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ICHI x ZERO - Smart Liquidity Provision on Polygon ZkEVM
Recorded: Oct. 11, 2023 Duration: 0:52:28Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'll have to take it up with Elon and figure out what happened there.
Could you?
Because you're zero.
Maybe we need to pay for that nice blue check mark.
Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe.
Yeah.
Do they take zero?
I mean, have your homeboy take that up with Elon as well.
You know, I'll pull that into the request form.
Nice.
Nice.
Well, welcome, gents.
Welcome, people.
We're here today to talk about Ichi's launch on Xero.
So, we're real excited to be launching here in the next week or so.
And speaking today will be Brian, the founder of Ichi, and Kila from Sable Labs.
And we'll go through some intros, and we'll talk a little bit about the nature of the partnership.
We'll dive into Xero and talk some Ichi, and we'll have a little bit of fun here, and we'll
learn a little bit more about what we're doing here that's so innovative in the space.
So, Brian and Kila, if you'd like to just introduce yourselves briefly.
We've done some spaces together before, but for those who are new, it'd be great to just hear a little
bit about yourselves.
Brian, if you want to go ahead and start.
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah.
Like Jeffrey said, my name's Brian.
I co-founded Ichi a couple of years ago.
Initially, we were focused on a stable coin as a service protocol, but then found that every
project in the space needed liquidity, both for these stable coins and for their native
asset, and dove in deep to Uniswap V3 liquidity provision after it was announced.
Yeah, there's been a lot of iterations in the approaches that we've tried, a lot of backtesting.
I imagine we'll talk a lot about that on the call today, but we launched recently with
Retro over on Polygon POS and are super excited about Polygon ZKEVM.
This day's been circled on the calendar for months.
Beautiful.
And hey, guys, I'm Kila.
Brian is my DeFi dad.
He teaches me all things liquidity and whatnot.
Yeah, I've been in the space for a while.
I think I've seen most of you guys on AMAs I've done in the past, so I'll spare you from
giving you my origin story.
Yeah, very excited to launch ZKEVM, launch Zero on ZKEVM.
Here's a little bit of alpha that we can get into later on in the episode or in the AMA,
that we just heard from Polygon that there's some delays in Chainlink launching on ZKEVM.
So just, we're waiting for more updates on that.
But if there is a delay, a lot of our partners need Chainlink to launch on ZKEVM.
And so what we may do is we may push our launch until that is ready.
October 2019, but just pending the news from Polygon team, we'll let you guys know.
And I know that's also making news for you, Brian, as well, because we just heard recently.
Yeah, yeah, just spring it on me in front of everybody.
Sorry, Dad.
Right in the open, love it.
So I'd love to kind of just start high level, you know, how we got here, how we started partnering
together, you know, that is, you know, Ichi and Retro and the Stable Labs team.
So Brian, Kilo, whoever wants to kind of chime in, I would love to just kind of, you know,
just a brief history on the partnership and just the objectives that we have partnering together.
Sure.
Sure.
I think there's two sides to that story.
I'm happy for Brian to go first if you want.
Yeah, I mean, we were doing quite well with Uniswap V3 liquidity provision, and we heard about
this new AMM launching, Retro.
And at the time, I wasn't very familiar with the V33 model, but once I started looking at
Retro and their plans and looking at DINA, I realized that it could be super compatible with
our novel single token deposit strategy in a number of ways.
And so we just started talking about it, and it just made a lot of sense to support them
in that launch.
Yeah, I'll give the story from my point of view.
So we were launching a fork, a friendly fork of DINA, very friendly with the DINA group,
and we were going to be launching it on Polygon POS.
And so DINA has a setup to where they're using Algebra and Gamma as their concentrated
liquidity engine as well as the ALM.
And so when we were hopping on POS, we talked to both of those parties, and they said, hey,
we've got exclusives with QuickSwap on POS, so we won't be able to do anything with you
guys here.
And so our team was like, all right, well, fuck, we're going to have to go and look for
a different stack.
And so, which, and long story short, it was fucking best decision ever.
And so happy that, you know, they had those exclusives.
And so we went for looking at different concentrated liquidity engine.
UniV3 just made the most sense because it's the most widely used.
It's a lot of partners integrated already.
It's trusted and all that kind of stuff.
So that made sense.
So cool.
We figured out the concentrated liquidity piece.
Now it came up to the ALMs because concentrated liquidity is a fucking headache if you want
to manage it yourself.
And many people, many people don't want to have to deal with that headache.
They're used to farms like on UniV2, where you just deposit your, you deposit your assets,
you let it sit.
You don't have to worry about ranges.
You don't have to worry about ticks.
You don't have to worry about a price or anything along those lines.
So you don't also have to worry about as heavy IL.
So we're like, all right, cool.
We want to have, we want to have an ALM.
And then as we started talking, we started talking to different ALMs.
And yeah, the thing was, is the team at Ichi, at first we just thought they were like, they
were crazy.
Like, what are you talking about?
Just single-sided, single-sided deposits?
Like, how does that even work?
And then also, you know, continuing to talk to them and everything like that.
We were learning a lot in the process.
And also, we understood that they knew what they were talking about.
And yeah, just from then, we wanted to make sure that Ichi was a big part of what we were
doing at Retro, which also you can see, you can see the, like, the trust that we had in Ichi
and everything like that by having all of our Retro pools just be, like, Ichi pools rather
than adding any other ALM.
Yeah, thanks for those kind words and that introduction, Keela.
The, you know, the last thing that you mentioned there was Ichi being the liquidity manager
supporting the Retro token.
Brian, if you could kind of, for our audience, describe a little bit about what these single
deposits mean as they pertain to deposits paired with the Retro token, to just shed some
light.
Yeah, well, by the way, thank you, Keela.
That's just really kind words, man.
I mean, dad and Oliver for doing all this.
Love you, dad.
I actually put assets on this decentralized contract, have prices change in the real world, and not
constantly lose to all these arbitrage agents that have better information on pricing.
Anytime they see that you have something available for less than what it's worth, they're going
to swap in and take it.
So, we went ahead and assumed that every trade's going to be like that.
Every trade's going to be toxic.
Every single one of them is going to try to get what you have for less than what it's worth,
and that's the problem to combat.
Now, the first thing we had to know to actually make headway on that problem is we had to know
what people deposited.
So, I like to say it's like you have one ALM with blinders on.
They don't know whether you put token A or token B in.
And it could be either they give you back the same receipt, the same LP token, no matter
what you add.
In our case, we just simplified the process by blocking one of the assets.
You can only add this one, and then, therefore, we know what you put in.
And so, then the next step is to not oversell it and to manage risk.
And we're the only ones I'm aware of that are actually playing that game because we're
the only ones who know what was deposited.
So, what happened next is with just all these novel use cases, now that you know what people
deposited, you can decide whether to incentivize token A or token B or both.
You have a lot of flexibility.
And in the case of the V33 model, the whole grid and theory behind it is that the highest
use for the governance token is to be staked in governance, to be used in voting, and to
collect a portion of the fees with that vote.
And so, the logical inconsistency was that people were being paid, you know, rewards to
deposit it to liquidity.
And so, when we set up those retro pools, you know, you really can't earn by depositing
the retro side.
You earn by depositing USDC, Bitcoin, ETH, trading against retro.
And our approach of knowing what people deposited, knowing that they put in USDC, Bitcoin, or ETH
and not retro is what enabled that more efficient reward structure.
So, that's just one of the use cases that's played out because we built the flexibility into
the system really just because we were tired of losing money.
So, you touched on an interesting point and, you know, a lot of the questions that we've
received in the past is, what are you doing with the single token deposit?
Is this being zapped upon deposit?
Is this staking?
What is it?
Can you clarify what happens when you put up, let's say, an ETH paired up against the retro
token?
Yeah.
So, when you actually deposit, the system does nothing other than receive your money and give
you back an LP token.
In fact, the pending deposit will sit in the contract until the next rebalance, which, if
it's a large deposit, will probably be in the next five minutes.
But the reason we did that was for gas efficiency.
We didn't want depositors to pay for a bunch of rebalancing and all these things.
Now, that doesn't matter as much on Polygon, but it was originally designed for Ethereum where
rebalances could be $60.
So, you imagine if you had to pay $60 to deposit.
So, it really just sits there.
So, you get back a receipt.
The assets you deposit are sitting there until the next rebalance, which, again, could be
in about five minutes.
And then, at the time of rebalance, it's going to place both assets it has on chain.
Now, it's using the proportion deposit token, the percent deposit token, to decide how much
deposit tokens to put close to the price and how much quote tokens or other tokens to put
close to the price.
And that can vary by type of pool, by the volatility of the pool, or even type of asset.
So, we have special strategies for things like liquid staking tokens that behave differently
than the normal ones.
But just in general, it knows what you deposited and it's trying to get more of it back to you.
So, it tries to avoid overselling it.
But yet, it must sell some or it won't make any trading fees.
So, it just balances those concerns.
Brian, can you maybe go into, I mean, because this was, I think, something really cool that
we saw with Ichi over maybe some other ALMs and everything like that.
But the use case we had with Live Retro.
Yeah.
So, with Live Retro, you have a very interesting asset because at some maturity date, you would
expect it to be a one-to-one peg.
You know, you can turn a Retro into a Live Retro or a Live Retro back.
And so, you want highly concentrated liquidity.
And the first thing that was tried is basically a constant product curve.
It's like a stable coin curve.
And that price just instantly jumped out of bounds if people had deposited a Retro against
Live Retro.
Now, they bought that Live Retro at one Retro and it's only worth 0.7 Retro.
And then everybody was like, well, that was terrible.
I lost all my money.
I'm not going to participate anymore.
The single token strategy, the other thing working against participation in a pool like
that is you can earn, let's say right now, 300% APR on Live Retro.
So, it isn't easy to earn that much in trading fees in any pool.
And so, people don't want to deposit the Live Retro.
If they have it, they want to go and stake it in the system and just earn.
And so, what we did is we set up a pool where you only deposited Retro.
And the Retro trades against the Live Retro.
And if somebody wants to sell their Live Retro, then, you know, that's where it's going to end up.
So, that initially stabilized the price at maybe 0.8 Retro per Live Retro.
So, not at that peg.
But as the system began earning and began buying Live Retro in the market,
it restored the peg over the subsequent week or two.
And right now, it's functioning quite well.
The people who have Live Retro, if they want to sell and move on,
there's liquidity to do so, which actually makes Live Retro valuable,
which actually makes it stay near the peg.
So, just a good case study of how being able to more efficiently spend incentives
on exactly the type of liquidity you want can help in kind of unexpected ways.
And, Kayla, can we expect to see the same thing on Xero?
And can you share a little bit more information on that?
Yeah.
Is the question, like, should we expect to see which piece on Xero?
I think Live Xero.
Are we going to have some Live Xero?
Yeah, yeah.
We'll have some Live Xero on Xero.
And also, the way that you incentivize pairs and everything along those lines
will also be very similar to Retro.
So, if you're familiar with Retro, you're going to be very familiar with Xero.
Yeah, so, shifting the focus over to Xero and the Polygon ZKVM system, Kayla,
what are you most excited about this new ecosystem, this relatively new chain,
and its plans to support Xero?
Yeah, I think it depends on how you look at the chain, right?
So, for a lot of people, they'll look at it as a new chain.
And for a lot of people, they'll be going to look at it and say, you know, like,
oh, this looks like a glorified testnet, because Polygon, they had launched ZKVM
probably about a year ago.
But again, I think what people don't realize is they launched it in beta.
It was not supposed to be used to its fullest.
It was not meant to scale.
And so, when people look at ZKVM and see, like, the TVL, and the TVL hasn't grown a lot
over the last few months, they're like, oh, well, is it just like a dead chain?
There's no activity, no TVL growth.
But what people don't understand is, again, that was by design from Polygon.
Polygon didn't want to have an influx of users and an influx of TVL and all of that,
because they knew it wasn't ready for scale.
They have recently done some upgrades to ZKVM that now make it ready to scale and ready
to have this influx of new users and new protocols coming in and building.
And so, I think right now is the time to really look at ZKVM as, one, it's an L2 with great technology.
Two, it's got a really fantastic team behind it.
It's a team that has already displayed their ability to, like, bootstrap a chain,
really also have fantastic BD.
Like, the Polygon team, BD is second to none.
And also, they've put a lot of time, energy, and money behind ZKVM.
And I know for a fact that they'll be putting some more money behind making sure ZKVM is a success.
So, yeah, that's what makes me excited about ZKVM.
Also, being relatively early on a chain can give you a lot of benefits from a protocol standpoint
as well as just from a user standpoint.
Yeah, that's a great segue for my next question, or rather point that I want to just go over.
We're seeing here that there is a grant program that you guys sort of got approval from the Polygon team on
and have noticed the different tiers of liquidity grants, that is, for partner protocols.
Can you share a little bit more information on that and the nature of the relationship with the Polygon team?
Yeah, happy to.
The nature of the relationship with the Polygon team is we have a really fantastic relationship with them.
Over the last few months, we've been really talking with them every day,
designing different plans on how to really help kickstart ZKVM.
Because the thing is, they saw as well as we saw what a liquidity layer like Velodrome was able to do for a chain.
It was really able to spark a bunch of new activity, a bunch of protocols building.
Because liquidity is the most important first piece of any chain.
Without liquidity, you don't really have the ability to attract other builders to come and build on top of the chain.
So we have a tiered system within the grant.
First part of the grant, the tier one, is for blue chip assets and blue chip pairs.
Those are going to be your WF, USDC, your WF, Matic, Matic USDC, WVTC, and WF, and also some stable pairs.
The second tier of the grant program is the bribe match program for partners.
And so partners would come to us, they would commit to some bribe value, and then we'll take those bribe commitments over to Polygon.
And Polygon will look to match those bribes or exceed the bribes.
Polygon will come up with a number that they're willing to match and send that Matic over to the Zero team, and we'll place those on behalf of the partner to their pools.
Yeah, thanks for that.
And then just to add on to that, Ichi is participating in that bribe match program, and so you can expect to see some juicy APRs there for those Ichi pools that we'll be having live there on Zero.
So, Brian, we've talked a bit about YieldIQ and the strategy, and can you dive in a little bit into just how risk management is employed by YieldIQ?
Like, what factors is YieldIQ looking at?
And since it's the single-token deposit, it's maybe a little foreign of a concept for some people.
So if you can share, you know, how liquidity providers' deposits are protected in that sense, if you could describe and illuminate that process a bit more.
Yeah, it's a little too much to go into in such a short call, like any level of depth.
But let's say there's 20-plus factors that are considered when deciding when to rebalance and where to put the new positions.
Now, all of these factors are stored on-chain, and all the logic used is also on-chain.
And the only off-chain component is an automation system like Chainlink Keepers to trigger it.
And since there is no logic on when to trigger it off-chain, it basically tries every single block.
So every single block, it's like pushing the button.
And if in that block, the on-chain conditions mean it's time to rebalance, then it will rebalance.
So these factors can kind of be split into a few groups.
One is some variables to determine whether or not it's a risky time to rebalance.
So this has a lot to do with how much the price has changed this block over the last five minutes, over the last hour, and whether or not there's any perceived manipulation.
Are you trusting that, you know, at least for any attack on the pool would have to be sustained for a long period of time at enormous expense in order to gain a profit?
And so that's one type of – it's called defensive variables.
There are other variables that pay attention to the percent of tokens.
So, you know, if you deposited 100% deposit asset, are you now at 90%?
Are you at 80%? 70%?
And, again, it's going to try to avoid overselling the asset that the depositor has deemed the one they want.
Right?
Like that.
I'm depositing that to get more of it.
So don't sell them all.
And if you do sell them, try to get them back.
Right?
So it's paying close attention to that.
Now, from there, there are some performance parameters.
So for liquid staking pools, as an example, an assumption you can make is that the liquid staking asset goes up in value against the other asset.
But we use parameters like that to more efficiently, you know, gain rewards.
You know, if we know that the price is supposed to rise, we're not going to adjust the liquidity positions down if the price temporarily drops, because we can anticipate that it's probably going to come back in the near future.
And so we learn these things through developing a very detailed back tester, as well as practical experience.
And that strategy, maybe there's three, four, or five different flavors that may be deployed, depending on the characteristics of that specific pool.
Thanks for that thorough explanation, Brian.
So for those who have just joined recently or tuned in a little late, we're here with Kila, who represents the Xero team.
Ichi Yield IQ Strategy will be live as soon as their platform is live.
And then to just kind of recap a little bit about what we've talked about.
You know, we've mentioned how Ichi is a single token deposit strategy that is paired up against Retro.
In Retro's case, it will be paired up against Xero when it's live on Xero.
And ultimately, this Yield IQ Strategy by Ichi is very supportive of the E33 AMMs in the nature that you're able to pair up your liquidity against the governance token,
and receive governance tokens as rewards, and ultimately lock those in for more voting power.
And so that's completely...
One thing that I would want to say is that instead of just saying it's single token, it's actually just flexible.
So if you want to deposit 50% token A and 50% token B, you can just make two distinct equal deposits, one for each token.
But you can also do 85-15, 75-25, 100-0, whatever ratio you deem fit, which is more similar to how you deal with all other financial applications.
This idea that you have to swap to the current mix in the vault, or to exactly 50-50, was an artificial concept introduced because of the simplicity of early AMMs.
It's not how anybody really thinks about things.
Yeah, true.
One thing I will point out as well is that at the beginning when we first launched, there was a lot of confusion on how to deposit into the ETbox because our UI just was maybe...
Again, people were not used to that.
And so our UI might have been a little confusing.
So if you look on Retro's website now, there's a specific tab that is dedicated towards single-deposit vaults.
And hopefully that clears up a lot of confusion or questions into how you can deposit into some of these Ichi vaults.
Yeah, definitely give us any feedback on how to further improve it.
But yeah, the idea is to make it as simple as staking.
Like, you don't have to go and check the current mix in the vault and then swap to that ratio and then, oh no, the price moved before I got back.
I got to do it again, right?
Like, it just makes it easy.
And then the other thing is, while it can't guarantee long exposure to the deposit asset, it can kind of statistically be the case, right?
So we've shown that statistically over time, the average Ichi vault maintains long exposure while earning you more of what you put in.
And so that's just a simpler financial thing to think about, you know, than this constantly changing ratio of tokens and how your short volatility and how to hedge any of that volatility.
It just gets really complicated with the IS forced ratio deposit.
So I imagine we have some questions from people in attendance here today since we've talked about some interesting concepts here.
So I'd like to open up the floor to a Q&A portion here.
And then for those of you who are also partaking in the Zeely quests, just make sure you complete as many of those as possible so you can get higher up on the leaderboard.
And two top XP earners will be picked later today.
But with that, let's open up the floor to some questions.
Let's see, we have one here.
Hey, Odin.
Hey, Odin, are you there?
What's up, Odin?
You're on mute.
Hey, guys, sorry.
Could you hear me?
I had some connection problems.
You're good, man.
We can hear you now.
Good, good.
So I was listening to the presentation from the beginning.
And I was wondering, could you tell more about this bribe mechanism that you mentioned a little bit?
Could you elaborate it?
Could you elaborate it?
It seems very interesting.
I would appreciate it.
Yeah, sure.
Which bribe mechanism are you specifically referring to?
I saw that bribe match mechanism.
How does it actually work that you wrote in that bribe match mechanism in that sense?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure.
So I'll give you a little example.
Say Daddy Brian over here, he wants to bribe for some ichi pools on zero.
So we say, sure.
How much are you looking to bribe?
Maybe start with what a bribe is.
Like, I know that everybody's probably familiar with that, but, you know, I certainly wasn't two, three months ago.
So, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what is a bribe?
A bribe is an incentive that protocols or anyone can really place on a pool to try and attract votes to come and vote for those pools.
So those pools get more emissions head in their way.
So, for example, if ichi wanted to attract more votes to some ichi pools, they could bribe voters to vote for those pools.
And then the emissions would then be directed or some of the emissions would be directed towards the ichi pools.
Oftentimes, bribing is going to be more efficient than directly incentivizing your LPs.
So, for example, if ichi was to spend $1,000 on bribing a pool, they could get, you know, say $2,000, $3,000 worth of incentives.
Versus if they're just giving out $1,000 worth of incentives themselves, you're just giving out $1,000 worth of incentives.
So that's what bribing is.
I don't know if I missed anything there, Brian, if you...
Yeah, no, that was perfect.
Yeah.
And so then when you have a new chain like Polygon, DKEVM, it might be expensive to bribe as you've got to not only incentivize the capital to use your pool, but possibly also bridge from Polygon POS.
And I think that's where the matching program steps in.
Want to go through that?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So the matching program, it's partners that come to us, say, hey, we want to bribe whatever number they have, like say $3,000.
We take that $3,000 number.
We put it on a Google sheet.
We hand that Google sheet over to Polygon.
Polygon says, yep, looks good to me.
We like this project.
We want to match that $3,000 in bribes with $3,000 worth of Matic.
And there we go.
We have a bribe match program sponsored by your fabulous team at Polygon.
That's very dope.
And additionally, I saw such a sentence in a cash partner bribe.
It says that about this, any unused cash from the bribe match fund, it will be allocated to blue chip pool.
Tribes every epoch.
I mean, how transparent will this be?
Can the users just follow it by, so how can we follow that?
And how transparent is it going to be for us?
If you could tell me.
I also appreciate it.
Yeah, so with cash pools themselves, they have a little bit of auto-bribing going on with the amount of cash that's in the LP.
So if you have a cash USDC LP, the amount of rebase that the cash in that pool would have been getting actually goes towards auto-bribing that pool.
So that's step one.
So when it comes to the blue chip bribes on Xero, one is we have part of the Polygon grant.
So we have a good amount of MATIC that's just going to go towards blue chip liquidity in terms of bribes.
But then on top of that, yeah, you have a lot of fees because the blue chip pools, they generate a bunch of fees, which is fantastic.
You'll get fees on those pools as well.
But, yeah, with like the OToken execution, we use that money to bribe specific pools.
Oftentimes they're going to be blue chip pools or also retro pools.
We'll post something today in the Discord kind of outlying a little bit of a strategy that we'll have moving forward.
So you guys can anticipate things a little bit clearer.
Yeah, I think it took the first month or two to kind of understand the various levers because there's been so much innovation here.
But we learned a lot and I'm looking forward to getting everybody's feedback on that proposal later.
I think that it can make the whole process moving forward much more proactive instead of reactive and easy to understand by all.
Correct.
Awesome.
Thanks, Eddie, for your question.
We'll take another speaker here.
Is there another speaker?
Another question?
Yep.
Coming up to stage here.
Young Savior One.
You have a question for us?
You're on mute.
Mueller.
Hey, buddy, you're on mute.
Okay, we'll come back to you.
Earlier I heard a baby behind Keela begging for an airdrop.
All right, well, we have Tolga here.
Tolga, you're live and you're on mute.
Hey, guys.
Hey, Keela.
I am following you.
I know.
I know.
You, Odin, and a couple other people.
Actually, you know, I spent some time reading out.
By the way, I remember the retro project from Discord channel, let's say, Discord channel.
I remember the whole process.
If I'm not wrong, there were some NFTs.
If I'm not wrong, there were some NFTs in the retro port, if there is not any confusing, etc.
And actually, you know, about the Launchpad protocol incentives, you guys introduced something very new to the Polygon ZK EVM, or let's say Polygon ecosystem.
Because there are some subjects in this tier, you know, waiting process, active collaboration, and, you know, you have some limits, $500 per protocol.
I didn't get why there is a protocol limit, or will it be special to, will there be not any limits for some special Launchpads?
In other words, let me ask.
Could you elaborate the manner, will it be so easy to apply or benefit this mechanism, actually?
How will other projects or Launchpads, let's say, benefit?
Yeah, okay.
So, from my understanding of the question is, just kind of diving deeper into the Launchpad, how it's going to benefit new protocols and kind of the process of adding new protocols onto the Launchpad?
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, the limits, $500 limits, you know, is it so, you know, rigid limits, you know, never changing?
No, and again, no, this is kind of just to help, you know, kick things off.
But then also the thing is, is the due diligence process is going to go on between our team as well as Polygon's team.
So, Polygon's team is going to be looking at the project very thoroughly anyways.
And so, what the plan is, is, okay, we have just like $500 as we can throw towards bribes.
But Polygon itself will be also very proactive in helping with more grant money, more bribe money and stuff along those lines to help bootstrap liquidity.
Also, we're working with Ichi and their team on helping more and more teams get more liquidity for their token using some of the Ichi-style single deposit vaults.
I mean, Brian can kind of dive into that.
But, yeah, no, $500 is just to help get things kind of kick-started.
And then we can build up liquidity from there using, you know, the Polygon team grants as well as other mechanisms.
Are you with the protocol or just curious?
I always ask curious questions.
Tolga, are you with the protocol?
Oh, sorry to trust me.
No, no, no, not actually.
But, you know, I am interested in launch bets or their processes actually.
You know, that's why I am not in any blockchain project.
I hope one day.
Okay.
Good to meet you.
By the way, yes, I even remember some spaces events that Polygon actively supports.
And you emphasize for builder program and maybe collectively use a money, let's say, to invest or allocate.
Very nice manners actually.
Thank you very much, Kili.
Yeah, so for those of you who are projects, the way we can kind of think about that is, you know, previously, if you wanted liquidity, you would need to come up with USDCE to pair with your token.
And you're kind of on your own to do it.
You know, nobody's going to put that cost for you.
So, sometimes you could spend a lot of your tokens to get it.
The single token side allows you to manage two programs kind of distinctly.
One, you can deposit just your project token and have the other side of the pair get absorbed from the market and trading.
Or two, you can incentivize just the asset side to purchase your token, kind of like how Retro is doing it.
And even in this case, get matches when you do that.
And so, we just hope that it enables every project and it's in the space to have deeper on-chain liquidity because I think we all know that we didn't get into crypto to have our money trapped in Binance or Coinbase and these other centralized exchanges that doesn't make any sense.
So, we're really just setting out to provide better and better options for projects to get started.
Thanks, Tolga, for your questions.
We're going to move on now to Young Savior again, adding you and you're live.
Hey, Young Savior, can you hear us?
Hey, Young Savior.
You scared them all off.
I guess I'm intimidating today.
Yeah.
Looks like he's reconnecting here.
Hello.
Good evening.
What are you doing?
I just want to ask that.
Would there be any staking protocol in your system when you get launched?
Any staking system in the protocol?
Yes, yes.
As in like staking NLP?
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, no, so one of the beautiful things about the way that we have designed this is that you actually don't need to stake your LP to get any of the incentives.
And so, one, that provides a better user experience for people because when you deposit, you don't need to then go and also stake.
Two, it also opens up a lot of doors towards what you are able to do then with that LP token later on, as in like you could go and possibly use it as collateral for a stable coin, which, you know, we're in the talks with a couple CDPs about using zero and retro LPs as collateral.
And then also a nice thing is that not having to stake it means that you're using one less contract, smart contract, which, again, is limiting your exposure to any kind of contract risk.
And with zero and retro, you're basically just depositing into a unit V3 contract when creating your position.
And then after that, you're, like, you're earning incentives.
So, and the last question before I go is, like, what, because seeing your token name called zero, what, what innovates you to bring this name?
Because everyone knows that zero is zero, so how can I say something about this one?
Yeah, I mean, I think it was a couple of different things, right?
So, ZKEVM, the Z for ZKEVM is, stands for zero, right?
And so, there's that play in it.
Also, like, we've been talking to Polygon for a long time as, like, this, we want this to be, like, kind of ground zero and, like, the first place for liquidity to come.
On ZKEVM and, like, the piece that sparks the fire for ZKEVM.
And so, you know, we felt like starting, you always start from zero, right?
And so, we felt like that was a nice little play on the name as well.
So, that's awesome.
I love that.
Thanks for sharing, Kila.
Well, that's about all the time that we have, unless we have any last second questions here.
Well, you could also think of, like, zeroing in your sites.
So, sometimes when you've got it set to zero, you're directly on target.
Huh.
Yeah, see?
There we go.
There we go.
DeFi Daddy.
DeFi Daddy.
DeFi Daddy, Brian.
Yeah, I think, Brian, we might need to change your screen name to DeFi Daddy.
I think that just may be more fitting.
All right, guys.
Well, thank you so much for coming today and participating.
Reminder to just continue to fill out those quests on Zeely and stay tuned for a $100 VE0 giveaway to two lucky winners.
Kila, thanks so much for your time.
We look forward to launching on Zero when we're ready, and we'll stay tuned for more announcements on Twitter.
Or X, rather.
Thanks, guys.
Have a nice day.
My pleasure, guys.
Okay.
All right, bye.
Bye.
