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Humanode Founders’ Talk with Dato & Victor
Recorded: July 18, 2025 Duration: 0:58:00Space Recording
Short Summary
Innovative discussions at Founders Talk reveal exciting developments in the crypto space, including the launch of a new blockchain project focused on human health, the introduction of lending products in DeFi, and emerging trends towards uncollateralized loans, all aimed at enhancing user engagement and financial accessibility.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Music Thank you. Продолжение следует... We're a speaker now.
All right, guys. Can you hear us? I'll play again. We're a speaker now.
All right, guys.
Can you hear us?
Hopefully again.
Yes, we can.
Great.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to Founders Talk, where founders of human, just hang out and talk about stuff they want.
Mostly for our own selfish purposes.
Sometimes connected to human health, sometimes not.
Sometimes not at all.
I suggest that we give like a minute or two for more people to pull up.
They don't, well, we we're just gonna begin without them
so there's so many things surrounding human health and sometimes it just feels that there's
too much doesn't it?
I mean you know compare the size of our team and so many things that we're doing right
now simultaneously doesn't feel like that well we're used to that yeah but some of our readers and investors say
that the number of things we do there is overwhelming even to comprehend but somehow
we're delivering them they're overwhelming for some, but we just have separate teams working on stuff
from the same mecha system.
But if you look at it, you can tell that there's like several projects in one in human
node, right?
Yeah, well, you can always think about human node chain as an infrastructure and the other
things we build are kind of on top of it already
or part of our system despite the fact that there are not only external teams working in our
ecosystem and of course uh well our internal teams working on products consumer pacing ones as well
So what can we say that is a part of like the core level of human node from all the
infrastructure that we have delivered?
That we have delivered or we have to deliver?
That we have delivered.
Well, the core part is of course the blockchain, the nodes, the biometrification of the nodes.
Egalitarian consensus where one person has just one weight in the consensus, not 10 times more than the other.
This is the core part of all that. So, like, crypto biometrics and the consensus.
Yeah. consensus yeah surely makes sense to count on those but how would the evolution of human health
go if we for example didn't focus on other things uh throughout this time and only concentrating on
those two no one knows no one knows but no one knows could have been better it could have been worse can we contemplate like for example returning to the
uh notion of collective authority oh yes next for example exploring a more um like less
hardware dependent solutions for biometrics yeah that would make our chain very insecure
even at this point of time like 4.5 years later after we started building
because it is really hard to train especially on partially chromomorphic encryption
and euro biometric neural network where would it be in well we probably would
have enough accuracy for 1000 validators but we would not be able to handle any more
scalable use cases like we had with the discord and consumer facing airdrops but
we would be in another position probably you know if we had more resources we could do all of it
so i'm just saying you know for how long do you think we as a foundation have to maintain the
basic defy infra ourselves basic defining infra why are the bias taker pools and those
separation pools are made by the core team
where it's actually developing consensus and that's because we had an idea to develop it
nobody did it before and uh yeah we decided to make something novel not just do liquidity mining
because all of the projects do and this is not the reason. It is liquidity mining, which is non-linear. So it is different.
It's just because we dedicated a use case team
inside our engineering team, product team.
And that's why we're developing these things, you know?
If we didn't have use case team,
case team of course
of course, we could have done something else.
we could have done something else
also
thinking you know
non-line like non-line
EALP staking right
that kind of slashes
big accounts
accounts
been a case study for how long now?
almost two years right?
yeah almost two years
I mean I think it's
sufficient data and experience to try and implement it somewhere else yeah well people
from other foundations wanted it in their chain this is some of them yes but you don't see a lot
mainstream uh uh platforms talking about non-linear civil resistance liquid provisioning for pools yeah they wanted
our stuff they don't want to build theirs but yeah well even by taking our
it's like open source code so you can take you can take it and you can
implement it pretty fast um it'll be just interesting to see people like
caring about civil resistance in this case.
You know in this case we have to prove people that this is a winning scheme because what other
foundations sometimes focus on is TVL for instance right and you know disproportional
rewards do they increase TVL when the small ones get more than the big ones?
Or it is the opposite? It just decentralizes the pool participation.
In the real capitalistic world, do you think a non-linear civil resistant pool can have more TVL than a pool that's for civil accounts through or like where you don't need civil accounts
because you have just a linear increase in rewards from the same account like how would
this pool have more money if the bigger guys always would want to go to the pool that rewards
them linear before the size and then I was in them to take over well i'm talking about the even more
at least in stuff when they disproportionately earn more than the small guys well maybe that
would be a great use case for this disproportionately earn more yes of course if you are the biggest
holder of the pool you get in percentages more than the others that's true that's true that we never did such an
experiment because it's kind of goes against our goals of decentralization of the pool but
this is something that others would want to and this is easy to configure but like you just change
the face value here uh for civil resistant LP staking uh where you see the trade-off if you're implementing such a thing like do you make
a pool more resilient yeah you do make it more yes prone to rugs less prone to rugs no no why
well in order to be prone to rugs if this is the money of the person who launched the
pool and launched the token, you have to lock your liquidity in a smart contract.
That's the only way or burn it.
This is a nice protection against rug pool.
In case of Biostaker, the foundation doesn't put any money to Biostaker, not to steal the
rewards of the community from it.
So are you talking about right pulled by a big
investor usually it happens by the developers not by the investor uh by collusion of the developers
and big investors right and if the liquidity provisioning is more decentralized on humans
it means that you need to collude with more people to actually uh rock pool something so if
you could take two big investors into the pool just cut it with one another and just date to
pump your point and then just take out okay well this is not another full like rock pool but it's
pump and dump skin yeah well you're pulling the rug because you're flushing out liquidity on highs and that's it.
Okay, well, basically the probability of the rug pool is much higher when you have a few people that can collude and take out liquidity at the same time, which is not the case with what we have right now so of course we're more resilient to this as far as i know from the pool of our investors there are no big ones sitting in the liquidity pool but
medium to small ones who appreciate the scheme and they're still the biggest they're still the
biggest but it's not enough for them to make any damage when they withdraw the funds to
well anyway so and we still have liquidity on centralized exchanges things like that
well centralized exchanges yes i'm just talking about the decentralized pool liquidity right yeah
true true it is you pretend that in a system where there are hundreds of agents that have to collude it's much harder to
carry out such an attack all right um victor then returning to um the theme of our growing ecosystem
right uh we're here like one year earlier i think which we're talking about um all the necessary
talking about um all the necessary filaments of um mature l1 like basic defy like basic
l1 infra that should be there so did we get any of that
you're saying no well we have a bridge yeah we got it a few years ago almost, right?
Yes.
But we do have one, right?
We have a little bit supervision right now.
We got bridge, we got decks,
Univ2, Skyo, two of those.
Not only go, we got Uniswap decks.
We got oracles.
We got DeFi tooling.
Kind of, yeah. oracles uh we got defy tooling finally yeah uh we don't have a dedicated nft marketplace yet yet
where is it by the way where is it yeah well you i mean the community doesn't know about it yet
but uh there are people building it right now we hope hope they will succeed. We really hope they will succeed.
Well, would you say the NFT marketplace is like,
very crucial, it's not DeFi infra or is it?
I mean, it's assets, right?
And they have value.
Yeah, actually, for example, if we had the uni v3 style decks uh each position there is an nft
which you can basically trade there you go yep but nobody does that people just with raw liquidity
so they feel safer like that yeah
so yeah the missing piece that we don't have yet is the money markets, lending and borrowing.
How would you see the first lending product?
Lend what?
Lend what?
Lend humanoid borrow stablecoins.
The basic thing.
So, in a market like this, what would you think would be the borrowing rate?
Oh, it will be pretty high, suppose, yeah. The rates will be high.
You would be putting in a lot of HUMD to carry out some stables right now.
Yeah, but it's still risky.
Risky?
Risky, risky.
Borrowing rate also depends on leverage you take.
The less leverage, the less the borrowing rate, because the risk is lower.
What would be the rate? I have no idea.
I never, to be honest, risked my altcoins to put them as collateral,
given the volatility of them.
It would make sense to do so on the falling market, right?
Well, no, on the falling market you don't want to catch a knife
and be liquidated it makes sense to do when you think the bottom and you can be always wrong so
why would you it's a risky game tokens it's a collateral on the bear market why because uh
you don't want to sell your tokens to provide for let's say living if you run out of cash reserves
to sell your tokens to provide for let's say leaving if you run out of cash reserves
and you basically put them as a collateral because you think you can go down further
you're putting in an option to buy up your tokens you'll get stables and loss like for
example you're putting 100 and you're getting like 50 or
60 years instead yeah but you still got your coins you're not selling them you got still 100
of your tokens not 90 because you had to sell only if you return the cash though
only if you return the cash now but these markets work uh most likely thanks to
But these markets work most likely thanks to different DeFi complex schemes where you have staked ETH,
where you have some kind of stable coin that is also bearing yield.
And eventually it's all about the yield because both borrowers Thank you. Okay, we can use my microphone for now.
Do we hear you, though?
Yeah, yeah.
I can see that people can hear me.
Yes, we can hear you, Victor.
Nice, nice.
That was a...
Technically, she wants to get damn ick. All right, just continuing here, Victor.
So we're talking about the LP pool, right, that we have. And now we have talked about
the loan platform that our Defi system lacks, you know, because what what would open up for for example HMD holders
today like what abilities would give them like 35,000 holders so what could
they do with such a platform well depending on the lending fees, lenders could lend their USDC for those who want to take USDC against their collateral in GMD.
So it's a two-sided marketplace.
I expect there could be big APY for the lenders of stablecoins.
And, well, borrowers are taking a risky position.
But I know some people who
are sitting right now in this call who would love to take the risks of borrowing stablecoins
against instrumented.
This is like the basic thing of money markets there.
So in which stance do you think would be for the potential lendees, those who take it, right, to actually collateralize HMD and take out stable coins?
For borrowers, you mean?
For borrowers, yes.
Would now be a good opportunity.
It all depends on your market expectations. I would say, yeah, not the worst time when you have at least a week of growth, but it's
all about market cycles.
Do you expect the price to fall down twice?
If yes, I wouldn't risk it.
Now how would the pool look like? Would it look like putting money in LP with BioStaker?
It actually could be. Your BioStake tokens, if we create a derivative of your BioStake tokens,
because right now they are simply locked in a smart contract that gives you rewards. If you don't lock your LP tokens in a smart contract you get
nothing right now and you can't use these tokens further in the DeFi ecosystem
but if we produce, create the derivative of the LP tokens which are staked then
you could also use this as a collateral actually it would be less volatile than
HMD itself so maybe it's even better to use it and it
could earn rewards at the same time yes and the civil resistance would of course
increase what the same collusionist effect for pulling out liquidity from a
death pool or what else like why would it be important in any way to civil
resist like personal resistance on those who actually pull liquidity into such a
full wait well allow their funds to be blended do they have to be biometrically
verified that's not I'm
not sure about it yeah money markets pretty much don't need civil resistance
unless they want new features like having the your borrowers or lenders
score getting higher with time and then having better rates than others or
having some discounts on these rates.
So this is when civil resistance would be good for the money markets,
like lending protocols.
So it would definitely make sense from the borrower's side, right?
In terms of credit score yes in terms of building partially
culturalized or fully unculturalized right yeah well the fully unculturalized
loans is something I actually spoke with one team. They never made it because there was no civil resistance.
That's always the real title.
And they really understand that if you know exactly the statistics
on how awful people do not give back their no-collateralized loans,
let's say, of 20-30 bucks that you can take for your gas fees
if you run out of gas okay that would be pretty popular feature among people who have tokens on
their wallet but they don't really have ethereum and gas to pay for transaction or swap and if you know exactly how many people do not return this twenty thirty
dollars then you can actually well solve the problem economically by making the
rates for borrowing this unculturalized loans higher and the system would just
continue working just the rates will go higher if people don't return the money
back to the protocol so it's not a hard protocol to do, to be honest, especially for small loans.
And given the fact that if you at the same time can insure this with an insurance company,
and there is on-chain insurance,
then you can get an even better model of very small, completely un-crotilized loans
with civil resistance and without any KYC.
So if we envision such a system, yes, I would see something like a reputational system inside and also the invariant of
biometric verification to provide liveness and uniqueness to each borrower
yeah you can always count the longitude of the biometric verification throughout
generations I mean half a year
generations that we have. And it would probably look something like a person is
building reputation by making loans. And also as a social graph could he get
vouched by others? Yes. As a person who kind of has nice salary that's why he can
repay the loan back. Yeah it's like one of the nice salary that's why he can repay the loan back yeah it's like one of the principles
in that hypothetical reputation system that you would be able to take many uh like data streams
into analyzing whether you're going to allow partial collateralization or uncollateralization for this user. But we're talking about uncollateralization.
It's like high reputation, good history, good social growth standing,
simple resistance, and making as a protocol,
like giving the uncollateralized amount equal to the profits that you have made on a single
unit of a user already so that you are in balance you're always in plus you can
as a protocol lose only the already margin that you kind of got from
dealing with it some user counting each user is computationally harder of course than the whole system.
But it's possible. Yes, like you would see that you are with each deal that you're making with
some user you're getting more and more profits and so certain threshold that kind of covers the
cost of this unit in your economy and then you allow only to
like uncollateralize the amount that already already kind of raised and made
on this certain unit. Yeah as actually like social trust graph layer between the
people we could just get the data from circles you know then people could provide other
kinds of data circles is a project by the way yeah
there's no no a pretty fun one monitor experiment go look it up and well many
other places as well in crypto we could take this data and use it to build such a protocol.
So, Dago, do you think that there will be finally somebody in the space
who is building such a protocol,
or we will still be waiting for years for these people to be born?
I don't know, man.
It just seems to me that the whole, well, part of the culturalization, there's plenty of projects like that, that are also very compliant with insurance companies and the regulatory framework they're working with.
I was hoping to see more projects that are working on uncollateralized loans.
Like if everybody knows in the depth side of this industry
that building scalable, secure, uncollateralized loan scheme
is like a holy grail for Web3.
Yeah, the only thing you have to do is to make it easier to get small money than from the banks.
And that's it.
You're pretty much competing with microfinancing organizations who are sometimes not even banks
and charge a lot of money and, you know, come to your house, knock on your door if you don't give it back.
And these guys have crazy returns.
They have crazy interest rates.
And I think this is a great market.
Just keep the loans small.
Increase them only for long-term
customers. Do things like that. Start
without a lot of risks.
That's the way to go.
Then you figure out
the economic model and you just start
getting revenue non-stop
For the community just saying if there was such a project check the human health ecosystem
Then I would incubate and help it out personally
The other resources that we have VCs would love it VCs would love it
Yeah, and here's the thing right so we were thinking about PCs would love it. Yeah.
And here's the thing, right?
So we were thinking about building a first bio DeFi solution
to show the world and the market
how civil resistance actually enhances the DeFi space.
How it can be used in the DeFi.
Yes, and like we chose LP staking, right? We didn't choose like a debt scheme.
Why? Because it's a more... Why? Because it's more... what? It's a more basic
infrastructure than law? You know, of course, the liquidity is the basis of any finance side.
That's what brings liquidity.
I'll just say, for example, instead of creating DEXs, right?
Although I'm just thinking how would this work without DEXs.
But regardless, instead of building a buy sticker, for example, we'll choose to, you know what, let's build this first biometric lending-based service that allows you to reach uncollateralized loans with some form of social gravity.
But I think it's much, much harder.
I think it's much easier than to build a market like, for example, Avidas or all other projects.
It's a whole project.
Of course it's a whole project.
It's like a whole separate big project.
Because your system, your imputation system also has to be dynamic.
Yeah, your risk system has to be adjusted all the time and watched over with multiple dashboards.
It's also to be dynamic and there's a lot of work to do.
I mean, AVI succeeded because they have awesome risk assessment of their models and of course
security, but the first thing was the main thing. Their markets just work because how
they calculated?
So yes, well, I personally believe that the ALP stake in this regard is...
It's a more ground infrastructure than the loans themselves.
Yeah, because it kind of powers circulation and decentralized liquidity of an asset and this is already a higher level for certain
operations. Yeah you can always buy with the lower sleepers than on centralized
exchanges. It's already better than centralized exchanges in that sense
well well slippage uh well if if a centralized exchange has bigger liquidity yeah of course but currently is not the case it's not the case for many projects as well, especially new ones.
For what exactly? Well, before you released it on a very, let's say,
fat exchange like Coinbase or Binance, where you have tens of thousands of dollars of liquidity
on each side, usually DAX is the most efficient way to build the depth of the
order book.
Yeah. Are there any other financial apps that you were thinking about?
The one that you're secretly right? No, it's not financial. It's almost, I don't want to say meme coin, human coin.
We're not going to reveal it today, right?
I can, I mean, I don't care.
If somebody wants to build it, you're welcome.
Because this is a project where you pretty much, as a developer, should not earn any money.
Unless you're, I don't know, speculating on on your token which is not the financial advice to do so and yeah basically the idea is a
project is pretty simple how it has no name no yeah human this but this was
double oh yeah was a was a funny name of the role on some Discord server that adopted BotBasher.
Nice.
Yes.
And it probably was used in a really big airdrop.
That's why I remember it.
So, yeah, it's called Human because one human can get just one token.
So you should go, mint one token.
You can sell it.
You can mint one more, of course, in half a year, because that's
how our Biomapper works. If we're talking about simple functionality that, with all
the proposals that Dato did, he will tell you about it later. You can judge us what's
better. And yeah, there are as many tokens in circulation as many people claim the tokens so that's that's the end so it's
like basic human project right yeah where you can meet one token with your
bio verification every six months yeah so maybe to get more transactions you
can mint it every week you know your time like the mission of this coin yeah to the amount of people in the generation of
our CVM. Well no anybody can come. Yeah like the amount of like enrollments are
done successfully. You know of course there will be more people in Biomapper
than in this app. For sure yes but, but the maximum amount is this one, right?
The maximum amount is the amount that the CVMs can handle, which is a few million people, given the scalability of FaceTime.
Yes, but I mean in the scale of Hooman.
In the scale of Hooman, it can grow indefinitely when people claim it.
So you add every generation the amount of people who successfully enrolled and came to
minted coin.
Well, every minted coin is in addition to the total supply, it grows all the time.
And so the emission is like a percentage of people who are bio-verified in this generation.
No, just if the person is bio-verified in this generation,
it can come claim.
At the moment of claim, a new token is minted.
I know. That's what I mean.
So, it is equal to a certain
percentage of conversion
from bio-verified people.
Yeah, they should be bio-verified.
If there's 100,000 people in this generation
and nobody else came in this generation. Yeah.
And nobody else came in this generation.
Okay.
So, for example, this is the maximum amount.
This is true, yeah.
If we don't use other verification methods, but we won't.
So there's going to be a certain conversion percentage, right?
From the generation.
Yeah, if people know about it.
Or, for example, they know about it.
Yeah, it will be probably inside Biomapper in one of the apps that use Biomapper.
So they will find about it.
So how many people do you think will convert from a generation?
Oh my god, I have no idea.
It depends on how hard people will shield this application for other people to...
But it makes the ability very low.
Very low at the beginning. Because we have thousands other people. But it makes the liquidity very low. Very low at the beginning. Yeah, because we have thousands of people. But it will grow and grow non-stop.
It's fractional. Yeah, so I had the question, right? Why do we have WorldCoin that basically,
yes, gives money to people? Yes. Pretty much by either by taking from the treasury or minting from the new token supply it doesn't matter
but there are part of the coins that go to the people who once a month means the three bucks
that world coin gives you however a huge part of the supply is in the hands of vcs who dump on you
so this is pretty much the same world coin scheme scheme, which is a simple airdrop, nothing else that you have to claim, but without VCs, you know, which is great.
Because the infrastructure, it's kind of, it's on human health, that's why it's decentralized and you don't pay, you know, through the selling pressure from VCs, owning thousands of human human tokens while they're not human
they just bought it in advance. That's what I'm saying. I think there was no
token like that yet. Would be fun but I would not bet my life savings on it. On
always minting and inflating token.
inflating total.
Because apparently there is no value accrual mechanism for it.
Well, emissions in the world is not connected to a matter of verified people
directly.
It's more attributable...
Yeah, because these guys increase and decrease the number of rewards all the time.
Sometimes they got like 20 bucks, now I got 2 bucks.
So they just give money to people when they scan...
Sometimes they give money to people who scan their face in the US more than in other countries.
So it's very arbitrary in their case.
More strict rules here.
One person, one token.
So I think it's better than one point.
To keep people engaged.
Do you think that we should allow people to claim not every six months but every month?
Every month? That's a lot. But people will forget about the app in six months but every month. Every month?
Yeah, that's a lot.
But people will forget about the app in six months and never open it again.
Why?
Because people have short memory but if it's every month with notification on your phone,
it can work.
But what do you feel are the principles that the system inherits because its emission is tied to a amount of bioreification?
I have no idea. This sounds like a very bad currency.
But it doesn't mean that the bad currency won't work.
Right now fiat is also a very bad currency where emission is dependent on the loans people take from any bank in the world.
This is just different. People just claim money. They don't get take from any bank in the world. You know? This is just different.
People just claim money.
They don't get loans from the bank.
And this is another type of money creation.
They claim the money because they exist.
Yeah.
If they claim a weird asset, I wouldn't call it money.
But maybe that's how a national financial system should work, you know.
Just people can claim something from the government because they exist every month.
And they pay for it, they pay for their basic needs, like maybe even healthcare using this
money.
If healthcare is private? Of course I expect if a lot of people from buyer
mapper come and claim it right because you won't just if you're buyer map right
you can go and claim this one token. Yeah. Are you going to have and that's
there's going to be a liquidity pool or something? Yeah users can later up the liquidity pool, the ones who have more than one token bought other tokens, right?
They can actually earn from it if they buy let's say 100 tokens, which will be at least let's say 100 dollars.
Then they will be the first ones who set up the liquidity pool and they will be earning from the trading fees in this pool.
But I think it should be totally decentralized.
And the contract should be mutable ideally.
Without any upgrades.
Like Satoshi wanted, you know.
And we're also gaining one coin, right?
You're also gaining one coin.
Of course, Of course.
I will get the second one in six months or in a month. I don't know.
You know, we could actually build a DAO on the human one coin.
So we could actually build a DAO, yeah, but the DAO will be token-rated.
Yeah. Because if you can buy voting power,
you simply buy voting power
by buying people's tokens
and they don't have it anymore.
But...
Oh, yeah.
This can be set up on...
This DAO can be set up
in a week as well.
It's easier to... You don't even need to integrate by
a mapper to DAO tooling, you just track the number of tokens and snapshot.
You can do that, then the government's going to be taken away instantly.
But you know that actually makes sense now to buy tokens. It's a functionality for the
token. Now it's not that useless. But what would you govern with it?
I don't know.
The change of the website?
There is nothing to govern in this project, right?
If the smart contract is immutable and unupgradeable.
There is no reason for this coin to have any other reason beyond the failure respect to a bio verification.
Yeah, it's just limited by the number of humans, multiplied by the number of generations. So, I was thinking like maybe if there was a system that would somehow eliminate the
remaining, the older generations from the monetary representation of itself.
So that they don't accrue, right?
So that every generation you have like a new meeting section.
Every generation you can have a new token.
What?
Yeah, it will be like human two, which is interchangeable with the first one.
Which is not, well, one to one.
Why would hand one hand a value?
Well, you want to burn it anyway, so that's what you're proposing to get rid of the value of the previous generation.
You can have one coin and just burn somehow proportionally the supply that was just a remainder from the previous generation.
What is a remainder from the previous generation?
Like you know how many coins you had in the previous generation.
And you know how many new generation claims you have right now.
And they just wither away.
Slowly or through certain mechanisms.
... or certain mechanism.
Because then you are keeping the balancing representation of this invariant.
It's a strange thing.
I think you can only balance it with persistent identity.
The easier way to do it.
Persistent identity, yes.
But in these cases, it won't be a secure identity.
You know, maybe it even makes sense
to make the tokens non-transferable
after the claim during the first three months
to get, you know, the initial critical mass of the people
before it can be transferred and traded.
All the interesting places it can later appear as an instrument.
And it would be so interesting to look at it knowing what emission system it is built
on, how would it behave?
Yeah, the thing is that we're trying at Humano to build sound systems of emission
so that we do not have deflation of the system, but at the same time we don't allow for a lot of inflation
and devaluation of holders of the currency.
But it's not how the current traditional system works and maybe we should create more
let's say weird and
Irrational systems, and that's the only way people will use them
Maybe We go to him and come out of course not we're doing a cost-based system and
A fast-based system for a mission so this is the experiment that Victor is
running here and I'll be pretty interesting to see such a small project
being deployed I would definitely go and get my coin.
But what would I do with it after that?
That would be a wonder.
Vita, actually, I think it sounds more like less coin than just NFT.
It can be NFT, it doesn't matter.
But the thing is, it's...
It matters.
It's actually fungible
because it's the same for different people. If it's NFT you can add like a
picture of yourself or some symbol. Well maybe it will make it more
valuable. But then if you make a coin out of it, it makes it much more liquid.
So much more.
It just tracks as a number.
So you mean you could have two options, right?
Just create a fungible token that you can sell or hold or whatever,
or create an NFT out of your Biomapt address,
and do not get this token circulation, but sell it as your own one currency you know something like anyway that I wanted to
talk like we talked about governance a little bit already and there is an
interesting theme I'm thinking about since yesterday yeah which is what would be what would be the best first thing you
to test the system like vortex maybe even simpler but on a real-world
governmental local maybe governments or even bigger ones? An island or a small community in your
neighborhood that invests into benches in the parks by spending the taxpayers
money? Well of course it it needs a proper case study first, right? but a code-integrated system, a vortex-based one.
And it will definitely be hard to persuade somebody, anybody,
if there's not a proper case study done,
with a lot of data gathered and several proper research is written on it. Well I was thinking that
it can be much simpler than the cognitocracy, meritocracy and all the
parts of the vortex with different chambers. If we for example take the
local government level where you have money spent on rebuilding houses, roads and all this stuff because you
would pretty much have one chamber of the local people living in the area.
They would all be in one chamber on voting on how do we improve our neighborhood.
And these experiments were held already, but they lacked cool applications that's
why the participation rate was pretty low but these well experiments that
lasted for years are called let me recall it participatory budgeting yeah
that's how they're called when they contribute let's say one
Maximum 5% from what I've seen to the community voting
The turnover was really bad because it was sometimes on pepper
Which was just not that such thing. Yeah, but in Brazil they once they had the e-voting there as I first remember the first country to introduce e-voting they also held these experiments on local level had some term over maybe 2.5% just this but I think that with the tech that we have
we could really make an app for the local governments to do such things
easily well people is there are plenty of apps in different governments, local governments,
that allow to vote and stuff.
All sorts of things.
And they're usually ID based, right?
Yes.
And we know how cheap is it to create a new ID
compared to creating another face through our biometrics.
And stealing the vote of other person
is something more horrible than asking a friend
to scan his face through a rotten note.
It will be prosecuted.
I think they do need our attack in some sense.
It's more about only the inherited properties of the blockchain itself.
Yeah.
You can't change the ledger, right?
It's transparent.
It's transparent.
Everybody is its own validator.
Because everyone who runs consensus locally stores all the data locally.
Or they trust humanoid blockchain to do so.
Two options if they don't want to launch their human-owned chain. Well, if they want to be in a local governmental voting, based on our sense,
they have to be validators of their own chain.
That would be ideal, yeah, I agree.
So, based on our principles, they will not get voting power unless they
did. Imagine a municipality running on human nodes, 5,000 citizens,
each having like a mini node attached to his environment verification. I can imagine that.
And you're just getting a budget from your
government in taxpayers money as what
it should reinvest into you as a society
and then you kind of vote for what you
want to see happen in your
locality or wherever you are.
I would argue here, because they might need to save the data both to human nodes and their own chain,
because they all live in one place, and they can all be influenced, let's say, to collude easier
easier than the same number of human nodes spread across the world.
than the same number of human nodes spread across the world.
Well, if it's the collusion the size of the network itself,
then they have problems.
It's true.
But if it's not,
then they have to be verifiers of their own security and ideally they have to be
like those who basically try to maintain the system trustworthy how easily would
like 50,000 people colluded to hack the ledger.
And if 66% is the threshold, is this really a collusion?
That's democracy.
Is this consensus over the majority?
True, true.
So it's quite two-sided.
You know what I also was thinking about?
So right now we covered really the government-government level,
where you have to interact with the government,
but there could be local systems in local communities that act more like humanoid, which is a parallel system, right, with its own governance, with its own treasury.
So why couldn't like some, let's say rich people, yeah, donate money, which will be deducted from their tax, you know, so they will not lose anything,
donate money to a non-profit organization, which distributes money to the local proposals
and helps execute them. And so this is a parallel system from the current government
that does good for the local community without even taking the government money. I mean, sounds like heaven, of course.
Yes, you have to find these rich people who want to fund local communities and
realize not their own ideas, but the ideas of the people. So, yeah, and usually
government are the ones who do that. at least try to, not always.
There are always plenty of rich people who are investing into Korean.
Yeah, well then it can be doable.
Churches, roads and stuff.
Wouldn't it be too costly for all of them to set up notes to run such a voting?
If there are many of them, it would be really costly.
If they are rich? No, no, no, I mean you mean for people.
Yeah, for people.
Crown is the one click on human own.
Yeah, one click on human own.
But if they have to pay, what, 10 bucks and do not get it covered by, they have to get
it covered by their own system.
So this money has to come from somewhere. So they're simply spending 10 bucks to run nodes, all of them,
that could be a million dollars easily, a month.
It's like a ticket to be a part of this community.
Oh, so you have to pay to vote, the turnover would be so low, you know, it's already low.
People don't really care about even their own local infrastructure. Bem, desde os experimentos que eu disse antes.
Eles não se importam porque sabem que não têm uma palavra nisso.
Eles têm uma palavra nisso.
O que influencia realmente.
Bem, é isso como...
Bem, eles estavam melhorando as favelas no Brasil,
eles estavam melhorando o sistema... Bem, o ar ficou mais limpo, a eletricidade... They were improving the favelas in Brazil, they were improving the system of...
Well, the water became cleaner, you know, electricity.
There were real results.
I can vote for stuff, but nobody is ever telling me how much you wear to.
In terms of money.
In terms of money.
I can't worry stuff, but I just...
Like some local municipality apps or...
Yeah, it's free for you to vote.
I can vote like what color of my fire hydrant I want on my lawn you know red something yeah we're not really
what I plan in the how much we're going to I'm going to spend $60,000 on the
vanity fest this holiday yes no something like this. No, usually they use money for things that
really people need, like in the poor areas.
Yes, but also they fund local things all the time.
Concerts, yes, conferences,
festivals, all the stuff, all the time. That should be voted
upon because sometimes these conferences cost a lot of money and it's not reasonable.
Okay people we have four minutes left. Do you have any questions that you want
to hear us answer? If there are please write them in chat right here and we're going to try and answer them. All right, if there are no questions, gentlemen, I know you addressed them in our Discord,
and we'll meet you there.
Oh, yeah.
About the fees, the rules might change every week,
so stay tuned and watch the announcements.
Bye-bye.
Goodbye, everybody.
