Our co-host is Amy. Welcome.
Hi, thanks, David, for the introduction, and hello, everyone.
I'm really looking forward to today's discussion.
Thank you all for taking your precious time to join this Twitter space discussion.
Firstly, please allow me to introduce our GSD year at the commencement of this Twitter space.
Our GSD year is the largest global decentralized Web3 gaming community building on the MOOC system.
Our version is to connect gaming enthusiasts, developers, and inventors to create a sustainable and healthy gaming ecosystem.
Yeah, I would like to say that, you know, in recent years, their knowledge-proof technology has gained increasing attention in the blockchain and cryptocurrency fields.
On May 21st, at the ESREN EDCON 2023 conference held in Montenegro,
ESREN founder, Vita Bruton, wants again launching this technology.
The ZK, ZK based on ZK as a fundamental technology will be as important as a blockchain in the future.
Yeah, so the zero-no-point-proof is a cryptographic principle that allows one part to prove another one part.
Yeah, which means, you know, a certain piece of information without reviewing any other information.
So, that's why we would like to choose this as our topic.
So, I think everyone would like to know about what's the meaning for this and what's the meaning for Web3 whole industry and what impact will it have on our daily Web3 gaming experience.
So, today we would like to dive into this kind of topic with four experienced builders from different occupation and environment projects join us into this discussion.
There are Vivian, the marketing manager from Digifenex and Sami Stein, the founder of Akatsuki,
and Mazio is a guide manager from BigTime.
And I have to say that BigTime is my favorite Web3 gaming.
And the last one is Phil Kane, the head of BNS developer of O1 apps.
Thanks for your participation.
If you enjoy the space and appreciate those amazing insights about our topics, please do me a favor to follow this project.
Thanks for the brief introduction about today's topic.
And I would kindly invite all our guests today to briefly introduce yourselves and your projects.
Vivian, can you go first?
I'm Vivian, the marketing manager at Digifenex.
And thanks for having me.
So glad to join JJ Slayers AMA and meet so many new friends.
For those who may not be familiar, I wanted to give a brief intro about Digifenex.
Digifenex is an emerging cryptocurrency exchange platform that prides itself on providing a secure, user-friendly, and innovative trading experience.
And with a robust suite of features and a wide range of supported cryptocurrencies, Digifenex has emerged as a trusted platform for both seasoned traders and crypto enthusiasts.
Thanks for the introduction.
Thanks for the introduction.
Then, Summit, we would like to introduce next.
Or maybe Matthew, you can go first.
I'm the guild manager with Big Time.
For people who don't know what Big Time is, it's just a video game.
It's kind of like a mixture between World of Warcraft and Diablo.
We are honored to have you.
And then, Phil, do you want to introduce yourself and your project?
Phil Kelly, I lead business development at O1 Labs.
Thanks very much for having us on the Twitter space.
So, we're a team that is probably one of the earliest teams in the ZK space.
And we are big contributors to the MENA blockchain, which is the world's first and I think still the only ZK L1 blockchain.
And since the launch of MENA, we've been working on an SDK to allow developers who are not cryptographers necessarily to build ZK at the application layer.
And also to build DAP chains.
And the SDK uses Typekit libraries.
So, we're hoping to bring ZK to the rest of the world and start to get it to be mainstream.
We launched that last year.
And the MENA blockchain is now working on Testnet for the layer that will allow ZK apps to run live there and be settled on Testnet.
So, great to meet everybody.
Thanks for all the introductions.
And thanks for being here today.
Next, we will start a discussion around today's topic.
Guests can freely raise your hands to speak during each part or the host will randomly invite you to speak.
Okay, yeah, the first question, we would like to make this to the space from some easy to the complicated idea.
So, the first question would be, yeah, very simple and easy.
That is, they introduce to the zero-knowledge proof and its future and advantages.
You know, ZK technology is considered as a new trend in the web-store game industry.
As it enables efficient data verification while ensuring privacy.
Okay, let's first understand the concept of ZK technology.
The ZK is a short for zero-knowledge proof.
It is a cryptographic concept.
It allows one part to prove another part.
That they know a certain value without reviewing any information about the value to the verifier.
So, it's an exciting concept because it's unknown for privacy.
Prevision while maintaining the system security and transparency.
So, Will, would you please explain the features and the advantages of the technology as a first one?
Yeah, so happy to do that.
So, it's a pretty wide-ranging topic.
I think you made a really good start there by explaining that zero-knowledge proof.
Proofs allow a statement to be proved by one party to another without revealing the underlying information that supports that statement.
And actually, maybe I can just also try to help structure this a little bit by saying that ZK technology can be used at the infrastructure layer in blockchain.
And that's really where a lot of the activity has been so far.
So, you know, when you've seen all the headlines about ZK roll-ups, ZK bridges, and you may have seen also, you know, articles and heard things in the industry about ZK like clients and state channels.
All of that relates to using ZK kind of embedded in the infrastructure layer to help blockchain infrastructure work better.
And that's really interesting.
It's a very powerful use case, but it's only a baby step in a way.
So, you know, as a user, you get to use hopefully, you know, lower cost, safer, faster infrastructure, but you're not directly accessing the ZK capabilities.
But that's definitely one very important category of infrastructure of ZK use cases and allow better infrastructure that will hopefully be performed enough to support more and more advanced gaming.
But then there's a whole new set of use cases that are just starting now that will have ZK at the application layer.
And that's going to allow people to experience things that, you know, do use the property that you just talked about, which is proving things that are revealing underlying information.
And I think that will be relevant to games in two areas.
So the first is that it will allow some of the core logic of a game to use ZK properties.
So to give you an example, you know, us as a group of speakers, we could play a card game, you know, maybe it may be a for money card game.
And each of us could have a state locally.
So we could have we could have cards in our hand, which are private from the other players.
And we could conduct the game, you know, I could take a turn and I could have a proof that's running locally in my environment to show that, you know, the card I played was from the hand I was dealt.
I didn't suddenly insert another hand, another card or lose a card.
So it could prove the that I was sticking to the rules and the fairness of what I did.
And we could then take turns and each of us could run a set of ZK encapsulated logic in our own environments.
We complete the game and the ZK proof then goes to the chain for verification and the result of the game is then settled.
So you can have core game logic running with ZK wrappers off chain, essentially, that allows private state to be maintained and therefore to have games of partial information conducted and then verified back on chain.
And then the other thing. So the third area is that I think there's a lot of peripheral things you can achieve with ZK that will be augmentative to games and will help the experience there.
So for example, you can likely build anti-spam, anti-bot mechanisms.
You could potentially build privileged access to games using people's attainment in other games without doxing their wallets from other games.
So there's a third area of peripheral capabilities that are going to become possible.
Thanks for the introduction. It's really thorough.
And Phil talked about how ZK can be used in infrastructure layer and in app layer and peripheral applications.
Then Vivian, do you want to share something about Zero Knowledge Proof or its features?
Yeah, sure. Thank you for the question, firstly. So I believe that Phil has, you know, explained it pretty clear on the tech side.
But from a user perspective, I believe, you know, one of the key features of ZK Proof is its ability to ensure privacy and confidentiality.
And with ZKP, a gamer developer can implement mechanisms that verifying the integrity and fairness of gameplay without compromising sensitive user data.
As a gamer myself, I think this is very important to me.
And this is particularly crucial as well in the entire gaming industry where user privacy and then the prevention of cheating are the top priority.
And furthermore, ZK Proof promotes transparency and trust in Web3 games through the use of mathematical proofs.
Players can verify the fairness of game outcomes or the authenticity of in-game assets.
And this creates a level playing field and reduces the needs for blind trust in centralized game operators.
I think this as this perspective is really important that all gamers are really looking forward to the ZK be used in all the games.
Then, Matthew, do you also want to say something about your knowledge proof?
Not really. I'm not as familiar with it. We don't really use it at BigTime. We're really just kind of like a fundamental video game.
So, yeah, I mean, it sounds really cool. Kudos to the projects that are making it.
Okay, okay. Actually, BigTime is my favorite Web3, Web3 Gaming, and I can say it's, yeah, it's a, it's a, maybe it's a great, some great example, of course, about, about ZK, how to use Web3 Gaming.
Yeah. So, the next, the next question, you know, would be how there are, there are knowledge proof objects issues in Web3.
That means, you know, after, before I, before I, before I, I hold this to the space, I, I do some preparation for this to the space.
And I just wrote in front and found some relevant article.
Yeah, the, the one of article, um, I, I found it in websites. At the end of the paper, I found the, the article is widened by zero, one naps.
So, uh, I think this question is the most suitable for Phil. Okay. Uh, uh, Phil, could you give more details about, uh, about, about the paper content?
You know, you know, in that paper, you, you give us a great example about that, that the poker game, poker game is a great case about how there, there will, uh, no need proof address the issue on the Web3 Gaming.
Um, you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, that is a different, not as a variety, um, types of gaming, um, just like Big Time is, um, RPG game.
Could you give, give us more ideas about how they, their knowledge work for, uh, work for other, uh, other types gaming, just like, uh, MMORPG?
Sure. Yeah. So I, yeah, I think you're referring to the blog post I wrote, uh, last year about gaming, uh, which was kind of high level and conceptual, uh, but it's a very kind of complex space.
And so I wanted to just try to, you know, structure some thinking around the gaming space in, in, in totality and ZKPs.
Yeah. I used an example of, um, a, a card game, a poker game. Um, and one of the reasons I did that is because I think, I mean, it was a couple of reasons I did it.
Number one, it's a good example of essentially playing a game. And I think, um, Emily actually described this pretty well. Um, you can play a game, um, where you can have privacy, but the ability to fully trust what's happening.
Um, so in the, in the example I gave there, um, you know, each of us runs, I'm going to go back to my example I just gave in fact, but each of us runs, uh, um, an instance of a game in our local browser.
It's in a ZK wrapper. So, you know, it's off chain at that point. Um, but you can, despite, despite the soft chain and everybody's running instance locally, because it's in a ZK wrapper, everybody, all the participants can trust that the other participants are, um, running the code fairly and they're not cheating.
And the, you know, the reason that's a good example is because you need to have privacy in a game of partial information like that. And therefore, um, you need to run some of the code off chain. So the other participants can't see, you know, what you got in your hand, for example.
So it's a good, it's a good, uh, example for that reason. It's also a good example because you can use in a game that you can play off chain and then settle back on chain.
You can use the property of ZK called recursion, um, where you can roll, essentially roll up proofs rather than having to prove every move back on the chain.
You can roll them up and then prove the outcome of the game at the very end of it. And that saves you on time. Um, you know, it's efficient from a processing perspective and it also saves you on gas costs.
Um, and then the third reason I like that example is because you, you kind of really care about the outcome. I mean, there are, you know, there are games where you hope people wouldn't tamper with the code.
Um, but at the end of the day, you know, it might spoil a game. It's not going to cost you a lot of money. Um, but if you're playing a money game, a casino game, then you really, really care about the, uh, the fairness of the game and the fact that it's not, but it's tamper proof.
Um, so it's a good example from that perspective. Um, and then finally, um, you could actually, you could practically do that now.
I mean, there's all kinds of things we'll be able to do with ZK and gaming in the future as the technology advances and the efficiency gets better.
But you could build a money game right now, um, a money card game, um, and have it settled back on chain.
And it's, you know, it would be the first, I think, uh, ZK based off chain card game out there.
So that's, I think, interesting. Um, I think you asked for other examples.
So, um, we, in the, the Mina Ruka system has got a few people who are building chains.
Somebody is building something called, oh, it's building ZK games.
Somebody's building, um, a game called Mina Arena.
Um, and you know, it takes a similar approach.
You, the participants run code locally off chain, but it's in a ZK wrapper.
So the other participants know that, you know, each participant is, uh, sticking to the rules.
They haven't tampered with the code.
Uh, and then it rolls up and settles back on chain.
And there are some, you know, there's a board game there, as I say, called Mina Arena.
Um, people have also started to play around with building other games of partial information
Um, so you can have a two-player version of Wordle where one, one player sets the word.
The other, uh, the other player tries to guess it.
Um, and again, although the two players are operating off chain, um, the player who's doing
the guessing note can be sure that the person who set the word isn't changing the word as
Um, somebody's built a game, I think in one of our earlier rounds of builders for O1 Labs,
we had builders programs.
Uh, I think somebody built a, a game for dark chess where, again, it's a partial information
game, a fog of war game where one player can only see, um, the areas of the board that their
own pieces can move into.
So there's all, all kinds of games of partial information that people are experimenting with.
Um, I say at the other end of the spectrum, um, the, I don't know if you'll know the Xerox
Park folks who are part of the, well, they're attached to the Ethereum Foundation, and they've
been focusing recently on autonomous worlds.
Um, so, you know, environments in which you could play games and looking to show provable
So a couple of examples there of additional games that are being built.
So, thanks for your amazing insight about this kind of question.
I think, I think your insight is actually wide in my, yeah, wide in my eyes about this kind
Actually, in my, in my eyes, I just, uh, I think the, the, the K technology would be a
good tool, uh, not only, not only just to improve their availability in game and, uh, but also
it's the more important part is, uh, yeah, you know, it, it can, um, uh, protect the, the
identity information and the asset security.
And, uh, as you said, yeah, the, another, um, on the other hand, the offline, off chain is,
um, is a great, uh, yeah, it's a great way to, to, um, how to use a K to, uh, to improve
and, uh, uh, uh, yeah, and, and, and optimize the, the users and the games, uh, gamers experience.
So, uh, uh, Matthew, do you have any idea about this kind of question?
What was the question again?
Uh, the question is how the, how the zero-knowledge proof addresses the issue in the web store
Do you have any questions about this kind of question?
I, I mean, again, we're not doing it at big time.
Um, went in a very different direction.
Like, one of the things we really noticed was that a lot of gamers really seem to value
something different, um, when it came to, like, blockchain stuff.
And one of the things was making it more accessible.
Um, a lot of the questions that I get from players that perhaps are not as familiar with
blockchain or cryptocurrency is how does, uh, how do I find it inside the game?
Things like drop rates, um, their issues are often not about forgeries because it's just
It's a digital item inside of the game that they're actually using.
Um, and so the transferability is often not high on their list of questions about, um, about
big time and how they can use those digital assets.
For us, it was much more about just accessibility, making it really easy for people to get involved.
And so that was why we went in the direction we did.
And, uh, I guess there are different ways to treat this, um, to treat this technique.
By the way, Vivian, do you want to share something about this question?
So, uh, zero-knowledge proof addresses several key issues in Web3 games, and, uh, there are
some compelling use cases that highlight its effectiveness.
So, uh, the first one would be verifying, uh, game integrity.
In Web3 games, uh, maintaining a, maintaining the integrity of gameplay is very essential.
With ZK Proof, developers can implement proof system to ensure that game outcomes are fair
For instance, uh, ZK Proof can be used to prove that a random number generated from a game was
indeed generated fairly, and without revealing any, you know, um, info or data about the random
And this just prevents, uh, manipulation and provides players with confidence in the, um,
game's integrity and then the, the, the gaming brand itself.
And then the second one would be the privacy and security are always a crucial aspect of
And ZK Proof allows for the verification of certain actions or, um, attributes without disclosing
And for example, it can be used to, uh, verify a player's age without revealing, um, his or
her actual birth date and then other, you know, sensitive data.
And this protects, protects all the user's data and privacy and encourages, uh, more user
participation, especially in games that requires age or identity verification.
And additionally, Web3 games often, um, you know, involve the trading of in-game assets
or NFTs and ZK Proof can, uh, really be used in facilitating this trading process in a much
secure and transparent way.
And meanwhile, players can, uh, well prove the ownership and authenticity of their assets,
Without, uh, compromising any, um, any of their, their info or privacy.
And this just adds a layer of protection and ensures trust between parties involved during
the transactions and also reduce the risk of fraud or, um, counterfeit assets.
And that's, and that's my answer to that.
And I was going to jump, can I jump in and just say, I really like those examples.
Um, the first couple of examples that Vivian gave can also be applied to Web2 games.
So it's interesting that, you know, if you're playing a Web2, I'm going to go back to casino
If you're going to be playing a Web2 casino game, um, you, I mean, obviously you're kind
of the, the mercy of the fairness of the code that is running behind the scenes that, um,
administers a game and, you know, the, the randomness is one aspect of that.
There's probably other aspects as well.
Um, and I think you already have the concept in Web2 casino games of provable fairness.
The, the, some of the sites out there talk about, you know, the measures they've taken
to ensure that they're using provable fairness.
Um, but at the end of the day, you know, unless you're observing it directly right now, you
can't be sure that a Web2 casino game is using true randomness and that they're not in some
other way tampering with the mechanism of the game, uh, because you can't see the code
But if you had code that the Web2 casino game had already published, that people had looked
out and said, yeah, that's kind of provably fair.
Um, and then you put it in a ZK wrapper, then the casino game could periodically or, you know,
potentially in a streaming way, um, publish proof saying, yeah, you know, we showed you
It's provably fair and we're running it.
We can prove that we're running it.
So I think, you know, some of these concepts that are going to be useful for Web3 gaming are
also useful for Web2 gaming.
Um, I'd make the same point about, um, that Vivian made about, um, proof of age, for example,
or other compliance issues.
You could potentially allow people to prove things about themselves in a way that was
privacy preserving and didn't, you know, dox all of their information to a Web2 casino game
site, um, while allowing the site to, you know, trust what was being proved.
Um, yeah, actually, um, based on, based on the application of the, the, the, the knowledge
proof and, you know, you can say it can process the identification, identity information and
So, so whatever, uh, the Web3 gaming or Web2 traditional gaming, where there's, uh, yeah,
there's so many, um, so many application, uh, scenarios, uh, to, to use it.
Uh, so, uh, yeah, we have to use, uh, this, uh, this kind of, um, uh, content, what I, what
I'm talking about, I have already, um, bring us jumping to the story question.
The story question is, uh, um, the, the potential benefits of zero knowledge proof of, for players
and, uh, game developers.
I, I think, uh, Phil have, have already talked, uh, uh, so many relevant, uh, contents about
So Phil, could you, uh, do a simple, uh, uh, expansion, uh, depending on the, uh, your answer
about this, this, this, the privacy, um, question.
Uh, please give me more details about having this, this kind of company.
You're looking for a comment on identity there, or, or?
You know, you know, the, uh, after, after, after exploring how the case technology are just
issues in Web3 games, um, you know, the benefits could, uh, the, yeah, the potential, uh, benefits
of the current knowledge proof, uh, would, uh, involve aspects that, such as fairness, transparency,
and the securities, this kind of, uh, uh, kind of aspects that you have already, uh, talk,
talk about, uh, and with DigiFi next, uh, so I think, could you, uh, do, uh, do an expansion
about your answer to, to talk more details about the potential benefits of zero, no-needs
proof for players and, again, developers?
Well, I can, um, jump in with a couple more examples of things that you could do, especially
Um, by the way, I know that we're, we sort of, like, sound like we're talking about, you
know, a little bit about theoretical futures here, and we're a little bit light on examples
of games that are already doing these things.
The reason for that is because it's really only just become recent, uh, possible recently
to build ZK, the application layer.
Um, but, you know, it is now possible, so, you know, these are no longer theoretical possibilities.
I think we're going to rapidly see people building, uh, ZK applications, including games, um, and,
uh, in the same way as the ZK infrastructure story kind of came out of nowhere and started to
become the, one of the main narratives in the blockchain industry.
I think we're going to see ZK app, uh, ZK apps become, you know, very mainstream pretty
Um, but yeah, a couple more examples.
I mean, once you've got ZK based identity, you know, we talked about, um, KYC, um, or just,
you know, proving something for compliance reasons.
Um, I think anti-spam, anti-bot is going to be a big one.
So, you know, proving things about yourself to show that you're, you know, a human, uh,
and that you've only done something or claimed something or joined something once.
I think that could become a big use case in, in gaming and elsewhere.
So, you know, the more that games allow things or are based on things like quests or airdrops,
the more that anti-spam, anti-bot will be important.
Um, it should also help, you know, to the extent that games are, have community-based
decisions, it will allow voting.
Um, so, you know, proving something about yourself to demonstrate your ability to, to
vote or how many votes you've got, um, again, without, you know, fully doxing all your information.
So it'll help with voting.
It'll also help with, um, what I would describe as gated anonymous chat.
So you could have a, a chat room, um, or a chat thread going that, you know, only certain
players in a game could participate in.
So if you'd see, if you'd achieve a certain level, um, and maybe even if you achieved, uh,
a certain level in multiple games, you could bring a, a proof of all those things together
as a credential to join a chat, um, that was restricted to a limited set of people.
So voting, uh, uh, gated anonymous chat, um, uh, anti-spam, all of those are things that
you could build off of a ZK-based identity.
Thanks for sharing, Phil.
And yeah, uh, uh, actually, uh, um, based on, based on your answer, I have a question for
Digifinex, you know, um, uh, as, uh, the field states, you know, ZK knowledge could be a great
technology support for the KYC.
So, uh, uh, is there any attention from, uh, Digifinex to use, uh, ZK knowledge proof to
support your KYC service?
Uh, you know, it's a good, uh, good and effective way to unimpose and unspam.
Uh, can you repeat your question, please?
You're a little bit, uh, breaking up sometimes.
Uh, you know, I, I mean, it's, uh, Digifinex has, uh, as a five years and a great, uh, great,
great exchange, uh, centralized exchange platform.
And, uh, you know, uh, as Phil said, the, uh, uh, zero, zero knowledge proof, uh, could
be, uh, great technology support for the KYC service.
So, Digifinex, do you, uh, do you, uh, uh, does Digifinex have, uh, intention to use, uh,
zero knowledge proof to, um, to support your KYC service?
You know, it's, uh, uh, yeah, uh, after all, it's a, it's a good way and effective method
to anti-bolts, to anti-spam.
Yeah, I think it is, uh, maybe it's a, uh, effective method to, uh, to improve your, your, your,
uh, Digifinex users' experience.
Uh, I believe that is complete, completely up to our, uh, compliance team.
But, um, as, at Digifinex, we're, um, definitely, um, you know, study and dig deeper into the,
um, zero knowledge proof aspect of the, uh, blockchain.
But, uh, for that question, I cannot answer you currently.
So, uh, um, Matthew, do you have, uh, do you, do you want to speak on something about
Uh, it's, it's pretty much the same answer as I've had for everything else.
It's, it's not what we're doing.
Um, and, uh, yeah, we went in a pretty different direction.
You know, uh, from, from, from my aspects, you know, I'm, uh, I'm a user of BigTime.
There's so many, so many, so many users in BigTime.
We just have fun enjoying BigTime.
So I think, uh, maybe it's some, uh, uh, some, some, some useful, some useful, um, uh,
as for BigTime to use, uh, their, uh, knowledge to protect our, uh, to protect users' identity information
and, uh, as a security, just like me, you know.
Uh, in the future, I think, uh, the, uh, so much transaction in game, in game time,
where, where, where, where, yeah, so much, uh, transaction would happen in BigTime.
So I think that would be a good thing for BigTime.
Let's jump into the last question.
Uh, the last question, um, I think is a good, good method to, uh, as an ending of our, uh, uh,
The question is future outlook of, uh, zero, uh, zero knowledge proof in website gaming.
Uh, Phil, do you have, uh, will you be the first one here to answer some questions?
Uh, well, very broad question, but just to make a few comments on that.
I mean, first of all, to repeat what I said earlier.
We're just getting started with ZK at the app layer.
So I think you'll see a round of adoption over the next six, 12 months of what's available now.
Um, and like I say, you can build a ZK app based game already, um, without being a cryptographer using our SDK, which is called snarky JS.
So, you know, take a look at my Twitter profile and, um, you should see links to that and obviously just DM me if you need any, any help there.
Um, and by the way, the Mina ecosystem is running a, uh, a new cohort for builders called ZK Ignite cohort two, uh, that if you're a builder out there and you want to build a ZK app game, you can apply to for, uh, mentoring.
And, uh, other program benefits.
Um, but anyway, I think we'll see, it's just coming on stream now.
I think we'll see a round of ZK apps built, uh, for games in the next six, 12 months.
Um, you can also, you know, I mean, I, I, I sort of put ZK infrastructure in a box at the start of this call.
Um, but that's not to, you know, understate its importance.
And, you know, one of the other things that you can do with our tech is build a DAP chain.
So, you know, you can build a roll up that you could have a game on.
There could be no ZK in the sense of, you know, privacy or anything.
You could have a regular game running on the, on the DAP chain.
Um, and just, you could be doing it for efficiency and gas cost saving reasons.
Um, we may see more and more, uh, DAP chains for games over the next six months, uh, six, 12 months.
So I think those are both possibilities there.
Um, I do think, as I say, you know, the casino game market is absolutely right for, uh, ZK apps.
So I'm, I'm really keen to, you know, when anybody's out there and they're in the industry and they know how to navigate the regulations in particular,
then, uh, definitely keen to talk to anybody who's interested in that.
And, uh, uh, you know, um, well, I play playing, playing some stuff for this to the space.
And I just check, check the paper.
Uh, yeah, which is what, what in the pie?
And, uh, in, in the article, you're, you're just, uh, appendix to the, uh, the gates, uh,
the, uh, gate, gate books link about, about the, the, the, the work of, uh, of your stuff.
Uh, really, uh, anticipating, uh, the, the, the, the test, the test notes over, of your projects fail.
And, uh, uh, uh, yeah, yeah.
I think it's, um, I want to be so great.
So, uh, Vivian, do you, do you have, uh, do you want to share something?
Share your great insight about this kind of quick question?
Um, so at the different X, um, the future outlook for ZK application in web three game is very
And as the technology continues to, um, to, to, to develop and evolve, we can expect to
see even, um, greater adoption and innovative use cases.
And, uh, here are some key aspects to, uh, consider besides game integrity verification,
um, enhanced trust and security, uh, transparent gaming environments.
And I also, uh, add a few such as cross gaming, um, interoperability and ZK can really facilitate
cross game, um, interoperability by enabling the, um, secure exchange of assets and data between
different web three games and, uh, players will have the ability to seamlessly transfer
their in-game assets or achievements across multiple games or even, you know, uh, decentralized,
uh, NFT, uh, marketplace or even centralized one and enhancing the overall gaming experience
and promoting more, you know, uh, user engagement.
And another key aspect would be decentralized governance and, uh, community involvement.
And ZK will continue to empower decentralized governance models in current web three games
by, uh, utilizing ZK for secure and private voting system.
Um, players can actively, uh, participate and engage in shaping the direction and development
And this just, um, optimize the bond between, uh, developers and players and fostering a more,
um, inclusive and community driven gaming ecosystem.
Thank you for your question.
I think Vivian's answers are two different aspects.
We can know that ZK can be used to protect our privacy and, uh, as a transform process.
And then Vivian mentioned that this can be used to develop a voting system that can protect
Again, I think it's really cool.
And, uh, Matthew, do you want to add any, any thoughts about this?
For us, the main feedback we got when it came to like web three gaming stuff was the relatively
kind of low quality of gameplay that was out there circa 2020 into 2021.
And so we really focused on trying to address that, um, because we felt like without a real
focus on, on gameplay, then they kind of the rest of the crypto additions you can add into
it wouldn't really be enough to keep some users around.
So that's the direction we kind of went in.
So that's for a lot of this stuff.
I'm like, uh, it sounds incredible, but for us, we really kind of followed what the
gamers seem to want the most, which was like, Hey, we really wanted to focus on the game
Um, but yeah, uh, everything else sounds super cool.
And, uh, I think what gamers really want is also a very important part of building games.
That's all for the questions about of the today.
And then we will go on into the Q and A session.
I would like to thank our guests again for your wonderful sharing.
Um, and, uh, now audience can raise your hands to ask questions that you are interested in.
I see that one of our audience is already linking connecting.
Do you, Ossas, do you have any questions to ask of our guests today?
You already have the mic.
you already have the mic okay we'll move on to the next one i think maybe he's disconnected now
yeah yeah yeah i i just i just uh sorry you just stick up stick up do you have a do you have any
question for phil yeah i think i think phil would be a great great really for me sorry you just kind
of kind of uh failed so do you have any questions for phil hello am i audible
hello am i audible yeah yeah yeah please feel free to ask a question yeah okay thank you very much for
bringing me up to speak i just want to know like uh looking at for that we're in the beer market
what strategy do you think it has actually worked so far for you in gaining mass adoption
do you think this need improving or adopting a new strategy is needed based on marketing situation
i'm not sure i'm a good person to answer that i think one of the other panelists might be better
because we're i mean bear in mind oh on labs we're offering a sdk for building building apps ck apps so
we're kind of a little off the cycle of the market overall we're introducing a new building capability
um it's probably a better question for one of the other panelists who are you know deeply involved in
the in the game app side hello everyone
hello hello so i wanted to ask if like you know most web3 games is it like they take time before
they make them because most games are looking like games that it was something that was rushed because
like at the end of the day they are always bugs there and then it turns out that after a while playing
you don't just like to play them anymore so like can improvements be made to games before like they
are pushed out for people to play um i don't i don't think i have the um answer did you get my question
yes i did but we're an exchange and then we support you know uh web3 game projects but yeah we can hear you
yeah host maybe we can move to the next question
how did you guys get my question
hello bro i i found maybe there's something network from your side uh could you repeat your question
again so i was saying like the gaming industry most games i'm playing on web3 like it's looking like
something they quickly rushed so like the devs the developers can they like take more time in
producing their games because like okay okay i got the question actually we we we talk about a lot of uh
times about your question i think a question is um it's a big problem i think everyone in this industry
in we were in we were three gaming industry we're facing this kind of a problem uh that this question
is uh the core is irrelevant with the logic bn's model of web3 gaming you know what i mean um you know
the usher infinite is a great and um remote to the web3 gaming but um uh we after after usher infinite we
cannot and figure out and figure out the other variable more bn's model you know what i mean the p2r is
not uh great uh or you should be saying it's not a uh complete bn's model which means uh uh a project
a web3 project cannot cannot uh uh cannot keep running in uh variable time uh yeah you this question is um
um it's uh it's uh it's uh it's uh industrial problem you know they uh as for the web3 gaming
builder we're facing uh something difficult the other uh the other builders uh who who just uh
work in silo in other fields just uh nft or d5 or or or uh or matterverse you know the question is
we need to do a great balance between the tokenomic and the the in-game the game the in-game economic
system you you need to make your tokenomic uh uh deflation because you you you wanna you want you
want to hold your area profit so the tokenomic is that is a definition but but the in-game the in-game
economic system is is inflation you can say it's a paradox it's a it's a difficult barrier the area
one need to spend them time to to overcome it but we uh currently we we cannot we cannot finish we
cannot overcome this kind of problem so so so you you can just find there's so so so many uh web3
projects just like a pool because we because it's the the logic the base problem is is relevant with the
basic bne's model you may i make myself friendly clearly
okay okay okay okay please feel free to speak a question
okay can you hear me hey bro yes i can hear you can you hear me
yeah all right so can i go on with my question now yeah yeah okay lovely
okay so okay um i think the part i would like to ask about okay okay obviously we only like
cross-chain interability is like a crucial part of like evolving the web scale um the web 3 gaming
landscape enabling seamless asset transaction and like interaction between different blockchain
technologies yeah and also zero knowledge prove us emerge as a powerful tool for like challenging
cross-chain interability while maintaining a data privacy and security so like my question would be
like okay how does um zkp like enable us to approve ownership of assets across multiple blockchains without
like revealing private keys or sensitive data and also like what are the notable benefits that like
um zkp brings to the gaming ecosystem in terms of like flustering liquidity expanding players opportunities
and like enhancing your experience so that would be my question hope you guys heard everything i said
uh i think phil would be the the better the better one to to answer this kind of question phil do you
have an intention to answer this kind of question yeah well let me um yeah that's a pretty big i think
there's like three big questions in one so but they're all they're all good questions um let me
start off i mean the first one so uh the basics of proving um you know ownership of an nt for example
without doxing your wallet or even the individual nft that you own you can sort of prove that you know
i own a board eight i'm not going to tell you what wallets in i'm not going to tell you which
which is which is the board eight collection it is um you essentially what you the way that you would
do that is you um you you prove that you control a wallet address that owns that nft um by you know
signing a uh uh signing a message um and then putting it into a zk some zk code that essentially
looks at what you've signed and says yep whoever this person is wherever their wallet we're not
going to tell you where they're which that what their wallet addresses or which um nft they own
specifically but we can yeah this this code is uh has looked at that and uh we can make a statement
to say yep they own a board ape and you then can just send that statement with the uh with the zk
proof that the code executed correctly to whoever needs to receive it um now the question is how you
get it to the you know the right chain and you know with our code and with our sdk you can do that and
send it directly to the mina chain um and then right now and they'll you know likely be more bridges
in the future but you know the mina ecosystem is working on uh you know bridge ideas and the first
bridge that they've actually been working on along with the ethereum foundation is a message bridge
that essentially puts the whole of the mina state uh back on to ethereum so you could get that proof
back into ethereum and likely in future you'll be able to do that on on future chains so that's kind
of the mechanics of how proving ownership of an nft works in a privacy preserving way um
um yeah i see you i think as one of the other panelists said you know you can use zk to
essentially prove state from one chain to another um and that could be useful in the future for
cross-chain liquidity um you kind of need i think you sort of also need things like escrow contact
contracts to achieve that so you know if i have some tokens on one chain i don't want to use you know
zk state proofs to in some way make them available on another chain or allow them to to do things with
me based on the existence of those tokens if there needs to be some kind of recourse like those tokens
end up going to somebody else if you know i lose a game then the tokens need to be locked in some way
so you know zk is a really good enabling technology there to prove safe from one chain to another
you need some other things around it like you know something that will control and uh lock and then
subsequently release the tokens based on an instruction set uh i'm going to see to my other panelists to
for any further answers to that question
and thanks for the answer it's a really technical question and i think this answer is really professional
then jason you already have the mic do you have any questions for our guest
hello can you hear me yeah yeah okay um so my question is um in regards from basically from your
point of view um what do you think of the potential rigs or limitations that are actually
and um associated with integrating zero knowledge proofing to uh most web tree games and also how do you
you think is coming also mitigated
uh hi hi sorry sorry sorry maybe maybe i'm frozen uh bros could you could you repeat the question okay
uh okay uh my question basically is in regards to potential rigs or limitations that may be associated with um actually integrating um zero knowledge
um zero knowledge proofing to most web tree games um so how do you think it's kind of
natural gaming to get there uh uh maybe this kind of question is uh it is over my my knowledge
area uh phil do you have any idea about this kind of question
uh yeah again it's pretty pretty broad question um i think well i'm just gonna cheat a bit and say
and i was gonna play off your integration point um i actually think the right way to
use zk in games is to actually rather than you know taking an existing game and trying to infuse
it with zk uh necessarily um i mean you can do that especially with the kind of augmentative
technologies that you know me and emily and vivian talked about like you know voting all that stuff
you can do and you can integrate into an existing game but if you want something that uses zk
zk for the actual game mechanics um and you know has elements of the game that are running off chain
within zk wrappers i think you should start over and build that new um because you're just going to
be able to achieve a lot like that um and that's why we've built our sdk to be you know javascript
based and accessible to a regular developer but you're going to be able to build some very cool new
things if you just start over and build uh from scratch using uh a zk sdk uh rather than trying
to you know change the game mechanics of an existing game uh but there are things that as i say that you'll
be able to do around an existing game that uh could help for with community building and privacy preserving
uh credentialing so yeah those are all i think going to be possible
uh okay um thanks so much for the answer okay okay uh at this time uh i would like to announce that
the q a session is finished so now yes so glad to uh so glad to uh your time and thanks for the
amazing answer from video um we will announce and announce the q a winners in our discord community uh
community community community so if you wanna declare declare your your price and please join our
discord and they came your price okay thanks for your time i i think um it's uh at the end of uh this
amazing uh i would like to yes thanks for for your sense for me and that's for mad you to uh yeah your
pleasure time to join us to respond to your space and uh really appreciate your your amazing insight to
widen my horizon about this kind of video thank you yeah so you can say so so uh i appreciate your time
yeah so i appreciate your your your work thank you