of, you know, individual, individualism versus collectivism, where, you know, what is what brings to get greater good for for society as a whole.
And all those regulations which are being imposed in China, I see them very much going towards that where they basically the state sees itself as this idea of, OK, we are our job is to maximize the value or the benefit of our society as a whole.
And crypto in there, I don't see China having a anti-crypto stance or a blockchain stance as long as its citizens try not to use it to circumvent this societal ideas, which are collectivist ideas, which which China, you know, is culturally speaking, a lot more dominant than what we find would find.
For example, you know, in the U.S. probably is on the other side of the spectrum here and you're probably somewhere in between.
And that's why I always try to step back a bit.
Now, that said, probably the rules are quite a bit more clear than anything the European Union or the European legislature is trying to do.
So I am very, very careful commenting any any kind of movements or, you know, developments in that context.
Absolutely fair enough. Absolutely fair enough. And just remind everyone that technically, really, there is no wrong way to run a society.
It's like Johanna says, it's about what's for what people believe is the best for their society and how they've developed over time any number of a thousand variables that lead to a society as we have it today.
So there is no particular wrong way. It's just trying to trying to mix morals and trying to try and align morals with like on the diplomatic scale.
Oh, my goodness. Yeah, geopolitics is fun. So I'm I've notably not asked Frederick, but I think he's going to enjoy the next question more.
Well enough to know that. So Vitalik Buterin has said that developers should tread very carefully when mixing crypto and AI.
It should also be noted that it is Vitalik's birthday today. So throw a hundred in the chat for Vitalik's birthday. Happy birthday, Vitalik. I'm hoping you're having a good day, David.
So he's basically acknowledged that the growing intersection between AI and crypto is kind of something that needs to be approached with caution.
He's noted a shift in Silicon Valley's like focus from Web 3 in the metaverse to AI, like it's just this technological shift like all tools like chat GPT and all these other large language models.
It's one of these things with tech. It's always just chasing the hot thing, I guess.
But some blockchain projects are leveraging AI. I'm sure you've seen an AI project or two within every ecosystem you've been with.
All of them have been very mixed. I would say there are some who are trying to put like a GPT like language model, just make it decentralized, make it open, make it pretty much uncensored.
And these are the kind of things that I think Buterin is kind of warning against, not against, but just caution.
So he's categorized potential AI and blockchain overlaps into four groups. So category one is AI as a player in a game, AI and prediction markets and incentivized by blockchain protocols.
Category two is AI as an interface to the game, aiding users to navigate and understand the crypto world, potentially like enhancing some features like scam detection and crypto wallets.
Category three, AI actually dictating the rules of the game, which is potentially like aiding DAOs and making subjective decisions with a caution to tread very, very carefully on this particular category.
And then number four is AI as the objective of the game. So that envisions blockchain as infrastructure for developing superior AI models.
So I think overall the blog post that I read, it was cautiously optimistic at the end, essentially, not really an opinion either way.
So I'd love to get your guys opinions on where you think AI stands in the context of web three, in decentralized especially decentralized models.
And yeah, I'll just leave it there. Maybe we'll reverse it this time. So Johannes.
Sure. I would say I share my opinion here with Vitalik in a sense that AI and blockchain are very much into kind of extremes in a sense that kind of what makes blockchain work is transparency, is that you have predefined rules in smart contracts which cannot be changed and which everyone knows how they are.
Or can at least look them up and they're clearly defined and the same for everyone.
Whereas AI is predefinitioned like the other thing, which is in a sense an algorithm which even a human cannot understand because it's been created through data by statistical models itself.
And those two things are kind of hard to reconcile because of this context. So I agree there and I think that's my personal opinion that this kind of AI hype is what it is.
It's a hype. It's probably, I mean, it does have a lot of merit to it with things what you can do, but blockchain as a special thing or like it has its merits.
But like, I feel remember back in 2017, let's tokenize everything. Everything needs to have a token. Everything needs to be on chain. And now everything needs to have AI.
And there's definitely amazing products out of that, but let's give it a bit more time and let's figure out what is the actual value AI can bring to blockchain.
Yeah, I think that's a very balanced take. So, Fredrik, what do you think about AI on blockchain, decentralized AI, free models? What do you think?
I really enjoy reading Vitalik's posts and I think here I think it's really great that he made these different categories because technology and crypto can be so different and also AI can be so different with many different use cases and approaches and so on.
So, I think these categories really help to distinguish the different cases you have when AI and crypto interact with each other.
And yeah, I think that's especially category four is interesting because in many natural language models or AI models that try to control something or build bigger systems, I think trust or control of the AI system is something that is often missing
or not decentralized enough. And I think their blockchain and crypto is a really good fit to combine it so that these trust and centralization issues can be solved.
But on the other hand, technically, it's often I think also quite complicated to combine these systems because AI often requires a lot of throughput.
If you think, for example, how big the models are and how many requests there are, for example, for GPT now.
And yeah, this is something that I'm not sure how this will play out if it would work much better if the group of blockchains are speeding up and using the knowledge proofs for scaling and so on.
But yeah, the other categories I think are also really interesting. So AI as a player in the game or as an actor on the blockchain.
I think this is something that's already happening a lot with MEV bots, for example, or I also really like the second category, AI as an interface, because I think that usability is still a big problem for using blockchains.
And there I could have to explain it to one user if he's interacting with a suspicious contract or something like this. So I really like this discussion and enjoy reading Derek's opinion.
100%. It's always, always a mind bender when he posts and I absolutely love it. So I think my favorite, not my favorite, but just one that I've seen already implemented, like you say, is the AI as a player in the game.
You've seen a couple of these new Ethereum standards for NFTs. They're an NFT with an abstracted wallet that has some form of AI control on it that does certain things just like a GPT agent or whatever.
There was a couple of NFTs in the past year that have launched like that. And it's interesting to see how they work, but none of them as far as I've seen have actually gained any form of adoption. So it's just interesting to see.
Hoss, what do you think, man, before we crack on?
No, it's hard to follow on that. I mean, I'm not going to get into the technicalities and the infrastructure and all that type of stuff. I guess on the more boring side, I'm more interested in the infrastructure that's being built to essentially validate models, make them accountable,
decentralized indexers, things that add nature. Tempe is a decentralized search engine slash indexer that's currently being built in Cosmos. And it's like the first of its kind where you have a database that isn't being manipulated and controlled by what the central entities want to feed you.
You know, people are like, oh, let's use decentralized search engine. Okay, they're still using Bing or Google or whatever they just choose to use. So kind of defeats the purpose. And why is that important? Well, like, if you have all these data sets, and you're using these models, and, you know, let's just use like a random example, like, say you're like super liberal or super like Republican or something or conservative or whatever.
And you you control you, you create these models that are like super biased, and then those models get like, presented in whatever sort of industry that is, it's not really good, because it's just what you detect, you know, what you build it out to be. So in like, in that way, it could be like dangerous. And no one's really necessarily working on it. There's a couple teams, like tempe is doing it more on like the indexer side and where people can tap into this database and use it in an unbiased way.
Like, even if you're using a search, like the data will come up, it might be like, on Google or something, it might be like the 50th search on that particular topic. But like, who the hell ever does that, right? Like when you search something, you're usually just like getting the first two or three. And that's what you're clicking on for your own research, but you're not getting maybe, maybe the 50th one down the line was actually the best one or the most unbiased or down the middle, so to speak. So I'm like, I'm interested in that. And
it was like a ride chain, because they're building out kind of like how to audit smart contracts with AI models and like doing all kind of like cool things with AI, where, you know, they can essentially like, if it's an image, it can determine like, this is the original image of this particular painting or something like they're doing stuff like that. So that kind of stuff, interest is, you know,
that I love, I love being able to determine provenance of art. That's, that's great.
Yeah, so like, that stuff is kind of interesting to me, because like, AI can be just like the internet, right? Like the internet can be used in a really bad way. But also, like, if you use technology, the right way, and not just sit there and, you know, shitpost and like cause drama and fight people and argue with every single random stranger, because you're just like a miserable person. But like, in the fact that you use technology to grow your mind and absorb all this data and knowledge and information, you're actually improving yourself as a human.
And like, so in that sense, like, I think AI is going to be able to do that same thing. Can it be utilized in a harmful way? Absolutely. I would feel, I would feel, you know, highly positive about that. But we need to build models and chains and, and applications that kind of, like the whole sole purposes of it is to kind of be boring, but like, actually hold these models accountable, like, hey, yeah, this model, they're using this data set, this data set, that data set, it's actually like 67% accurate, it's not 100%.
Like, determine from that, like, do they want to use these model sets? Or like, does the government say like, look, you can't use that, because this data is just not, it's corrupted, it's not good, you know, so
it's got to be user choice, and it's got to be free, it's got to be open, but the moral implications are difficult. I really want to jump on to the the real world assets shit, because like, I think I feel like sometimes this happens when we get, when we get like a really interesting news topic, it just ends up taking up half the space. And I'm really sorry, guys. But I just want to move along. Because on no little part, because we have two new speakers on the stage,
firstly, we have, we have ontology on stage. Humpty, who is an absolutely fantastic guy. So I don't know if you just want to give a little introduction, Humpty. And we'll, we'll crack, crack, crack, go on with tricks.
Yeah, Jim, everybody, can you hear me fine?
Can hear you just fine. Yeah.
Amazing. Yeah, hey, everybody. How are we all doing? Sorry, popped in here a little late. Great to be up here with so many friends and people that I've chatted with for a long time, you know, on web three and crypto stuff. A little introduction to ontology, they're developing decentralized identity tools.
One of my favorites in particular will be Onto wallet. So my opinion, one of the easiest ways to create your decentralized identity and start using it with another protocol they built called orange protocol, which is which is a credentialing or a reputation protocol.
Yeah, I'm excited to be up here. A little bit about myself, I guess I've been in this space since 2016 building peeping in the windows to see what everybody is building. And that's kind of what I'm here for to learn. So happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
We're happy to have you, man. We're really happy to have you even if you do like to peep. In any case, what about trigs, man? How you doing? Missed you, man.
Hey, glad to be back. Sorry, I missed last week. It was like the worst part of my week was missing this space. But exciting to be back. So thanks for thanks for having me and continuing to host great spaces. Looking forward to jumping into this topic.
Of course, man, of course. In fact, I think we're going to be doing that right now.
There is another news topic, but I'll just tell you right now. So the SEC is likely to approve an Ethereum ETF on May 23 by the Standard Chartered Bank. No one in the world can tell you when things are going to happen. Don't trust anyone, everyone, okay?
Just please don't trust anyone when anyone comes up with this stuff. Whoever it comes from, whether it's from banks, whether it's from governments, whether it's just from your guy down the street, don't trust them. Do your own research, all that jazz.
Okay, everyone. So if you could do me a very big favor, everyone, jump into that little purple pill down the bottom right hand side of your screen.
Give us a like and a read here on the space because there is value here. There are people on this stage who know their stuff and who can teach. You can provide value to you. So give them a like, give them a follow, and give this space a like and a follow.
Have any questions? Jump them in the comments. And if you'd like to join us on stage, please request a speak.
Okay, everyone. So we're going to jump on with real world assets today. We're going to be trying to discuss how we actually bring the real world on chain, as the title suggests.
So the first thing I kind of want to determine and define what is a real world asset. I don't want to be the one monologuing here. I would love someone else to take it.
I think, Johannes, you said you had quite a lot of experience here. Maybe you can help us out with this one.
I mean, you know, the definition of RWA can be very wide. I mean, technically speaking, you would say the stablecoin is also an RWI.
But when you talk about it in a more specific sense, you would typically talk about taking certain assets which exist in the real world outside of crypto and bring them into that decentralized blockchain space in some form or another.
There's a lot of talk and ideas going on on real estate with this idea of making real estate more liquid.
I mean, this is something which I'm very happy to discuss and have quite strong opinions on as well.
And on the other side, tokenization of shares, right, where you very quickly get into this this minefield of national or local regulation versus this permissionless blockchain environment, which is global from the get-go, because anyone can access it.
It's a topic which is fascinating, I think, from various fields. I mean, from legal, from financial engineering. How do you make the whole thing liquid?
Sorry, all the way to technical. How do you implement this efficiently? To have a permissionless while also being able to comply with those locally needed legal requirements you have.
Absolutely brilliant. And so I guess the benefits here really are the liquidity of these assets, like the ease of trading, like these assets in the real world.
That's exactly where I would challenge you, right? That is what I meant. Let's take this real estate example.
Why would a house, you know, non-fungible assets in that sense, why would a house which doesn't really have a market price, it's very hard to kind of find a fair value for it in the real world.
Why would it suddenly become liquid if it's on chain? Why would it suddenly have more liquidity? There's potentially more buyers, but you still don't have a way on how to efficiently price it because it is a fungible asset.
Sorry, it's a non-fungible asset in that sense. So you can argue, okay, it widens up kind of the client base. Fair enough.
But then again, the big volume or the majority of the volumes which you find in there typically are in professional players, banks, investment funds, institutional investors.
And they already have quite deficient centralized systems and they are often, you know, either it's kind of a local asset, talking about real estate, right?
Or it is a global asset which has such a big volume that you already have the liquidity in there. So that doesn't really count. So that's why I'm a bit critical of that one specific thing where you say that RWAs, the benefits is it brings volumes and it brings liquidity.
I couldn't agree more. From what you've just said, Yogi, you're quite right. So it depends highly on what the asset actually is, whether there's benefit or not. I mean, the benefits of Web3 are essentially when you boil it down, decentralization being like censorship resistance and ownership.
And if it doesn't improve one of those two things with it, then it doesn't help. I think C. Hoss has his hand up. He would love to ask a question, I guess.
One second, I want to add one more thing. There's a third thing, which is composability. What Web3 brings, and that is a big, sorry, Hoss, I'm just giving you the stage in a second here, is that it allows you to programmatically have those assets be part of something else.
It is completely composable. If once an asset is on chain, you can build amazing things with it because it just works in every context.
You don't have to have a relationship with the bank. It just works. But yeah, please, Hoss.
No, so like I was just going to add, because I know a lot about kind of RWAs, in a sense, and like how there's so much red tape on assets and there's trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars all over the world, just in physical assets.
And actually, there's a chain in Cosmos. They're like, it's a chain, but they're not like, if you want to call it DGen or crypto friendly, it is a crypto chain. It's an L1 in Cosmos. It's called Provenance.
They have over like $11 billion of TVL, and no one even knows about them because they're awesome. They're just not really engaging in the overall thesis of crypto.
Their main players are, you know, these huge, just bank, just everyone, right? Like one of the biggest, it's like a playground for them.
So like one of the things is what you're saying about real estate is like, say you have a property and you're an American and your property is over in like Costa Rica or something and your property value is like, I don't know, $3 million.
Well, and you want to take a, it's called a Helox loan for anyone out there. It's called Home Equity Line of Credit. Like that shit could take you 7, 10, 12, 14 days to like actually get approved of that loan.
So like you have this value here that's worth $3 million and it takes weeks to actually get money against it.
So like it just opens up flexibility for like people that have a lot of money under management and assets under management.
And it's not necessarily like, hey, I'm going to sell my home on, on chain. It's more about like, I have these assets and I want to get, I want to get money right now or like within a day as opposed to like, I need, I need to like, you know, move stuff around.
It's going to take me two weeks, 17 days of just all this bullshit. And like, that's what this really is all about.
And it's not necessarily about like, I'm trying to sell my home on chain. It's more about like taking your real assets that you have. And there's, there's like literally like hundreds of trillions of dollars of assets.
Like every most, most value in this world is by an asset, not by how much stock you own or how much money is in your bank account. It's about physical items.
And that's what, in my opinion, crypto and blockchain opens up is like, just like the green lights in less, less intermediators and less bullshit that you have to deal with and conversions and all this currency and that currency.
It's just like, okay, we know who you are. You're KYC. You're, you're legit. This is what you have, you know, and the proper authorities, whether that's like governments or banks or whomever, like someone could, yeah, verify that like, yep.
Okay. And then here's your money. Here you go. Have a good day. And like, obviously with liquidity with like USDC and stablecoins and all that, like that opens up, you know, just the floodgates.
It's like, it's like a playground for just like, you want to call him elitist or whomever. Like, that's just what it's for, really. It's not necessarily for Joe, Joe down the street that owns, he doesn't even own his home.
He's still on a 30 year mortgage or whatever. Like that's, you know, maybe he can benefit somehow, but really it's about the people that have money. That's what that's for, is RWAs in our opinion.
I think, I think what we're going to do with this one, guys, because it's such a freaking interesting subject. Ontology, I'd love you to go next.
I just want to say that hell, but we don't raise hands. What we'll do is we'll just respect each other. We'll have a free flowing conversation and I'll control the conversation if I need to.
Because I think that will work better in this, in this regard, because you guys are all such fantastic guests with a lot of knowledge to share. And I don't really want to throttle you too much.
So what the people down below, the listeners, the people who are going to like and retweet this space right now want to hear is basically what are the benefits of having real world assets?
Why do we need them? And where are we currently in the adoption curve of real world assets? And where are we going? So those are the kind of questions we want to answer. Ontology, can you just give your take? I'd love to hear it.
Yeah, thanks. So I was actually going to respond to something that was being said, but I definitely can happily pivot that in a moment.
But you know, one of the things that was being said was in terms of the time that something takes in order to be able to close on a loan, for instance, to be able to, you know, kind of get money on liquid or equity or ownership stake that someone has.
There's, there are some checks and balances that go into just just going through that process that verifies ownership that verifies, you know, the value of something and, etc, etc.
I'm wondering, as the person who went prior to me was talking about how RWAs solve for that problem, should we also be concerned then for, you know, kind of false claims made on properties and value on that property too?
So considering that RWA facilitates this much more simply, you know, is that something we should be considering? Is that something that has been considered in any of these protocols that have been developed for exchanging these assets?
I think personally, this is just me. I haven't done a lot of research on all the players out there. But like, I think that's going to be heavily regulated.
I think there's all these people that are working on RWAs. They're going to have a rude awakening. Like, you're going to have to be so compliant. Like, that's what I was telling you about this providence. No one knows about them.
But it's literally an L1 in Cosmos that has like $11 billion of TVL. And the reason why is like, they don't have a token. They don't have any of that stuff. It's like, they, I think they have a token, but it's not for purchase.
Like, what it is, is like for people that want to build or deploy different things or smart contracts on their chain. Like, they have like a grant fund. But like, as a public person, you can't just like buy their token or whatever.
So, I don't know, like, I honestly think that space is like, it's like one of those words, like, where everyone's like, oh, RWAs, let me just start working on it and build things for it. And I don't know, like, I just think it's going to be like, just kind of a central entity, you know, like this providence.
Like, I'm sure, like, I know I had a conversation with them a long time ago, it was like a year and a half ago, everyone that's in their team and their roster is legit, like bankers, people used to work for like the SEC, just like, like, you know what I mean?
Like, these aren't just like, oh, yeah, I'm a crypto guy. Like, it's none of that shit. It's like, legit, you know, I'm sure they have devs that are building their stuff, but like, everyone pulling the strings are like, heavily centralized people that have been in that industry for, you know, 20, 30 years and all that.
So that's, in my opinion, I think that space is going to be more for them, like the super regulated stuff. And then everyone else, maybe you're doing RWAs and you're like, oh, I got this, I got this fine wine or like this, you know, painting or whatever, maybe you could do shit like that.
But I think the real serious stuff is going to be left to them. And I don't think we have any say in it, to be honest with you.
Yeah, I agree with you on the fact that it's going to be a lot of like centralization. And there's definitely going to be barriers to entry with it, you know, it's not going to be a free for all when you start dealing with RWAs.
And I think a really great example to learn from is to look at the largest RWAs that are already currently on chain, and that is fiat currencies, like USDC, USDT, those are RWAs, those are real world assets that have been tokenized.
And so everything that all the speakers have been saying, you know, is true, because you can observe it. And with those tokens, you know, USDC is so powerful, because it's composable real world money that can be integrated into any protocol.
And it's, you know, USDC is becoming USDT and USDC are probably the two most used crypto products on the market right now. And I don't think any other RWAs are going to be any different.
And the concerns with USDC is and USDT both is the centralization, you know, USDT is maybe a little bit more of a decentralized kind of process, but they still, you know, are very heavily centralized, and everything flows through a small group of people who make all the decisions and hold all the cards too.
I mean, there's some information asynchrony with USDT that, you know, we just don't have access to all the details. And same with USDC, you know, it goes through circle. And, you know, it's basically whatever they say goes.
And all these products that build off of USDC are beholden to the decisions that circle makes about the usage of USDC.
So I definitely agree with your point on that. And I think that to, you know, ontology's question about that and perspective, I think we can kind of observe the function, you know, of these existing RWAs to kind of inform how the process is going to go moving forward.
But I think that centralization around that, like that step that transitions from the real world to the tokenization, there's like a validation step in there that becomes extremely important.
And the people who are operating in that step, it's kind of like the sequencers for L2s, right? Like sequencers are these really centralized groups of people who basically are responsible for making sure that everything that happens on that L2 is valid.
And for RWAs, it's going to be exactly the same. And like Haas said, these people who are doing this validation step are going to be the regulators, the banks, the industry experts, the people who know the RWA complexities the most are going to be the people that are responsible for validating that step.
A great example of this is a project called Landex, where they are trying to build an RWA platform around agricultural commodities.
And so they are creating like a loan platform for farmers to be able to get loans from, you know, anybody who's investing in crypto, and they put up for collateral the future produce of their farms.
And so the people who are providing these loans are getting like a revenue share basically from the farmers after the farmer, you know, harvest their crop and sells it, they owe a percentage of it to this, the project.
And they literally call them validators. There's this step in the process for the Landex whole, like, tokenomic thing to work, where there are these validators who are responsible for researching the farms, performing land analysis to determine the potential productivity of the land,
and create this like body of analysis that informs the entire community of the Landex investors as to whether or not these farms are actually viable, you know, real world asset investments to make and are going to produce returns.
And so the entire system of Landex hinges on the quality of work that this small group of people are doing to validate that real world asset and its viability on shame. So I guess, you know, that's...
And you know, what is another very interesting point here, Trix, is, you know, what are their incentives? Are they aligned? Do they have the proper incentives to create high quality work? Or are there incentives that, you know, for example, incentivize them to create certain types of, you know, results or reports to increase their personal, you know, value to get out of that?
So from a kind of game theoretical and behavioral perspective, all those men in the middle or kind of somewhat centralized arbitrars or arbitrars, I think is the proper term in English, is so fascinating to me.
100%. That's a very, like this centralization issue that comes along with tokenizing real world assets is quite, it seems very difficult to overcome until you have quite a bit more infrastructure, I guess, on chain.
Like you need rather more abilities to be identified, but while being identified, also maintain your privacy, things like that, just stuff that allows you to do everything you could do in real life, but also do it on chain is kind of what's required here in order for you to interact with the real world while maintaining your privacy.
Your rights on chain. I love Frederick. I don't know if maybe you could perhaps describe Galactica's guardians within the context of this conversation.
Yeah, sure. So, guardians on Galactica are a real world entity that onboard personal information or certify and ordered data from the reward, like, for example, that I have completed a KVC and to issue a hash on chain.
The zero knowledge certificate for having completed KVC so that it can be used on chain. So in this context, I think that these guardians on Galactica play a similar role to what we discussed about real world assets and the actors that play the middleman to audit that the real world assets are actually authentic.
What I also want to mention here is that on Galactica, we try to not focus on one guardian alone. So Galactica itself is not the guardian, and it's also not the single authority onboarding data.
And therefore, what we try to achieve is a more decentralized systems where there are multiple guardians, which later can also have different reputation for them.
So that this onboarding process of real world information onto the Galactica blockchain also gets more decentralized and that people then can distinguish and not give the guardians to high power.
Yeah, perfect, Frederick. Thank you. I just wanted to just give people some information on how we're tackling it from our side, and that was absolutely flawless.
So I guess I'll carry this on just by asking another question, because I'd like to kind of figure out along these exact lines, why is it taking so long to get a viable implementation of real world assets of a more complex type into Web3?
We've got stablecoins, obviously, we've got various methods of getting them in here. But why is it taking so long to get something that's like, adoptable in here? And what have actually been the stumbling block so far?
Perhaps. Let's go back to Johannes.
You called me your left foot here a bit.
If anyone else wants to speak, that's fine too.
Oh, sorry, Frederick, go ahead. Yeah.
Yeah, no worries. So I think one of these challenges that has to be overcome to enable real world assets on blockchains in a larger scale is privacy.
So I don't want to onboard all of my real world data, what assets I own and so on to the blockchain, because I might have privacy concerns that people can track me and then people can see on the public blockchain what I'm doing and they can find me and so on.
So I think, therefore, it's really important that we now have this zero-knowledge technology that actually gives us tools to preserve the privacy and still be able to argue about the real world assets or the data that is onboarded on-chain.
I have absolutely no doubt that Ontology Humpty, I'm sure you guys are tackling in this some way. I'd love to hear your approach.
Yeah, thanks. You know, one of the things that came to mind as MeStar was talking right now was the, I guess it's twofold.
One, previously during the beginning of this conversation, we were talking about KYC and needing to know the people that are participating, these actors in this space, and now talking about the privacy of our data.
You know, traceability on the blockchain.
Firstly, one of the things that I appreciate about these spaces and just educational content like this is that hopefully it helps to clarify to people who are new or are still learning kind of what is the blockchain.
Is that as opposed to what's normally written about blockchain, it's not private by default. It's actually quite the opposite. There's a lot of transparency and anonymity, while pseudonymity is definitely something that is possible, anonymity is not.
You can kind of track a wallet, see what transactions they're doing, et cetera, et cetera.
And from my understanding, there are organizations that exist. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these are government organizations that can actually track the real world identity of an individual back to a wallet.
So please be aware of that.
So when we talk about KYC, I think that there is importance in trying to figure out how it's going to be applied, kind of the tools that are at our disposal today in terms of being able to verify our real world identity and be able to use that composably across the ecosystem without necessarily revealing what's going on.
Too much about ourselves unnecessarily and repeatedly. And so, you know, for this, and this is something that obviously Galactica does as well, not just ontology. There's quite a few different projects that are busy kind of developing these tools is, you know, working with decentralized identifiers, leveraging zero knowledge KYC to be able to verify one's identity and then reuse that without, like I said, revealing
personal identifiable information such as our birthdays and our real names and everything to every single application that queries who we are on the blockchain.
But still being able to satisfy KYC requirements that are necessary for financial purposes, trading, and for governmental or, you know, national purposes.
So I think that, you know, there are a few examples of how we can go about that. And then certainly when it comes to being able to operate or run private transactions, I think, you know, this space of zero knowledge proofs is hugely still under explored, in my opinion.
And it's something that I do see, though, tons of attention being given to in terms of being able to allow people to transact a little bit more privately in this space, because I think one of the reasons, just to kind of piggyback on what was just being said, why there is probably a, not a lack of adoption, but maybe very slow progress towards adoption or usage of PWAs is that everything is visible.
Nothing is private. And perhaps there's a level of privacy that is desired when we are trading high value objects in this space without necessarily having to give away who we are to anyone who doesn't necessarily need to be having that information.
So I just thought I'd kind of hopefully add a little bit of color or, you know, a little bit more surface area to that conversation that we were having on identity and privacy on chain.
I really appreciate Humpty, really do. In fact, for anyone who's like not fully aware or unaware completely, or just wants to try and figure out these things about zero knowledge and the kind of kind of technology it is, what it does, what it can do.
I've just pinned to the top zero knowledge podcast. This is something that I've listened to quite regularly for a long time now.
They do try and attack this quite complex, sometimes like intimidating technology from a very like learner-esque standpoint.
So you can teach yourself with this, as long as you select the right episodes, you can kind of teach yourself the basics and understand it in a lot of depth if you really want to.
So check them out if you're interested in learning about CK. So yeah, go on, please.
One question which I basically want to ask you, because we're all kind of coming from different backgrounds and different geographic locations as well, is what do you guys think, how much does the local regulatory environment influence the adoption of RWAs?
I mean, from a Swiss perspective, Switzerland has the legal framework in place to be able to very, very easily do native on-chain assets.
You know, you can issue shares, for example, on-chain. Now, there's some really, really cool projects, which is, I want to give a shout out to Axanariate, for example, they're building a completely permissionless system to tokenize shares.
But still, adoption is very, very slow. And I think this is partially due to the fact that this is just Switzerland, and it's very much, in a sense, restricted to the local market not to buy those assets, but only Swiss companies can be tokenized.
How do you see that, you know, just from your background, where you guys from? How much does that influence it? And what do you think, how will this change? Because, yeah, I'm just curious to hear everyone's opinion on that.
Yeah, that's a great question. You hit the nail right on the head for what I was going to say earlier. I definitely agree that the whole like privacy, individual user privacy issue is massive, and like a barrier to entry.
But I also think that the regulatory environment is a huge problem. And I think that it creates uncertainty with investors, because they don't know how reliable this, you know, potentially on-chain asset might be.
Because if the regulatory bodies that manage that real world asset in the real world, if they don't support the on-chain activity around that asset, then it's basically like the, you know, the regulatory agencies can rug you anytime they want.
And if you just look back on like going back to my previous comment about looking at existing RWAs that are highly used, USDC is deep pegged multiple times due to regulatory uncertainty.
People have questioned whether or not, you know, circles going to have the rug pulled out from underneath them, and people start dumping their USDC and it deep pegs.
And so I think that really speaks to that problem that you're bringing up about the local regulatory uncertainties. The US is just like this massive kind of like, you know, anchor tied to progress right now, because they're a huge player that sets the stage for a lot of like international regulations.
And they're absolutely just dragging their feet on embracing any of this kind of stuff from a regulatory perspective. And I think that you're right, that's, that's a huge problem.
And I think the other side of it also then, just to, I don't know, other people maybe can have some comments about that, but I'll just drop in my last thought on barriers to adoption.
I think the other side of that is technological uncertainty about crypto, because there are so many rugs, and there's so many smart contract loopholes, and hacks and, and, you know, exploits that happen all the time.
So the idea of like, investing into a, investing your real world asset into tokenization is a little bit frightening for the average user. Because like, imagine if, you know, there's a smart contract exploit, and you lose the control of your house because you tokenized the deed to your house.
And now somebody just like, you know, hacked it out from underneath you. And that's kind of like a boomer, a little bit of a boomer mindset to like, think about it from, from that like fear perspective.
But I think it's realistic, like people are afraid of losing things. And investing in in USDC or USDT, like isn't that scary? Because it's a fungible asset. If you lose some dollars, you can always get more dollars.
But if you lose your real world asset that you pride, then it's gone. There's no, there's no replacement for that. And so it's scarier to tokenize real world assets that are non fungible, because there's more of a risk of permanently losing it.
If something goes wrong. So I think that the blockchain space has to mature as well as the regulatory space in order for it's kind of like a trifecta, we need, we need privacy for the individual.
We need technological security for the tools that we're using. And we need regulatory support to ensure that it all actually, you know, does what we're saying it's going to do.
I would say we need regulation clarity.
As a US citizen, as an American that's building in this space. It's very difficult to take risks when it comes to anything that is token tokenized, because there's obviously a lot of regulation obscurity.
And there are cases that are being our project. So, yeah, I would say either regulation clarity or kind of kind of a bit of an arm's length from development, software development, token development, and, and the regulation body, I think, because otherwise it's
at least here in the US, I wouldn't affect the rest of the world, of course, but I think that would definitely affect the way or what we can build here.
Oh, wow, this is absolutely incredible. Guys, I just want to give the listeners another quick reminder. If you give us a like and retweet on the space, I have no doubt that you are learning something from this space today with with all the quality speakers on at the moment.
So please just show them some love as well. If you can follow the speakers on stage and give them some love, that would be absolutely fantastic. They deserve it.
So I think I would love to know guys, in this case, like where we're questioning the adoption of these things, do you interact with any form of like real world assets yourself, guys, beyond stable coins?
I mean, like something more complex. Do you actually personally interact with any real world assets? I'll throw that out there.
I own some shares on Chain. So, as I said, right in Switzerland, you can actually directly tokenize or well, not tokenize, you can issue shares on Chain.
So, yeah, I do own some shares now. That said, they are completely on Ethereum. However, what the guys had to learn is that 99% of the investors and typical holders of their shares, which are Swiss SMEs,
they cannot, you know, they cannot or do not want to interact with with blockchain directly. So they built this whole somewhat centralized system around around it. So people just have an app and basically, you know, buy their shares on an app with a bank transfer.
And everything blockchain-wise is like just in the background, but that's, yeah, shares. And also my salary is paid in stable coins, but that's a different story.
Hey, are we all? Yeah, no, that's absolutely fantastic. It's good to see someone who's actually like using these things. It's nice to see. Sorry, Ontology, please.
Yeah, no, what I was gonna say, you know, there, I guess for me, aside from, you know, kind of some of the things that we've been discussing. Some of the assets that I personally play around with, I guess would be like collectibles. But, you know, the event tickets is something that I that I've been using more and more that allow me to get some sort of like physical access
to physical spaces. So, you know, going from, I guess, a traditionally centralized, you know, credit based, or, you know, credit card based transaction to hold an asset in this case would be a ticket to say a concert to a conference.
I think events are definitely doing a good job at being able to translate this on chain where there is some way of tracking the provenance of, you know, the source of where this was issued.
And also for the holder and the person that's going to be participating in this event. There is no market, obviously, and I hope there isn't for tickets to events using RWA, because otherwise I think that that would make it a little bit more tricky to participate in those markets.
Again, like I said, as an American citizen, but certainly this the ability to transact on chain and purchase using crypto and then being able to use these assets in the real world. I think it's it's definitely a wonderful step in the right direction.
100%, 100%. Let's just try and get this then. So I'd like to just for everyone on the stage, I think I want to start with Hoss because I want to get his opinion on this. Which real world asset classes then are we actually most looking forward to seeing?
I want like some big alpha, something tangible that might actually get people excited about real world assets. What do you think Hoss?
Yeah, that's nice. That's just so hard to like give you a flat answer on that. I mean, obviously, I just think like actual real estate probably or maybe being able to tokenize like if you and I and some of the people in this space.
We're like, hey, we want to buy a property somewhere and then maybe be like, like he was indicating about like a tokenized share. Maybe people can, depending on what their percent of owning the property, you know, they get a kind of like a revenue share that would be on chain or whatever that would that would be kind of interesting.
Other than that, I mean, everything else, you know, collectibles could be some something unique and maybe maybe like one of ones of something, you know, someone makes, you know, they make something and, you know, artistic or whatever, which we have because of NFTs.
But like, other than that, I mean, I don't really know other like really good use cases that's going to get everyone excited about, you know, I think everything else is just kind of like NFTs and already kind of a thing, you know, revenue sharing.
You could just create a token for that, right? Like that's technically an RWA, like create this game, right? It's decentralized. Everyone can buy the token. No one's technically the owner of it except for the people that buy the token.
And then like everything that happens in that economy, you know, you get a piece of it, so to speak, because every that's the fuel, you know, like, that's the gas. So I mean, other than that, I mean, I don't really know. I'm kind of drawing the blank. What else would ever be?
That's okay, man. No, I kind of wanted to just get your view on that because, you know, you're real like that. You know, I love your opinions on this stuff. How about how about a better question then?
What do you guys think? Do you think that the adoption of real world assets is somewhat dependent on greater adoption and faster adoption of digital identity or self-sovereign identity, whatever you want to call it? Do we need greater adoption of that before we can truly get adoption of real world assets on chain?
Actually, I want to go back to your first question because I like that question. Because I said this to answer to that, and you know, I'll give the stage to someone else who answered the second question you just asked.
So there's I think the really big game changer is going to be the boring stuff in real world assets, right? It's the boring stuff in the background. It's the tokenization of intangible assets, which is going to be enabled because of this composability to just create completely new business models in between.
It might be existing centralized companies or projects which are then able to just make things a lot more efficient. It's really an efficiency use case, but not only efficiency because of this composability, you could just build new things with that.
Decentralized science is a good example of that where you can automate licensing. You can have license and sub-license your research. And then if someone maybe builds product out of that, you can profit automatically out of this without having to have hundreds and hundreds of different contracts written.
So now that's one part. The other part is my personal pet peeve, music. The difference between music and kind of art NFTs is that we're all used to pay or like consume music, but you buy art, you buy an artwork, you know, the NFT, the painting, whatever you own it.
Music, we used to pay for that. We pay for Spotify every month. We used to pay for each consumption to consume that music. And what this leads to is that you can actually build yield-bearing tokens out of that. You can tokenize music, and when you directly connect kind of the streaming income of that, this has a yield.
And because it has a yield, it then can be priced relatively easily. And if it's priced easily, you can have a liquid market so you can start building kind of DeFi based on music rights completely automatically.
And this is just a huge, huge, huge game changer for artists, because they suddenly don't have to, you know, deal with these extremely inefficient ways of how music is financed currently, because you can directly, you know, you have, you can use your tokenized music as collateral, you can get money against that to finance your next album, for example.
That's just a personal pet peeve. But I think the big adoption and game changer is going to come with the boring things, which we're not really going to see, because they're going to be happening in the background between, you know, large players in the economy.
Yeah, look at BitSong, that's B-I-T-S-O-N-G. They're already doing all of that, by the way. Not to belittle your point or anything. I agree with that. I was just thinking of stuff that I don't personally know about. But yeah, BitSong is doing that right now.
You know, you basically, if you're an artist and you're tired of getting screwed over, because you're not getting your value of like your music and, you know, Spotify and all these other entities that are not giving you a fair share or whatever, like BitSong basically just kind of empowers you and you create your own token in your own industry.
They have a deck and everything, but it's pretty fascinating. It's just more about like, how do you kind of publicize that and get that out to everyone, the smaller people?
Because honestly, most musicians, in my opinion, that are really good for the most part, I'm not saying all of them, but are kind of like low key and no one even knows about them. And that's how you have to get that.
But no, I wanted to just say that I agree with that point. That's why I mean, personally, I invest a little bit in BitSong because I think what they're doing is pretty cool.
And funny, you mentioned Spotify here, because if you look at Spotify, Spotify, what they have is users, right? They have this huge volume of people listening music on Spotify. They got there because of that huge library.
But for them, managing the rights, managing a licensing with every single, those different entities is a huge, huge headache.
So the eye dream of a world where you still have Spotify, but Spotify is a user interface and the back end of Spotify is actually decentralized.
We'll see, you know, give me five years.
Yeah, oh, yeah, guys, I think I think I'm teaching. Did you have something to say at some point? I had a feeling you did.
You know, the one thing you'll learn about me if you haven't yet, I always have something to say, but I got to learn when I shut up.
But basically, like just kind of everybody saying things that just really ignite the passion inside of me about, you know, this technology, the opportunities.
And, you know, I was talking about like event tickets and all that earlier. But when people, you know, when the last two speakers were talking about, you know, music and artists.
You're starting to see actually some of the biggest web to platforms recognize that creators need something more beyond obviously giving them their fair share of, you know, value that they've accrued on that platform.
You know, financially, you know, in terms of being able to redeem that value in return. But you're starting to see like YouTube, for instance, create communities for creators.
I think that one of the things that could potentially work really well is to have creators or artists develop some real world asset that represents some value.
You know, in the real world, but that is that is exchangeable, that is collectible, that it is redeemable on chain, you know, and then provide them now some sort of primitive that enables that signal in the noise on chain and then to be able to reward them with maybe something else down the line.
So, you know, I think that that's a really interesting thing, but I've always thought that things that are culturally significant really play out well, you know, in this space.
And I think one of the ones that I saw recently was like Pokemon cards that were getting traded, you know, that had some sort of like real world asset backing them.
I think these are things that are highly liquid, you know, are highly valuable, but are not very liquid because it's very difficult to exchange them or trade them.
So there's a potential there with these more cultural significant artifacts like Pokemon cards that come on chain and then are tradable.
I know another niche group of collectors and traders are people who collect watches, you know, so you can imagine someone that can mint a real world asset representation on chain, you know, for their Daytona, right, for instance, or for their Moonwatch or any other high value item that is much more difficult to exchange, but you want to be able to put this in some open market.
There's a, you know, several different potentials, but I think the things that usually stick would be things that are culturally important and significant to a certain segment of the community.
Absolutely beautiful. Yeah. Oh my goodness. I've still got my Pokemon cards in my loft. I need to find those. Anyway, so perhaps Frederick or Triggs, I don't know if you guys have an answer for this one. If you want to jump in, if you don't, that's absolutely fine.
Kill the use cases, something adoptable. Do you have anything for us?
Yeah, I think there are a lot of use cases. I guess the most exciting ones I cannot even imagine right now, but I think that we brought assets and the composability we already talked about.
Opens a lot of new business opportunity for new use cases on crypto. And yeah, maybe also coming back to your second question about the ID.
This is a self-sovereign ID, getting important for rework assets on chain is I think a big one because with all the regulatory challenges we have for bringing rework assets on chain, I think that the identity solutions are kind of required to actually comply to those regulations.
And this is also what we are trying to tackle on Galactica and what I think is probably a requirement to build big use cases with rework assets on chain.
I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I think what is the most valuable real world asset you can put on chain? It's obvious it's you. It's you. It's your identity, your reputation yourself. There is nothing more important in the real world that you could put on chain.
And that's, I think, like I say, I truly do believe that that is required. In some form or fashion, you need the ability to represent yourself accurately on chain while retaining your rights, like your right to privacy and your standard human rights that are required in order to operate in the digital space.
If you can do all these things and you can represent yourself properly, I think we'll get more adoption of real world assets just as a byproduct.
So I think this is a really good spot to just start winding down, guys. If anyone has anything specific to add now, I'd love you to just raise your hand because I'm just going to start winding down.
If you want to add a final point or something, just raise your hand and we'll get to it in the outro. But I've absolutely adored this space, guys.
I think Johannes, Humpty, Triggs, Frederick, Hoss, you guys have been absolutely freaking fantastic today. It's been a very enlightening space, very much enjoyed it.
So there's been a couple of questions, guys, on the AMA channel in the Discord. So if you guys would like to find out more about what Galactica is doing, you just have to follow our profile up top here and jump on the Discord.
That is the primary hub for everything Galactica. It's where you can interact. It's where you can earn your Galactica network citizenship and you can earn all the good, easy rewards and everything without having to pay a cent.
This is all based on reputation currently, of course. So it's all about what you do. The effort you put in is the reward you get out. So just check it out on the Discord there.
So with the AMA channel, we've got a couple. Let's have a little look here. So what is the next huge step for Galactica now from Nikko? The next huge step will be our testnet for sure, for sure.
We will be finalizing a day on that pretty soon, I think. So just look out for the testnet stuff. We're currently in late stage DevNet, so you can also check that out if you want to get a bit further in the campaigns that we're running right now.
So we've also got, how should we use the MetaMask flask or the normal MetaMask? Is that enough for DevNet? Yes, that is enough for DevNet now. So you can use the standard MetaMask now to access our DevNet.
We used to have to use the development version, but now our snap has been officially approved. You can actually see the post in the JumboTron up top. One of the first ones are posted.
You can now use the standard version of MetaMask to get on our DevNet, which is fantastic.
Okay, what are the tasks to become a member of the circle and the server dia? Those are not available. Just check, guys. We are working on the reward system for getting up that high and getting like really high level citizenships.
So just keep in the loop for that one. And in the current Cosmos ecosystem or upcoming projects, what will be the synergies with Galactica Network?
The big one, I think, will be the IBC, because obviously, Galactica Network is a hub for identity and reputation. We want to be able to export our reputation, become like a source of trust on chain, while again, like I mentioned earlier, maintaining your rights, your right to privacy.
So I think that would be the big one is the interoperability of reputation, as well as reputation and identity.
Okay, I think that's pretty much everything from the questions. So I think what we'll do is we'll just run through the speaker panel and see what's what. So, Triggs, do you have any final words, my friend?
No real specific thoughts. Just a great conversation. Really appreciate all of the speakers and their perspectives. This was a super interesting topic for me.
I love that the concept of real assets and getting other people's perspective just really helps round out my own view of it because it's such a hard to understand topic, you know, there's so much uncertainty around it.
And so I think just talking about it and sharing ideas with people, it really helps formulate some sort of thesis, you know, for the individual to have a level of expectation of what's coming.
And a way to like contextualize things when you hear about it because you have to be careful in this space, you know, there's all kinds of projects who are going to be using RWAs as a buzzword to try to catch your attention.
And you have to know the questions to ask with these projects like, okay, what's the centralized step that is required to transition this from the real world to the blockchain?
And who's in charge of that? Where's the authority structure? You know, all those kinds of things.
So having these well-rounded conversations, I think, really helps empower people to make good decisions as they, you know, navigate this experimental space.
Absolutely beautifully said, and I couldn't agree more. Guys, we do attempt to educate in this space. Like I say, we are hosting this from the galactic.com account.
Of course, this is the protocol that we're building, but we are attempting to build basically a neutral and friendly space here where anyone can come up, say anything from just no holds barred, but in a very respectful manner.
So I think that's the best way of getting education out there and getting value to the listeners.
I don't want to be up here shilling at all. I just like to remind you that we exist, you know.
Okay. So maybe we'll go to Frederick in the last words, mate.
Yeah. So thanks, everyone. I think it was a really great discussion. And yeah, I would love to continue this question on real assets another time, because I think there's a lot more to discuss and as we are progressing with the technology and new use cases are invented, I think there's a lot more on this topic in the future.
100%. I feel like we could go for a three hour space on this one quite easily, but we'd need to need to do some proper scheduling with that.
Just a reminder for the listeners actually who have stayed this long and listen to us and and gain some value from the space. Check out the pin tweet and the comments I've put in a link that will let you claim a reputation credit.
This is from our friends over at creds.xyz. It's decentralized. It's safe and secure. It's just a way for us to give you something over a piece of reputation for listening and learning on our space.
So check that link out if you want to claim that.
Let's go to Johannes. Johannes, mate. Thank you so much for coming, man. I really appreciate coming.
Thank you so much for having me and and thank you so much for this super interesting conversation.
You know, I have to plug narrative quickly here and actually it goes back to what I think was very just said before that, you know, what was it about this question of, you know, what is the centralized part of your RWA?
And this is actually one of the things which we had narrative or are building, right? We're building plumbing for Web 3 with this goal and I mentioned the beginning to make Web 3 suck less.
So I mean, I hope to be able to play a small role in making RWA's better.
And if you want to learn more about also we do, you know, hit me up. Happy to do so.
And, you know, if you happen to be in Denver, happy to have coffee with any of you really just, you know, drop me a message.
And I am always excited to meet people in real life and just, you know, just because there's people or personalities we find in this space are so fascinating and so diverse.
So really, really, you know, looking forward to that.
100 percent, 100 percent. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the space.
I don't know if there's any one of us going to Denver in recent times, but I think Hoss is our resident American for sure.
Humpty Humpty, it's been absolutely fantastic. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate coming again, mate.
If you want to just lead off.
Yeah, thanks so much for the invitation.
It's been a pleasure. I will be in Denver and I am working on setting up a DID happy hour.
So definitely open to the Galactica community and everybody else that's going to be there and wants to join.
The goal is to do it in collaboration with the data summit that's happening on May 1st.
So stay tuned. You can follow the ontology account. You can follow my personal account, which is also in the audience.
I'll share more information, but yeah, definitely would love to have the Galactica community there as well.
No doubt, man. No doubt. I appreciate that. Now, I think the best way, guys, for any for Johannes or Humpty,
if you want something to persist with the space, maybe you can link it in the comments.
Like I find a pitting stuff at the top that just gets disappeared with the space when it ends.
So if you put it on in the comments below, then, you know, we get like, you know, a hundred plus at least resistance.
So, you know, when people hear that, they'll jump down in the comments and see it.
Definitely worth doing. And we've got Hoss who has disconnected.
Oh, no, we've lost him. That's OK. That's OK. We can deal with it.
Now he was just going to say goodbye anyway. We all love Hoss. Follow Hoss, please.
He's an absolutely fantastic guy, always spreading positivity, spreading education.
There's nothing really a bad thing you can say about him. So please give him a follow.
OK, everyone. Well, thank you very much for your questions, everybody. Thank you very much to our speakers.
Make sure you check out their profiles. Check the pinned tweets if you wish to.
Check the comments where I've just directed people to put some stuff.
Join us on Discord for Galactica.com if you have any interest in that.
Because, you know, in the Discord you can earn your collective network citizenship, which could well be like the most most important thing you do this year.
I'll leave out of that. So thank you very much, guys.
Take note that this is one of this is a space that we run every week.
Same time. So twenty one hundred hours UTC on a Wednesday.
Please come and join us. We love having you here. We love spreading the education.
OK, guys, well, thank you very much. We will see you next week on the next episode of Into the Cyberstate.
Thank you very much, everyone, for joining us. See you soon.