Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
How To Get More Views Than Everyone Else
Recorded: March 18, 2026 Duration: 1:05:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
I had a bad habit
Of missing lovers past
My brother used to call it
Eating out of the trash
It's never gonna last
I thought my house was haunted
I used to live with ghosts
And all the perfect couples
Said when you know you know
And when you don't you don't
And all of the foes and all of the friends
They'll see it before, they'll see it again
Life is a song, It ends when it ends
I was wrong
But my mama told me
It's alright
You were dancing
Through the lightning strikes
Sleep is in the
Arctic's night
But now the sky is
Overlight
Oh my lord Never made no one like you But now the sky is open right, oh ah ah ah ah
Oh my lord, never made no one like you before
You had to make your arms sunshine
But now the sky is open right, oh ah ah ah ah ah
You couldn't understand it
Why you felt alone
You were in it for real
She was in her phone
And you were just opposed
And don't we try to love, love
We give it all we got
We finally light the table
And what a simple thought
You're starving till you're not
All of the foes and all of the friends
Messed up before, they'll mess up again
Life is a song, it ends when it ends
You move on
And that's when I told you
It's alright, you were dancing through the lightning strikes
Sleeping in the honest night
But now the sky is all up and alight
Oh my lord, never, oh Oh, my lord
Never met no one like you
Isn't that like such a tune?
Hydrate
Dude, it's such a banger
You should have seen me
I've been dancing and singing to myself
For the entirety of the intro
I thought that could go either way.
You know, I was like thinking, oh, right,
we've got to play like one of my guests' favourite artists
as an intro tune this week.
And I was like, whoa, what are we going to drop?
Am I going to like, I need to pick something that shows
that I maybe like have a little bit more insight
than the average, you know, Taylor Swift listener.
And I just went with a single because I was like,
if I like make it really super deep it might be a bit awkward so yeah that's what
we landed on i mean listen i love the whole range of taylor swift like i tell people all the time
i'm like that woman has like transformed my frontal lobe it is not the same so you could have played like some sad depressing songs off of tortured
poets department and i also would have been but yeah that's a banger we love over life
i've uh my missus is a huge swifty as you know so i um i went to the rep Tour. I was at the Ares Tour. I've earned my stripes, man.
I've earned my stripes.
So I want to get this posted out and tweeted as well.
Is X still bugging for you if you manage to get something in
so people know you're here and talking to us?
I was able to retweet on the phone,
and then it's like bugging in and out.
So hopefully the phone works, and then, you know,
I'll obviously go click. we'll let people do the
thing well welcome jen to this which feels so long overdue how long have i been sitting here to come
and do this now it's just never the stars have never aligned have they um since like last year
i think we've been talking about it yeah yeah yeah so the the we titled this one like i've
gone as clickbait as I possibly can with how to
get more views than everyone else.
And it's so funny that Twitter's bugging as we're live and we're probably going to get
less views than we've had.
So if I would have known that that was going to be the title, I would have like gone to
somewhere with a bathtub, set up the stream.
Like I would have, you should have told me in advance.
Can you give some context into what you mean there?
Cause there's a little bit of an inside joke.
Cause that will also help me like introduce who you are for our audience that don't know your particular skillset.
What is the, what is this bathtub that you speak of?
So I occasionally make breakdown videos and educational content around what I think are like really tough concepts.
And I try to break it down to not quite normie level, but like people who are in crypto who are super excited about crypto, but like still don't fully understand the technical intricacies.
about crypto, but like still don't fully understand the technical intricacies. And last year, I like
took a bit of a hiatus after I had been covering one ecosystem that shall not be named. And then
I obviously stumbled upon Hyperliquid, fell in love. And I was like, I need a full rebrand. And
I thought, you know, the best way to do this was to try to generate as many
eyeballs as possible. So my first video on hyperliquid I made in a bathtub, which was a
play off of the Wolf of Wall Street, but also this idea that like, bathtub, water, liquidity,
hyperliquid. Yep. And I was straight up in the bath and um my mom actually helped me
set it up all right okay beyond the scenes insight there so like you are being very modest there as
well so the reason that we've titled this uh that way is because as i say jen's like deep in hyper
liquid as we all are it's like literally the only open position i have in my part at the
minute and now's a good time to be talking about hype so we're going to be talking about that we've
had a little bit of relief in the past like technically week or so i have no idea whether
this means that we're out of the woods yet um but i'm not convinced. However, I am convinced in the long-term strength of hype as an asset
and hyperliquid in its entirety.
And I also think it's a really good time to do this.
And Josh, if he was here, he was our head of production,
would be shouting at me that I'm only just now basically getting
into the hook and the crux of the video intro.
For those that watch it after the fact, he was like,
the title needs to immediately follow.
But we are going to talk about the whole fascination
and like fad at the minute with like what new media is
and video and like kind of working out how to,
essentially we create an identity
and create stuff that is good online and travels well,
because I think there's probably a lot of people
who don't maybe know like even how to start
with that kind of thing. And Jen is the master of that I think there's probably a lot of people who don't maybe know like even how to start with
that kind of thing. And Jen is the master of that and kind of runs a sort of, I guess,
agency along the side that she's very coy about, but is also super successful. So I'm hoping we
can get some insight and just kind of a little bit of a riff on some of the things that you might
need to know if you're looking at getting into more of that from a
career point of view in the ever growing AI encroaching
landscape because like as long as you have a face and a body,
maybe you'll be saved from the AI job. Yeah, and we have we
already had a comment and someone's like replied to the
title how to get more views mentioned harry potter sonic obama 10 in you and watch people come in confused intrigued loving and hate
filling your content whatever medium that's actually bang on but i don't think we're going
to talk about memes today yukas unfortunately you know not one of the things that i've noticed
and i feel like it's not with all content but particularly like crypto
content and I see it a lot in gaming too like people will always be like how to get more views
just be a girl but it's like if you go through some of my most watched videos even incredibly
well-researched ones like people will just hate on the fact
that I'm a girl. So I always thought that that was funny. Yeah.
I also think that's an unfortunate symptom and byproduct of CT and anonymous creepy humans
on the internet. Yeah. I mean, how much can you say about that really like well yeah we
were laughing the other week someone someone accused me of like balding because i usually
wear a cap and they were like alex hasn't had his cap off in a while and i'm kidding he was joking
i think i think we know the guy he's like part of our community but it's funny isn't it like being
vulnerable online and like people seeing your face and shit.
There's like an odd, and even though we exist in this like tiny little microcosm,
but the microcosm is like, I sometimes do think like, as you say,
like some of the hate that I see towards like female creators
and that whole thing feels a little bit intense.
I don't envy you guys with that.
I mean, I think once you realize that you don't really need to give a shit about what
random people on the internet say about you, and then you realize like, oh, it's kind of
that whole like, you know what?
All engagement is good engagement in this case.
Yeah.
No one does everything.
Yeah, that comment just made me think of that.
So we don't have to
derail there we're not gonna derail yeah right so let's talk about hype first um so as we as we speak
i mean it's up what like 12.5 percent in the last week to like it's just over 41 dollars now um
you have been tweeting actually for since throughout like January, February, March
I feel like I've kind of had you on
on a marker as well of like
I've just sort of you relentlessly
like just buying, buying, buying
like from like sub 29 downwards
and then I think you like posted a
you know a victory lap tweet the other day
and said like everything sub 25 dollars
was free hype and I was like
fair fucks Jen like tell them how it is but what what do you think about it all at the minute
i mean when we were uh and i i'm kind of joking a little bit i don't just want this to be a total
hyper liquid chill stream i know we've got the hyperfire sponsor on here as well so i've got to
give those guys a shout out love andy and the team there But yeah, what do you think genuinely as far as like a roadmap perspective?
Like, why are you so pilled on the whole thing?
And we can go as like deep as you want or don't want.
And I mean, obviously, you've just got like incredible bullishness on it.
And we said yesterday, didn't we?
It's just like hype, spot and chill.
hype spot and chill uh has that been your strategy for a while yeah i would say it's been my strategy
Has that been your strategy for a while?
more or less for the last year like i've had friends reach out being like oh do you want to
look at like this crypto project or like you know and i'm just kind of like if it has nothing to do
with hyper liquid i don't want to touch it like you can tell me about it, but I'm not touching it. Like it just, I can't deal with
the stress. It's funny. I was actually replying to someone's tweet earlier this morning. I think
the main reason for bullishness is because for the first time there is a team and a protocol
that has come out and set forth this grand mission. Like we've seen it time and time again
before, like how many brands in the crypto space have been like,
we're going to bring the next billion users on chain.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Lofty, lofty, lofty.
And then you have Hyperliquid that is not VC back,
that was bootstrapped come out and be like,
we're going to build the house of all of finance.
And like that was kind of it.
And now we're actually seeing the house of finance of finance. And like that was kind of it. And now we're actually seeing
the house of finance actually get built. This morning, the S&P 500 officially
future contract with TradeXYZ, which is one of the main like HIP3 deployers on Hyperliquid.
So it's like we're seeing massive partnerships, right?
And we're seeing this infrastructure that actually works, that is every day getting more and more
battle tested with trillions of dollars of all time volume, like billions of dollars of open
interest. It's, I don't know, I think it's like one of those things where
if we really believe the world is coming on chain and finance is coming on chain like
hyper liquid has built the rails that we're seeing a lot of that play out on and it's just
hard not to be bullish on it you know at least that's my my perspective um and what what do you think of like
the you know when we throughout like last year when hyper evm was going live and stuff and
it was my view on it at the time was it felt kind of clunky at first um and what and just to sort of
navigate from a ui point of view and everything but I also think that element
of like nascent
when something's shipped and it's like so nascent
and new and fresh there's like
there's an excitement that comes with that and I always feel like
there was an element of the industry
that was almost like
betting on it not working
because it was almost like
see it's shit
yeah it was like how do you view, you know,
the way that might go, like for the HyperEVM point of view?
Do you think that would be like a continued space
that people will experiment with or what's your thoughts?
It definitely will be.
I think it's funny because on the FUD,
I remember people being like,
look, the transactions per seconds are shit
and blah, blah, blah is shit. But like, it was very explicitly stated that like when Hyper EVM came
out, it was and still is in alpha stage. So like, you see this, the Hyper Liquid team, basically
testing in production, not like full on testing, but like my understanding from speaking with all the builders
is no one has inside edge. It's kind of like, you know, they'll be like HIP3 is now in testnet.
And then like a month later, it's deployed. No one has any insight into that timeline,
except for the foundation. So it's like one, there's this even playing ground.
And I think the thing that without getting too technical, what makes Hyperliquid incredibly
unique is you have HyperCore, which is this very fast performant order book.
This is like the L1 that is being built.
And this is like the exchange that everyone is familiar with.
So you go on Hyperliquid to trade,
you are trading on HyperCore. And then you have HyperEVM, which is their on-chain ecosystem.
This is where HyperFi and every other lending protocol, options protocol is building. These two
like pillars of Hyperliquid, what's really fascinating is they can read and write information
to each other simultaneously. And so like, from a technical perspective, it's just something that
we it's an approach that we haven't seen before. And it's enabling new products to come on board.
new products to come on board.
Like we saw kind of how it's being leveraged
with like kinetic staking and or with kinetic
and specifically K-Hype, the LST.
So it enables new primitives to be built.
We're seeing builders continually experimenting with it.
I think hyper, like people,
I think like to look at hyper evm and hyper for it
like two separate things but really they're they go hand in hand when you think about the growth
of the ecosystem so it's going to remain an important thing to pay attention to and my
perspective you did such a better job than me of course of like providing context there i just
assume that people know who listen.
I think many of them do, if I'm completely honest.
But it was a really good, well-rounded filling in context of what I was talking about as well.
And I saw this.
And let's see.
I mean, we returned to our spiritual home of StreamYard this week.
So let's see if I can share this.
I mean, this came out from shauna demons
who's like one of the blockworks researchers and this was i'm conscious of going over all ground
here my screen's going to share but did you see this it was like even if uh and i'm again i'm
immediately jumping into hip fall without kind of asking like what you sort of think about where
this might go i don't know whether you can see this or not here we are it's pulling up now
goal i don't know whether you can see this or not here we are it's pulling up now this is taking
some time today by the looks of it i see uh i love the windows background oh thank you yeah yeah it's
um i i can take no credit for this but it really gets the millennial in me going you know this sort
of like windows xp thing i mean this i thought was like and again obviously it's back and forth at
the time like even if hip4 captured 100 of percent of polymarket volume, the line, and we still
just adjust a 5% of hyper liquid revenue.
I believe this highlights at the scale of perp markets, including hip three is massive.
Hyper liquid is undervalued at seven bill.
V polymarket 10 billion recent round.
Obviously this was like back in February.
So it's definitely, definitely outdated, but it's a tricky one. And I think that the amount of calls that we have with teams
and like founders and marketers that they say it was like,
we're gonna be the next hyper liquid
and we're gonna do things the way they did.
And I'm like, oh no.
And it's the reason that was probably not working
because Twitter is now crashing on me.
It's bugging out hugely.
And I think the reason that people say that is because people are usually usually they struggle to get their head around something that hasn't been done before
so when this whole like real purest approach like the buybacks that don't be seeing everything that
came around like that it not only did it create like this incredible loyal pool of evangelists yourself yeah yeah but it also creates like the the counter which is also true where people are
kind of like really good in to see something fail um because it almost feels too good to be true
and like how do you how do you feel about that from a you know from like a kind of neutral point
of view like what do you think about like because a you know from like a kind of neutral point of view like
what do you think about like because i have this view of let me refine the question if you're
hearing crypto and maybe like this has done me like a disservice at times like i think you should
realistically want most things to win like we're a subculture and it's a massive niche and i think
if you are actively cheering for the downfall of anything i would
question your incentives and i understand competitiveness and like you're like what bags
do you hold yeah yeah yeah yeah and like what's your view of that on a philosophical level like
do you because i can imagine what jeff would say you're probably gonna fly and fuck but um
what do you think about you know the kind of the balance that we see in that sometimes i mean i think it's like
it's split into two things i think one as someone i would very much consider myself a crypto native
and i think a lot of folks that are nct are either crypto native or crypto first
where like crypto is kind of like their preferred go-to like this is where i get all my financial
tooling from um i say this a lot and it's kind of like one of those things of like one why are we
here you know we can talk about that horrendous Vanity Fair article
that came out yesterday.
Shit, yeah.
But, you know, someone was like, technology without belief
and technology without spirituality is like nothing.
Like, we are building a religion.
And I was just like, I wouldn't frame it like that.
That's fucking crazy. Yeah. But I was just like, I wouldn't frame it like that. That's fucking crazy.
Yeah. But I do think we are here for something different. I think like when we think about the
financial system today, and how it works, and who it benefits, and like, the clearing houses,
and all the middlemen and the limited access, and like does like this structure where it has been normalized
that people have to ask for permission to access basic financial tools when money moves the world
when money is the determining factor of do we eat tonight do we have a roof over our heads? Do we have food on our backs? Like, as a crypto
native, and when I think about this, it's like, we're here to revolutionize an industry that
hasn't changed in 100 plus years. Two, if crypto, like, the world is moving on chain, like period, like full stop, because financially it makes sense for these institutions to slowly, slowly, slowly start leveraging blockchain technology because it ultimately cuts operational costs for them.
So they're able to cut the cost of running their businesses while maximizing their profits.
We live in a world that's like very capitalistic in nature, right?
So all of it's going to go on chain, whether anyone likes it or not.
But what when I think about like, oh,
why we need to root for crypto first solutions to win,
why do we need to root for crypto native teams to win
is because if we just let the institutions and banks come in
and leverage this technology and they dictate all of the regulation around it across different
countries, we're just going to get the same system that doesn't really work for anyone
on crypto rails. And like this is why it's like seeing a team like or not even a team seeing a
protocol like hyper liquid have the success that it has is so fucking cool seeing that hyper liquid
now has people on the hill in dc educating lawmakers about defFi and how smart contracts work and like the importance of all
of this is so fucking important because we need crypto to have a voice as we start to like shape
this wild west into something that is more regulated. So like the I guess the long story
short is like I think if you're here and you believe in this technology,
you shouldn't really root for anyone to fail.
Like, obviously I think we have seen bad actors
in this space time and time again,
get put on pedestals.
Like, you know, I was talking with some friends about it.
It's like if SPF got pardoned
or like came out he would raise money like that for his next like without a doubt you can probably
raise it now to be honest like I think he would be absolutely fine raising right now yeah and it's
like so I get it I feel like there is a lot of like moral and ethical gray areas.
And it's like, I don't necessarily want like the bad actors to just like continually get money shoved into them.
But I think that's why it's like when I see something like hyper liquid and like the alignment that that foundation has with its users and the way they've gone about things.
It's very, very admirable.
And it's like, after being in this space
for almost five years, that is the kind of thing
that I want to bet on, where they have just as much
to lose if they fail.
They have more to lose if they fail
than anyone else, quite frankly.
Yeah, I think that I could kind of keep spinning off this,
but I would like glance to the clock and I was like,
oh, that's 25 minutes longer than I thought
we'd maybe like spend just like riffing philosophically on hype.
So like, let me end it.
Let me end this section with this bit.
Yeah. To put you on the spot spot because i think when people like just systematically buy an asset
like hype and just accumulate spot and i i sometimes think like one of the questions is
like well how do you view it long term in terms of like whether that's price action like price
targets whatever that may be like how do you view it do you view it cycle the cycle or do you kind
of look at it and go time to accumulate time to sell or do you look at this thing and think oh this could
like really are you like totally pilled on the point where oh i'm so there's no ceiling right
okay i'm like so pilled like i unless i am in a situation where I ever have to sell my hype, at least within the next five years, I don't want to touch it.
I'll borrow against it.
I'll do some DeFi shit.
I'll fuck around with it.
I'm not just going to leave it idle because I think that's also stupid.
But this is my retirement, if that makes sense.
Let's see where it is in five years.
If my thesis is right, I'm going to be fine.
I'm going to be a happy little camper, retired in my mid-30s.
It's going to be great.
Yeah, I think that's a hell of a clip you just provided there.
I didn't even mean to say you up for it.
Right, let's talk about video shit. Okay, so as we said at the start of the stream um you and and us and we which
is i guess kind of why we became pals do a lot of this sort of stuff inside out and as as we both
have said um one of the things that happened over the past, I would say six to seven months time ago,
whatever that may be,
like Marc Andreessen did the Marc Andreessen thing
and was like, hey, this is a thing called new media.
And now for like a lot of our companies
under the A16Z crypto portfolio bracket,
we're going to like,
and he reduced, he released this piece
that if you haven't
seen it um i'm not gonna link it just like google bloody a16z new media and it'll come straight up
and the crux of this thing is that they were going to deploy these teams that would like essentially
help teams launch to like gain traction and use content as a vehicle for that and one of the
things that i get quite frequently asked from whether it's teams that want to work with us or teams that we shoot with or just like friends of ours in the industry is they say, like, well, are you worried about this?
Can't teams just do it themselves?
And I think that the reason that you get that question, and since you've obviously seen like Ethereum foundations, they've set up their own like little operation.
I say, oh, God, bigger compared to what we're running um and i want to know your take on it and like how
you before we get into the crux of like the do's and the don'ts like what did you think of seeing
all that and then like seeing the way people discuss it i'm assuming it reached your timeline
as well of like how to approach video content and and for people like us who've done it for a long
time not that it's a sort of like how who've done it for a long time not that
it's a sort of like how dare they but it's more of a case of like what was your view seeing that
and are you kind of bullish on seeing people test it and play around with stuff or do you see it
more of like is it threatening like what do you think no i i think it's great i think the more
people that test and play around with shit is great. Like creativity is like one of the core pillars of like being human.
Right.
And like a core pillar of the human existence and to see more folks start to explore like this medium of being creative, I think is fantastic.
I think it takes the right person out of, like, if teams are going to do it internally,
that team has to have the right perspective and viewpoint on doing it.
Like, I hope that makes sense.
Because, like, what I've come across, and I'm not sure if you've come across this as
brands reach out, is there's, like, like two types of founders especially in tech that i
found there's like one type of founder that's like all these videos are bullshit and it's all a scam
and like like my educational videos that i make for, oh, that's just like KOL slop and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like we don't need that product wins. Like that's been one perspective and type of founder that I've
come across. And then the other type of founder acknowledges like the importance of brand and
storytelling. And then you split that type of founder into two types of people. There's the
ones that want to do it as cheaply as possible with as minimal resources as possible. And then
there's the other one that's willing to invest in it. The only way a brand can have a quote unquote
like new media division in is if they, one, realize the importance in storytelling and branding,
if they one realize the importance in storytelling and branding,
two are willing to invest in it because it's not
cheap to do. And like the, in my perspective,
like the best quote unquote freelancers that you can find for this,
you're going to have to pay them very well to go in house because the reality is,
is they probably make a fuck ton of money freelancing and working in different projects, having
their different networks.
This is a huge reason why I now have, I call it my like boutique creative agency production
company because I love working with different brands, but it's like, I would probably, I
have no desire at this point in time to go in
house anywhere, because it wouldn't like, yeah. So yeah, I mean, I don't know, how do you what
are your thoughts on it? Like, how are you feeling? Because I think people are like,
oh, well, why can't we just do that internally? And I'm like, you can, but you have to find the right person
to spearhead it internally.
You have to find someone who, and it's not just one hire.
That's like the other thing.
Like people think that they can just hire a fucking like editor
that knows his shit or her shit and is like insanely good at editing.
But then they expect
that editor to all of a sudden now become you know the creative director the post-production
supervisor the production supervisor the coordinator between blah blah blah blah and it's
like you need to it's like a team and I don't think people realize like how collaborative
content is when you're producing it at a certain scale.
Yeah. Yep. I mean, there's a ton I could go out there.
What it is for me is there's a general like knowledge gap in the way in this industry and tech in general between like the perceived value of something and the actual cost.
And it's quite odd in an industry like this where I think people can be quite liberal with spend and
you're saying we can't draw them on leaves for ourselves. Yes, that's exactly what you're saying.
That's a constant YouTuber. Yeah, that's's fine so to pick up that point there's a
there's a gap between the value of something and like genuinely just what it costs before anyone's
even made any money on it and like what someone thinks like this is how much i should pay for that
and like what's weird about this sort of like media is like the market determines determines
the value of anything right like just whether
it's a pair of sneakers or whatever it may be and one of the things that i think this industry has
to catch up on is there's a general lack of education between founders marketers even just
content creators who like want to kind of get into this as to like how how we actually do it and there there's like an
imbalance between what they're handing dollars over for because a lot of like what we do is
completely intangible to the point that it was it's quite audrey like tonight we've got a event
in lisbon like an open claw thing where we just spun it up last minute and um one of the things
we'll say to teams is like when we
shoot with them in person we like say like look this is like realistically like how these things
perform like this is the shoot it's a three uh three-man crew like we supply the light and we
do everything we'll book the venue we will do the positioning the narrative all this kind of stuff
just show up and then they're like sick how much and then you quote them and they'll be like
just show up and then they're like sick how much and then you'll quote them and they'll be like
why and then an event where it's the difference between like 50 000 people seeing something on
a timeline and 100 people being in a room they're like fucking yeah i was just like as you were
talking about that i was like god the amount of money I know these companies spend, quote unquote, sponsoring these brands.
Yeah.
It is.
Yeah.
And I'm like you, I'm overly bullish on creativity in general and want to see more of it and more people experimenting with stuff.
with stuff. And I think that if we use the Ethereum Foundation thing as an example,
there has to be, as you've quite rightly said, a buy-in from a team to put money towards something
that they can't quantify what they're getting out of it from a value perspective. And I know that
sounds like a bullshit thing to throw away, but brand creates perception and perception is everything.
And if you can create a perception of something that looks and sounds and is a certain way,
then you can't really put a value on that.
And the issue we get is you are seeing more teams now run towards trying to do a lot of the stuff that you're producing or we produce
and then lacking the understanding of what it takes to get it over the line.
And I think we'll get there.
Because how can we not?
It's been done in the real world since the beginning of time.
And I think we're just, you know, even though we're kind of like first adopters of things,
we're also like weirdly slow to a lot of things that are quite normal in the real world.
And I also think a lot of people don't really understand the depths of like creativity that go into these kind of things.
Like, you know, at the top of the stream, when we were talking about the way you did that first video with like, this is why I need to do this in this way.
And there's like multiple layers to it of why it will work the way it works.
We spend a lot of time trying to drill that home to people and say like, look, this doesn't just happen.
I wish it did.
But because you just
see the end result of it i think it's a classic case of like people see things on the internet
and because they're exposed to it every day there's a fallacy that they could just do it
yeah i mean i you know not to show my own work but last year for plasma i think we did four four of these like quote unquote new media is esc videos for them
and in total like i think it across all four it was like a couple million in views and impressions
um and like it was really funny because it was like, okay, we crafted a story. Obviously, we didn't use voiceover, we overlaid b roll for all of like the points that we were trying to communicate. And these videos started performing really, really well. And then I every day I would wake up and like, look at my timeline. And there was like another brand that literally tried to do
what we did with plasma because they probably saw they're like oh this is so this is so simple
like oh it's just like b-roll and like oh let me like throw all of these you know value props
out there and i don't think that they realized that like when I am working on creative
like that, it's not just like a, okay, we're going to have like a montage with money and then we're
going to put this phrase over it. No, it's like, what is the story? And we actually break it down
into a storyboard frame for frame. And we like start sourcing footage immediately to be like okay how do we craft this
this is the journey we want to take the viewer on and this is what we want them to feel and i don't
think people realize that like that takes time it's not like something we whip together
in just like a night you've just you've just said that already then uh storytelling you used the word um how do you think about that and how do you
think if someone came to you and said what does this mean and like how do i derive value from it
like how do you typically have those conversations oh um i don't like interesting like it's I'm not going out and chasing brands trying to pitch them on like this is why
this is valuable because you know I am over 10 years into my professional career in production
and content and I've realized it goes back to what I was telling you earlier there's those two types
of founders I'm not going to try to convert the first type of founder that just doesn't see the value that like wants their
product to speak for themselves. Because why would I when there's a plethora of founders that are
seeing the value and maybe they don't fully get it, but they know that they have to invest here.
And like those people, it's like, we'll break it down. And by the time they
come talk to someone like me, they already are like, we want to invest in brand. We really want
to make sure that people get this feeling of what our brand stands for and what it should be.
And then we talk about story. And like, that's just more of like me getting to dig in with them on the story of their brand
and i think they realize that that in itself is pretty valuable because they start to figure out
oh this is what i this is what we don't want but this is what we do want and it's like a discovery
process we go through together yeah yeah so do you, that's interesting.
You're the second person that said that to me, you know, who's like in our world of not
being concerned with the people who don't get it.
And I think that, look, there's different ways we could talk about this, right?
Isn't there as far as like, well, do you, are you like looking from like a route of
monetization?
You know, if you were listening to this and you were going, oh, I'm going to make this
content.
And like, I will start selling a service as a content creator or whatever that
may be as a filmmaker as a videographer as an editor um and it all fundamentally comes back
under this umbrella of like brand growth right and like positioning and storytelling that i've
just said it's growing from the brand it's growing it's growth and marketing and like the thing with
marketing is like it's such a broad term
that you can like break that down into different verticals as well like it's not and this one does
not fall under like oh it's a cost per acquisition type deal like it's just not like you can't do
you can't put a figure against like how many people watch this interview with x like we did one with a team
um and one of the things i said after it was they were like oh this was awesome but it didn't move
the needle i was on i was like move the needle what what does that mean exactly and it's a weird
thing in crypto because it's like it might it could mean anything it could mean like that it
moves a token price or that it's like and that's why we say now likewise with you as well i'm not interested
in having a conversation with someone if they're like don't understand the value before we've even
like kind of come to the table on something because it's like that could be so broad that
if you don't have an exact reason that you want to do something with a certain someone or with a
certain team then it's you kind of want hiding to nowhere before you've even started you know what i mean
yeah for sure and i also just think like
like we said these things don't get produced overnight like how many active projects do you
have going on right now like um two i guess going into can two like that are going to be video focused yeah uh which is
multi-pronged right yeah yeah multi-deliverable yep so you have clients that are stoked on your
work that are like we're gonna invest in brand and storytelling why are you going into like for me
it's like why would we divert time away from paying clients that are
going deep with us that like value what we think and like our perspective on how things should be
positioned you know what i mean yeah like at the end of the day i hate to get so like money with it
but it's like time is money and the other thing too is when you're, I remember
Nev was like talking about how like people were reaching out to him being like, Hey,
will you do this? And then like not paying him jack shit for it. Like I always tell brands that
come to me, like the sticker cost of engagement is probably going
to be higher than you think it is. But you know what else I do? I give them a line item breakdown.
I'm like, this is the cost for my time because this project will probably take about three weeks.
Like this is me ideating with you, strategizing with you, executing and managing everything, making sure it's executed.
We've done other projects like this. It's going to take anywhere from 35 to 40 hours. This is my
hourly rate for my editor. It's my hourly rate for my animator. And I give them the line item
breakdown of the cost and why it ends up being where it is. And it's,
you know, I don't like fluff my budgets either. I'm like, this is just, this is the cost. Like
you get what you pay for. And I think like the brands that see that and then go through the
process are always, they always come out at the end being like cool we're gonna do something again because
i think they get it if that makes sense yeah yeah it's it's a funny one too because um and and we
probably go too far down the other route where we'll say to a team like whether we were streaming
or like whether we're shooting or whatever and if we kind of i usually have like some red flags like where I'm like um to share about it if like
they want to like a direct quantification of how will this perform and I'm like no idea
completely there are so many ways that could define like how this will do well like whether
it's on a timeline and again like we've literally titled this stream to just pull people in how to
get more views than anyone else but there really like actually isn't a guarantee i've found or do you
just do you disagree with that or do you like is it horses for courses is there a way that you kind
of think from like zero to one of like how to make sure that this thing at least comes out the gate
strong um i think it depends like i always say this it depends on
the creative like there might be some pieces that if a brand comes we will intentionally carve out
a moment in the story where we're integrating like their other brands that they work with and
their partners and their ecosystem so that way when they do release it there's this natural
amplification that comes from partners, there's this natural amplification
that comes from partners.
Like there's like little things like that, that all,
depending on what the goal is for the brand,
we will incorporate that in
during the storyboarding process of like, oh cool.
Like this will be a moment where we highlight
and feature this.
But yeah, I don't, I think unless it's,'s I think I guess the other thing too that I'm realizing is
I think it's a little different for you and I like I specifically do like these brand pieces
right like I'll do talking heads like I've produced quite a few talking heads but it's like if a
brand is coming to me to do a talking head it's because
they already it's a need it's a content need within like a broader strategy that they have
versus like streaming right because they're like oh well how many views do you expect this to get
like what is your audience and demographic i think they have a little bit more things that they can drill.
It's the difference between providing like an agency service
to like produce something versus like working collaborative
being like something that might be going out into the wild
that like is both names attached to it.
100%.
It's like your media.
Your production and media. but like i guess that's
the difference it's like yeah blockmates production and media whereas me it's like
it's more production and advertising yeah that's completely yeah yeah so what what are you um
what is if i'm trying to think of like a kind of philosophical thing that I could ask you about, like, typically we never really do much prep for these.
I just like bring people on and like and riff with them.
If you, if someone like comes to you and is like, look, like we don't even know where to start with this.
Like you're a team.
Let's do this from a team point of view.
And you're like, you might be a marketing rep at a team
and they say we don't know where to start from an angle point of view we know what we wanted the
messaging to be we know what we think the usp is why we we built this entire thing how do you go
from that what's that first step to like actually building something for someone that you think
like how do you have that conversation i try to get on a call with like
obviously the person that reached out but more importantly someone who can like very clearly
explain the mission and vision because like the person who reached out can normally be like hey
we kind of want we know we want to do this we don't like you said we don't directionally know
but like this is the broader context in which this will roll out into. Right. So you right there, like that's a data point of like, okay,
like maybe it's a product launch or it's a feature launch. That's going to like kick off some
big marketing spree for them. But like, for me, it's getting on a call with the founder,
like, like usually the founder or a co-founder
to really understand the mission and vision.
Because I think that dictates the story that you tell.
Like who's the audience that's more important
for you to reach?
Like a crypto native first piece of creative to me
looks very different than a,
we're trying to go after a consumer. Like you should be able to show this to your partner and they have no idea that it's crypto
um that's interesting that's let's go down that route because like so right where's the direct
difference there then because when we talk like crypto native type production stuff versus like something to drive consumer.
There's I think there's a complete mix up for technically,
like some people view that as like projects producing content or marketing
material collateral, whatever that may be as a way to essentially like promote
could be talking price, which if you speak to any team in
the industry it's like the actual opposite of the track many of them feel like held to that
because it's sort of like shit we're laden with this thing that basically overshadows our entire
operation and it's quite a tricky thing isn't it to go if in a normal world you were like you're
creating content for instagram it's like oh this needs to drive more people to buy this product hair gel whatever it could be here
this is why I think the storytelling element is so important because like this is what we try and
drill down into people it's like what you guys stand for should probably be the most important
thing that comes through in everything you do from a public facing aspect.
Does that make sense?
Yeah,
for sure.
That's why I'm like,
it's great.
Whoever reached out is great.
But if it's not a co-founder or like the CEO,
it's like,
I still want to get on a call with the co-founder CEO because it's one thing
to read it on the website.
It's another thing to get 30 to 45 minutes with someone to be like
why is what you're building important what's at stake if you guys fail um yeah because like
oh go ahead i was gonna say it's decision makers as well right yeah yeah but like if you if you
look at the first few videos that plasma put put out, it was like, creative one, money moves
the world. Creative two, the system is not for us. Like creative three, like money is freedom.
And it's like the messaging there. Like I remember showing it to my partner and she was like, oh,
this doesn't feel like it's a crypto ad. And it wasn't supposed to, you know, versus where if the priority is going after like
crypto first people, I wouldn't be so hesitant to be like, you know, faster bridges or using more specific terms versus money that moves at the speed of the
internet versus bridge one-to-one. There's like definitely a more polished version of bridge
one-to-one, but it's like you start to, how you do value props starts to change and adjust depending on the audience you're going
after i i think you know and this is sort of a nice segue into the next part of the conversation
in general like one of the things that we talked about we in the 26th thesis like every year we'll
write a thesis piece of like where we think things are going and um like i would say in the last like
year 18 months it's quite clear that
like tokens are failing but crypto is winning right from like a we are going towards this place
and whether people like it or not and the confluence of ai is making it even more extreme
where crypto winning means that it does fade into the background to a certain extent as far as like
the infrastructure and the rails.
And like I'm hearing it more and more often with teams rather like we're not going to specifically call out the tech anymore.
Like even if it's like privacy tech, they're like, oh, no one actually cares how the sausage is made.
They just want to know what this empowers like.
what what does this thing exist to do whereas i think we've been caught in this echo chamber for
What does this thing exist to do?
the longest time of um trying to convince ourselves of like this complex technology of like
a thousand transactions per second like yeah technical technical specs versus correct and
and it now feels like because the industry is moving that way
you can be way more creative and abstract with how you position it from a messaging point of
view because it needs to be because like even like the like yield like interest like all all
this kind of shit that we've just like made up these jargon terms and it feels as frustrated as people have been because people have not made money from a trading point of view.
From an industry point of view, it almost feels like the best potential we've had since I've been in the space as far as like where we're going from a blockchain infrastructure perspective.
And yes, there's an argument to be made about like Bitcoin ethos versus like blockchain adoption with like the likes of tempo and all this kind of thing coming online but i i definitely think that means that if you you're into crypto
and you're a real like crypto native geek and you like love this kind of thing that we're talking
about and you want to be doing more of it you've got a better opportunity than maybe you've ever
had ever to just create like more otherworldly stuff and be experimental with the way
that you market things because you kind of have to be because no one's going
to care as much anymore as they did two, three, four years ago about the
complexities of how a protocol is built. Does that make sense?
Like it's all about like what the user gets or like why this thing is a
success from a B2B angle even.
It's your product benefits at the end of the day.
I spent a little bit of time in e-com marketing.
And that gets fucking drilled into you.
Basically, after I did client and agency work, i did e-com marketing for a bit during
covid um and then like it came to crypto but like dude there are only so many ways like one of the
brands that i worked for was a protein brand and there are only so many ways that you can sell protein but the calls that we would have we would have
three hour calls going over website copy battling out the different a b messages that you're going
to test and it's like it always came down to product benefit product benefit how can we show
product benefit like not only just in the copy, but in the visuals, but like, how do we bring storytelling into showing the product benefit?
And so it's funny because it's like, we're talking about this as if like, it's a new
revolutionary concept, right? For like these crypto companies. But it's, this is the standard
across every other industry.
And it's like, I saw this comment, like, how do you assure businesses that it's worth investing in marketing?
It's one of those things that most brands and even protocols, if we want to stay crypto specific, but let's actually broaden it to brands.
Most brands, if they do zero marketing and it's all word of mouth, they will only grow so big. And there's going to be a point in time where they need more eyeballs, where they need to
expand their top of funnel. And traditionally, the way you think about that is content. Can we get user generated content on social?
Can we like keep feeding this word of mouth vehicle?
And then like once that grows, they will start to invest in paid ad campaigns.
And like depending on what you're marketing, it's like you could do a UGC strategy for
that.
You could do an influencer strategy for that.
UGC is like trending where
that wins. But then it's like, and then if they scale even more, they'll run all of those strategies
on top of doing something like a Super Bowl commercial. Yeah. I don't think
most Super Bowl commercials that are like filmed, because I know producers that have worked on them,
you're looking at budgets in the millions of dollars
to just produce the piece of content.
And like, it's crazy.
That is the normal.
That is the usual.
And people are like, oh, AI is making it cheaper.
AI is like going to kill Hollywood.
But it's like, it's not like all of these companies,
all of these VFX companies and like whatnot,
they use AI as a tool to accelerate some of the process.
But like, there's a reason.
Sorry, I'm like just ranting.
I don't even know what my name is.
No, no, no. It's a valid point because what I want to jump on is
because you brought up the Super bowl thing and ads in general we are recording this today on the
backdrop of um the vanity fair article coming out yesterday so you brought up the
super bowl ads right and this year obviously there was the infamous thing that
happened with where coinbase ran the ad did you see it and it came up and it was like
the single like everyone's single on backstreet boys like and then it like all the actual funnier
thing came on the back of it was the people that were um watching it at home and then like when it
showed up coinbase people like literally like booing the tv and and go like oh fuck that fuck crypto and it makes me
think like again i don't know henry is this screen pulling up i don't know whether it's just like
lagging like hell today or what there we go so this this brought me to think about the optics
problem that we have yeah with crypto as a whole, right?
And everything we've been talking about now and how this should run better and everything.
And then this appears, which I honestly thought it was a lot.
Looks like a kind of almost a Gossip Girl parody.
Dude, it's Vanity Fair. Dude, it's vanity fair.
Yeah, it's vanity fair.
Crypto is true.
Believers demand to be taken seriously.
They party like rock stars, search for aliens,
practice survivalism, sometimes showed up without shoes.
Then Crypto Winter came, which is just the fucking worst term in the world.
And they lost billions.
And they lost billions.
Clara Miller talks to the zealots who are holding the line.
I, yeah.
What did you think when you saw this?
Oh, my God.
I thought, honestly, I was just like, the people,
I almost felt like the people who did it just did it to
stroke their own fucking ego you know it's kind of like how everyone is like I don't want Forbes
30 under 30 but if they ever got it or even shortlisted for it like it's a it's a thing
like I was shortlisted for Forbes 30 under 30 and I remember that year it was like, it's a, it's a thing. Like, I was shortlisted for Forbes 30 under 30. And I remember
that year, it was like such a highlight for me. I was like, damn it, I was so close. Like,
maybe I'll get it in the next year, the next two years. And I think like, that's just pride and ego.
And I honestly felt embarrassed. Like, I skimmed the article and I was like no no like what like how is this the shit
that like mainstream audiences see instead of like Eric Voorhees and his permissionless speech
from like two years ago talking about how we're here to change the world for the better. Like, it, I feel like our space because it is so financially
driven. And because like the gains can be so insane, it's like, pulled between build a better
world versus like, get rich, stroke my ego, do all of the things that make me feel like I'm a
celebrity. And like, I'm famous famous does that do you see that too
does yeah do you know what I'm talking about yeah I think the concern that I have is I'm not sure
how we ever because it's such a you know like being in media like this is that performs well
like you're obviously gonna like bad news sells right and why would like this is a much more
seductive article to post especially in the backdrop of the political like the global political
climate and the way crypto has been used as a pawn in all of that in the last like year or so and
my concern is i just don't think you ever get away from that from an optics point of view
and i think that maybe the days of like the
get rich quick things i think are probably long gone like memes all that kind of shit and the
only kind of hope that i have with it is that in time like you know time hails all wounds and all
this kind of shit and even as i scan the article is like talks of like the uae and dubai and these
people fleeing there and dude what do you think like in my free time when i'm not partying
on yachts i'm jetting around the uae like that is in that article yeah like it's
yeah i don't know it um because obviously you got like kathy wood in there and danny ryan
and it's like it yeah it's really really tough because it's vanity fair
as you say it's super aesthetic it's very well done um i haven't read it i'll skim through it
but it's just a bad luck isn't it it's um and and i can't see a point that we won't get that forever
with the term crypto and like where it goes from and i think the only way it
goes away is when if it fades into the background from a blockchain point of view well it's also
like how did they find these people like kathy wood sure the the open c duo yeah i that but it's like where is brian armstrong where is jeff from hyper liquid where
is eric vorhees where are where are the builders there was only like one in there and then it was
like a market maker and like da da da da da And it's like the people holding down the line are the fucking builders,
you know?
And so I do think in time,
I disagree with you.
I do think in time we'll be able to get away.
And I also think there will always be mean coins and shit that like people
use to try to get rich fast. Like they're it's always going to be around
but i think like it's just not going to be the main thing in 10 years yeah i think i think you
forget how early this all still is as well because like days like months feel like days
days yeah am i getting that the right way around and it's it's
like you know you take a few days offline like i did last week and all of a sudden it feels like
it's been a month and it hasn't um i think hopefully you're right it's just it carries a
lot of weight doesn't it crypto there's like a dirty word sometimes when you're speaking to
normies about it and um yeah it's a funny thing it's like even telling someone oh what do you do it's like oh look I work in tech well I hope you're right I am I'm conscious we ran
over an hour already and I think we could have gone like well more down the
rabbit hole legend I would love to run this back and I just want to say thanks
for coming on and talking about this stuff with me and knows and could
probably do another two more hours of this talking with me and us and we could probably do another two more hours
of this talking about video and optics
and everything else that comes with it.
So yeah, you are like,
if people haven't found Jen already,
I mean, if you're watching on YouTube after the fact,
like you should have hopefully found it on Twitter.
It's been bugging the fuck out
while we've been streaming.
You can find her at D-Jen
and it'll be in the youtube description and
everything please go and look at her work it's um fucking sick uh because i can say that and
she could probably say it herself but uh hope found that valuable i said it did it's probably
at risk of us just like talking shit because that's sort of what i wanted to do with this hour
so thank you jen for coming on no thank you alex for having me this was a ton of
fun anytime you want to jam i'm always down it's always fun i will see you all next week bye
i can end it there
